00:00:12 Speaker 1: I guess I grew up. Hey, everybody, welcome to episode one nine of a Hunting Collective. I've been and Brian. I'm joined by Phil, the engineer. Phil. Then, how's it going, buddy, It's going all right. Well, I'm excited today. Today is a good podcast. We've got some of my favorite people on, UM, some of the most inspiring people that I know on You know, we are very well Phil and are very well aware of the unrest going on in the world, and we'll hope to address some of those things today. But one of the big updates we gotta give is Phil and I are allowed to be in the same room once again. Yes, I think, uh, I don't think they want us to be in the same room. Yeah, but we Phil had to be fight. We didn't give them a choice. Phil had to fight to get in the same room. And that's how much he missed me. Yeah, something like that. Um. I'm back in the office for much full time, and but Phil is being kept away. That's that's true. We'll have to talk to HR about that. But I fully support you coming back to work, Buddy. Thank you. Are you like most people in our company, I think most companies and most people have kids the age of our kids. I really want to come back to work, really are valuing that office time, feeling that there, Phil Man, Like a month ago, I just noticed my my patients meter. It's it's been dropping. And then I had to take a step back and like, am I a bad person? Am I a bad father? No? No, you're not. Maybe like we'll have to bring in mango to just see. But I feel I feel like that's only natural. It's only natural. Feel guilty about those feelings as well. So it's just everybody's going through them, especially those that have been home with their kids and then are not used to that. Um. But we're back in the studio, will do better than last week. I felt like we're just a little bit uncomfortable being around each other. Phil. Last week we didn't know what to do. Yeah, we forgot how to interact. Yeah, physically, I don't know look a person the eye. I don't know what that even feels like anymore. Um, but you look great. You look great. You've been working out during quarantine, you know. I did that thing that I do every single year. Or the weather starts to turn and I'm and I'm like, I'm gonna start running, and then I run exactly three times and then I stopped. Oh well, that's a good tradition, a wonderful tradition. I've started recently. I will admit this. I'm gonna get shipped for it, I know. But I started yoga. I I that's something I'm I'm interested into. Yeah, dude, it's great. I feel so stretched out like gumb be walking around this son of a bit. It does sound. Oh it's great, dude. It's just the hips, like my hips. I don't know what was wrong with them before, but now they're fixed. It feels great. Man. Um, So everybody out there feel free to make fun of me at th HD, at the mediator dot com or at Benny Oh b three oh one about my beginning yoga. I'm just doing it at home and my kid does it with him, so it's super cute. I promised. He's doing the moves. I'm doing the moves. He's laughing. I'm laughing. It's great. You'll trust me, um. I just feel the skepticism coming from the audience right now. But we got a couple of emails to get to. Then we're gonna give my good friend and everyone's good friend Charles Rodney a call and talked to him about the goings on, his perspective on um are, the current situation and his life story, because his life story is about as interesting and as anything that I've heard those of you that have listened this podcast. No Charles the rabbit Van Rodney as a rabbit hunter. There's so much more to know about him. So we're gonna talk to him about that here in a minute, and then we're gonna get to Matt Best, one of the co founders of Black Rifle Coffee, former United States Army ranger, and then his good buddy and my good buddy former guests the show, Omar Crispy a Vila, who was a sergeant and is also a recipient of the Purple Heart in the Combat Infantry Badge, among other things. That conversation particularly, uh, it was interesting to me because I didn't do very well phil with Matt and Omar. Yeah, I felt I haven't listened back to it. I haven't had time, but I felt like these two individuals were so incredibly positive amidst you know what is some terrible things happening in our in our nation. I thought the questions I was asking them, I felt like had a bit of a negative connotation. We we're looking to get into these sticky situations. And both of them, to a t were eloquent, honest, and positive about everything that I asked them, and they kept they kept just returning to, hey, look, they are some of the things, some of the more negative things that are spun up right now just aren't a reality for me. And I thought that was pretty inspirational. So hopefully you got to stick around for Matt and for omar Um, and I will just just issue a brief apology to them for sucking it interviewing during this so you can listen to listen to the interview knowing that I feel I didn't do a great job and I felt they knocked it out of the park. So so enjoy that. But before we get to that, we guess some emails. Fill you ready for some emails. We got I think two fun ones and one not fun one, Like the third one is so not fun that I'm nervous to even approach it. But hey, that's what makes th h C t h C. So the first one, have you heard about how they're gonna do Elmer Fudd without a gun. Phil, Uh No, what's he gonna have? Uh, well, he's gonna have a scythe. You know what that is? I was trying to make sure I do. Yes, Is that because I've used one on the back forty you can see it in the film. Yeah. Yeah, I mean they're originally created to help, you know, clear clear greenery and clear fields. But you know, if you want to if you don't know what it is, still picture when you picture the Grim Reaper. That is the quote unquote I almost a little weapon, but it wasn't created as a weapon. It's a tool, but it's like a it's a lot large staff with a long curved blade at the end. Yes, it doesn't really matter what he's using the fact that he's not using his his his traditional gun is what matters. So Joe Celentano, I got that, right, Celentano. That feels good, he says, I'm guessing a hundred other people will have already have sent this. That's true, Joe, that everybody sent this to me. But it's crazy to think that Scythe will be taking the place of Elmer Fudd's gun in the name of stopping gun violence. Obviously, Elmer Fudd has always been and made a huge exaggeration to the misconceptions about hunting, but now using an instrument that he'sn't even for hunting would seem to make the act less humane. Regardless, I'll still probably watch it with my two year old and enjoy it. As I said the child, he said, thanks for tackling the uncomfortable topics, No problem, I love it. Man. Listen. I'm not real sure. Um, I want to read up on this. I'm not real sure what to say about this, but it is um. I just got done recording next week's podcast. That is uh, we're talking about the culture war a little bit. We talked about this with Matt and Omar a little bit as well. But I think this is just just another symptom of of a lot of people are fighting to remove certain things from our culture and this is a silly one and what we like to I'm will support mostly because I think the image of Elmer Fudd just wrecking shop with a scythe sounds hardcore as hell, and I'm game. I'll just read from Fox News here about that just triggered a few people. Elmer Fudd has made a big change for the newest series of Looney Tunes Cartoons and the latest update of the series called Looney Tunes Cartoons Wow and streaming on HBO Max. The iconic character will no longer use a gun. According to the people behind the show. Here's my favorite quote of all time. We're not doing guns, second producer Peter brown Guard told New York Times, but we can do cartoony violence, T M T T N T. The ACME stuff. All that was kind of grandfathered in slow class. Well, listen, honestly, I think he don't interrupt me, Phil, Hollywood, you full of just idiots. Go ahead, Phil, you're gonna support this fell I think hunters should be happy with this change, because, like, like the email said, Elmur has been portrayed as like a dope the entire lifespan of the character run around with his gun, like, you know, just shooting willy nilly, using it incorrectly, and he's you know if if and he's made hunters look stupid for decades now, he's he's not even really a hunter anymore. There's there's he's wearing the exact same clothes, right, the exactly stereotypical set up. They just like swapped it out. Uh, it seems more immediately dangerous that he would be and then just gruesome that he would be chasing around. Like I said, it sounds that sounds great. Hollywood, Hollywood, You're full of just nonsense, just nonsense, And I really it keeps this show entertaining. So keep it up. Um. And as we you know, as we as we feel we're gonna look at the culture wars on this show, and as we do that, uh, it's it's important to keep in mind that much of the culture wars in America is dumb and and really just idiotic, and this is this is one of them that people are trying to change people's minds in the dumbest way possible. And I will if I watch this, I will watch it while eating an impossible burger and marveling at how it bleeds. Picking me up, I'm not I'm not picking for this event. You're okay, you're not going over, You're not coming over this event and all all right, well we're moving on. Um, I hope as as a as a pro shotgun to Rabbit as it's it's nice that Will asked Charles when he comes on what he thinks about this. But as a pro shotgun used for killing rabbits. Guy, It'll be interesting to see where this goes. But thanks Joe for writing in and and thanks to the other three people that wrote in to let me know that this was going on. The next email comes from Cory. What what's wrong with these people's names? Did anybody listen to podcast? Who's name is? Jones? S? C H E I p h E. Shipey shpe shape we'll go with We'll go with already shype Uh, he says high been. I was on a what is that? I was on a bike packing trip and I don't know what that is. You know what that is? Bike packing? Were you packing the bike around? Well? I think it's like backpacking, but with a bike. So you probably right out into the mountains and then you sleep and then you write out some more. Sounds good, whatever you guys. It sounds fun. Yeah, it sounds great. I was on a bike packing trip this weekend in um North Carolina a couple of national forests. We festooned our bicycles with camping and fly fishing gear and headed out for a short overnighter. It was great fun. We explored new country and the weather was beautiful. On the way to our meeting spot for the trip. I listened to th HC number Miles Nulte, and I believe it was Miles who suggested River Rocks for natural teep. Now, if you don't know, this is in the context of you know, really what has defined the meat eat or brand and Phil's first crap in the woods? Are you still feeling the shine off that story? Yeah, I've got something to add after these emails regarding that, But continue you haven't. Oh, oh, that's it's a lot of suspense. Also, I gotta tell the time I craped my pants, but we'll just do that next. Hold on, I feel like I'm setting us up for something big. It's not a friend of the show. Former guest Eric Hall sent me a book called how to Ship in the Woods, So big shout out to Eric Hall. Thank you, thank you, thanks thanks buddy. Here. We still want to have you over for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I love you. But we're getting back to Corey here. Corey says, uh, he wants to give us a suggestion. He said, I tried this today and have I have got to say. While it may work if you were on the East Coast and particularly the Appalachian mountains. I must urge you to toss the rocks aside and find some rhododendron. Didn't didn't see that coming. Find some rhododendron. Particularly. This is a rhododendron maximum, not to be confused with a near look alike, but much smaller leafed mountain laurel that is ubiquitous in these forests. I've highlighted rhodos as he calls them, top three qualities for wiping your ass. One large surface area and suitable shape. Two waxy coating and thick leaves for durability and minimal pass through. So far minimal pass I'm gonna sing in my backyard. Three high leaf density means a ready reload and be thick cover to protect the the eyes and snouts of passers. By Q Phil in the Curious dough Uh, please pass this along. Thanks for the fantastic show now, but it's good that you know this, this interaction where the listeners are helping you along, and hopefully when you finally get this hunt, we'll have the same interaction and you'll tell everyone all the problems you're having and how I'm not helping you at all, and how I'm an awful hunter and then the listeners will fill the gaps in that. So what I'm hoping for you look forward to that? Yeah sure, in case the listeners haven't noticed yet. Whenever I say yeah sure means uh, I'm just trying to move along, you're not gonna want to. This is the third email, and it's the one that's not fun. You just made a mistake. Rhododendrons was way better than what we're about to talk about. Um So our our buddy alias to heighten one of my favorite emailers emails all the time. He's and he always he always almost makes another show every time he emails in, and so good on you for knowing what gets me gets me up in the morning. He says, Hey, Ben, still still a big fan of your podcast, As if other people have dropped off somehow. No, I think just you know, bringing up the whole just not talking Whenever you don't talk about something that's not hunting, especially with what's happening in the world right now, people are just like, hey man, I'm still a fan, even though I'm sure a lot of people aren't anymore. Well, hang onto your to hang on your hats. Here we go. I've definitely noticed that you and many other media your crew members seem to identify as relatively right leaning. I'm probably considered fairly left for Canadian, which makes me far left in the US. I guess what I find really interesting is how liberal, how liberal most of you guys seem when it comes to science and wildlife management and even a lot of social issues. You'll do a very good job of mostly keeping your politics act site, but how do you square the two sides? Internally? This is probably more of a drinks conversation, but you're a busy man, and I lived seven hundred miles away, so I give it a shot via email. Um, Philip, are you do you feel uncomfortable talking about politics? Not as much as I used to, Yeah, because I honestly I used to feel like there's a lot at stake, but now I just I feel like I don't really care. And also I think it's good to talk about Yeah. My grandfather blessed his hard man. He was a traditional fella. Used to say, sex, politics, and religion, don't talk about that at the dinner table. He did. I think that created me like the opposite. That's stuff that I think is interesting and if the if the conversation isn't uncomfortable, and it isn't getting it getting to some core issue that we're all trying to manage, it doesn't seem interesting to me. So in this case politics, I think most people that have hunting podcasts or or in general, I know Rainy Newburg talks about a lot a lot about politics on his show, but most most folks tend to stick to the hunting right. I know you're an avid listener of all hunting podcasts outside of the Mediator Network. Yeah, I've got a I've got a spreadsheet comparing every hunting podcast. Yeah, exactly. It's it's it's generally in my unless you work for an NGO or someplace like the n Array or or a spot like that, you're generally not diving into politics as much as other things are. Same with sports, just like you're there to play sports, politics seep in and become kind of an uncomfortable thing. So I would just say my view on this is, if you're gonna listen to me talk about every every anthropology and Paley anthropology and race and all this other stuff, like nothing should be off the table, and intentionally nothing is off the table in terms of what we talk about. So let me just quickly feel if you're comfortable talk about my politics. Can I do that for a minute? Yeah? Is that okay? Yeah, Like it's not gonna be anything I haven't heard yet. Yeah for those of you, that good point for those of you that have never heard me talk about politics and and don't wanna um here that at all. We'll take a brief break and let you fast forward. Okay, we're back. Um politics. Listen. I think I've been able to vote. This will coming up. This will be the fifth election I'll have been eligible to vote in. In the previous four, I have voted for two Democrats and two Republicans. I'm not saying that to make a point. I'm just saying that's how it landed. Um. So my politics are independent and all over the place, and there's a little bit for everybody to get upset at, I think in general and how it goes. Um. But that's just it's one of the reasons what we came into this saying, you know, pro nuanced, anti bullshits. One of the reasons we came into this trying to at least imbibe a journalist or perspective while also being honest about our worldview, at least my worldview. So that's how I come out at like in terms of what I'm thinking for selection, In terms of how I'm thinking about it right now, I'm so um disenfranchised with the entire system, with the entire conversation. I have no idea if there's anyone that I could even vote for in all good conscience, especially the two folks that are will be on the ticket here coming up in the fall. Neither of them is qualified in my estimation, and I don't think either political party really has much of a leg to stand on when it comes to solving some of the greater issues in this country. So I don't know what that makes me. Um. I think socially I generally lean left. Um. Economically, fiscally the way we run this country, I probably lean right. I mean, but that's just generalizing to to to a point that UM, I'm not comfortable with. So I don't. I just am not comfortable with the buckets. And I think the idea that there are these sides to lean to one way or the other is what's wrong with the conversation anyhow, Anything surprising their film. Nope. Do you feel like that's a nonstatement? I have a I don't think that was a nonstatement. No, I feel I think a lot of kind of centrist or libertarian type views can often lead to nonstatements. It's like I used to follow kind of a lot of I'm not used to a couple of people like who would consider themselves libertarian, and they would always post these things are like without any just like hot air. It's bad on this side and it's bad on this side. So they just throw their hands up. They're like, whatever will we do? And it's like, well, fight for something like you can make progress, and uh that soul that that's why it's the both sides is ms. I just like bug the ship out of me because I feel like you're not actually fighting for anything. Yeah. No, to make it say like what I would fight for generally just doesn't fit into that one. And that's one of the things that when I say, like having these ideologies have to fit into one on version or the other, there's so much, so much self fulfilling prophecy there. If I believe if I'm a if I'm voting conservative, do I have to align with every other idea that comes to that with comes with that sect, which comes with that political party. For me, I believe I believe strongly in the Second Amendment. That's that that leans right, eh. I believe. I believe in tech and protecting the environment. I believe in things like bio diversity. UM. I tend to believe in capitalism. I tend to lean towards capitalism UM more than things like socialism or democratic socialism. I tend to lean towards that. I tend to think wokeness and performative wokeness is a bigger problem than greed when it comes to capitalism. So I could list all the things I tend to believe, um, and then you can grade them however you feel like wherever that puts me in the spectrum. I'm comfortable with that. I know that's what happens. I know everybody has. And we talked about this. One of the things that I really admire about Omar and Matt. I asked them kind of is there a purity score in hunting and in the gun culture that you have to take is as a quote unquote influencer, and if you're not doing certain things, are you not in the club? And both of them said, no, that's bullshit. There is no purity test. I am, I say what I say, I do what I do. I am who I am, UM, And their rejection of that idea is part of why I say I didn't do a great job and chatting with him, because I set it up in the negative connotation, negative context. And so I'm always happy to talk about any issue. We will continue talking about any issues, but um hunting is what we're here to talk about. And and that's kind of the worldview, and that's already been articulated here and that's where we start. But where we go from there? Who the hell knows? Um? So politics to to your to your question, alias, um, there's no real way to square up a company and a group of people who come from a bunch of different places, as just like, are there are these guys all right? Are they all left? Are there? Is their mission? This is a mission that I can tell you for sure. That we've been called left, we've been called way right, we've been called everything in between. I can tell you that this collection of people is more freethinking and more forward thinking than any that I've been a part of in my professional career. And so if you guys want to if you want to label met eater is one thing and the other, good luck with that. I'm sure you can find evidence one to to to support one argument or the other. But now we've got to get to the more important thing. We know that we want to talk about racing the outdoors. We want we know that we want to talk about the current situation. We want to find some perspective. So who better to call than my friend Charles Rodney. Feel you ready to call Charles? Yeah? Sure, yeah, sure, that's like the second, that's like anymore, that's like the transition, the transition for the show. Yeah sure, yeah. Let's see if Charles picks up Mr Rodney at home in Maryland. Charles, do you hear anybody? Yes, sir? How you doing sir? Oh, I'm doing finding yourself. I'm doing good. I'm here with our engineer Phil Say Hey Phil, Hey, Charles, how are you? And Phil? How are you doing? Great? Thank you? Well, we were just we were just moving through, Charles. I know, we talked a little bit about um everything prior, but we were just moving through some of the race and the outdoors and some politics things, some some more uncomfortable conversation. UM, and and I wanted to chat with you really quick about your story. Um. Listeners of the show will know you as the Rabbit Man the Church of Rabbit Hunting, which we love so much. But you you wrote to a piece that will that is going to be on the mediator to come really soon about your about your story right about where you came from and how you spent your life and and some of the things that you experienced in the segregation is South the Peace I sent you a few days ago. Yes, sir, that's the one. Okay, that's all right. You want to kind of take us through. You know, listeners that listening to episode thirty will know your upbringing. But can you kind of just take us through how you grew up in Louisiana? Okay? Born and raised in Louisiana, a little town called New Roads Point to p Parish. Louisiana has parishes rather than counties, to the only state about thirty miles west of Baton Rouge. Um. Growing up, we were sharecroppers or tenant farmers. And what does that mean? You live on somebody who owns the land you farm it. We farm cotton, sugarcane as crops to pay the bills and take care of us, and he we got three fourths of it and he got a fourth of it. You didn't pay rent, but you had to buy the seeds. You had to have your own track, the own equipment. You're own labor, and in most cases the labor, a lot of the labor came from the the children was one of seven. I'm the last of seven, so we had to work in the fields. Um cotton is planted in the springtime, like April, so we missed a bit of school to to get the cotton going. Once they started growing, something they call hawayen cotton or scraping cotton, you have a hole and you're working out in these fields, straight roads, lots of them, acres of them probably, and then in the fall August September, you picked them and we picked them by hands, which was like slave labor. But we're working for ourselves, so so the the living it was survival. It was meager, a survival. We we made enough to carry us through. And then there was sugarcane. Sugarcane or planted in the fall like August September, and then they grow and you harvest them that group the following year, like September two November. They usually finished by December. There were cotton meals that billa cotton. You took it there. Uh, there's a certain measurement that became a bell. And then the sugar kinge was taken to the sugar meal uh by truck. Um they picked it up and they took it by truck and they granted and then became sugar. Uh. It was brown sugar, and it took it to another meal and granulated and made it white sugar. So we got to work in in the fields. Uh. Not pleasant, but we had to do it. We missed school when you were of age, and so did many other people uh who along with us, their children miss school and worked in the field. They worked in the field for somebody else. Then we went to school. We went to Catholic school, Catholic elementary. My older brothers and sisters, who the oldest is twelve years older than me. He went to a number of schools that was in small Baptist churches along the road. We were five miles from town. So later on, Uh, the Josephite priests and the sisters of the Holy Ghost who taught us, established a Catholic elementary school for us for the black children, and then we went on to high school. Now, even though we missed school, our mother taught us a lot. We caught up our lessons. We none had to repeat a grade. So I went on to college. My older brother is a Catholic priests. Um. He's retired fifty two years and the three in between. Uh. Two sisters, one sis to finish college with advanced degree, and the two brothers UH the machinist type work welding, one work in a in a machine shop for Rockwell in California McDonald Douglas. I mean, so we we and then we grew everything. We grew. We had We had pigs, we had cows, a few two or three cows. We got milk, um, we had gardens, we had fruit trees. So we can't everything. So all of that put us over through the next year. And we got a little bit of money from our parents, but most of it was spent. We had to pay tuition, which was low. Um, can you believe it? The tuition at the Catholic school was two dollars a month. Then being the last I paid three dollars a month. Okay, uh now putting my kids. When my kids went to school, I mean it's like college because they went to Catholic Elementary in Catholic High So we had a lot of tuition bills. But we survived. So we went on. In the schools. Everything was separate. The school system was separate, the churches were separate. The doctor's office had the signs up where the color go on that side. Very vaguely remember the water fountains, but they were there. They were not in our little area, but they were in other little towns. There were stores where you had to go through the side door, and even though the people knew you, you always called boy okay, no matter how old I was. Young. I lived there from burt in nineteen fifty February nineteen fifty until I left there in the summer of seventy two as I graduated from college and I moved to Maryland and the Washington d C. To work. I did not want to stay there. There was nothing driving me to stay there. My family were not property owners, they were not business owners, so there was nothing there for me to inherit from the family and said, well, I got to carry on the family business. No, no, no, it didn't exist that way. Uh. I want to get the hell out of town, okay, and I did. But everything was separate. Even though the laws changed Brown versus the Board of Education in the fifties, it was eleven years before the high schools UH desegregated. The people fought it, and they fought it and they fought it, and the government had to do like many other places, UH send federal troops in and then once they sent them in, then right after that day closed the school. They didn't they didn't close them, but all the white kids went to academies. Some rich person gave up some lamb and they started academies, and of course we couldn't go there. Now I believe one of them still exists and it has turned into a high school, so I think there may be one or two people sending their children there. But when we grew up, there was one high school the blacks and the whole parish. Then there was two, while the white children had five schools. And we passed them, and we passed the church. The Catholic Church were Catholic, and we passed the Catholic Church. We passed one high school. Some kids passed two. So it's very heartbreaking. You're passing the school and you're going way over to another school, which means that you have to get up earlier. And the lessons were inferior. The books were inferior, and we used the books that were hand me down because you could see the names. I recognized the names of Maneta white kids that grew up along the road along we mean, so you got to hand me down books and so forth. And in sixty seven when they forced that integration and they started closing the kids, the white kids went to that academy and other cadeories. Many of them were established, but only one or two succeeded because they had a lot of money behind them. Okay, and then people move and would move their children, some of them to Baton routes to go to school so they wouldn't have to mingle. But these are the very same people actually interacted with every day. And when you go to the store, I remember this, it's going to some of the little country store, because this little country store is every mile or so. None of them exist today. But when you would go, the people that were on the store is never wanted to give you change in your hands. They put it on. You would put the money down. They wouldn't take it from you in your hand. You put the money down on the counter, and you put the money down on the counto when he gave me a change, not so you would touch. I thought I had corona or something. Way back then, do you talked about in the in the story that you wrote about the local swimming pool and um playing basketball with with white neighbors, basketball baseball with white neighbors, that you were allowed. They were allowed to come in your yard, but you can never go in there. So you talk a little bit about some of those examples. I mean, you have a lot of Let me, I'll tell you about the swimming pool, because that's the briefing. And and I'm long when it, so do cut me off. I know, we keep on going. The swimming pool, Okay, Bill, today, I very I can swim very little, which I learned later. But there was a swimming pool. And when when when the integration stuff started coming, they closed the pool. All of a sudden, the pool got closed because they didn't want us to mingle. Mainly mainly it was it was it was it was a racial and sexual thing. They wanted them black boys and everything white girls. Okay, so the pool closed. I don't think it ever open again. Now about playing with the with the young white guys that lived around us, Yeah, we played ball with them. Uh My cousin next door had an old basketball backboard that we rigged up and we played. We played ball on the dirt, and a couple of guys came over and played ball, and then we played baseball because we had a big yard and we played baseball and we would play with them. But and they were invited to come over and sit, but we were never invited to go in their yards. Okay, and that never that never happened. And we lived next door to three doors and in the in the house next door us to three different families. White families lived in us. One lived there for ex period of time and they moving, and another wife family moved and we got to norm and support and they were all around the same age or my older brother's age. So we were not allowed to mingle. And one thing you were not allowed to mingle. And as I mentioned, Mama taught us there were certain people you can associate with, the certain places you could go. There's a lot of places you couldn't go. So you never associated with some of these guys because they had sisters. I'm taking you back, and this is true. And the last thing you wanted to have said was as we said, and I don't mean any of this harm um that if you went in the yard a little white girl look at you and said something, somebody was there, a bunch of people could be there to beat you up, kill you. That's how a lot of people got killed because somebody said something that was not true, or he looked at me, oh he touched me, that kind of stuff. So we were protective of that. We were never allowed. If there were girls around, we would never allowed. It was always boys, two boys. Uh. My older brother Francis that I spoke about that taught me about hunting. There was a fellow lived two doors from us. They both loved to hunt. They were the same age. They loved to hunt and they would go hang together. But then one time his sister wanted to go with it. So Mama stopped my brother from going in because the last thing she wanted to say. They out there in the field in the woods hunting squirrels and stuff. Something be said and then now you've got all sorts of negative things happened so that that didn't exist. Okay, that's how that was. We were taught and the east you handle it and you moved on. Now today I mentioned that I see some of those guys now they're still around. And then this is nice, nice as you want to be. All that was passed, that was fifty years ago all better. My brother, as I mentioned, did the funeral, being a Catholic priests and they're Catholic too. He did the funeral for one of the sets of people mother who's way up in aage. My brother's eighty two non so this lady had to be in her nineties and they called him to do the funeral because he grew up around him. He knew them, they knew him, and he called me and he named all of these guys what's his name, twenty guys that lived up and down the road that are still around because this lady was some of their aunts. You know that the the it was this guy's mother, and then she was the aunt of three for the other guys and the cousins, and so what's all in guys are saying, and they welcome him with open arms, but just to ask him to come and do huffy because he knew him and they knew him, and it was being very respectful. He said, it was very very respectful because he could take it back and he could talk about things that went on back then. Plus he speaks fluent Creole, so he could do the homily or a sermon in English o Creole and they love it when it comes in and do that. Yeah. No, I think it's throughout, you know, throughout your story, there's all these juxtapositions, and that's part of the article that you that you wrote and will that will post um. And you spent twenty five years with various feral agencies working in human resources, staffing, position management, recruitment, counseling, employee training, and then all of that time you required to adjudicate complaints because of of acts of discrimination race, age, color, religion, national origin, mental and physical handicapped. So you had quite the turn in your life and you talk about that in this piece, and you also talk about, you know, answer this question. I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that and then then answer this question. You said, how did I survive the cultural transition from a segregated upbringing to a totally diverse environment. I think that's a huge and very important question. Well, I'll tell you what. My my editor, when she was editing, she said, I told her I gave a free hand. So she added that piece, that's your that's your wife, Judy, by the way, your editor, my wife, Judy. She's my editor and my my critic. And she'll she'll guide me and tell me. And she told me this morning, not being apostle, don't be mean, I said, I'm not mean. I don't have anything to be mean about what happened. Happened, But making from that transition is so ironic that I lived in a society that passed me over, discriminate, needed against me, treated me indifferently, not because like Martin was the king, because of my my content, but color and what had gone on centuries before. And then I come to Washington, d C. For a job, and I get a job. I started a job with with the Naval Ordnance Station, a little place called Indian Head, Maryland. Worked there a few years. I was probably first or second black, but the first black specialist, which is kind of like a professional position there. I worked there and I got I got tried a number of times there was some nice people and then there was one or two. There's always one in the group that's gotta be totally indifferent. But I progressed on because I had a family coming and I knew I had to be successful and nobody was gonna take that away from me and turned me around and I worked. I went to a number of agencies, getting advancement all the time, becoming a supervisor, becoming a manager, managing people. So not only in the people were one time I had one time I had seven females working for him for me, and I used to call them Charlie's angels. I was Charlie and they were the angels from the old show book, and they were they were mixed. All of the people that I supervised were always mixed because you have to ensure that you had a diverse staff because the law said you gotta you gotta have that diversity and you gotta have a balance. And we always had a balance before in personnel. And then I was selected to work as the equal Opportunity officer as I am today, I get involved with all sorts of activities. One way, that's how I met you, Ben, and so I would get involved in the work of the of the agency, and they saw me as someone that will be good in that position. For those who don't understand that equal opportunity you you you have, you have these programs that you provide service to the employees. You deal with complaints, alleged complaints, UM, your counsel. You had a team of voluntary people who worked as Equal Employment Opportunity councils. They worked with me. I had specialists. I had to meet with managers and directors and so forth UH to guide them and to work through this process. And I had to be neutral and ensure that everybody got fair treatment. And the guidance and the direction I gave it had to be fair and clear. I could not take size for management. I could not take size to employees, even though so people felt I should have taken sides. Though there were some UH people I assisted, I should have shoved them by the wayside. So I ran it. How I felt, and how I felt was that I need to be open, I need to talk to everybody. I need to treat people fair and ensure fairness, and I need to treat everybody in the fashion that I want to be treated. Now, I followed the rules there's certain in all offices, there's certain certain steps and so forth that you must go through, the same as you guys. You've got certain certain rules and certain timeframes and certain things you do and you don't do the same thing exists today. And I did that. I got a lot of I got a lot of credit for it. Um people felt they could be would I was trustworthy and you had the main confidence overall. I knew of things, and I would work to settle it. And when I would bring it up, I brought it up in utmost confidents. I think I probably turned some of the high ups off because there were some people that came to me. It said, some high executives that sexually arrested him and back at that time, I told him how we would handle it, and how how to handle it and so for it. And they refused to do anything, and they didn't hoping that it would go away. Well, it didn't go away because it's harm. Whether they believed they believed it was alleged. So whether they believed they were right or wrong, they believed they were right. And I told him how you handle it. So I ran the program in the best possible fashion that I could do and people liked it. I was verity. They trusted me, and I would sit folks down there no matter who came into the office, male, female, handicapped, whatever, I listened, I closed the door. My staff. If it was one of them had a small staff, they closed the door and we we talked, and they stayed there and we helped guide them properly through the process. If they didn't have a complaint and they were just making waves and there were a bunch of people I got, I told him, Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of a lot of your story, um, and why I wanted people to hear you talk today, and then why I wanted people to read your story as well goes to how you were treated when you were a young kid coming up and then how you carry it onto the rest of your life. And so you know, part of what I admired, what I think hopefully everybody listens to this admires, is that you were able to raise a family, have a loving children, loving wife, very productive, passionate about rabbit hunting, passionate about raising dogs, have a professional career that that wasn't colored by your your upbringing wasn't colored by the segregation that you um lived with growing up, and so it's it's it's nothing short of inspirational to me just to hear it, and I hope, I hope it will be to everybody as well. And you can read Charles article coming up here very soon on the mediator dot com to check that out, check out our newsletter for that. And you know, being like I told you, I told you, if you have if you have questions, UM or if you if you at some point down the road you need a part two or part three, I'm I'm willing. UM, I've got I've got plenty of time, I've got a good memory. And like I told you, if you have some questions that you would like me to respond, I'd be more than glad to respond. And growing like I said, growing up was hard. We got along. We had loving parents. Our parents taught us respect of everybody. And I mentioned how my mother taught everybody Catechism religion training and she never was paid a dime because she could read very well at that time. She went to eleven grade, which was the equivalent of twelfth grade, but she was an outstanding student. Because of money, she did not go to college. She could not go to coll College. But she had all of them making stare and she taught everybody, and she read for folks. She read letters, She wrote letters, She did taxes for some of the guys which uh in the in the neighborhood. All of that. And then my dad, my dad could not read. Okay, he could write his name, but he could not read. He was born in nineteen hundred. She was born in nineteen ten. It was ten years different in them. But they had their respect. He gave everybody out of his garden chicken and so forth, um and eggs and whatever he had he shared and shared himself. And he was both of them are full of kindness. And they made us pick this stuff and take it to these people and give it to these people. And we want why are we growing all this stuff? And grow this stuff? And we can what what we couldn't use when we finished you we gave a week. Today I find myself doing the same thing. Yeah, I was gonna say, you do it. You do that now. You're so generous for the people around you. The church, you have a I don't even say you have a group of church ladies there and and that that love you for your baking and for your rabbits, and for your vegetables. Yeah, and and the and the sisters in the convent. Um, I don't know who adopted who the they adopt me or I adopt them. I give them fish. Guys give me fish. I don't fish. They give me fish. I give it to them. My wife don't like bone fish. I'll give them the bone fish. One or the fellows um gives me a box of dear me. I give it to them, and they love it. I give them a cook rabbits and go over there and eat with them and tell them, and I tell them stories. Of course they love. They love to hear the stories. And I stretch it a little bit just for them. So uh. And I give them vegetables and and give service. So you give it all back. Whatever you give, folks, it come back to you good stuff. I'm talking about bad some bad treating people or anything like that. You do good things regardless, it comes back. Now. The sisters in the convent, they're from all over the world. Um. They there's ten or twelve of them there, and they're from about ten different countries of various backgrounds. Okay, and they are called for anybody who wants to check them out. They are called the Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara. Matara is a Spanish word. They've only been around thirty years, but they're the fastest growing group of sisters. They do charity work during about thirty five countries. They're just so. If you ever see some nuns walking around with a kind of a light blue and a gray habit, that's them. Yeah, and the all of them in the city know me, of course. They everybody knows you in your suits and your hunting stories. Charles Rodney, Well, listen, man, I could talk to you all day and we'll have you back home to keep talking about this. But like I said, I can't. I couldn't thank you enough for being willing to share your story and being so open with it. Um. I know a lot of people are inspired by it and and are listening to you and and and learning from how you look at the world. Well, let me say two quick things I feel when I when I read all of the folks comments, and I read them, I read them all, okay, and I love them. Uh. And all of you are so positive, even those who come from New Zealand in England and all over the country and places I don't know. Uh, I read them, I enjoy them. I think I feel like I'm the professor and you guys are the students. And that's all right. When I'm in a position where I'm a student with somebody that's a professor, I listened and one closing things all what happened, even though it happened. That's the way the cards were dealt based upon my lifetime and what I had to do. I had to play those cards and make them work and make them work successful for me. And I am not better. Some people might say, well, you ought to be better. Well, I'm not gonna carry bitter this for for my lifetime for fifty something that happened fifty or sixty years ago. I am not better. Uh. Jesus taught us to love, and that's what it is. And as our pastor said in a sermon, we watched him on TV. The others did the mass on TV since we can't go to church. He said, the guy who died is our brother. God is our father, whether you believe or not, and he's our brother Floyd. So you look at it that way and you think positive and you try to do good, and life goes on and life goes well, and life has treated me awfully down good, yes, sir. And yet like like you said, what you've given people has come back to you because when I spend time around your wife, Judy and your stories about your children, UM, you guys have a wonderful family, there's lots of love there. You've done things, UM for the next generation that you never had, and they're even your grandkids will even experience more of what your positive outlook will give them. Thank you the type of life and I thank you. I thank you guys for for inviting me, um, for this, this voice, and for the document that I submitted to you. I thank you for for asking me and considering because I do feel that's that's that's a special treat and I share it with people, and our children cannot wait to hear in many other people. So I think, I thank you, and I think the whole media to cooperation family, uh, for all that you have done and exposed me to well, truly it is it is our pleasure. I was talking to our mutual friend Phil Whoon the other day and we started putting dates on the calendar for next year's Rabbit hunt so um, after all this is died down and we're we're back to doing what we love to do and speaking about that. I know we'll probably both be happy men. But for now, I really appreciate you, Charles, and we will talk to your real soon, my friend. Good. Well, look, thank you very much again. Okay, thank you Charles. We'll talk really soon. Brother. I appreciate it. Man. All right, you're welcome. See all right, by great Charles Rodney going away there via skype. Um Man, you know, listen, I knew, I knew, I wanted. We should have gave Charles a whole hour. It's the one mistake that I gave, because I could listen to him talk for much longer than that, as we have on the show before. But what I will say is that I wrote this on on social media the other day, and I was very happy to hear that Charles and his family members read it and felt moved by it in some way or happy that I wrote it. But I do believe that Charles the story is one that is like book ended with this hatred and that came with segregation, and this this feeling that all of that could have welled up and turned him into, as he said, a bitter person. But it didn't. Um. And so the back half of his story is is full of love and passion and friendship and community and all the things that I think are important to all of us. I'm on an intrinsic level. So his story not only like the guy he is, is infectious, but I think his story in the way he presents it is also infectious. So hopefully I wanted to make sure this time, this day that we heard from him, because I think the timing is important and I think he is important. So fill any any thoughts about what we just heard there? Uh No, I mean, you know, it's it's always, you know, you always hear about stories of segregation. Um, at least I did, you know, just like third hand through history books, and and you know, it's just you know, it's really powerful to hear it from someone who actually lived through it and how it how it shaped the rest of their life, how they view the world now. Um. And how Charles specifically is using those memories to just to lead by example and he's full of empathy. Um. Yeah. And you know it's it's it's up to some people in power to make sure we fight so that people in the future have a better future than uh than Charles and Charles did growing up. Yeah, I mean, if you want to look at someone who's done better by their children and their children's children, just look at Charles um as an example. As an example to me, I'm not saying that I know what to do, I know how to solve these problems, but I know for sure that if I listened to Charles Roles, and how have you all listened to him as well, there's learnings in there. Um, There's there's betterment in there, and so that's what is important to me at this time. It's important that somebody like Charles has something to say and it's willing to share it. So thanks so much to him, his wife Judy, and his entire family for being willing to kind of put themselves out there in this way, and and thanks to you for listening to it. Um. I will continue to ask him for advice and to just call him to chat, and will impart as much of that on the show as we can going forward, because this isn't gonna be the last time, you know, we talked about racing the outdoors. Of course, it isn't the it isn't the first either, So we're gonna keep that at top of mind going forward. But for now a little bit more talk about that, more talk about gun culture and hunting culture and just being a positive force in this world. Um. As I said earlier, Matt Best and Omara Vila impressed me. As though I thought they wouldn't. They absolutely um drove me. They gave me a good weekend. If I'm being honest with you. Um. I talked to them on Friday and Saturday and Sunday. We're we're glorious for me because I was following their example. So enjoy and Matt that crispy what's up man? What's up brother? What are you doing on again? What are you doing down there? Nothing much? Just hiding from everybody. Yeah, that's probably a good I can't go any for I don't I want to do. I wanted to do like pleasantries, and but I can't go any further without asking you about the rap song. Somebody read a rap song about you. Yeah, so a friend of ours, the Marine rapper, Um he uh, you know, he obviously is a rapper and does all a bunch of stuff and uh, he hit me up. He's like, yo, I got a really really good rap for you, and I was like, all right, cool, put it down to do it, and he ended up doing send it to me. And that's the one that I posted the other day. Dude, it was It's unbelievable. He's really good. He's actually really good. So he's a marine rapper. Yeah, he was in the Marine Corps, got out and that's his name, is the Marine Rapper Rapper whatever. People go over there to Christie's page and listen to it. I'll probably go on tour pretty soon. But man, it is fire. As the kids say. We're working out the details. I'm supposed to come out with a flamethrower for the show starts and then that's what we kid get off. Yeah, I got a lot. I even have more questions now before we get to that. Matt Best, what's up? How you doing? Man? Oh man? Thanks for joining us. Um. For those of you that don't know Matt, there's so much to know. But the first thing, the first question I have is I was watching the Quarantine music video that you made, and in that music video there was a little small shot of Charlie Sheen. I was like, Matt Best knows Charlie Sheen. I gotta I gotta ask him about that. We called in all of our famous friends to do a pretty cool cameo for that. Crispy was one of them. Of course we had to save the best for last. We put them later in the video. But Tim Montana actually who co wrote that with me, is a friend of Charlie Sheens, and so he's like, man, I'll get Charlie Sheen in the video. I was like, all right, that sounds cool. Yeah, that's the I was very entertained. I was like, these dudes are musical too, in a way that I never thought. Um, so congress, but that's all mad by the way. I'm I'm no way me or have no talented music. So Christie plays the you know, the uh was the cow bell for us. So he's really good. Yeah, I'm pretty good on the triangle. So if you ever never to come in there, it's all in the hips, the triangle, that's all in the hips. Well, um, that we want to talk about today, but you know, we can't go any further. We can't do anything anymore without talking about the goings on in our world. So like, let's start with quarantine. Matt you. You were making everybody laugh during quarantine on your Instagram and YouTube. What's what's happening over your way during that time? Man? Uh, you know, I'm in a pretty fortunate position. I'm sure similarly to Crispy. You know, I live in some acreage. I live in um pretty much the middle of nowhere outside of San Antonio, and so my active lifestyle is working from home and pretty much I have a home gym, and I have supply of food and water, and so I'm not really a prepper. But nothing extravagant really changed for me, other than cutting back on a lot of the travel that I do. I'd normally travel like the two different states a week almost and that got cut. So it's actually kind of nice to not have to travel. And I know a lot of people had a less fortunate experience during this than me, but it's kind of been nice to hang out the dogs and the wife a little more. Yeah, that's all. We did a daily show for a while right in the beginning of Quarantine, and probably did total podcast during the time, you know, when Montana at least where we are locked down, and I we didn't talk to anybody that was a hunter angler done own or whatever that didn't say just about what you just said, like, we're prepared. My life set up in a way where I don't need much anyway. So um, I think that's just part of the lifestyle. We all kind of lead man couldn't agree more. And that's kind of when we wrote that lyric in do Quarantine, all my anti hunting buddies reaching out to me. I'm sure Crispy is in the same exact situation where people are like, man, you've got any extra deer meat. I'm like, yes, but she dying given it to you. And then I got hit up by to lend people firearms and like, first, that's illegal. Uh So it's an interesting, um psychological impact that it had in a lot of people that change their kind of value system based off of necessity. And I think that hopefully it opened some eyes to a lot of people that might disagree with hunting and the Second Amendment. So I think, you know, unfortunate times sometimes give you a little silver lining, yeah, for sure. And I think for for me, I wonder what you think, Krispy, But I would just go out my garage and open up my chest freezer and just look into it. And it's very satisfying just looking for sure, Like, dude, I did that almost every other day. I opened it and I was like, do I want do I want access? Do I want there? Do I want white tail? You know what? Maybe some of the red Stag or maybe some of this moves that I have left over from Alaska. And then I go back inside and you know, you watch TV and all these people on the stories like there's no meat. I'm like, I got plenty of it. This is where we live off every single year. Like this is not doomsday prepping. I'm not like, oh we gotta you know, no one knew this was coming, but you know from from the past season and everything that that we do, you know, fortunate enough to have had meat in the freezer, so you know, we weren't running to the stores like everybody else and interacting with with a bunch of people when when they said it was supposed to be horrible and bad and all that stuff. But I think Christy and I got pretty lucky too, because him and I had just ended a hunt before this happened. I killed a red Stag and he killed a couple of deer. So right when I got my beat, back from the processor. I got about another four on some meat. So it's like I'm good for a while. I did. I had those two deer back, and then I had an access and I can't remember what else that I picked up the same time when all that stuff was going on. Yeah, that's the for us here. It's just it's nothing changes other than the value other people put on what you got going on. You know, I'll tell you, guys, I had. I've had a vegan on the show. His name is Dr Robert C. Jones. He's a vegan philosopher out of Berkeley, which is all obvious. Um. He and he he said, I said, well, what's been going on with you during quarantine? He said, I've been thinking about self sufficiency? And I thought, well, no, wonder um. And so like I think even him, without knowing it, he wasn't mentioning that because the guns or game meat. He was thinking that he was going to try to learn to change his car battery instead of having someone else do it. But but that's like it bleeds into this idea that I think we all followed, that self sufficiency and that knowledge base that we have about what's how to defend ourselves and how to go outside and get things just helps it works in this scenario. You know, Um, anything else, Chrispy, any other fun things from quarantine that you came up with. I know, Uh, everybody should needs to go watch Matt's quarantine video. What was that song called Matt? What was the title? Quarantine? Shockingly? Huh uh? Not a lot man. You know, I got lucky, like you know Matt said, we both live in the areas where you know, we're away from everybody and down the road, I got a friend that owns about eight hundred acres, and you know, still went turkey hunting, still went out there and had fun, run around in my Polaris, shot my guns. That what I needed to do, I mean, everyday stuff. Again, Like the same thing that Matt said, Nothing changed for me other than the travel, like you know, leaving the state and heading over and doing my speaking engagements and everything else that that we do over a black rifle. Um, nothing really changed for me other than that And the same thing, like, you know, I got to spend some time you know with my fiance here at home and the dog and you know, just kind drove each other nuts a little bit, you know, it's kind of getting ready for marriage, like do we really want to do this? And I was like, ah, you're all right, let's do um. But yeah, I mean other than that, nothing, man, I mean everything continued to be the same for me, other than you know, doing collapse with other friends and going to see each other. Like I really haven't seen Mattsins. This whole thing went down, and you know, we were literally texting the other day asking me. You know that's all. I was like, dud, let's do a crawfish bowl and it's just I'll get together, you know. I mean, I think it's time like this is this has just gone on too long. Yeah, what's what's Texas doing right now? What's I know you're there in all around Austin, like in Montana, We're we're eating that restaurants, we're going and doing our thing or basically fully opened up. What are you guys working on? I think we're at fifty percent capacity? Matt? Is that right? I think? Uh, I'm not mistaken. I think it's fifty cent capacity. I mean, uh, Christen and I went to a restaurant not long ago, I think about three weeks ago, and we went in there with my dad, and it was us and another family and it felt a little aerie, like, man, there's there's really nothing going on. And then from from that to three four days later, I mean, everybody was back in the road and shopping in an HV. You know, before there was a line to go inside HBV. Now everybody's just like you don't even have to wait. You know, people are no longer wearing masks. But I was none of that. So I've noticed that, and I don't know, to be honest with you, even for me at the beginning, I was like, whatever, if I get it, I get it. I'll be all right after what you've been through in your life. And by the way, if you haven't heard our first episode, Chris, people will take a break and let you go listen to that welcome back. And I know everything there is to know about Crispy um Matt. How did how did Black Rifle Coffee du during during this time? How are they how are you guys doing during this time? And what did you do to kind of to push things forward? Absolutely, I think, uh, we're doing We're doing well. You know. Fortunately we are classified as an essential business because coffee is king and most of our lives and you of our business a little over nine is direct consumer e commerce space. So we already had the technology kind of implemented for you know, meetings and VTCs and all these things, so we we were kind of ahead of the curve, and right when the stuff started happening, we took preliminary measures and only had essential people you know working in the roasting facilities, and then pretty much we let all marketing work from home. And we're still kind of in that uh battle rhythm right now of just hey, if you don't need to be in y be in keeping everything as far as the coffee and everything super quarantined. Um, so we're being healthy and all that. But no, it's been pretty good. You know. We we couple the shops shut down for a while here in Bernie, Texas where I live. We just got the coffee shop reopened, which was nice because that hit them pretty hard. Um. And that's kind of been my biggest advocacy through all of this is if you have the ability financially support local businesses, do it because a lot of these people are in their last leg um. And if you can get out there and you know, eat out two or three times a week, do it if you can. That's what I've been trying to do with with my family is get out and support him because a lot of them didn't have, you know, cash reserves for six months to operate, and the last thing you'd ever want to see is local businesses fall. Yeah. Yeah, I've been been become a huge tipper, not that I wasn't before, just to be clear, but I've doubled my tipping every time we go out. And I think it's just that you can feel, you can feel that, you can feel the thankfulness to those people, understand that your your patriotage means a little bit more now um than it did because we've all kind of we I've got to see what it's like not to be able to just go out and grab a bite to eat with the family, and those folks have gotten to see what it's like to not have a place to go to work. Indeed. So it's it's been tough, but I don't think we can. I don't want to dwell on our current on the George Floyd stuff and the current state of affairs in the world too long because I want to talk about hunting culture, gun culture, social media, all that stuff that you guys are immersed in, and so am I. But again, I don't think we can we can do a whole lot without at least touching on that. Um, Chris, but you saw what I wrote with my black square on on the internet. Um what what are you thinking? Man? Like? What's going through your head during all this? I mean, there's just so much stuff going on, man, And I think, Um, you know, now you have footage of what really happened. And I think stuff like this happens often and happens a lot, and you hear from it, but now you really have footage of what actually happened. And you know, I just it just blows my mind how many people start picking sides and how we start attacking one another instead of coming together and fixing our country and really attacking things like that that are happening and instead of pointing the fingers. It's all the police departments, it's all these guys. It's not all of them, like you know, it's at the at the end of the day, it's that individual person. And you know, he was a shitty person. And I think we encounter that and everywhere we go, you know, we've encountered I've encountered hunters having kind of shitty persons in the military and in civilian world. It's not just that department and the people. I think it's the person and ultimately that that's what it is. And you know, when you start getting support and he starts getting all these things and people are actually out there talking about it, um, you see the division. You see how people can be cruel to one another. And and that's kind of where I come in. And I guess that's kind of where the hippie sidemy comes out and just like yo, like, come down, stop attacking one another, stop being so radical, Let's come together, let's talk, and let's figure something out on how you know, we can move on. Like it's it happens, man like it. I've been racially profiled multiple different times, and it doesn't stop me from hanging out with my friends. And it doesn't stop hanging me like with my white friends or my black friends. It doesn't that that doesn't the experience that I've had doesn't really make it that I can't hang out with white folks or black folks, you know what I mean. Like, it's just it was that individual person that had hatred in their heart because I mean, most of my best friends are white. And and you know, I can't sit here and tell you that every white person is bad because it's it's just not. I think it comes like again, it comes down to being an individual person and having that hatred and the way you were brought up. And you know a lot of people like to point fingers at white people for being racism. And I'll be honest with you, man, Hispanic people are the most racist people I know. Do I know? Like that people know your story. You came your dad drove you across the border with some birthday balloons. Yeah, and and said and told the folks at the check station that you're going to a birthday party and you never went. And now you're here, and now there's so many hundreds of thousands people that follow you and see you as American hero, which you are. Um, how do you how do you kind of relate that story to what all these people are feeling right now and kind of the fight that they you know that they see there's I'm sure there's like an appreciation for this nation and what it provided you, but also like you know what racism is. Yeah, I mean, you know It's something that that I mattered with every single day because you do see things like that, and and it does hurt, and it makes me want to get out and just you know, just go out and and just go off on this person and go off on different cypject matters. But I think that the older that I've gotten and and the people that I've surrounded myself with, I've been able to step back and really think and really process things and and and then release a statement. Um, but men's it is a hard thing to deal with. But ultimately, man, at the end of the day, you know, the way that my my parents raised me is always never act like a victim, Always be kind of others, and always put yourself and somebody else's shoes and what they're going through and then go from there. So, I mean, again, just so many mixed emotions and man, and I really it's taking a few days to kind of talk about it. And and what I really love is I've been able to call some of my black buddies and talk to them and be like, hey, like let's talk, like what do you deal with on a daily basis? And then I've done the same thing with some of my white friends, like, Hey, how do you feel you're being portrayed? And having conversations with people like that has really opened my mind too, what's going on in the world and and how we're so quick to judge others without really having a conversation and really slowing it down and and understanding one another. Yeah, Matt, what's uh? You know? I know like you've been active, You've talked about all kinds of things on social media. What have you found like thinking about talking about this or or what how you approach might be. I think it's a hyper complex environment that we're we're trying to articulate here because there's so many different things happening. And first and foremost, I think with the tragic death of of that individual, right, there's already criminal charges being placed against the police officer, which there's should be, and I think there's an immediate solution to the individual that acted in criminal intent. And then from there, if you believe that there's systemic issue within law enforcement, well we don't change that by rioting right. Peaceful protests is awesome, and I get it that you're you're spreading that, and you know, kind of a Christie point too. I grew up in a military culture from seventeen. I served with black I served with Hispanics, I served with Asians, I served with gay I who cares man like? No one cares right. It's about the character of the individual that should define them, not wherever they came from. And I think most of us in two thousand twenty believe that. But the problem is is during these peaceful protests, you have trash terrorist organizations like Antifa, which are inciting violence, and they're breaking down the same economies throwing rocks, and these looters are throwing rocks through businesses that are on the fallout of an economic crisis pre existing from the COVID nineteen stuff. And so you're damaging these communities and setting us back, let alone the taxpayer money that has to go into the communities. And people like and I get it's hard to talk to youth sometimes, but they need to take a step back, be a little more emotional intelligent, Go how do I make the biggest difference here? And it's it needs to be unifying and not divisive. And if they're like again, if there's a problem with law enforcement in your area, let's focus on that. But no one's talking about the multiple African American or black guys that have died during the looting and protests police officers. There was a retired cop that got shot over a TV and killed, Like, where is where is the hysteria about that? You know, because people are just so quick to have their own self affirmation and look at me, look at me, you know, and it's just it's a bizarre, bizarre world. And I think a lot of that is based and stemmed off of social media and this self affirming bullshit that people put out like not a racist, Like yeah, you shouldn't be a dumbass, Like why do you need it? Like that's why I didn't player, Like I don't need to convince Chrispy that I don't like him because Max he wanted best friends. I don't care that he's missing a leg and you know it still looks more handsome than me. No, don't care. It's about how he treats me. He treats he comes over and treats my wife and me with respect and love. And I've had great stories with him, and never once other than a couple of jokes have we have we brought up race And that's just a fun thing, but we're family and and and more people need to see that. And the more that we become divisive, like we're gonna go down the white privilege route again. Like it's just I don't I inherently disagree with it. And I wish people would come to the table with more educated conversation rather than emotional based arguments and knee jerk reactions. But that's our society because social media. Yeah, yes, it's it's sad to see people running to both sides of their political corner and trying to defend to take to to defend rioting or to defend a police officer that murdered a guy. And broad Daylight is like using your political stance or your worldview to defend like violence, uh, to defend lawlessness, to defend these things because you have an ideology that agrees with the reason for whatever happened, that doesn't make sense. You have to find other ways to solve these problems. And it's escalation of force, right, I mean and and by force meaning you can start with conversation. Escalate is necessary. Right. I hope to never use violence against the human ever again. Right, But if it comes to someone holding me and my wife at gunpoint, I'm gonna drop his face with a bunch of nine mill rounds. But I hope to absolutely never do that. Yeah, exactly, And so that it's what what you know, you're shocked and all and appalled by the video of George Floyd, and then you move on to like what you move on from that? Everybody agrees that that was awful. It was murder and secondary and murder is at the very least the charge of that police officer should have gotten. I haven't heard of anybody. I don't know if you have, you guys seen anybody not agree with that. No, I think on all political spectrums people are agreeing that is murdered, and that's where the judicial system comes in to get him a trial and and convictim of murder if that's the case, right, absolutely one pent. But like there's so many more complex conversations going on here, like where are these bricks coming that people are dropping off? And like there's so much out there that like we should be a little concerned on who's influencing or society to act in this because not that I'm a tin hat ware, but people are trying to be disruptive in American society right now. It could be Russia, it could be Antifa. I don't know, you know, I'm too dumb, butlins in you know, those are bigger conversations that are dividing a whole entire country. Oh for sure. Yeah, and I think that. You know, ram emanual Um once said never let a good crisis go to waste, and and I'm not I'm sure he's not the first person to say that. And that goes both ways, right, It goes is like, never let a good crisis go to waste in a in a positive way, like when this something like this happens, you have to you can you can create change out of it that it can you know, swell up into too positive reform. But also there's plenty of people that think, never let a good I'm going to be a crisis actor. I'm gonna be someone who pushes these buttons and turns this into something that's not for my own personal gain. And I mean, you see it every single day, dude, I posted the other day and most of the day again, I guess it's you know again you said about and the best never let it go to waste? Right And you're seeing people that are out there actively I wanted to make a difference, make make uh you know, an impact in their communities. And then you have people that are out there acting like they're helping, like that girl that I posted where she was acting like she was helping, you know, drill some uh plywood on a window because there was there was gonna be a protest, and she literally got off, had her boyfriend take a picture, got back in her car, and left and that was it. Like she didn't help at all, she didn't do anything. And you know, I'm sitting there like we want to make change, we want to do all these things. We talk about how how we should do it and what we should do, and then you have people like that that just want the fucking picture and don't want to work or do anything. And it's just like, it really obsess me when you see things like this because they're just doing it for that social media you know cloud. I guess you can say or with the cool kids say now, but it's just like, look at me, I was helping. And even today there was this this Russian actress that stood in the middle of the protest, you know, half naked and said Black Lives Matter, She took the picture, got on a newber and left, like, come on, people, you know we're here saying we want to make a difference. We want to like yeah, like come on, yeah. And that's that's where, like everybody the criticism of the Black Squares come in and I'm with that, man, I'm with it, Like that's fine post that. Oh well, but um, what are you doing? What are you really doing? Um? What are you really saying? What are you really willing to say? Because a lot of times, even for the three of us, like there's you know, I say something, I lose followers. Everybody has a little bit of something to lose, so that makes it easier just kind of stay out of the fray, right man. I mean, Matt, you're a co founder of a huge business. Um, you know you have something to lose if you speak out. I assume at least. Yeah. I mean I pick and choose my battles, right of course. And you know I've been asked about that before. And I put my passion and desire into the veteran community and making change. And that's why, you know, we work with guys like Crispy who have the same perspective on where they want to change life. I'm only one man. I can only incite so much change in a positive way that I believe in. And for me to get engaged in emotional conversation that's not fact based is a lose lose for me personally. So that that's why I stay a lot away from that. And like, does racism exists? Yeah, of course it does. There's piece of ships in this world. We all know that. But why paint that all Mexicans are a racist? Are all white people racists? Like, no, the majority aren't. Let's band together and fight against racism and educate people that it has no correlation to the type of person they are based off of their race. And that's what we should be doing, not like having these factions of people fight and then women stripping naked to take a photo and going away in their thirty dollar black uber or whatever the case. It's just ridiculous. Yeah, we we've kind of did. Like this thing is devolved into something that I don't think anybody could have predicted when when this front, when it for started. I think a lot of that is connected to what we started talking about. People are desperate, they're disenfranchised. And I the one thing I'll say, and I said it on the show before, is I'm just I'm enfranchised. I love this country and I know both of you guys do because you fought for it. And I want everyone to feel like I feel. Um, I just want you to feel the way I feel about this country, this world. I think it's I'm lucky to be alive. When I wake up in the morning, I'm like, damn right, and I get going and man, and wake up in a country where everybody has the same opportunities and and and this is coming from a person that was here illegally, you know, twenty years ago or whenever the hell we came or I don't remember, but came here illegally, got my citizenship and decided to join because that's how I felt that I wanted to give back And doesn't necessarily mean you have to do it, but you know, get back to your community and whatnot. And every single day I wake up happy and proud and just this, this this brightness in me that I'm an American and I can wake up and go achieve my Wilders dreams because we're all able to. And you know that's another thing when I hear people say, well, I can't get a job because I'm a minority and I'm there, so I'm that or I don't have these opportunities, is like, dude, I'm here to tell you you do have them. There's resources everywhere. You just gotta find them and put yourself out there and do it. And that's the great thing about America and that's what I love, and that's how I want everybody to feel and realize that we are the greatest country because of that. Yeah, I think this this whole conversation, like is this something man? Even in our office here at Meat Eater, um, in my personal life, everybody's talking about it. Everybody, you know. I think everybody I talked to it it wants to have a solution, wants to know what to do. So I like, I really appreciate you guys taking a little bit of time to talk about it because it's it's hard to it's hard to get it right. We're probably not going to get it right, but no, as you said, Matt, we're just gonna keep getting better at it and do what we can do every day as people. Yeah, my my last advice in that it's just like everybody needs to take a chill pill. Right, We're all like a composition of conditioning. We've all had experiences their life that might make you feel one way about a culture or someone else. If you just take a step back and when someone disagrees with you or has a different opinion and not go you're an f an idiot and you just go okay, okay, why do you think that way? And then have that conversation, you might actually fucking learn something or they could learn something you like, twenty two year old Matt was an idiot and thirty three year old Matt is a little less of an idiot. Right, So it takes time to learn and learn the environments around you and experience any things in life. Just just take the opportunity to be a sponge and learn and and it's like the best advice I could ever give people is just relax a little bit. Yeah. The fact I think both of you guys are just good examples of those things too, Like where you came from, where you are, the things you've done to serve, the things you've you've done. As you know, mad as an entrepreneur, is is just like a thought leader saying for you crispy, Like when I first met you, you weren't where you are today. Even you know, I was a jackass when we first you didn't have any rap songs or anything that I was aware of, So even from then, so now it's amazing see how far you've come. Um, but it wouldn't have mattered I fucking Doug, Doug, how you were and how you purcha thing as the first moment I met you, no matter what you were doing otherwise. So I think that it's good to have folks like you out there, and that's why I's excited we could get you both on at the same time because, um, because it's just being an influencers is kind of a bullshit word, but being an example it's certainly not in my opinion. Yeah, so I feel like I'm just on a cool call with like one of my best friends in you. Is it's cool cocktail hour or something I should have I had that idea, man, because we've done like we did a review of Tiger King and got real drunk. I feel like this could have been the same if I had a brought I didn't bring any any alcohol to the party. Unfortunately, Listen, I gotta bothered Jamin with an arm's reach. So that's all You're welcome. It's like four or five, four o'clock on a Friday and you're in, You're neck in the wood. So like it it is, it's happened. We're a hunting podcast talk about all kinds of things, but I wanted to talk about kind of like the intersections of hunting culture and gun culture and like how all of this is kind of spun up over the years. I've been a part of it. I worked at the n r a UM. I've also been attacked by them, so like I know a little remember that, So I like I I understand a little bit of the dynamical both sides um and how it feels to kind of have to like pass the purity test um and so Matt in terms of the purity tests, and what I'm referring to is kind of like how legit you are in each space because the hunting you have to do a certain thing or project a certain thing to be legit. And I know in the gun culture there's there's you know, in the tactical culture, there's a way as well, like how would you articulate, you know, kind of how we work. How our culture kind of defines these these purity tests. Um, shoot, man, I don't know. I mean for for me, Like I didn't set out to necessarily influence people in one culture. I mean I've been called I romanticize gun culture. I believe by the Washington and Post or whoever. The thing's great. I get a quick story, and that I told the interview guy when he showed up. I laid all my guns out in my house and I was wearing Ranger panties and cowboy boots and picked them up in my razor and I was like, let's just let's just take this dude for a while. Texas rat Um No. I mean, I I just I post what I love, right, So I do the things that I love. I don't necessarily do them for like clout or people to think I'm a cool guy with guns. I just love the Second Amendment. You know. I I am deployed in multiple capacities over nearly a decade, and my main life saving equipment was a firearm, and so I believe that I'm fairly efficient with it. And if I can go out there and um preach you know, responsible firearm ownership, I think it's an amazing thing, and the problem is a lot of people they're so afraid of what they don't understand. And I think that's really the outside perspective on the gun community is where a bunch of gun nuts that are loose cannons, And I'm like, trust me, Chris, be me. You were the guys you want on our team if something goes south. And I think a good lens and new perspective that people have seen throughout the COVID in in these these lootings is I can't call the cops. They're there. Bandwidth is capped, so I have to be responsible for my own safety. And it's a very freeing thing to know that you can be self relying yourself with proper training and understanding how a firearm works and implementing that is life saving equipment if you have to use it. And hopefully, like my previous statement, I never have to shoot anybody ever again in my life. That would be a godsend. But I'm not going to be ignorant and live in a fake bubble that someone crazy idiot might not try to come onto my house property at two in the morning and gun me down. That's why I sleep within a R and it's like, well, you don't need that, you know, bullshit? Yes I do. Yeah, Christy, do you want to talk about the purity test a little bit too, and whether you you had to take it and people have like attacked you for for that, Like you can both tell me that's bullshit too, like no, there isn't one, or I'm getting wrong. No, yeah, yeah I was. I was literally just gonna say that it's bullshit. There's no purity test there, there's no none of that. I mean, you know, I guess I and welcome with open arms and the gun industry just because I use them, I utilized them. I talk about him, you know, I always I just love weapons. Again, it's something that I held in my hands, saved my lives overseas. Multiple times. I was able to use that that weapon to save my buddy battles lives, you know, So I keep these things very close to me. And and just to draw the same thing that Matt said, I've set this in numerous numerous podcasts and magazines. It's, you know, my time is done in the service I you know, all the stuff that I did overseas and the lives that I took, I left all that behind. And I would never, ever in a million years wanta killed an American to protect myself. But if it happens, it happens. But I'm not out there constantly hoping, you know, like I'm like with some motherfucker would so I can, you know, bust it out and I can be featured in the terray and you know, they come into my house and they because they're so quick to do that ship you know that they'll jump over and they're like, look at this guy, you know, and then you use you, you know, for whatever the other political reasons are. But it's just one of those things now. I I you know, I grew up because I joined when I was about eighteen. I grew up with with firearms and I've always known them and I've used them to hunt and I go to the range and it's therapy and I you know, I keep all these things going. And another thing that it does for me, it's very therapeutical. And it helps me with my hands because I got a load magazine. I gotta keep that triggered discipline. I gotta make sure I got a good grip on my handgune. So all these things are helping me, you know, make my life better every single day because it's keeping all my joints going, you know, they're not getting stiff and ant of that. So to me, there was never this purity of like I got accepted by the gun industry because um this to do it is no, It's just I was. I've always been me, and I do me. And if people like it cool, if they don't fuck them, I don't care they don't pay my bills. I can honestly say that to you right now. I don't care what others think about me. I waiting into all this and I kind of just love to well, as some folks have said, like just court these issues that are kind of fraud, that have duality, that have gray areas, that just don't have things like that's just my personality is maybe unfortunate at some level, but it's it's it also helps me understand you know, some of these issues and all the things we've talked about up until now all have gray areas and nuance and different things that um, they're never gonna be uh one way or the way you want them. And there's no reason to be an absolutist. And I think what you both were kind of just saying there, if I could maybe summarizes that's it, Like just there is no absolute way to be in this culture. You just be yourself. And both of you guys have had good success, Like Matthew, you, what do you attribute like black Rifle success and your success and and Evans success all of that, what do you attribute that to something particular? Hard work? You know? I like I said that the times I work out, I work work out my intelligence. Man, I'm not that smart of a guy. I just I just go to the grind every single day. And I don't fall into victim culture. I've had tragedy in my life. I've had failures, I've had you know, depression, I've had all these things. But I don't let it conquer me. I consistently just wake up and go I gotta be a better fucking version of myself. And you know, and maybe some of that stemming from you know, tragedy and in the military and seeing friends that got lost way too early. And it's like my obligation, as is an American and a human to be a good dude and and try to inspire people to live a happy, quality life by any means necessary. And uh, you know, I I think for Evan and I, we just saw a big hole in American business as far as how do we create a cultural movement that supports our veterans, you know, And it didn't really exist at the time. And you know, we do a lot of comedy based stuff and satire based stuff because as Crispy knows, and I'm sure you do a lot of the way we dealt with these like really dark situations was having a mccab sense of humor, having like we could joke about terrible things. And it didn't mean that we believed in the statements or the narrative of the joke, but it was a way in a relief system for us to like clear minds and then be mission focused. And I I it doesn't mean that I don't fall into my own holes here and there all the time, but I just try to stay mission focused. What matters. I want my dad to you know, live out his retirement and be super happy. I want my wife to be love her life, and I want my my best friends and my family like and then it just grows and grows from community country and if I can be an advocate for that and show people that you can kind of throw away all the bullshit that life throws at you and take your punches and get back up. Then then I think I'm doing an okay job. Do you guys both? I mean it sounds to me like you guys both think that your time in the military put that in you, grounded you and made you understand what how quickly you can all go away? Yeah? I think, uh, I think the military taught us how to appreciate life, how to appreciate the live of things, and not to take anything for granted. You know, I think Matt and I both saw a lot of friends die around us at a young age. And you know that that that shakes you up, that that forever will change you. I mean it changed me. You know. I used to be this freaking kid that thought he had the whole worldom because he was, you know, a collegiate athlete, and you know I thought I was billy badass go another military at all. But I mean the military changed that all for me. I I saw one of my best friends die in that vehicle with me that day, and lost another great friend that day, and then lost about four teens and the whole deployment and It forever changed me. It taught me to appreciate life, to really be a kind person. I mean, there's just so many things that it taught me that it's changed me into who I am today. I completely agree with that. I mean you can you can summarize that in so many different ways. Like life so white light switch. You never know when someone's gonna turn it off. You know, we're born terminal. Uh, there's no trust rehearsal. And when you're you experience how quick life and how fleeting it is. It really gives you a profound respect of the time here on earth and how important it is to lead with love and empathy and then always have you know, violence as a tool that you hope to never pull out that toolbox. But the reality is there's some really evil people in this world, and um, you know, but yeah, the military absolutely shaped my perspective on life and and it's mad. It's made me an absolute better person. It really has what Matt, what's uh in terms of hunting, what's that done for it? Like, I know we've kind already touched on that, like kind of the extrinsic stuff that you know, the stuff that we get from the meat and kind of the benefits. But what for you personally, has has you know, hunting done? Um, you know, I grew up hunting fishing. Um, it's pretty crazy your parents let you do that. When my brother, who's about three and a half years older than me, when I was like twelve and thirteen, my dad would give us a twelve gates shock and at twenty two back when you could do this, and we drive out, you know, four hours up in the hills and is some of the fondest memories I've ever had. And Crispy knows my brother real well, Alan, and we would just take a sleeping bag, a little gas burner and literally hunt for food and we bring one m r E. And it was just so freeing to be a part of the environment and being self reliant on yourself. UM. And I think now after I've been deploying pretty much my whole twenties and I mean my thirties, now I have the ability to go experience these awesome, awesome um community based activities like hunting and waking up in the morning with Crispy and a lodge and drinking black rifle coffee and then shooting the ship while we put on our camo and then going out and then really but treasuring the harvest and the process of hunting it is. It's just amazing, and I think you have a far more intimate and profound respect for wildlife when you see this gorgeous, beautiful red stag and then you take its life and you see the process of you know, processing it, and then it turns into Crispy coming over to my house and now we're eating red stag burgers today, laughing about life. I mean, the whole experience and start to finish. It's just it's absolutely amazing, and it gives you so much more respect in this crazy ecosystem that we have. Yeah, Krispy, I gotta ask you how you guys met. But Chrispy, give me follow that up, dude, How we met? Yeah, I gotta just just give me how you met, because I feel like you guys. So we met at Shot Show. Um, you know Shot Shows, just that that thing we met out there, and then um, I think we got drunk at the club exchange numbers and you know, we all went home and then Matt called me out of nowhere and he's like, hey man, I'm doing this piece about my favorite five top military people or whatever, like you you a cave, I use some of yourself on social media and like the whole time, I'm like, hello, why is he calling me? And uh, you know, I went from there. And then you know, when when Black Raffles started and they went in south Lake, I flew out there and hung out with them and just super fucking awesome, dude, open arms, every I mean just just just felt like family. We're off the getto man like, open arms, no judgment, no no no judgment from previous stuff and nothing. It was just like, hey, you know, we we like who you are, like we just stand for and you know, welcome to the family. And that's pretty much how we met, man. And then you know, we've been super close friends ever since. And you know, I mean, I can't even imagine ever tell you all the things that that Mad Nevin and everybody's done for me and how they've been there for me since since since that day. And then I just love these dudes. And it's it's kind of hard to look back at that and say that's how we've met, because I felt like we've been family for so long that I kind of want to say, like, oh, you know, he's my my cousin from so and so or whatever. But yeah, yeah, uh, Matt, I mean you're gonna have to say some some way nicer things about Crispy here in the Battle Africa. I mean, yeah, we can do the hype train here. Uh. I don't think Crispy knew how much she inspired me. I followed him on Instagram and I had called him because I was doing this kind of third party in media where they asked me my top five like inspirational veterans. And it's hard to pick because I knew so many epic dudes and metal recipients. But there's something that really stood out about Crispy was his story and it's so in line with my mission statement in life. I mean, Crispy has every opportunity to be a victim. He could sit on his couch and go, woe is me? Look at me, I'm burnt, I'm missing a limb. Give me life, But he said, funk that, and now he's taken life. And it's so inspiring to see someone that is um considerably socially look that as a far less fortunate person than me crushing it and being more inspirational than me. And it like it motivates the literal ship out of me to know that there are people out there that can work through all the hardship in life and not only to benefit their own life, but to be a leader in the community. And I just love, love, love that mentality, and I want to partner with people going forward that spread that message message to get rid of this like bullshit victim social media culture that goes like, let's let's help out, let's help people sucking a man like, let's do good in this word, let's leave it better than we we saw it when we got here. Yeah, I mean, that's it's funny, like hear you guys say that because I have so many and and Crispy knows this about like the guys that archery country or a bunch of people that I've met through hunting and the people I have on this show, Like I feel and I would echo what you said, man, I feel like it's just a bunch of dudes just talking like there's nothing like we kind of every time you talk, I say amen in my head. I don't know if I say it out loud, but there is there's this version where people at hunt or people that kind of especially you guys have shared experience in the military, which I don't have. But I see it in the hunting world. I meet other people who are, you know, in the profession, and we have a professional friendship, and at least it starts that way, and then we think the same we value the same things. And I don't know if it's a chicken or the egg, whether it's hunting that kind of is the glue, or it's just the type of people that are drawn to doing something like this, talking about this stuff for a living, doing it for living or whatever. But I see it, man, I've had a lot of things that started at as kind of a professional friendship and an admiration that turned into just like a deep, um, long lasting, lifelong thing. Um is that is that kind of how you feel? Crispy? Yeah, I say, I guess. Moving on, um to the social media aspect of it. I mean, both of guys spent a lot of time there. That's how I know you, Matt, from just following that seeing what you do. Um, you inject comedy to it, which you've already talked about levity. You see that in a Black Recle coffee brand. We were talking about here the other day in the office that one of the reasons we admire the brand Black Arcle Coffee over and above the product is that you guys are just who you are, and as you've grown, you've you've kept that maccab sensibility that you mentioned, You've kept that going. Um And most companies as they grow kind of have to get blander so more people can can connect to them. How have you guys approached that as you've kind of gotten big or over the time. Yeah, I think you know, at the end of the day, the company the two driving heads of this thing, and we have an absolutely phenomenal team, like I said, over two hundred employees. We have people that participate socially like crispy and help with other brand aspects. UM. But you know, Evan and I are leading the brand and and the brilliance of that is we don't like placate the corporate culture. At the end of the day, what we want the brand to look like, for better or for worse, We're gonna do it. And I am not a pushover. I'm not gonna let someone tell me to change. You can't say the F word anymore because you might you know, granted there's certain restrictions on social media, and you have to you know, pivot here and there to to market the company. But at the end of the day, what we want to do is what we're gonna do. I mean, that is the American spirit. That's what entrepreneurialism should be, UM and I And And that's why I think the company hasn't changed because we have such a good ecosystem and environment at the company. Who we hire, I would rather have a cultural fit that I have to train the job rather and then hiring a professional that's going to come in and just just erupted with bullshit microaggressions. Right. And so we're very selective in the cultural type that comes a part of the team because we don't consider it a team really, it's a family, um and And that's what We'll stay true to that until you know, I get you know, die in a plane crash or whatever. I'll take me with you and asked me something epic like that. After all you guys have done, UM, I I feel like, especially for you, Crispy, UM, we got to talk about social media. We'll probably not just talking shit about it, UM, But that's all right, that's that's okay, UM, can you just like, how do you handle social media? What do you read the comments? To you? Not what's the whole thing. I've heard millions of people talk about this, but I I want to hear what you want to say about it, Like, just let it loose, man. You know, I do read the comments. I do read the d M. I try to get his back people as I can, UM, just because I know I put out myself out there where, whether it be through tragic things that's happened to me or something positive or whatever the case is. I know I'm putting myself out there, and I'm making my personal life available to everybody else, and people are gonna have questions, people are gonna say their opinions, and you know, it comes to a point where I take all the positive things because there's more positive than negatives, UM, and and I use those if I'm able to give back, if I'm able to use my following to help others, or if one of my posts touches one person out of everybody that was contemplated suicide or just calling it quits, or whatever the case is, if it touches one person a day and it makes a better person, then I'm off for it and and I love reading the comments, celeb reading the DM sometimes like man, I've had I had cases where I had a gentleman who was out and I can't remember what part of the world it was, but he was with his wife taking are there the first honeymoon and they've been married for thirty years and was wave came in and pushed them into the water. She ended up drowning. And he told me that there was a point in his life where he was on a point there that he was just going to give up on his life and just say, funking, I'm done. And for some reason, Crispy the funk on was in his head and he kept saying it and saying that he was able to swim back and and and you know, they say they picked him up and they got a moot. Unfortunately his wife didn't make it. But he told me that my motto helped them, and he still to today says it, um And even though he's a pastor, he says that when you know he's by himself and UM. Things like that have touched me. Things that I've been able to do with with burn kids, UM have really really uh made me admire and love more on social media because there is a lot of negative things. I mean, there is d ms that I've opened up where you know, people have called me all kinds of because they probably don't agree with the things that I say. And it's okay because I can look at that comment and I can delete it and never see it ever again. But I can open up a positive one, so there's more positive than negative to it. And honestly, comments like that, I just they're weak to me. They don't mean anything like it goes. I read it and I forget about it. Um. But yeah, I try to interact as much as I can with people again because I put my life out there like that, and I want to be very open and you know, like Matt said earlier, I want to make an impact in this world and I want to make sure I can help change lives. And also only that's my goal with social media. Yeah, Matt, you read comments, Yeah, I I do. I don't go through all of them, you know, I think when I first started social media, I would scroll through a thousand comments and look for the one bad one over But you know, I think that you the way I look at social media, right, It's like it almost be like science in a sense of you know, I care about what my peers have to say. So you know, when you're when you're when you're doing a you know, a scientific article, you care what the doctors have to say because they're in that community and you as a collective are defining where that goes. And so I care about like what my guys downrange are doing and all of this. You know, I still talk to a lot of the upper echelontier units and I have friends there, and I'm like, how are we received over there? And They're like, you guys are doing amazing things for us. I'm like, okay, Roger that and then I'm not going to care when some fucking idiot comes on here. And I'm sure, just like both of you, I've been called every name in the book. I've gotten my my wife has been attacked. I mean, I've I it has been brutal over the years, But at the end of the day, it's very resemblant of what Crispy's outlook on it is. It's like you see the change that you have and you really will never care about a lot of these things. Like when I did my book signing, had people come up to me like, dude, had a pistol in my mouth. And I watched How to Be an Operation Or and I decided to get back in the gym rekindle my relationship with my wife. I'm like, how the that's stupid ass, poorly edited video made you do that? So you really never know the impact that you can have in people's lives, and and and it is an absorbed risk. Is any person that puts themselves out in social media, when you step on that stage, you're going to get criticized. And to to Crispy's point, I think that you can disagree with your you know, statements and opinions, but action is what truly matters. And you know, I'm sure Crispy and I disagree on some things in life, but I know he acts in an empathetic and loving way towards humans and towards his community, and that's what matters most to me. I see him put the work in and make change. And then if we disagree on some frivolous bullshit, who cares? I mean? And then it's obviously gets worse and worse from more political spectrum or opinion based spectrum that you go from from my general ideas and values in life, and but I don't care that it doesn't bother me one bit. Yeah, I mean I listen a lot of podcasts and every time I click on it's two celebrities talking to each other. I mean to you know what we would say, be your A list celebrities, this comes up. This is something that comes up because they're dealing with it. And and I and especially folks that have, like you know that a more creative endeavor at the heart of what they do. There's criticism that they know that's coming. When they're making that movie or making that music, they know that it's come. And what I think if everyone should rewind and listen to what both these gentlemen just said, because you know, when I write an article or create a podcast, I don't do it thinking about what the criticism might be from what from what I'm trying to create. I'm creating what's what I think is right and have you know, the willingness to put it out there and see what happens. Yeah, there's a really fun I love exercises, I love like challenging my psychology and a fun one I heard from a friend was go look at your favorite movie, pick your favorite movie of all time, and then go to IMDb and read the negative reviews. I love Saving Private Ryan. I think it's one of the best war films ever made of all time. You go in and read some of the one star comments are like, oh, people are just haters in this world. You know, like this from script to screen, how long it took and the revolutionizing camera angles and telling this brilliant American war story that you know, whatever, right, But like, there's always gonna be the one stars in life. But the good thing about that is the one stars who are using all their emotional output to fucking break you down, they're never going to be successful. They're gonna they're just gonna live in that swamp poll of negativity. And then I'll focus on the positive and keep pushing forward. All Right, we're gonna have We're gonna do that, Matt. Right now, Joe, we need your help, Therey buddy. You're gonna be our Jamie. I'm Joe Rogan and you're Jamie Kay. Get to google the uh Satan Private Ryan. We're gonna talk a little bit. We'll let you google Save with Private Ryan. And then you're gonna I'm gonna read some some shitty comments like Chrispy, what's your movie? Man? Oh man, that's like you might want to go movie that I watched a lot, man, Uh, probably Forrest Dump And I really every time I fly, I watched Lawless. Yeah, okay, did you look up Saving Round? Yeah, hurry up. Jamie would have had the ship up by now. Yeah, damn it, God, you can't find it. All right, we'll find me a negative comment that we can read, man, Jamie pro we would already been watching the video. Uh yeah, I mean there's eight thousand, seven hundred one stars. I'm Saving Private Round, So what that's a good one. I mean it's it's voted at eight point six rating. But yeah, uh, Forrest Gump. I was thinking Forrest Gump too, And you said that when you started saying that, Matt, that that's probably what I would pick, because every time I watched Forrest Gump, I just kind of at the end, I just cry a little bit. And yeah, maybe we're all just Tom Hank fr fans, you know the t at Don. When I found out that Tom Hanks got COVID, I was like, don't you dare take Tom Hanks, You son of a bitch. How it's real ish you You can take Rita Wilson, don't take Tom Hanks. This kidding, just kidding. Uh you found something at Joe What in the world I found something already? Uh? This is Forrest Gump. Yeah, that's Forrest Cump self ingratiating and for this viewer maddening. It blends the comic with the christ Lee, the satirical with the sentimental, the freethinking with the fuddy duddy eat one that's not Nigel Andrews from the Financial Times, Christie, you have any official comment about that review? Real quick? He sounds like a dude that one stars Yelp reviews and said, but there was a there was a paper towel in the bathroom floor and you fucking one started Yeah, yeah, he's ah god, you took the words round on my mouth, all right, Joe's goddess one. He's got one freaking say from an article and Wired called Free considering, save that Private Ryan. According to that According to that review, Savor Private Ryan was undermined by Spielberg's trademark strained seriousness. Corn and Schmoltz. The wildly Heild is a new sort of war movie. The Economist said, Saving Private Ryan is rooted in Hollywood tradition and making movies only from the viewpoint of the victors. Woof, they are they saying Nazi Germany should be better under a better lens than like getting Hitler some clout or something. Because I'm super confused in that sentiment. I've confused that they're saying, like we need it. We need to know what the Nazis were thinking there. Uh. Bruise your point, Matt. There's some confusing, weird reactions to just about every piece of art commentary ever put out. Um, we should read a good one about for because the Forrest compass. Uh. As long as you don't look up. Reviews in my movie were good, Okay? I did I give I Give your your your Quarantine song five stars, a glowing review. No, no, no no. He made a movie called Range fifteen. I don't think you've seen it. I'm gonna send you. I'm gonna send you a DVD. Benny, what's it called fifteen? Let's let's not let's not go down. If I wasn't a good home, if I was it was a bad host, I'd let you slide on this. That's fine, but you can I said, I have thick skins. You can read read a negative view. Okay, juicy ones in there. It's called I've never seen it so but but I'm gonna send you a copy. Um coming off. Are you in it? Matt? There you are? You're in it and the lead. It's a B B minus movie that you know, made veterans by veterans. It was made for a specific community, and it did its job, and I think it entertained a lot of people. But obviously when you start branching out from the humor we have, people are not very understanding of it as that's a long time ago. Never know. This is I'm just gonna play this at the feet of Crispy Joe's playing me the trailer right now. You got you Got It got audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. That's that's huge. That's probably better than the say Forrest Gump. Let not compare the people who was in this movie. Hey, it could have got a ninety percent, but I wasn't in it, So that's why I drowned. It was. You're completely right, this is something I wish I knew about before this. You got shot, You got Rudy in there. Mm hmm, William Shatner, well done. I don't see anything. I don't see any negative reviews, not one. Matt, what's that dude's name? The General, the black dude that light there. I love that dude. Um oh um uh what's his name? He's like one of my Yes, dude, I that dudes hilarious. I'm watching it. Joe Joe is playing. I feel like, get some you know, that's all right, We'll move on. We'll move on. I had at least had to at least pause there. I don't know where to go from there, but at least there. I probably looking forward into the future, Matt, Like, what's the You know, we've all talked about the president, how much it kind of sucks. Um. You guys have convinced me to to not wallow any iota. But what's what's in the future for you? Man? What are you looking forward to? Yeah? I don't necessarily know, man. I got some some big projects to like to challenge myself, and so you know, I'll probably direct another film myself, not that I didn't direct the last one, but I would love to direct the film. I'm working on a short film right now. That's Christie will will be in as well. Um, that's the preliminary shooting days are already in edit. So I don't know, man, I really just rally around Black Rifle Coffee and growing that enterprise and hopefully changing the cultural perspective of veterans across America and um giving them a place to walk into where we hang American flags and people don't get this disgusted. I mean if they do, they can they can cordially leave our place of business, you know. So really just focused on Black Rifle, becoming a better executive, and then really challenging my my creativeness in life, you know, through music and art and films. So I don't know what that exactly looks like, but it will be a very fun and uh we'rek intensive process, which I like. How how do you do you ever think about defining yourself? I know everybody tries to de find you based on what you do. Like, if somebody asked you like, what do you do? Who are you? Like? Is there a way you explain that? I usually just say entrepreneur because if I start going into the projects I've done, it confuses people and they usually don't believe me and that that sounded self infatuating. But like I wrote, and I run a business and they're like, they're like, Okay, this due's an idiot, but now it's an entrepreneur. Man And Um, I would like like artists. Maybe I don't know. I like to make people laugh, dude, it works the best dest in life. Dude, you've been making people laugh well before quarantine, well before uh all this crap are going through now and range fifteens in my mind. But Crispy, what do you got going on? Do? What? What's what are you looking forward to? Man? Um? You know, dude, I there's things that I've been wanting to do, and I think, uh, the next project for me is buy a ranch and and host people out there, not necessarily make it a nonprofit. I don't want to make a nonprofit that there's there's millions of nonprofits out there, but I want to provide a place where people can come out and hang out and bring their families. I think a lot of these um nonprofits that do hunting trips don't necessarily involve the family. And me, being an injured guy, I understand how how family is very important. What my family dropped every single thing going on that they had in their lives and um, and they came and took care of me, so they experienced everything that I went through. It was emotionally draining for them. You know. There was kids where you know, I saw my mom hurting and it bothered me a lot. And there's all these trips that these guys take and go all these cool things, but they don't bring their spouses, they don't bring their kids, they don't get them involved. And that's kind of what I want to do. I want to share more of the outdoors with not only the warrior, about their family members and be like, this is what we have going on here. If your wife or husband, daughter, son, what if don't want to hunt, Hey, we got horses you can ride. You don't want to ride horses, Let's go shoot some guns. Let's let's teach you how to operate and function that this this weapon. If they don't want to do that, and we have a plump or we can go catch bass or whatever we want to throw in there and just get them in tune with their loved ones again. That that's really what I want to do, and I want to do more stuff in the Burned community and just continue to do what I do. Man. That's that's honestly what my goals are. And and start a family. And in the midst of all that, little crispies, yeah, Crispi's man, drop them off Matt's house. The important question I was just gonna say, do I getna be Uncle Matt? Oh? For sure? Yeah? What an honor? What's the Uncle Matt? What's your strategy with with Crispi's uh not yet existing children, Like You're gonna spoil them? Like I'm a un man because I don't want kids, So I just I spoil them, you know, taking the river, I'll swim at the kids. In the second they like pooper cry, I give them back to the parents. That's that's that's okay. Well, you guys gotta you gotta come to Montana number one and we'll chase around some big elk um public lands um at the very least. So I gotta come down. I need to kill some killing access to here, dude. I'm out of access to your meat, and I had a hunt scheduled right during quarantine. I had to cancel it. So I down with you, me and Crispy. Well, we'll take your Access down and we got a lot out here. Again, we'd love to take you. I'd love to come. I'd love to come. Let me just say, you know, we'll we'll close on some other things, but I just want to say this both you guys. I know that you have, you know, big followings, and you've done a lot in your lives, but like to hear you talk about very difficult um issues, very polarizing things, and even things like social media in the way that you do. I know it sounds I can I talked to a lot of people um on this show, and I can tell you, guys live the ship that you're saying, and like, there's no there's not an inkling of doubt that what you're doing is the right thing for you. So I just want to say that comes through both of you. Thank you. Okay, uh, let's plan our hunt, Like when are we gonna do this thing? It's too hot down there right now, there's too many rattlers down there right now. Yeah, but right now it's perfect season. And come on, Access, it's the Russ the Red Side. Let's let's not forget that Access are exotics, so you know, we can use night vision if we wanted to dude, I got some I got some night vision. I can bring um high do They're the most delicious. Yeah, that's the one thing I missed about living in Texas. It's like that many things. Turkeys to man. Yeah, I move out closer to to to Benny and then he leaves. I was like, all right, Dode, I get it. I only did that so you had like a northern place to go. Man, I only did that so you had a place to hunt elk, although you can hunt are You can hunt just about anything in Texas if you're looking the oh for sure. So yeah, the access rut is go. I guess that's yeah, first week of June. Man, access rut is I'm going on Wednesday. Yeah, and depending on that, I think Crispy and I, um, I'd love to treat Crispy to it, but we're gonna go for stuff for it. Crispy to go up to record and shooting elk because I want the meat and we'll go Boha, let's go. I think August right is the rut. Yeah, yeah, Joe's telling me. Joe's tell me he wants to go. I don't know, man, you got a google, got a good you got a Google better to earn your time. See, I's just gonna getta motivate people around you're putting them down. We love you, Joe, We love um. Well, boys, I really appreciate it. Man. I won't take up any much more your time. Um, thanks for everything again, Thanks for just freaking being who you are and um talking to us, and I will hopefully know not hopefully I will see you in Texas for sure. Come on, if y'all need me a coffee up there, man, just grab my number from Crispy and I'll get you guys squared away. Man. Thanks for all you do. You guys put out some great content to keep up the good work. Really appreciate it. Yeah, man, means a lot you too, Crispy Man, I will I want to come down and see you, see all the boys at Archery Country. Um by miss Austin. Come on, I'm coming. Yeah. I wouldn't say I miss Austin, but we'll see you later. That's it. That's all. Another episode in the books. Thanks to Charles Rodney, thanks to Matt Best, thanks to Omar a Villa, Thanks to Phill the Engineer. Thanks to everybody that emails and listens to the show. This one kind of went everywhere, it didn't it. Phil, Yeah, it's it's a long one. But I think I think that I think that's good. I mean, I I love that you're just you're covering the gamut. Yeah. Yeah, Well, when we know when Charles gets in, he's gonna just go and I'm not gonna stop him ever, And nor what does I think do I think anybody wants me to? And so we knew, we knew we would get Charles in here, and we knew he would go and and give us a good perspective. Same thing I'm gonna tell you again, man, the same thing with Matt and Omar. If you listen to these people and you don't come out of this with a new perspective talking about not being a victim, talking about pushing forward, talking about doing positive things, talking about going out in the world and making a difference, you couldn't have put I didn't plan it this way. I didn't put plan to put Omar Um an immigrant from Mexico, Matt a white guy from Texas, and and Charles Rodney, a black guy from segregation this Louisiana in the same podcast and think that they would could be connecting their thoughts in some way. But if you listen back to this and you listen to these men, you will find that they're talking about essentially the same exact thing, and that's moving through the world in a positive way and watching that those waves wash over everyone around you. And so I'm inspired. I'm gonna go do more and be better. Um. I hope you can take that away as well. If not, we'll try again next week with Diana Rodgers and Rob Wolfe, who are working currently work in a book called Sacred cal at Is, talking about regenerative agriculture. We're talking about the way that we save the reputation of meat. That's a follow up on our last conversation with Nick Calo from Impossible and Robbie Sansom from Force of Nature. So hopefully you stick around for us episode one thirty coming at you next Tuesday. Say bye, Phil, because I can't go a week without doing Run Without Run Drank

Save this episode