00:00:09 Speaker 1: From Mediators World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is Kel's we can review with Ryan Kel Kelly and now Here's Kel. Perry david Bys was arrested and charged with possession of stolen property in the first degree. According to the Idaho Statesman, for those of you who are unaware, possession of stolen property in the first degree is a Class B felony, which is fitting because what Perry david Bys was in possession of was roughly two thousand dollars in bees and bee hives. A sting operation led up to his arrest. Bees are incredibly important to well life on Earth. They pollinate all things growing, including our non meat foods, and including the food our meat food eats be They are also big business. According to the two thousand nineteen Honey Report, a queen bee would set you back about eighteen dollars. Package of newbies about a hundred and twenty five to a hundred and fifty and a thirty frame hive around a hundred and seventy bucks. The average market price for honey in two thousand nineteen was a dollar ninety seven per pound. The average hive produced fifty five point eight pounds of honey, meaning the average hive produced almost a hundred and ten dollars gross. Now that may sound like a losing proposition, but I'm told the honey business really sticks to you. Here's where the golden opportunity lies. The US consumed six hundred nine million pounds of honey in two thousand nineteen while only producing a hundred and fifty seven million pounds domestically, meaning we imported four hundred and fifty two million pounds of honey in two thousand nineteen, which when you think about the fact that the honey producing be we reaped the rewards from isn't actually native to the US. That's right. The honeybee didn't make it to North America until six two. But you know they do a really good job, so will ignore that little tidbit. Honey Bees are in constant threat from pesticides and herbicides. Pathogens are routinely found in both honey and bees wax. Occasionally, hives will completely collapse, as they did in two thousand and six and seven with what is now called c c D colony collapse disorder, something that we still don't fully understand. But the USDA points out that there is likely a connection between the presence of pathogens and the combination of natural b viruses brought on by mites, you know, tiny ones. On top of this threat, we have the much popularized threat of maybe a hand un full of honey bee eating Japanese hornets a k a. Murder hornets in the US. Despite all of this, over a hundred crops in the US are commercially pollinated by bees. May also interest you to know that one tablespoon of honey provides one and ninety kilo jewels of food energy. If you've been paying attention to President Trump, he's very interested in American energy dominance. So you know, followed the buzz and get into the honey business. One more fun fact for you the phrase mind your own bees wax that you hear from time to time. That got started by people who thought it more fun to say than you know, mind your own business. There are many theories out there about mind your own bees wax, some of them having to do with the ladies rubbing wax on their pock marks skin or people trying to build candles next to fire, but there is no reason to believe those stories at all, and the most likely version is. People just thought it was something fun to say. This week, we've got a helicopter story. But first I'm gonna tell you about my week. I have no idea what my friend Steven Ronella tells his kids about me, but occasionally they get very excited about dropping off recently procured food items at my house, which likely means their old man. They're old old father. Steve is telling the kids. I'm not good at finding food on my own. Most recently, I was the recipient of a few pounds of crayfish, not the rare blue crayfish of Illinois, which, by the way, I got an email from a listener confessing the fact that he, when he was growing up, was unaware of how rare the blue crayfish was, and had consequently eaten quite a few of them. Not that I of any rights or powers to do so, but I suggested that his conservation sins, if you will, would be fully absolved with a little paying it forward conservation work. You know the things we do when we are young and do not know anyway, regular old brown fish, crayfish from Montana, and a handful of morale mushrooms. I made a very nice shall at morale sauce, put that over some ravioli's and topped it all with crayfish tails. So keep it up, ranwa kids, I am also preparing to brave the covid world we live in. Get back on a plane and procure for my own some fish. In the state of Florida. I'm on the hunt for triple tail, which is a big perch. The odd thing about triple tail is well, one, I guess they're not very good looking. And uh, I'm speaking in general terms here. The species, through its natural behavior, has an almost self posed slot limit. The triple tail is most susceptible to fishing. When they come up to feed on the surface, they have a tendency to float next to any sort of debris, and they'll actually roll over and lay on their sides, resembling like a patch of moss or organic matter floating on the surface. In this way, they can ambush smaller fish that also come up to lay in the shadow of whatever is floating. Here's the interesting thing. It seems that by and large it is not the very very young triple tail or the old triple tail that do this. Only triple tale of just beyond juvenile stage have this behavior. So if it is primarily these fish in this age class being targeted, the triple tail has a species imposed slot limit. Some states are starting to regulate their triple tail catch, but not a lot is known about the fisheries. I'm very excited to go check it out. On top of that, everybody says they taste amazing. In fact, I know some folks who when they go out to target tripletale, they bring a fly rod, a spinning rod, and a spear gun. The fly rods for fun, the spinning rods, did you know, make sure it happens, And the spear gun is to really make sure it happens one way or another that fish is coming in the boat, which you know, it sounds like fun to me. Quick catch up from last week. Lots of folks wrote in, some from their tractor seats to let me know how they deal with fawns in their hey early in the season. I remember we talked about when you mow your hay, occasionally you mow some fawns that have been deposited in the hay. One person wrote in all the way from Norway saying his uncle will get hired out to fly his drone over certain fields to flush fawns away prior to cutting. Everyone else said basically the same thing. We just try to go slow, pay attention and be careful. Hey, just a heads up, I'm gonna spend a lot of time. I'm talking about the wilderness where mechanized tools are not legal. Instead of using a clean, quiet, electric steel chainsaw, for instance, you've got to use an old timey hand saw. But good news for you, folks, steel makes some high quality hardened cut through a down blog faster, and you can spit hand saws as well, so check those out the next time you need to strap something to the outside of a mule, you know, just in case. Moving on to the seldom visited backcountry aviation Desk, I've been teasing this one for a bit and there's more than I can actually tell you on this episode, So go to the meat Eater dot Com for the whole version. But just so you know, we're gonna be sticking with this one for a good chunk of time, So buckle up all right. Title thirty six of the Code of Federal Regulation to sixty one point one eight states the fallowing are prohibited in national forest wilderness possessing or using a motor vehicle, motor boat, or motorized equipment, except as authorized by federal law or regulation, possessing or using a hand glider or bicycle, landing of aircraft, or dropping or picking up of any material, supplies, or person by means of aircraft, including a helicopter. A violation of Title thirty six cfr To six one one eight is punishable by a fine not to exceed five hundred dollars, six months imprisonment, or both. On May six, Sam and Sarah Schwerin of Bozeman, Montana, flew their family in their Bell two oh six helicopter into the Bob Marcial Wilderness, setting down illegally about a mile upstream of black Bear Crept on the south Fork of the Flathead. The comp elements of black Bear Creek in the South Fork of the Flathead is only about nine miles as the crow or in this case, helicopter flies from the nearest legal air strip, which is Meadow Creek that's on National forest land outside of the wilderness. Sam self reported their landing to the f a A. On May eighteen, a pair of horn and black bear hunters, John Morris and Randy Bachman, reported the illegal motorized use to the Forest Service. On May nineteen, Sam Schwarren was fined five hundred dollars for violating Title thirty six CFR to sixty one point one eight. On June twelve, as previously mentioned on this podcast, the story broke in The Hungry Horse News, one of two Pulitzer Prize winning papers in the state of Montana that fled to sixty four was big news, I'll tell you anyway. After the story broke in h h M, the Schwerin's have been criticized heavily on social media and anywhere else their names appeared publicly. Sarah sits on several boards in and around the Gallatin Valley which do very good things, specifically for youth of the state. Several of these institutions have received phone calls asking or demanding that she stepped down from the boards on which she serves. A petition with over thirteen thousand, six d ten signatures on change dot Com titled accountability for Sarah and Sam Schwerin violating federal lawn Bob Marshal Wilderness popped up, asking for accountability and suggesting forfeiture of pilots licenses. Fishing licenses and a fine of one million dollars. Not sure how the designer of the petition came up with that number, I I don't know. Social media is not the place for justice, but public scrutiny can have the desired effect. Several years ago, Jason Chafas introduced a bill to sell off over two million acres of public land. It was most assuredly the hell fire of social media that made that Utah representative withdraw his bill and consequently post on social media one of the most awkward staged pro hunting slash outdoors pictures I have ever seen. Shortly after, Jason found his appropriate place at Fox News, not in the Woods. The frustration expressed in the comments sections of blogs, newspapers, and Facebook pages tend to focus on what was the intent? Did this couple who flew their helicopter know what they were doing? Did they intentionally land in the bomb? Whether they did or not, That day, just upstream of black Bear Creek at their landing site, while their kids fished, Sam and Sarah were approached by two men, John Morris and Randy Brockman. John and Randy were on the return leg of a two week long spring black Bear and shed hunting trip themselves in their pack string had been flown were three times by the helicopter. So anyway, when they were approaching the ford there black Bear saw the helicopter on the gravel bar. John and Randy decided to have a conversation with the Schwarens alongside their helicopter and its tail numbers. Sam invited them to take pictures of the tail numbers and stated that they were within the high water mark, which is public domain. Additionally, in the Bozeman Chronicle, in which the Schwarens issued a position statement, they stated that they had no idea that they were in the wilderness. John, who has described by Randy is uh someone who will pull over a speeding cop if he doesn't have his lights on and citizens arrest they're asked, became heated. John told me I must have said the F word ten times in two minutes. Really got under my skin. The now heated back and forth was eventually broken up by Sam, who suggested that John and Randy had better moved back as he was going to load up his family and leave. John Randy recorded the helicopter as it left the area on their cell phones, then continuing on up the trail where they reportedly ran into a day hiker from Whitefish area who had also seen the helicopter. John described this guy as one of those snowboard fitness types. He kind of made the point of making sure that I knew that the snowboard fitness type and John and Randy were on different sides of the recreational spectrum, but also at the same time made sure that I knew that they were on the right side of the law in that part of Bob, and he respected the guy for hiking in there. I guess all that was a long way of telling you that if these folks didn't know that they were in the Bob, they definitely did know they were in the Bob. After talking with John and Randy, the other point that keeps coming up is how could you possibly not know where the heck you are and helicopter. The helicopter in question is a Bell two oh six, which went into civilian production in the nineties seventies, many of which have and do operate near this area at the Bob. I reached out to minute Man Aviation out of Missoula, as they were running some helicopters in this area way back when when I was guiding up there, I spoke with Forrest gu minute Man Aviations Director of operations. Forrest was one of the very first operators at the Bell to oh six. He flew the military version, the O H fifty eight Kiowa and Vietnam. He told me in training they had many guns mounted on both sides of his aircraft, and you could go through three thousand rounds of ammunition pretty darn quick. That's just a fun aside for you. Forrest went on to say, as a civilian instructor as well as a pilot, he handled several of the two oh six is predecessors. Minute Man Aviation there in Missoula still owns two of I guess what you'd call the L series, which is a stretched version that accommodates a couple of extra passengers. Forest is even flown in the Bob Marshall and in Glacier National Park on occasion, but always legally with permission from the U. S. Forest Service or the National Park Service for research or rescue flights. Now back to the misconception of that helicopter has got to know where it's at. The helicopter in question is again forty years old and without looking inside myself. The answers just who knows what it has in it? Although Forest did say that Bell issues advisory directives a d S that sometimes require mandatory compliance on updates to the aircraft, just like a factory recall on your truck. These do not involve navigation equipment. The craft's annual inspection does not necessitate a GPS, and according to Forrest, gu flying started with Forest Service maps, then the Loran system, which if you've ever seen a World War two movie, the Loran system is probably that thing with the green screen and the blips and the sweeping arms and things. It's a radio to mess and then eventually GPS. So there's no telling what's in that craft because it doesn't have to have anything. He went on to say that he has personally seen students who literally got lost on takeoff. And it doesn't matter how good the electronics are if you don't know how to read them or make them work. But what about handheld devices? Everyone has a phone these days on X maps is a darned handy tool. Oddly enough, Sam Schwarren is a managing partner of Millennium, which, according to their website, is a company that partners with technology companies to design investment structures that foster long term growth from growth capital. But the point is one of Millennium's tech partners listed in February of two thousand eighteen is quite ironically on X maps. So what does that tell you? Honestly nothing. Millennium listed twenty two other investments in two is an eighteen And as we all know, just because you own some maps, or GPS or toothbrush for that matter, doesn't necessarily mean you use it. Just like a camera or bear spray doesn't do as much good in your pack as it does in your hand. But again, none of this matters, not if you believe in this notion of justice equal justice for all. Right, we don't have two sets of rules, one for folks with helicopters or with wealth, and then another set of rules for folks without the penalty of not to exceed five hundred and not to exceed six months imprisonment is the same for everyone. No one I could talk to knows of anyone getting imprisoned for this violation. But it does seem that Sam Schwerin was given the maximum allowable fine, meaning that it could have been less or possibly meaning that for a service. Law enforcement ought that the landing was intentional, so they recommended the max penalty. The U. S. Attorney's Office followed through with it case closed. Lauren Alley, the public affairs officer for the Flathead National Forests, provided this statement. Each United States judicial district establishes its own collateral amounts for each of the prohibited acts outlined in the Code of Federal Regulations. Those are the c frs I've been talking about. The federal judges in the District of Montana have set the collateral amount for this violation at five hundred dollars. While this incident has certainly generated a lot of attention, our law enforcement officers have the responsibility to investigate thoroughly and treat everyone fairly, regardless of public interest. We thoroughly investigate wilderness incursions by motor vehicles and encourage everyone to be good witnesses to crimes they encounter when safe to do so, and pass that inform asian on without delay. Thank you, Lauren Ali. I love the bob, I really do, and I suspect that many other people love it, which is why there have been so many darn keyboard warriors on social media trying to tear down someone who violated the most basic rule of wilderness with the capital W no mechanized travel. But here is the deal. Uh, this is not our job. Don't go beating up the violators when what bothers you is the fine. The CFRs, which were last amended in nineteen seventy seven possibly five, put both the public and the Forest Service in a tough spot. In nineteen seventy seven, five hundred dollars is the equivalent to about one hundred bucks right now. So in order to keep up with inflation, shouldn't CFR to sixty one point one eight be adjusted to read a maximum fine not to exceed? Or what if it as the change dot org author kind of suggested one million. There's frustrations on all sides. The Forest Service has neither the personnel to find site and prosecute every violator, nor does it have penalties that reflect the reverence people have for these areas. When a case gets made, what is the cost that goes into making a five dollar fine stick? How many man hours, how many personnel hours are involved? And when the fine is so low, does a case that makes the news like this one kind of sound like an invitation to those bad actors that we really need to fear, the ones with tons of money and no care for public opinion. John and Randy are horsemen, like to be the first ones through the bob in the spring. It's hard. There are avalanche paths that cover trails, lots of down trees. They have to cut their way through the bob with hand saws, all the while taking time, awful work to do it. But every year they do because it's fun and challenging to live this way. Five dollars does not cover the impact of a negative interaction in the woods. John Morris said, at the end of the day, Ryan, it just ruined my trip. I felt violated. There's no accountability. Rich McAtee, a broad shoulder, jovial, ginger bearded outfitter, is owner and operator a wilderness lodge and outfitting. Rich makes his living guiding, hunting, and fishing trips in and along the South Fork. He also provides a packing service where he takes folks thirty miles upstream and drops people and boats and beer and gear so they can float the length of the South Fork, which is a world class experience. Rich operates under a conditional use permit in order to provide these services. When I asked him just why this was his job, he says he has a passion for travel with horses and mules, and his reward for keeping them fed and healthy all year is being able to provide this experience to his customers, many of which, upon arrival are shocked to find out that you cannot use chainsaws or wheelbarrows in a wilderness area. Showing people that they have the ability to travel and live in a primitive way often makes the fishing or the elk icing on the cake. Rich goes on to say that even with a five dollar fine, hiring a helicopter would be less expensive to fly in a week's worth of float fishing or hunting gear than paying a packer to load that same material on a string of mules. If people started coming in here with helicopters, it would ruin my business. Being as a very few people in the U. S. Forest Service are able to speak on the record when they are currently employed. I had to dig down and dig up an old one. James chard Elli, a retired US Forest Service trail manager who in it out that the inability to truly enforce travel management plans, either through lack of enforcement or weak penalties, does nothing to help the relationship between the Forest Service and the public they serve. If you work your ass off to get the public involved in a travel management plan, then they see a lack of enforcement, you lose trust and you lose respect for the regulations. What's five dollars compared to packing and elk on your back for nine miles? His suggestion, what he would like to see is the confiscation of mechanized equipment. Kurt Steel, the Flathead National Forest Supervisor, was quoted in the official Department of Justice press release issued June six. We take concerns about the proper use of our national forests and wilderness areas very seriously. Many members of the public took the time to share their thoughts on this incident and their appreciation for the Bob Marshall Wilderness Complex. It is a world renowned jewel that plays an important role in the landscape, level ecosystem, and our tourism economy. We appreciate the public reporting these types of incidents so our Forest Service, law enforcement professionals, and partners at the Department of Justice can investigate and appropriately prosecute them. Montana is a state where you have to know where you are. There is no excuse for not no matter if you're on foot, horse, or helicopter. And people do still make mistakes, that is for certain. The question of whether or not this Bozeman couple made a mistake with intent or not is really a lame one. That's not the point. What we should focus on is if we hold our wilderness and forests and such high regard, as Kurt Steele said of the Bob a renowned jewel, shouldn't we at least update our regulations and the penalties for breaking them to reflect that. I'm not saying more regulations, to be clear, but updated regulations. Right now, we have a fine solo that it is likely a law enforcement officer with a pile of cases on their desk has bigger fish to fry. A willful lawbreaker is not intimidated by the fine, and the law abiding public loses faith when they see the laws being broken. I know this has been a long one. Thanks for sticking with me. I'll have the full version up on the Meat eater dot com. We'll get back to our regularly scheduled programming next week. Thanks again. Let me know what I'm missing by writing in to A s K C A L. At the meat eater dot com