00:00:00 Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater podcast recording in Hell. If they had decided to go, and they should have, if you really wanted to scare centers, you would have had it be cold and wet rather than hot and fiery. Yeah. I think Hell should have been cold and wet would be less people in it. The Hell we're in right now is Southern Prince of Wales Island. It's a very big island. It's like the by some definitions, the third largest island in the US. It's about half the size of Hawaii. Island has about four times the coastline um hundred sixty inches of rain, a significant proportion which we're logging right now. We're on a blacktail deer hunt. We've had one chunk of about five or six hours, which I would call productive hunting, out of three days. Uh. We're stuck right now in a seek outside tep tent. We call it personal like the t he TP for reasons I'm not gonna get into. And we're just waiting for the wind and rain to clear up. And it's just awful here with Brian the Kid Callen Yeah, Joan, Yeah, I'm thinking. Actually, the only I'm thinking about is um when they're gonna be able to get the seaplane in here to get me the hell out of here. You know, I was thinking that until I got that fleece liner from my sleeping bag. I'm a new man. I'm good to go. Dude. We started a fire last night. The fire was a huge moral boost. Steve and I dried out my sleeping bag. My sleeping bag was wet from that. In the fleece liner. And the fact that for about two seconds I had a scope on a buck yesterday, for two seconds, I saw that sucker in the scope. It's amazing how rejuvenative that is. That means that if anything had gone differently, if he had stayed there, if the cameras were on him, if he didn't get spooked, he got spooked, he took off. We don't even know what spooked him. But we could have shot a deer last night. Yeah, we could have cooked him over that fire. You know. I later realized it would have been very difficult to get down and get that deer, but possible. No, Listen, I would have if I had to just get it, made a flight suit out of my rain We're I would have gone down there and got that. We would have figured it out, but we were on a cliff to That was one thing that was kind of scary, you know, it was reminiscent of it was reminiscent of your first deer. Yeah, we shot off a canyon rim. Yeah. So we're we're at We're landed on a lake here at ft above sea level, and this this area we're gonna get a tremendous amount of snow and uh in May. Still it's these mountains are snow cap They start to melt off in June and July, and when that happens, there's a lot of new growth, new plant growth, and blacktail deer will migrate up into the high stuff and they'll come up two thousand feet three thousand feetle They can get at it and live up there until things start to turn and the weather starts to turn, at which point they'll migrate back down and they rout down more a little closer to the water. We're later. We came up here later than than than we should have. Ideally we would have come up here, you know around August. Um you still got good weather. The deer is still very high up probably been good. I've come up here as late as September and had a pretty good hunting. We're into early October and it's it seems like there's a ton of sign where deer have been in here, but I just get the feeling like some of the animals, you know, significant portion animals have moved out. But yesterday we had like great weather. We liked up from here maybe five ft we woand up seeing uh six deer, saw one buck. I was super optimistic and then it's just the weather just collapsed us again. It's just been it's just it's kind of tough and and a little bit miserable. But the fleece liners are nice because they don't when your bag gets wet, the fleece liners still feels fresh and nice. Yeah, fleece line is huge changes the game. Fires changed the game too. Yeah, fires a morale, but are a morale boost. Yeah, yeah, that that had a huge impact. You know. I was determined yesterday to get a fire going. So I started gathering up little tiny twigs, and then Mike and I started sawing little pieces that looked like they might be able to be cooking. And then Doughty figured out that you could light free Do's on fire, and they light on fire really good, and so Doughty really actually started the fire off. He got a little we found a piece of cardboard box and he put the free do's in the box. Yeah, and then we lit that on fire, and then we staffed a little twigs on fire. Before you know, we had an actual fire. You should sell fire kids, do you where it's just like a ox holfritos, Hold they're flame. It was fun. Man, last night was great. Just just having that was gigantic. So we got it's it's Sunday, supposed flat here on Tuesday. Honestly, I don't We wouldn't have a chance to really get out of here until Tuesday because the weather. There's no way you get a plane in here. Right now. We got gale force winds. Monday is supposed to be frequent showers, but sounds like it will be huntable Tomorrow, could be huntable tonight, Um Tuesday, we'll see. We might have a lot more hunting days in store. If the plane can't get in here, I will never ever, uh ever come back here. I don't think. I don't think what I don't think I'll ever come back to this spot. Yeah, this place sucksly, I definitely won't come back, won't I've come back in August. Yeah, I'd come back in August, but uh, I want to come back in early October. And the problem is so so the you know, we're we're doing obviously a film hunt for media or the TV show. And this is the third time we've been graced with the presence of Brian the Kid Calling and Joe Rogan. And the first time we hunted together, we went and hunted mule during the Missouri breaks and that was cold, but we were seeing deer, you know, we knew we were gonna get a deer. Then we went white tail deer hunt and that was ridiculously cold, but we were seeing dear lots of them. And this isn't nearly as cold, but just wet. But it's like it's just like sick of Blacktail deer hunting is this It's just a wet game. I don't know if people aren't into it where they're not into it because of the conditions were because they don't have giant, big, sexy rats, you know, well, sick of blacktail aren't really into it either because we haven't seen any. So I'm gonna hang out in the woods. Yeah. Even the deer aren't into it. Yeah, yeah, even that they're like, oh this place sucks, Dan Dode, he knew, Dan, tell us a little bit about what you knew. We should explain why we're in this TV. Did you explain exactly what's going on outside while we're not out hunting? Yeah, we have right now, we have Gail. Well, there's three problems right now. The problem one is we have Gail forest winds, um, everything's moving and shaking, and the rain is is moving horizontal. Problem two is the rain, it's very wet out. Problem three is we're in a cloud. We're actually in a cloud, so you can't see any of the anyways, any appreciable distance to go out and hunt right now? Um, if you could remove either the wind or remove yeah, either the wind or the clouds, I think you could probably go out and hunt. But right now, I think you're not saying right out, you're wasting your time and you're just burning up dry close How many how many days supplies until we have started each other? If we do get stranded at it, if things get that bad, we would walk, Uh, we would walk out to my cabin. How long would that take? Would you guys, I have hold on. I have a tireless swagger. Because you remember your friend Joe was explaining how you have a hard time moving from point A to point because I have I move with the woods, I move with the lamb. You just don't move good. No, no, no, that's that's a mistake. What you're seeing is you're seeing I moved through space with minimum waste. If I didn't know better, I would say you have a neurological issue. No, no no, see, this is this is where you're wrong. What I'm doing is I'm I'm I'm shucking and driving and you have to do that to get through the vegetable. Looks like there's a hitch in your step, That's what it looks like. But I'm ducking, I'm up, I'm down, I'm moving around. I practiced my pot of your legs, they don't make like you don't have like a long stride. Liked that's too. I have a long torso when I have short Italian peasant legs. They're built to uh, to squat and dig and uh I that's they're built for poverty. Yes, yeah, I'm built for poverty and to carry sticks on my back and to be oppressed. But I get there. I get there. So yeah, with you guys, with you stepping and driving whatever you're doing, jumping and driv away from the woods, it would probably turn into an overnight er. I feel like I could probably leave at daybreak and get there by dark. Jeez, it's six miles. Six miles to Pitch. I ran I walked. I don't know how long we take you get there, Sles, it seems like nothing. We do it, like six miles. He's like, well, it's just it's a matter of clips. Yeah, it's a matter of clips. I forgot we got a satellite phone. Yeah, we'd be all right. We'd walk down, have Ron come get us. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, was that how far would that for him to make a run walk to where Ron would come get us. Oh, we would a couple of miles, A few miles so easy. Maybe maybe it'd be a bad few miles would be like the worst few miles you ever walked, would it be? It's doable. So this might be a real issue, Like we might really get stuck here because this wasn't supposed to be Today was not supposed to be like this Tuesday. Tuesday is going to clear up though, and you know how you now predictable Alaska forecasting. Tuesday is supposed to be sun raine, light wind. My suggestion is that the next break we get, we get a plane in here. Yeah, yeah, be smart without a doubt. Ye have to day. I got the phone in my pocket. We can make a phone call right now to PROMAC and see what they're availability is. As long as we're long, as we're doing this, I want I wanna um touch on real quick. I don't know. I was gonna say some stuff about flying hunting in Alaska, how tenuous it is because you can get stuck places for days. A friend of mine just went, you know, brand was on a cariboo hunt. They hunt. They were supposed to just go in for a couple of days. They went in a couple of days, shot five cariboo and then sat there for five days wait for a planning to be able to come get him. Wow. What's interesting is after you know, the N eleven terrorist attacks, there was a lot of guys they grounded all the flights. There's a lot of people that was like frying hunting season. You know, there's a lot of people sitting out in the woods who had flights scheduled to come get him, and then one day there's like no sound of aircraft. They have no idea what happened. There's no aircraft in the air, No one comes and gets them. Kind of weird few days. How many days was it before they too? You know, I was reading about a guy who shot a buffalo on the tent, supposed to get picked up on the eleventh and he said it's like, not only did his plane dot com, he said, just dead quiet, you know, because there's always aircraft noise in Alaska. You know what in places there's always aircraft noise. So that's a problem. The other problem is this is like, you know, a constant debate we Elwyes have because Joe Rod really wants to go into elk hunt real bad, and the constant debate we eyes have, or discussion we have is like what type of hunt do you want? And and Joe on the l sounds you just want to get out. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to suffer. So there's like like weird to the equation, know a do it yourself hunt? You're really open to haveven like like bad stuff like this happened like this, Yeah, I would say, this could happen on This could happen on a guy, This could happen on a guide and hunt perfectly well too. But it's just like it just seems to me like a do it yourself, a classic do it yourself public land hunt conundra. Yeah, if you don't listen to Dan Doughty, you're definitely gonna get yourself Doughty's voice of caution. What do you do about this episode? Now, this episode is largely unsuccessful. Yeah, we've been through it before. We'll make something out of it. This happens, he was all the time. But listen, the last two months we were on Now, we were out hunting black bears and it was just like a done deal. It was a skunker and then family got something. We just spent eight days looking for a moose kill one on day nine. It's it's just a thing. I'm not saying that's gonna happen this time, but it's just the thing that happens all the time. You have to wait it out and bear it out. Someone in the center right now is messing with a jet boil and he's getting a lot of strange looks. You guys are so distracted, couldn't figure out how shut it up. It was dead behind the plastic. Then. Anyway, I'm glad to hear you say that you'll never come here again, because I actually won't ever come back here. I promise you that, Like to what degree won't you come back here to this island? Probably the whole island? Yeah? Probably? And mess is July? Yeah never, Well, so what happened to our What about this spring when we go up with barbed up by Juno? That's not this island? Probably, I probably won't go anyway. Really, all right, so we just law. Not only do we have a bad hunt, we just law. As the producer, I do think there's something immensely satisfying about suffering in comparison to an easy hunt, where you know you're in a cabin and you go out and you wait and you shoot it here. I actually, what are you doing with that oatmeal? I'm keeping the sugar out. I don't need sugar. That's why they call me the kid. Let me see what you did? You know, sugar sits in my bottom. Some of that it's not water. We um this this hunt sucked. Yesterday was fine. I'll think you got Bryan Callen. Just let you know, Bryan Callen is as a side deal, you know, the little old meal packets. First, I want to give you a hunting trip. When you're hunting, you can just eat your oatmeal out of your oatmeal packet by just pouring water into the envelope and eating it out of there. You don't need the bowl. We learned that from one of the great this man i've ever met, Marty Shy to mantle wherever he is today. And Brian is digging around with you one of these packets right now, individually selecting out the oats and the belief that he is leaving the sugar behind and just getting the oats. Yeah I can, I did it. No, No, I just you left a bunch of oats and the bottle of the beg. Anyway, Um, it's it's it's all fun to suffer and everything like that. But it is two thousand fourteen, and we do know a lot about like where it sucks and where it doesn't suck. In the future, we would love to go hunting with you again. Let's go somewhere that doesn't suck. Let's go somewhere that has a lot of animals and doesn't suck. Everything I've done, and a lot of things I do in my life is a reaction to whatever happened lasts to me. Okay, so from this mistake, so we went here as a react action, like reacting against what happened last time we went hunting, which is like we're stand hunting for white tails. Okay, So I'm like, okay, considering that I want to go, we didn't go on to another stand white tail hunt. I wanted to go do something totally different. So now there's no way I would leave here and do something like this again. The next thing would be that we'd go to the desert. A desert. What can you ship in the desert? Us? This is a lots of your hunt, Like, who's deer have desert? There's a desert hunts for he really, I mean, it depends on how you define desert. It might not be like the Mojave, but I'm saying like an area that has less than thirteen inches of precipitation a here. So yeah, it would be we would do something totally different next time. And uh, And the reason I came back here is because it was it ended up the last time I was here. It was so beautiful on the last day that I just wanted to come back and experience more of that. But I screwed up. It is it is a really beautiful one. Have a break. I just hope you guys will give me their chance. Do the planes fly at night? No, of course we'll get another chance. I'm worried I'm not gonna be able to get back in time for this weekend. I have a lot of stuff I have to do next weekend. It would be a huge issue if I can't get back. We'll get back. I'll get my map out and I'll see what it would involve to. Uh what kind of hell we're looking at to get down the water? And then uh, Ryan later come around and get us. You still gotta get across the thing, but we can figure that out too. Across plant straight. We're just tough to get across. Well, what we gotta call and get a like we've been running off of something called a marine forecast, and then marine forecast a little bit hard to translate into what it means for you up into where we're at. What's the latest forecast for today? We in diminishing rain turning to showers. It's ten twenty. Can they fly when they're showers? No, the showers don't matter. It's just the ceiling matters. There's the wind and ceiling. So is it possible that we can get out of here today? M No, No way. May. Usually they're not gonna cross if you call them. Don't know if you they're not gonna cross Clarence like they're not gonna cross Clarence straight with much more than winds. Aren't you cheap skates? I know you cannot afford to listen to the Meat Eater podcast if it wasn't free, So you gotta pay your dues and listen to the following word from our sponsors. Please listen. If you want to go onto Elkhout where there's like guaranteed success um, that could be done. But I don't know what I would do next. I would probably want to take you either to hunt in the desert or I want to go up and hunt caribou on the north slope. Caribu on the north swop sounds like a great time. That sounds like a lot of fun I wanted to get. You can get stuck, but also you can get where you're You're probably gonna have hundreds of animals walk by every day, because that would be my reaction, you know what I said, Like I'm always reacting. I would be like, hey, not many animals now where we go see some animals hundreds right walking by. Well that sounds like a lot of fun. So that's what we'll go do next. That's a future hunt. But I would say I do want to return to one thing about black tail deer hunt just in general on the subject of hunting, there are a couple under under utilized hunts in this country. And I would say a lot of times people contact me like I really want to go do it do it yourself hunt. You know, I don't have a ton of money to spend, Like what should I do? As much as this sucks, I think that on these like in black tail sick of black tailed deer areas, there are many areas that just simply that go years and years and years that never get hunted. You know, Like if a guy is looking to go on a on a hunt and they want to do like a do it yourself public land hunt, I think that this is something that just doesn't get a lot of attention. A lot of guys when they go on they want to go on a hunt out west. They're they're focused on a handful of things, like a handful of glamorous things. But I feel like people should pay more attention to doing this. I feel like, uh, mule, you're hunting is a big thing that a fella can just go and do. But this, there's areas out here that will never be in our not in our lifetimes. There's areas out here that will go years and years and years and no one's ever gonna walk in them to hunt. But you've got to be just a little hardier than the average do it yourself. Or that's looking at that mule deer or elk hunt out west versus coming up and hunt and sickle black to a deer is on some rainy island. You've gotta want that next level of into your next level of experience. You've got to really want that, yeah, because it is the next level. You can't drive here in your pickup truck towing a trailer with you know, basically the kitchen saint behind you. No, but you would take a ferry up. You could take a ferry up to Prince Wales Island. Take a car ferry up to Prince Wales island. Have your truck on the road system, the same way guys do. Tons of guys do for black bear in spring. Get your truck on the road system, drive in and hike up into the alpine zone. Yeah, it's miserable, but it's like, if you want to do let me put this away. If you want to do a hunt where you won't see any other people, which is my favorite kind of hunt. I like to be that I'm the only guy in the area and I'm hunting deer. That you're doing or hunting game is acting like game and not that's acting like in response to people. It's just it's just a different experience. You can do that all day long here, all year long, in the long season August fifte January one four bucks per year. It's a good deal. I mean, we're not experiencing it right now. But this is the only real bad, sick of black tail hunt I've ever had. You can see that if the weather broke, this would be a paradise because some of those places yesterday, when we come across like some lake, like a little pond, it's like shankra Lott really is it really is like a paradise, Like you can't believe something's beautiful exists. But you know, we we filled our canteens off this waterfall and it was just I don't know it was. It was incredible and it was warm, and you came back and had a nude bath. I had a nude bath. And when I was on the mountain, I had my shirt off. And I wish you'd seen that. Because a goal, a bald eagle circled me. I think in reverence. I'm not trying to but but it did. It did, go, go go, And I was like, which is Native American for go with God? But it saluted me. I swear to God, it saluted me. I think I don't have proof, but he tipped up and he's not making this up. He was standing there, half buff and a bald eagle sword by it. It was a beautiful site. The bald eagle was a beautiful part of less because I'm so authentically American, but also because my back, my back is so feed out that they look like wings. They called me the eagle when you see me from behind? What why did you make that noise? Oh? And you guys, you guys saw a BlackBerry yesterday. I wonder if she's not up here trying to not get her cub killed Neaton, and she just kind of steers clear of all the bears made because because mail bears will kill a gubbu. Wow, Yeah they do, and they like do a lot of infant aside. Man, they say that um on Kodiak. When the boers come out, one of the primary things they eat is cubs, brown bear cubs. That's like, that's like they come out and that's what they're doing, is they're eating brown bear cubs before they start even saying. The big reason they do that is to actually make the female come back in the asters. Is that in there, I think a like a a person who's I think a scientist will tell you don't really know why they do that. I mean, they probably do that for food. But a result of doing that is that the female will then come into estros more quickly. So you run the risk of killing your own offspring. But the result is you have if you're around and it's in and she's in your area, she's gonna come back into Ester's you have a chance to breed her. But I don't know if the bear. I doubt the bear is making these calculations, the brown bear will actually eat its own I think they run the risk of that. They don't know, okay, because I mean lions lead, you'll kill lead, you know, but but they don't kill their own officer, you know, Like what like you guys ever hear the geneticist Stephen Gould he had to say when he wrote about where when we look at like we look at the natural world and everything we see, we go like, oh, it does that for this reason, right, it does have for this reason. So you might say, like, what's the selective or what's the adaptive advantage of having brown bark? Like, oh, the brown, the barks brown? Because whatever He's like, maybe there is no advantage at all to having brown bark. There's an advantage to having really thick bark because it can withstand forest fires, let's say. And as a result of becoming thick, it takes on a color that isn't a detriment, but it's not an asset either. It just happens to be brown, you know, And you look at and go like, oh, I want to be if to be that way for that reason. But yeah, a bear, I bet he's probably to keep because he wants to eat it, and he wants to get food. And in a advantage, like a hidden advantage of that, is it she comes into asters, he breeds. So maybe a board it's more likely to devour a lot of clubs, gets a lot more chances in his area to breed a lot more females. So I don't know how it rules out that he's not just killing his own offspite. Maybe he don't care. H At one time found a black bear that had shipped out. It was a black bear ship. He had shipped out a black bear cubs claw. Yeah, I have a coyote ship that shipped out of deer's hoof a fawn hook they found they found very d n a. And those wolves in Siberia, right, they were eating barren. What do you know about that? There's a special on wolves in Siberia. This giant wolves made. Yeah, they eats well, oh they must have been eating cubs. Not gone that. The whole story was that they were taken down grizzlies. But I'm sure they killed the cubs. Cubs maybe, yeah, I doubt a bear nonsense. Yeah, that when I found when I found that kyo, the kyle that shipped out the hook I started a whole animal ship collection. The guy, why did you keep this in your house? I would dry it on screens. I had a big coffee table made up with a glass top. I took a big giant coffee table and painted yellow like a National geographic magazine binding binder, and I built a three inch high lip around it, and then bought a big heavy chunk glass and laid it on so you'd be like drinking or whatever looking down on the glass top table. And it was recessed where I had many, and so we wound up having we had the Me and my brother were both like it. So we had like grizzly bear that have been eaten grass. We had grizzly bears have been eating white bark pine nuts. We had grizzly bear to be elp. I had like cotton tail rabbit, snowshoe hair jack rabbit. I had like summertime dear, winter dear. I mean I had mink, muskrat. I had had dozens and dozens of specimens. We'd rotate in and out, but I would dry it on screens. Then I would lacker it and absolutely olderless and just and it when laid out, I'm telling you I'm not tell I'm not telling you, just to sound like like it wasn't like a thing, like you're just doing it for It was a beautiful display of animal scant, but it's hard to maintain, like the stuff just you know, it's still kind of falls, gets too dry and falls apart, and eventually just got sick of it. But I had an amazing collection of animal scat. You got too much free time. Son. No how many how many pis animal scatter we seen walking around a lot, I left them all. Didn't have desire to even touch him. I never thought once about picking them up. Definitely wouldn't take them home without a doubt, wouldn't lacker them and have fucking breakfast looking down at animal ship. It wasn't gonna last. There's certain things in life. The scat collection be one. There's certain things life for everyone. Like if you tell someone about the scat collection, they'd be like you, But everyone who ever laid eyes on it would always say, I get it. That's an amazing collection. Everyone who ever never had someone was being nice to you. They're all crazy suckers who are over your house, gonna look at this dude collecting animal ship from all over the world. Let's just be nice to him and get the funk out of here and talk mad shit about his ship collection. As soon as we get out, I guarantee your friends are driving home. Some motherfucker's got three different kinds of rabbit, ship and kitchen and they're just driving home, laughing their dicks off, going fucking this. Here's grizzly merit. It's got grass in it, like this fucking guy's collecting it, packing it in his luggage carefully. He's got like bubble wrap around some ship and puts it in a bar. The fund is wrong with him. The one joke that everyone made, and I can tell your professional community you skipped it, was everyone would come look and they'd always have to say, like, I'll take a ship in there. Everyone would make that joke. The joke is something like that. But if you did have hunt in there, that would would completely human ship mounted on a special like like like a crystal orb so and an actual layer of shellac with nuts in it, nuts with nuts, and then I would have a sign underneath it that said Snickers could be funny Snickers. There wasn't a human that was eating McDonald's that's right. That's human ship. That's what it is. That's American human ship. Yeah, what, you only collected animals ship? Why don't you pick up some dogship from your fucking neighbor's yard while you're at it? Because it was because I got it out of the litter box. You could see the litter crumbs stuck to it, Athanic, I'll tell you why I did. Because I'm not. I'm not. I wasn't interested in that. Though. This is from a parakeet, this pigeon ship on my car. Now I'm meeting my breakfast over it. The funk is wrong with you? Because beautiful. It's the most beautiful I can under collection the bones. I can understand a lot of things I do not understand collecting ship. Well, you don't belong to my club having first meeting. Yeah, you're you're a little too deep in the animal world, my friend. Well, here's the thing too, though, it really uh if one wants to learn how to read sign it was a great way to study sign reading while you enjoy your coffee in the morning or doing commercial breaks. If you're watching too, you could be like this guy talked about detergent and I'm gonna brush up on my moose. You call it tube? You don't say when you're watching the TV, you go Corocier break. When you're watching tube. They don't have tubes anymore. They having that tubes. Seventies have flat screen like oh not in America, in Russia technology. Yeah, they're called the tube. Do you have They still have cabinets that they watched their TV. Do you have a turntables too? You look shopping for a needle? What's your fucking what's your super eight collection? Looks like you hear about this, you have some real to reels. You hear about something called antibiotics, all this crazy stuff. They even have internal combustion engines. Get with the times. Get what the fucking time when you're watching tube? But I'm drinking pop, I'm drinking staring at my ship collection. There it is. I'm smoking my jerky for the winter. And then I'm turning butter. My girl turn them butter. And it looks like we're gonna make it through the winter this time. Look some crows ship. Yep, I'm going I'm getting sick to fight ardia from the tent time. I think my trick of nos has killed the Jardia. Care about this new thing called toilets? No more ship in the pot for me. I'm we're saving up for a toilet. Apparently it's water y'all. Don't light your toilet paper on fire anyway. Thank you for signing in a ship. Oh no, I was thinking about talk about something different. It's so funny. By the way, that's a ridiculous saymentella, it's an original on the ship. Note we all often had more than once. I had clients who came from the east. White tailed deer hunters came out to do an elk hunt, and they would bust out a ziploc bag on you, and you'd see them collecting, not because they were gonna play inside their coffee tables, but because incense. No incense either if it wasn't good, lights on fire. Brotherly uses incense, mouse ship or incense. Willow what smells amazing? Man? What? Because they all they eat is willows mostly so it's a very willow thing that just smolders. But it wasn't good. It smells like sweet right you ever had someone burst sweet grass? Mudge? No shits good ship? Anybodies you're saying, these guys they want to eat. You know what they would do. It was for a practical joke on their buddies. So they would collect elk droppings are what four or five times sides of the average, right, those droppings, So they would sneak into their buddies deer stands and then drop this, you know, zip on back full of elk shit, you know, and then wait for the phone call from his buddy going, dude, you won't believe it. There is a monster buck man. Their streak rong to my area. This is a common sight. I wouldn't say it wasn't common, but in ten years of guiding, I probably saw it half a dozen times. You know, I wasn't telling him to do it. They would just all of a sudden, you know, drink, finish their gatorade and start packing their gatorade bottle full of elk kords just to pay practically joke. That's hilarious. Maybe maybe my friend one time was on a bunk bed they were touring. He was in a group and he, uh, his buddy was hungry, and my friend took a ship on top of the bunk bed in a flight and then put a plastic fork and knife in and then hand it down to his budding said, are you hungry now? And I think that at forty seven, the fact that I still think that's hilarious is uh, you know, proof positive that I really haven't evolved. Just so I'm clear on this, he like, did it just to be like to disswade his hung Yeah, he just took a She was like, oh, there's a paper plate and at four, who hasn't done that? I'm gonna ship in that paper plate and I'm gonna I haven't. But I'll say this, man, as much as I like animal I would say that as much as I like animal scat, I hate human excrement more than the average person. This is not like an excrement thing. I never heard. I don't do. I never played like I don't like like you're not even ship in other words, yeah, I don't like it German ship videos, etcetera. No, I just I don't want to. I want to clear that up. I'm just interested in animals scat just as a as trade craft as trade craft. Has never said anything. Probably I haven't spent atmost time, but he's never saying I don't think he's ever saying. Really that I didn't find somewhat interesting one way, or that you have a lot of interesting things to say. Oh thanks, sweet you to do smart guy. All right, everyone, I know you're enjoying the Meat Eater podcast, and you're especially enjoying it because it's free, and to keep it that way, we've got to take a quick break to thank our sponsors. Steve, do you feel sometimes like a little alienated in the world of hunting. You're a very well read guy, You're very articulate, and the show that you have is very different than a lot of the other hunting shows. You know, not to put anybody down specifically or in particular, but a lot of what hunting television is is very low, low vibration. It's very dull, it's very obvious. It's like there's a lot of dimwitted people out there making hunting shows. And you know, I can I've watched them just because I enjoy watching hunting um for whatever reason. But there's not a lot of shows like yours. You know, there's not a lot of shows where you have interesting narration. You're obviously well read, You're you know, you're you're you. You're very thoughtful in your approach, not just a hunting but in creating a hunting show. But that's you know, you're like an island in a sea of mediocrity. Yeah, that's a little bit hard to speak to you. But I don't. I haven't watch I honestly haven't watched a lot of hunting shows, you know, And um, so I don't. I never like to do a hunting show. I wasn't thinking that I was. I never thought of it as a reaction against hunting shows. And the other thing is the people that I work with, you, you know, I bring like a small like I have influence on the show. There's a handful of people that have a ton of influence on the show and they never watched hunting shows. So I think that it's not that it's not that anyone ever said like, oh yeah, we're gonna do a different type of hunting show. I think it just really came from scratch that people just said, like, what would be a good show, what would be entertaining, and it happened that way. Now I'm afraid to watch and hunting shows a little bit because I have this thing you hear about, you know, I think it's the express The term doesn't make sense to me, but anxiety of influence. This is something people say where I have a hard time reading contemporary writers writing about the subjects that I'm interested in because I'm so worried about losing track of what was my I'm worried about losing track of my worldview and having to be over the influence by other people's worldviews stand up, Like, I'm really careful about listening to a lot of stand up because stuff can creep in. Yeah, there's a lot of people Norton won't watch any stand up. Yeah I understand that. I'm the same way. I won't very rarely watch even But I feel like everybody's influenced, You're, you're, We're all influenced by the people that came before us, and I'm not worried about losing my authenticity. What do you feel like all you did all day was like, let's say, okay, you're like you're very successful, like just amazing. Let's say all you did all day was watch other commentators, Well that's comment on UFC. Do you feel like comment on fighting and you're like, I want to learn how to comment on fighting, so I should study all the fighting commentators or do you feel like that would be that would open you up to mimicry, which would fail. No. See, that's it's a different sort of a situation because there wasn't really that many people that did it before me. So with my style of commentary is very different than any other sport because I didn't really have it. I mean, there was a couple of guys that had done it before me, but not much. And you know they, you know, they didn't have the amount of time in it that I do. So I've been doing it for so long, and I've been doing commentary for the UFC since two thousand two. I started That's when I started doing the commentary. But I started doing post fight interviews for the UFC in nineties seven, so the sport was in its infancy and I came along. When there's a lot of guys that imitate me. For sure, they sound exactly like me, But I don't mind. I consider it like a form of flattery, I guess, but it's also, um, you know, I'm doing it the right I don't know, I guess the right way. I mean, is there a right way? I don't know if there's a right way. But will you take yourself completely out of it. It's not like a lot of guys doing It's not like basketball. It's like twenty guys doing commentary like this, only like, here's a guy named Jimmy Smith, he does bellator. There's a couple other guys out there that do commentary. It's very few boss routing, very few guys are doing it. So I don't have to worry about that, you know. I had the thing happened to me like when as a writer, when I when I was starting and writing, when I was in graduate school, I read what I consider be the greats, you know, the great nonfiction Writer's, a great narrative nonfictionary, and then I got where I I understood how that kind of how those stories work and how you put a book together. Then I just really turned my attention to my own projects that I wanted to write about and just read source material, primary source material, you know, so not so reading scientific journals, you know, academic stuff, historical accounts, historical journals, and just pulling from that things that hadn't been interpreted by anybody yet, or they've been interpreted by many people, but I wasn't reading it through the lens of another person like me, and I and the first book I wanted to write. I wanted to write a book about the Great Lakes, Okay, where I grew up. So I spent about a year. I moved from Montana back to the Great Legs. My dad had just died. I took his truck, rigged it up for camping and just drove around, camping all around the Great Legs and reading source material. And I wasn't gonna read anything that any contemporary person wrote about the Great Lakes. And I built up a bunch of things that I that I found out about the Great Lakes that I had never heard anybody say. I've never read it, and I was like, this will be this could be a great book. One of the things I found out was that this guy one time bought a bunch of animals from a zudos closing, down loaded him on a barge, and charged hundreds of people a dollar apiece to watch him send the barge of animals over Niagara Falls. Yeah so their death, Okay, So I was like, that's interesting. Another interesting thing I found out about that I read about the Great Lakes is that when after Joseph Smith was killed in Illinois, the Great you know, the Mormon founder he was killing in Illinois, and there was a power struggle between Brigham Young, who wanted to go out of Salt Lake City took his fathers out of Salt Lake City, and a guy named James Strange who had just a handful of followers and took his followers up to an island in Lake Michigan called Beaver Island, declared it an independent state, and started to resort to piracy what he felt was him collecting taxation owed to his sovereign nation for people transporting goods around Lake Michigan. And then he was later shot to death by his own followers. So I'm like, I'm gonna write a book that's gonna have all this stuff, and then no one knows about. And then one day this book comes out called No This book comes out called the Great Lakes, and the author's first name was a guy named Jerry. And I read the book and it had in there the handful of things that I thought I held on too. Okay, with all the respect this guy, I don't think it was. I don't think it's a great book. I called a friend of mine and was complaining about it, and he said, you know, I can't think of one good book ever written by a guy named Jerry, but which is a little bit funny. So it was the book. I quit my project. I stopped doing it. I didn't write the book. I moved act in Montana, completely depressed as a writer, completely defeated. Because I allowed myself to be like, oh, someone else found these things out, even though he didn't handle it the way I would have handled it. It was like I couldn't do it anymore. And from then on, I've been much more careful about um, much more careful about what I allowed to come into my head, you know, because it's for me just as a person who likes to create material. UM, I have like a certain sensitivities man, you know, and and and so that's one thing like I try not to I watched a lot of TV, but I don't watch any TV that would have anything do anything I would ever be involved with, which makes me a lot of ways really behind the times. But it's just like a defense mechanism, you know. Hunter Thompson, when he was learning how to write, would write The Great Gatsby. He would literally write it word for word to get the rhythm, the music of the language. Like he would like you write the entire book. So I've read that and thought about doing it many times because there's some things like there's some passages that you just can't imagine that someone ever wrote, and I can see that it's be like almost therapeutic to do it. But I don't think of that like they're, you know, like twentieth century writers. I don't think of it as a contemporary writer. For me, it'd be something I guess like stuff that's been written in the last ten twenty years is very difficult for me to read, unless it's if it has something to do with what I'm talking about, unless it's by like an anthropologist or something someone who's not who's not a professional act translating information and turning it into entertainment and turning it into Yeah, people who are skilled at taking technical information and making it entertaining, I'm very afraid of. It's probably it's probably what people technical information and turning it into entertainment, like I'm I'm afraid of. It's almost like it's artical novelists. You're not going to get the real history necessarily, even though they can they can touch on the history of a subject like if you read me on yours or someone like that, great writer. But if you if you want to read the history of like say, the Founding of Israel, which he wrote, which is what Exodus is about, you don't want to draw your historical knowledge from that book. But that's not what he's saying. He's worried about his influence. You checked out. You weren't even paying I was. I was listening. I was listening. I know what he does. He gets a d D on you and he val and you want to tell you about a book that he read so he can name drop the title. I hear what he's saying. But he said it's based on some ancient knowledge. No, but he said, he said technical information into um. I just told you when you forgot you weren't paying attention. You funk. I caught you. I know what the funk happened. I've been following the No no, no, no no. You were not listening to what he was saying. You were totally taking out of context. You know exactly what you were just doing. I wasn't. I wasn't busted. What was he saying? What was he talking about? Just before that? He's very careful about what gets into his head in other words, in other words, after the experience of the Great Legs and writing that book, I'm saying, when you read the book that wasn't good by the guy and he came back, you roll the present. He's scrambled right now. Look at him doing it. I was following it because it's kind of relevant to the struggle you have when you try to be a writer or a stand up comic or whatever. It's the same issue where you have to become very guarded about influence and also in a way what you think about. That's what I thought. It was really interesting. That's what I thought what you said was really interesting because I think it's very relevant. People through sort of sort of little know. You can tell I'm listening when I'm not saying it. He pulled through because I pull through because I said something. No, no, no, I was heart You're usually right, but this time I was actually falling. Do you feeling standard? Can? Do you watch a lot of standard? I love stand up comedy. Yeah, I watched a lot of stand up com Do you ever find yourself saying like or not? Do you ever catch yourself adopting someone else's methods? No? No, but because I've been doing it so long. But when I first started out, yeah, definitely, when I was when I was young, I was an open micro. I would catch myself sounding exactly like certain comedians. I remember one time I was on stage and I heard myself sounding exactly like this guy. Richard Jenny, who was a very funny comic that a lot of people don't know about, committed suicide a few years back. And uh, she just was very depressed for a bunch of different reasons. But I think one of his reasons for besides clinical depression, was that he just was never recognized for the great comic that he was. Like in the nineteen eighties, he was one of the best comics alive for like a few years, really funny guy. And I caught him then when I was first starting out, like like around that's I started out in eighty eight and he was just a monster back then, and for whatever reason, history didn't didn't recognize him. Is great as he was so much of comedy's rhythm to like, I have to be careful if I'm going to perform and somebody has a rhythm. I really liked davidof has a specific rhythm I really like, so I can't watch him because I'll fall into that rhythm. I know famous comedians who won't I won't say who, who have been directly influenced by you, or really well known comedians do really well and they do like they'll do the girl. When you do a girl like exactly like you, it's not so much their fault. They obviously we're looking up to you when they were younger, and now they're doing it, and it's just an interesting You gotta kind of you gotta be aware that what I get paranoid about is being so influenced by a bit that it will find its way into my stuff. So I don't. Yeah, but I did a thing about bees and cars and yeah, and and and Justin Kenny had done something really funny ones and I came said, hey, dude, you so you know I'm doing anything. I'm bes and cars, but it's different. And I went through what I was doing and I realized I had been way more influenced than I thought, and I said, I stop doing that, you know. So it's just it's weird when you take a guy on the road with you and then they open up for you, and then they start doing you. That's strange. I've had to stop taking guys with me, having to stop working with guys because they're like they're basically doing me before I do me. That's weird because like young guys and they're starting out, especially like they're really super easily influenced and they want to be successful and so they're kind of struggling a little bit and they see you go on and kill it, and then they're like, funk, I gotta do what he's doing. And so they start doing what you're doing. And then they start adopting subject matter, and that's when it becomes problematic because they start stepping on some of your material. Like if you're doing like even obscure jokes, you know, doing a joke about a jet boil canister, they'll start talking about jet boils. It's a real problem. And sometimes they do it on purpose. Sometimes guys do it, especially guys who are like spiteful. They do it because they want to sort of mess up your punch line, so they take out the surprise element of your subject matter. They'll it's called stepping on your material. That's what everybody calls it. So like they'll like say, if you have a joke about King Kong, they'll do they'll talk about King Kong before you do your joke about King Kong, purposely to try to tank your material, knowing that you're gonna know that that's doing on purpose. They're doing it on purpose. That's just a weird thing about How is that not just like sabotage. How's it not like cutting off your dick despite your balls? Man, Well, they're they're just being they're just sabotaging themselves because you're there, they're opening for you. Yeah, it doesn't matter. They're they're in the moment. When they're in the moment on stage, all they care about is trying to mess up your set. Like just there's some guys that are influenced, and there's some guys that are doing it on purpose. They influence guys. It's a problem, but it's not as big as a problem as the saboteurs, the guys who are trying to sabotage your sets. Like That's one of the reasons why I always take people on the road with me, because if you show up in a town and there's like local acts, like local acts are the worst. Like you're in Pittsburgh for instance, and some fucking guys opening for you, and he goes on the first night, he does his material, then you your material, and in the next night he does a bunch of subjects of the same subjects as you. And you can tell these are like loosely pieced together bits and he probably constructed last night just to try to funk with your act man. Yeah, just because yeah, because they're fucking jealous. You know, they're like good good. That's one thing that you'll see all the time in young comics. Young comics. There's some comics who were leving like reverence for comics that have been around a while, and there's some comics that are the opposite. They're like that guy is not even that good. That guy sucks that guy, And those the guys you have to watch out for because those guys a lot of times are delusional and they will try to sabotage your act. You know what, Like mimicry is tough because it's probably ones. I mean, there's only so many things, you know what I mean, Like you said, like a jet boil is pretty specific, but I imagine it's you can always claim it. It's like a joke about a guy and a girl getting a fight in a car. You know, it's playing like, well, how can you claim to home that. I remember when we started out, when we started making and Wild. Then right away we had this guy who was really pushing, very aggressive for a while, that he had had his ideas stolen because he had done this thing where he goes down to a river bank and they catch a fish, and he's got a table and a white tablecloth and stemwear and stuff on it, and then he proceeds to cook this fish and serve it like fine dining style on a gravel bar. It was just adamant that somehow we had stole his ideaous It's like helmet, you had the I you patented, so to speak, the idea of catching something and eating it you get, you get scripts had it. Somebody sent me a script, and then another guy sent me a treatment, and both of them with it came a form I had to sign, an anti plagiarism format, said him. I go, guys number one, here a couple of things. One is ideas or a diamond doesn't any idea thought people thought of. It's a question the execution of the idea, which is a whole Another thing. A second of all, that's very amateurish. The idea that you know, I'm protecting it with this document and stuff like that. Well that's but first of all, before you see you further, I know dudes who have been ripped off. I know guys. I know a guy who fucking sent a script to Servester Stallan's company. They ed no go ahead because the guy eventually had to get credited for it. He sued and gotten one. They made the movie, and then after they made the movie, he won the case that they had to put him in as the writer ship. Did you get good money? I don't know. I mean, it's something that happens on a regular basis. They would rather you fight them in court. They take your idea and if they win, they don't have to pay you, and if they lose. It's it's common. It's common. It's common that you would bring a script to a production company or a big actor and it's a part of the business. Or you just sheel your premise and they just rework. It happens all the time. You can show premises. Yeah, you can pitch your show to a network and then there they're coming up of their own version of it, and ideas moved so much from the point of intent to what you actually wind up with that it probably after a while you probably feel like, if you're the steeler, you probably get the feeling like we've taken it so far now that it has nothing to do with the original idea. But then one could turn around and steel it yet. But that was the foundation, man like that set you into an act of building on and creating. So in some way you still owe me even though your stuff I made a you wound up with I, but you wouldn't have gotten to I without my a. One of the biggest things that that that lawyer isn't always to deal with is exactly that where somebody have an idea, then they get together somebody else as a producer, then they hire a writer who has a track record. Now the writer and the producer take it and it becomes a completely different animal. But the guy who's originated not only the connection between the two and the whole idea is left out because he's not really that relevant anymore because and then they changed its idle love it and then he gets cut out completely. You know, they they're always there's always that possibility. It's a big possibility in a movie like that. And I don't know what I can say it, but lord, yeah, And and what happened was that the original writer, when I put the writer and director, my friend and the director together, they just took it and went completely different. I mean, it's not a word that was originally written about it in there really, besides maybe I think the character names or something. But he got credit. It went to arbitration and zag the screenwriter's guild gave him credit. Yeah, it does happen. It does happen. You know, it's it's it's tricky. You know, plagiarism is dirty businessman, and it's it's common. But they also influence, like just accidental influence is common as well. You know that that does happen. Very'm not sure, you know, I wanted there's a point I wanted to make. When you're talking about stand up, it really has not to do with people stealing people's ideas. But I think one thing that releases that's your comedy, apart from a lot of comedians I've seen, is um, I'm not trying to explain it to cult people at various times that so many comics have a thing where their position is self loathing. Like that they're humors based on sort of a self loathing. They turn self loathing into humor. And one thing that's is kind of remarkable about your stuff is that, like somehow you have comedy that comes from a position of strength, which is difficult. Probably like you don't You're not up there putting yourself like here I am this miserable, sad sack, you know, which is great funny stuff. And a lot of the communities I like, like I think, like like Louis c. K is a lot of like I loathe myself, you know, Norm McDonald like a lot of his funny stuff is like I loathe myself. I'm the punch line. But you have like you're you're able to like make comedy from another like a from a person, like as a person who obviously doesn't loathe themselves, you're still able to be funny when it seems like that's a very quick avenue to humor. Yeah, but this is humor. There's so many avenues to humor. It's humor is just here's the world through my eyes. If you really think things are funny, you could figure out a way to translate that to an audience, and when someone is sitting there watching you, what comedy really is is like a form of mass hypnosis. It's like you tune those people into what you think is funny, and if it works, everyone's laughing along with you. But if you lose the script at all, if you lose the feeling, or if you're saying things that you don't have any attachment to do, they fucking smell it. Man, They're animals. They're like, there's something wrong. The words are coming out correctly, the punch lines are delivered with the right amount of pause. But I'm not buying it, and they don't buy it. But if it's what you think is funny, it's all like if you genuinely think something's funny, and you can figure out a way to to concoct the words and arctick reulate the ideas, you know, there's no real there's no real like pattern that every comic comes still follows. But a lot of comedy comes from a point of of real serious insecurity. That's where a lot of comedians come. My trouble with girls, my wife, yeah, my trouble with my physical appearance, yeah yeah, And then people can relate to that because also people like the person on stage who's demanding all their attention and time. They like that person to kind of be a loser so that they don't feel bad about them not being the person that's getting all the attention, especially men on dates. Men on dates do not like like a handsome, good looking guy delivering me, like a Chris d'eliah type character on stage or what was his name? No, not that, what's the guy who went on stage? They's almost too good looking, went on stage with Dane Cook all the time, and the tourgasm. Gary Goldman. Gary Goldman is like six two six three huge, six six six okay, handsome, it's fuck perfect sculptured features and you know, just nobody wants to see that. Man. That's a good point. Man, I ever thought of that. You take your take your lady out and she's like, wow, this guy's amazing. Yeah, beautiful, fucking giant, handsome man. Yeah, it's better like a guy up they're a big fag out of there, talk about how he can't get a hard, bald, fucking shitty sneakers on. That's what I want to see, some loser that my wife has no interest in fucking if you are going to make like like if you're if you're gonna talk about being good, look at all you gotta you gotta kind of be like every man like me, Well, like I'll pick up a stool. You were just telling us yesterday how objectively you're the best looking man. I am, but I'm talking about I perform with a shirt on in this party, this group right here. You're saying, I think I probably if you had like Nassy come in and say, like, who's the best looking man has the best physical harmony and everything? He thinks that it's him. I don't know what he thinks that n that women more women will want to breed with Janice, even though Joanna isn't the best harmony person. Honest, the best looking guy. Look at his Look at his legs. He's got legs for days, He's got he's got beautiful hair. It's graying slightly, but it's mostly blonde. So that's kid. This thing is that he will actually think about that. Am I the guy in this room that a woman who wandered in would want to fuck like? He really liked wonder. That's ridiculous, he really does wonder. That's a ridiculous thing. Do you think that you've like concocted your humor as a response to trying to make women as happy as possible with H my my, I thank god. Sometimes I really spend an inordinate amount of time you did forty seven. It's funny wishing I was. I. Look, that's the difference you me and you, me and you my My humor is once the one guy works so hard to get the girl and then they go off. I make fun of those fus. Yeah, I get everybody else together and go check this ship out like this fucking dummy. Good good luck with the rest of your life with her. You've been fucking painting an act together, slopping together some bullshit more in her own personality. For me, it's more than women though. For me, it's more like the idea of everybody, like like, I've been thinking about the fact, you know, just just bone density or just like to I want to be Does that mean sink faster than first time? You have more scaffolding for muscle, and I want to be part of me dies every day. Bone density means it would sink faster than what actually means the thickness of the bones, the bones like that, how much marrow there is, so that how how thick the bones are themselves. You can actually change your bone density with heavy weightlifting, but actually have more first with high bone density, a graham of their bone ways heavier than So it doesn't mean like how big it is, just how density. Here's where the miss conception comes from, the variables. It's very slight. It's very slight. Human bones don't weigh much at all, like your entire Yeah, your entire skeleton is like you know, between like six and eight pounds. Yes, And the variable the variation between a full grown woman and a full grown man not that much. Most of it is muscle and tendons and organs and all that stuff. That's where most of your weight comes from. But there is a difference in bone density and more importantly in bone structure. Because like, bone density is one thing, but a narrow guy like Callen will never be a wide guy will never be thick. Like, there's no way you can change that. You can't change the structure of the body. You can change the density, Like I could never be a thick neck, right, I could maybe be a hothead, but every thing, well, you could get your neck could get definitely get thicker, but you never get broad shoulders. The only way you would do that is, you know, you'd have to change your genetics somehow or another, which it is not outside the realm of possibility. And there's something they're working on a daily basis. They're constantly fucking with the human body and trying to figure out new ways that they can, you know, influence genes and change this and alter that. And without a doubt, within our lifetimes, we're gonna see genetically modified human beings that all look like fucking hercules. I mean, it's gonna happen if we stay alive for another fifty sixty years, I am indus, if we stay alive until we're like in our nineties, we will probably see some fucking freak human beings that look like the Hulk like people that exist, or seven foot tall people that are five hundred pounds that can jump over buildings. It's on the way. They've already figured out a thing called milestaton inhibitors. They figured out how to alter these and mice they happen in naturally, and when they breed whippets types of dog cows, it happens in cows too. Yeah, there's a lot of legal hurdles of this stuffs open. It's gonna happen. It's people are working with it. I mean, there will be legal hurdles as far as like competition in the Olympics and things along those lines, but as far as like human beings altering their body for for a positive benefit. You mean post birth milestanton inhibitors. When they get these mice, the mice have twice as much muscle and live longer. They live longer, They could fucking run for days. They can do all kinds of crazy ship that other mice can't. They're super mice, and they figured out how to do this. They've altered the genes in the mice to make them do that. It's a matter of time before they start doing that with humans. A matter of a decade, two decades, whatever it is before they figure out how to really tap into that. But the people that you see today, you know, natural people to just exist. Because Bob and Sally got together and had a kid, those are gone. Those they won't be here a hundred years from now or two hundred years from now. There will be you know, we will live in a world with superheroes, and it will be just like cell phones, where when cell phones first came out, it was only the wealthy they could afford them. It was like on Wall Street, see Michael Douglas got that stupid brick to his head and walking around like it's a status symbol and rap videos. Well, now you can go to the jum goal and you'll see people with little, tiny ass cell phones. Everybody has a fucking phone now. It's because as technology grows, as it exponentially gets more and more complex, and as innovation continues, you're seeing access to this technology slowly start to trickle down to the average every day folks. You're gonna see that with genetic engineering, it's just gonna be a thing. You wonder what what'll do, what it'll do to artistic expression, But you wonder what it does to artistic expression because I was gonna say that, Thank God, I do have those longings to be somebody else, because all my humor comes from the fact that I am compensating for you know, yeah, I got a great jawline, and my eyes are hypnotic. I'm gonna stretch. Um. My brother once observed that if a woman says, oh, he's funny. She likes Yeah, she's attracted to him, and she says he's nice. You know, yeah, it's pretty true. Man like that, who's the guy? He's funny? That means she wants to go out with the women have a hard time creating humor for the most part. It's obviously some very funny women, very funny women comedians. But Christopher Hitchins had this really interesting take on it, and he wrote an article I think it was a g Q. Who was that article in one of the one of the magazines Esquire? Maybe he wrote an article Vanity Fair. I think it was Vanity Fair. He wrote an article about women aren't funny and women freaked the funk out butzine. But his take was that it's not that there aren't certain examples. Don't let him hold the mike, Jesus Christ. It's not that it wasn't that there aren't the rare aberrations of very funny women. But for the most part, the funny women were very butchy, very dykey, very large and big, and their humor was mostly male. It was male oriented humor. And that he wrote, yes, yes, not only did he write it, but he defended it when criticized in this video. It was brilliant. It was amazing. Yeah, because he was saying, like, it's not that there aren't Sarah Silverman's or or was she on the cover? Was she sort of like the cover for this piece. Yeah, I believe like they're trying to run around the criticism by by coming up with the one aberration. But a lot of women also there that are funny, or they're funny on a curve, they're judged on a curve. It's like, compare them to like Kinderson. There's no woman it's ever been as funny as Kinderson. It's like Roseanne Barrs in my opinion, one of the all time great comedians, and I put her up there in the top ten all time greats male and female. But she was fat and loud and fut cam shut Apps set the funk down. That was her thing. Man. She wasn't feminine in any way, shape or form. There was nothing dainty. And in his analysis or his his take on it, it was like, no, she's doing male humor. She's not behaving like your stereotypical female. She's behaving like a man. She's doing a man's version of He was a bold. There's a book, a fantastic book about human genetics and human evolution called Loan Survivors. So it came out a weirdly. It came out just before the book Loan Survivor, But Loan Survivors about why are you? Why are we the only humans on Earth? So like what happened to all the other you know, because at times you had many human forms all running around at the same time, sometimes on the same continent, like when Neanderthals and humans were coexisting in Europe. Lon Survivors And there's a couple of points in his book when he's talking about human migrations and other things, there's a cold point of this book. He would say, basically, there are a lot more interesting things I could tell you about, but it's career suicide to discuss these things. He just won't say it. He won't say things about like when he's talking about what forms like just like distribution of certain gene types and stuff. He's like his career suicide to discuss that, I won't discuss it. That's what Stephen Pinker. That's what Stephen Pinker writes about in in the Blank Slate. I mean, if you as an academic come up with ideas that suggests that people are born differently physiologically and especially mentally. Good luck because he was just physiology and he was afraid to say it and exactly and and there are people now that are tackling that because the science is so overwhelming. On the other side, I mean David Epstein's book Um Um The Sports Chain, I mean, he makes a clear case that if you are you're not sprinting. And you could never said this before, but the evidence that you're not sprinting in the World Championships with the Olympics and a hundred or two hundreds or at least a hundred if if you are not, I'm sorry. You're not meddling. You're not meddling people in the past twenty years unless you are of West African descent and a specific areas that that could be sited racist. Not only that, but you're talking about a good thing right Like it's crazy, Like you say all black guys have big dicks. You're a racist. Isn't that a good thing? I have a big dick? Like what am I? If I was saying all black dicks taste like fucking turpentine, then that would probably be racist, right, you know what I mean. But I'm saying it's a good thing. But he was a Nebraska coach or whoever who said we we don't have enough speed in our team. And he said, we gotta start getting some black backs on this team. Black guys. Yeah, yeah, And there was a huge uproar. They asked him, what do you need to change it? As well? You need to get some more black players, right, and guess what they looked at they looked at They looked at all the top running backs and defensive backs in the NFL and and d one ball. Guess what they were they were? They were primarily black? Right now, How is that racist? Just when you're talking about something good? Right, the same way, the same way that the majority of world champion Uh, because it reinforced is like an impression. I think it reinforces an impression. No, the idea that they're better athletes, well more more more, I think some people aren't comfortable about that because it trivializes other attributes, because it's more important, more import than that would say. It goes against the Marxist ideal ideology, the terms that we all start as equal, that that some people are born different and with advantages. It what it does, it highlights the fact that inequality exists in nature, even among people. That is a very touchy subject because it was used by the Nazis and other people to justify the destruction, subjugation, enslavement, etcetera of people. You're Jewish, therefore you are of inferior blood. It goes back to kings and queens. You were you were only allowed to breed with a note with someone of noble blood. But why when you're talking about superior attributes is it racist? It's not unless you you were in a board meeting for your company and you're like, let's name the ten greatest inventions of the last hundred years. And then then people rattle off like what they from their perspective, what they regard to be the ten greatest inventions. So they got like the computer, you know, the microchip or whatever you got car who came up with all that? Way, guys, what this company needs. I can't help it. It's just true, this company needs some white guys. Well, why would be like, you're why would that be racist? Where I can tell you what, but why why would it be racist? If it was a fact but it's not a fact. In other words, that's what you're talking about, one very specific thing. Okay, I don't know who's created what or invented what. But if you're talking about some specific facts and you're talking about you know, okay, here's a perfect example. How many European Jews have won Nobel Prizes? A fucking half half. So if you said, you know, hey, our university wants to in a Nobel Prize, I want to get one of our professors. What do we need to do? We need to get some European Jews on staff. Is that stereotypical? Or is that? Is that? What is that? Well, because I think it would apply. It would The application is that other people's ability to contribute is limited based on that, and we sort of we and in some ways. And I'm gonna tell you that I'm not I'm not telling I'm offended by this because I know you're just you're just voicing concerns. I'm just saying I think that people would feel that you're saying that that other's ability is limited, And by focusing on what traditionally is produced, you're creating sort of a static environment where that thing will continue to happen, and you're not opening it up for other people to have new outcurrent, Right, But how can you say that when you're talking about something like sprinting where the fucking numbers are so overwhelming. What is it We're gonna have like affirmative action for sprinters and only have a bunch of white sprinters because black guys are two into Well, we're gonna lower the times now that we're gonna give them a hunted the yard head start. Like white guys just suck at running, so we're gonna do is We're gonna make it really easy for white runners. It's racist if you don't. Otherwise you're gonna have all black people winning sprinting. And you know, you can really could turn it in that direction. But blcome, these European Jews are doing so well, well, it's because we haven't given these other people a better chance. You need affirmative action with inventions, and if you come up with an invention, you gotta fucking hand it over to some Yugoslavian guy with a fucking head wound, because none of those have ever come up with ship. But the statistic, the delineation, though, the distinction is the distinction is to one is. One is genetic, which you can prove evolutionary botherls can prove with the amount of fast twitch muscle and things like that. The other is cultural. And so when you talk about for example, I believe half of almost half of all Nobel Prize winners were Jewish have been Jewish, which is an incredible number. But then you have to look at the culture. Then you have to then then there's so many different factors in that aspect. So so you know, you would look at what is esteemed in the culture, education, being original, having to be original, otherwise, country, hard work, all of us. I think it was Jared Diamond looked at. I think it doesn't look like pressures against you know, Jared Diamond did an amazing job of first of all, saying that the reason he looked at why when he was in Papoa, New Guinea, one of his the guys who was working was said, why do you white people have everything and us black people have nothing? And that sent him on a twenty year odyssey to figure out why it was that some nations excelled others day in this primarily Northern Europe, Europe and sub Subaharan Africa. And why didn't sub to Hearan Africa. Not so much of it had to do with geography. So much you had to do with whether you had access to domesticated animals, um edible grasses, and the environment, what disease did to you, all those kinds of things, I mean, and he doesn't masterful job of proving that that. It had to do more with also your your access to other people. We borrow from other people. Any tribe that was isolated, like the the the Highlanders of New Guinea who are isolated for forty thousand years, stayed prem because they were they didn't have access to other people's ideas. Human beings share ideas and that's where they grow um and we share ideas more importantly from completely different environments, different cultures where you have a lot of people, where you have long latitudinal lines, where you have people with a similar climate, can share material. You advanced faster than people on a thing where it's oriented longitudine e. Where when I figure out something here down in the south of our land, it doesn't really apply to you up there. So like a landmask that has on a map appears horizontal, advances faster than a land mask that appears vertical. Look at Africa because you're figuring it out in the Amazon. There's some dude up in the Great Plains could give a shit about there's no bearing on them. Africa, Africa and the Middle East what they call the Fertile Crescent, the North Africa and the Middle East where so much where writing came. We know a lot of writing, uh, domesticated animals, barley, weed, all those things, and there was a thriving population. What you had. The reason it didn't come down to to you know, Africa, Equatorial Africa is because you had the desert, the Sahara Desert and then in penetrable jungle. Then you get down to South Africa and that was that was temperate. So so wherever there was trade and people were able to go and not you know, and share ideas about dying of yellow fever and stuff like that. It was totally different. But what's fascinating about Jared Diamonds work was that you take a highlander from New Guinea who's been isolated for forty thousand years and there's no tradition of writing, reading or arithmetic. You take that They took a kid who had had came from none of that, none of that, And he went to a regular you know, Western schooling and by the time he was whatever fourteen fifteen, he was reading and writing and doing arithmetic on the same level as any Northern European. That's very interesting because what that says it is the malleability of the human brain and the fact that the Highlanders may not be sharing the same intellectual tradition, but they are having to use their brain. They are having to figure out what grasses are readible? What then, what the weather is gonna do tomorrow, how are they gonna hunt? So they're still using their brain. That that that matter. First time I ever had a podcast. Yeah, why don't we actually wrap this up? This is almost Is there any toilet paper left? Um? Answer? Tuning in this podcast is held as long as he could. He has to leave to go out of the rain. He's got the kit. You know. One thing that Brian, I want to close on one note, Brian is I was talking about fast twitch and slow twitch muscle and remind me of something my brother is just telling me. He's a he's an ecologist, a lout of fish. When you cut a salmon flame in half, and you see how you got all that, like the pink flesh on the salmon flay, and then you have that little bit of brown it's kind of like people sometimes called the bloodline, but a little bit of brown flesh in the center of the flay up against the skin. What you're looking at is that little bit of brown stuff is slower twitch muscle, and all of that pink is fast twitch muscle. And when that sam and just swimming through the ocean, he's just using that little bit of brown stuff and all that pink stuff is for what his holy ship moments of when he splits. That's like the ratio of like if you look at a turkey, how he's got the dark meat, you know, winging leg, dark meat, and then he's got that white flesh. So you're looking out a salmon that interesting. Thanks for tuning in. We're gonna just hope that they either gets better. Let's go, honey, you might not get Let's just go hunt. H