00:00:01 Speaker 1: All right, let's jo up in you guys. Take it easy on me, all right, I'll try no promises for Dan though, you don't have to take it easy on me. Welcome to another edition of the Meat Eater podcast. I'm your honest to tell us I'm sitting in for Steven Ronella today. We're coming to you from the ZPC West offices in beautiful Bowsman, Montana. All Right, UM, I'm sitting here today surrounded by a few of the reasons why I love my job so much. And there are many reasons why I love my job. One of them is that I get to talk hunting with Steve know about five days a week. A lot of people think that would get old, but it does not. We just love talking hunting together. Um. Every creating adventures as part of my job description. It's just I love my job. But I also love it because I get to work with these fine people in this room right now. They're interesting, creative and thought provoking individuals. Um we have with us Any Racer, ZPC West producer, Britney Brothers, ZPC West producer and guest star on many Meat Eater episodes. Nicole call Tierry, social media manager of Meat eater and most things ZPC West and then Dan Dody, which is like the grand who's like the grand Wizard of ZPC West, and many more things I can't even get into right now. We don't have enough time for that. But um, the reason I have, we figured our topic today would be hunting. I don't even know how to say it right, but we're gonna throw it out there. Hunting with females, by females, female hunting, women hunting, however you want to put it. I just want to kind of discuss all that. And at first I was a little nervous about it, like, man, I'm surround myself with these three like kind of very intelligent, well well you know, knowledgeable, opinionated, you know women that I was thinking, hold on, like, that's how my life is. Every day. I'm like an office with them that I go home, I'm surrounding them, out numbered by women. So I shouldn't be nervous in this situation at all. Um. And I think for me, just to why I thought it'd be interesting, it's important for me to talk about this. It is because I do have two daughters, and you know, to me, for me to be a great dad to them. I think it's important to understand, you know, I try to understand women females. Um probably helps with me being a good husband too. And I also want them to hunt, you know, And so I think it's important for me and many of our listeners hopefully to like understand the perspectives, thoughts, feelings, motivations, all that stuff um from women hunters that surround women hunters, and uh, you know, it's just knowledge is power. So um, that's kind of why I want to do this. So first I kind of want to get you guys going and just have you explain kind of like what your background was to your relation to hunting before you were here, and kind of what brought you to, you know, being sitting here in this room today, and then what you like your current introduction to hunting was, you know, or if it wasn't like recent and it's not current, what it was many many years ago, um, brittany here, I got interested in hunting through meat either and before meat eater, I was completely anti hunting. Like I just I grew up in the South, um where just as like generalization, UM, I thought hunters were just sort of redneck bubba's who like to get drunk and shoot things. And even though I ate meat growing up, like I literally never equated the idea of hunting to meet UM, So I was so super against it. And then you know started, you know, went to film school and and started working at ZBZ, and at some point we picked up The Wild Within, which is the original Meat Eater show, and I was just like, oh god, we're doing a hunting show like this is like we're so much better than this. And then you know, had a big premiere party for a while Within and Steve's buddy's you know, cooked up all this awesome wild these wild game dishes, and I mean instant like venison diplomacy, Like I was an instant convert to hunting purely through the food. Um. Now I've been working with you know, Meat Eater and Steve and these guys for three years or so now, and like I just I shot my first animal this past fall with Annie who's here. UM shot my first rabbit with j Honest who's also here this fall, and um and did all shot too deer in Wisconsin. Um that was just on the meter episode. So um and I have a freezer full of meat now and I'm super stoked about that. That's long. Sorry. Yeah, UM, I come from a different background. I guess growing up in Ohio, it was really normal to hunt white tails. UM, so I was definitely around hunting. It wasn't familial to me, like it wasn't something that happened in my family. UM, but I had friends that hunted. UM. I moved from Ohio in the middle of high school, but I had actually signed up for a hunter's safety class when I was sixteen, so it was something that I was curious about back then. And then really in between that point of being sixteen and into my kind of mid twenties, UM, I was living in cities and going to college and just in more urban areas, so that exposure kind of died off. UM. I had friends. I went to Colorado State University, and I had friends that hunted ducks, like friends with um like duck hunting dogs. But it was never something I was really interested in. Then moving to I came to Bozeman for a corporate job in the fall, and UM, I mean just sort of by default when you come to Bozeman, you end up outside and I got into hiking, and UM remember having elk for the first time in a couple of friends houses and UM sort of being introduced to this idea of UM hunting as a source of meat that wasn't coming from the industrial complex. And that was really that like really kind of got the UM motor going. And then UM I did a backpacking trip on the Continental Divide by myself, and actually I had this really interesting moment where UM, I had been on the trail for a few days, I hadn't see ninny people, and I'm sitting at the top of this high field and I just eaten dinner in the sun like set behind the mountains, and UM cow elk walked into the field in front of me, and UM she was followed by a big bull and one by one, over hundred elk came out of the forest. And it was really strange because I froze and I realized, like on an instinctual level, I was like I am a predator, like it was. It was just a bizarre feeling. And after that night I decided that I wanted to hunt. And it was something that kind of had come out of this like just interesting moment. And I think all the different like introductions of my friends leaving up to that moment um, and then, um, I was looking for jobs and on gradulous I came across this ZPC position, which was like so serendipitous, And by that time I was really curious about hunting. I kind of made the decision that I wanted to hunt, and um, just becoming a part of the Meat Eater crew has totally giving me, given me this incredible education in background, and I like, I feel really privileged to learn from you guys. And then I was able to hunt for the first time this past season unsuccessfully. But um, I mean to me, I've identify as a hunter now, Like it's something that I want to do and it's something that I want to be a good ambassador for. Can I ask you a quick question? When you say you were sixteen you did the Hunter's Safety What was it there that like piqued your curiosity? Um, I had a really close group my Uh actually, my dad passed away when I was around when I was fifteen, and he was a big We had a lot of guns growing up in my house, Like that was really normal and um, but I had never grown up shooting or anything like that. But um, like throughout the time that he had cancered up until the time that he passed away. I had this really tight group of guy friends and um, they were all hunters and they kind of took me under their wing, and I like just I don't know. It was it was Midwestern. It was like very much like a community thing. And um, I think like a lot of their parents kind of took me and as like another kid, and it was just I don't know. It came from this community of guys that I was friends with, and um, there were a couple of us that were going to take the hunter safety class together, but we ended up moving before I did that. My turn. I grew up in um Montana and I wanted to be a veterinarian. And my dad whenever we drive by like roadkill, I would like almost start crying and he's like, oh, they're just sleeping like to the deer. And I was believed him, and uh, he started hunting. Um, he's not from here, but he started hunting probably five years after, maybe two years after we moved here. Um, dear and elk Um and got a lot of stuff and we were always eating like wild game. We had like a huge freezer in our garage and my mom and dad made awesome wild game meals, and I think eventually I decided I didn't want to be a vet and probably started realizing the deer weren't always sleeping on the side of the road. Um. And then I moved to vermont for nine years for high school and college, and there's also a lot of hunting there, but I wasn't as exposed to it, probably as I was when I was living at home. And then after college, I moved to Los Angeles, um, and I don't think I ever thought about hunting in the six years I lived there. Um. And then I moved back to Montana about a year ago and became friends with Brittany and she told me short on this hunting show and I was kind of like whatever, like not interested. And then I'm like a freelance producer. So this thing came up, Um this summer, this documentary. I'm allowed to talk about that. Yeah, we're making a documentary, surementary. And they needed help. So they called me and we met that it and I was available and I was like sure, I'll do it. But I still wasn't really a convert, like I was like whatever, like it's a job. Um. And then we went to Alaska for two weeks um to shoot a part of the dock with Steve, and it was like probably one of the I don't know, most like life changing experiences in my life, just like the hunting part and just the crew and being on Alaska. Sorry I confidentiality and stuff anyway, So um, that trip was just life changing. And I'd always thought about like where my food came from, and um, I read like some Michael Pollit in college and I got into different kinds of food movements. But after that I decided like I had to kill something and eat it, like just so I knew exactly where my food came from. So we got back I think the first weekend of September, and like two weeks later Nicole and I took Hunter's safety and then I don't know, Brittany and I both killed our first um dear like a few days in the hunting season together. Back up for a second, when you were on the trip in pow what what was was there a moment or what was sort of like the actual turning point? Can you remember or is it just sort of the whole thing? Did you feel it when you were there or did you feel it once you got home. Oh no, Like while I was there, I think I don't know. Every day it was just insane. I mean we caught and killed our food almost like every day. I've never done that. Like when Steve Um killed that black tailed deer, like we ate. I mean, I'm sure for hunters this as normal and now like that I've done it myself, it is, but we ate the heart and the liver like hours after he killed it. And that was like I had never in my life, even with fish, like done something like that. So that was just crazy. Probably that night when we were all on top of the mountain and like eating that and just all like really tired and haggard, and it was just like a celebratory event and eating that was awesome. And my perspective from that was like before and I became really close friends and we you know, I knew she was going on the shoot and I just kept saying like I can't wait to go hunting this fall, Like it's gonna be so fun. You should totally do it too, And she was kind of like, you know, like not really interested, and like the whole time we were on she was on the shoot, we were texting like the whole time. I don't know if you guys know, because like I knew everything that was going on, and just to the listeners a little bit of background, you had been on an elk hunt in the year before, was your first big game hunt. You had had that like initial experience to get you hooked right totally? Yeah, And um, I mean I've been interested in hunting ever since I started meeting it, like I said, but yeah, but anyway, the whole time, and I just remember I probably find it my phone just like a text like I want to go hunting now from her. That was just like I was just like what, Like that's also was so excited about it. And then like since when you got back, you know, like we just start planned, like started planning our our first hunt that we were going to go. That's one of the cool things about bullshooting Meat Eater and the documentary and all this stuff for the last few years is that the amount of life changing sentiments and life changing experience that people have out on these on the Meat Eater shoots is pretty much across the board, whether it's a camera guy or a producer or whatever, Like the experience of itself tends to change minds and change hearts a bit. Will you guys share your first hunting successful hunting experience when you guys had together? Well, yeah, because you guys doubled up, right, Yeah, do you want to tell it? I mean you can start it. I might correct you. Okay, So so forget the part where your your battery died either. Okay. So this is how it happened. So we had gotten sort of a tip from Dan of like a good spot to go to in Montana. We're not going to say where, um and anyway, it's to be like okay, like we're totally gonna do this. We woke up super super early, like it must have been three in the morning, three or four in the morning, and you know, we went to the gas station got gas. First of all, both of us are kidded out in like full camo and stuff. When I remember we go in and there's these dudes who are also probably hunting to you know, and like, I don't know about you, but I just felt like they're just giving us this looks like first light and I don't know what else. And then like the same thing with me and like are like because orange and then she had Tom's on her feet. The two guys are just looking at us, just like Tom's shoes, you know, like the the they give one like you buy one, and then they give a pair to like a slipper. Slipper. Yeah, they're just like slipper. Yeah yeah, just slide on yeah yeah yeah, slippers. So it was because like I wasn't ready to put my boots on or anything like that. You know, it so important to the story. That's true. It's true. Also, we were listening to like Adele or Beyonce on a trip because like we're probably the only hunters listening there's had just come out, and we were like groll into it. Oh yeah, that's great. Um. Anyway, yeah, so that was an interesting part. But so anyway, we we drive out there and we get out there and you know you have to like sign in or whatever, and we get out there and we go to where Dan houses to go, and they're it's just like probably twenty you know, does just running across this field. And we both had we had a buck tag and a doe tag and it could be either for either male or female white tail or a male mule deer. And we had the guide book with us. But we left in the car. We were like we both like got like super like I mean, must beend like buck fever. You know. We were just like, oh my gosh, my gosh, my gosh, so were gotten the back, you know, like put our boots on, got our got our rifles and like kind of like you know, sort of not really sprinting. We weren't running with guns, but we were walking very quickly. Um, and we get out there and like just so many them and like we have so many opportunities, and like something in my head was like wait a minute, how do you know if they're mule deer or white tail, Like what's the difference. And we're both like like they're white child, and then we're yeah, and we just so yeah, so like we just we couldn't. We just didn't know, and we were trying to get like service on our phone and and the guidebook was back in the car, so we're like like do we do we risk it? Like no, So we ran back to the car and like looking through the guidebook looking like on the internet, and just we're just like, Okay, they're definitely white tail, Like they don't have the ropey tail and they don't you know, bound the same way as mule deer. So we went back out there and like, they're all just crossing this this fence that private into private land where we can no longer hunt. And then maybe they're like maybe we had like maybe one or two other opportunities, but it was just too rushed and there was no way it was going to happen. So we were just like crap. So we knew that later in the afternoon that they would probably all come back over that fence and stuff, but we literally just sat out there all day waiting. Had we known ahead of time, but and actually I think we like at some point we were sitting in your car for a while and we're like, why don't we just go walk around or something. So we walked around and spook some deer, but we had like no idea where they went or where they were going and what we're doing. Um, but anyway, yeah, so then you know, later we we texted Dan. He was like, oh, you know, Sean and I want to come come out, and but we hunted in different spots and we were like, you know, we kind of want to favor this one spot where we had been hanging out because we had seen them all go down the hill, and we saw a ton of tracks towards the rivers. We figured they'd be coming back up the same direction at night. Yeah, so um, so yeah, that afternoon sure enough, like we saw them on the private land and they just kept coming closer and closer and closer. And I had my eyes on this group that was like, you know, I know, directly in front of us. But then Andy was like, whoa look over here, and so to the left there were like three deer just kind of all of a sudden, like almost like running towards us. So we sat We're basically sitting out in the open but just below them the line of the hill, so we weren't skyline or anything, but we were kind of out in the open um. And yeah, they're like running up and me like okay, oh my gosh, you know, like this is this is it, this is it, this is it. And we both set up on our packs and you know, like who's gonna shoot first? And you're like you shoot first, like okay, so um, we just waited and waited, wait until they hopped the fence, and I waited for the first one to take maybe like ten steps or so and just isn't about to shoot, and he's like, it's a buck. But I mean I had, you know, and I you know, beginner's mistake. I should have confirmed for sure before I shot, you know, but very luckily, like I had, both tags were both So I shot and it didn't. It stopped sort of for like a second, and then it kept walking. So I got nervous, and so I shot it again, and then it maybe took two steps and then dropped. And then the two other ones who were right that were right behind it were they're like very hesitant. Yeah, they were confused, like they didn't run away right way. And so I was like any Annie, like take a shot, take a shot. And we're both kind of just like what do we do? Like do we go to my deer now? Like you know what I mean? We were just very turned back around. They turned around and ran back over the fence, but then they hopped over two fences and then they stopped and they turned around and Britain was like, let's just maybe we should just wait here for a minute. I was like, really, okay, So we waited for like ten more minutes. Sure enough, they totally forgot what had happened, and they came back the exact same way. They came back the exact same way. I didn't I didn't hear that part of this. Yeah, so so yeah, they literally just came back across as if nothing had really happened. And so it was basically like Annie was set up and just waiting for one of them to stop, and one of them did. I can't remember for the first or second one kept switching between which one I was getting shot, but whichever when you chose, like, it dropped instantly, maybe like ten ft from my dear that I shot, and then we were just like it was so crazy. Um. And then yeah, and then we we had a little bit went over to them, and um, we pretty much butchered them. I mean, Dan Sean helped a little bit, and um, but we we you know, gutted them pretty much for the most part and quartered them out there with Dan and Shawn's help, and then we butchered the whole things ourselves. Car died because I shouldn't gloss over that my car to use the headlights because it was dark, and then my car died, so car Bettery died after Dan and Sean left. So we waited for your roommate to come get us. Celebratory Dear dance was and then we spent eight hours the next day completely butchering both Dear all ourselves, all with the help of the guide book. Yeah, the first couple of hours we're like, oh, this is the song. We were like dancing and singing or whatever. And then by like maybe like three or four hours and we were just like like dead silent, and then like the last couple of hours we both had like very sharp knives in our hands, just like looking at each other like my stabut. I don't know if I do this. It was really impressive. It was impressive to be out there. You know. I got out there and literally it wasn't more than half an hour after I hiked out farther past where you guys were, and I heard one shot. A little bit later heard a second shot. You know, I figured it was you guys. I didn't I didn't see anybody else, but you know, I came back into Dear and I was like, what the hell. It's really impressive. It was impressive. But I'll tell you, even if you like read Steve skuybook and you watch YouTube videos a second that thing is dead and you're like okay, like now I have to do this. Like I had no idea, Like I had forgotten everything with how to you know, got it and all that stuff. We did it. How was that process? You know, I'm like a very squeamish person and I hate the sight of blood. I passed out getting shots and like getting my blood drawn and stuff, and and I was really concerned that I was going to have a similar experience like whenever I first look at it my first year, and like, no, not even a single feeling. It was it was like very like automatic, like okay, this is what I have to do now, Like there was no part of me felt sick or disgusted at all. Um. I think the one time that I did feel slightly disgusted was actually in Wisconsin. I actually nicked the stomach when I was like and that was just like, well the smell unholy. But other than that, yeah, there's like no part of me at all that felt like you had to go to work, like I didn't have any time to think about it or feel bad about it or be grossed out. I was a little bit grossed out, like cutting the windpipe, which I made maybe Brittany do for me part. You're just like, Okay, I do this and I gotta do it like now. Totally. It was gnarly. It does become work pretty much right after that thing falls over dead. Yeah, it's gonna anti climactic a lot of ways, for sure. Nicole. You had a couple of days in the feel, but no no luck. You know, you said you said you had a shot and took a shot. I missed. Still though you you spent two days or more in the field. Um, I went two days deer hunting by myself and then one day with you, right, so three days and you got a shot in three days. So that two opportunities three days because there was the deer that um leannest took me out one morning. It was actually the same honey hole the Fibro and Nanny killed their deer on. And um, we just hadn't really seen any deer close by. And I was kind of walking behind you and I'm five six and you're what like six six, and um, so we were walking back to the truck and then you walked over to that little like knob and then you just said, shoot that deer. But I was behind you and shorter than you, so I didn't I hadn't even seen the deer yet. But then I got down and put my crosshairs on it. Um, but I just couldn't. Um, I don't know, it was just it was such an overwhelming feeling. Just I mean, it's a big difference to go from shooting at the range and looking through your crosshairs to like having like a live animal in your crosshairs. So that was like a crazy feeling. Um. And then after that you figured out that my scope was on full magnification and so um that was good to know. And then um, when I went out by myself, it was around that same area, which is like a pretty easy hunting white tail area, and um, the opportunity that I ended up getting, I had actually gone early in the morning, and it's a really high pressure area. So if you don't get there first. Um, you know, like the spot that I went to you for that morning, Like, I opened the door to my car and a shot rang out, But um, I had woken up early enough. I just realized I didn't have any hunter orange, so I needed to go to like a gas station and find one, and and luckily I did. But um, it just put me behind. I think that if I had remembered that point, then I would have made it there first. But um, I actually went and got breakfast somewhere, and then I decided, like when I came back, like you could just tell like all the deer were just moving around anyway, Like I think they were just really disrupted because it was so high pressure and I was just seeing deer everywhere and it was like, you know, eleven thirty in the morning, and I was like, well, I mean, what are the chances that the deer are going to go back when you know, kind of break that like crepuscular routine that they're having, like probably a pretty high chance, like they're constantly being bumped and moved around. Um, So it was funny. I actually went to a different spot I will I went one of those days, I went um to about seven different spots just to check them out. So I kind of drove UM. I found like some weird elk spots where you could shoot elk from the road, and it was like, I don't know, that was actually a little bit disturbing. And then um, just because there were people that were just blatantly breaking the rules. They were like driving out to pick up there at carcasses they were you know, on people's black management land and um, you know, people drinking a shipload of beer and you know, just doing things that I'm like, Okay, well that's not not really management for those that you don't know as a program in Montana where it's like between private land holders and the game fish, and they basically set up a system where you can, like Brittany was talking about signing in, you're just signed into these properties, sometimes you know, months ahead of time, sometimes just the morning of. And then there are special rules so that you know, you you you know, to respect the property. And so one of the big things is like some of these propertis you actually can't leave animal parts at all and um, which you can't definitely can't drive out on the agg fields and you and people were doing that, and people were doing that. And then when I was driving on that particular road where you could hunt elk, there were like organs just on the road, like people just like left them out there. And so it was just it was kind of a weird scenario for me to see. Um, but I figured out like where the white tail places where, and that's where I went back and Um, so I actually went to this little area where there was like a little draw and as I was driving back from that breakfast, like coming back, Um, it was kind of near one of the sign in boxes. Well too, deer went from property that I couldn't hunt on to property or I could hunt on, like right in front of my car. So, um, I just immediately pulled up, parked, started getting my gear together and um that was actually when the guy pulled it next to me. So I'm by myself, I have my border calling in the car. I'm I'm just very like yoga pants and a sweatshirt and surrells. Like I've definitely not decked out in camo. Um and like many hunters aren't. Yeah, you know, you know, like I keep these parts, I like to keep it casual. Um what do you mean by that? Around these parts people on here don't wear a camera. Oh yeah, and I think, well, these parts being like, I feel like it's more I don't trying to think where there's more heavily cameo clad folks. Um, there definitely are a lot of embozement you know that put a lot of effort into you know, high quality camouflage. But I feel like here and like where I grew up in Michigan and Wisconsin. Like a lot of the guys I grew up hunt with, like didn't wear any camouflage. It was like blue jeans, carhards, red flannel, you know where your orange, you know, especially rifle hunt like it's not really necessary. They look like the original hipsters and all their pictures car haar pants and buffalo clad shirts. It's that big like red black plaid. All right, I'm right, did her? You along a little bit? But you got an opportunity, So I got an opportunity. Shot over over his or her back? Yeah? What my hook? You're hooked. I'm hooked. Yeah, I'm excited to go back. And um, I already bought my licenses and I'm putting in for some tags. And that's been a fun process. You got a turkey hunt this year. I put in for a turkey tags. We'll see if I get one. But I also bought an over the counter turkey tag. Same so excited. Six bucks and he's shaking her head. You can't see he's not interested in turkey hunting. But I just give it time, you know, like with the whole hunting thing in general. You know, she didn't she came around eventually, some maybe she should come around. So would you at least go with Brittany to see what it's all about. Maybe I don't know. It just doesn't I don't get it. What don't you get I don't know. I just don't. Everyone's so into it. These guys are so into it. I just don't. I've never even done it. But it's like, and I can see that a little bit, like it's not like this just watching it doesn't seem super exciting, but like their excitement. Plus, I don't know, it's just like a different type of hunting. Like to me, that's I just want to try every type of hunt, every type of understand I was there for five years as all my friends around me were just like, you know, ELK, yeah that's cool. But dude, Turkey, let me tell you, man, like, how come you're not coming with us in April? And eventually I just you know, you know, I figured it out. I think you will too. You'll come with us this spring. It'll be it'll be yeah, you'll come back to the office and be like, what's up, and you'll just answer with you can't wear you can't wear all your hot pink that you wear to work every day though you're like, no, no, I want to go then all right, So those stories you guys just described, they were interesting, but to me real looking at it from my uh just say, uh, you know, with with no filter, you know, or no. I'm not trying to say here, dam just a very like like I don't know what. Um No, I'm not gonna know. I'm not trying to get out of offending you. Um. But it's uh, the stories themselves really aren't there. It doesn't matter that you guys are females, I guess up to this point, it's like it's really their stories of inexperienced and you know, beginner hunters, you know, and Dan and I did it many many years ago, plenty of people. I was leading up to this podcast, I was thinking a lot about how my brother got into it, you know, and I feel like I mentored a lot my brother a lot. In the last five years, I'm getting into hunting the same way I have a lot with Britney brothers. And really it's I don't know if there's been any differences whatsoever. I mean, it's been very very similar, you know, the same kind of amount of time and they're going to the range. And I think that like the the you know, the bell curve of of learning has been very similar between the two of you guys too. You know it took him. The first thing that jumped out of me with your all your stories is that all of you whent On did it on your own this year, which I think would be interesting to look at statistics of men or women hunters to see how many people have the balls or ovaries to go out and really honest to go do it like, because that's one of the biggest blocks to getting into hunting for anybody is not having a mentor or not having people to take you. And that's what people always talk about nobody. There's nobody to take me or show. You all did it on your own, which is super cool, super super cool. Well, I think like the door was open for us, Like I wouldn't have gotten hunting by my Like it's just sort of like um taking the first step, like you honest took me out that one day, and then after that I was like, Okay, I can't go do this, you know, and it's just having it's just having somebody's vote of confidence in a way that they're like just m kind of path in the book. Literally, I guess I think Annie doesn't want hunt turkeys because it's she doesn't think it's a womanly activity. She thinks that it is less womanly. I'm usually concerned about how womanly the activities I'm doing are, and I'm just like, oh, does this womanly? Okay, I'll do it. I would say that's probably the biggest concern for all three of us. We're all very feminine, and I don't actually wear all pink black. Now that you guys have made that state thing that Stafford had, that introduction to hunting, you pretty much all consider yourself as hunters. Any do I consider myself? I don't. Oh yeah, I kind of feel like a poser if I if I was saying that just because I don't know, it's been like eight months since I even hunted, doesn't I make you a hunter? Is going skiing wants to make you a skier? No? No, I've not gone skiing probably ten times, and I consider myself a skier. Now you identify as a skier, and like some part of me, yeah, like along with all the other things that I do. You know, I think if you have intent to learn something and I continue to it to do it, then I think that you can attach a part of yourself to that identity. Like, um, I think that I might tell people I'm a hunter, but I'll be like, you know, I'm a new hunter. I like, I still haven't killed something. But I don't think that necessarily like takes a kill to like make you a hunter, you know, because hunting isn't about killing action, and nor does the amount of time you know, spent doing it really make you a hunter either, because there's an amazing amount of hunters out there that hunt two or three days every year and that's it, and they certainly identify as a hunter. You know. Yeah, you could say like I'm a beginner hunter twice maybe, Okay, so we're close. So my question is, then, has that changed your view a lot of things but mostly just like overall, like you're just general view of life now that you're like a hunter, do you feel like you just view Is there any or anything in particularly you can point out you viewed differently now as a hunter? Oh, I mean a hund. Food? Yeah, I think food is like the biggest thing I mean one, like I haven't gone to a grocery store to buy meat at all, but whenever I do, like look at meat and the meat that I've like again, like any and I both butchered our deer from the whole animal down to like individually packaged pieces, and it's like, I know exactly like what part of that animal, like the meat that I'm eating, and when I go out to the restaurant, I think about the same thing. And I've been watching a lot of like Netflix food areas and reading a lot about you know, just where our food comes from lately. Um and yeah, it's just so fascinating now that I that I have done the whole experience from field to table, Like that's just totally life changing for me. Before uh well, I you know, mostly lived in big cities. Um So in New York, I had a tomato plant and I had some herbs. So sure I had a little guarded but like and that was so rewarding, like to have start from like the you know, little tomato seeds and then to eat the little tomatoes that I got. I mean, they weren't great tasting, by the way, They're terrible, but um, but that was still like super rewarding. I was so excited about that. UM. So I guess I have had that same like sense a little bit. UM. I'm sure in like a larger scale, gardening is um a lot more tasking then buying some seeds and putting them in a pot and putting them in my window. UM. But I don't know. Hunting is to me, it's different because you're actually like killing something and then dealing with a lot of blood and guts and UM yeah, I don't know. I think, Yeah, that's definitely been the biggest life changing part. I think for me, like changed my experience with the land, like and I think that that's really where it came from. Like it came from um doing a lot of hiking around the state, by myself deciding I was going to do this backpacking trip, by myself going down into the wind rivers, hiking in Yellowstone, backpacking Yellowstone, by myself backpacking in the beaver Head, like where I saw the elk Um. I think it just changes the way that you look at the land and like your interaction with animals, and the thing that I thought while I was on the trail was it would be way more fun to be like going and like paying attention to animal behavior and being able to know like how are these animals like moving, like where are they in the daytime? Where are they at night? And um, And probably a little bit of that goes back to just my experience with being riding horses my whole life and like really paying attention to their behavior, like I always loved her behavior and um, learning all of those dynamics. Um. And when I sit and watch a herd of elk, I mean you see all a lot of those same interactions. So I like it from that kind of behavioral side, and I like it from this side of hiking and being in new places and being in places that other people aren't going. Like that's really what makes me excited about it. You know, I noticed too before any go sorry, is like from from the first meat Eat episode that we did at the cook one, like sitting there and glassing with Steve and Janas and all those guys, and they'd be like, there's there's one, there's one, there's a deer. I was just like, I have no idea what you guys are looking at. Now. I feel like I drive around and I'm just like, there's a deer. There's an antelope, you know what I mean? I see them like really really well, and like I pointed out to this to the My family was just in town over Christmas when we were driving around and I would point them out and they're like, how in the world did you see that? And like I have no Like I think it just comes from developing exactly. Yeah, but so that was yeah again, But it's like that connection to land that I really I really love. Get your farm life a game. How about relationship between men and women now that you guys are hunters? Has that changed at all? Like dating? Like do you guys look at guys differently or like maybe judge a guy whether he's a hunter or not. Um. Well, again, like having having lived in big cities for so long, it's like not something that you would find and really in a in somebody there. But now that I moved to Bozeman, I mean, I don't know, it's I guess it's um it's definitely an attractive actor about somebody if I'm like interest in dating them, whether or not they hunt. But it's not like it's not like a deal breaker. I mean, it's it's cool too. Then that just the idea of like maybe you know, you can go hunting with this person and share this like fun experience and meaningful experience that you both enjoy. But it's not it's not make or break gentlemen. So if you're listening, put the phone number down in the notes. I mean, I think the funny thing with that is like, um, I don't know, I like viewing viewing it for more of a bird's eye rather than like personal experiences that like when you're on online dating sites and like you're scrolling through guys. I mean, if the first picture that you have in your Tinder profile is you with like a giant bloody deer, I mean, even if someone who wants like I'm like, what are you thinking? Like what are you doing? Um? And I mean it's I think that it's great that like, um, people attach so much of themselves with this identity. UM. But I've also talked to some guys that I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, like I went on my first white tail hunt and like kind of tell them the story and they're like, oh, that's cute, you know what I mean, And and I find that like kind of demeaning. So uh, you know, I think that it takes. I think it takes a certain kind of guy to be around, um, like self starting women. And I would say all three of us are self self starters, you know, like we're all going to go out and do things and it doesn't matter whether we're a girl, and it doesn't and we don't do it because of a boyfriend that's like, oh, come on a hunt with me, you know. Um, And I think that that's actually like really different. I think that there's something really outside of the box about that. But I mean to that effect, like I would I personally would rather date somebody who's going to go on these adventurers and like want to be a part of it. But I was raised to step up to the table um and think that I had in an equal presence there Um. I don't know. I think that I think that factors into dating, and I think there are a lot of people that aren't used to that. I was just gonna say, just with the you know, tender online dating profiles instead of seeing dudes with like this is just a suggestion to any guy who's a hunter and on online dating, like don't show your picture of your big black but you should show a picture of you like cooking some delicious meal because it's like, okay, you can cook for me. You hunt and you cook done salts and the bigger the fish, like we get it, you know, if you're presenting us with the fish, like we're taking all of that literally, so thanks, thanks for that. Okay, profiles guys, I mean, but there's a lot of fly fishermen out here, so like it's literally like just a dude like presenting. Like there's there's two kinds. There's like the big toad that they got there, or there's like the funny guy who holds up like the like fucking mint. You know, it's, um, it's funny. Like there are just a lot of like funny things. And I am and yeah, yeah, you know, well, I think what they say about big fish is big pan. Well, if you're eating fish, if we're eating fish, you do get more made for you with the ten pounder for the five pounders. So I think that it's nice that guys are trying to be providers. Yeah, we're to have one here that had experience with the with the female, uh you know equivalent you know, with the with the tinder and the like the female that's like out there doing that same thing, but we don't unfortunately. You mean an example of a woman who's got a fish on her profile, yeah, or a dead animal or you know whatever. You know, so we could just speak to the other side of that. But the pictures I have a picture of me, like shooting a clay on mine. I don't know. I mean, I'd rather have somebody like I know that I am like passionate about going out and just doing fun stuff like you three are representative of what I think is a very important portion of the hunting public at this point in time, which is the women are the fastest growing I guess what demographic within the hunting community right now. And the other big statistic that jumps out of me, and this comes from Random Williams, who you guys did a podcast with, But the other major major factor in getting both hunting approval and converse to people start hunting is food. And every all of you mentioned that as your first thing. So I think you kind of like right in the sweet spot of where growth and the hunting industry and the acceptance of hunting and a larger cultural I mean, you're kind of it, you know, You're you're right there which is interesting, super interesting. Yeah, and I think that Raindall actually helped me out and got me a bunch of interesting stats for this podcast. And you know, you guys all mentioned foods like a major motivator, you know. And he was telling me about how, you know, women are in surveys twice as likely to say that they hunt for meat, you know, um as compared to men, you know, which is very very interesting to me. You know why that is? You know, you guys like just suck right towards that, you know, um, and it's up to almost eleven now our female hunters, so one out of Yah, it's amazing for meat eat viewers. That's awesome. Sounds really cool. Yeah, it's way cool. That makes me proud. Um. Moving on, we really haven't gotten to anything really sticky yet. I'm ready yesterday in this morning. I just I want to be well informed. What's up with the uh so you guys are not hunters and how you're portrayed um in the media, and do you appreciate how you're like like the way that you're being targeted or you know, how you know, ads are geared towards you in the current hunting media. And then like the current representation of the female hunter on TV. I don't watch a lot of hunting TV myself, but you just kind of see what's out there on the internet, you know, and definitely who I see is usually not who I'm here talking to with right now. Yeah, I just want to get you guys to take a look on that. I don't have a ton I also don't watch alat of television or I should maybe watch more, but I have like a very clear image of kind of what that person is, and I don't know, it's kind of I don't know if you should talk about this more like those the Barbie Hunter. Yeah, Like, yeah, I think two things that bother me most and they probably bother you guys too. Are one the word huntress, Yeah, and to what's when I think of a huntress, I think of like a you know, bimboie sexy sexual about it? Yeah, huntress who's not there, who's not there for herself? Who's there to like be sexy? Two men, you know what I mean? And to shrink it and pink it like that is like the like that's like the marketing slogan are women's hunting clothing and gear? It's yeah, it's discussing. I mean it's like, Okay, the pink is not disgusting, but like, but the fact that it represents, like that's supposed to represent like women hunters, Like I don't see the value of pink at all in the field, you know what I mean, Like I would rather just wear camo and then like hunter or whatever, I need to wear. Pink is extraneous to me. And um, I mean I get the shrinket thing obviously, like we're smaller generally than than dudes. But um, but yeah, I just don't like that. It's that's and it's and it's not just hunting. It's like, you know, marketing to women across the board in in any thing, you know, any consumer item, but of the whole problem, right totally. Um, But that to me, between the sex stup you know, Barbie hunting and the pink and you know, all that kind of stuff, Like I don't want to be I don't want to be marketed that way. Like what's interesting to me is, um is not that. And I don't want to name names of like women who do that in the hunting media because we already know who we're talking about. For the most part, but what I think is, um, what I do like in the media is um, you know, people like uh, Jennifer Lawrence and um, Hunger Games, you know what I mean, or like Brave in the Disney film, you know what I mean, Like those are like just different representative different representations of women hunters. Um. And you know, obviously Hungry Games isn't all about hunting but hunting humans mostly the most dangerous game. But um, but like I like those resist not really I mean no more than I mean they didn't hire me to start in it. But you know what I mean, that's not really she's she's you know, like she's not wearing anything that's like revealing or anything like that. And not to say that women shouldn't wear those kinds of clipe. Women can wear whatever they want. But I don't think within hunting media, um specifically, and I mean being in social um for meat Eater, I definitely like we follow a lot of different accounts and UM, like definitely like part of what I do is like looking into media and finding out what trends are, and um, there are a lot of I think really cool and interesting female hunters. I mean, I've always liked Rachel Tila. I think that she is really interesting. Um, she's really like the one that stands out to me personally. But I think, like what I think what's happened in like a lot of like like Instagram and um Facebook, is that it becomes like the this like brigade of selfies. Like it becomes a girl who's like rifle hunting in camo with paint on her face. And you know, I know, um from a basic hunting background that that's probably like not necessary. So I mean, I think that there are a lot of and I have a real problem people are like, oh, like they need to show real women. Like I believe that these women are real women. They're just they're just playing to their sexuality. And I think that that sells like sex cells. But I, um, I don't know, it would be nice to have like more visible hunting role models for like your girls growing up that are like thoughtful and um, not narcissistic. And and I think that like that's really the key is that I think that when you look at a lot of those profiles are kind of like these want to be um celebrities or you know, even the people that are like minor celebrities. I think some of them are good role models, but I think that, um, like when I'm looking at forty five selfies in a row, like I've learned nothing and I don't know maybe how to do your makeup? Yeah, and then yeah, then it's not about hunting and it's not about like the message that your trade being like a sex kitten look at me. Yeah, um yeah. I mean I think my personal take on like women, role models and mentors is that, you know, like whatever way you look at it, like, okay, so hunting is a sub subculture like it may have at one point then you know, the main culture in our society, but now it's it's decreasing and now so if I would consider it like a subculture, and I think anybody who participates in a subculture of any kind becomes an ambassador for that subculture. And I just when I think about what I look for in a role model, or I think role model maybe puts like too much pressure on it, but like a mentor is somebody, Yeah, it's just like somebody who's an ambassador, an ambassador, and that's like that's more what I want to see is like women who are ambassadors for the sport, not for selfies and you know in camo, but like women who are paint a picture of that ideal, like who who would that ideal be? Who would it be billed her from the ground up? And like an Instagram account form or something. I mean, I could think of a lot of like personal female mentors that maybe nobody who listening to this podcast can relate to. But um, I guess just sort of characteristics and attributes. Oh, I mean, um, I guess somebody who is just like extremely ethical. And that's a very broad term because everyone's personal hunting ethics are different. But um, somebody who acts in a way that they have, you know, nothing to hide, I guess, and that the other people admire, not just men, not just women, but men you know admire and um and who I guess, Yeah, again, like don't make it about their appearance, but make it about their actions. Like I want to see more of like what what they're doing is good. And I'm sure there are like again, like hunting women in hunting who whose actions are genuine. But I feel and maybe that's just me, but I feel like so much more distracted by the way that they look and the way that they present themselves and like what they're their actions are if that makes any sense, you know what I mean. And I think like the perfect example is like when we had barbed On meat Eater and she took Steve City grass hunting, and she, you know, she showed him like this totally different way of hunting. Like that was like a really interesting, um relationship between them. And I think that it's kind of like what what women do a lot, and we just come at things and I mean she obviously like learned from her dad and like, and I think that, um, there are a lot of women and hunting the learned from their parents, and I think that that is a really beautiful thing. Um, it's awesome to read about people who are taking not just their sons hunting, but they're taking their daughter's hunting. And I'm it seems like that's something that's changed over the past like thirty years. Um. So I don't know, I don't I feel like in the media, like I have no expectation that I'm going to actually like see more of these people, but like on a level of someone who's a reader, or on the level of someone who just like developing community, like the type of women that like I want to be around or like women like Brittany and Anny and people like Barb and like people that I can learn from, you know. But I just I don't discount men from the process either. I just I think that like, there are a lot of UM, really incredible guys out there like doing cool things and hunting, and I think there are a lot of guys that UM aren't. You know, well, I think it's super important to um establish or find or highlight really good solid women hunters that have a lot to say and have a lot to show. And you know, just I'll put it out there that I'm looking for you. I have the baby on the way, not to date, but to uh but to uh you know, continue this this effort that we're making here too, to put out a certain type of hunting ethic and hunting culture that we make at Meat Eater and the rest of our stuff. And and you know, it is important. I've been we have been looking for a character for for a female hunting it's called role model or or or individual for a while and UM still looking just just to put out there. And I think it is super important because we just interviewed, um, this really amazing woman in Washington, d C. For this documentary we're making, and and she has a beautiful hunting story and a beautiful like background, and her her understanding of the whole things really touching and really heartfelt and very smart. And she shared very clearly that she doesn't she doesn't have anybody too. She doesn't she doesn't feel she has. She she called an identity crisis inizens, a hunting identity crisis, because she didn't see others um and feel and hear others that she would consider peers or that she would look up to. And I think, I think it's it's really important what you're doing. You want to you want to feel a part of something. And I think you know, in our media state, we do need we do need to put people. I mean you look at you, look at Steve, and how many people right into us every single day of Like, man, I really connect to this community because of because of what you guys do. And it's it is important. Yeah, I think it's important to feel represented, like no matter you know, consciously or unconsciously, like especially when you're young and you're growing up like your girls for example, like you look whenever time and in any kind of media form, like you look for someone who who looks like you or who who like who you want to model yourself after. And I haven't found that person in hunting as in the female role. I mean, Steve has been like incredible mentor for me. You Danielle has are both incredible incredible mentors for me, and I wouldn't change that for the world. But I do, like I would be lying if I didn't say that, I'm I still always look for some kind of you know, female mentor in in you know whatever hunting or or hunting media or I mean any media and any media for for for that matter. But um, but yeah, I guess I haven't really found that necessarily in in the hunting he has done for for women in the fighting world in the past two years or three years. I mean, it's just it's incredible what's happened there. But she's an incredible fighter, like she's not just an incredible women fighter like I don't or female fighter. I don't know, Like I think, I don't know, if maybe there were more women hunters like to be role models, maybe I would feel more like attracted not sexually just like to them, but like for me, like Steve and all you guys are that community. For me, I don't feel like have an hunting identity crisis because for me, like this works and this fits, and everything you guys are doing and Steve does on his show to me is like how I want to be as a hunter And it doesn't really matter what gender anyone is to me personally. No, I totally understand, and I agree, Like I don't say I'm not I'm not saying I I don't feel like I don't have like a tribe in like the hunting world tribe that like other people could go and find, Like I don't know. I mean, it's like I feel like you kind of have to You either end up in your own community or you have to really seek it out. And so I feel for somebody who doesn't have UM what like we're able to have here. And I would guess that meat eaters um special in the fact that there are so many women that work on it um and that there have been women working on it all along, you know, on a behind the scenes basis, and I think that it's um. I mean, that was one of the things that got me really excited to work in meat eaters that I interviewed with Britney and Helen the week before they went elk hunting, and um, I was excited for you guys and you know it and it was such a great show and it. Um. I don't know, those are the stories that need to be out there, you know. But I think that more women are coming to it. Um. I think it's a hard thing to come to you on your own, and to be honest, like, I don't know if I would have had the ability or like confidence to hunt if I hadn't been working at Meat Eater, Like I would still say that I wanted to hunt, but if I hadn't been working here, like, I don't know that I would have gone hunting last of all. So that's definitely another side of it. I think we have a we have a built in community for sure. Yeah, And I don't think, you know, I don't think it's necessarily about like trying to divide like men and women, but I don't. I also think it's it's sort of silly not to have, you know, to to say like, oh, I'm I'm gender blind or I'm color blind, Like I think it's your post feminist you know. I don't like I don't think that that should should be Like I think we should celebrate our our differences and our similarities, you know what I mean, and doesn't. But it doesn't mean that I want to be treated any differently. But it's like I think it would be still particularly because women are still the like minority in hunting, I think we do need to take like that extra step to just be like, hey, you know what, like come and join our group and and so that's why I think, you know, I I identify as both a hunter, like in the general sense and as a woman hunter and hope that other women see that, you know who maybe just don't necessarily feel as comfortable like as as say, like we were joining in with you guys hunting and stuff, and um who who do need like that that female um sociality? Like one am I trying to say? But um? But yeah, And like I just I hope that I don't know, I can be that too somebody for your daughter's honest, do you think they do you think do you want the female hunt role model for them? Does that matter to you? I think if they, you know, at some point might have a question that I just you know, might not be able to answer. You know, as a male, and it might be hunting related, and at that point they just might need I mean that's a big reason that my wife is, you know, continuing her hunting education so that she can have that conversation with them and explain things, you know. And so again I don't think it's necessary that they need them, but it would be nice if like the the need came up that you know, you could say, yeah, we'll go talk to her or go look at her writing, you know whatever it might be. Well, I think that like traditionally, like if you like a traditional media, like a lot of it is designed to kind of pit women against each other and put us in competitive places. And um, you know, I think that like when you think about like these the Barbie hunters, Um, I mean, they're not designed to be attractive for women, like they're designed to be to be pulling men in. And that's um that creates a competitive kind of environment in itself. So I think it's like it's interesting when um, women like us who don't necessarily ascribe to that kind of ideal. I mean it's not that I'm not going to like put on makeup and wear a dress and like look nice Um, I'm just not going to be like dress like in the mud with my right uf right, But I I think it is important to like to recognize that, Um, I mean a lot of those girls who where we might not necessarily be pointing fingers at, I mean, they could be sitting and having a really great intellectual conversation alongside us. So, UM, I would say that appearance is the thing that gets you followers or like might be the thing that like bring you to the top of the list, and especially in a world where of hunters are men. Like I mean, if you put an you know, a normal woman in a hunting show that didn't have that appeal, it would be interesting to me if that show would succeed. Like and I mean that's really the basis, Like do you guys, um, you know, are they going to trade in like what they've been advertised their whole life? I mean it's the same thing we've all been advertised, you know, like it's it's what we're supposed to be. We're supposed to be the thin um hair extension, plump lips you know, yeah exactly. But West Office, I will say, like one thing about um, you know, will men relate to two women in media and this is a very broad example and um, but I think it's interesting how many more women are now, like are starring in action movie roles. For example, the most recent Star Wars that came out. I mean it's about a woman and a black man, you know what I mean. I mean, you see a lot of that. But like in Star Wars, and that movie broke box office records, you know what I mean? And again like the Hunger Games, like I think mad Max. Yeah, Like, I think, actually men are interested in seeing women in these socially male roles in the media, and hopefully it's not that they're super honestly like those I think that those stars that you noted are also very hot and sexy in that same but you know what, like men in all those roles are the same. I mean, they're also just as attractive. And I don't think like in Hungry like again, they're not wearing No, I didn't go watched Wars to to see you know, tits and asked like the Star Wars asked for the story was for the character. I think there's an element of transcendence no matter what that you know, people can get down to in with hunting particularly, it's such a human activity. It's a transcending activity. It's not a gendered activity. I mean, we can label that afterward, but the actual experience of from a media perspective, Let me ask you this question because I want to know if maybe you guys, could you guys ever foresee any advantages going into the field and being successful in killing something? Because you ever see an advantage? Being a woman's play a very big role because as a fly fishing guide, you know, I saw it over and over again if you took the same you know, experience of fishermen, and it could be beginners and it could be experienced. But because I often would have clients that were um couples who have been fishing together for many years and both were very experienced. Could each cast, you know, way past the bank, get all your flies lost, and you know, sometimes put where they had to be. But if you had to bet, just like who's going to catch the most fish, it was the woman And it was usually because her lack of ego would allow her to listen to the guide take those directions and be like that, I'm gonna listen to him because that or her if the guy was God was a gal, But that's gonna help me catch fish, And so they would end up catching more fish. Would often make for very frustrated husbands male counterparts. But like, so I could see that because you could like put your ego aside and think more clearly through the you know tactic or you know, however you want to look at, you know whatever, it was ahead of you to challenge. I think, I mean, I think coachability is definitely something that's built into women. We were like I mean, I don't know, I guess for me personally, I grew up playing sports, so it was a natural part of what I did. I maybe I shouldn't speak for all women. I think that like, um, when people talk about I've heard people say and I haven't seen like anything empirical. If it's out there, please let me know that. Um, women are better shots when they are learning how to shoot, because it's not I mean, for us, it's just something that we're learning how to do, and for minutes perceived as something that's the masculine. Oh, I should be good at shooting. You know, Um that I took a bad shot on And I'm saying, like, when you go out to the range, like and you're like kind of like learning that like basic like the basics, Like it seems like, um, I don't know that I took my wife shooting this year for the first time, and um, she shot better than I did, but she took it was to thirty minutes to shoot four shots shoot myself the same way I feel like, I mean, there's just like a different type of like uh, perfectionism that has like kind of been fostered than us and like kind of a from a gendered perspective, I don't know. This is all like anecdotal, so like it's it's funny because I think from like an experiential place, like I know that I'm a really coachable person and I know that I'm like a person who's open to that. But I also know like other women that I'm like you could never tell them what to do. So it's it's it's a big also, like again, like anecdotally, when I was hunting with Doug in do the dough that I shot, I mean, what I guess wasn't seen in the footage was like we saw her, you know, very like um, maybe I don't know, maybe like ten minutes or so before and Doug was just like, all right, move over here, moving here, and she had no idea where we were, and I was like, she's gonna walk right in front of me, Like I don't want to like get up and rustle around, you know. But he kept being like, and this is nothing against Doug. I loved Doug, and I listened to him, you know, no, no problem, take his advice. But I just like, I don't know if this is a good example of either I've just had the patience to wait, or like I was just completely ignoring his advice. But he just kept telling me, like move and get into this position, and I just I wanted to wait until because I just had this feeling that she was going to walk right in front of me, and she did, and I shot her. You know, I don't know like what that's if that's either proving or disproving at the point that we're making, but I don't know, just another anecdote, but that was that being a woman helped you in that situation. But I'm just you know, what you guys are talking about, like whether women are more patient to wait for a better shot or were for more coachable. Again, I don't know that was just I think hunting and hunting media has been like really male focused, so like we don't necessarily like have all um of the baggage. I guess of like having somebody tell us what we should be as marksman or as like a fly fisherman. I mean you think of all those words, like I mean marks, I mean it's not marks women. It can be, but like if you're going like just gonna say it like man, Like the word man is attached to all those words, and I like language though, those are just like kind of some of the things that stick out. But I don't know, I think that like sometimes you get so high level and just going back to like what we're saying initially, like all of our first hunting experiences, like they weren't gendered experiences, they were hunting experiences, So, um, what's the benefit to that. I think maybe the benefit is the fact that we are in a society like where we can go out and do those things and I can um own a gun and rent an apartment on my own and um no vote. You know, we live in like a different world with different opportunities, and I think we're allowed to be more creative within those opportunities than women have been before. So um, yeah, I think that we are like a new We are new hunters and kind of the biggest sense of that word. You guys are miss sing out here. Let me tell you this is going Okay. You guys haven't made as female owners. Okay, just on the basis of permission. I knew you're gonna do this. You can like landowners and being like hide you answered the door, and you and your other self was there talking to you like that, maybe you wouldn't say yes you could. Maybe women had come to that door before that. Maybe if three thousand women had came to come to that same door, the answer would be different. Right, yes, for sure. So but that's just where we stand right now. Women's a woman that answers the door, well exactly. I think it would still play on your back. We're a little bit more to us. I mean, women like hunting. Women hunting is so because women are supposed to be feminine, right, They're supposed to be like providers in or not? What am I trying to say? I had written it down anyway, but respectful and like less of a threat and less likely in I think my eyes, at least like go out and trash my property, leave my gates open. Yeah, absolutely that other people are doing that like I was when I saw the elk hunters. To give you guys time to think about what you guys want to say in closing comments, I'm gonna start off with Steve's closing hunt comments. It's gonna come back to the advantages of being a woman associate with hunting. He feels so strongly about it that he told me he was here right now, no offense, he bogart the conversation. He told me that he would become a woman to gain those advantages. Get out. Don't even get you started on this defini. Can you just hear her he's making She would have a very slender frame. He would make a good look again, ros amazing amount of hunting properties to hunt on for free. I would never use my gender or sexuality like to my advantage in that situation. Ever, even if it was like to get like, I don't even know what the biggest buck in the world, we don't need to here. I mean, I mean I think that like I don't know, I mean, I think that's a statement of inexperience. Oh yeah, because hunting permissions are you need them everywhere all the time. They're great to have. The more the better. I'm had a couple of people off her, but um, his whole about that, it's gonna go ahead and pull it up. I forgot about that's right. Well, Okay, So I when we began working with Randy Newburgh, part of what we were helping out with hunt Talk and UM, part of what I was doing is going on to hunt Talk, and um like reading Randy's hunting stories and like figuring out how to factor that into a social and UM, I'm nosy and very curious, and I started reading like some of the comment threads, and UM, that's it's a really cool community. And so I got involved by just opening my big mouth and um, you know, just challenging some of the status quo statements that we're going on in there. And I mean there are a lot of great people who um I've already like just met through there. I mean even with Randy Johanness and I were on his podcast last night. So UM, I would go on and ask questions and UM, none of those questions were ever asking for anything really specific. It was usually something about shooting or um, like a basic question about tags, And so I asked like a basic question about tags and in Montana and just trying to figure out the system. And I don't even remember like what the question was. But about fifteen minutes later, I got a personal message from someone and he used to hunt in Montana. He had like all of his GPS spots, and he sent me a list of like all of his honey hooles that he'd accumulated over like the course of his life and his family's life. So I do you are you guys saying that's because she was a girl or because I'm also I'm also incredibly play and while spoken in articulate, So I don't know that man helps, you know, And I would say that maybe that guy did it, has you know, been a part of that for him, and there's a beginner or there he's like he was definitely he was definitely like blatant, like do not chair list with anybody, Like I'm going out of my way to share this with you because like I and a lot of it was because I was doing it on my own, um and I was going to go out and hunt by myself, right, So like I had like kind of made this plan, and um, but I never asked for I make it known that I would never ask anybody for a location to go hunting. In Let's do a social experiment seriously, like for next season. Let's let's set up Brittany and I once had a contest that I beat her. We'll have a different contest to hunting. Hunting permission contest for like leading up to fall, like we have to ask, I'll do it or somebody the other guy. I will will go head to head. You ask twenty people for permission. I'll ask people for permission. It's a good exercise anyway. I mean i'd win. It's fine, But no, I mean that was it was a crazy thing for him to offer, and I like couldn't explain like how much it meant to me. But I also like, um, a lot of those areas I didn't want to go into by myself. I mean, they're like the heart of Grizzly Country. So if anybody wants to go hunting with me, I have some secret ye to do your sweetest permission asking of Nicole to get this postomer a lot of my girls in a couple of years come over. That's true. They can come with hunting with me anytime? Any closing thoughts? What are closing thoughts? Last? I don't know? Wrap up? Or did you? Was that yours? No? Can? I got you? Kind of salty salty podcast? Why I salty? She's a salty human. Love her go ahead? I don't know. I guess. Like my before we maybe turning the podcast on, we had like we discussed having a word of intention for for our podcast, and mine would be ambassador because I just I think I want to be UH an ambassador not only just for hunters, but for women hunters um and I I hope that other women want to do the same, and I hope that other men want to do the same and encourage more women to get into hunting, because I think it's again, it's like it doesn't have to be like about you know, being macho and you know like oh, you know, I'm just killing big books and all. It's like for me, it's about food, and I think that should be important to everybody. But if it's you know, I'm particularly interested in getting women involved in so anyhow, I would like to be an ambassador. I think more people should be ambassadors, and I think more people men and women and children should be interested in in hunting and should feel like me Eater is a safe place and to be there for me Eater to be like the air tribe of people and to think that to know that they can always come to us with questions, um and concerns and that sort of thing. You know, I want us to be the outlet. So that's my closing statement. I think you should go next, and sure, um yeah, I don't know. I My closing thoughts are my mom is getting back into hunting a little bit, and she's fifty nine. And I think she got a turkey tag last year because there's been a lot of turkeys in her yard and she didn't kill one. And I think she sat. She sat two nights in a dear blind this last fall. And and this is there's been definitely a hunting resurgence in my family. I grew up hunting a lot. My famili's all hunted forever, forever ever, And my mom never killed a deer in my lifetime that I'm aware of, but she would always tell the story about the one time she had an opportunity. She um she was she actually I shouldn't tell this, but I think she was peeing in the so she wasn't ready to go. But I'm really excited that she's back. And I think that the food part of being involved with media and being part of this company and doing this whole thing has been a big part for my family. Um, you know, and my my mom and my dad and my brother and have all really been more into the cooking and are you know, making sure they get three or four deer a year and filled the freezer and do everything, and um, it makes men actually want to go hunt with my mom And I would actually never have hunted with my mom. I think it'd be really fun. I'd love to. You know, my wife has never hunted, and she got real excited last year and bought four dollars with the tags and never went out. Um mind you mind, she did get pregnant to But yeah, no, I think it's great. I think it's I think it's cool at uh we you know, as a show and as a company, are you know getting more into it and addressing it more of something I'd like to do more. That's all I got. I have something to say. Um, kind of just continuing with both of you said, is like not everyone can work as EPs or work on me Eater, or go to Alaska and film a documentary with Steve Um. So I was gonna say, Um, I just think it's super important for us and people in the media and hunters just to be ethical and like put regardless of gender, just like be good examples for everyone. Because of the general public or people that are into it, like they have a very clear vision of what we all are. And if you could see us Mr right now, like we're not that. My mom actually bought her tags for this fall to go hunting. She bow hunted when I was before I was born with her brothers. She's from Montana. But um, I think that's really cool and I'm looking forward to hopefully hunting with her this fall. But um just thinking back to what we talked about, I think that like sometimes this big wall is built between men and women, and um, I think that the three of us especially and like the people here, um, I love like how conscious we all are about thinking about that wall and like making sure that that world doesn't get built or at least wondering like why it's there. And I I like when people are intentionally thoughtful. I think that in a very traditional culture it's easy to um, you know, shrug your shoulders and say, oh, you're just being PC, you're being politically correct, or you are, um, you know, you're not representative of the whole of hunters. Well, I think that, like this, hunting is about storytelling, and I think that everybody has a story that they can attached to it. And I think that the more open people are about, um, the type of people getting into hunting, whether it's women or you know, people coming in from the city's the hipster hunters, like whatever they are. Um, I mean I think it is. I think that there's a place for everybody in hunting, and um, I'm happy that, um I get to be a part of that like messaging, especially like coming from Meat Eater and coming from a show that like I feel like I could show it to any of my friends and and I have shown it to a lot of my friends, and it's really cool to get that experience where they're like, oh, like this is totally not a hunting show, you know, but it is. And I just think that gets to the heart of like what we're really talking about, which like isn't gender, it's it's really about like story stories. Very well said, Yes, um. All I gotta say is be wary. If a soft spoken, high pitched voice Stephanie Runella introduces yourself at your pharm door, be very, very wary. Thank you for listening, Thank you guys for coming on. I enjoyed it. It It was fun, good conversation. Sorry,

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