00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Ken. You all right, welcome to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X. Thanks for tuning in, appreciate you being here today. In the show, We've got Lake Pickle talking Southern turkey hunting. And Lake is a Mississippi native. He's a member of the Premost Video team. You might have seen them on their TV show, on their web series, on their YouTube videos. He's also the host of their Speak the Language podcast over their Premost too. He's a serious turkey hunter and he's mentored under some of the very best turkey hunters in the country, folks such as the one and only Will Premost. So he's got a tremendous amount of experience to share and today we're gonna go rapid fire with him to discuss, you know, things like what's unique out turkey hunting in the South, how to find and call and decoy highly pressured turkeys, something that's applicable in many parts of the country. We talked through tips for getting quiet birds to gobble, what to do if you spook a gobbler, how to break, a hung up bird, and a whole lot more. Uh. It was a fun talk we go, I don't know, thirty forty minutes, just jam packed with turkey tips and knowledge. So if you are excited to get out turkey hunting, you gotta listen to this one a step because it will help, no doubt about it. So that's the plan. Before we get into it, though, I just want to give you one more heads up. If you've been enjoying these bonus turkey hunting episodes, I'd like to encourage you to head over to our website that's the meat Eater dot com and check out the dozens of new turkey hunting articles that we've been publishing over there. I've been working hard writing new things. Spencer's been writing new things, Tony Peterson has been writing new articles. All sorts of people on the team and other folks out there are sharing their turkey hunting insights with really great articles. We're gonna see topics such as, oh gosh um, how to how to hunt roosted towns, how to stock turkeys, how to uh deal with turkeys that they aren't talking, how to make your decoys more realistic, a whole slet of different things, dozens and dozens of new articles. If you want to learn more after listening to this, that's how to do it, heading over to the meat eater dot com. There's also a lot of great turkey recipes because I'm counting on all of you filling those turkey tags, so you're gonna need to eat them too. We can help you on that front as well. So that's all from me without further ado, let's get to some turkey talk with Lake Pickle. Alright with me on the line now is Lake Pickle Lake, Thanks for doing this. How are you, man? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me on its owner. Hey, I uh, I'm stoked that we can chat turkeys right now because a lot of people are stuck inside or stuck at home and not able to go do some fun things. But but turkey hunting is one of those options that most of us have to go out and enjoy ourselves right now. So this is a this is a great thing to be talking about. Absolutely, it's it's one of my favorite things to talk about, regardless of the time of year, what's going on. But yeah, with everything going on right now and the last folks being stuck inside. It's it's people are more appreciative of turkey hunting than normal, I feel like, which is the way it should be. Oh yeah, I was just driving home from the grocery store a little bit ago, and in my head I was kind of complaining to myself that I I can't go hunt anywhere else. I'm kind of gotta stay here in Michigan and we only get one tag, so I basically, you know, could end my turkey season in one day. Now sitting there thinking how disappointing that is. And usually in a lot of other years, I would go and kind of guide for a bunch of friends, take them out, call for um, you know, just do that with as many buddies as you can to kind of lengthen your season. But now maybe we shouldn't be doing that. I don't know. So it's such a strange time, man, Yeah, it is. It is. So I started thinking, I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna set a goal of getting quote unquote getting five turkeys for myself in Michigan this year. And when I say getting, I'm not actually gonna illegally shoot more birds than I'm allowed. I'm going to see if I can get five gobblers within forty yards and and you know, take a picture or something, and that'll be like that fun thing is try to call one into range and no, I could have got it. And so I'm gonna hunt without needing to pull the trigger. I'll get my one bird, and then I'm just gonna keep on getting after just to enjoy it, you know. Yeah. And I mean, like I said, and then the circumstances that everyone's kind of set with right now, I get where you're coming from. There's you still gotta find some way to enjoy the spring as much as you can. I understand exactly. So I'm particularly excited to kind of pick your brain because you are doing a ton of turkey hunting down in the part of the country that I just don't get to enough. Um I if I'm right, correct me if I'm wrong here, But I think I've seen you've killed turkeys already this year in Alabama, Mississippi, in Florida. Is that right, correct? Yes, sir, that is correct? In And what are are you hunting many other states this year? Or is that the extent of it? It's kind of up in the air. We would like to but it's just you know, usually with what we do with with primos, we we chase spring all over you know. But um, we've already lost some trips because of the Corona thing, like we touched on earlier. Um, and that's honestly, I've hunted. I've got to hunt more in my home state of Mississippi this year than I have in years, just because we're usually traveling so much. We may get to make a few more trips later and later on in in May if some of this stuff changes, um, but as of right now, we're just kind of hunting around the house. It's the safe thing to do, you know. Yeah, how many tags do you guys get there? Three apiece, three bird limit? Yeah, at least you've got some some opportunities. So so we talked on Instagram, I think right at on Instagram a little bit about what makes Southern turkey hunting unique. And I think that's probably a good place to start with this conversation too. Can you expand on some of the things that you think make it different down there than maybe what I'm experiencing in Michigan and what folks out in Iowa or Nebraska maybe have got going on sure. I think one of the biggest thing that comes to my mind when you say what makes Southern turkey hunting unique is I feel like there's a bigger concentration of turkey hunters in the Southeast region than there are anywhere else. So you're dealing with so much more hunting pressure, and that has, you know, whether you whether you like it or not. I mean I kind of wish that it didn't sometimes, but you know, turkeys respond very much the hunting pressure. You know, they get called out a lot, they get walked under limbs and flushed off limbs a lot, they get walked into a lot when their goblin in person tries to get too close, and they get flood and so you're a lot of times, especially if you're hunting on public land, you're dealing with birds that have been scared either by hunters or by predators, because predation is also an issue we deal with a lot down here. Um. I just I feel like overall, you're you're dealing with turkeys that are a lot more wary, I guess, or or trying to be trying to stay on their toes a lot more just because they're so scared of everything. Uh, so that that's probably like the biggest difference. I would say, if I had to pick just one, I'd say there's several, but the biggest one is just dealing with hunting pressure. Yeah, So how do you account for that? Like, I know, one of the things you mentioned when we were talking earlier is is focusing on a time frame different than when most guys come out there. Maybe if you can expand on that and and then anything else you do differently to just deal with these real timid birds. Sure. Um. So the best example that I have of that is, Uh, I went to college. When I was in college, there was a there was a big public piece of public ground that you could get to from the town that I went to college at at at Mississippi State. You could drive there from from my apartment that I was living in to be there listening to turkeys and twenty minutes um and so. As you can imagine, every other student that turkey hunted also hunted that same piece of public ground. And so it was hammered with with pressure. And you know, you had a lot of times you have you better have five or six different spots that you could possibly go in and hunt that you had scouted, because there's a chance that if you try to, if you only have one, you'd go there and there'd be some of us, be someone there already. And uh, I learned over you know, like I'm not the quickest learner in the world. Is a lot of trial and error, but I learned that a lot of those guys, whether they just were doing it because they didn't know any better, or they had class, a lot of those guys would get there, you know, do the daybreak roost goblin thing, and they would hunt until eight thirty nine o'clock and then they'd call it quits. And you drive around that that same piece of public ground that looked like, you know, the talladegas raceway in the morning times, but you get there from ten am on, you know, it's oftentimes would be a ghost town. And so the first turkey that I ever killed out there, I got out there probably around ten thirty. I just went to a spot that I had scouted before the season, and I had hunted some of the mornings, and I knew that turkeys liked to be there. There were turkeys in that area. And I sat down and UH just was calling, you know, every five ten minutes, and I think I've probably been there about thirty forty minutes and one time I yelped and cut and a turkey answered me, and probably twenty minutes later that turkey was dead. I mean, it was just that quick. And I think those turkeys get honestly, I think they get imprinted or or whatever you want to call it, that they start to figure out that, hey, from before daylight telling nine, there's a lot of things. There's a lot of booger bears out here chasing me, you know, but until then they're gone. You know, I realized bugger bear is probably a funny term. Excuse my red neck you know neck terminology. But but I think that, you know, you would say, turkeys acting a lot more like you want turkeys to act. And when I say that, you know, goblin strutting the whole nine yards. But they were a lot more laid back and not just on pins and needles when you hunt in those time frames when there's not as many people there. Um. And that's that's the best example that I can give of that. That's interesting. Do you do you do anything differently once you're out there? Though, So when you did that calling sequence and brought that burden or other times when you're hunting pressure birds like that, do you call any differently knowing that these turkeys have been buggered by a bunch of other people. Do you decoy differently when you know they've seen a bunch of other deeks anything like that? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, that's a good question. Um, what you will learn or especially if you're out in public A lot. I don't know what it is, but there's so many guys they get I call it like a I don't know if you call it a rut or like a calling rud or they they sound like a broken CD. Sometimes they'll just throw the same five to eight yelp sequence over and over and over, you know, just y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, you know, and there's no there's no changes, there's no difference in inflection. Or maybe they they clucked twice and then yelp. But but whatever it is, they yelped that, it's the same thing, just over and over and over and Um, we've heard this a thousand times. I'm not the first person to say it. But if you listen to a hidd in Turkey, a real hid in Turkey. They don't do that. You know, they're they're very they have a lot of variation and what they do. And so I started, you know, at first, the first thing I did to try to change that up is I was like, all right, I'm gonna yelp only an odd number of times, Like instead of going four times, you know, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, one to three, four, I yelp three. You know, I was just trying to make myself do something different, um, And I think it made it. Honestly, I think it makes a difference. Just I think it adds more realism, uh to what you're doing. Uh. Decoy in if you're hunting somewhere like that place I hunted where I was going to school. Often times, if I'm hunting in timber, I won't even use a decoy. Um. And if I'm open with a lot of timber, and if I'm in open woods with a turkey can see a long way, I'll put a decoy out just because I wouldn't want them to get to a hundred eighty yards and say I don't see a turkey, I'm gonna turn around. This isn't right. But if I'm hunting in somewhere that's kind of thicker timber and maybe some younger stage timber. Uh. Often I won't use a decoy just because again, like on that public ground, everyone has decoy is thrown out, and I personally feel like they walk up sometimes they go I've seen that before, and they turn around and they leave. Yeah, it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. Do you talked about trying to add some variation to your calling, and that's such a good point. I realized I'm probably guilty of that a lot. I've kind of have that track in my mind, like, Okay, this is the sequence you do, this is how many times you do it. I like your idea just simply doing something as simple as changing the number. But I gotta believe with with all experience you have and then the guys that you're hanging out with at primost, there's gotta be some interesting unique ways of calling. Are there any other things you picked up over the years as far as ways to just add variation to your calling sequences or certain little runs or certain I don't know, if you got tricks in the back pocket that you pull out when things get tough, anything that comes. Yeah, absolutely, uh the first one that comes to my mind. And it's not like a this may not mean like the most black and white instructional this is a trick, but it's something I heard Wilberg say all the time, And the first time I heard him say it, I was like, I'm not sure what you're saying there. But over time and just white and hunting with him, I kind of figured it out. He always he always says, I'm painting a picture. You know, I'm painting. I'm painting a picture. He's trying to build a scenario for that turkey. You know, he's trying to make him you know, and and it you when you first time you hear, you're like, well, that's yes, that's you know, you're trying to make him think there's a hint over there, but you know it's it will takes that to another level of detail. You know, he's just not going there as a hen over there. He's taking it to there's a hen over here. And right now she's clucking in her and feeding around on the ground. And now she's assembly helping because she wants you to come up over here. Now she's cutting at you because she's excited. Um. As far as just calling variation, again, the best thing that I that I guess that you don't hear a lot of people do, and I think personally adds a ton of realism, is just adding clucks or cuts into your yelps. You know a lot of people will yelp and then they'll cut. They won't Yeah yeah, gott y'all. Yeah, And you hear real hens or at least down here. I hear hens do that a lot, you know, not just cutting crazy like you like you hear on the competition stage, but just yeah, yeah, yeah, got that, y'all. Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. Um adds a lot of realism, I feel like, and I hear I hear will do that a lot. I hear Brad do that a lot. Uh. Troy is probably one of the best I've heard of doing that on a mouth call and sounding super realistic. But yeah, those are some things. And like you said, from I've been pretty spoiled as far as the caliber of Turkey hunters I've been able to hang out with because I've I've been able to learn a whole whole lot as you can imagine. Yeah, you can't. I don't think you can find any better mentors than that. No, So so let's keep talking calling um. At the beginning of the day, one of the first things people are looking at is trying to they hopefully had a rooster bird, they get in there, they're set up. There's always this temptation too, to call it birds on the limb. What what's your take on how or if you call two birds when they're still roosted. I will do it um, depending on on the setup UM. And then quite frankly, like because I can give you a really good example of that, because like I was, I was telling you um or. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I was hunting this morning. I was filming Jordan, who who we worked together at Promos, and he actually shot a turkey this morning that we got on him on the limb. And what we did is basically, I mean we we were able to get get in fairly tight to that turkey while he was still roosted. We've probably got a hundred yards maybe anywhere from a hundred to a hundred twenty yards while he was still in the tree. And we were able to do that because at this point in our season the woods. You know, the spring foliage is pretty much all the way out there, so you've got tons of cover where it's like early season. You know, when we opened, like March fifteen, if you were trying to sneak up on a turkey that close to the limb, good chance you're gonna spots you. But now with all the foliage on the trees, we were able to get pretty tight. But um, what we do often times were set up like that. We will call to him. We'll do everyone knows the term a tree up, you know, just a real soft, hey I'm over here, kind of kind of a call, just to barely even audible. Sometimes just roll um. And that's usually it. I mean, we don't just keep hammering at him because uh, the only other call we will do is like a fly down cackle. Well, you know, get the wing and fly down and as it like a hen's do when they fly down. Uh. But then you don't, I personally know, will not just keep yelping at him. I mean, no one likes to hear a turkey gobble more than I do. But uh, and it's it's very tempted, but it's oh, it's it's I'm so guilty of it. I've done it when I was just started turkey on. There's no telling how many turkeys that I possibly could have killed. That I learned just because I was just sitting there. Let's making them gobble while they were still on the tree limb. But you know, like the for instance, this turkey, the one j Ordan ended up shooting with, that's literally all we did. He got tree up that and he got fly down, cackled, and that is it. And that turkey stayed on the limb, probably thirty to forty minutes later than you would expect the turkey too, just because that's that's how they work in nature, you know. They they hear the hen, they gobble. And he was waiting for that hen to come walking under his tree or walking close to it, and then he pitched out to it. That's that's how he was expecting his morning to go. Uh. But we were able to wait him out, and he pitched down, he gotl and he still took his sweet time getting to us. But I think continuing to call him, call at him on the limb like that makes that turkey just even more go. All right, I'm just you know you're over here, I'm supposed to gobble, You're gonna walk you the hen is gonna walk up under the tree. And that's that. Um. So yeah, as far as calling to him on the limb, I keep it at a minimum, just just the essentials. Now, what about this scenario. I was listening to an episode of your podcast a while back and you described the morning hunt you went out. I think it was in Mississippi and you were sneaking in on a spot where you thought there might be a bird roosted, and you'll let off an old hoot and the bird guy like forty or fifty yards away, like you're right underneath him. Oh man, are you bringing up this negativity? Sort started throw under the bus here? But what what do you do in that scenario when you realize, oh crap, I spooked a bird on the roost um, and and maybe you're in a limited spot. I know a lot of people, if they've got a bunch of landing on public maybe they'll just go somewhere else, obviously, but what if you've got you know, you're stuck on forty, you're stuck on eighty, and you know that you spooked that bird. Maybe he's the only one what do you do? How do you approach it for the rest of the day. So, um that that is an excellent question. Um So if if i'm if that's like, if it's a forty acre piece which I have hunted on before, Uh, that's used to be all I had access to on private land actually, But um, if if it's a small piece and I know of one goblin turkey and I just bumped him off the limb, I'm probably at least gonna at least leave him alone on that morning. I may come back that afternoon if I'm just wanting to hunt, but I'm not gonna keep chasing her. And I'm not gonna sit down right there and start yelping, because again, down here in the South, at least, they're getting hammered so much. I mean, I hate to even spook them at all, And which I did. I spooked that one really bad. But um we ended up like we just built like which and that that wasn't a four the acre piece. We ended up going to the other side of the property and fooled around there. But as far as those turkeys, they were like, we're leaving these alone. We've done more than more than enough damage. That I wanted to do today. So they're they're gone. So if I I spook them that day, I leave them be. And so they ended up being the right decision because they can't you know, they came right back. He was right back in there. Um. But just another like I have the best the best advice I can give, or based off of screw ups have made, you know what I mean. So uh, some of the worst like screw ups have done on turkey hunt, their turkey ust that I've blown have been based on like like that turkey in particular, I had no reason to believe that the turkey was roosted where I was headed to find it. I'd like i'd heard him gobbling there when I was scouting, but that wasn't on the limb. He was already on the ground, and I'd heard a turkey roost there in the past where I thought he was, and so I just went with, he's gonna be right there. And and Jordan's even said to me when we were walking in, he was like, there's a chance he's roosted on the edge of this cutover. I was like, no, man, no, he might be, but he's I bet he's on that ridge and he was not. So when you go making asumpthing like that and getting impulsive, that's when you make mistakes and you know, look really dumb like I did and blow a turkey off the limb. Uh. So, what are what are some of the other mistakes that you've either done yourself or seen from your buddies or folks you're hunting with that have helped you learn something, you know, that kind of illuminated some aha moment. Any others that stand out to you this year, past years that might be helpful. Yeah? Absolutely, um and I'm like I said, I can pull a lot from from this year. Um so. Uh. It was that yesterday afternoon we uh Jordan's myself. We I filmed Jimmy Jimmy Primo shoot one kind of place that we had permission to hunt on in the north part of the state, and that turkey. Um. We we knew there was turkeys in the area. We had not heard any goblin hardly at all. We've been hunting there for three days. Solid had had heard hardly any gobbles except for on the roost. But we knew they were there, and so the plan was we were just gonna set up on edges Field and uh, you can call every once in a while. And so we ended up striking a turkey. It's probably about three thirty in the afternoon. And this turkey was once he struck, he was he was as you know, as hot as you could want a turkey to be. I mean, you could have yelped to him probably a hundred times when he would have gobbled. But Jordan's and this is as far as calling, it's so easy. Who overcall in those situations? Um, Jordan's I think yep. Well, the first time we heard him, he was maybe three hundred yards away, and I think Jordan called a total of three times. He the first time he struck him, he yelped and cut the turkey gobbled. He waited a few minutes, he yelped again, turkey gobl He was closer, uh, and then he said, all right, I'm waiting and he literally he pulled out his phone. It was like four no, no, no, because it was four it was four or twenty one pm, and he said, if he hasn't gobbled again by four thirty, I'll call again. I think it was like four twenty seven. The turkey gobbles again on his own and he's a hundred and fifty yards closer, and we're like, okay, he's coming. So in contrast, I've seen several hunts like that, the turkey starts gobbling, the hunter just starts pouring it to him, just on the turkey's gobling his goblins goblin. And then you're in the same situation that you are when the turkeys on the limb and you're roosting. The turkey's off there where he's at that afternoon, and you're steady calling to him, and he's going, okay, i'll gobble. I'm right here where he at. And then oftentimes he never shows up. He just stands right Darren, God was waiting on you to come to him. And so, um, mistakes overcalling can can definitely be one of those. Is probably one of the most common ones. Uh. And then other than that is probably just getting too aggressive. We know turkeys can see very very well and they can hear very very well, but we let that seem to slip our mind thatt at convenient times and you end up trying to get too close and you bump them. That's that's a very common one. Um. Yeah, there's there's a million ways to mess up a turkey hunt. Yeah, I guess that's why it keeps us coming back, right, It's not. It's always a new puzzle to try to figure out each day. Yeah, what about something you mentioned that Jordan did and and maybe you already answered the question because you described how he did this, but I'm curious if you ever think about it differently. It's that that question of Okay, I realized I shouldn't call too much, but how do I then choose one I should? So he said, Okay, it's it's whatever time twenty one on, I'll call again. So he said, okay, nine minutes. But how do you think through when the right time is to do it? Are there any I'm just kind of curious about your thought process there. How you make sure that you have some kind of guidance. Yeah, it's man, Honestly, it's just sitting down to turkeys and working in turkeys, just the reption, repetition, and you kind of I know this may sound kind of vague, but you kind of just get a feel for it. Um Whereas like especially like the turkey that was struck yesterday afternoon, Oftentimes, if you strike a turkey like that and then he starts answering like he did and then gobbles on his own. Chances are you don't have to call at him anymore, you know. And then especially I think I heard an old timer say at one time, he said, never yet up to a turkey that's walking to you, you know, like Collins Collins, for the sake of letting you know I'm here. And then you're hoping that you can pique his interest enough that he'll that he'll come, you know, because like the common saying is true, the way supposed to go in the natural world is he gobbles and the hen comes to him. So um, like if it what will cause it? Taking a turkey's temperature, Like if I have to pull a gobble out of a turkey. And what I mean by that is like if I yelp and nothing, you know, if I say, if yelp nothing, if I yelp and then cluck nothing, And maybe if I yelp and cut and still nothing, And then if I just cut really aggressively and he gobbles, then he's probably not all that fired up. So I'm you know, I'm either gonna slow play him or or it just depends on the turkey. If he's answering everything, and he's steadily closing distance, then I'll set the call down. But if he's just answering every once in a while, then I'll call a few times, let him answer. Then i'll give him five ten minutes, and then I'll call again and see where he's at. And sometimes it's just a matter of you're not in a place that he wants to be, and you have to get up and move. Sometimes that moves only a hundred yards, but it's enough for him to go, oh, that hands over there, you know I wanted to go there anyway, and then it works. Um. But really it's just a matter of repetition and sitting down to turkeys and you just kind of get a feel for what they want to do and what they want to hear and when they want to hear it. And I'm no, I'm no expert at it. Like I said, I'm I'm I'm The success that I have comes from several a lot more error than success. That's that's the recipe I think for any eventual success is just screwing up enough and learning as you go. Turkey hunting is a is a win, some lose. Most kind of sport, yes, that's that's the truth. So what about what about the scenarios outlined there where you take a turkey's temperature and he's not coming in. He'll answer every once in a while, but he's out there. He's hung up. He is making his presence known, but he just won't close the distance. You described one, uh possible option, which is to get up and move. Can you can you walking through either some more detail on that or anything else you'll do to try to break a hung up bird? Sure? Um, so several times, like I can think of a hunt we were on and we were just we struck this turkey. And when when we struck him, we first heard him gobble. We were standing in a small food plot and the food plot kind of fell off into a bottom, this big pretty hard woods and uh, the turkey the bottom kind of pilled off and then there was a ridge. Um, and the ridge that was you know, ran close to this food plot we were in, but it didn't connect to it, you know, So the turkey just wasn't gonna easily, you know, walk the ridge that he was on and then pop out in the food plot. He would have to walk at amount of ways and bail off get into the bottom then walk out into the food plot, and he came. You know, he walked down the ridge a certain amount of ways, but it became very obvious he would answer us, but he was like, I'm not leaving this ridge. You know, that's just where he wanted to be. And you'll you'll find that, you know, especially um, if a turkey is in a spot like it's a big pretty spot, he might be in there just strutting and drumming and and gobling and doing his thing, and he's just kind of a lot of times we just say he's in his happy place, you know, he's not. He's where he wants to be. That's probably where he goes to goblin, drum and attract hands and then he goes from there. So what my move there would be is, I mean, I'm I'm gonna give that food plot a few minutes to see if he will break and come. But after a while I'm gonna find a way to slip off into that bottom and try to get on the same ridge with him, you know, because the I've found the most success that I have and calling in turkeys is if I put myself in a position where he does not mind going, or if he's somewhere that he already wants to be. The calling job gets a lot easier if if you're somewhere that he already wants to go. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, uh anything, And this is I don't know, this is pretty common sense, I guess. But when it comes to sneak it in on turkeys, right, making those moves so many times, that's when a hunt gets blown, Right, it's when he decided to make a move in those damn eyes they have, they pick you off. Anything you've had, anything you've learned about sneaking in change positions successfully? Yeah, absolutely, uh. And again it comes from trial and error, because I have spooked a pile of them in my younger days. Um So, for instance, like the the scenario was talking about there, the food plot at the bottom and the ridge. Uh, you know, especially if it's you know, an earlier season, which that one I'm talking about, particularly, it was still fairly early in the season, so the woods are way open. So the easiest and the quickest way to walk is just bail off that food plot, getting the bottom and walk to that turkey. But you know, obviously, right, if that happens from walking through a wide open bottom and he's the top of the ridge looking down, He's gonna see me, and then you're gonna sit there going quite he quit goblin. Well he saw me, you know. So I'll oftentimes I've found, unless you're hunting somewhere that has a lot of topography, um, which this place, you know, it really didn't. I mean like you had that ridge, but that to get to that turkey, um that you have to Oftentimes you have to take either the more difficult ways or the longer ways to get yourself in a better position. Um Like oftentimes we'll back straight out, you know, or I'm I'm I say not. Oftentimes in that situation you back straight out, you kind of get on the same You get where that ridge is and you getta get on the side of it, and then you just try to put as much cover between you and him and just kind of slow intentional moves, you know, uh, where you're not just walking in the wide open I've found that not even just having them see you, but walking really loud, you know, crunching leaves and sticks draws as much at because they got really good ears too. So and another another thing that helps a lot. I've seen a lot of steaks, and it's like they have locked in their mind the last time I heard him, God was here, and so you just think he's still right there in that exact same spot when he I mean, he could be close. And so a lot of times what we'll do is either we won't necessarily yelp to him, Uh we will if we have to, but if he can, if he's fired up enough where he'll answer a crow or even an owl, hoot, because that that's a lot of folks think you can only al hoot and get him to gobble in the morning, allow hoot all throughout the day and still and still have success with it. And they're not thinking it's a turkey. They're just gobbling that out. So if you can keep that turkey gobbling and keep a reference to him, then you can go all right, I can get you know, this thicket right here between me and him, and I can gain another hundred yards and keep that, you know, keep that blocking me so I know he won't see me. That kind of just kind of taking your time. How frequently do you think you can do that without some kind of risk of maybe there's not a risk. But how frequently will you do that owl hoot to try to check location? Is that every five minutes? Is that every hundred yards? Is it? I don't know. How do you think about those checkens? Yeah, that that's a good question because you definitely don't want to just be like or you know, I mean, uh so every five minutes, it's is probably fine. Um. And because like you can't overdo it. I mean, at some point you have to think the turkey's going why is that al hooting so much flying towards me? You know? But uh, you know, and sometimes if you get lucky and he's just gobbling on his own, but those are you know, near and far between. But yeah, probably if you're doing it every five minutes, you're fine. Um. And I'm not talking about like getting just crazy with your alcohol either, just a you know a lot of times you'll hear an al just let out a singular note. Just that's usually what we go with first. Um. And if we do that, you know, if we get him to answer us twice and he's in the same spot every time, then you know, well you you try to you use it, uh, I guess that you're on discretion, you know, because you, like you said, you're not trying to overdo it, but just enough that you can kind of keep him pegged and still keep moving. So every five minutes is probably fairly safe to say. Yeah, I heard you talk to I think it was Jordan's once about how every hunter, for most hunters have got that one call that when nothing else is working, that will draw to gobble. There's something there seems to be those those certain box calls or certain different things that when you really got to get one when they're not shocked, goblin too, the owl, whatever it is you're saying, all right and put on a pull at old Trustee and then do X Y and Z on it and damn it, that's gonna get us a gobble. What is that for you? Or have you seen anything that commonly is okay when you really need one, try this? Yeah. Um, So oftentimes when you like you have, like we a lot of times we call him a gobble puller. You know that. I mean that because well you hear it down here a lot again redneck terminology. But then you said, man, that that calls a gobble puller, And uh, often times it's a box call and it's not not only a box call, but it's got a it's a box call that's got a real, real sharp high front end and then it falls off really hard on the back end, just a real sharp yelp. Just yea. And um, what's been doing it for us is, Uh, there's a it's called the Tall Timber Gabriel. And it's no surprise why that call works so well. It's like a it's a like a Will Primo's design to the core, like you think he he kept that call of secret for a few years and was working on it and got it the way that he liked it. Um, but that call and it sounds a lot like the Premo has had a box call a couple of years ago. It's called the Heartbreaker and that was one of the most popular calls that that they had at the time. It was way before I worked here, and uh, it was kind of The Tall Timber Gabriel is kind of based off that call. But it's got like these Will wanted to have thumb grews. We could cut on it easier. And often times when it's worked for us this spring and springs in the past, as you'll get that that box call and you'll yelp on it really hard. His four notes just out and then cut on it. So it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, gotta and that we'll pull a gobble out of a turkey on in the most dire of situations. It's it's mind blowing, like I've I've seen it in certain situations, like it'll be up in the morning, nothing's really gobbling. You're like, all right, where do we go from here? Maybe let's try to strike one. Someone will yelp with their mouth call and nothing. Someone will yelp with their slate call and nothing. And then Jordan will pull out that tall timber Yeah, yeah, yeah, gott dot ball and you're like, where has that turkey been? You know, it's just I don't know what it is. Just something about that frequency makes some gobble. Yeah, just getting a little nasty with it. Sometimes just gets yeah. Yeah. The first turkey I killed this spring, we had heard him gobble. We made a move towards him. Um, I al hooted nothing. I mean, and again, this is up in the day. This is probably don't I know it was later than eight am. I al hoo did nothing. Wait a little bit, I got out my slate, I yelped nothing. I cut and yelped on my slate nothing in. Jordan said, you want to hit him with the top timber. I said, yes, so I take the camera pointed him. He pulls out that box call, yelps off nothing. Then he does the hard yelp and cut got got cotton turkey gobbles. I was like, thank you for doing that. Yeah. Speaking of speaking of using Jordan's box call, I've also seen you guys do some calling in tandem working off. Can you can you talk a little bit about what you're thinking about when you're doing that kind of thing or some something I've done the past. I know a lot of guys do it too. Is sometimes you'll have a buddy to do the walk away and call while leaving some up front. Are there any other ways that you kind of tag team turkeys and that kind of fashion or can you describe more detail behind you do that? The probably the one of the most lethal ways that doing what you're doing. And honestly, I don't get to use this tactic very much just because when you're filming and stuff, it doesn't it doesn't work that well because you can get yourself in a sential ation really quick where you're like, oh crap, everybody sit down, and when you're dealing with camera equipment and just sometimes it was fast set ups just don't work to your advantage. But um, yeah, Jordan and I are not with me and George because we hunt together a lot. We'll yell back and forth to each other. And again it's kind of that same situation I was talking about with Wilber where you're trying to paint a picture. Well, I mean if the turkey gets kind of excited and there's one hen, well, all of a sudden, you start cutting back and forth at each other like it's two hens kind of arguing or they're excited, then that can make that turkey very excited because he's going, oh goodness, there's two of them over there. And so I've had that work and break a turkey that was hung up several times. But one of my favorite things to do when you're kind of calling in tandem, um and I was able to do it this year in Alabama. I was down there just fun hunting. We weren't filming or anything, um is we will walk to the turkey. And again, this is in Thicker Woods Foliage had some topography We're not just walking through wide open flat timber, you know. Um, but we were moving towards the turkey, and we were calling at him as we were moving. And what just to kind of frame that up to be more specific, kind of tell what I'm seeing, what I'm talking about, is so there was me, uh, and then there's the other guy that was calling, probably walking twenty yards ahead of me, and we're just kind of sound. We were trying to just sound like two hens walk into the woods moving to these goblin turkeys. And why I think that works so well is again that's is that's how how that's supposed to play out in nature. That you the turkey gobbles and the hen goes to him. So as we're walking towards him, you know, I would cluck and yell and then he would answer me, I mean just now, And then twenty yards ahead, he'd yelped back at me, and turkeys would gobble. And then we as we got closer, we got a little bit more excited. I would yelp harder, and he would yelp, y'all harder at me. The turkeys are goblin more. And then finally, one time, um, I yelped and cut and he yelped back at me and the turkey's gobble and they're a hundred yards away. We were like, crap, gotta sit down. We sat down and then probably, I mean honestly, probably less than ten minutes later the turkeys were dead. But that is a lethal, lethal method when it's used correctly, because again it's it's it's all about adding realism. And when that gobler, goblin turkey is hearing these hands make his way to him, he's thinking, all is right in the world, you know, So that's that can work very well. Yeah. I like that. I like this overall theme of of painting that picture and how you can do that with the calls, how you can do that with your movement um and I think you can probably do that in a literal sense, in the sort of way with decoys, which we haven't really talked at all about. Can you can you tell me just a little bit about what you do to take those decoys to the next level, Like we know the standard put a couple of decoys out and you know, we don't need to talk about the basics, but how do you paint that most realistic picture with their decoys? Are there any little tricks that you've learned to just to ramp it up a little bit or add some realism or anything like that. Sure. Um, So if you're hunting in an open setting, um, and you know a lot of times I'll use jake decoy a lot. Um. I'll often use a Jake decoy more than I would even a strutter. Um. And as far as like adding realism and and getting you know, a long beard a gobbler to close if you will put like we have that um um um gob stopper Jack how I'm how am I forgetting the name so gob stopper Jake. But it's just a half struck Jake decoy right, um. And we take a hin and kind of put her in a breeder position down on the ground and put him where he's standing over her. You want to talk about a turkey, you know, turning inside out to get over to you that that works? Which again that's no, that's no big secret. Um. As far as like, uh, what we'll do is I've talked, you know about using decoys in the timber. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. Um. One thing that I will do if I am hunting the timber, I will say I hardly ever use a gobbler decoy. When I say at gobbler decoy, I mean of of any degree of jake construt or anything. If I'm using the decoy up in the timber, it's usually just alone. Hen and uh, what I'll do oftentimes as far as just the standard like put it out in front of you and hope the turkey comes up to it where it's twenty yards away. Is um just a trick I guess is if you're if you're caught up in a setup that's kind of open, you know, where you're like, I have to sit here, but I'm not so sure about it because I feel kind of exposed. Is you can take that decoy and still put it to where you know, if the turkey comes to it, he's You're it's in a position where you can very easily shoot at it. But I won't put it directly in line with myself, you know what I'm saying. So the turkey, if he's looking at the decoy from the way that I think he's gonna approach, he's not. He's not able to look right over the decoy and see me sitting there. Maybe I may be put it off to the left a little bit or off to the right, just to where if he comes in and he's focused on that decoy, he's also his his line of view that he's focused on will not include you know, the big green gorilla sitting by the tree. That's a good that's a good point. That's a good point. Do you add any movement. I know some guys will have a fan with them. I think I've heard you mentioned using this in the past. Will have a fan, will hold up every once in a while. Do you do that or anything like it? Yes, rarely in the woods, rarely in the woods. Um and in open settings absolutely, I've again, I know there's some guys that think, you know, fan of turkeys is you know or is a sinful way to kill a turkey? You know, whatever, I do it, uh, I have no problem with doing it. Uh So we have used it in the woods before, like if you know, sometimes long beer, he'll get to eighty yards or so and he just kind of won't close. We'll try to stick the fan up and just show it to him. We've had that work before, and we've had it. We've had it work. We've had it where they don't like it and turn going to leave. And then we've had them where they definitely see the fan and just doesn't change their demeanor at all. Um. As far as a fan working, I've seen strutter decoys and fan in turkeys work a whole lot better in an open type setting like out in the field or a food plot or a power line. Um. But yeah, I sometimes we'll have like just a hen out the same kind of thing. He can see the hen, but he's way across the field or way down the power line or whatever. And then you show him that fan several times. That can be enough to break them and make them come in awesome. Well, I will tell you something like you have officially gotten me very excited for tomorrow morning because it is opening date tomorrow morning for me in Michigan. And and like I mentioned, I'm not gonna shoot one. I'm just gonna go out there and try to play with them, I guess. But I'm gonna get out there nonetheless and uh and have some fun with it. So thank you for doing this. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it very much. Yeah, me too. We're where can people see what you guys are up to? I know, you've got videos, podcasts, everything. Where can people follow on that content? Yeah, so obviously we have we have Instagram, uh, Premos Hunting on Instagram. I have my personal page, which I'm pretty easy to find, just because you know, late Pickle is not the most common of names. And thank my thank my parents for that one. But um, and then so we have our YouTube channel. But then the coolest thing that we have right going going on right now our Premos is we have a new web series. You know, for the longest time it was you know, the Primos Truth DVDs and we still have the show on Outdoor channel, but we have a uh web series that we're updating every week that can be found on premos dot com. And it's like like the turkey that Jordan's shot this morning will most likely be uploaded for free for everyone to watch it premo dot com next Tuesday, I think, but if it's not yet, so we we're uploading new hunts on there every Tuesday and Thursday. It's good stuff. I've I've been checking it out and you guys doing a great job, so I appreciate it up and good luck with the rest of Turkey Hunts. Thank you man. I appreciate that. Thank you for let me come on. I'm a huge fan of Wired to Hunt. You do a good job. Thank you for that. Let's stay in touch. Yeah, man, absolutely all right, and that is a rap. Thank you all for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this one. If you're like me, I'm fired up already to go. Like I just said, I'm ready to get out there and do some turkey hunting. So best of luck on your upcutting hunts. I hope you have a great time out there, be safe, be well. I'm I'm hoping for all the best for all of you. I hope you're healthy, hope your family is healthy, and that you're getting through these tough times. So until next time, we will talk to you soon and stay Wired to Hunt.

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