00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler Jones and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening on my Woo's people today are actually at the time you hear this, we will be in the HeLa. So we wanted to just say what's up real quick and say that we had prerecorded this conversation with Aaron and uh, we wanted to get this out in a timely matter because we know the early season, that October period is coming up, and that can be a tricky time of year for a lot of guys to hunt, and also a very important time for a lot of guys to to uh kill a deer before they start going crazy in the rut and uh end up on a neighbor's property or something like that, Right, Casey, that's right. And uh, I know that if if you're anything like us, you want to maximize your season. And I hate the feeling of thinking that the first two or three weeks of October really there's no reason to be hunting, because I don't I think that the deer have to exist no matter what. It's not like they cease to exist until pre really gets here. So there's gotta be a way to get out there and kill him. And I think that's what Aaron's gonna kind of help us talk about. And I think, you know, I think the key thing to remember is that, you know, in this conversation, this guy hunts a lot of public so he has a lot of land that it doesn't matter if he burns up a spot, you know, But if you have a private land spot, then you know, you may not want to just bust your big deer out of there. So I think that that one thing that is maybe something you should get on the ball with if you haven't, is to have several spots so that you have a few different dear that you'd be happy with maybe, um And that way you can be hunting as much as possible. And then that's really what it boils down to for us a lot of times, you know, like we may have a private spot or something like that, but you know we want to hunt in October too, you know, because it's open, so let's go, you know, and in that case, if you've got a deer that you're not patterned on or whatever, then go to public. So anyway, uh, currently, if you're listening to this, we're in the HeLa and uh and we're I think we're after a three seventy, aren't well. I think we've talked ourselves into that. Yeah, guys, wish us look um right now, you know this is pre recorded. It's a couple of days before we leave, and I'm feeling very excited and pretty nervous. So, uh, wish us luck, pray for my nerves, Pray for our safety, and uh, if if it's in the if it's in the chips for us, Uh, I hope we get to leave with pretty heavy packs. Maybe by the time they're listening to this, we actually are packing. That would be cool. Yeah, we're we're going to be. I gotta feeling we're going to be packing some meat at this trip show. I like your feelings. Me too, man. I'm really excited about this trip, and I think we're both nervous because we know we don't have everything in order yet. But we've kind of been talking today a little bit, and I think we're gonna be all right. I think we're gonna uh give ourselves some time to get out there and maybe leave a little bit earlier than than we thought we were and and uh, hopefully we'll be good and relaxed and focused, like you want to be going into game time, you know. So I know how trips like this go. You know, I've gone to call out a whole bunch on hunting trips, and um, I've never felt the level of anxiety that I have right now, but I've felt this in in a certain way at least. And you feel like you don't have everything tied up or everything's done or whatever before you leave, or you're not completely prepared. But man, once you point that truck the direction of where you're headed, that all goes out the window because it's happening whether you like it or not. So you just gotta forget about the stuff that you may or may not be prepared for and just work with what you have. So really, I just cannot wait to be headed that direction. Yeah, me too, man for sure. And I'm just gonna employ as many tactics as I felt that I learned during the back Country episode. Man. So I'm glad that we got to talk to all those people this year because that's been a big help for me. And we've had several people reach out and wish us luck and that kind of thing, and that's been been a very encouraging thing to see. Um. And I guess the last thing I'll leave you guys with is just make sure that you go check out the Nebraska film which is out and UH be looking for a podcast that uh recaps the Healer trip, I think next week and we'll we'll do some discussing about that on the way home, and hopefully we are super excited to bring what is essentially gonna be a big Bowl breakdown to you man. So anyway, in the meantime, we're gonna get to Aaron. We'll catch you at the end of this episode and then we'll give you the recap next week. Alright, Today on the podcast, we've got Aaron war Britten from the Hunting Public. What's going on, dude, Hey, guys, not much hanging out in Missoury. We know the feeling. Man, It's actually been pretty nice weather here last couple of days. Uh. But when I say nice, that's like ninety you know, eighty nine something like that, So it's relative. It's relative, for sure. But uh, Um, I heard that I got a buddy that's in southern Missouri and he said one day recently he woke up it was like in the sixties. So that's pretty awesome. I don't know if you experienced any of that. Oh yeah, I mean that's I've I've been dealing with the same. Yeah. Well that's good. That's good. Cool man. Well, uh, we've been we've been kind of preparing for an early season deer and elk and that kind of thing. But we um, you know, I drew an Iowa tag, as we mentioned off earlier, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna definitely be focused on that, and I have been for the last couple of weeks, especially doing map scouting and that kind of thing, and so I really excited to talk to you. Um, and you know, part of my kind kind of part of my game plan right now is to is to try to get up there in October at some point. So um, you know, I definitely am interested in talking about pre rud and that kind of thing, and even just really just early season opener because I know that you guys seem to have, um had some pretty good hunts the last couple of years in that first week October, so um, with things kind of cooling down, that's uh, that kind of gets me, gets me in the mood, you know what I mean. So, oh yeah, at what point do you guys like what at what point you guys kind of start talking like preseason scouting and get serious with it and and uh, you know why, I guess why that? Why is it at a certain point, Oh, I mean worse scouting all year in some capacity. Um, I would say it just probably ramps up as we get closer and closer. But you know, we we obviously become a little bit less aggressive with our scout and this week as we're getting near the season, what we what we typically do is if you've watched senior of our videos, you see us diving into the expanding areas in the summertime, clear up in the you know, the beginning of September, and uh, worst scouting them, I mean bowling the whole thing out and a lot of times we're spooking big bucks out of there and everything because we're trying to gather as much intel about that area as we possibly can, you know, And that scouting, that's that type of scouting you know, occurs all year long, depending on the situation. But take for example, if it's an area that we're planning to hunt early season or or any time during the season before, you know, for example, we will we will put tone back on our scouting in that spot, you know, within a couple of weeks of season, and ideally we've already scouted it and we already know where the betting areas are, where you know, the trails intersect, where the exits are leaving the betting, and we've developed a plan to scout around the perimeter somehow to identify if there's bucks in. So I'm interested in, like, so if you guys, like prior to September, does it um like how serious do you take a betting area that you find or a big buck or a big buck or you know, a big buck bet or whatever that you might find, Like how serious do you take that? Because you know, and a lot of my experience at least, it seems like um that first of September when they kind of start shedding the velvet, it just they just disappear sometimes and and uh, I know for us, you know, we've we'll have deer on camera all summer long in a in a spot, and um, as soon as September kind of rolls around and gets going. I don't know if it's the oaks dropping or uh, you know, testosterone building or what. But it just seems like we we've had so many good encounters in the summer or seeing seen so many on camera, and then we just they don't I mean, I don't know we've seen like one dear that's translated from summertime trail camera or scouting into like a deer that we saw during the season. Uh, any time we see a mature buck, we're paying real close attention to it. It doesn't really matter if it's in March or if it's in July or if it's in December. Any time we see one, we are taking specific note of where he is, where he's likely getting, and what are you doing. So how often if you see one in midsummer, I mean, are you gonna do you feel pretty confident that deer is gonna be there in late October? You just never know. Late October by that time, they're they're really broke up and they're kind of in a rut, you know, pre rut stage where the bucks just get pretty spread out and they start bedding closer to dose and stuff, so they become harder to predict, you know. But on the same sense, in the same sense, you'll see them rut in the same areas year in and year out once they hit a certain age, So you know it it just kind of just depends on the individual deer, I think. But I would say that we've seen we've seen a fair number of them in the summer translate over and into either killing them or having encounters with them in the fall, and more often than not. And there's no there's no such thing as a sure thing. It's deer hunting, you know, all of me. It's also it's also situational. That take what I'm saying with the grain of salt. But a fair number of times we've seen bucks in the summer and then we've been able to find them and hunt them in the fall, and occasionally they are close to where we saw them in the summer, and occasionally they're not. You know, it's it's very specific to the terrain and what they you know, the food source and everything that they're using in the in the betting areas. Like I said, every area is slightly different. But a few years ago we were getting pictures of a group of mature bucks in the summer and we actually spooked them in the summer um off of this field when they were all in velvet, and uh there was I think there was five or six of them in total. And this was in July and August, and I went in there to pull the I left the camera along from August tent through the beginning of October, and we went in there on October five to pull the camera and we had pictures of them up until the end of August, and then there wasn't nothing on there the entire month of September. But we didn't just write that area off. I've just assumed that those bucks weren't betting in the same locations as they were during the summer. So that had essentially checked off that entire section of the property, and we just moved to the back section, which was only when I think about when I think about, it's only about five yards as the crow flies from that camp, so you're talking about a core mile shift or so. And we went back to that betting area and we saw every one of those same bucks we saw on something. All they had done was was shift about a quarter of a mile to a different betting area, and I had actually spooked him out of that same betting area that saw the man in the middle of the summer before too. So so do you think that is um y'all finding those bucks? Was it? Uh, guests and check or did you kind of have a good idea that that was the direction they were gonna head and hey, we've pre scouted this area back here, let's go see if they went to it. Well, that's why, that's why we always pretty scouting every betting area on the property and knowing how the whole property lays out. Because when we when we went in there and we pulled that camera and we've been getting these us consistently all summer and then all of a sudden a month straight, they're not there. We're automatically checking off the front two batting areas on the place. And there's probably six betting areas on this location of interest, so we're taking two of the six and we're crossing them off immediately. Because that trail cameras even though you're not getting pictures. See, that's the thing with trail cameras or with or with scouting, and honey, if you're not seeing them and you're not getting pictures of them, that doesn't necessarily mean that they ain't there, but you know that that does help you start to cross off areas to bounce around and determine where they're at. So in this instance, we crossed off two of those six betting areas and we went straight back to what we thought was the best one out of the out of the remaining four, and we just happened to find the one that they were all in, you know, and and we into that one and we saw them all in the first night. Um. It was it was the Buckness video back in the Midwest, Whitetail Day, uh, that we had on from that show, um, where we saw these bucks stand up in the betting area. Now, we hunted that multiple times throughout the course of the month, and as it got closer towards November, we were seeing fewer and fewer bucks in that bantn And that was probably a combination of things, and that was that was probably because we were hunting it too much. We're leaving too much sooner there. But I think it also has to do with the fact that they're getting closer to the rut and they're starting to spread out. But in early October they were still you know, pretty close to other bucks. You're you're looking, We're talking a lot about betting here. Um. You know this is a kind of a selfish question, but when you look at you know, if I was to look at Iowa online or even anywhere that has similar habitat, which like we here in northeast Texas we have kind of similar habitat, lots of creek bottoms, a lot less agg but our agriculture is more like dairy farms and uh coastal bermuda that kind of thing. So, um, but you know, similar habitat of guests, a little less elevation. And so how do you look at a property? Is there any way to look at the property from an aerial and assume betting? Um, especially like in a big timber situation where there's a lot of timber, Is there any way to assume where betting might be? And how are you doing that? Oh? Yeah, we do that often. Um. And it's a combination of things really. The main one though, is just fun the spots people don't go into very often. So when you look at the math, you're you're looking for parking lots, you're looking for access trails, leave into the area, things of that nature, and you're just pretty much crossing all those off. And then you're and then you're scouting the remainder, the remainder that's there, and and what we like to look for is some type of habitat diversity. So if it's a big block of timber, for instance, we're looking for a spot where like a hub maybe where multiple ridges converge um. And where ridges converge in the terrain drops off pretty steep, you're gonna have habitat change. It may go from it. For instance, it may be white oaks on the top of the ridge, it may go to red oaks on the side of the ridge, and then like maple trees down in the bottom. Well, there's there's habitat transition in there because of that elevation change. You've got different stuff growing on different levels, and then you've got all these ridges dumping down into a hub location. You know, that helps you decipher a situation in big timber for for example. But the main, the main thing that we're always looking at is there's the human traffic at on private or public land, Like it's even easier to figure out on private land, um, but like where's the human intrusion, where's the human scent? And then going to the areas where it is not present, however obscure they may be in some cases and basically looking for subtle habitat transitions in there where those deer can have multiple different habitat types at their disposal quote to that betting area. So they're betting on the transition lines like that, Yeah, they will often. Yeah. Yeah, So it's not it's not necessarily um, I guess. I guess the question that comes to mind is like if it is um on a ridge and in timber um and there's not a whole lot going down beneath the canopy as far as like stem count goes. I mean, are you seeing where that's just open timber and they're betting still and using ridges and that kind of thing, or is it? Or would they tend to gravitate towards transition lines with smaller trees and that kind of thing somewhere else? Yeah, explain that. Explain that to me one more time. Okay, So you're looking at so a lot of times, you know, if you have, say, like you spoke of earlier, the white oaks, if you have a bunch of white oaks kind of up around the top or something like that. A lot of times obviously during the summer that blocks out um a lot of lights, so there's not a lot of um why you know, deer level cover going on underneath that spy. So I mean, are you seeing in like a kind of mature timber like that. Are they still using ridges and stuff to bed on or are they using more? Are they going to be using like a higher stem count area or a transition somewhere else. Uh, they will use a higher stem count area, but don't necessarily discount all the rest of that stuff either. That's why we um, that's why you only do so much from a map. I mean, the map certainly helps, and we stare at him all the time. But for example, what if you're dealing with open timber like that, and you had a storm come through and knocked down to three oak areas on the point of one of those ridges, right, if that happens, then you're gonna have a high stemcount in there from where that light is getting to the ground. Or say one of those big old oaks on the points of one of those reasons died and falls over. Well, I've seen often times where they'll be half a dozen beds right up there underneath of that thing. When that that you know, region starts to grow back with that added sunlight, and that's that's habitat diversity as well as one of those big transition lines. You gotta think small and big at times, depending on the situation that you're dealing with, because they will gravitate two little points like that. If there's and that's all we could be, it could be that subtle of a habitat transition that could hold a really big buck in a betty area. That's why scouting that stuff in the off season really pays dividends when it comes time. Sure, wish I could get up there this summer, but I don't know if it's gonna happen, so I might be. Yeah, if you can't do it, then obviously, you know, running with maps is just fine as well. But but you're still doing the same sort of progression, or at least we are. I mean, and obviously holding one way is getting cats. So please don't to think that I'm trying to tell you this is the only way to do it, because there's a bunch different ways to go. But we're still we're still picking spots on map um betting areas that we that we believe bucks will be in and we're approaching in the same way. We're sliding in there, and once we get within a certain distance, you know, a few hundred yards of that baby area, we're going in the stealth mode and we're being super quiet, and we're looking for sign that tips us ins to about being in that betting area. You know, we're looking for trails that leave that direction, are looking at after trails to see if we got thick tracks coming in on out, looking for fresh rugs coming in and going out. Um scrapes enter around that betting area, and we get super aggressive sometimes and push around into the middle of it. Oftentimes, you know, to a fault, will go so far as to say we won't even start hunting until we spook a deer some time, like what we're getting into those betting areas, and and oftentimes we are intentionally trying to spook a bucker though or something along the edge of it, just to let us know that weren't close enough, and that that's definitely true if we're hunted area that we have not pre scouted, because we don't know exactly where the beds are and what you'll find. Often, especially earlier in the year, when the bucks are still fasted up. Is they'll be layered into a lot of these betting areas, the mature bucks will And that's that's not like I said, that isn't necessarily you know the case in every situation. But often if you have a real solid beating area that you're slipping into early in the season, you'll bump a satellite buck or or some does or something out of the edge of it, and uh, they'll run right through the betting area. They won't spook the big boy that's up in there. And if you if you bump them, then you know that you're getting close and set up that night at the buckness a few years ago. In that story I was telling you all earlier when we saw all those bucks at one night, we blew a group of six doughs right through the middle of all those bucks before we set up, and those dos were down there blowing for an hour while we were having to span i mean, running around this field causing a ruckus. An hour later, the bucks started just standing up out of the grass out there everywhere. They didn't even stand up when those doughs were out there, blond jolly. So what do you think it is about that time of year that keeps those bucks not really caring with those does other satellite bucks are doing. Whenever you're bumping them like that, I'm I think it's early enough in the years, and they just they get blowed to sleep somewhat. You know, they've been not They went months on and months on end without getting messed with. And we gotta remember, like these things are smart, but they ain't that smart like they do. They do some things for a reason, and uh and sometimes you know, it just amazes you know, what you can get away with with the mature buck. I don't see him doing that as often in like late season when when it's real crunch you out in the in the ground is wide open, and it's like after gun season. If if you bump deer through a mature Bucks betting area during late season, I've seen them get up and move, you know. I've seen him get up and take off with the group often, But like I said, that's not necessarily the case every time. Sometimes they'll just lay there and real tight like a rabbit and brush pile, wait for the danger to pass and then get out of there. But yeah, mature buck often won't move. You know, you've got a premier step on to get them to bust out of those betting areas because they're so comfortable in there. Yeah, I think like they've been laying there. They they're four or five years old or older, they've been laying in that betting area a good chance many many days of their life, and they've had all kinds of things run through there and walk through there. You know, they they live by their nose. So I'm assuming that y'all have been back to the buck Nest since that one awesome year. I remember watching that and it was absolutely crazy. Uh, but I haven't heard as much about it. I don't know if you just haven't hunted as hard or what, but it seems like, uh, the years since of been just a little bit different. Um. Is that something to do with pressure that changed in there, or is it about kind of the maybe the cycles of the oaks, or what's the deal with that both. I think it's it was the cycle the oaks and pressure in the next few years. After we wanted that, obviously we put it online and everybody in the dog saw it, and well, there was a lot of folks that went in there. The next two years and I think they nussed it up, but we went back in their last fall it got on buck. We actually had a mature buck stand right up out on one of those beds and come back to us and almost almost got shot at him, but he smelled us on a swart on wind at the last last moment um. You know, that's it's just one of those spots that's going to get a fair amount of pressure. But if there's so much strategy that goes into getting in there without poking those deer out of those beds, that if if somebody doesn't know exactly where the betting is and they're just hunting that general area, ye, what they're most likely just gonna do is educate the bucks they're betting there, and they're not gonna bet there anymore. And then you're gonna keep puntment and you're not gonna see anything, and you're eventually gonna give up puntment, and then when the pressure slacks back off again, the bucks move back in. So is there a like a theory or strategy just in general when you're talking about like that low marshal em bedding um to where you can know, hey, if the oaks are doing this. The deer aren't gonna be in there in early October. But if it's a year where they're doing this, you can bet on kind of across the board. You know, deer are gonna be down the creek bottoms. Yeah, certainly if you're gonna see trends like that appear overturned. You know where one year, maybe the red oaks are falling in a particular area, you know, much heavier than the white. Uh. Maybe you're getting down in that low line marshy river bottom stuff and you've got a lot of pin oaks dropping, you know, a black oaks or something like that near betting area, and they'll shift around to those at different times. Um. That's that's another one of those little things that you pick up on when you're in there scouting those betting areas. Like when we're we're scouting a betting area, there's so much information that we're trying to take in in that particular day. That is really when a lot of the thinking and strategy goes on. It's not as much during the hunting phase that thinks, uh, you know, unless we don't know the area and then we're trying to put things together and go. But if we've scouted that spot, we're going in there and we're scouting that we're looking for what the deer are browsing on in their bedding areas, because you'll see stuff that's nipped off by the deer. Once you find the beds um you're looking at what they can see out of the bed You're looking at how they get in and out of there, where the nearest water sources, where the oaks are at, where the crops are at. And then you're putting together everything and you you'd be surprised what you can figure out in just one day a scouting those batting areas, just super thorough, you know, and just clear in your mind of everything else, and just thinking about how the deer moved through there and how they use it during different times of the year, as the food sources change and as the bucks needs change from just feeding and laying around all day to the rut, and you'll begin to put together all these things. I mean, you you can see the rubs transitioning out of those betting areas. You can see a lot of times you can find rut beds along the edge of dolt betting areas. It may only get used for a couple of weeks out of the year, but often times they're marked up pretty heavy with rubs and the bucks will be set up to watch the those either exit or enter the betting area. Uh. And I don't know about you guys that they've ever been sitting a food source in the evening and late October, early November and you've had a bunch of does come out and then ride at last light a buck slide out on the trail right behind them. Yeah, it's pretty common scenario. Yeah, a lot of times that deer and I'm not saying this every time, remember that, you know, uh, a lot of times that buck is bedded back indep timber close to those doughs and he's watching them leave. You know, he's set up to monitor them as they as they exit or enter their betting area. And that's a good thing with those is that dose are super predictable sometimes. So if you can kind of start to understand how bucks bed and travel in and around those dope betting areas as the rug comes in, that really helps with your you know, you're set up some stuff. Yeah, So you were talking about rubs earlier, and I kind of like to protect your brain a little bit about that, because I kind of feel like there's about three different types of rubs that you encounter when you're in the woods, and I feel like there has to be some meaning behind that. You'll find these little whispy things where a deer just tore something up and there's no way to really know, you know, what size he was or anything like that. And then you'll have you know, a big deep rub that's fresh um that you can tell it was probably you know, kind of closer to that rut, or a deer that was really you know, getting out some testosterone on a tree. And then you have those you know I call perennial rubs where signpost rubs where they're just gonna come back, you know, year after year and rub on some of the same trees. Um, When you encounter those different things out in the woods, what is that telling you? Whenever you're talking about, you know, relating those two dough betting or buck betting and that sort of thing. Oh, they're they're saying a lot um a variety of different things. I mean, we'd have to really get in this specific situations in order for me to tell you, like exactly what I think a rub means, you know. But you mentioned signpost rubs, and I'll talk about those because I would say we'd pay closer attention to those more often than the others, because those are those are used perennially. Like you said, oftentimes we find those signpost rubs really close to a betting area that is consistent. It's a spot that bucks are betting or traveling between betting areas almost every fall, and that's why that thing is worked over every single year. There's there's a real good chance you find a signpost rug it's at a trail intersection as well, and there's probably a scrape pretty close to that. If there's not a scrape close to that, they could be just leaving sent on the signpost rug. But what we've seen after scouting a lot out of those areas, hunting them and then running cameras over signed post rubs, is that the bucks often approach them from different directions and they are usually located real close to the bedding, if not right in the center of the betting area. M hm. And and that's why they're getting worked year in and year out, you know. And then there's there's so much you can learn from rubs. There's also a lot that you can ignore when when you're cruising around scouting out there. It it really all matters that it's all about the betting and where they're living during the day. When Dan and Fault told me that several years ago, the light focus went off in my head and as well as some of the other guys in our crew. You know, it's like, man, you gotta hunt. You gotta hunt beer during the day because that's when you can legally kill. Like everybody's talking about these bucks being nocturnal on everything, and from what I've seen, it's just a bunch of you know, hocus pocus, Like they're not not no colonel, they just don't move very far in the day. Like there's a difference, Yeah, for sure. So what is some of the stuff that you can ignore when it comes to rubs. Oh, if I'm on the edge of like a big fating area or something, as it's getting close to the rug. Say, for instance, you pull up to a public parking lot and there's a great big agg fields right there. If you take out across that agg field, you're probably gonna start running into some deer tracks. Once you hit the edge of the field, you're gonna run into a few scrapes and maybe some rubs. I basically ignore those rubs because that buck is out there too, thirty in the morning feeding in that egg field when you're not there and he's making rubs. Then we might run a trail camera over one of those field edges just to see what's in the area. But we already know when we set it up there that there's a good chance it's gonna be all night time pictures, and we'll just relate those pictures back to the betting that we think they're using during the daylight. Right, So how are you you know? I mean, we were up there in seventeen maybe uh in March and just kind of like preparing that I might draw the tag in the next couple of years, and we were we did some scouting and obviously shed hunting that kind of thing, and um, you know, I I one thing I noticed is, and I've hunted Kansas the last thirteen or fourteen years, and the one thing I've noticed is that the sign there in Iowa was even better than anything I could imagine in Kansas pretty much. And so it was almost overwhelming at times, you know, I mean like you kind of just said, you'll you come off the road and it's just like there signed automatically right, there is just scrapes and rubs and all in just tracks and trails and everything and and and obviously that's not time stuff most of the time, uh, in most situations probably, but you know, even like deeper in the wood, it's there was just so much sign. How do you what are you kind of in that same vein like what are you ignoring in the woods when it comes to that, and how do you how are you setting up in an area that you think is is hot and has got a mature buck near it. That's a good question, um, because a lot of it over the counter states that we hunt with you know, fewer deer and fewer bucks, we actually have an easier time figuring it out faster, Yeah, because there's not as much sign, there's not as many bucks to deal with. I mean the Missouri for example last fall when I don't know if you guys watched the video Tat shooting that big deer not um, but that was that was one of those hunts where we could figure things out much quicker because we weren't dealing with as much sign and as many betting areas. But in Iowa you have such a high number of bucks that they're just marking it up everywhere. There's so many two more two year old bucks and Iowa then just about any other state that we've we've hunted for white tails and two and three year old bucks. Ley they kind of sign. That's what makes it, that's what makes it real confusing. I would I would go out on a limb to say that, you know, killing what you're buck and I was just as hard hard to do as it is anywhere else. However, killing a buck and Iola is easier, you know, because there's so many nice bucks running around. There's lots and lots of three old bucks. So with that said, the mature bucks are always going to have the best area. They're going to be insulated in there by a lot of those other deer, and wherever they're at is still going to be a place where there's stewer people. So, for example, if you get out and you scout around in Iowa, close to those parking lots, are close to those roadways, or wherever there's so wherever people are hunting, pretty frequently. You're still gonna find deer sign in there. You're gonna find scrapes, you're gonna find rubs, and if you set up in those areas during the rug, you may see piles the deer. But I'm at least I'm not seeing a lot of those hunters hunting those areas hardest immature bucks. They're shooting three year old bucks a lot of the time. You know, which is a great buck, and like, heck, I love shooting them two. I mean, I don't have no problem with that at all, But it's for the sake of the conversation. If you're talking about shooting a truly but you're old deer, they're not gonna put themselves in those spots. They're getting hunted. It's the same situation. So even though there's big sign there, it doesn't mean that he's gonna be there during the daylight there all those other bucks. Maybe, but he's probably not gonna be in there. He's if it's in the rug, and he's probably gonna be with the dough somewhere, lockdown in the location where he can see everything around me, see other bucks and see pressure. Or he's going to be tough back in one of those betting areas where he's super confident. Here there's no other people getting in there. I got you, so that that soft spot is definitely important. And and um, you know in the case that well, I guess speaking to what you're talking about. You know, it took me. For me, it took me several years to uh of putting in to draw the tag. So you know, especially you know early in the season, I'm looking for a pretty, you know, high caliber buck. I guess you'd say four four year old maybe even you know in better. So once you kind of find you want to kill one or the other, that's the time to do it in the early season, because I guess because there's more on a pattern. Yeah, I thought I've seen way more mature bucks in the Iowa and the first and October and then around like Thanksgiving than I have the first November through the Well, that's gotta be pressure related to right, Yeah it is. Um, you're gonna see more bucks in the first two weeks of the rut, no doubt about it. And you're gonna see some mature bucks, but they're very different. I just think they're hard to kill during that time because if you've got a truly mature buck that's the boss hog in the particular area that you're hunting. If you're killing during the rut, often they're like during November. Oftentimes he's gonna be with it though m hm. You know, sometimes you'll catch him going in between betting areas and that sort of thing. You can certainly do and I'm not saying that you can. I mean I've I've shot some of them in the middle of the rug doing that stuff. That's a great time, But I've just had better success in these hunting these bucks and betting areas. You know, the biggest oldest bucks in October, right right, Yeah, it makes sense. So you know, once once you locate you know, betting or or a soft spot essentially where there's not a hunter pressure and that kind of thing. Um. You know, I guess a question I'd have is, you know, there's still aliable to be a ton of sign um, say you find you know, you find the pinch or whatever that he may be going through. It's a hundred yards wide. How do you know which trail in that hundred yard pinch to set up on. I know that's a vague question, but maybe you have some inside. I'd looked at the tracks, and more often than not, the big old buck isn't gonna walk down the dirt path trail that's in the center that's got all the tracks on it. A lot of times when we're seeing big mature bucks were catching a big track entering and exiting the betting area on one trail, and that trail might have a couple of little rugs later down it, and it might not be very heavy at all. That's the that's the part that a lot of people struggle with, especially in Iowa where you got all this deer sign and and I'm telling you we struggle with it too. All the time. I've messed up over and over and over again by trying to set up on the heaviest sign possible. But you just if that's what you're after, is an old buck like that, you've got to keep telling yourself that you're you're wanting to set up to kill him and ignore the rest of the deer. And it's very hard to do when you get out there and you're you're trying to determine like, well, I I want to make sure to set up on this main trail. It's coming through here with all this deer sign on it. But if there's a trail off to the side that maybe, but I sex that thing somewhere that's got a couple of big rubs on it and then some big tracks, and I don't care if there's only ones that are tracts in it. If they're fresh, that's the trail that you want to be set up. Shoot, gotcha. And another good thing with hunting early is you don't have as much sign in the woods, so it's becomes easier to decipher, and whenever you run into it, you're gonna run into it, you know, a lot thicker because there's multiple bucks in those setting areas. Often, not to say that's the case every time, but before the first ten days October, they're just starting to break out of and and that's why I think that's another misconception too, is a lot of folks think in September, as soon as the velvet comes off, they all dispersed immediately and then it's over. It's a long process. Like when there's velvet starts falling off in early September, I mean, it's still a month and a half before the run even really starts to kick in you know, and those it's nothing that happens overnight. Those deer just slowly start to the spurs out as it gets closer to Halloween. But in early October there often those bucks are still betted pretty close to one another. So what you find is you'll scout a batting area, you'll scout the next betting area, you'll scout the next batting area. You don't have to stand on your back or something, and you won't see a ton of sign in early October, and then all of a sudden, you'll start hitting a bunch of rugs leaving a betting area. And that's what I'm looking for, is a bunch of bucks sign leaving one of those betting areas. And what we see very often then in early October is if we set up on that, we'll see a bunch of bucks. We'll see multiple bucks, because you know, they're just easier to find it now. In contrast, you go in there in early November, is there every other tree is gonna be rugged throughout all those betting areas because those bucks have been hitting all those betting areas at two in the morning and marking them up for the last three weeks. Whereas in early October there not really making those scrape circuits, if you will, yeah as much. Yeah, that makes sense. So a lot of this has been um kind of well, IWA centric, uh and Midwest centric is kind of you know, the broader scheme. But I feel like there might be a different approach to things if you're not you know, hunting near your hometown or in your home state or a place that you can drive to pretty often in scout and I know that you'll travel a ton and hunt you know, all over the East. Um, so when you're talking about going to a new place, and and maybe to kind of relate this towards like a long weekend kind of trip. So you've got three days and you're gonna drive back Sunday evening, Um, you know after your hunt or whatever. Um, do you still try to put boots on the ground and find those betting areas and and kind of take a whole day to do that, or you're gonna take a different approach on a shorter trip like that. Oh, it kind of depends on the terrain that we're doing. We'll take a different approach if it's, for example, if it's an open terrain and we have three days. If we can find the spot where we can observe multiple betting areas, we will sacrifice the hunt to observe and to see what the heck is going on. So if we can get up high, like out west and Nebraska and the Dakotas or even some spots you know in the Midwest, or even out east where you're observing crp grass fields or something like that, you can get up high and you can observe one of those fields or potential betting areas and get eyes on a buck leaving. Then you spend your arrest of the the rest of the weekend hunting that spot because you just founding. Uh. If it's in thicker terrain, then we'll just dive in and we'll just start bouncing from one to the next. And that's what we're doing. We're looking for order the betting, and we're looking for signing leaving them and we're not too worried if it's a short trip like that. We too worried about spooking deer. I mean, if we end up spooking them, so be, it will will either decide after we spooked them how bad we spooked him. If we can come back in their hunt the very next day, or if we can put together some kind of pattern on why they were there and they go try to duplicate that somewhere else. For example, last year we were we were in Kentucky and we only had five days, but by the third day of the trip, through several hunts and basically just scouting daylight the dark, scout hunting is what I would call it. We were hunting in the morning and spending the daytime scouting and just bouncing around everywhere, then hunting somewhere to even observing somewhere to even well. We noticed towards the end of that trip was that those bucks were still on the beans, especially being fields that were about waist high because it was early September, and they were favoring the west side of those beam fields button up against timber because that was the first place to get shaded out in the evening. And we actually noticed that a lot of those bucks were bedding right on the edge of those beans, on those shady sides. So once we figured that out, then we just looked for the west edge of one of those bean fields that was tough to get to where people weren't messing with and we immediately found bucks. It just took us several days to put that pattern together though, I mean we had three or four hunts that were bus you know that we just picked up a little bit here, a little bit there, and then towards the end of the trip we finally started to put together where they were at. But it just comes you just got to spend as much time as you can out there, because every single time you're picking up a little bit of details like that, and you talk about time, you know, uh, you hear a ton about October cold fronts, and I think that we kind of all understand that concept. It's not something you know, we got to spend a bunch of time on. You're gonna move on the feet whenever it feels good outside, kind of like us. But if you do have, you know, a tag like an ile tag is now out of state or anywhere that you're kind of um itching to go hunt, sometimes you have to schedule your hunt more than you can look at weather patterns. What do you do in like a warm front situation like that. So you've got three or four days and I mean your forecasting temperatures are ten and fifteen degrees higher than seasonal norms. You know, Uh, you can't just not hunt in that situation, sure, but you uh, you cannot hunt the same areas because the situation changes then. So if it's warm, I'm gonna be looking for a pond or a creek or something that is real close to betting or in the betting area itself, And that's what I'm gonna be sitting on. And I'm gonna be getting as close to those suckers as it possibly can because they ain't gonna move very far. All what in other things too that you can, you know, start to pick up on as you start finding more bed And I learned this from a friend of mine, Joe Eldinger. Um, he's actually from up in northern Iowa, but he found that mature bucks would bed in shade a lot more frequently when I got warm. I've even seen them go down in some of those creek beds in bed right up along the edge of the water when it's super warm, you know. And maybe it's only a sixty to eighty yard difference from versus where they would normally bed within a bedding area. But if it's warm like that, you've got to be super aggressive because they're not gonna move very far. They're just not um. They still are going to move. And I've seen them get up and do stuff when it was super warm out, you know, plenty of times. But that's what we're more so what we're before. We're still going right into the bedding area, but we'd rather set over a little time or something that's in there, or you know, like I said, a creek bed or whatever. If it's super hot in the middle of the day, for example, and they're bedding near a creek, you might kill that bucket one Thursday in the afternoon going to the creek to get a drink. That would be cool. You're just you're set up to hunt one well a lot of times that's how it works. If you shoot a big ancient buck, you're killing them in in very specific scenarios like that, where you're set up to you get into the edge of the betting area and you say, okay, it's it's dead, calm, it's super hot. I know he's in there. Because that's the amount of confidence you gotta have, you know, and in Fault talks about this all the time too. Confidence is a huge deal, and I don't. He's got more than anybody else. I hope that he regularly thinks that there is a monster bucking every single betting area that he goes to. And I still struggle with that. You know, I'm the only second guessing myself and whatnot because I always fund things. But that's a good lesson to take away. You gotta have you gotta believe that that thing is in there, and then as you're going in there to hunt it, and you're slipping in looking for a setup it's for example, and to hunt stagnant day like that, maybe you bring water Wicky and you sit there from Kenda four in the afternoon over the exit tromp that leads to that creek and you might not see a deer all day. But then again he may stand up and get hot in the middle of the day and go that creek to get water within his safe stone inside that betting area. That maybe what are you killing? That makes for a great video for sure. Well, I just if you have to sit there and not anything, But I mean, it makes sense if you're if you know, if it's what it takes to kill it. Do you think I think is a year or two ago I don't know. I remember a video y'all did where uh you jumped a buck? I think you're Missouri And it had junk all up at its horns and it's right on the creek. Is that what that buck was doing? You think? Yeah, it was super hot that day, and the very next day it was super hot, and we almost killed him. The next season, you know, and we see him bed right next to water often early in the season, then during the rut for that matter. Yeah, how often do you jump a buck in October? And I feel like or I guess have have another chance at him in that same area, Like, you know, how often are they gonna just run for you know, to the next county or you know, are they typically in that time of year just so locked into a betting area that there's a good chance they'll come back. It all depends in the nature which you spook them. Sure. Um, if you spook the hell out of them and they take off running and you see him run, run, run, and maybe they smelled you, maybe they saw it, Yeah, there's a good chance they may not be back there for a while. Yeah. At the same time, I've just bumped him out of those areas like that and they went right. They then right back in the bay, same that the next day. So it's I would intend to say, it depends on how hard you bump them. If you bump them real hard out of there and they take off like a bad out of hell and run, run, run, I probably am not going back to that same spot after that same buck. But if I bump them out of there, and it's obvious that you run the hundred yards stops and even start blowing, he's doing that because he can't figure out what the heck you are. A lot of times deer associate, you know, blowing and snorting with the deer just totally spooking from you know, there human presence. But what you'll find happen is they're blowing at you because they don't know what the hell you are. They didn't smell you, and they're trying to so that they can figure out what you are. And if you and if you just slide back out of there, many times you know they're probably they're eventually gonna walk in there down when and they're gonna try to pick up your scent and find out what you are. But many times they don't or they do and they just don't care and they go right back to the betting area. Mhm. Is that because that happened a bunce it's the safest place and they're like, hey, that was a one time intrusion. You know, it's still gonna be the safest place. Well, they get bumped out of there every one a while, buy kyos or whatever, you know, so it's it's not a huge deal, like you just do it once. That pressure is is all about, um, how shall put this pattern of pressure? So if you're going, it's going into one of those betting areas over and over again and predictable fashion, they're not going to bed there because they're gonna start picking up your scent and they're gonna realize that you're encroaching on their domain. They're gonna move. If you go in there one time and you bump them out of there, often they don't know what the hell just happened. They have no idea, you know, and they'll go right back to it because that's their place that they're confident in, and you've gotta be there ready to kill him the next time that they're in there. That's what we get with that bucking Missouri that you're talking about. We just didn't get quite close up to the bed, but he came out of the same attack bed the very next night. How quick can that happen? Like, I mean, you hear about the old bumping dump or whatever, and I don't know, I just feel like, Uh, I've never seen it work on heavily pressured public land, but I'm sure it can. Is there a specific scenario when you kind of think that could be a possibility. Oh for sure. Um, if you go into those spots and you basically surprised jump a buck out of a betting area, you could kill him that very day. I mean, I've seen them do that. I've bumped them out of those betting areas before, and seeing the same buck two hours later trying to come in there and circle down land of the spot that you bumped him out of there. A lot of times, they don't know what the heck you are when you spook them. You're you're walking up on a bedded deer and you startle the crap out of them and they take off out of there. You know, it'd be like you walking through your house in the middle of the night and then something falling over somewhere and scare the crap out and you run out on the front. Poor You don't know what the heck happened. You got to go back in the house and turn on all the light. Same difference, Yeah, it's the same difference. You know, Well, the dog might have got in the trash or something, or maybe you got a burglar in there. You don't know, but it was enough to startle. You had to get the heck out of there and get your wits about you, and then you go back in and figure out what's going on. Buck's doing the same thing unless you unless he visually sees you in there. Um, and even when they do that, they still can't quite figure out what the heck you are. If he spells your your trouble a lot of times, because that's why they've really painting stuff. Yeah, it's all the it's all situational, man, it just did. Every single time, you're gonna be faced with something slightly different, and you can draw on all your experiences a lesson there that you can sort of tie in and help you down the road. But it's it's all about reading that specific situation that day, at that moment. Mm hmm. And that's what that's what gets those only ones killed is somebody that as a hunter that is super adaptable, that can that can set up for a variety of different situations like that. Well, I feel like you have done a pretty good job in October through the years, um, you know, with the buck ness stuff, and I feel like you killed a a real big deer in October a couple of years back, might have been closer to Halloween or something like that. Um, what do you think is your most memorable October hunt? It's probably that buck Nas deal um that one. And then I still Zack Farren ball killer buck on October fourte um on a piece of public ground the year before the buck Nas deal uh. In that same night that he shot that buck, our buddy Lukenisen and Michael Perinni were right down the road on privately and then they kill the buck that same night, so literally that Luke shot his buck and texted us and as our phones were buzzing, Zack's bow was drawn on this dear. And when we got both bucks killed on video, they were on Midwest White on Chase November years ago. So those are those are pretty cool hunts. And we've had a number of other really close calls in October and great encounters, you know, as well as a handful of of you know, kills as well, but that buck Ness hunt was that buck Nests hunt was probably the most memorable one when we saw all those bucks standing up in there because at that point we had we had just started having in the buck betting stuff we had. We've been messing with it for a little while and we've seen some mixed results so far. We were still kind of unsure about it, but we fully trusted it on that hunt and went straight in there. And at this point in our you know, in our hunting careers, I don't even like to stay in that because hunting isn't a career, um at this point in our in Honey, Zach and I are, you know, in our twenties, and we have some experience, but most of our experience through from experts has just been bucks are nocturnal in October and they're extremely hard to kill. M hm. Well, that particular night and in fall kept saying, you know, in our Buddy Gregg listening here over the years saying like, no, I mean, you just got to find out where they lived during the day and then Hunter, you know in the betting areas, and when we filmed all those bucks. I think we filmed fifteen bucks that night and five or six of more mature bucks in the one betting there on October the sixth, um might have been in the seventh. It was the sixth of the seventh. We filmed all those things in that buck mess that night. It was just like, Holy cow, this is these guys are right. Like literally everything everything that they told us that would happen just happened in front of our eyes. And that debunked a lot of you know, quote unquote honey myths in our minds at that point. And once we got once we got outside of that you know, false comfort zone, we really started having success. Yeah. So what's uh, what's your most exciting hunt that you're gonna take on this year? What are you most excited about? Well, we're gonna try to go hunt Elk early September. Yeah. Um, we're gonna go to Michigan for the I'm car o yah. Who is that going or who's going with you? I don't know if it will be me and Ted or Zach and Ted, but we're gonna go out there. Home with the born and raised outdoornge guys we had, and then we're gonna get the public sing challenge up in our Michigan. Cool. Good on public You won't be alone? Yeah, yeah, you should be fun. Yeah yeah. Mark says, there's no dear to kill him? Is you? And like that? The they all get shot. So I don't know if you wanna find any up there or not that I don't know. I'm sure there's dear to be killed. Yeah, I'm sure there is too. Yeah, they're dear to be killing. There may not be a hydron five year old bucket shot, but we don't care. And if there's there's deer around, we're gonna try and find them figure around. Yeah for sure. How do you manage your expectations on out of state hunt like that? I mean, I'm kind of with you. I just like to kind of shoot stuff. And the more and more I can travel, the more I realize, Man, that wasn't a lot of fun if I go and travel and don't actually get shoot something, you know, So yeah, how do you kind of manage that? Um man? Anymore? We we get a bigger kick out of just going to these areas and learning them and figure and trying to figure them out. You're bow hunting in a lot of these situations, and the fact of the matter is there's a lot there's a lot of things that gotta go right in order for you to kill them mature back. For about the the hard part to me is just putting yourself in that situation over and over again. So that's our goal. It's just put ourselves in a situation where we can shoot a a nice dear for that area. That makes us happy, you know, And if we do that, at the end of the day, we're usually you know, knock on wood. We've we've had success doing that and and they weren'ture, but that we end up hitting it, maybe a two or three year old buck, but we're there for a short period of time. It's just not feasible to expect to shoot it, you know, an ancient old buck on a four or five day hunt in an area that you've never been. I mean, you can certain on what we're trying to do that obviously, but it's just not something that's gonna happen every time, did you go? So we're hunting for those deer, but it's it's a smaller buck or whatever, come and find and present a good opportunity. We're going to take that within the heartbeat to be pretty thickled about it. Sure, man, I understand that. Acent well. I I appreciate your time Eron, and I hope you guys have a lot of luck this year. You're probably gonna need it in Michigan, and uh, if it's OTC in Colorado, you might need a little bit there. But man, uh, I'm sure you guys will do some great things this year, and and uh hope the best of luck for you. Many appreciate it, no problem, man. So what's uh, what's the best way to find out what you guys are doing? I mean, can you just search deer on Google and y'all pop up? Or how does that work? No? Now, um, you can just search the Hunting Public and we'll pop up. We're on YouTube and Amazon and Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, and then we've also got the Hunting Public podcast on brodcast platforms. Cool man. Well, we will link to all that in the show notes, so if you're listening, feel free to go down there and click that. Aaron, I appreciate it again, man, We'll talk to you sa Okay, guys, sounds good, all right, see you. Well. I appreciate Aaron coming on and talking to us for a little bit. Uh. It's always good to see guys that have had some October success give us a little advice, so hopefully we can employ some of that. And we've got another guy coming up here soon as well that a lot of people are gonna know. And and uh, Many's full of information. He was just spitballing, dude, wasn't he. Dude. One of the coolest new big Buck names or words I've heard will be used and explained in this podcast and coming up. I don't even know if I can remember it. It's just so weird. It's a little bit like Mada Gascar, but different pretty much. Okay, well, guys, I gotta say this because this is the last chance that you guys have. UM on the way back from the Healer, we're choosing a winner for the Vortex binoculars and for uh if we get to three hundred reviews, we're gonna choose a winner for uh the Exodus Trek Trail camera that we're giving away as well. UM, and then also swag which I've got a shirt here that I'm sending to a guy who ordered one, so thanks guy. Um, which his guy his name is not Guy, which there are people that have the name guys there would wouldn't anyway, UM, go give us a review now, and I'll tell you this. A lot of times Apple has to review the review to make sure that you didn't say something that you shouldn't be, that people don't need to be seen or whatever. I guess, So make sure you do it right now. Go go give us a review and that way, Uh, in the next few days, it'll show up on our on our end, and we'll be able to have you in the running for the binoculars, the camera, and the swag. Yeah, we are currently using v TAR out of He can promise you that that's right off. And I used it in Nebraska so much I thought that I was like, I'm gonna use all of my data or something, you know. It was just I was on it non stop. So oh, it's a It's a cool thing to use, and I think you guys would would like it. Whoever gets the chance to win this thing if you don't have it, So thank you for all the of you so far, and remember this is your element living it

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