00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, and welcome the episode number fifteen and The Hunting Collective. I've been O'Brien and today I'm joined by none other than Ryan Callahan, the first Light, Honey, and this is Ryan's second appearance in the podcast. Hopefully we'll have a whole bunch more times, but in this case we were in Sonora, Texas. You joined episode number fourteen's guests Casey Butler with myself on a hunt down there for access to her. And I'll tell you what. We had a ball and you heard it an episode fourteen. If you listen, this is just a continual of that conversation Ryan and myself. Ryan. If you haven't listened to his first episode on The Hunting Collective, you don't yet know that he is the definition of the salt of the earth. He is somebody who cares about the little things, somebody who um likes struggle, likes doing things himself. He doesn't like anything automated. And it's just a privilege to be around the gap. It's a privilege to pick up on the way he looks at life, the way he simplifies his existence, and the way that he betters everyone around him. And I appreciate Ryan for all those reasons, and I think this was a great conversation. We talked about our hunt, we talked about hunting with a longbow, We talked about our feelings around record book animals and what that means. And we did it all driving in a truck. Just like episode number two, episode number fifteen, we were driving in a truck heading back to Austin, Texas to drop him off. So would that being said, enjoy our driving all right, Brian Callahan, can you hear me pretty good? Yes? Ben On? Brian, do you think this is the first podcast ever recorded where a guy was driving down the road. You know, I would like to say that we're breaking new ground here, but I I know it is not because uh Dan Doty, former Meteor producer um actually recorded one. Or I should say this in reverse, Joe Rogan recorded Dan Doty on the road back from a Nevada mule here hunt. I do remember that now that you say that, I remember that they recorded that. That Damn Joe Rogan, I know he comes up. Somebody said they were doing a drinking game for every time I mentioned Ranella, Rebby Warren and Joe Rogan. So get the drinking fools. You got you gotta take like seven drinks already. We're only a couple of minutes into this one. Unfortunately it's Friday when we record this. If you play it on a Friday, just a good excuse whatever we want now, Wet. We started our last podcast talking about our surroundings, so it just so happens. That's so funny. Yeah, it just happens. We were in a truck then, and we're in a truck now, So go ahead and give me a brief description of your surroundings. Yeah, so the greater surroundings were actually we just we left a lovely meal in Fredericksburg, Texas, and uh, we're sitting in Ben O'Brien's truck and we're heading back to Austin for some early am flights. This is post access deer Hunt, but it is in the stoplights section of Fredericksburg. I am quite interested to see if we get the same treatment that we did at the Hunt Expo when we were sitting in a truck. Uh, if people look over and see and they wonder if we're on nine Overland Road Race or something. These headsets on for the pit crew for a NASCAR race something like that there, No, but hopefully nobody looks at it's dark out. If anybody's looking in, they probably have bad intentions. Plus we have the back of the truck is a giant nitty cooler, a tune or you tend to be exact full of would you say two pounds of access to your meat thereabouts? I would say it, yeah, every every bit of um. I was thinking, are yield is pretty high because we did lots of bone in cuts, but each deer has to be sixty pounds a yield, thought you would think, so yeah, yeah, with the bones in even more so. We had four deer, four deer, so we're we're heavy, heavy in the bows, meat, all types of gear. We're headed back. But that was I mean four deer. We're there what three days? Yes, three days Canyon Ranch, yeah, yeah, oddly and big days, big days. Yeah. Because you know, everybody who listened to the previous episode with our buddy Casey from Hushing knows all about the hunt. But we'll cover all that again here because we are just leaving the hunt that we're doing another podcast because why the hell not? And God, let's just give it up to Casey. What what a lamb. What I mean, it was just in the back seat. Yeah, he's back there and just doing gosh no what really? Yeah, I can see him glaring at me through the brake lights, piercing eyes, piercing eyes. Maybe we'll do a phone in where he can just come in and comment later on about what we're doing. Like we have a question, he can google it. He could be kind of like our a Google guy. Like you know, seems like all the famous podcasters have like a fella that's their googling those things they need to do. Uh, the long days are you know, it's summer. So even though like this is not you're not climbing mountains out here in the hill country of Texas. Was that technically hill country? Yeah, I will give it that. We're outside of Sonora, Texas. And you know it is flat ground, like very flat ground, and uh, you know it is very hot. Got a little muggie out there. Uh, there's lots of things that stick you. I am pulling lots of cactus out of myself as we speak. Uh, chiggers, ticks, Uh, very wildlife was absurd. Um, But yeah, you're not exerting yourself crazily as far as like climbing mountains, but the days are very very long. So uh, you know, sun doesn't set till eight, so you can shoot till eight thirty. Um, get picked up at like nine o'clock at night, eat some food, go to bed by eleven thirty, get up at four. Yeah, it's full long. There isn't a whole there isn't a whole lot of break. Yeah, and it's I mean the heat stays on. What were you saying. It feels like the blow dry on high heat during the day, but then in the evening it goes to medium high heat and it feels lovely. It feels lovely. But yeah, I mean it's that heat takes it out of hes. Anybody who's ever spent any time outside when a hundred degrees well knows that is it is not pleasant. And uh, it rained you, It rained you. I mean even today we hunted in the morning and then had you know, cut up meat in the afternoon, and even you know today at five o'clock was like, I'm feeling like I have some energy that I haven't had in the last couple of days because you're just fighting the heat all day. Yeah, standing in the walk in cooler. Cutting meat was uh nice respite. There was a respite. Um. Yeah, it's pretty funny. You know. I don't like to stand around with my mouth hanging open typically, ah, but for some reason, I'm like, well, you know, dogs been a lot of heat that way. So standing out there, here's the man who knows what he's doing the desert of Texas, trying to stock down access here occasion. Let me be like, open your mouth, do some heavy breathing. Maybe that'll horror temperature, that'll he vent. That's hey, man, you're an innovator. You're an innovator. There's gonna be a lot of hunters out there on the mountain this fall. Just mouth breathing. Yeah, because of Ryan Galllean. It's like, unzip your fly. You're a true influencer. If any what you can, like, you may die out here. Did you, um tell people about specifically the weapon that you chose for this and like, I know, folks who know you will know that you enjoy this this weapon, but specifically where you got it and why you choose it over others. So I got a new bow. I actually have a couple of new bows for the first time in like five years. Um, but I ran into a fellow, uh last name of broad Rick and Alberta, and we got to hunt together one morning and over the course of looking over the Alberta playing for mule here we're talking and this guy has a hand in making bows with Bushman bows in Florida, and he you know, I it's like, you know, if you don't want to spend money, you don't look through somebody else's binoculars, right, that's right, boy, I wanted and gets a little bit ooculars. But we were very much on the same page as far as like hunting style, what we held in high regard, what was most important, what we disdain um. And I was like, I gotta ask you about your bow like that. That is a beautiful bow and he kind of walked me through his and and I up thinking about it. And finally I emailed him and asked, hey, I want to ask you about making me a bow, and he never got back to me. And then I asked him again. He never got back to man, Ah, maybe it's just not for me. And then finally he's like, hey, give me a shout if you want me to want to talk about bows. And long story short, I got a long bow first first first long bow ever, and um, so yeah, I'm hunting with a long bow. I obviously you know I've shot long bows, recurve bows and even self bows and things like that. But in the scenario of access to you, I mean we were in a camp with seven or eight other rifle hunters and the three of us and then one other older bow hunter by the name is Steve. Steve was a badass. Yeah, Steve was buds with old Fred Bear. They were brows. Yep. Now that's just friend picture. Yeah, just you know how we as his new age generally, you know, social media people, we post things everybody that is over you know forty can remember the days where you'd show up at a trade show or show up at somebody's house and you'd have a flip like a photo album of all you're like printing out photos. And old Steve had photo album of all the stuff he killed. He said, yeah, it ain't bragging, boys, here's this moose I killed. Now, this ain't bragging. But here's these white tales I killed everywhere from a hundred forty. But you know what it's cool is he prefaced all of this before the album ever came out, and you could tell there was absolutely no bs in this man's voice. But he was like, I just I'm so excited to see you boys here. And he pointed a band because band killed the buck the first day with his bow, he said, And I was so proud of you when you came in with that buck the first night. And I mean that I you. I was so proud of you because you guys are the new generation of bow hunters. Yep. And he had been bow hunting for like forty years, and the Annals of bow Hunting is all the years. Yeah, that's all the years that there are and bow hunting. And so here's the guy, your new Fred Baird has been on his whole life. And uh, comes in there pretty unassumingly. He's not flashy about anything. Just he' said, for lack of a better term, sweet old man, that that was climbing up a tree to shoot an access there, which I believe he did. And uh, it's cool to hear somebody like that, because if you and I are lucky enough to be in Steve's position, you know, forty years from now and be able to tell people that story, Hey, I you know I knew Casey from Hushing is what we'll probably show him. Photo was Casey and I at the table, Like this is a real conversate. What do he says? This is a real conversation with Fred Barre. Let me tell you how it went. The very last So this guy had Steve has done. You know, if if you were somebody who was like, here's a couple of pinnacles, like ultimate goals as a bow hunter. Um, this guy has done him. And they're in this photo album that he keeps in the in the jockey box, the glove box of his truck. And the very last page of this book is this is a quote his Um, I think most prized picture. That's what he said, most prized picture. And it's him as a younger man speaking with Fred Barre at a table and he says, this is not just picture taken. We were friends and um, you know he had had a good, good story about Fred Bear. But it was it was really neat because there's like some gramatas with Steve. He's like this is he's you see it passed on? Yeah, and it was important to him and it was like he felt like we were this you know, he could probably see himself and us. I'm sure at some level when he was that you know, younger guy talking to Fred Barr, think he says, he's like, you guys remind me and me. It's like, you guys just want to do this with your bow, and it was it was neat. Yeah, what neat person. And one of the reasons you go and things like this, stumble on a guy like that. But is there I mean back to the long bow and why you do that? I mean, obviously we're all looking for a struggle, right, you know, you want to overcome, you want the some of us are just trying to find that struggle and whatever it is, Is there there's anything like in your mind that can actually too long bow? Is there some piece of you that wants to HARKing back to Steve or HARKing back to you know, Fred Bear or or is it just something you enjoy doing as a craft? Oh? I think it'd probably be the lion if I said there's not some all that, I mean really well got my wheels turning on jumping over to something other than a compound bow, which I certainly don't know the statistics, but I would say is by far and away the most popular archrey item out there. Um, it is just the fact that I was having a lot of difficulty and tuning bows and mentally knowing that my bow is in tune and knowing that I was making a mistake and not you know, thinking that the bow was out of tune or you know, or you know, I had the opposite experience. I haven't just a lemon of a bow and him and boy, I was damn near in tears a couple of times. Um that I wanted to go to something simple, eliminate as much as possible. And you know, I had a bad experience other than the tuning where you know, I wounded the only bull elk that I've ever wounded. And um, and the site on my bow that I had locked tighted in there, Um, I had actually come loose through. You know, I'm sure just hard to use. And um and yeah, I whacked this boat, this bowl. I saw it several days later. It was a non lethal hit. But still, you know, I'd try to do everything I can to eliminate that possibility at all. Kind of came to the conclusion that I'm not doing everything I can with all these moving parts that you gotta have some trust in so I want to have more of the onus on myself than anything. And that's really why I wanted to do it. And you know, I was really sick of, to the other part of your your question. I was really sick of kind of playing the game of like, well, you gotta have a new bow every year, and you gotta have the site and this rest and this, you know, the list goes on and on and on, and you know, and I was hearing lots of conversations of well, if you're a serious archery hunter, you're going to have a new bow every year, and I thought, bullshit. I know lots of guys that saying that, thank you, I get there a lot of hardships swishing bows every year. Yeah, so yeah, I mean that. I think that is a part of the equation. And and you know, I think ultimately the biggest part was is when I picked up that recurve and was super frustrated trying to figure out how to be a proficient shooter with the re curve, I was having an incredible amount of fun shooting with that bow, and so much more fun than I was having with compound. And you know, truthfully, I was like I am not going to get another bow. I'm gonna have this bow for the rest of my life and call it good. And uh yeah, And then now here we are, and I got two new bows, um, a new recurve and and this long bow. But you haven't gotten a new bow every year, have you? I have not. So at least you bucked that trend. I have bucked that trend. But this, uh yeah, I felt felt a little, uh, a little fruity. But I had to call this student. And when I got when the longbow finally showed up, I had to call this guy. And uh, it's like, I gotta tell you, there's just something about this thing, like I know, I know this bow and I are gonna do get things, Like there's just something about it, like I just I just love love the the way it shoots. And and I still have a lot of learning to do. I got thousands of arrows to shoot. But yeah, I'm I'm digging it. So what's uh what's your arrow broadhead set up? Because I was interested in that. How you set that up? Yeah? So and this started back in the compound days. But I shoot, you know, uh single bevil, So the blade is only angled and sharpened on one one side. UM, single blade broadhead, and um they're pretty darn stout. I shoot, I've been shooting strictling helix forever. Um and uh uh a friend of mine that I met through back country hunters and anglers, this guy Jared bab and check, he started a company called Bone Browed Heads, and he uh gave me a set of those broadheads a couple of years ago now. And you know, I just don't switch over to things for the sake of switching over to things, like especially when it comes to the regard I have for these animals, Like if I find something that that works, it is very very hard for me to switch. So UH got this new setup, and and every bow is different, and this long bow was a lot faster, so I had to shorten my arrows a bunch and and and it was on the verge of being on a different spine. And these bone browed heads are two hundred grains, whereas Ms. Strickland, he looks that I were shooting or a hundred and fifty grains, and the two grain heads, I think, uh to fit this set up a little bit better. So long story short, this is uh and these are cut on contact heads. But there that ads heads. It's like a chisel tip, is what some people call it. Um And you know, everybody says like the ideas for like punching through bone and is the main point of these types of broadheads. But if you break it down to nothing, they fly fantastic. They're super tough. And one of the things that I really love about them is, uh is you can sharpen them. And with recurve um you have a really good chance I actually find in your arrow. With long bowy you get a chance to find your arrow. So so you can sharpen those things up and reuse them. And and you know, I man, I think it's something like I'm getting a little more a verse two as I'm getting older. Is I just don't like the throwaway nature of so many things these days. And and you know, we talked a lot about knives on this trip, and uh, you know, I I had this, I still have this awesome knife that my dad gave me for this really well known knife maker at a Bonder, Montana Ruanna, and I've sharpened that thing up a good jillion times, many many times in my younger days. The absolute wrong way, uh, but you know, that's like a heirloom piece, and and I want to have more of that stuff around and and so yeah, I enjoy you know, I like being able to grab that broadhead. Uh, you know, give it a real inspection, make sure it's not bent in any way so it will still fly straight straight or sharpen, put that edge back on, shaping it up, buff it up and uh, and hopefully try to put it through another creator. Yeah, do you feel like, you know, we go into the camp like we did this this week, there's a lot of reactions between people that are hunting with different styles and different weapons and different age groups. Course, in this camp, everybody looks at you with a longbow, and I feel like most of them think that it's next to impossible for you to kill something, let alone kill a buck of any sort of size. In fact, our out outfitter was continually making comments like, well, we'll never kill a black buck, or I'll get you know, I'll buy your next your next hunt if you shoot like oh really, or you know, we'll see about this with let's see how you do you feel like? That's uh? I feel like if if I was in that position, I'd be like all right, man, That's one of the reasons that I do this is because there is people out there that can't conceive how hard it is to do this and this are are contented and happy cracking things with rifles and and and making those comments. I gather that's probably the same for you. Yeah, kind of. I mean to a degree, I absolutely love a challenge. I try to be objective though, also because you know, I get I'm single, dude, no kids. I get a lot of a lot of time to hunt, and I get a lot of time to practice and or as much time as I want to make for myself really, so Um. The other side is there are there's a lot of folks out there that I've met, and before I jumped in a big hang up, I had uh to going over to you know, the traditional archery, you know, recurve of longbow, cefo, whatever um side of things was. Man. I have guided folks, I've been around folks, have been on archery shoots with folks that, um, you don't have this way of thinking when they're shooting their traditional equipment that I do not agree with at all. If you're gonna go hunt a living creature with it, which is like, oh yeah, some days I got it, some days I don't. Yeh Um, It's like nope, well that's you. Then you can't hunt with that. That's real, that's real unlucky for that creature across. So uh, there there's a lot of bad examples out there, and then there's plenty of bad examples in in every sport. But um, or every pursuit or do you have a threshold when you're doing it? Like, hey, I'm ready now, well right, not quite ready? Is there a thresholder? Are you just oh yeah, absolutely absolutely so. Um. You know what I mean, I chose to bring this long bow with me. Um. I have not had I mean not even a fraction of arrows through this thing as I have with my recurve at home. Um. You know my recurve. Right situation, I'm proficient um out to uh you know about forty five yards um, with like clear line of sight, I I can you know, tap a target all day long, um with this. You know, by the end of our hunt, you know, stepping out at lunch and stuff, I was whacking the target well, um out there at about you know thirty five Um. But I was really really not not really willing to go beyond twenty yards, you know, and that's that's that's a serious setback. Hey, man is huge, So situational ethics weird. It's ugly, head like not ugly in this case. Yep. So yeah, absolutely you have to have limitations. But you know, I absolutely hope that everybody listening realizes that every single you are the most limiting factor, regardless of your weapon. Right, So if you got a thirty hot six and you can't hit the broad side of the bar, and you better not be cracking off shots any distance in that situation. So is that something I mean, obviously when I was a kid, that was instilled in me pretty early on. I mean, you're upbringing. Was that non negotiable pretty early on? Or was it? Yeah? It's kind of interesting. Uh you know the Bulko mate, I guess formal shooting training came through this outfitter named Larry Pendleton, Stevensville, Montana. And he was the hunting mentor of mine and um, ultimately the first outfitter that I worked for. And UM, I absolutely loved this man to death. And and he could shoot a long long way, and um I've shot long distances and and uh, but we shot. I was talking about this the other day, like I shot so much and all Larry did was reload and shoot. And man, we we would spend hours when we go out to Ease from Montsanah and set up set up camp. We were shooting all the time. Like like I said, we'd sit there and uh, he'd find a cow patty had dried up cow patty out there in the ferry and we'd have twenty two. He had these nylon sixty six. You were shooting the ship. We were shooting the ship literally ship, and he chucked that cow patty out there and we shoot it. And you know, the game was just keep that cow patty rolling until it disintegrated and then he'd find another one and do it again, you know, and and it was fun and games, but it was absolutely building skill. Yeah. So yeah, um that that was really the and honestly so much. Uh. I guess my ethical compass comes from comes from that dude and that education. Well, I mean, so we you know we have On the last podcast with Casey, we talked a lot about failure and like what it and success, but but moreover, like what failure does to you in hunting and what it means, and why it's a little more serious than failure and golf or failure and you know, a race of any kind, and why hunting failure means a lot more than and and really many other hobbies or sports or however you want to couch, whatever you're doing outside of your daily routine. And we talked. You told, uh, we have a story of success this week, pretty badass success, if you asked me, pretty unique. And then a story of failure that you told. I hope you're willing to tell about a different hunt in a different place. Can you weave those two stories together, just tell them back to back, or just kind of give us an idea of like what that success this week meant to you, and then you know, juxtaposed to that failure we talked about a little bit ago. Yeah, muh boy, I don't know how to succinctly do this, So I guess the worry about succinctly. We've got we'll be home. We'll be home my house in about forty minutes. So driving through these Texas towns, man, there's some stuff that I do not expect. You know. It's like it's kind of funny to me that uh, I gotta remind myself of Texas as a hell of a lot older in Montana, even though there's some oh yeah, there's some similarities here and there. Well we're driving through uh Johnson City, a lot of Lyndon B. Johnson activity here, and let's not forget Ladybird, Ladybird Street, Ladybird Street. Uh so it was this morning. This morning, Um, I jumped in with Ben and Casey and they, Um, I kind of started brushing a blind to ground blind very poorly last night. Um, and we kind of got out the door a little bit late this morning and then uh, you know, Ben and Caves, We're like, yeah, these deer they really want to get to this water hole and ground blind is brush blind is next the water hole. And we did trump around yesterday, but uh, you know, only water around type of deal. And I was foolish because we did trump around. This water helped pretty good, spooked a bunch of deer off of it invariably, And I was like, I don't know, I just I think these deer is a bunch of scent everywhere and they's just been pushed around, and uh bloy was I wrong? Uh go, the three of us going into this brush blind, uh personally built brush blind and um where we have two folding chairs for the three of us. And as you know, as pretty usual, the action starts happening before we're like really dialed. And man, it was was wild. Um. So they were a deer that came right into the water. Um. Ben, you were trying to fill your dough teg with your bow. Yeah, and we were about, you know, from the center of this water hole. We were probably about forty yards. Say yes, so when a close side thirty yards on the far side of fifty yards and that that was like right in the center when she just was as these things do, they don't hang around too long. They're not too interested in and having a long drink as it were. And so yeah, to picture it, I guess if let's just say, uh, we the chairs are facing two let's let's say the north. The water hole would be to the west, and the fence line runs east west, and uh, there's a road in between us and the fence and the fence is probably, oh, fifteen yards and the dead center of the roads twelve yards, and um, so it's pretty tight. And these deer coming from the opposite side of the fence and they are picking different spots in the fence to jump over and go to the water. Yeah, we just happened to be on the right side of what they need in between in between them and uh what they have to get at, which is water. And that seemed to be that about the only water source anywhere close. Yes, and it as a parent that there a ton of deer in the area and they wanted to get there. So, um, we're like right out of the gate, here's deer coming in from the opposite out of the fence. Um. Ben in case he had described like, well, yeah, they jump here, we want them to walk, uh to the west. When they go behind this tree, you can draw and then there's your shot. But sometimes what was happening is they go to the east when they jump the fence and and they you know, basically caught us by surprise. Well, of course that's what happens. And there's these two really nice bucks that it just yeah, as fate would haven't jumped the fence before the rest of the herd, and they are just right in her lap, and I have the longbow, and they're coming to the east side. Would which is my right side, and I'm trying to pivot over one butt cheek on the on the folding chair. Um, you know, aero knocked and all of a sudden his access to here as it was like five yards maybe, yeah, I mean he just turns the wrong These things turned the wrong way and then they're in your grill, I mean there, and you can't for all, you can't move. These are cagy critters and I'm you know, crouching tiger, hidden dumbassind a bush. And Casey is trying to film and you're trying to maneuver a giant long stick with the colorful feathers on it. Yes, and um, and you know I would be the absolute first to tell you that I just do not spend a lot of time in a tree standard and a ground blinder and a blind at all. And I was a little unsure of exactly how things were set to go. And there was a dope staring right into my soul from across the fence, and it's like, well, you know, it's it's a very classic scenario, right, It's like when do you draw? And when you draw, you know you're gonna alert this dough and but you gotta draw to shoot and as this is equations a running three your head that bucks right in your lap and and you know we blow that out. So like, well, boy, I feel feel inadequate. This is our last Yeah, feel inacquate is like where this is our last morning. We gotta we have to drive back as we're doing now, and the outfitter doesn't think you could do it. Everybody in camp is kind of like, hey, look at the weird guy with the stick boat. Yeah, and um, that's that's kind of feelings in the air. But also it's a new bow and you don't get the Texas to hunt access to your all that often, and there's not a whole lot of folks out there that do that, I don't believe. Well yeah, and and honestly that was certainly on my mind to more than anything else. It's kind of like, boy, am I an idiot for not just picking up a gun and shooting a deer? Because I have the opportunity, this awesome, awesome opportunity to you know, hunting shooting access dear, and instead I want to put you know, the way I want to do it above everything else and and try to get it with this long bow. So yeah, that's kind of like, boy, I and here's this deer at five yards and um, well you still have to make it work. The folks back and catch him, who are just poking you, like, hey, yeah, you're bringing some You're gonna bring that meat back? Yes, some steaks for me when you get back. So you got that pressure on you too. You want to you don't want to for your own personal challenge. Uh have left meat on the table exactly. Yeah, and yeah, so I got the first light office is like, hey, access to your real tasty better better bring uh because we're gonna eat it all. You're not gonna get any of it, right, Yeah, and uh and I love sharing meat and cook on and stuff, so that that part of that's part of part of it is fun also. But yeah, I wanted you know, and we talked about at the beginning of the hunt. It's like, man, I would above anything. The conversation was it wasn't how big of a deer do you want to shoot? It was man, I'd love to bring some brings Max gearback. So so yeah, and you know, here's this buck five yards, another bucket like seven yards, and still couldn't make it happen. And I'm just like, oh God, I might just being a jackass, So uh take a beat, we uh run around. Ben very correctly surmises that we just need to brush the blind in a lot more. So we haul in um and he sort of loose debris that we can dig up, and and we uh start stacking around and we make ourselves a much uh much better blind because they weren't. They weren't getting us with their most of the time, not getting us with their noses. Uh, they were hitting us with the eyes, and that's what And it was just when they're that close to your grill and they're staring to your eyes at five yards away, it's not a whole lot you can do other than duck behind something in front of you. So yeah, and um sudden we set up again. And keep in mind too, like there were some serious times, some in tense times, but the three of us are buddies, and we're probably whisper in a little bit louder than we should be, and and shooting the ship the whole time, and making funny scenarios about strange hybrid creatures. And yes we were. We had our we had basically created our own Texas ranch. Whereas we had our own exotic species hippo and a jackalope had sex and made a hippolope at some point, a tiny bouncing hippo with big ears the Hala hippo because we sell hunts for him. So uh, we're having fun. And and then you know, another group of deer start working in and again and it's certainly not the way I have seen it, but a buck leads jumps over the fence. This time it does go west. It goes behind that tree that Ben and Casey said would be the tree to draw behind draw buck steps out, has absolutely no clue and you know, am, it's still still walking. But um, you know one thing that I am quite certain of what, at least with my skills with the traditional equipment, is shooting at alert animals is not good. It's a slow arrow and this is only ten yards. May not have mattered at all, but um, you know, very confident in my shot, and take the shot, and uh, bizarre things things that I have never seen happen at that point. So thanks. I had never seen any of it. I had never seen mustachio man from Idaho with a longbow shoot anything, let alone an access buck. The deer I mean the deer pancakes on it on opposite side and proceeds to I mean it was stunned, like deader than wedge, just to quiver for a second and then started kicking its legs and and I mean in its tracks though, like you could see the tracks in the dirt. That thing tipped over in place. Uh. I sprinted out of the blind. Um. And we'll have to review the footage because supposedly there is some footage here and then are distinctly remember here Ben saying it's down and Casey goes wow. Um, I think was shocking there. And all I could think is, you know, I must have spined this thing because it's the way of the way it dropped. And I have I have seen some weird spinal shots where the critter does just this and then it hops up, never to be seen again. So I you know, sprinted over there. Uh, put another arrow in it, and we kind of proceeded to watch watch this buck expire. Um. And and there's some more detail we can go in there. But to the original question, you know, this is so there's a little bit of defeat and there's a little bit of uh, and and there is success in this story, Um, you know a story that I certainly have talked about before, but um, you know my experience in Alberta last year that the animal that I had encountered and stalked through crazy uh adverse conditions, things that uh exposed try and you probably shouldn't be able to stock a wise old mule deer in and Dan did everything went right for once and got in uh super super close and and proceeded to be extremely patient and wait and wait for that right shot and I missed and and uh this deer was you know, the caliber deer that uh no exaggeration, I will truly uh never I have never never be able to likely hunt again once in a lifetime opportunity. Yes, I mean just seeing this animal was something that you know, very very serious mule deer hunters will uh may never see. And you said even when you saw his deer, he's like oh it oh and didn't get it, didn't get a stock on him. I was likely to have seen that. Yeah, three days prayer, I had seen that deer and I was yeah, I was like, wow, I am an incredibly fortunate human being for having seen that deer, even though I will never see it again, and that I just saw it from you know, two miles away, and I was planning in my head out of stock it, and then some cattle came in and bumped it out, and I never saw it again. And then the last day there, you know, I caught a glimpse of him and relocated him, got in there and and it was an amazing, amazing experience. And um, you know for an really just an incredibly brief brief a couple of seconds, uh, soul crushing, but really like that disappeared very fast and and again just like fortunate to be that close and in the presence of that type of animal, and and you know, you gotta you gotta learn from that. And it was a series of little teeny tiny victories over the course of hours to get interrage on that deer, and a series of little teeny tiny victories to get into a shooting position from laying flat on your stomach for hours, and series of little teeny tiny victories to be patient enough to wait for the right shot. And then you know, the failure of missing. But um, yeah, it's it's it's just a good juxtaposition of you know, you're in Texas and you have a super jumpie deer that are always on point, especially near water holes. This one happens to just be so locked in on getting a drink that he doesn't even care that we're tenure arts away. And then you get an arrow and him not only did you get a good arrow in him, but he drops in his tracks for what seems to be no real good reason other than he got fumped pretty hard with a heavy arrow and he got probably hit through the shoulder on as far a side. Yeah, and that's what you know, it was very anxious. Start the the post mortem cropsy, start looking at where that whole wasn't and yeah it was you know, it was a higher lung shot. And I mean, the only thing I can figure is maybe that deer was trying to react to the arrow a little bit, even though I couldn't see it with my eye, and I and that arrow impacted hard, hard, hard, and you know, yeah, he was anchored, man, because that's what I was you when you got up, I was yelling, he's a he's down. He stayed down because I was looking at like when he was trying to get up kind of how much, because was he getting to his knees? Was was his back legs coming up off the ground. No, he was, he was. He was lifting his head and his haunches up and that's it. And he couldn't move, um, which which makes you think, well, he must be spine somehow, But he wasn't. Yeah. And the bruising on the opposite shoulder, it didn't go through the opposite shoulder. Um, the bruising on the option shoulder went all the way to the you know, to the outside of that shoulder. Um. So yeah, that arrow whacked him hard. Yeah. Well, I just think to me, you have this success you have in a pretty unique situation on a unique animal, and then you have this failure in a pretty situation on a unique animal. And um, what I'm hearing a little bit correct me off our own, But it's like these experiences are, um, the winds and those that the two things, the two results are just the two results. Uh. Because you know, we certainly did jump up down scream about the axis, dear, And I'm sure you didn't want to quit bow hunting. Maybe you might have a brief moment or twenty um after you weren't you know, you weren't in any way suicidal, after you you missed one. So it's like these results are important, but it's not all about that. No, it's not. I mean, you know, I mean I'm not fooling myself. I'm hunting the way I I choose to hunt, not the way I have to hunt to provide meat for myself, um, or provide meat at all, you know. Um, And if it were, you know, I'm just about the end result, I'd be going about things in a hell of a lot of different manner. This is, you know, this kind of a selfish pursuit. And I you don't believe we've talked about this before, but it is about you know, honing your game, honing your craft, and and um, you know, there there's one pet peeve of mine out there, and it's like this whole struggle stick thing like I just if this were not a proficient killing tool, I wouldn't use it because that, yeah, because it just wouldn't be fairly animal. Yeah, And it comes off as vanity. Um, it can't come off it's man. It doesn't always, but sometimes, um, it seems like some folks are shooting a long bow for for their own vanity to say, look at me, look how hard this is? Um, because it does magnify your success when you shoot something with a long bow, because it is so hard to do and it is it is a path not a lot of folks choose, and it takes a lot of hard work and training to do it. So I think that's you know, step forward to compound bow versus rifle or muzzle order fire, modern fire, and so you can make a lot of those comparisons if you want. But and you know, uh, Kenton Crew said it best. You said, you know the best thing about hunting with traditional equipment is you get a hunt a lot more, right, him. You're not putting that meat in the freezer every time you go out, so uh, And there's absolute truth in that to me, Like, you know, the hunting stops when you let that arrow go and it connects, or the bullet fly and it connects. Um, And man, I love the hunting aspect and I love the fact that I will never be as good as I feel I should be. Yeah, And I mean I think also that ends all things. This is something we were talking about earlier than I was intrigued just to talk more about, which was that deer in Alberta was not only once in a lifetime, dear, But you know it might have made its way into certain books, yes, um, and those books being in those books would have given you personally, especially because the way that you took that deer quite the leap in hunting circles, you know, like an esteem or like status because what you did was pretty damn awesome. And um yeah, and and I and you know, I confided to you guys, I I you know, that definitely flashed through my mind then. And but what also flashed through my mind is, you know, this was a big enough animal to where you know, I would have taken a lot of pictures of it, and I'm sure my buddies would have taken a lot of pictures of it, and and we would have talked about it, like crazy, thousands of times more than the mess that we're talking about, the mistake that we're talking about. Um, And there there would have been, um, there would have been you know a lot of talk about like, oh my gosh, look at this is so awesome, such an amazing feat and the reality is is kind of undeservedly so right. Yeah, Yeah, that's that's the big point for me, is like that animal is is I mean you're not lucky to come across it. I mean, it's just every time you step up and pick the buyers up your performing. You know, an activity that has a little bit of luck involved, like right place, right time, right but you put yourself in that place and you spent the time out there to fund to be there when that deal was But yeah, there's a little luck involved. And we were talking about if somebody goes out tomorrow and shoots a world record elk, does that all of a sudden make them the best elk hunter, the world's best, world's best elk hunter. And I think that the answer is flatly no. And I'm sure in in the past in the hunting industry, it seemed like that might have been true, maybe that we kind of let ourselves get fulled by instant success or even even to some level consistent success, to the point where we were using that as like this community standing, oh man, you kill a lot of elk, Well you must be the best elk hunter without looking at the conditions in what you're doing it, yes, and the dedication you have for the for the craft of whatever whatever you're choosing to do. Uh. I think that's a great conversation to look at you know, based on that scenario that you were in, you know, were you are you suddenly the best bow hunter ever if you took h a difficult endeavor, made it more difficult, and then killed you know, one of the biggest deer ever to walk on four legs. That was a blacktail and a white tail got together. I mean, yeah, man, that's that's an achievement to be to be lauded. But that's not a it's not a marker of greatness. It's just a marker of greatness in that one situation if it if it would have happened. Ye had to put put this in in context, is to successfully kill that faking horn, you have to do all of the same right things that you do to successfully kill that two deer. Yeah. Now, that faking horn may on occasion put itself in spots a little bit easier to sneak up on it maybe, Uh, but it still doesn't want to die. That's right, that's right. Well, and he and we were saying to that, you know, say, this is a two mule deer. Two mule deer is not seven years younger. No, um, you're talking like these this these you know, relatively small variances and its genetics and it's diet and its stress levels and just big, wide open public lands. You're talking about an animal that won a genetic lottery, maybe got a little bit better feed, had a little bit less stress in its life that year. Yeah, it wasn't. I mean, is it does that? Does that? Does the thirty extra inches handler make it's smarter than the one that is? Now? It doesn't. Um, we just cove it and value, in my opinion, you know, fetishize or overly value these things to to extent that clouds are judgment on, Like what what makes us good at this thing? You know, what makes us good at hunting? Why? Why are we good at it? And what the hell does it matter if we are? Like if you're proficient and you love what you do and you care like you do, but being proficient, no matter what you choose to do, what the hell does it matter? Yeah? Man, because what matters to me is you take that you take the right shot, which is when you let that arrow go or squeeze that trigger, you know something is gonna die. Now, it doesn't always happen that way, and it sure is. Heck, hasn't happened all that way for me all the time. But you know you're not let I don't let that thing go and be like, boy, I hope this works. Yeah, I mean, and so you deserve that. You deserve all the credit in the world for that, as do every other as every other hunter does who works hard at what they do and and cares about it even and then of your weekend warrior, if you go out to the range and make sure your rifles on, you understand where you're going, what you're doing, you deserve what you get. You deserve the you know, the output from the input. Like, that's what you deserve. And uh, what we were talking about a uh you can tell me the gentleman's name. But the guy killed the world record Alca Montane on public lands. This is a guy who was a legit hunter. Yeah, Steve Felix, Steve Felix and and Steve Felix kills his world record l public land. And you've had conversations with him where you can just kind of tell he's he's legit, he does the right way. Yeah, yeah, and I'm always super it's very revitalizing to have conversations with with guys. There's you know, there's so much humors involved and with a lot of folks and well I got the world record, I got the state record, or you know, I got two fuel here, two white Taylor three inch bowl or five hundred inch bowl or whatever. So um, but yeah, this guy, um has the world record ar Trio public Land and he hunts, has put off and he hasn't been a dedicated I'm gonna kill the biggest thing all the time. That's what I do guy until recently, and um, it's it's just neat. He's like, yeah, what you know, Montana, you pass a bowl up, you may never get another shot. And growing up in Montana, I'll tell you that's the truth. And and he's like, but you know, getting towards sixty and I'm got a lot more time to hunt these days, and I thought, well, I should probably probably try to try to get something big. Got a lot of small bulls. So um, it was yeah, it was great, just great. That's a great example. And that's a guy who should be celebrated for what he did that day and then and for who he is in his dedication to hunting and how much he loves it, right, I mean, he doesn't need. Boy, he already has a trophy he doesn't need. He doesn't need one, doesn't need another one. Yeah, and you know he, uh, My big question to him when we spoke this year, said, well, Steve Man, what how was it driving into your spot? Did you see any other folks? He said, not a not a single person. And and he hunted his butt off and he found another nice bowl and and you know, he's one. He's a guy. He's like, man, see it's it's just a great spot. And he did and he didn't get the ball. Never never let a narrow fly. So well, you were saying that a lot of people his, you know, either friends of his or people that kind of knew the history of guy's killing world records, were like, Hey, you gotta cash in on this, baby. You gotta get somebody to pay you for this. You gotta get sponsors, you gotta go on tour, you gotta you know, you start wearing new Yeah, get new carpet. You know a lot of stuff you gotta do and um and you know, hey, getting new carpet. Yeah, you gotta get you gotta get you just the Seinfeld where he's like, I can't have him manage Dwin have to get a new carpet and have to start wearing different clothes. Uh, But when you're a world record out guy, things are supposed to be different, right, but for the for the wrong reasons. They're supposed to be different because now you're this exalted like hunter. But like, let's say, let's celebrate the animal for what it is, because the animal is special. Let's celebrate the hunter for who he is and what he did that day. That's about as far as it goes. And then does he deserve to be on the cover field stream? Sure, not saying it was, but does he deserve that kind of coverage? Yeah? Because I love great stories and so does everybody else. Does he deserve to get a bunch of sponsors and and be richer along as all streams? I guess that's for the market to declare. But but I you know, I would question question the motivations there. Yes, yes, um, but yeah, I mean it's just it's nice to see those guys that still have that passion for hunting. And then just like our buddy Steve coming out of the access to your camp. You know that guy, I don't know if I could have been around him when he was younger. He's so fired up to hunt right now. And for him to say I'm proud of you guys, was like the weirdest, most awesome thing that you could hear from a guy like that. You know, I'm proudly like this guy feels a connection because I'm carrying a boat. I could be some asshole, I do. I could have, you know, shot that deer in the guts and then picked up right And he doesn't know, but but he just feels like he sees a little bit of himself and us, which was which was fantastic. It's amazing. Yeah. And I have been in camps where the first hunter to come in with the bowl nobody talked to. Yeah, first day, first morning, first day, first Bowl, nobody talked to because all of a sudden, it was a reflection on them. Why did they not get whatever? And this guy marsh right up to you, and I was so proud of you. I gotta tell you boys something. I was so proud of you when you came in with that deer. I mean, my job dropped it that. I mean, that's what an adult is right there. And he was there, I believe, by himself. Where was he from I can't remember where he's from, Illinois, Illinois. Came always from Illinois by himself because he loves the bow hunt and he had a crossbow. And he was a little uh self conscious about his crossbow because you don't want to you know, he's a poping young guy, didn't want to get judged. But I was saying, and then just like a sweet started like, hey, you know, I'm getting older in my arm, hard to pull that bow back, but I I just take a crossbury once a while, you know. I was like, dude, that's okay, man, you're passion about hown't you do it for forty years. You've you've earned the right to choose the way you want to do it. Your your shoulders should behold Yeah, your shoulders should be falling off, but it shouldn't be able to lift a fork, let alone lift across bow. Yeah. Yeah, And that I mean it's guys like that. You meet guys like that, and it's like, hey, if I could be if I could have Steve's attitude in forty years, if I could have Steve's accomplishments and and just Steve's general disposition, I think I'd be a winner. So absolutely appreciate you, Steve, you're the man. Taren. Right, we're pulling up to my house. Now see those deer right there, they live in my yard, the Brand Deer Preserve. Oh my gosh, like on they sleep right in the yard. This is my yard. But that's that's my yard and they just chill out. They have fallns all back in these these uh this tall grass because obviously like that protection. So I've probably seen I don't know any falls. Lots of fauns though, get born right there here in Texas hill Country. Gateway to the hill Country. Dripping Springs, Texas, everybody. And I want to close this podcast by telling the story. And Rag all it is pregnant, she's wear she's going right. She will get right back there and have that one. Um. And I closed this podcast by telling the story. Almost forgot about it, and then I said dripping springs, and I remembered what was going down. So here's my front yard, and I'll show you the deer that are just eating my grass. Shas. There's there's a whole family unit landing ends friend yard. Yeah, we'll just keep driving around so's to not just sturb my family. So here's a story. This is great. Everybody. You're gonna love it. I love it. I'm looking. I have to interapt just briefly. You have a john do your writing lawn more? And I just is that is that too cliche? It's not. I don't know if it's cliche, but I just for some reason, I can perfectly picture you'd writing around and do you you don't have a lawn to mow there at the d I y condo. Nope. Oh man, when you have a kid and you mowing the lawn, it's like meditation, very loud, noisy, hottest ship meditation. Ah, that's what it's like. I'm sorry, get back to your story, please, it's very important stories. I don't have talked to somebody out there in the world probably listening right now. I know he's listening. He told me he does. So. UM. You know, I play in this hunt and I probably myself of my logistical abilities. It's one of the things, one of my few other than talking, one of my few, uh marginal talents and uh Mr Callahan. I was like, hey, man, come on down to Texas and after you have some convincing massaging. He was like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it, and I said, come on down on the Mate Memorial Day. He said real really yeah, okay, bought his ticket. Well. In the meantime, I talked to the outfitter and turned out May twenty ninth was a better day to go. And then I've just neglected to tell Mr Callahan, and then I neglected to remember that he was coming in. So I was out in my backyard shoot my bow, getting ready. I've just written around on my John Deere and I get a text from Ryan I'm at the airport. And my first reaction was like, oh, tomorrow, you're at the airport right, not at the airport today. But no, no, he was there at the airport and I was in my and my dad clothes doing yard works, shoot my bow. So I jumped in my truck and I sped down the current the road, little ship. So I jumped in my truck and I sped down the road that we're currently on. Uh. Because I didn't want Ryan to have to wait too long with the hipsters in the Austin airport, afraid he was gonna get cost there would never know what they're those hipsters are gonna do. You don't know there, unpredictable and then so I'm speeding down this road and I'm talking on the phone, trying to get the day organized, and uh, what do I see the cop pulling me over? This cop pulls me over, comes to the door the car says, sir, you were going xmile an hour over the speed limit. It takes my license. I'll bear and Briant, oh cool, we've met before. I was like, oh yeah, all right. I assume like that means like we're cool, man, like we're feeling you did something wrong. But I'll let it go. And this stern warning and warning, and this officer gets back to his car and he comes back and he says, I'm gonna give off issue a citation. But I gotta tell you, I I don't know if this does really a whole lot for you right now. But I love the podcast. He's like, are you going to what are you doing to get at the I told him I was going to the airport. I was I'm going to get Ryan Kelly. He's all, that's awesome. You guys are gonna podcast. Oh yeah, of course we are. I'll make sure to give you a shout outs. So Officer Smallwood from Dripping Springs, Texas appreciate your service. Man, I really do not not saying that. Say absolutely, I'm sorry about that speeding held. I'll keep it down because there's a lot of a lot more important to do than speed. Yeah, that's just one failure that's gonna lead to a lot of a lot of a lot of victories down the road. Officer for small Wood. Did you tying it together, Ryan Calla putting the bow on the podcast? Well, thanks for coming for the second one. We've been in the truck for the entire entirety of our two conversations, so you're a huge part of the hunting collective and I really appreciate you being willing to do that. Oh man, thank you so much. And yeah, always always fun to you know, cheat the fat with you. Well, I'm happy to do it by everybody. That's it. That's all. Episode number fifteen is in the books. Thank you Mr Gallean for joining me one more time on a hunting collective. I'd have him back every episode if I could. I hope you enjoyed this conversation on our drive back to Austin, Texas from Sonora across the hill country. I really like this one. For a bunch of reasons, but you just got to sit and cruise and listen to Ryan talk about what he liked to do. Um and his humble nature probably won't let him brag too much about his skills, but I can tell you on this hunt, he delivered and impressed me enough to want to pick up a longbow myself, so I may just do that, you know, in the future hunts. So thanks to Ryan one more time, and thanks to everybody for listening to episode number fifteen. We'll be back next week with the episode number sixteen with Adam Jankie. So Adam from the journal Amountain Hunting up next week. Good discussion on media and all of this entailed there, so check us out on the Hunting Collective dot com, articles, videos, podcasts, all kinds of stuff there for you to take in. Check me out on Instagram at Benny obi one. Keep following along. Big updates to come, big changes hopefully for the podcast, for the positive and hopefully we'll grow well grow with you and know those of you have listened. I can't say enough about it how much the support means to me and my family, my wife Hannah, my son James, everyone that has given us positive, positive encouragement. It means a lot because of our family,

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