00:00:00 Speaker 1: All right, what's people? The season is going to be here faster than you can imagine. I know you've all been out there dialing in your archery equipment. Actually, there's a real world out there, and if you're anything like me and my friends, you've been taking your time getting your bowl ready. We'd never advocate for you being irresponsible, but we understand it's pretty easy to end up really busy this time of year. I've been busy building browning points. It work well. We decided to call up some of the experts to get some of their ideas on some of the things that might help you be more successful this season. That's a good thing because my ten yard pen needs a little work. Doesn't work out there? All right? On the show today, we've got Clint Warner, he's the general manager of sever Clint, what's happening, dude? Hey? How much of right now? Good? We are trying to get rolling that way. Tyler actually is heading to hunt right now. And uh, we've got an elk hunt coming up pretty soon this month. But it's it's that time of year, man. I know, it's probably crazy being in the business as well this time of year. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Products are rolling in and out. Um, So you're one of the few guys that actually has already killed an elk and it's barely even into September. How did that happen? Well? Um, Actually, a friend of mine had drawn a practically a once in a lifetime deer tag for him. It's the Ponsgon deer tag in Utah, and he's down there hunting deer, and I promised him I'd help him. I'd help him. So I was actually headed down to hunt with him and have somebodies along the way. Um in a in a spike unit that I just said I'd stop off for a day or two and hunt spikes. Um. And not thirty minutes into that. I mean I'd set up my tent trailer at like four and by five thirty we had glassed up a couple and by six thirty my hunt was done. So it happened pretty easy. But the cool thing for me that was my first archery out ever. So I'd killed him with a rifle before and this is the first one. I'd take him with a bow. So cool accomplishment for me, and it tastes good, by the way, Oh man, I know. Um. We had a little mix up with with time's you know, getting this thing going earlier, and uh probably was my fault. But either way, if you just want to repay me for the mix up with the tenderloin or something in the mail, I wouldn't turn it down. Those are probably long gone already though. So uh but that's cool, man. Is that one of those units where um, it's trophy limited entry and then there's you know, guys can go in there and spot hunt too, so like Jiant bowls of stuff. Yeah, you know it's been it's been fifteen or twenty years ago, but Utah made a conscious choice to manage their elk herd for trophy. And I mean when I was a kid, Utah didn't have much of an elk hered at all. It was all dear and yeah, now we probably have one of the best trophy o herds in the in the country. So, um, that's because of the way they manage it. So most of the units that have trophy both on them, anyone in the general public can hunt over the counter buying over the counter tag and kill a spike or a cow bol on those units with the bow, and um, so that's a pretty cool thing. What a lot of guys will do is you know, they're putting in every year, getting points, hoping for that big bull tag someday. But they'll learn that unit for you know the whole the whole time hunting cows and spikes. So it's a good way to do it, and it's a lot of it's a lot of fun, a lot of opportunity on those units too. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome, man. So how did the Mulier still going? So that goes till the middle of September, um, September three, type we next Friday. I mean he's he's got his heart set on you know, one or two deer and he's hunting those specific bucks and they're they're just giants, I mean just justin credible deer. So you know he's hunting hard. I mean he hasn't he hasn't killed yet, but we've had some good run ins with him and he's got a lot of good help down there. You know, I'm done with what I'm doing, but I spent probably ten days down there, and the ponts Agon is an incredible unit as well. I mean that was just to go and be a part of that. Yeah, to be able to see. I mean you're seeing more bucks than those you know, we we joked, you know, I joke around what's their dough to buck ratio? Because it's what flop to what you'd normally what you normally expect to see. But it's a it's incredible down there. Yeah, that's cool. I mean from what I understand, and I'm not a mule to your guy, But next to the Arizona Strip, the Poncegons the other thing you hear about with with John, Yeah, Portgonum, the Henry Mountains, maybe the Kaiap, but you know, the Ponsegon special because it's a it's a flat plateau for the most part, and the deer migrate completely off the plateau every year and and moved south down into North Arizona and in the desert. So it's a pretty unique situation. And that you're hunting um deer that don't spend their whole year in this in a lot of these areas, so it's a it's a pretty neat story to learn about that. But then just to be there, um and and to see to see all the deer, it's just it's crazy. I mean, I'm not joking, you know when I say at one six mule deer. It's just another deer down there, and you don't it's like, oh what do you see to it? Sussin deer? You know, I mean it wasn't that's that's the typical deer you see on the pods gun is that one eight inch class buck and you know we're we're looking for the we I mean, he he'd like to get that two dear and he's got us his eye on a couple. But yeah, the whole units just full of just awesome bucks. Is that an age structured thing or is it more because it's just the highest quality advocat So you have deer with John alers there, well, I think I I think there's there's a little of both, you know, but I mean I think of genetics are just really good, um and they don't allow a ton of people to kill on there every year. You know. It's with all the tags you might be looking at fifty tags total, I can hunt a unit that's bigger than the state of Vermont, you know. So it's it's a pretty big area. But it's um, you know, it's it just isn't pressured. I think that's probably the biggest thing but I mean for a deer, too formal deer to get to you know, it's going to be at least three and a half. Um, the guys in the West, you know, you don't get a hunt this every year, so you're not going, oh, I'm gonna let him grow and shoot him next year. You don't have that luxury. So I think most guys were not age classic bucks and going let him grow. An outfit ter might do that, but you know, if I have that tag and I see a deer, I'm going to shoot it. It's just my I think most people that's kind of how they approach it too. But it grows big deer. I think in part that, you know, the management is incredible. The state does a really good job of managing habitat, but also just you know, managing with the landowners around the area and managing the deer heard and listening, cheers input and biologists input, and it just gets manned as well. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Man. It sounds like one of the few places that it's not the whole story of Man, you should have been here twenty years ago, you know, it seems like so many people that's just the cool thing to say, like, man, it's not as good as you used to be, right, But it sounds like y'all are having your heyday in Utah and that's that's awesome. So certainly in some areas, you know, in some areas, i'd say the Pomps of got it's as good as it's ever been. Um, the Henry Mountains made a comeback, and they've they've done a good job, you know, returning the quality of the herd on that on that unit. But and so much of the state elk have really taken over and in most units you don't find trophy mule their bucks when you have tropio in those units, and at least in Utah. So what you know, I think we we've made a decision as a state that we did help was going to be our thing, and a lot of the deer units kind of went downhill because of that. But this is one of the few units that they've done a good job of keeping the elk outa in large numbers and because of the deer thriving. So yeah, we actually knew a guy, uh well you know, just kind of friends with the guy who had a Posigon elk TEG last year and he had a pretty tough time, so I can see. Uh, that makes sense, you know, if they're they're keeping the numbers low on the elks so they can manage the mule do your well, that's cool. That's a kind of the opposite of your neighbors to meet. They're up in Colorado a kind of had a hard time managing mule deer for quite a while because because what makes money. So that's where I planted. Most of my life is is Western Colorado. So if not too far from some of the stuff you're talking about there. But anyway, how did you end up in Utah? Are you from there? Originally? I'm born and raised Ye, born and raised in Utah, born and raised there, and my well, my great great great grandpa helped settle the central Utah So not cool. Man's kind of in my blood and my whole life. Yeah. But so I've got a wall for old big Mulier from the bank from through the years. Huh. Not me. It's still wait to become my big ones. So but it's in the I mean, it runs in the family. I mean we for my dad and my grandpa and a great grandpa. I mean, that's that's all we've done. So yeah, yeah, that's cool man, sounds like fun. So how did you get into, uh, you know the process of producing a broadhead being from Utah? Well, I worked for Eastern Archery Um. Okay, that's who I've worked for in the Eastern, you know, owned sever But when I had the idea to do a broadhead and came up with the SEVER brand, Um, I have a design of a broadhead in mind that I wanted that I felt like it had a lot of untapped potential and that goes back to the original Olmer Edge broadhead. So Randy and Rusty Olmer Um worked together to create a broad head UM called the Old that was called the Older Edge that they sold down the market for a few years and um, and then it's been off the market, you know, prior to sever for five six years. It wasn't even on the market. But the people that were familiar with that head there had a loyal following and a lot of people had hoped that it would come back some day. And so that was the bright head that I had in mind, and I just felt like if we, you know, we could improve upon that existing design and then just with a business model that was you know, innovative and disruptive that we could be successful. And so that's how we did this sever. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome and and uh, you know, it's just seems that that direct to consumer market is such a cool and neat thing that just even ten years ago wouldn't been possible because you know, the Internet has just come so far since then. But it's it's something that's really great for both parties. You know. Nowadays it's you can produce a higher quality product that a lesser expense because you don't have the middle man. So what is it about, um? You know, a sever I would consider it be to be a premium expandable right and can you kind of go into lack the process of what makes it, you know, fall into that qualification? Sure? So I our ferrels are a one piece, one piece ferrel, and I not when I say that, I'm referring to two models in particular, the original sever two point one, the titanium two point one, and now are new t I one point five, which is a one point five inch titanium head. Both of those have a one piece titanium ferrel. And so it's the titanium that I would say, elevates it to that premium category. That and and then it's got unique patented um functionality to it. And if you look at all high end broadheads, that's typically what they have in common. You know, if you they either made with an exotic material and they also have a unique way they function that's patented and unique to their brand, and that's what sets them apart, you know. And then you've got that here below that. Everybody's you know a lot of ME two stuff or you know, unpatented stuff that you see that or cheaper materials, but in the high end, that's typically what separates the brands. Yeah, I like meat too. Stuff that's that's that's a cool word. So, um, what is it about titanium in you know, a high end broadhead that makes it better than maybe like a high end steel or something like that. So the the challenge you have when you're designing broadhead is people have a certain expectation of how much it needs to weigh. And you know, guy said, well, I'm a hunter grain and then the hunter grain broadhead is the most popular weight on the market. So because we have that weight, bogie, we have to hit, we have to use materials that allows us to do that. So with the separate design, you know, it's unique in that the blades are hidden in the ferrel in flight and that's good for accuracy. It makes the head extremely accurate. But it also requires that our ferrell be um long and to hold the entire length of blade in it, and that adds and that's a challenge for me is a broadhead designer. When we design those things, is that, Um, we have to find a material that's light enough but yet still strong in order for us to make our design work and to make the weight that our customers want. And so so the titanium is the lightest, strongest material that's available, UM, And so the strength to weight ratio is highest on titanium for any other material. Yeah, Um, titanium being a pretty strong material. Is there any issues with you know, being brittle or anything like that? You know, I know, and like whenever you start hardening steals, no harder the steel usually the more brittle it becomes. Is it is it the same with titanium. If the engineering is done correctly, then um, those nuances of the material don't become a problem. And so that's stuff that we get into when we develop the product, you know, as we have to look at the mechanical properties of the material and then design it in a way that um those don't become an issue. So titanium does have UM it doesn't it doesn't want to band for example, right, so it has a relatively small window between its yield strength, which is the point that it bands and when it would break. And so we need to make sure that we don't design it in a way where it's gonna that's gonna become a problem. But the good thing is what where that's really nice. What's nice about titanium for broadhead design is because it's not as likely to band as aluminum or you know, or other materials. Most people using it can switch out their blades multiple times and reuse the same hand over and over again. And so that's that's the benefit there. As a raw material, it's five times the cost of aluminum steel, so it's super expensive and you know, I it's nice to be able to be able to reuse that. You know that Farrell as much as you can. You know, obviously we it's an expensive material and because of our our direct to consumer bottle, it ends up not costing our customers a ton, but it's still a lot more expensive than other materials. So the big advantages you can reuse the in most instances, you can reuse the ferrels and switch out blades and whatnot. Yeah, that's cool. So let's talk about the blades a little bit. Um. That's always kind of been, in my opinion, the downfall of mechanical broadheads is the fact that a lot of times they'll come in the package not actually that shark, all things considered, and then they will also be fairly weak, you know, I mean some of the especially some of the larger mechanicals I've shot in the past. Uh, you know, you get to pass through one of those things and it's it, it's a rib. That's uh, it's probably gonna get pretty bent up. And they're definitely, you know, not reusable, and they're gonna have a good bit of you know, edge where even through the first rib. So um, I've noticed in each sent as a few of these to kind of mess around and check out, and they're they're pretty sweet. Um, and the blades seem a lot stronger than your standard expandable? Is that the case? And what makes them different? So what makes I mean really what the raw materials that we're using in in our blades that I would say most disposable blade broad heads are going to be very similar, you know, I mean a similar type material. But what what makes ours different really is how how the blade functions and then how the overall design of the head manages the stress. Because one thing unique with Severs, it's the only locking pivoting broadhead on the market. And what that means is that when the head deploys, the blades open up and they lock open, but then the head can pivot in that locked position. So that does a couple of things. It allows a head to not deflect, of course when it hits bones, and we talk about that a lot um in our marketing and stuff, and that's what a lot of people have come to know us by. But the other thing that that does is it helps manage the stress. You can imagine, you know, what this thing is going through when it hits an animal and hits bone and encounters bone. With a traditional broadhead design, those blades will open and they locked back, but they don't move. They once they're locked, they're locked and they can't do anything except you know, um, they push through the animal. But if they encounter resistance, the only thing they can do is deflect out of the way, or they're gonna bend or they're going to break. That's it. So what are what are head does really well as manage the stress. You know, blade break has has been a problem with you know, with every brand Um, every other brand of a mechanical broadhead, because you've got so much blade sticking out, you know, blade break is going to be an issue if you push the head eventually. And what I find with the severed design is being that it pivots. It manages the stress really really well, and so blade break is frankly, it hasn't been a problem. I haven't had one UM reported blade break at all in a hunting situation with this sever head. Yeah, and I attributed that to that for sure. Can you explain the pivoting thing a little bit in greater detail, like how that works? Andy? Sure? So pivoting broadheads aren't new, um goes. The earliest one I can remember was the Rocky Mountain Gator. It came out in the late nineties and it was actually the first head I used to kill my first gear. UM cool design. It's a rear deploy head, and um, the blades open from the back and they pivot open and they give you the big entry hole that you would expect, you know, with a rear deploy head. It was maybe it was even a predecessor to the rage head actually the gator. But um, the the problem that that design had was that the blades wouldn't lock open, so resist since pushes them open, but if they encounter any bone along the way, they'll close back up and they kind of sort of they flutter as they kind of go through the animal. And so your wound channel um can go down to the smallest seven eighths of an inch or as big as the full cut, just depending on how it encounters forces through the through the animal. And what makes the sever design better is that it, you know, like that pivot and style design, it opens from the rear, which is what gives you the big entry hole. But once it opens, it locks open and it maintains that full you know cut diameter through the entire channel of the animal. So if you do encounter a bone, for example, the blade will pivot out of the way, but the because it's locked together, when one side of the blade hits bone. The opposite side of the blade stays open and pivots around the bone, and so you maintain that full cutting diameter all the way through the inside of the animal, which is really you know, the business side as it were, that a big hole cell broadheads. And you see pictures of the big hole on the entry and that's fine and good, But what happens when the head goes inside the animal. That's what's actually doing the cutting and the killing and whatnot. So having the locking blade it's a big deal because it maintains the cut all the way through. Yeah, Yeah, that's that's cool, and that's kind of been I don't know, it's something whenever you get the thing out of the package and you deploy it, it's you know, you can just see how it works. It's really neat um souh along that that blade talk um. The blades lock into place. But um, there's something you know in laws where you can't have a barbed broadhead, right, how do how do you kind of circumvent that situation? Yeah, So part of our patent addresses that and and what it allows is as the blades so they lock open. But when the way that now this is a little tricky too, because the way that every state defines UM their broadhead laws may make a different maybe okay and one state, but maybe the problem in another, depending on how they write their laws. UM. But if they just to simplify things, let's say the state says barbed broadheads aren't allowed, and they leave with that. UM. Typically what that means is that, UM that the angle of the blade when you're looking at the ferrell is less than ninety degrees, that would comprise a barbed broadhead. So if you're looking at the ferrel being zero degrees, and if if the blade were sticking straight out from the ferrel, that would be nine degrees. So if it's less than ninety degrees, which our head is in a locked position, it would be considered barbed. Another had a good example a ram cat for example, UM that that shape of the blade is less than ninety degrees, so that would be considered barbed. UM. But because our blades pivot forward, so if you were to try to remove the broad head, UM, if you were stuck in an animal, those blades would pivot all the way to the front. And because that angle is now greater than ninety degrees, UM, it's no longer considered barbed and that's how we get around that issue. Cool, well, Tyler, you got a question. I do, man, I've got I've got a question and follow up to the answer as well. And uh Clinton, what what head did you shoot your elk with? I shot my elk with. It's our that's our new head this year. It's called the A P one point seven and that AP stands for all purpose um. That's the only head we have in our lineup that's not a titanium pharao, so that that's a little different beast, but that's the one I used. What what's the reason? I guess this isn't my my intended follow up, But what's the reason it's not a titanium? Yeah, so what I had in mind? So originally the titanium it was the two point one is what we launched the brand with last year, and we wanted to go after the deer market. So the two point one inch um design is a good head for deer, and what we also what we wanted to do with the new one this year was to go after the people who want penetration. So we've launched the one point five. So then we had two models. We had our maximum cut two point one broadhead, and then we've got the one point five, which is our max penetration broadhead. Now, the difference between those is the cut diameter is smaller, of course, but the blade angle on the one point five is more swept back, so you're going to get more penetration inherent with that and in combination because of the cut diameter. So then the one point seven we call the all purpose. It's a it's an in between um cut, but then it's also an in between blade angle. And the reason for that is a couple of things. Um we felt like there's a lot of people, mostly in the South and in the East, that hire I mean they're hunting hogs and they're killing in Alabama, i mean they're killing a deer a day in a lot of cases, and they're killing hogs all the time. And archery gets expensive when you're you know, putting, putting high in you know, the top of the line titanium broadheads on and of arrows, it's just gets expensive. So there was a couple of things we wanted to have. First of all, a head that could kind of do anything, you know, if if if you could take our AP one point seven and hunt elk with it. You could hunt deer with it, you can help this with it, you can hunt hogs with it. It kind of doesn't matter. Um, you give it to somebody that shoots out of a fifty pound bow, short draught length, it's going to perform fine. Um. So it's really it's an all purpose head. It's it's it's good at everything, and it doesn't necessarily excel in one particular category. It's just kind of a performance characteristics. So and then by doing that and offering it at a lower price, we were just trying to be able to check all the box is, you know, if it were sure, And that's what that one was for. So I wanted to use it because, you know, I wanted to be able to you know, I think I wanted to prove that that, um, that you can do anything with the all purpose head. It's not it's not a lower quality head. It's every bit as good as the titanium heads were just using you know, a different feral material when we make it sure. Yeah, so that kind of addresses my my next question. But and I'm sorry if I was stepping on your toes here a little bit casey. But you know, for me, I've shot personally, I've shot a particular broad head for like, um, and I've changed. It's the same broad head, but it's got a little uh different additive to it now. But it's I mean generally the same broad head for like a dozen years or so, maybe even more now. And so for a guy like me, like, what is the I mean, I'm scared to change my broad head when it's worked for me every time I pulled the trigger? What what is the you know, what is the I guess what do you foresee as being benefits to jump and ship and using a severe broad head? And then you know, I mean obviously there could be there and in somebody's mind like mine, there anything that could go wrong, you know, I mean, what is what is uh, what's the reason that some guy like me shouldn't maybe change that to that broadhead. Yeah. So at the end of the day, I mean, you've got to have competence in your equipment. And um, what I like to tell people is that, first of all, the severe design is a rear deploy head, and most people shooting a mechanical broadhead today use some flavor of a rear deploy head UM. You know, Rage is probably the biggest player in that space. UM and and really did a good job of, you know, showing the market what you can do with a rear deploy design. And so you know, they do really well with with that design, and I always I'll just use them as an example. I tell people, if you like, if you like the performance you see in there, you're gonna of how the SEVER performs because are the pivoting blade is going to give you comparable entry holes that you would see to other premium rear deploy mechanicals. But what sets us apart is by being locking pivoting, you eliminate deflection. So when when any mechanical has a two inch blade on it, you hit a bone with that blade, it's the head can deflect if the bone doesn't break, and that the arrow can change direction. And that's a downside that can happen with with really any other mechanical design. And so what SEVER is going to bring to the table is it eliminates that variable of blade deflection. So that would be one thing I would tell you is you can have all the good things that you've experienced with your current heads UM and you can eliminate deflection by the locking pivoting design. You can also because of the same locking pivoting takes steep steeper quarterings with the SEVER head than you might be able to with other mechanical designs. So again, it just it stacks the deck more in your favor that the situation that you're gonna find yourself will be Um, you'll be able to make a good shot on it, depending on you know, it just increases your ability to execute that shot. The other thing that's nice and unique with sever is we're the only head on the market that you can practice with the actual heads you're gonna hunt with. So you can lock the head in a close position and practice with the same head you're gonna hunt with. And as I said in the beginning, it's a competence game. And so if you can have more competence in your setup knowing that you shot the actual head that you're gonna hunt with, um, you're going to be that much better off. M M. Yeah, I like that a lot. So as far as like the I guess the the the flip side of the coin there, I mean you kind of mentioned in the beginning, but I guess you know and in at the end, the confidence factor for a guy who doesn't want to switch over is probably kind of a key thing. But I mean, I guess you know, you have to be open to things to be able to increase uh your knowledge and and your expertise and and hopefully to become a better hunter. So um, totally interesting. I don't know if you have any other thoughts about it, but man, I do like the the fact that you can lock those blades and practice, um with the head that you have, you know, and feel like that you don't have to go sharpened blades because I can tell you I've I've tried for years to sharpen blades and knives and everything, and I think they turn out duller than when I started with them. Yeah, you know. I I've told a lot of people too. If you don't want it, if you're not ready to switch, or if you don't if they're if you're happy with your current setup, don't switch. I mean, I'm not going to try to twist someone's arm to make the switch. Um, you know, I'm just like try to point out that what makes our different, how it can help a particular hunter. Um, certainly it can and and you know, if nothing else to being that it's consumer direct our heads cost less than competing comparable heads. So there's a lot of good reasons to switch. But I'm not you know, at the end of the day too, if you if you're happy with what you've got, by all means, you know, there's a lot of good broadheads out there. So I mean, don't you know, I'm not going to try to force somebody to do it when I'm talking to them, but you know, I think that there's a lot of opportunity. We're always trying to improve our game, and there's a lot of opportunity to try new products, even if you are um pretty set on another on another product. Usually with you know, don't hunts or hogs. Um, there's a lot of we'll call them low low risk hunts, low stakes hunts that you happened, you know, in a year where I think it's a good opportunity to try new gear. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at in this whole process. You know, is uh is you know, wanting to do to try to try new things. But maybe you know, and this this almost sounds weird, but um, you know, try and this it's not meant intended to be this way, and I'll explain, but like you know, like if I'm going to harvest a dough this year, that's kind of where I want to try it. It's not necessarily because the dough means less to me than a buck um, but it's more of that it's a smaller animal, so less room, you know, less uh, less things that can go wrong as an arrow is penetrating through that body cavity. Right, So that's kind of where I'm at is is uh. I think you know, for me, the switch comes by by shooting something that uh or you know, for a guy, for a guy that hunts out west, might be a pronghorn or something like that, you know, you know, tested out and then you get a little more bravery as you go on, you shoot bigger and bigger things. The next thing, you know, you're smoking a spike in early September. Right, Yeah, that's cool. So and that's kind of uh. One of the things that I've noticed about it too, is that that practice mode is super handy. I mean, it is just really nice to be able to put that little sets true in and then like the other day I was shooting him, I was shooting the sever at a hundred yards and I mean a hundred yards. You can't tell what's you know, drift and what's you know, the difference in a uh field point in a in a broadhead, right, and uh, I mean them things are they're flying really nice at that distance. So it's pretty cool to be able to you know, shoot your actual true broadhead and not you know, have any repercussions of dulling blades or you know, breaking something or whatever and just you know, hit another arrow because you have a pointy thing out there. But one of the things that I've I've noticed with them, um is that uh, when you do deploy the blades, uh, I don't know what you call them. I'm gonna call them the triggers, right, So the two things that stick out that grab the animals high when when you have impact that deploy the blades. Adam, is that the industry word, I don't really know what they're calling. We call them deployment arms. Deployment arms, I like it all right. So the deployment arms U are never fully concealed one the blades deployed, so you actually kind of have a blunt surface there next to the blade. As it's passing through the animal. Is there any concern with that or you know, issues with drag or penetration that those can cause. You know, that's a question we get from time to time. Um, when the blades, when the blades open, okay, those deployment arms are pushing or pushing the blades open. If you can imagine that the head didn't lock for a moment and kind of take it back to UM the design that if it didn't have that locking tab and that didn't lock open, it's essentially doing the same thing that like the Rocky Mountain gator did or a lot of broadheads due today that don't lock. There's a lot of pivoting. The hybrid Muzzy Hybrid, for example, has a pivoting blade that uses a similar deployment arm to open it. And the only reason I think people that get they get focused on that with our design is because our blade locks, it kind of forces it into that position where they see how that thing sticks up in front of the laid. The thing to keep in mind is it's the resistance of the hide that pushes the blade open, and what it actually will do is it it only sits on that locking tab and to prevent it from closing, and so the blade will actually stay open beyond that more than it actually hits the tab. So long story short, we haven't found it to be UM detrimental you know, to penetration. I mean I've taken them and completely ground that off, completely put it in a lock position, and you know, and I we have a bunch of tests, will do and things in the lab, but when we were developing that, I was not able to see any difference UM with it there or not there. But the reason we have it, and the reason it does stick out a little bit is that's needed in order to push the blade open far enough to get it to lock. So it's it's part of the design. It needs to be there for it to do what it's supposed to do. Yeah, I got you. So let's go a little bit broader here because I think we might may have skipped over something that was kind of important. You were talking about the performance of a UM a rear deployee versus UM what I'm assuming as a front deploy like some of the things on the market. Um. Yeah, why why do you feel that a rear deployee is kind of the best answer for for the issue and be you know, do you do you plan on saver sticking with this one specific design of being a two blade rear deploy. Yeah. So to answer your question, I do believe that a rear deploy is the best mouse trap for a mechanical broadhead. UM. The reason for that is the deployment arms earned. Well, there's two reasons. One let me get the first one is UM, a rear deploy head like ours that pivots open is not affected by speed across bow. So if you can shoot our head out of a really fast crossbow and it doesn't want to deploy early in flight. And that's a problem with front deploy heads if you shoot them too fast. The faster you shoot him, the more they're gonna want too open M. So that's one thing, and we just don't makes it easier to shoot it out of any speed hill you want. UM. But the second and thing I think most people care about is you just get those giant entry holes. UM. With a front deploy head, it's possible that you can get a big hole, but it's also possible that it takes an inch or two of that broadhead going into the animal before the blades are fully deployed. And the front deploy was the first style of mechanical broadhead out there on the market. That's kind of what came first, and the rear deploy came second. And and I believe that the rear deploys the the best way to go for those reasons. And then and to your other question, um, are we going to stick to that app? I believe the plan right now is we wouldn't want to deviate from what's working well for us, so we would plan on sticking with the rear deploy. That's cool. I see the benefit of like trying to give uh, consumers everything they could ever want, right, But at the same time, sometimes it's a cop out. And I kind of appreciate people who kind of sticking their guns, because, you know, if you find something that works, and it works really well, why why try to do anything different except to just change up your marketing to just sell something new, right, and it's not you're not being really honest with the consumer. If just product sales is what's driving you know, uh, I guess innovation. You can put the quotes around it, right, Well, it takes a lot of effort to promote, to promote a brand and to promote a product, and UM, if we were changing it up and if we had a fixed later, if we had a different mechanical design, we would have to explain that and talk about what it is, what it does differently, why why do we have it? And I think we can do better with UM having a laser being focused And this is what we do every day, is we support the sever design, which the Severate brand, the sever head and everything feeds into one message. UM, blocking pivoting. You can practice with it, I mean everything about what is ever. You know, I think most people now UM that have heard about our brand know that it's a locking, pivoting design. And that's partly because we're just a We're focused on that one thing. Yeah, and I believe that's the strength to our brand. We don't have distractions, you know, we don't have a lot of products we're trying to support. UM. We have a a design and we have you know, three different models, but they all work the same. Yeah, yeah for sure. So UM. You know earlier you talked about how the the Olmer Edge kind of had a cult following and I can't remember like those things going for like twenty bucks apiece, you know, like on you on forums and stuff, you know, like feature all about them, you know people that love them, but I don't really know the details of them. What what what did you tweak on that original broadhead? That's you, that's you, you know really like the savers. Basically, the only thing that's the same as the original Olmer edge is the patent, the intellectual property that we're using to make this. Ever, everything else about the head was changed. So the locking, the locking pivoting blade, I mean, the way our blade functions and opens and locks open is is the same, but the ferrell is completely different. Um. We we we re engineered the blades. Um. The original old ranche had a single bevel. We changed it to a double bevel. Um, we added a you know, a spring washer inside the inside the system. So really every single thing was completely re engineered from the ground up. Um and in part because you know, we didn't we're not the same We weren't the same people that did the older edge, so we kind of had to come at it new anyways. So but yeah, I mean fundamentally, it's an entirely new broadhead, just working under the same mechanics. Yeah, I got you so oh um, let me tell you my hang up? All right, Okay, So I'll plan on sheet a few animals with the SAMU this year. Don't get me wrong, because I think they're cool and I see the benefits of it. But man, the O ring thing drives me crazy. So tell me why an O rings shouldn't bug me that that? Well, I I tell people, don't hate on the old ring. It's just doing his job. And right if if you're gonna hate on something with a lot of broadheads over the years have used O rings and people didn't like it, it's not the old rings fault. It's the design of the broadhead's fault. I mean if if I were designed a broad head that had an OD ring that was exposed, you know, and and easy to break, and I'd be frustrated too, and I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to use it, and um and then so much so you see, broadhead, they went away, you know they didn't. They went away from over rings entirely and have gone to you know, callers, different other ways to retain blades, clips and different things. What I see what I love. Here's what I love about an O ring with the right design, and I'll couch it in that if you have the right broadhead design. What I love about an O ring is it's it's simple and it works every time. It's simple and it works, and you can over complicate things to a fault sometimes where we try to come up with a better mouse trap that doesn't work all the time, and you hear horror stories of some heads not deploying in different things, and I don't want that. I want our head to work every time. And what I love about the O ring is it's it's simple and it works. So the other but that's what I was saying. It's all about the design of the broad head. Our blades are completely hidden in the ferrell. So when you put the O ring there, there's a little a little notch on the back that that kind of contains it getting that thing to pre deploy when you don't want it to. Like, you know, if you're sticking around the woods and you snag it on something that it's just not it's just a non issue, frankly. I mean the blades. There's if if the blades were partially open, like a lot of other broadhead designs are, then I think we'd be having a totally different discussion because I'd say the broadhead design requires something else that we might want to look at it. But being that ours is what is people people are, I'll hear it on the front end, like you're telling me now, like, hey, I'm concerned about this. I don't have any severed customers once they switch to shoot our stuff that ever complained about having the ring there. I mean, it's just not an issue. Um. The other part that's nice about the way ours is designed is you can put a spare O ring right on the arrow, right behind the broadhead, and you know, if you do happen to break it, you can reload that by just simply rolling it up with your phone and you don't even have to look at it. I mean it's you don't have to loosen it, you don't have to do anything. It takes less than half a second to reset that, So it's it. Sometimes I think O rings got a bad rap because of other designs, but having used it on ours for now going on three years, UM, I've taken upwards of almost forty animals with them. I've never ever had a situation in the field where I looked down in my broadheads were deployed or something like that. I mean, it isn't the problem. We also mean we we changed. We didn't make them out of rubber either, So that's another complaint that people would have is that the rubber bands would rot or they'd get old, and then they wouldn't you know, they'd break easy. Ours are made of silicone the rings, so they don't have a shelf life. So that that was just something we did too, you know, we didn't want problems that way. Yeah. See, that's something I kind of had in the back of my head, was the fact that that's going to letter. UV's gonna break that down. But if it's if it's made at a you know, silicone, then it's not I'm gonna have that issue. That's cool. Yeah, he won't affect it. Cold one affect it. Um, your time won't affect it. So yeah, I'll tell you what will affect it. What I'll learned is that you need to take that OH ring off when you put it in practice mode because those blades a little a little bit enough to break the O rings. I'll busted O rings O day. Yeah, shooting them into a target. Yeah, what I like to just roll take the o ring. You don't even need to take the broadhead off to do it, but just roll the other ring back all the way onto the air, right to the front of the vein. Yeah, on your arrow. Just roll it all the way back out of the way, and then you can do your practice shooting. And then when you want to, you know, put it back. You can just roll it roll back to where you needed to be. So it's a good idea, Tyler, Are you got anything else? Man? You guys have addressed pretty much everything I've been thinking. Just one step ahead, that's right. Yeah, yeah, it's like I'm listening to my own podcast, you know what I mean, Clint, what's a good way to remember to take out your your practice screw in that way, you don't go into the field with a practice head. Don't drink. You know someone's gonna do You know someone's gonna do it. Oh yeah, ione's gonna forget to take the Oh I know it'll be my fault. They don't get their deer. But no, honestly, I think you just gotta what I What I like to do is I I like to keep one or two heads in practice mode and they're kind of like my dedicated practice heads. You know, I'll even paint them and you know, do different things, and I don't ever take the set screws back out. They kind of become my like just these are ones I shoot when I need to check them, and then I just use fresh ones to hunt. Um. You know that that's just what I do, and I recommend that to most people, you know. I mean I've I've practiced with the actual head I hunt with a couple of times. You know, when I get to camp, if I feel like something might have moved, Um, especially if I'm moving in elevation, if I could fly to a different state or something, I will put put that in once and you know, just to take a shot or two into a target with it. But yeah, I mean, he's gotta you just gotta pay attention to your stuff and and and don't make that mistake, right. Yeah, So what's the what's the biggest bodied critter that you've shot with? Sever would probably be a zebra. Yeah, went to Africa last fall and um, I shot eleven animals there and that's cool. Yeah, but you know, a zebra is my biggest animal shot with them. But I mean I'm familiar with probably three or four bison, UM too, Alaskan moose. You know, a whole bunch of elk m as far as big big animals go, even um this year, UM in Africa, there's been a couple of elands which are bigger than an elk. I mean they're they're pushing a bull eland can be two thousand pounds. Yeah, so you know upwards a two thousand pounds, so you know they're big. So we've started to have a lot of big, big animals hit the ground with Severs too. Yeah that's cool, man, That's that's really awesome. They just buy cows, So that's that's a pretty cool. So. Uh well, if anybody, um wanted to check out more what Severs got going on, maybe purchase some kids. Where where should we send them to? Yeah, so I'll leave you there's one one little thought. So our website is www dot sever broadheads dot com. Um. But one thing that's nice about what we do is we sell them in individual quantities, so you don't have to buy three packs. Yeah, and we're finding a lot of people like that. They might be like, you know, like someone that doesn't want to switch necessarily, they don't want to they're not ready to commit to buying six new ones, but maybe they want to buy just one or two. Our whole business model allows you to buy as few as you want. There as many as you want, and so, um, check out several broadheads dot com. You can buy individually there. We also have some deals. Um, the more you buy, the better deal you get. Yeah, and um so yeah cool and uh center doesn't have an E in the last part, so it's as E d R R e v R broadheads dot Com. Yeah, yeah, awesome, man. Well, when you're gonna come out with the one and the one point seven, because that's something I'm really interested in. That's a good suggestion. And you know, we hear If we hear it enough, we're gonna pay attention. Al right, guys, everybody listening righty in that way anyways, Well, Clinton, that's been awesome man. You got wealth knowledge and uh it's cool to see that you know, you kind of have, uh some passion behind this project in the fact that, uh, you know you're willing to put him to the test. It's cool that you've killed an elk this year, were the one already, So hopefully that's some good YouTube for the rest of us. And uh, who knows, I might try to send one through a big bull in the heel of this year. So uh. Anyways, man, thanks so much for coming on and uh and talking to us. We really appreciate it, man, Thanks, Casey and Tyler. I appreciate it to no problem, all right, man, we appreciate it. Man. We'll see you. Thank you. Understanding this stuff is really something I feel I can take my archery game to the next level. Absolutely, man. 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