00:00:00 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining the me Eater podcast. We're in Las Vegas, Nevada as something called Shot Show. Um. Some folks might call it ship show, but a shot Show. It's a chaotic, hectic convention dedicated to all things shooting and hunting related. It's an annual thing in Las Vegas. It's like it's I'm here with your honest you tell us Helen Show, what was wrong? Nothing? I'm just looking at Ryan Helen Show. Um, Kenton Caruth from First Light, Ryan Callahan from First Light. Someone take a stab and explaining Shot Show after two days, I knows what it stands for. I don't want to stands for to shooting, hunting, outdoor and trade. It's just too much. If they wouldn't let any people in and I could just go around on. You know, like a while ago, there's a big scandal because Oprah Win. If you wanted to go into some store in Paris and she had him like closed the store, I'm not up. This is old. I just remember hearing this. She had him closed the store so she could shop privately. I would like to have a day to spend it shot privately, where it's just all the people who run all the booths, but no other people are allowed except me to go in and walk around and find out about what I want to find out about without anybody else being there except people who I needed. Where I would push a button and a person would materialize and tell me about what I wanted to tell me about. That's what That's my kind of shot show, Steve show. But hurting down these corridors is just it's just too much, do you think about it, cal Man? I, yeah, I totally agree. Except for my version of shot show, I wouldn't be here, but I'd hit your button. I'd go to first. Let that keep hitting the button until Kelly and showed up there and I was like, yeah, I'm talking about the new products. But it obviously serves a purpose. It serves a huge purpose, it does it does? You know? There's the people are like bringing out their new stuff here. They're launching new products here, and that's pretty interesting. Um, and you get you know, there's a lot of press folks. Like when we had the p h A Cocktail Hour yesterday, we had a lot of magazine editors there and that was cool. What were they what were they sniffing around about? Mostly free beer? So yeah, you had okay, and magazine editor showed up. You got to do a little elbow robin. Yeah, elbow robin, and we were getting the that Open Country Award. I'll talk about that in a minute. So we got you know, I got a couple of paths on the back, and I gotta let him know that it's true, we actually do good things. So at this moment, can't share with us your acceptance speech. At this moment, can is carefully crafting an acceptance speech that will be awarded to First Light tonight for called the Open Country Awards comes from Outdoor Life magazine. Right for advocating on behalf of not just advocating, acting on behalf of advocating on behack of being a defender of public lands and public access. Yep, yep, we um, I don't know, maybe a year ago, um id Ryan credit we uh. We basically did a similar thing to what Midway does with the n r A, and it is we had a we call it round up for conservation, So when a guy buy something, he can either round up the next dollar or donate you know, how much ever he wants. Basically, I think it's TETs to be like five ten and hundreds, but um to a certain extent um. And then he can either pick whether he wants to give it to the uh the t r c P, which is the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, or you can give it to the back country Hunters Angler pheasants forever um or all of the above. Um. So, uh, you know, we're a small company, but you know, every little bit helps, and it's kind of built into our companies kind of ethos that I mean, if we didn't have public lands, we wouldn't have a business. So you kind of got a you know, it's uh, it's it's important, you know, because most of you guys customers were like even the guys I think that are back East a lot are are are guys that are you know, hunting. You know, it's not quite so prevalent there. You know, they try to maybe separate themselves a little bit from the absolute you know, densist hunting populations. And certainly and so in the West we have talked about like that like scenario where if everything is leased up and chunked up and it's hunting clubs everywhere, and public land is not like a viable option for actually harvesting game that like, how technical of hunting apparel do you need? Like everybody's sitting in a heated box blind right, you know, we wouldn't exist. It's kind of like, uh, it's very apropos today to beginning this award right now, and they're giving out the award right now about conservation of public lands because I think public lands is something people don't even really think about. But then over the last few weeks we've been dealing with these Oregon dick shines who are well put coming out. I mean they're not even these dick shines in Oregon who are coming out and saying that the best thing to do with our nation's public lands is let them have unfettered, unpaid grazing access on those lands. As though It's like, I don't think the public should own it. I just think that I should be able to do it for what I want to use it for, because it's here and so am. I wonder what they would say if I roll doing the trailer with just like you know, head and some great son. A matter of fact, I'm gonna set up a grazing operation here as well. What I'm gonna do, No, now that it's become clear that it is that there's absolutely no problem from a law enforcement perspective for you to common deer federal property. I'm gonna go in. It's like I'm gonna go take Mammoth Hot Springs and I'm gonna be like, you know what, dude, I should be able to hunt here and Yellowstone. I don't want all these other people in here at low Stone. I've been eyeball in this place for a long time. People used to be able to hunt here prior to eighteen seventy seven or even later than that. So it's back to the way I want it. I got a gun. If you come near Mannoth Hot Spring on a shoot you, I'm building a hunting cabin. I'm hunting it, bitch, because this is just my ship. And I got a gun pipes in this hot spring. Why yeah, I know, it's like why, like, why not? Because law enforcement doesn't care. A matter of fact, I'll be driving around. I'd be down here shots showing my Yellowstow National Park truck. Because they drive around and come and go in federal vehicles. It's a okay, dude. If it was any other kind of mug, they would have shot him up. And then the really funny thing is like here shots who go to the law enforcement department. All it is. It's all kinds of equipment for enforcing law law enforcement. So it's like every kind of thing you need to kill, every kind of crook, and the end, every kind of property is all here, and it's like, why not let's round up a bunch of this ship and going force some laws in Oregon. No one cares. It is so paint. We've discussed to this at length at the First Light office. While we should be doing other things more specific to First Light m I they care, and they should be enforcing. I think they're taking a very tactful approach that I do not understand. I would prefer they go in and you don't want to be like Ruby Ridge. You don't have to wake. You can't have being the one of these guys in there making some coffee on the government coffee pot and all of a sudden his brains are splattered over the inside because some guy shot him through a window. Agreed, But they're leaving town and going to all these kind of activities and grocery shopping. One of them was at some public comment period with a bunch of law enforcement officials need drove back to the thing. Yes, yeah, wins enough enough and even seen any of the pack. Could you send them? Yeah, yeah, that's funny. If you guys sent him anything on behalf of the first line, I don't know what we'd send them. I wanted to jump on the bandwagon in a bad way, but when it's not your original idea. Yeah, you know, I got a buddy was saying that. Um, he hopes the pretty soon they'll be spending some time in another federal facility, but the only problems will be paying for them there too. Yeah yeah, right now we're paying their heat. Yeah, enforcement, you know, um, because there's so many different agencies right there. But you know, the Forest Service cops are apt the Forest Service building which is shut down, and they're watching out and making sure, you know, nothing gets screwed up with there, and we're all we are paying for an insane amount of over time. This is all actually just a diversionary tactic from me and Yanni. Take Mammoth right, I like it. Yellow Stone, Dude, North Entrance. It's like everyone's watching Oregon and Austin Menoni going to the Yellowstone guns drawn guns blazing, Like, damn it, we're taking this back and hunting, guns blazing and clothing option right, It's just is it's like, I don't want to talk about this all day, but it's so ridiculous and so anti American and the fact that these guys can somehow cloak themselves in the flag. You know, it'd be like if I went in, I'd get like a Ryan Callahan shirt, Like I get like a Ryan Callan shirt with Ryan's picture on it and stars all over, and I go in and burn your fucking house down, And he'd be like, oh, but you know what, he says, He's doing it for Ryan Callahan, So I must be confused. I must mistakenly think that this is somehow an aggression against me because he says it's for me, So like we're doing this for America's like what aspect of America? Your private livestock business. It has nothing to do with patriotism, has nothing to do with the United States of America. It's just like unbridled greed and a complete disregard for historical perspective and no fucking idea what you're talking about. Have you ever ducks on it? There? No, you count. It's pretty good. Huh. It's just a certain and the fact that people keep giving these guys like a platform and talk about putting the land back to use for who you right now, it's working for like it's working for the nation. It's working for you know, are like common wildlife heritage are common access heritage is providing like you can't. I don't care what kind of denomination you come from. What's that of devotion you come from? We need to have habitat and protective measures for American wildlife. One of the ways we do that is through the refuge system, particularly of wetlands. If you think it's somehow, I don't care, like where are you coming at it from religion or some kind of pagan perspective or some kind of atheist perspective, is just simply wrong to abuse wildlife. You have to have a place for wildlife, in a place for wildlife habitat the fact you act like a wildlife refuge is somehow this pointless land being like not used. It's being used probably the best thing it could be used for. Plus it's open to the public if you hunt the refuge system. The obviously the fact that they went out under the guise of protesting to get these two ranchers out of prison whose families didn't want him to do it. And their poachers, I mean they're poachers. They're burning the field to cover up evidence of poaching. That's the other thing is these guys before went and like went out and burned your lands, so burned federal lands as you know, and then back off federal agents with firearms. Nothing comes of it, Like, what kind of message does it send? Do you can just bully like our institutional enforcement measures. It's like, oh yeah, patriotism. Patriotism. However, you people who abide by the law, have follow electoral politics, try to engage in civic duties. And we've put together a constitution. We put together a w that we enforce laws in the way that we have a representative government, right that you can address and have legislation and an issue to the change things you don't want. You know, we don't like any of that. We're so patriotic, we can't stand constitutional government. That's how patriots. It's like, at what point are they just to be called out for people who are like un American, anti American. Yeah, I don't want to talk about You're gonna get a lot of people fired up. And I don't feel good, you know, like in a positive way, like about what's going on here, because I think a lot of people are a little complacent. They're just kind of like watching on the news and they're kind of like whatever, you know, Dick Shines and Oregon, like any bothering what I'm doing right here in my world, you know, a call to action. I would invite anyone who's curious about this issue to go read about the environmental history in that area and study up on what it was like under the cattle barons. Study up in was like when it was decimated by drought in overgrazing and no one was doing ship there. It's more complicated than just that there was this long, glorious heyday of unfettered land use and all of a sudden, now they're fighting over things or arguing over things and wanted to take claim for wanting to seize access to things that exist. Because of the level of federal protection it has, people had to work so hard to get that protected in all people, so many people had to come together and be like, Okay, we really messed this stuff up. We're gonna take some measures protect this stuff. The FEDS have made concessions two local ranchers. The existing size of the refuge is actually smaller than when it was established. So it's like this beautiful example of the process working, not the process not working. Thank it's totally It's a bipartisan, beautiful thing, and these guys are totally using it as an example of God knows what greed is what I come. Yeah, if there's so much public support for where they're coming from, then why don't they You don't take political measures to to fix it the same way anybody does anything. I don't want to keep talking about it all day but crying out woud Anyhow, First Lights getting this big award. Ken doesn't know what he's gonna say. Can't just right now real quick, act like you're up there. So I'm like, the award goes to First Light. Okay, stands up, Kim stands up and says, uh, mostly not to think Andrew McKean and uh and Outdoor Life Magazine for you know, paying attention to that. This is a big cause, you know. And at the end of the day, there's a lot of people that that don't want vast amounts of public land. They'd rather use it for their kind of own personal and potentially the ill gotten gains and and and you know, for the greater population it would it gets taken away. So you know, these guys are up there them and and you know Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and back Country unders Anglers, and they're these groups that are fighting and they're fighting hard to keep lands public. So people that you know might not have, you know, fifty dollars to go to Africa to do these you know, crazy private hunts can have these amazing public experiences well within their means, you know. And and from a selfish point of view, I that's what I love to do. And that's what my company makes close for people to do, to people to be able to go out and you know, brave the elements and spend time out in the woods. So um, it's a it's an issue close to my heart's what I like to do. I like to go out in the woods and in winter time, whether it be you know, skiing or snowboard in the back country, or whether it be hunting on public lands. You know, it's always spent a shipload of time that was perfect. You filled up your time slot perfectly. Well, just remember that. I just should think I haven't recorded it. I'm just gonna play it. You just staying up there. I couldn't be here today. There was one of those tape decks, like when you like in the old days at a wedding, they set out like a CD player and hit player. Yeah, you can say Kenton is under the pupid having mild modern anxiety. But in the place, I'll play this right here. I just like to keep to keep going on. I just I do have a couple more things to say. The issue. Like I was talking my brother about the public lands issue. He's like, I just don't understand when someone goes by, you know that they go by to say, like the Gallant Mountains, so like there it is national force open for everybody to go to, protected in perpetuity. Is he like, are they driving by an adversary to public lands, an adversary of federal public lands? Do they drive by and look at like what do they see? Like He's like, are they like, I'll only be happy when that's a resort. I'll only be happy when that's developed from the valley floor to the peak. That's my vision, Like I don't understand, like what is the motivating factor? I understand what it's like economic, but like what is the motivating factor? Like why can't you just look at that and be like thank God, because we are at no risk of running out of developed areas, but we are at tremendous risk of running out of non developed areas. Problem is that they've never looked at it. Look at all time. Who you think constantly there's there's there's adversaries to the public land movement, and then staying public land. They are driving by those mountains looking at him, thinking that they're seeing it, but I don't think they're there. The movement against public lands is in a lot of ways is the native movement. Okay, I I agree with all fronts, but I think that that that that the way it kind of plays out is a little different. I think how it plays out is the state gets into bind. They owe a ton of money somewhere, right, and then well, first of all, the federal governments is okay, you control the states, so they give it to the state. That's a whole another argument, right, But then the state gets into a bind and they're like, I don't know how you know we're gonna get at this we're broken ship and they think, oh, I know we can sell that place, and all of a sudden, you know, that's kind of the slippery slope, and no, that's that's how it's gonna shake out. And the long that's like, that's that's the version of events of how this becomes trouble. States are going to allow the level of access public access, and then they're gonna that they have the right to and will you know, lesson protections or sell. But what then, what I'm talking about is then all of a sudden, that is what people All of a sudden, the dollar signs start going off, Like I don't necessarily people think they drive by the you know, crazy with the gallantons or anything, you know, any place and say I want to develop that. Basically, what happens is that there's a couple of things that happen and all of a sudden it gets to where this you know, some developers whoever believe they can profit off of it, all of a sudden then they start to see it. But I don't necessarily think that they say it's going to start. I gotta get that before the next guy does somebody else is going to get it. But I and I think that once they smell blood, then they go after it. But that's not necessarily so much. So, yeah, that you hate an open mountain side. Yeah, we're not even like scratch. But I can't I keep making this like mountain centric. It's not mountain such well, and in organon, we're not talking my mountain. Right, That scrubby, little mixed grass, chunk of prairie out there, it's right on the edge of a development. Anyone ground doesn't do anything. They making me any money exactly com So you know, it's I think it just and it gets just chipped away and chipped away and chipped away, you know. And and it's a battle. They're they're just there's forces that want that for themselves. Hell, and you do a lot of exercising Central Park, right, he said, that's where you're riding your bike for get ready for your elk cut the beds don't open. You can apparently just go in there and take it Central Park. Great. Long there's a terribly awesome, terribly bad movie which made it really good about taking Central Park. I don't remember what I think it was called Taking Central Park. Show they keep though, Joe, tell me to tell me some stuff that, uh, tell me some stuff I don't know about. Oh, I wanted to ask you a question. Actually, Um, have you eaten all of you deer? Have I eaten all my dear? No? I actually just bought a chest fezer nice. Yeah, So have you eaten much of you dear? A lot of it? But it's I don't know when the next opportunity I'll have to go hunting. So I'm kind of well, I've been just kind of savor like I've been eating more fish or fish than are you know. I told you come out in the spring, will do morals and turkeys. That would be amazing. Now, hell, let me ask you about this. We we were deer hunting in southwest Wisconsin in an area that's known as the c w D Zone, and it's area where there's been a, uh you know, a number of high profile cases of chronic wasting disease in that area for a long time. The state of Wisconsin. I thought that they were going to kind of shoot their way out of the problem by radically reducing her densities in southwest Wisconsin is like basically like always deer season unlimited tags. It was just then they kind of regrouped and noledge teams of strategy is to learn to live with c w D, monitor and see where it goes. Um. C w D chronic waste diseases of course the deer and elk version of mad cow or you know, scrapy and sheep and um, we brought our deer and for testing. Did you wait to get the results from your deer before you started eating your deer? Know? So what happened was apparently we cut it to short so he couldn't test, My dear, you didn't they didn't have the glands on. Yeah, exactly, So I ate it. What are the symptoms of c w D. Well, you get up, your your brain starts to look like Swiss cheese. But it's no one, no one, no humans ever got c w D. Crustsfield Jacobs is the human equivalent. No, I started, I mean, we ate it. Jump. Yeah. But here's the thing, is okay, So there's a number of things that they talked about with c w D. Is the it's the prions here called prions, and prions are concentrated in the spinal column in the brain. UM Kennon just immediately clicked over to sci fi exactly. Um, it manifests itself in a more stressed you're more stressed all the time. That's thea you have been feeling like stressed by any chance and allowing it what it's real severe They like wind up for weird reason in Las Vegas. So if you're like feeling stressful in Las Vegas seeing lots of people, it could be so what they advise it like, well, here's it's such a complicated picture with with C W D. No person, no known person, like there's no there's no known case of transmission from Dear or Elk to humans. Mhm. But some people think it's a matter of time. Some people think it just if it was gonna happen, it would have happened. Really hard to say. When a deer gets it, it's invariably fatal, Like how soon, I mean, how quickly does it happen? Can take a year or two, but you will die, No, not you dear to gets it. It's a fatal thing. It's just not instantaneous. They like they they go along, go along, it seems like nothing's wrong with them, and then they begin to have they begin to collapse. How it transmitted that. I don't know what it has to do with close proximity the animals, does it, does it move to it? Does it move through insects? Someone looked at sucks were like, sound like some real dumbasses for not knowing how deer. No, No, it's it's knows to knows. It's like, yeah, because that's how it jumps from high fence operations, game farms and stuff, because wild animals in inevitably wind up rubbing noses through the fence. Imagine that Bambi scene. You know, I've never seen Bandy. Maybe I've never seen baby. So you never got the results. I got the results of mind result, which was, yeah, Dougs never Dug Dur has never had a c w D. Not not anything he's doing, but he's never had a c w D deer to his knowledge, come off his property. I waited, but this is the first deer that I've ever eaten off Doug's place that I had tested. I waited to get the test results because I have young kids. No, I'm not worried about I know that I'm not worried about them. The thing that the main thing I live in fear of in No, I'm worried about. But here's the thing, the main thing. No, let me just scrap all that back. I just forget I said all that. I want to read. I want to be beginning new. The main thing I live in fear of is my wife's wrath. Okay, nothing, she's kind of. Nothing scares me like my wife's wrath. Were I too come home with my dear well, first, were I to get it here? And I got two doves, and I submit the heads for testing, so there's results pending. Then I would come home and we'd eat said deer. Then I would get the results, and I would say, oh, by the way, the deer we've been eaten turns out it's negative for mad cow disease. It would be my balls. Does she listen to our podcast? That's not good? Is so if I was if I was to say, oh, the dear we been e turns out it has chronic wasting disease. The good The upside is there's never been a person known to get it lose. I could have not brought the head in. I could have done the whole thing secret e. But the problem is might try to do stuff secrety. It doesn't work and I get caught. So it's like I try to every day wake up and have it be that um like wake up, Like my goal is to not be divorced. Cheesy, you live in a constant state of fear. No, No, I just live in a constant state of reality. It's like I am committed to staying married in reducing friction, and friction is feeding the kids meat that turns out as c w ding In fact, that that would be major friction because I've only just recently got back to right to eat BlackBerry meat after getting tricking osis. We had a moratorium on black bearry consumption that took me forever to get out of him. Do you know that, Kenton, and I've seen this firsthand, I cannot just openly say, oh, I saw a bunch of elk or deer and I passed him up. She'll be mad, Yes, she wants them in the home. She wants them dead and on the plate. Yeah. And when I say, it's like she's not interested the whole shopping around from Oh no, not at all. And when I my buddy asked me, like, how'd it go? And I I have to be a little bit untruthful and say I was terrible, when in reality it could have been really good, you know what my wife says, because it'll be like, especially bow hunters, you know, you could be like day twenty and you're just like, man, I'm tired, but you know, I'm pounding, I'm getting getting it done. And my wife's always encouraged me to get out in there and get after and I'll be like, but you know, like think about all the memories I've made in the last twenty days. She'll say, you know what, you can't eat memories exactly exactly produce. Mr patelis, Yeah, yeah, did you Did you guys have any kind of blowback about eating bear meat servant to the kids and stuff. No, one day the first time I did after that made like meat candy. No, my kids just hose in it. And uh, my wife's trying to like she got she feel like, what is the same way, It's like, oh, it's you know, she got bad from me. But the kids just like shoveled into their mouths. I'm like, any damn it just done. It's done now, just waiting to see now because Rosy just eight a half pounder of that stuff. Chest freezer is a good source of anxiety. That's like, my anxiety is when you go to that chest freezer and flip it open, and it's like at the one third mark, one third fall. That's where I started. Yeah, we need to get stamps at the office too. I think there's a lot more meat sharing going on. I think sharing was a positive way of looking at it. We have some kind of communal freezers. Oh a lot of meat stuff. We have that at ZPZ West and Bowsman too. And my my stuff is in boxes duct tape shut when every package has my name, like where the animal was killed, dates, And I noticed someone else deposited a bunch of meat, nothing on the rapper at all. I'm like thinking, well, maybe they're going like them just by nononymity. They're hoping that people will be like I don't know what that is, yeah, or I'm like you just being idiot, like, oh, well, this is obviously just communal. You should just cut your box open and slip a little more in there. Wait, so what did you guys do with the rest of the bear with that had tricking nosis? He put it in the communal cook it for a bunch of people no, I smoked it. No. Here's the thing. This is a funny story because my brother, Um, do you text me or something? You're like, yeah. So my brother was getting married and he did the you know, you have a rehearsal dinner. So they had a rehearsal dinner for seventy so he gets all, he gets me and all our like a bunch of our buddies together and we're all going to contribute wild game dishes that we did do this. We did a rehearsal dinner for seventy five people and it was a dozen courses a wild game. But because like everybody just gets little taste, you know, so like Danny made he made he took moose brisket and made strami. So he did these little open faced rubens um that was like one dish. And we had like pickled pike on downline. And I had been saying, yeah, man, I'm bringing and before we even had the damn bear I'm talking about, Yeah, I'm bringing in uh smoked bear ham. So I get the bear and before I realized that got sick. I like smoked this big bear ham and and um then later I you know, got sick and I was telling man. He's like, man, they'll be telling people about that because when they eat it, they won't want to eat any of the food. And I said, why I can't not tell him? He goes, you're not tell him. Don't tell him that. He goes, it's cooked now, right, Like it's totally safe, and like, yeah, if I still I feel an obligation, he said, if you're gonna tell him, don't even bring it. He goes, I think you bring it and don't tell, But don't bring it in and tell because then they'll think that something's wrong with it. Hey, it's his wedding, you know. You know, bear is good, but you've got it. I mean that it's like bears have. This is I don't know, but tons of it's a huge percentage bears of tricksis huge percentage of cases of. But the fact is come from bears, Come from bears. Yeah, but now I would say that so And there's two counties in Montana, Lincoln County and Sanders County. One of the bears over six years of age that are tested in Lincoln County and Sanders count This is old information from when I first had my first bear came back positive of the bears that had hit six years of age had contracted it in those two counties. I think it's like I think it's hampen. I think that. Yeah, and all in nineties percent of the cases that humans get are getting from bearn meat. But when I got it, I was registered by the CDC as being in King County, Washington State, and that was in whatever the hell you're two thousand fourteen or two thousand fifteen. The previous guy to get in all of King County was the guy that gotten in two thousand seven from Mountain Lion. Oh. Interesting, but most cases are from but it dies at a hundred and sixty fahrenheight or something. Yeah, you don't have to like ruling your meat. Just gotta cook it. Man. We're back to eating it like we're back up and running. And I'll take one thing I'm done with is I'm done getting the sons of bitches tested. Yeah, just get because I'm not gonna what am I gonna do. Let's say they come back as as negative. No, I never paid a dieing for its free. You know how much that bear that we got sick from with the had eight hundred and sixty eight larva per grand am. I know you sent me that photo that's like the taste like almost four four hundred thousand larvaker pound god, which tells you two things. One of some dinky larva's dinky larva because you didn't get the impression that you were just eating larva. I feel like that you now have eight hundred and sixty six more protein. I can tell you where it all is. Yeah, it's like I can tell you where it is from the pain the zombie, from the parts that were painful. Damn. Yeah, and you had like pain Jannie back, your neck, your calves. Yeah, it was mostly back and uh, legs and then like biceps, triceps area. What's interesting is when you used to be able to get a tested for free UM at the university in Bozeman, you would send in. They wanted a golf ball sized piece of the tongue. No, not my tongu not worth. Yeah. It's like one of these days I won't be able to talk anymore. I I wanted to find out in my head trick bro have to write it out like I sent one. I sent a golf ball size hunk of my tongue into the university. Girl back al right, So I want to make a little point here. I don't know if it's gonna go anywhere or not, but people are always like, I can't believe it. We're still eating bear meat because I was doing a little bit of research here. But it's like salmonella, which you can get from pretty much all raw foul. Right, everybody eats chicken. Most Americans are eating chicken at home. You have not raw chicken. You pretty much well, some are now small percentage, but you have to treat that almost like bear meat. Now, obviously, I think that the symptoms sound what I'm just reading here sounds as bad as what we went through with the trick analysis. You know, like you're gonna it's basically a very severe fever and you're gonna have to go and get it diagnosed by doctor, to have them say, yes, you have salmonella, and it's probably a very rare cases fatal, yes exactly, young, old or whatever. Now, anybody has salmonella is then not living with salmonella for the next five or ten years like we are. But that doesn't matter because you don't feel it and you can't recontract it, I know. So I just want people to think about that. It's like when you have chicken raw chicken in your house, you're kind of dealing with a very similar product that has to be treated similar to hunter. I agree. I mean, it's a hundred and sixties. It's like, it's not that it was so listen, Salmonella is one seven. We got sick for being just downright stupid, and we knew we were being stupid. While we were being stupid, We're being hasty and commenting and joking about how we were going to catch the sickness, like, yeah, you can really get sick off some more. It was like, it's just I'm so glad it happened because it just gave me, you know, it just gives me more things to think about and made me learn about a lot of new stuff. And it's just not that bad of a sickness. If you knew it would be even better. But it's like you get a little worried because the word sounds weird and you have worms, and that's not nerving to have worms. I thought you guys said it was like got awful painful. I thought, yeah, but not for that long. It's it's like you're sick for a week it's like introspect you. And if I had known, here's the thing, you're sick for a week. If I had known, like when you get a cold, it sucks. Now, imagine you've got a cold, but you've never had one in your whole entire life, and all of a sudden, there's ship running like snots coming out of your nose. You had no one to ask about because you never knew anyone that had one before. How upsetting it would be, like, I can't understand there's all this fluid draining out of my head, my ears ringing funny, Um, I get these like weird body chills. Yeah, you'd be like, I must be dying. You call around people like that's never happened to me. Right then the next time you get like, yeah, that's weird. I have like all this like mucus draining out of my face, which is unusual. But I've been through this before. It goes away. So if I got it again now, I just hang tight. I don't think I would miss work. Wait, wait, do you think medicine or you just yes. I took a lot of ibprofen, and I took some very expensive de worming pills and I was the only one that took the expensive Dean warming pills and we all got better the same day. Interesting, we're all sick about Yeah, there's basically no evidence to say whether those steroids, those de warming how did you take them? It was pills or if you had eight bear meat. And then the next day we're like, oh, like say you got all drunk or something bear carpacco And the next day like, what did I do? That's when take the dee worming. Well, what I heard is that if you if you eat it large, and if you consume a large enough amount, then you will actually feel the gasha intestinal pain, which is the party of that the worms are having in your stomach, which then you can go to the doctor and be like something's wrong. They might be able to catch it. You take the oral steroids, it kills it. But because we all ate, you know, maybe an ounce of meat that day, they got us sick. None of us had symptoms for thirty days. So they had to like build up a strong fortress before they really it's when they start. They get into your basket. After they make love and have babies, they get into your basket their system and then they start burrowing into your muscle tissue, and that's when you start feeling sick. It's like a science fiction No. Man, here's the thing though. More so, you have more bacteria in your body by magnitudes of of of hundreds than you do actual cells. Kenton is more other ship than he is. Kenton, pretty clear. Hands a lot you wander eating. You're eating like blue gills or perch. And I got little black specks on the flaze. Oh, I mean only late in life, only late life. That something point out to me. That's larvae. Have you ever opened a helmet up? Yeah? I have, and I've taken plenty of grouse apart and had them just like oh man, worms everywhere, and I still got eating. No, you want to hear worm? Can we tell them about our latest worms? This is this is upsetting, all right. I shot a CU's deer bock last week and in Old Mexico, in Old Mexico, and we locked off his head. You know how he hit the little spot right there. We have those two lobes and it's really easy, just the night, can you know, take his head off the frame and magna? So what that is straight? Which what's the spinal uh? Cords part called and which one is the part of the school. I might be pronouncing it wrong because I've only ever seen it written. I've never heard anybody say it. That part of the skull is the frame and magnum, like the little smooth Yeah, but the whole like that little portion. I'm not sure I should look up how to pronounce it. Just we're taking the head of heart, just the head. No, we left the cape. They're covered in ticks. It takes hours and hours to get the ticks off because you can't bring it back into the US. You know, it's like they're gonna do it with the fine tooth comb. Anyways, you can imagine that head coming off. You look at that like spinal cord area, and then below that you kind of have the back end or the bottom end of the nasal slash mouth cavity, and in there are maybe a dozen, the smallest being the size of like a what are the little worms used for ice fishing? Yeah, waxworms, little waxworm. The biggest being like the size of a big, fat white maggot, the size of half bigger than half of your pinky. Yeah, it's like silence of the lambs, right, and it's where it's where it's signed us. Okay, it's the place where your nasal cavity sinus intersects with like your like your throat when it stophic. It starts basically yeah. Some some it's abot fly that lays the egg on its nose and it goes up there and goes to all its permutations in there, and they are spilling out different colors, sizes. Some have legs, some have arms. I mean dirt, Dirtmith. I'm down there. We're down there, leaning over working on it in the dark with head lamps. Garrett Smith almost like he starts like he's gonna vombit. Dirt man. I'm like, get away from me. Man. I'm like, if you're a thrown up on this deer, it's like buck up. But yeah, the Vicaro said, every single who's deer they've ever seen killed has it. We killed a Columbia black tail in California that had it. Was it in the meat too? Nope? No, perfectly say you could eat the thing if you want to do. Those things then fall out and go through a whole cycle in the ground and then when they hatch out of the ground, it's a fly and then again he lands on the deer's nose, drops the egg, whole thing starts over again. Doesn't doesn't cause any kind of doesn't seem to cause any kind of infection in the animal, doesn't seem to cause any kind of extreme discomfort. They've never these guys down there have never seen one that didn't have it. One of this guy was telling us that the Carol's are like the Mexican cowboys have a sort of legend where that is what thinks. That's the part of the deer that thinks interesting. Disgusting, Yeah, disgusting. We have that canine larva here. Your deer had that the what's the canine parasite? I mean like puppies, that's the parasites in your mule deer where in them in the meat? See it's like I didn't know about that. Oh yeah, those little yeah, those little dots. Yeah yeah, what's it called. It's a canine parasite. Um. What do they say about that stuff? Because they find it in coyotes and wolves and stuff like that, So they say that can you catch anything from it? No? No, not just digest you just not transferable. That's good, dude, give me a hardtack man. I would have to tell that mrs about that. I learned something interesting. So now, um we yeah, what's your concluding thoughts? Now? I had a question. I wanted to know if you guys had seen The Revenant. Nope, real bad want to have seen it. I liked it. I thought they're seen in particulars, very realistic. It is interesting. Steve that always said that he wanted to get swiped once that would want to get mildly malled by a bear and if he could, if he could, I would like him to give me claw marks and a diagonal pattern starting at my shoulder down to my lower abdomen like a tattoo. But yeah, scar too, Yes, would be pretty tough. I would That's what I would like. Whipped his shirt off and had something like that. I wouldn't be wearing one right now. I get I get shirts made out of sea through material. Would you be disappointed if you caught it like across the upper thigh. Yeah? Yeah, It's better than nothing, but not what I would prefer. I would like it on my face. Now that I'm married, I'd like it on my face. It's like I gotta go on meat ladies. Yeah, chicks would dig the helen. Yeah, but no I wouldn't. They don't even need to. It's like, you know, it's like big Bear mall Mark. Because I'm already married, doesn't matter. Would you give up one of your eyes for that? Yes, for the scratch I'm talking about, not just to happen. Butt off my pinky and run off that just that just sucks because no one's gonna see that happened. Yeah. Yeah, Now I had injury. I had like a distant relative. Uh, I had a distant relative name. We called him Uncle Gunner, but it was later explaining to me that he wasn't my uncle. He had a uh stuffed monkey and in his entryway, so we'd go there and remember his his dude name was Gunner and his wife's name is Tooti, and we'd go there and she always would like make a hand with pineapple on it, and um, he had this entryway going to before going into his house, like a little porch, and he had a stuffed monkey on a stick, and Uncle Gunner was missing a couple of fingers. And it was always explained to Uh, you know, they have people bullshit little kids with outlandish things, but they don't think that, you know, they don't realize that the kids actually think it's true. Uncle Gunner Eyes told us he lost his fingers because that monkey bit him off, and they gave him the monkey. That's what he said. Later I grew up being like it wasn't. My mom was like, my mom was like, this is not what happened to that man's fingers. I don't know where he got that monkey. He lost his fingers to a lawnmower, Like, I have no idea what he told you or however, like got to live this long in your head. That's what I have. The Uncle Gunner his fingers. We have won multiple debates on that. And then don't yeah, like, in fact, monkeys do bite fingers off. Because I saw the monkey, I know a guy, sir, we apologize for the monkey being vicious. You may take it home, alright. So concluding thoughts, Helen that I just want if you watched him evidence that's not even like a thought. That's my only thought right now. Yeal oh, have your concluding thought me about some exciting new products we can see going off the first light. Boh, I'm just I'm super excited and what we have going on if people don't buy a single thing. This is our best year of product. I mean, it's amazing stuff. So I'm going to be very comfortable. I like those new mittens a whole bunch. Yeah, Weed, that was I had a lot of very sole original thoughts on that product. It's really come along with Steve and Janice and Kenton and Ben and everybody has put a lot of work into into these mintens in there, you know, alsothing like I have that chance. The word is the ball of Claus that has the I call what's that stuff? Oh my god? That's those nice it is and you can still hear out of it. It doesn't that's great about Yeah, that's what's great about that is you can hear through it. Yeps. Panties made out of that stuff. Interest interesting. We tested the I'm sorry, I don't know the name of the new lightweight puffy that is the serious but serious Yeah. We use that a lot last week in Mexico and it was cold and we're layering it under our uncle Pa Grey's and uh it was a nice piece. Well yeah, good good layering piece, you know. And the Rockies at least where we are, it doesn't rain a ton and usually at least early elk season it's doesn't get too cold. So you know, it's nice to be able to have some light stuff that's gonna go in your pack if you goofed up on the weather call. You know, you wake up in the morning and it's like if you can see the stars, doesn't it can rain or can you know it can? Temperature can change and nothing worse than just saying how I'm going light because I don't want to, you know, fill up my put stuff in my backpack and then freezing your ass off, you know. So it definitely provides you with quite a bit of of uh, you know, no matter what the weather does, you should be pretty good for only a pound and a half between that and the and the shell stuff that think in your back pocket. Totally it might be an exaggerate one you showed me yesterday for sure, then I should get for servecasting. Was that the one that he that's the heavy duty one And we also make like a one that's a three and a half layer just full on like as as barely of a waterproof, breathable as you can get. You know, if it's gonna rain too much for that, you pretty much need to wear a rubber, you know, fishing style suit, but um discretion on that jest plus came up with the winning name. It's called It's got a mouth long hair mustache playing the piano Seek, which is an acronym for Southeast Alaska. Like that. Yeah, and you guys have gotten to wear that right, Yeah. I we're in um British Columbia this year, where it ain't more than it did not rain on that trip and it performed well. I can't remember what your honest one for getting the winning name. He hasn't been paid. I think a pair of socks or something showed up in the mail. Concluding thoughts, Give us an update on it. Give us an update on Hunt to Eat t shirts. Oh man, people were heckling Yanni last night about in Nevada one. Yeah, yeah, everybody, if I can touch on that for just a second. Everybody likes to ride into us and see me and say, how come there's no Kentucky Hunt Eat shirt. I'm like, well, because you're like the third person that's requested, so you can write, yeah, gather up some of your bodies. We're not asking for a couple of hundred, but even like ten to twenty, you know, and that that would really bring your bring your state to the higher you know, higher standing where you know it'll be next in line. But I think last time I said we have Pennsylvania and Alaska, California just came out. California's shirt is way sweet. Looks like their flags, says hunt EAT's got a pig on it. Do you think you'll eventually have all states? Oh? That's what I have in my mind right now. It is like one of the old old flags. It's got like six stars in a circle on it. You don't remember that sports Remember sports was guide, how the sports was guide catalogs like back in the eighties and stuff or nineties and just be pages and pages of T shirts be like like happiness is a warm gut pile, and it'd be like an Indian on a horse holding up a compound bone. It's like what if? And it was all those there's like all those shirts of like wolves howling and just like pages and pages and pages like get shirt with like an out house and then out house Joe Okina, your catlo was gonna be like that when you got all fifty states, I hope. So we're doing your new home state next, and then ten people from Washington, and then our our home state after that, Michigan. Yeah, yeah, there you go. You just need two more requests, you'll be there. We haven't. We have eight so far. I wouldn't do it now that we know, now, now that Ted Cruise has informed just that Helen has horrible, Um, what do you guys have over there? You guys have bad Oh, you guys have real bad values. Do you have real bad values? Yeah, Joe Bastard, I had no idea I heard. I had no idea what I heard, Ted Cruise, you got New York, New York values. I had no idea. Helen was so un American depraved. I think that all she thinks about. If I'm not mistaken, as you think about fashion in the media, maybe yeah, I think you think. Yeah, especially think if your father out there just like delivering the mail, and he's like fashion media, fashion media, like dudes like digging through the rubble of the World Trade Center, fashion media, fashion media. It's like, give me a raid man. Yeah, that's my concluding thought, Ken Miludaws, Helen's horrible. I just found out. Yeah, And in fact, some of the best people I've ever met in my entire life are also awful. And I had no idea that they have a bad that they have a bad value system based on where their work put them, and they're gonna seize Central Park taking it back there. Mean is yummy, and you just have to make sure you don't eat it undercut. I don't want to give a bad rap because people might hear this or here a little extra freak out and think that you know. No, no no, people don't listen to just a little bit. So this is the whole thing. They don't know all the bear nothing wrong. Bear like bear might even no. I guess I didn't eat the chicken nooses bear when you made it. You made the bear ham smoke bear ham. The probably had it just wasn't tested great. I did have one test. I did have one test negative one time. I forgot about that. All right. So this is part one here, here's the deal. This is a longer one than normal because this is this is part one of of of a two part shot show podcast. So this is gonna segue. Now just keep listening here and things are gonna change. It's gonna get real noise with all kinds of background noise, and there's gonna be a part two where we sit down and talk to some gun guys. Stay tuned. Hey, welcome to the Meat Eater Podcast. We're in uh Las Vegas, Nevada. This is the first time we've ever done one of these anywhere near this many people. You can kind of hear a bunch of background noise. Now we're at something called shot the Shot You guys even know what shots stands for? Shooting hunting an outdoor trade show. Oh I knew it must stand. Yeah, I've been here a number of times and I never picked up what it exactly stands for. But it's like if they when I when I was a little kid, we always had this dream that uh everyone that lived on the lake I grew up on with all away on vacation and we drain the lake and be able to go out there and see what was in the lake. I have a similar dream about Shot Show where I could have a private day where no one would be allowed in and I could just quietly stalk the aisles of Shot Show. Because it's so much stuff goes on here you cannot take it all in. It's just there's it's every thing you've ever heard of or thought about in terms of, uh, the hunting and shooting sports on one place. It's impossible to me. It seems to kind of like focusing on any single specific thing because there's just so much stuff going on, and you can really find out sort of the state of the world by coming down here. This is my third time, but I'm here with a couple of guys from this Outdoors. We have Bill Dermody, who Okay, you want to build, explain yourself what you do and everything like that. Justify my existence. Yeah, I'm not not marketing director for Savage Arms and Stevens. So basically within Vista the firearms product and the and the marketing revolving around that product. So this am I allowed to talk. So uh yeah, this outdoor is just um, you know, it's it's a it's an organization that the consumer doesn't really hear about. It's our parent company. But all these if you look around here, all these great brands, we really are one of the largest outdoor companies there is. So from Savage Firearms, Federal Premium, c c I, R, CBS, black Hawk, all these great outdoor brands and even something aren't here at the shot show. We're just we're just a big piece of this show here. And really, um, you know, from a standpoint of of me working on the gun portion of this, it's it's a real treat for me because not only do I have a not only to have the firearms line, everything that goes on in or around a gun is within his armed reach for me. Now and then you've been you've come to shops any times? Now? Uh my first one? So yeah, did you come into uh did you come into working in firearms too? Like? What's your background growing up? I means you grow up around shooting. Actually, I became a shooter as an adult. I I became I was a boy scout where I started shooting, And I grew up in a family where there there no guns in the home, and I was I'm the first generation shooter in in my home. And and I learned how to shoot at boy scout camp up in New Hampshire and came home from scant camp and wanted to buy a gun and my parents didn't so they didn't allow it. So I didn't buy my first firearm until I was in college. And now look at me, I've been in the industry This is the third different gun company for saying that I've worked for. I've kind of been typecast. I'm stuck now. I can't I couldn't go do anything else. And my parents now have been converted their life members of the n r A and then gun owners and shooters, and it's just, you know, life takes as neat twists and turns. But you know, think about all the other shows that happened in Las Vegas and where would you rather be? I mean, it beats the heck out of the humor apliance show or whatever they're doing across town. Right I could be talking about dishwashers and toasters all the week and not you know, this is where it's at. This is where the action is. A good buddy mine is over at the home builders thing going on right now, and he's really itching to try to find his way into this spot. Now, Jason, give us your low down, man. I'm Jason Nash. I'm the marketing director for our ammunition brands, so the most commonly known Federal Premium c C I Spear. We've got a number of different brands under our umbrella, and it's really exciting to this will be myt This is my thirteenth shot show, and I have to remind myself every year how lucky we are. And it doesn't take long to walk down the halls to realize how lucky we truly are to be involved in such a passionate industry. You know, for me, it all started with grouse hunting with my dad and uh, you know, getting out in the northern woods in Minnesota and chasing around these birds that were really hard to hit but challenged you and and really were exciting. Um. So being part of that is, like you said, it's it's a dream. Did you when you were growing up, did you think about how you wanted to stay in the uh you know, around hunting products and hunting equipment and that kind of stuff. No, I just wanted to hunt, go out. I just wanted to get out and and enjoy the outdoors, be outside and uh, spend time with friends and family. I didn't really think about it as a career. In fact, I didn't think it was probably an option. So the fact that that I was able to get into this industry and make a good career out of it has been fantastic. Yeah, when I was a kid, like all the guys that wanted to hunt fish all time. We didn't know about occupations. You like, little kids always wanta be fireman. We all want to be game wardens. Where I want to be a mountain man. Uh. But then they told me I was late for that. So everybody was like, I'll be a game word and I'll be uh, you know, like we want to be like a wildlife biologist. Everybody's always like struggling to try to find somebody to be in the outdoors. And then guys I know now that have done that grown up and have into like, you know, found like a livelihood in the outdoor industry. Um, very few of them would have been able to even they wouldn't have known what they were doing existed at the time. Yeah, oh yeah, so let's jump in now. I have over the years, I've been hunting off all with a Savage rifle, and I've owned Savage rifles going way back and and uh from I used to I used to be a fur trapper and I had one of the uh what I thought was a very early form of the old two twenty gauge over under they had the trap door. I don't even know if they still have, like that they had that aluminum plate model twice four was it had like aluminum plate you could slide a bunch of twenty two shells and a couple of twenty games shotgun shells into the stock with an aluminum plate on there. Yeah, we always had that and then had a lot of like growing up, always had Stephen's shotguns. And then I bought my first Savage, like my first new Savage rifle and I think two thousand nine, and it was like I grew up. My dad started me out shooting right handed. I was always weirdly ambidextrous as a kid, and he eventually realized I had a dominant left eye. Like if you're ever curious, like if you have a dominant right yar donant left eye? Yeah, just act like you're doing a one eye aim with your thumb, Like, so pick some object and you're gonna aim your thumb at it um. You'll find a lot of guys that shoot right handed. When you do that, test the wind up closing it right eye and wanting to look left eye. And my old man did that with me and realized I was left handed. So I had to relearn how to shoot a bow, re learn how to shoot a gun all left handed, but I did it all with right handed stuff because I never had anything that wasn't a hand me down firearm until I was in my thirties. I didn't own a left handed rifle until I was in my thirties. And when I did buy a left handed rifle, I bought a Savage Weather Warrior rifle, and I would shoot and immediately drop down, throw the rifle in too my other hand and try to work the bolt on my right hand. I had to totally relearn, you know, on a left handed firearm over the years I've owned. You know, I've owned and shot so many different guns, and I've had and I have and do on a handful of like very high end custom rifles that I would never really be in the situation to buy um if I didn't. You know, we're kind of the work I do and get stuff the way I get it, And so oftentimes guys are like, we'll talk about hunting and they'll be like, yeah, your guns five thousand dollars or six thousand dollars, And I was gonna be like, yeah, it is, but it doesn't. It's just that's the way I have and That's that I found so cool about hunting with Savage rifles and shooting with them is the fact that people can afford it, right, It's a good gun you can buy and out of the box they just shoot in a way I can't explain. Maybe you got. It's like we've now messed around, like just in recent months me be honestly sitting here off for real quiet, we've messed around. How many have we shot like out of the box, five or six, oh maybe ten big game rifles out of the box, shooting the box rifle with the box ammo and just shooting tight ask groups I mean, and shooting like submoa groups out of the box. And it's just nothing else I found. It's like that. I was talking to a buddy mine who works in the firearms industry and he was saying, Yeah, the reason that a lot of the custom guys get piste at Savage because Savage rifles just do what they wanted to do, what they're trying to do, but they do it for a tenth of the money. You know. You know, it's really interesting to say that that's what we're known for, is that lights out accuracy and and it's just that's that's our trademark. And it's interesting you say that about Gunsmith's because when we're looking to innovate and we're looking to come up with things like the accy trigger and and things that have really put us on the map like that, we've never looked to our competitors for inspiration on what to do next. We we looked at gunsmith's. What what is a gunsmith doing to a rifle to make it more accurate, to make it fit better, to make it, you know, and make it perform better. And then how can we do that on a factory basis? I mean, we can't glass bed and action. So we came up with the Akey stock, which is more of a drop in solution to glass bedding and and same thing as just you know, long ago, triggers were horrible. They were they were heavy and and and because the lawyers kind of one out at every gun company, but you gotta have a heavy trigger to be safe. So we came out with a gun with a trigger job that was safe. And so really those guys, as mad as they are with us, there are inspiration, you know, because everything they do is because a gun isn't performing the way it should so. If so, if if a gun smith can make it happen once, we can make it happen hundreds of thousands of times. If we're creative. We've figured out and figure out how to make a factory gun and shoot like a custom gun. And I'm sure there's a lot of people here that have had that can share the same experience you've had. I mean, just where they shot alongside a buddy that had a multi thousand dollar expensive gun and just hung right with him shooting them group for group, the expensive gun, the guns just shoot. There's a gun writer that I've always admired a lot um, Chuck Hawks and he and he was got one of the first guys I started reading about. It was really always celebrating, like, you know, just the unrivaled accuracy of coming out of the box with it. And what I like to buy is a lot of people come to me in there, you know, they'll ask you, like what I need to do to shoot this and shoot that kind of groups and um, in a way, I almost feel silly for in the last you know, the recent years, how much time I spent messing with the handloads and messing with guns, and I enjoy that kind of stuff. But it is like refreshing to be able to have something you just go out and tell people it's like gonna work, you know, flat out of the box. Um, when you can, you explain, like explain to things, Explain what an ACU trigger is, because I think that that's something that's not well understood. And when when he talks about a heavy train and light tuggar, like a lot of things. You'll buy a new rifle and it might have it might take like five pounds or seven pounds or even on something like a nine pound trigger pull. It means you have to apply obviously, like nine pounds of pressure to get the thing to go bang, and you lose all kinds of accuracy by exerting that amount of forest on it because you're manipulating, you're you know, you're moving the guns sideways when you do it. So explain with that how how that thing works, because that's kind of something I find it. Like a lot of guys who aren't familiar with it, we'll look at it. They'll be like, what the hell is that? Yeah, why does that matter? Yeah, So the ACCU trigger really addresses the weakest link in a firearm, which is the shooter. Right. We could do everything we can think of to make the rifle more accurate, but if the shooter can't tap into the mechanical accuracy of the firearm, it's no good. And it's like exactly what you said. If you have a heavy trigger, anybody can line up the crosshair on something, but how do you how do you fire that gun without disrupting that cross hair? And it takes a light trigger to be able to do that, be able to fire it without disrupting a cross here, well, how do you do that while being safe? So if you look at an ACU trigger, it's got a regular trigger and it's got a little blade in the middle of the trigger that we called the an acur release, and that that blocks the trigger. And the best way to explain, especially you know an audio where I can't make gestures in my hands or anything. But if you've ever fired a single action revolver, you know there's a half cock position and there's a full cock position. You can fire that gun from the full cock position. Um, And if you have that gun and cockton and and you drop it, it'll fall all the half cock right, So we have internally within an accu trigger that that blade blocks the trigger from accidentally discharging. So in order to have that light trigger, we have very minimal trigger and sere engagement to make that trigger light. But if you were to drop that gun, a loaded gun hard enough yet, you would hear a click, and that's the accue trigger falling to half cock. It's not you know, on a on a lesser gun, you're gonna hear a bang instead of a click. So it still has that light triggers here engagement, and it still sears off if it's treated harshly when it's cocked, but it adds to the safety into the system. So the science of a lighter, crisper trigger is is old science. The safety aspect of it catching itself and clicking instead of banging, that's that's the essence of the accue trigger, and that allows the shooter to tap into all that mechanical actually in the rifle. You know that that accutugger deal is one of the things that first drew me to it is because when we're out filming, we got a lot of activity going on or around you on a hunt. You know, we got like you got camera guys and people moving around. It's how it's like if you and your buddy or out, you kind of always know where everybody is, you know, But in that kind of situation, it's you know, like safety is always in my mind because you just it's just like harder to control. And I like that just that extra element, you know, of just feel better about it in those moments when you are ready to fire. It just like an extra level of control, And it just it's comforting to me, you know, And once you get used to I don't have any problem with it. So I wanna I want to go back to uh Mr Nash here. Can you talk a little bit about how you guys handle the ammunition into things? Yeah? Absolutely, I mean and and just like Bill talks about all the technology that goes into building a gun and building a better trigger, We've got a team of people back at the factory who are constantly looking to innovate ammunition and and give people more confidence when they're in the field. You know, sometimes ammunition is is kind of a last minute purchase decision. I'm going hunting, I forgot I got to pick up some ammo. But to have true success, you really need to think about the one thing that's going to touch the animal out of your gun and that and that's the bullet. I mean, with all the hunting that you've done, Um, you know how important it is because you're not always gonna have a perfect shot. The animal may turn, um, it may start walking from being in a in a stale position. So having a bullet that's built strong enough to withstand um bone, heavy tissue, not a perfect angle. Um, that's what we're we really focus on. And then of course putting it where you aim it, which is a combination of the right gun, the right preparation, and the right bullet. Yeah, that's interesting point you bring up, man, because I find it a conversation always had with people's. People are always talking about like like all the best case scenarios you know, and haven't been able to do quite a lot of big game hunting. I find it, uh, the best case scenarios don't happen quite as often as you'd like. And I think that people need to be better about what when the trying to select ammunition, type of what caliber they're gonna use, what types of distances they're comfortable shooting, and stop thinking about all these like perfect broadside right behind the shoulder situations and started asking yourself, well, what's gonna happen when things don't go exactly as I plan? And then I tooled up and fit it up for for those kinds of things. You know, I think it's like super easy. Yeah, if you can, if everything's perfect and you hit everything just right, sure you could. You know, you could be hunting big game with a you know, subpar stuff. But those things when things go south and go bad, which happens just a lot, man, And I've always trying to advocate the people to to to plan on that and and you know, stick with adequate calibers, stick with good ammunition, practice a lot of restraints on shots you're gonna take because you're think you're gonna make always factor. And like when things are gonna go bad, do you guys find like when you're building Ammo, do you somehow, Taylor you'r amal to your own brand of rifles? I mean, like when you're building you old the federal premium stuff, taking like this's gonna shoot great out of a Savage rifle. Is that's what you think about? Well, as closely as we work with Savage, and we've had a couple of recent innovations that made from the Savage side, and we've partnered with them on the A seventeen UM and some other guns that where we can truly custom fit to work perfectly out of that platform. So that's a great advantage of being part of the same you know, family of seventeen Yeah, exactly. But but we also want to make sure that if people happen to be crazy and not shoot a savage, UM, it's not the whole market. It's not the whole market. So so we got to make sure that we take all the most popular gun platforms out there and test our products in those platforms also so that we know that we've got the best quality product out there that's gonna perform no matter what platform you choose. But yeah, have having these guys part of the same family has been great because we can look forward and say, all right, how can we better meet the needs of hunters and shooters going ahead, and and how can we partner on that? You know what I asked you one last quick thing? Here are they you know, like, is the AMMO shortage thing? Like is it done now? Kind of in your guys mind? Well, I mean, like what was it well. Obviously, rim fire is a question we get asked about a lot, right, and um, it's a popular caliber for people getting started in the sport. They're more and more great platforms out there to shoot from. UM And when you think about it, used to be that you could only shoot maybe ten rounds out of a clip. Now there are clips out there that whole thirty fifty. They're different. Are style platforms available for twenty two And let's face it's fun to shoot right for a new shooter. It's not intimidating because there's not a lot of recoil UM And so there's a combination of factors. It's it's popularity, it's more people coming into the sport, and um, there's also some people that are stuffing it in their basements. We know that too. You know, in a way it became a self perpetuating thing because I always just took for grand Land. Like I think of the real shortage of twenty two shells that was going on, It felt like, let me back up, because I always took for grand When you just wanted some of you bought them, right, so you buy fifty of them or buy a thing of them, and then one day someone's like, oh, you know, there's it's hard to find. It prompted me to start doing the like making the problem worse by responding to that by problem, like by getting it. You know. So when people say like, oh, it's limited to two boxes and I only wanted one, I'd be like, oh, there by two. So pretty soon I had massive amounts of the stuff laying around because it was like this self feeding thing, you know where I think that in some ways that kind of prompting along. But you guys had to get this pounded with questions about stuff like that. We did absolutely, and you know, it's it's tough because you want to have demand for your product, but you also don't want people to be dissatisfied because they can't get it. So we you know, we're a hundred percent committed to building more products. Federal and c c I are are kicking out more rim fire product than we ever have and and we're confident that it's going to be more readily available and I think we're seeing that already. Um So, but it's been an interesting time. A man, does anybody have uh, who who has any We got a question that would be, uh, they want to ask right now, anyone if Now, we got a bunch of people have come in on like social media with questions. I thought I would stick some of to you guys. Yeah, anyone one you'd like in anyway? Have you seen the question pick some out? Has any we got anything? Go ahead? Like six millimeters six? Yeah, restate the question to if you would that's a gun in an animal question? Right? Yeah? So he asked about the popularity of six millimeter and six point five and yeah, we're seeing that absolutely, and we've actually introduced a couple of new loads in our American Eagle product line in Federal. So we're we're excited to expanded to meet the demand of that platform. It's a very accurate um caliber and we're we're excited to offer more options. You know, when that someone rolled in and I've heard that, I've struggled with because I don't fully understand it is when it comes to like when you get a Brandy rifle out of the box, everybody's got a different theory about the breaking process and the cleaning process. Like some guys be like shoot it once, clean it, shoot it twice, clean it, shoot three times, clean it, until you're up to ten times. Some guys are like, I shoot it, I clean it, never clean it again. I mean, all these different versions on it, and you're make a game time decision just by like putting a passion and seeing what looks at what's your recommendation on someone with a brand new thing out of the box, Like he takes it out of the box, what should be his regimen? And then on top of that, once that breaking processes to however you define the end of it, what is your recommendation on like cleaning the board. It's funny. I got a guy right here in the booth. His name is stand Pate. He's a He's competes in F class, which is a thousand yard competition, multiple time national Champion, World Champion F Class shooter, and I was I was staying alongside him one year at the n r A show and somebody asking that exact same question, and his answer was, I just take him on, shoot him. Yeah, you know, you'll you'll get better accuracy out of a clean boar than you will out of a dirty boar. But as far as what prep it needs to achieve that maximum accuracy, we just really haven't seen anything definitive that shows us to any process one or the other has any effect on the long term accuracy of that product. The way it's broken in just that the you know, after it's broken in, however it's broken in. Clean guns is gonna shoot better than a dirty gun. Yeah, I've got guys, uh who you know say that they clean every twenty rounds. Guys say they clean every thousand. You're tipping more in the other tipping in the ladder direction. I mean, that's an extreme but I hate cleaning guns. So and I'm I'm not a good enough shooter that the difference between clean board dirty board really affects me that much because you have to have the ability to tapp into that extra beta accuracy. But yeah, you know, it really depends on that. You know what, copper filing is an issue, and copper filing does contribute to opening up the groups. So, and that's different by load, right, if you're shooting a really hot, really fast, it's gonna foul more, where some of these lower pressure coroptions they don't foul as much. So I think you just need to kind of work out your process and monitor your own accuracy. And but me personally, I'm not cleaning anymore than I have to. Here's no we get a lot from people, is uh. Guy wondered about someone who's mentioned copper filing. Guy wondered about, you know, copper versus lead ammo? So what what I've done in my own person long as I tended to use like you know what you call non toxic or solid monolithic stuff in places where like in California where have the condo recovery area, I've used it there, but I find it more and more guys, like a lot of guys just who are looking for just performance and ballistics, you know, are going now and shooting copper. How much do you see, like when you look at the the whole realm of people buying Aima, how much you see that transition happening? How much is it just because I hang out with guys who kind of obsessed about this stuff a lot? Well, we definitely are seeing more popularity. We've we've added trophy copper to our premium line of products and uh introduced here at the Shot Show. We've got a new one power shot copper that's more of a mid priced copper bullet for those who want to shoot it. Um. You know what we've always been about is offering as many options for people as possible for those who want to shoot or have to shoot, uh, certain types of bullet construction, we have that capability, um, and others who who are tried and true lead bullet guys can shoot those two and and the key for us as we we push weight retention on bullets. So when when you're hunting, shooting big game, fusion is our our deer hunting ammunition that's got it's a bonded process fuse jacket to the core that holds together really well so you don't get a lot of fragmentation. Um. So we're again technologically advanced ammunition and options for everybody. And copper bullets shoot really well too. I mean we you can get some great accuracy out of them. But but do you find that that's like a fast growing segment. It is gaining popularity. Um, We've we've seen some good acceptance of our trophy copper line, but there's always gonna be a market for for the lead core bullets. Also. Yeah, I think in some ways, like a lot of that comes with what you're familiar with and um, yeah, man, just like you know, like like the bonded lead stuff. I just have always just trusted it and used it, just had great results hunting with it. You know, um, what else you got any more good ones? I'll be on time. Man, we're getting kind of overtime. You know, we've still got thirty minutes. Oh no, no for this portion. Oh um. I like the budget versus uh match grade or hunting loads if they want to touch on that. Yeah, so here's the guys, like, can you discuss the round to round performance of practice or budget am o versus match grade or hunting loads? You want to take that one on well, as Bill can attest to and and a lot of people. Obviously, it depends on the gun. You know, different guns like different bullet styles, different grain weights. So we always encourage people to try a number of different bullets, another number of different products and see what works best. But um, you know, we we pride ourselves on making quality ammunition no matter the price point. But you get better features. It's like buying a luxury vehicle. You get leather seats, you get a moon roof, you get heated seats if you're if you're in the north. Um, but you know it's really you get what you pay for. And what you pay for with top quality premium ammunition is better accuracy, more stringent ality control, and then you also get features like on our trophy bonded tip product, you get a boat tail that in a in a tip that increase the ballistic performance of it. And you also get weight retention so that if you do happen to hit the shoulder bone when you're trying to to hit the vitals right behind it, it's gonna pass through and it's gonna hit the vitals. So you well, you don't want to have happen, is uh, you know, if you're shooting a trophy of a lifetime, buy a cheaper AMMO and have it fail on you. Just to kind of pile on what Jason said. Here, I'm the gun guy. I'll tell you straight up, don't put crap AMMO in your Savage rifle. You will you will not be impressed. Um, you know, and sometimes you know, from a marketing standpoint, we want to trouble with that because we everywhere we go we say accuracy, accuracy, accuracy, and when we talk about the one shot, one kill and all that, and then every one while not a lot, every one while send a gun back and say this gun isn't accurate, it's not grouping whale. And you know, say they send at three oh weight, I know that, I know the load. They're gonna test that customer's rifle. I know what they're gonna shoot, uh grain Federal Gold medal to see if that's an accurate rifle and our service Problemill shoot it and we'll send a gun back to the guy with a target and go, you got an m O a gun here at shot point eight, you know, And and they got well, I want to shoot like that with the crap amo. It's just not the way it works, you know. And I'll tell you, as a gun guy, you know if you you will not be satisfied with your rifle if you if you don't put good quality AMMO in it. Um from an accuracy standpoint and also from a just a terminal standpoint, I've never killed a single deer with a rifle. I've killed everyone with a bullet, all right. So I think of all the expense you go through a hunting licenses and travel and all that, you know, at the least expensive part of your trip is going to determine your success or failure of that trip. Just as much as the expensive part. So you know, don't don't spend all that money on a savage and a nice scope and all that, and then you'll practice with the cheaper amo. Fine, but you know, don't you know? And I don't. I'm not a bullistician, you know, I don't. I don't you know all those deer I killed and what would have happened if I had shot cheaper ram a lot of them, I don't know. I don't want to know. I don't want to leave that to chance. I've personally inject enough variables into that equation through my own lack of skill that I just want to cross that off a listen, not worry about it. Yeah, that that's That's a good point, mate, because like all the shooting I do, and some of them a recreational shooter, but all the shooting that I do is basically like inspired by the fact that I'm going honey, you know, So I'm like I spent a lot of time at the range. I'm like experimenting with things, seeing how things work. I'm never looking for just to buy some case of subgrade dirty stuff that I can run through my things, because to me, that's not adding to my knowledge of my tool. You know, it's not adding my knowledge of what I'm capable of doing. But I do think a good thing for guys who are trying to mess around the rifle and find out is my rifle up to the job or not? As an accurate not you gotta shoot a handful of things. Just try a couple of different things from a company you trust, and and and see, because there can be a radical difference, even right down to shooting twenty two is just different weights. You know, on you might try like a thirty six grain, thirty eight grain, different multiplosities and you get huge differences some guns. It's it's idiosyncratic. Some guns just shoot them something's better than others. And you really without trying three or four different things, just small differences. I mean, like you know, bullet weight stuff like that. You really have no idea what your thing is capable of. Because I've seen groups shrink out from three inch groups down to one inch groups just by going from one box Ammo to another box Ammo. And it's something I think a lot of guys overlook or they just like buy some stuff at the store. I have no idea what they're doing. Go out shoot was like this thing, don't shoot, you don't know, you don't know what till you get in there. All right, Uh yeahnny concluding thought I could add to that a little bit, you know, preparing for our hunt last week we went down to Mexico to hunt cous deer and uh, I was shooting a one ten and in two seventy and you guys sent me. I think, uh, your ballistic tips, um, the nozzle, ballistic tips, the um, the trophy Bonded, and the Sierra the King Yeah, the game King or bonded Barry Clawing, Sierra game King. Yeah. All three of them shot like right at an inch, but the trophy bonded shot like three quarters, you know, and that was three three groups of each you know. So I was like, wow, this is great, you know, and I really got to test it all, which was which was awesome. But um yeah, that's my concluding thought on it. On The last question for you that I saw in there that I think everybody would like to know is if you could just hunt with one rifle right now, what would it be for one caliber? Yeah? I get asked it all the time. Man, It's such a hard question to answer. Um, right now, I've been doing a lot of hunt with with the with the two seventy, so the Savage Weather Warrior in the two seventy Model one sixteen. It's just I don't mean it's so much. It comes down it's like what you know and what you're familiar with. It's just something that it I just have shot a lot and I just know and I'm comfortable with it. Um. I think that this is a few large measure by gun writers and other people. I think there's so much noise out there where people are arguing about the supremacy of of different calibers. It for real world hunting applications are almost indistinguishable, different attributes of them. Uh So, I'm kind of like I realized now, I'm kind of like a you know, like I'm an old curmudgeony guy to still have it to seventy and I have not ventured out. I owned many calibers, but just like something I almost like because I feel like it's like, uh, you know, it's like having a It's like having a campfire. It's like this old comfortable thing that I know well and I have great luck with it. Man if I but if I had to own one if I just like hunt, because I own a wide variety of things, everything from moves down to have alina, I would probably if I just had to have one for real, it's probably like a you know, something in the line of a three mag just something to be like kind of a little bit heavy, you know, a little bit heavy for some applications, maybe a tad in some people's minds, tad life for other applications. That would be my one sweet spot thing right now. Like my hunting arsenal is my two seventy and then with that I shoot you know, one grain bullets. Then I have a thirty caliber rifle that I got that I could shoot one eighties and two d grain bullets for big Alaska stuff. And I feel pretty covered. Concluding thoughts to nice quiver, I mean to seventies been proven for for years and and it speaks again to the quality of the bullet. If you're shooting a trophy bonded tip but not as a partition fusion, and you put the shot in the right spot, that's gonna do the job. And I like to seventy two. I've got a two seventies short mag and of course the thirty six is also a favorite. Know where I'm from and where everybody's from. Yeah, when you say how's the favorite you're from, what, Like I grew up in Michigan, it would be that there was a day and I was very young when I happened when everybody had a thirty thirty. It was like it was like, oh yeah, it's a brush gun. And it was like one day you woke up and everybody in the world shot the thirty ot six. You know, it was just like this thing that happened overnight. Janice is still yeah I shot takes a long Yeah, but it was just like this there's so much regionality to it, and you talk to other guys. I got friends who, you know, brought up in other states. You never touched it. It's just like you had like your region and the guys and your region kind of like spread these little things. I think where that's all that, you know, misinformation and just like ancestral stuff comes from where you just like have these ideas that you're familiar with. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Bill, you got some concluding thoughts. Yeah, I think for me personally, it just especially when hunting, it just comes down to putting in a time on preparation. You know, like you said, it's what you're comfortable with. What you're not gonna be comfortable with something you don't spend time with. So spend some time I'm on the range with your rifle. Spend some time shooting different loads of ammunition so you know your confident that the particular load that you selected is the one that's gonna perform. Be comfortable with your optic, be comfortable with all your gear. For me, I'm just maybe I'm just too simple minded. I can't think about all that stuff when I got it, you know, an animal in front of me. I just I just wanted all that stuff off the list. I don't want to worry about it, and I don't worry about it when I put the time in. Yeah. Man, that's a good point. And it's something that I find myself kind of pound my head and about is there's so many guys out there, and you know, you might just hunt like a couple of days a year. And I feel like even if that's the case, like if that's all your schedule has allout, you need to spend more time with your equipment. I think it's like you have an obligation to yourself, You have obligation to others, You have obligation of the animal, just to get to understand what it is it's going on, how this stuff works. It's an investment, man. And even for the two day a year a hunter, you gotta tab I think you almost gotta have like an annual where we were like a you know, a year round approach to thinking about your kit, thinking about your gear, and thinking about what you're gonna do. Alright, with that, wrap up this part, um me eet your podcast to the next time. Except coming at it from shot show not open to the public, so I can't just say come, you gotta be. You gotta find a way to finagle your way in, uh through some kind of innge. We just encourage that these guys that's coming from me find a way to finage your way in and come and see what's going on in the the outdoor hunting and and and shooting worlds. All right, until next time,

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