00:00:00 Speaker 1: Oh, this is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening. Don't meet e podcast. You can't predict anything, all right. We're recording from the I seventy corridor in central Colorado? Is that cool? Yan? That's cool? Yeah, we're in a place that that that. Yanni is extremely nervous that someone will suss out where we are. I feel like they could look up jannat Pitels and just figure it out. Yeah, but don't tell him. Actually, he'll getting nervous, sort of very secret location on the I seventy corridor and um, you call through. You're still comfortable? Yeah? Do you really feel like it counts his I s any corridor too? Because I feel like we're a little far away from all Right, here's here's a hunt story for you. Now. The hunt story starts out with me. The prelude is me getting the big old buck. How'd you like that, Brody? When I got that buck, that was well, Brody liked it. I liked it a whole lot. Then a couple of days later, Uh, we go out too to uh try to find a buck for Yanni. And I can't tell you that where we were and go out and what happened. First we glassed up some doughs mm hmm. Then we're also looking for an elk for you looking for an elk. And then Yanni glasses up a buck coming kind of down a cross below us. We're up on a perch looking down into some aspen groves and big meadows. And you said you first know something's wrong with it. Yeah, Like his face just looks gnarly. His face in the eights, he couldn't really tell. Turns out as the buckets closer. He's got one regular antler, and he's got one antler that is laid down. If I remembering this correctly, if I saw what I think I saw, his auntler was sort of laying down across the bridge of his nose and in the hook of the main beam was wrapping down around under his chin. Mm hmm. Now I have seen in the past, I've seen bucks that had that would mess up their pedicles. So the part of a deer, like the skull of the deer, the thing that the that the antler protrudes from when it grows every year, is called the pedicle. And I seem to hear that have damaged their pedicles or just have a squirrely ant And I saw I remember seeing one where the antler grew down and then punched out the deer's eye. You haven't seen that, Yeah, well, my old man used to when I was a little kid. My old man was the was the local dude who scored for Pope and Young and boot and Crockett whatnot. So we got all a man or a deer over at our house to look at. And so I saw this buck. I thought it was a crazy, squirty looking buck rack and I gold, yeah, I said, shoot, it's a buck of a lifetime. Then we noticed that he was gimpy and had a very bad limp. And I think what happened to that poor buck was? I think that uhbody got hit by a car. Yeah, the I seventy seventy corridor, which we weren't terribly far from that, were the uh he got really beat up in a fight, or he got in a fight and then got locked horns in the buck the buck broke his skull plate, punched him in the back leg real hard, and he so so he crawls up into this little aspen grove, and I was thinking he'll pop out the other side and then Yanni's gonna take a crack at him. But he never emerged from the aspen grove. We made a plan that we would later in the day go over and jump him out of there and assess just how bad a shape he was in. If you I've done this in the past, I shouldn't admit this because because you could, it's against the law. I have in the past been out hunting and euthanized deer that uh that I encountered, but he didn't him, but didn't tag him. One time I was on a little t island and we uh found a deer that had been hamstrung by coyotes or something, and it was, I mean, it was mostly dead, but not all the way dead, way beyond salvage, oh, I mean was Yeah, it was a mess. It was a pathetic mass um and we we helped it along to where I was headed. And the two times I found deer that had been had poor shot placement on the part of some other hunter and they were in in in in bad, bad shape now. But yeah, if you if you youthanize deer, you gotta put a tag on. When I was a little kid, I remember deer swam. Two times deer swam our leg and got hung up in fences, and one time deer broke. It's like, we didn't go over there and and and we called a game warden or a cop or something. The cop came out and shot the deer and said that you cannot shoot that deer. You had that happen, Brodie, Yeah, totally did it in my backyard. Basically called the Division Wildlife. Said there's a deer with a busted back leg. It's in really rough shape. Game warden came over and wouldn't shoot it because it was in a in a neighborhood. Basically said I can't kill this deer safely. What's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. And what happened is that year probably got killed by a dog or you know something. When I was a little kid, we were coming back from tracking a deer and I remember it was one in the morning and my day was driving the nineteen seventy nine jeep Grand Cherokee and he hit a deer. So we're coming back from track of deer and he didn't we didn't find he hits the deer gets out and throws the deer up into the back of the jeep Grand Cherokee. I'm riding shotgun and my two brothers are in the bench seat in the back. We started down the road and also my brothers are screaming because the deer is now standing up in the back of the jeep Grand Cherokee. Remember, oh man pull over the side of the road, dragged the deer out of the jeep Grand Cherokee, fully alive, cut its throat, loaded the back of the jeep Grand Cheroke, and we proceeded on our way home. And I think the next day, if I remember right, it's a long time ago, he notified the police and they brought him over a permit for it. Well, Montana recently the set up something where if you you hit game, you can take it. And you know that's another law I broke a whole bunch of times. Is it in Montana you weren't allowed to have road kill. Yeah, now though recently the last couple of years you can. Yeah, non trophy games, so you can't keep road kill sheet, but that you keep deer and out. Maybe that if it's got horns, you gotta report it. Yeah, I think either way I actually should. I used to break that law and kind of half hope that I would get caught because I wanted to go to a judge. I thought it'd be fun if the fine wasn't that bad. I thought it'd be fun to go into court and be like, yes, I am guilty of salvaging. Yeah, making dear, that's some guy in front of me hit with a car and it would otherwise wind up rotting on the side of the road or wind up in a hand phil. So here I am confessing my guilt. Yeah, Like, is this really a big problem? I picked up a turkey off the road this couple of winners ago. Is it legally? I don't know. Colorado, I have no idea. I know guys put big bumper guards on their trucks. So now in Montana with the new rule, so now they go out at night and they'll mom down pick up. You know people who purposefully go out and mow down, Well, they put a big bumper so they can mom down. Maybe they don't go out and plan, they don't need to just speed up and they won't swerve for do they want it? For what reason? They'll eat it? Really, But if you're hitting them that hard, Like I mean, I was just saying that, you know, there's people out there that, Yeah, the percentage of deer they get hit by cars that are actually edible is you know whatever, Like, yeah, yeah, I had a deer on a motorcycle once. Anything that turned out for you, I mean I got beat up. We couldn't find the deer. But yeah, it's not really relevant, I guess. But so what happens with this book. Here's why we didn't make it back to the UK. This is something I've been really eager to talk about because I want to hear Yanni's side of this, because all stories have two sides. So we walk a few miles. How many miles have we walked to where we took a nap was probably close. So we walked about four miles into the mountains. The day gets hot ish, you kind of get the feeling like you're in that that transitional zone whereas not the morning hunt, it's not the evening hunt. It's kind of time to regroup, have a snack, take a little nap. I lay down to take a little nappy and it wasn't perfect because the ground I was laying out was frozen into cold kept creeping up into my body. But as I was doing this, Yanni's like, wants to go over and glass into the next bowl. Yeah. I had a hot ticket in my pocket, so I couldn't take a nap. I was like, well, I counters a horseman who is smoking a joint. The horseman not quiet. He was about to stop correcting me. You're gonna get to tell your version. Well, no, but you're telling my version. You told him I told you as you approached him he hid a quote spliff. Yeah he did, but he wasn't smoking it. Okay, fixing the smoker joint encounters the guy fixing the smoker joint. The guy uh starts out by inviting Yanni to come over and look at a pistol that he has hidden under a branch. Is that correct? Let me just say, you can a story, but you can't add things to my story. I haven't added anything you told me. He invited you over a pistol that he had hidden under a branch. I'm going back. I'm the saying, just remember which is legal in Colorado. It's legal. And Yanni really admires this guy because because of everything I'm gonna tell about the fella is has a we explained a spliff a joint old marijuana. Say so so now, Johnny Cochrane here is saying he wasn't actually smoking. He was just handling a joint, handling a joint. Yeah, he I'm guessing it was. It was nappy time all across the Elk Mountains of Colorado. You had just fallen asleep. And at the same time I walked in the cabin's door, and he was a little little cabin up here, like a little shelter. He was literally about to fired up, probably have a little lunch and taken out. Tells Uh, invites Yoanny to coming examine a pistol. He's got hitten under a branch. Tells Yanni he's recently been robbed up there on the mountain. Tells Yannie that he had recently encountered some hippies who were thrown in rocks at a deer to scare it away. He couple days later killed the deer, the deer having to be a tame deer named Fred. Uh tells Yanni he has he's been hunting up here on a rented horse for some number of days, has not seen a single elk in those days. He has a homemade coat on. Yanni explained that he had a shirt that he's sow the bottom half of a parka onto which you ain't like that shirt a lot, and uh, says the young Listen, You're welcome to hunt up on this mountain all you want, but let me tell you about a magical He didn't use the word magical. A timber buck so big that you could use its antlers as a swing set, and a person with a large posterior or could still sit inside of it, tells Yannie that it's even though Yann's walcome to stay on the mountain, he just needs to follow the trail down towards the trailhead. Along the way, he will encounter twenty does in a land feature that he refers to as the doe condo and a completely different drainage different he will there wait here, not the dreams we came up. It was a different. We had to go down so so go down there. You'll find a doe condo. You'll know you're there. And the buck, he explains, the eye. Don't think it looks like a normal buck, because it's it's And he found a bush to show Yannie what the color of the buck was to demonstrate, so Yanni even know Aust told him. Another identifying feature of this book is that it will not stop walking a so then up to that point no one had seen the buck, had seen it standing, never stopped, and has peculiar corded antlers. So Yanna reports this to me and I have a little chuckle about it, like it's funny. But then Yanna then spends the rest of his day walking up and down the trail. And we spoke to first a couple of fellows who come through our mountain bikes. Then we spoke to a couple of ladies who come through our mountain bikes. Then we spoke to a fella come walking up the trail on a on a pleasure hike. And we spoke to uh Gale with a nose Arry Income walking up the trail on a pleasure hike. Re spoke to the fellow who was on the pleasure hike. A while later, the horseman who clued us in on the mystery buck, somehow is coming back up the trail yelling at with his vest half on. He had a vessel with one arm on, and I heard and we heard him yell at the at the horse that he rented. Um, he yelled, get up there, you're starting to piss me off, and he wrote by on. Three more mountain bikers rode on. He's wear headphones, headphones, got headphones on the ear protection headphones. Um. Three more mountain bikers come zooming through, and Yanni still stays still is hunting that trail, walking up and down that trail, waiting for the mystery timber buck, black horn, black horn. Okay, that was my impression. Now you give your version of how we spent our day yesterday. Although I get we forgot about the he killed six elk, that's why he has that. Yanni was trying to figure out he carrying the pistol because he's been opped or what, and he goes, oh no, when I'm riding my horse, oftentimes I'll get into a situation where a bull will come streaking across the trail and I pulled out, and I'm like, bay, I'm blame, I'm blame, and I've killed six like that. Now. We later learned that this fella had reported to someone else that he had seen seventeen olk that day. When you go ahead and hunt here, all you want, but you might be interested to know about a mysterious timber buck that has to be lurking down on Yonder Mountain bike trail a ways away from where he was. And I the moral of this story, it's a story of love. There's no other explanation of why I would have spent the day with Yannie if I didn't love him. Love conquers. Oh, there's logic and there's love, and that was love. I appreciate that that I stat on that trail. I mean, it's fun when we socialized with all manner of people coming and going, but it was a frustrating day of hunting. Mm hmmm, now what what what? How how do you? How do you what? What? What do you? How would you describe our day? This is what i'n't anxiously awaiting to hear. Well, I think that up until the point of you know, after the basis, after the morning hunt and the nap, it's all the same. And then when I leave you, so so my story was correct up till I fell asleep. Yeah, I just feel like you just left thousand parts. Um. So when I walk up to the cabin, the guy has been successful. I see, I see, I see me hanging. He killed a deer. Yeah, they killed a couple of deer. Frank I told that he killed Fred, the deer that the hippies tried to scare away. Yeah, so he's got me. I didn't leave that out. He's got He went out there with the giant crew of other hunters and they had like six or seven people out there to start the season off with. He's the last guy remained because it was hot and we were like, we're like on day probably seven of a nine day season, so pretty shitty season really for most hunting conditions, you know, I mean we we battled through it. It's for someone to basically camp out for seven days. I'm like, yeah, this guy's getting after it. Yeah, so um as, I'm like seeing him tuck away is a little split off, the kind of you know, it doesn't want to show me up. On the above the door, there's a note. I don't remember the note. Yeah, but this the But the note doesn't have any effect on on how silly that day, how silly our hunt plan was. The note doesn't Is it gonna make the listener be like, oh yeah that was a hot tip. No, I just feel like it gives a little character background on on who this guy is and why he's up there and why he's like he's just had a bad week. You imagine, what do you imagine I'm trying to say with the story that I'm telling, we were imagining what you were trying to say all day long. Well, I'm trying to. I mean, I glass the hillside. You guys are on, so I'm thinking, all right, they're one around. It's big. Potentially there's animals there, but it's multi multi user experience over there. I mean, I'm glass, But what are you you're saying basically the story? What's the funny part of the story that basically you went on like an uh nostalgic hike with the honest I forgot. I forgot to even get into that part. Turns out, the first time he ever went out cunning by himself, some guy wasn't even I wasn't. Some guy had sent him up that creek, so and the whole thing, And I'm like, why in the world are you walking up and down this trail waiting for this mythic timber buck to come out. It's so big that a large bottomed person could use it as a swing set, and it turns out that he was on some weird, strange memory lane. I don't think that's strange, that's natural, that's normal. Did you You also forgot about right before we actually put our packs on started hiking down the mountain. I looked at you, said, you know what, I don't care if it's timber box or one sixty bucks. I said, I feel like there's some doughs around here. He killed a dough or he killed the buck. His buddy killed a dough There's some doughs around here. It's November twelve. Ort like, we need to find some doughs. I'm kind of excited. You know, now, this area it's it's like a it's it's a small, very very small drainage. It it doesn't I mean, the old drainage might only go how long, a couple of miles, how many animals. Let's talk about that before you get too fired up about this spot. I what are you doing? Carrots out of here. I know that he's done, like I know it seems odd, but I also know that Janice has and his buddies and his brother and the whole crew people have killed a pile of elk on that mountain and the drainage you walked down in the afternoon. I've killed a bunch of elk up there too. Yes, one time Joanna said, if Brody had to kill an elk and he only had one spot to go to, that's where that. I can't say the name of the drainage, but just the drainage you came out in the evening, random creek. Yeah, and be honest, was probably right. Like if I if you were like, dude, you've got a day to killing out, where are you gonna go? You would go up there and I would not go in where you went, like the mountain bike. No no, no, no no, no no no. I wouldn't go in where you went. I would go in where you came out. And listen again, we're the whole multi recreational thing is happening because we're dealing with like this weird like you know late you know, middle of November, where the highs are, you know, sixty seventy degrees. Yeah, normally it's two ft of snow in there. There's a lot of people else besides hunters. There's a lot of people up there that are waiting around to go skiing. That would normally never be there this time of year. Yeah, let's talk about me like you're trying to you got you, guys, I just I'm not trying to prove, just to try to get a better understanding of what in the world we were doing. You were going on one of your honest is multi drainage tours, which is he's famous for walk about a little like a little memory, little no high likelihood for some animal. Here's the Here's the point I was trying to make when I was when I was asked, when I was asking what the point I was trying to make was trying you were supposed to give was man, you wouldn't guess the NICT was so gullible for hunting intel. Yeah, he was so gullible as to think that he was getting a hot tip and not that he was getting sent packing out of an area the develop was trying to hunt by scent packing by means of an outlandish story. It's the only thing I didn't understand is you guys went way past where is. He told us a land feature that didn't exist, but he did find those at the Dope condo. No, we never identified the Dope condo and Yeah, we saw a dough on twin bonds. You met some nice people. Story, my story failed story. You think you know a guy and then you learned that he's completely gullible and doesn't know when he's having his chain? Here, can I have a closing thought on the whole thing? Um, if nothing else came from my interaction with him other than we packed up and hunted, I at least hunted my way down that hill in a very keen like elevated hunting sense. Whether it was because the timber box or seeing dose or whatever, but I took a very serious approach to the whole rest of the day. That is what gets animals killed and gets animals and freezes when you hunt like that, when you're like the day is over, it's hot. We got hikers and bikers and let's get to and you're like, oh my god, look at that thing. No, you can't see fifty We were in thick aspens. You can't see fifty yards in any direction. You hate aspens, now, I kind of do. I can't see fifty yards in a direction NonStop pedestrian traffic, and we're like waiting for uh, a giant or timber buck, black corn. I told you I'd be happy with any buck coming around. I was like, I feel like there's some deer around. But it was cool ship you came down through gorgeous forgot how beautiful that place? This thing I want to talk about that's been asked your clothing thoughts. Sorry, that's how you get Meanwhile, I'm over there trying to kill a buck while you guys are taking a tour of the country. And you guys were in and what I would consider to be an actual hunt spot with with the occasional it's what makes our hunt spots the Brody and I share here good. It really does. They're hard hunting spots and I'm glad that people are frustrated by them and can't always understand them. And you know, or never maybe never come back and hunt him again. I'll be hunting him again. You know. Hey, there's some of your spots I'll hunt for the rest of my life. You won't. And I had a lot of friends are gonna like hunt and then when I'm laying off the map my bodies, I'm gonna be like, this is where this is. Probably there's a timber bucking air. If you're feeling social go to this place. You want to meet some lades. No, okay, So I want to change the subject um. The thing we get asked about, like emails come in and people ask questions. And one thing I think that comes up parnially, it comes up often is the issue of physical fitness, hunting based physical fitness. You know what I'm talking about? Yes, sir? Now has everyone in here? Has everyone? You're done yoga a couple of times? How many? Like paid for it twice? But I stretched a lot, which I feel like yoga stretch. But you've paid, You've paid the stretch. No, I respect yoga. Good, good answer. And there are thousand times been doing it since I was eighteen, which back that not a lot of dudes doing the yoga. So you're establishing that you were doing yoga before yoga was cool, but you were doing it to meet chicks, and you admitted that you took that's you said you did it to me back battle. I mean, there were some nice looking ladies doing the yoga back then, but now that's not the place. A lot of guys doing yoga. I mean generally half the classes that I'm in, I mean half the class as men. Yeah, nearly half. I've been to yoga four times, so I have like a level of expertise about on the subject. You're speaking like, you're no my wife either. My wife likes to go. We have date nights and my wife likes to go that she she wants me to go with her to yoga and she wants me then we go to dinner. So four times. We do other things too, But this is one of the things in our repertoire. Four times we've gone. Now where she goes, it's one four degrees in the room, so it's how does ship? Yeah, like tropical, tropical dark, mostly dark. Yeah, you go in there, it's harming four degrees everybody, you lay down, you're already. You don't have anything, euts for my swim trunks. You don't have any shoes, pants, nothing, just I I going west slim trunks and you lay down on a mat and they kind of build you up, they invite you to, They build you in a way. That doesn't work for me, but I think it works for some people where they they invite you to, they want you to. They like want you to thank yourself for going to yoga. That's not true. Well, I'm not into that part of it, but they do. But out the one man, there's like it's like flavors, ice cream, yoga like that, you know, but I'm talking about the place everybody. My wife does a lot of different flavors and some are more spiritual based, some are pretty just physical. Yeah. So they tell you to build you up. They tell you they're like, they're like, uh, trying to think of an example. No, no, this is be honest, this is like something they would actually say. They say, you know, leave the world, be be the change the world will be waiting for you. Yeah, you owe it to the people in your life who rely on you to take a moment for yourself and thank yourself and dedicate this session to yourself. Right, Yeah, and then they'll be like, now, take your heel and bring it up so it touches your nose, I mean, and hold it there for an hour, right, And if you can't, don't worry, just do what feels you. Know that you can always come back to a comfortable position, not put your pinky toe around to the back of your skull while standing on one ft, Right, can you proceed to stretch your ass off for ninety minutes? They play really bad music. They wouldn't need to like there's good Like you can play the national or in some rate and select radio headcuts and have the same effect. But they'll go with like a you Yeah, they need to they need to move towards the indie radio heads. And you know how like they have in square dances, like a person that calls square dance like grab your partner dosi. Though there's like the lady like that wanders around sort of in this loud whisper calling the session trying to inspire people. No, she's like calling square dance, but calling like the next stretches you're gonna do encouraging or calls like okay, we're gonna do with this that we're gonna do that. Take a take a step step back. The fact that there's talking about the benefits and there's a group of of of hunting guys talking about their yoga experiences right now. Yeah, how are we circling to hunting fitness? I think that because I think that after my four times and after Yanni's experience, but she's gonna touch on I think that it is one of the I think it's a great thing to do for hunting fitness. But you've only done it four times? Are you going to continue to do it? I have enough experience with physical activity and stuff that I think, Yeah, I'm starting to really think so. I think as far as injury prevention, as far as slinking through the woods and crawling under and over all kinds of garbage like hole known comfortable positions and just being like comfortable. But are you gonna go pay to do it? Are you just gonna do it at home? I think we pay to do it. I wouldn't know how to do it at home because you need the lady to call it. Yeah, you need you need a little guy like you can I mean, obviously you can go to YouTube and do yeah. I mean that's how saying because you're in a hot room full of people. My wife, My wife does it all the time with apps and ship like that. Four degrees. No, it's it's helpful having somebody to tell you to do something you don't want to do. And then and then when you really don't want to do it anymore, they're still telling you keep doing it. It's no, they're telling you, hey, if you can't do it, it's cool, go back to it. Happen but then there's some person to the right of you that is just killing and so you're like, I got to prove to them that I it's also helpful when you've paid to do it, because when you're invested in, yeah, the kind of guy, Like if I paid to get in there and it turned out they were just gonna beat my fingers with a hammer, I will still stay right. Like you commit. It's like going to see a shitty movie, right, You're gonna watch till the end. That bring this up. It's like in hunting, if you pay attention to hunt me, there's a big thing of like, uh, we're dudes are trying to get their neck out past their ears. Big yeah. And so it has something to do with hunting, lifting weights and like like that. A one time they were there, honestly got five minutes into the hike, they tip over. They tip over. Yeah. I would say that one physical trade of all of us is pretty skinny up her bodies, Like our legs are all pretty strong. Maybe it was just checking his bicep to but there I feel like there's I feel like there's a lot of dudes out there that, like, on the surface, earned way better shape than me. But if you go do the ship that we do, they just collapse mentally. It was a kind of fitness. Like people think that in shape means that your next wider than your ears, right, But it's like in shape for what, Like if you are in a lot of fights, like if you Corey, if you're getting a lot of like, yeah, it'd be like, yes, you're in shape, but like in shape means to be it needs to be sort of like in shape for what thing. Yeah, And I think that if you were gonna just based on limited experience and when I'm home, like I get a lot of cardio in honey, when I'm home, I do weights and exercises stuff. But I'm starting to think that the real thing rather than trying to be like a thick neck you know. Um, I think that being all limber and stuff like that totally. What's your thoughts on that, Yeah, I know you're a real advocate of yoga. Yeah, I'm thinking I just had to re up my usually buy a ten pack pass. The costs me I think seventy five bucks and I think I just bought my fifth one, so I'm up to forties. Some classes in the last you know, year, so maybe a year and a half. And um, I also think it builds some core strength. It's in me, but not in a way that like pumping iron, will you know what I mean, Like it's a different kind of well, I think it's a different way to get to a similar result, similar and product. I think it's more effect when when like in our class, a lot of times we'll have like a ten minutes session when you've kind of done all the stretching and and the kumbaya stuff. Kills me, it kills my wife. My wife's like, let's go down with let's go down with it. Like is that like it's it's a real mental challenge because they we always talk about like staying in the moment, and like when the teacher and in our classes, they're like, you want to basically be concentrating on what you're doing and you're breathing and that's it. So if you have thoughts coming into your head, like what you're gonna be doing at work, because I also go like in the middle of the day at two pm, really and so I'm thinking and oftentimes I'm like, Okay, what am I gonna do with the last hour and a half of my day before I go home. And so it's a real good challenge for me to say, you know what, don't think about that right now. You need to be thinking about your reading and like what you're trying to do here right now, and just stay in the moment. Let those thoughts come in and then go come in and go like, don't because if you I feel like, if you're sitting there for five minutes being like, yeah, then I'm gonna write the do this and maybe do some receipts and some reimburrassments and right a budget for the next episode, and I'm like, oh shit, you know, I'm not doing yoga anymore. Um. So I like that aspect of it, you know, like it is like leave the outside world, focus on what you're doing there at the moment um. Yeah, that's that's what turned me off to it, And what still turns me off to is I'm a secular person, So I don't like the um. I don't like them sort of laying on you an Eastern mysticism, a mystical aspect, because I don't think and I know that they would say that's all one of the same, Like the Eastern mysticism is what makes the exercise is good. But I think that you could be doing all that and they could be saying, I want you to think of the nastiest devil person doing the most horrible thing to someone else, and and and fill your brain with that thought and do all those exercises, and your body would come out the same. Like, I don't think your body cares that you're doing weird Eastern mysticism in your head while doing the exercises. But I would like to have a yoga place. I don't know much about it. They don't do mental masturbation. They don't do like that you're pretending to Eastern the the truth to be told becrum, which is a pretty popular form that's the hot yoga. Like my wife, it's like it's like a franchise. Is he the criminal, Yeah, he's a criminal. He's a molester, molester for sure. Accused, But I don't I mean I would I would be comfortable saying, well, you know, and accused molester. Yeah, but certainly Uh. One of the kind of profit type personalities where he thinks he has some sort of yes in yoga, but he plays that. He created a serious of postures that I think are pretty damn good. And there's very little in his dialogue which is copyrighted, which is basically all the It's like Starbucks. It's the Starbucks of yoga. You go there and you know exactly what you're gonna get. You're not gonna have a teacher that it just comes up with whatever they feel they want to do, because you know they're twenty years old, and this is a good idea. But it's a set of postures in a series in a specific order. Um and there's very little spiritual uh component to it. And and hata yoga is a physical type yoga. But is it even yoga if there's not a mind body connection. I mean, that's that's the whole thing, right, It's just body. It's calisthenics basically. I mean the history of yoga, modern yoga is basically amalgamation of calisthenics and some some historic like spiritual practices all meshed together. I mean, the yoga that we think of is like the one that that America, I don't know, found out about in the six years or seventies. It was like a colonial combination of in India. But but there was like Western influences of military calisthenics and like aerobics, and I mean it's it's not as simple to say it's like, oh, the practice that we're doing now in the yogas woo you you go to you was like some two thousand year old yoga practice. Yeah it's new. It's like a California roll. I mean, yeah, it's just not that old. Yeah. So, and it all seems to me it seems like no brainer that there is a mind body connection that doesn't seem like but you're also trying to commercialize very basic religious physical But in our modern lives we do a lot of activities that are not very good for us. Sitting at computers all day long, um, and so doing doing it, doing something where you have to be uncomfortable kind of think within yourself, it seems like a religious part. No, no, I dig the physical component, Like you are uncomfortable. They were telling you to do something uncomfortable and say like, embrace that discomfort, continue to do it and don't free out. Yeah. I like that. The room is hot as I mean, is it's hot, and you want like you walk in there and you're like can I can I leave now? And there are people people not freaking out, breathing under no breathing, and understanding that your body will tell you to freak out because you're not used to something. But that does not mean that you are not able to cope with that stimulus. You just you can. You can control your body's response to things like what you're saying, because I will oftentimes I think that that that diving in very cold water. You're getting very cold water, and and there's way like if you're free diving and there's like bad waves and there's just a lot of stuff going on. You tend to be like, all of a sudden, realize that I'm freaked out for no reason, just like the atmosphere, the circumstances. I'm in this water, Like your whole life, you try and like not to be in cold water. Right, you turn the shower on, you keep sticking your hand in there to make sure that when you get in there it's not like that. And you get in it, and I feel myself also, I'll catch myself like why am I freaked out? Just calm down, Yeah, calm down, and it's not a problem. Breath is a big component to it, and breath is a big component to yoga. And I think of you guys hustling towards animals, like full aerobic threshold, breathing hard, and then you have to take a shot and you have to control your breath. And that's that's something you can practice. Uh, it's like overcoming this like physical discomfort, calming yourself down. It's like this. It's uh, it's it's a mind body connection where you're saying, I'm freaking out right now because I just ran up this mountain and there's this buck I've been looking for for six days of investment in all this like existential stuff is coming into play, but you just have to like like chill. Yeah, I had that hand to me the other night where after we shot the Bark and it was getting dark and it was hard to get over to where the buck was to go down a big hell hole. Should we start with the whole buck story from the beginning of then I got I got something. I gotta the portions of it. Well, it's amazing story portions of it. So we get onto a w before we get off to the yoga thing, because I put yoga and CrossFit in the same category. It's like it's getting good at something in order to be good at it. No, no, but doing something simulating something to get good at something that you actually apply. And it's like, why don't people like CrossFit and yoga. It's like, I'm gonna do these things that will make me better than outdoors? Why not just go spend time in the outdoors If you have spare time, I don't go bike in climbing. Like it's like you're in this controlled environment trying to be comfortable in stress. Why not go Like if you have time to do an hour of yoga session, go on a height, go on a run. Observed, my brother observed, the only thing cross fit makes you good at is CrossFit. Yeah, And that's that's all activities, right, All activities are inherently activity specific, like like the brain games, like all the you know, crossword puzzles, like to increase your mental acuity or whatever. Most studies points to the fact that you just get better doing crossword puzzles. But there is cross training is effective and if you just all go cross trains, if you just if you run all day long, every day, that's all you're gonna be good at. You you know, you usually you often get injured, and so it's a way of still exercising, recovering, and gaining some new like and all of us endurance athlete hiker types or hamstrings are like so incredibly just taught very Yanni's proud now that he can touch his toes, but it was probably a new dude, I can lay my hands flat on the floor. No, but you guys are missing my point. It's like, get outside. No, I'm anxiously want I still badly want to get back to your point. But but Rick, I'm trying to You got a diverse, diverse fire outside in an uncontrolled set. Yes, to your point. I'll say that I'll lead it off. I say this. I have an acquaintance who's a very very accomplished mountaineer, and he'll have things where he's gonna go do something and he'd be like, you know, you should know before we go do this. Oh no, no, no, I do cross fit. So climbing this four ft peak, you cry, we get these rocks. If you carry the rocks around, um, keep our score on a chalkboard. And then they're like, do you mean it's like not, the best way to train for hunting is to put a thirty pound pack on your back and go walk around where you're gonna hunt, not like, oh I'm ready for hunting season. Been hitting the stairmasters. Yeah, like the heads yea. With anything at all oversifying nature, you can. Yeah, but a lot of people have like these, you know, weird scheduled lives that we basically don't purtect better nothing. It's all better than nothing. It's not the thing. There's there's two When when I'm gonna take a new person on a rug and hunt, I tell them two things. Get your boots and break them in and get in shape. They never do either of those things. There's no get your boots broken in or warm? How many times don't like the people will not do those two things. There's no way ninety minutes across fit for or five days a week prepares whatever it is. There's no way it prepares you for a sixteen hour day of looking for deer, hiking for deer, running after deer, and being mentally drained the entire day. Like there's yeah, there's there's nothing. Nothing but it will give you if you already have some endurance space, it'll it'll help you in some Yeah, you can't go do that. I mean obviously, like if you're out of shape athlete and hiking all over the place, and then you're in CrossFit for two months and you haven't hiked once and you go hiking. You're gonna feel fine, but you can't transition from basic CrossFit to go. This is the thing. It's like, it's any of the endurance things. It's like if you just lift weights and you expect to like go, I don't know, A big game not gonna happen. A walk got to be a nature. It's low intensity for long hours, sidehill and falling down. Is it hard to It's hard? Walking? Yeah, walk it's hard. It depends for how long. Walking isn't like a pretty kind of walking. This kind of hunt entails. The only reason I know it's hard because so many people fail so miserably at it. I know, But is it hard for you because you've been doing it for a really exactly, that's what you gotta do. That's like, that's kind of one of the things I was gonna get. A's like, what do you do to stay in shape? Or hunting? It's just like you kind of hunt stay in shape hunting when I'm home and if I'm not gonna hunt for a week, or I'm not gonna be on the woods or mountains for a week, then I'll do weights. I don't know why, but if you had the opportunity, I mean, you're obligated in other realms, but if you had opportunity, you would go out and you know, go up to a peak or something. But I can't go. That's not something I'm gonna go do for an hour now. But for just just a performance perspective, like if a sprinter just a hundred yard hundred meter dash, just run a hundred, they're not going to be very good at it. They have to do all sorts of different types of training. They do very short things, very long things, weights, Like you got to optimize your specific activity, you have to do other things. But I think a huge point that's being overlooked here is like the mental aspect of it. Like you gotta know that you're gonna like it's gonna be a shitty day, Like you're gonna hurt, you're gonna fall down, you're gonna be sore, you're gonna be tired, like shapeage, if you're gonna spook animals. If you don't know that going into it, then you're just it doesn't matter how good to shape you're in. I feel like that's a real good point. Mental yeah, yeah, if you're not able to do it. That's why there's two things I was gonna talk about. I was gonna mention, what's wrong on almos? Look like you're in pain? You honest, he is, He's not mentally disfocused on his pain. Someone saying something you just don't like legs and lungs. Our friend, Rourke denver Um, he ran the for for a period in his career. He ran the Buds program, so it's the the like the elimination course for the Navy Seals. He ran. That program is obviously extremely yea mentally physically. He said, Oh, we're looking for We're just looking for those people who cannot who cannot quit. He says, there's probably many ways to find them. We find them through the application of cold water and PT. He says, you could find the same people, you know, with hot water or whatever. It's like you're just looking for the guy that won't quite other other military disciplines. It's just like we're gonna put a ton of weight in your backpack and you are just going to walk. You can eat as much as you'd like, You're just going to walk and we will then find the couple percent of you who cannot quit. Another funny thing he said to me was I was asking how they do push ups there, and he said, you can do them however you want. You're gonna do five thousand them today. Uh. It is it's that endurance, that pain tolerance, the the people with no quitting them. Yeah, and there is some physiological things going on too, I believe so. I believe so, But I think that a big part of like, yeah, to bring a full circle, I take a big part of hunting fitness, and I'm talking about like very demanding, kind of like wilderness type hunting. Um is just finding it in you too, be calm and stressed. So it's like it gets dark. I'll say, there, we got this buck. I found myself stressed for a minute. Like by the time I got over, I shot it. With twelve minutes I legal shooting light left. By the time I got over to where it was, I couldn't find it. Knew I knew I had a good hit. I couldn't even figure out where it was because I had to cross the canyon to get over there. And I was like, oh, it's dark now, and there's and just like creating problems in my head. It's gonna be so late by the time whatever, and just be like just catch yourself, because I see sometimes people don't catch themselves. Well. I remember one time we got a little bit turned around the Arctic and a guy I was took honting, it was his first hunting tripever just took off into the night. He got so freaked out about where we were headed that he just got in his head in some direction and just went and he like had a panic attack. I think that's a big part of it. I think a big probably too, just like haven't been the just like that that uh, trying not to quit. Yeah, like you got like halfway or three quarters of the way up in the mountain when you're like this sucks. You need to be able to look up and be like, Okay, I just gotta keep walking, no big deal. I was talking to an old man one time after I was at the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation thing and in Las Vegas, and I was talking to old man. He's a very accomplished a big game hunter, and you know he did a lot of sheep hunting, and we got to talk about the demands of sheep hunting, and I kind of like veered the conversation toward aspects of physical fitness, and it made him uncomfortable, and he said, really, it just kind of comes down to putting one ft in front of the other. Yeah, it's a project. I look at this a project. But I will say, like when you're hunting with other dudes or chicks or whatever, like it can be tough because like we might be on the same like level of mental and physical ability, but like there's no way I can walk up a hill quite as fast as you're honest, because it's freaking stride is like five times longer, you know what I mean. Like he was, um, no, he wasn't going too fast tonight. He's creeping normally the eagles is um faster than but to not. I kept kind of bumping into him. But you know what I'm saying, Like, when you hunt was even if you hunt with someone who's in shape, like you still might not be on the same timing, you know what I mean. Yeah, like you're gonna get there when you get there, But yeah, the eagles a fast walk. Everyone has their strengths. My final thought here on the yoga why do you hate this conversation so much? I don't hate it all. I feel like I really enjoy it. I'm like thinking about the next time I'm when we go to my yoga class. We're gonna we're gonna go together. We're going. Yeah, okay, so when you're there, we're gonna go. But do you really enjoy just doing yoga? I want to get better at doing yoga? But this hunting season, I felt as good, good as I've ever maybe not ever, maybe not as as I felt. And I was twenty and elk hunt for the first time, but like in a long time, just like it's like, it's not it's not like hunting. Do you feel like you were in better shape when you were twenty? No way, Well I was probably still smoking cigarettes at twenty, but would smoke my twenty year old self just drinks? Yeah, I think, yeah, But anyway, sorry, go ahead. It just surprised me you because I we're in there. I was like, I quit smoking cigarettes and I got in a pretty good shay if I started running, you know, a veil half drinking quite so much? Yeah, right, but I was gonna say. It's like the the things that like, even if you went hunting more and try to replicate it and you're like, I'm gonna go out and train the hunt today on the mountain with a backpack on and I'm gonna sneak up on deer, You're still just not gonna put yourself somehow in those positions that you actually do when you're hunting. It's like it just be almost too hard to like mentally be like, oh, right now, I'm gonna act like I got into some deer and get down on my knees and then kind of go halfway down and just kind of sitting there on the side of this mountain like this with my knees stuck on a rock fifteen minutes and that's good night. I'd be like I'm gonna go train on the mountain to hunt. But that's where yoga I feel like, yes, in these positions when I'm like, oh, my names and I'm like, okay, it's gonna I gotta sit here, because if I if I do like this, they're gonna see me. I'm gonna get up on like you know, like lift my head up another foot. She's gonna see my head or whatever. Those are the kind of like things that were Yo. I'm like, man, I feel great doing this right now. I've been stuck in this position for forty minutes and I'm not like in pain or stressing about it that I need to move my leg. So I get that. Yeah, what else big Bucks and little Bucks? You want to talk about big Bucks a little Bucks? What about coyotes too? Oh yeah, Two times this week we had coyotes coming run off or her ass run off, or her ass and or her ass box we were looking at. One was yeah, go ahead, Well one interesting bark, the smart the very interesting buck just let everyone else go and stood still for an hour. He was in a little aspen grove with a bunch of dolls. I don't know how many dolls came out of there. Eight The eagle glasses up. Three coyotes coming down the mountain, charging down the mountain, says they're gonna go into that asp and pass for all the d Are deer come out of there? I likened it to squeeze in the two two just do your started shooting out of the ask patch. And there's a buck we were watching and there knew he was in there. A good one stands up next son of a bitch would not move the stock still. He's like, I'm not gonna be running out here all excited getting shot at by guns. I like where I'm gonna stay. I'm brushed out and let the ladies run around, and I am not moving because dudes that move get shot at. The Kayats moved through, stood for a while, longer, ever longer, back down, and then laid right back down even though all the ladies had left. The bast and patch cleaned out. Yeah, they came back to him a couple couple, but it cleaned out, and he was like weighing. That's how big box get big. He's weighing in his mind, like what's worse, I'll stomp that Coy's like, they're all running. I'm not gonna expose myself in the middle of the day, because what coyote gonna go after a running deer? More than likely later we got to see the same bar Brody two times, the same buck where we saw him see a person, in this case Brody, no fault brodies some dolls to run around getting all excited. He just very kind of like slowly, not a lot of hub ub just kind of crept out of the area, no hopping and jumping around, sticking his head up. He's just like, yeah, that was a smart buck. Yeah you see, Like watching him, you go like, that's how you become six years old with all manner, people all trying to kill you. But Kyote round number two is kind of a completely different situation. What played his cards completely differently. Yeah, he was just with those dose those dose booked. He was with eight or nine dolls, coyotes coming rolling through the dose all books spill off the hill a couple minutes later for drift back around right where they came from, but not him. Yep, that buck decided that it was worthwhile to go to a new area to just be away from the act for a while. Yeah. I didn't go far, went to where he could just watch stuff happening. I felt like, it's good, it's funny to watch that, like the gears turning in the yad Man assessing risks in Arctic Dreams, Barry Lopez has a he's talking about polar bearer, how long polar bearer can live, and he has line in there where he says that, um, some if the bear doesn't make any mistakes twenty five years. That's impressive. Yeah, And I just thought it was like a good way of putting it. If he doesn't make any mistakes, it learns not to make mistakes, doesn't make mistakes. Do you make mistakes? What's I mean a big buck? What's their long terms? Ancient? But like and if they weren't going to get shot, what's their life expects? See in the wild. Now, I can tell you this not nearly as long as females, because they run themselves to ragged. So you have like twenty year old cow elk turn it up all the time, a ten year old bulls very old. No like doll sheep again, you can have used eighteen nineteen years old. A ram tends to go very quickly from being top dog to dead dog. I think the man deplete themselves. It's not it's okay to say not getting shot at, but I think it's important to add on to that that It's like, you know, we always talk about like hunter mortality, you know, getting shot at like such a small percentage of why these animals are dying, you know, at these at any age. But like like you're saying, they wear themselves ragged and so they're more susceptible to you know, starvation, preda and predation, you know, and so a lot like wolves and Yellowstone. They're always taking it down big worn down bulls. Absolutely, yeah, I will find it like lions target. Lions will target run it out slow, and I imagine it's I mean, it's very probably closely related a big Bucks that's in his prime and Bucks that's about well prime and over the hill or right, I think. I mean, I think it's seven or eight year old Neil. Their buck is ancient and they don't have like a retirement. They don't have like, oh, look at those young bucks off chasing ladies, remember those days. It's like last year was a really good year and now I'm dead. I think that would go for humans if you like a good twenty years. And then there's like the special old horse pasture and you're always like, what are those horses like? Yeah, they're like they did their work. Now they just get to live out their days on that pass because they closed all the slaughter facilities. But we also got to see we also got to see a lot of cool young buck behavior too, which is you know the thing that Brodon I were talking about is um The thing I like hunting milder. In open countries, you see so much body language, social interactions with the animals, so you'll get to view them for a long time. Something you mentioned last night, Brodie, after that close encounter with the dough and two fonds, is that their vocal interaction that Yeah, yeah, a lot of people I may not know it. I mean, I'm sure Steve and Janice have heard it. But if you're real close to them and it's a quiet day, they talk to each other a lot, like little grunts and muse and stuff. And people don't think a deer is like a vocal animal, but I've heard a lot where a dough talks to her fonds and it's cool if you're close enough to hear it. And one of his turkey hunting taps, Will Primo talks about with turkeys because there's all the sounds, you know, because it's some about when you just sit and have turkeys come by, they're they're making all kinds of noises, but not noises that carry at all. But when you're super close to me, you realize they're constantly carrying yeah, like like in all like in audible to you like you're not gonna hear it on the right there, you realize, like, man, they are just communicating I'm here, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here to each other, you know. And then the body language too, like we saw those spawns like bigger and with each other and getting nasty with she with each other, and the the young bucks nose and the does and the does not paying attention to him, the big bucks chasing does and giants. Certain The thing I like a lot is when you're glad when you glass up some deer that you locate other deer based on you'll you'll realize the dear is there that you cannot see based on the tension in the group of deer when a new deer is coming. The buck I shot today, the dough stepped into a little opening that was a deer's body with wide and she turned around and looked down the hill, and I knew that that buck was behind her. I couldn't see him, but I knew it was coming. She's not yeah, because it's the fall, because this is that dude. Yeah, this had his nose in my hand. Ye yep. Know when we were first classing those ones up and we just saw does and we didn't even see the buck. But then we saw I saw through the that's right. You even said, you said, terrible little l c V viewfinder on looks like she's getting pestered. Yeah, you said, I just saw one of them get past. There was a buck in the game. It's very true. Yeah, Like you don't see that sitting at a tree stand and with a bunch of hardwood oaks around you, Like you don't see the deer long white tails long enough to see much of that. Yeah, I think it does happen, not nearly, like like a whole morning watching watching it from a thousand yards away, just over the course of two hours of interaction among one, you know, group of deer. It's super cool. I mean it was cool to go from Pow, which was our last hunt, you know, where he catch just a such glimpses and this this this round, we saw so many deer and glassed up so many like it was so many stocks and so many like like from my camera guy perspective, like over the rifle, whether we were going to shoot or not, I had you know, the host in frame with the animal. Yeah, it's just a cool it's a cool thing. Me and Corey did see an interaction that in po Double, even though that the glimpses are so fleeting of deer when you're in the coastal rainforest, we saw an interaction where I blew a fun distress call and a dope came in with the pahn and then for whatever reason kicked the ship out of the faun like ten ft away from that tenth I'm exaggerating, but it was extremely close, like you've been a bad child kind of thing. I was wondering because she comes in, because she's coming running into she's coming running in presumably it's like you're making the sound of a phone getting attacked. She runs in to defend the faon the fawn foster. I wonder if she's saying get out here to the fawn, if she's saying don't the same way if you like, see if you're with your kids and you see like an altercation break out in the parking lot, like if your kids were to like run towards the altercation or a fire or something you like into the altercation, right like what get you know, what are you doing? You go there? You know? Or like yeah like that, And I kept wondering like what was the thing there? Where she turning? She kind of like she was from but she she also could have been saying like, all right, if you get closer, we see the predator. This is what you have to do. You need to stand up and like punch up. Because they both kind of kicked at each other, like the fawn kind of offended. Remember, let's get abusive. Let's let's get feisty there for a while too. Yeah, Yanni's buddy J Miller was just telling me the other night about um. I didn't see how I didn't use his full names so folks can't look him up. Keep his secret there, J Miller. Uh, I mean, there's lots had a buddy of his call up and the guy every time he cuts hay bales. J Miller's buddy cuts hay bales open round bales or no price square bales. Either way, he takes all the twine and lays all the twine over defense, and over the years has built up quite an accumulation to twine on the fence where he feeds his livestock. A buck comes in there to get hey left over, You left over Hey, and he's feeding around where all the twine is and gets himself so wrapped up in the twine that he's stuck to the fence. For some reason. I think they were like loops, is how I understood it, because he was like taking the loops off the bail somehow and then just instead of cutting it, taking the loop off and throwing it over a single post. I understood it as he was taking the loops off, because then that that gives us, like the bucks, something to get actually get caught in, because I feel like it was just like a you know, one string and then you don't really get caught up. So he had thrown these loops over like a single post and accumulating over years and years and years, and right in that area there was left over. Hey, but come in eating that and gets entangled and then he's a Japanese cowboy. Yeah, it was very important that we understood that story. Oh yeah, because then you get to do like, you know whatever you think you're Japanese cowboy accent is Mr Miller was doing that accent and he loves the guy. Great neighbor, I think it is. But anyways, he says he's got a buck stuck in the twine and uh, I guess he went down there with what did he say he had sick? Which find the hell that had a sickle? I don't know, but he was going in there and yeah, slicing two, three, four, how many ever, you know, chunks of twine jumping out. And then when he finally got the last chunk that freed that buck, that buck stood and looked at Mr. Miller. He said, you must be the one that caused this problem, and then came after him. I believe to think now the story win that he grabbed him by the horns, but still the force pushed him, because we're talking about the power, and little lines ripped through his jeans, parallel lines up each like, and he said that he'll never do that again, never the next time hes cowboy calls me up about a buck store, staying out of it. We had this buck wander around our our neighborhood a few years ago. We call him Ropy, a big buck. But he had this rope. Was the name kind of after you, no no Ropy rope because he had this like length of rope and his antlers. And I had a buddy that lived across town from me, not far away a half mile called me up and said, rope, he's got this four corn. Roby was big, and I don't know why a fourcorn would have been messing with him, but it was after the rut and they were fooling around or whatever, and he got this four corn stuck and his antlers in the rope busted that four corn's neck, but the four ky was still alive, and they had to come and shoot that four corn and cut him loose from that right in town. Yeah, now you know how you were wondering, like why they'd be fighting. Uh years ago, my brother had a big horn sheep tag and we glassed up some rams and it was a nice big ran that we were after. But he's running with a bunch of little shavers and we crawled in on him and he got all set up waiting for a shot, and the big ones wouldn't get up. The little ones would. Honestly that I wish I had this on film. The little ones would go up to the big one and hook their horn onto his horn like you're hooking a car to a trailer, to try to drag him onto his feet too spar wanting to play with him, basically, but they come into his curl hook their curl on his curl and try to back up and lift him up onto his maybe a way of learning or something, and then he would get up and do a little number with them, and in in fact, it was one of those times that boom, Yeah he was the last fight, the last fight he was ever in. Yeah, I was like they just wanted to square up with Mr. Peah. I think there's more to it, though, because they do a lot of that, the sheep especially. I think bucks and bulls do it too outside of the rut when they're not actually fighting, And I think a lot of it is because they don't have a mirror to look at and go, oh, I'm a eight class thick horn timber button, I'm kicking ass like they That's how they have to look who's around them and then go and feel what it feels like when they're putting their heads together. Fight a little bit, smart a little bit, and they don't always have to do it to the death. They can do it gently, get a sense of who, if what they have on their heads, and what kind of diamonds they you know, they could maybe exert then later actually during the run in particular, I've seen bulls like late season bulls very gently spiring with each other, just like tickling antlers with cal We saw some a couple of bulls kind of tearing it up late. Now I I read I never looked into the sea the validity of this, but I remember reading something to the effect of that, oftentimes a big buck we'll spend a lot of time with box outside of his age class, and someone was was was postulating that it was, uh, it alleviated some stress that if he's hanging out with a bunch of peers, there's more hierarchical fighting going on, and when you have these sort of separated age classes, they don't need just and as I don't know, it sounds so what I'm saying, like a theory on that was it's just it's easier for them to be in a situation one that that's like a very clearly established hierarchy. That makes sense, like like to me, that makes sense like post rut, like pre rut, like when they're still in velvet, you often see like a bunch of bucks of the same class together because they're just not mad at each other that time of year. You know, that's why, Um, it's stressful with me for me to home with the eagle, right, yeah, because who's better a Glass who can walk faster? And there is like this dirt I think got stressful. I think dirt would hike him. Though, you guys working on I think your your your assessment of dirt needs to be upgraded because he's starting to see animals a lot. I feel like it is getting good, yes, better, not good. I can't carry him. I can't outgir him, but I can help Glass. You definitely known as much chest Harrison. I can't hear him, Correy, what do you think about all that's been pretty quiet? No, this one has been awesome. I mean it's challenging in the in the physical sense, but then again, like you said earlier about watching the personalities of the each animal because you can see so far out there and learn a lot about him, and like you can almost maybe pick up on personalities of each animal, which is really cool without anthropomorphizing the whole thing. Like, oh that's a cute one, she's angry, and yeah, if you get the name him, Like like we get that one buck that Steve got, we got to watch it, we got to chase it for ten hours. Yeah, both of us how he his approach with the lady Storm and that guy. That was the longest hunt I've ever been involved with for one animal, and both of us were. I mean it was dawn until dark NonStop. It was shortly after daylight till twelve minutes before. Yeah. That that was. Yeah, one of the most satisfying hunting days of my life for sure. Johnny. What was that closing thought you had about Dirtmouth? It was ready for thought? Yeah, before ready to go there, I can start, I can kick on any other Is there any other pressing issues when you discussed that can't be that would fall outside of clothing thought hikers and bikers? Oh, Rick, real quick? Have have you got? Have? Have ladies contacted you? Have women contacted you? Based on me plugging you as a single man. I received one message on one on takes that just said I'm a lady and I listened to there there's a woman who's listening right well, I feel like there might be more than this to my mother in law used to listen. Listen you want to hear a story? Did I feel horrible? I'll tell that story real quick, But first, Rick Um, one woman has contacted you. There might be there might be a few that have followed me, but they haven't. They haven't been me or just you know, not interested. Yeah, they you know, followed me to see all my Instagram photos and they're like, yeah, this guy but too heartsy. But at the very least, Uh, you do have female listeners. Steve should be proud of yourself. So Janice's mother in law, Janice's father tells me a rather colorful story. I relate the story, don't put any spin on it, just relate the story. And she gets so mad at me that now she says she won't listen anymore. What all I did was told something that was told to me. Is she mad at your dad? Probably? Oh you think so? I don't know, would he? Uh would that upset? Helly? She's actually mad at anybody, But she didn't disapproving. Yeah, but you see the situation that puts me in where I'm just telling a story someone else told me it's like sho to tell shooting the messenger. Okay, you're you're you're clothing and thought about dirt, trying to think why we were talking about this, about what we were all doing? Uh? Is it about getting up to go to school? About getting up earlier or something. Oh, and yes it was Dirt pipes up with. I had a milk cow every day for school. Sucked. Somebody else has been complaining about having a shovel snow or make oatmeal or something. Just getting up early, and then I couldn't have cocoa blasts. You know. We were getting nostalgia about our mom's and how they would prepare the morning and will always wake us up in the morning. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was talking about. Yeah, everybody else is getting more milk, and see Dirt had to just get kicked out of bed to go fill up the cow. To myself, you know what, I do not have another pier that I can certainly think up quickly. They can say they as a child, they were milking the cow before they went to school. Everything. Well, my friendly had a milk whole ship, a family business, so it's different. We got on rolling cars today and Dirt's like, yeah, my brother wrote car twice. Both times he was racing me. Both regretful moments. But so that's all you got. Yeah. I just think that that kind of adds for the people that are following along podcasting it like it adds a nice little layer of character to dirt you know you kind of you know know where he came from. Um. Yeah, to think that it wasn't enough, I didn't know if you know, if you had a little more you needed to get out Corey. I don't think I would ever plan a big mule deer hunt around a big election because I think it took away a little bit from very distracting, very distracting one moment because we were in the middle of nowhere with no cell phone service, no contact with anyone. I think we waited day a day before we found out who was going to be the next day, didn't have the staff phone. We put in the truck because probably wait or room in the raft or something. But we asked some guy in to vote. Who won? Now I had that happened during bush Gore, where we put off a trip for the election. The next day no one knew and like, well, let's just go. Anyways, we went, then did a float trip for four days, came out who won? They still don't know another another popular vote winner, loser, popular vote, electoral vote. Yeah, it was it was like it was like so, um, yeah, it's hard to It was an odd it's just the day to camp, like not the delivery was No, it's just weird who states We're not a group of people that that doesn't care. I think all of us, in our own way are politically engaged and very much care about the process and the outcome. And to like Situs sit up and be glassing for for deer was both uh satisfying and disconcerting. Like it's a strange combination of like, thank god, I'm not watching the pundits, like give me the play by play. Like at the time, I was like, oh, this kind of feels good that I'm like kind of removed from the process. But then once the process was over and I knew people knew, I was like, oh my god, I can't believe I don't know what the outcome is like. And then we we ultimately were interested and we found out via radio, and then there was a lot of disbelief that yeah, so I mean this is my personal like concluding thoughts. But we found out on radio and Steve said Trump won, and uh, I was like, oh, uh are you are you screwing with me? You know, like like everybody in the nation, I think everyone in the whole country, because it had been so, but on the pounded into your head that it was impossible. I'm on radio with with Steve, who was hearing this information via somebody else, you know, And it's like, are you just messing with me? Like and no, But I really all day hoped that I was being messed with a little bit. You were upset. Yeah, I was like, I felt ill, but I did. I that cheered you up. Know, I was happy that I was happy to get the news such in in I felt ill sort of hearing that news, but in a group of people with such diverse political feelings that are all rational and information based, and so I feel like there's still a very large uh contingent of America that votes based on feeling, which I respect. But information and facts are really important to me. And I think one reason I respect Steve so much and we disagree politically slightly, I think we're on kind of two sides of the same coin. Um. But he's an information based human. It's like, if there's facts that tell him to believe a certain way, uh, he looks at them and it's like, okay, that's I'm gonna engage with those facts, like and uh, and so to be with a group of people that we could discuss the Trump presidency with with UH, with facts and with openness and an understanding that everybody has a different feeling about a lot of different things. It was like a pretty It was a good. It was a good. I think I would have been much less satisfied to watch this all unfold on CNN in my house by myself, because we we get we get pretty compartmentalized in our own little like bubbles. And I think that people are talking about that, but you guys, all, but the bubble. This is becoming a problem. It is definitely becoming a problem. But my work with this crew just in general, I'm not a hunter. I have different political beliefs than than UH. Then I think other people my feelings about yogurt slightly different than the other. But but we can all talk about this and like not get angry at each other. And I think it's man if if the rest of America had our little deal going on, we wouldn't have such issues. It was interesting, like we're huddled down waiting for that bug stand up, and the whole time Brick and I are just like talking about the election. That was your gluey thought, I loved it. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna build on that um with a couple of thoughts here. Now, I want to preface the saw us by saying that I made a conscious decision, a conscious decision a long time ago that in my public facing comments, like in my public facing viewpoints, I was not going to discuss I don't discuss politics. I discuss politics just because just it just pisses to many people off it just it just doesn't feel to me like it's constructive, um and larger because I sit on I sit simultaneously on both sides of defense. For instance, I support clean air and clean water and also a robust military and capital punishment. So like, I don't have a lot of use for conservative and liberal because I'm um. I'm an issues person each I look at each issue independently, and I don't look toward what is the particular platform of a party, like how can I align myself? Like, oh, since I am conservative, I must have this opinion, or let me go check, let me make a phone call to find out what my opinion is, because all I know is that I'm conservative, So I don't have that approach um. But anyway, I try to avoid politics, except I do talk about politics when it has to do with issues of wildlife conservation, wildlife management, hunting, fishing, how how the political atmosphere is affecting you know, are public lands? Yeah, public lands our lives as hunters and fishermen. So that's something uncomfortable talking about. UM. Now I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna talk about something that's going on now and the election in terms of something that I am comfortable discussing in politics, which is public lands issue. Now, some of you may have hurt that Donald Trump won the presidency. At this point, right now, this something that doesn't happen very often. At this point, right now, we have one political party. The Republican Party is now UM hold, will will soon hold the presidency, will hold the House of Representatives, will hold the Senate, and will soon hold. I know it's supposed to be it's supposed to be a political, but they will soon hold the Supreme Court. If you imagine that, they're like Republicans had there their nominees will have them already in the Supreme Court. Now Here, here's a I'm gonna tell you a fact. The Republican Party UM has a has a list of planks in their platforms. So the Republican Party has an agenda and it's not something that needed you need to speculate about. It's it's a written out agenda that the party holds. That they hold that and not all Republicans believe this. But the part of the platform is that we should be getting rid of federal public lands. This isn't like I'm not telling you like a theory. This is a thing you I invite you to go check. The Republican National Committee came out with like a like a prioritized list, honest list, as we need to be dumping federal public lands for sale for get them out of Yeah, I don't. I don't even see. Here's the thing is, I don't want to get into I'm trying not to spin any of this. I have fearies about why that is okay, But I'm just trying to lay out I'm trying to at this point because I'm so uncomfortable disgusting aspects of politics, because I'm such a mess politically that I'm trying to just lay out like I'm trying to lay out factual things. Yeah. So that's that's it's on the Republican agenda dumping federal public lands, and usually we have this. You know, we have a system of checks and balances in this country. Obviously that that exists between the Supreme Court, the President, House and Senate. UM. And we also have a different sort of checks and balances which comes about where we have two political parties that that um are on different sides of the aisland. They kind of battleship out all the time and that and that allows things to move slowly. And I tend to like people complain about gridlock. But I'll tell you this about my own personal political feelings is I don't always look at gridlock as being necessarily evil because, um, when things happen kind of slow and in a measured way, I feel that it lends a little bit of stability to our political lives, our social lives, our economy and um and in radical herky jerky ship kind of makes me uneasy. Uh So, all these differents so so so so much of the government now is controlled by a single political party, and that political party thinks we should be dumping the federal lands that we hunt and fish on. This is complicated. There's an upside of this when you think that that Trump isn't really He's a Republican by name only, he's not really Republican. Um. If we look at like a Republican as being like what the Republican Party has stood for for the last fifty years, For instance, the Republican Party has generally always stood for free trade. Um. Trump' sees a lot of value and protectionism. Okay, so he's at odds with his party and that he has one view of he has one of you that like free trade. There's some good parts to it. For free trade has also cost us a lot of manufacturing jobs and our things and allowed you know, cheap imports be dumped into our economy and throw our economy off. So he departs from the party line on free trade. Um. The Republican Party is always stood for promoted a very slippery urn, but like traditional family values. UM. I think if you look at Trump's personal life some of his articulated opinions, I don't think that he really ascribes to what we might call like traditional family values. So he kind of parts from that. They're very conservative traditional family yeah, any religious conception of Now, Republicans have generally over the years stood for UM. Containment of the Soviet Union, which trade transitioned into a containment of Russia. Trump is open to finding common ground with Russian and finding ways in which we might work with Russian instead of in opposition to them. I'm rick, don't shake your head. I'm trying to lay out unbiased, just things that the man has said. I'm agreeing with you. I just freaking it makes it makes no hurt because we're not talking about politics right now. I'm setting up something that I want to talk about experience. You're right, You're right, Okay, No, I'm agreeing with you, but I just my brain explodes thinking about Trump. No, please, Rick, stop, I'm gonna cut. I'm gonna have you unplug his thing. Your brain explodes to we're not talking about politics. I'm laying some ground his thing, Trump diverging from the Republican Party, which is the thing that is like no one would disagree with it. I agree and it um, Ricky got me all messed up. I'm trying to do something, something very delicate. I think you're doing. Thursday, January one, two thousand sixteen, I was sitting in Nevada, about forty yards away from Donald Trump when he said, What did he say, Honest, you were sitting right next to me. What did he say about public lands? He wasn't gonna sell him off, not interested in get rid of public lands. I am not gonna get rid of your public lands. Did you hear him? He said it to me and Yanni and hundreds of other people. I heard him with my own two ears and saw with his own two eyes say it. Now. The man is gonna be under intense pressure to uphold at once a number of campaign promises that he has made. Some of them have been described as outlandished. Whatever I don't I don't get that right now, He's gonna be under intense pressure. And he's also gonna be under intense pressure to align with Republican orthodoxy on all things. And I do, Like I said, I do agree with the Republican Party and many things. I part ways with them on the issue of federal public lands. I think that people who like to hunt, and who like to fish, and who like to camp and write a t V s and enjoy wildlife. What else am I missing? Mountain bikers, skiers, hikers, those of us those Americans who recreate and and spend their time and spend their money and find their passion on public lands. Donald Trump's sons, you need to just you need to and not you need to to to say. Listen, Stephen, Yanni heard you say that. Yep, stay true to that, please, because entering into a realm where things get turned upside down and people's attentions get abandoned and you make all kinds of compromises, I just hope. And where do we hunt out week? Public land? Yeah? Public land? I mean now, I don't want here's the air thing. I don't want to act like the public landage. We have people, you know, a lot of things. We have a lot of people who are concerned with issues like their job. We have people who concerned with issues like civil liberties. All Americans have big issues. And I don't want to hold up the public lands issues being the number one problem facing the country. But because I prefaced this whole thing by saying that there's an aspect of politics I'm comfortable talking about because I really know it well, and that is issues surrounding wildlife management, land use. Like I I stay boned up on that stuff. Me too, And and we could not have done our entire week, could not have existed without public lands. And he stood there in front of me and Janni and staid. I will not sell your public lands. Not interesting, get rid of you public lands. Uh, Brody, what's your thought? Don't talk about politics now, that's all Rick. I swear to God you already did your thing. I love you and respect you. I'm not going to talk about politics or rick Um, I agree with you. I guess I'd like to talk about mule deer. I kind of want to talk about beavers, but we didn't get there. Oh please please talk about beavers. Well, I got my first beaver right before the hunt. Tell them about Colorado's rule on beavers no trapping. I don't know, what's just bullshit? Well they're trying to outlaud it. Well did that get what happened with that? Got destroyed? Montana? So Montana had I was I won seven seven? Or they had some initiative you put up you couldn't trap on public land anymore, or that didn't go over real Well, sixty percent of the boat against that initiative. Well, look at a state like I feel like it could happen in Montana if it just got destroyed. I know, but I'm saying, if Montana becomes more it's more gentrified. Yeah. The minute Colorado had its population living and the front und Yeah, they got trapped. Right, So it's like that's what I was saying. We live in this weird time. On one hand, we have people trying to get rid of our public lands, and then we have this other group of people from you know, presumably from very much across the aisle from that group, trying to lock out an entire segment group who's been using a sustainable, renewable resource based on the idea there are hundreds of years, for longer than it's even been a damn state. Yeah, but no one was, No one can Those people can't wrap their head around an animal dying in a trap, right, No, they can just wrap their heads around the scores of animal deaths that they encounter every week on highways, on their on their plate. Yeah, like when they get a chicken nuggets? How many damn chickens? How many damn chickens earned one chicken? Any one? But either way, I Colorado outlawed trapping. Yeah, fifteen twenty years ago. I don't know how based on a voter referendum, much like they voted out spring bear hunting, hunting bears with dogs hunting. But either way, someone was smart enough to say, well, if you can't trap him, then you can hunt him on a small game license. And I shot a beaver on a small game license ten days ago, right before this hunt, and uh, with Steve's guidance, skinned it made a nice little round thing. And now I'm gonna have either or around by by which he means he round skinned skinned it yea. And I'm either going to do mitts or a trooper hat. I'm not sure yet, but he's gonna use that. He's gonna use the services of Clifford's Critter Creators. Who does anyone looking to have custom work done with your own first ice trapped stuff and not trapped stuff. We just have hats and stuff made for it. And my brother last beaver we got, he had a nice hat made for his wife. But we were hoping on the float portion of this hunt that we'd run into a beaver. It just didn't happen. Yeah, when you look at when what Colorado did when they had the referend of the band Trapp and Colorado, I didn't notice Still Brody tell me they just moved all the fur bears over round of the small game list, and so this is like the only state that I've ever did I know about. You can hunt beavers with two That's the only way, I mean, basically the only way to get a beaver. Now, there's like a certain irony there where someone telling me if you look at like when when California band lion hunting, you look like what the annual harvest was of lions in California. I could be completely wrong, but I feel like it was somewhere in the vicinity of like three year annual harvest California. Now you look at what Animal Control services guess how many lions Animal Control Services kills. Ever you're in California, that many. In Colorado, they outlawed spring bear hunting, dog hunting, bait hunting, and I'm not at all a big fan of bait hunting for bears, but the last time they had done well, do you mean that you don't have any desire to do it? I should be able to do it. No people can do it. It's just not something that it's like when I look, I like, I love to hunt bears, but it's just like I like to hunt bears spot stock, but it doesn't mean that that's not any kind of comment on how all the people like the hunt them. But either way, Colorado, the last time they did a major population study on black bears, it was some time around the time they banned that stuff, and there was X number of bears. They recently did a study twenty years later, fifteen years later since that's that that type of hunting had been banned, and found out the population of black bears in Colorado had essentially doubled. And now the only way to control that population is a fairly difficult fall bear hunting season. But we just talked to biologists who said they're fixing to start doing some state sponsored bear control. Right, so you remove you make it the people, the paying customer, the license buying customer who's gonna go out and buy a license and supports fishing game and then do a bear hunt, get a bear, have the meat, have the hide. It's like, oh, no, it's better if we just have government guys snipe them. Yeah, that's that's that's that's the solution. I mean, I would I would be such a huge fan of a spring bear season and not what I don't need dogs. I don't need bait. I would love to be able to go do a spot in stock hunt like Montana has in the spring. Yeah, and you can't bait Montana and you can't run dogs Montana. But it's not coming from the place that when people are trying to ban the practices. It's like traditional use patterns that when you look at when I look at hunting, um and fishing in the regular and the regulatory structures that we have, I give a lot And I didn't invent this. It's a it's a it's a common idea, but I give a lot of credence to traditional use patterns. So what are the things that that people have traditionally done here? And it gives you a good framework to understand new things. For instance, so many states are getting out ahead of the drone situation, and it's so easy to ban drones now for the use of hunting, and thirteen states almost every state where you'd even have where you have open enough country that would even western hunting states have all banned the use of drones, and honey, why was it easy to do that? It's not a traditional use practice. There's no resistance. In fact, hunters are the most vocal proponents of getting out ahead of the drone situation, of banning the use of drones and hunting. So there is like a real there's a reverence towards traditional use practices. And when we're go in and say, like when we're going inside to try to pluck out traditional use practices that we've already formed a successful wildlife management system in conjunction with you're gonna hit a lot of resistance from hunters and fishermen. Yeah, but when you turn that decision over to people who have no connection to hunting and fishing, then a traditional youth pattern can be just yanked out of existence. Basically, people who are like, you know, I wouldn't know a lion if it was chewing on my foot a fella day. I'm sure you shouldn't be able to hunt him, right. Oh you know what we glassed up tonight? Keep you gonna talk about this? We glassed up at Ermine. Oh really? Yeah? Pure white, pure white already, that's what makes ermine. You know we normally normally there's snow this time here, and that dude doesn't know there's this dude better watches he's gonna get nailed by Yeah, Yeah, because he just looks like you can't miss him. Man, it looks like a piece of paper blowing along across the climate change faster than faster that they can figure it out. He's like a little white hot dog just running across the stage. You say he glassed up another one the other day. Yeah, think we're on the river glass one to tell anybody about it. Fierce. Those guys are fierce, man. Yeah, they'll kill a jack rabbit. Yeah, we had one hanging out in our yard last year. Man, But you're concluding thought, I kind of hijacked your concluding talk that that was. That was basically it, other than you know, thanks to Rick and Garrett for just hanging tough with me the last few days. Rick lets those midnight not midnight. He likes those late night, um midnight, he says. He says, he enjoys it. You know, actually, I really part of me does not like them. Especially early on when I started doing this. It's like, Stark, we should go home now. Yeah, now, now I'm like, oh, this is awesome. We don't know, we don't know where we're going. There's probably some clips were getting encounter and everybody's head lamps are gonna be terrible except mine. So they're gonna be like, rick, hey, come on here, like it counts the best one. And I think somebody somebody's phrase that what was it brody? Something about the path at least, like the path of least resistance is often the hardest way to go. I think that's a really really good metaphor for life. Like you think, oh, drainage, we don't have to climb any hills until you get yeah, until you get like a thirty waterfall and you're just stuck there and you're like, huh, some efforts. So there is this sense that there's no there's no free lunch. You gotta put in, you gotta put in your time, you gotta put in your effort. I'm just gonna go down that hill, that drainage. I was not caught by surprise by all those No, I've walked down the note but many times. But I do like your optimism of like, oh, yeah, let's pass backpacks down this little short waterfall, hop that we can all climb down, and then you're like, oh, this next one is good, and then you look at it you started climbing down, and you know, Okay, maybe maybe I got a little ahead of myself. We made it out fine. Yeah, um, dirt life skilled when you're sweating outside seeing country well for this man is a poet, Harry Poet. I wish we had a website to post that Starbucks photo. Can we we put it on the me and dirt, myouth and Starbucks sweating. Not that that wasn't enough, but you feel satisfied it ran. Maybe after that picture my dad will want to hit up a Starbucks for the first time he's dead. Who will point out that he believes he's laughing and he is by descent an American born man. Try to tell me that he has never ever had a Starbucks coffee folders man or what is not even that he's tried to avoid it. He just says that it's just never happened. I don't know if that's really possible. I feel like you'll say to you something dude, like, oh hey, keep grabbing me a coffee, and they'll be that kind. The thing is is that my dad's not He hasn't ever been much of a coffee drinker. And I think that the way that we consume coffee, like our generation, how often we're like, get me a coffee. Let's go on the coffee shop like my dad, Like he would look at that and be like, that's seven hundred fifty dollars annually that I can instead be putting here like you're an idiot for going to spend that kind of money on cups of coffee and white you know, cuffs. And in a way, he's right, So I think that's kind of how he's gotten out of it. It's do you believe when he says that he's damn sure had something? Now? Those fias, that's something we should discuss sometimes. How via is the way to go for backpack coffee? Where did you do one? Did you get a concluder? Yeh yeah, I had the whole. I gotta joint. I got a Chart'll check back in. I want to find a word or a phrase to explain this. This this is this little bit. You can come up with it when you know when you try to like gauge someone's judgment, right, so you get to know someone you're trying to figure out in over time you're like, yeah, this is like a very reliable figure. I have a problem, not only one in this room, but I have a thing that I've identified over the years where what when someone's opinion, it's always that that you should that you look at it like always the easy thing, but they never say, like it to be easier too, but they always have a different reason. But then when you look you go like, oh, but your reason is easier. And over time you realize that every time issue comes up, they have the easy idea, but they never want to do it because it's easy. They always tried to sell you on it with a different explanation. It's like a rationalization of of something with some other ulterior motives. So you're like, hey, let's go up there and look for a buck, and they're like, man, I think we should go down there. And the next day you're like, um, hey, let's let's uh pick up these big, huge rocks and throw them and they're like, let's uh, I'll sick. We pick up these little rocks and throw them further because and over you go like, man, every time this guy has ever had a suggestion, it's always happened to be easier. I would say that's the problem of modernity right there. Yeah, I want you to think about it and think about and think of a way to describe people just don't want to work hard. I want something more like um, like a like a specific psychological I'll give you a little starter, all right, then we're done. This eco feminist Val Plumwood writes about that just an eco feminist does Oh is that a guy or a girl? Girl? I was gonna say, you can't be a bro eco feminist. Yeah I am. You know that. The next

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