00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Knucomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast. Brought to you by Tokvi's Boots. I'm a cowboy boot man and I've been wearing to Covis for years. The most comfortable boot I've ever put on. Good boots for good times. 00:00:46 Speaker 2: It's been a while since you've been on the Render it we let you have a little cool off period. 00:00:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good. After the last time. 00:00:53 Speaker 4: Yeah, after the incident. 00:00:54 Speaker 3: After the incident yet there was we're kidding dead. 00:01:01 Speaker 5: Almo just kicked off completely. But I got a reprieve and here I am. 00:01:08 Speaker 3: Well, it's good. We're glad to have you back. 00:01:11 Speaker 6: I knew better than coming in here and not wearing clothing. Yeah, I knew. 00:01:15 Speaker 3: I see that one. We cut that one. 00:01:21 Speaker 2: We've got uh we man, We've got the We've got the crew back together. Do we have Gary Believer? But we've got Brent Reeves here. I am ringing Wow after all that. No, it's not it's Dad. That's what gets you, That's what gets you on the rent of Brent. Great to see you. It's been a while. 00:01:45 Speaker 7: It has been as well, it's been it's been a while. I couldn't I head can't tell you. 00:01:50 Speaker 4: When it was. 00:01:51 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a while since you've been up here. 00:01:54 Speaker 8: I think it's when the meat Eater crew is here. 00:01:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, it probably was. Yeah. We also have doctor Misty Nukeomb with us. Happy to be here, and we've got Gary Nukkem in the Covis hot seat. 00:02:05 Speaker 3: Bear John Newcomb's here. 00:02:07 Speaker 1: We're gonna start off with uh, Josh Josh Langbridge spelmakers here. 00:02:12 Speaker 4: Oh there he is. 00:02:14 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I just with the immaculate mustache. 00:02:17 Speaker 6: Yep. 00:02:18 Speaker 3: Bear, tell us about your boat. 00:02:19 Speaker 2: What do you got, Well, this is the same boat I brought last time, but I've got turn. I've got something crazy on here, probably the craziest thing that I've worked with yet. I glued on last night a piece of a sperm whale tooth for the tip overlays on my boat. That was given to me by Alaskan guy David Bennett's. But the thing about sperm whale tooth is it has to be over one hundred It has to be grandfathered in before the marine Mammal Protection Act in order to be able to use it. And this so this sperm whale tooth, it's over one hundred years old. So cut some little piece off and put. 00:03:00 Speaker 4: It on the bow. 00:03:01 Speaker 9: Very cool, yea, very cool. 00:03:03 Speaker 3: And it's the Osae Grange bow. 00:03:05 Speaker 4: Yep. 00:03:06 Speaker 2: I got it shooting, got the handle finished up and U yeah. Now I'm just putting the art on it. Got some wood burning I'm going to do in it. 00:03:15 Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. 00:03:16 Speaker 9: What kind of art are we looking at? 00:03:18 Speaker 3: You'll just have to see. 00:03:19 Speaker 4: Okay, okay, patent pending. 00:03:24 Speaker 3: Excellent. 00:03:25 Speaker 2: Well, we're just going to go around the room here to do just a small show and tell for those of you that aren't watching the the YouTube video. 00:03:35 Speaker 3: I am. I'm wearing my new boxing gloves, boxing gloves. 00:03:39 Speaker 1: These are my black bear mits made to me by Jacob at New England Naturals on Instagram. And this is a prime black bear fur envision big huge mits that go up almost to your elbow, like to your forearm. Inside of these myts, though, is sheered beaver, so on the outside it's prime black bear, on the inside it's beaver. But the the the palls of it are leather and Marino wool. So there's actually some dexterity, like you know, you could like pick up rocks or or or ride a snowmobile, eat a hot dog, eat a hot dog. 00:04:24 Speaker 10: And also as you could, you could also draw two eyes hand puppets. 00:04:33 Speaker 8: It looks like it looks like a furry cookie monster. 00:04:35 Speaker 9: Convert to hand puppets. 00:04:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm really excited about these because I'm I'm soon to be. 00:04:44 Speaker 3: I'm soon to be the Far North. 00:04:46 Speaker 8: You're departing soon. 00:04:48 Speaker 1: To the Far North, and uh going to be in the most extreme temperatures on the globe for a while. 00:04:54 Speaker 3: So I'll be wearing. 00:04:56 Speaker 1: These these these aren't these aren't show bear these aren't for show. These are some go yeah, some socks, just a whole bear. 00:05:06 Speaker 7: Yeah, because everybody there's gonna be something up there wearing a bear suit. 00:05:11 Speaker 4: That wants to reach. 00:05:13 Speaker 3: No doubt doubt. 00:05:15 Speaker 1: Uh So we uh, I just want to say, as a like a news alert, the bear Grease YouTube channels up in Rolling. We've got three episodes up and the last episode was Cooking with Mom. 00:05:30 Speaker 3: I loved it was a banger. 00:05:31 Speaker 8: I loved it made me want to eat eggrolls real bad. 00:05:34 Speaker 10: Yeah, they looked good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a lot of fun. 00:05:38 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:05:38 Speaker 1: So so there was a hog hunt with Bear with a self bow where he killed a hog. There was a squirrel hunt, and then now this one, and again if you went there, you wouldn't. You'd be looking at what appears to be a fully built out YouTube channel with you know, on eighty five that eighty something thousand subscribers. And that's because me and Bear pretty much when Bear was a little kid. I'm gonna give Bear the credit for it. We started a YouTube channel and at the time is Bear Hunting Magazine, And there's a bunch of the stuff on there that Brent filmed for me, a whole lot of the films on there. 00:06:16 Speaker 3: Before he was Brent, back when he was just cameraman, Brent Reeves cameraman. He didn't even have a name, I didn't. He just was like cameraman. 00:06:28 Speaker 8: And I don't get introduced on the render anymore. 00:06:32 Speaker 2: So the the we just changed the name of the channel. 00:06:37 Speaker 3: Bear is primarily taking it over. 00:06:40 Speaker 1: But I mean I'll be on there, some Brent's gonna be on there, some brenton Bear film. 00:06:44 Speaker 6: Yea. 00:06:45 Speaker 2: This week I filmed a little coon hunt with a bowl with a bow. 00:06:49 Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, next week. 00:06:51 Speaker 2: Next week, We've got an elk hunt with the self bow that I did in New Mexico where I stayed in the cabin that is seen on the movie Lonesome Dove, and I'd hike out of there every morning and go el hunt. 00:07:03 Speaker 3: That's a twist, Yeah, how cool. It was a super cool trip. What what else we got coming up on the bear grease? 00:07:10 Speaker 2: So the week after that, we've got a hawk trapping video where I went down to South Texas with my buddy Aaron Kincaid and. 00:07:19 Speaker 3: We trapped Harris hawks. He's a he's a falconer. 00:07:22 Speaker 2: We trapped Harris socks out of the wild and then he trained him for six weeks and then we went hunting with him in North Carolina. So it's a pretty crazy video. But we're gonna we're gonna get into a lot of the kind of the ethics around it, but also the just partnership with the natural world that you don't really think about whenever you're thinking about falconry. But it's this ancient sport. It's it's as ancient as far as we have written history of and it's it's it's just like using a dog, except you're actually going and trapping it out of the wild. 00:07:56 Speaker 3: It's it's it's really wild. 00:07:59 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:08:00 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm looking forward to that one. 00:08:01 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 00:08:02 Speaker 1: We also have a hog hunt on Mules and Oklahoma with Dale Brisbee. 00:08:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, alter of Turnpike Tributors coming up. 00:08:11 Speaker 1: We went over there, had a big expedition with those guys over in Oklahoma. That's going to be an episode on that channel. 00:08:20 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:08:21 Speaker 1: So lots of cool stuff coming up. We've also got a real. 00:08:25 Speaker 2: Bear grease Instagram page which you can catch all the action. 00:08:30 Speaker 4: You bet there. 00:08:32 Speaker 1: And you guys are going to be at the Black Bear Bonanza, is that right, Brent? 00:08:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, March seventh, March. 00:08:38 Speaker 8: Seventh, that's neck. Well when this comes out, it'll be that Saturday after this comes out. Wow, So yeah, yep, three days after this comes out. 00:08:46 Speaker 3: So the Black Bear Bonanza in Bentonville. 00:08:49 Speaker 4: Bentonville be there or b Square said. 00:08:52 Speaker 1: What do y'all know about? So it's unfortunate. This is one of my favorite events of the year. But I won't be there, but someone better than me will be there, completely better than me. 00:09:06 Speaker 3: Brian Callahan. 00:09:07 Speaker 10: Okay, all of us thought it was going to be us exactly. 00:09:11 Speaker 7: We were all, yeah, well you you shouldphrase that as somebody else better than. 00:09:17 Speaker 3: Me, someone else better than me. 00:09:20 Speaker 2: Along with Brent Josh Bear, you might be there, miss him, not sure make a cameo. But Brian Callahan, who's now the CEO of Back Country Hunters and English who are who are doing the hard work of con preservation of wild lands and hunting rights in this country. 00:09:41 Speaker 3: They truly are. 00:09:42 Speaker 1: I had a guy that I really value and appreciate this morning. Send me something out here in Arkansas about a dog related issue. Basically, they're trying to make it where all dogs, any dog turned loose in the state has a track and train collar on it where you can track it and you could tone the dog to get it. You could shock the dog essentially to get it back if it crossed on the private land. Boy, that sounds really great. I mean, it's it's hard to even argue with except that it probably will functionally shut down any kind of pack dog pack hunting in the state. I mean, like when you run deer with dogs and you need more than one dog, like the coon hunters, is not that big a deal. Most coon hunters probably have that already on their dog. 00:10:27 Speaker 7: Most No, I think that's gonna be. It would be and I know this is not what we're talking about, but I'm not for it at all. I think it would be a if I was just getting into it as a young man. That stuff is expensive. Yeah, it's gonna keep some folks out that. 00:10:42 Speaker 4: Want to do it right. I'm absolutely not for that at all. 00:10:46 Speaker 1: Well, it's it's just it's an issue, you know, and uh and you know I'm currently addressing it here. But it's it's basically legislation that is in advert certainly going to dramatically hurt hound hunting. But at the same time, like private landownership issues deserve to be addressed because I could be a private landowner and people's dogs are constantly running through my land and I don't like that. I mean, I understand that we just have to acknowledge that, and I think dog hunters like me have to acknowledge that. 00:11:23 Speaker 3: So what's the solution. 00:11:24 Speaker 7: I don't know how to control of your dogs. I can control I can call my dog away from a tree. 00:11:32 Speaker 3: Could yeah, with your track and train though. 00:11:35 Speaker 4: No, with my voice. 00:11:37 Speaker 3: Well I saw it. 00:11:38 Speaker 1: Oh, I believe that it's a different story when you've got packs of dogs running big game though, because they're long ways off in different places. So it's so those are the kind of things and to me, that's like a bigger issue of as well, talk to your talk to your there's there's questions on the game and fish right now. Point of all this is that there's issues going on all over the place. Can y'all take me seriously, we're gonna talk about the fur band in Colorado. 00:12:15 Speaker 3: It's guys like Ryan Callahan. 00:12:17 Speaker 1: I think Dan Gates and those guys with Coloradden's for Responsible Wildlife Management are doing a great job. 00:12:24 Speaker 2: How for wildlife doing an incredible job North American Bear found. 00:12:29 Speaker 1: I mean you could just go through the Wild Sheep Foundation, National Wild Turkey Federation, Turkey's for tomorrow, just like everybody's doing all this stuff. 00:12:37 Speaker 3: So bear great segue into I like t actually is going on? 00:12:45 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of us don't like to talk about really what's going on. 00:12:50 Speaker 3: We need a name for this segment to be thinking bears Conservation corner. Yep, oh yeah, there we go, Conservation. 00:12:58 Speaker 4: Corner now so so we know quit thinking now? Yeah yeah? Thinking? Okay? Done? 00:13:03 Speaker 2: Okay, Well you were talking about the fur band. That's what we're talking about today. Yeah, so basically, I've got my notes here pulled up. Colorado is trying to make it to where you can no longer sell furs, so like trapping and you know, trapping coyotes and beavers and stuff like that can no longer go up on the fur market. And it's not based off of any scientific evidence, is the issue. It's based off of a lot of politics and a lot of like basically, yeah, the you know, like wild life is managed by the state, and there's biologists for every critter that know exactly what that population is and they're studying it, making sure that all the numbers are good, and they're the ones who need to be setting the regulations for what can be taken out and what needs to be left alone. But in Colorado, what's happening is it is not those guys that are making the regulations. 00:14:06 Speaker 3: It's the politicians. 00:14:09 Speaker 2: And so there on May, Okay, March fourth and fifth, here's what you can do about this. March fourth and fifth, you can actually, sorry, you could actually go in person to a hearing in Denver, Colorado. May sixth and seventh, there's another one, and you could you can do it online, you can do it virtually. You could say something about it, you could write into the senators, or you could actually go in person to that event. But the key here is that we can't let the wildlife be managed by people who don't understand the science behind it. It needs to be scientifically regulated and that falls within the North American model of wildlife conservation. 00:15:00 Speaker 3: The further away we. 00:15:01 Speaker 2: Get from that, the less and less opportunity that we'll have, which ultimately will result in the fewer and fewer wild places that we. 00:15:10 Speaker 4: Have to go. 00:15:11 Speaker 7: So the dates that you're talking about, in those places, that's where citizens and voters can can make their opinions known. 00:15:19 Speaker 8: Yeah, voice their opinions in public. 00:15:21 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:15:21 Speaker 2: So if you live near Denver, you would you would be someone that might could consider going to something like that. But you can find all the addresses and everything on the Colorado's for Responsible Wildlife Management website and Instagram. 00:15:37 Speaker 10: It really does make a difference when people show up to that kind of stuff. It's good if you don't live near there to join online, but that's it really. In legislative circles, it makes a difference. The body count in the room. 00:15:48 Speaker 8: MM hmm a set of engagement. 00:15:50 Speaker 3: Yep. 00:15:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, good job Bear, Bear's conservation corner. Nice work, yes, BC, yep, yep, No, I do. I want to find ways to just continue. I mean the part of being a hunter in the days ahead and love and wild places. It's going to be just being more of an activist and understanding what's going on. So it's just part of what we do. So that's good. 00:16:15 Speaker 6: Brent. 00:16:16 Speaker 2: It's been so long since you've been here. I'm craving a story from Brent Reids. 00:16:25 Speaker 7: I was reminded just Bear came down for this video it's coming out when everyone on the baggery thing, and he said, he calls me. He says, I do you think that Whaling could treat a bear? That I could cheat with my boat? And my immediate response was that and I thought, COO, yeah, I'm sorry coon. 00:16:50 Speaker 4: Uh. And I actually talked about it on the podcast that came out this morning. Uh. 00:16:55 Speaker 7: And my immediate response was the question is do you think you could shoot a coon that my dog, Whaling could tree? Because I know he could treat one. So he came down. We got days together. He came down and he studied the house and for two nights we chased him, and. 00:17:15 Speaker 4: It was a valiant effort. 00:17:17 Speaker 7: I'm not going to give you anything a well, he can talk about what anything in particulars that happened in there. But on the second night, I squalled a coon down a tree to get it lower, and calamity ensued. And it reminded me of a hunt that my dad and I went on when I. 00:17:36 Speaker 4: Was just a kid. 00:17:37 Speaker 8: I was. 00:17:39 Speaker 4: In high school. 00:17:40 Speaker 7: I think I was a junior in high school and I just got a new coon dog, and I had just had an appindectomy that kept me from playing in a football game. So instead of playing that game, as soon as it was over with, I got to leave. Me and my dad went counha and to take this puppy out. So Dad, we got to find something easy. And I got this stitch I had stayed and where my appendix had been, and I was sore moving around. He said, well, I know where there is a per ceme tree. We'll go over there and it's probably loaded with precimons. And we drive over. This place is right from an old chicken house, and sure enough it was. It was loaded because when we turned the corner and they had like a Christmas tree. All the eyes were looking looking at us. Any wasn't that The tree wasn't very big, So we. 00:18:24 Speaker 4: Pulled up to it. I got the dog out and let him out, and he's just he's just a puppy. 00:18:27 Speaker 7: He don't know what he's doing. And Dad so we need one of them coons down here on the ground. Well, when he said that, I started going up the tree. I started climbing up the tree and he's like, oh no, son, don't, don't you gonna tear your stables loose. I like, I'm good, I'm fine. So I got up there with him and I started shaking them and there's like five or six coons up there and they all hit the ground. Well, my dad and the dog was there. There wasn't another tree within one hundred yards of where we was at, so they all started coming right back up the tree I was in, and it kind of it got kind of loud and a little way that stiring up there for a little bit. I got coons going behind me beside me, crossing my leg and I shake the other one out and then finally it runs over and goes up on the fence post and I get down all the other coons are still up in the tree, so I get down and my dad said, we need we need that dog to wrestle when them coons do a little fight. And he said, I'm gonna find something kind of addle that coon that's on the fence post there and get him down there, and maybe that puppy he'll will wrestle, will fight him a little bit. And the only thing we could find we didn't have the tire to it was in the back of the truck that we tried to that's all. That's a told whole different story. But the only thing we could find was a board laying on the ground there. He said that said, I got this board here, and he said it's too heavy for you to pick up. You'll tear them staples loose. And it was a two to twelve and it was twelve foot long. It weighed it had been laying out in the rain. There's no time how much it weighed a hundred pounds or so. And my dad picked it up. Is all he could do to hold it. So that's what he's got. 00:20:00 Speaker 4: This thing. It was like a helicopter blade. And he said, I'm. 00:20:03 Speaker 7: Just gonna he said, I'm just going to kind of just touch him on top of the head when I'm when and knock him off that fence post and the dog and fight him was going to just instill the vigor and the fire in him. The hell would start chasing these coons. And he swung that thing around and hit that coon, and it was all he could do to swing it. And when he did, his aim was just a little off and he hit that tune, got coon on the top of the head and killed him dead. 00:20:27 Speaker 4: For he hit the ground. He just he fell off the post. 00:20:31 Speaker 7: The dog run over there and made two or three sniffs and looked back at us, like, what's the big deal about? 00:20:36 Speaker 4: Coonon? And that was the story. 00:20:40 Speaker 7: So we loaded the dog up and he eventually made a pretty decent dog. But it wasn't from that night. It was just way too much going on. It reminded me. 00:20:50 Speaker 3: Of Buddy Reeves and the helicopter coon. 00:20:52 Speaker 4: Yeah, it reminded me of the what me and Bear did the other night. It was it got loud there for a while, didn't it. Well, it was it was loud that it. 00:21:02 Speaker 1: So Brent's always trying to get us to get a walker, and Bear is now and I hunted plots for a long time. 00:21:11 Speaker 3: Have I am now one for seven on plot coon dogs basically. 00:21:20 Speaker 1: And bears thinking about getting a dog, thinking about getting the blue tick, much to the chagrin of Brent. 00:21:27 Speaker 7: Now there's a there is a famous line of dogs, the blue Ticks, out of Arkansas, and now they're in Arkansas and in Missouri and they're very good and. 00:21:35 Speaker 3: I can't is it Vaughn? 00:21:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's them, Vaughn blue Ticks. Yeah. Yeah, they're they're good dogs. 00:21:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there's some pretty good blue ticks. 00:21:43 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:21:44 Speaker 2: Whenever I went coon hunting with Brent, I was reminded of how much I enjoyed coon hunting. It's a it's a fun way to hunt because you can bring people and have a good time. Like there's no pressure on the hunt at all. It's not like you have to be quiet or anything. 00:21:59 Speaker 7: Yeah, we were sitting there drinking coffee and talking about everything and yeah total. Of course we were toting arrows too, so that was. 00:22:07 Speaker 4: A lot of element. 00:22:10 Speaker 2: Now I'll tell you something interesting, though, is we shot at two coons total. 00:22:15 Speaker 3: The first night. 00:22:16 Speaker 2: I shot at one and it's too high up in the tree, and so I didn't the arrows didn't have enough power by the time they got there, but they'd go flying past this coon into the woods hundreds of yards away, and I would just think, there's no way I'm finding those arrows. But I walked in a straight line from where I shot it in all ten of my arrows were within like twenty feet. 00:22:37 Speaker 1: Are you you shot ten times? 00:22:40 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, and one arrow got stuck up in the tree right next to the coon. 00:22:46 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:22:48 Speaker 7: Film on the cowboy moved there for a little bit, and it wasn't now, it wasn't hundreds of yards, it was tens of yards. 00:22:59 Speaker 3: They weren't going that far. 00:23:00 Speaker 7: No, well they would so so yeah, yeah. 00:23:05 Speaker 2: It was probably like the second coon is probably like sixty yards from where we were shooting at it. 00:23:11 Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, yeah, the arrows were and I said, you know, we should have thought and put some reflective tape on this thing. 00:23:18 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh that would be. 00:23:20 Speaker 7: And then when we walked out there, it was like here's one, here's one, here's one. 00:23:25 Speaker 8: So you found all of them. 00:23:27 Speaker 3: I came in there with a dozen and I left. 00:23:29 Speaker 4: Out of there with eight. 00:23:29 Speaker 3: That's pretty good. 00:23:31 Speaker 4: Was it? 00:23:31 Speaker 3: Big bottom lands though? Kind of open ground? 00:23:34 Speaker 4: Well, we had. 00:23:35 Speaker 7: We had initially hunted this place because it's got, it's got a ridge, it's got it's full of black jack oaks and they're maybe thirty feet tall, and I've tree coons in there all the time. They're fifteen feet off the ground, which would have been just perfect for him to come down there and shoot with this with his self bow. But it's been so dry there wasn't any coons in there. And I hunted there four nights in a row trying to find up there, and they were all down in the bottom down. Oh, so that was the shortest timber in that area that that we went to. 00:24:07 Speaker 2: Both both coons were at about forty foot or a little over. 00:24:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was our estimate. 00:24:13 Speaker 3: It was a poke forty foot. Yeah, that's a long ways. 00:24:15 Speaker 2: The second one, my arrows they weren't quite making it up there, so that's why we squalled it down. 00:24:23 Speaker 3: But you can watch the full video here. 00:24:24 Speaker 2: In a couple of weeks happened, lots of suspense, lots of suspense. 00:24:32 Speaker 8: I'll be waiting until noon, soon as noon. That video better be. 00:24:35 Speaker 3: Out noon on Wednesday. 00:24:46 Speaker 1: So, speaking of the arrow that's stuck in the tree, that will one day be cut down. 00:24:52 Speaker 3: By a logger. 00:24:53 Speaker 9: Okay, we just nice. 00:24:55 Speaker 1: We just came out with a series called American Logger, and we we had the the lines cousins and brothers on the last render from part one and and part if you if you haven't caught up on it and just maybe you're maybe you're new to the podcast and you know our render. This this podcast is where we talk about really what we're here to do. My my, my main thing that I enjoy doing is these bear grease documentary style episodes. And we we talked to Cody and Klein Velnes about their multi generational history with their father's grandfather and even further back than that of logging into the ozarks. And these guys are logging, uh cutting trees by hand, which that's a phrase that would be used in the industry because so much of it now is mechanized and they're cutting trees with big cutters and uh, and there's a lot of people that's still cut by hand. It's not like it's unheard of. Cut by hand doesn't mean a hand powered saw. It means using the chainsaw cut trees. But uh, it's a it's a it's a dangerous dangerous. 00:26:05 Speaker 3: Occupation. We you know, the Bureau of Labor. 00:26:09 Speaker 1: Statistics shows that logan is I'm pretty sure it's still the most dangerous industry in America. Really yeah, but it's but it's less dangerous than it was. In nineteen ninety there was. 00:26:24 Speaker 2: One hundred and twenty eight deaths per one hundred thousand. 00:26:29 Speaker 3: Loggers in America. 00:26:31 Speaker 1: Wow, which which the number two was commercial fishing, which Brent is a commercial fisherman. 00:26:37 Speaker 8: That's right, he's done. 00:26:39 Speaker 1: It was like in the fifties or sixty per one hundred thousand, so you can see it was almost I think it was double the amount of guys that were getting killed by logan, and I explained this on episode one. But today logan is much safer, and I think there's in the like sixty, well just between the fifty and one hundred logger deaths per one hundred thousand. But so it's come way down and it might even be in the sixties. It was unclear to me, like today what that statistic is though it had come down a lot, and it was a lot because of mechanization, but the danger still exists. And I just found it so interesting that these guys that I knew who. I mean, I didn't pick them. They were just randomly the guys that I knew and was friends with. And I've known they were loggers for as long as I've known them, and I've talked to them about it and always been intrigued by it. But it's not like they're doing anything really even that unique in that part of the world, in the industry here in the Ozarks, and it's like, hey, do y'all have any stories of nearly getting killed? 00:27:52 Speaker 3: And it's like filling up. I mean, they didn't even. 00:27:56 Speaker 1: Those were Those were just the stories they told, just almost off the cuff, I mean, without even much preparation, and you kind of started to see how dangerous that logging is. And so this part two, Part Part one was Kaitlin and Cody, who were about my age, a little bit younger in the early forties, guys in our prime, you know, as we say. But on the second episode we talked to Teddy Vilaines, who is who is Cody's father, and he told some wild stories. 00:28:36 Speaker 2: Dad, what stood out to you about the episodes? Did you enjoy them? 00:28:40 Speaker 6: Oh? 00:28:41 Speaker 4: I really did. 00:28:42 Speaker 6: I enjoyed their character. 00:28:44 Speaker 5: Wonderful, wonderful family and I guess my favorite story, even though I enjoyed every second of it, but when a guy got I think it was Teddy got the chainsaw all. 00:28:57 Speaker 6: Hung up in his shoulder. 00:28:58 Speaker 5: Yeah, running, you know, well, there's a lot of there's a lot to look at there. 00:29:05 Speaker 6: I mean, he had some old equipment. 00:29:07 Speaker 5: The breaker bar was broken and another piece was broken, and he could he wouldn't stop. It's running in his stinking shoulder and the muscle's falling off, and he just kept working. You know. He finally got it out, got his finger where he could get it out, and he like, hey, man, patch this thing up. 00:29:29 Speaker 6: We got a load of logs. We got to get out of here. 00:29:33 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:29:33 Speaker 5: So anyway, I mean there, they're amazing people, dedicated people. 00:29:41 Speaker 4: You know. 00:29:41 Speaker 5: The objective was to make a living for their stinking family at all costs and do it with integrity. Very impressive, very impressive. 00:29:53 Speaker 4: It is, it is. 00:29:54 Speaker 3: And man, those those story. 00:29:57 Speaker 1: You know, when you're around people and maybe you've you've you've come into their circle and you just start hearing their stories. 00:30:05 Speaker 3: And I do that a lot in this podcast. 00:30:08 Speaker 1: Just interviewing people, you you quickly see kind of an emphasis that comes from just the lifestyle that they live, and these guys talk a lot just about toughness, honestly, but it doesn't come It struck me, especially with Teddy and Kaylen Cody. It doesn't come from a place of bravado. I'm macho, masculine, I'm tougher than you. You get that sometimes and that that's not that appealing for somebody. 00:30:36 Speaker 3: You understand what I'm saying. Teddy. 00:30:38 Speaker 2: When Teddy told that story that, he's just like, well, you asked me if anything crazy ever happened, this happened. 00:30:46 Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't. It wasn't. 00:30:48 Speaker 1: I've known those guys for quite a long time and he's never told me that story, you know. But I want to emphasize that because you you might. I noted that like, they're not trying to be macho. It's just kind of the lifestyle and that. But they do value that toughness and it's not just toughness for toughness sake. I think there's a lot behind it. 00:31:12 Speaker 5: I mean, you know another thing I noticed about that, and I've experienced it. We all have, I think women experiences. But you know, you're out in the woods, you're doing things, and you're you're hot, you're tired, and you sit down and eat a sandwich with a buddy. I mean that's like going to Disneyland. And I mean they treasured that time where they could sit down and talk and eat a thinking blowney sandwich probably, and I mean they loved it. 00:31:44 Speaker 6: And uh it was just. 00:31:46 Speaker 5: Uh the stuff they're doing seemed extreme, but we all experienced a. 00:31:53 Speaker 6: Little of it in our own little world, you know. 00:31:56 Speaker 5: And uh, they they're just high character. 00:32:01 Speaker 4: You know. 00:32:02 Speaker 3: They had a lot of camaraderie. They value that. 00:32:05 Speaker 1: I mean even Cody at the end, he summed it up so well. He was basically like, Clay, you asked. 00:32:10 Speaker 2: Me about the danger stuff, and I've told you those stories, he said, But that's not what I think about when I think of logging, he said, I think about the good days when nothing bad happened and we got a little logs out and we didn't almost die and we had a good sandwich together at lunch. 00:32:25 Speaker 6: Yeah. You know, one thing too, I think was really cool. 00:32:30 Speaker 5: They knew from communicating what people wanted to hear. 00:32:36 Speaker 6: I mean they don't want to hear. You know. We went out and got a. 00:32:39 Speaker 5: Lot of logs, we got paid it was so wonderful. We want to hear the tragedy. Yeah, and you know they acknowledge that that. You know, they they have these stories if you want to hear them. Yeah, and people that's what they want to hear, you know, Yeah, that's what I want to hear. 00:32:57 Speaker 6: Yeah. So they're entertaining. 00:33:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're good storytellers. Yeah, they're good storytellers. Brent, what you listen to them? What do you think? 00:33:08 Speaker 7: Man, Well, to go along with what Gary said, it's a sense of duty that they had about the toughness. I mean, they were absolutely tough as woodpecker lips, but they it was just what they had to do to get the job done. 00:33:27 Speaker 3: Can't take it. 00:33:33 Speaker 2: Hey, not not to derail the conversation, but the other day, Brent and I were at National Wild Turkey. 00:33:39 Speaker 1: This is totally derailing the conversation. We're at National Wild Turkey Federation. Brent, We're in the same hotel room. Bears on the floor. I'm in a bed, Brent's another bed. Brent wakes up, goes to the bathroom. He doesn't know anyone's listening. I'm like asleep over there, and he walks into this little bitty bathroom and I hear him mumble under his breath. This is He said, it's so small in here. You couldn't cuss a cat without getting hair in your mouth. 00:34:06 Speaker 4: A little bathroom. 00:34:07 Speaker 1: And I woke up, like out of sleep, and I said, what did you just And he said, you couldn't cuss a cat in there without getting hair in your mouth. 00:34:17 Speaker 3: And he said, my grandma used to say that. 00:34:19 Speaker 2: He just went on, brushed his teeth. Yeah, went on about his day, carry on. What do you think about the logging episode, Well, toughest woodpecker lips. 00:34:27 Speaker 4: Yeah. And it wasn't out of I'm so tough. I can do this. It's I I have to do this to provide for my family. I broke my collar bone when. 00:34:38 Speaker 7: I was a senior in high school and I have yet. Unless my mother hears about this, she will this will be when she learned about it. 00:34:48 Speaker 4: But it wasn't. 00:34:49 Speaker 7: I kept playing football because it's you can feel it right here. It's sidesteps that for the folks that ain't seeing my hands, it's it grew back wrong, m hm. Because I loved playing football so much. But I felt a sense of duty to all the folks on my team to stay there and now changed all my arm I'm probably gonna tell somebody, Yeah, but I get that sense of duty and my profession that I worked in for so long. That was how I was able to make it through a lot of places and a lot of things, and a lot of the folks that worked with me were was because we trusted each other and we depended on each other for so much that that sense of duty is very very strong, and the same with you know, taking care of your family. It's I got a lot out of it. I appreciated listen to it, and it was very good. 00:35:45 Speaker 1: What I appreciate about tapping in and what I would try to do every time I would talk to Teddy the lines and those guys people like that every single episode of Bear Grease. If I if I could, like I liked tap and then the people who never dreamt their stories would be told to the world. 00:36:04 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like. 00:36:05 Speaker 1: Teddy Viliines, he wasn't doing that so he could tell a story. And I valued that, yeah, authenticity. And I was just thinking about that just in terms of just yeah, just kind of the rugged nature of what they're doing. 00:36:23 Speaker 7: It's just one of those things that I mean that was what was that Wednesday? Yeah, that happened on Wednesday, but Thursday was a great day. Yeah, yeah, nothing happened on Thursday. 00:36:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, Misty, what do you think? Well, you want to put the bear gloves on? 00:36:39 Speaker 9: I would, I'd like to stick the cup of hands. I'm good. 00:36:43 Speaker 10: I don't have the colorful analogies that Brent has, but I thought I thought it was pretty amazing. You know, I had two grandpas, a great grandpa on my dad's side and a grandpa on my mom's dad. They were both loggers, and so we kind of heard pretty crazy logging story is growing up, and so a lot of that was familiar. And as I was listening to their stories, one of the things that kind of stuck out to me as he was telling the story about the truck, you know, going high speed down the hill. 00:37:15 Speaker 9: I was listening to it. 00:37:17 Speaker 10: One morning and there was just a lot, there was a lot going on in my world, and I was trying to, you know, resolve some problems, solve resolve some some kind of complex situations. And I was listening to that and he was talking about this crazy situation where this truck flying down the mountain and he's gonna die and he's got he's calculating all this stuff, and he just says, Lord help me. 00:37:41 Speaker 9: And and I. 00:37:42 Speaker 10: Thought, you know, there's some of the things that people that people do. There's some and or they used to do. There's there's a level of simplicity when when everything you know, when you're in a high risk, high danger situation, everything all the other options go away. Like he's thinking through the complex things like if I get in that field, I'm going to or if I if I hit that go over here, I'm going to hit the bluff. And you know, so he's thinking through all these things. But at the end of the day, it's just like, Lord help me. There's really not much left but that. And and this was before he got to kind of the point of the story, and I just thought, man, that's there are a lot that's a simple solution and a good solution, like the best solution. And then he goes on to talk about just you know, you're not in control, you're not in control. And he kind of got to that place rapidly as his life, you know, could have had minutes left in it, you know, as he was as he was calculating what he needed to do, and he got he got to this most simple solution, and I just thought, there's a I think sometimes life can be so complex, so and that really those simple solutions still still work. Still still Lord helped me work for about every solution, every problem you got, you know that that that'll help. And then when his son was talking about it and he said, and I just saw him, and I just. 00:39:02 Speaker 9: Said, oh, Lord, help him, Lord Lord. 00:39:04 Speaker 10: And that was kind of both of their both of their response and that in that situation, and I just thought, you know, that we could simplify things a whole lot. 00:39:12 Speaker 9: And I kind of thought about my own situation that that that I was. 00:39:16 Speaker 10: Dealing with, and I think, I think raising kids, raising a family, there's just a whole lot of challenges that come in and and I've got some ideas about those things. I've got ideas about raising kids, but I've got ideas about you know, I've got degrees and child development and family and and at. 00:39:34 Speaker 9: The end of the day, sometimes just all that stuff. 00:39:37 Speaker 3: Knowed is powerful. 00:39:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, That's that's what I said in the podcast about what Teddy said, because somebody might somebody might hear that, and in that moment, in that situation, he said he learned that God was in control. And it's like, well, why would that be important? I mean, because that's not actually an answer to the to the to the problem. I mean, the answer to the problem would have been to the truck to stop, or for for it never to have happened, or or for him to have been able to turn it and gain control. And and that's I just got to thinking about it, like why is it so? 00:40:19 Speaker 2: Why is it so revelational? Like it's not intellectual knowledge. 00:40:22 Speaker 1: There's a probably not out of ten Americans, maybe seven out of ten would say God's in control? 00:40:31 Speaker 3: But why is it valuable? And and and I. 00:40:34 Speaker 1: Think it's really about, like what I said about reality, there's something that shifts inside of us when when we recognize its truth to the situation. 00:40:46 Speaker 7: It's helpful for the next time you get in that bind. You know that's sending pop. 00:40:50 Speaker 3: One of those out rather than milk and along. When do you have one? 00:40:56 Speaker 6: What whether he deals there? 00:40:58 Speaker 3: Are you trying to get it out? 00:40:59 Speaker 6: No? Oh, I'm playing with it. Don't do that. 00:41:04 Speaker 3: This will get you kicked off the render. 00:41:07 Speaker 4: Right now, I'm thinking, Lord, help Gary with that racket. 00:41:12 Speaker 3: I thought you were trying. 00:41:12 Speaker 1: I thought you're trying to slow Like when you're in church and you're unwrapped, unrap you know, unwrapping butterscotch or something. 00:41:19 Speaker 6: You can actually hear that. 00:41:21 Speaker 10: I got ears like an eagle really doesn't, he's got very weak. 00:41:27 Speaker 7: But realizing that will help you get to through the next thing with confidence. Yeah, you know that what it is, what is is what it is. Now you can you have you can control your fate, your destiny. You know, you can getting sleeping bag laid down in the highway and your chances of survival are lot slimmer than sleeping in the in the woods. 00:41:53 Speaker 4: You know, but. 00:41:56 Speaker 7: You your path now getting into all that, it's just it's comforting to know that if you keep your mind right and you priorities in order, it's can work out probably the way it's supposed to do. 00:42:11 Speaker 4: Whether you live through it or not, that's not our plan. 00:42:15 Speaker 6: Mm hm. 00:42:16 Speaker 2: Bear what stood out to you, Well, the first thing that stood out to me was similar to what I said last week, but I feel like Teddy kind of emphasized it a little more this week. But one thing that he said was I hate clear cutting. Like he said it passionately. He hates clear cutting, And I thought that was interesting, just again a look inside of the reality of what the laggers are doing, and especially loggers that already lived their life close to the land that you know, they really rely on the resource. Therefore they want to protect it. They're not clear cutting, whereas like I would imagine a big company would be much more likely to just go clearcut someplace and destroy the habitat. So I thought that that was interesting, but also kind of like what you guys were saying was like the whenever, whenever he was going down the hill in that truck, how the reality of a very simple principle kind of like made it past his mind into his heart in that moment and he could actually implement it in his life. 00:43:20 Speaker 3: And how sometimes that's. 00:43:21 Speaker 2: Like that's the way that that God speaks to us, is like like it might be a very simple principle, like if you've read through, you know, the Gospels, you'd probably have a good idea of just like the principles that you need to live by. And but whenever it really makes it passed your mind into your heart, that's whenever it becomes a reality that you live. And it's not a it's not a discipline, Like, if it's a discipline, it won't last. But if it's a reality in your heart, then you'll be able to do that for your whole life. But sometimes in order for that to become a reality, you've got to experience. You've got to experience the reality. And so I thought that was interesting whenever he said that, because that was a pretty extreme version of that. But like that does happen to everyone in their everyday lives, Like a reality is imparted to them through a situation, even though it's something they already knew, but it's. 00:44:19 Speaker 3: And that's the that's the question. Did he know it? Or did did do any of us know it? 00:44:25 Speaker 4: Know it? 00:44:25 Speaker 3: What does know it mean? I mean like an. 00:44:28 Speaker 1: Intellectual hat tip to a bunch of stuff that people actually don't know. Like, yeah, you could say that you you know something, but until it's you know that that heart knowledge that you know, we could describe it this revelational knowledge, experiential knowledge, you know. 00:44:45 Speaker 2: That's that's what it was. It was a it was a it was a transactional event. 00:44:51 Speaker 10: It jumped past his mind, you know, like there's knowing with your mind and then there's knowing and that right here. 00:44:57 Speaker 1: And that's the complexity of being a human is that you can know something, You can know the answer to the test, but really not know the answer to the question. 00:45:05 Speaker 7: Yeah, I doubt, I seriously doubt that he had a master's degree in physics. But in that short period of time he had worked it out the equation. Now that that truck in that sycamore tree and him in the middle was not going to work out well. And you can I used to say it all the time working Rex. You know, you can violate the laws of man, but the laws of physics will get you every time. 00:45:29 Speaker 4: And he had come to that realization, and that's you know, it took longer. 00:45:34 Speaker 7: I'm sure it took ten times as long to tell that story as it did for that to have. 00:45:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it probably was. 00:45:42 Speaker 2: I mean he said it was a tenth of a mile, which you know, that's a couple hundred yards tenth of a mile, five hundred feet. 00:45:50 Speaker 9: I could walk that in less time than it took him to tell that. 00:45:52 Speaker 1: Five hundred feet would essentially be one hundred and fifty yards. I put a picture of it up where it went down, and some some very ill informed human was like, that doesn't look very steep to me, I envisioned it being steeper. First of all, if you've ever been in steep country and you take photos of it, you recognize that photos don't show steepness. And when you're going that well log truck eighty thousand pounds, a slight incline can be all you need. 00:46:24 Speaker 4: Man. 00:46:24 Speaker 2: When I heard the story, the physics of it is pretty interesting that that it was. 00:46:30 Speaker 4: It was. 00:46:30 Speaker 2: It had been very dry and just a frog strangler came and he said it was one of those flash floods where like there's two or three inches of water flowing on top of not in gullies, but. 00:46:45 Speaker 1: Just across the like before it soaks in. And I mean he was just floating on water basically and just made He's crazy on top Cody, Cody saying he looked over and that that that tin wheeler was. I think it was a tin wheeler, not a tire, was moving and he was going forty miles an hour. I mean, a pretty astonishing and I cannot relate. I don't want to pretend like I can relate to what Teddy the fear he experienced. But when I worked for Buck Tittsworth and Mina Arkansas back when I was in high school. He lived at the top of a mountain and he had a mile long driveway and you gained about at least five hundred feet of elevation, if not six hundred or more going from the valley floor to his house. You know where I'm talking about, Yah, And he had like the first eighty yards of the driveway paved in the last and so for close to a mile it was dirt roads, and it was a road that they'd cut in with a dozer, and it wound like this. Well, I was cleaning up construction he'd built his house, and I was I had a four wheeler, a Yamaha Big Bear four wheel drive four wheeler and a trailer, about an eight foot like trailer you pull behind a truck, and his four wheeler had a ball on it, and I loaded that thing up full of construction debris, just heaping to overflowing. And we had a big burn pile at the bottom of the hill. So I had to go down that almost mile long driveway with that Yamaha big Bear four wheel drive with the trailer. 00:48:31 Speaker 3: I didn't think a thing about it. 00:48:34 Speaker 1: I just pulled, pulled out and just barely got started down that hill and came to the first corner, which was within sight of his house, and I hit the brakes and it just starts sliding. And I knew enough from being trained by Gary Nucom in driving, is that when you're sliding, you cannot break yep. And you know, Teddy was trying to show that like he gassed it at one point. Teddy really knows what he's doing, and he said, at one point he gassed it trying to get traction. He put on the jake brake, he pumped the brakes, he tried to turn it to flip the truck, like he had all these solutions going through his mind. 00:49:18 Speaker 3: None of them work well. 00:49:19 Speaker 1: When I hit the brake and slid, while I was still withinside a Buck's house, and I knew I had a mile to go, I knew I was in like big trouble, and I knew I couldn't hit the brake, and I was in whatever gear I was, and I would gear down and it would slide, I mean, so there was no stopping it. And basically I just rode that thing like a bucking horse down that mountain and when I got to the bottom, I mean, I was just like, I mean, no heart was pounding at me. 00:49:47 Speaker 3: It was just a miracle. I didn't drive it off that mountain. 00:49:49 Speaker 6: Why didn't you tell me about that? 00:49:51 Speaker 3: I probably did, I wouldn't have I didn't try to hide it. 00:49:56 Speaker 9: You also cut into your leg with a chain saw at that same place. 00:49:59 Speaker 6: I've got a scar. 00:50:00 Speaker 1: I got a scar at this angle right across my leg. Right there is that man, Buck Titsworth. 00:50:06 Speaker 6: I wonder if he. 00:50:07 Speaker 3: Wants to pay me or he owes me. Yeah, uh oh, he was a great boss. 00:50:13 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:50:14 Speaker 3: I was cutting trees with a chainsaw. 00:50:16 Speaker 1: I was I think I was sixteen or seventeen, and I just got. 00:50:20 Speaker 3: Done cutting a tree. Whoa, and just laid the saw down right on my. 00:50:25 Speaker 1: Leg, just while it was still running, and it cut me cut through my pants and I got a scar about that long right there to this day. 00:50:34 Speaker 3: Yep, yep. 00:50:36 Speaker 1: And I also called up my first gobbler, Turkey and Buck Titsworth's backyard. I was picking up trash around the front and I saw around the corner of the house the backside, I saw a gobbler strutting with two hens like sixty yards from the house. Luckily, Clay Knukeom had a diephram in his pocket, and so I took the diaphragm, snuck around the house, got on a big old pine tree on the what. 00:51:05 Speaker 3: And here, yeah, it was pretty bad. 00:51:09 Speaker 1: And here that gobbler came and he's he's strudged with those hens right down below me. I mean, like wile there's like construction workers like twenty yards from me hammering on the building. 00:51:19 Speaker 3: But that was a detour. 00:51:22 Speaker 1: That was a detour to say how incredibly scary it is to be out of control, anything out of control. 00:51:31 Speaker 2: Your body picks up on it quick. You're out of control. This is dangerous. You're gonna die, Yeah, because. 00:51:37 Speaker 10: Your brain is actually just a prediction machine. You know, that's the way the brain works, and so it's constantly making predictions. 00:51:43 Speaker 9: And when you're I mean that. 00:51:45 Speaker 10: That just sets off the fight or flight response and you're you're in trouble at that point. I mean, this is like you're going down. 00:52:03 Speaker 1: You know what wasn't really said overtly, but was implied is that he hit that timber and just dodged all the big trees, because he could have hit a big tree that would have stopped him, and it would have been like a head on collision with a train like it just would have. 00:52:23 Speaker 7: And what didn't come out of there too is And I've worked these kind of accidents when those law trucks come to a sudden stop. 00:52:31 Speaker 4: The laws keep moving up. Yeah we go, Yeah, they come forward. 00:52:34 Speaker 9: That's what I was worried was going to happen. 00:52:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, and worked a few of those. 00:52:40 Speaker 3: I want to I want to ask you about that. 00:52:42 Speaker 1: Okay, Uh, Brent's Brent spent a lot of time in law enforcement in an area of Arkansas, South Arkansas that was big log country. You had some pretty serious run ends with log and accidents, yep. 00:52:58 Speaker 7: A couple where where they were they lost control and turned over or you know, weight shifted, log shifted or went around a corner too fast. But I remember one where two his log truck and a semi hit and the fatal the fatality happened to the log truck driver because of what I just said. Once they hit, the logs kept moving and he came forward and wow and crushed him in the cab. But one of the ones that made probably the most the biggest impact on me that I think about a lot, was one there were some folks that lived in this other part of the county and they were migrant workers. And this guy had went to work on this logging crew and he had gotten he'd gotten killed a log a tree had fallen and killed him. So at that time I was a patrol deputy and it was my job to take to deliver death messages to people. And there was no next to Ken or what his next to Ken was like is in South America somewhere. So once the accident, the coroner called and said, you know, we've we've got this duty to do. You need to send a deputy out to this address. And I don't think that, you know, the people speak English there. So I got an interpreter and their parish priest where they went, where they went to church, and went down there and drove up to the house and this lady comes out and she's there's a little kid, and she's told one there. And I introduced myself and asked her if she spoke English, and she looked at the interpreter, you know, and the interpreter started talking. So then I had to I had to tell her that her husband had been killed in a logging accident. And as I'm telling her in English. She knows what's going on, and I said, it is my sorrowful duty to you to inform you that your husband, and I said his name was killed in a logging. 00:55:11 Speaker 4: Accident this morning. 00:55:13 Speaker 7: So when I'm looking at her and telling her that, she's looking at the lady who is the interpreter beside me, and I can see tears welling up in her eyes because she knows that whatever I'm saying is terrible, because here's this man in uniform and he's my priest is back here, and this other lady, so something's bad. 00:55:34 Speaker 4: So she knows it's bad. So the interpreter then tells her in. 00:55:38 Speaker 7: Spanish, you know what happened, And one big old tear came out and just rolled down her cheek, and she grabbed her kids up, and the kids started crying, and the priest and the lady went in and they didn't need me anymore, so I left and I talked to her. I talked to the priest two or three days later, I went by that church and asked him how. 00:56:02 Speaker 4: She was doing. 00:56:04 Speaker 7: He said, they're find they had family coming in, you know, as good as they perish, was taking care of them. But I asked him, I said, man, I said, I don't. It was something I didn't I got a question about. I said, I've delivered death messages before to people and from car wrecks and different things, I said, and nearly everybody's a wreck, I said, this lady, she took it like a champ. I couldn't believe how stoic she was about it. I mean, you could see she was visibly upset, but how just the way she took it was. It impressed me a lot, how strong she was. And he said, well, you got to remember that these folks come from places not like where they live now, and death comes all the time. You know, they don't live to be old. The places where they work and the things they have to do where they live down there and wherever it was that she lived or where they were originally from, life was a lot harder than it was here, and it was kind of expected, and it's been I think that has been the biggest thing for me to deal with over all these years of thinking how good we have it and how good how bad they had it, and the long ways that they went to be here for to make a better life for themselves, and then that terrible thing happened to that man that she would more or less expect and would have expected to happen to him, where they lived, where they were from. 00:57:44 Speaker 4: So I'm not happy. Note, it's just it's just tough. It's there. 00:57:54 Speaker 7: There was several of those, a lot of those, and I think about them. I think about them a lot. So I don't I don't have an answer really for how to where you go from that, but it's a it's a dangerous job for sure, yeah, you know, and that that kind of stuff happens. 00:58:16 Speaker 1: Does law enforcement still deliver death messages to families now? With cell phones? Like I was just thinking about, like back in that time, I mean people would add landlines. I mean probably in the nineties or early two thousands or something. I don't, man, I don't know, you know what I mean, because it feels like if something happened. 00:58:34 Speaker 7: Well, I mean now, I mean people are putting stuff on the internet, you know, on Facebook and all social media stuff that before they could say, you know, a vehicle or's an accident in the next akin, they're waiting. When you hear something about their waiting on the next aken to be notified. 00:58:51 Speaker 4: That's a law enforcement agency somewhere going to deliver them. 00:58:56 Speaker 3: They still do that. 00:58:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, as far as I know that do Yeah. 00:59:00 Speaker 3: It's interesting. 00:59:01 Speaker 6: Ali. 00:59:01 Speaker 3: That seems like a tough part of the job. 00:59:03 Speaker 4: It was terrible. 00:59:05 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm mm hmmm, Josh, what stood out to you? 00:59:13 Speaker 8: You know that just from the danger? The danger just reminded me of of a story of a family friend of ours and the the uh, the inversion of of Teddy the lines. He had this this family friend of close family friend of ours. He'd spent some time as a logger out in Washington State and he was a he was a man's man, I mean, just a big guy, big fiery, red beard, and he kind of went out west to go go be a logger and there was a lot of that bravado and macho And he told me the story of when he got there. He went into the steel chainsaw shop and he said, I want the biggest, baddest chainsaw you got, and uh, the guy behind the count said, here you go, and he hands him this chainsaw and it's got a sixty inch bar on it and they're cutting big furs out there, and he said, you can take it out back and try it. And they had some logs out back, and he said, I went out there and he said, I fired that bad boy up and I laid into this three foot log with this chainsaw, and he said it got about halfway through. And this is a big man. He's probably six foot two, six foot three, probably two hundred and fifty pounds in his prime, and he said it, he said it it just cut through it like butter. And it didn't hang up until it got about halfway through. And he said, when it got halfway through, it picked me up off the ground. And he said, I was able to get it out. And I walked back in and said, do you have anything smaller? And it just I was reminded that story because thinking about Teddy the Lines, Teddy the Lines is probably five foot eight. I mean, he's one hundred and thirty pounds, probably soaking wet, and he just doesn't carry any of that, you know what I mean. It's I have great appreciation for men who are humble and men who live by a code. And these are those guys that embody that in their day to day life, you know what I mean. They're men of integrity, men of honor, men who care about their family and their friends, I mean, what's more honorable than that? And so I think, you know, and these guys, you know, none of those guys are big, old, huge, macho guys, but they'll probably work just about anybody under the table, you know what I mean, just because of their commitment to diligence and hard work, you know what I mean. There's no showing off. And yeah, I just I think that inside of it, you know, I like how you said that there's a fine line between between being reckless and just working hard and being caught in a profession that's dangerous. And they probably they probably teetered that line a few times, but there was no there was no intent to just show off. There was just this intent to a commitment to do what they had to do to get the job done. And uh, yeah, I just I really appreciate it. I got to I got to see Teddy Theliones a couple of weeks ago. I went and visited their church, was justin house, and and Teddy stood up and just in the middle of the service and just thanked the Lord for how he's doing. You know, you mentioned that he's fighting cancer and he got a pretty good report, and he just thanked the Lord for that, And I mean, that's a that's a guy that's worth celebrating on a podcast. 01:02:35 Speaker 4: You know. 01:02:36 Speaker 1: It was there's always judgment calls inside of people's personal stories that we have to make all the time, Like and and the Vilnes Boys talked about in the Render they actually brought up Eddie's dementia and they they brought up Teddy's situation too. But I I, so, I felt like I kind of had, you know, their permission in a way to to say that. But it was just part of the story to hear, you know, because because Teddy said, you know that that wreck helps him see. 01:03:15 Speaker 3: Who was in control. 01:03:16 Speaker 1: And then now he's got you know, he's got this cancer, and I, you know, I just couldn't give too much information. 01:03:23 Speaker 3: But he's doing really good, he is. That's the report that we've. 01:03:27 Speaker 1: Got right now. It's doing really good. And so that's fantastic. Yeah, I haven't heard he was logging with him this week. 01:03:34 Speaker 8: Oh really. 01:03:37 Speaker 4: He was. He he was. 01:03:38 Speaker 3: He's out in the woods with him probably right now. 01:03:41 Speaker 4: I love it. 01:03:42 Speaker 10: Yeah, I would say Teddy wouldn't see award for best laugh on the Bear Grease. 01:03:47 Speaker 5: Yeah. 01:03:47 Speaker 10: When I was listening to the to it. That's what I kept I kept laughing every time you would laughing. 01:03:53 Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, what about the story? 01:03:56 Speaker 1: Happened so quick, and it was kind of the cold open the story his dad ari one in the middle of the night at Granny Henderson's house. 01:04:05 Speaker 3: I mean that was crazy. 01:04:07 Speaker 6: Yeah. 01:04:07 Speaker 8: Yeah. 01:04:08 Speaker 2: Well, and and I've heard Willard, the other brother, tell that story before too, And and he said that the dad was. 01:04:19 Speaker 3: Woke up in the middle of the. 01:04:19 Speaker 1: Night just like it's time to go. It's time to go, you know, like you you know how we all would do. But then we'd look at our alarm clock or our clock and be like, oh, it's four hours. 01:04:30 Speaker 3: Before it need to be up. I was just nervous. Well, he woke up in the middle of the night. 01:04:35 Speaker 1: This is a story that Willard told, which was the same story, but but Teddy just didn't quite have the tell this particular thing. 01:04:44 Speaker 3: But you know, he woke up and was just like, oh my gosh, it's time to go. 01:04:48 Speaker 1: And you know, the wife Cynthia jumps up and cooks breakfast and then goes and harnesses the mule and then he he rushes, he rushes off to Grannie Henderson's house and and knocks on the door and then Frank Henderson's like, what are you doing here? 01:05:05 Speaker 8: Man? 01:05:05 Speaker 3: And I mean maybe they had an alarm clock. 01:05:08 Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe they somehow knew exactly what time it was. 01:05:11 Speaker 3: But those stories of those guys are are are I like those old stories? 01:05:17 Speaker 8: But uh, go back and listen to the Granny Henderson. 01:05:21 Speaker 6: Yeah. 01:05:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's a lot of connection between a lot of these stories we tell, it seems, but uh, you knew you probably did business with a lot of loggers back in the day. Yeah, yeah, I sure did down and mean a big, big log country. 01:05:38 Speaker 6: Yeah. 01:05:39 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:05:40 Speaker 1: These guys are all cutting hardwoods up here down in Meana and the washtalls. They're cutting primarily pine, mostly pine. 01:05:47 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:05:48 Speaker 5: I don't have any stories about them. I mean they were just hard working guys and most of them made a lot of money. Yeah. My neighbor logger mm hmm. And uh he lived in a beer house and I did I hope he was content, oh me. Uh, they were all good people though. 01:06:12 Speaker 6: I mean, you know, he just didn't find him. 01:06:14 Speaker 5: I never encountered a lagger that I thought was not worthy of loaning a little money too. 01:06:21 Speaker 6: I grew up with. 01:06:22 Speaker 1: I went to school with a lot of kids whose dads were laggers, and uh, the one one of them, his dad, I won't say his name, but uh, he was a lagger and he was all we always knew him as. Uh he got shot in a bar in Oklahoma. Yeah, it was my Well, I hate to say his name. I don't know why. I feel like I'm violating, like hippa or something. 01:06:50 Speaker 3: He shot, should be careful. Okay, Well that's good. 01:06:54 Speaker 1: My my my friend in high school, his dad was got in a bar in Oklahoma and survived. 01:07:02 Speaker 3: And he was a logger and was a good guy. 01:07:06 Speaker 8: In their defense, if you find yourself in a bar in southeast Oklahoma, there's a high likelihood. 01:07:13 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 01:07:14 Speaker 3: We learned that. 01:07:16 Speaker 9: My great grandpa was a logger and he we heard stories. 01:07:19 Speaker 10: Every time someone would find out, oh, Louis Joplin's your grandpa, the would always say strongest man I ever ever saw. One time I saw him catch a whole a whole truck of logs on his back. I mean that, I promise I heard that story really, yeah, and it's not true at all. 01:07:32 Speaker 6: It's not I asked, I asked the story. 01:07:35 Speaker 10: But that's everyone would tell me that he was a really strong he was six or four really, I mean even Clay met him before he died. He died around close to ninety and he was still a big, big. 01:07:46 Speaker 1: Old Well we heard the story. So there's a famous story in Misty's family and we we uh, I got all foreshadow about the book. 01:07:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, Lewis Joplin, Missy's great grandfather is is there's a section about him in the book because in the Black Bear book that's coming out spring of twenty seven, get Ready is about trees because black bears need trees, and it's about the logging industry, which actually had more impact on black bears than market hunting. 01:08:16 Speaker 4: Was he the one that killed the bear? 01:08:18 Speaker 9: Yeah? 01:08:18 Speaker 4: Rock? 01:08:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Lewis Joplin killed a bear with a rock. And one of the first times I ever was it after we were married or while. 01:08:26 Speaker 3: We were dating? 01:08:26 Speaker 9: Oh, it's probably while we were dating. 01:08:27 Speaker 3: While we were. 01:08:28 Speaker 1: Dating, I went to Louis Joplin's house. He was in his late eighties in Hatfield, and Misty had told me her great grandfather killed a bear with a rock, and I just was like, oh really, And so anyway I went and asked to talk to him about it myself. 01:08:42 Speaker 3: He told me the whole story. 01:08:45 Speaker 1: But he there's a story of him being by a log truck and the chain's breaking and a big load of logs. 01:08:54 Speaker 3: Fell on him. 01:08:56 Speaker 1: But there was a sapling right beside him that bent over like a fishing pole being bent by a fish, and he was able. He survived basically because that tree took some of the pressure. 01:09:11 Speaker 3: Of the logs off of him. And while he was under under the logs, he's he's talking to his buddies and they their equipment was out of gas. 01:09:22 Speaker 10: It was out of gas and they're a long ways from gas, so they couldn't just pull it off. Because he kept saying, get you know, and get the thing that pulls. 01:09:28 Speaker 1: The Lewis is down there, and Misty remembers him saying that he couldn't see. He calls for a mile dark yeah, and the guys go, well, the skidter or whatever they had, the track, the mechanized, the equipment they had was out of gas, and so the guys on the outside are like saying, what do you want us to do. Lewis, jopping from underneath the log pile, says, well, the guys over the mountain have a team of mules go get them. And they were like, well, do you have time. I mean, he's hurting, like the sapling is not completely say, like they think he's. 01:10:01 Speaker 10: Dying and they think the sapling is going to break. Yeah, I mean that's the other thing they do. 01:10:05 Speaker 1: It's like a load of logs as big as telephone poles, you know, on top of him, and uh, And basically one of the guys says, well, let's siphen some gas out of the truck. So they siphon gas out of the truck, put it in the skidter or loader or whatever they had. This is probably back in the fifties. And and they one by one start pulling logs off of him. And Lewis told how he could feel the pressure with each log, every log he took off, he would just feel a release of pressure. 01:10:37 Speaker 6: Wow. 01:10:38 Speaker 3: And it just kind of and he survises. And that's how people die. 01:10:42 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just like wild you know, just like we heard from the lines. I mean, there's a thousand ways to die when you're uh, when you're getting when you're messing with logs now, I. 01:10:53 Speaker 1: Will tell you, I will close down. I'll give you all a chance to close out the podcast, I will tell you the story that I told Teddy the lines when I walked out of his house after the episode. And it's one of those stories that you kind of wish you didn't tell because it's kind of like, no, it's not that not as cool as you think. But we were talking about getting hitting the head with logs. I mean, like Kaylen had talked about how you got knocked out and all this, and I said, I've been hitting the head with a log once really hard, to the point that it didn't knock me out. But I actually it's the only time in my life I've ever actually seen stars, you know, just kind of like seeing stars. And it was it happened while I was leading a mule that had panniers on it. 01:11:38 Speaker 3: So I'm leading a. 01:11:39 Speaker 2: Mule that has these big wide bags on the side of it, so the mules about five feet wide, and I'm just plowing down the top of a mountain, down in the washtalls, just walking fast, just pulling this mule. I'm gonna hurry and by myself, I'm hot and sweaty, and we're just plowing through saplings or bending over and all this and basically that panty or hits about a twelve foot tall, six inch at the base dead snag, and that snag just I'm just walking in it big. That's just in the back of the head. It was like getting hitting the head with a baseball bat from behind. And I mean, I just, you know, had no idea what happened. 01:12:21 Speaker 3: I told that to Teddy. 01:12:23 Speaker 9: I could see why you telling that story to Teddy, and they. 01:12:26 Speaker 3: Were just kind of like, okay, yeah, I found five dollars. 01:12:31 Speaker 10: I'll be. 01:12:33 Speaker 2: Good story quick, Britt. Britt has a deal if you tell a story that's kind of a. 01:12:38 Speaker 4: Dud, that's my wife. Yeah. 01:12:40 Speaker 1: When you get done and like no one laughs or no one thinks it's cool, you go and then I found. 01:12:44 Speaker 6: Five dollars. 01:12:48 Speaker 4: Works every time. 01:12:50 Speaker 2: Closing thoughts from the team, Gary Bear, Well, Hey, I. 01:12:53 Speaker 5: Do I have one Uh you know, I'm not a very good storyteller, but I've got one story I just love and I'm make it real short. I'm just going to tell you, well, I don't know about that. But you talk about banking, you're talking about Eastern Oklahoma, You're talking about bars. I have this big old boy, he's the toughest guy in Oklahoma, at least in our part of the state. 01:13:15 Speaker 6: You know, everybody knows this guy. 01:13:16 Speaker 5: He's tough as nails, he's a good guy, pays his bills, he's my customer. 01:13:21 Speaker 4: I love him. 01:13:22 Speaker 6: And I go, hey, what's all this stuff? 01:13:24 Speaker 5: I hear about you taking nine shots over at the borrow. 01:13:28 Speaker 2: Shirt shirt highway. We said the name of the bar. We're not protecting them the candle light yet yet. And he goes, well, hey, let me just show you him. Button your shirt, pulled it open. Nine bullet holes. 01:13:42 Speaker 5: Nine holes, he said, the bartenderself the bar. Yeah, oh yeah. The bartender had two guns. One had normal rounds, which would have killed him. 01:13:51 Speaker 4: The other had what peers ball. 01:13:55 Speaker 5: Yeah, it would just shoot all And he said the bartender grin have the wrong. 01:14:02 Speaker 4: Gun. 01:14:02 Speaker 5: When I walk He walked in intimidating this guy. I mean, I won't get into the story there, but he was doing something really bad. 01:14:09 Speaker 6: Bartender just goes. 01:14:12 Speaker 5: And so anyway, bartender's got a good eye at online rounds. 01:14:17 Speaker 2: A lot of people got shot at That's where Cody, That's where my buddy's dad got shot. 01:14:22 Speaker 5: Actually, actually my buddy turned and ran to get his thirty thirty and the bartender ran out to the side. You got a guy with a thirty thirty and a guy with his pistol and they're having to shootout. And he got hit just around his heart, you know, around his liver, you know, he just and he survived. 01:14:44 Speaker 9: Wow. 01:14:44 Speaker 1: So well this is not the first time the candle light has come up on Burgrease. That's where Louis Dell and Charlie got shot at. 01:14:51 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:14:52 Speaker 8: Wow, there's a lot of shooting at the candlelight. 01:14:54 Speaker 4: Oh what's that count? 01:14:56 Speaker 8: Is that? Is that where? That's not where? That's not where the judy. 01:15:02 Speaker 3: You know, that was also in Oklahoma, though. 01:15:04 Speaker 8: It was Southeast Oklahoma is the wild West. 01:15:08 Speaker 3: It's rough place. 01:15:10 Speaker 10: I don't think we could say this. 01:15:14 Speaker 3: Everyone's from Southeast Oklahoma. 01:15:17 Speaker 2: Well, now that I start, I know some guys over there. 01:15:22 Speaker 3: They all think the guys in Arkansas. 01:15:23 Speaker 2: They talk about us, like can we talk about that? 01:15:29 Speaker 4: That's good. 01:15:31 Speaker 3: Closing thoughts, Brent. 01:15:32 Speaker 4: It was good. 01:15:33 Speaker 3: Thanks for being here, man, that's so nice to have you. 01:15:35 Speaker 4: It was good. 01:15:36 Speaker 7: I like I like the stories about people, real folks and real folks that I can identify with, and those folks are tip tip with the spear. 01:15:49 Speaker 4: I liked it. Yep. 01:15:53 Speaker 3: Well thanks everybody for coming. I'm uh yeah, see these guys will see you at the Black. 01:16:01 Speaker 1: Bear Bonanza yep, yep. March seventh, to make it March seventh, Benton ble Arkansas, and we'll see you on the Burgers YouTube channel. Berger's Instagram. We've got meat Eater has what they're calling twelve and twenty six that we're there's every week there's a new video that comes up on the media YouTube channel. But they're having twelve long form films that they're putting out, like hour long top films that they're putting out this year that are that are kind of different, edited a little different. Johannis just had a film that came out about his Manitoba bear hunt with Craig McCarthy. Yeah, Craig, And so that's that's out right now and uh you can check that out. But uh and uh man hat tip to the Misty's new Covis. Look at those lash Those are flashy, flashy. 01:16:57 Speaker 8: To cove is all around. 01:16:59 Speaker 3: Mm hmm mm hmm. Yeah. Keep the wild places wild, as that's where the bears live.