00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything brought to you by first Light. When I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds, no compromise, gear that keeps me in the field longer, no shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out at first light dot com. That's f I R S T L I T E dot com. All right, everybody joined today by someone that Krinn and I have been texting back and forth about having on for it might be six years crazy. Krinn was like five because they can't do math. 00:00:56 Speaker 2: I think it's six December nineteenth. 00:00:58 Speaker 1: That article no, no, I meant I was making about it's so long you? 00:01:02 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I was. 00:01:03 Speaker 1: Since she was a little gal, a little girl. We've been texting back and forth about having on. Rob sand from Iowa and what what brought this up? People text you articles all the time, and I didn't know that many years ago we get an article years ago headline New York Times article. Someone sends us this article headline the bow hunting influencer of Iowa Democrats. Rob did not write these heads you did not, he didn't write these articles. A line from so then the I studied journalism a little teeny bit. What do you call the the headline and then head out the like lead, lead led right the sub Then there's the nut graft there somewhere is it? The lead? The lead? Rob sand figured out how to win statewide office as a Democrat in Iowa, and now the presidential contenders are seeking his counsel. Yeah. It goes on mister sands fondness for hunting. See this is really a story about hunting. Mister sands fondness for hunting, cultivated during his childhood years in rural Iowa, but also conveniently appealing to the state's more conservative constituents, helps explain why he was the only non incumbent Democrat to win statewide here in twenty eighteen, all thanks to hunting. 00:02:27 Speaker 3: Uh. 00:02:28 Speaker 1: Then the Telegraph, here's another headline, robbedn't right, He's gonna blush. Uh Oh, the gun toting Christian who could help Democrats win over Trump voters. Rising star party is spooking Republicans and Ruby red state of Iowa. A sentence from that article goes, Rob Sand, Oh, yeah, there's a gun toting Christian from rural Iowa who goes deer hunting. Of all things that I'm added, I'm editor, I'm adding that of all things, who goes deer hunting, drives a white Ford F one fifty pick up and open speeches by quoting the Bible. Another article Wall Street Journal, Meet the Democrat who Republicans fear in Red state America. Here's here's a sentence from the article. Rob sand could almost pass for a Republican. He frequently quotes the Bible, owns two sig sour handguns, goes deer hunting each fall, and asks audiences to sing a few verses of America the beautiful at the start of each campaign event. So these articles they build and build and build, and then we're like, maybe don't have this guy in and talk to him. Uh, but most were gonna talk about a big old Bucky killed. Yeah, that'll be more fun. That's the main thing. My auditing head. And all of these sentences are like, not quite true, not quite true. 00:03:46 Speaker 3: I now drive a Silver f one fifty. 00:03:48 Speaker 1: Oh some little minor differences. Yeah, the white one hit like one seventy, and the camfazers were going out and with all the body damage that was on it, it made more sense to buy a new one. Got it. But there's a quote the only thing worse than being written about it's not being written about. You could switch my in my business. That's probably true. Yeah, you could switch it. You know you can switch it. Oh. Also, I forgot to mention he's he's running for governor. There's that he's running for governor and I iowas we're gonna talk about that, but first we have to have our entrepreneur spotlight. Back to Brooklyn Stevens. Right, Brooklyn Stevens, this is your third time you've been on the show, believe so okay, because she's trying to build her business it FOURAL six Bone Works, so we have around on and to check in with her. Harvest was down in Montana this year because it was an exceptionally warm fall. It was not much snow, hot, very hot, and she saw it reflected in how many schools came into four L six Bone Works. Yep, that's her leading theory. Tell us about that. 00:04:55 Speaker 2: I yeah, I mean I last year, I probably did close to two hundred and fifty schools from January to end of December, and that was not counting that it would have been this January, like the the trickle in of that season schools, which was probably another twenty or so got it this year. I don't even know if I'll get close to two hundred. 00:05:26 Speaker 1: This cannot stand. Yep. And last I need to flood you. They need to flood four or six bone works with skulls. Yeah, I don't care if you've got to ship it from another country yep. 00:05:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, we bought specifically four to hold all of my heads. A shipping container, so you didically. 00:05:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, you own your own shipping container now. 00:05:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's like a smaller one, but it's still shipping. 00:05:51 Speaker 1: So you've got capital expenditures into your business. 00:05:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's deductible, definitely. 00:05:58 Speaker 1: Uh. And you're thinking about so traditionally the school You've done a bunch of schools for me, now you must probably done a half dozen or more. Yeah. Yeah, all turned out beautifully, zero complaints, Thank you, beautiful work. But you're branching into your brand. You're going to branch into the beetles stuff and some other hide hide stuff. So tell tell folks about what your tell folks about your sort of I don't know what you call it business lingo your verticals? No, you know, I'm getting that. 00:06:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Beatles I got specifically for like the smaller schools because it's it's hard to like boil them. I would just put them in a crockpot and slow cook them. But oh I just was not a fan, and so I just got the Beatles. And then the way I whiten things now, I can still decreases at the same time, so I can still do it with the smaller schools and it just makes it easier. Okay that, and I'll sell the smaller schools too, like if I can it. My buddies are big trappers, and so if they don't want their skulls, like, they'll just give them to me to feed them, and I'll just sell them and I'll pay them for the school or whatever they want. And then yeah, I did just get in to tanning. I was dabbling in it before, but I just opened for public, so I can't do really anything. 00:07:24 Speaker 1: So someone got say, let's say someone was out and they got a coyoke and they wanted to have it done as a hanging decoration or they wanted to save it up to get something made out of it they could bring you. You would skin it, flash it, stretch it, get it to the tannery, all that kind of stuff, and return to them a finished product. Excellent. Excellent. 00:07:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I just now starting to get into shoulder mounts. I did my first one last last summer. Still a lot of things I need to work on, but it turned out great for Oh I did. Yeah, I think so, and I got a lots of good feedback on it. 00:08:01 Speaker 1: Oh, well, next time you come in, you should bring in a shoulder mount. That's pretty exciting. So you're you're on the path. Like John Hayes, better watch out. 00:08:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've talked to him quite a bit, and he's. 00:08:11 Speaker 1: Better watch that. He's gonna start having to steer you wrong. He's gonna start giving you. Hayes is gonna start giving you bad advice. Yeah, yeah, he's gonna he sees you coming in the rear view mirror and he's gonna start giving you bad advice. 00:08:22 Speaker 2: Right, yep. 00:08:24 Speaker 1: He might not even be around anymore. I spoke to him this morning. He was driving thirty miles an hour. Oh, he was driving thirty miles an hour in a white out behind a truck. We talked about what I would say if he doesn't make it. I was gonna say it with John. It was all about the animals, That's all I was gonna say at is moral service. Now it's gonna be like, you know, the dead ones. 00:08:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's all about sounds fair. 00:08:48 Speaker 3: You should remember that the pupil should never outshine the master. That's what they say. He'll stay happy as long as you keep telling him, I'm learning so much from. 00:08:56 Speaker 1: You, that's yeah. Do that. If he tells you a hot tip, don't be. 00:09:02 Speaker 3: Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't tell don't tell him. Oh I already knew that. Anything he says, oh, thank you. 00:09:09 Speaker 1: The pupils should never outshine the mask, or if you're a terrible bullshitter, just at least interesting, you know, keep it in mind. Yeah, never call him and give him a tip, because then, you know what I'm saying, Then he might sayabotage, you know what I mean, because he's he's got to watch out. Sure, he's the old guard. You're the new. 00:09:28 Speaker 2: Guard, right yep? 00:09:31 Speaker 1: All right, Well, so tell people how to get ahold of you. The bringing in the skulls. 00:09:36 Speaker 2: I have a flyer at the Meter Flagship store downtown Bozeman. My phone number information is all on that or my Instagram is just four O six dop bone works. Message me on there, my Gmail is on there, or if you have my number, you know, it's just shoot me, text whatever. That's the best way. I don't look at my email very much, but you can get me. 00:10:00 Speaker 1: Get a hold of me. If someone was down on main Street, because because you work at the you don't work at the media to store on main Street. Yep, someone could just drop one off there. Huh is that not legal? 00:10:09 Speaker 3: Yeah? 00:10:09 Speaker 2: I have a with Alec. 00:10:11 Speaker 1: He knows what he knows. What's up? Okay, now tell me the honest answer, like it doesn't it's not. The honest answer isn't going to bother me. This is the last question. Would you rather be home cleaning skulls or rather be working at the store. Just tell me this flat out honest answer. 00:10:25 Speaker 2: Be home clean and clean skulls. 00:10:27 Speaker 1: Yep. Okay, you're you're you're inspired, you're inspired. It's awesome. All right, Well, good luck, thank you. Four h six bone Works. Give the phone number. 00:10:37 Speaker 2: It's gonna be four oh six four four eight four eight. 00:10:42 Speaker 1: I got a second question or the second last question? Do you prefer people to bring you skulls that are rotten and full of maggots or fresh and frozen. Neither, Oh really tell us, okay? And with this and with this, the perfect customer brings the skull and what form. 00:11:03 Speaker 2: Killed it that morning? It off that night, not skinned? Just leave it to me, not skinned. I don't it's something about the skin, I think, sucking in all that moisture, and so I think if you just leave it on there and then I can do it. I'll get it done either the same day or the day after. And I don't know what it is, but it's just like the freshness. It really does make skulls come out wider and not realistic. 00:11:32 Speaker 1: So if they're not doing you a favor when they skin it, I mean. 00:11:36 Speaker 2: Sort of, I'm gonna now I charge to skin them. But that's why that's what I really like to just that. 00:11:43 Speaker 3: But she's also inviting her customers to do less work. Just bring it to me, I'll do it. That's smart businesss. 00:11:51 Speaker 1: Fooral six bone works. Get the phone number again. 00:11:53 Speaker 2: Four six four o four eight four. 00:11:57 Speaker 1: Eight Okay, Brooklyn, which one you like the most? Your I know? On your contact it says brook but I know he has Brooklyn. Am I doing? Am I wrong when I say Brooklyn? 00:12:07 Speaker 3: No? 00:12:07 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. 00:12:08 Speaker 1: Okay, So you can pick customers, pick brook they can pick Brooklyn. Steven's firl six bone works. Done a bunch of work for everybody around here. You're doing Spencer's biggest buck he ever got. Yep. Nice. 00:12:20 Speaker 2: Wow, he's probably the biggest buck I've yarrowed so far. 00:12:26 Speaker 1: Really, he's a picky man too. If he's happy, you'll know you did a good job. 00:12:31 Speaker 2: He's fussy, Yeah, little guy. 00:12:37 Speaker 1: Fussy, little fellow. Likes everything kind of how he likes it. They've been in his house. Likes everything he likes if you if you move something, he knows he likes it, just how he likes. 00:12:49 Speaker 3: It's hard to live that way. 00:12:53 Speaker 1: All right, you can take off, go clean some skulls. Yep, thanks dude, appreciate it. Come by, Thank you God. 00:13:00 Speaker 2: I already broke those rules. 00:13:01 Speaker 1: Which ones skin skin didn't let it rot. 00:13:05 Speaker 2: Still still in a box in the garage. 00:13:08 Speaker 1: She skin didn't let it rot. 00:13:09 Speaker 3: I also like to call me anything, you know. It's like, you can call me anything. Just call me for your text or means. 00:13:14 Speaker 1: That's a good. Yeah, it's the only rule. Okay, Rob sam Man, Let's let's start a little bit. Let's start a little bit about we'll get it. I want to talk about the buck. I want to talk about what exact you do for a living, what you're fixing to do for a living. You met, but let's let's start out. Uh, let's start out back home and when you were a wee lad. So one of one of the articles I read about you made a lot gave a lot of ink to the fact that you were, that you worked in the poultry. I did it as a chicken catcher. 00:13:46 Speaker 3: I did well technically capons capon catcher, so castrated chickens. This is in northeast Ayle. I grew up in Tacora, and so there's a factory on the east east side of town, east out of town that we actually toured when I was in third grade. 00:14:03 Speaker 1: Okay, so you get to us how you got a foot in the door. 00:14:06 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. They were like, you look dirty. I remember, I remember the little old ladies splashing some of the giblet water on us as we were walking past. So that was very that was thrilling. Definitely made me think I have a career ahead of me and capons, but I'm fourtunate. 00:14:22 Speaker 1: I'm not like I if that was a trivia question, I don't know that I would have gotten it right. 00:14:28 Speaker 3: What a capon is? 00:14:28 Speaker 1: Yeah? Usual? But but but how is the consumers not buying a capon? This is this is a production term. 00:14:35 Speaker 3: I can't tell you if they're marketed honestly as capons are not. My job was walk into the barn, pick up the capons, hand him to the guy on the truck, and that was That was the end. And I was fourteen, so I was paying attention to Yeah, five bucks an hour cash. I don't know if I should say that. No, they'll come for you. It was five bucks an hour cash. It was good money and you could do it when you were fourteen. And uh yeah, just huge barns. So they pull these huge trucks in turn off the lights. Like I said, capons are castrated meal chickens, so they're fattier, bigger than usual, and you're just walking around. You grab them by the legs, both legs. Both is great because if you can get both, then they can't scratch, you. 00:15:23 Speaker 1: Can't spurry or bite you exactly exactly. 00:15:26 Speaker 3: No matter what, their last line of defense is always to piss and shit all over you. Got it, So that's going to happen, got it. That's what Fiel does, is that right, grab them. If you grab him by the ankles. 00:15:37 Speaker 1: It's the only line of defense. So we uh, you know, you grab grab the ankles. Hopefully you get both, pick up another one. You know, maybe you get strong enough six months later that you can do three at a time, or try to get four if your techniques improving. Give them to the guy on the truck and you do that until all the trucks are full. So is this one of those young kid jobs that a lot of young kids come in and a lot of them leave on day one? 00:16:00 Speaker 2: Oh? 00:16:00 Speaker 1: That was like like throwing hay bales. Tends to be actually funny that you mentioned that. My buddy Andy Rasmussen, one of my best friends. Uh, he came once, did not go back to collect his pay. Then he's a hard and he's a hard working dude. 00:16:17 Speaker 3: He's uh, but this is just this was not his not his bag. 00:16:21 Speaker 1: Where I grew up, there's two jobs any kid could get in. Every kid guy. Yeah, yeah, and it was any kid could walk in and start peeling logs. Yep, for log home. We don't have that. We don't have that in Iowa. Thirty five cents of foot. I don't know what it is. Not back the thirty five cents foot. Any kid could walk in and he'd be like, have at it to you? Peeling bark peeling bark off, you know, like a nice log home has that hand peeled? Look? Yeah, anybody could come in. There's no there was just the application period. There's no there was no interview. 00:16:50 Speaker 3: Are you swinging a hatchet? 00:16:51 Speaker 1: No, it's a draw knife, okay, And it was just simply sure, go ahead, yeah, ready you go. And most people peeled a couple of feet of the log and left. Yeah, there you go, There you go. And the other one was working at the greenhouse filling flats. 00:17:09 Speaker 3: With dirt that would probably be a little bit soil. 00:17:13 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, But it was like anybody could get it, but not everybody wanted it. 00:17:17 Speaker 3: Detasseling corn was the other one for Iowa. That's in that too. Was your family agriculture. No, you could see corn and cows out my bedroom window. But my dad likes to say he was a farmer for six months and then when he was six months old, they moved off the farm. 00:17:29 Speaker 1: Got it. So, yeah, so you didn't you were you were egg egg adjacent, but not any family. 00:17:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Well, and everything if you're in small town Iowa, you know kind of everything's egg adjacent to a certain degree. So no, but yeah, first job was catching chickens. Moved on from there to McDonald's for a couple of years, and then the curve ball would be I think my next job after that was working for a local internet service provider, strangely enough, got it. 00:17:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you went to law school in Iowa. 00:17:56 Speaker 3: Went to law school at Iowa, and then went to the Attorney General's US. After that seven years as the chief public coruption prosecutor in Iowa. 00:18:03 Speaker 1: Oh so that was gonna ask, Okay, so that's how you became aware of that there's all this. 00:18:08 Speaker 3: There is a state auditor. Yes, that's there's that. 00:18:11 Speaker 1: There's stuff to do in the governments, right, got it? Yeah? So what was that work? Now? 00:18:16 Speaker 3: So I prosecuted most of the public corruption in Iowa in that timeframe. So, like many states, we had a film office tax credit of filmmaking tax credit. Uh, like some other states, we screwed it up, and there was a lot of frauds. So I prosecuted those cases. Also uncovered the largest lottery rigging scheme in American history. That's a crazy story. Actually, Oh that's a good one to talk about. 00:18:39 Speaker 1: Big version of that. 00:18:40 Speaker 3: It was a great one to talk about here. There were big Foot hunters involved. Yes, yes, so. 00:18:46 Speaker 1: You the fact that you think that excites me, I'm excited by it. I'm like. 00:18:57 Speaker 3: Anti Bigfoot, all right. I mean I'm not anti his existence or anti looking for him. 00:19:02 Speaker 1: We've had lookers on we had a look around. Well, no, she wasn't. She covered the lookers, yes, oh, okay, covered she was a reporter. 00:19:12 Speaker 3: She covered the lookers, all right, and. 00:19:14 Speaker 1: Then she kind of was a little bit she didn't want to condemn them. Yeah, because that's her sources there there. There, They're they're people searching for truth in the world. You know, that would been the kind of thing she would have said on Yeah. 00:19:27 Speaker 3: I'm not here to judge him. I'm just here to tell you some of these jackpots were claimed. The guy who was at the mastermind of it, it was his job to write the computer program, was going to pick winning numbers. He put a little bit extra in there. And so his brother, who was a Justice of peace down in Texas. 00:19:46 Speaker 1: His brother, he got it back way up. 00:19:48 Speaker 3: Yeah, state lottery so interesting. He actually worked for the Multi State Lottery Association. So they ran the show for different games across thirty eight different states. It's and Canadian provinces. 00:20:01 Speaker 1: Got and this is not the kid where the ball blows up. And though it is not okay, it's a computer generator winner. 00:20:07 Speaker 3: It's funny because they moved into the computer generated systems after the triple six fix in Pennsylvania. 00:20:12 Speaker 1: Not familiar. Uh, The triple six fix was a rigged lottery jackpot with the balls right, but they injected die into the sixes and so the sixes dropped down, which technically speakings this is one of those weird things about the ping pong ball. Ye yes, yes, yes, And this is one of those weird things. Technically speaking, it's the triple squix. Yeah, we should have a whole different podcasts about this. They may have done. That's what I was going to say, Like, you want to talk to you. We got blood trails, but financial crime. If you involved with the big Foot, that's your angle. The Bigfoot hunters right. 00:20:47 Speaker 3: The triple six fits triple six fix in Pennsylvania. 00:20:50 Speaker 1: Who okay, I don't want to spend too much time on the triple six. Sure okay, sure, okay, So go on. Well, so somebody who. 00:20:59 Speaker 3: Forgot what human was was like, oh, if we do this with computers, then no one will ever rig it. And of course then Eddie Tipton came along, who's the mastermind at the center of this one, and he rigged a computer program so he would know he would be able to rigged what was written. He wrote the program, but then put a little extra in there. What so that on one of three dates of the year, if that date fell on a Wednesday or a Saturday, and if the draw was happening after eight pm, rather than going to the actual random number generator for the first seed, it would go to a seven variable algorithm that he knew, and so he could he could have people gone by one hundred, two hundred, three hundred tickets and he would know that he was hitting the jackpot in those three hundred what yeah, yeah, yeah, crazy. And his brother is a justice at the Peace down in Texas and a big foot hunter, and so he tapped into his big foot hunting network to help claim some of the tickets, which I theorize. 00:21:57 Speaker 1: Because he had like his associates. Yes, wow, and this has got to be don't. Don't these folks have to have a high degree of trusting each other. Yeah, because you are looked at by the outside world as I'm sure. 00:22:09 Speaker 3: You're laughed at. 00:22:10 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:22:11 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so this you you you believe, I believe, we know. 00:22:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, we deserve this money. That's right, that's right. And so his brother, the people that were the names, did they even know their names are being used? 00:22:26 Speaker 3: You didn't, they did. So what it was was. 00:22:28 Speaker 1: I don't because they're being told what number to play. They're being they I don't know that they were being told what number to play. But the brother of the Mastermind would go to them and say, hey, I want the lottery, but my wife and I are on the outs, or you know, something about like I don't want my wife to know I'm gambling, something like that. Will you claim the ticket. I'll let you keep ten percent. Just do all of it cash, understand today, not the annuity thing. I'll give you ten percent if you go claim it. And so they'd go claim it, and then ten years went by, there was a sixteen million dollar jackpot in Iowa. Actually, folks, if you want to, if you got an hour and you want to watch a documentary lotto dooc dot com, you can watch the whole story there. Or I wrote a book about it. I am. 00:23:11 Speaker 3: I didn't have anything to do with making it. I'd prefer you by my book. Personally, it's the winning ticket, but crazy story. So we got to interview you know, this bigfoot hunter down in way East, Texas, down in the Bayou's ironically last named Conn. 00:23:32 Speaker 1: Some of this stuff you just can't make up. 00:23:34 Speaker 3: Really, yeah, yeah, and all they were like, yeah, he's my bigfoot hunting buddy. The brother who was kind of at the thread that connected from the mastermind actually got interviewed about the very first jackpot went out in Colorado by an FBI agent while he's in the hospital with two broken legs from falling out of a tree while bigfoot hunting. Wow, yeah, these guys are indeed, they're in deep crazy story. 00:24:03 Speaker 1: Well did this go to a jury? 00:24:05 Speaker 3: It did when we only had we only knew of the one Iowa ticket. So interesting wrinkle here. You know you got your right to speedy trial. Ladies and gentlemen, if you've been charged with the crime, you got your right to speedy trial. In Iowa, you can have a ninety day speedy trial rule. Normally the federal rules is a year, but you can demand it in ninety days. And this was a case that had kind of been around for a long time. It got handed to me. We did a little we pushed a little bit on the investigation, got some good stuff, and then suddenly realized that we got to indict this guy once we found him out. We released the video of him purchasing the tickets and got some good tips actually from a guy in Maine. But we uh, not a big foot hunter, not a big foot hunter, no, but a guy that knew the mastermind was like that, Saidie Tipton. 00:24:49 Speaker 1: Huh. 00:24:50 Speaker 3: So we had to indict him real quick. And then he demanded speedy trial under the Iowa rule for ninety days. So we had this sense at that point where like, Okay, this guy works at the Multi Say Lottery Association. It's his job to write the program that picks winning numbers, and here we have him buying and ticket. This thing's obviously rigged. We have no hard evidence, we don't have the computer. Right, it's all circumstantial case. And so of course we're thinking multi SA lottery associations running games in thirty eight states and provinces. This can't be the only one. But he demands speedy trial, and so we go to trial. We have a jury trial, We pick the jury the day we start evidence. CBS This Morning covers this trial says they got some computer expert on this guy's got a pretty the defendant, he's got a pretty powerful argument for a reasonable doubt because they don't have that hard evidence. We won anyway, and then we're waiting for sentencing. It's like a six week wait. You do this, there's a pre sentenced investigation, so the Department of Corrections can make a recommendation to the judge. While we're waiting, I get a phone call from Texas and I recognize the area code is his area code? Just my phone rings in my cubicle. Answer the phone, Hey us, this Rob saying, yeah, do y'all know the Adie Tipton's. 00:26:05 Speaker 1: Brother won the lottery? 00:26:08 Speaker 3: No? Yeah, maybe about ten years ago out west somewhere, maybe a Colorado. I did not know that, Thank you, And so the investigation. Then now we've got the tip that we kind of needed to go to other state lotteries that we technically don't have any you know, we can't tell them give me this. But now we've got some information, we can really go to them and say you probably need to give us this, and they've got a reason to do it. So investigation went on from there. 00:26:37 Speaker 1: Did another state win up n Avingham or did you guys get the who gets to host him? 00:26:43 Speaker 3: It was interesting he served his time in Iowa. We had great cooperation and really important work from the Wisconsin Attorney General's office, David Moss up there and Joeanne Joy credit to them a prosecutor and an investigating agent. And then out in Colorado, Rob I think his name was Rob Shapiro at the AG's office there they agreed, they decided to do a prosecution. They didn't have much role in the investigation, but Joanne and David really helpful. So this is probably we think this is probably the biggest multi state plea agreement since the founding of federal law enforcement. Because we couldn't get the fence to take the case. 00:27:23 Speaker 1: Is he in the who'scow? Now? 00:27:25 Speaker 3: Who they went? 00:27:25 Speaker 1: Now? Is he in jail? Locked up? 00:27:27 Speaker 3: No, and now he's out, he's sort of like four and a half years. 00:27:29 Speaker 1: That's it. 00:27:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, in now he has to he's my understanding, has still got his sentence hanging over his head in Wisconsin. 00:27:40 Speaker 1: Got it. So if he doesn't make good on his restitution, which he better start doing, I think they can haul him in in Wisconsin and throw him back in. But he's down in Texas and he's probably playing lottery. I mean, they'll win the restitution money. He might know what numbers to pick. I don't want I want to tell you about something. I don't want this take up too much time. But do you hear about these dudes in Texas that just did that. They won the lottery, but they won it far and square. They these mathematicians, they kind of it's a global network. 00:28:14 Speaker 3: Was this the serial number thing? Like they figured out a clue in the serial number? No? 00:28:18 Speaker 1: No, no, no, they it's a global network. Or these mathematician guys, and they just watch sweep steaks, raffles, giveaways, lotteries. They watch them for vulnerabilities. So interesting in Texas they realize that you could, if you're a business, you can get your own lottery machine for tickets. I did see this. So they just rent offices all over to state. They don't open any businesses because it's not part of the thing. You just need an address. They rent offices over to state. They get their own lotto machines. They wait till the jackpot gets to a certain bit and where they know their expected value hits the This is the time, friends, families, they are like, they're banking on they have it have to be that. They can't be a split jackpot. Yep. If it's a split jackpot, they break, even if they're the sole winner. They clear tens of millions of dollars. Yeah, and so they would. They would wait till it hit that amount. There's actually and then they got seventy two hours or something like that. 00:29:21 Speaker 3: There's another story that's similar out of Michigan. Matter of fact, Jerry and Marge go large. Oh, Jerry and Marge. Jerry was some Michigan guy who just had a real head for numbers and he noticed some pattern and some game in Michigan and basically did the same thing. 00:29:39 Speaker 1: There's there was. 00:29:40 Speaker 3: It started with a newspaper or sorry, a magazine article, and then it got turned into a movie. Oh great movie. Yeah, they ran Michigan or not. 00:29:49 Speaker 1: And they had seventy two hours, kids, wives, everybody. Yeah, they ran every number, imprementation possibly by yeah, and then had a storage system. They do the draw, they go into their little thing like here's the ticket, right, they're passing a lot like and I and as the last I knew, everyone looked at it every which way looking for why that's illegal. Yeah, as far as I know, it's not. Yeah. So now that now, the Texas legislature is like changing their rules to make it that. 00:30:18 Speaker 3: You can't do that, and they're all mad and they're trying to make it look like these people screwed up because there are a bunch of politicians who don't want to admit that they wrote stupid rules for a game that. Yeah, these guys like we won far and square. Yeah, they just how smart them. They're like, dude, you wrote these rules. We read the rules that you wrote, we played the game according to the rules. 00:30:35 Speaker 1: Don't be mad at me, Eddie. That's right, that's right. 00:30:40 Speaker 3: Eddie actually put a little extra code in there that made it made it predictable. So that's why that's the difference. That's why he went to prison. And these people got a bunch of money. 00:30:47 Speaker 1: These people get to hang out. Yeah yeah, all right, one last thing then we're going to I got to order in my head. Yeah yeah. So we talked about the when you we're doing that Department of what it's called again, like yeah, I was. 00:31:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I was assistant Attorney general and prosecute atorney general some violent crime, but the focus was financial crime. 00:31:08 Speaker 1: And then you're now the state auditor. 00:31:11 Speaker 3: That's right. That's an elected position elected in Iowa. Yeah, so it's a mix in different states. Easiest way to understand it is it's like closest thing to taxpayers watchdog. So we audit tax spenders, not tax payers. 00:31:24 Speaker 1: Give me an example of a tax spender, the state of the state government, Highway Department, dot, Department of Education. 00:31:32 Speaker 3: If a county or a city or a school district hires us for their annual audit, we do their audit, and then we do special investigations under certain circumstances. 00:31:40 Speaker 1: Got it is that a competitive field if you go to try to get elected. 00:31:44 Speaker 3: Well sure, I mean, at the end of the day, anytime you got a race, Iowa was still the at its heart is a fairly competitive state that doesn't mean that every race is competitive, but when you're looking statewide, you know it can go either way. 00:31:56 Speaker 1: So most people will run against you reason for a period it's time. My mother was the treasurer of her township thirty six square miles, all right, big chunk of ground. 00:32:05 Speaker 3: I'm betting she didn't have a lot of competition for that. 00:32:07 Speaker 1: She would sometimes it would be that no one would run against it, yep, which makes it very easy to win. 00:32:12 Speaker 3: That's that's much better. Yeah, I would prefer that. That would be great. I could actually spend a lot more time hunting and hanging out with my kids. So you won that, Yeah, four years, re elected in twenty two. And to your point, when I won in eighteen, that was the first time in Iowa and in thirty six years, which I think was my life. Basically I was thirty six at the time, but basically the first time in my life that a statewide incumbent Republican lost to a Democratic challenger. So as auditor as no, for any state wide I think any statewide office. We tend to re elect our incumbents in Iowa. There's exceptions, but yeah, and. 00:32:54 Speaker 1: We were talking about running for governor and we're not going to get into this X. We're a top about deer good running for governor. It's it's this is the first time in some long period of time that it's an open race. 00:33:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, first time. Let's see basically since first time in twenty years. 00:33:12 Speaker 1: God, yep, yep. 00:33:14 Speaker 3: So it was, uh, you'll going back to people on the inside. One of the things that kind of made me push to do it was so we uncovered a record amount of mispent money in my first term I get re elected. The response to Democrats and Republicans and independence in Iowa re electing me was the legislature and the governor passed the law so that state agencies can hide evidence of misspent tax dollars from our office, can hide I understand, I know, because why would you ever do that? Right, that's wrong, it's bad. Yes, that's what they did. 00:33:49 Speaker 1: But help me understand, Like, what's the argument for hiding evidence? 00:33:53 Speaker 3: Oh well, oh, that's that's the argument you got to make. You gotta have words come out of your mouth. It's all bs, the words that would coming out of their mouth. We're oh, well, we're trying to protect your privacy, got it? Privacy for waste fright and abuse of my tax dollars. I don't want privacy for that. 00:34:08 Speaker 1: Got it. 00:34:08 Speaker 3: Every every government watchdog in the country that weighed in on this law, Democrats, Independence, Republicans, they were all like, don't, don't, don't do this. This is terrible. You're going to see an increase in waste of tax dollars if you pass this law. They passed it anyway because they because they saw that we were like, you know, doing the job, and they were like, hey, he's making he's letting people know what's happening. We can't have that. 00:34:33 Speaker 1: Got it. So but then you wont after that, No, I got re elected. Then they did that, So that made the job less fun. Oh. 00:34:42 Speaker 3: I mean we're about to do something important. We're about to tell people a big deal. We're trying to hold people cutable. And they're like, h we don't want you to look at that. Oh, well, what am I doing here? 00:34:53 Speaker 1: Then? Huh? 00:34:55 Speaker 3: There was a there was I remember one of the quotes from someone who was like on the Government Oversight Committee for the American Institute CPAs was like, if you pass this law, you may as well make it so you don't have a state auditor. 00:35:06 Speaker 1: Oh. That's what they did, and that's what they're like, that's what we mean. Yeah, they were like, perfect, let's pass this sucker. That's just the endorsement they wanted. Huh yeah yeah. So yeah, job suddenly became less interesting, less fun. I really, I mean, this is a piece of this is rooted in my faith. My faith, as those stories mentioned, very important to me. One of the stories that always stuck out to me in as a kid was Jesus flipping over the tables of the money changers in a temple, people in a position of trust and power right who were abusing that trust and power. And I love the work I was doing as a prosecutor, going after corrupt public officials, corrupt financial advisors who prey on people's trust right, who use their position to get more for themselves. I love the work of holding people accountable who are in charge of tax dollars, making sure that they knew that someone was looking at them and didn't care about the power that they had, but cared about whether or not they were doing the right thing. And then you change that law and you take that away, and it's like, well, I don't want to do this anymore, and it makes it all the more important to say. Sounds like we need a new governor, someone who's going to give the auditor their power back and do a bunch of other good stuff at the same time. That's kind of the idea. Let's jump into deer please. That's a sealed deal. That's what sealed deal. Yeah, he got a really big buck in an urban hunting program. Yes, yes, boom done, So explain it. So you're in des Moines, yep, Okay, what is the urban hunting program in des Moin? 00:36:34 Speaker 3: What I can tell you of it. I've been doing it for I think thirteen years. And many Iowa municipalities have got an urban hunting program because we got big white tail over the state and you know, they're eating people's hostas and all that, and you always get a divide on the people who want you to take them and don't. But most cities have got a program bow hunting only you got to shoot from an elevated position so that your arrow's going into the ground, be in a stand. You have to take an annual every single year. You got to repass your marksmanship test so that they always know is. 00:37:07 Speaker 1: It a serious test? 00:37:09 Speaker 3: It's not super I would call it a proficiency people called it proficiency test. So it's like ten arrows from fifteen yards and ten arrows from twenty yards at a nine inch target. It's not hard, got it? And they don't want you to take shots beyond about twenty five yards. So yeah, like if someone said, hey, is he a good shot? And you said it's proficient, proficient, Yeah, yeah, that feels right. Yeah, you know what you're doing, and tell me to get so ten shots ten I think it's ten from twenty yards and ten from fifteen yards at a nine inch target? 00:37:40 Speaker 1: Got it? And you got to hit do you gotta do a background check and all that. 00:37:44 Speaker 3: I don't think if you had to do a background check it would have been maybe at the beginning. You do have to take a bow hunter's safety course at one point in your life, which is awesome because I did that when I was like fourteen, and so when I found out about the Urban Hunting Program and it was like already November the first year, I was like, I gotta do what now? And I was like, oh, man, I did that? Hey Dad, didn't I do that? Isn't that class you made me take? 00:38:07 Speaker 1: Yeah? Great? 00:38:08 Speaker 3: Now I just got to go find my certificate. Okay, but once you do that, so then so then it's an incentive program. But but the landowners are participating, they have to participate. Obviously there are parks and stuff. There are parks, and there's a system for doing the park hunting. I've always done private land hunting, either our backyard or somebody I know. And then for this one, I locked. I knocked a lot of doors. But yeah, there's parks. What else do I need to add here? It's an incentive system. So every year to get a urban buck tag in the city of Des Moines, you got to take three antlerless year. 00:38:43 Speaker 1: The year before. Man, that's earn a buck on steroids. Yeah, yeah, there's and it's different for because they're trying to lower numbers and they don't want a lot of they don't want a lot of funny business. Yeah that's right. And they don't want big buck hunters flocking in. 00:38:57 Speaker 3: No, they it's a it's a very like you got to you got to earn that urban tag for a antlered buck. 00:39:04 Speaker 1: Okay, so twenty twenty four and it resets I gather. 00:39:09 Speaker 3: Yes, and it doesn't get that gets you into the lottery. Now, most years. Oh, if you're in the lottery, most lottery, Yeah, most years. If you're in you if you get the three and you make it into the lottery, you will get an urban buck tag. God, but you're not guaranteed. You may not. And so most years I've gotten one, but there's other years where you don't. 00:39:29 Speaker 1: And how are you showing that you got the three deer? 00:39:31 Speaker 3: You have to check them in. So it used to be in person and then I don't remember if it was COVID or not, but they switched it to an online system. You got to you got to fill out your tag, you got to do your time, and you gotta submit photographs too, so that they have some certainty that this is a fresh, unique deer each time. 00:39:49 Speaker 1: Got it. So the first year participating in the urban hunt, no chance for bucks. You got to do your three doughs. That's right, that's right, yep. 00:39:56 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and uh And this year a guy sent me a picture I'd put a post up. I was like, hey, I'm uh, I'd never done that before. Usually just hunted where hunted. Hey, I'm looking for a big buck in des Moine. I've got my urban buck tag. If you know anyone, let me know if you. 00:40:16 Speaker 1: Know anyone that has a big bug I neighborhood, if you've seen a big buck in your neighborhood, let me know. 00:40:23 Speaker 3: And this guy had met at a party like ten or fifteen years ago. 00:40:26 Speaker 1: That's one of those ones where you're like, it's so stupid, it might work, yeah exactly, because like, well, who would want to tell another guy about a big buck? 00:40:33 Speaker 3: And that's the thing. 00:40:34 Speaker 1: But it might be just a guy that doesn't care. 00:40:36 Speaker 3: Yes, well, and a lot of these people are like that that that buck's eating my hostas. 00:40:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, that buck, this that the other. Because if I did an all company email, yeah yeah, And I said, if anyone knows about large buck exactly, let me know, right, I wouldn't. 00:40:51 Speaker 3: I'm not going to get replies. Yeah, but this is the city of Des Moines. People want you to take a deer, right and uh, A lot of people are just like yeah, here you go. Now there's not that many. There's now most of the hunters that are in the program who knew of this buck were like, hey, man, good for you. I did a lot of work, so he gave me one. I had one picture, man, I hoofed it. 00:41:17 Speaker 1: But there's no way the buck is only using one property. Oh no, he's he's all over. There are other people that knew of him. 00:41:22 Speaker 3: Actually the guy that measured him and and he this is green measure. He measured two nine. 00:41:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, so and he'd fill that is very very big. 00:41:34 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, maybe we wait, should we. 00:41:38 Speaker 1: Should? Well? Which which photo? 00:41:41 Speaker 3: Or are we looking at the ones in the in the. 00:41:44 Speaker 2: Dock, live live maybe trail. 00:41:47 Speaker 1: In the autumn and the autumn of his life. 00:41:49 Speaker 3: That's actually the picture he sent me. 00:41:51 Speaker 1: That's literally the one he's like, Hey, this one lives by me and so and so when I when I when I came to and picked myself up up the floor and looked again at that buck. He' said yeah, I don't know. I don't want to waste your time, but like this buck's hanging around, so it seems kind of nice. 00:42:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, describe. I mean that just looks like a tang. 00:42:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're if you're listening, main mainframe ten pointer. In this picture, you can see a one big drop time and a second smaller brow time which you can't see in this picture is actually a second drop coming off of that same g one go yeah, and he and and What's the funny thing in the picture is he looks young, but it's because his rack is so huge and he's in velvet, so you know, there's always a little shrinkage, but not that much. 00:42:36 Speaker 1: When he when the guy reaches out. When the guy reaches out, yeah, well, first off, how far I'm not familiar with des Moies. Like what he says, it's in this area. This is an area you. 00:42:47 Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm like, where do you live? He gives me his address, like thank you. You know, have you seen him other places? He's like no, I think he's only seen him once or twice. And from that point I just go to work. 00:42:59 Speaker 1: You know. 00:42:59 Speaker 3: It's just this, This is scouting. It's just more complicated when each postage stamp is another landowner. So I'm on on X, I'm looking at where he lives. I'm looking at, you know, topography, and figured out if I was a buck over there, where would I go? 00:43:14 Speaker 1: And I go. 00:43:15 Speaker 3: I knocked doors, just cold knocked on people's doors. I called people if I could get their phone numbers, just called them up. Hey, my name is Rob. There's an urban bow hunting program in de Moining to help. 00:43:26 Speaker 1: Population controls all your prosecutor training. That's right. 00:43:30 Speaker 3: Well, I'm just opening with a story, you know, just letting them know why I'm calling. And I'm wondering if you're interested. I've been in the program for thirteen years. It's never any issues for anybody. But I'm looking to hunt in your area, and I'm wondering if you'd be interested in letting me hunt on your property. Happy to answer all your questions. Some of the average acreage, oh these houses, I means than less than an acre for a lot of them, now a handful of them more Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going out in the evenings and knocking. I'm making phone calls. Some people are yes, some people are now. Occasionally people know me. Like one guy actually had my yard sign in his yard, so I was like, okay, my odds here. 00:44:15 Speaker 1: Yeah. But then on the other hand, there were folks to you but yeah, I'll not hear about that, but thank you for putting my yard signed up. 00:44:22 Speaker 3: He's like, rap, sand, you're knocking my door. I was like, well, yes, I am knocking your door, but you'll be surprised as to why. And I'm setting up cameras, you know, trying to figure out where where this guy is zero zeroing in. And I had other people say, man, if I was gonna let anybody hunt here, i'd let you. I'm with you, But I'm not gonna let you hunt here, you know. So it's just it totally depends, totally depends. Some couples, you know, you'd have the wife would be the one who's like, no, don't hunt your other couples is a husband be the one who's like, no, we don't. I don't want you to hunt here. 00:44:51 Speaker 1: And so I'm just I'm I'm I'm hitting out, I'm striking out here, I'm hitting singles here, setting up cameras zeroing in over the course of probably six weeks and summer time. Are you ever driving around and see. 00:45:03 Speaker 3: It one time? Not driving but well, okay, I'm i'm am, I'm on my bike. I'm either on my because I would take bike rides in the neighborhood to scout. It was bikeable from my house, and so I'd get on my bike and instead of going east like I might normally do, I'd go west and just bike around and be like ooh, because you know, there's stuff you can't see on on X you don't know, and you can see the path and all that. So but one time I drove into a property. I was going to go knock the door, and I look over there and there's one of the guys in his bachelor group, one of the other bucks. Oh yeah, And so I was, you know, hair on the back of my neck. It's like, all right, right, we're in the right spot here. We're making progress. So by the time we get to opening day, I got three properties where I've had him moving in the daylight on camera. What's opening day September sixteenth, something like that, like middle of September, and I set up there's it's been a southerly wind. So I set up on one where I like my chances. I got permission from two adjoining property owners. That's great because that means I can be sitting in one, but it's a small property, so I can shoot into the other. This is very helpful because they both signed the document. You got to get it signed document if you're doing private land. 00:46:23 Speaker 1: I got an interrupt the story to say, well, clarifying question, Yeah, what are the retrieval rules here? 00:46:31 Speaker 3: You know, it's it's just it's be so careful that the rules. Well, so technically speaking, in state of Iowa, if you have an animal that you have taken, you have you have legal capacity to take the most direct line to that animal across someone else's property. Now you ask law enforcement about that, and smart law enforcement. I'll tell you. Please ask. It's not that you have to ask permission. Just tell them. We don't want some we don't want altercations. We don't want someone out there with a gun being like, what are you doing on my property? So proper courtesy, best practice, knock on somebody's door. Now I've been I've been lucky. I have never had to I've never had an issue with that. You do got to let folks know that you're hunting there, if you're if you're like next door, and so a lot of these folks when I would call them and be like, hey, I'm going to be hunting in your neighborhood. You know I'm interested also in hunting on your property. So there's a notification. 00:47:28 Speaker 1: In all these years though, I mean, when you shoot, you have to put the arrow. I noticed that, Yeah, there's an arrow. There's a mark on that buck where that mark is supposed to be. But that's got to be a real thing. Yeah yeah, yeah, you know you can't be chasing them three hundred yards. 00:47:43 Speaker 3: No, you got to be careful. 00:47:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So go on where were we you were? You had two properties, shoot onto the other one. 00:47:52 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I got adjoining landowners, they both so to do private you got to have them sign a document, you know, the city's official document. The city's got to come out and inspect the property and say like, okay, these distances, separation requirements. Everything's good, all right, Yeah, yeah, they're well. I mean I was hunting not far. You know, this is urban hunting, right, Like the guys at Seek one, you know they talk about about this. You got all these new variables. Dogs, right, I've had dogs chase away a buck before. You got people out there on a walk in a park. You could have a biker out there if you're in a park. And so they're real careful about where people go. So opening day, I go out that first full weekend, I sit Saturday twice, I sit Sunday twice. Sunday morning, two minutes into hunting light, I've been in my stand for forty five minutes. 00:48:47 Speaker 1: There is is that him? Is it him? 00:48:51 Speaker 3: And you know like, you know how when you're right at hunting light, it's like, if you're in a field, great, plenty of light, but if you're in the woods, still not there. And because remember I mentioned I had seen his buddy in his bachelor group, the buddy in his bachelor group had one of the same drop times, narrower frame, shorter times, but close enough that at two minutes into hunting light under a bunch. 00:49:16 Speaker 1: Of oak trees, I'm like, is it him? Is it him? God? 00:49:20 Speaker 3: And I wait and I wait, and I probably wait three minutes. That's probably all it takes for me to be like, it's him. And by the time i'm drawn, he's out of range. 00:49:31 Speaker 1: So that's that. Oh, it was him. It was him. It was him. 00:49:35 Speaker 3: But I'm waiting because if I it was the buddy. 00:49:39 Speaker 1: Wasn't You were worried about the looklike buddy. 00:49:42 Speaker 3: I was worried about the look like buddy because I noticed, Okay, this looks like him. It's a it's a big mature You wanted to make sure it was not, Yeah, because there is no you get your one, you know, and I didn't want to screw this up. 00:49:54 Speaker 1: And you paused, and there goes your opportunity. 00:49:56 Speaker 3: Yeah, which I'm glad I did it. Yeah, you know, but there he went. So what A week later, I'm setting up a stand on another property and I turn around in the areas so I freeze, can't move. I'm there for ten minutes. Finally he just wanders away. And so I had two sightings on him, and then the next and then so let's see, So the first two weekends, I'm out literally, I'm sitting Saturday till noon, lunch break, hang out with my family, my family a little bit, go out, sit for the afternoon into the evening both Saturday and Sunday, skipping church. Lord forgive me. Uh October then and then I see him twice in that timeframe. And then like this first weekend in October, there's this cold front coming in. I'm like, all right, this is it. And I'm running for governor. By the way, at the same time, I'm doing one hundred public town halls, one in every single county across the state. And as this cold front is coming in, by the way, I'm sitting, I'm getting him on camera. Steve, it's eighty five degrees. 00:51:02 Speaker 1: But why are you already running for governor? 00:51:04 Speaker 2: Then? 00:51:04 Speaker 3: How long you got to run find isn't that stupid? Eighteen months? 00:51:08 Speaker 1: You run for governor for eighteen months. 00:51:09 Speaker 3: I wasn't even the first person in the race, but yeah, campaigns are that long these days. 00:51:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're running for governor hunting. 00:51:15 Speaker 3: I'm running for governor hunting and doing my day job and trying to be a dad and a husband. Yeah, some days are better than others. But you know, I'm doing all these town halls all across the states. I travel a lot, and here comes this cold front. Finally, because again, this buck, this is a two hundred nine inch buck. He's moving in eighty five degree heat. I've got him on camera, you know. And so I'm out there just sweating, sitting at my stand, praying that I'll be in the shade because if the sun hits me, it's over. But finally we get this cold front coming in, and I'm like, Okay, this is it because I got basically a day to hunt this cold front. After that, I'm on the road and what I'm thinking is, you know, I know there's other people who are looking for this buck. I bet I've been. This is part of the reason I'm hunting so hard, because if I don't get him. When this cold front hits, he's probably going to be moving more and someone else is going to put their tag on him, which good for them if that's what happens, Good for them. But I'm working hard when By the way, I've never done much early season hunting before big fan now because you can go out after work and you still got two hours of daylight. Oh, which one of the cool things about urban hunting. No, it's not like dark at five o'clock. Yeah, and your commute to your standards five minutes, so you're just like, all right, well, drive over there and climb up. There's one property that I hunt where i'm I'm I drive into a parking lot at like a printing chop, and there's this chunk of woods over there, and I just drive in back park in the back corner, and I walk about thirty yards and I'm in my tree. Can see your car, Yeah, I can see my car. I can see people come out for their smoke brakes. You know, like all these different variables that just make the urban stuff a little bit more complicated. 00:52:57 Speaker 2: You got to do an episode urban Hunting Station. 00:53:00 Speaker 1: It's it's it's a trip. I mean yeah, I'd have Yeah, it's a trip. I'd like, dude, I'd be nerve. I'd be it'd be nerve wracking. I I'd be all all I'd be sitting there is being like, man, I don't want to trail the deer all through the neighborhood. I do know a guy. 00:53:17 Speaker 3: I do know a guy I used to work with who was at the Attorney General's office who had a bad experience where somebody did not have fantastic arrow placement. Yeah, and the and the deer, I think with an arrow and it came into his backyard. But that is I've been doing this urban program, I think for thirteen years. That's actually the only story I know. God of a bad thing. 00:53:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, because probably people take it. They're so aware of the problem they probably self limit. Yeah. 00:53:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, and everyone who's in this program, it's a it's a cool thing to be able to do. And so we're we're careful, you know. So cold front. It's raining. I go out in the morning, it's raining, I soak through my boots. I come in for midday break, go back out, put on my insulated boots instead, climb back up. It's and then it just opens up it's dump and rain. I'm like, okay, he's not gonna move in this kind of weather. So climb out thirty yards to my truck in this in this guy's driveway. Sit in my truck for forty five minutes. It lightens up. It's still raining, but it lightens up. I'm like, all right, we got forty five minutes. Here, go back out there, climb back up. You know, I'm sitting there for ten minutes to look up. There he is, and what's you do rubbing? And I'm like, okay, here we go. It's still it's still it's still coming down, but it's not it's not terribly heavy. And the angle he's at, the spot he's at, I have to get. I'm in this really unique tree that like juts out, and so I have my climbing sticks up to here and then I can stand here even though the tree keeps going one I'm like, I need to get lower. So I get onto my top climbing stick and I take like I take like two steps down. I'm at full draw and I slip. Now I do saddle hunting, and so I'm always trying to keep my weight in my saddle and so instead of falling, I just twist out around the tree. 00:55:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, gotcha at full draw. I'm just I'm just on a ride, because yes, yes, I'm just on this really exciting ride. 00:55:29 Speaker 3: And uh, I quit swinging. I bumped the tree, but it's rating and I didn't make much noise because again there's no hook. My weight is already in the saddle. Yeah, it's kind of swing out. I stop swinging. I let down. I just get myself back onto my climbing stick. I look over. He's still rubbing. No idea draw, that's it. Forty yards yeah, still raining. So and the best part about this because you go back to, you know, the importance of just your hunting in an urban area. You really don't want to upset people. Yeah, yeah, I'm hunting at a property where the driveway has a retaining wall that backs up to it, so I can back my pickup up, lower the tailgate, and without having to field dressed the deer in the rain out in the sky's yard, just drag him in like a loading bay, yes, a literal loading bay for two hundred nine inch bucks. And then words, you head my dad's place. He got me into hunting. It was pretty cool to take that take him over, and I you know, I've been like, well, I mean Grant too. But like there were people that I was texting about this buck, like I was going hard. I've never and I'm not a this is the first time really that I had like a People say, you know, target buck. I've never really had like a target buck. I'll kind of I'm I might set up some cameras kind of see who's around and be like, oh, I'd shoot that if I saw it. But I'm not naming things. You know, I usually go out in November, I'm busy. 00:57:08 Speaker 1: What'd you name him? Be honest with you. He didn't have a name. No, now is just like the buck. Yeah yeah, I mean his name now is two o nine. But but like you know, my dad, it was one of the people I'm texting with right, Like he got me into bow hunting when I was a teenager. And it was really cool to be able to pull up that picture that you've got up there is we are in his driveway, you know. 00:57:36 Speaker 3: And uh it was, and so my dad and I are just flipping out. We get to that's the family history. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and my dad so he my dad's the first generation hunter. I'm almost certain like he might. He might have done squirrel. And obviously you go back enough generations and everybody's doing it. But my grandpa, Bob, his dad wasn't a bow hunter anyways, wasn't it wasn't a deer hunter. But my dad got me into bow hunting and we'd go out and do squirrel. We do a lot of fishing together too, But it was a pretty cool thing to share that with him. 00:58:07 Speaker 1: So did you just grab that thing and just drag it over to the retaining wall? Yes, and just out of there quick. Yeah. 00:58:15 Speaker 3: Rain, it's raining. I'm wet. I don't want to be out here any longer than I have to. And and I mean, you think about this stuff and it's like, look, you're gonna leave a gut pile out in a guy's property. 00:58:28 Speaker 1: No, you don't want to, might you? Yeah? 00:58:31 Speaker 3: But when I can just do this, then I don't have to worry about it. 00:58:35 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I think discreet is the way. 00:58:37 Speaker 3: To go, especially if you want to get permission again for next year, you know. 00:58:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to jump something for listeners. Before we started recording, Rob saying here shared with me that he well he could share with you your tax during your plan, which I think is not good. 00:58:54 Speaker 3: But oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I want the taxidermist and I'm open minded. But I shot this thing in the rain and that if you look at that picture, it's that you know, the rack's got a nice shine on it, and I talked to the taxidermist about making it look like that when it's done, like kind of like a lacquer on it to give it a shine. Steve thinks that's a dumb idea. 00:59:14 Speaker 1: Really, you can't. You'd be corrupting it. You can't paint the antlers. Well, like maybe you could rub a little what's that stuff that when your mom when you're like a little kid, your mom would sprayed on the wood furniture old English, Oh like whatever, spray the wood furniture. Yeah, with an aerosol can. Yeah, I mean maybe now and then a touch, but it's you don't want to generate your children. Yeah, child, what in the world is all over the antlers. 00:59:50 Speaker 2: In that picture? 00:59:51 Speaker 1: There's a nice shine And they'll take there's a nice shine the laquer paint. They're not gonna because it was raining. No, they'll know the answer. They'll know the answer. So I'll just be the you lackrit it and it was dumb. I had I had one buck with a big Roman nose, and I had him recreate the Roman nose. 01:00:10 Speaker 3: I I just to me that it's not when when you when you do a shoulder mount. It's not just this is that deer, but it's this is that moment. 01:00:20 Speaker 1: And I always like to tell people, by the way, you want to see the rest of them. 01:00:24 Speaker 3: Come on into the State Auditor's office. I like to call it the public sector Cabella's. You walk in and you're like, oh, a lot of deer in here, and a buffalo, then a turkey. But to me, that mount is like if you can have it, be that moment and bring that moment back, that's that's unique. 01:00:42 Speaker 1: You know. An argument you could be laying on me that I would buy, h huh is if you were saying to me, listen, man, it's my buck. That's how I want it. Oh yeah, because that's how I remember it. Yeah, but I'm stuck thinking about posterity. Yeah, future generations being why grample the deer, that's right. 01:01:01 Speaker 2: That's right, have like a spray bottle and every now and then. 01:01:04 Speaker 3: Just moist like a plant, like a plant. 01:01:08 Speaker 1: Yes, now that you say to your friends, you say your friends or future generations just say, hey, you want to see what it looked like when I shot it, and it just spreads. 01:01:19 Speaker 3: Hey, I'll tell me. I'll tell my son world, I'll tell my sons. Hey, buddy, you got to water the plants and the buck and the two O nine. 01:01:27 Speaker 1: I love that because everybody wants to see what it looked like when I got it in the rain. I love that. I love that idea. Yeah, that's the idea. 01:01:35 Speaker 3: You know, we'll see they haven't tried it before, and I don't know. 01:01:38 Speaker 1: You know. 01:01:38 Speaker 3: One of the things I was thinking about when with uh Brooklyn sitting here is like, how much do you practice? 01:01:43 Speaker 1: You know? 01:01:43 Speaker 3: I need to find somebody who's willing to just just runry dry run in that before I do it on that one. 01:01:48 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they can just take some other little sheds or take some racks and try to figure out a good right John Hayes Bill help you with that. I don't know who that Hayes tax urmy studio. All right, all right, if you want to drive it here and very far from here, it's a wrong direction. It's a scovil Taxidermy Scovel Taxadermy and Warren County, Iowa. He's in the same state, but he's real far away right here, right, all right? If you factor in so, factor in uh, factor in people that would be jealous, factor in people that would be just uncomfortable or opposed to hunting, and then factor in people that would just love it that you got that buck. Yeah, yeah, just getting the big buck. If you had the way out in your head like here I am, I'm running for covenor. Is getting the big buck net positive or net negative? Because a lot of guys are gonna be like, he don't deserve that big buck. That's right, I should have gotten that big buck. I'm not voting for him. There is a guy that definitely was was definitely saying that. One guy definitely saying that, and some people are like, how could he hurt that beautiful thing? Correct? I just literally replied to somebody about that. I'm threads today, Okay, you know, I was like, how could you do this? I mean, it's one thing if you're eating it, but you're just hunting from now. The law in the state of Iowa literally is you have to you can't waste the meat. 01:03:04 Speaker 3: It's just there's an sounding level of lack of curiosity right about hunting, you know this, like people who just don't know like you, you have to you have to eat the animal. It's literally the law in the state of Iowa. People don't know that salvage requirements yep, that too, that too. I don't know how it breaks down to me. I love hunting. I like to talk about things that I love. My social media presence, whatever channel you're on, it's probably robsand Ia, although I think on TikTok it's Rob's hand Iowa. But my social media presence is like I am a human being. I will put up a post about the brito that I had for lunch, I'll put up a post about going hunting, and then I'm gonna put up a post about how dumb it was to make it so that the auditor can't look at mispent tax money, you know, like it's it's just like these are basically like me. They're my accounts, and I understand that some people that might make them upset, but like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna not be who I am, are going to be who I am. And if some people don't like it, that's okay, but other people do. The other thing is and I kind of like this. I love the idea of surprising people when it comes to partisanship expectations. Yeah right, yeah, I like that all that stuff you talked about, right, was like, Oh, look at this guy. He sounds like a Republican, but he's a Democrat. Do you know what I sound those descriptions to me? I'm like, that just sounds like somebody from small town Iowa. Like a lot of people in small town Iowa do that. Those values, those traditions, those don't belong to a political party. And I love the idea of being like out there is like, yeah, I am a Democrat. Yeah, I do like to hunt. 01:04:39 Speaker 1: Now. 01:04:40 Speaker 3: I'm also out there as someone who thinks that we should end the special legal privileges of the Democratic and the Republican parties. I've yet to hear a good reason for why we are stuck having the lesser of two evils on every freaking ballot and feeling like, well, you know, you've never done a thing for me, but boy, this one I really don't like. So I guess I have to vote for you, right, But uh, like I was. I was an independent when I first registered to vote. I realized not long after that that in Iowa to vote in the primary, you have to join a party. 01:05:12 Speaker 1: It's a close it's called close. You got it, closed primary. Can I swear on this program? Yeah, like, don't say anything crazy campaign. I just won't swear then. No, no, you swear a little bits. That's a terrible idea. This is America. You're going to be like it was BS. 01:05:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say I could have got that is BS. 01:05:33 Speaker 1: Hogwash is good. 01:05:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're telling me. 01:05:37 Speaker 1: That's the less common one for Iowa. We got a lot of hogwash. We got less horse, Bucky. 01:05:43 Speaker 3: You're telling me in America, where we celebrate Independence Day, we're going to tell independent voters that they are less equal and they don't get to participate in our democracy. That's hogwash, right, Yeah. 01:05:52 Speaker 1: But that's what it is. 01:05:53 Speaker 3: We have these we have these close primaries. Guys, we have two private clubs that run the United States of America. That's what it is. It is absolutely wrong, and I think we should change it. 01:06:04 Speaker 1: But I did. 01:06:05 Speaker 3: I registered as a Democrat because I think Jesus is for the little guy and my perception, particular at the time of the Democratic Party is that was the party for the little guy. I'm trying to make it stay that way. And I also remember Clinton when he was president as a Democrat, balancing the budget and using the surplus to in part to pay down the debt. And I was like a teenager, and I just remember thinking, like, oh, thanks, because I don't have to pay for all that someday, you know. And those are the reasons basically that our registered as a Democrat for the most part. Also, as a guy that liked to hunt and fish, I was like, well, they want to keep the places I like to hunt and fish clean and pure. And that's good too, but that doesn't change the fact that, like, why should I have to join a private club to exercise my sacred right to vote? 01:06:44 Speaker 1: That's messed up. Yeah, That's one of the thing I talked about very when I talk about my own politics often, or I talk about sort of the politics of hunting and fishing. Often describe a put it negatively, I'll say, you always have to be paranoid. Yeah. To put it positively, which I never do, it would be that each side helps you out in some ways. That's right. But yes, when it comes to environmental protections, clean air, clean water, right habitat preservation, we find a lot of friends in the Democratic Party. When it comes to acceptance support of the culture of hunting, firearm rights, people that are kind of like out there and proud of outdoor heritage, we find a lot of friends in the Republican Party. But at the same time, I just I don't want to use the word hate. I do not like. I don't like the two party system. And it's not even the system that bugs me. What bugs me is the way the system enforces itself. Yes, do you know what I mean? The way you have to It drives people insane if you don't take all your views and fit them into the box. 01:08:10 Speaker 3: Get in the box. 01:08:11 Speaker 1: And when you see someone in the political world, when you see them, it's it's painful to watch when you see someone and they get to the point where they go, Man, I need to start pretending I think a thing I don't think, because here I am in this complex world and I need to BOXI five. So it's not it's not even the parties I have a problem with. It's not the two party system. I have a party with I have a problem with how organized, and so there's. 01:08:42 Speaker 3: A there's a reinforcing culture around the two party system. Yeah yeah, and I say that at every one of my town halls, we go in hard on how broken that system is because it tells us there's only two ways to think to your point, Yeah, we know, that's ridiculous. There's literally five people in their room. That's five ways to think right now. And so we start these things out, we do, you know, we say the system is broken. You've all been invited here to help change it. So raise your hand. If you're a Republican, we clap for the Republicans who are in attendance. Raise your hand. If you're an independent voter, we clap for the independent voters who are in attendance. And then say, I'm all big on fairness, So let's clap for the Democrats too, right, And then let's prove to ourselves but also to everyone else who wants us to hate each other, because then we're easier to control. Let's prove to everyone that we all, despite our differences, can work together. Let's sing the first verse of America, the beautiful Oh yeah, and so a hundred times across the state of Iowa this year. We did that. I don't lead it. The point is we all sing. My microphone is like, you know, down by my knees, and it's a wonderful moment for people to just have this. Hold on a second, that's right. We can just do this differently. Yeah, And usually by the time that's over, there's one person in the audience you can find who's having an experience, like feeling something right. That's what I want us to push towards. I mean, I look at what we did, what they did in the state of Iowa, and I'm like, they literally are so comfortable thinking that this is going to be one party control forever that they passed the law that auditors around the United States of all political persuasions said will increase waste found abuse because they think they own this thing. You know, the two party system fundamentally is broken. And you pick an issue, right, could be water quality, could be Second Amendment. Part of the issues around that issue are where they are, and they are the magnitude that they are because the incentive in the political system is for people to throw bombs at each other and have a food fight instead of actually sitting down and saying, hey, let's figure out how we're going to solve this problem. And if you break down those special legal privileges that the Democratic and the Republican parties have and you give us a real market for political candidates, we'll start to see changes where we are in more control. We the people are in more control of the politicians rather than feeling like we're sort of stuck into supporting them. Yeah, that's my number one thing. Any other issue gets fixed more easily when you have as system that's actually responsive to the people. 01:11:16 Speaker 1: What does it look like when you're doing this as you as you campaign, I'm not I'm not even clear on how you guys haven't got to the primary yet, no next June. How many people are in that there's a Well, we'll. 01:11:31 Speaker 3: Find out because the the qualifying for the ballot thing like filing your paperwork to get on the ballot for the primary, happens in like February February March. So maximum three, one of them. 01:11:46 Speaker 1: Is maximum three. 01:11:47 Speaker 3: Well, who have announced, oh there could be any number three on the Democratic side have announced. One's a nice guy named Paul that's announced for many offices. And I'm not sure that he's ever collected enough signatures. 01:12:00 Speaker 1: Uh. 01:12:00 Speaker 3: The others a lovely nady named Julie that I've known for years and I think the world of and and then there's me, got it. 01:12:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so this all plays out in November, so so primary in June and then yeah, same data as the midterms for the for the the election. 01:12:20 Speaker 3: And then on the Republican side, there's five candidates over there, I think, yeah, close to five. 01:12:25 Speaker 1: Five. Krinn sent me a thing where you draw you were drawing a distinction between politics and public service. Yes, what's you take on that? 01:12:33 Speaker 3: Well, it's kind of the piece of what we're talking about here, right is, you know, politics is passing a law that everybody who's an expert in auditing degrees is going to make it harder to find misspent money public services. The six Republicans and the Iowa House that voted against that, despite the fact that their party wanted them to support it. Good good for the six of them. They stood up to do the right thing. I'm proud of every one of them. And I look at every one of them and I see, you know, yeah, we can have disagreements, but you showed some courage on that day. 01:13:04 Speaker 1: Good for you. 01:13:06 Speaker 3: Public service is John McCain taking the microphone away from that woman back in the debates when she was like, you know, saying what I don't remember what it was specifically, but like some kind of conspiracy theory about Obama. He takes a microphone, he says, ma'am, and he just sort of says, he says something positive about his opponent. That's public service. What you're saying is a class act man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like that's that to me, is that's that's public service. So much of the pushes around party, show me people who want to do it right, you know, show me people who were there not to be a Democrat or a Republican, but to try to do the right thing, figure out what the truth is, and then do the right thing. Those are the people that I want to work with. I don't care if they're Democrats or Republicans or independents or whatever. I want to work with people who just are focused on like I'm trying to I'm trying to do this, I'm trying to be right. 01:14:01 Speaker 1: Here's a good example. 01:14:03 Speaker 3: I'll toot my own horn here. I got elected in twenty eighteen. First decision was who am I going to put into two highest positions in the Auditor's office. I picked an independent and a Republican who had made campaign contributions to my opponent. 01:14:17 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so. 01:14:20 Speaker 3: I put them in those highest positions because I want to be a state author that's serving the whole state. And I want everybody to know that whether or not you supported me is not the determinant of whether or not I'm going to listen to you, got it, And I am here to serve everybody. 01:14:38 Speaker 1: Now, people who like politics are like, Rob, that's the wrong way to do this. You're supposed to punish the people to oppose you. What do you do when you're crazy? 01:14:46 Speaker 3: And my attitude to that is like, well, I'm not trying to accumulate all the power. I'm trying to just do the right thing, like the concept of statesmanship, right, Like, Okay, the election's over, I won mean or meaner, Too bad for you, But come on board. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. You can be a part of this too. I want your input. Every once in a while, I'm almost slightly incorrect. What's your family think about? 01:15:12 Speaker 1: This? Is your wife sweating it? 01:15:15 Speaker 3: If you win? You know, it's a great question. She understands, she's a believer in it. She understands why it's important. She thinks we need a new direction in the state of Iowa. She doesn't love it. She's got her own actually her she runs her family business, which actually is all about improving the efficiency of the food system. 01:15:38 Speaker 1: You appreciate it. 01:15:39 Speaker 3: I like to describe it as using the every part of the proverbial buffalo. Oh so they take materials from slaughterhouses around the United States and figure out something they could. 01:15:51 Speaker 1: Do with it. Oh really yeah, yeah, yeah, it's rendering and whatnot. On one of the things they do is rendering God. Yeah, no, kid, Yeah, she. 01:16:00 Speaker 3: Works there running it and so and so, you know she did. 01:16:04 Speaker 1: Politicians always say they're going to ask their wife or whatever. They're gonna talk to their wife. They're gonna ask their wife her. Do you actually go do that? Do they do? Do they go say like, hey, can I run for governor? 01:16:14 Speaker 3: The distinction I would make is the people who were like, we sat down with our children and had a family discussion. I'm always like, really, your children, we sent our shout for family discussion. 01:16:22 Speaker 1: That's see. You guys gotta go in the other room. We're gonna have a family discussion, older yours, my daughter's I got a I got a ten. My daughter's thirteen in a couple of days, and I got a fifteen years right, Okay, so we got two boys, they're nine and eleven. We have the family discussion. Then they come in and we tell them what it was there, We tell them what was that's a lot closer. 01:16:40 Speaker 3: That's a lot closer, and we'll explain why this decision was made. 01:16:43 Speaker 1: Right, and my like, no, we're not going to Disneyland. And there's a thousand reasons why, but the biggest one is we don't like Disneyland. Our boys actually thankfully have never asked to go to Disneyland. But but no, like will she and I talk about this absolutely, you know, that's it's a big decision. She's the same with running for state auditor too, you know, lower, lower office. 01:17:02 Speaker 3: But still a big decision. When when politicians are like we sat down and we listened to our kids to I'm like, really, you let a nine year old decide, like what you're gonna do with your life? 01:17:12 Speaker 1: You run for higher yeah, or any office any It's like yeah, right, no, right. 01:17:19 Speaker 3: City council. I just be like, well, my kid, my kid is a child. They don't understand what this means. This is a big decision and it's important. We will let them know what we've decided, similar to you. Yeah, and no, they're not in the room, because if they're in the room when Christina and I are talking about it, then they're gonna have input regardless. 01:17:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Man. The part about it that really gets me is, uh, maybe it hasn't happened yet, but god, you gotta get some thick skin man. 01:17:48 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:17:49 Speaker 1: Because towards the end, dude, they get ugly. They do, they do. They're gonna be like, his book wasn't that big? 01:17:58 Speaker 4: It measured two o seven. They're like, not net, that's right, that's right. He's told you it was two o nine. But that's gross. And we don't mean I'm saying girls score a lot of that stuff. 01:18:18 Speaker 1: You know. I've spent seven years in courtrooms, plenty of plenty of criminal defendants and defense attorneys, you know, telling people wrong about this or did a terrible job on that. 01:18:27 Speaker 3: That's okay. I've run two campaigns already. I'm accustomed to it. To a certain degree. But then there's also I mean, the ultimate thing to me is just the serenity prayer. I can't control what other people say about me. This is a great rule for my serenity prayer, you know, and I'll probably screw it up, but it's something to the effect of God grant me the oh, the courage a change the things I can, the wisdom, no, the serenity to accept the things I cannot. Know the difference, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't control what other people say about me. I know they're gonna lie about me. They're lying about me already. All I could do is live my life and make my own decisions and be honest with people about what I believe and what I think we need to be doing. And if they pick me, great. If they don't, that's the right. 01:19:11 Speaker 1: You can be like, screw y'all, I'm going hunting. That's right. 01:19:14 Speaker 3: There are many days where let's not even get into it. 01:19:20 Speaker 1: So would you be able to be like would you be able to be the hunting like a hunting governor? 01:19:24 Speaker 3: I mean, I just would be so. So both of my jobs as both state auditor and as a prosecutor, I can find ways sitting quiet in in a tree stand to be productive. 01:19:36 Speaker 1: Back in the. 01:19:36 Speaker 3: Day when I was prosecuting and I'd have to like maybe listen to a witnesses interview, Well I'll go listen with one one one ear piece in while I'm in a tree stand reading. I can read audit reports while I'm in a tree stand on a tablet, you know, on a and that works fine. I can read them print it out. So there's a there's a way to balance things. It's also just a really good place to do some thinking. Just you're into you're in the woods, you're by yourself. No, maybe you're thirty feet from a parking lot, but it's not that different. 01:20:10 Speaker 1: What are some environmental issues that that I mean, I know you're got I think so often a policy on at federal level. 01:20:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh sure, sure, sure. 01:20:19 Speaker 1: Well local like I think about things in my state, I think about things in Alaska a lot, and I think federal. So so you're whatever you bring up, I'm probably not gonna know what it is. But give me an example of of a habitat issue, an environmental issue that's going on where you're at, how you look at it, how you talk about it to people. 01:20:44 Speaker 3: We've got a We've got a very much a percolating issue with water quality right now. We've got a water quality problem in Iowa, record beach closures this summer, very high nitrate levels, just egg runoff. A lot of it is egg runoff, but it's not exclusively agron off. And the important thing I always try to get people to remember is farmers are signing up for conservation programs and getting turned away because these politicians won't put in the funding. 01:21:13 Speaker 1: And to me, that's been a huge that that's federal. Yeah, that's great, that's right, and that's been a huge headache. Man. Yep. 01:21:20 Speaker 3: So some of it's federal, some of it's not. Opening it up farmers. And this is survey after survey of farmers and growers and producers in the state of Iowa. They care about their impact on water quality, they care about their impact on the environment, They want to do better, survey after survey, but nine of farm income goes to the biggest ten percent of farms. A lot of farmers are just scraping by, and so they're putting together a plan saying, hey, I'll put my money into this plan. Here's what I'm going to do on this acreage on this parcel. Here's what I'm going to do over there, but I'm applying for the cost share because I can't do this whole thing by myself. 01:22:00 Speaker 1: Mm. 01:22:00 Speaker 3: And politicians aren't funding the programs enough and that of course, then the farmer's like, well then I can't do that, and all the rest of us are saying, well, then again, we don't see the improvements in water quality because it's not moving fast enough. 01:22:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they don't kill the program, they just don't move the money to it. 01:22:16 Speaker 3: Right, it's still there and they can say, oh, we put this much into this program this year, But what they don't tell you is actually that much was applied for people want to do it, and instead they run around and try to divide us from each other because we got this again broken two choice system where they just try to say, oh, if so and so is talking about water quality, that means they're anti this or anti that. 01:22:37 Speaker 1: No. 01:22:37 Speaker 3: Actually, a lot of the people who are farming, who are growing, who are producing, they too want to help improve water quality. It's politicians that aren't giving them the money to do it. 01:22:46 Speaker 1: Oftentimes, so putting so acridgenda conservation programs. It could be that. 01:22:54 Speaker 3: I mean, it could be putting in terraces, lots of different practices, could like improvements, ye, provements that just help water quality. I mean, maybe it's we are we are forty ninth in public land Iowa is, so maybe it's having more public land, but maybe it's actually just having more forty ninth forty ninth I would guess that. I think eighty five percent of Iowa is farmed or used in some way for agricultural production. So I'd like us to improve that. You got a lot of folks access issues, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like there's a couple of there's a couple of Facebook bow hunter groups that I've been active in for a long time, and you always get a little bit extra credit, you know, if you're out there on public land to fill that tag. But we still just don't have that much by comparison to every other state. Do you guys have good stream access laws? If you get into a river, can you can you travel and. 01:23:47 Speaker 1: Anchor and wait? 01:23:48 Speaker 3: Or that's actually a great question. You can travel, I don't know about anchoring. You can you could wade. I don't know to what degree got it, I would imagine because I'm just thinking mostly about like literally the size of a lot of rivers in Iowa. We got some of the best trout fishing in Midwest actually up in my hometown in Decora. A lot of these streams are teeny tiny. I mean you're talking about like nobody was a fly fisher when I was growing up in northeast Iowa. Because your stream is two and a half e whide. 01:24:22 Speaker 1: Got it. 01:24:23 Speaker 3: So you're you're you're standing there just plinking a spinner in and reeling it up, not float tripping. 01:24:29 Speaker 1: No, no, I'm with you. 01:24:31 Speaker 3: And so waiting is like, you know, there's not even why would you The only thing I'm going to do by waiting is let trout trut know that somebody is in that in that stream with them. 01:24:41 Speaker 1: That the stream access thing and the water access thing is. That's not something I discussed when I was grew up in Michigan, but it's a huge issue out here. Sure, sure with the with the larger rivers and whether you get on them. And I've been I've been vocal about the corner crossing stuff too. 01:24:57 Speaker 3: I Mean that's just that's like such a no brainer to me, Like, look, no one is doing anything to your property. I'm going to go from this public parcel here to that one that they touch each other. I can't imagine the attitude of someone who says, like, no, I don't want you to do that. 01:25:14 Speaker 1: Well, i'll tell you the court. The courts all agree with you. 01:25:17 Speaker 3: Good, but it's not it hasn't been. 01:25:19 Speaker 1: Is it done. It's it's done that it's done in that the Ninth. So it was appealed and appealed and appeal the ninth Circuit Court. So the Federal ninth Federal Circuit Court ruled it it's legal. They tried to appeal to the Supreme Court. They wouldn't hear it. Supreme Court said, feel settled us. Great, they didn't take the case it. What has yet to happen is the Ninth is Wyoming only cover wark. That's only good in New Mexico. But if you can rely on it still yeah, but the Tenth, like I guess what would happen is right now, it'll take a little time to see if people corner cross and what prosecutor's attitude, because theoretically a prosecutor can still try to prosecute it. You could. I don't think there's a prosecutor in the State of Montana that it's going to take that case. I would hope not. 01:26:15 Speaker 3: There's no way I would think you'd have more people upset with you about it than you would have happy with you. 01:26:18 Speaker 1: And why would you want to invite what happened down in Wyhoming. 01:26:21 Speaker 3: Well, and then especially what you're going to end up with is like, Okay, look, technically speaking, the Ninth Circuit decision doesn't apply outside of the Ninth Circuit, but we all know it exists. We all know the Supreme Court denied certification. At your point, so are you, as the prosecutor, going to put all these resources into a case that you think, at the end of the day you're probably going to lose. 01:26:42 Speaker 1: Yeah. And in the case, they relied on this Unlawful Enclosures Act, which is an old grazing Act Unlawful Enclosures Act, oh, interest that was cited and that applies here. Yeah, that applies outside of the Ninth Circuit. Yeah, So it's like there's still some level of confusion. It would have been kind of cool if the Supreme Court had taken it. Yeah. On the other hand, the w Yeah, yeah, it could have been kind of cool if if they want to just making it like just absolute law the land instead just the ramifications are gonna be slowed. Yeah. 01:27:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, still though, I guess I and and and that's you know, and that's the other trick too, because if you're if a lot of the folks that are out there hunting public land is because they don't have access to private lan. Yeah, and so they're not the kind of person who's like, suit me, I've got the resources to fight this out. 01:27:32 Speaker 1: Now. 01:27:33 Speaker 3: I'm betting that there's you know, uh, hunting advocacy organizations that would cover their legal expenses. But do they know that when they're standing there at that corner and they want to do that cross. 01:27:44 Speaker 1: That's what happened in whom But no, they didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we spent we spent money on it. A lot of people spend money on it. Yeah. 01:27:50 Speaker 3: I listened to the I like the nature is nonpartisan. Guy, you guys had one back, Yeah, yeah. A lot of stuff that he says is kind of like in in the same thinking is the sort of anti two party system approach, just like we need to break break down the boxes, just get people to the point where you are free to think the way you think, tell people what you believe. The other benefit of it, too is I actually think you get the politicians have more and of incentive to be honest about their opponents and to be truthful because if you have Alaska actually is a great example of this. They have a reformed system. They have a single open primary, public primary. Every candidate is on it. Every voter, including the Independence can walk in. You just vote for your one favorite, and they send the top four or five to the general election, and then they do rank choice voting. The other thing I think is pretty simple is approval voting. Here are four candidates, vote for as many of them as. 01:28:51 Speaker 1: You approve of. 01:28:52 Speaker 3: Oh and so if you and me and Karin are running for office against each other and we have approval voting, I'm going to inherently understan that each of you have a bunch of people that really want you to win. But some of those people will also support me if I behave in a way that attracts their support. So instead of being like krinn is the scum of the yearth you know, I'm gonna be like I like Krinn all but deserves to die. 01:29:18 Speaker 1: That's right, yes, right, But I don't want to take it too far. 01:29:21 Speaker 3: She's out to destroy your way of life. You know, if instead I highlight areas of agreement, if I tell you, you know, like I, Oh, we've texted for years, it was so fun to actually, you know, if I say positive things about somebody instead of running them into the ground, then more of your supporters will also support me. And maybe it's only thirty percent, but if I can get thirty percent of your supporters to also back me instead of five percent, that helps me win. So we could have a system. It actually incentivizes civility honesty, right, because if I'm lying, all your supporters can be like, that's a lie. He's terrible. I don't approve of him. Break down these walls, make politicians behave like normal people. Do that, and we can start really solving a lot of problems. 01:30:10 Speaker 1: After I've been more careful about this. But after Charlie kirk Kirk was killed, I started being like, now if I'm saying something, if I'm talking about a politician, I'll be like, man, he loves his country, he loves his family. I don't agree with him about Buffalo it is. 01:30:33 Speaker 5: I think that's like I don't see how the eye on that. But let's just clarify that's right. I think that's loves America. I think that's a step in the right direction. But you don't see people do it very often. And this is you know what's funny too, is like if I mentioned those those bow hunting Facebook groups I'm in, they're like the two most supportive Facebook groups I've ever seen, just people being like, good for you. 01:30:57 Speaker 3: You know, someone to put a post up right then, and it'll be someone who like, man, I've been hunting for three years. I finally got my first deer. It'll be a Spike book then, like every single every single comment and maybe this is an Iowa thing that they don't want. 01:31:10 Speaker 1: They don't feel the need to tear them down. 01:31:12 Speaker 3: No, everyone's like, dude, way to go, way to be persistent, good for you. Like ordinary people we live in a world. Part of human nature is working together, supporting each other. And you look at the comments on these posts and these Facebook groups for hunting, and everybody is in there. They're not being like I would have shot that out of giving them four years to a t. They're all just like, way to go. 01:31:37 Speaker 1: Shoot. What makes you proud? 01:31:39 Speaker 3: If you're happy with that book. 01:31:40 Speaker 1: We love that book. Way to go, good for you. 01:31:42 Speaker 3: I was actually I just I just saw this article about they just did I can't remember if it's like light ar, but somebody up in the Andes found funnels. 01:31:51 Speaker 1: Yeah did you see those? About that? Oh? They found them under lake? Erie? Yeah? 01:31:56 Speaker 3: Oh no, way, all right, So we're talking like tens of thousands of years ago human beings are building funnels two Hunt, I think I said, Eerie. 01:32:04 Speaker 1: I think I said, Erie, you're supposed to stay here on but please continue? All right, all right? One of them you're a Michigan, one of them. Yeah right, I'm like, I'm like, I know which one Michigan is. 01:32:15 Speaker 3: Uh. But that's human history, that's human nature. People tens of thousands of years ago building walls together to help funnel animals into the right and easiest place to kill them. 01:32:26 Speaker 1: Right before I did my buffalo Hunt read American Buffalo. 01:32:29 Speaker 3: Love reading that book. Oh like you, But that was so fun learning about because a lot of us I didn't know, you know, pointing them to the now and now. Of course I'm blanking on it, you know, getting them to the hill where there's the drop on the other side, the jump side. Yeah, but they're working together right to make the job easier for everybody later on. But yet here we are with this political system that incentivizes anger and division and hatred and lying we're so much better than it. 01:32:57 Speaker 1: It's a mess. How It's gonna be hard for you to answer, honestly. There's a there's a piece of marital advice. Yanni, my buddy Yanni introduced me to it. Let's say you're fighting with your wife, yeah, and then you realize you're fighting about something you don't really care about. So what they'll do is the say me and crann are having a big fight about where this microphone would be, and I realized at some point I'm arguing, like hell, but I's just like, I honestly don't It doesn't really but I'm just here. Why am I arguing? I'm just here arguing, Yeah, And I love my argument, And I would wind up saying it's a three out of ten for me. I love that it's a three out of ten, right, And Krin's like, well it's a ten, yeah, and you're ten on that microphone. And I'm like, okay, that is a great idea, Right, I'm gonna try to put that into practice. Yeah, but you gotta be honest. But that's not the thing. You got to be honest about shits. No, no, if you set yourself like you put all this time, eighteen months and all that. Yeah, how much do you get in your head? How much do you get in your head about what if you fail? 01:34:16 Speaker 3: Not very much. I just work the hardest I can every day against serenity, prayer. Yeah, you know, what if I fail? 01:34:23 Speaker 1: I don't know. 01:34:23 Speaker 3: I'll think about that if I fail. 01:34:25 Speaker 1: I've never been able to sit around being all depressed about that idea. 01:34:28 Speaker 3: I've never been a big anticipator, got it. You know, like there's people who like, what's it going to be like when I this? 01:34:34 Speaker 1: When I that? 01:34:35 Speaker 3: For for big things and for little things. 01:34:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. 01:34:38 Speaker 3: I'll find out when I get there. So this this buck for two minutes into honey light when I saw him. I typically do not get buck fever. I've taken I want to say, eight popen young bucks. It's funny because I capped out. I've got three between in the one four four in the one fifties, like one fifty three to one fifty nine. I've been stuck for years right, But every one of those bucks I've never gotten. Really the shakes. Okay, this buck I did. I wasn't thinking like, oh I wonder if I'll get buck fever. Finally when this buck shows up, it just happened. And then again the second time when I'm putting up the tree stand, it just happened. Third time, world around, cool as a cucumber, got it. But I've just never been someone who's like, well, what if I this, or what if I that life's gonna happen By the time I get there, I'll figure it out. What I can do right now today is put all of my effort into making sure the outcome that I want is the outcome that happens. 01:35:37 Speaker 1: Got it? Yeah? Well, man, I hope that you come out of this whatever happens. Yeah, I hope you come out of this with the same spirit that you have now. 01:35:50 Speaker 3: I appreciate that. I hope I do too. 01:35:53 Speaker 1: I hate to see something bad happen. Yeah, I'm gonna sit there watching now. On election night, I'm gonna be watching. All right. All right, Well, we're freeling pretty good. The only the only pole we've seen has us up by two. But those aren't worth a whole lot. A lot's going to happen between now and a year from nowns Man, So we'll see where it goes up. By two in the primary. No, no, in the they test. 01:36:15 Speaker 3: This is a poll that tested me versus sort of a Republican front runner or perceived front runner. Who knows who it is at the end of the day. So but that's, you know, worth a little bit more than the paper it's printed on. At this point, we're happy to see it. We're not surprised to see it. We're just going to keep working hard every day. Are your campaign sign is going to be your buck photo? Actually I should send you, I should send you. 01:36:38 Speaker 1: And it's like a griff and grin I used to do. 01:36:40 Speaker 3: I used to do parades and I'd have my shoulder mounts hanging off the side of my truck and my and my my my sign would say Rob Sand for State auditor bow hunter or no, it was like Rob Sand bow hunter and state auditor. He'll find our buck. That's good, it's fun. It's fun. I love every every every campaign cycle. We've always had funny ads like making fun of me. Big target. You know, you don't need to be proficient for that one big target. But if I can make people laugh, whether it's on a parade or it's a TV commercial, like that public service you asked about, public service, Like that is a public service. We are living in very strange, oftentimes dark times. If I can give you an opportunity to put a smile on your face, like I have done a good thing, that's good to Yeah. So yeah, we've we'll probably do I don't know if we'll do something. We haven't really talked about it, but we've done it in the past. The TV ads haven't been hunting oriented, but the parade floats have been. 01:37:44 Speaker 1: I should probably ask you a couple of technical hunting questions. Sure, when you're hunting those tight confines mm hm, and you just can't have one running off you shoot mechanicals? Oh boy, do we have this? 01:37:56 Speaker 3: I got a long end. 01:37:57 Speaker 1: I don't want to hit you with contentious No. No, I don't want to you with like the gotcha stuff. 01:38:01 Speaker 3: I got a long answer to this one. So I used to shoot fixed blade. You got to take your shirt off of thistle warm here, a little warmon here. I used to shoot fixed blade. 01:38:11 Speaker 1: Okay, then I saw this study from what is it Quality Deer Management Association QDMA good, and. 01:38:22 Speaker 3: Again like I'm a numbers guy. My in college, my honors thesis was a statistical analysis on a data set that I built with over forty thousand data points in it. And so they're this cute. I think it was QDMA, but it was out there on the internet. And they did this study in a permit only hunting environment, I think on a maybe on a military base. I'm pretty sure it was in Maryland, and they found that mechanicals gave you. Mechanicals gave you a higher recovery rate. 01:38:49 Speaker 1: Got it. 01:38:50 Speaker 3: That was all I needed. Again, like I'm I'm I like truth. I like numbers, and even though I've been shooting fixed blades, I read that, I'm like, all right, now I'm shooting mechanicals. I switched to mechanicals, I think at the same time I switched to the deep six, like the micro diameter arrows, and so I got these ones. I'm not going to get into brands, but yeah. 01:39:11 Speaker 1: Because you lose all the voters, you know, I don't shoot the other brand. I was into that sand guy. 01:39:19 Speaker 4: And then he said he shoots rages, and now I think he sucks. 01:39:22 Speaker 3: I was gonna, ho there you go. I just don't want to. It's less about that I didn't. I was not satisfied with the performance. I switched back to the same fix that I was using, just I knew they were reliable. 01:39:39 Speaker 1: I liked him. 01:39:41 Speaker 3: But then when I travel on the state, there's a few hunting archery shops. I'll go into one of them's in El cater Iowa. The guy that owns this guy named Dave, got. 01:39:48 Speaker 1: To know him. 01:39:49 Speaker 3: You know, I'll pop in, might only be once a year, but pop in to say, IH to Dave, see what he's got. 01:39:54 Speaker 1: What he's got, and he gave me. 01:39:56 Speaker 3: He was like, you got to shoot these because I was telling him, you know, like I switched to mecanic because I saw this study that says you get a better recovery rate. But it's been really frustrating. I switched to a two blade. I think the two blade if you hit it, if your blades are not vertical, and let's say you shoot quarter in a way right, Let's say your blades are like this, You're going to hit that deer and one is going to flip out and the other one's not, and so all of the trajectory and the energy of your arrow is going to twist. Probably it's just not going to get you the pass through that you want, and maybe that was the issue. But regardless of what the issue is, Dave was like, you got to shoot these, and he hands me a pack. You want, we can talk brands, grim reapers. It's a four blade mechanical and four blade mechanics, four blade mechanical, so it's just you know, there's one that comes out on each no collar on it, so it's like nothing to mess around with. The ones I had had callers on them, and I didn't buy him the first year that he recommended him. I'm typically just like taking information right, but eventually I just to buy him. Man, that's all I'm shooting. 01:41:02 Speaker 1: Now. That's a shot two o nine. That's what I shot, the two and nine, two nine, that's what you shot two O nine. I like the two on nine, So like the four O nine beach Boy nine. 01:41:12 Speaker 3: I should rewrite my four o nine. Thank you. 01:41:17 Speaker 1: There we go. We're going to rewrite it my two o nine. The problem name in bucks actual names. Yeah, there's a story where there's two stories. Mark Kenyon had a buck named Frank and he called someone and said, I shot Frank No, and people can take that wrong way. And Jeff Foxforthy has that story where he had a buck named a person's name and he told his wife, I shot I shot Dame, not who's dad from? Why did you do that? 01:41:47 Speaker 3: Do I need to pack you a bag? 01:41:49 Speaker 1: Where are you right now? But yeah, I shot the two O nine. I'm like, that sounds like a that's a buck. Yeah, little split time, that's our drop point. That's nine, that's right. Uh so yeah, I switched to these grim Reapers. 01:42:03 Speaker 3: Every single shot now just max forty yards and drop hm big exit. 01:42:11 Speaker 1: I'll check it out. They're pretty good. I like to argue about this with Tony Peterson. All right, yeah you don't, I mean no, but all right, I think it's an interesting conversation. It's one of the more interesting ones I think that there is in archery right now. Yeah, for a while, I quit. I tried to. For there's a couple of years when I tried to not argue about gear. 01:42:34 Speaker 3: That's just like not possible. 01:42:36 Speaker 1: I know, especially for you. 01:42:37 Speaker 3: I might be able to get away with it. 01:42:38 Speaker 1: You know. Those guys that do that, they're like, uh, they'll say, well works for me. Yeah, like no, mony like I could say to you, study after study after study, right has shown that, well, that's what works for me. Right, and it just shuts It's just shooting. 01:42:54 Speaker 3: I'm shooting field points that works. 01:42:56 Speaker 1: It works for me. Yeah, and it just shuts everything down. So instead of arguing about gear, because I'll say, you know, of course my boots are the best. Yeah, you know, my headlamp is the best. My buddy recently observed you always have the best headlamp, but you always have a different headlamp. 01:43:14 Speaker 3: That's a great point. That is such a good point. 01:43:17 Speaker 1: That's frustrating, the one that you had a week ago that was the best. 01:43:22 Speaker 3: I'm picturing that Onion headline right now, World's worst person just made an amazing point. Right, It's like, ah, you're right. 01:43:29 Speaker 1: So I tried to quit. I'm back in though now. Yeah. Yeah, I'll argue about it, but I seriously I wish you good luck, Thank you. 01:43:36 Speaker 3: I appreciate that. 01:43:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like, I like I want to I like talking to people in the political space who don't want to burn everything down. 01:43:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, there's a great, a great line. I'm trying to remember who said it, and I can't. But any old meal can kick a barn down. Takes a carpenter to build one. Yeah, we got a lot of building to do. 01:43:58 Speaker 1: Yeah we do. Yeah, glue and stuff back together. Amen. Yeah. I hope you whatever happens in your campaign, you your opponents, I hope you do that, and I wish you lucky out on that night. 01:44:11 Speaker 3: I'm gonna be watching, all right. 01:44:12 Speaker 1: I appreciate that if we hear about Iowa all the time, because you guys vote real early, and that's right, that's right, it'll be easy track all Rob saying, Iowa, Iowa's state auditor. You got it running for the position of governor. 01:44:29 Speaker 3: And chief white tail bow hunter. 01:44:33 Speaker 1: If you're in Des Moines and you don't like hunting and you see a very large buck and you're in town there, call Rob. That's right, don't call anybody else. Please send photo of buck. Will provide venison. Thank you very much. 01:44:55 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thanks,