00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is Me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on X. On the subject of wind, we've been talking about what it's very tall people, how windy it is? You honest, so they don't think that I'm just, you know, strudlin. It's the windiest I think I've ever seen it since I've moved to Montana five years ago. It's so windy that Jana's got reports from an eighty mile winds and oh yeah, over in big timber rancher ship working cattle ship and cattle and he says his eye are swollen from all the small particles that have been blown into his eyeballs the last two days that windy. I thought my windows might implode towards me. This morning as I was making coffee, it was so windy and the glass was flexing. Extremely windy. We have a Halloween. It's so windy that that doesn't matter. There's a Halloween decoration that I had to get up and remove in the middle of the night. Bahm, but um oh, here here's the way playing. How windy it is my neighbors wheelbarrow which I don't know exactly where he stores it on his property, but it was at least a hundred yards from his house. It hit the wheel barrel had just been blown across the landscape. This is it's pretty windy. I got two windy things I want to tell so, for the first time ever, my my beloved sister in law say something. I need a viro is here. Thank you, Steve be my favorite. Uh probably I like you more n I like you more than my brother, Like if I had to choose the tree, my brother and my sister in law. You have two brothers and two sisters in laws, and I'm talking about this one, this one in particular. I'm just trying to I'm just trying to lay it on Thick that when he is married to yeah one, he's married to my brother Matt, but like or more than him, which supposed to an awkward position because originally, I don't know, I never told you this. I was originally not skeptical of you. But but I was sussing you out, Oh, because I care about my brother a great deal and so you know I love him to death. Would you find out in your sussing, oh, that I liked you? But initially right initially, I like, I wouldn't take him, saying like, oh, you know, I whatever have a girl Friendily might get married. I don't take that. Is I wouldn't take that. It's like, oh gosh, can't wait to meet this wonderful person. My head would go, what's wrong? Went like like, um, I got her number. Now I'm gonna find out skepticism. He's like, do them wrong? I don't know, just because injured skeptical, Like I was skeptical. But then now you know you really wanted me over, Like I love you so much, so so kind, I love you so much. You do. You such a great job at being a brother. You do a great job being my brother's wife. But I'll point out, you guys don't live together. It's a secret. Yeah, you guys live long happy marriage. You guys live nine hours apart. Yes, it's just like a commune. It's like a long it with no we have to immediate plans to remedy the situation. Not even looking at it as something that should be remedied. Absolutely not. Uh do when we get a little older, like someday you haven't ruled remedy makes it sound like there's like it's a problem and there's something wrong and so yeah, So I was trying to say, it's like it's not like a thing that they're like stuck in and wish they weren't. You just don't live together. Just don't live together. I think a lot of people it probably wish. Yeah, when we need assisted living, help assist each other, and we might as well just have one person do it. It's cheaper. Well, you just start to love each other so much that you can't be that far apart anymore. You need more time together. We got a lot of love right now. I don't know. I wanta tell you my windy story though this is very windy. I thought your brother's house was going to blow away. Well, that's why, that's what I'm getting it. I'm trying to just this is a prolonged set up for a story about windy nous. The first time I took my wife two my brother's house a mile city. Um, she'd never been a mile city, and I think she's just had like she's pregnant. We had one baby and she's pregning with another baby. Either way, I take her there and I don't know what and I didn't know, but there's like a there's there's a tornado coming. But I didn't know there's a tornado coming. So we get to Mile City and we're gonna go fishing, and our friend d was there as well, and so Katie's like, well, I was gonna hang out and catch up with Dan and we'll hang out in the house and you guys all go fishing. So we started down the road to go fishing, and also like a tornado hits and uh blows trees, Like we couldn't even get anywhere down. We couldn't get down the road because like cotton woods are blown down the road. A chunk of Matt's roof blows off his house. WHOA. She's like huddled in the door frame and and she's like never been to this talent her life. She's only been here like thirty minutes, and she's thinking, my god, displaces Windy. You know. Unbeknownst to any of us, it was like and his door frames probably aren't the sturdiest of door frames. No, it's like the kind of house that they haul in on. It's the kind of house they hauling in on a trailer. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, uh yeah. She's like, no, one, I can't picture how windy it is here. But I was like arrived during a tornado. Um yesterday we I was out with my wife and kids and we ran um ran aground. Two days ago, ran our jetboat aground. And I blame the wind for this because like when you're you can run a jetboat and inches of water, you know, but you kind of rely when you're picking your course. You kind of rely on the way the water looks. You're looking for deep water shallow water. And the wind was so severe. Two things. The wind was so severe that it interrupted the surface activity on the river and made everything look different because the wind's blown up current and made and made it so you couldn't like read the river right. And I was trying to buy a fishing license for my wife, and I was convinced that she already had one. She was convinced she didn't have one. So we're on the phone. I'm trying to drive the boat down a very shallow river and be on the phone like, no, hit that button. No, it's your birthday, you know, I know you go. And also just dead, I mean like ran aground but nobody got thrown. No one got thrown. That's good. It was kind of like bamn. Yeah, everybody had to get out dragging the boat around. It was just a gravel bar. Yeah, it ran up on a gravel bar. Scared the hell out everybody. It was bad. And then um, yeah, it's like generally horrible fishing. A dude. A dude gave us a walleye, so we want up with two because the guy gave us one. So dude had caught one and didn't want to clean it, gave us that wall and then we caught our own and went home with two walleye. That's it. It's a very windy day. Camped out for the night. Big Doings, also joined by Casey Snyder. Thank you thanks for having me spelled real weird. Hey, you know it's the American version of a German name, so s and I that strong German I rather than a y, which I think is Dutch technically. Yeah, and you're you're currently to give people your tell people what you're up to. So I am in the state legislature back home in Utah. So I am from Cash Valley represent the fifth District, the Fighting Five as we like to call it, a state legislature and uh last session, this last spring session, we ran a bill to mend our state constitution to add the right to hunting fish in our state and joined a bunch of states, including this one, and UH make sure that that right, that opportunity is always protected in Utah. So that's what I'm here to talk to you about today. Yeah, and you're super involved in one year an egg. Yep, we have we we farm, we ranch, we we kind of dabble in everything. I am a man of many hats, I would say, including that John Deer when you got on right now, absolutely all the way, green, all the way. But yeah, so we we farm and ranch and then um in the legislature and also working on a PhD and fire forestry and fire to State University. That's sort of one of those ongoing things. But that dovetails in with In the summertime, we have a local department and I usually will go out for a couple of months, a couple of weeks and UH fight fire including this summer. So there's what's your what are you looking at? So we're looking at basically better ways to predict fire in our state. So I'm working on a fire atlas which would say, hey, when does this type of vegetation burn? How often and how big do the fires usually go? So basic baseline data stuff, and then we're going to look at some other topics relative to management to private lands in the state of Utah burn more often than federal lands are bigger, those types of just just basic questions. Let's see what's going on down there on a longer scale. So we'll see. It's one of those we're five years in. We'll hopefully one day they'll call me doctor, but we'll see. So, just just to recap, you're in your like in your state legislature, legislature yep. And you guys are in farming. You help operate a family ranch and you fight fires. Summertimes are busy at my house, and you're like enrolled in an academic program yep. Ye. If you don't sleep, you can get a lot done. I'll just say it. Just stay up a lot. You know, caffeine, you know what. Surprised and jealous Steve A. Little bit man. Uh yeah, I do. I would keep you because with with that array, if something's not interesting that day, just do something, Just work on a different thing. Yeah yeah, And I could tell people what I am that day rather than you know. Uh so maybe today I'll be the firefighter and tomorrow I'll be the farmer. You know. Also keeping it keeping it light, keep it flexible. You know what's surprised me recently about the fires. Um. I want to point out a commonality between two and or two guests here. My sister in law wanted to there's a lot of differences and a lot of commonalities that I want to point out. You guys both are in livestock in some respects, Like you guys have a large horse heard whine I wanted to lives on UM lives on a guess ranch over Missoula, And you guys keep a shipload of horses. Yes, And so I was. I was talking to Casey earlier. I was curious about his crazy management and and you guys are in the cattle business. UM, and you guys both like our fire obsessed because it could come into like wipe out, because it could come wipe the program out. Yeah, I think obsessed as I'll take that as a compliment. We'll say that's a good thing. Are meant is a good thing? Oh, it's a courage man, like I learned. The thing that I didn't know recently is we had a big fire right here and we had friends lose their homes and stuff. And for a minute we were kind of on stand by and see if we had to evacuate, and it was close to a hiking trail, and I'm running around telling everybody, just no way that someone flicked a cigarette. That's there was no weather that I learned that it a lightning strike confessed or in the ground or in a tree. It was weeks, wasn't it. They think that it was a lightning strike from weeks earlier. Like, how the hell does that happen? We've had that happened on our place with burning in the fall and in the winter and then it just goes to the duff and goes to the roots and then blows up in March April with spring wind like burning brush and suddenly there's instant flame and burning. I mean, Casey knows this. Yeah, it happens all the time. You can have fires at the last all winter under under the snow, wake up in the spring out there it is again really because this is like in plain sight, man, that it must have just been living in this tree and then erupted out of the ground. One time I might have talked about this for but I can't remember. But one time we were camping hunting elk and we started a fire and it was that like on a ridge top with a lot of white bark pine, there's that deep deep duff, you know, and you'd like dig down that ship you never quite hit like mineral soil, but you try to whatever, make a fire. And we made a fire, put it out, like thoroughly put it out, I thought. A couple of days later, still up hunting, I'm like, that's so weird that there's some dudes camped and that weird ass spot where we are camped because it's not like a camp spot, because I see smoke rising up, and I'm watching the smoke and like become more aware of the smoke and more turning around in my head, like what are the odds of two people would camp there and make a fire and eventually wander up there and sure enough, man, it had burned down in the pine Duff and popped up ten ft away, and then we had to go in there and just excavate the whole. We had to take like an evening off hunting and excavate the whole damn area, trying to put all of our fires out. Yeah, you know some of that stuff. I was on a fire, the Rice Ridge fire over in Seeley Lake three or four years ago, and we had I don't know, six pumps in series that we're just running and you'd wake up in the morning and you'd spray water on it pretty much all day and go home. Next morning you'd come up and it'd be smoldering again. That Duff's. Once it's got heat, and especially some of this country, it it'll go a long time. So you know, maybe that fire is still burning. Maybe there have you been up there lately to check to see if that campfires all the ways, It has been about twenty years, so I hope, I hope by now it's all well. We had another we had another one that similar thing. It wasn't the snow and it's tunneled away from us. And then the reason you can see it is it got like steamy over in other areas where the fire traveled underground through the Duff and then started melting up patches of snow too combust. I've learned a lot of lessons since then. Uh, is this your first term doing the state. I'm coming out of my first term running for my second. So you got a win coming up here, you know, the fingers crossed. We'll see how it goes. And then how did it come to be? Like, tell people what the program you're involved in or the bill you're trying to do with the right to hunt and fish? Like, what's that all about? So you know, if I'm not doing everything else, I guess you should say I'm hunting and fishing, and that is a big part of who I am. And you know, we were We've been going back and forth on setting this up. I was up at Elk camp all last week and happy not to respond to any emails or phone calls. Now, did you get a note? I did you a little five by six bulls? Utah, It is a lot easier to get them with your rifle. We'll just say that. But it's it's dark timber up there, you know, in public land hunt. So it was I'm happy to have that, you know, that done, But that that's something I've grown up and done my whole life, and um when I I'm currently the head of us what's called the Hunting and Fish and Caucus in our state legislature, and we've sort of been looking at how do we preserve this legacy, this opportunity into the future. We don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring. We don't know what kind of pressures are going to be on our sport going forward. So if we could codify now when support is high for these types of activities, for hunting and fishing, we could put that in our constitution. Maybe down the road, if perceptions change or public opinion shifts, there's at least a higher threshold before those sort of activities could be eliminated or curtailed. So that was sort of the thinking behind things. But you know, it's common for people to say that, Um, I don't. People always say it's a privilege. It's like a part of like what they teach and hunter safety and stuff. But I think that's the balance, Right, it's a a right. I think the privilege comes in it can be revoked. Right, you don't follow the rules, you're not up to two current statute and doing things the right way. Yeah, you can, that can be eliminated. But at a fundamental level, that fundamental right level, the opportunity to followed a law and to harvest something with your own hands. That's what we're trying to protect. Everything else is subject to statute right and to limitation by the Division Wildlife Resources or our state legislature. But to be always guaranteed that if you're following the law, you can go hunt or fish for something in our state. That's that was the genesis and the impetus behind the whole thing. How many states have the protection I believe right now, and you know some of this goes back, uh clear back into the founding. So there are states back east, I believe it's Connecticut if I remember right, or Vermont, um, they're you know, right as they're putting their state constitution together, boom, it was in there the right to hunt and fish. And so we're we're kind of keeping up a lot of the states around us have it. You guys have it here Idaho, even California has the right to fish. Now they've you know, really they didn't get the they parsed it out, you know, so and seriously that's dead serious, and that's maybe some of the concern that we had when we ran it. You know, like they're already starting to say, maybe this isn't they were in the right to fish, You have a right to fish, but you don't have a right to hunt in California. So you know, so bow fishing is that in that gray area, right, Like, I don't know how that all works, so anyway, but yeah, so we're just you know, following great ideas and hopefully adding it to our state constitution. Voters have to obviously adopt it, so it has to be simple majority, simple majority. State legislature has to support it with two thirds. So it passed in the House and Senate in our legislature with a two thirds majority, and now it'll go to the people and it just has to you know, plus one. Okay, I got a whole bunch of questions. But oh so, why it didn't pass unanimously? No, what was the argument against passing it so that it was unnecessary? Like what? Yes, yeah, I mean fundamentally, it's like, well, of course that's always going to be something. Why we don't need to elevate it to the level of a constitutional amendment? And you know, I sort of make the argument that you do, and and history and our state would prove so. Um. I don't know if you've talked about it here, but in Colorado right now, there's obviously a there is a proposition to add wolves, to reintroduce wolves going on in the state of Colorado, which has been made a moot point because they've since then, well they've been haggling over this. The wolves just showed up on their own. Yeah, so they're there now. But see, in our state, you can't buy a proposition without a two thirds majority make decisions relative to wildlife. So we passed a constitutional amendment that set that threshold. This is in the early two thousands. And when that ran through, everyone's like, well, this is crazy. Who would you who even cares? Right? Why would you want this to happen? And it was sort of this argument that it was unnecessary. You fast forward twenty years and you look across the state line and you're like, huh, well, let's they're kind of doing that now. You mean that that people are putting like a very simple wildlife management to decision that would normally be made by agencies appointed to make those kind of decisions. They're putting it like to a simple Gayer nay vote, taken science out of it, and and totally basing wildlife management on public opinion. And that was again sort of seen as unnecessary. And so you look at this amendment with that as context, and you can say, you know, it's nice just to have this as a safeguard when you've got public opinion on your side, and it's nice to be able to guarantee in our state that right to hunting fish because the majority of our population supports it. Now, we don't know where it will be ten thirty years from now. Has there any state ever tried to run one of these and lost? I think they have. Yeah, But I believe that if we've all the states where it's past with clear majorities, there's there hasn't been any problems. And right now there there hasn't been any big pushback. All the major hook and bullet groups in our state are supporting us right now, and there's not any opposition to things. So I'm hoping we're gonna you know, smooth sale and everything will be good. But you know, I don't know, there's not there's no organized opposition to right to hunting fish. No, And again any of the any of the concern comes down to why do we need to do this and why are we doing now? And that's you know, that's a pretty good argument that that's beautible. So see how it goes. I'm optimistic we're gonna get it passed through and uh and I'm you know, one of those people that's going to benefit from it. So can you can you try to identify a like what would be a thing that this could prevent from happening, Like, like what would be an issue if you look at other states or some kind of other rule that's come down, what would be something that this would be beneficial in protecting from. So one of the provisions is that's added to there. So we sort of put a box around this. Right, we say subject to state rules and a few other things. But one of the things that we we guarantee in this is that hunting and fishing will be the primary tool for managing wildlife populations. So if you look in back East in particular, where you've got high density of white tailed deer for example, um, they're basically paying state agencies sometimes at night, sometimes with other means to to eliminate deer because they've got so many. Our amendment says hunting and fishing would do that. So if not only do you have the right to take, but you're saying the North American model is fundamental to this and hunters and anglers are always going to be the primary ones playing a role in how wildlife are managed in our state. So that's, for example, one real specific and nuanced thing that hopefully this will protect against going forward. Why don't you guys roll trapping into that, uh, because we believe that that's covered under the statute. So it's harvest take game, you know, and I think that's covered without sort of the bigger fight that always occurs over that. I I out of odd No, I think if you're if you're harvesting wildlife, it's covered, right, And there's always that public perception. Public opinion drives everything. And while I love to trap, that's something I grip doing mostly bobcats and beavers, there is a pretty strong anti sentiment with that. So if you can cover that and preserve that right with basically harvest, why have the fight. I mean, there's enough fighting in politics as it is, So if we can we can achieve the same objective without sticking into somebody's eye. Let's do that calling it out now, would it prevent Let's just say, if you're following in the tracks of California, like they've lost the right or ability to use hounds, right, Yeah, So when it's when something like that comes up, when they're like, well you can still hunt, but you can't do it this way anymore. How does that work? You know, I'm I'm that's still that honestly, that discretion still applies. Like, so we're not eliminating the divisions making rules and regulations. That's it's all subject to that. But what it would say is maybe you can't use dogs or you know, there's already rules over dogs or bait or whatever on different bears and lions. But the ability, it would what it would guarantee is that you could still harvest bear right as long as populations are such and you meet objectives and all those types of things. So it's that's the root of it that there will always be that debate, and I think it's necessary, imprudent right about means and methods. I think that's a natural part of of our sport. And I think that has to be part of it. But what we're trying to do is is prevent it from being eliminated wholly as an option, which is that that's what people argue when they argue the death by a thousand cuts. Yeah thing, I mean, everybody likes to poke fun at California when it comes to death by a thousands because it's easy, right, it's it is easy to poke fun at calf. Yeah. I had a guy, like a very high ranking it's a national hobby to pull fund of California that's going. But yeah, I had a very high ranking person in California's Wildlife department predict to me. And he made this prediction a long time ago, years ago. He predicted me. He said, uh, we will lose bow hunting next through referendum. And he put it that he said, I think in twenty five years it'll all be gone. M h. If you look at in California, they did like method to take stuff on mountain lions, okay, but eventually just got rid of mountain lion any mountain lion harvest at all by hunters. It's all done now by it's all done on by the state. I mean, there's still there's still under damage permits killing several hundred of a year. They're still killing the same amount. The state and agents are killing about as many as hunters used to, but they removed methods before eventually getting round to the thing in trapping, like got rid of trapping and then went to a thing to be that you can't sell for mhm. So what I'd be more interested in is like a piece of protection um or. I wish that that the protections you could measure more against the death by a thousand cuts thing. H One frustration I have with conservation groups, especially once a frustration I have with conservation groups to focus on um habitat issues UH, which are very important access issues, is they oftentimes don't like to get embroiled in the method of take arguments. So a couple of years ago, there was a thing in this state that was talk about like death by thousand cuts, like the level of specificity. It was no trapping, not no trapping, but no trapping on public land mhmm. To try to narrow it down to like a little thing that you think you could get They're like, what's the what's something we could get away with? They got clappered they got clapped, didn't pass it, but it was like so fine tuned to try to make some progress towards getting rid of hunting, trapping whatever. In Maine, it was there's a thing a couple of years ago in Maine, I think it was getting rid of bait for bears, getting rid of hounds for bears, and people would point out, well, that's the only way people like in in thick flat country, that's the only way people get bears. So you're effectively ending nine of the bear harvest. But you're not coming out and saying that you're trying to make it an issue about dogs and bait. But we see what you're really driving after. So it would be cool if to protect if you if we can make protections that helped also prevent the like just whittling away at people's stuff. I've never heard in California that the thing has gone anywhere to like band bowl hunting. But this guy had it laid out like how it would be approached, how it would be one well, and I think that goes to the broader point. As hunters and anglers, we've got to be involved, right, Like, there's at my level, there is literally only so much I can do, and we've I think we've done that and sort of set the table and set a pretty high threshold instead of pretty strong burden of proof. But if you if you like to hunting fish and you're not involved in the political process, it's gonna be involved for you without you. And so that's sort of I think, I know we're kind of coming off topic a little bit here, but if if you appreciate these opportunities, you better support them the whole way, and that's through initiatives, that's the ballot box. Heck, if you like to hunting fish, maybe you ought to even run for office. You know what ruins hunting and fishing for me? Political service? Yeah, it's it's not getting ready for the legislative session in January really screws up my duck hunt. I'm not gonna lie, but you know, I believe in this stuff and it's important to me, and I'm willing to step up. And I think is as folks like to do that, we've got to be willing to make that sacrifice on the front end so that this legacy and this heritage is there for our kids. When the state's go to do the right to hunt fishing thing. Is there like a is there like a plan? Like it's a little package they send you to do it in your own state. I mean, how did it come to be that that that came on your radar? Well, so, actually I had a buddy that um had done some research work as part of a master's degree, was just sort of compiling data. He's like, hey, we don't have one of these. This ought to be a good thing, you know. And then I started reaching out to the various conservation groups and said, hey, what do you think about this? And know everybody jumped up and down. You you want to hear a really interesting committee hearing on politics is largely boring unless somebody says something stupid. I think that's sort of the norm. But in our legislature and the committee where this bill was presented, when we put this forth, we had like half the room in tears. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my whole political career. The chairman is crying saying I'm going to protect this opportunity for my daughter, like this is amazing, for real tears. Like I'm like I'm sitting there presenting on my bill and thinking all I think I got pretty strong support in here because he's crying, and he's crying, and everybody's telling stories about the bull that came off the mountain, you know, and their daughter's first deer and those types of things. So, uh, you know that it was a good idea that obviously had a lot of support and a lot of political and emotional support, and we've run the whole way with it. So has have you gotten any well articulated, um, like, any well articulated opposition to it? No? Now, I mean there there are opinions out there, and I would say that the um when folks are saying is this really necessary? I mean, I they use good words and correct grammar, so I think you could classify it as well articulated. I just don't think it's compelling, and that maybe that's the difference. So I think we're gonna be okay, you know, fingers crossed, hopefully the voters in the state of util make the right choice. Are those folks. Are those opinions coming from people like our groups like Peter or is it just random people that are actually saying, oh really, why why? Now? I think it's more random. Yeah, you know, even um, some of our large groups made society and and Peter like you mentioned that maybe would sort of be a catalyst for opposition. They they've largely said no, it's you know, not a big deal, so at least publicly, And that's how they're behaving so far. And you know, our ballots are coming out this week and back home, I'm assuming that you guys are getting yours here too for mail and so and oh man, uh, you know, so we're only what a couple of weeks a couple three weeks before the election, So I think, you know, I think we're going to be okay, but you never know. So well, that's why I am so happy to be here today, and hopefully all the listeners in Utah will be convinced by the compelling argument that I have made on this podcast. Well yeah, I think you probably we're gonna lose it, but now you're gonna win. We'll shocking up to media. R. What exactly does it say? It's I mean, I can't gurgitate it verbatim because it's fairly long, but it's basically the right to hunt fish will be preserved subject to da da da da da da dada. And when you go into when you normally going to do a referendum thing like I'm always guilty of. I'm actually gonna touch on this later because I have to talk about my sister in law way needed more. But um, I'm guilty of. As I get down to the to the tail end of my ballot, I'm finding out about the things I wasn't aware of, Like I'm like home at what I have that feeling a lot. It'll be like, uh, what do they call? Uh like some new like very complex like tobacco taxation issue? Right, that's how can there be twenty levies that I have to think about right now? Yeah? And I'm torn between m I always get torn between. Um. I could sit it out because which is really the responsible thing to do because I have no idea what it is talking about. Or I could try to like read real quick and make like a snap judgment in order to weigh in. But I feel like I'm just not educated on the issue. And then they have these ballot supplements, right, and the each side gets to like agree on a pro con and it's sort of like everybody agrees that it's a fair synopsis of the issue. What did you guys have to go through that process, like what's the what's the what's the the why not in the ballot supplement? Yeah, so maybe we're not as cordial back home, Like I I got to present my opinion, they got to present theirs, but we didn't like compare notes and song. But they're always very I feel that they're um, they're very I should say that they're very measured. Like it seems like someone is in there because you wouldn't be able to be in there, like you know those little flyers you get for candidates. He loves China and hates America, right, like that wouldn't be in that wouldn't be in the They would find another way to articulate it. You know. He hates babies. Yeah, no, I we have that same thing, you know. And I do need to say I am grateful that you didn't have like a third method, which is like any menimighty mole. So that's you know, that means you are and I might be killed. I might, but the last time I chose c H. I don't want to be predictable. Yeah you know, so I we'll just pretend that you're you know, A and B or your only options. But um, we do have that as a smidget. But I'm I'm hoping, like before this podcast, you probably didn't know anything about this hunt right and hunting fish in the state of Utah. But what what does your heart tell you? You know what, what do you believe? And I'm hoping that there's that little moment in time in the in the ballot box or at the kitchen table when you're filling your circles there it's just a feel good, you know what, boom, and we're gonna go with that. That's my hope. There is going to be obviously this and some other sort of orchestrated like here's get out the vote and let's make sure we're supporting this, But at a fundamental level in my state, that's something I think we still cherish, that heritage, that opportunity. So I think that's going to pick up people, you know, or we roll the dice with a P or C. So anyway, well, we'll see how it goes. Do you are are you a career politician? Were you gonna say something? I was just gonna so the language is really clear on your ballot right, what's is there a number associated with us? Like we need to advertise this gosh, I think we're g so like we're down to the whole yeah, yeah, yeah, yea yeah. So it's like, you know, I shot for a and I didn't get it, but there's four or five on the ballot um otherwise um, But yeah, I I before a sleepy voter or for Steve Um cruising through to the bottom of his ballot. The language is very clear. This is the right hunting fish boom and you'll see that. Hunt it down, hunt it down, and and love America and the great State of Utah and support that amendment. That's kind of what we're going for. What else throws me on the ballots is when you get down to the part where you're like voting for a judge but it doesn't seem as anyone running against him. I'm always torn too, because I'm like, there there's anybody running against them. You might as will make them feel good and write there named out see. But here's here's the thing. At that point, it you're not responsible like all those people who were who could have ran for judge and didn't. That's where the blame is. So you just go with what you've got before you that that whole who's screwed up? Isn't you in the ballot box that point, it's whoever you know didn't step up and run, or or maybe it really is just a good judge. Don't don't, don't harbor any guilt on that. That's all I'm trying to say. But he's so just like, has such an impeccable career he or she that there's just no one could even remotely challenge. Yeah, that one, that one's not on you just go with it. Just go with it. Do you do you imagine you're gonna become a career politician? Oh, man, I hope not. Everybody. Don't do the false modesty, false bashful ship. Every politician says that. I'll tell you one that didn't, though. I think I remember we had Wyoming's former governor we talked about a minute ago. Matt Meat was on the show once and he was turning out as governor and I was like, so, what are you gonna do next? He's like nothing, I'm done doing politics. And I'm like, oh, come on, this is like a it'll be like a week and you'll be But I think he actually meant it like he quit. He's done, unless he pops up. But I mean I was, like I thought it was he was doing the old like you know, act like keeping a secret or whatever. But it seems like he just full um stop, he's done. That's my dream, you know. I want my if if my place could be fully productive in my ranch running, that's what I want at the end of all this. Like, so my wife and I bought our place. It's not inherited. We didn't come we both grew up in it, but bought our own place. Uh, that to me is more important, you know. And I've got a couple of people off man, oh man, it's it's Uh. I think I like to gamble, but I don't really gamble is not really legal. It's not legal in the state of Utah. So I think farming sort of supplements that itch. Uh. But yeah, so that that's for me, the big thing, you know, I'm happy to serve. I actually before I ran for office, I I made the poor life decisions of working as a staffer in politics. So I worked in d C for a little while and when this seat that I currently hold came open, it was like, well, I think I could help out. I kind of have been through this mess before maybe I can do a few things, but I you know, I'd like to do a few terms and then if there's something else whatever, But my preference would be farming, hunting, and fishing, because this really screws up with the things that I like to do. How many, how many of how many of you are there? How many people around the state in what the state? So like, there's only one, Casey Snyder, if that's what you're asking, there's only one. Only put in national terms real quick first, since the people understand or help me and the listener to understand, like we all know that, you know, we have whatever three hundred and sixty four whatever the hell it is. Congress congressman congresswomen in washingtond c. Represent the country, and we have a hundred senators to from each state. You could have a state like all states get to a lot of states. You might only have one representative, or the state might like like you have twenty depending on population and land mass, I think, But then you have your state version, right, and it's a way different job. It's way better. I can go home at night and I only have to do this for a couple of months. Yeah, And but I didn't realize it's it's like it's not quite but like it's almost sort of a voluntary Yeah, like you guys aren't like breaking it in. I only get paid January, February and part of March when I'm there, and so everything else is sort of on my my dime. Uh. And even then when you're down there, it's like, you know, I probably can stay home and make more money. But yeah, it's kind of a pure form of politics the state the to serve at the state level. But but I actually think that's a good thing, you know, so so it puts the it changes the incentives. Right, So maybe in d C. If if I'm gonna go make a hundred fifty k, heck, y'all'll run for Congress, right or I'll be a senator. And you don't see what happens in the legislature where in our capital when you're making like ten or twelve thousand dollars a year and you got to do this, I bet this takes at least thirty hours a week for me, Like you're gonna do it because you legitimately feel like it's service, you know, like I'm not getting rich and and frankly, I doubt I'm going anywhere after this. So it's it's literally a chance for me to go and say, hey, neighbors, what's important to you? How can I how can I impact this in a positive way? You know? And and I think that trickles down like how much look at a county commissioner, look at a mayor, look at a city councilperson, right like those you're looking at a county commissioner. And see that's what I'm saying, Like, that's that service, right like and and and and proof of that is? What? What? What's your incentive at the end of this. No, it's like I feel like I can make a positive impact on my community. I'm gonna step up and do my time. Uh. At the end of this, nobody's gonna know my name. I I call down the city offices. I represent about seven towns in my little valley, how many about thand decent size. But I'll call the city of Hey and they all love me, I'm sure. Uh. But see, I'll call the city office and I'll say, Hey, this is Casey Snyder. I'd like to rent a room for the afternoon to have a town hall or you know, just talk to some people and they'll be like, Okay, who are you and that's you know, that's a that is perfect. I love that because then it's like, oh yeah, yeah, you know what, I'm nobody, but can I borrow the room for the night. So do you get um, do you get people in your constituency or super piste at the all time? Um? Well, there are people. Clearly they're not a majority because I'm still here right but but yeah, I I I actually have a file um in my inbox. Were like, people are super creative when they they're insulting you, like some people, it's it is amazing. I'm like, gosh, I wish I was that smart when I was mad. I file it away and I read it back to myself, you know, like I'm like, gosh that whenever I'm really pissed at somebody, I'm gonna use this. I'm gonna use email a and all the phrases that were thrown at me. That's that's so. Yeah. Yeah, I I tork a few people off shore. I think it's part of the deal. And you get you get dragged into stuff um that you probably don't have any background in though. Uh yeah, you know, I think there's look, I I know where my lane is. Like if you ask me about cows or hunt and fishing or you know, natural resources generally, yeah, I think I can articulate an answer, but you know, you put me on some of these social issues and like urban housing, it's like, uh, I live on a farm. Like how am I supposed to know what good state policy is for high density housing? You know? So, yeah that happens. What are you do in those cases? You know, I call an expert, you know what? What Like you find a constituent who's got background in it. You know, you you do your research and you hope you make an educated and informed decision when it's your time to vote. The one thing with the legislature or in city government or county government, any form is like you gotta vote like it's yes or no on this and and you may not be all the way prepared, but you know you can't chicken out like put up or shut up kind of a deal. You're there? Yeah, Well, everybody other people in an exact same situation. You could have someone in your state, someone coming out of a maybe has a background in urban development and the weighing and on egg issues, and no one would no one like thinks the question right? Well, you know, I think all of us have a good sense for Uh well, I'm I grew up in agriculture, so I have a master's degree in bol I don't know if I can say it on the podcast. Um so yeah, but I think everybody kind of knows, right, Like if you're an expert matter and you you get somebody from downtown telling you how to you know, commenting on an agg bill, like somebody with a John Deer hat might step up and say, all right, folks, let's let's tell it taste straight. And you know, the same thing happens on my end if I'm totally out left field on something I have no business or no idea waiting into like somebody's gonna call you out. And so that's the balance, like make informed decision, make come up, do your homework, be educated on an issue. But no, I'll just make crap up Like that's that's poor policy. Do you think there's any um, what do you think would happen if someone try to do a right to hunt and fish bill for the US man? I don't know. Listen, I bet I can't picture if it would. I bet it wouldn't pass. You know what the I don't know. The most wonderful thing about being in the state legislature is I don't really care what happens in DC, you know, like that world is so screwed up an upside down right now, Like I don't uh, I don't know. You know what's going to pass. So the right to hunting fish in the state of Utah, that's what's going to happen there coming up in a few days, thirty days whatever, thirty four days just right around the corner. I had this guy telling us one time, there's this this historian, Um, I'm friends with the studies like demographics and perceptions of hunting and the way hunting gets covered in media and newspapers and things, and and he was explaining to me that depending on how you word it, Okay, you can word it approval of hunting and fishing two Americans in a way that there's overwhelm laming approval m. So basically to the effect of if you go to Americans and you say, um, do you support like regulated hunting and fishing and formed by you know, biological input about wherever? Okay, and really sup it up lay the whole thing out. Support of hunting actually is higher now than it wasn't the eighties. The minute you put any particular to it, it starts to fall apart. Well, any like any little deep if the minute you add a detail like um, you know whatever, you go like, do you support you know, hunting deer or the boat. Also, it's just like it just goes off like people sort of they're like, yeah, I get it at a high level, I get it, but don't I don't. I don't like the little nitty gritty's. I don't like like things that spell out like what exactly I'm saying I support? Why don't we have this conversation before I ran my memy? You know, like, how do how do I know if through the eyes of history this is I wrote the right thing down on the belt. We should have talked before I know I went to all that. I think you should have gone crazy crazy strip because in your state yet strike while the iron's high, and like you have a state that has that, Like it's very I would from a distance, I would say it's like very supportive. Yeah, we're red. We're very supportive of hunting and fishing rights, very supportive of gun rights, right, So I would be doing crazy stuff right now to lock it in, and I'd be like, I'd have a trapping bill man. You know, I the legislative session is starting here at the end of January. If you want to talk about anything to move down there and run many what do you guys make? You know, you might want to take a lot of zeros off of that, but you'll, you know, go with that. Uh again, how many state legislator legists? Why can't I say this word where it's a legislator legist. I'm a legislator serving in the legislat churches? Yeah, so how many of us are there? And I think they're hunting for so on that senators and and representative. So I'm I'm just a lowly representative. I'm not a you know, a mighty senator like they across the hall over there. But you know, in your terms up, you just finished your first term. Yep, did anybody challenge you in the first time? So I had an opponent in so I'm a Republican. I had a Democratic opponent. Um, I have another Democratic opponent this fall. Um. The Galhorana gets me last last fall is she's awesome she's a really great lady. She's actually the Democratic nominee for lieutenant governor our ticket. Um, you guys ain't going to smear you guys, you know, and you can't paign for she probably you know, it's a toss up hood on a better job. Clearly we believe a different things. She's a lot nicer than I am, I'm sure, um, but we had a great race. I I won about the vote down there. So we're my little part of the world's very conservative. Um, I have another lady who's running against me this year, and I you know, I'm I'm optimistic will be okay. But either way, I the way I like to do things back home and in Cash Valley where I'm from, is you know, we look, we've got to get along. And I clearly have a set of things I believe in. But I think there's there's good people and good ideas in the whole world and I I I feel like, um, one of the things that I did in my last race. So I don't know if you want to go off on this tangent. It's a little bit of a tangent. No, if it has to do with um. Uh, this is like to Get out the Vote episode. Yeah, let's just yeah, let's go. And it has to do with how part is in politics has rippen the country part. But then someone can point to an area where it's not. That's great, Okay, we'll go with that, where the world's where the whole country is not gonna burn alive. And you know, so one of the things that was really important to me was that it's you know, in the face of what I think is, uh, we should all be embarrassed about where the state of our current national politics are. We should all legitimately be embarrassed. And so when I ran last session, I actually wrote an editorial that basically said this, the person running against me is a great person. And you look at all the stuff that she's done. She's done a fabulous job. She she pushed for some propositions that passed, and they were they were um fundamentally motivated because she lost. It was on healthcare, and she lost her mother to cancer and watched that happen and watched all the money she had to spend. So she was advocating from a real position, and she did a really good job. And we may have differed on the particulars, but she was sincere in her beliefs, and that's what I articulated, and I said, look, we are She's a good person. We just have a different, fundamental different view on some key issues, and that's the difference. And like, why can't we just talk about these differences or or heaven forbid, find ways to weigh through those differences in a way that's going to be beneficial to our to our whole community, you know. And that's I feel like we've stepped up and done that in our little part of the world. I don't believe at a fundamental level politics has to be a zero sum game. I think we let it be that way, and I think we're letting national leaders create this narrative that it's us against them, and I don't think it has to be that way. I think you can literally stand on your principles and say, look, this person, I do not disagree or I do not agree with them on all these issues. There's probably a whole bunch we do, there's probably whole bunch of we don't, but that doesn't change who they are as a person. I think we've got to get past where we're at now. So if you're getting out to vote, or you're supporting a candidate or whatever you're doing. Like, let's in your own neighborhood, in your own way, and you know, county council or whatever you're doing. I let's push that debate. That that's a ground swell I'd like to see is where we start treating each other like Americans, like people and just have debates about issues, not about right now, all we do is have it's about who we are. It's a waste of everybody's time. I have a six year old in a six month old, so little little guys. The thing I've been a little bit struggling um in conversation with my kids is if you're like I might be dismissive about a viewpoint that someone else would hold in conversation and they pick up on it. Uh. I now am oftentimes like when something some issue comes up, I'm oftentimes trying to explain to them, like that person believes what they believe with the same level of passion that like you believe what you believe, Like you have to try to get into this mindset of like when you don't agree with someone, they're coming from something that feels is real to them and it's not and you can't always just have it be that they're dumb and wrong, right, right, And it's a way bigger thing than that. They're like they're dumb and wrong, and they're telling you something that fundamentally they know. They would tell you they know inside note. Yeah, and they thought that they've approached every possible way and have come to this decision. Yeah. Weirdly we got into this most recently around and this was like I almost hesitate to bring this up. I'll fill this out. We don't need to talk about it. We're talking about the nine eleven hijackers to get to like to get into um, if if you had somehow been able to like converse with those individuals, their articulation of what they thought they were doing and what they thought they were trying to accomplish, wouldn't even you wouldn't even be able to approach it, but they would have something that they would tell you that they had arrived at and like the key and even understanding something that's just like an absolute what we would argue is like absolutely evil, absolutely wrong, the antithesis of everything we believe in, everything we stand for. There would still be deep down there some like explanation that that person held, and you're never gonna combat it or understand it without like taking the time to like like to try to at least understand where someone's coming from. If not, it's just like you do, you don't, you wind up with a sort of a superficial understanding of even the people you disagree with, like with me, Like like, for instance, if I'm uh in an engagement with someone who let's say it's someone who opposes the right to hunt and fish, you know, how would I ever be equipped two combat that? If I did never asked like what exactly, I'm like, Oh, they just don't want us to have fun? Right, are you really gonna get anywhere? Well? And I think it's how much easier it is to say you're evil or you're bad. I mean extreme examples aside, let's just that was a horrible example. We'll go into a narrow space about how do you get fishing? Yeah, I want to talk about my example. Oh, man, I know, I want to go deep. I say, it's a horrible example. It's an extreme example. But I think in that case being I like it came up through I don't want to bory with how the subject came up at dinner. This is what's your kids? They because they know about to the site. Well, it's my ten year old, they know. Man, there sounds like they're pretty well informed kids. Well, I mean the older one knows that that was the thing that I mean at this point, like people know that that happened one day. And uh, it's an extreme example. But it's like with kids, you sometimes have to have extreme examples. It came up, yeah, and it's it's a lot easier to just say this. You know this this person they disagree with my right to hunting fish. They're they're dumb, they're evil, they're stupid. You know, like how am I cheesier? Is that to say? Then? You know, they have an opinion, and it's probably based on experience or fundamental belief in whatever they believe in. And you know, I mean some of this stuff. Majority rules, right, that's kind of the the are how our systems taken take shape and how it runs anyway, so wins and so can have a strong opinion and they're probably gonna lose to the majority, right, Like that's just that's the sad part of politics. But the other side of that is and how you debate and how you engage, that's the part you can control. You can still advocate strongly for your position, whatever it is, and push for your belief whatever it is, but you don't have to do it at the expense of somebody else's opinions. And that's I think where we should all shift fundamentally as a as a country. But a body day sent me a text exchange he was having with someone from Peter and I'm reading through the tax exchange and it winds up towards the end it takes on this tone of like really we're talking about the same thing, like surprising how much we sort of care about the you know, like that from engagement that would be like okay, now, uh what exactly, like what's the problem right, you know, instead of like not not all the you know, just like a debate. I run it all time, Like when you hear from people, if if we get notes, some people who are just mad, right, they're just mad. Oftentimes even opening up, even creating the feeling that there's a conversation people get, the stress level goes down in correspondence with people, I believe, you know what one of my favorite things to do is so if I get a really let's let's say I get an email that's really is is nasty and mean but not creative, right, so I can't file it away to use later. But it's just I could tell these people are torked off at me. I will find them in a creepy way, right, but like with the Google or whatever, use use the white pages. I will go and find out where they live and I'll just knock on the door and be like, Hi, I'm Casey Snyders. We've actually never met in person before, but we've you know, had correspondence through email. Let me hear your concern and I've had You would be shocked, like the most angry, ardent person through whatever form of communication. When you're there face to face and just being like, tell me what's on your mind, they'll go and and half the time it's like looking down at their feet and like, you know, I was just a little upset and it was late at night, you know, and whatever. But it's just that conversation. It's just talkative people. You figure it out. That stuff does give me hope, man, Yeah, I should that when all this whatever this is, COVID has made it bad too. Everybody's cooped inside going crazy, so your mind runs away with you. Man, I'll talk about it the r day. Is that all I hear about is how we're all going to kill each other and hate each other. But then when I go about my day, I just have like really like positive and like I understand, like how could I still be getting away with having really positive interactions? I feel like I'm doing something wrong. Like I just go through, like I just run into people. I don't know if something due at the boat launched, I'm like, hey, he's like, hey, you want a wall? Yeah? Man, how is that possible? He'll get there, get We didn't even like fight about anything, you know. I think politics is terrible. People are good fundamentally, and I think we'll get there. Let the cameras come off of whatever is happening over there. That's why I say, I don't even care about that. I'll just focus on what I could control back home. Let the cameras come off. I think fundamentally we all like each other, even if we're like really really mad at each other right now, That's what I think. Anyway, we'll see. I could be wrong. I was reading. I can't remember who it was a person in healthcare policy predicting that one COVID ends. I don't know if they're just saying this because we still thinking, but there's gonna be sort of this, uh that, this sort of collective hug and niceness. Let's go with that, man, let's go. I was like, I don't know, but I like it. I like it. You know, we had a little glimmer that back home, so our cases were pretty low, and our county decided to have the County Fair, you know, and it was just we're still going to go forward with it, and in person, yeah, yeah, we still we in Cash County. We still had the fair and the rodeo and everything else. And there was no spike, you know, at the end of it, everything, no changes, no changes science. Yeah, we we didn't let the carneys in, so you know that there was no fairs stuff, so that was a change. But like it was the fair. I love the fair. It felt like I wanted I walked around the fair. I'm like, just the fact that we had the fair, I kind of want to give people a hug, just be like, you know what, it's so good to see. It was like kind of normal, So I think you're I think your health, budd He's right. You know, if if my little fair was any indication about like peace and love because we had a little bit of normalcy, I think let's go with that. Let's say he's gonna be right. I fear that we'll forget how to do it, like how do you do it? Like how do you go like that, We'll forget like how to just go be around people, forget how to enjoy a live concert. Yeah, like like that you'd go into a bar and I'd be like, why is this dude like breathing on me? Or you know, like I don't like I don't even go into places, you know what I mean? Like I don't do like extra stuff. I do the things that I deem kind of necessary, but I don't do um. I don't do a lot of like extra exposure stuff because I don't want to have to go. I don't want to have to have someone call me and tell me I got a lay low for two weeks in my house. That's like what I'm worried about. You'll be all right, You'll be all right. It's like, I mean, you know, the cliches ride a bike, right, like I think it's a lot easier just to be nice than it is to ride a bike. I think you'll be all right. I think you won't. You'll that fist bump will come right back, like, you'll be beyond all right. You'll do it with so much more exubera. It's like if you hadn't rant a bike for two years and you get on and you're like, oh, this is fun. Pedal pedal, pedal, stand up. Yeah, Like it feels so good to have this drunken man spitting into my face. I don't know where you're going when when this COVID thing is over, you might be a different places, alright, So turn our attention now to the I don't know if you realize this is a very bipart Is it a fair because wan It is um uh county commissioner who's a d But that's a county commissioner. So I think different states to you, guys aren't in competition with one another. But think Casey and I have. Yeah, I think our values probably aligned. I would tell I want I want to tell everybody couple things because here's my primary issue with I. I approaches different ways with Wanita is upcoming election one was that I would just tell people, because it's in Missoula County, how many people live in Missoula County. Our census hasn't been done of a hundred nineteen thousand. Maybe it's a sizeable constituency, second largest county in Montana. We're kind of a big deal. Billings and number one, I thought about taking this two different approaches. I was gonna tell people it doesn't matter anything about any detail about wine, it doesn't matter. Just go down the ballot, get to the bottom mid probably mid range. I do know where they're putting it down way low. Go down there, look for Juanita, look for Vero, vote Vero, use alliteration, vote Vero. Go down to the bottom, find Vero, and just check it. Under the assumption that most people who vote in Missoula County aren't getting that far on the ballot. Nothing to gives Missoula. But I just know from my own habits. I often, like I said, I peter her out towards the end, Like you get there, it's like, oh my god, the president, senators, like you're all excited, and then you know a lot of people just kind of leave it off. Right, What do you think of this strategy, so I wanted to do where I just told people to go find Juanita. The details didn't matter, nothing about her mattered. Just find her as a favorite to me, vote vero, check the box. But then I came around and I thought that I wanted to share like greater detail, fantastic one. Eeda lives in I don't know what you call your house, I need to lives where you She lives on the ranch where she was born. That's that I was a month old. My my folks were working on another ranch for a year before they came back to the ranch. But your grandfather lived there and my great grandfather. Okay, so she lives where her great grandfather lived, all right on the county yep Okay, same county. She lives where her great grandfather lived. Her grandfather lives. And you were born on some other ranch but then moved there for a month. And you live in kind of like a like a ca I don't know what the hell? What do you? What do you tell people? You live in my great grandmother's banks, my great grandmother's cabin with a lot of bats. Yeah, not far from Rice Ridge. Where you where you were in City Lake? Wanna is her property, which it's like Wan need his family, like Holy owns the property. But the property where you live, UM is in the black man is your program. It is one of one of the early early block management. My grandfather was was part of of bringing that to the western part of the state. Because I think block management, Yanna, you can check this. I think block management started on the eastern side first in Montana, but came over to the west side. So my my, my grant, we had problems. The story goes, oral tradition goes, we had problems with people cutting our fences, trust passing, shooting horses, what have you driving around causing health you know. Um. And my grandfather decided to take some of that management into his own hands. And so he was running around with his mother's purse gun and his in his glove, like shooting at people he thought were we're trust passing or we're hunting, not how he wanted them to be hunting, which is problematic. So with a how up of a neighbor who is a little more of a statesman, UM and working with our game warden, UM figure out that this is better too involve the public and to have this block management program where people are a little more investing because it's walking only too. So if you're walking in, you're not driving. It's a different type of hunter. I don't hunt or fish. What I mean you don't fish? Oh okay, well I fished with many times. Well I need to when fishing likes to uh dispatch the fish. Yeah, because I don't. I don't want to. I'd rather die quickly. Man. You watch we're gonna go off here. You watch a little perch that's been like frozen for like four hours suddenly come to life and your sink as you're scaling it. Yeah, there's a bad Yeah, not good. She doesn't like if you thought fishing people like fishing. The boat and it's flopping around in her mind would be like if you had a deer flopping around in your car, put it out, put it out of it. You got to put it out. Yeah, you're the mercy killer, undersells her hunting and fishing credentials. I am. I'm constantly reminded that I'm not from a fishing culture as well, from both these two and and and and my nephew reminds me of that because I I don't. I don't have the feel, you know, the hook goes all the way into the fish, like in its guts. Before I decided, before you're aware of this, before you're aware of the fishes presence on the other end of your line, So you're but so yeah, so back to the block management. It was just this really beautiful arrangement where you'd have fish, wildlife and parks and er and game more and do the management of the folks. My grandfather wasn't running around trying to shoot at people. People were respecting the landscape, respecting um the access and uh not tearing fences. And of course there's also some self policing going on too, which was really great because you have other hunters out there. They're watching there are other hunters you know, and make sure everyone's following the rules and so um so we've had a lot of success with our block management program. We don't have to um you know, it's it's open to the public. You don't have to tell us, you don't have to get permission, you don't have to call us or sign up or any of that. It's it's I mean, you have to park with appropriate places, but you don't have to sign you have to sign in. I guess no not, there's no sign in black management just for people to understand black management. It's a horrible name. God bless who ever came up with it, But black manage it's a public access program. It's like one of those names that no one would ever know what you're talking about. Well, you look at like the icon. There's there's a you know, a hunter with a rifle shaking hands with our great icon icon speaks at all the rancher shaking hands at a hunter. But yeah, black manages a public access program. So point being, you live in a place that is that on a black management you, Um, when you got married to my brother, you got married to my brother within sight of the bones of your grandfather intentionally, yes, buried in the family plot. It's not a plot to pasture. But like a pile of rocks, yes, yes, we put a pilot rocks on top of him. Yes, like right there on the property. And oftentimes I know that my wife told me this. You never told me this. But oftentimes, when you have a decision to make, is it true that you go out ship? Yeah, don't talk about this, No, someone just a couple of days ago, is that you know ed Robertson from Mountain Prairie. Anyways, it was asking me the same thing. But yes, I do. Your wife is very observant. I wanted it goes out to visit the bones of her grandfather when she needs to make a decision. Yes, and even when my brothers off hunting on their anniversary, wanted to get dressed in her wedding dress and goes out and sits on the rock where she married my brother by herself. To be fair, his brother's only missed one anniversary this year. This year we've we celebrate, you know, our anniversary, put the dress on, get the same bouquet, some champagne, We take our vows and and friends whoever's around, we stomp out to our wedding rock and you know, reevaluate our vows and uh, yeah, that's great. And this year COVID and uh it was like goats mount I don't know, some some hunting season issue. So my husband couldn't be there with me, so I was at the rock by myself. I knew it was going to happen. But yeah, yeah, point being I think all that I'm only bring this out like I'm not even to get into um how generous you are and how well, no, now that, but how um you're a wonderful aunt to my kids without any fanfare. Doesn't like kids, kind of lets the kids understand that she doesn't like them, but within that they love her because they know there's no bullshit like that's a mean lady. But I like her because she takes me horsebriding, gives me snacks. I could tell that she's got like a like you know, yeah, there's a threshold there. She's cool about it. I get it. I love her more for it. A wonderful aunt, like I think you're a great aunt. That's that's really kind of you. A thing I'm pointing out all this um, your generosity, compassion. Let me tell you this is my favorite wanting to story. I need to get talking about when you got your car crash is just making you uncomfortable? Well, I'm I'm I'm crashing the guy. Okay, a guy destroys waned his car. He turns out he doesn't even have a driver's license. There has no insurance or something has no insurance. No insurance. I'm on the phone with Juanita being like, well, how are were you going to go about sticking it to him, right, what are you gonna do to go after him to get your money out of him? She has interrupted our call because he's calling her because she had called him to check in on him and make sure he's okay. Yeah, that was I've never been in a car accident before. She took pity on the dude that killed her car. Yeah, but it was super icy Rhodes Highway two hundred, all three of you know what, um, super icy roads, and this pickup truck just slid right into my face. Um it was, yeah, And then she made it her responsibility to pursue to make sure he was all right. I'd never been in a car accident before. I mean, this is my home road, and um yeah, um, I couldn't get out of my car. I had to like crawl it through the windows. And everything's dark. You know. I was worried, you know, it's pitch black. I was worried that, um, someone's gonna hit my car, which is black and very small on a dark highway. And got out of my car, and then I was wondering where I was supposed to go because someone's gonna hit my car. And I was worried that I was gonna get hit again. Um, someone came and pick me up. And then we turned around to go find the guy who hit me because I wanted to make sure that they were okay. And uh the first thing we did was when we saw each other, we gave each other a big hug. And I value that so much, not just because now we're talking and we're in COVID, this is it just happened almost a year ago, but uh yeah. And then he worked up in Seeley Lake. He yeah, and he was telling me he didn't have insurance, and I was like, dude, keep quiet because there's other people around. But we were just so grateful both of us were okay and and uh yeah, and I didn't. I know he had stuff going on and tough gig, and I was, I have insurance, he doesn't, and I'm not. I mean, he's gonna go get insurance. I don't. I don't need to say I can tell you one thing I'm gonna do. Yeah, we we and we we kept in touch, but there was no need to wreck his life and mean, man, he's my neighbor. Like yeah, point being, I think when I just want to implore people, and this is the only this is only of the three hundred how many million people are in America right now, sixties some. I was just gonna say, read at three several hundred million individuals in America, one thirty thousand of them, we'll encounter your name on the ballot. Vote Vara, And I'm not I'm not getting into the I don't even know what the hell the issues are in your county. I don't really care. But I know that, um, in terms of how you conduct your life and the connection you have to the land where you live and your compassion for the landscape and the people around you, I have a feeling, I'm saying this to the voters out there, I have a feeling that you will take your responsibilities seriously and do well by the individuals who put their faith in you to make good decisions. You're gonna make me christ. Yeah. So when you go to vote, go down, and like that's your person. Nothing to say bad about the person running against you, But that is who I want if I was living in that damn county, That's what I wanted from my county commissioner. That's that's well said. And um, I can't I can't disagree with you, and I think it's like what case he was saying earlier, we're talking about our local politics. It's it's not what you hear at the national level, like our our local issues. I mean, this is just this is community members looking out for each other. This is the decisions we make, is to make our community better place to live and raise our kids. I don't even have kids, but I care deeply about all of your kids and kids and yeah that we have here. It sounds so corny, but um, so corny, but cares about kids in the way that going out fishing, she would say, Um, what are these little people supposed to eat all day? No one has considered this something like that. Yeah, that's that's fair. Also, selfishly, I like to eat, and so I was wondering what I was going to be eating too. So yeah, no, it's um. And Casey alluded to this earlier. This is an honor and it's a huge responsibility. Case is not doing this for money. Um, and uh, it is just a it's a it's an honor. And when you really love a place, and I you know, you love Utah and I love Montana and even more Missoula County. The more I learned about it. Um, it's uh, yeah, it's an honor to be asked. So I was appointed and then UM, so now I have to run to finish two get another term. Um and uh yeah, when you feel ready and folks believe in you and like like you've said, UM, yeah, it's it's pretty exciting to take that step. Yeah. I think it's helpful to you to talk about right now, just to have a couple I wanted to have a couple of people in um who have issues, but just in some way help bring up the idea that like the people involved in politics and like when you go to vote that um, thankfully, there's just it's individual like it's individual Americans. Uh, for the most part, I would venture to guess individual Americans who are hoping to like do a good job. Absolutely absolutely yep. So on November three, whatever day after the election, you can do it right now, and when are in flames, when our cities are in flames, we'll look back on this conversation today and try to remember there there are some there's good folks out there working for us, and I think it's important to remember that. And again, it's it's it's local like forget about the national noise and and remember the yeah the action rubber meets the road locally and county commissioner. Honestly, I don't think it really matters what party were from. I mean, it's we deal with such a broad range and whether it's someone complaining about neighbors dogs versus like our you know, what's the correct pavement recipe, um to to our budget? You know, Um, it's a it's a broad broad range. Yeah. I follow along on Instagram. It seems like when you post some stuff about being a commissioner, you're always like off doing like things that you probably never thought you'd be learning about. Right, But workings of a county it's fantastic and and it's weirdly like the ranch. You know. It's like the ranch, you know, it's this amazing place. Your ranch probably the same thing. It's like there's never enough you know, JB. Weld and duct tape and bailing twine to like hold the place together. But somehow it works. And Missoula County it's amazing staff and amazing engage citizens who who really care, and um that's what that's what makes it special. Um, So I'm I'm man and we've got some crazy challenges to deal with because we're a large county in a complicated county. Um and yeah, we have urban Missoula, which is very different from a largely like rural the rest of the county. I mean you spent time up and see the lakes. Yeah, it's um, there's some tension there. And but that's why I yeah, I think that this particular commission of which I'm part of, I think we represent that tension well in in a in a positive way. Um and uh yeah, I think we can demonstrate some can do and even a little joy, which isn't a word you hear and politics at all. Well, I wanna um again, thank you guys both for coming on. I wanted to zero Missoula County Commission. This is your first up as you got appointed. Now you gotta go win. Yeah, this wasn't on my radar at all. I mean, Casey, you've been you've been in the scene for a while. This was this came out of left field for me. It makes a series of poor decisions and then you end up with a bad opportunity and oh yeah you gonna are you gonna be governor? No? No, no, I like where I live. Yeah, that's right. At a certain point, you gotta go somewhere. Yeah, if you won't move to live with my brother, I'd be dismayed to become a politician. I was like, well, that's better than my brother. And Casey Snyder, who's up for re election. Is the a term limit where you're at tell people your district it's House District five, Cash Valley, cash Valley from the Mountain Man era cash. Absolutely, yeah. Jim Bridger loved it. And I live in Paradise, which is aptly named you know, so so you can do two boats here because you can find Casey Snyder fifth district, so all five you or thirty thousand fighting five and that and that spread out community. And then also in Utah, go find your right to hunting fish thing and vote. It's yes, correct, correct, Yes, you want yes, you want to be able to hunt and fish. And if you're in one of the majority. The majority of states doesn't have such protections. So I hope that other people will be inspired to um with their free time, get that rolling in the other states, and I look forward to a national version. There's a movement starting right here right now. I can feel it. Right to hunt, fishing trap right right, and run hound dogs right. What was the other things, Yeah, archery, hunting bears, bait bears, chase lions. All right, Thanks guys, I appreciate you coming out. This is the bipartisant get out vote issue. We've introduced you to a Democrat, we've introduced you to Republican. If it wasn't for COVID, I'd make you guys hug. That'd be like they did a fist bump. Boom, they did a fist bump there. It is partisanship ripping a part of America right here on our podcast studio. Thanks everybody, Thank you,

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