00:00:13 Speaker 1: Welcome to the gear Talk podcast. I'm here your honest MATELUS, and it's my co host Jordan Budd is here as well. Today we are talking UM, and we're not talking, We're gonna answer listener questions UM. As a reminder, if you have questions for US, ideas, critiques, whatever, UM, you can send it into gear Talk at the meat Eator dot com if you prefer email. UM. If you'd like to comment on a particular episode, you can do that on our podcasts homepage on the mediator dot com. Just go to podcasts, find gear Talk, then find this particul the episode and comment there. You can also find Jordan and I on our respective Instagram handles, Jordan's dot bud or Underscore. But tell us, Jordan, you're ready to go. I'm ready to rock, man, Let's just get right in. Yeah, this is a good one that everybody thinks about this one a lot. Uh. Garrett Backman rode in and ask us, what do you recommend for headlamps? Flashlights? Go for it. I can say I don't really carry a flashlight. UM, so I don't have a good one for for flashlights specifically, But last year I started using a headlamp called the petsel Actic Core, and uh, it's it's a rechargeable. It actually has these little square batteries flipping the back, and that little battery has like a USB two point oh attachment on it, so you can plug it in and charge the battery. So you can have multiple batteries that you can keep switching back and forth to keep them, you know, the charged one and keep flipping it. Or if that you run out of those or your battery goes dead or whatever, you can take that out and still use triple A batteries inside of it. So a little bit of a redundancy thing there. Um, and it's pretty sweet. I love the thing. Super has three settings for brightness, and the brightest one is like really bright, Like it's as bright as any headlamp I've ever I've ever had. And uh, if it if it gets to where it's like starting to time out on the top one, it'll just it'll flash once and it'll just kick you down to the next setting, So it won't just die all together, it'll it'll just kick you down to the next light setting. So I've had super good luck with that. I love that thing, and it's not it's not it's not too big around these just giant. I know this guy done in Arkansas carries around the head lamp. It's so heavy it's got to be mounted to a helmet. Yeah, I'm kidding, I'm talking about I'm talking about Clay. Those are sun spotlights. I own one. It is absolutely the ship when you're out there a coon hunting. Clay likes to carry coon light just generally in the back country wherever he is. It's a little too much for me to carry. I just don't feel like I need, you know, a being that can shoot four yards um. That being said, it's got a lot to say about this. I used to always carry I think it was a sog some kind of a torch, you know that use those like super high dollar batteries like the the the CR one two three's. Is that what it was. Yeah, he used a couple of those, and then a couple of times it came in handy route finding when it's like it gets dark on you. You got into some place that you know, and it was easy to get in there, and then all of a sudden you're like looking around in the dark. Your head lamp can't reach far enough and you're getting in amongst some bouldery cliffy kind of country and I would pull out this you know super beam light and all of a sudden, you can you know, blasted to yards and you're like, oh, okay, there's that little grassy ramp that gets me out of the spot that I'm in. Um, but I can say that, like right, like in the last whatever four or five years, I haven't been carrying that. I've been just relying on, you know, doing a better job of you know, marking way points if I'm going into actually did a hunt this year that was like that. Like we went up in the dark and it was sketchy, like we found a literal goat trail more probably a deer trail, but it was sketchy. Um. The guy I was with actually gets a little bit of vertigo. It was fine in the dark because he couldn't really see how exposed we were. The exposure was only maybe twenty ft. But then when we came down midday, Uh, he was like, just go right in front of me, I'll look at your back and we'll make it. But it's like, anyways, just to say that it's a little bit sketchy, but when I go through stuff like that, just mark a waypoint on my onyx to be like, this is how you get down, you know, or back up or whatever. But back to head lamps. Um, I've never tried that one. I'm gonna put on my list of things to check out. But I've been using for a while now versions of the Black Diamonds Storm. The current one I think I have is the Fire sounds very similar to yours, except I don't think you can actually I don't know if you can get separate batteries to charge up for it, which is a which is a smart move, but it does you can't take the batteries out and drop in some triple a's uh when you need to in a pinch. What I like about these in general, and at first I was scared to use these chargeable ones because I thought, man, there's no way that you're just gonna get the life out of it. But I found that on full week long hunts, six seven days using it every day in the morning for you know, an hour or more every day, and even for an hour or more, and that includes you know, time in the field or if you get back and you're you know, cleaning out the truck or you know, prep and gear for the next day whatever. It might be. Certainly several two to three hours a day, um, maybe longer. But I feel like I've been very surpleasantly surprised that I've yet to be on a you know, anything under a seven day hunt or up to a seven day hunt where I've lost battery or you know, maybe towards the end you like you said, it will kind of drop down in settings and you'll be using like a dimmer light. But again, very impressed that it lasts, um, uh the whole time, and that uh, that black diamond one that I've been using has a mini USB to charge it, and my uh you know battery packs that I carry also have mini USB, so off a one battery pack. You know, I'm charging my phone, my head lamp, um, my little garment, uh, you know, in reach device, which that thing. Now. I don't know if you've heard, but man, there's a new one out that I don't even know what they're calling. Yeah, they're calling it it's a communicator. Seriously, I've left it on now it's been going for like four weeks. What yeah, yeah, it's a little black box. Just because I wanted to see because they're claiming it's like twenty eight days, and I think that's what it's like use and I think I'm like, I've surpassed that with very light use. Um, because I usually just turn it on and stick it in my my pant pocket when I'm going line hunting. That way, it's just on. And if it really comes down to an emergency situation where I need it in a pinch, I don't have to then turn it on like I'm gonna pull out my phone, go to the messenger app and and I'll be you know, sending out a message. But it's incredible. Yeah, I got mine from Buddy Woodberry over it uh W Hunting Supply, which which is where I get all my hound hunting gear, leashes, leashes, and the antenna's mostly because Mingus is an antenna schuer. Although this last one he doesn't seem to be chewing on. I'm gonna look over right now, it's gonna be chewing on his antenna. But um yeah, the uh we should talk about that at another time more. But it's incredible. The battery life, which is just comes back to how I don't need to use my brick anymore to charge up my inn reached device, which leaves more energy left charge up my phone in my head lamp, which I'm telling you I had over a week long hunt. I haven't had to charge it up um this one. Have you had similar luck with that Petzel? Yeah? Similar luck probably. I think the longest time I've been on it with is like a week where I could say it was completely charged when I started, and then towards the end, you know, it might be down to like the medium beam, but I don't think I ever went below the medium beam UM last of the whole time, I they've come a long ways. Like I tried one of the very first I think it's called the Revolt from uh from Black Diamond. It was like the very first one that they came out with, and I just like I could not keep especially in colder weather, couldnt keep that thing charged and uh and then at that time, you couldn't take you couldn't put different batteries in. It was kind of that's what you had. And uh. Yeah this, I think they they've come leaps and bounds with reach our arging um rechargeable items just kind of as a whole. I think batteries are getting better. I mean they're getting lighter and and able to hold a charge longer, just you know, just like you were talking about the inn reach. So yeah, do you carry to headlamps? Do you carry back up? Ever? Yes? I do. Actually, I'm glad you brought that up. I believe it's called the petzel E light. The light, Yeah, we use the same one then. Yeah, I mean it's I mean, does it even weigh an ounce? No, No, there's nothing to it, and you can just like I usually have mine in my vinyl harness and sometimes it's nice, like when you're in your tent. It just it doesn't kick off a big light at all, but it would get you out of a rough spot if you had to use it. Um, but it's nice. It's kind of like it's a softer light, I think, so like inside your tents. Nice. You can um like the adjustable band that comes with it. It's not like a big thick head band like a normal headlamp is. It's like super thin. You could like put it around your wrist and the light like flips and twirls degrees, so you can do you can do a lot more things with that that headlamp too, instead of it just like sitting in your pack and not getting any use. No, I mean, and that's what it does there. Um, there's a lot of gear. I feel like when you're backpack and hunting that it is there for emergencies. I mean, even my rain gear just sits in the bottom of pack so much more than it actually gets used. Um. But last time I pulled that out my buddy Joe Smith who helped me on my buddy Ethan and identa and elk hunt where we drew tags in Colorado's uh nine after like I don't know eleven or twelve years of applying and um, we'd hiked way into some skinny little drainage to look at some off trail like walking a drainage, which I think I'm realizing I just hate unless there's a cut trail in it. They just sucked because they're just there's always a ton of logs in there. But we get in there, we hunted out, didn't see an elk, and remind saw an elk in the way for our distance, but nothing where we were like it where it was even approachable for the evening hunt and like we're getting ready to leave and she was like, oh, man, forgot the headlamp busted out my pets or elite and heat multiple times over the course of the next ninety minutes while we're hiking out. Was like, dude, this thing is saving my butt right now. Um so yeah for the ounce it is. And I think they're cheap too. It's like bucks or something, right, Yeah, they're super cheap. Yeah, and uh, I think there's like other versions of it now that are supposed to be a little like still super lightweight and a little headband, but they like the lights just brighter, just how smart features. But yeah, yeah, I'm seeing that. I'm seeing the e light two point oh for thirty bucks ish uh sweet on the internet. Yeah, good backup option for sure. I want to move on to the next. Uh. This one was asked a while ago. I can't I believe it was a I can't remember if it was the woman's husband or the woman herself that rode in from Alaska, but the question that it seems like they hunt hard a lot, wet in wet conditions in Alaska. Her husband's super stoked on his you know, fl rain gear pants, and she's like, dude, how come you guys can't make it in women's sizing. UM. So I asked Ben Flandro from First Light, like, what's up with that? I kind of knew the answer, but he gave me a nice concise answer. He says, at its most basic, ramp pants typically are oversized to fit over the top of better fitting men's and women's pants. That being the case, a more unisex fit is often sufficient to cover both men's and women's needs. When you couple that with the production minimums and smaller volumes across the women's market, this is one area we choose to employ a more unisex direction. And I think the second part of that is what's what's important to understand that there are production minimums, meaning that like, if you want to make a women's pants, you can't just make a thousand total or whatever it is, whatever, however many you think you're gonna be able to sell, and and there's gonna be more sure you could probably do, you know, at a specialized factory, you could do less. It's just gonna cost more drive up the price. Um. And then the flip side of that is that the smaller volume of the women's more market. And I know that there's a lot of people out there there gonna say, well, no, there's you know, so many women are hunting now and it's like the fastest growing sector of you know hunting. That all may be true, but when you look at the numbers, there's just aren't enough women buying these rain pants to make it worth while for companies. And there are some women's specific companies out there. Um, what's that one? The one's been around for a while? Is it like prois Prous? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Have you ever tried their gear? No? I have not, honestly. Yeah. Um, I think Sick has got some you know, women's stuff. I don't know if they have you know, women's specific rain gear, but um, I don't know. So that's the answer to why First Light doesn't make women's specific rain wear. Anything you want to add to that, um, not really, Like I I have never had an issue with it, mostly because I'm probably not a representation. Like I'm pretty tall, got pretty broad shoulders, like the men's stuff. Just it fits me. It fits me, okay, like it fits me good enough, especially for like rain gear. I can put it over the top of whatever I'm wearing and I don't feel like it's really boxy. Like that's another thing to think of. Two is like I don't think just because it's men's it's going to be super boxing and like baggy and crazy like it's it's slim fitting stuff. I think, especially the new omen Um, I think the fit of it, like the pants are pretty slim. Uh, it's not just super big, boxy baggy stuff. But I'm also like five ten hundred sixty five pounds, Like I'm not you know, just what five two five three twenty pounds like the men's small might not fit you as well as like, you know, all the men's medium stuff. It's me really well, So I'm not like a great representation on that. But um but I think it just comes down to like the women's market type deal, Like it just kinda it is what it is. And I think we're doing really good for some of these companies that are making as much women stuff as they are and really trying to put thought and stuff into it. Um hm, I think we're pretty we're doing pretty good for having that. So yeah, and I think too, it's it's good to add that, like even for me as much as I wear that omen rain paint a lot right now, lion hunting in the snow. It's not like it's it does not fit me like a pair of blue jeans does. Like you're just not getting that glovy super customed. Like you know, the sizing is uh large long, you know, medium long, whatever it is. So it's it's not like I get to choose a thirty three ways and the thirty five in sem um. It just doesn't it doesn't exist. So even for the size, if it's the best is the large long, but I have to like pull in the waist a little bit, you know, kind of adjust it. Um. But it's still a you know, i'd call it a bat for me, a baggy fitting pant. And it's not something not something like the you know the core Get foundry that just fits, you know, nice and tight to my waist and you know, just snugger more like a pair of blue jeans. Yeah. Yeah, just like just like Ben talked about, like it's just more of a unisex style piece anyway, Like just all of them are, you know, rain gear in general is just kind of that way. So yeah, and I feel like with the room that they've given those rain jackets, uh for layering and for bino harnesses, like I'm always kind of fight them on that. I would even like them to be even slimmer fitting. But I would imagine that it if you have a bigger chest, that there's there's plenty of room in that omen rain jacket for that. Hopefully that covered it well and all made sense moving onward. Tripods tripod um on Instagram at DV on our score, Sportsman rode in, what's a decent trap pod that won't break the bank? I have a two or fifty dollar Vanguard, but it's flimsy. You wanna start, Yeah, I've I've used the Outdoorsman's a lot, which is not really the that's just like an expensive tripod, and it's a good tripod. But lately, this last year I bought a slick CF six to four to save some bulk, save some weight, and it's two bucks. It's a tick under two pounds. It's like one point eight pounds um. And then I put the Outdoorsman's head on top of it and got pretty dang good system for under three pounds. And I found that to be pretty good, especially like packing. It's got the twist locks, so they're super low profile, like sometimes the flick locks or the lever locks, we'll just be a little bulky and get hung up on your pack like on straps or whatever pulling it out. Um, the twist locks keep that the profile pretty slim, easy to pull it out of your pack. And um, it's still like I think you're you get into a tipping point with like trying to be super lightweight on things, and especially with tripods, like how stable they are in the wind. Um, I don't think that this one that I've got is like, I don't I wouldn't call it flimsy, but if the wind's really ripping, like it's gonna vibrate your optics more so, then I think like a heavier like aluminum tripod would. Um. So I think that's something to think about. But man, that's what I've been using. That's two bucks and good system something. Yeah, And I took a quick look at I've never I've never heard of Vanguard tripods, and I'm guessing that, like like a lot of the more affordable tripod setups, when you buy theirs, you get ahead with it. So that's like a combo head. And uh, the thing with the heads that usually come if you're going to get ahead. That just comes with the legs. You're probably it's just sure, it's probably a lot lighter, but man, you're just sacrificing so much. And just you know the smoothness of the movements. Um. You know, the a lot of them will just have one like handle that you twist open. It kind of opens up the whole ball or whatever is the the moving mechanism in it versus having separate tilt and pan. And when you really sit down to start just pounding the glass, it just doesn't work well at all. Um. You know you're having to hold it. And anytime you have to do extra holding um as opposed to just looking and using like I usually just used the bridge of my nose to move my binoculars around as I'm you know, glassing. Um, anytime you have to use you know, your hands, arms or whatever, it doesn't seem like a lot, but just having instead of having them at your sides and having them up and hanging onto a handle. Sure you're like, oh, I can do that forever. Well, I challenge you because I bet and you can do it for twenty minutes or even thirty minutes. But after two hours, your hand is tired, and you're gonna start glassing less, not as hard whatever, and the person that has the better setup is going to be you know, it's still going after it hard. UM the Slick CF pros or what I use as well. UM. I've had my original one. I'd had to say it was a seven thirty three model. I probably bought it in right around two thousand two or three, so it's coming on twenty years. It still works. The little rubber twist things that go around around the twist blocks have sometimes come loose and I've just you know, jammed some glue in there. UM. I actually sent it back to Slick and they replace the foamy outer part for me. UM. So very high quality product, lightweight. UM. I prefer the carbon fiber over and aluminum because it's ah quieter and it doesn't get cold to the touch. Sometimes that aluminum is so cold and cold conditions that even with a glove on, you're walking around hanging on your tripod and you know, your fingers just the heat just gets sucked right out of them. The way to understand these tripods, because you're gonna go to uh whatever Ben h photo video and be like, oh my god, Slick makesfferent carbon fiber tripods. The the in the three numbers, the six, the six, seven, eight. I don't even know if they make a five, but that basically stands for the diameter, the thickness, the strength of the legs themselves. So the sixes to me are I own six, seven, and eight. The six is great because it's the lightest weight, but like you said, it's flimsy, it's and it just in any kind of windy condition, you're high end optics that are that worth thousands of dollars are gonna look like crap because they're vibrating in the wind and you can't get a steady picture. There's nothing worse. I hate looking through someone's super nice spotting scope and it's shaken because they have it on have it on a on a cheap tripod. One second, alright, So with the Slick carbon fiber tripods that like, each model comes uh with like a it's like a three number model, like six to four, like the one Jordan just said six three four six three three seven three three. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the middle number stands for. But the first number is gonna be the diameter and the strength stability of the of the legs themselves. The last number it's gonna be how many sections of of legs that you have, uh or sorry, how many sections the leg has itself. So like a seven thirty three is gonna be kind of that middle ground of stiffness and sturdiness and weight, and it's gonna have uh, three sections. Um, I'm guessing that middle one has something to do with what the total height is gonna be. Um, that was your guest, Jordan. But I know that with my the six thirty three and the seven thirty three that I just bought this year, both of them will get tall enough with the center post that for me as a six two person, you know, if I sort of spread my legs out or you know, bend my knees a little bit, I can look straight through my binoculars um off of them. Uh. The sixth series is, like you said, a little bit light, a little bit wobbly. Seventh series to me is just perfect. It gets a little bit heavier. Um, but again it's like when it when it, when it really matters and you're trying to get a good look at something, you're gonna be happy that you have the stability of the seven. The eight, UM, I just don't use it that much. Um Uh. It's just if I knew that was only going to be looking, you know, next to the truck and jumping out of the truck and setting up a tripod, I would use the eights. Or if I had just some really giant glass which I don't own, anything like the co of Big Eyes or any of those big dogs, it would come those would come into use more often. So um, that's how they work. My recommendation is the seven series. Um, you can either go seven thirty three or seven thirty four. If you go with the four section legs, it's gonna come out to roughly probably the same total height, but because there's four sections, it becomes more compact, so I have compact versions. I don't know if it's necessarily any better, because where the tripod lives on my backpack, it can be another six or eight inches longer and it's still just fine being there. Like, I don't need it necessarily shorter because it lives in either you know, a long pocket on the outside or just strapped to the outside of the pack anyway, so it can pretty much be as long as the pack and not really getting in my way. Um. But both of those trying to get back to telling, um, telling how the dB sports from what a what a decent tripod is. It won't break the bank, but I wanted to explain that. So if you're looking, you kind of know what you're looking at. Uh. Those two come in right the six four two pounds, thirty four is two and a half pounds. Uh. Both you're gonna find it right in that to fifty range plus for minus ten twucks. Um. So that's just for the legs, and I think it that's a great deal for just the legs. UM. For what you're getting, Like I said, I've got a set that are almost twenty years old and are still rocking. UM. And you're gonna do better glassing and you're gonna just have a better product if you buy yourself a nice head. Uh. Like Jordan's said, there's that doors and pain and head at UM. I tried out this fall and was very happy using the Surui. I don't know how to product or something cru s I r Ui the v A five at a hundred fifty bucks. It was just over a pound. So your total kit is um, you know, still well under four pounds UM or just over three pounds depending on which legs you go with, and you're just gonna have a much better glassing experience by going with a nice head like that. Total price you're gonna be in at about four hundred dollars. You know. I don't know if that might break the bank for some If you're already spending two fifty, I think you can spend the extra one fifty and really get yourself something solid. Uh, that's gonna that's gonna really do do the job right. Yeah, And that I've heard there's like quite a few of Buddy or whatever a minor running that v A five head and they love it. And um, I haven't personally ran it, but there's another one to that that I ran for a while. It's called the ben Row S two and it's a little bit smaller than the v A five UM, and it's not gonna it's not gonna handle really big optics well like nine five or something like that, but like your standard like eighty millimeter spot or it's gonna be fine for um And that is right, it's right, and around that it's cheaper than a hundred fifty bucks it might be closer to a hundred or like, um, but I think like that is like the best bang for your buck is like that six thirty four or even the twenty four UM with like that v A five head, Like if you want the best bang for your buck, that's gonna last a long time. I think that. I think that's where it's at. And um, like you said, you've been using your six three or four forever and it's still kicking, Like it's not something that's just gonna you're gonna have to repurchase in a couple of years, like it's gonna kind of I don't know. This is one thing I've just I've gone to where I have to, Like you're just switching heads all the time and changing tripods and trying to sell and buy new ones, and it's like, if you just get a good system to start with, you're going to be so much happier. Mm hmmm. Yeah. And those heads they all come with a with a plate or two when you buy the head, and then you can just buy another plate or two depend on how many other things you're gonna put on the tripod that you can then just attach to those things so that way it's quick to go between binocular spotting, scope, shooting rests, uh, you know, whatever else you might be plopping on top of your your set of sticks. And I do want to say, like like there's ways to get around the flimsiness of um of like the lighter tripods, uh, keeping them low to the ground, you know, not opening it up fully. So again that's why it's like it depends on like you've got to know what you're using it for and like if you can sacrifice the weight, because even on a sheet punt, it's like, Okay, you're probably just gonna use the binoculars to find the sheep um and then you're gonna put that spotter on that tripod and you're just gonna you know, then take the time to like study a sheep. It's probably not moving too much. It's just there. So it's okay to set it up very low to the ground because the higher goes like the whole thing just starts shaking more and the more the wind is going to affect it. So keep it lower. It's gonna be more stable and the less wind is gonna hit it. You can get you know, find yourself a wind block, build yourself, a wind block, whatever it takes. So there's there's ways around it. Um that can you know, justify you know, the lighter tripod which is whatever it is a half a pound and um, I'll remind you that a half a pound for one item doesn't seem like that it's that much. But when you do half a pound here and then another half a pound there, and next thing you know, you've shaved ten pounds off your pack, and that is a lot. Yeah, and it helps with the bulk, to which I've really appreciated the last couple of years of trying to trying to lighten stuff up. It just really helps with your your overall pack size and bulk. Um. Yeah, I think like some of these new slick tripods, to the newer versions of them, they have a little hook on the bottom of the center post that you can like hang I don't know, like your backpack strap or whatever. You could put it on there, or a bag of rocks or something if you needed to think that. That's how they sell it is like it's makes meant to hold put like to add a weight to it and to just stabilize your whole system. And uh so yeah, when you see that hook, don't take it off because it might come in here. Sweet all right, I think we got time for one more. Um. I think the Yeah. The question we get a ton of and circulates around is rifle calibers. So we have a question from James Boulet and he says, I'm looking to expand to a guided mule deer hunt in moose hunt. In my question, do y'all is caliber? I use a three O eight for white tail deer in Connecticut as farthest shot maybe hundred fifty yards, and that's extremely far for his state. However, going out west and up north, I can see shooting around two hundred yards. What caliber do you guys slash girls use free your hunts. There's a lot of talk of these new high BC rounds such as the seven PRC and three prc um. I'm not sure if these rounds will stay around or not. I do reload all of my own ammunition from nine mil to three o eight. And he's looking for professional input as to the best all around cartridge that he can use for big game and what we use. And he also says he believes he's seen Mr Ronnella using Savage High Country rifle. I can't comment on the last part. I think, yeah, just comment on that. I can't. We certain we for a while we had a deal with Savage. We used their rifles. Uh. They were great. Uh. We were pleasantly surprised that just about all of them with factory emma would would shoot, you know, right around an inch. Um. I can't remember the name of the model. I think it was the one ten um. Whether or not they still make it, I don't know. But Steve's now using a couple of different weather it be Mark fives. The reason he's us the Mark five is because they offer that in a left handed version, where that vanguard met eatter doesn't come in left handed version. UM can you speak to the new high Is he right in saying that people are calling the seven million PRC and THRC higher BC? I'm not, because that's just gonna be your bullet, Like yeah, that's how I understand it too, just like Wisbeye cartridges, you know, like, yeah, they got more, They got a lot of a lot of powder behind them. Um. BC stands for ballistic coefficient, which is basically the shape of the bullet and how it reacts to the air That is going through the higher the BC basically the sleeker it is and the less it's being slowed down or the less drags being imparted on it as it flies through the air. That's a real basic version of it. So I don't think that somehow, because there's a new cartridge behind a seven millimeter bullet that's gonna make it a higher BC. So it might be just a little bit confused there. I don't know much about those. I know that the six and the six five PRC have been you know, a lot of fanfare the last five years, and it seems like the seven millimeter and are equally going to be getting some excitement. Um. I'm sure they're great. I'm sure they're probably better for whatever reason accuracy, um, you know, burn rate of powder or whatever it might be. Um, I've kind of fallen out of like the super tentable, uh, you know, different calibers conversation. It's is one of those is one of those things that just fell out the wayside when um I had kids. So I'm hoping that once that slows down a little bit, I'll be able to like mess around with that more. Um. But yeah, I'm sure they're great. Rounds. But honestly, the three oh eight, I believe he's already got a gun that he can go hunting out west with and uh and easily shoot if he's if he's only shooting shooting out to three hundred yards UM, then uh like easily can do that. Uh. You know, you could just bump up to a hundred eighty grain or I'm guessing you can load a three oh a win with a two grain bullet um and that would be plenty for for a moose or mule deer out to the you know, three yard range. Um. Yeah, yeah, I agree, I think like, especially for a mule deer hunt, that's plenty, uh like a moose. I haven't been on a lot of moose hunts, um, but if I were going to go on a moose hunt, I think I would want to go to probably like a three hundred win or even just a regular seven mag um. We always so like I used to work for a company. It was a rifle company. It was they mostly were like a on the long range deal. But you know they they really like to push like a seven mag Like that's big cartridge um and you can handle the recoil better than like a three D win so you're able to track your shot, like when you shoot, you just don't get like if you have to make a follow up shot. It's just something that you can shoot better and like more confident too. You can just reload and get on target faster, so you're not dealing with a ton of recoil. Um. Yeah, it's really like a lot of the new like you know the whiz Bane cartridges and things we're talking about that I just don't get super like ballistically nerded out on a lot of that stuff. Um. I try to keep it pretty pretty simple, but yeah, I think I mean in the in the in the end, like the performance difference at three yards cartridges is just not gonna be enough to make a difference. Where what makes a difference is how how you shoot the rifle, how you shoot the round, if you can handle the recoil, if you're confident putting the bullet where it needs to go. Now, obviously you can't go and be shooting moose with you could, but I wouldn't recommend doing it with anything under probably a seven millimeter, which would be like a two. Right, you can shoot I'm sure you can shoot him with uh six fives and and get the job done. But something big, something bigger is just gonna have a little bit more impact and allow for a little bit more variance in your shot placement and still get the job done. So we're not advocating to go super small, but I do advocate that, like, you just got to be comfortable with your gun. No, you're a gun, and make sure that you're not just like way too under. You can't really be weight to you over because if the goal is to kill something, you can do it. But you can't get too over and have too much recoil which causes you to flinch and you're not making good shots. Um it can uh way too big of a gun gets more expensive to shoot. Uh yeah. So and I don't know, I think he was just asking about caliber. We can cover off on gun models later. The only thing I would say too, is like there's a lot of manufacturers out there pushing super not necessarily pushing, but making super light stuff. Man. I tell everybody, like, just lose a couple of pounds off your belly instead of the gun. You're gonna end up carrying the same amount of weight. Um, and you're gonna more than likely gonna shoot the heavier gun a little bit better. Those heavier rifles just sit still for you and they don't wobble around those These light rifles can be much more difficult to shoot. Just like we were talking about the tripods. You know, win can start a effecting that you're just gonna see it in the crosshairs, you know, all of you know, unless you've got your shooting form down perfectly, you know, the torque is going to affect the gun more lots of different variables, um So, And you pay for the lighter, lighter guns. So I would definitely recommend that you know, by a lighter tripod. You know, figure out your backpack in some other way to get it lighter. Like I said, just I feel like the hunters out there, it could probably pretty easily lose five uh pounds of extra weight they're just carrying on their body versus having take trying to spend you know, thousand dollars will lose it on their rifle. Um Like I said, the heavier rifle is just easier to shoot more accurately. Yeah. Yeah, Another thing I want to touch on with calibers too. If you're trying to choose a new caliber. Like I try to think about it too sometimes of how available old ammunition is, because like, in case something were to happen, like seven mm is pretty universal, easier to find it like a smaller town hardware store or something, if something were to happen, whereas likerc they might not have that, or especially like you know, really things that you're going to usually reload, like they might not even have anything similar to that. So I try to keep that in mind too, like can't get all wrapped up in it. But um, if you're not like a like a ballistics nerd and want to try these new whisbane cartridges and like really know what you're doing, like I personally would stick with the tried and true stuff that's going to be easier to find on the shelf. Yeah, and all of it still works great to seventies kill animals, thirty odd six is kill animals, seven millimeter wind meg meg um. You know, when I started guiding, like early two thousands, the WSM very new cartridge, you could have called it the Whizbank cartridge. Then it's stuck around right like people like the three WSM um. It's pretty commonly found now. I would say to like if you go into the gat local gas station. Yeah, there's a good chance they'll be a three WSM in there. PRC. Maybe that'll be like that, but it will be ten years from now, not not in the next couple So all things to think about. But I think getting a rifle that you're confident in and you can consistently practice with to make good shots is super important. Agreed. Now, all right, Jordan, tell everybody where to send further questions they like this, Yeah, yeah, wrapping it up. So, if you have a question that you would like us to answer, or you have UM ideas for a future podcast, you can send them into gear talk at the meter dot com and you can also hop on the meters website to the gear talk podcast page and you can comment on these specific episodes if you have a follow up question or something, and we'll try to get back to here, and then our personal instagrams you can hit up as well, UM, Janice, underscorepor tell us and then Jordan dot Bud and we'll add them to the list. One another thing, if you want to add add something to this particular conversation, you can go to the meter web page UM and find this podcast. UM particular podcast page, and then there's a comment section and you can add to the conversation that we just had today. Yeah. Perfect,

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