00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number nineteen of The Hunting Collective. I'm Ben O'Brien and today I am joined by shed Crazy also known as Ben Dedamanti and Ben. If I'm saying your name wrong, your last name, I'm sorry, but your first name is awesome. I was joined by Ben for episode number nineteen in Terry Peak, South Dakota. That's a total archery challenge once again. Just like episode eighteen, we hopped into Sam Sohol's public lands bus to talk about Ben's life and times. Ben is a shed hunter out of Utah and he started an online persona that he calls shed Crazy and it is if you're not a following his Instagram account or is other social media accounts, it's a laugh a day, a laugh a minute. Man. The dude is hilarious, and so I wanted to catch up with him see if I could get him to make us all laugh, but also get get a bit of his perspective on social media, a bit of his perspective on the landscape of how people become popular in that in that venue, and talk about some of our other famous topics that we've discussed in previous episodes. So with all that set. Please enjoy episode number nineteen, shit crazy. Well, both of our names are Ben. This could get confusing. How are we gonna do this? I don't know. I'll how we're gonna refer to each other? Ben? Be here? Thanks Ben, ben O Brian Ben never had another Ben on the podcast. Good good, Thanks for being my first other Ben. How does it feel like being a Bend? Is that you feel it's a special privilege or it's almost a burden across the bear Like, let's I feel like it's a pretty good name. Three letters. That keeps it right on my level. So here we go, Benjamin. That's that's the full name is Benjamin. So I never do use it, though I've managed to avoid it for most of my life. I did grow up next door to another kid named Ben. He's my best friend growing up, So I was always Benjamin. He was always ben Jury, ben Jury. Yeah. So if he's listening, you know, it's up, man, shout him out. Shout him out, ben Jury, what's up? It's a random way. How was always Benny? I don't know why. Maybe because I seem a little like a smaller person, childish childish human Benny, Benny ob whatever, whatever, people. Well, thanks for joining me here at the Total Archery Challenge. Yeah. Yeah, uh we did shoot today. We didn't shot today it's raining outside, no um, but we did shoot yesterday, and you shot an apple, yes, off of a deer's nose at sixty seven yards. It was how does that feel? That was definitely the highlight of my round, and I love that That's going to be the moment everyone remembers, because the rest of the shoe was pretty terrible. It was almost like if you shot, you missed a couple of free throws and then I got your own rebound and then stepped back and hit the game winning Yeah, that's exactly how it's like, maybe you only had four points the whole game of leading up everybody terrible games, and then the next thing. You know, that's a perfect, perfect explanation right there. Yeah, it was sweet man. That was I've been pulling right the whole day a little bit, so I just held left a tad. The release felt great. Soon as I let it go, I'm like, oh, so much celebration. Yeah, it feel like screamed like a girl. Actually I don't believe. And he pulled it off. We're talking like six seven yards across a little a little open not a canyon with a little open canyon sounds more. It was across the canyon canyon with the river. And it'll get more impressive as time goes on. Yeah, around a couple of tree. Oh yeah, and was alive, dear. It wasn't a target, it was it really stood there for a long time. Still there actually a good apple. Yeah, but this is an apple as a big as you know, a little bit bigger than a regular apple. It's like a nice gala, like a gala. Yeah, real ripe, nice gala. Yeah for sure. Uh so I was impressed. But what do you what's your thoughts on the Total Archery Challenge? Not that we have any reason to advertise it, but I think that yeah, it is. It's way cool. I think, you know, the coolest thing for me is getting to meet all these people. Yeah, getting rubbed shoulders with people from a different neck of the woods, talk stories and learned a little bit about the things they do. It's been a lot of fun. I enjoy smashing a few dozen arrows here. Sponsored by do you have any air responsors already? Gold Tip, Build tip and the shout out to gold Tip. Thanks gold tip. Yeah, I'll be needing some more arrows for the upcoming shoots. Please, uh, if you're listening, Yeah, I only lost two, but all the airs hit the target, but just not where I wanted him go, which was an issue I found. Yeah, that can happen. Yeah, we had a cool, cool group of people run around mountains shooting arrows. It's not a bad day. It's not a bad way to spend your day. No, it was good man, there's a lot of fun. Um. Well, you're here as a guest of a company called Canvas Cutter, right, and um I mentioned that to say, like you weren't always in the hunting industry, and you weren't probably always traveling to things like this as a guest of any any company at any level. No, no, um, we got to hear the story, kid's gotta You don't have to start at the beginning. You could do like one of those non linear stories where you start out at the end, like a Ronnella story. Just jump all over the place and then you go back to the beginning in the end. It's perfect. The end is the middle. Yeah, anything like whatever you want to do. So five years old, I'm on my bike right right now. It's not. It's pretty basic for me. I've always just been an outdoors obsessed person. I've always if I had time to hunt, I was in the hills. My dad started me when I was just a little kid, and I always knew it was what I wanted to do in some capacity. I didn't know that it would ever be a career. Um, But basically a few years ago started building a little social media following UM and got to the point where, um, I really started entertaining ideas of doing it full time. After I you know, obtained just a little bit of sponsorship and things like that, and pulled the trigger on it full time about two years ago now, a year and a half ago. UM, And uh yeah, I just basically mostly what I do is hunt shed antlers and make dumb videos. And apparently in today's society that could be considered a career. That is exemplar area you are, you're stepping out. Yeah, so now I get to go to events like this and call it work traveling around. It's awesome for me, you know, like I was always doing this stuff in my head when I should have been doing my normal job. Yeah, I was always thinking about hunting and wanting to be at events like this, and yeah, now I get to do it, so I love it. It's great. What was the job before I did? Granted work for about eight years um and then prior about two years prior to doing this full time, I started doing maintenance for the school district where I live. So I was literally a janitor and started, Uh, man, there's nothing that will motivate yet to move and move places. No, I'm just kid. Actually that that work was fine. It was all good. But I had a lot of time on my hands and a lot of time you think about what i'd other be doing, and I found a way to kind of make it happen. Well, I imagine I get this all the time. I'm sure you get it now. But like people, when people ask you, how do you get in the industry? Right, how do you do this? I always say, I don't know. It just happens asking me for I think I had a plan, you think I was like, you know, in eight years, I'm gonna be there. I'll be sitting in the bus. Yeah, I've just been ski even Like, how do you get that blue check mark on it? Right? Oh? Yeah, that is if that means you're official. Yeah. I totally never like have planned out and followed through on a plan on anything in my whole life, and stuff just kind of happens, and I think that's how it's meant to be. Yeah, you just take whatever you're presented and try to make the best of it, and if you're passionate about something, you try to put your head down and work at it. Is there any point where you thought I gotta go back to being yeah, working granted or being a janitor or I failed this thing or it was it always like just I'm gonna keep doing it until it works. Um. Yeah, There's definitely been points where you know you're like, mostly it's a financial question. You're like, oh man, how am I going to get through this month where I know I have to go out find things to film, make content. I don't have the budget for it. What am I going to do? But I believe, like whether you call it fate, the universe, God, whatever you wanna call it, I believe that doors open when you put yourself out there. So I know, like, as long as I keep trying to do what I want to do, that doors will continue to open. And that's it's been every time, good luck. Whatever it might be. There might be a point where I you don't have to go back to working and if I if I do, then I'll just look back and back. It was funny. I doubt that, but yeah, I'm always interested in that. Even myself, I never had a plan of what what it could be. And even get a job or like take a jump like you have, you don't know whether it's gonna end up being right even when you start doing it. You know, I was somebody was talking to me showing to Gray who runs until archer Chong was like, here's my five year plan, and I just kind of have to do get out of here. Five plans are the most waste of time really possible. Yeah, there's so much unknown in that. Yeah, you make a five you're planning, You're like, well, if I just keep going to the five year plan, how much stuff do you miss along the way trying to point your sales towards the freaking five year planning? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, there's other doors, like the doors that opened that you were like, no, that's not near my five year plan can be taking that dream briefit full of money that that wasn't in my plan. That was nope, Nope, that was Now you're sing a check. That's always it's always been interesting to me. But here and you talk about just coming up in your relationship with your dad, and like, yeah, what you know everybody has not everybody. If you're lucky enough to have a dad that took you outside, I think it like sticks, it must stick with you. Yeah. Yeah, It's been the definitely the molding factor for me. You know, like I could never get enough of that time. And I'm lucky enough to still have my dad around. He still loves to hunt. We still get to go together, and now as this kind of evolves, that's becoming a larger and larger part of it for me is just making time to spend with him in the hills. And you know, he still die hard. He loves it, so we get we get out there every time that we every time we can. That's awesome. And then what's the you know you you're did you have? Was shed crazy? Who made that up? I did? Yeah? I came up with that um at work on the clock, So sorry school, my dad. Actually I was working for my dad at the time of grant at work, but yeah, so sorry dad. Um, yeah, I just I had my personal Instagram, and then I was seeing people doing like there's a couple of Shed hunting instagrams and like I can do that. I like the same thing, and uh, like what do you like? I could copy that? So I was like, what's a good name? This will work? And I started posting just shed pictures on there a few years ago, and uh, I started to gain a little bit of traction, and um, after about a year or so doing it. Was actually my wife one day, she's like, you know, I think you're funny. You should do like funny stuff on there. I was like, no, people don't want to see that. They're here to see high quality, polished content. That's what I've been providing over the years. And uh, it's so high it's come down. I cannot improve upon it. And so I finally, after some kicking and screaming, started like posting some of the videos I had on my phone, just dumb stuff I'd come up with over time, and that's when it really started to grow. So she she knew what she's talking about. And I feel like, uh, hunting just needs like some humor. Too serious these days? Oh yeah, man like it's funny, because the portrayal of hunting on social media is this serious thing, but the reality of hunting is like just dudes joking around with their buddies having fun. That's exactly right. And I just like, why why pretend that it's something that it's not. It's fun. If it wasn't fun, why would you do it? It is fun though. I remember all back in the day, was that TV show Jimmy Big Time. You ever watched that show? Uh? It was the guy. Remind me that guy a little bit, but he was. It was a TV show, him just spoofing out their TV and I thought that was the funniest thing in the world. Apparently nobody else did. We wanted to make it nobody. Every time I'd say, man, I love that Jimmy Big Time. People like, shut up, man, that's stupid. I loved it. It's like two hours one time with him trying to put on a tree stand horns and the garage. That sounds like you'd be right up my alley. Yeah, I was like that this is the perfect because this is the absolute perfect thing. But yeah, I always just because we take this thing so seriously and we get these little bubbles where we're talking about you know, people we know and it's all relationships. What about that guy Cam Haynes, you know what's deepen up to? And like we're all we make fun of each other. We laugh like it's not all that freaking serious. Absolutely, Like a lot of the companies that are luckily enough to work with, you know nowadays, I started off the relationship making fun of them, and it was people who just rolled with it and laughed about it, like, oh that's funny. Yeah, we think that's great. And you know some people do, like some people get butt hurt, but most people there's some brands that I know that will go unspoken that are they like branding. Yeah, like they're really worried about their image and there's no humility and their brand as a person would be like the most boring Yeah in front of us. Yeah, like this we're serious. It always has to be serious. It always has to be beautiful. It can't be gritty, it always has to be that's just like that's not how it is. No, you gotta have some kind of you know. I worked for a brand that we did a video about elk milk. Yeah, that was so funny. Like I remember watching that and we uh remember that was like some of the motivation for that cosmic Brownie Amma we did with Mounts a few years ago. That was kind of funny. Yeah, that was classic. Yeah that, I mean, we just I knew that was gonna be good. It's the amount that was people laughed during the filming. Yeah, and how much we laughed watching the edits as they It's just such a good idea. Yeah, Jordan Shipley being the main dude, because I know George Shipley a little a little bit from being down in Austin, and they're like, George ship was going to do a video about milking elk, and I was like, well, that sounds like the April Fool joke right there, right, Sometimes though, you just take a chance and ship ends up hilarious. Yeah, that was epic, man. You need to read the comments on that. People love that stuff and they love to see the lighter side, especially company you know like YEI that puts out super high quality content as the norm built. Yeah, and then like oh yeah, and we can take a joke. Yeah. No. Part of what we always said was like, if your brand doesn't have humility, is one of its main characteristics. Then you're gonna always you're just gonna be at some level you're gonna trying to be too authentic and you're just gonna lose your north star and you're too worried about is there enough mud on that cooler? Man? Yeah? Um concerns me, But is there? Like, have you ever had anybody, you know, take sarcasm and turn it into like rage and man go snowflake on you? Oh? Absolutely all the time and almost all the stories. Oh man, those are my favorite messages to get some people like a lot of it, like what came came through with the hushing guys, because I started off just kind of making fun, poking guys even before I really knew them that well personally, you know, just taking jabs and dude, Eric Chester has the most the most violent fans, the defenders like, if you say something bad about him, dude, prepare your inbox. I just get these kids like you don't know him, you don't talk about him, like that's just the dumbest little things. But um, yeah, just just comments on posts. People take you completely serious. You're an idiot. Yeah, I know I know that. That's why why, That's why I'm trying to be funny. Yeah, I love it. I love when people just totally miss a sarcasm, and it's almost like an inside joke because there will be a whole bunch of people making sarcastic comments, and then there's always one dude that's like, I don't think that's a very good portrayal. Okay, well like yeah, okay, So yesterday I posted a a picture of a deer. You know, I had some long blood on the side of it, right, And this guy comments, why does it have silly putty on the side of it, right? And this other guys like that's long blood, because like, no, it's not. That's He's like, that's silly putty. He's like, Jake crazy, help us out. So I commented on there and I'm like, I don't know. I was playing the silly putty that day. And I also shot that during the lung so it could be like who knows, and it's so funny. I love it. I love it when they missed the sarcasm. That's my favorite thing. Idea just your style. I always think, like I guarantee there's dudes out there that are like what a dick. I can't believe you would say that about Casey Butler, that's what's wrong with the hunting, And yeah, that's exactly what's wrong. Yeah, he does look like that guy. I love it. Who does Casey Butler most look like celebrity? Does he most resemble to you? I don't know he looked. People tell us we look like like I had. I've had people full on mistake me for Casey and the other way around, like just people who have never met us before. You know, Casey said he was I think he was at the X one. Some came somebody came up and like asked him how how the sad Hunt was going this year? It was crazy. It's had a great year. It was a crazy crazy. He probably plays me. Who's he looked like to you? Jack Black? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I can tell her to see that. Yep. Yeah, And I'm gonna have to ask him about that. And he's gonna get a Jack Black personality too. He's hilarious, dude, Casey. Every Budy should get the chance to hang out with him for a while. The funniest you laugh your ass off the entire time. But yeah, I don't know who we were riding back from. I think Calahan or somebody was like, you know, Casey looks like Jack Black. Yes, yes he does. He looks exactly. Like that's funny, that's good. Is there any like from being on social media? Do you do you think you learned things about how to interact with people in the hunting industry? Are you concerned about honey? Social media does to your psyche as you function through it as a job. Yeah, like it definitely so for me. The thing that I noticed is that it's really easy for people to become egotistical, like myself included. You know, like you get to where you show up somewhere, people know who you are, you know what I mean, and like even the small, small amount of whatever do you want to call celebrity, but like being recognized, it's super easy to let it go to your head and just like start thinking that you're something Like I remember the first last or maybe a couple of years ago, I went to the expo in Salt Lake and it was like I had a lot of people coming up to me and I was like, oh my gosh, remember I made it. Were driving home and being like you are not that big of a deal, bro, Like you need to shrink your head down a little bit, right, Yeah, great, you know, I experienced kind of the same thing. It's funny that, like everybody goes through that, you know, if you ever get everybody that's famous went through that hump where it was like nobody knows who I am. I'm just one of the regular guys. All of a sudden, I'm one of the I'm one of the guys that some of the regular guys come up to right and say, like, cool stuff, bro right, And I find that most people just come up and say cool man, love it, yeah, and they go on. But then some people, you know, close talk, you show you a lot of pictures in the phone, a lot of their phone. Yeah. Yeah, but just getting over that hump is super odd. Yeah it is. It's kind of a weird. It's kind of a weird space, like when you're not used to it at all. Yeah, I live thirty two years that anybody were coming up to me and saying like, oh, I know you from a thing. And then people started saying that like yeah, but it doesn't matter, and that can't matter. That's what you have to keep reminding yourself, is that like, yeah, just because I know who you are, doesn't mean you're special. Yeah, it can't matter, and I've always I've tried. I don't know what you do, but I try to, like ask questions about the person that I'm talking. If I don't know them at all and they've listened to this or see something somewhere, I'd much rather know who they are. Then they imagine they've already heard my ass talk a lot. And the same in your case, what do you do? You just try to keep it, Yeah, the same thing. I just try to, Like, I try to try to say something funny. I feel the pressure to do that. I was gonna ask you that if you're not funny in this podcast, I'm like trying to say, like, jokes, jokes, you've been practicing these for two days. Two ducks walk into a bar. No, Like it's funny because it kind of is like real life persona the Instagram, the Instagram thing. It's dumb, but I mean it exists. Well, yeah, because you think, like Instagram is a filtered version of your reality. No matter how much you do go live or whatever you know, go into the story, it's still a filtered version of reality aversity, and there's nothing you can do about it. Right like you, And you can't post your entire reality because then there would be you know, and no one would like me. What Actually, that guy is an asshole. So that's funny that we were talking about um Cam Haines the other day. And I know Cam all enough, he wouldn't mind the US talking about him a little bit in this way. But the key has when you meet him, he's quiet and humble and the nicest guy. And I've heard this about a lot of people in the industry that are you know, quote unquote celebrities that they're you know, I don't know about that Donny Vincent guy. And then when I talk to people, they're like, oh, what a great dude. You know Sam Soul, who's bus we're on right now? Thank you Sam Um I went on a hunt with him. Say he's a great guy. Yeah, he's a great guy. But he filters those those guys filter themselves into the Internet just in a different way. And I've I've been just I tell people all the time, you just gotta separate that stuff absolutely, Like if you separated, there's a guys people are doing what they're doing, especially for you. When it becomes a business, all of a sudden when people are paying you for that filter. Um, it's just different. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think like what you're saying to about like really getting to know people in person is so valuable because I had preconceived notions about so many people, like they are quote unquote in the industry, or like just ideas, like people will come up and tell you all you know, that guy's an ass or this and this, but you have to meet people, sit down and like get to talk to him because most of the time, like, yeah, people have beefs or whatever. But it seems like everybody I meet is just nice. Yeah, man, I don't there's I've may a career just knowing people, and that's part of my job right now. And I can't tell you if a handful of people that I wouldn't want to have a beer with. And I can tell you a good number of those folks those instagrams I just don't follow because it's not my kind of big um. But it doesn't mean that they're bad people. It's just they're filters. What they're filters, They choose to focus on one thing or look a certain way, and it's weird. I mean, it's just a weird situation. I've always I was telling asking Casey and those guys the same things, Like you start to put yourself out there and then all of a sudden, without you don't even knowing you start you change and shift based on people you talked to or experiences you have, or sponsors that you might have, and the pressure to post this many times a week or to fulfill those types of things. Yeah, just I don't know how do you deal with that ship. I think that I just try to never like fake it because it has to be done, you know, like they tell you, people will tell you like post twice a day, posted posting times, but like if I don't have, if I'm anything to post on my phone, like I'm not going to make something up just because I feel like I need to. And I feel like you lose your authenticity in a lot of ways if you're just like Armture number posting right, And I think, like as dumb as it is, you should do it when when you want to do it, when there's something that you want to share, and I don't know, you know, don't get caught up so much in like the oh I'm trying to build, so I have to do it this way. Authenticity is what people want to see. They want to see be your real self. They want to see what you're up to, and and that's what works. So many people get caught up in the numbers. They get caught up in the Oh, I have to do it a certain way. I have to follow this plan if I want it to be this, But then your real self could be something different. Like your real self, you're funny as hell, so you can turn the camera around and talk to it. It's entertaining occasionally, Yeah, well okay, once you're twice then that's all you need. Keep keep replaying this viral. And for me, I came up as a journalist, and so I was trained not to turn the camera myself, like I was trained to document and and report on what's happening, is opposed to like turning around. So I don't I don't do good with that, but doesn't mean how many better than somebody that does just that's myself, that's what I do. I wouldn't change that just to get more likes, because that's never gonna work. It might work in the short term, but yeah, certainly not in the long term. Well, people that look like us. You know, we don't have that many. We have to use our personalities. It's hard. Yeah, Like I always tell people, if I was good looking, dude, i'd be so famous. But yeah, I mean, he's really like living in a bus all he has it all. He lives in this bus here. He's this handsome man travels the world and ube it does. He does live in a bus, though, that's challenging for him. I think our demographic maybe, like in the hunting world, that's not a cool thing. In the snowboarder like snow bunnies would dig the bus and wyll be all about it. It's a nice bus, got burlap windows. That's pretty trending. I think that's bur lap of some kind um that it's interesting to me. This is all interesting because as much as people might not want to listen to you, guys talk about Instagram all day, it's the main way people interact with me that don't know me. That's the main way people interact with you that don't know you. And so the ship is relevant, and it's relevant in a way that like I always sit and think about, how's this shaping me? What am I doing that I shouldn't be because of this. What could I be doing to better utilize this thing? And that's important because if you're not doing that, then you're just following the trends, right, And I think about like, I think about that a lot, as you know, as it relates to the ethics of hunting, you know, because for the longest time, it was just what ever, Um, I'll post whatever I want. You know, I'm not worried about offend anybody. I don't care um. And then I realized like it was starting to alter the way I hunted a little bit because I was starting to care, like about the possibility of introducing someone to the sport through Instagram. If somebody stumbles upon something that I did and that's their first impression of it or you know, it could possibly shape their impression of hunting. Isn't something that's positive or negative. So I think that like the fact that I know whatever I'm gonna do is gonna end up in social media in a lot of ways, compels me to be a little bit more ethical, try to make better choices. So I think it has its positives and its negatives for sure, But that's one of the positives that I see. Thank thank god, you took it that way because a lot of people do the opposite. You're filming me, I'm going to be a complete idiot. Yeah, try to get attention, and some people like I'm getting attention, I should do it the right way. At least you bounce it out a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I know. I find and that with me. And then I wonder if I took away social media and I was just hunting for my self again, and how if I would act completely different, or if if I would treat the killing of the animal in a different way. Yeah, how I would, How I would do it? Why would what animals I would kill? Would I'd still be chasing big ones to get admiration, or would I just not care and shoot the first one? So I just wonder. I don't know. I guess I'll probably never know. Yeah, it's never going Yeah, I'm not going to erase all social media for purpose of my experiment. Not today. Not today. That's give me all those small bucks, the medium dollars, right, I really love Well, there's a lot of people, you know that are having opposition to social media or whatever and love it or hate it. You know, it's it's a major part of the culture of what hunting is today, and it's definitely how the younger generation consumes media. So the people that we're trying to get involved for the future of hunting, you know, that's where they're going to live in that space, and so everybody has a little bit of responsibility to make sure they're doing it in a way that it doesn't hurt you know. No, And I think that I haven't brought up the grip and grin in a few episodes that was getting heavy. But when I was thinking about recording with you, I'm like, I gotta Yeah, this is gonna be We're gonna get deep on the grip and the grins. Yeah. Um fice to say, like I don't care that much about grip and grins, Like I really don't, but it became a conversation. I think it was more about what you're talking about, um, because I went on the Gritty Bowman and I was having a bad day at the Archer Trade show. Yeah, And it wasn't being a little sick. It's a little fed up seeing grip and grins everywhere and and celebrating this like I killed an animal who sing And uh, I just said, let's just not do that anymore. We just not do that. I had said that before on on Instagram, but didn't feel like I needed to repeat it, needed to make it like a marching cry of mine. But then uh, I got the A T and I'm like, Wow, this is still pretty prevalent. This is still the banner that people want, hang um, and so I just want dug that a little deeper. Yeah, just might as well as well. And then every subsequently, everybody I talked to you and every other person who wants me to have their own that whatever media thing they're doing, wants to talk about that subject. Um, So suffice to say, let's have at it. Tell me what you think about. So for me, I am about genuine emotion. So whatever you feel in that moment, I feel like it's okay. Because when I kill an animal, I act stupid, I get giddy, I laugh, we hoop and holler, you know, like that's just that's me. That's not even why I was raised because my dad's very stoic, you know. Um. So that's my genuine reaction to it. And that's for me probably a culmination of all the work that went into it, or just the excitement of the moment. That's how I respond, and I think that that's okay. I think it's okay to what to have whatever genuine emotion you have in that moment, because I see people who are like, you know, all happy and excited, and then they try to act sad or they try to act they try to act right, And I don't think it's necessarily disrespectful to to smile, to grab a whole of them, to take a picture and show that emotion that's there. I think that it's a little bit disingenuous to try to use two big of a word that was disingenuous. Hit it anyway. I think I think it's a little disingenuous to show only that part of it, to be like, this is the experience, you know, this is what I did. I killed an animal, and this is all you're gonna see. UM. A lot of what I do with YouTube and everything is trying to show the whole thing. You're you're gonna show the scouting period, You're gonna show the hunt, the stock to kill, the trophy photos. Probably it's going to be a part of that for sure, the butchering, the cooking, the consuming, all of it. I want to show the whole thing anyway, because I think the whole experience is awesome. So people get focused on that one part of it and they try to act like that's the whole experience. But I think as long as it's a part of the big picture of the hunt, it's just fine. And if you genuinely have emotions where you're sad in that moment or where you feel out of respect, awesome, show it if that's what it is, but don't fake it. Yeah. No, And i've recently I'm not sure when this started to happen or why, and it is super Somebody asked me when I was like hushing with you, why didn't you do anything? And I was like, recently, over the last probably two years, when I kill things, I go frequiously dead, like freashly calm, and I don't have I like get this serene feeling of like calmness, because you ramp it up and then I think my body must be like calm, don't you know, don't celebrate, just be completely emotionless at the moment. And um, that's been only the last couple of years, and it was nothing I ever did to try that just started happening, and I thought like, okay, do I should I At some point a couple of years ago, I thought, well, should start to smile jump around when somebody's filming it, because it looks pretty weird. If I just stand over the animal without any emotion, it looks like I'm kind of an asshole about the serial killer. Just stare at it bluntly. I've done it onto the next no emotion, but it's it's less. It's not a lack of emotions. It's just the calmness that is the emotion. Um. And so to try to unpack all that, yeah, like you said, it's challenging, I think to try to unpack all that and present it in a way, especially when it's not when you're filming it, it's it's happened. You can edit it, take parts away, but you can't really do much to add. But when you're when you're not filming it, when you're presenting it via a picture by picture or a moment by moment in a little clipp its snippets, it's you can change those things. Yeah, And I'm almost I don't know, and I take a photo and I'm just like stoke and sitting by an animal that is exactly anybody that's hunted with me and seem to kill something that's a hundred percents away that I am one pents away that I am, and that's not it's the same as like you said, same as somebody like just jumping up and cheering and laughing, same thing. All those things are genuine. Yeah, it's just you never know how it's gonna affect you. That's one of the coolest things about it. It's like I've seen people, I've seen people cry, I've seen people freak out, and see people do exactly what you're talking about, be calm, and that's that's what's cool about it. Like it's different for everybody. It's a that's the personal element of it, you know, Like hunting is personal because it's different for everybody, and I think that's the way it should be. Yeah, well then it comes down to so percent agree with you on that part. And I've never said that, Like I've taken a million group of goods in my life. I don't think it's I don't think it's wrong, But I wonder if there's parts of our hunting culture that have been so bastardized that we can't get him back, and it's most most our fault. Like like I said, when you go to the A T A and you walk into a certain Bow Companies booth and there's like trading cards with guys with big dead animals. They're not spikes and forkeys know that these guys are sitting by the gans. These are trading cards. Have got like you're a good hunter because of this animal that died. Yeah, no context as to where it was killed, what the circumstances, you know. And I've talked to green Tree about it. Here's a trading Cardrabaal green Tree with the giant deer. That means he's a pro. He did this is him? So I think we have a large parts play in that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think that for so long in the hunting world, that was a culture, you know, like and people would be ashamed to show if they killed the small deer. And you know, I've never felt like that. I've killed a ton of small deer and I was excited on every one of them, and the whole life was small deer. Yeah. And it's the sad thing for me too, is like a lot of the time, I know, growing up, like I would see it year. I would want to kill it. I would kill it. I'd be excited, and then I'd be like, oh, everybody's gonna say something because I killed another two by three, like the famous for shooting two by three's right, and that that sucks. That sucks that that's something you even have to worry about a kid. I mean, I remember killing my first dear man. I was fourteen years old. There was a mule deer with my dad. Couldn't have asked for a better experience, right, hike up skip school. Killed this deer in the foothills above our hometown. Awesome experience. And I remember like going to school and I knew my buddies like, oh, I'm gonna ask if I got a deer, and I was worried, like they're gonna make fun of me for shooting this deer. And that sucks. It sucks that that's part of it because it should just be a positive experience. And that's a that's a great point too. And then to the point about the group and grand trading cards, it's like that's almost tellent people you can be a pro and be sponsored when you kill a big thing and as holy not true, right, like you could be the best hunter in the world and every once in a while kill a big one and most of the times kill a small like it doesn't matter at all. And you can manufacture if you have enough money and time and sponsors, you can manufacture your own hunting greatness. Absolutely, because we talked. I talked to us as with Casey nobody. It's not like golf for any other sport where there's a guy commentating live when your activity right, you could go out hunt private land, shoot a giant bull, pay twenty grand and then use that as a way to make yourself look like a competent, world class hunter. Absolutely, And so when you started equating the animal with the success, you're gonna create feelings like you had that sucks man. Yeah, yeah, And that's that's the way to I agree with you, Like it seems like, I don't know, you can definitely buy that that success in a way. And as as you become more successful, especially in the industry, and then maybe you have a company that's paying for your hunts or you have whatever else, then it's like, oh he's more successful. Then it like legitimizes you. But really all you do is have opportunities that you average Joe wouldn't have well in those companies. The expectation of those companies the same. You know, I'm sure there's companies are like, well, we can't give this guy money to sponsor him unless he's out there whacking giant animals all the time, because that's how we know he's good. It's like, man, I don't know, how do you know he's good? Are you if you're with him every time? Maybe you do, but it would be just is good And you know I do that for a living now. Sponsor folks. It's like, man, I just look at their philosophies as opposed to their results, because the results are not indicative of the dedication to to the thing. No, yeah, you have to understand the circumstances to go with it. You know. You look at these guys and they might be holding the white tail buck that wouldn't really raise an eyebrow if you were to put it up at a show like a t A or like that. But it's a public land buck, and the things that they had to do to a pumplish that are are much more difficult than than you know, some of the other circumstances you can see these giant deer, and so it's just not Yeah, that picture itself doesn't really represent the entire story. Yeah, and that's hard too, because I don't want to take away because you talk about the grip and grins in and of themselves, like that guy who just killed that for key and takes a grip and grin, but he just the deer's laying there. He jumps behind it. He's excited, like my picture due And that's the picture of like, oh my god, as opposed to the guy who shoots the the animal, puts it in the back of a truck, drives it to the vista, sets it down, dumps water on it, scrubs it off, puts his you know, his sponsor items in front of it, turns it to the camera professional cameraman, and then do those things feel That's completely different. And so there's no way that I, me or you or anybody saying like, don't do that, right, it's impossible, But it is like, don't do that one version of it because that Fox hunters and as a little butter on the bread messes with too. Yeah, like it screws us a little bit, but it really screws us in the non hunting world. Yeah, because that's the that's what they see, that's the snapshot. And you know the way that social media work with algorithms, those are gonna be the pictures that are most liked because they're coming from not only companies who are maybe pushing their guys, but also a person who's gonna have a little large social media following. So when they explore something a hashtag that might be hunting a reallydy, they're gonna see those top posts and it's gonna be six guys with Giant Bucks. Yeah, no, it's true. I'm sure you're the same way if I if you or I you, and it's tell me if I'm wrong on this. But if you post for me, as if I post picture of meat or a dead animal with me behind it, give way more likes. And if I just post like a picture of you know, some random hunting activity or me hiking around or somebody with plants mushroom here's before plants, didn't find it like six, I gotta hurry up kill. Yeah. Well that's the truth of it. Yeah, the truth of it, and the truth of it is also is a grip and grin versus like some other type of dead animal celebration shot is more popular than than one that isn't. Yeah, yeah, and I'm always curious to know too, and like that's what the cool things about social media. Go back through and look and be like, what's the most popular, what's the most like things I did or whatever? And that's always the deer I killed. It's usually the gripping grin for me, Like in my space, if I find a giant set of antlers. The ball was doing really well, but it's funny, the funny. The most popular thing I ever posted wasn't. It was a drawing of me naked with an elk shit over my shoulders in Paler Lacey did and then yeah, my logo actually I just came up with was the most popular picture I've ever posted. This one lest Yes from the artist friends. I gotta get friends that are are I could take up with that guy. He's amazing. Yeah, that's legit. It's crazy to get artwork. Yeah, he's thoughtful and way he does it too. Yeah, that conversation will probably go on for everybody. I think it's just indicative of our inability as a group to decide how to depict this complex thing that we're doing because it isn't. I almost wish maybe we can recruit. We would talk about recruiting Jim Nance to come on, yeah with soft voice, Yeah there you Okay, Ben steps up the box, walking in, box walking in. Then he missed it again. Oh my god, that's the third time this week. At least if that happened, everybody would know who's good news bad as opposed to the other way around. Yeah, I agree totally. Like there's no and getting the whole hunting industry to agree on anything cohesive. It's just, you know, there's not one point that we all anywhere near you know what I found this week too, And I'm guilty of it so much. It's like we're like a bunch of little like little ladies, a little submitting circle. Hey, you hear about old David what they do? Like, oh my god, I heard about Davi. And then everybody's like that camel does match. Yeah, you've got two different patterns, Like what if it was a woman? Yeah, you can't hunt if you have two different patterns on uh, yeah, we get in clicks and the things. It's just any group of people. Yeah, that's but I've noticed that this week and I'm like noticed that in myself a lot lately. It's like, come on, man, be better than that. Friends. We'll be talking rumors about what's happening the group of friends, hot gossip on the trail totally. Yeah, that's the way it is, man. It's just we should come out with the bodies, like total archery guysipal An, I heard, you know what I heard. I heard the guys that came as cutters are terrible shots. They can't shoot a bow. They're only in the hunting space because they couldn't make it in the survival space. That's right. That a guy Seth I heard he takes steroids up absolutely yeah, his aluminum arrows and barely make it. Sorry aluminum, Yeah, we tell. I told them with Cole on the last podcast, Guy's probably talked about everything. It was a two. It was deep cold, interesting though. And his Southern voice is so soothing, you know, yes, yeah, I guess he's from Kansas, but at the South, the South, he is a soothing soul. Yeah it is. But yeah, I always wonder about how how you come off when you're it's it's such an intense group of people and they're all we spend a lot of time around each other, hunting and doing all kinds of stuff this weekend. In all honesty, I don't even know why I'm saying it on the podcast, but I just felt like a chatty Cathy, felt like I was like talking about something else. Yeah, I feel like a fucking gossip Yeah. Just that's the way it is. Man. It's just so much of that gets float. And that's why I like we're talking about earlier. It's so important to get to know people because if you just went on what you heard this, you think this whole world is a lot worse off than that's right. Yeah, and then you meet, Like I said, I'm ninety percent of people I meet that are love hunting completely awesome, just like we have so much in common. Yeah, it's easy. Yeah, it's super easy. That's another one I find myself. I hang out people that don't hunt. I'm like, man, this is a chore to get to know you. It's like, I don't want to talk about your beach chairs. Why don't you just hunt and then we could be friends, Yeah, because otherwise I don't want to know you. Yeah. It's funny, man, Like, once you get into this hobby, it's like it swallows your whole world doesn't and can take this on. Like I we're talking yesterday about sports and how like you used to care about sports. I still watch it, but I don't care about it anymore. I used to fish like crazy, fish crazy, whatever, no, all kinds of stuff, and now it's just like hunting to swallowed everything. Yeah, I had a buddy. Now you get too depressed. But I had a buddy passed away in the industry some years ago, and um, he's a popular guy in all aspects of life, and um we went to his funeral and it was like a trade show. I was like, this guy is thirty eight years old, has a family, two kids, lives in his hometown, and of his funeral we're industry people. Yeah, because, as you said, it's his whole life. Was that Yeah, you know, he got up a you know, his family and his industry family is legitimately what it was the people that were there when when he was going. So yeah, you think about that too, Like this is pretty important to me and you, right, because it's that's a lot of our time spent putting energy into this group of people, definitely away from family, you know, it's we're prioritizing this to be here on a day like this. So yeah, and it makes you ask some bit of questions to like what's this all about? Like? Is there actually good to be done here? Is this recreational? Like is it possible for a hobby to really like swallow your whole life? I mean, I guess it is. There's probably people who basket weave that are just as passionate as we are. Who knows, but I hope so. So I gotta I like baskets. I like them to be what woven. Well, yeah, I'd like to be built for the wild. Yeah, I like this bullshit baskets. It's just yeah, it's just one of those things. What's it seems like most people who really become passionate about it, it's like that's your thing, and yeah, and I wonder if that makes you better or some the business of it makes you more selfish. It always has to at some level. I wonder if this a passion for it and the surround your stuff with those people makes you better at it. But I wonder which side of that probably wins out. I don't know. I think there's a lot of people who have no part in this who know nothing about this that are probably excellent, you know, Like I always look at my grandpa. My grandpa's a killer. He's a I mean, as long as I've been alive, he's been killing deer, and he's not he always wants to kill big deer. Not a trusty hunter by any means, but he has if he would not understand this world in one bit, you were talk to him about it. Oh yeah, there's an archery shoot and everybody sits around in the bus and talks into heads like, yeah, that's more stuff I don't care about. I don't care about that. I'm just a hunter. Yeah, no, yeah, I think when you're in the industry and you start to make a profession of it, it becomes totally absolutely, totally different. And then you're talking about in the headphones on the bus. Next thing, you know, I don't know what you're saying, where it's any good, whether it's please stop listening now, it's gonna go crazy. Yeah, I don't know. I'm probably more introspective in times that I'm not chasing animals. But yeah, and it's funny too, because that's when it all shuts up. There's all this noise with social media, there's all these pressures with companies, with all this stuff, and then when you actually do the thing that you're all about, all those things are out of your head and you focus in. And that's what it's all about for me, Man, I'm only the only difference that I can tell you from when I was a kid until now is I just you're gonna understand more as you get older, You're always gonna grow understand more. But like the feeling of understanding the totality of our lands, m is the one thing that's changed to me over time, and it continues to change, the totality of knowing, Like I could raise my kid in Texas where he's not going to know what it feels like like we're you know how you grew up right, and how a lot of people out west grow grow up that there's this expanse that's accessible to you. Maybe you yeah, you might just want to go run or bike on it, but you might want to jump in and hunt on it. But it's there for he is part of your life and you don't have to question it. And there's people like you and I older as your kid, there's people out older that are they're protecting it for you to make sure it stays there. Yeah, I think that's cool, and I have that's the one change in me as I've had a kid, and I know you have a couple too, That like the one thing that's changed in me to think it's pretty important to understand that. Yeah, something I totally took for granted growing up. Yeah, me too. I didn't know, Like, it's not my mind. We're recreating on public land. You know, we just always had a place that we could hunt, lots of places. It was never It's one of the beautiful things about about where I live in Utah. You know, it's just surrounded by public land that was always private too, but you always had a lot of places that you could go and usually places you could still go and get away from people. Yeah. No, And there's you know, if you were if I would take you and PLoP you in Texas right now, you'd be miserable because there just isn't that reality. You have to go around them, befriend ranchers um to get access. And I found like big animals, small animals, elk, meal deer, there's ty stubblefield pH it's waving um and we're talking about public lands. Do you think he do you think he's just started tingling and he came over. Yeah he's that good. Yeah he's a conservationist. Um, what are we talking about? Tis Trews talking about Texas and yeah, I think if you access further as access to there. But yeah, I think living in Texas, I just look around. People don't know, they don't know what they don't have, they don't know. And then when you start to know, they're like, WHOA, I don't want my kid to you know, not have this and to have to go down to the local you know, Texas Park with a thousands of people swimming hole and try to experience the outdoors. Like that's not gonna do it, man, do it. It's crazy. Like having kids changes so many things like that, just exactly like that, and you started thinking about the world your kids going to grow up in. Man, I hope, I hope that our kids have have that place, like like I was lucky enough to have growing up because that's what that's what molded me into the human that I am. Not that that's that's spectacular, but those those times making me a person on Instagram. Um, but yeah, like we grew up. My parents live on the very edge of town. Um, and behind us is just like a million acres of land. You know, It's just huge. And I grew up every day taking the twenty two or will be begun and going and chasing cotton tails. And that's what I did. Yeah, me and I was growing up with green Ridge, Stay Forest and U World's turkeys. He we didn't hunt a lot a lot, but we hunted enough for it to be a huge part of my life. Um. And yeah, if you if a kid that beer we're getting over bud light, We're not taking it. I love you TI think. Um, yeah, I hunted enough to to to have that in my head that that was there and mine or ours, whatever the case. That's the one thing that's changing me over this time. And do you have anything like that that other than that land, Like if you have kids and you try to look around and and even you know, talking to Casey And another good point I'd love to hear from you is like nobody retired, has retired from YouTube or of Instagram or any of that stuff. Nobody. There's nobody you can say, like, yep, I was doing it for thirty years now, I'm just taking my pants. I'm just now I'm retired, so I want Yeah, I think about it that stuff all the time too, So there's like three questions in one and go. So I think the biggest thing for me is UM and the coolest thing for me about it is the ability to like mold it into something that is family oriented over time. UM. The creative the ability that you have to do whatever you want with the creativity side of it, UM is huge for me as my kids grow, I just like, I want to turn it into something we do together where that's our that's our job. I look at the time I spent working a job, you know, I just never got that quality time not home a few days at a time, and that's that's everything for me. And when you see these little kids too, I mean, anyone out there that's kids understand it. You worry so much about the world that your kids are going to grow up in. I look at the hunting as a whole, and I see the positives and the negatives of of everything that's going on. Um. You know, there's such a negative perspective of hunting in the world today amongst people who really don't understand it. And I wonder what kind of challenges they'll face, you know, even how much harder it's going to be to hunt because of the gun issue in the future. And so those are some of the things that like definitely occupy my mind. Um, and then you know, obviously the stuff that goes on with public lines issues. But I guess the most important thing for me is just like to see what I can do to ensure that they have what I had when I was growing up. So I know it's probably a terrible answer to three questions, but that's kind of what I think. Like an interviewer, you don't want to give three Hey, there's three really important questions at once at one time. Yeah, no, I think, Yeah, it's I'm interested. I guess I'm doing it myself too, but I'm more I'm not on my own. I mean, I work for somebody pays me a salary to do it, so it's different. You know, you're shaping, like you know, once you jumped out of the nine to five, now you just it's your thing to shape, right. And then as you get I think when you probably you can tell me if I'm wrong. But in the first couple of years you're just running at it, and then at some point when starts to get successful, you have to sit back and go, I don't need to do my five year plan, but I need to Is this gonna be our Yeah? You just want to make sure they're going to have food on the table. That's that's for like the first little while for sure, And this is gonna be all right for them, you know too, you know, Yeah, that's something I've actually talked to Casey about. Two is like, so say this does go really big? How much you know, do you want to show your kids to the whole world, you know, because that becomes that's a concern right now. You know, there's definitely people out there who are seeing what you're doing that are creepers, and you better not be listening. Creepers. If you're listening, you turn this ship off or don't watch my channel, don't unsubscribe. I need the number, I need that impression, I need that engage. But also, but yeah, what do you do? I mean, I heard Casey say one time, it's like a family business. You know, if you have your kids don't necessarily have a choice. If they're going to go to work at the family business, they have to do it until they can choose for themselves. So yeah, you just gotta walk a fine line between putting them out there and also not revealing too much. Well, you have somebody like Eva SHOCKI did you have a vice who knows she'd go She went full bore. And I've talked to her a little bit of or not. I'm like, I'm not friends with your shocky, but we I know her, she knows me, and like I asked her because we have kids that are just about same age and we're her and I an' same age, and I think she just like, go all in. If you're going all in, if you're gonna put yourself out there, don't be afraid to put your family out there and make it, you know, make it normal. Yeah, And I think that's the there's like a positive to negative ratio and all this stuff, right, And I get so many people that come up to me that are like, I love that you do stuff with your kids. I love that you guys go on like a little adventures together. I have kids, we love to do similar things. And I think the positivity that comes out of that will always dwarf the potential for a negative result. Yeah, Yeah, I mean I recently my wife got on me. I recently wrote an article for Pearsonce Honey magazine. It was about I won't go through the whole article. It was about Pittman Robertson that was calling for subsequently calling for a backpack tax on the outdoor industry. It's pretty harmless article, didn't really make a big stink. But there was a guy on YouTube. I won't mention his YouTube channel, but he made a video about me, calling me a liberal scab or a liberal obviously, yeah, everybody knows that. Let's progressive, absolutely in every way possible, calling me like a liberal spy hunting industry. And then he stole a bunch of photos off my Facebook and set them to music and then made mother made some other put some other evidence up to bear about my being a liberal. And um, I made the mistake and mentioned that to my wife, and her first reaction like shut it all down. Shut down the Facebook, shut down the Instagram. That somebody is making a musical video of you about you against your will, it's time to shut that down. That sounds like that's probably a pretty good point, but that crazy dude is one crazy dude. There's no he can't change the hundred positive emails that I get, nor would I let that guy. And that's good that you won't let him. Yeah, he didn't. That that doesn't deserve a voice. Although I was very impressed by his is editing. It was well put together. I don't know hopefully had licensing for the music. I was a little concerned for he might get really good hum get in trouble. But yeah, you put yourself, put your ideas out there, and this is what it is, put your life out there. So it's all the way. It'll be. Like I've I've had some real like you know, a few just negative type people pop up like that that just like I don't know if they're there to get a reaction, But yeah, that pops up from time to time. But I always just have to look at the numbers. Man, it's always a thousand and one positive. Well, like you said that, I think most of those folks I've found, they say something crazy and you react and then they back off, some back off, some getting something up sound. Yeah, it's funny. It's a funny thing like I find myself though, like getting caught up in a little bit where I'll scroll past a hundred positive messages to that one where they're telling me I'm an idiot. I'm like, oh yeah, trust me, I'm not a thousand lights. But you don't even know me. Like, of course he doesn't know you, that's the whole point. But I don't tell the other people who are saying I'm great, like you don't even know me. Yeah, you don't know the real me. You wouldn't like me. So that's the clip we're cutting out of this podcast. You don't you think I'm great? About me? Yeah, that's my favorite of my favorite of the social media guys like, well do you have that opinion? You don't know anything about me? Well, that's the point of the social media. The point is they don't know anything about you, and you post that and they react to it. Once you've become big enough that people that don't know you are looking at your stuff, that's the expectation that they don't know you be some misunderstandings. They're going to think one thing based on their prison less they see the world, and you're gonna be thinking another. But if they're an asshole, then let them be right, let them be. I want to talk about sheds good. We've gone too deep into their emotional it's got very philosophical. Yeah, switch gears, Uh, watch its because they're awesome. All right, thanks for joining us to the hunt. We'll you next time, next time. No, they're just man, I couldn't like. So I've heard you talk about on your podcast in the past by people fetishizing the antlers, right, and like, I'm about it. I love score, I love inches, I love impressive bowls, I love bucks with character, like, I'm all about that. And then no, it's not realistic for me to kill those kind of animals every time, and a lot of the time, like I love meat, I'm going after meat a lot of the time. So antlers kind of feels that niche for me, Like I love finding giant antlers. And also you know they have value, they're they're worth money. So I don't know, they're just a perfect storm for me. I can find as many as I want. You know, you shoot a deer and you're done hunting for the day. You pick up now, let you throw on your pack. You keep going. And then also you know, there's just never enough hunts in the year for me at least, you know, growing up that was the way it was I couldn't get enough of it, couldn't get enough days in the field. So well that he brought up another point, fetishizing event leerstand to talk about that really be rabbit hole. Hell um, well, yeah, I always wanted to watch chats and I never grew up in a place where shed hunting would have been I mean white tails, but yeah, we weren't big enough to even be soup spoons, so you wouldn't have done it. Um and ever, you know what, every time I could say, honestly, every time I run across the shed when I'm hunting, I'm like, yes, I got one. I don't know what to do with this. Yes, I'm gonna post. It's gonna be heavy. I'll probably drop in a couple of couple of months. That was me forever though I did the same thing. I'll probably I'd like, I want it, but I don't want that bad And I wonder how it switches. You make a lot of money on chips or is it just not necessarily And a lot of it was like, oh, I'm gonna cover my gas money. Yeah, and if I can do that, that's really pretty good. Then they just have a buyer in town and they Yeah, that's the Reasonally how it was, Um, they'd come through every a couple of times a year. I just buy up the good ones. Yeah. And then lately I started getting into the buying end a little bit more. And I have a partner that I work with and he works with the exporter. So they you buy or they buy yours. But I buy from people and then he buys from me. I basically just just upsell them, make a small cut to sell them to where they go to China. Yeah, they go on shipping containers and they go to China. So what are they doing China and ground them up and store them. Basically, I don't think they snored them. But yeah, it's aphrodisiac. Yeah, it's off the counter or the counter supplement supplement is is that more profitable than say the elk chandelier. Yeah, well right now it's the majority of the market. Dog thing is huge, that's true, super expensive. If you go go price out some dog chews on Amazon, insane is there? You have to know a lot about like high fence ranches that are just dropping sheds and collect them. Is that a big part of the market or is it Guys like yourself. It's not the majority by any means, but you know the buyers that's to go get them off a high fence ranch. It's the same thing. So they don't give a ship. No, that's the same. It's interesting to me they're not worth as much, like for the trophy quality of them. You know, a ranch bowl would be worth as much as a as a big public free range bowl. Yeah, keep it on public in there because keep it public. I mean, just keep the public to be private public sheds. I'm going to get a different bus or trespass or you're um, how much for like a giant bowl side? So those anything bigger than like probably three sixty is considered qualities, so you get a little bit better per pound out of them. You know to say no, but it just varies a lot, like on the if it's a known bowl that's or somebody maybe killed it the following year, it to be worth more. But you should be able to get a few hundred two thousand dollars out of a big side. Wow yeah, wow, ohly girl, Well all right, can I come with you? You want to go, let's get let's get into business. Everybody's all about it until you find out how hard it is. Yeah, well, I know there's like guys like Eric Chester who Yeah, I know, it's huge into it, and it seems to be trending that way. A lot of people are doing it. In fact, I saw a video that Jason Matsinger shared of when they opened up some piece of ground in Yeah that and these guys are just running and horseback and so I'm at, like, what's the most you'd make in a day if you spend all day doing it? Um, my best days probably you know, fift hundred bucks, So pretty damn good day it is. And if you could do it every day, you know, be money maker. Is it only fresh brown? So it's the weird way to say it. Is it only especially shed? They're called brown brown, that's the grade, So they're worth about fourteen to fifteen bucks a pound right now for brown um. There's a grade called hard white um, which is about ten to eleven bucks a pound right now. And then chalk, which is the older ones, which you're four to five bucks a pound for elk right now, and they're all still getting ground no matter what. Like pretty much where from the elements doesn't make more potents or less potent. Not not that I know. I don't know that much about it, but a lot of questions. Yeah, for sure, but you can. You can have a good day and make some money, but you have a lot of days you don't find any that's just like hunting, you know, the majority of the time you're not going to have that kind of a day. You got any tips for the novice shed hunter out there? Um, just get to know where the animals are in the winter. It's pretty basic, you know. We focus on feed sources and migration routes and just find out where the animals hang out in the winter, and that's where they drop them. If you're in a place where there's not a lot of competition, you know, it's better just to sit back, let them do their thing, let them drop, let them move out of there, and then go in and clean them up. Would you do you shed? You don't? Do you shed out just in the off season? And that's it. No, Like the more deep I get into it, more I find myself taking days off from hunting to go to go shut up, like when it's cool. I love that. So it's how many days a year you shut on? How many your will you shed? On this year. You think, oh, if I get a hunted in, it's pretty honesome. Ton of days. Yeah, um, yeah, I tried three or four days a week, but when the hunts roll around that will cut into it, so that number might not be quite that high. Maybe a bet you got is there a community of people like yourself that you tap into? Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of people. Actually social media has kind of been once brought that all together. Um in Utah, there's a ton of people to do it, and obviously other states too because they've putting shed seasons into effect and Colorado, Nevada. So yeah, it's growing in popularity all the time, which is good and bad sure, because it's definitely heighten the competition. That video I saw there was like like everybody had a TVs and trucks and there's one dude on foot running for his life and just running forest company the horizon. I enjoyd those things. Man, those openers they get crazy, Like people say they're fun, but that's shed opener then. Yeah, So that's basically they'll have like an elk refuge. You're a winning area that's shut down until a certain date that just to keep foot traffic off, Yeah, just to give the animals a chance to be on the winter range without getting chased around at stress. Yeah, which is debatable whether it matters or not. You feel like there's any bad size of shed hunting, like guys chasing bulls around trying to knock them over, and yeah, that's definitely the bad side. I think it's very highly exaggerated how often it happens. States I feel like use that as justification to close down shed hunting a lot, but I don't feel like it actually helps the problem, because people who are willing to break the lot of chase and animal, they'll break a lot disobey the shed season. So have you ever run in anybody that's got caught doing stuff like that or just something stressing out animals for the point of not really? And I as many days as I spend out on the hills, I just don't see it very much. You'll see people riding four wheels off road, that's pretty common, and um, it's not good. Um. But I think the problems that people say go along with shed hunting greatly over exaggerated. Are you public mostly? Are you? Yeah? Vast majority of what I public line and we have a little bit of private My grandpa's a little property that has a couple of antlers in it every now and then. But you find that that I do have a lot of questions about this, Well, maybe better start being start my own ship thing there you going dive in? Uh? Do you find that you know, ranch owners and private landowners are into the idea of letting folks on or they want to once they find out there's a profit that they want to have it for themselves or what. It depends. If they have interested in hunting, they usually will go pick up the antler um, especially if they know what it's worth. A lot of people are cool though they don't care, and you can get permission. Even people who wouldn't let people hunt there sometimes will let you pick up sheds there. So it's worth asking. It's worth knocking some doors and because you can definitely get on some better pieces. What's the What are the unwritten rules of shed hunting? Are there any like things you can't shouldn't do. Don't be a dummy, yeah, don't follow people, like if you see somebody in a spot or if you know, go somewhere else. Um, it's just kind of the same as they are with hunting. Just keep people their space. And yeah, obviously don't harass animals because if you run an elk into the ground and it dies, you're not gonna be any more sheds off of it. So yeah, I just don't be an idiot. That's good. Don't be an idiot. Ship crazy. There you go. What's you're done? Advice? Don't be don't be done, don't be an idiot. Yeah, well, good man, I appreciate the time. I have a lot. I have a lot more question about shed hunting than I thought I have, Yeah, because I've been experienced to it through the industry, but never um, I never thought too hard about it, to be quite honest, Yes, that happens. It's a thing man like when you get into it, it definitely becomes for me anyway. Obviously it came something I was super passionate about and started to eat into, even like real hunting. So well, if that's the case, we've already sucsessed how much we're into that. If that's the case, it must be. Yeah, it has an element of fun to it, I'm sure, the excitement. Yeah, I mean I can I love not that I would sell pounds of mushrooms, but like real mushroom hunting was huge for me when I was a kid. Yeah, it seems the same way, like you're looking for a certain type sure, look at certain type of item laying around the woods. Yeah, it's a good excuse to be out there hiking to and get into no country. And yeah it's an excellent tool for finding new places to hunt. Yeah. So well, is there any resources for the novice shed hunter to go out like, other than following your stuff and from you? Is there like message boards places people can go to really learn? Social media is really good for that. Um, I have people, you know, asking questions all the time just in the comment sections things like that. There's some websites out there that offer like mapping systems. Um, I don't know. On X is good. This is a good tool. Scout to Hunt's a good tool. There's a few out there that people can use to find areas where the animals would typically winner good starting points. But most of what you're gonna do is gonna put down a ton of miles and figure it out how many pounds of it? Antlers are probably tons of antlers you think are sold to China year A lot like, yeah, I'm trying to think, Like I just barely sold that's pretty sold twelve pounds um, which was a very like a pretty small amount. I bought some of it and I found some of it, and I gotta think, how much is probably in a Yeah, I mean if that's or maybe yeah, I betounds in a container and just yeah, just it's crazy. It's a lot of it coming out in the US is a major supplier of it. Yeah. New Zealand they do to a lot of velvet stuff. Yeah, I've been I've been dying to get to New Zealand actually, Like I've wanted to just contact one of these people to have like a hunting ranch or offer hunts and just go shed hunting. Yeah, I think it'd be fine. Should do. It's super easy. I'll lookay up with some guys I know down there. Yeah, i'd be good. I wonder if you ever think about doing content following those antlers as they go, Not that you have to fly to China and see who's grinding them up, but did you ever think about because it's interesting to me, The entire picture is interesting to me of going out and finding sheds, understanding the animal better, understanding the land better, finding the sheds, that's all kind of germane to what we do. But selling them to somebody in Asia. What are they doing with? What are they doing with? Yeah? What exactly are they doing? Like how does it think it's putting the shipping container and goes and then what happens? Yeah, be curious to know as well. I know they're ground and and obviously they go through a process, but I don't know where they end up. Yeah, maybe that's a shed crazy series. It could be I might find out some things I don't want to know about. Hey, you know, maybe maybe you'll find maybe they're like blood diamonds and there's horrible things going on over there over there. Maybe you'll be really cool. You'll meet some couple that got pregnant off you know, we have a family. Oh, God gets so many views and you need all our kids help. Yeah, maybe you'll find out some awesome things. Yeah, you never know. Tons of people over there that are just I don't know if they snorted or putting it pills. I'm well, I think that I don't know. That's kind of low on the totem pull of places. I'm gonna go explore yeah, I've got a lot of hunts to go on first. If I run out of hunts, then you preserve. I've been looking at a while. Panda hunt for a while, but you want a lot of keep money for him, keep looking panda? Why don't panda? Why don't they want to have sex? The pandas, I don't know. They're like the world's laziest. Yeah, we're talking about right. They won't do anything. Yeah, like I got in a panda cage in China. I saw a video of it, and the pan didn't even do anything like whenever like hug the guy. Why will a grizzly bear is a panta bear on our soup? Peopow? I don't know. This makes me sound stupid. I don't know. I know they're not like a true bear. Yeah, well then where they like? I got it right in anybody who uh, Obviously, if you're listening to this and you're in Asia, you have panda knowledge and also knowledge of the ground up shed antler market. Please rite in yeah for those very obscure yes sections. Yeah, because we get a few downloads and ajia every once in a while. Yeah, there you go. The chances are somebody listen to this and have antlers to antlers answers to all our antler questions. But yeah, panda bears are terrible animals. The worst bear, right, Grizzly bear would rip the ship out of a panda bear. It wouldn't even be close. Yeah, we're talking about that. It's like, yeah, that was go extinct. We're fine their perspective, We're fine. I could have sex with this other panda bear, but pretty tired today. Yeah, I've had a long day. I love it. They're like full vegetarian, like you can go catch them food like, na, I'm sitting against this tree, leaves fall down, I catch him, and if you put another panda barre on top of me, we might probably not we might do it, but dude, you're probably gonna have to give me a sleeping pill or grind up, grind up an antler and maybe that's what they do with them. Full circle panda viagra circle. Well that's a good place to end it. That's as good as anywhere, I guess handa viagra. Well, thanks for coming on. It's get shooting with the last couple of days. Get to know you and glad to have you in our world. Naked fun of everybody makes fun of me would be a privilege. We'll do Yeah, absolutely, all right, thanks fun that's it. That is all. Episode number nineteen is in the books. Thank you so much to my friend Ben coming on and hanging out creating what I would imagine the character of ship crazy. It's funny, dude. I laugh at that dude's Instagram once a day. He's great. Uh. If you want to hear anything else from us, here at the unt Collective checks out. We are at the Unincollective dot com. We've got articles, videos, and of course podcast there podcast from Steve Rinella, Remmy Warren, Ryan Callay and John Dudley, Shane Mahoney, all remarkus, Fred Eichler, we got a bunch of stuff there for you to listen to and hopefully enjoy. So keep it writing in Please please keep writing and keep emailing, keep sending me Instagram messages, keep keep talking to me about this conversation that is the Hunting Collective bringing new ideas to the table. I really do appreciate it. And we will see you for episode number twenty next Tuesday, hopefully a surprise guest talk about public lands. We'll see if it happens, stay tuned in a mist her and

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