00:00:00 Speaker 1: M this is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely, folk bitten, and in my case, underwear listening. I'm making a podcast. You can't predict anything. Mm hmm. How's it going? Everybody all right? Mhm uh? Everybody here has been a State Theater today today, just today. I saw um the Cowboy Junkies many years ago, and I feel that mine you saw weird out here. Really, I feel that my it wound up being like that was the first time I was at State Theater. And it turned out that me and my wife think that she was there too, but she would have been way too young for me to be gawking at the time. But I feel that she was not saying that wasn't but I shouldn't have been. Uh, we think so. And then later I came you and me, Uh, I came here to see Bob Dylan and that night, I don't know if you remember, I have a picture. Uh We're sitting there and I was arguing that jello shots don't actually make you drunk, because I had this theory that something happened to the alcohol. Do you remember this show, taking a little time out in the footwell, blow the seats up there somewhere up top, and you know, like at a concert, everybody gets all their season comes down too, you know, dance around. Well when I when I get down my nap, I come down looking for everyone and catch my body Eric doing like a little bit like that, you know what, you kind of like dance behind someone a little bit. But it was like, yeah, I come down like really because he's kind of a little like he's like a little bit doing like the I'm right behind your dancing too behind with my girlfriend at State Theater. Not to me, um, I got a let's do in aductions that I gotta coupe people, gotta say hi to no. We have the lavin eagle weight on the end. Thank him, Uh, Mark Kenyon from water to hug a huge round of applause for our very good friend from growing up Matt Droskys, a low profile get the low ron bam who was kind of kind enough to give me employment uh for several years and then friendship for many more after. And then my big brother Matt Ronelan. Where we're out here is Ada. There's an eleven year old Ada. Okay, listen, your dad needs you to understand that listening to the Meat Eater podcast is better and more important for your mind and spirit than listening to Bruno mars Uh. Hello to Officer Darren McIntosh, you out there, Thank you. Um now, Also, my mother's here tonight, So Rosemary Ranella, we're gonna we're gonna play a game later. We're gonna play a game called Seeing through the Bullshit. And so someone has to come up and be the contestant. And we took a blank map of the theater with all the seats on it and gave it to my mother, Rosemary. Two select a seat who will be the person that gets to come play the game and win something. And my mother made a big deal out of selecting someone from the balcony because she likes the root for the underdogs. A lucky, a lucky, a lucky player up there will be called down to do that. And then, uh, one more thing. We'll get to you guys later too. But birthdays. And we've got birthdays here tonight, I mean a lot really tonight. That mean tonight isn't your birthday? Oh then you won't win like birthdays today? Okay, the oldest, if you're old, you're in luck. We'll get to that later. If it's your birthday and you're old, you're in luck. Um cover that now. A couple of got hit a couple of news items like we like to do. They they just had you guys heard of this the there was like a organized squirrel hunt in New Jersey. They got badly protested by the League of the League of Humane. Let me get this right, it's the League of Humane. Voters organized the protest against the squirrel hunt. The organizer was saying, it's very disconcerting the idea of being a family friendly event. Look at the strong correlation of kids who commit violence against animals as children and then grow up to be violent against people. Writer Listener wrote in, and he was saying, it's weirdest. Part of the plan of the squirrel hunt was to teach people how to acquire and prepara wild game. If the organizer's assertion is true, would it not stand a reason that children who are raised eating meat from a grocery store are more likely to hire hit men to commit violent acts against people on their behalf also got an interesting note from a dude, a good Midwestern boy who bought a new bow and the guys that the bullshot were saying, man, if you want to get dialed for hunting, you shoot the bowl like how you would shoot hunting. And he's playing a hunting a tree stand, but his yard has no tree stands, so he takes the hunting from the phone pole to practicing from the phone pole out on the street. And by the time the police come him and the municipality guy comes, it makes him take a stand down with it. Did give him a line on where to go buy his own phone pole that he can bury it into his yard. Uh. We're talking about Norway recently, where a guy run in with an ethical dilemma from Norway and another guy rode in with a Norway expression. What was the hunting one? The German one? And it means like good luck hunting, like a like the best of luck hunting. Yeah, he got talking about that. And in Norway they say skit jacked, which means I hope you have ship hunting. And it's like the same as saying It's the same as saying like break a leg like you give you know what I mean? They don't want to jinx his outing, so you hit him like that. Can you say it again? I want to make sure remember that it's well s k I T T, which gonna go with skits skits j A k T, which I'm gonna go with that's something to do with hunting JK. That's a yah. I hope you have a ship. I think you should all use the Latvian version of that instead, because we have pretty much the same thing, two different versions of it. We say either shall we godum, which means basically shoot past them or over him, So you're saying like good luck, I hope you miss kind of the Other thing we say is um life to follow on Netta's at, which means I hope that you don't see hide nor hair. Really there's These are both Latvian ones. Can you welcome everybody tonight in Latvian love love vocard? There another another one last news item and and and I know Matt Droles you sent this to me recently, like you grow up these parts taking for granted that you can just go down and walk down the beach, Just take a walk down the damn beach because this is America. Um. And the Supreme Court just confirmed that, yes, in fact, this is America. But what's that The Great Lakes? The Great Lakes are America, so Indiana and Michigan. The Supreme Court actually refused to hear the hearing contesting the ability to walk the high water mark. Yeah, dude, a couple. I'm just throwing out the two people, Donald and Bobby Gunderson. But they suffer from is they suffer from a problem that happens in American society with some people where it's I think like to think of it as too bad. It isn't true that like you buy a house on the beach and the next day here's some dirt bag walking down the beach surf casting, and you're like, you're mad, it isn't illegal to that guy. I wasn't down there on my beach. And then they just have the energy and time to try to like my dream, My dream would be that the people who are enjoying that area, uh just down there, you know, taken in the sun. My dream is that they couldn't enjoy that area. And I'm gonna spend a lot of money preventing them from a joint. But so the Supreme Court not hearing it. They like, challenge it got shot down. Challenge it got shot down, and they took the Freme Court and the Free Court refused to hear it, said that the law stands as is. You know, the high water mark is public public domain. So summer is still on everyone, So summer is still scheduled. This is kind of newsy, but so we hit it right now while it's while we're talking about news, a little bit of news. Mark, You're gonna do a recap Mark, Canyon Wired Hunt. This is the wire to Hunt Michigan deer season recape. What happened? Mark, Well, I think the big thing we were talking about discussing was a little bit not frank Um demographics, a little bit what kind of success rate hunter saw, what kind of participation we saw. And I will preface this by saying that the data available is split between two years, because there's not harvest data available yet for the two thousand eighteen season, but there is license sales data available from this season. So first off, an interesting thing of note is that this year she has eighteen They're about just over six hundred thousand deer hunters in the state of Michigan. That is a lot of deer hunters, one of the highest numbers of deer hunters in the country, but it's down nearly a hundred thousand in just the last five years. Very significant drop drop off, and that is down two hundred thousand deer hunters from a high point of seven or eight five thousand. So we're seeing that pretty precipitous drop. That's the downer good news front. Um, I don't know, maybe not a good news front, depends on how you look at it. But we had the second highest number of bucks killed first state in the entire country. So the only state that killed more bucks. Yes, when you're talking about food and you're like, oh, you know they eat it in Japan anything to do with deer, you're like, let me guess, Yeah, it's Texas or any funky things too. Yeah, So old Michigan killed second only the Texas, second only Texas. Yeah, and that is the third highest. No, let me take that back to the first or second highest bucks per square mile in the entire nation, three times the national average. So we're killing a lot of we're killing a lot of deer, killing how many people in here? God it deer this year man crowd stolen cool. I think I can say with a lot of confidence that we have above average deer hunters in this room because because exactly fifty of the deer hunters in this state killed the deer this past year. Success. Right. If you bump that up to how many people killed more than one deer? What's your guess? What percentage of license hunters killed more than one deer? Killed a deer? I'm gonna go what do you think? Pretty? Five? Five? Really big drop off from one to two or more? Uh? I killed two deer this year in Michigan. NA people, Yeah, yeah, any any other any other good Michigan inside people all know about. Yeah, you did a good job. You got all this memorize nothing written on my Okay hand check. Um. Bow hunting in Michigan very very popular. I think a lot of deer hunters like to talk about how there's so much bow hunting pressure in this state. I sometimes use as an excuse for why it's tough in this state. Um, well, it's backed up by fact we had three hundred and eleven thousand. Is it because of crossbows? I do not know the answer to that. I don't know what the breakdowns between crossbow and bow. But a lot of a lot of passionate bow hunters in this state, and we have the third highest number of bucks killed per square mile in the country with archer equipment, I think if I remember that correctly, is the number of bow hunters? Is that number going up or down? I haven't seen a trend on that. I would guess it's probably parallels the overall What are they attributing? I know it's a host of things, and I kind of already know that it's unanswerable. But what are your insights? What are they attribute What are they attributing to the um the number decline? Have you seen the number of like the total number of people like that compared to ours spent a field? Is it like? Are we losing the like are we losing a lot of like the Lamo weekend? One weekend a year? Dudes? Are we losing like the hardcores? Like? Who are we losing? So I haven't seen data as far as that. I can make some assumptions because you can stay lame o, you know what I mean? Like, Yeah, that's a horrible word choice. That's one of those things you say in life, the one of these yeah, week like a warrior of the weekend, a guy who likes what what's happening? Basically is that and this is kind of the thing you're seeing across the entire nation is that there was this very large group of baby boomers that came in and for a number of different reasons, took on hunting very popular within that demographic, and that group has just been aging. So if you look at the curve of hunting participation by age, you know, twenty years ago you saw like thirty or forty year olds or whatever that Brackett was, that was our highest chunk of hunters. And then is you look for ten years that Brackett just moves further down, and now we see our highest participation of hunters are in that like fifty four to seventy rangers, high sixties. And so what's happening is that your number of hunters every year, retained hunters is dropping off because I can't remember that the age of seventy or seventy two or somewhere around there. Um, there's a very hard line where participation usually starts to dramatically drop off people aging out. So we've got we've had a very large segment of the hunting community that's aging out and that's not being filled back in at the top of the funnel with younger hunters. Another interesting Michigan. Thing is that I saw data from two thousand through fifty team that showed the number of new hunters coming in if some might remember that back in twelve thirteen, somewhere around there were encouraged because there were some new numbers that showed across the nation hunting participation was up a little bit. Um, so that was kind of a reason to celebrate. Well, this data showed in Michigan that the number of new hunters is still actually going down. So we're ore ore our three you know, attempts, recruitment, retention, etcetera. Um, maybe we're at least from twos in thirteen and fifteen was moving the wrong direction, which was not pective here. Like trend Yeah, so like the hun's gonna get Michigan Hun's gonna get better and better. It depends on how you're looking at it. I guess they're looking if you want less less pumpkins in the woods, yeah, which I mean, like selfishly, would I like it if there's fewer people. It would be nice for my own personal hunting, But for the long it's not. It's not what you want as long as it's like it might feel immediately beneficial, but there's Uh, there's a long term play that some people feel that long term play becomes compromised exactly. Okay, Uh, if you had to hit Michigan and one word and it can't be a hand gesture, Michigan is a single word, what would the word be? Do I go first? I can go first? You're not ready? Can let you guys? Give you some time? Okay, I call a second all right, I think someone else might take I'm gonna now, I'm picking this where net because I've been gone now for twenty years, but I'm gonna go with green, green, green? What's sense? That's true? Man? What sense? That's a good point, just like the color like color. Yeah, because being in the last men, you don't realize you're throwing off here, how green and how jungle like this foliage is. When I come back now in the summer, we're not just going driving down these boulevards that you know, giant overhanging oaks, you know, the big giant leaves, and it's just so green, and you know, I feel it in my soul. When I was spending a lot of time out in Matt's Neck of the Woods out in eastern Montana, I would come here and be struck by the foliage. But then it was cool. But then, like I lost that buzz kind of living in the Pacific Northwest. But I think it'll come back now. Yeah. Like to look from an airplane and just see that line of leaves, Man, it's reassuring. But God's bleak in the winter. H not today. It was beautiful today. I thought you were saying we're green, like a bunch of new hunters. I didn't really pictures the land carpeted in cash um a bunch of marijuana growing into the wood. What do you got, Marke that did just become legalized? Um tradition? Tradition? Yeah, I think I look at Michigan and I see a estate filled with a lot of passion for the tradition. Funding and then also so I'd say it's like the macro level tradition. But then also personally, you know, when I think of Michigan hunting, it's the tradition of my family, deer camp and spending time with family in those those moments. Everyone, everyone up here except Ronnie was born Great State of Michigan. No, that's not true. I was born in Hinsdale. You were how old when you moved to Michigan two months about that that? Yeah, that's right. Where was that where Kinsdale, Illinois suburb? I was both born in Indiana with Indiana Oh never mind, I thought I was. I thought, like, man, but everybodys up here is a faker sands plans. How do they say that formative yearsatiformative? We've all spent former years here. I got more Michigan laid up right here than you boys. Um Man, what do you got? One word? Man? Like? So I thought about this when you asked this question earlier, and like I kind of don't want to say what I was thinking, but like I want to stay adorable adorable, but like, but like I have to describe what I mean when I say that, because it's because you got to be like a special dude to use the word a door, right exactly. I was like, like, what's he talking about? Adorable? Anyone kick his ass? Like no, Like, I mean, like it's like it's adorable. Yeah, it's like it kind of plays off that tradition. It's like this, like it's like, you know, it's complex, it's got all these things, all the seasons, like the big city of the small city that like the urban like it's got all of that. It's kind of like Norman Rockwell adorable sort of like sense to it, but yet like it's also kind of a qualifier for like bigger state stuff. Like it's a qualifier like for moving tom On Town. It's a qualifier for last it's got you know, you can fish salmon here. You know you can't fish that in many states. So in the you know, Colstalt states, there's a big game here. Like, so it's got a little bit of everything. So that was kind of adorable. Makes me want to panic because I can't come up with a word. The only thing I could think of is from moving from Illinois to here is uh, Yanni actually stole mine. I was gonna go green. You were gonna roll with green. Yeah, I was thinking green because that's what I thought of when I came here. You know, Illinois a prairie state. We got trees, but they're in the city. And uh so, I guess the only thing I can think of destruct me from coming here as a kid is just water, like all the different kind you got waterfalls, great lakes, little lakes, swampy lakes, duck ponds, every just water, frozen water, lots of hard water. Yeah, hard water. Yeah, that's all I can come up with. My mind was the is the adjective form of water watery water? Nice going Illinois brother better than the reason I even asked that question is the uh. I was talking to the writer Ian Frasier one time and he like, really he's from Ohio, but really like to talk about me being from Michigan. And he said, one day we were talking about Michigan, and he said, you know, when I think of Michigan, I always sick of people that I met on the boss who would say fuckers honorable. I've ever been like, that's true that I thought that was being on a bus elementary school. But that is how we say that. Up. I just said it. So that's six in my head. I can't get it out of my head. Um okay, now another Michigan thing real quick. Um. You could pick, and I gotta warn you about this. You can pick your favorite Uncle Ted or Uncle Bob's song, but you'll get one of each. You can do one of each, but I think it'd be too long because I'd be like twelve tunes. I think you should go one. It could be either Uncle Bobby or Uncle Teddy. I tried to talk Matt and to bring in his guitar to play a little bit of every favorite song and the seeker ones. You'd be all over some of them. But he was intimidated. He was intimidated by certain other tunes that you were like, are too complex. Yea, So he did not bring the guitar. I can't, I can't shred. Can you do like a like if someone says the song you able to like helmet? Yeah, something like that. Yeah. So, because because these are like things I think, like foundational Michigan music. And I know there's newer versions, but I'm just dating myself here, but this was old music when I was a kid. Uncle Bobby, you know, picture yourself, Marty raising your hand. Yeah, I call I call it nugent song because I don't. I don't think I could name a singer song. Dude, Come on, this guy, Mark Kenyon is the only man I've ever met in my life who identifies can I do it to you? Like it's almost like the name that shall not be spoken. I don't know what you're talking about. Musicians Mexico. With a long conversation, Mark like, actually, if you ask Mark Mark likes. It's like they're like the fans each trying to say he's not like my favorite, but Billy Joel is pretty good. He also didn't see Jeremiah Jensen. Uh yeah, finally, I'm less shocked that he can't name a nugent song. I got nugent. Oh, I think said Night Moves, No Flow me Away my favorite news song. My favorite song is the clichest song you could possibly think of for this event. But it was on a CD that I listened to every morning when heading to go hunting. So on my Deer Hunting soundtrack, first track got me pumped up every more and hand out see iconic fred Bear. Yeah, oh that that counts. That counts, you can. I think I can only name one of each, Like I'm just not good at this game. I've never been good at this game. But yeah, it would be Night Moves, Night Moves, and I like it more now since you explained. I used to just sing along, never really thought about words and songs, sing along and dance a little bit, enjoying myself feel good. But when you explained what that song means, like it changed it. You know what actually is happening in this Yeah, that one. Yeah, I would like that. Can you explain it? Maybe just want one verse everything. I'd love to hear it. Yeah, it's about senescence. It's like growing old and fade out. Woke last night the sound of Thunder. They're like it strikes a man deep. When you started listening to it, real heavy, how far off? I said, and wondered, you could read it like a Bob Service poem you got when you want to rip out um, Like, I feel like I should go with roll me Away because like motorcycles. But but I have to go with um. The live version of travel Man and the Brief Loser. Yeah, that's when when it kicks at the uful Loser in the middle of that. That's pretty good man. And then I do have a Ted. I do a Ted song great Buffalo really yeah, that's a good one. Yes, the B side too, You're not like a big music but that was like, oh yeah, the live version was the I'm not I never have, but I have continually bought Bob Seeker c ds of the greatest It's a Bob Seeger for the last twenty years, and when they burned up, I throw them out. So my daughter you can't he plays it that fast. I'm on the road a lot, and I have instructions to my daughter Jesse. At my funeral it will be accompaniment. You will accompany me. That's I will cry if I start doing the lyrics to that. Do it and do it. It makes me. It makes me weep. Also with the seeker theme, but mine probably would probably be a refugee. That's Uncle Tom, which is not from here. But you got you gotta admit that's a pretty good song. I heard it. I heard it yesterday. Um, but really, i'd say, uh, I can't pick just one. I have to go to um and and one is as sweet as the other, as savage, I'd say, in the sweet end its main Street and then on the savage end, it's her strut. Both those songs are are about you know, there's only two songs I know of in this whole catalog that are about how you say adult dancing? Yes, but you this is a debate. I don't know if you remember this. We used had. We had a like big debate about what strut is about? Right right? In struct Uncle Bobby says, um, I do respect her, I do respect her, but I loved to watch her struct. That's what he says. Matt used to say, no, no, no, He's saying, I do respect her, but I love to see I love to watch her strut. And we would argue about that endlessly. And I hope that now you've given up it does see a little little silly and retrospect. The problem with all that stuff is like, oh, it's just like you come back here, you hear so much classic rock and montana. You don't hear nearly as much. It's hard to keep up on it. But that stuff is so good, but it just gets so old, you know. I mean, after a lifetime of listening to it. If I wish I don't, I wish I had like rock and roll dementia where I could be gone and I could discover the new. You know, Yeah, that'd be good, because I was my mind has been taken. Like with friends that you haven't seen in five years, you'd stick get in your car and you'd be like, he had that album in five years ago. When I got in this car, Yeah, I'm gonna my mind's already been taken. But definitely, uh, definitely the older I get like the Night Moves thing, because now that I'm like practically dead half way. It's especially meaningful. But remember we had a conversation about Hollywood Knights when you're driving. Yeah, like that's a good driving song. Makes you want to drive faster than you should. Okay, so that's your Michigan tune. If you had to do and and Mark Kenny, I'm barring you from doing what I think you're gonna do one Michigan hunting and fishing activity. You have to pick one thing, one hunting fishing thing in Michigan, and that's the only one you can engage in and don't worry about like factoring out how many days you can participate in it for a year. But like the thing that is best to you. But you're borrowing me from saying what I think you're going to say. So I can't say dear him. You can't do that. Uh? Is that for you in a really bad position? No, okay, you can say it. Easy answer other than dear would be turkey hunting Turkey young, send me get me after the Gallerys Michigan Turks. Yeah, I probably had to go turks to man. Yeah. No, I love my Squirreld but really all but you really love squirrels. I really, I really love squirrels, man, but those those turkeys. Man. Like, somebody asked us recently about, like, which animals most challenge jing or what do you love about hunting so much? I answered because I love the challenge. And I feel like I was um, I wasn't clear enough, and people mistook I was saying that I love that just the physical challenge of it so much. But turkey hunting really a lot of times it's not that physical, right like, and and that's one thing I love about it for looking at the future is when I'm an old man, I can probably still be hunting turkeys, but the turkey just consistently humbles me, and that's really nice to have in the species. Squirrels have been doing that to me lately as well, but I feel like they might have a time where I won't be humbled by the squirrel anymore. But like turkeys. The thing, you know, I love to hunt turkeys, and they do humble you. But sometimes I wonder if turkeys are hard because they get smart or is it because there they're so unsmart that they become completely unpredictable, right, Because if you really review it in your mind, there could be two things going on. One would be that he's cag Two it's just he's completely irrational. It's probably a little bit of both. And you you you mistake his irrational character because you'd be like, well, why, like I'm making like these enticing sounds, you should want to come over here to make love to this hand turkey that I'm mimicking. But he's just so whacked out there doesn't even occur to him to come do it. If I could solve that, then that maybe would go with it. But I have a different one that I'm gonna go with. But it doesn't matter because the chess game is only in my head. He's not really playing against me, right, he doesn't know? Good point? Did you did you we talked about four? Did you see the thing the guy did where I was saying, if you set up on a like, if you set up on a roost tree a hundred yards away from the roost tree, what are the odds of the turkeys calculator? Thirteen percent of the time he'll walk within shotgun range of you, which is kind of about right. Like just randomly select the position in a in a circle around a rose tree and there's a thirteen percent chance he'll pass it in forty yards of one side of you or the other. And I feel like that's about I mean, I still love what you're saying. Man, I'm that dogging on turkey hunting, like I want to say deer hunting too, but I think that I feel like like that's kind of like it's kind of goes yea from that. But I also like I also like honestly like bouncing around in a boat like bottom fishing, like wondering what you're gonna get out there, like just like pan fish basket, like just an unknown lake, like not knowing what's gonna happen. Like I like that drop bait down to the bombom like just like seeing what you're gonna get, because like if your turkey hunting, you're like going to get a turkey, which is great. Yeah, I love that, But I also like going out through like kind of the unknown, like what am I gonna get today? Like I like that idea, like you're asking a little questions in the lake. Oh well I can't really. I'd you know, i'd be hunting grouse and have to hunt grouse. That'd be the one, the one thing that um, if I couldn't travel anymore, I could always count on Michigan for having a handful of growse to chase. What are what are grouse numbers in Michigan doing right now? Well, I heard a guys say recently they do best in the years that end in nine and zero, So that would be this fall and following fall from here. So it's good right now, it should be coming up. Yeah, we're hoping. So there's no like long term trouble because like Indiana, like a state endangered birden Yeah, Indiana is gonna listed is endangered. It's not gonna affect us any but it's gonna be listed in danger. There. No, it's it's dry. It's still dropping off precipitously in every state. Like our grouse numbers will never take what we took years ago, just because changing timber practices. I think mostly, I think you know, habitats like everything, habitats, habitats like location, location to buy a house. It's always habitat. But you know, luckily we do a little bit of timbering, you know, not enough, but we do a little bit of timbering. But I mean, you can find grouse even if it's not a clear cut you can find grouse, and that's the one thing I couldn't live without. I'd have to have that. Yeah. Oh, I don't like this removing the sidebar of like taking it out of the season like season like it. Oh I had these guys are here shooting chicks and June or something. Oh No, what I meant was What I meant was you could like I'm trying to free you from feeling like you need to pick a thing just because you can do it for long, for many days, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna stay with even though that's the case. I'm gonna stay with perch fishing yellow perch because well, I guess two reasons yellow for today I did. Um, there's just so much opportunity. They're they're so good to eat, And I just like the how egalitarian it is. You know, you don't need permission. There's so many you know, it's like every man's fish. Yeah, I'm with you. When I was thinking about this guy, I think about a lot. Uh. The thing I like most was something we only we didn't do that many times. And I think that you Matt Droles. You and our brother Danny pioneered it, which was where Pendles Creek flows out into Pendle's Bay on which is kind of like Whitefish Bay, right, yeah, Lake Superior, and you guys this is in the mid nineties. Yeah, it would have been nineties six. Yeah, you guys figured out that you could go down there in the spring those fall too though, both taking spawn sax with little bits of foaming him, yeah, and hucking him out and catching little dinker steel head. Yeah. We said, yeah, yeah, it was amazing rise and just like just sitting back and wait him to go off. Surf ye surf fishing Lake Superior. And one time we caught a beaver by the tail. I grab that. You know. That was back when we would do something called we would call worrying wildlife where you were just now and then detain a beaver just for the story. We would send him along his way after after worrying him. But you know, there's a picture I have there's a picture I have from fishing Pendals Bay, like surfcasting Pendal's Bay, and we were down there, I think it was it was real winded. I think we got done fishing and everybody was drinking Boone's Farm wine. And what stuck out, like what sticks out about the picture and what sticks out about that little brief kind of moment when we did that a lot was that, remember it was enf It was a handful of times of friends mine. It was like, I guess I was hit the age where you're like when you're when you're really young, you got friends, but you don't think about them. That's when you call your body fuckers, you know, right, and like that's how you are with your friends, you know. It's like costs that friendship much. It's just there. It's just you just taking for grants. It's the guy you accuse of masturbating. It's like you have your friends, you accuse him of masturbating, you give him the finger when you see him, and he's just your main friend, you know, and you know that you're like thinking, you know, like dog Dura says, You're like, no, it's not a dog, right, So you're just together. But then like at that this Pendle's Bay Day and I'm thinking of was one of the first moments when I whatever hit an age where I was like, my god, do I like my friends? You know, and like away and I have this picture from that day and look at the pictures like this realization that you know, you do like these people, they're not just people to flip off or whatever. One you see him and it was like this kind of like cherished moment. Now always to have this thing and I look at it and it's always anchored in time because we would drink a lot of Boone's back then. I remember we were fishing Pendals Lake one time. That's so cold that our boons froze. I was, I was in it rolls up as a syrup, yeah, and then we would just do shots of the syrup that came up out of the top of your So my daughter. I took my daughter ice fishing other day, which well, actually she asked me to go ice fishing, which is great, but then I found out later she was doing it because she wanted to get out of a babysitting gig that I didn't know she was asked to do. And she's like, my dad's gonna take me ice fishing, and then she asked me to ice fishing, so that was like the whole stick. But then we were on the ice and she was like, you've been out ice fishing for a whole day. And I was like thinking about one of those pendal strips, like, oh yeah, Like Steve and I used to go out and like, man, damn, we go out all day long, cook out the ice, like left the Boone's farm part out, but like and she had She's like she was very like that would be fun. I'm like and I was kind of like just when you said, I was thinking like yeah, and that was Those are good times, man, those are good friends, like just like all day long on that lake. You somehow I don't recognize that when it's happening. It was fun as times, man. Okay, moving on to cross bows. Uh why Like cross bows are super controversial all of a sudden. Man, I'm gonna be the guy here that's an opponent of cross bows like them. I'm going out so with my daughter and like with the there's a youth hunt that takes place earlier in the season and on public land. You can't use a rifle. This is this is all correct, right, I'm saying this correct. And so be northern like Grand Travers like Travis County, like you can't use a a youth can't use a rifle in public land during that early season hunt. I've never been up there for that. I'll buy that. That's right, doesn't that sound right? So anyhow, so it was time for me to get a new bowl. And she was like eight or eight ish, and so I was starting to take her hunting. I was so was kind of true figuring like what could I like, what could I like, I can invest in the new bowl for me? You know, I could buy this like cross bow that she I can both use. It's like universe And she was into hunting, but she was like she was still nervous about like gun shots, and it's kind of like a like a like a gateway drug into that. I guess, like this cross bow, I'm with you. And she loved it and like I kind of bought it. I was like for her, But now I use it. It's great, Like I love it. And you know, there's always talks about like you take these like fire shots, and it's it's you know, it may just be how I view it. And now high high hunt, but I haven't taken a shot with that thing that I would not have taken with a bow, Like I don't like, you know, it's it's you shoot it. You can see that bolt still moving, so it's not like it's rifle, you know, quality of like taking an eight yr shot. You know, if you shoot a bow, you know, you know you get let's do that that jumped the string or whatever, and like you know, move quickly, So you always got that in mind. So any like fire shot, like I always had that in mind. So I just make sure it's like a normal bow shot and take it with that that crossbow and you're having success. Yeah, you've a shot one mark. I have shot crossbows, never had an animal, but my dad used a crossbow, Grandpa used one back in the day. I don't have a problem with him. I understand why some people see there being ethical questions around long shots, or why some people don't like the idea of a bunch of people describbing a crossbow and heading out during their cherished archery season. But who's I mean, who's drawing these lines and what's okay what's not. You could have a traditional archers say well, you shouldn't be taking your crossbow, but I think it's also like you put a lot of stock in and just like hunting is so much more than like that that piece of equipment that you use. I think you know, so you put all those like stocking like hunting is just like if you're using a bow or crossbow, that that makes your breaks whether or not you're like an ethical hunter or like enjoying the hunt. When you just talking about like you know, like the like the numbers of bow hunters are declining like that, it's probably not good for hunting. And and that's my yes, sir, I don't say the biggest reason why I'm okay with crossbows is simply because of that trend. Anything that's going to help people stick around in the hunting participating population longer, I'm gonna be okay with. And that's something that a is easier for new hunters pick up. So if we want to make it easier for new folks to get into deer hunting and try archery hunting, it's a whole heck of a lot easier for someone who maybe is interested in eating local food, some guy who's twenty five and is intrigued by the food aspect of it. It's gonna be really hard to get that person right at the gate shooting a vertical bowl, but give him a crossbow. Shame for kids like I bought it for my daughter, and I think that's a good like kind of entry level like piece of equipment for you know, you know if she if she pursues it more than then we will buy you know, a decent bowl. But like there's kind of like a way to get her to stay out in the words with me and like kind of be engaged in her own and she can use it. So yeah, I think I didn't know how I felt about when the first unseen and then I you know, thought about it in boss this and I'm happy with it. I think it's a good, good, good thing. Like I advocate, Like if there's someone who got into hunting picked up a crossbow and that's what they started with and they liked it, I would tell that person, just from my own personal experiences, if you like that, you would really love trying a time like there's a it's a it's another level, it's a different experience. It requires another totally different level of time and energy and expertise, but it makes that experience a little bit different, a little bit more intimate in some way. What if instead they say this was great, but now have you seen these things that shoot the bolts out of what looks like a rifle ball guns. Yeah, what did they say? You know what? This thing just shoots the arrow too right guarded as a gun or a boat. We haven't decided yet. I mean, can I use this during archery season? I understand there's gotta be a long a line drawn somewhere, and I agree that's that's a tough question answer. You know. It's interesting is that, for whatever reason, when I look at that, my guts like, oh no, that should not be used. But then when you start thinking about why, why, where's the Maybe there's some mechanical thing within that the then you we can point to say if it has this mechanism that propels the bowl to the eraw, then it can qualify as archery. But if it's compressed gas or something like that, I don't know. Um. You know, our dad was involved because he started bowl hunting very early, and he was involved with groups that were early on petitioning states to create archery seasons, which at the time was very controversial for many of the same reasons that people point to controversies around cross balls. People didn't want to have archery seasons because I was gonna destroy deer hunting. I don't know. But then so he was involved in that in the fifty's and then was vehemently opposed to crossbows for the same set of reasons that he battled against, you know, to to try to bring in archery seasons. I don't. I've never I've never shot once, so I don't really have This is just something I'm trying to look at and figure out. I had a guy, right, and he's like, yeah, you know, efficacy rates don't really go up with crossbows, but it's only because inexperienced hunters use them. He's if the real hard hitters, if the real hard hitters were using them, it'd be like game over from his perspective, like the real lifelong hard hitters switch to that would be like they'd be exceptionally deadly. So I don't know the instincts, Matt. I don't know. I don't I don't have an ethical position on it. My own state were I hunt, and I'm very selfish about like I like there to be a few people as few people in areas as possible. I would I would completely selfishly hope they don't have crossbows because it seems like it would turn into more people being do you think more people like, do you think people that didn't hunt Austin started hunting because crossbows came on the scene. Absolutely you think, so, I'm or rifle hunters. I could. That's what it comes to mind me, is that a rifle hunter be like, oh no, I can hunt with this thing. And I think the whole question comes down to which way do you look at things? Do you look at that from the perspective of do you want more hunters or do you want fewer hunters? Do you want fewer hunters because it's going to lead to a better experience for you personally, then you probably want to crossbows if you are less concerned about your specific way of experiencing the wild and what your hunt is gonna be like, and you are thinking more about what are things gonna be like twenty years from now my son's hunting than that person I think supports crossbows. I'm on board until Matt loses the opportunity. Once Matt opportune, I say, okay, I'm ready to move on. I want to talk about emotional support dogs. It's it's a good How many dogs do you own currently? Five? Do you have any of them registered as an emotional support dog or even registered as one, like do you have an emotional support dog? So? How it? Like, Matt, can you we haven't really talked about this, you have one? I have an emotional support course break down for me? Are you at liberty to talk about it? Sure? Okay, as long as the airlines some representatives, I'd like to I'd like to entertain you. I want you to talk and I don't want to get yourself trouping from the perspective of some of an emotional support dog. Yeah, well, because how is it? Okay? Go ahead, no fish your question? Okay? Is it just that you don't want to be inconvenienced, so therefore you have an emotional support dog? Or do like? Just to speak for your community? Is it that you guys are like all you mean I could do this and then just bring my dog everywhere? Is that? Or is it I? Emotionally, I guess it's like, um, I enjoyed being with my dog, so like I like my dog to be with me, and I just so happened to like I I have struggled with depression in my whole life, so I'm on antidepressants, which makes me eligible to get the dog. To have Shifty be an emotional support dog. Is it more emotional for you to be with? Is it more emotional for me with alpha dogs? So it's really the only reason I registered. I I saved a few hundred bucks on airline tickets. But it's totally legit, right, And because she's an emotional support dog, I'm allowed to like have her on a leash next to me on the plane outside of a kennel. But I don't want people. I want people to think I'm paying to take her, so I put her in a kennel so they don't think them they don't, they don't know him crazy. I gotta, I gotta. I want to put the comparison to this because I know people who have done this. Getting an emotional support dog permit is like getting America a medical marijuana slip from your doctor. The same as you say, I got a headache, okay, here you can buy marijuana. That was my doctor wanted a few days to think about it. Doctor, So you don't, but you don't use it for because like with bird dogs, to be great, right, I could fly to Alaska with one and go ahead, Termagan if I could tell him I was you know, I needed a dog for emotional support, that'd be great. But you haven't done it. I never even thought about it. But I know people have done it. I know people who have done it with a full sized dog, and they were afraid that we're gonna get caught because, like you said, you don't want to say too much, because part of it's for convenience. You know you you love that dog. You don't want to leave it. I don't think can emotional sup four dogs be any size or do they have to be any breath doesn't matter, could be a master for quirky, It doesn't matter if change your gears a little bit, if you this is so I think that I get I get nostalgic in Michigan. What's the thing from growing up that if you when you tell someone about it, now, what what part of like some belief system or thing that was typical or happened or extraordinary or whatever that when you tell someone that that happened to you when you were young, it sounds the most fucked up? Can I leave off like from from a hunting perspective and just whatever you want they could be. Go ahead, and you have a clarifying question. You said us a couple of ideas that we'd be talking about, and I said, Steve must have put me up to this one. You have one? Yeah, well, I mean, well I didn't put you up to that. I sent the idea to you. Yeah well, I mean but I thought you you threw that one in because you know some history about me. Oh no, because I have things I can't tell. Okay, I have no, there's some things that there's there's some practices that I was familiar with. I'm talking about like in the sporting life that um now I just have to I would talk about them with you downstairs, say, but not up here. This is just like growing up stuff things that you can't believe and people nowadays. Yeah, I'll do I'll do mine, just to set to get on talk. Okay, okay, because I got mine ready. I tell my I told my wife this story. I told my kids a story and they look at me like they can't picture what I'm talking about. My dad used to have a friend who would come over. Uh he was. He was a drunkard named Mr Higgins. And I remember Mr Higgins coming over our house one time on his snowmobile in his snowsuit. But didn't have clothes on under his snowsuit. And do you remember this? Yeah, and he took one of our pet hamsters and put it in his snows suit. Wasn't a gerbil? Yes, snow a hamster put it? I think it was a hamster, not a gerbil. I think, came back and put it in his snowsuit and let it run around while saying I love that little critter. And it burned it into my mind, just Mr Higgins, how drunk he'd be, how he'd come over on a snowmobile. And it's just like and I probably even messed the parts of it up. But when I tell people, I don't know why. I was just like one of the stories that's in my repertoire. And it's gotten to be that these people used to laugh. And now I tell people who look at me like, you can't be telling me this. But guy wouldn't like now, if he were to try to do that, he would burn up in flames or something over Like, guys don't show up dress that way drunk on snowmobiles anymore. Right, it's just, for whatever reason, something in the air not accepted. So I'm gonna take liberty because you know the story. Matt probably does, and me being the old guy here, Um, I mean, the one thing is like this is the greatest this is the greatest thing in the world. It's not. It wasn't when you were growing up. But I want to pressace it with when I was a kid. You know, I'm sixty one years old. We literally got out of the house in the morning and left and we lived in the city of Chicago, in the city and just exactly, I mean, it's just what I'm getting that is like our parents didn't really I'm not saying they didn't care. They just didn't worry like parents worried now. They didn't helicopter. And then that same thread, there was a policy at the Chicago public schools that I hadn't I was oblivious to. In eighth grade in Chicago went first to eighth grade. You didn't have scoth You know where I'm going, all right, So, like you get junior high here and I don't understand what just happened between you two. I just know the story is I thought you knew about skipping from the first and so I graduate eighth grade, like we didn't have a middle school thing. So you go from this little school with one little gymnasi hamster in your junior high. No junior high. So you come from eighth grade and all of a sudden, you're gonna go now with these all these people older than you, and you're all your friends from eighth grade. Yeah, dude with five o'clock shadows and stuff, you know, in sophomore year and come to find out and this is you can google this. It is a policy, was a policy until nineteen seventy six. I graduated in seventy five. The boys swam naked in swim class. Now I'm not we sat Now, I'm not trying to steal the thunder, because no one's the thunders. The thunders you have. Matt was there and we were all up with the fish shack in Alaska, and I'm telling this story. You guys are rolling and Doug's not believing me, and Danny kild the only one that had a signal on his phone. And Danny goes, yeah, look here boys in Chicago's swim make and I'll end it on that. But whetting At nobody knows. You can look it up. And they say, uh, you know the you know the swimsuits. If they weren't well kept and they were just dirty. I'm like, it didn't make any sense. I could go into too many swimming stories, but I just wanted a picture. And I know it's like it's like Pink Floyd's the wall man. It's like they're like, it makes no sense. It's just they're like, I want to make sure to cause this looks psychological damage to children as possible. Right. And the point I was good before was our parents couldn't go to school. I didn't even have parent teacher conferences nless you were, you know, the kid that was in the hallway all week. And so if you become a home you say we swim naked, your mom gonna go like you're going outside me back by dinner. It didn't seem to bother anybody that I was also born October thirty, so I was like way behind the maturity scale when you were eleven months behind everybody else. Kept looking in the locker for swimsuits. But watching everybody walking, looks like my dad gotta gotta think about thinking somewhere. I think I felt like I did. I had less on that. If you know what I'm saying, So like you got naked and it took more stuff off. I was more naked, and I to this day, I can't swim a lick. I go opened the boat with you. I got the one life preserver to just kids. Wedding goes anyway, So I'm really I don't know, maybe I ate up too much time. It's weird, is like at the same time, I thought everybody's running around those Rodney Dangerfield swimsuits like from that to school, like like the suit that was a little before me. But yeah, man, I had nothing, sorry, any practices that. Uh. When I was a kid, I listened to Billy Joel, There's some things are so embarrassing, s mart, keep it to yourself. Parents wouldn't let that happen anymore. Was it supposed to have a Michigan twist or no? From our childhood? Oh yeah, because he violated the Michigan rule. No, just go ahead. And when you tell the story now, people kind of look at you like is that for real? Like you're like, it feels very like you're dating something like another one. I'll tell well, I I think I got something for you. It's like when I tell all you guys about Latvian summer camp and went what went on there? You guys all look at me like I can go on and on about the activities that went on there, but it's it's just like every other summer camp since it was Latvian summer camp experience. No, nothing like that. Like another version of what I'm saying would be the remember one time my dad rounding a corner and my brother, we're little kids. The door swung open and he shot out onto the curb. So there there's like a couple of things where those safety belts, no child restraint seats, and he's riding shotgun. So that's just different now, Like now it's hard to pict your kids squirting out of it fast cornering car. No nothing, you go, no, No, I don't know if I have anything like that from mine. Yeah, I kind of misread the question, what did you think of men? I thought you were talking about like really inhumane things we did as kids. Oh yeah, that's what I was saying. That must be okay to talk about that. But now that I realized that's not what you're asking, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be okay, although it does in't a kid, how things work different? Yeah, are you guys familiar with um mark. You correct me if I'm wrong on this. If if you like, if you shoot a high fenced deer, is it true like that deer is non admissible into Pope and Young and Boone and Crockett correct, that's correct. So we got a number of question record books for that kind of thing that there are people keep those records, but not the fair chase Boone and Crocker books like sci will accept it, right, yeah, Sei and some other things. So Boone and Crockett and Pope and Young will not accept like a confined dear from a confined area in the record books. But we got a couple of emails from guys ask an interesting question where the fish world doesn't have an equivalent. So some dude like, I want to get my story straight here, some guy in Tennessee bakes a pond, has a private pond, and basically builds a croppy in the pond that beats the state record. Yeah, beats the state record by a pound. That guy should be ashamed himself. And then it's like this so ridiculous, But I f g A accepts the what is it? The whole idea of having a trophy that you like accomplished something well, and this other guy wrote and Mark might don't know about this, I don't know. I don't want to put it on you. But it's there's there's a guy in Texas who's managing a pond and his whole deal is just to grow the next world record bass. And he says that this feller was actually influential in the creation of food plots to grow large white tails. I don't know if that's true or not. It was last May that the guy in Tennessee raised himself up in a little pond a new world record croppy. So it's more about now it's like it's not about you're angling skill. It's like how good you are at fish husbandry? Eg. Yes, but that's but this is where this is where it gets like a rich subject because that's what that's what people's happened. Like. There's there's there's the argument that what that like white tail hunting has become animal husbandry. It's become like like big time white to hunting has become more akin to animal husbandry than hunting, which you know, there's sides to it, but this idea that um that that that's infiltrating or permeating the fish world and should an organization that the Tally's records, like the I f J is very strict, like if you hook a fish and then hand the rod to me and I landed, that fish is ineligible. Okay, you can't gasp it all kinds of stuff, but you can basically make a frank and fish. Yeah, as long as I don't hand the rod to you. Right, it's the record. It's it's like, uh, what is the goal? I thought that it seems like the goal should be like that if you get a high score in one of these things, that that's like emblematic of some kind of an accomplishment. Yeah, and so it just it's two. I've always argued that there should be one that's like for the score you get when you shoot something where everybody else can go, and that would be like the one that most people would aspire to have the top score at. Yeah, like you you've proposed the idea, and I've talked about it. You've proposed the like the hunt purity score is a different thing, different that's that's a that's a different animal. But this this is about like if we're gonna have some number that um quantifies a hunting achievement. It's just be there should be one that's designated for fishing game that was harvested where anybody can go. They have to catch this like so this this fish is raised to do you actually have to catch it like on a hooking line to like qualify. Yeah, you know you gotta then catch it you have right there. You can't net it up. You gotta like catch it by certain Is there any difference in that and making your property into food pots and all that other stuff? I don't know. I'm throwing so I like the fish out of the pot in the backyard. Yeah. I think the bigger issue I had. The bigger issue is is even the idea of applying or saying that the score of an animal's antlers is indicative of some kind of skill that you as a hunter has it all. I think that's where issue is in general, that we're looking at this number if it's not that well, I would say, I mean, I'd say I'd say it's like always that, Like, why else would you have a scoring system unless it's like a way, it's surrogate for how long you're That's not when it came up with scoring systems. When the Boone and Crockett Club was started, they were keeping they were trying to improve the records of Elbow to understand these species back in the nineties. Well, it's it's coming along the way, but no, it's important to understand that that it was a way that you could It was a way you could look you can look at long term trends of what the landscape was capable of producing. So whatever became like, there was there was a way to wait. It was like at a time, this sort of way to tabulate and mark what what species were doing. It's like when somebody tells you, yes, the inches of their deer, they're not They're not boasting about what productive habitat they hunt. I think the score can be valuable, is like an indication of like the rarity of an animal. Like I killed the deer that scored higher than the deer killed the higher score deer than I ever had before this past year. Does that mean I'm some kind of great hunter because of it? No. The only thing I look at that as, if anything, it's just simply I was fortunate enough to kill a very rare dear and so in my own mind that that's kind of special just because of how rare that animal is out there. But no way do I sign any kind of like higher skill let to myself because I kill the X dear, and so and so killed so many lessones. Dear, But you're drifting, But that's drifting for what we're talking about. What we're talking about, like the thing with raising a fish up in a pond is it's in a completely controlled environment, right, So it's not even it's not like you're taking on the idea that there should there be like maybe you're arguing the idea should there be? Is there validity to having a system by which we score things with fish? Is just weight? You know? But this is sort of like if you have like our normal notion of like someone catches a fish, there's a normal sense of um, he got it, oh definitely, and where whereas others could not. I have a question because you know, I'm not the big game hunter in the room. Okay, but I gotta go to boone crocketad Okay, So if Buondo crocketat or Pope and young was started to to see what, how, dear were healthier, bigger, bigger antlers are we saying in the beginning of Boone and Crockett, there was nobody's name next to who shot it. Well, then I go back with Matt's idea, Well, there's all kinds of information about it, but it wouldn't be important to have the hunter's name on it. Let's say, let's say you knew that some county in Michigan, once upon a time, some county in Michigan used to every year. I'm just gonna pull like a number that's not achieved. But let's say some county in Michigan every year would kill twenty Boone and Crockett bucks every year. But then you look and it's been a decade since one has been produced in that county. Do you regard that as helpful or not helpful information? If I was a game hunter, I guess I would find that as helpful. If if you were a guy that wanted to deal with a big score, yet to be very helpful, I think, But I also think it's telling. It's telling of something else. The fact that some people abuse it or fetishize it. I don't think then means that the whole idea of scoring something is invaluable or invalidated because some guy is a prick about it. So do you think this guy will go back next year? Catch that croppyn't have the first and second place? Speaking of fish, what health advisories on fish? Like, you eat a lot of fish, you eat a fair bit of fish, fish marks, but not as much as you pay much attention to health advisories. I don't. You really don't. I really don't. It's it's trick like they I don't, but I'd rather I didn't know about him. That's yeah, I got nervous. I'll say that like I I'm willing to trust. I mean, I live as though I trust the science emphatically. Like if there's there's a there's a reservoir by my house that I fish and says don't eat fish out of your more than three times a month, and I'll be like, okay, I will. If as long as I don't eat four times, then I am one hundred percent. You know, um, it's weird. There's so much weird stuff about food. It's like though, it's like, uh, I know, I hear people talk about that all the time, that pond um. But these are people like friends of mine where I live that oh no, there's that help. But These are people that eat grilled meat and process meat like brats and stuff four or five times a week. There's so much evidence that world meat causes cancer. It's like undeniable. But they'll do that, you know, So it's like That's one of the things that frustrates me about it is when I was living in Seattle, we had a great yellow perch fishery. No one would touch it because everyone knows about this thing that you weren't supposed to eat more than like some number of months. But like, weren't you just ship faced the other night? Ask your doctor? How often should I get so drunk that I can't remember where I was? I can't even not more than four times. I don't pay attention to advisories because this box says the word the serge in general says, quit smoking now because it greatly reduces your risk of health. And that's not slowing you down, not a bit. Uh talk, Yeah, I talk about what Parker Hall's perspective on it. His perspective is if he was to be so lucky and to be such a good fisherman for the rest of his days, to catch so many fish that he would then poison himself and his family from feeding them so many of these fish. Then he will he and his family will die happy because he was such a good fisherman. You'll know he was a winner. He he had a lot of good days spent. Okay, uh, Mark, I hate you another dear one being in deer hunting country at all. The guy wrote in Wonderuness you know how there's this commonly held perception, probably true, seemingly true, that when you pressure dear they become nocturnal. They become increasingly nocturnal with pressure. You don't you don't like that? Yes? Is it a commonly held perception? Everyone here would agree that there's like a thing like you know, deer under more and more pressure do more and more move last during daylight. This guy has a great idea that I think, Well, i'm gonna tell you, Mark, I'm gonna give you a hot till. This is gonna change the white tailed world. Why not go out on your property and raise Holy hell at night all the time. I like it, and drive them diurnal. It's very interesting idea. It's a great idea. Those deer like bro I don't think ship at night. See you see the people out here? I wait till that sun is high in the sky, and then I go out into that field and catch a bite. Changing lives. What's that You're changing lives right there? That's interesting. And another dude about white tails wrote in Wondering um, if you could buy the app through the liberal application of dough and heat lure, you're in. If you could make the rut come earlier by by all the mimicry and making deers think they were missing out, well I'll say this. I don't know if you could or not, but I think that you could potentially instigated rock because I think bucks are can breed dose anytime. I think so that they're always the only reason. Yeah, well people are that way. It doesn't mean that perch oar. Well, yeah, but female like human females are ready all the time too. But no, that's a big thing. That's where they think. That's one of the things they think drove human monogamy was the I like a thing to drove human monogamy. That is that there's no like one of human female is receptive. There's no outward manifestation. It's not like a baboon or something, but there's an outward manifestation and it could happen at any point in time, it could happen throughout the year. So you didn't have, like humans to guard your reproductive partner. You couldn't be like a deer and be like, I'm out for eleven months, but I'll be back when the action happens. You had to like be and it and it's sort of and it sort of drove you know, like humans are kind of monogamous, and that's a thing that helped driving. I never heard that. But where were you in this? Oh? Well, the white you're challenging that a buck can. He's ready to go whenever. I know that right that the rut is triggered by changing levels of daylight, which then impacts rising levels into staster on a buck and estrogen in a dough. And so when the dough reaches that certain level, which is triggered only by the change in daylight, that then we'll bring her into heat, which then will allow her leads to her standing and a buck being able to make her. Would a buck be able to do that otherwise? If you could, if you could somehow? Now, I think there have been studies where they've put deer in control environments where they can change where they can control photo period and then have been able to change the timing of breeding within a closed facility on like lab deer. Basically, So if you could do that to a doll, but then have a buck just maintain regular status quo, would he breed her if she was standing in April because she thought it was the time ago? Maybe? Um, but I don't think that. Psychon, I'm out with a bunch of snort wheezes and about this, I'm gonna throw us something now. Then I don't expect anyone to really know us by know that a listener will know an email in if you were to capture a deer, capture deer here a buck, and in transport that buck to the southern hemisphere, how long would it take until he was shutting his antlers six months later? Now that it's a question, right, Um, I gotta follow up for you. Oh yeah, go ahead. Um, if any of you guys ever wish that instead of being year round like we have it that you could switch like rolls will say a bowl or the elk species have like a human run and just rolling like you know, early to mid September and hang out for about thirty days, fight and roll around a mud and tiss, get things done and then and then leave. What are you gonna do for the other eleven months of the year. I'm just asking if you don't make it during deer season, it would be like a wedding reception all the time. Man, It's it's such an interesting thought that we had. Never has a CCS got into the way we're in. It's just like this time of year when all of a sudden, like everyone's gonna breed now. It's highly competitive. There's no sense of allegiances. Dudes who just like beat each other to death. That's not gonna works. It's like five beta alpha and stuff like that. Right, Okay, one last one. I'm never gonna play seeing through the bullshit? Uh, reincarnated? Did I preview this one with you guys? Reincarnated? I didn't read the whole email, so I don't think I got this email. Come in. I didn't read the whole thing, so I didn't see the dude the email to us about this, Oh you could be reincarnated as an animal? What do you go with? Oh? Yeah, you did some platter, Thank you? Mine is big old bull out man. Really, everybody trying to shoot out. I want to rip one big old bugle. I want to urinate down my leg, freaking destroy some trees. Ship You don't care how bad I want juke some dude, like, make him follow me down the mountain for three miles. They just danish. But you like the last question. You just had to climb a mountain and I even seal it. Yeah, it'd be nice ripping the bugles. Be cool at sh man, do your do your way far off elk bugle albody, get ready. This is a bugle way far off where you're like so off you barely You want the kind where you're like you can't even tell if you heard it. That's when he barks at you. So you've come back as the lab An eagle. You come back as a bullet, ripping up trees and bugling. I'd roll flying squirrel man, because have you ever won? Because I want like, squirrels are cool, but I want people shooting at me. And have you ever felt the soft tummy on a flying squirrel? It is un islmost like velvet. The most unbelievable picture yourself every night kicking back? Was it calling man? Just like when you're you don't know when you're laying in bed and you and you and you're like you move your legs to get to a fresh zone or whatever. Just the feeling of myself as a flying squirrel. Yeah, you can get a little bit of that eagle feeling. Every now and then I wake up and be like, jeez, do I feel good? Like I mean, I feel good? Yeah? Loon, loon, loon. Then you can fly, you can fish. People like him. Yeah, I know what she say. You get to make that cool noise out of the late fly out at night just over the head. You hear like making that loon sound. Yeah, our dad called muck loon ship. It was like bad muck deep muck. Was that that's a good animal? S they probably live long. What are you gonna roll with, mark? Ah? I what a very different direction than you guys. Um. I was thinking, like first, like a wolf, I like to hunt, But then I realized I'm not really a pack animal. I'm much more kind of like a curmudgeon that would want to sit in a tree by myself and wait and watch mountain. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm gonna stick with the game birds thing because that's everything I do and um, so you're gonna live about a year and a half. It's gonna be a good year. And you know it's like why hitting some brush like there's like everyone knows, like technically in some cases geese mate for life. And uh, I was telling you earlier today, how uh bob white kaya will she'll lay your eggs, get together with the male. It's fertilized her, you know, bread with her, leaves him to watch the eggs, and she goes off like my first wife and does it again. But the ringneck pheasant is I want to be gaudy. I want to have a big rooster crow and I don't want to be I want to I don't want to be monogamous in the next life. I want to be I want to have all the ladies and have no responsibility. And if you're an elk, you gotta take care of all them women at the same time. That's just want to I just want to run around and crow again. And all right, y honest, Uh, let's tell pull up who's coming the person my mom picked, Yes, we do that first, well, and then that person because they might pick the underdog. It's gonna be an hour until they get down here. It's gonna feel in it, and then we'll explain how how it works. All right, So the person that is sitting in this seat, if you would like to please come on down to the stage and you're gonna play seeing through the bullshit presented by Vortex with us. It is the balcony right center. Okay. Does everybody know which section that is? If you're out there, it should say on your ticket. Okay, you guys know you are in balcony right center and the seat is M three. Okay, So here's how so are are We wanted to do the game and our bodies of Vortex help us out by creating a gift that we can give out. Do I have all the right here? So you get these here? Uh brands picketing new ten by forty two fiery binoculars, stuped up, stuped up high in binoculars. Well they got they gotta built in laser range finders. So as you have your binoculars and I'll carry a range finder. He's got the range finders in there, so you hit the button the range find stuff. We're messing around and we were zapping. Uh. We we were able to range find deered over a thousand yards. We were messing around with these, So you get these for seeing through the bullshit and playing the game. Now the game is this. We're gonna tell you two. We're gonna tell you a thing that's true, but you're gonna have to pick it out from two things that are not true. Where's the person? I think he's repelling? Oh? Are you coming down? Come on? Come on? You have a peak for him? Up? Hop on up? Are you fired up? Or do you wish you weren't doing it? You're fired up? What's your name? Rick? Meet you? Hey? Can we have a Actually you passing that chair? Thank you? I wish we put rack right there anywhere, but let me put you in the middle. Right. So, Rick, you're gonna hear a thing that's true and two things that are not true, and your job is to suss out the true one. You want to go first. You want to give him the true one first. It's in with the true one, like like that Princess bride thing. Um. So I guess one of the I was reading about this and it was published last year and the the journal Wildlife Management. I guess one of the one of the age old questions in white tail management is how they avoid inbreeding and UM, it seems like particularly president like with habitat fragmentation that do you're getting confined to smaller areas and there the populations you got these meta populations that aren't linked. So UM people have always wondered how they don't suffer inbreeding depression. So uh, these this group of UH social social scientists and and behavioral cologists from Michigan State took some detailed observations took some detailed observations on white tail does and it turned turns out that um, not only do they uh segregate from their first siblings and there and their first and their male for siblings and first and second cousins, like they become spatially segregated from them during the rut, but they become highly aggressive towards them when when they do encounter them. So I got because I guess the the male relatives are our our our keen to make like unlike humans, they don't mind because siblings but also first and second cousins. Yeah, did a dough can detect. Yeah. There's a case study part of the paper where they talk about a few incidences where they've caught um. The dough is actually trying to nip off the testicles of Okay, that's dog right, dog rick the hell they get done. Mh, I'm gonna take you back to Okay. There are a couple of promoters around Niagara Falls and they get this idea that how how they can raise up some money and they buy an old schooner, like a barge schooner, and they figure, you know what people would really pay a lot of money to see is if we filled it full of zoo animals and ran it over Niagara Falls to its destruction. And so they get some bears, they get geese, they get a buffalo, They put dogs and cats on it, and it doesn't really work. As the bears jump out and swim to shore, everything else goes over the falls. It's rumored at the first creature besides the fish to ever survive the fall over Niagara Falls was was a goose. And it's estimating the popular estivating the number of people that came to see this happen is as difficult as Trump's inauguration, but it's estivated. Between five and thirty thousand people came to watch this menagerie that came to watch this menagerie of animals go over Niagara Falls to their death. Best estimates put it at ten thousand people gathered to watch this happen. But you haven't heard the last one. Yeah, I'm gonna readmind right out of the newspaper article. Last summer, a new Indiana state record law argemounth bass was caught, eclipsing the previous record, which was a fourteen pounds six ounces basses caught by Jeffer Schultz, which had stood for twenty years on a neighborhood pond in Bloomington, Indiana. An eight one year old Graham A Carol Lundbergh took her seven year old grandson Jackson fishing. She forgot the babe. Carol picks up a cigarette button and puts it on the hook. I guess you thought it looked like a worm. She cast it out, passes Roger, a grandson, and he immediately drags up a toad. The fish is certified, it's sixteen pounds eight ounces, and it becomes the new Indiana state record large mountain. Just last summer. What's that bull That was bullshit? And you think that Steve is the true story? Like absolutely certain you got. You're the first guy to ever win. Man. Have you heard the story before? You never heard any before? You never heard that story before? What was it? The game of away? Good job, man, work man, Thank you for coming up. Everybody else, hold on, what what what? What? We forgot something? Yeah, you're forgetting something very important. There's a giant merge table out my system. Man, Thank you very much. With that, love all you guys very much.