00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon in this episode number two and seventy and today in the show, I'm joined by two men, Hank Forrester and Charles Evans, who I believe it tapped into one of the best ideas yet for helping us solve the hunter recruitment crisis. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Onyx and today an joined by Hank Forrester of the Quality Deer Management Association and Charles Evans from the Georgia Wildlife Federation to talk about one of the most critical issues facing our hunting community. Now you're probably aware of this, but if not, here's the quick scoop. Hunter numbers have been dropping dramatically over the last decade or two, and demographic trends indicate that this is just going to continue to happen as large chunks of the current hunting population reach older ages and stop hunting, and then other Americans in general continue to become more urbanized and out of touch with the hunting tradition. This means we're looking at a hunter population in the future that's going to be seriously dwindling. And we already comprise less than five percent of the American population, and that number is just gonna get smaller and smaller, and the smaller numbers get, the less influence we're going to have on the future of wild places, wild animals, and the opportunity to hunt them. This is a big, big deal, And fortunately, my guests today think they've found a way to help us stop the bleeding, and I think they're onto something. Hanky Charles has begun piloting and spreading a mentorship program they're calling Field to Fork that's helping introduce adults to shooting, hunting, and preparing wild game, and they're having some very encouraging results. And not only that, but they're also starting to gen up interest from the non hunting world too, with press coverage in places like the Waltz A Journal, Fox News, UM, a whole bunch of places that are now talking about what these guys are up to and how they're hoping new people come into our hunting community. So today I pulled Hank and Charles onto the podcast to help us better understand why this all matters, help us understand what they've created with the field before program, and finally, how all of us can help do our own part by mentoring a new hunter this year. So, man, this is some really important stuff. I hope you enjoy this chat, but I also hope you are inspired to join me in this mission. So without further ado, let's take a quick break and then we'll get to chatting with Hank and Charles. All right with me on the line now, I've got Hank Forster and Charles Evans. Thank you, gentlemen for joining me, Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you Bart. Yeah, I have wanted to talk about this topic that we're gonna cover today, hunter recruitment and all sorts of things related to what kind of generically is is labeled our three. UM. I've wanted to cover this in more depth for a while. It's something that's that's both important, UM at a macro level and then on on a micro level to me personally, it's been something that UM, I've recognized that I've been a lot of talk and not a lot of walk on them. I haven't done as good of a job as I need to when it comes to participating in these kinds of things. So I have kind of made a promise to myself this year that not only going to try to talk about this stuff a little bit more, you know, with folks like you and with our audience, but I also want to find some ways to actually get out there and do this myself. So so I guess I bring all this up to say I need some accountability partners. So Hank and Charles, can you be my accountability partners this year and make sure that I not just listen to what you guys have to say about this stuff today, but then I actually do it. Can you guys like shoot me an angry text message if I don't follow up on this stuff. We can absolutely hold you accountable. And you know that the admission is the first step to recovery. So um, you're on your way, well on your way. I appreciate the kind words to kick it off, and I guess, Hank, um, can you can you just give us a little bit of quick rundown, like a cliff Notes introduction to to who you are and what you're doing with with the q D MAY and programs like what we're talking about here, that absolutely. I'm Hank Forster. I'm the Hunting Heritage Programs Manager for the Quality Deer Management Association or q d m A, and I think most of your listeners know. You know, we're a national conservation nonprofit that specializes in white tail deer, but overseeing the hunting heritage programs. UM, you know, working on anything related to hunter recruitment are three, Um, you know, anything to educate a new hunter, to advocate for you know, first time and novice programs and programs that are members run. Um. But it's fairly an extended segment of our work at q d m A, and a really rewarding one as well. But UM, that's kind what I ever see a key you may? Okay, Charles, what about you? Charles Evans? I worked for the Georgia Wildlife Federation. I'm the George R three coordinator and we'll get into more of what that is and then I'm sure and some of the partners the position. But I got into wildlife originally because I love to hunt, and so I went through school and I got two degrees and a lot of my biology, specifically dear biology, and from there I got heavily involved in the research realm. And when this R three movement started really getting some momentum behind it and positions started popping up, I jumped at the chance to get back into the reason I got into natural resources in the first place, which is because I like to hunt. So now my position revolves around increasing hunting participation in societal acceptance of hunting, specifically in Georgia. But I worked at the national level as well. Okay, okay, So so then let's just expand on that. Then you, Charles, give us a high level overview of what you mean when you say are three. So, so what's our three? And then why is this something that's that's been particularly important recently? Yeah, So our three is recruitment, retention and reactivation um. And it's been around for quite some time now, almost ten years. I think at first it was just our two basically recommend retention, and then that reactivation was added on the backside. But our three popped up because we've seen a decline in hunting participation since about the nineteen eighties in this country. And the issue with that, I mean, aside from losing one of the most primal pastimes out there that we have left, you know, Losing hunters directly affects our conservation funding and so the wildlife conservation work that we can do on the ground around the country. And I think you talked about the funding model before on some of your podcasts. Um So that's very important. But when we say are three, we're talking about basically the process by which somebody self identifies as a hunter. So you start with that recruitment stage where you become aware and interested in hunting, and maybe you have a trial opportunity somebody like yourself take somebody out hunting for the first time, and then they would either decide to continue hunting, maybe they get another opportunity to go and they're retained with support from somebody else, and ultimately they end up being retained without support and self identify as a hunter at that point. And then you might lapse at some point where you you have a kid, or you go to school or whatever it might be, and then if you got back into hunting after lapsing, that would be what we call reactivation. Um So, that's the the whole process of it and the issue that we're running into. Uh, you know, we have this culture of hunting in the United States that was formed by a lot of the rural traditions and values that that we're traditionally held in our country. And that's still kind of the culture of hunting today, but the society, the culture of society in general the United States, has shifted, and hunters themselves it's not not really shifted with that. And so we're seeing a lot of urbanization u values changed a lot, and the culture of hunting not keeping up and not adapting with that. And so we we have a lot of people that are now raising their kids in inner cities and they didn't grow up hunting, so they're not teaching their kids how to hunt, and we lose that traditional pathway of mom, dad, your uncle, whoever it was, teaches you how to hunt from a young age and it's just part of life. I mean, you almost don't have a choice at some point right when you're growing up. And now we have we have all of these different audiences that might be interested in hunting but didn't have that avenue to pursue it when they were younger, and now they're adults and you know, they still don't have an avenue or they might be embarrassed to ask one of their friends and only five percent of the US hunts, so there's not a whole lot of people out there. Um, somebody might know that hunt. So it's run into this issue. So when we talk about our three, we're talking about all of the efforts were using to try to increase hunting participation societal acceptance of hunting. So it might be anything from just some marketing efforts to try to uh make society see hunting as an activity that might be relevant to them, to an all encompassing program like Field the Fork that we're going to talk about later, where we actually teach people how to hunt. So so, like you mentioned, this kind of idea of of our three or our two is maybe it kicked off like a decade ago or so. I feel like I've been following along um and been aware of these kinds of efforts. Do you think that are we failing when it comes to our three at a high level like this this people have known there's this demographic shift, this cultural shift. We've been talking about it for a while now, and it's not been like a secret. There's been big media outlets talking about the importance of trying to get more hunters out there and trying to do all these things, but we're still here ten years later talking about the same stuff, and that the numbers have not improved dramatically. We had a little bump up a handful of years ago with one of the surveys, but now I feel like the most recent one came out again, we're backed down. Um, how would you quantify or or qualify the efforts to this point? Um, So I'm gonna tiptoe around us one a little bit because I'm scared. Well, I'm just kidding. I mean, we are failing to an extent, and we certainly were a few years ago. Um. You know, state agencies and federal agencies are the majority of the organizations that are are handling a lot of the wildlife management and trying to recruit hunters, and the United States, at least that's that's how it was, you know. And they're the ones that manage the resource ultimately and set the regulations and the hunting licenses and everything else. And government can be extremely slow to change and adapt. Um, but they are starting to catch up. And evidence of that is is just the fact that I'm sitting here talking to you. You know, when I started this role in December, I was the first state R three coordinator to ever be hired on in the nation. And now I think there's over what forty different states tank with our three coordinators. Now that's a good question. It's it's something. It's over thirty now. But it's growing like wildfire. So this is a growing field, and organizations, including the state federal agencies and all of the industry partners and the non governmental organizations like KDUMA and George Wildlife Federation are really starting to step up to the plate and try to produce solutions to this. But we are a little bit behind on that however. You know you mentioned some of the survey data. Yes, nationally we've gone down, but in some individual states we've been going up. In Georgia's one of those examples, we've been trending upwards in participation numbers since two thousand nine. So, Hank, what would you add? I would I would say that we are failing. Um. I think we're making strides. I think there's been cultural changes within state agencies. We've seen some shifts in the way we do business, you know, in terms of hunting license cells and availability of them. UM. But currently less than five percent of Americans hunt. We but we have this culture you know, I fear and I think it's true that hunters have become insular. You talked to hunters today, and of course you're going to get the other too many hunters. You know, there's not a decline in hunters where I hunt. Um, you know, you're gonna of course get some of that. But also you get this, well everybody I know who everybody I know hunts And it's like, well, if four and a half percent of the US population, you know, sixteen or older hunt, there's no way that everybody you know hunts. So are we choosing not to discuss hunting in front of audiences that we might not know or accepting of it? Um? But you know, I think we can make great strides very quickly in the R three real if it of all hunters you know in the United States today mentor a new hunter this year, we wouldn't be talking about the decline next year. So it's an easily fixable problem. But it's going to create, um, you know, a concise effort, uh, you know, kind of rebranding and remarketing hunting um and of course taking down a lot of the barriers that we've created, um. But you know, hunting appeals to large audiences, and we know from poles that over eighty percent of Americans approve of hunting for food, and so few are doing it four and a half percent maybe, So there's low hanging frood. There's opportunity out there. But we've got to figure out how to create a lot more hunters, UM, and we all have to understand the consequences of becoming a vast minority or becoming um, you know, less relevant in society. Yeah, I think that last point is is so important. I mean to you, you said it. You get this comment from a lot of folks saying, well, I don't see an issue that they're not big enough hunters where I am, or people saying well, I'd like it if there's less hunters because that mean less competition for land access and etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I already have too many people hunting right next to me or trespassing or doing and this are doing that, um so so selfishly. A lot of times we kind of wish we had, you know, the twenty acre piece of public land all to ourselves, or wish that there wasn't someone posted up all around our private property or whatever it might be. But like you said, there are serious consequences to dwindling numbers of hunters that you know, it's just worth repeating and kind of pounding in our heads because it's it's some serious ship, like this is not some small issue, and I'll kind of let me I'll lay out the high level and that I'd love for you guys to maybe drill into this a little bit more. But I think Charles you alluded to it's number one, you've got a funding issue. Hunter license sales fund a tremendous amount of wildlife conservation, habitat related work. So the stuff that that keeps our states are in a state, wildlife agencies functioning and keeping quality habit out there and managing these resources that is primarily funded by hunters. So if hunter lis and sales continue to go down, that funding goes down, the quality of care we can provide to the resource goes down. It grossly simplified. That is one big issue. And then number two on the pr issue side, the fewer hunters that we have, the smaller number of advocates there are in the country for this way of life, for the privileges and rights that we have as hunters. So I think anyone if you pay attention to the news a couple of times a year, something horrible pops up in the media that gets blown all across the web and sometimes the mainstream media and gives hunters a really bad name. And you can look at the c cele Line incident, so many other things over the years where we just as a as a whole community, we get skewered by one bad apple or one bad thing that even maybe it wasn't maybe as missed, our presented, whatever it might be, there are these things that can very quickly change public opinion about something ing um that can lead to real changes that negatively impact us or the things we care about, just based off a one bad pr incident. If we have fewer and fewer people out there that can stand up and say, hey, this is the real deal, this is what hunting really is like, or this is what I've experienced. If we have not even just hunters, but hunters, and then people have a positive experience with hunters. If that number keeps dwindling, you know, just more and more opportunity for our privileges to to disappear. So that is like at the highest level the things that scare me about this um. But I very simplified that, Hanker Charles. Would you guys add anything more as to why this matters um to the future of what we all love to do? Well? Can I can I just jump in and reiterate, you know you talk about one bad apple. We have to remember what I said earlier. We are fortunate to you know, we are seeing some of the highest public approval rates of hunting in the country that have ever been documented of Americans improvement hunting for food. But we also need to be cognizant. You know, Charles touched on our three as a marketing you know, it's it's marketing, it's it's a culture thing. I'm the guy at cutium May who says, remember, think about what you post or what you're doing. How is of Americans that don't hunt gonna perceive it or view it? And so you know from you know q May as an example, if people go to our website, I want them to look at it and say, if they're not a hunter, say it's not for me. But these people are doing good and I want them to support it. And it's the same thing when you're talking about hunting or you're sharing hunting, we see this one person, this bad apple, do something in this public outcride, and then we assume that we have to be on the defensive or we have to be quiet and not show what we're doing. But what it really means is that we need to be cognizant of being respectful and and showing hunting in a good light and making sure that that we're a good ambassador for what we love to do. And so that's really what the public needs to remember. But you're you know, from the pr standpoint, you're absolutely right. Um. You know, there's an eleven percent xise taxigoist to the federal government that's allotted to the states solely based on the square knowledge of the state and the number of honey license they sell, and that's a you know, the majority of the conservation funding. And then from a state agency level, on the hunting license level, you know, almost of those funds are going directly to your state agency and they're the ones that are on the ground managing the game. And in that same you know, on the ground level, as hunters are really the on the ground manager of wildlife in the State and doing a public service there as well as UM. You know you're very familiar with Shane Mahoney. Um. You know he's quantifying the wild Harvest is the Wild Harvest Initiative, but he's quantifying, you know, the amount of meals we pull off of these public or or private rule wildlife you know, um, wilderness or natural environments. And and that's another thing that we're taking away from that ever take Yeah you Um, you touched on a few of the things. Why this matters, like at a macro level, Um, why you know, we might want to, you know, think about these things, take steps towards addressing these things. But what all personally, Hank, why do you care about this personally? Um? Other than just getting you get a paycheck to work on this kind of stuff. But do you do you have anything a little bit closer to to who you are that makes this work? Meaning field you Yeah, I grew up in Ustern, North Carolina, Um, and no one in my family hunting. But western North Carolina has a great culture of like you know, it's the original Frontier or whatever. It has that kind of mountain man and Native American history and the Daniel Boone you know, I was, you know, a half hour from Boone, North Carolina, and so I had an uncle who hunted. Um, but my dad doesn't hunt, doesn't hunt today. Um. But I was around and I saw enough of it to know that I wanted to do it. And I was always fascinated with Indians and mountain men. Um. You know, I've got childhood photos with like pop guns and headdresses and all that kind of stuff. But I aspired to hunt. And um, you know, my family didn't do it. But I had a neighbor up the street, a few doors down, UM, that said that I could go with them anytime they were going. And so I was fortunate enough to find a mentor growing up that you know, allowed me to learn to hunt. Um. And and and that's why I'm a hunter today most likely. And UM, you know, I understand that I think this is a natural desire in most humans. I think, you know, um, you know, Steven Ronola has talked about it a lot about you know, it's it's kind of more unusual that people don't hunt than hunt because of the entire human history. You know, you weren't able to live in a in many most capacities without hunting. Or gathering for food, and so I think it's a natural um desire that I was born with, just like my bird dog was a bird born with a desire to hunt birds. And you know, I've read a book of What Not to Do. You know, it's pretty much this is in your dog, don't screw it up. And I think that humans are no different. I think we're disconnected much of what Swanny referenced about the urbanization and and we're just moving further away from the natural world. But um, it was a natural desire for me, and I was fortunate to have some body show me the ropes. And I hope that I can help others and aspire current hunters to get out there and do the same for others. Yeah, I think your percent right about that they're being this latent um desire and all of us. I think, even if you're not introduced to hunting, it seems many times when you talk to someone who finally is introduced to it, um, they and I'm sure you guys will talk about this with some of the experiences you've had, but from a lot of folks I've talked to that they speak about that thing they never really realized was lying there, lurking underneath the you know, their their daily urbanized life. Then all of a sudden, they go out and they participate in something like this and they tap into something that's very very human um and it's really compelling, and they never realized there was this other way of engaging with the natural world. And once they do, many cases, they're hooked. UM. And I feel like that kind of like you said, we just need to help people tap into that that's already there within them. Just give them the opportunity to do that. Um. So we we didn't even touch on on one other issue that revolves around the whole hunting recruitment topic, which is in addition to changing cultural uh norms and demographics and urbanization all that, and there's also the whole demographic shift as far as age and this huge group of hunters beginning to age out soon. So not only do we have changing cultural things going on, but then we also have a big portion of the hunting public right now, which is approaching an older age class that people just start stopping hunting. They begin to stop hunting once they get into those what is low seventies, mid seventies somewhere around there. Is that right Handker or Charles, Yeah, it's around sixty. Um. But there's there's several graphics out there looking at the data where it basically just shows a cliff where people drop off, and that that hump is moving across as the years ago and eventually, I mean, we're starting to see some people pick up in the millennial age class, which is really good. But if the train continues, we're probably in some pretty big trouble. Um. So hopefully that trend does not continue. Yeah. Yeah, And I was gonna say, that's that's why why I really want to talk to you guys, because I feel like what you guys have tapped into with the Field of Fork program and some of the efforts you've done around that, I feel like you're tapping into one of our best opportunities to avoid some of these doomsday scenarios with Hunter numbers just falling off the cliff. Uh So, let's we've established what the problem is, and we kind of already knew that, but it's going to get a little more context, I guess. But let's talk. Let's talk solutions. I feel like Field the Fork is one of the most compelling solutions I've seen yet the way you guys have been able to developed this, the success you've seen, Um gosh, if we could scale something like that, it gets me really excited. So what is what is Field of Fork? It's been all over the Wall Street Journal in some like the Guardian overseas. I think maybe I saw Fox News covered it. Um, getting hips turning hips to is in the hunters is like the headline of choice lately. Um, what have you guys created a program? Sometimes we call Hank Hank the Hipster. If you can see a picture of him, you know a lot. So we we started Feel the Fork. There was a couple of programs going on like this. Basically, what Feel the Fork is, it's a program to take adults that have an interest in hunting for food or big logical reasons and teach them how to hunt and give them a welcoming hand into it, helping them continue to hunt. And so there's a lot of data to suggest that people that sometimes might be termed as local ores, but we kind of expand that definition and just include anybody that wants all natural food, um and preferably locally sourced. There's a lot of data to suggest that they would be interested in hunting if they had the opportunity to do so. And so one day Hank and I were sitting at lunch at this Jamaican place in Athens. I've got some really spicy stuff, but we were we were talking about what's our our pious sky idea for an R three program, you know, something where we actually take people and take them through the whole process. And both of us are very passionate about food. Hank is an incredible cook and that I've just I've been eating venus in my entire life. I've actually never bought beef from a grocery store before. Um, And so we're both passionate on the food side of it. And living in Athens, Georgia, which is a college town. You know, it's got a lot of farm to table restaurants and then there's a big farmers market presence and a lot of organic farms around here, there's this perfect audience for what we were talking about doing, taking these people that are interested in on atrial food and getting them out there. And so we kind of batted around the idea of what does this program look like and we looked at some example and there was one going on in Wisconsin. UH Keith Warnkey, who works with the state agency, is running I learned to hunt food program up there that's expanded a lot, So we talked to him a little bit. And then kum A was already partnered with a program doing something similar to this in Kentucky. It was actually called the Field to Fork. So we called Kentucky uh pup and asked them how they were doing it, and we kind of took some of their ideas and they were actually generous enough to let us use their name because it's a very catchy name. And we put it all together and we went down to the farmer's market and set up a booth. They were nice enough at Bathens Farmers Market to give us a booth for free since we were nonprofit, and we just handed out samples of venison, just opened up with would you like to try as and venison and got people to come to the table that way, and it was crazy. We didn't know what to expect um, but it was wild how many people were willing to try venison. And we had vegetarians and vegans trying venison that they were fine with it because lived a life free of and welcare concerns. We had. Pretty much everybody they came by the table would try venison and approaching hunting in that for the food or for the ecological reasons. Manner was really appealing to pretty much this whole audience. I don't think we had any negative experiences, except for that one girl you piste off Hank. Oh. Yeah, now, Charles, Charles is absolutely right. I mean it's you know, you probably run into it every day. But you know, I'd moved to ath And a couple of years previously, and you know, meeting a new group of people, what do you do? I worked in conservations and then a couple of weeks later, you know, what are you doing? And I'm going hunting? And I go, oh, I thought you said you worked in conservation or um. You know, I've been to the Farmer's market and they were doing chef demonstrations and one Saturday I was watching the lady make rocotta cheese and I'm thinking, man, we should just bring in a deer and break it down as a chef demonstration. But I didn't have the confidence at the time to be the person who broke down the deer in front of you know, forty people of the farmers market or whatever. But um, we decided to get set up that booth and we didn't know what to expect. But of course the number one question we'd get, uh, you know from current hunters is a that was the lines then or whatnot? But nothing further from the truth. UM. Gone a few eye rolls over the years, but it's probably offering me to a vegetarian or vegan, um, and all power to them. That's their choice and I totally respect that. UM. And then we've had, you know, a couple of people that no one will confront you in front of people, but you know, after hours or whatever, just a couple of people have said something but they just weren't willing to look at the facts. You know. We often talked to people about, you know, the same reasons they're vegetarians or vegans are the same reasons we hunt. Uh. You know, UM, we have a lot of shared values. And so over the years we've taken uh you know what I mean, at least five or six vegan or vegetarian next vegetarians or vegans through the program, maybe a couple more this year. Yeah, I mean we've got people that that still identifies vegetarians that hunt now, but they're fine with Basically, they're against factory farming, which I totally get. But you cannot be vegetarian or vegan and be against hunting. It is absolutely not possible if you think through the logic, because if you're eating I mean, if you're vegetarian or vegan, you're probably eating some soley based products like tofu. And if you're eating something that's made out of soley beans, you're contributing to the death of deer because you've either got to hunt those fields pretty heavily or you have to use depredation per minutes to keep your beans a lot. I mean, they're else deer or wife out, at least in the Southeast. I mean that's something that a lot of people don't realize, is you know, you gotta kill deer to have the plants. So if you're gonna be a vegetarian, you might as well particip in the whole process. Yeah. Yeah, So we also learned that most of the vendors at the farmers market or deer hunters. Yeah, that's good. They ate a lot of innocence. See, you guys brought in venison. You've got a table you've got a booth the farmer's market. Uh, what kind of walk me through how you were actually taking food samplers and converting them to participants in a program. Do you guys have like a pamphlet describing this program? What was the program you guys were talking to these people about? Um, what was the next step after getting kind of there's venison diplomacy. You hear people talk about which I love, which is you know, providing this positive interaction with a hunter by way of sharing food. So you guys did that? What was the next step? Yeah, so you're absolutely right. I mean we talked about you know, our three subtitle acceptance and you know, increased participation in hunting and you know, you may we've got goals through mentoring and we've got sharing goals of venison. We got DONA and goals, but still support touches on both kind of the sharing and the mentoring. And I mean, you know, we can't quantify the value of having a pro hunting focused booth at the Farmer's market and and all these hundreds of samples we hand out at each market, but um, you know, even the people who don't take us up on it usually smile and say, you know it's not for me, but I'm glad you're here. Is something of that sentiment. But um, you know, we we all for the samples, cook some backstraps, some broad worse, some jerky. We've done breakfast sausage on the Saturday morning markets. Um, but you know, we lead off with hey, would you like to try some venisine? I usually start with you know, do you eat much venisine? And we've been I've been surprised that I shouldn't speak for Charles, but I've been surprised at how many people are saying that they're eating venicine, And and many of them aren't hunters, so they're obviously getting it from a hunter or some other way. But a lot of people and and maybe there's a little bit of that, you know, just like a new hunter kind of will pretend they a little bit more about hunting. Maybe it's just a you know, a cool club kind of thing where you know, they say they eat more of innocent than they do, but it seems like they're getting ahold of innocent. And then you know, I'll ask him, well, have you ever thought about for curring it yourself? Or you know, have you ever been interested in hunting, and and um, you know you get different reactions. Um, but you know, there's some college studies and Charles will know more than I do, but some studies out of Climpson showed that because it's college students were interested in hunting, it was something along those lines that I have. I mean, so there's there's this huge swath of the population that's interested in by making it attractive and offering samples, and um, you know, we filled up a program in two hours the or three hours the first Saturday we ever set up at the Farmer's Market to a waiting list. That year, we only took eight participants. But um, you know, we filled up in in one market, but we we into a few just to fill it out. We have a Saturday market that's at a local park and it's kind of the larger market, and then we have a Wednesday market at a local brewery, and as you can imagine, we get a lot of people that volunteer to help out at the Wednesday market or whatever. But um, it's of our participants come from Saturday morning. And I don't know if it's just the Farmer's market on Wednesday as an excuse to go drink a couple of beers, or it's just a different dedication level for somebody to get up at eight a m. And make it to a farmer's market. I don't know, but that that's been one interesting trend. We don't we don't miss any Wednesday markets. Uh, when we're recruiting, sure, even though they know about it, but it is it's pretty interesting. So we hand up that fact sheet and then we get our list of participants that want to sign up, and we actually do like a pre questionnaire to make sure we're picking the right people because we do have a limited capacity for this program. For example, this year we took fifteen people um and that the Athens Field the Fork event, and we make sure that we're picking people that they want to do it for the food of the ecological reasons and people that actually haven't hunted before or at least have very limited experience. And then we bring them all in and we do multiple training nights. So we want people to come through the program and even if they don't continue to hunt, at least understand hunting a little bit better and understand why hunting is important to conservation. So we do week day evening training nights where we talk about conservation history and how hunting relates to conservation historically and present day um and then we talk about deer biology and how the biology relates to hunting strategy. We take them out in the woods and we show them how to read deer sign just take them through the entire training process there, and the most importantly we do shooting training. And for this program, we were trying to decide what to do and we settled on crossbows as our our weapon of choice for Field of Fork And there's a few different reasons for that. One of them was we kind of decided that, you know this, this participant base might not be as open to firearms Initially. Initially we thought that archery equipment might be more palatable because there's the stigma that surround firearms, especially right now in the United States, and that actually turned out to be true with quite a few of the participants. Would have people come up to the boot and think about, you know, I couldn't do that, I couldn't shoot anything with a gun, and we tell them we're gonna train them on a crossbow and they're like, oh, well, maybe I could participate in that that take a flyer. You know, we heard from several participants as well that went through the whole program that they appreciated the fact that it was done with a crossbow, so that was pretty interesting. But we we put them through that whole training process and then we have a hunt weekend, and I should say through the whole trainings we incorporate the food aspect because that's the main theme of the program is, you know, sourcing your inn all natural protein. So Hank does Venison tacas or I think we did brought works one night in Venison Burgers. We've been kind of a little bit everything. But we go into that hunt weekend and we pair them with mentors. So the first year that we did it, which would have been two thousand and sixteen, we were trying to decide who to pair them with, and the ones we came up with the quickest that that seemed like it would be the best bit were the u g A Deer Lab graduate students, So the University of Georgia as a dear research program here and Athens. It's pretty well known and obviously all of those grad students would have a pretty decent knowledge of hunting and dear Biology can be able to answer any questions and be fairly open minded as well. We wanted to be kind of touching this first year just to see how it went. So we I contacted them because that's where I went to school, and we got the grad students on board and they served as the mentors and we took everybody out and then following years, we're trying to figure out how to make it more sustainable, and we just used the Athens Quality their Management Association brands. We approached them with this idea and use those members and they were all on board. I mean, I mean they were a little hesitant at first, I think, but then they really jumped in and they've taken ownership of Athen's program now. But we were pair them with the mentors and we take them out on properties all around Athens here, some in town, some just outside of town, and hopefully we get some some harvest, but either way they get a pretty neat experience, and then we continue on with follow up opportunities. We encourage those mentors to take them back out. There's property here in kdum A that they can hunt for the rest of the season, and then we have a what we call a culinary social. Let's a follow up dinner. We drink some beer and some wine, cook some of the venice in that their harvest has been else and have them tell their stories. Um, and we can get some of the stories a little bit later here. But one thing that I didn't want to mention is you mentioned earlier talking about how it's you finally feel like you're human. You know, it's this this activity where you you didn't realize you had it in you. You didn't realize how it would feel. And we hear that a lot from the participants. You know, a lot of these people are very outdoor participants, and they they might have hiked or camp or kayak or whatever it might be, which is all passive interaction with nature. But when you're hunting, you're truly involved in the natural cycle. And we have just off the top of my head, one of the participants, we've got her own video saying this. She was talking about how she harvested her first year with that cross bow, and she made the perfect sound effect about just how it sounded and everything, and she talked about how it was sad, but at the same time she was really happy and that the feelings she felt was that it was like she was finally human, which we just thought it was very interesting. Yeah. Yeah, So let me walk back back a little bit just to throw in some detail. But you know what Charles was talking about with you know, recruiting the deer lab and um, you know, our first year we recruited a kind of younger demographic than we've run into the last couple of years. And uh, and that may have been due to the second year, we scheduled our hunt date on the day of a home U G A football game. We just went with the second week in the bow season. Um, you know, we used crossbows because of the palatability, but also we want to take uh you know, advantage of our early archery seasons where deer are still more patternable. Uh. The you know, it's actually unfortunately sometimes it's too hot, but you're not dealing with cold weather. There's still a lot of day light in the afternoons after work. But um, you know, the difference between Filled the Fork and a lot of the other programs out there is we diligently work to try to make this program sustainable and replicable. So um, we called around on text I D maps and got permissions of properties around Athens to hunt, um, many of them within the belt loop. And we talked about, you know, the urbanization of our population and stuff. But you know, I'm one to argue that we overlook a lot of our best opportunity, especially to mentor new hunters in these kind of suburban and urban areas. You know, we have white tels. I live in downtown Athens, and you know, obviously a small college town, but there's near in my backyard, Um that would be legal to harvest. I'm not gonna do it because of roads and stuff like that, but you know, we found opportunities and pockets around town. We used a process that we could show them how we've utilized all next maps and given our participants subscription on x Maps, which is awesome for you know, locating the potential properties and as you know, with the property owner, you know lines and information. I mean, you can figure out who has five or ten acres that might give you permission to hunt. But um, you know, we we went through these steps to try to make it replicable to the participant and also a program that we could scale and um and with the recruitment of the u G a Deer Lab participants that year, I think Charles, we had four successful harvests out of eight really seven who really took the program seriously. And we found that if again the rule of our participants are continuing to hunt, and I think that's as good as we'll ever get. We we might have had a little higher than that this year, but you know, some people go through they experience it and it's just not something that really just inspires them to go the next day. And then you have the other ones who hunt thirty days that year, but um, you know, as a Deer Lab students didn't allow for that follow up opportunity. And and the success of the program is not in the organized events, but in the opportunity for these participants to utilize the potential access to check out cross those and gear, um, but to allow them to continue to grow as a hunter. And and we talked about how you work your way through uh you know, becoming and self identifying as a hunter. And I really believe that's two different confidence levels. They obviously take time to um, you know, to to gain the full confidence, but one is they have to be confident to take care of an animal or they're not gonna go hunting and they're not gonna shoot at anything they can take care of. One of the biggest fears is they don't want to waste an animal's life or the meat. And so if you don't make them confident or give them a resource, so you know, mentorship comes in a multitude of level. Some people need multiple years of hands on, you know, hunting, and others may need one afternoon in the stand and then have your cell phone number in case they need help dragging something out or or or cleaning this um. And the second confidence level is I believe that self identifying as a hunter is a confidence level to be like, I can do this and do this on my own. That's confidence. And so we we understand that it takes time to build that, and the program's built. We brought in the athletes Q and a branch to service mentors. They're opening up their access. I'm a I'm a big proponent. I believe the quickest way we can affect access is by invites. You know, I can't do a lot to change the opportunities for public land deer hunting. We can try to make public lands better. We can try to make more opportunity but the quickest way we affect access is offering the opportunity for somebody to come hunting with us, and so that's what we've asked these mentors to do. Some of them have opened up their properties, but we've all realized that this is hugely rewarding to everyone involved, and it may be their most rewarding hunt and ours as well. If either one of you guys had any experiences you could share personally about what it's been like as a mentor being being a part of this at all. Sure. Yeah, the so the first year one of my my whole life, I've kind of mentored people, you know, throughout college, high school and everything and taking new people hunting, and I've always founded rewarding and a lot of people that we run into existing hunters, and a lot of these organizations traditionally, you know, they'd be willing to take a kid hunting, or a handicapped person hunting, or a veteran hunting. But if you just asked them to take some five year old you know that was fully capable of going on their own aside from knowledge, they kind of turned their nose up at it, which is the wrong mentality because that twenty five year old is actually the person that has the authority in their own lives to start hunting. Might have kids one day at their own and they would teach how to hunt. They probably have discretionary income that they can use to buy the equipment to get out there. So we've been kind of shifting towards adults. And it's really cool when you take somebody. The first year we did this program in twenty sixteen, I served as a mentor for a few people during that program and one guy out um telling them run down real quick. Just I feel like we should talk about the kind of different people were getting different people in the program that year that what was it that you're eighteen? That was eighteen to fifty seven. Yeah. So throughout the three years we've been doing the Athens program, we've had from eighteen years old to seven year old participant male female. We've had everything from uh, people that are professed ers and researchers at the university, two roofers to cheft organic farmers, teachers, whatever it might be. I mean just covering the whole engineers, yeah, race car engineer who's now teaching his kids hunt on But I took this guy out who was an undergrad. And there are two undergrads came to the program the first year that were actually roommates. And this guy's name was Evan. Evan, Yeah, his name was Evan, and he'd never hunted before. He's from a pretty urban area. You know, you could tell like these swarming around him and things like that. Yeah, maybe an actual one. I'm sure he wouldn't be appreciate being labeled, but maybe you would. I don't know. But anyways, we take him out on this property and like Hank said, we're using these urban properties. I've literally knocked on this ladies door after I looked up information, the tax map information, and just gotten permission to hunt twenty acres right there beside her house. You know, I hung a stand up there and hung a double hang on set in the senior tree. We walk out there and I'm explaining how everything's gonna go to him, and so we get in this hang on set, and what I was kind of surprised about is he was way more still than I was. I was over there messing around with my phone, and he was rock solid, locked in looking for deer the whole time. And we ended up I mean every time a squirrel would jump around, you know, he had slowly turned around and asked me if that was one, And it was pretty cool to see the reaction. But eventterestly we had these two dos and a fawn start working their way down. We were kind of in some water eggs right there, and then there was this opening just up the way. They were working their way down to the opening, and they were going to bypass us, and so I can I just kind of wrote them off. I was like, it looks like they're gonna walk right by. How to range their head another direction? And I go back to playing around on whatever I was doing, I don't know, Facebook or something and being a terrible minuet, and uh he goes, he goes, and I was whispering until I was telling him something. He was like, be quiet for coming back. I was like, oh, okay, so do youer started working their way back and they're going to step out perfectly in the shooting land that I cut it about thirty yards and I had him get the crossbow up and everything and take the safety off. U went in and ranged where the deer was gonna step out. I told him where to to hold on the radical, and the deer stepped out and I did a little mouthfleet and stopped her, and he just hammered her. I mean, squeeze that trigger perfectly, and he was calm the entire time until the second he pulled the trigger. Right after that, he just started shaking like a leaf. And it just reminded me, It's incredible. No matter what background you come from and what's your life experiences are, You're still going to have that same the action, that same rush when you you squeeze that trigger. Initially, it was pretty cool to see what I've always felt, you know, in somebody else, especially in an adult, when they get that excited about harvesting their first animal. And both those roommates harvested that first year they lived with what five other guy. So I'll tell the other side of that story and got I mean, you know, Charles was telling a story that the first time hunter knew something he didn't and he called me an incredible chef. So I'll say Charles is an incredible hunter. But I I did the same thing with them. His roommate, we were out here and QTa May had a redneck blind that had a little food plot in front of it. That was fenced off until until we were ready for archery season. But this little little four pointer or spike came in and um, I just caught a glimpse of it out one of the windows and it came in right on the on the wall side that he was sitting on. So we had to switch to eights and you know, stone cold switch seats. Um made a good shot and the deer ran off and we get down and we go and look and the blood has just a dark pinp to it. And I was like, oh, we might you know, And and he had made a great shot. He had just gone a little bit back and um, but you know, he wasn't accounting for the angle of the deer as much, but it was still a great shot. And I said, well, we better give this deer some time. And he goes, it's right there and it hadn't gone fifty yards. It was in the next little opening over and uh yeah, exactly what Charles was getting at. These two guys I think lived with five guys. They put two deer in their freezer. Um. Evan did donate a backstrap back to our culinary social So he ate a backstrap of his deer. The culinary social day here. But I mean these guys must have been, you know, the cool kids on campus. I mean just you know, fifty hundred pounds of Dennison and the freezer. Um. But we you know, over the years, I guess I've sat with four five first time harvest Now. Um. We both hunted with a guy that uh named Dan, and he didn't want to wear shoes to hunt. Um. He wanted to fill the earth under him and I thought that sorry, okay, So this was this was literally the first hunt of the program, and I paired myself with this guy that we ended up calling shoelas Dan. Really cool guy. Uh. He's a nutritionist and very intelligent. Um. But he he wanted to get into hunting so he could source his own proteins. So he fit them old perfectly. But we're driving around and we're dropping off the other hunting pairs at their respective locations. Then we get to where we were gonna go, which was his ground blind but we had about it, I don't know, five or six hundred yard to walk in, you know. So we get out of the truck and I noticed he's not wearing shoes. It's like, Danny, you can put some shoes on and he goes, no, no, I think I'm gonna go bare foot. I just like to feel the forest under my feet. I was like, okay, so we're gonna bebop and duck in the woods. And we get to the ground blind and I've set up this blond and brushed it in and everything, you know, a few weeks prior, and I've got two chairs in there. So we get in and I've set his chair up for him, and he goes, I think I'd like to sit on the ground. And I was like, okay, So I moved the chair out of the way and he he sits on the ground because he wanted to be more connected to the ground. You know. About ten minutes later, he goes, I think I might try that chair now, all right. I set up the chair for him, and in about thirty minutes, the mosquitoes find us, and I mean they are we're doing this an early season in Georgia. You know, they are wearing his feet out. I mean, I've never seen so many mosquitoes and somebody's beets before. Because he wasn't wearing shoes, but he it was it was hard to not laugh, but he had he was a trooper about it, and he had such a great experience. We had a doe come through at thirty yards at last light and he could quite get a shot on. Everybody got the whole rush of you know, trying to get in the right position and everything. And he ended up harvesting later in the program. And that just I mean, it kind of shows you that we we have all these different people from different walks of life that that have unique perspectives about things, but they're all there because of that common goal to eat more sustainably and neat be more in tune with nature, which is pretty unique for a program. Yeah. Yeah, And so Dan and I got his first deer a week or two later. Um, actually a fawn he chose. I told him that, you know, if if he'd be happy with that deer, he could take it. And he did, and uh, you know, he took the kidneys, the liver, the heart. I mean, we sat there and we processed the whole thing. Um, and you know, it's super stoked. But yeah, I mean, you these you know, there are who want to hunt from different backgrounds than possibly me or you, but their desires to hunt and be as genuine or in some cases maybe more genuine than the person who was handed you know, a rifle at ten years old or whatever. I mean. Um, you know, we can tell stories on them. But these these people are awesome friends, um, and great hunters and really enjoy to be around. And we've created this community around that and that we we have you know, at least fifty people who have been involved with the program at least and um, it's really cool and it's inspiring to all parties you get. You hear the participant in talk about how infectious it is to be around a group of passionate people and obviously passionate about hunting. And then from the same side, um, and and I would urge you know, any listener to go read that Wall Street Journal article. It it of course has some spin on it. Um. The spin I think helped it. It obviously created Uh, it went kind of viral, and it was probably a lot to the catchy title. But he did a great job of humanizing our participants and and telling it from their points of view. And you know, you mentioned that Charles talked about human The manager of the Farmer's Market was a participant this year, and and she was quoted in there saying there's this animal side of you, and you know, we all understand that as hunters. You know, they're just getting that taste of it. But it's uh, you know obviously for the food, a connection with nature. Um, that's what we're hearing from our hunters and they're they're really um, it's really fulfilling to everybody. Yeah, it's it's interesting you mentioned a second ago, how um you know, the the way that one of these adult onset hunters might be thinking and approaching a hunt in many cases so different than someone like like myself, who you know, do what you guys talked about earlier, Like, hunting was never even a question for me, Like, it was just what we did from as soon as I was walking, I was up at our deer camp. And I never experienced a single moment of life where I didn't consider myself a hunter and surrounded by hunters. There was never a bit of thought that ever went into it. I never mindfully made the decision or ever had to think about why do I do this? Um? I never had that most of my life. It wasn't until you know, a young adult in my twenties that I really started thinking about those things. Myself, it always just been what I did. Um But I feel like in a lot of these cases, these adults onset hunters, they're very um, mindful about what it is they're doing and why they're doing it. I took him a lot of time and thought to come to the decision to to do this, because they have to really approach this in a thoughtful manner, because no one made the decision for them when they're kids, you know. Um, So it's got to be interesting to get to engage with people that are you know, dealing with that kind of swamp of emotions and questions when it comes to do you want to start, you know, as you said, Charles, engaging this natural cycle of life and death. That is that's it's a really compelling thing. But it's a serious thing too. Um. But you guys talked about like all sorts of different types of people you're meeting, especially if you're gonna go somewhere like like a college town like Athens and go to the farmers market. If that is is a group of people that are you know, really recepted to this, it's probably fair to say that a lot of hunters might um, you know, maybe there's a little bit like an intimidation factor or a this person is different than me factor, or will I be able to relate to these types of people because because like you were saying, Hank, in many cases we are relatively insular. Many times we do kind of hang out with our own little type of people, doing our own little type of thing. Um, And a guy with suspenders, engage earrings and a cut off plaid shirt and type jeans might not be like the usual person you hang out with. Have you, guys, experienced anything or do you have anything to share with people listening right now that are thinking, Man, I want to help get some more people into it, but this trend of like the hipster folks or urban folks getting into it, Gosh, I think they'd be uncomfortable. I don't really want to do that. Can you speak at all to just your experiences interacting with some different folks, um, folks in different backgrounds, different cultural you know experiences, What that's been like? Any advice for someone trying to, you know, connect with some different types of people in this kind of goal, with this kind of goal. Yeah, So let's let's step back a little bit to what you were saying initially, you know, you started hunting as a kid, and so did I, and there was no choice. You know, that was just something that we were going to do. Well, think about coming into that as an adult and having all those emotions and making that decision and that thought process. That was probably a pretty heavy thought process. Think about how intimidating it is to try to start hunting what you're an adult. I mean, it's there's an incredible amount of skills development. You know, hunters as a community traditionally haven't been that welcoming, you know, to outsiders, like we're talking about, we're trying to shift the culture of hunting to make it a more welcoming activity. And then one of the biggest things, if we need to remember, is that you know, hunting his activity for for everybody. It's a very it's one of the the most human activities that we have left other than reproduction, that we still partake in. And it's you know, it's something that transcends societal, political, and religious boundaries activity for anybody that wants to source their own all natural food or that enjoys the outdoors. Um and this message focusing on the hunting for ecological reasons and hunting for the food. Like Hank mentioned earlier, we know from the polls that over are about of the general public the United States except hunting for those reasons. So if you're going to get out there and take somebody hunting with you, then those are the messages to stick with. And you know, just sticking to the facts about natural food, ecological reasons, the funding source, the North American model, it's gonna resonate with everybody. You're gonna focus on a common ground of what resonates with people. Stay away from politics, stay away from religion. You're not going to find two subjects. They're gonna divide people quicker no matter where you stand. So that would be the the main messages. One realized that the number of hunters in the United States directly relates to the quality and quantity of sporting opportunities that we're going to have. Not to mention all of the world of conservation benefits, but just from a selfish hunting perspective, the more hunters we have, the better off you're going to be. You might think, well, I want less hunters so I have more room on the public piece of property. With that public piece of property, is not going to be there anymore, or at least not be open to hunting if we get down to a certain percentage. So it's just something it's very important for everybody to remember that this is something we all need to be advocates for. When you take anybody that's interested, and it's I think Hank's probably gonna touch on this later, but we've seen a lot of the mentors come through and and kind of have the asidency and then later on be surprised. But wow, I had no idea to have that much in common with these people. So it's it's a pretty interesting topic. But the bottom line is we need everybody to get out there start taking people hunting, and we also need existing base of hunters to understand that funding model and why it's so important to conservation. Um was a study done not too long ago where it showed that only hunters actually knew hunting benefits conservation about PR funds and obviously funds and the rest of it. So the more that that we can do, like on this podcast, or you can do when you're talking about it, or anybody writing articles and pushing messaging out there, everybody to understand why it's important um from a conservation standpoint as well. Yeah. So, but you know, we've had these participants to come through. UM. One one gentleman's name was Ron. I think he was probably around fifty years old. He worked for a roofing company locally. And you know, we we get there that first night and we ask everybody to go around and to introduce themselves, you know, who they are, what they do, and why they want to learn to hunt. And he said that you know, there were you know, six or eight offices down his hall, and all of them had deer heads hanging in them except his, and no one had ever invited him to go deer hunting. Um. You know, I think I think adults are very hesitant to ask other adults for help or to do something that, you know, maybe that's something we feel is more childish or something. Um. But then we also have participants like Jim, who Charles mentioned earlier about the human comment. UM, but I called Jim homestead er. Um. She's a really awesome UM. You know, she's a graduate student here at you g A but um, you know it has been a next vegan vegetarian. But she went she used to go or still does she's active in a women's home setting group. She goes on these like outdoor skills weekends, and I have to imagine that like the people at these things that are teaching people how to tan hides or or whatnot or hunters. And so I asked her one death if you know you've never asked one of them or ever been invited, and she talked about, well, she's like, you know, been off the cuff, invited twice, but when she followed up on it, it seemed like she was burdensome. So, you know, a big success of our field to port program is a we're going to this, you know, we're going to a place to find them. We're going to them and um, you know, we are offering a message that we are here for you. This is something we're doing. If you'd like to be involved, sign up. It's not that you're going to be a burden. We're doing this. Join us, um, and so that you know, that's a cognizant effort. A lot of them learn to Hunt programs, in my mind, don't do a good enough job of that. You know, they do sign ups on a on a state agency website. Well, you know what non hunter knows about the state agency. Uh, you know, So we need to be cognizant to get in front of new audiences, and we need to diversify our hunter base and that's the focus of Filled the Port. But at the same time, when you get these diverse candidates, yes, there's initial hesitation and from some of our more traditional mentors, but when they realize that they are valued, that their experience, in their opinion, is valued by these uh you know, these diverse people, it's empowering to them and they realize that they can co exist and they can all you know, bond uh in this shared desire to hunt and and and so we've seen that even with some colleagues and minor qt M A some mom showed that hesitancy of will I be able to interact with these people that are different from me, um, you know. And and the answer is is they've realized they can, and they're empowered by it and uh and it's been hugely successful. And everybody gets along and drink some beer and tells their story and and has a good old time. Yah. We've we've seen have pleasant see from our whole industry too. In the last years. And I were talking about this. We'd go to meetings and start talking about targeting the food focused individuals, and you know, we'd get some eye rolls and things like that, and then all of a sudden Wall Street Journal happens and now everybody's talking about it. So it's it's things like that that are gonna push the needle. I was in the airport coming back from the Archery Trade Association meeting and UM Trade Show and Louisville, Kentucky, and that was shortly after that article came out. And at five am, I'm in the line for Starbucks getting some coffee before I catch my flight, and I let this couple go in front of me that we're headed to Antigua, I think. And we started talking and they were asking, you know, what I was doing there, and I told him when I did for work, and the gentleman popped up and he was like, you know, hunting is actually declining and that's a big problem because it supports the majority of conservation in this country. And I was like, did you read the Wall Street Journal? And he goes, yeah, how do you know. So just the impact of articles like that on the Jim Republic are unreal and potentially generating interest, you know. Yeah, So I mean that front Um, the Wall Street Journal did an article on CWD, another big focus to KEDI UM a couple of weeks later, and so I was, I was speaking to the writers and they wouldn't give me exact numbers, but you know, that Wall Street Journal article was trending on Apple News four or five days later. Um it got picked up from some other news sources, but he told me it had a hundred times their typical page views for an article. And to me, that just shows that there's so many people out there that are interested. I don't know if they'll ever participate, but this is an interesting topic for people. Maybe it's that primal. Maybe it's that all of us have this natural desire or interest. But I mean, for for some article about crossbow, you know, and and a few hips to is going hunting to make the cover of the Wall Street Journal shocked us and UM, and it really did give an opportunity to kind of paint hunting in a different light. And we've gotten tons of you know, calls and emails and and and some of us fortunate, some of us unfortunate because it shows that people don't consider hunting in this light, even current Hunters and of course you know the flat that I've seen. I read all the comments, but current Hunters maybe our biggest critic in some regards, and we're getting a lot of the anti cross bowing across the bow sentiment across the bowing, and of course to keep the uppies in the city's kind of thing. But you know, from a whole I think you know, it was kind of enlightening and inspiring that it's it's something that people want to talk about or read about. Jim In. There are a few things that will piss me off as much as seeing someone try to talk badly about some like this who might want to give it a shot because there are quote unquote hipster something you do see these comments like keep them in the city, or these guys like to come out here with their plaid shirts and they're big beards and pretend they're big bad hunters. Now, well they'll never be real, like I am, Like, come on, that's that stuff. So it's not helping at all. If if you want to feel good about yourself and try to prove that you're more legitimate than someone who wants to give this thing a try and Um, that's how you're gonna make yourself feel good about yourself. Great, but I have no interest in you being a part of what we're trying to do here. That is is so self defeating and discouraging to see. Fortunately, that's probably just a a vocal minority who is going to be negative about just about anything. And um, I know that the vast majority of folks I think can understand what you guys are getting at here and and the the overwhelmingly positive impact this kind of thing can have. Something worth noting, I think is the fact that you guys are tapping into and focusing on this adult demographic. There has been a lot of talk in previous Are Three efforts about trying to get kids involved in hunting, which of course is a great thing. Um, but I think there have been some studies or some theories around the fact that targeting adults is more effective for long term recruitment. Is is that right? Remembering this correctly? Isn't it something along the lines the fact that the adults just simply have the means and the ability to to keep up with hunting versus taking a kid out once and unless they have someone who can continues taking them, taking them, taking them they drop off. Is there something to back that up? Yeah, there's there's definitely something to back that up. Youth programs for hunting are worthless. But hold on, let me finish my statement here. I gotta finishing everybody off before I get done. Seriously that they are, and it's because if you do a quote un youth program for hunting and you teach a kid how to hunt, that doesn't do any good unless you teach their parents how to hunt as well, because they will have no one to take them back out, unless you, as the mentor, are going to take them every time they want to go hunting and make them continue along this process and help them along. Which if you're going to do that, that's great, but that's not how the youth programs go. So when you do a youth program and you don't teach the adults so you don't have it as a family program, then you have a bunch of kids that have a great experience one weekend and then they can never continue to do it again until they're out on their own. When you do an adult program, you are teaching people that have authority in their own lives. So even if they came from an anti hunting family, which a lot of these people did, anti hunting or anti gun families. I mean, they grew up in a place where their parents would have never let them do this as a child. And now they're adults and they're making their own decisions and they decided to do this. They have transportation, they have potentially discretionary income, you know, funding to use for outside activities, and then they also have you know that one of the most important things bringing it back to the traditional process that we talked about how you and I started hunting. They might already have kids, or they're gonna have kids one day at their own most likely, and they're going to teach those kids how to hunt through that natural, time intensive process. So what we've seen with the youth programs from over foreigned programs looked at nationally is that the majority of youth programs in this country where the kids of the existing base of hunters. So it was this one. You have this community that's marketing to party hunters about these programs, and then you know, whoever it is is seeing a great opportunity to get their kids on a free hunt, you know, and that's just that's just kind of how things go, or at least their kids from hunting communities and hunting cultures where they were going to have that opportunity. Regardless, they're not really tapping into any new audiences that we're staying within that same five bubble. I mean, I I helped out with a youth hunt. When I first started, I was guiding this turkey hunt, and luckily this program involved the parent as well, so it was better in that respect because we're teaching the parent as well. It was still a youth focus. And this kid whips out his cell phone and starts showing me what he killed in New Zealand the week before. How like, what am I doing? So I stand by my youth programs are worthless statement. Hank and Takeaway disagree. I would absolutely agree that youth are the least efficient audience that we could take hunting. And our goal is to create hunters, to create license buyers. That has to be the goal of our programs. You know, that's the goal of our three UM and we've traditionally run a lot of hard string programs UM you know that focus on youth and military and UM you know, handicap and while many of them were good. Um, you know, they aren't moving the needle. And um, you know we accumate. We've run a lot of youth hunts that wouldn't agree we're worthless because we we were very diligent, just like in field the Fork that we selected youth from non hunting backgrounds. Um. But again, you know, it can be hard to find good candidates because just like we talked about at the beginning, you know, these hunters don't know non hunters quote unquote. UM, So yeah, focusing on adults is a much better use of our time. We talked about the bubble earlier. You know, the baby boomers are aging out of the sport. We're gonna lose another a couple of the percent of participation if nothing happened. We don't have fifteen or twenty years for Johnny to get out of college and become a license buyer. Again, we need to be looking at who can go hunting the next weekend, who can purchase the license, and we're seeing that in the program. We had one gentleman, Edwin, who purchased twenty five one day license for the state of Georgia the first year we took him hunting. He also put two or three deer in his freezer at the u g A four deer at the u g A Disease Lab. He works at UM and send an email on the list serve and said, have at it. Here's there's venicine. And the freezer ended up mentoring five new hunters that year once he shared his venicine and made these connections. And so you can see this, you know, domino effector you know instant uh, instant rewards, Like this guy is going out and he's mentoring his friends. He shared in his medicine, he's telling his story. He's now in two years harvest attend deer and taking ten new hunters of field. UM and and we're working on some videos so you'll meet Edwin Um in the coming months. But UM, you know he's not the only one. UM and we're seeing this. But you know, the shocker to me during you know, the whole program is you know, they come in and and to the education part, they want to learn about the apology of it is Charleston's reference a few times, and that's because they know that they're going back to their peer group and they're gonna tell them about it, and they they want to be able to defend their actions and so they're very much concerned about the ecological aspect of hunting, which shocked me. Um, you know, I was thinking, oh, we're here for the food. But they're going back to you know, their peers, and they're telling that story and they're becoming an advocate for hunting and ambassador for hunting and entirely new circles and demographics and um, you know, they're referring their friends. The next year we have you know, we we have people on waiting list now for Athens um. But you know, people have very very different backgrounds. All Um. You know, Edwin told me the other day that we're making him poor because he's buying hunting gear, which we can all right too, and you know he's it called him. You know, he's full born now and that would not happen with you obviously. Well, you guys have obviously tapped into something here, an opportunity that is available and and seems to be you know, leading to the results that we need to see given all the trends. Uh So it's a proven model, but it does seem to be. The question is how do we scale it? How do we take what you guys have have created and tapped into im proven to be a successful way of of bringing new hunters in the fold. How do we actually get that out there to the rest of the folks, Because as what you're doing is awesome, but it's you know, eight hunters a year, fifteen hunters a year. How can we get to the point where the tens of thousands of folks listening to this and the millions of other hunters out there that hopefully will be UM presented with ideas like this, how do we start taking some of these things into into action? Put these things into action, um. Because if we could all participate in something of this and all of us have a hand in bringing a new hunter into the fold each year, or each community bringing a new fifteen in a year, UM, then we are making a really big, significant difference. So my my question, I want to post you in two parts. I would like to know how you would propose we do this on an individual level. So how could each one of us, UM take some of these things into account on a on an individual level with a mentorship, maybe a one on one type thing. Or Part number two would be if someone listening loves what you're doing, with Field of Fork and wants to start a Field the Fork operation in their community. How do we do that? That's my part one and part two questions. Feel free to take with it, to take it wherever you want, all right, So you know we've we've long said that, you know, in a short term basis, you know, an organized program is hard to get to move the needle, and it all comes down to scalability. But um, you know, individual hunters can move this needle, as we spoke earlier instantly tomorrow this season, and we need all hunters to to understand it's their duty. Uh, it's it's their duty for the future of hunting, for the sake of you know, future generations and and the habitat and wildlife that they love, that they need to mentor a new hunter each year. And if we all did that, you know, game over. You say that an organized program is hard to move the needle, but then you know, all of a sudden, you're on the cover Wall Street Journal and you you made a much larger impact than the thirty three participants that have gone through the program. And happens georgan three years. But um, you know, filled the pork is scalable. I think you could replicate Field the Ports throughout the country, and so last year we set a goal to try to do that, and so we we took Field the Fork to eight new states, um you know, from your home state of Michigan. For example, we ran a Field the Fork at the Tip of the Mid Branch Mike Wolf and we partnered on the already existing Learned a Hunt in uh in Michigan with n W t F and Steve Sharp, and We're going to continue to do that. I've always instructed my colleagues to partner with existing programs that we can help to evolve before we go out and create another one, you know. So so that is our first push. If there is an existing learning hunt program, should try to evolve it to you know, use the filled the Port model. But where they don't exist, we've been replicating the model. We've created standardized curriculum, sample agendas. We're working on a couple of videos right now that will give a good picture of Field the Fork and a lot of the participant um point of view, and I think they will be very beneficial for showing it. You can go to qum a dot com slash Field the Fork and see our written summaries and some old videos, but we want to do everything we can to help replicate Field the Porks around the country, and so we're trying to inspire our q you May branches as well as anybody who would be interested in hosting a Field the Fork to contact me. My email is on key you May I can. I can tell it to you right now. It's all you know, all of the all the summaries of the Field the Pork program, which are all online, so you can find it there. But um we understand it as we replicate it. You know, each model will look a little different. So um I kind of took it under uh my wing to try to test some of these different replications around the country. Last year, so I flew to New Hampshire and hosted a field to Fork for industry. We had to cap it at twenty four because we had to actually host a hunter education day, but we hosted twenty four employees of Ruger and six Hour, both American firearm manufacturers from New Hampshire and Vermont, and we partnered them with qum A members from the KEYMA New Hampshire branch or First New Hampshire Branch, and we did kind of an organized education which included hunter education because there was no apprentice license and no online hunter education, so just a quick belief at a major hurdle that's keeping us from creating new hunters in those states. But we we ran a very successful program. Um you know, they they paired up, they had a very short season. You know, down south were very fortunate to have these long seasons, long firearms seasons. It's a little bit easier to inspire people to in tour I field. But also went to Texas and partnered with v h A and we hosted a destination filled to Fork where it was just three days at a ranch in Texas, and um, well, I wouldn't want to take somebody from New Hampshire and sent him down to Texas to teach him to deer hunt. You know, that was applicable for residents of Texas, so we only took you know, in state people who were first time hunters that wanted to hunt for me. And and as Charles mentioned, we do preselection surveys so we make sure we're getting the candidates that fits, you know, fifth the bill, and then we're doing posts, events, surveys and a survey a year later to really check up on ourselves and gather the data. But um, you know, we'll have filled the forks in at least ten states this year, probably more. Gotten a lot of emails from people wanting to host build the forks, um in states the Q MAY traditionally doesn't cover, and we're not gonna abandon those. Uh. Acramento, California seems to be like number one place to host the field the Fork. I got more emails from Sacramento, California than anywhere from the article, And UM, you know we're not going to abandon California. California is just getting on board, writing an our three plan, hiring a state coordinator. So we're gonna do what we can to help them to hopefully host field the Forks in California. But UM, you know, we're trying to partner with anybody interested. I know UH in Michigan again, we're gonna do one this year, partnering with b h A. UM, so we're expanding them in the states that we expanded to last year and uh and then hope to gain a few more. But um, we're here to help. We're working. Uh. We got a grant from NSSF to help with some of the replication materials and some of the videos that will be released. We're working with the Archery Trade Association UM, you know, to to help standard some of the curriculums and push their members, which are industry manufacturers, to host filled the forks UM. You know, really a lot of people see it as a viable way too to actually create you know, lasting hunters and so um. You know, we've hosted a filled to pork internally pretty much at qtm A because you know, I had probleagues asking me, hey, what are you doing up there after work? You know I'd be interested in that, So we hosted employees. So K may but I guarantee anybody listening if you make it a concerted effort to share a little vinincent or tell a story or ask around. You interact with people all day every day that are interested in hunting, that do not hunt, that have never been invited, and you shouldn't make it your mission to take somebody new this year and do do it the right way. Put in the time, teach them what they need to know on the front end, take them to the range, get them proficient, you know, teach them and try to do your bet to create a new hunter and uh, it may be your must rewarding hunt this coming season and it will be the most beneficial hunt for the future of hunting. Spot On, Charles, did you would you add anything on that front? That was pretty passionate. I don't know if I want to follow that up, but basically, just just take new people hunting. You might be surprised. I mean, at the very least, just mentor somebody new each year. You know, pick somebody, has somebody at your office, one of your friends, your neighbor, or whoever, and ask him to go, honey, you can you can take him deer running, you can just take him on a squirrel on or a dog hunt or whatever it might be. Just get him out there and have some fun. And you're probably gonna be surprised with how much fun it actually is to teach somebody. I mean it it can get to the point where it's it's more fun to watch them at success than it is to do it yourself. I mean, we hade and mentor named David Kidd that came through the program and served as a mentor for the past few years that he was like, these participants are way more interesting than the people in my hunting club. I should keep them all out and invite all these people who come off. You know, it's so whether you do it on your own, or you want to start a field of fork so you contact Hank. You know, it's just a good time with the field of fork. Food's involved. You know, we all drink beer afterwards and pair wine with the meals and everything. It's just it's a lot of fun, and it's fun to get to know people, um that might have different views than you and be able to explain things a little bit better in ways that you haven't thought about it before because you've been so ingrained and hunting your entire life. Yeah, I will say from my own personal organized program ahead, I was just gonna say, the organized program really the best part about it, other than the community phil and this social support, which is obviously what we've decided a key to creating a honor is that social support. UM. It puts a date on your calendar. It's easy to say you're gonna do something, but it's it's harder to follow through. And the organized hunt the value of it is we hope we get a deer and we can break it down and show them and it. But it's set that date on that calendar and it starts the process. And that's really the value is you know, set a date, get it done. But that's that's the value of the program, uh is it just it holds everybody to it. We're all part of this and we don't want to let down our our buddy or or nobody wants to let down me and Charles hopefully, But it just it puts it on the calendar and gets it started and then they continue to you know, hunt through that year. Yeah, I was just gonna say, kind of echoing some of the things you both mentioned there, you know, from my own personal experience just engaging with non hunters, like in my old dage I've a worked in like the tech industry and a lot of people from the coasts, a lot of urban folks who had no experience hunting or anything like that. But the level of curiosity and the level of kind of fascination with hunting once, you know, once the topic came up, it was very interesting, how interesting, how interesting these people were in it. And then there was a lot of fun for me just to get to be a part of those conversations and share with them what actually happens and everything that goes into it. It It was it was really surprising to a lot of these folks. They had no idea that so much one in hunting, or that there was actually all this management behind it, or or the fact there was even something like bag limits. UM. Just talking about these things was so much fun. Let alone, then getting to take some of these people out into the woods and do things like that, I mean that that is very very fulfilling and and I'm excited about what you guys are doing that the results that you're seeing so far, I think it really is an example that we can all learn from. And and to your point, Hank, then organized model using a framework like what you guys have built with Field of Fork, I think gives us an opportunity to scale something like this UM Because yeah, it's easy to say I want to enter more people, Yeah I want to do these things, but following through on it, actually acting on it's a whole different story. UM. I think by by putting some organization around it and then having you know, some of the hard things taken out of the equation by way of the fact that you guys have already done the legwork to establish curriculum, to establish some of these frameworks. I think that is what people need, and so I'm pumped about it. I'm really appreciative of what you guys are doing, and I want to make sure that we make this as easy as possible for people that are intrigued and excited by this to take action. So, hank Um, as risky as this might be, can you give us that email address right now that people can reach out to you at and then exactly where on the website can they find more of these resources? Kind of I want to make sure if someone right now wants to start a field to fork um, I want to give them step one and step two exactly what to do right now when they get done listening. What what would that be? So all information is at qum a dot com flash f t F F t F and my email is h F O R E S t R at qt m A dot com, h Forster at kum a dot com. Um reach out to me. I'm here to answer any questions, whether here somebody who would like to participate in the Field the Fork or um hosts of Field the Fork just reach out to me. But again. QUM dot com slash f t F has all the summaries of the three years and that F and some summaries of some of the other programs UM and then some of the news and and another podcasters too, and and it thinks we've done on until the fork. But you can find all the information compiled there. Excellent. All right, Well to all you guys and girls listening, light Hank up hit about take advantage of this great resource that that Hank and Charles are putting together for us all to uh to do some really good positive things out there in the world, because this stuff really matters. It really really does. If we want to keep hunting as a is a part of our lives moving forward for decades to come, this kind of work is necessary. And UM, I'm really excited to see what we can do with with what you guys are putting out there. So Hank and Charles Man, thank you for doing this and thanks for taking the time to chat about him. Hey, thanks for having us. Yes, thank you, mart And UH, I think with that we'll wrap it up. Hank and Charles always feel free, uh if you want to hop back on the show sometime and talk about how the next couple of years worth of feel the Fork events have gone. Would love to would love to keep this conversation going, absolutely, and we got we got more in store, so yeah, hopefully they'll be more available for them in common years. Sounds good and that is a rap. So thank you for tuning into this one, Thanks for listening here about what, as we've said over and over, is a very important issue. My my big hole been takeaway from this. I'm not gonna ask for anything else today other than please try to take someone new hunting this year. You know, take the things that Charles and Hank talked about, put them into action. I'm going to do my best to do the same thing this year. Let's all do a little something positive this season and hopefully it's gonna help us all in the long run. So with that, I will thank you all for listening. I will thank you for being a part of this community. You guys are the best. And until next time, stay wired to Hunt.