00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number to thirty one of The Hunting Collective. I've been O'Brien today. I am in the Meat Eater offices, Bozeman, Montana. I'm joining with our friend Ryan Callahan for another appearance on the podcast. Before we get started, I would note that, UM, you are now going to find all the Hunting Collective content, all the podcasts, all the articles, all the things that we do here on the meat eater dot com. Uh. That's where we'll live for the longer term as we fold the Hunting Collective into the network that we've announced last week in the company that we're calling Meat Eater Incorporated. And that's why, UM, one of the better guests we could have on to talk through some of that, talk through some other awesome topics in that of first lights pr in Communication Director believe that's his title, Ryan Callahan. So enjoy episode number one. Brian Callahan. I'm doing really well. How are you doing? I'm doing really well too. We're here in the Bozeman, Montana. Yeah, beautiful Bosi Angelis Los Angeles. I as a newbie to the state in the town, I have to figure out the lingo, the proper you know the proper lingo. I told you I was hanging out with my grandpa last night, um, and we were talking about Bozeman and h He's like, yeah, you know, I went over there and spent a few days hanging out with my dad worked for Gallatin County for a short time. And uh and he's like yeah. He's like, I saw five like really nice little sports car convertibles with these women in them that or like blonde. And he could tell that they had like some upgrades. And he didn't say upgrades, but you can fill in the lank there and and and his takeaway was, you know, they were they looked really comfortable being there, as in, these aren't Montana people, and they're comfortable there, So that means that they're living there. And that's like they seem to be taken up steak. They doesn't even stake some land out for themselves. And he was like, so they're yeah. He's like, don't don't live in bows. But he's like places gone to hill. Well, Listen, hipsters have a manifest destiny that is not that goes unchallenged when they want to live in your place. They're coming, dude, and there's nothing you can do about new age squatters. Yeah, pioneering. It's really the pioneering of the kimbucha bar because I found here. So yes, I mean we are in the guts really, I mean I would I would describe it as the guts of the New Meat Eater Incorporated office. Uh, and yes, Steve Ronell is just well, I don't know how they're pilfering items. Uh, this is the brand new gut. Help Yanni's making sticking his tongue out. It's real, it's very it's pretty pretty funny. It's pretty entertaining here. But yeah, this is the guts. I mean we literally just walked into it and like pick some tables up and put them down, and uh, it's brand brand new. So what what are you thinking? Like this sub potential, this this office space? Yeah, you know, and I mean it's a little built out for my taste. You know, I like to tear things down to the studs and go from there. But that's why I'm asking, because I know you are an expert in Yeah. No, it's it's cool. Yeah, you got like like the metal on um metal and concrete. That's suff works for me pretty well. Yeah, heart break it is but you know, hopefully by now if you're listening to this, that you've heard about meeting and incorporated as a thing. Um, you know about meat eatther TV and Steve Ronella and of course that's why Cal's around, because he's a meat either guy. In fact, we were saying that at lunch of days, like I've heard Steve Ronella described as the first leg guy and I've heard you described it as a meat eater guy, and of course vice versa. I love your show and I always I'm always like, well, hey, there's a lot of people that work on that show that do a really good job and it's hard, and I'm not one of them. So I just show up try to look good. Yeah. Yeah, man, So I need to ask you what everybody asked me, Um, what is meat Eater inc? Yeah? Yeah, I mean two podcasts ago I talked about like why we're doing it, but I don't feel like, uh, what it is is answered so much in the why we're doing it? Right, because, um, you and I share why, like we both you know, we're both on the board for b h A. We both just kind of feel the same way about certain things, not all things, but certain things that are relatively important to our lives, and so the why it was kind of been discussed and but the what is very much to be determined. I would say, like we all have way talking about earlier. I mean, we have these titles, and they have a building, we have all this space, but like it doesn't really mean anything because we've done relatively nothing, um to this point. But we're gonna be a media company, uh, And we're gonna be a media company that does a lot of things including Meat Eater TV and the Mediator brand and and all that stuff, including the Hunting Collective and the Hunting Collective brand and all the stuff that comes with it currently and hopefully as it grows, um. But we're also gonna just be something a little bit different. Like I feel personally having been in the media world for a while, and you're you certainly have pr in your title for First Light that there are some holes in the boat when it comes to how we produce media for hunting, fishing, conservation, all of it. UM. Not to say there's not a bunch of good stuff happening, but I feel like there are some expressed holes in our the tactic that we take to talk both to the outside world, but also to ourselves, like how UM media is produced for hunters and in hunting specifically. So we're gonna be a media company that tries to um always start with our ethos and our why, but then looks to be innovative and do stuff different and create content in ways that's engaging that may be not there right now. UM around a lot of things, but particularly culinary world where Steve comes from, um, you know, and it's connected to and conservation world, which you have a lot to do with it, as as I do UM in my history of my presence. So um, it's a hard thing to nail down. This doesn't have like a one sentence description, but um at it's at its core, it's just a bunch of people that believe the same thing. Man decided this was the best thing to do with their lives, and you guys are gonna be producing media. He has a media company, so that uh is uh TV show or shows? Yeah, hopefully shows. I would hope. I mean, you know, if if if we could have a media company in the very short term, if our our entire company could be as successful as the meat Eater company or you know, the media brand has been at this point, we'd be we'd be happy. In the very longer term, we would like to have ten different brands that look like meat Eater, that Metator, has books that Steve does, it has TV shows, it has podcasts as live events. We would like to have a myriad of those things across a bunch of different platforms and in a bunch of different ways, you know, different voices, different subject matter, you know, fly fishing, um or even looking at foraging. We're looking at of course, we're looking at you know, pike and walleye and mountain hunting and waterfowl hunting and you know, small game whatever we can get to. UM. And so yeah, man, we'd like to create different types those different types of experiences across a bunch of subject matters with a bunch of different voices that a lot of folks that have been heard from some that haven't. We'll have some folks that will sign on and we'll hope to help them discover their voice and get people excited about who they are that maybe nobody knows about right now. UM. So that's also cool, man, you know well as well as I do. It's a pretty um unique position to be in to be able to like take someone that you think has the power to you know, give people respective and change their minds and give them platform, and it's like go for it, kick at go do it. So, by the way, everybody should be paying attention to this. To this person, Yeah, so that's exciting. But for me, as somebody who cares about the hunting industry, this is just a new thing that has um has the power to change some things. I think. Yeah. Cool. And and in your perspective, like what was like the number one change that item that that's on your hit list? Yeah, well I think um, And there's a lot, there's a lot, But I think the first one is creating content for the audience only you know we I've said this a million times internally here, but if anyone comes in and starts creating content around motivations that are um external to the audience, the folks that we're talking to and and that are investing in our content, then you're out, Like I will kick you out, I will walk you out the door. Um. Everybody can think of amples, and not only the hunting, hunting, fishing space, but in just general media where you know, not everybody expressly cares about the audience. In fact, most don't UM. Most care about the audience tuning in so they get their numbers, so they make their money. But there's an express you know, expressive I care about you being a smarter person, being more intelligent. That makes us all better. Hence, you know, rising side lifts all boats and so as somebody who has a journalism degree and wants to change the thing, that's the main thing I want to change UM is that will listen to our audience and and and be here for them rather than for advertisers or for some UM power that be somewhere else. So I certainly have heard some some talk about that we might be UM might have a certain motivation, like this company might have been formed for a certain reason. And I'll tell you it's the reason we've expressly stated is the reason why we're doing it's because we care about uh. We we think the outdoors are sacred place. You care about the natural world. We think it makes us all better and we want to have better interactions with it. And like that's we said that. Steve said it, I've said it, We've all said it. We sat in the room just like this one and came up with it like a month ago, and that was a cool like, that was a cool experience. Yeah, to sit in the room with with people I respect and trade a bunch of ideas and try to come to us why that that's Uh, it was important to us. And I think after we made the announcement, it's the first time I've ever seen in my that we had like positive reaction to it. The internet was broken that day. Yeah, the assholes forgot to show up. They'll get to it eventually. I mean, let's let's be honest. But yeah, trade offs. Right. So, uh, you're no longer yet, you're no longer in Texas, um, and you have been posting up all fore it's hunting pictures. So what have you been doing? Yeah? I like how we reverse interview. I like, yes, I love it. Um. What I've been doing is building my plan, building this thing, you know. Um No, I mean when it when you know folks that follow people in the hunting interest that hunt a lot, it starts to become this. Uh. It's kind of the thing you do. Right, you stay home for three weeks and you start to think, WHOA al Right, if I not accomplished anything, I'm not off somewhere else. Um So I pretty early on and like no Wing, I was gonna leave where I was and come to Montana, and knowing that we were gonna be building a company that I felt was pretty substantial. And I feel that, you know, other than Steve and and some other folks, I feel a grand amount of ownership and and responsibility and how it goes, and that it goes well, it goes right. So I sat down with my wife and I said, you know, I think it's probably better that as we move and we're building a house here in Montana, we're doing all these things, we're building a company that you know, those things come first. I'm always a hunter and always a traveling some bitch. But but in the you know, over this a couple of months this fall, it's it's been focused on those things, which as important as anything for our future. And but I have a clear intention to hunt the West over the next thirty years like a madman. So I'm just giving it a break, giving a little breather. It's uh like a warming shop. It's like it's just like I don't want I'm just you know, I'm not even gonna diep my toe in I'll look at it for a while and just determine which deep end of the bull I'm diving into. So I know that too. And moving out west has always been something I thought about, never thought it would happen. So there's a little bit of a is this real? Can I hunt elk over? There? Really just a trick? So I know you have a differspect of living in Montana, are growing up in Montana living in Idaho. But for me, it's very much like this looking around, like, Okay, I gotta take some time to bringthe this in um before I just before it's like mine kind of in some weird way. Oh man. Yeah, the diversity of the state is is just so wild, so wild. Yeah, And I got all like I got all the meat i'd ever need, Like I got meat. I felt, you know, I shot an access to here when you shot access to here together, and I felt like I brought that home, and I was like, I love access to here. And I started like hammering that ship to the top of my freezer, like there's no room for it. And we moved here. I thought, you know, they're okay, I should take some time to eat something that's clear it out. Yeah, to rotate the freezer. You're killing at a breakneck pace, and that's I felt a little bit in like that experience for me is a little bit like that's a little bit inappropriate if you have all the meat you need like it should. I I I did not shoot a elk with my bow this year, which is the first time in a long time. And I was like, I passed up a bowl the second day of the season, and I I was like, oh man, I can't believe I did that, but then passed up another one, passed up another one, and um, and that was like a huge part of like the calming voice in my head was like I was thinking about the freezer at home, and I'm like, I'm really going to rotate that thing this year, Like I'm I'm gonna eat everything in there and start fresh, um, and I only need an X amount. And there there's folks that I always give me to that that truly wanted um and so that they'll have to experiment with some different cuts this year. But yeah, they're gonna do a lot of top round cooking this year. Yeah, so you know, um, yeah, it's kind of kind of saying I've been out a lot and having fun as you know. But it's there were highway levels of anxiety. Hi. Hi anxiety if you're really gonna not do that, I high lovels anxiety, like looking at the instagrams and seeing all the people hunting, because when it becomes like you're like we've talked like you're I have this unwillingness to do anything that wouldn't forward my hunting life. Like I have this like if somebody said, you know what here man, two million bucks. We're gonna pay you there two million bucks a year, and you're gonna come work for the New York Times and you're gonna be like the you know, editor in chief the New York Time. I'll be like, listen, man, that's a lot of money. But no, it's like no, because so that it gives me silence, Like it gives me silace in in an intangible sense that I know I'm moving to Montana where my hunting opportunities are going to explode, you know, as as just like being able to take my young son and take him around locally and hunting fish and do those things like That's so I have that my mind. But the last couple of months watching other people go run around and and it gives you some perspective and like when you're in it, because last year, the year before that, and probably the last eight years, I didn't go two weeks at home during September, October, November, December, and so this time I just I just went two and a half months without doing much. And so it gives you a little bit of perspective of maybe what it seems like when you're not you know, when you're just armchairing it. Yeah, so I'm sure you could pull it up, but I think you know, your average hunter is in the field, not even a full we kill. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, we always talk about fourteen million or ten million with the number that the number is that's an imperfect number anyway, But there there's this projection. We project this like a hunter is someone who just fucking hunts all the time. And so I think there's a lot of something always dies. Yeah, something always dies. And that's why I've always appreciated you and appreciated Steve and like the connected to that, because there's this there's other appreciations that, there's other priorities that go along with the hunting um. But you just enjoy spending time outside. You don't enjoy, like overly enjoyed or fetishize the killing of a giant thing like that'll come, but it's not and it's part of the presentation, but it's not a Yeah, it's not overly expounded upon, like I killed a big thing. Who it's like A killed a big thing that happened to be the end of the great ten days in the wilderness. Yeah, then I ate then I ate it, and then they've just happened to be big, you know. Yeah, that's what it was. Man. I um found a couple of big bowls this year and chased him. It was it was super fun. And like I said that, typically like I hunt a broadside elk, and that is it. It may have antlers that may not um, and that's a good that's like a T shirt. I hunt broadside. That's it, period. Man, give me a broadside elk and um, because then I've always felt like, Okay, that meat is in the freezer. There's a huge return rent elks a big animal, um. And once that's in the freezer, then it doesn't matter if I miss or break a leg, like it's in there. And and but then I'm I'm basically free to hunt after that kind of sounds weird, but I'm like elk is on the grocery list. It gets put in the freezer, and then when that is done, then I'm actually hunting and and purely going out with the main purpose of just hunting. And what I know, We've talked about it before, but you know the trigger poll part ends you're hunting, Yeah, that's that's when hunting stops. And so typically like, yeah, I don't touch that trigger again. Uh, you know, for the rest of the year sometimes right, so um, but yeah, man, I got a lot of nights in the woods, just like a lot of it was Idaho was hot and clear the whole time and didn't bring a tent until I remember I was texting you and You're like, well, I'm just gonna hunt. I run out of food and I'll be back yes, yeah, yeah man. And it's so like I just I feel so relaxed and so comfortable when I hunt that way, because like I know, I have everything I need and it's like I just get to go and I get to make there's no decision of like, well I gotta find there's not even the decision of being like, well, I got to find a big enough spot for my tent. It's like, here's an elk bed, blow up my airm mattress and pass out for the night. Yeah, man, And it's and it's just like so simple that it is addictive. So I here's a question something I always think about and I've said maybe said in the past, like do you change the way you think about hunting every year? Oh? You know, I think I do. Yeah, if I was, if I was honest, I do. I do for sure, even this year, not having not hunted as much well ship over the last two months. I had a plenty in the first half of the year, but like having to take us some time off anyway, Um, you feel like is there moments of reflection or is it just like every year you see all a different chapter in the book. Maybe I'm gonna, you know, present this chapter differently or you know, yeah, I mean I think I think it. Uh, well, like yeah, this year, Um, instead of being like, boy, I gotta get you know, the last of this animal uh in the cooler and get it up and drop it off with my dad because he's somebody who always wants at least half an elk um, so I can make room for the elk that I just got um instead of or you know, taking it to folks at the office or whoever, instead of having that mine because I know I'm going to get an elk. I was like, I'm just not going to shoot it now. And I kept calling him in and messing with him, uh, maybe even purposely educating some so sobody else who I didn't feel h had had quite earned it, like talking to the elk, like, listen, I know you came all this way in, but we had to talk. Yeah, and you know, I I know I told you about this, but I called in my closest ever elk and uh and that never would have happened because I would have shot the thing three or four different times um before he even came in. But he literally I didn't know. This was in this area where these big balls were hanging out, and I could hear this ball raking a tree, and I knew it wasn't like the big bulk because when the big bull was raking a tree, it literally sounded like a four by four getting whacked against a tree, Like it was like walk. It was all. It was very similar to like hearing a moose like whack of tree and sound off um, and so I knew it was an apple, but I needed to put eyes on it. And so I snuck in there and cow called a couple of times and just hung out and eventually, you know, raghorn bull comes walking over the hill and I'm like, oh, that's cool and at an arrow knocked right like I was ready, um, But then he just kind of kind of kept coming and then turned and got on the same trail that I was on, and he you know, I was looking for that cow and there's a tree across the trail and he's at like seven yards now and I'm like, okay, well he's gonna stop at the tree, um. And then he gets up to the tree and as like the full horse like four footed leap over the tree and he lands basically like three yards. I'm like, whoa, that's wild. And I'm thinking, are you gonna be like a Yellowstone tourist and like wind up skewered by this ball because we don't think about that enough. Man, is a dangerous situation. It is a dangerous situation. One wrong move and you're freaking toast. Freak out and go forward instead of backwards and a gruesome ass way too. Yeah, and I was like, you know, A big part of that that led me down this decision path was I came up with like this. All I can describe it as is like this getting older malady. Like I hadn't been out, hadn't been out hammering, uh what and training? Uh? And I hadn't even gotten on my freaking mountain bike at all. And I was busting butt on the house and trying to get it done and trying to get I had it first light enough to feel good about being outside and uh. And yeah, we did a monster hike opening day of the season. Uh, grab my overnight gear. That night, I went back out another monster hike, and man, I was I was pretty crippled on this foot thing. And and then I'm like boy. And then you compound that by getting skewered in the guts by some Raghorn bull Like there's no way I'm getting out of here. Um, but this bowl just kept walking and yeah, so part of me is like, you better do something, and then the other part of me is like the word just see how close he comes. And yeah, So twenty nine the bull came in twenty that's close. That is that closer to me than you? Yes, we're probably fifty inches apart. And I had my arrow on on the string right and he came in and sniffed the odd head, and you could like I've never been that close to an elk obviously, And and he came in and sniffed the broad head, and I just remember like staring at his forehead being like, boy, this must be a really good year for horn growth, because this thing's head is so tiny. I bet it's normally a spike on normal year it's but it's probably a spike. And and you could just see like the facial expression of like recognition of like, man, I've never seen this before, but it is not right. And then it somehow peeled around without touching me or the arrow and stood broadside there's my broadside elk ah maybe fifteen yards and just stared at me and then and I was waiting for it to bark and blow the area up, and then it just kind of like relaxed completely and then dropped his head and ate and walked off. And I'm like, well, I never would have experienced that, um, And that was a sweet experience, you know, it's not Elk meating the freezer. But yeah, but again, the only family thing you left off the story was well, when I drawback and shot it, Yeah, you know that's one sentence in a freaking you know, a article. Yes, and so that's the beautiful part about that. But yeah, I mean I found like I started doing it. I think like five years ago when I started thinking, all, I'm kind of like in the hunting industry as a professional person, like I'm hunting a lot for my job. Um, it's just taken like a day. I'd never or a moment whenever it hit me to like think about like, holy shit, how am I hunting now that I haven't last year, the year before, the year before that five years ago. When I was a kid, I would have never done some of the stuff I do now, or thought some of them. I'm sure when you were a kid, you would never probably never let an l walk up to Sniffley Broadhead. No. Yeah, So I always try to like think back and recognize those changes and then be you know, super cognizant of each year how I what I do differently? Yeah, man, and just trying to be honest with yourself, right, Like we worked so hard, and it was always on the weekend, um, and we worked so so hard to get one opportunity. It was like if you got one opportunity archery l hunting in the state of Montana, whether you let a narrow fly or not, that was a successful season for Like, that was like a major success. Like the bull was there, had an opportunity and I screwed up or I killed it like that it was all you could and that was kind of a big ask, right, Like that was working really hard, um on the weekends, just like everybody else. And now I try to work really hard and and if I could stay out there for a month, I would stay out there for a month. And in just yeah, I mean the reality is in the opening week of our tree season in Idaho, I hunted more than most people will. Then then the majority of hunters will the entire season. Right, we were talking about that that that's a huge thing. I think that maybe doesn't you know, there's a lot of things about like what we do and who people think we are that that it's helpful I think to the honey industry. But there's part of that that changes. It's changed me to an extent. We were just talking about another point about free hunting gear, and I think it's it's the amount of days hunting and the free hunting ship that I get, you get, and like just we get as part of our thing here. Yeah, And so caution people when they're like, oh man, that's badass, it's like, well, I am actually a catered to individual like I have. It's it's silly. I am a spoiled man. Oh yeah. I mean when I was moving, I was looking at my garage and I was like, come on, like no, this is wrong this yeah right, I mean, so what's more badass? Right? Like being in this position where you get the time, like hey, no, you are going el cunning this week, dedicated week, get out there um and you at least have at your disposal some really solid discounts to get the bass stuff on the marrow, get to um or you know the guys swinging the hammer and dropping his tool belt at five o'clock and driving all night long and yeah, and going out there for all day Saturday because he's got to get back for his kid's birthday on Sunday, typething. You know, It's like I think there's this there's something that happens, and it's a natural these natural things like that. It doesn't make me bad or you bad, or anybody who's in the in in our industry bad um for it. But I've spent the last you know, a bunch of podcasts previous to this one just talking to you know, not even guys. I just did one with a rabbit hunter in Maryland who he's just a regular guy, but he just he's like, buys his brush pants at Gabella's. But he's the best rabbit hunter I've ever met in my life because his perspectives are so different, because he doesn't like he's I just got that one pair of brush pants. He doesn't have boxes of prototype stuff test down things like that. You know, it's people being like, please test these out for us, um And so I think that just changes, you know, me personally. I don't know if anybody cares about my personal thing, but that has changed me. And I've had to like take a few steps back from that and be like, appreciate, be appreciative of the time you spend outside, and appreciative of the things that you're wearing and and the privileges you have around that. Be appreciative of that and then also know that the guy, um, there's a little bit more virtue in the guy that works five days a week and takes his tool belt off, goes on like, yeah, I was that guy, so were you for a very long time, and like there's there's a little bit more virtue. She just like that teeny bit more virtue. Yeah, and and well yeah, and so folks in the positions of like you got sponsors that are willing to pay and chip your butter around the country, and you know, and uh, you know, and I do feel like the days of this happening aren't quite what they used to be. But you know, there was definitely a time where, um, the only media out there was written media, and there are only a few folks worth reading. And those folks got shipped around the world and they were i mean catered to because they needed that article and it sure didn't produce. Some of them are kind of just assholes now because they went through thirty years of being catered to. Yeah, and man, they they if you're going to be in that position, you better recognize, um that you're you're a pretty spoiled cat, So you better better give something back somehow. Somewhere there's a ton of people that do that and do it well and and understand their position, and but it worked hard to get there. So I mean, that's not that you should feel bad about that, but that's something I've been thinking about it, and we talked about we were just before we had recorded talking about like seeing it in other people like I've been I've had it for a while, You've had it for a while, Like seeing somebody just start with a box of gear showing up and just start to realize I could just have that. Could I just that right there? I just take that and then nobody would say thing. I just like that person is now figuring out you know what this is? Yeah, the benefits of always caution, like you know, nothing in life is free and there is a cost associated and um, you you better recognize that. Yeah, yeah, And I think you know, we won't believe at that point because I like it's I think sometimes these conversations just become two people talking and like you think people people really care about. Um, here's another So I'm gonna totally flip. There's no segue at all. I got no segway. But it's something I was thinking about as we're having lunch today, we were having a nice long conversation about public land versus private land. Yeah, yeah, um, in the feeling that as as you know, I feel there's some danger. I don't know, if you've never talked about this, maybe we have a little bit. I feel like there is some there. There's always inherent danger with trends, right and trendiness. Moreover, there is danger was something being cool. When it gets to be cool, people start doing it for inauthentic reasons or talking about it for inauthentic reasons. Um, public lands have kind of started to trend that way, or they it's become a trend to talk about. I feel like a lot of companies are talking about public land, a lot of individuals talking about public land. I love it. I love that all and I would never say don't do it. But I there's always a little drawback to that, which is which is the yeah uh it you may alienate yes folks, so yeah, you and I know a few folks that are private landowners or landowners wouldn't want to say private their landowners and ranchers who feel ah slighted, yes, because they are. They feel like, as we champion, you know, kind of the mystique of public land hunting and the effort it takes to go and do it all on yourself own, and the idealistic link it has to our our nation and what it means to be American, and you know, keep HARKing back to the turn of the century and these important figures. There's not a similar storyline for private lands and ranching and habitat therein. And so there's this perceived undercurrent of of anger or animosity that you've seen a little bit. I've seen a little bit I think kind of has bubbled up in some ways. Yes, it's worth addressing. Yeah, And you know, I think the good argument is, oh, you're a public landowner, what do you actually do for the land? I am a rancher. I have my property and I am out taking care of it to the best of my ability every single day. That's what I do. What are you doing with your public landowner t shirt? I got one on right now. Um, And that argument I absolutely get And I love people. Yeah, like I think everybody who wears that public landowner shirt should be challenged. So, yeah, well, what are you doing for public land? I think I ain't make it happen, because I want that conversation to happen, right and I don't I was even talk the Lantana yesterday from b H and I don't want it to feel like I'm downing the trendiness of public lands. That's what I want, Yes, I want to to to expound upon that and how important it is and continue to beat that drum. And I will always continue like to beat that drum because because I know what it means and what it means to me, So not bagging it, no, but addressing like the negative side and that this this, once it has comes the trend as it has been, then you can start to evaluate the it's effect on our culture and our shared ideas, like and it's having an effect I think a little bit right now that that conversation that isn't positive or productive is when somebody feels like they aren't cool because they're like, well, I'm I am hunting on private land and everybody talks about how cool public lands are, and I think my private land is pretty cool, and so I don't like you guys. We've you The nomenclature of hunting has changed the way we described what things we do has changed to the point where it's like if someone killed an elk, they're like, man killed a good bull. If someone kills a bull in public land, they've now killed a public land bull. Like it has a modifier in front and it does not go anywhere without its public land bull title. No, that's very true and very true. And then that is uh, just part of like the acceptance of this thing. Ah can be a little a little bit tougher, a little bit more, uh, you know, pioneering to just go on the land that that and figured out and do it yourself like that. I mean, the we did everything that we could to get access to private land in Montana grown up. It's there's a grass as always greenery element to it, for sure. Um. But at the same time, you know, I just didn't know it was like, well, I can see across the fence and there's a lot of elk out and not afou fa field, Like how we get over there? Yeah? How do I get over there? Which is probably a way better and more virtuous way to look at that ship anyway, Like where the elk cars we would like to go. I don't give a ship if it's owned by us or that guy. Yeah, I'd like to go over there, and yeah, man. But the thing that makes public lands so challenging and frustrating, like I saw more archery hunters in the woods this year than I ever have in my entire life, and spots where I can be like, well, I'll never see anybody like, oh my god, who is this idiot with a giant backpack? Who is not me? Which is the issue here? Uh you know what I mean. And and that's why the public land deal is a challenge because you're out there with every other public landowner that's in its competition. It makes it tough. Um. And that's you know, that's that's why that little yeah prefect should be on there. Yeah. Yeah, I just noticed that lately, like this year, maybe because I was not in it and I was looking at it, and I was like, there's definitely we've changed the way we described hunting because this this animal that died as a as a modifier as to where how it died, where it died, you know, my public land archery bull um, and the animal doesn't care the animal. So when I was a kid, I remember like we had a organic farm that we had access to hunt. It was you know, the lady said kill every day. You see they jump off the fence to eat my eat my crops, and and that's how I make my money. And so we would go there and we would see tons of deer. I mean, this place is full of deer. It's probably wasn't a big place, maybe five acres something like that. And we would go and kill five six seven deer in a day and we get all our food this lay. It would be happy, it would be great. But then we had public land that was probably forty five minutes from my front door. That was you know, to me at the time, mountains, it was a wild place, creek creek crossings, park, the truck walk for miles, do your thing. And then this private land was very much just like get out of the truck, walk down the trail, sit on the log, shoot the deer. And so without even knowing it as a kid, public land to me was this like adventure situation and private it is the unknown? Is this the unknown? So for me, like I was doing it without even realizing like oh this, we were just like we're gonna go to Green Ridge day Forest. That's where we're going, Like we're just oh man, it's great. You a mountains crow across creeks like other people could be there. It's cool. It's like mysterious. And then you go to this private farming like, well, we walked down the trail and you go past the garden about yards, go down the draw and then sit on that long there. Yeah, and get a deer and get a deer. Yes, And that's how you refer to it. It's my uncle down the road here. I mean that was I was like, yeah, this is grocery shopping, right, and it's great. I mean, and if you want to talk about like the real the hypocrisy here is like, you know, he has deer that live and die on that alfi field and they taste great, and he can harvest one. And I do think in this case harvest is the absolute appropriate plucking it out of the field without really doing anything different in his day. He can step out of the tractor, he can shoot the deer. He can continue on with the tractor. When he gets to where the deer expired, he will then throw it. I'm the tractor in the tracker, so it's a bit of a detour and just continue on. And um, you know, he has told me many many times. He's like, you can have anybody out here as long as they appreciate it. And he appreciates that land like deep in his soul, and it exudes from his eyeballs, like he man like he takes great, great pride. And and he's seen the changes firsthand. He's got his hands dirty every single day. And he's sixty some years old now and maybe even older. I don't know, sorry, Jeffrey. And and and that is that is a real thing. And folks like him, Dad, I hope to god they don't feel slighted so happy about public land. Yeah, and that's what we're when, uh, at lunch to day, you and I Ronella were talking about, like, don't feel just because we say we love public lands doesn't mean we hate private land. And that that we had a particular person I felt that way, you know, that reached out to you and me and almost like separately, but like in the same threat. That's like I on private land, and and nobody's celebrating this. You know, there's no T shirts for this thing, Like okay, well there's reasons for that, but moreover, I don't hate your thing. In fact, I aspire to have a ranch one day if I could, Uh, I would love to. Yeah, you're a lucky sucker, and that's why we don't have to celebrate you. It'd be like it's like the Oscars, like celebrating rich, famous people. We don't need to do that. If you have access, you don't. You're you've already won, like you've won the game at some level. Yeah, at some level. And and it's you know, people aren't helping you celebrate that more than boy, that's a great ball because they don't get that experience either at the vast majority. To go back to the beginning here, like you don't get that many days in the woods, and you know, unless you're really dedicating time to you know, track down those landowners and make sure that they know that you're not some knucklehead that's gonna, yeah, shoot a horse instead of an elk um, then you're probably not gonna waste your one weekend doing that, no, because you only got one weekend to go. So um, it strikes me now that we're going through this that they that idea that you know, I was thinking about homesteading as as you were talking there, like homesteading is part of the was part of the American dream right. It was part of like what people wanted to do. It was part of benifest testing, going west and stake in your ground. It was a big part of it. And that's being used by guys like Mike Lee has this draw to draw people in and convince them that that, you know, the new Homestead Act is what they need to be doing. When that we both at this table. No, that's a veiled attempt two privatize these lands and sell the suckers, which is a sad thing. Like I would celebrate homesteading. I think homesteading is what this country it isn't It is what this country was built upon. Yeah, And there was a reaction to that. That was public lands, that was national forests. That wasn't that the national parks. It was a reaction to like, we're out here staking all this land up. Let's make sure, let's make sure this part is for all of us. M yea. And so it spins it. You know, the reason that private landowners are feeling a little slighted or feeling different from the crowd here as as the crowd grows, public land hunters and folks that will wear the T shirt. Um it opens up like some weird political chasm for for like us against them. It's like red versus blue, private versus public. And that's the nice thing, is it. The public is for everybody. Yeah, so there is no one us versus them. Yeah, it's yeah, you know, if if anything, uh, maybe we've reduced the amount of folks stopping by and knocking on your door on a Sunday. Yeah. One of michaela is trying to convince people that because public land is elitist. Yeah, what he's trying to convince private landers and ranchers and people that fall on the red side of the coin that public land is an elitist principle. Yeah. Yeah, and it Oh, it's just so wrong in so many ways. Yeah. I mean there's a lot of people sleep in parks. Public parks. Doesn't seem real elitist elitists. But yeah, I think that's all kind of uh spun together in this weird gumbo of of honey. Yeah it is. And again, like I so the we were just just did a wyoming antelot hunt um with the couple of the guys from Hush and uh the guy as at Weatherby. Weatherby is now calling themselves whether whether it be three point oh internally, probably shouldn't be telling everybody that. But and it's cool because Adam Weatherby is is CEO, and he's and he's running things, and they're moving to Wyoming. There the whole the corporate office is in Wyoming already, but they're moving the whole manufacturing out of California Wyoming. So when I did a antelope punt together on private land, um, and, oh my god, I had an absolute ball, like just leisurely passing up antelope for truly no reason other than the fact that you could could and some other truck wasn't gonna top over the ridge and whack that thing right. And it was. It was great. It was super super fun, great experience. Um and yeah, and and and that doesn't make me less of a public landowner or pro one thing anti another. Where's incredibility lie? Like what does that even? Like? What does that even mean? Somebody asked me, like, what kind of you know, how do you get your credibilities at hunter? If you're just gonna have private lands because there's an animal over there and you're over here and you go over and you kill it. Yeah, Like that's that's a skill I did, so there there's some chunks of BLM that are landlocked there, and um, I wrote around with the rancher um the whole time and got a ton of bullshitting and which I just loved with an old ranchers, Like, yeah, that's kind of bullshit. There is awesome, awesome, you know, rattling around in the truck and and uh you know, I'm just like, just like I was when I was like twelve, riding around with an old rancher, I was like a question every thirty seconds. Yeah, I'm like, enough about me? What about and that tree right there? And he's like what about He's like, what are you looking for? What do you I'm like, I just want to see more more of the ranch. I just want to keep doing what we're doing. Uh Um. He's like, well, you know, he's like, you know, this is kind of like the average antelope and some of them will get a little bit bigger. But then I'm like, dude, I do not care. I'm like, I just like this, what we're doing right now is what I'm after. This is awesome and we had a great time, and um, there are some chunks of BLM there that are completely land locked, so public land inaccessible public land, which is something I just drives me crazy. And but you know, talking with this rancher about it, he's like, you know, I've tried to do some land swaps with the state because he's like, these things are honestly kind of a pain in my butt. And um, he's like, I tried to do this like three or four times and swap out sections that are yeah public. He's like, you know, and and and swap this stuff out so I don't have the public landing inside the perimeters of the of the other ranch. And and so that was an interesting conversation on one of the weather be guys is like, well, you know, you you probably want to shoot your antelope over there on that chunk of BLM. So since it's public, ain't that like what we're talking about, though, That's exactly what it is. You're probably gonna want for credibility sake. You want to go over there, right, because that's your thing, right, even no that public land is basically private and keep up appearances. And I was just so excited to just be able to get Bones home, which I never do because typically have to leave him on the mountain to save some weight and make stock. I was like, dude, I'm already on hog having and yeah, what I care about in this particular situation is getting not a pile of bones so I can make stock at home. And I haven't eating an antelope and a long time, and I'm pumped about that. And I don't care if it's a six inch buck or a sixteen inch buck um, And I certainly don't care where it's standing, don't care where it staying. I'm just trying to for some reason lately, I'm trying to think about a lot of T shirt ideas. We're start selling t shirts on the podcast. We're not on the podcast, but about it. I think that might be good. Nice one. I don't care where it's staying. I don't care where you're staying. You don't care A shot that six and a half by three hundred. Oh yeah, that's a straight cheetn sun up a bit in it. It's pretty cool. The casing on that thing is enormous. Ye I it was for three years ago. Now, I think I was one of the first guys to get it in like travel abroad with it, are doing anything crazy? We went to New Zealand, and I missed, uh foul dere like three six yards. We were about forty year angle above this foulon deer, and I'm like, well, imnuna have to hold high. You know I had shot you know, I was living in Texas then, so I'm like, there was no ranges past a hundred yards, so I only shot at a hundred yards with this rifle. We go over there, we shooter guns in. I'm doing good out the two hundred we got this go to at this foulon dere like three sixteen yards. I'm like, well, I'm gonna have to hold high because we're gonna have you know, we got we got an angle, steep angle here. And I shot over these things back and then I remember Adam, whether Be or someone at weather Be saying this thing is flat to three hundred yards, and I thought, you're a dummy. Just hold on. So this foulder kers running up this draw and I just crack another round in there and just put right on the shoulder and drop him at probably three or fifty yards. And that's when I realized, oh, you know, Adam is a pretty impressive character. Oh my gosh, he's like he knows their loads. Obviously, and he knows they're guns, but he for everybody shot. Um was like, yeah, you got about ten wind here, and that's coming out of the barrel at about feet per second, so you're gonna want to hold about an inch and a half to the right. You're like, what awesome? Can you come with me on all my house? Like this is awesome? Yes, he comes from a long line of impressive dudes. I can only imagine. You know, I've met his father and never did meet Royal Weatherby, but weather Be's this as impressive of a fella. That's cool. I do have to tell everybody that Ben and I are sitting here on our butts doing this podcast. I got my back to the window and uh watching uh Steven Ronnella Carrie physically move things into the office. He's moving like tables, table boxes. I thought he was yeah y'all. Yeah, he's giving Yanni a piggyback ride. He loves that little fellow, he really likes. Yeah, I have my back to the windows. I haven't been seeing like, I am aware that people are bringing things in, but they must think that we're this is work though, right, Yeah, this is work. Got Steve walking backwards with the meat eater uh ceo uh carrying a table up up some stairs. Yeah, I mean this is a team, team effort. We're all for one, one for all around here. Unless your podcast, somebody gets out to carry this ship. I mean I will eventually carry some stuff, I think, but I don't at this point. I don't think. I don't want to hurt myself or anything. Yeah, I know, it's not like that Brunella walking around in the background sweating it out while we're hamming it up about. It's good for the biggest issues. Um. I like having you on, you know why because uh one of the reasons why. One of the many reasons is because of the Sometimes I get bothered about stuff and I'm not sure how to bring it up on the podcast. Like I get bothered about like I was bothered about the public private land thing. It's just bothering about it, and it is bothering bothers you. You should should feel right to be bothered, because yeah, man, I like, I know so many awesome landowners and laugh a lot in my family and they kick ass and they should be celebrated for that. Yeah, they should be. Yeah, it's just it's hard to celebrate something that a lot of people aren't gonna be able to touch. I think you and I will start a series of podcast where it's just like it'll be called I'm bothered by I like it, and then it just we'll just talk about this ship that bothers us. Currently you're grants, my gears, you guys my gears. Um, here's the one thing, the other thing that bothers me. Um. I don't even know how to really articulate them. And that's why I haven't brought it up to anybody yet. But guiding or the outfitting outfitting guiding is it's a subset about things you've been a guide. Um, So as I look at like as I think about my own hunting and why I'm doing the thing, and and I just read about hunting all the time, and I look at on on social media, and I talked to hunters. I moved to Bosman to be around him and be, you know, be a part of this thing. And and it strikes me that, um, there's a lot of examples of this that outfitting can't help. But be all about the anilers. You can't fucking help it, um, almost just because of the way it's set up the way it's done traditionally. Outfiteling can't help but slide that book of photos across the table, or have its main page on the website of the outfit or be a bunch of dead giant animals. Has to entice the people to come and see the giant animals and kill the giant animals that they've got, And so that's just bothered. That's something that's bothered me. And I've hunted with outfitters and guides my whole life, and I've never met I'm very I've had one or two that I can think that I would never go back with again, that it was a bad experience. They were helpful in my experiencing a place that I didn't know anything about, or learning things, or learning tactics or learning and whatever. I mean. They're helpful in my hunting experience, not harmful. But like the optics of the outfitting game. You've been to s CI you've been to Harrisburg, You've been to all these places I've been to. Like the optics of it is the sales that you know, making it a commodity, and then the selling of the opportunity at a big animal like my dad's doing it currently, is going with outfit in Montana next month, and he was instead of talking about the country, the place, the people he might meet, he was talking about the size of the antlers that the outfitter was showing him. That's not my dad, but it's like the outfitter was like, come hunted Montana, check it out. Yep, you know that very well. Yeah, So that's been bothering me. What do you think about that? You know, I think everybody likes wants to get something big. You know, it's it's because they're not around every tree right. Um And but isn't that like one I guess maybe one of the things that bothers me is that that's like an artificial like if you go out on public or private lane and do all the work and get the big thing, that's what hunting is. This is like so I've always said, like, so, yeah, they're the marketing sales part. Yeah, big animals man, for for sure. There's uh um and uh adam field to table hunts in Colorado. Um And and he does do something like no, these are cow hunts, and and I'm gonna add show you have to cut it, cut it up and you're gonna have cut wrap meat going home, and and that's super awesome. Obviously it's a much different customer then. Yes, then you know that there's the like the sub sub category, the one percent of the hunting company, hunting world that's like, yeah, can you give that meat away to somebody like or they don't even inquire to it at all. Right, it's like, give me my picture, make sure this gets the tax during must and I'm on the I'm back on the plane. Can I take that. I'm a little a little bit deeper at one level, deeper, like there's that one percent to be give ship two ships about the meat, but there's another like deeper subset that cares about the meat a little bit yep, enough to like eat some backstrapping camp and maybe if if it's not inconvenient, takes some home. Um. I've seen a lot of examples of that kind of activity, like yeah, you know, taking some backstraps on and leaving the rest of the animal, uh and saying why I love the meat. You left most of the meat. And that's real expensive to get on the plane and you're like, wait a minute, what he six thousand dollar hunt? Yeah, I've seen that a lot in Canada, particularly because that's how hard it is to get the entire moves back to the States. People like, I'll just take the big cuts that I like, Yeah, look, that's not wrong, but I just, like I said, it's like there's just some bothersome like threads of that that I think, so the greater public to the non on the public don't look so good. Yeah yeah, and there are some realities and truth to that in the hunting space. Yeah. Um, but I have always said, like a really good guy, really good outfitter, they are going to may you feel as if you you did it like you like you came over that religion, you spotted the animal and you got yourself like and they're they're facilitating rights. Yeah yeah um, but if you don't have that sense of accomplishment, then they did a bad job, dead animal or not right. Yeah, because there's nobody that there's folks that can trick themselves into thinking something different. But if it's like, well, you know, all I did it really was pulled the trigger. That's not in my mind. You didn't. Yeah, you turned in b work as a guy not at work, And that's what I would make that point again, isn't that I say it bothers me? I think you made the great same as like the marketing. Is that what bothers me? Most of my guided hunts, I've always come off a better hunter, with a great experience and felt like fulfill by the thing. Yeah, and ideally, like that guide out there that you're spending time with your like you know, I want to spend time with him again. Yeah, I have a lot of that going on. In fact, you know, I just got a text from a guy named Mike Hawkard's that the first moosehn I ever did with Rogan up in British Columbia, Like that dude remained a friend. Yeah, Like you know, it wasn't like the most hardcore moose hunt ever, but it was a great time and I'm glad that I did it. Um So I think, Yeah, I think that it's more of my biggest issue with always thinking about the messaging around what we do. Is this the marketing of like the intrinsic person to person marketing of of outfitters? How it shows up online, how it shows up at trade shows? How that like and and I've seen and you've likely seen documentaries and vice. Ah episodes and different like non hunting coverage of hunting that go was to the trade show and makes it look like a circus. It goes to sci and shows you know, the dude walking up and asking about the lion and seeing the flipbook of dead animals like it, and they play like yachte sacks while first looking around in the trade show because there's somebody on the outside. That ship looks really weird. It does it looks you know, it looks very yah. You know, it looks like trophy on it. Yep. Yeah. And you know I was when I was speaking to my class yesterday at the university, we need to discuss that part Cale's a guest you said, guest lecturer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh, which was awesome because the University of Montana and I didn't exactly leave on great terms, didn't didn't part way is on a great term. Um, but the they were studying, um like that that what guiding was, what outfitting was. And but of course, like they start in the nineteenth century right where the real deal trophy hunting was taking place. Um, where he had like your caravan of taxid room us and you know, and and a lot of tweed going on. Oh man, And uh, you know, I get to go a lot of places and chat with a lot of folks as as you do. Um, the amount of hunters that I run into that I would consider trophy hunters like that definition of trophy hunters is so so small. Um. And again like it's that one percent of the hunting population. And unfortunately, like hunting that we talked about him all the time ourselves. Yeah, and the media certainly focuses on there. And and you know, the more the medias refers to Donald Trump Jr. As your average hunter, the more because that just yeah, he may be your average hunter, but there's plenty of examples of him doing non average things in the hunting space. Like it is it that's a challenge, and I think that's probably why I'm I know for a fact having experienced it. It's not trophy hunting. Like you don't go to the hair the Great American Outdoor Show and the Harrisburg and there's a bunch of trophy hunters there. That's not the case. Um. But I think a conversation we could have better that I've seen at that show is like a wyoming mel deear outfit or sitting at his booth at Harrisburg with his giant his heads everywhere and his pictures of all the antlers, and then to get the non trophy hunting regular guy that has just extra five grand that wants to go out west, is all of a sudden like walking around looking for the guy with the biggest heads. Yeah, yeah, and I don't. I don't blame either party and I don't and I know what they're doing, and I know it's not that I know it's not what you're talking about, but I think the optics of it are such, the optics of it are such, could be improved a little bit. That's what I've been bothered by. There's I don't have anything that really comes to mind, because you know that average Joe just just like anybody, for any situation. You're like, yep, I'm gonna go out west, and you're a skier and you're looking at resorts and one has of powder every year and the other one has eight inches of powder every year. You're like, well, probably to go for more snow, not less in yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think that, but that even goes back to it, just the focusing just the animal, right, like Yeah, what they really want is a kick ass all around experience. Yes, that's what they really want, That's what they really desire. And if how do we how do how do we give that to them? Without saying the big deer is the end? You know, the big there's always the end result, always always, and I support that. I'm with you. I want them all too. I desire when I see a big deal there, I lust after that motherfucker like I would marry it, like if it would would like to spend time with me. What are you thinking about? Bend? So I get it. I'm not I'm not saying I don't get that, but like like I said, I mean, I think if if I took my non hunting brother to hunting trade show and he stood and watch that interaction, he would not get the reality of the situation. Yes, in my opinion, I think so. I think that part of our industry could use a little you know, just more of a more of a conversation about that one thing it is. And if you sit in on those conversations with those outfitters, the first thirty seconds they're like, yeah, this is a great example of it here. Yes, and you may may have an opportunity at a buck like that if you come out with me. But they're not behind every tree, right, these are these are prime examples. Right we are putting the best tomatoes in the front of the display. Yes, like that's that's how and you most won't do that. And a lot of the conversations is to sit down like what's the tent camp, Like what's the food? Like, yeah, how long you been doing this? Like you got a family. That's how people have the conversation, you know most of the time, uh, but it's uh but face value, it's like, well, all these folks are just looking to kill big ship. And that's if you walk down the aisles and you didn't like listen into those conversations, you'd be like, this is a this is a and learn horn market. Yes, yep, absolutely, And again like that trophy part of the conversation is such a small part of the conversation. When you're actually booking a hunt with an outfitter and they get through it as fast as possible, they're like, yeah, those animals do exist. Obviously, they're mounted and stuffed and right in front of your face. They do exist. That's a great example of a thing. Yeah, like, but there are no guarantees. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's the Yeah, that's the one thing is i'd say, like, as our segment concludes what bothers me today, I recently have been bothered by that and I just wanted to tell you nothing will come of it other than that it was something I was thinking about around my um, around my dad's hunt, and like, how is presented to him? Um? All right? We uh, I don't normally do this. I might have done it one at a time, but we asked for questions for you and for me from I got some and they're pretty good, pretty good. This one is from Meat Eating Canadian. Are there any specific bones from large game that we can use for stock slash broth if we find out our animal has c w D? Or should they be left alone all together to c w D being chronic wasting disease? Of course? Yeah? Yeah, I think if you are really following the whole in total guidelines, you want to discard those bones, um, whatever they may be, but certainly the spinal column and the head um ian the same place that you got that deer, So don't travel around with them and unfortunately, don't make stock with them. Yeah, yeah, I think that's you've heard you You hear all kinds of reactions to it, right, But that's a pretty specific example. There's CWD hanging around, and I have a deer that's tested positive for it. Really no, I don't want him to say I have will actually say. I say they, Um, Green Ridge State Forest that I hunting and growing up, there was c w D in that county. Um, a big outbreak CTD and they cut the deer tags down for for some years around that. Um that's my only experience, but we kind of just squid hunting up there, Yeah, for a couple of years. Of course I moved away at some point during that, but it was less of a thing because of it. So that's I think. Now it's like, we know cwts a thing, we know it's around. What's the what's the appropriate reaction for hunters? Yeah, and I do think that's it now. I know I believe that like Department of Natural Resources says, you know, just don't deal with the spinal column or or the brain or anything with spinal fluid um. But if you read some other sources, they tell you to leave all the bones in place. So I would just say, until we get a handle on this, we just you gotta Unfortunately it sucks, but you gotta skip making stock on on that creator. You got to. Yeah, but it's not worth it. It's not worth it. Here's I got some pretty funny ones, but nobody would understand a lot of these questions. We have a whatever Trevor has asking is Montana better than Texas? Uh? Boy, you lived in the state of Texas. You've been there though. Oh yeah, man, in Texan pride is not to be messed with. They you put it on shirts, don't mess with Texas. So I'm not gonna mess with it. I'm not gonna answer that question. No, man. I mean it depends on what you're into. Like barbecue, you like shorts and flip flops, Texas baby, Texas hospitality is a real fantastic As a father of a young child, do you like breweries with playgrounds? Absolutely? I love that And there's copies some aunts of that going on in Texas. Um that seems to be similar here in Montana right now. It's very cold outside of Montana. It's very warm outside in Texas. Yeah, I mean, variety is the spice lay France. A lot of opportunity us in Texas that you don't have Montana. You've got a lot of opportunities in Montana that you don't have in Texas. Um, you know, try it all. What about spices, the variety of life as a t shirt idea, spice is the variety of life. It's deep, it's not funny. We'll we're gonna, We're not gonna don we never will cut that b shook. Five. Let's talk tongues. Best tongue recipe. Yeah, So the simple deal with with tongue is it is a tough muscle. So pressure cooker or boil it. Um, and then you can pull the hide of the tongue off and the meat on the inside is really tender and great. And that's a delicate process pulling that hide off the huh it can be if you get the timing right, like you cook it long enough, then that meat separates almost on I've screwed that up in the past. Yeah, And on a deer tongue, if you're leaving a lot of meat on that high, then you're not left with a lot of meat in real short fashion. So um, and then from there, man, you can do anything you want with that make tacos out of it. Do whatever. I saw tad um when when I collect a lot of them, I saw tam and um green, all of those pimentos, garlic, a little bit of red wine, um and uh, and I throw some morels in there and then I serve it all on top of polenta and it's real one of my favorite. I love polenta. I fucking love Morrel's Yes puttle. I was talking in there, and I'm happy Camper coming over. Ye, I live way closer to you know, coming, Yeah, going over. Let's see if we find one more real good one. I got a lot of specifical it's about they're making me laugh, but nothing. Everybody wants to know, like your favorite thing to cook, man, I think your favorite your favorite cut the it's that's just a yeah. It's a tough question because I just really enjoy cooking, and it's super fun to try a new stuff, and you gotta make sure that you're just like constantly kicking your butt out of that rrupt and all open a cookbook and try something else out to really force myself to do something different, because it's just so easy to cook the same thing. Yeah, I have a problem with that I have a similar thing. I have a major problem. That's the freezer problem that I've had. I've had so much like straps and loins and yes, so Kimi Werner, love her, love her. Yeah, I look her up. You don't know who she is. You better get to it. Yeah, and incredible boys for food and harvesting critters. Um and uh. You know, she came over and I gave her a whole meal to your loin to play with and um she cut it up, pounded it thin and and lightly fried it. And I was just like, oh my god, you just ruined my far backstrap of those things. But I'm probably being polite because you're my house guest. And she could tell. She was like, She's like, yeah, are you get And so she's like, listen, I you know, I know food is important to you. It's super important to me. I feel like I disrespected your animal and we had this big heart to heart um and and you know, the reality is I'm just an asshole. And I was like, no, that was absolutely phenomenal food. I ate it. I ate all the leftovers yesterday and they were even better than the first night. And I have a surplus of meat. Oh yeah, and I should never think that this has to be cooked this way, and it was. It was great and just me being set my way as oh we've got yeah, and there's this podcast as that. There's the thing with my wife where I'm always just mean to her about cooking and wild game and I don't want to be awesome person, way better than me almost everything, but I get so pent up about like her cooking the game and maybe it might not be the best it could be. This is how you do this. I turned into a complete idiot. Yes, it comes to that. But I had this antelope loin and I smashed it flat, um, you know, cut it into steaks, like good inch and a half inch steaks, smashed it down into probably quarter inch steaks, and put a little bit uh. Here's a uh immigrated Texican Jess Priles. She does some cool stuff, cool hardcore hardcover carm and she came out with the game seasoning and I put a little bit of that on there, and then I put a little Italian bread crumbs on there and just smashed at him and just a little bit like more like seasoning than a breading crust, butter olive oil, big chunks of garlic, got that going until the garlic started brown up, pulled the garlic out, slit the antelope in there, got it of the way, he cooked still on the ross side, pulled it back out through the garlic in their shallots. Uh bunch morales. Uh. They soaked all that butter and olive oil up and cooked and then put the meat back in and had I feel like that should be called scalapini, but I don't want know, so you know, if that sounds like, that sounds right. It was absolutely phenomenal, and I would have just been eating you know, beautiful medium rare barbecued anaelopline if I hadn't been like, oh, I gotta try something different. So what you're telling people is expand, expand. It's very important to expand, try a new things and screw it up and try again. It is and you're gonna mow through that freezer so much faster if you're excited that, yeah, trying new stuff, you know. Yeah, And there's there's uh that's the way even for me processing game, like do you have muscle groups? You have? It seems pretty straightforward, but sometimes there's little things you can do to make it quicker. Make it easier. And those are the things that you remember and you can can pass on to other people. Same with cooking, but you gotta try it first. Yeah. Maybe one time they screw up the shank as you're as you're chopping it off, But next time you're gonna know, Yeah, exactly all you learn. Um a lot of mustache queries. How many mustache push ups can you do? Uh? Huh? Mustachts? You know, like, what are some good tips for a nice mustache? Um? Do you have any uh final thoughts around mustaches? Particularly? It bought a thing of mustache wax uh many years ago in uh, you know, the West Coast epicenter of hipster dump, seattle and facial hair. Um, and uh, I still have that tin of mustache wax. So occasionally, like particularly in the winter months and hair growth is really really moving, I'll wax it up just a little bit. Keep keep my mustache out of my food. But that's that's about all. Have you ever been chewing on a piece of food and thought, well, there's a hair in it and realize that you were only chewing on your own facial hair and that's gross still attached to your face? Ye find out to be a problem. Who put this hair? This's gross? Um, all right, I think that's it. I don't I don't see off look again. But thank you. We got seventy eight people commenting ah and asking questions. So thank you for all of those folks who did that. I don't really ever do that, but that's pretty cool. Everybody wrote in thank you for that. What's next for you? Man? What are you doing now? Granny's ninetieth birthday? Whoa yep uh Grahama Merryan Walton is happy birthday. Yeah, tough, tough old bird and there's no ninety year old week old bird. Yeah. And uh so we're the big family, the clowns getting together, um uh starting tomorrow and we're gonna do big food throw down. And I got a whole antelope ham that I threw in the suvied in the in the truck and um and yeah, we're gonna throw down for Granny. And then I'm coming back here. I'm joining the crew and flying out to Maryland in my home place. Do you hunt seek a deer? Which is something I've been very excited about. It's a beautiful, delicious creature, non native but delicious. Yes, there he goes. People are leaving work now, they're like going over to their families and we've totally avoided any moving. That's great, it's really great, well well planned out, well good at some things. Well enjoy Maryland. That's a that's a fun hunt. That's a wonderful deer and we'll look forward to it. Uh the next season of Meat Eater TV. Right, So if you listen to this, go watch Callahan one season seven and beat either TV. Your freeloaders like, make sure you go and you click on Netflix and watch all the episodes. It'll be I am very excited. I uh started researching this hunt six years ago. Six years ago and Steven Jannie one day they were like, so, I'm not saying we can make this happen, but if we could do any hunt you wanted to do, I was like, secret Deer in Maryland. They're like what, they're like, doll sheep. I'm like, dude, Secret Deer in Maryland's got history. There's food, it's cheap, there's public land. It's I'm not gonna say I'll let you guys break the news and the refuge you can go to and do it. I've done it many not many times were growing up. I travel over there and do it here here and there, but it is to be in the roar for the secret deer in this momps of southern Maryland on the eastern shore. It's pretty freaking unique. You're eating oysters, crab cakes and drinking yengling, living the life. So go go, my friend, drain the yengling from the shore and enjoying you. All right, man, Thank you, thanks much. That's it. That's all, Episode number thirty one of the podcast in the books. Thank you once again to Mr Ryan Callahan for hanging out and listening to some of the things that bothered me and asking some of his own questions about what we've got going on at meat Eater Incorporated. Right now. All that said, again, will reiterate all the hunting collected content. It's gonna live on the meat Easier dot com. Go to the listen tab to listen to all of these podcasts. You can go to my tributer page to read all the articles and just poke around and read some stuff from Mark Kenyon, Why are to Hunt? April Vokey from anchored at dirtke and chef at Ward Garcia, a bunch of other folks that are contributed, including of course Steve Rinnella. It's been fun to launch this and it's been even better to talk to you about it because we've been wanting to do that for quite some time. So thanks to everybody who uh wrote in and texted and called and reacted to our launch uh two weeks ago now and our why why we do what we do? And so we are in Montana. We are stationed, we are in an empty office. We're currently putting furniture in um wording to start this journey that is meeting and incorporated and hunting collective as a partnership. So that is it. Next podcast will be also we lovely Montana, so stay tuned with us. We'll be right back at you next Tuesday. Bye m