00:00:01 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to the Hunting Collective. I've been O'Brien and today for episode number twenty one, I'm joined by Jason Matt Singer and Sam sohol. You guys should know Sam Soho by now. He's the bus driving, badass nomad that's been on the podcast a few times, one of my closer buds, somebody who I love just having to ride along there as many pot as that possibly can get him. He's a great dude. He's joined by his good friend and somebody who's worked with a lot of Jason Matt Singer. Jason Matt Singer is a Fontana born filmmaker, conservationist just to have a great face in the hunting world. He's a sit gambassador, works with Eddie, does a lot of things in our space and most notably points them all towards conservation. And that's why I think many other reasons Jason court boys to hear. So we caught up for a midnight beer drinking, pizza eating podcast in Boson, Montana night before Total Archery Challenge. It's a great conversation about wild sheep, about how to conserve them, about how to better message for the wild sheep Hunter, A lot, a lot of good stuff to dig into, so hopefully you do an episode number one enjoy, And we're on. Gentlemen, introduce yourselves. Uh, Sam Souhol photographer, bus Guy, bus Guy, Jason Matt Singer, host of Endo High Country and Project Delk, Project Neil Deer, And we're about to launch the Circle of Life. Yes, that sounds good. Now I always like to start this will be fun. I'd like to start in the podcast by describing where we are now. This will challenge, says, will challenge your descriptive abilities. But Jason, give us a description of our current surroundings. Well, I think it proves how dedicated we are to getting it done. Um, you know, right now we are. We got a couple of white robes hanging on the wall. We got a pretty big audience, and we found a quiet spot amongst you know, amongst the chaos. Yeah, it's chaotic out there. Total our three challenges about to kick off. We're in Big Sky, Montana. It was a beautiful night, beautiful sunset. We had a photo shoot tonight. Yea, and uh, I'm just happy to be here. This is one of my favorite weekends all year. Of course, it's right in my backyard and all the people that I love to surround myself with or right here for a few days, especially Greg, who's in the bed. Uh, we're just gonna refer to him as only Greg. We wilyn describe wherees from what he's doing. Greg's arrival has been highly anticipated by a lot of people, so I mean so happy to happen. He's a bit of a big deal. He's resting a corps light on the stomach as he lounges on a hotel bed. He's got I think he's scouting. He's looking at maps, looking at maps his rout out for Morrow, because he doesn't Greg does not go by the course whatever target. The mountain has always been Greg's treadmill. The first time I met Greg, that was the shirt he's getting offgoing joke ever since it's a nice shirt. That's a nice shirt. Well, yeah, this is the lovely what's this called the Huntley? The Huntley Hotel. Shout out to those folks for making a hotel. Yeah, you're right, that was okay. Several chairs and the table, yep, it's just good and electrical outlets which are also helpful that we're supposed to do this in the bush, but we couldn't find a spot to park it where I could plug in. Well, listen, when you got a bus, that's bus problems. That's right, we're living out of a bus. Sometimes you gotta make You should have bought a shorter one. Are you gonna sleep in that bus tonight? I might? Yeah, I might not really want to share a room with anybody. Yeah that's true. Yeah, yeah, Well I don't blame you. Yeah, I'll go assess the situation. The feeling is definitely mutual. Trust. No, the smell, I know, snoring and the smell. We're gonna get deep in the conservation talk. But a pizza will be delivered at some point during the podcast. So maybe we'll have the pizza. Every person come in and make a guess, ask him some questions, hopefull see how they feel some coupins. Based on our promotion of the pizza place? What was Greg? What was the pizza Place? What I am excited about is I've never had a pizza with way goo beef on it? Is that what we're getting? Yeah? They got a little what's it called pizza works? Now works? Is w E r X? I hope W r k s screw the valves right, all right? Well, pizza works Big Sky, Montana. Thanks for broad and we paid for it, but thank you for bringing it. What was the official name of that pizza A kind the Guido, the Guido and no offense to any Guido's out there. I suspect it will be a hell of a pizza. Meatballs, meatballs, Yeah, and interesting a lot. They got a lot of wide goo beef in Montana. Yeah, probably, so everywhere is everywhere? You know, cows getting massaged every national forest. Well, happy cows are good cows. You know that's true. That's true. One more point before we begin the real reason we're here. Sam did say that every time we've podcast together, we've been drinking and now we have to burp out the left side of our mouths to prevent away from the microphoy from the microphone. So, so if if any of you hear like a little bit of clicking or like Mike noise rubbing, it's just trying to shift the mic far enough away so you don't Because I was like a to our conversation and like the fifth time that happened, like what, yeah, what was that? That's happening? In there. If you go back and listen to the Lani recap, there's a lot of a lot of that. I think we addressed it there as well. I feel like it's not only appropriate to address address that going into it, that there is uh there will be beer burbs and it's Corona shout out to hopefully Coronabal sponsor this podcast at some point. I don't know why they wouldn't. I don't know why either. I'd go, I'd do beach interviews. I would wear a bikini. I don't really care. So, um, she hunting is awesome. Um that's my sage. We don't even have any real segue other than say, um, Jason, you got a great opportunity to draw it once in a lifetime tag here recently twice, once in a lifetime opportunity twice. Yeah, this is the second time. Yeah, I'm talking about tell us about that. Well, yeah, I mean I drew a big horn cheap tag in two thousand six here in Montana, and uh, fortunately here in Montana, it's not once in a lifetime. You know, we've created enough opportunity for us to get back out there, so every seven years you can reapply. I had I think four so points. Not the best at math, but it was somewhere right in there and drew again in one of the premier units in all of North America. So yeah, I mean it's it's just one of those tags that's um, you know, there's no words for it. It's it's as good as when in the lottery, you know, there's like when it comes to auction tags. The most expensive tag ever sold was for the chance to hunt big horns in Montana, and that was in I believe two thousand thirteen at the Wild Sheep Foundation. I went for four hundred and eighty thousand dollars. Yeah. I honestly get chills just driving down Cannon here along the Galton and I just saw a sign that said sheep crossing. Yeah, and then I was like, I love that sign. I was like a little kid. I was like, I told my wife Hannah, look look a sheep crossing. She's like, whatever, what's that mean? I'm like, he such, it's even to me even to be in country where, especially in the little forty eight, where you can run into a big horn, especially this magnificent country. Yeah, for sure there Yeah, and a lot of times, a lot of times around here. They end up seeing them driving up. They'll be hanging out right next to the road. Yeah, I've seen that. Not in Montana, with Colorado, I've seen that, Yeah for sure. Ye. No, they're They're just such a you know, iconic animal for North America, and I you know, I wish more people had the opportunity to actually uh be around big horn sheep because they are come in. Yeah, pizza arrived. Pizza guys here, pizza guys here going. We knew you were coming. That's fantastic. Appreciate that. Yeah, sex man, that was quick delivery too. That was pizza work and sell yourself short. Still, oh man, that looks good. If the end of this podcast gets a little sleepy, you'll know we're about to eat bread. If you take turns like pushing the microwa in, it's like, damn, all right, this is getting good. It's good real early like this. It's gonna need more beer though, saying I thing, maybe how many we got there? We got a couple left at least. Um when that when you draw a sheep tag like that, I mean, what's your I mean, what's your knowledge of the area? How much have you thought about that? I mean, is it's a dream tag, But is it enough of reality going into that that you've already scouted and thought and understood what it is. I mean only because I had had it before, you know, the first time I drew it, I can relate to that because I didn't have a clue. I mean, you're going into no man's land. You know. I've always heard about the area. I've you know, I've hunted around it for deer and elk, but I've never dug into it for sheep. So you know, you got it. It takes a whole other brain when it comes to approaching a sheep hunt versus an elk hunt versus a deer hunt, even if you're hunting them in the same to rain. So yeah, it was all foreign to me. Um. I remember I started. The first thing I did was Duncan Gil Chris video on how to Field Judge Sheep was one of the first things I got. At the time. Duncan was still alive and I ordered it from him. Um, great DVD. That taught me a ton about you know, because the first time I went out there, every sheep looked giant like those rams. I mean, they're just so impressive. Looking. You know, until I watched Duncan's videos, I didn't really get a grasp of how to break them down, like you know, an elk or deer or something. I had been around a lot, so there was definitely that UM kind of side of it is just you know, what was a young ram, what was an older ram? What are growth rings? What are not growth rings? Just all of that, but then you know the area itself. UM at that time, you know, there wasn't on X maps. Unfortunately the Fishing Game does send out map or did at the time send out maps to the tag holders and kind of gave you an area on our idea where to start, and UM, from there, it was just about digging in and just putting boots on the dirt, you know, and um started finding rams and one leads you to the other, which leads you to somewhere else, and you know, next thing you know, you've got a few few areas. Uh, do you feel pretty competent in what kind of ram you looking for? You know, any animal I hunt, it's just the one that gets me going. You know, it's not it's no there's no picture in my head of what that animal is. It's just you know how it is when you're out there hunting and you're trying to convince yourself that's the one, that's not the one, you know. So for me, when I when all of a sudden, I see an animal and my heart starts beating and like I like not even thinking straight trying to figure out the next move or whatever. That's what I hunt. Can you like that's that's a good thing to delve into a little bit, and we should all try to explain because I don't know that you can when you see an animal in your heart starts being like, that's the animal we're gonna kill. A lot of times you can see be like, that's the biggest help I think I'll ever see, when this piece of property or wherever money, or the biggest sheep I think I'll ever see. Of course, you never know, but something like I said, sometimes you just look at an animal quickly through the bodies will be like, that's the one. Let's go, shooter, go totally, and I think you know it's a combination of the animal in the scenario. You know, sometimes it's just everything aligns and and you know, you just the bow goes off and you really don't even or the rifle or whatever, and you just and you look at each other like what just happened? Um? I think a lot of times that's with the scenario too. I mean, if you're in this epic location and you've may be pre scouted it and you've never been there, and then you end up in this spot next thing, you know, this animal just presents this beautiful, you know, opportunity. It just hits you, you know, and it may be way smaller than you picture it in your mind and maybe way bigger, and you just get lucky. I mean, I don't know, I don't know what it is. I think it's a combination of the animal, the point of the season in which you're at the location. You know, it's just all these factors that just sort of just hit you, you know. Yeah. I always wonder that how much social media, how much our expectation of what other people are gonna how other people might judge what we do. Well, I'll tell you with the sheep hunt that becomes real in a hurry, you know, elk antelope, anything else, it's not that, but when you get that tag you start to or any special tag that you know, a lot of people like to get. You start to feel like to some degree, you're hunting for everyone else too, you know when we touch on this in the film tomorrow like or Saturday, sorry, um, like you feel like you're kind of the ambassador for your friends because they live vicarious lee through you. And so you want to hunt as hard as anybody else would, and you want to get as good as sheep as anybody else would. And you want to you know, work for it like anybody else. You want to earn it like anybody else, you know, so you do really you know that comes into effect for Elk, for me, for dear. You know, I feel like it's not hard for me to hunt for me, you know, And I think that comes with I've got great partners in this industry, you know there there, It's not the days of fifteen years ago where you gotta show x amount of minutes of a sponsor or anything. Like. My sponsors are great partners. They build great products, and they they just let me do me. It doesn't matter. You know. My first two episodes this year, Sam and I worked our tails off this fall, and I got the opportunity at a bigger bowl than I've ever got my life, and I missed it, and I made a two part episode out of it where we went home with nothing, and and I'd love to be able to tell that, you know, and not have to feel any pressure of I've got to get X amount of animals or I've got to kill this animal or I've I told myself over ten years ago when I first started doing this, I will never kill an animal to make an episode. If I'm not feeling it like what we're talking about, it's just not going to happen, you know. Yeah, we've talked a lot about Uh. Steve Ornella is one of his brothers. I guess Matt talked to came up with this idea maybe not original to him, but of a purity score for hunting. And he's like, I just have a purity score. I could sit down in front of the animal, like what's the feeling? Like, what do I feel? How pure is this? Am? I thinking I got him? But man, I'm not sure that was the right I'm not sure what it was day two ship. Maybe it should have been day five, or maybe it should have been day seven. And for me now hunting, I like to just when it happened, sit down and like feel it feel right. And my second guess in it am I thinking, Man, I don't think I don't think people think this is big enough for I'm not sure I worked hard enough for this. I got lucky ship. I don't feel right about it, and just judge that and each time try to get to higher score, like just get to the next level. Um, And like you said, when you're in this industry, I'm sure you and say I'm saying, way you get all these invites and I'm like, come on, this hunt, it's a it's a dream hunt, Like what kind of hunt is it? It might be a dream hunt for you. I might think it sucks, or I might kill a giant L can feel like I was cheap. I've done that a few times. You kill like a bull that as a kid, I would have never thought that I would even got close to and you shoot it and you're like, well, yeah, okay, like that was awesome, but it didn't you like didn't earn it enough for something? Yeah, Or we were talking about we were making jokes coming in here, like I love those d I Y I guided hunts, like the guy's like shooting and then from there it's d I Y Yeah that all plays into it. But at some level, you know, I'm sure she hunt is is just the next level you amp up all these feelings and all the things that go into it. It is. It's just everything is. Because I mean I waited until there was nine days left in the season. We've been there almost thirty days filming hunting. The camera crew was there more than me because I'd go back and see my boys and then come back and they would continue to get content and stuff. But like it was, you know, when you have a tag like that, it's just you've never hunted along like you never wanted to be over. The situation is never good enough, you know, you hold it on such a pedestal. Well, I think the cool thing that you did last you're with that sheep hunt is. So we went up and scouted for a few days in augustin right towards the end of August, and I mean personally, I couldn't believe just sitting on one glassing now and we were looking at five, you know, five or six different sheep that were boone and crocket animals. I mean, just big sheep. I mean, the country is beautiful and you got all these big sheep run around. But from day one, your whole goal with that hunt was to soak up every second of it and make it like let it last as long as it needed to last, and like just embrace like the whole hunt instead of like, Okay, I'm gonna go in there and like I'm gonna whatever it takes. I'm gonna, you know, knock going down as early as or whatever. And that was never it. It was always just like I'm just gonna go, like this might be the last tag I ever drawn Montana for sheep, and I'm just gonna go let that just be in that moment for as long as possible. And that was cool. Do you feel doubly like I always as somebody in the industry who some almost my job to go do stuff like that and not cheap punt's course, but just hunting in general. I feel like some it's not a guilt, but it's just like a responsibility to enjoy this thing and to put all myself into it because there's a whole lot of people that would give anything to be doing So you got that, and then you also have what we're talking about earlier is the pressure of I'm representing everybody with this tag that would desire to do this or puts time and energy and money to do it, and so you have that the double responsibility of those two things that want. Yeah, it's it's really all the pressures you feel of hunting, no matter what it is, or just magnified on a sheep hunt. And I do appreciate you know you're saying that, Sam, it was. You know, I saw a lot of bigger rams than the one I got, And I'm not saying like by any means I'm upset with the one I got, But it always was about soaking it up. You know, I wanted to really get to no sheep. I wanted to really live in that country for as long as I could. I wanted to really understand the animal well. And because you did that, you were able to experience things last fall that people like even sheep hunters, will probably never experience in their entire life, Like that whole scenario when you guys were on the boat filming those sheep, like the one the sheep had a you know, another sheep like basically buried in the hole, like guarding it, and uh, you know, and then like ten minutes of unbelievable sheet footage. I mean I just got to see like little snippets of it, and it was it's just crazy. Take a quick break, Greg broke the seal in the pizza. What are we feeling. We're feeling good on that good. It's hard to eat with the microphone. We'll have to take turns of eating while someone else is talking. Yeah, apologies to the honest, but this looks really good. We're about to eat it anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh no, it was just um big because you know, you spend that much time out there, you you give yourself the amount of time, you give yourself the opportunity to have things happen to you for sure. Yeah, instead of rushing through it and just being able to appreciate the whole hunt. You know. It's Uh, it's funny because every time I've ever dedicated myself like full onto one of these big films for a conservation organization, I always feel like I get blessed with opportunity I wouldn't have. You know, it may sound weird, but like right after we decided to do Project Now, amazing things started happening. And I don't know if it's because I was focusing more on that animal. But I'm just like, I just felt like they were these gifts, you know, like, oh, you're gonna you know, you're doing something good here look at this, and like what Sam's talking about. I mean, you'll see it in the film. It's a nine different rams had one you, and she she wasn't ready to breed, so she went in this tiny little hole in the side of the mountain and she wouldn't come out, and this one big Ram wouldn't leave her alone, but he wouldn't let any of the other Rams get nearer as well, you know. And so it's this whole scene of him bashing heads with other Rams, running around the circle, trying to get in there with her, trying to get her out. Another Ram actually gets in there with her when he's chasing another Ram off, and he comes back and just starts pounding on him, and it's just in and sane saying and finally he like hooks his horn behind her horn and basically like drags her out, and she's got no choice. She just takes off up the mountain, and this whole like minnow trail of Rams trying to follow her up the mountain. It's just just telling me. You guys put like yakety sacks in the background, but now it was just yeah, it's stuff like that in Yeah, you just can't there's no way to describe, you know, getting to a place far away from everything and seeing something like that. Yeah, it was. It was one of the most memorable experiences I've had of you know, being out there. How far away from that were you couple of yards? That's and like Sam says, you know, like these rams, I mean we're passing up rams that would easily make the record book Boone and Crockett, Pope and young whatever. Like every day, you know, you're not You're not looking at just any ram. These are you know, the you know, new hunter harvested world record ram came just out of an area north of where I was hunting last year. So because what's the We talked a lot about the average amount of days that a sheep hunter Montana will hunt before they kill a sheep, and it's like, surprisingly less three days. Yeah, it's like because because they're like the population is growing and there's all these big rams, and guys can go out and hunt for a few days, scout a little bit, and then you find a few I mean you can get on a good knob and you can find a good sheep, and then you go in there and you can kill a boot and crockett sheep. I mean in a couple of days. First more, first day Sam and I went scouting. We saw, I know, one of the rams was. I know two of the rams we saw that day ended up being taken by other hunters than they were, you know, d plus rams. You know, you gotta feel, you know, the only sheep hunt that I've been a part of was in Northwest Territories is last year, and it felt it sucked. It was a wonderful hunt. I didn't have a tag obviously, but it felt like because you were limited in days, a lot of those hunters ended up going there and then coming back the next year, or going home for a month to coming back. You know, they're they're hunting ten days and not getting it done. It just felt like that arbitrary, what seemingly arbitrary amount of days that the alphator decides, well that's two days, or that's how much these this many days costs. It seemed like, man, that sucks. Man that sucks, because around day seven you're just like that fee link that you get when you see the one gets to be pretty artificial. Man. Yeah, you have to. But for you, you can go and see your kids, dedicate your time and do it the right way, which which is the fact you've we're dedicated to film and all that, I think is it. You know, it's quite the gifts for everybody that gets to watch that film. Oh man. I mean I feel like the lucky one though, and I'm just excited for everybody to see the film. You know, it turned out great. I've kind of got choked up, you know, every time I watched it here in the last since we've gotten a polished and I just can't wait for it to come out. Yeah, I know. I remember you were when you were doing it. You were like, well, we've been out here twenty seven days, probably have shot one one day, like six. But I'm an insane human. Now. There's there's just there's just levels to hunting. In my opinion, they're just like what you're willing to do, what your true dedication is to it, and how you display that's important, especially for you guys like yourself and saying saying you know that people are watching to see and they're looking for I think, especially on social media nowadays, people are looking for inspiration. Yeah, for sure. I mean there's so so much garbage out there, not you know, necessarily in any one area. It's just there's just a lot of noise in the world, negative for the most part. You know, you flip on the news, it's negative. You look at the newspaper, it's negative. You know, it's just it's so refreshing to see people out there living this life in beautiful places and doing what they love. And you know, I think it is inspirational for people. And and then you know, there's definitely different levels and whatever level that is that you know, gets the out there, I think that's great. You know, legal, ethical, there's there is all kinds of different levels. You know, if you want to uh on a water hole or if you want to hike to the top of you know, the biggest mountain around, you can do that here. And that's the beauty of it. So there's something for everybody. And and um, yeah, we live in a great place for it all, Montana, good Lord, and we are right in the middle of it right now. I'm what a wonderful place. It's hard for me not to laugh. And you're like, you know, right in my backyard. It's technically right in my backyard to where we're at. I just don't spend much time here. Yeah, let's let's you know, let's stop for a minute, just Sam, Like, when are you gonna settled down? Like Jason and I are a little bit just concerned. We haven't talked about this, but I'm just assuming I feel you're not the only people that are concerned. I've been I've been talking to your parents, trying to think of what somebody called me. What did Steve call me earlier? He's like, you have a home base or you just a hobo? Yeah it was hobo? Yeah, Um yeah, I mean at some point I think I gotta Um, I mean, I love all the travel and stuff and love what I've been able to do, but at some point and I have to slow down a little bit. I mean, well, you probably never stopped traveling, and I'll never have like a normal job, probably, but um, it's been fairly chaotic the last six years. Next next year you go short bus and then shorter bus actually get especially so we're gonna go from public land full size bus to like public land short bus to public land prius. Yeah, we figured that out. But you can do it like a little round year tough the side of the prius. Yeah, this is a state land only this is walking. It's cool though, what Sam has done, because he's taken off, you know, promoting what we all love, but just in such a unique way and something that you and was your brother and your buddies kind of talked about. You just wait for it, Yeah, because I mean I had even talked like the first time that Ben and I ever met, I was telling him about my I wanted to buy a school bus years ago. And yeah but um yeah the bus idea started a long time ago and I was the one dumb enough to buy one. So now it's I'm just I've been very happy to see how that project has progressed in like just the following that has and um, you know, I'm just a small voice in the fight to keep public lands public and it's been cool to see kind of people rally behind that and want to do more just because they've been like I've been helping try to help educate people about what's going on behind the bus like a reality show. Yeah you can line it up. Yeah, I'm not going to try to find the film crew to take care of. Like you said, just bringing awareness to it has elevated people's interests, you know, and that's what you set out to do. You know. I remember when you were talking about it, and it's just cool. It's been cool to follow along and see your journey and your dedication to driving that across the country to different places to these events like here, I mean, the bus has parked right out here, total archery Challenge. People can come by and check it out. You know, that's awesome. It's like the the like you just still your passion and your view of the world. Because we've talked about this before. It's like people ask like, how do you how do you get to where you were? Like, I don't know. I have no idea because I knew I would have just been like, got there quicker, right, I would have been there right off the bat. But like you, I'm super passionate about this thing. I have a mindset where I'm happier when I'm not tied down. Next thing, I know, I have a bush. But that's just this distillation of your passion as well as the way you view the world and what makes you happy and if you chase that thing and it turns into a public ends bust where it turns into a TV show and films about conservation, I think those things are all to be admired just for those reasons. Like you've allowed your your journey to leave, you know, to go that way because you want to chase what your dreams and you don't allow you know, I'll ship to get in front of that. Yeah. And I think I mean, like you were saying before, I think you once you become kind of hyper focused on one goal, I think you start to see the doors that are that open in front of you, and you like, it's not one decision or another that takes you to that path. It's just it's a million small decisions. And like but once you know, you're, like you said, you're really passionate about one thing, and then this opportunity kind of pops up and you kind of you just go that way a little bit, and then this opportunity pops up and just kind of people say that passion and you meet more people, you shake more hands. And who I was talking to about a five year plan, wo I started, Shawn to graves. Here's my five year plan. I was like, listen, man, I don't know. I don't have any five year plan ends because I feel like if i've i'm my five year plans out here and it's something awesome is going on, you know outside of my purview my five year plan, I might miss that ship I've already made goals too far down the road. I just like to have a passion and just like jump into it. Whatever happens happens, Because if you try to get yourself into a position where this is how I'm going to succeed or this is what I need to do, you're gonna miss some stuff along the way that doesn't fit into the plans you're made. And that doesn't mean that you shouldn't have like kind of an overarching goal, but like to have like a step by step something laid out like that's tough. Yeah you might, yeah, especially in your case. Yeah. Well it's kind of like an analogy would be, like, you know, I was talking to you about some of these photo shoots, and I'm like, man, I feel like these guys that are so worried about being at a time, at a certain place at a certain time miss a lot of the best stuff. And I think that's like, you know, relative to what we're talking about. If you're only thinking about one thing and one time, you're gonna miss a lot of the good stuff. It's like life is what happens when you're busy making other plans, you know. And so it's like Sam says, it's great to have, you know, a goal of Oh, I want to you know, make a great footprint for my kids, a foundation, send him to college. You know, you've got to have those goals. But to think like this is exactly how this needs to happen, or it's not going to happen at all. No. I mean my journey has evolved so many times throughout my short little time of doing this, Like but it just keeps getting better because we're passionate about what we do, and you meet other people who are passionate. I mean, that's what brought everybody in this room together as our passion. We're not sure what Greg Pizza and Greg. He's on the bed, but he's got his shoes on. Greg's noncommittal. He's on the bed but has a shoe. They're hanging off the hanging off the light of him. It's not like he's getting the pizza only good enough for one s like, don't worry, just get in there, don't don't be nervous. Oh yeah, yeah, because there's a lot of chewing to be had there. That's a lot of animal protein. Pizza extra. Yeah, it's a lot of meat on there. What is that for? Shoot him? I think that's mouse backstrap. There's tomato basil. There's tomato basila on there, because I know every started with the basis. Well, here's what we do, boys. We take some bread, we throw it up in the air, we put in the oven, put some sauce on it, a little bit of cheese. After that's up to you. We look at it a whole different way than everybody else. Pizza Works. Thanks Pizza Works. If they're closing right now, I wish, I do wish. That's what we were doing is on a CB with truckers, like outside the hotel. Maybe I'll start a podcast where I just want to cebu with trucks recorded. That would be good. Random conversations with random truckers, just convincing truckers like pull over man, what's my handle? Let me think about that for just a second. Bus Yeah, bust, lord, bust, lord, al right, what were we talking about before? Oh, we were just talking about, you know, how your passion kind of ends up opening doors for you you didn't see in lading the in directions you really didn't see. And I, you know, I had to pinch myself moment. I was talking to Greg on the drive up from Bozeman, and I was like, you know, who'd have thought? You know, right in my backyard, I'm launching a film that's supported by arguably the biggest best companies for what we do right here with all my peers. I'm like, how did this happen? You know, like we're talking, I mean, fast forward ten years and here we are, you know, And and I'm like, you you know, I when I about, you know, several years ago, my mom passed away, and I just remember my dad saying, you know, live your life. If you don't have the money for it, who cares do it? If you don't have time, plan it and live it, because you'll regret it. And that's that's what I do, you know. And obviously I want to have a way to work things out if if things don't go right as plan, but I'm all about just committing and giving it everything you've got and it's just never really backfired. And there's nothing I generally disagree with people saying, like, be your best self. Fuck you, Like, listen, I'm gonna be a better self than I was yesterday. Like the only thing that's truly that you can truly compare yourself is to the person that you just were, like whether it's last year or ten years ago or ten years before that, Like that's really the only thing you can do, because if you start being like I gotta this, I could do this even as a hunter, Like there's you founded a long time. Everybody at this table is hunted since they were kiddos. You're never gonna know everything. You're never gonna be the best hunter or even the best version of your own the hunter that you will be, but you'll be if you're dedicated to it better than yesterday. And if you're better than yesterday, well hopefully when you're at the end, you'd be like, damn, that's pretty good. And it was pretty good because I didn't I didn't try to achieve something some shiny star. I just was trying to be better than yesterday. Always was never good enough, which can be torturous, but it also can be pretty damn good. You know, if you get to points where you're at you like, dude, I worked and worked and worked, and all of a sudden I looked around. I was like, wholely shit, this is cool. Like that moment is worth ten years of work. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you just it's worthful lifetime as far as I'm concerned. And what's funny is you keep hitting these moments where you're like, man, life is so good right now, you know, how's it going to get any better? And then six months from now, you're like, my life is so good right now, how is it going to get any better? And then flat, you know, fast forward six years, you're going, dude, how did this happen? My life? My life is so good? How's it going to get any better? You know? And it's like I think that's just you know, appreciating things too, and never taken things for granted. I mean, I've lived at, you know, virtually the Base Alone Mountain my entire life, and I stare at that mountain every second I get a chance, you know, And I think it's appreciating people and araortunities and places and sunsets and smells, and you know. I think that is what keeps people just passionate right to the end. You know, if you ever take it for granted, then I always ask that to people that live in places like Bozeman, like you ever just like like, yeah, there's mountains whatever. Fine. I've seen him every day for the last twenty years, because I can't imagine that ever happened to me. You wake up, your looks they always look different. Lighting changes, like in five minutes, a different mountain and the cloud. I mean, it's ever changing. I find myself being relieved by the fact that they're there, Like I wake up, they're still there. I'm not dreaming. I'm still in Montana or I'm still in Colorado, I'm still in wherever. Wherever you are, Well, there's there's this beautiful landscapes. Don't have to be mountains. It could be the ocean. Yeah, I mean the bad Lands is beautiful, you know, the prairies beautiful. It's yeah, it's just appreciation for when first every moment of life and the people around you. You know. Yeah, when I first moved to Montana, I lived with some buddies out in Belgrade in the room we rented a house, and uh, kind of on this new development area and the room that I had faced to the east, and I would never shut the curtains because every morning I'd wake up the sunrise coming up over the Bridger Mountains and like, I mean, that's just incredible, like to be able to just watch that come up. So I think, you know, it does happen where you live in one spot for a long time, you start to like you don't really notice him. But I think it's like we were talking about earlier, just gotta stop and just recognize like what you have, Like how cool that is. Well, it's funny because that stuff changes right when you allow it to. Because oh yeah, Greg, bring it over. Jason wants to bring it over. Dude, I'm gonna eat one of these wagon. Were you a gymnast at one point in your life? Close enough? Yeah, you get put an awkward You got to wear the tights. He was in it for the single. Let me get a ladies. One time I wore boxer shorts in my single when I was wrestling. Not a good idea. Look like I was wearing a diaper. You can't take your boxer because then you're just straight. Did you get laughed off? The mat Yeah, I feel like my brother was on the teen's and just after I was just like, holy ship, what are you doing? Man? I was like, yeah, they are bunching a little bit. I'll go lie to you anyway, back to Passion for Life. It's like going to switch subjects. These black good meat chunks on amazing. So who's gonna go first and have a piece of pizza? Like, who's gonna like think? Maybe Sam? You go, and then Jason I will describe you eating it. I'm really going to enjoy this. Um. He's going deep. He's pulling it out. He looks excited. That's not even that media of a piece. A little disappointed in you. That piece of side it is. Oh he's putting two pieces together, sandwich in it. Unbelievable. Nobody saw this coming. Oh yeah, he's going two pieces that well. Friends, you can less time off the mike too. You're doubling up. You're doubling up. See. Sam has always been a thinker. That's what I don't get to wear. Sam. You don't get to like a semi homeless Instagram star by just not being an innovator. That's Sam. It was a halftime update. You're halfway through. What's so, how you feeling this is delicious? Yeah? Yeah, and that is true. You don't get to where I am without having lots of ideas. That's a good and good not bad. That's a good bad idea. That's probably a good time to talk about conservation, UM, particularly sheep hunting and hunters, because I want to talk to as many people as I can about this, especially yourself and eat some people like Grey Thornton, who who is the CEO, is the CEO and president and CEO's a good man. UM and we'll podcast with him later this week. Um. We got one guy eating pizza. We got one guy Jason second break to drink his beer. Sam says, about two thirds away people are riveted right now. Guaranteed they should be special. Uh, pizza works. I feel like I have myself. I am not conflicted on sheep hunting, sheep hunters and conservation, Like there's some nuanced things that I that I've had to think through over my time and and seeing kind of what conservation does for the animal, but also separated from the motivation, the general motivation of the regular sheep hunter, you know, and the fact that sheep hunting is expensive. It's it's for a small amount of people and can be labeled as elitist, if you'd like to think about it that way. So I imagine I say all that to say, Like, my question is if someone were to say to you, all sheep hunters are trophy hunters and the conservation is some kind of veiled attempt to you know, allow trophy hunting to continue, but just pay into conservation as a way to you know, shields your true intent. What would you tell him? You know, I'd tell them that they should thank everybody for the efforts that have been done because there's been nobody else out there doing a damn thing. I would tell them that all funding for sheep ah for wild sheep in North America is funded by the Wild Sheep Foundation. And you know, I didn't understand until recently talking to Gray, talking to Kevin Hurley, wild sheep cannot They're not a hearty enough animal to live on their own through the um the system that's put in place by state and federal agents agencies. Right now, there's not enough funding that comes in for the demand needed to keep and put wild cheap on the mountain. They're an expensive animal, you know, and I tell people all the time, like you would like to believe that, you know, it's all just God's creation. When you drive down the road and you see a deer off the side, or you see a bighorn sheep, uh, you know sign flashing on the side. But man, there's a lot of a lot of human you know, interaction to make sure those animals are there and and wild sheep are the pinnacle of that. Um. You know, I would say you're right in the fact that I do think a lot of people look at it as expensive and elitists. But dude, look at me. I mean, I'm not rich by any means, and I've had the opportunity to hunt those beautiful things twice in my life by putting in my what's a cost now in Montana like ten bucks application? I mean unfortunately, like my biggest expense was film permits, you know, for the whole entire thing. Um. So it's like to say, you've got you know, you've got to have you got to buy the sheep tag for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Will Thank goodness there are men out there with that kind of opportunity to do that. But no, you don't need to be that. I mean, and the Wild Sheep continues to be innovative in the way they like the less Than One Club. You know, you become a member of the less Than One Club. That's about your best opportunity to draw a sheep tag in your life and always make a joke fit. It's less a joke and more reality that you go to the Wild Cheap Convention, which is like awesome fun, it's so great of of that community of people. You just like go to the urinal taking a picture like Generald, why does sheep hunt? Like? You go around the corner like another sheep phuint you enter to win and you're like, really, this is if it was elitist, it wouldn't be this. Yeah, and the people you know are winning his hunts and that's what gets you there and and yeah, no, and beyond you know, the state draws and and all that. There is the Wild Cheap and there are those up aratunities. I mean, I'm a member. I'm a lifetime member of the Wild Cheap Foundation just for that. They draw a sheep on every year for a life member. You know, when you look at those odds, pretty good odds, then totally I mean. And then I'm a member of the Montana Wild Cheap Foundation. They draw a sheep hunt every year for a life member. Then I'm a member of the Chadwick Ram Society, which for every two and fifty dollars you donate to Chadwick Ram Society, your name's put in the hat to win a stone sheep hunt. So you know, say what you will. But I'm an active participant in as much of this I put in for Wyoming, I put in for other states. You know, I'm an active participant. There's a lot of upfront cost with some of this, but man, it pays dividends on into the future, you know. And and um, getting back to wild sheep, I mean, they're just so fragile. Um. Without the funding that amen through the you know, the Wild Cheap and these tag sales that are auctioned off every year, you know, our opportunities as Montana residents, you know, would just dwindle. We've got a hundred and twenty six I think tags right now that we can draw for and without the say half a million dollars every year that comes in from these sales, you know, it would go to whatever a hundred tags and then seventy five tags and then fifty and so I always try to have these conversations with as many people as I can and say, look, don't hate on that guy. Man. Without that guy, we wouldn't even have the chance to put in for these areas. And to your to your point, it's easy to say, you look at that one tag that went for half a million bucks, but well, no regular hunter can get that. But to your point, you live in Montana, you live in places where sheep or present, you have chances. You know, they're limited chances, as they should be because the animal is fragile. And you know these are biologists, wildfologist calling shots. Here's somebody you can kill this year. And so I think that's that's the point that needs to be made. Well, one thing I always, you know, also ran into this. I had another person right in specifically about sheep hunting that said, uh, it's an old white man's game. What he's talking about, It's an old white man's game. And it went back to the money thing. I was like, well, just rich guys can do it. Only rich guys can do it, that's all. It is, just rich gas Like one, you need those rich guys. But too. It's not that's not true. I mean I've only ever lived in Montana my whole life. I know of other opportunities and things, but to get to it, Montana has an has unlimited cheap areas. If you put in you will get the sheep tag. You can oceep hunting now on every single year once that quote has been met. Now, if you kill a ram, you're taken out for your seven years. But you can go hunt sheep with the tag in your pocket every single year in Montana if that's what you want to do. And once those one or two rams are killed in those units, they shut it down. But you know that is not a rich man's sport. I know so many people, not not so many, but you know a good grip of people out of Bozeman that do that unlimited thing every year, and they love it. They love the challenge. They love to just know they hold the sheep tag for ten years to go on one sheep hunt. They can hunt every year. They can look at rams, they can make stocks, they can you know, they can be sheep hunting. You know you live in uh like British Columbia, residents can hunt cheap every single year. Alaska residents have a lot of great opportunities to hunt sheeps. So I mean, it's how bad do you want it? You know, don't say that move to Alaska to Canada well and sorry, I mean it just takes. Yeah, sheep aren't everywhere in North America and that's the biggest challenge. I wish they were. I wish Wild Sheep Foundation wishes they were. You know, there's such an awesome animal. Once you have the chance to spend time with them, You're like, man, if more people had the time to spend with these things, they they'd love them. They they'd care about them more, you know, because they're for everybody. They're not just for the guy that draws the tech there. Everybody's to enjoy. You know, what is it about? You know, if you look at the you know, if you're just judging what's on their heads and the charismatic nature of the animal, you pick something else. Yeah, wild sheep are in the terrain they live in is magnificent. But the animal that they are, you can find something with the bigger set animals on top of its head, you certainly find something that's you know that in the rut is a little more interesting to hunt, Like, do you think if if wild sheep did some sort of a bugle or a roar like the button the head thing. When we got to see that when we were scouting in August. I mean, of all, it wasn't even close to the rut and they were still clashing heads Like that was pretty cool that. No I had no idea how far that noise carried. It just pops. Yeah, I mean we were looking at sheep that were over a mile away and it was like someone's sat next to you to clap their hands. Yeah, yeah, so I mean when and that's that's just it. Like I spent so much time with them this fall. I gained a whole new respect for him. Like you say this until you have a chance to be around him and then there it's like watching uh college rugby team out on Main Street down at the bars every night. Like it's like I feel like it's watching like the men men of nature. Like they are always fighting, They're always like pushing on each other. They're always like kicking each other in the balls. They're always doing just messing with each other. And they're they're just like bodybuilders out there, you know. Yeah, yeah, I bring that all up, just because it's annoying to me that some of the things you hear being a kid from the East Coast, like that's how that's how it's portrayed. It's like sheep hunters, the western elitists. Yeah. Um, And for anybody listening, just just freaking listen, do your research and understand and also understand that there there's a deeper reason why people appreciate sheep the way they do. It's not just because they've got big curling horns coming out of their heads. Because again, there are many animals that are that are you know, if you're just looking at the look of an animal and feel of an animal, for many animals that are just as impressive. I would say I wanted caribou and elk and older and all of them are equally as impressive and you betually impressive terrain. So having never sheep on it, I would lean all guys like yourself to explain to people like, there is this innate feeling around these animals because one, they are so delicate, to their habitat is so delicate. Um, and there's such a you know, there's such a rarity that they do become this like hunting royalty that should be a little bit above you know, all the other things you might go chase. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know what the answer to saying that it's just an old white man's game. I guess probably just more where they live, and just you know, you look at regions of populations and that's just where they live, you know. I think if they lived in more places, they'd be viewed differently. But unfortunately they're so fragile. They take such a specific habitat need to make it that there's just not tons of those areas in North America. And trust me, like Wild Sheep Kevin, all those guys worked really hard to try to find the best areas to move new populations in to open up new tag opportunities. Um it says it in the film, and don't quote me, but you know it's basically just under five thousand dollars of sheep. Yeah, I mean the translocation just in of itself, the things that they've done. I mean, I think the stories are well told when the elk populations in Kentucky, Pennsylvania place like that sheep less So I mean to some extent, but less, you know, really less storied than those places. Yeah. Um, and you've seen a lot like your films coming out. There's a film that I work with Ben Masters and Adam Fast and Charles post On about reintroducing uh, those same sheep to Texas in their native range. And you learn a lot from that, and you learn that we are the reason that they're not here anymore. And so why not you know, of all, you know, it's not just hunters. Hunters didn't kill all the sheep in Texas. Uh, He's like ranchers that put domestic sheep there and spread disease. Really, you know, then you gotta habitat fragmentation of different things. I've had to go on. So it's not just a hunter going in and killing them or not just marketing killing. There's a lot of things that that caused that to happen. So you've got to understand that. You know, as much as we're it fault, how many groups other than hunters have taken up the charge too to put these things back where they belong and to care for him. Well, that's just it. I mean, that's why I say, like two people that say it's selfish, I mean, I think you know, there may be is a little bit of selfish aspect to every bit of wildlife conservation. But you know, like we said in Project Out, we shouldn't apologize for it. Look at what it's done. Look what the numbers have done. Look there's no other system in place, there's no other better conservation method across the world. And it's not just hunters will get to enjoy him. Everybody who drove up and down the Gallant and Canyon today got to enjoy that. So you know, there is always a little bit of self serving ness with it, but it's not for big animals, it's not for you know, it's just for the greater good of the herds and making sure that that when my kids kids have a chance to drive up the Gallant And Canyon, hopefully they get to experience the same thing we did. And you know, it's it's habitat. You know, we live in a world where everything's at our fingertips and everything is manufactured and fake, and well, habitats not and it can't be manufactured. And when it's gone, it's gone. And uh, that's why it's awesome that sam And has taken you know, this awareness to make sure that you know, keep the public lands. We have public because we got a pretty damn good right hair, better than anybody else, and it'd be a shame to see all that go away. Yeah, I mean, like you said, there's not like not worried about roads going away. Check the roads, right, But when wilderness goes away, sure we could likely get it back, but it won't be the same. You know, as soon as it's fract as soon as it's mind, as soon as it's that resource has changed forever. And how many how many of the things that we talked about, you know, Sam can can tell you this, especially from yeah, you know, your family's political background. It was like, how many times are we blind the fact that we are fixing a problem that we created? You know, we're even in the honey community, was like, we're celebrating this thing, but it's only because we've funked it up, not we, but three generations of humans again just unregulation and yeah, yeah, and it's not knowing how fragile the resource truly was absolutely yeah, And so I think that's like when you talk about fragile habitat, that's where it's like the reality is a forest fire burns to replace You're like, oh, I see oh crap, I see glaciers proceed. You got to Glacier National Park and watch that go down. You're like, whoa, I get this. Now, that's a tangible way to understand this the change totally. You know, well, the forest fire is different than a glacier as to like, not that you don't know that, but like, forest fires are painful to watch and to see this beautiful landscape get ripped apart. But then you're like, back, yeah, it's almost the it's almost the natural opposite of glacier because that glaciers likely and are in our time not coming back. Yeah, the fact that Glacier National Park won't have any glaciers at some point. Yeah, And they're and they're actively like saying that the folks, Okay, come on over, you got about three years, you know, give me some ice cubes up there or something like that. Right. Yeah, But all those things are just signified the way the landscapes change and the way that we should be as humans. We should be like, well, let's identify those changes and figure out how do we can do it, which is a good way that she hunters have have taken it up to, like we we desire to to chase and kill the most mature animal. In fact, we've just we've we now understand how to and you spend a lot of time studying this, as you were saying, we now understand how to figure that out, how to figure out by looking at an animal exactly how old it is, and then are our state wild Bob just have told us it's got to be that old. If not, that's that's that's a a lee goal is shooting a one year old, for sure. And so all those things I think are just a big part of why I've heard more negative about sheep hunting that I care to count. And it just irks me every time. It's like, if you just just stop and listen and look and read, you'll soon come to find that the easily marketable tag is not any part of the story. It's one tiny little part of it that can easily be flipped. But what can't be easily flipped is what Great Thornton and the Wild Sheep Foundation are doing and what you're helping promote. Yeah, for sure. Now it's a collaborative effort, for sure, and it's it's cool to see, I mean, yeah, sheep at one time where you know, as far as we could tell, we're in the millions in population, and then like way down in the you know, fifty thousand, just seventy thousand and somewhere in there. And and once we recognized how fragile they were and started putting this conservation foot forward and started relocating animals, and I mean we're threefold where we were only years ago on cheap population. So yeah, I mean, unregulated hunting, disease spread from domestic livestock, A lot of things played that factor. But you know, I just don't think we understood how fragile everything was even thirty years ago. You know, you start to realize how everything of an impact it has when you do change even one thing. Yeah, yeah, and it is up to all of us to take care of it. And well, the romantic idea is just to let everything self regulate, right, you'd like, you'd you'd like to believe that nature can just take care of itself, but that would be excluding us from nature. And so you always have to realize that because we're part of it, and because we have screwed things up, like, we need to do a lot to help fix that problem. Even though fifty years from now, we might go, remember when we thought we fixed that problem, but we screwed this up. Now we gotta fix I mean, it's gonna happen. You look back at every generation. Every generation of humans looks back at the other generation like idiots, smoking, well pregnant dummies. Every generation looks back, and so if we're smart enough, we could identify the things we're doing right now that would a couple of years from now you look back and you're like, oh, definitely, prescription medicine and fast food. You guys are dumb. Why were you doing that, idiots? I think that's the cool part about conservation. Conservation organizations like Wild Cheap Is. I think all of them are now more forward thinking when they start to implement plans of you know, whether it be habit habitat restoration or you know, whatever it might be. I think they're starting to look a lot, you know, looking into the past of what we've done wrong, and then looking way further into future like what we need to do to get there. So yeah, sure, it's a good time to shift to another film that you guys did together this time, well how the other films together as well, But um it was called both sides of the fence. What was the official title other side of the fence, both of the fence, UM, Sam, tell me what that was about. So we did a collaboration UM a little bit surrounding the bus project, a little bit surrounding UM. You know, Jason is going to go to the US the facilities and I'm gonna eat a piece of pizza water, I'll start talking. Give me about three minutes to eat this pizza. Sam. Yeah, So we did a collaboration to UM kind of talk about what I was up to with the bus project and public lands and the importance of public lands, and then combining that with the issue of UM kind of where kind of where we've gone in the hunting industry today that anytime somebody you know, takes an animal, everyone always asked the question what was that public or private? And this kind of in fighting that we have now like that some for some reason, you know, shooting in the same animal on private land doesn't mean as much as shooting an animal on public land. And so we wanted to dive into that a little bit and and kind of look at it from both well, I mean, both sides of the fence. The name of the film, But we wanted to look at it from both angles and show that we need public land and we need private land and both need to co exist together because without private land, you have no uh A lot of times you wouldn't have a sanctuary for herds of animals. UM. Late season, you wouldn't have sanctuary for animals. When you know gun season starter, you know when there's a lot of hunters and entering the woods during archery season, UM, you have a lot of animals shift onto places where they can stay safe, the herd can grow bigger. But you also need public land for people to be able to access um enjoy you know, the things that are like you know, people like Teddy Roosevelt and stuff that put in place, but also to access to those places and manage the herds UM. And you can do that without paying anything. It's just being a us or been, I mean, just coming here. You have access to all of that land. So we wanted to look at it from both angles and and show that both are important and we need both. And it's not like it doesn't matter if you hunt private land or public land. It doesn't matter if you hunt with a gun or a boat. It doesn't matter. You know, whatever you do, it's just what you do, and it all needs to co exist together. Do you imagine that just the because public land has become super trendy, Yeah, yeah, super trendy, Like part of that is good and part of that is bad. You know, we've we've we've seen you know, real, I mean all I'm heavily involved. H A. Obviously you are. Yeah, obviously you're involved with Wild Cheap and Army f and in BJ and a bunch of other organizations. Like everybody's sitting at this table as hey, we have a little street cred when it comes to this conversation. But there's plenty of people who are just trying to sell widgets by stamping public lands on them because people will buy it, which, like you said, it's not the worst thing in the world, certainly not something I would lobby against, but it is something that I would bring up. Is like, Hey, let's have this conversation in a honest way. This public land is cool because it's a great feeling, because it's nice back public lands, it's all of ours. It's great, it's American freedom. Or are willing to roll our seas up and go to work on it like what what public land means. So I appreciate that idea about let's understand the totality of especially even driving down the Gallatin River, you go from private land to national forest in the canyon, driving up the Big Sky, I mean, anywhere you go in Montana, that's what you encounter. And I think that's why it gave us a chance to We've dealt with it our whole lives. I mean, there is places you can go and different animals require different hunts, you know. Um, but we've dealt with checkerboarded properties, we've dealt with property lines, we've dealt with you know. And thank goodness for on X to be able to really allow us to know exactly where we're at so we don't end up on the wrong side of where we shouldn't be or whatever. But it, uh, yeah, I think it's it's just and when you grow up around the farmers and the ranchers and and you know you're part of them, and they're part of you in the community, and you see what good they do, and you know, you see what good people they are. You know, all private land is different. And we made that point in the film. It's not all gonna be like going and hunting like the White Mountain, Apache Indian Reservation or the play you know, like Ted Turner's ranch just down at the base of the Gallon Canyon that's got great hunting. I mean, I think the misconception is a lot of people think, oh, private land, it's uh, there's just big stuff. There's just animals everywhere. The opportunity is abundant. And when you live in a place like Montana, you have this grand scale of private land just like public land where I mean, I know private land that the fact that you can drive everywhere, and the fact that you can you know, and these people allow anybody to come and hunt. I mean, it is far worse off than just walking a little ways onto public I'll get into way more stuff there, you know. So just to say your own private doesn't mean there's just vast herds like the savannah out there when you walk out. Now, there are ranches that are, but there's this whole sliding scale in the middle. Some allow one hunters, some allow five hundreds, some allow the family. Some you know, I'm in and it's all different. And trust me, like hunting public land in Montana is the same I've got great public land spots, and I've got spots that used to be good that aren't. And it's just constantly shifting. And I think if you look at you know, the success of a hunt or the quality of a hunt by what side of the fence that animal is standing on. I just I don't want to say you're missing it, because everybody's out there for different reasons. But man, that's not why i'm there. I'm there to enjoy the experience. I'm there to learn about the animals, submerse myself in their world. Here the elk, bugles, smell the smells, get these close encounters, and man, I'll tell you it's never when you get close to an elk, my heartbeats just the damn same, no matter what side of the fence. That if you're somehow calmed at the moment, then elks in your face, there's something wrong with you. We got to talk you a serial, yeah, because that's a you know and like and like we It comes down to a numbers game too. I mean, our percentage is a population is so low now we're almost irrelevant in society, sadly enough. And when you look at I think the most recent number we could come up with was from two thousand thirteen a study that was done on the number of private land versus public and at that time I think the number was thirteen point four million hunters in the US, and of those thirteen points for only one point two million of them hunted exclusively on public land. So if we're going to break it down to you're only a real hunter if you hunt on public land exclusively, and we want to cast aside the other twelve point two millions hunt on public lands exclusive are elitist. There, you know, only one point two million of you. It's a little club. You won't let anybody else in your assholes. It's just a fact. Well it's just you know, like I was having a good friend a conversation with a good friend of mine the other day, David Brinker, we all know him, and he goes, how would you look at me? Am I a private land hunter a public land hunter? And I said, you do both? Think is exactly. I think that's gonna be so many people you ask, but it's become so trendy and so uncool to not say, d I Y did it myself. Public land fourteen miles in basically killed myself. I just don't get it, you know. I look at guys like my dad who have been doing it forever. Are we just not going to call him a hunter now because he can't hike into the back country and killing now that guy has forgot more about six cigars during this private life. My lungs are killing me. Man barely make it. It's a good It's an interesting topic because it comes back to a purity score we're talking about again, Like I've hunted on some private land where I felt like the scenario was such that I should have done more work to earn the thing that I got. So that's one thing that's one private land. That's a little bit more prevalent on private land, and there's on public land just because the nature of the thing. But if you have an ideal and you go out in the in the on the mountain or in the woods and say this is the thing that i'm looking for, here's my ten out of ten purity score, and I'm gonna go after it, you'd be foolish to be like, I'm only going to do public land. I'm only going to do You'd be foolish if the opportunity comes up to achieve the thing you're looking for. Who the hell cares? Who owns it? Who cares? I Like I said, it's easier to have reverence for public land because it is such a you know, majestic idea, and it's an American ideal and all the things like that. That's beautiful, But so is private land. So is homesteading. So it is setting out and and being lucky enough to find some land, and being lucky enough to then own that land and to grow that land and manage that land and have a wonderful heart animals on that land, and then being able as the landowners are select who gets to enjoy that privilege? That's just as beautiful. So well with you guys like Shane Mahoney has said before told us in Phoenix that you know, he's like, private land is the new frontier for conservation. And I think that's just about as simple and clean as he is so good at doing that, you could say it because you think about what if we were only given say we just like completely eliminate private land guys from the equation, and we're only given public lands to manage our wildlife on. I mean that would be a disaster to try to get everybody on the same page. It's not possible. So what you know it, I'll tell you though, you know you're right, there's this level there is nothing more warning, yes, then busting your ass for what you get. Now, that's not to be said. You can't do that on private that I think there's there's where the issue comes, like it's at the end of the day. That's how you feel what's happened there. Like I said, I've had some some private land hunts that were guided that I felt like, man, this okay, yep, I'm glad I get to solve this place and I'll get to eat this animal's flesh and it's all good. All that's good. Like my purity score is like a four. Yeah, you just didn't feel like you really earned it. Yeah, And I didn't get a sense of the place, really a sense of the animal like I thought I should have. That's the way I felt when I hunted Africa. Yeah, I was just there and there's animals running everywhere. You have no idea where they bed, where water is, where they feed, what they feed on, what times a day they like to move. You're just I'm completely lost and was it an awesome experience with my dad? Was it like triple the lifetime? Hell? Yeaut was? But was like the sense that I got from killing my kudu the same as you know, Sam and I bust and are asked to get a shot into nilk. It's not that same, you know, you just you don't feel like you earned it because you didn't understand why you're there. You're put there because well, it's like hunting to Walmart. They're like, well down, They're like, well fuck that. I'd like to just walk around and find one. They're like, well no, we go drive over to the giraffe paddock. There's no fences, but the funder's there right over there. They tend to like tall trees and there's only seven of them. But that's that's how I felt. In Africa. I felt the same way. I just felt like I was hunting some kind of damn like marketing ploy. Yeah, not all is a damn continent, right right. We don't talk about I always say, like, we don't talk about North America like that, like a North America hun that's not a bit. Yeah I was was. It just didn't give me that, Yeah, I was the same way, and not that you know, there's places in the previous strip where you feel like you're in it man um. But where I was was like, okay, I see like and you may even doing New Zealand at all. I have not. That's bucket list though, Sam, and I know a spot, yes we do, and I can check that thing off like the same one I've been down there in In Africa and New Zealand especially, it seemed to me like they have harvested like the worst ideals of our hunting culture and just sold it back to us. They're just like, hey, you wanna you're in Africa, you want to come kill a list of creatures that you have no idea about and will learn nothing about really unless you really push us. Come on, well, so each one, each one of them has a cost fact and you can kill as many as you want conservation. I don't know what you're talking about, but that New Zealand same way, like, hey, come kill a stick, that's what you're here to kill. And I think less Africa more New Zealand in that sense. New Zealand has this like breath of public places and even private ranches where you can have great experiences that what's sold to you is not quite what's there. In Africa, they just they're the entire thing is to value the animals through the dollars. So they are selling, selling, selling, up up selling, selling again to get that value, which is important to them. So both those places, like you're kind of they kind of oversell what's there, and you can't. You gotta kind of erase that and get down to the freaking actual you know, what was actually happening to for me, get the purity score high enough to enjoy the damn Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's a business to them. They got a certain amount of time to run people through, and they've figured out how to do it. You know, you don't get to spend twenty eight days on the mountain Nanimal trying to figure them out, you know, yeahs or twenty one days and not shoot something. Yeah, yeah, which was my elk season, our elk season. I should say, yeah. I don't think people realize how long twenty one days hunting is. That's long. It's long. That's it's long. That yeah, But you just keep thinking, you know, it's like golf, like I just didn't I wouldn't putting good today, but tomorrow if I get the putting down best, Yeah, I want to get the girl out of his green tack at this time. Eventually it's all going to come together. Just one day. That's what keeps you wake up before in the morning you're like, well, day, it's like a lion hunting I had, you know, one year. I remember I was in it, like twenty three days straight checking canyons and no tracks, and I'm like, I can't stop. I mean, if I miss one day, that's going to be the day he crosses and I'm gonna miss it. And it just kept going and going and going, and finally we ended up finding a cat. But man, you're just getting this groove of like, I'm so committed and you know, we've put all this in and we do have more time, and there just might be that chance. Yeah, the rut, you know, might be winded down, but you find that one bowl and it's just those little things that just keep you wanting to chase it right to the end. But the difference between you know, not good and bad, but that's just just the difference between that ultimate like you have that persistent nature throughout your entire hunting life You're eventually going to stumble into some greatness, you know, at least what's perceived greatness, you know, some giant animals somewhere because you were there and nobody else was, you know. That's yeah. I've always said, like, I'm not like successful because I'm the greatest hunter and make all the best moves. I just just time in the field. Eventually things come together, you know, and being lucky enough to have that time in the field. Yeah, that's something not a lot of people get. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I don't take it for granted me either. Well as pizza, there's well cold, but it's still it still looks so good. I don't starting to look like sheep meat balls the same we got Ronella likes to called concluders. Sam. Do you have any uh conclusions from this conversation. I feel like we covered I mean, we we went real deep just on life, and we covered a lot of stuff about conservation. I think kind of take away from this whole thing is just well, I mean, on the life side, like just find what you're passionate about and go after it and just keep allowing those opportunities to happen. And on the conservation side, of things. I think what we're trying to do a good job of is just raise awareness about the possibilities for people to be involved in this type of thing. And now the next step is for everybody listening to go out there and do a little res which on their own and just become part of the solution to helping, you know, make herds better and make hunting better, and um help the community as a whole, hunting community as a whole come together. I think that's the next step for them, Like we can't do what we can you know, talk, we can be you know, be its death. Like people need to be involved, but it comes down to the every person individually, you know, going out there and doing what they need to do to Yeah, save these types of things for future generations. Give what you can. You may not have all the money or all the time, but give the money in the time that you can, whether it's tiny little bits here and there, every every amount counts. Yeah, I mean it kind of goes down to the analogy. Like, you know, when I was a little kid, if I were to like want to take a rock or stick or something, my mom would say, what if everybody in the world took a stick. Would there be any sticks left? You know, And it's just it's kind of the same thing. What if everybody in the world just did a little bit make a huge difference, you know. That's that's it. And I just feel lucky to be here, appreciate the opportunity to talk to you guys, and it's been a pleasure and really looking forward to the rest of the weekend. Yeah, yeah, we're we're This is Thursday. We're into were damn hear in a Friday morning? Now we have we have crossed it. We've crossed into Friday morning. So tomorrow evening we'll be debut in your Circle of Life film Saturday, Saturday. Oh yeah, it is tomorrow. We alright here, what's that's up? Now? You got it? You gotta get the last piece of pizza. Yeah, um, we'll be the debuting that here big sky. Um. And so by the time people hear this that I've already happened. But um, it's gonna be a good event and happy to and there agains just another opportunity to bring people together, celebrated thing that we do that's pretty unique to this place and time, you know, this time because it's the conservation is still fairly new to our humanity, and so is this model of conservation that we have. It's barely unique to this world that we live in. So um, thank you boys for being a part of that. Pretty damn cool. Yeah, I feel lucky. Greg any concluders from you. Greg is full now as shoes are on the bed. He is checked out all right. Thanks to Pizza Works, We're going deep bye. Thank you. That's it. That's all Episode number twenty one in the books. Thanks to Jason Matt Singer, Thanks Sam Soul. Thank you to a boy in the background, Greg pranging out eat pizza late night here in Big Sky. It was a fun conversation. That's what I live for. It gets we pumped up, smart people drinking beer, having a good conversation, and thankfully we get to record it. So episode number twenty one. Hoped you like Episode number twenty two. We're gonna be here in Big Sky again even wise Olympic gold medal skier and the half pipe and then yeat honest tell us from the media crew with Sam Sho joins us once again for episode number twenty two. But before we go this time, I just want to say one thing. And the last episode with Charles post episode or twenty, we mentioned um at the very end briefly that I would be moving to Montana. Now, some folks thought I might be kidding or something notes a month that it might be hopeful, but it turns out it's true, moving to Bozeman, Montana in the coming months. Um. It's a big step for me and my family. We're moving from Texas to Montana. We're excited about that big step and there's other big announcements to come soon what will be the future of the Hunting Collective and really my career as well, some exciting things. Uh. Hopefully everyone will stick with us as we make those changes that are the only helpful to the podcast, to the platform and the message. Hopefully it'll be exciting to you as it is to me, So we'll keep talking about it. Next time on the huntcluc to see and love in all stand and

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