00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman. This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast. Presented by f HF Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the place as we explore. We're in Knoxville, Tennessee, on Meat Eaters game Day. I have with me this panel of expert analysts of college football, duck hunting, CrossFit, country living. We got it all here today, folks. Now, I feel like I'm on the ESPN. Were we are. We are in downtown Knoxville, Tennessee, within sight of where Tennessee Balls. They're kind of roll over the tide uh here. In about five or six hours we are We're at the Meat Eater tailgate tour, which has been a ton of fun. I have a very unique group of guests here with me today. I'll introduce them from right to left. I've got right here, Hunter Spencer from Meat Eater man Old Tennessee Ball himself lives in Virginia. 00:01:36 Speaker 2: He's spying on them. 00:01:38 Speaker 1: Hunter. Anything that you see that is graphic graphic design. Most almost everything is Hunter Spencer, including this cool horn getting grilled. 00:01:50 Speaker 3: Hunter's looks really confused, right, I thought I was sitting next to Josh Hippool honestly. 00:01:57 Speaker 2: Josh, I don't even know. 00:02:01 Speaker 1: Really, the head coach of the ball. 00:02:03 Speaker 2: I thought, I thought you got him out here. 00:02:06 Speaker 1: Well, this Hunter Spencer here, we have Josh, Josh Bird Bird Bird, and you you work with He runs hunt for us. Yeah, so I kind of got to introduce you guys together. This is Rich Frowning introduced to me as the most fit man in America. 00:02:24 Speaker 2: Which formerly let's go we're tired. Now, let's go America in the world. 00:02:32 Speaker 1: World, in the world. World. 00:02:34 Speaker 2: You're being serious formally okay, fish man in the world. 00:02:37 Speaker 1: Let's go, hey man, Yeah, I love it. 00:02:40 Speaker 2: Play a second. That's right. 00:02:42 Speaker 1: Well, all I was gonna say was I mean, you know, we squirrel hunted yesterday and he couldn't lose me. 00:02:49 Speaker 4: I could tell you we were just creeping. We're just creeping squirrels to squirrels. Yeah, they lost us. 00:02:56 Speaker 1: So yeah, tell me, how would you introduce you? 00:03:00 Speaker 4: I competed in CrossFit for twelve thirteen years. 00:03:04 Speaker 2: Thirteen years if. 00:03:04 Speaker 4: You count COVID won a couple times as an individual, one a couple of times on a team, own a CrossFit gym in Cookville, Tennessee, and now trying to bring fitness to the hunting space. 00:03:15 Speaker 2: That's our big thing. 00:03:16 Speaker 4: We got into hunting, real passionate about it probably the last ten years, and so yeah. 00:03:21 Speaker 2: That's what we're doing now. Awesome love hunting. 00:03:23 Speaker 1: And so I let me come back to you guys. Right after Brent, Brent Reeves and then this guy who's never been I don't think you've been on the ritter of this is Garrett Long. Almost everything that's going on at Meat Eater and even with Bear Grease, this guy's involved with but kind of behind the scenes. So I'm really upset that you're here, Garrett, really, man, it's upsetting Garrett's Garrett's like, he's like, he's my boss, so he's running in the. 00:03:50 Speaker 2: Show man it. I think. 00:03:52 Speaker 5: The coolest thing I've done at Meat Eater, though, is I actually hired hunter. 00:03:55 Speaker 2: Yeah really, yeah he was, he started. 00:03:58 Speaker 6: Man, Wait a minute, me, Yeah, I agree that. 00:04:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, tell me, like in the hunting space, it's clear that you know, in the last at least ten years, like fitness has come up on the radar of something that we should all be, you know, as hunters, which is pretty cool because I think that the narrative for a lot of the hunting community has not been something you know, that would be fitness related. And then when we started, you know, Western hunts and elk hunting kind of came onto the scene and it's like, hey, a big limiting factor of success is just being able to get places. Then you started seeing you know, people marketing to the fitness. 00:04:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we talked about this a little bit yesterday. 00:04:56 Speaker 4: My kind of background is like, originally I was born in Michigan in Tennessee for thirty plus years, so whitetail is is kind of for me. And when I started hunting, whitetail was tough because it's sitting still. I have ADHD like or add or something. Something's not right. So I'm a little off, you know, And so that was tough for me. And so I got into turkey hunting first, and turkey hunting I fell in love with. And so you know, it's up down we running gun a lot, you know in Tennessee. And so I then somebody introduced me to elk hunting and from then on I was hooked. And so now I've kind of like made it back to now whitetail is a passion too. So in that whole process, you know, I was competing and training and I'm like, man, there's such a need for like a little bit of science backed hunting fitness preparation. You know, there are some other ones out there and good ones out there, but I feel like we've you know, we've got fifteen years. I was a next strength and conditioning coach. I have degree in exercise science. I've competed for years, and I married the two with the passion that I have hunting. In the last you know, ten years, I would say where we got super serious and then Western hunting in the last six or seven that I've been like next level passionate about. So yeah, we just kind of saw the need there. I was like, Hey, I'm gonna be hunting a lot anyway, I'm gonna be doing these workouts to prepare myself for hunting. Why not just offer them to people online. So that's kind of where Mayhem Hunt started. We have CrossFit Mayhem and we've done that for twelve or fifteen years and we'll still keep that up. But man Mayhem hunt and just hunting has become a huge passion of mine. And I want guys girls to never have to question, hey, should I go after that animal because i'ma have to get it out or either's just no, there's no second thought when we go out. We're like, all right, I don't care if it's a thousand feet up, We're gonna get there. We're gonna get to it and get that animal, and then we're gonna get it out. So that's just you know, we want people more confidence of anything of like hey, I can go out. 00:06:40 Speaker 2: There and do this right. 00:06:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. To me, the most positive thing about when you're combining physical fitness and then hunting, which we're all passionate about, is like being physically fit is like a good idea for life in general, you're out hunting or not, and and so it's it's again just one of those like tangible and positive things that comes from being involved in the outdoors. 00:07:08 Speaker 4: Well. And then I mean there's such a crossover too of like hey, you're harvesting your own meat. It's healthy, we know where it came from. It's not going to a store. It's not overly processed, it's not given all these antibiotics and stuff. So you know, if we can get this healthy, clean meat and then also fuel ourselves for these it's it just it's it makes sense. And then you know, we've talked about it too. Like my personality, I'm just a competitor, right, So, like my whole life has been. I'm one of thirty two first cousins on my mom's side, twenty five or boys, and everything we did was a competition, and so that's just who I am, right, So I competed for years and then when I got done, I'm like, man, I still need to compete and still have that and hunting. I mean, we talked about it yesterday. It's the original competition, right, like us versus that animal. And so for me, I feel like that draw of just the competition side of it is just who I am. And then you got the like team aspect of it. I you know, all these guys are going solo. Hunt's good for you. I like, you know, if I've got one other person and there's a team and we're kind of like figuring out a plan, there's like just there's something to it. 00:08:10 Speaker 2: And so all of it. 00:08:12 Speaker 4: What I've done in the past, Mary's super well to what we're doing now, and man, I just it just blessed to be where we're at. 00:08:19 Speaker 2: Man, I love love it. 00:08:21 Speaker 1: I'm trying to Garrett, let's let's combine our heads here, Hunter and Brent. What what would you ask the fittest man in the world if he were sitting by you, Like, what intelligent question would you ask them? 00:08:35 Speaker 2: Like? 00:08:35 Speaker 1: Because it's going to take all listen, listen, here's the best analogy. If I was if I was sitting next to the owner of the finest mule in America, I would have a hundred questions. 00:08:49 Speaker 2: For Hey, father of the American mule? Who is it? 00:08:52 Speaker 1: George wah nice? Hey, come on dude, all right, who are you talking? 00:08:56 Speaker 2: Too easy? Sorry? 00:08:56 Speaker 1: It's like who invented crossfild? 00:08:58 Speaker 2: All right? All right? Great? 00:08:59 Speaker 6: Are already said? Is motivation? And that would have been my question? 00:09:04 Speaker 2: Motivation the motivator? 00:09:06 Speaker 4: Well, you know the coolest part two is you know my kids. So you guys have seen my kids are around all the time, birds. 00:09:11 Speaker 2: Kids are out here. 00:09:13 Speaker 4: Well, but I want to impact, Like you know, I've never once told my kids, hey, let's go do a workout, but they see me and Lakeland will go down there. 00:09:21 Speaker 2: All of my kids will be like, hey, I'm gonna work out with you, you. 00:09:24 Speaker 4: Know, and they're doing their own thing. We're not loading them up with a barbell. We're not like making them do anything, but they want to do it. So then you like, I'm doing a workout and I just look over and they're doing it right. Well, then the hunting now too, Like I've been out six or seven times and my kids have been with me five of the times. 00:09:39 Speaker 2: The Trice was with me when we harvested a dough. 00:09:41 Speaker 4: The other other afternoon morning and he was fired up, and my you know, like it's awesome. 00:09:46 Speaker 2: It's there. 00:09:47 Speaker 4: They want to be with me, and that's what I want, right, So I want to impact them from the physical side of like, hey want them to be in better shape and and just you know, a lifestyle of fitness. But then also the outdoors, like it's it's just in a good spot. 00:10:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think to your to your question. 00:10:04 Speaker 5: We talked about a little bit yesterday, But there's workout programs out there for getting outside and everything. But man, and I've I've I've been fortunate to work out a decent amount of my life. 00:10:14 Speaker 1: But oh really, I never would have guessed. 00:10:18 Speaker 2: They thank you, but they break out. 00:10:22 Speaker 5: They breaks me right, Like I I love, I get started, I find myself getting started, and then three weeks in like it is a lifestyle that and maybe I'm just not tough enough. I just like can't continue. My body is breaking down and old thirty three. 00:10:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, ex accurate. 00:10:40 Speaker 5: I'm just kidding, But I think, like I think my my my question is is like, if you're not a dude that's already just getting it, Like, how much is too much? 00:10:50 Speaker 2: Right? Like? 00:10:50 Speaker 5: What what is the proper level of training if a guy's coming out west on his first el cunt? Like, is it just seven days a week to like to failure every and that's the mentality should have? 00:11:02 Speaker 2: Or is there a middle ground to get you out in the feet? Yeah? 00:11:05 Speaker 4: And so I feel like that's something that we have or we've kind of like, you know, we've got the background of we have the CrossFit gym that we've had for fifteen years, and you know, we've got our youngest member we talked yesterday's five years old and our oldest is eighty three or eighty four years old. So like we have the full range, and so we've been able to see, hey, you know, what can some people do, and like you're at a very entry level and we've kind of on what we're doing now is like putting a little bit of science behind that instead of just hammering guys all the time, which you still need to do, right, You've still got to like prepare because there is a mental aspect of it. Anybody who's been out west, like, you've got to be able to grind because there are you know, those days where it's up down physically but also mentally and emotionally, and so you've got to have those days. But then also like we know that four or five weeks is about as hard as you can push, and then you maybe need to take a week where you just kind of, hey, like let's move still. You know, starting out maybe three or four days a week, and then you know you could bump it up. I we were talking yesterday. I like to work out seven days a week. It's my mentality. It's almost like it's something I have to do right, It's just clear my head. 00:12:12 Speaker 2: It's got to get that hit, whatever it is. 00:12:14 Speaker 4: But for most guys, starting out three days a week, it's gonna be a lot, you know, And so you can once you do a couple weeks of that, maybe add a fourth day. 00:12:22 Speaker 2: Hey, four days too many? 00:12:23 Speaker 4: Like there is And that's one of the things we're trying to do is like, hey, we're gonna build a community where guys can get on there, girls can get on there and talk and feel like, hey, you know, hey, this is what I'm doing. I'm feeling like this, you know, any help there. So that's that's what we're trying to do, is take the kind of approach we've done with CrossFit, of like, hey, we know our program is the best, but also the community side of like hey, let's let's you know, ask some questions and do some stuff like that too. 00:12:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. And the Thursdays for us is usually a off ish day, so Thursdays and Sundays. Yeah. 00:12:54 Speaker 3: So, And to answer the question, as a normal average forty three year old guy work like working out with him, I know he works out two days a week. I can usually two times, two times a day. I can go Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday usually and work out with him. But by Thursday I'm probably just taking off completely just because I mean, I can't do it anymore. You know, like my body's worn down, I need to day. I need just to arrest day completely. So it is listened to your body. And but we do take Thursdays, Saturdays and as like active recovery, and then Sundays is usually just completely off. So we have that broken in there pretty good. 00:13:33 Speaker 7: All right, I gotta cool. I got a question. 00:13:35 Speaker 3: So I'm thinking of a football question for you about tonight coach. 00:13:39 Speaker 2: On first down, they'll never expect it. 00:13:43 Speaker 7: So trying to like maybe compare it to hunting. So if you got somebody that's never hunted and they've got aspirations to be a big game hunter, you kind of figure out a path that they'll start smoking with it. So I'll say the same thing with getting fitter, a better version of you. What what's that first step look like? 00:14:02 Speaker 4: Doing something? Doing anything like moving three four days a week. You know, I when you know, when I was early on in CrossFit, I was like, you have to do CrossFit. The only way to get fitter is doing CrossFit. I'm not that mentality anymore. Like I think CrossFit or some variation like ours isn't is a little bit of CrossFit. There's a lot less gymnastics, a lot more grunt work, a little bit less super high intensity all the time, because that does wear you out. 00:14:29 Speaker 2: But man, it's just getting started. 00:14:31 Speaker 4: Doing something is better than nothing. And then you know, like to start this momentum. And it's day after day and you know, I my personal kind of values are faith, family, fitness, right, and so every day I try to sit down at the end of the day and be as objective as possible. 00:14:49 Speaker 2: How did I do faith? Wise? Did I get in the word? Whatever? 00:14:52 Speaker 4: Did I do good? And and try to give myself, you know, one through ten? Same with family? Did I spend time? Quality time? 00:14:59 Speaker 2: And then fit? 00:15:00 Speaker 4: And then short memory when you do good because next day it's a new day. And short memory when you do bad as well, because then you got to just like, hey, we got to reset today. 00:15:08 Speaker 2: It's fitness. 00:15:09 Speaker 4: All that stuff is like it just compounds, right, and so it's all about momentum and just get do something right. Yeah, twenty minute walk, you know, do that a couple of days a week, add thirty minutes or add a little bit of wait, whatever you want to do. 00:15:21 Speaker 1: You know, I think I think a lot of times people are including me, are intimidated by guys that are really good, that are kind of the leaders in this space, right. I mean, it's like we're not having we're not having, you know, somebody that's not good at this, like being the spokesman for fitness. That's always somebody like you and and sometimes it's hard to be like, well, I can't be a professional or I can't and what you I appreciate what you said because I mean that's kind of the way that I've I think about fitness. I don't talk about fitness, right, but it's like something that's how my mind is to is to just do something, you know, and and I do some running, do some in the last two years, have done some. 00:16:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked yesterday. 00:16:06 Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty disciplined, you know, three four times a week at a gym doing Staremaster. Just because I'm I'm forty five and a man. I feel my body just kind of. 00:16:16 Speaker 2: Like the strength, the strength was starting to fall off. 00:16:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and uh, like just doing something is better than nothing. 00:16:23 Speaker 2: I can tell you that. 00:16:24 Speaker 5: The frustrating thing with running with Clays, He's one of those guys. At half a mile in he goes, God, I'm tired, and You're like oh, you're tired. Good and you're like and so you're like, okay, I'm kind of tired to you. And then a mile and he's like, oh, I'm tired. Then like three miles in he's like, oh, I'm tired. You're like, when are you gonna side? It just keeps grinding. He him and Giannis they burned me one day on the mountain. We were we went for a little run before I go to market meeting and I hung with him for like it was a lot for me. It was a long run. It was a ten mile run. I think I hung with him for like eight and the final how I'm like, I gotta go to the bathroom. I'm sorry, I got my shoes. I gotta do something. 00:17:08 Speaker 1: I gotta Yeah, Hey, I want to let's talk about football for a moment now, Coach Hunter, Coach you you went to the University of Tennessee and what and what did you study there? 00:17:22 Speaker 2: Art? Art? 00:17:23 Speaker 1: But you're from Virginia correct, But you're big balls man, big time. 00:17:27 Speaker 7: And your wife I suffered through yeah, and my wife went here for veterinary Yeah. 00:17:32 Speaker 1: I mean, like, what's it what's it like, what's it like to be wearing the Orange. 00:17:36 Speaker 7: Oh it's good, especially on a day like today. I mean it's just third Saturday in October. That's get any bigger. So we just need we need a Saturday like we had in twenty two. 00:17:46 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so what what will they do if they beat Alabama today? Like I've heard it said twice. 00:17:52 Speaker 7: Now, the gold post will come down? You think in the water it could be. 00:17:57 Speaker 1: Okay, so that we're right here on the tennis. 00:18:00 Speaker 7: Because we got the playoffs sort of lost win this. If we win this, still got to play Georgia. We still got to play Georgia. But if you can go ten and two, you've got an sec guy right here. Of course too, you've got a good shot. Give you that making it we How late is the Georgia Get over at his shirt right now? We lost? We got one of those losses there, so we were hoping it would just be Alabama and Georgia. 00:18:26 Speaker 2: How late is the Georgia game. 00:18:28 Speaker 4: That's the hard part too, is you've got to time your losses correctly, you know, like I think. 00:18:33 Speaker 7: It's a night is it? Is it a night game today or is it the same time? 00:18:37 Speaker 4: No? 00:18:37 Speaker 2: I'm saying, like, when do you guys play Georgia. 00:18:39 Speaker 7: Oh it's at Georgia. I think it's a day game at Georgia. 00:18:42 Speaker 2: Win the season. 00:18:44 Speaker 7: Sorry, we've got to buy next week. I think Kentucky, then I think Georgia. 00:18:50 Speaker 2: That's enough. 00:18:51 Speaker 1: What I thought was cool is that if they you know, sometimes when they win, this is a huge wear down the goalpost. Bring it to the Tennessee River. Throw the kid there, Bandy. 00:19:04 Speaker 2: That would be the second time because Bandy. 00:19:07 Speaker 4: Did it to two weeks ago, Bandy beat Bama and they carried it to the Cumberland. 00:19:12 Speaker 1: Which is a much further that much. I was thinking about crappie structure down on the bottom. 00:19:18 Speaker 7: And we've got a hundred and two thousand. Yeah, when they stand like fifty tops, so they covered like half of the field when they started. 00:19:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, that's great, Brent. What kind of shirt you were in there? Oh well, this is what were you doing two weeks ago? 00:19:40 Speaker 2: Two weeks ago I was celebrating. Were you at the game? I was not? Do you know who they're playing today? They're playing you gotta know you were over here? Really? 00:19:51 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, communists, but welcome, he's French. 00:19:57 Speaker 2: That's literally French there, yeh w I'm sorry. I was so good. We're glad you're here. 00:20:05 Speaker 6: I get one opportunity every now and then a blind hole literally finds out literally, and that's that's what we season. 00:20:14 Speaker 7: I'd send him text all the time. When Tennessee was winning, I get everything sarcastic back. So as soon as we lost Arkansas. 00:20:21 Speaker 2: I just I just almost wore. 00:20:24 Speaker 4: I almost wore my Notre Dame baseball jersey here just for but I didn't. 00:20:28 Speaker 2: I didn't. This was the last time we were here. 00:20:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we were rich. But you're not a Tennessee fan. 00:20:33 Speaker 2: No, I'm a Notre Dame fan. My grandpa went to Notre Dame. 00:20:36 Speaker 4: My family's Catholic and Irish, so I've been stuck with Notre Dame my whole life. 00:20:41 Speaker 2: Yeah it's been rough, you know. 00:20:42 Speaker 5: Yeah. 00:20:43 Speaker 4: No, I mean I tried to get behind Tennessee when they were bad for a while because I could tolerate the fans, and then as soon as they started winning again, I was like, man, he was just obnoxious, you know. 00:20:53 Speaker 2: Like that's like, you know, I went hard. 00:20:57 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a I'm a Notre Dame in a Detroit sports fan, So don't talk to me about hard time. Yeah, thirty seven years of hard times. 00:21:06 Speaker 2: Rich you got. 00:21:08 Speaker 7: Here. 00:21:09 Speaker 2: That's true, that's true, that's true. 00:21:10 Speaker 1: You know the good thing about being from Arkansas, and this is true. We have no professional sports teams. We have one bigger uh Division one school. There are other Division one schools, but without a doubt, everybody in Arkansas is rooting for the Razorbacks. Like when I think about Alabama, haven't having a divided a divided state. Uh, It's it's kind of weird to me to think that you would have that kind of vitriol against like people in your own state, you know, like Alabama and Auburn and all this. But in Arkansas, man, that's. 00:21:44 Speaker 7: All we got when we beat John Daily and golf for a long time, we did. 00:21:48 Speaker 1: We had him for a. 00:21:49 Speaker 2: While, still got him. I mean he's still there. 00:21:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but not so as you all know, we usually on the render and we'll day we uh we talk about the last podcast that came out. Anybody has anybody else got anything else they want to say? Before we talk about that cash shirt? 00:22:14 Speaker 2: It's hot. Keep that there's no. 00:22:18 Speaker 1: Keep that down. 00:22:21 Speaker 2: Now. 00:22:22 Speaker 1: This I told I told Hunter had been cool. If we were at like Florida State. And then we were talking about this, this series I've been I've been working on it for a long time. I think I read the first book about Oola like a year and a half ago, and it Sometimes these series, people ask me a lot of times, like how long do you work on a series? And they're all different. Sometimes they come together real quick, but then other times they're like long and drawn out. This one was long and drawn out, and it took us that long to find the right people to tell the story. And and sometimes I'll start a series that ends with me, well, in my mind, a potential series, and I never do it because I never find the right people. And I actually thought that might be what happened with ostiolas I did, I did, and and even uh, there's gonna be a new guest later. 00:23:18 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:23:18 Speaker 1: We talked to one of the Florida seminoles, and then I had known Sterling Harjoe for a while and so I knew he was gonna be great. But he's not a historian's he's a seminole and just kind of knows, you know. I was really interested in how he would have viewed Ostiola. And then we found Jake Tiger this young young guy in Oklahoma, which was a great help. But Patricia Wickman, she's retired and was like Josh Spilmmaker, helped me a lot on this one. She was very difficult to find. She's not she's not in. 00:23:52 Speaker 4: The Yeah she correct an person. 00:23:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man. She totally is like she she she. 00:24:01 Speaker 4: Reprimanded you, like twice. She was put your drink on the coaster. I was like, all right, mom. I felt like it hit me hard, you know. 00:24:11 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, well, I was the only reason I could share that with the world. That section was because of how wonderful lady she was. She she was so excited that that I was there. But I really appreciate that kind of frank, don't do that. 00:24:29 Speaker 3: Don't do that, no problem, it's man, yeah, take your shoes off at the door. 00:24:34 Speaker 1: I said it. I said it, and I meant it. I interview a ton of people, and of all different types of people, she was, and I'll go ahead and say it, the most passionate, knowledgeable and able to communicate about her sphere of expertise than anybody I've ever dolt. And she's she's been retired for years. I don't want to say how old she is, but well I better not do that. She's retired. So but I mean just sharpest attack, and and I'm still a little bit nervous about like how I did, Like we kind of had to convince her that we were going to handle this story with hair and she was very concerned about us getting it right, you know. And so but she was a wonderful, wonderful lady. And we'll be hearing from her on the lat in the next two episodes. I'll go ahead and foreshadow a bit. So this the second podcast is basically going to be about the war years of Osceola, when he actually retreated into Florida and all the stuff they did was just wild. The the third episode is gonna be about I usually don't do this, Rich doing this for you for me because you're the world's fittest athlete. For formally, uh, We're gonna do a whole podcast on Ossio's death, Yeah, because. 00:26:05 Speaker 4: Like the what the aftermath and or just the was all kinds of like conspiracy behind it or. 00:26:10 Speaker 1: Let me just I want to give give spiel like I did you yesterday at dinner, give him a little bit, just a little bit Ostiola was he went, he ended up going to prison. He was tricked by the American government and captured and went to prison. While he was in prison, WHI, no, we can't go down mouse yet. Uh. He was. He was in prison in South Carolina and they took him to a play in Charleston, like a like a like a Broadway play. And when he went into the play, he was view he's a prisoner of they they took him in into the play, no, to watch the play, and when he was there, they applauded him. This is Ossio, the great King, you know, the great war leader of the Seminoles were actively in war. It would be like us taken, you know, in the nineties, taking Saddam Hussein and out of prison to go watch a Broadway play in the American public going we love this guy. Really yeah, so weird because he was a he was a global you had global fame. And and that to me points back to what I tried to paint a picture of is how the American public viewed these Native American leaders, which is such. 00:27:30 Speaker 2: A weird philosopher, weird money. 00:27:32 Speaker 1: We needed to get rid of them, take their land, do whatever it took to displace them. But we we like, you know, handle it. We treated him like like comic book characters, you know, like mythical creatures, and which is so wild. And then maybe that's all I should give. But he ends up dying in prison, and and to this day there is still an ongoing search for Osciola's head. That's all I'm gonna say. 00:28:06 Speaker 7: You're talking about the portraits to the artists that would stack up. 00:28:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I kind of mentioned it. Yeah, when he was in prison, you know, the the the currency of the day for people to engage, you know, visually, they didn't have photographer, theyd have video, but people painted portraits like it was big time. You would have portraits painted of your family and your grandfathers, and that's all they had. And I mean yeah, the greatest artists in the country flocked to South Carolina to that prison to paint Osciola. In the last days of his life, he spent modeling. He would put on his best clothes and all his accouterments and all he had all kind of little things that he wore, big ostrich plume and uh and he literally George Catlan finished that most famous painting that I put on Instagram two days before Osceola died in prison. 00:28:58 Speaker 5: Really yeah, and that type of behavior, it's just it seems like they knew they were a part of a like a big part of history in the moment. I think sometimes we don't do that right now, but like to take him and be detached enough to take him to a play to show off to everybody is saying like, this guy is going to be living infamy forever, right, He's a part of our history. And it's still he's still alive, it's still happening. And then he got all those painters that are like, this is happening now. I think we lose sight of that a little bit right now, right, Yeah, it's just super interesting. 00:29:33 Speaker 6: Yeah, and he was only thirty four years old, and he didn't look sick in that picture either, and then he died. 00:29:40 Speaker 2: I noticed that, right though. Yeah it was a painting. It wasn't, you know, make me look good. It made me look good. 00:29:50 Speaker 1: So so what I'll I think, what the way we'll we'll talk about this is, uh, I just kind of go around and just tell me what stood out to you, like just what was interesting or or maybe why you didn't know or how much you knew about Osceola before or talk about my guests. You know Sterling Harjoe. Would would you have known who Sterling Harjoe was? Okay, I didn't. I didn't really give him a proper introduction. Sterling Harjoe is a is A is a filmmaker. He just was nominated for is it an Emmy? 00:30:26 Speaker 2: Like? 00:30:27 Speaker 1: He's a he is a up and coming he just got a big time award in the in the It wasn't an Emmy. Yeah, he's a cool guy, so he he was, Uh, but it was cool hearing him. But anyway, Hunter, what stood out to you? 00:30:43 Speaker 7: I mean, I'd probably say getting pushed out of Alabama during the Muskogee uh Creek era and and and just what was going through their minds and in the establishment and how things were set up, what to Kompsa's influence and things like that. 00:31:04 Speaker 1: Wasn't that cool? 00:31:05 Speaker 7: Yeah? You know you kind of wish you knew somehow, like did these paths cross? 00:31:11 Speaker 5: Yeah? 00:31:11 Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, you have no way of I guess really knowing. But now and again the short timeline. He died at thirty four, he goes there at ten, So you're looking at a very small window of what brought him to popularity. 00:31:30 Speaker 1: Well, I think what isn't really even debatable is that his family was heavily influenced by Takumsa. They would have been in his presence and heard to comes to speak. Yeah, and then these are the people that went and raised Osil, you know. So like whether he would have even seen Osill, I mean, he would have been like if he was born in eighteen oh four, which they really don't even know for sure if that's when he was born. But if he was born in eighteen oh four to come to for sure came in eighteen eleven, so he would have been like seven years old, is that right, Yeah, seven years old. He would have just been a du Yeah. 00:32:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. He might have squirrels, you know. 00:32:10 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. He would have known something happened was happening. That was cool, Yeah, but he wouldn't have been paying attention. 00:32:16 Speaker 2: Brains not processing in that at that situe. 00:32:18 Speaker 1: Well nowadays, but that uh, I almost had my wife as a little insert guest, but it was a little too deep of a rabbit hole. Misty. She studies a lot about human development and child development, and there was this big research project that just came out that highlighted the ages of nine to thirteen as the most important years for long term identity. And what they did was they there was a study about Japanese kids, and they raised people that had Japanese parents in America until the age of nine, and then their family moved back to Japan, and those kids, as they grew up, viewed themselves as Japanese. Okay, the other set of the of the of the test, the test was there were the family kids that were raised in Japan from the age of zero to nine and then they moved to America from the ages of nine to thirteen, and those kids viewed themselves as Americans. Do you see because like kids are now, you know, like yeah, like law, they right now are just trying to figure who am I? You know, They're just like shut shut. So my wife told me about that, and I was going to have her on to tell that story. But it was super fascinating because you wouldn't think that would You would think the kids that were born in Japan and lived there till there were nine would be considered themselves Japanese for the rest of their life. But it was it was actually opposite of that because that so so Osceola would have been. 00:34:11 Speaker 7: Yeah, that he too. 00:34:13 Speaker 1: He was in the fire years of their family, implementing that Nativist revival of like we got to get rid of all this European influence. But all that stuff is so fascinating and I love it when we bring in back up a Bear Grease Hall of Famer. So rich we have a we have a legitimate bear Grease Hall of Fame. We're actually we haven't. We haven't done a Hall of Fame induction in two years. Who were about to start the last one would have been, Uh, that's a good question. The Halt Caller. Yeah, I think guy named Halt Collier from Mississippi. The Beargreas Hall of Fame is interesting that some living guys that are still alive today and then some historical characters like Daniel Boone Halt Callier. Uh, Tacumsa is a bear Grease Hall of Famer, but it's also uh speaking of Tennessee, my dear dear friend Roy Clark in East Tennessee Laurel Mountain plots, he's he's still my daughter hunted with them last week. But uh, anyway, we're about to the next time we get the regular render crew together. We're actually going to do a new Bear Grease induction. We're gonna have a you have. 00:35:26 Speaker 2: A vote on the show where you just say, hey, we're doing we have it, we have it. 00:35:30 Speaker 1: Well, I call it's very formal, very formal, and I called to you know, I put the nominations on the table and then then we vote. But it's kind of got to be the people that are regularly because you know, I don't know where Josh stands on some of this stuff. Losing you know, we can't have him, and then. 00:35:57 Speaker 2: You pick your jury. 00:36:00 Speaker 4: All of course, we always we always say it, ma'ham at state run media, we can. 00:36:08 Speaker 2: Put out whatever we want. 00:36:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, nor Frank exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So we are going to have a new induction at some point in the next two months, so be ready for that. Okay, uh, Josh, what's what's that to you? Man? 00:36:23 Speaker 3: Something we talked about and it's super unfortunate, but just for one that their history is not necessarily written, right, it's it's spoken. So for one, you don't know, stories get twisted tradition, you know, And what's super unfortunate about it is all history that is written. You usually have a winner side and a loser side. Right, there's two different I'm glad I went first. We've talked about a lot, but there's two different sides of it, and that perspective is always going to be different. So for really just all Native Americans, we we have the story is that we don't know if it's one hundred percent accurate, and then we have this other side, which is a totally different perspective, you know. So just to hear this and then she was an expert on it, and just to hear you know, just yeah, it was really cool to hear that, because you don't know. You hear things and you say, well, you see that, but then you you read something else. So uh, it was super cool just to kind of hear that side of it. 00:37:24 Speaker 2: Man. 00:37:25 Speaker 1: The analogy that we use to describe, you know, I thought it was pretty pretty powerful, and and I use that analogy on myself. I mean, I'm the one who said it, but I was thinking about it, like what if somebody from another place did not speak my language, just observed my life for however long, and then they were the ones that wrote the history books about me and told about my motivations and what I did. But then they also wanted my land. 00:37:53 Speaker 2: It's called social media. 00:37:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's just like how accurate could it be? 00:38:00 Speaker 7: Well to that? To double down on Josh's point, it's like as you were saying, you got the Florida seminoles have one thought in view versus say the ones in Oklahoma, Yeah, saying completely different things. So not only is it already not written, but you've got fractions of that. 00:38:20 Speaker 4: Even in the written stuff, you got fractions because you have a use today's perspectives. You have a right and a left, and so like if you read one side, it's so tough. Yeah, and so think about adding two hundred years to that. Like when they read about what's going on now, you know, like who are they reading? 00:38:38 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, That's what I like to do on these is just there's no answer, but just it like makes you makes you think about it from just a different perspective. You know, you're just a little more empathetic towards people, you know when you because I think one thing that that's what interests me is looking at a story that from one person spective to another could be completely different, and both side says a story are right, yep, Like there you know, are are good people have the right motivation, but like, the perspective on the story completely changes the way you see it. So it's like I'm sitting here from this chair as an Arkansas Razorback fan and uh and knowing that I'm right, knowing that my team's the best team, but it's possible that somebody could have a different view that would be equal to mine. It's really weird to me, but and more correct, what rich what stood out to you? 00:39:42 Speaker 7: Man? 00:39:42 Speaker 4: I've got so I'm we were talking yesterday. I've I've got a weird not a weird, but I have an American history obsession. So I started reading the O'Reilly killing books and one of them is killing Crazy Horse, And so it goes through it does it's not just about kill a crazy horse, because he's kind of towards the end of what we'll say, at the eradication of Native Americans throughout the country. So but it goes you know, geographical section bisection and I'm sure and I don't remember because it's been a while since I read about Osciola was in there, I'm sure. And so you have that perspective, right, And so it paints Andrew Jackson is this villain, right? 00:40:13 Speaker 2: You know, he was this terrible, awful human being. 00:40:15 Speaker 4: Well, then now I have this through reading those books, I have this, all right, I'm gonna read a biography on every US president and so when I get to Jackson, I have this kind of like bad taste. And I read that book and I'm like, from his perspective, and I'm just putting this as me putting my viewpoint on from reading the book, God, Family Country, and I'm like, that aligns with my views. 00:40:41 Speaker 2: You know, did he do it right? 00:40:42 Speaker 4: Absolutely not. But it's it goes back to that perspective of like who's telling the story right? And and you know, you look at today, right, and we have this crazy election coming up. We won't get political, but it's like there's two sides to every story, and there's bits on both sides that are right, and there's bits on both eyes that are wrong. Yeah, and so man, it is so when we're you know, you're listening to her, You're like, yeah, this is you know, like I'm behind this. And then I step back and I read from Andrew. Now it wasn't even Andrew Jackson's perspective. It was a third party. But you're just like. 00:41:12 Speaker 2: That's I believe in a lot of those. 00:41:14 Speaker 4: So it's so hard to then one hundred two hundred years ago have that different and so it's just so hard, right, you know, you just come off Columbus Day and everybody's politics on that and you're just like, hey, history is rough, you know, and in both sides there's bad and there's. 00:41:31 Speaker 7: Good, right, and it's and it places that importance on like who's telling this story telling the story because like doctor Wickman, you know, her passion behind it kind of sort of came yeah, exactly. So whether it's Ossiola or somebody else, it's when you get that passionate storyteller behind it starts to skew you. 00:41:51 Speaker 2: That's why history is so important. 00:41:53 Speaker 4: You know, there was whole cancel every history everywhere, and you're like, nah, man, we need to like we need to have some perspective, not believe everything we read obviously, like, but it's just it's it's history is important. 00:42:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a This will be on one of the next episodes. But I had an interesting little section of conversation with Sterling Harjoe, who is a Seminole creek in Oklahoma, and basically he started talking about the conflicted position that he has. He's like, man, I love America. I mean, he he's the he's more American than me. He's like, he loves America. But he's like, but it's kind of weird because America literally tried to kill every member of my all my ancestors, like wanted them dead. 00:42:49 Speaker 2: In different ways too, you know. 00:42:51 Speaker 1: And and and so he's like, and here we are in schools like pledge and allegiance to the flag. And he's like, I was, it's always kind of weird to me. But he had such a what when you hear it, it's real interesting because he's not he is not he's not embittered or anything. He yeah, but it's still very real. I mean even today inside the tribes, I mean sometimes it's like, man, that stuff happened so long ago. That's a long time ago. 00:43:18 Speaker 2: Man. 00:43:19 Speaker 1: The tribes in Oklahoma are well, it's not even it's not even they're not even looking back on fresh stuff or you know, the old stuff they're looking back on. And I certainly don't speak for them, but just today struggles with their sovereignty, like because it's a real weird situation, unique situation in Oklahoma, where there's I don't know how many different sovereign nations there are in Oklahoma. Are you're driving to Oklahoma, you're driving into a different country. 00:43:49 Speaker 4: Aren't they trying to sue for some land too? There was something going on. 00:43:53 Speaker 1: There's a lot always going on over there. 00:43:55 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it shows man, Uh Like it depends on how far back in history you look. Like his sentiment about pledging allegiance to the flag, then like, let's take into consideration why all of us are here right now and making the jump across the pond, and what was going on over there, and we were trying to get away from people doing to us what we ended up doing to other people. And it's just like you can keep doing that all the way back to the first couple of hundred people that were here, right, And it's just there's always somebody trying to take what they don't have, and there's always somebody giving it up. 00:44:30 Speaker 2: But that's just the way that history works, right, It just keeps rolling. Yeah. 00:44:33 Speaker 5: It doesn't make it good, No, it doesn't make it better, It doesn't make it easier, but it's important. 00:44:38 Speaker 2: It is a reality of history. 00:44:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, Brent's out to you. 00:44:42 Speaker 2: I liked it. 00:44:43 Speaker 6: You know, forever in history books and movies or whatever, Native Americans were portrayed as savages, and that's what they were referred to as. 00:44:52 Speaker 2: That they had enough. 00:44:55 Speaker 6: Sense and enough self awareness to know that they could just settle dispute on the battlefield, or they could settle dispute on the ball field. And they and they played that game, and then there may have been some folks that died in it, which is unfortunate. But I mean, I mean, that's really taking one for the team, lit literally, but they're they're setting settling disputes like that back then, instead of wiping out whole communities, they settled it there. 00:45:27 Speaker 2: And if we're going. 00:45:29 Speaker 6: By that, that creed that example that they that they did, I guess we now own Tennessee. 00:45:39 Speaker 2: This is now Arkansas. I was watching how I Am the Captain? Look at me? So when lu wins today, then that we. 00:45:56 Speaker 6: But that was that was really interesting to me, that that was that far back that they had enough foresight to think, you know, we're we're wasting each other. But if we're going to if we're going to douke it out, and there's no getting around it, let's let's play this game. 00:46:12 Speaker 2: Yeah there was. 00:46:13 Speaker 1: Doctor Wickman talked about that a little bit more that I just didn't have time to put on there. But uh that game was called some of them called it the Little Brother of War. That was what they referred to describe it was. It was almost in these conversations. I love it because a lot of times there's just this little little tangent that I didn't see coming. And that was one of She wasn't even wanting to talk about ball She was wanting to talk about how they didn't have long term cities built like they were nomadic, and she was using an example and said, when they get when a ballpole gets struck, they'll move then never go back. And then I was like, wait a minute, what's a ballpole? And then she kind of went into that, But uh so I don't actually don't know what it was or how they I think. 00:47:03 Speaker 4: That's important to the story though, because you know, to his perspective, us saying savages or hearing savages. 00:47:08 Speaker 2: When you're growing up or whatever. 00:47:09 Speaker 4: You know, it's not as common now, but that's shows you one way, they weren't savage, So it's almost like it, you know, it would have been cool you know, I'll google it. I'm sure we can find it out o somebody. There's a Wikipedia about it somewhere a bit. 00:47:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Geatt, what's stood out to you? 00:47:28 Speaker 5: And uh, I'd love to give you like some romantic, nuanced perspective. 00:47:34 Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it. 00:47:35 Speaker 5: But probably one of my takeaways, Uh, I have been listening to John Anderson for a long time and had no idea what that song was talking about or who he was with Ossiola, Like I've I've I've sang that part of the song. 00:47:51 Speaker 2: You know, heard Ossiola Crome. No, I just you know, never. 00:47:58 Speaker 4: When you said yesterday, hey, listen the podcast for tomorrow, I was like, oh, cool, it's about the history of that Turkey or. 00:48:06 Speaker 2: All right, learn something that's cool. 00:48:08 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just I mean sometimes we're singing songs we don't know what we're talking about, and I'm from Montana to we Got Power like two years ago. 00:48:17 Speaker 1: Thank you, I have internet. 00:48:19 Speaker 3: That's a new release for you. You just heard it. 00:48:22 Speaker 5: That's right, Yeah, yeah, that's right. 00:48:26 Speaker 1: Actually right here, right here, come on, come on, come on, oh look at that spiral it back. Here's the interesting behind the scenes. Oftentimes I will well let me go back even further. Garrett told me that a lot of big time Instagram or YouTubers will will think about the thumbnail of the YouTube video, maybe even before they make the make the video. I that song is what made me want to do as I just it was such powerful imagery. I did know it was a person I knew as a seminole leader. That's about all I would have known. And I was just like, man if John Anderson said the ghost of Ostiola was crying, there's a story back. 00:49:18 Speaker 5: There, and and Rich just thought that John Anderson was really in touch with how Turkey's felt. 00:49:23 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:49:24 Speaker 1: Sure, And so that was the spark point. And I kind of envisioned like using that song because I'm really interested in where some of this, whether it's hunting or or in this case, just kind of unique history touches mainstream like pop culture. That's interesting to me. And so you know that we're still talking about Ostiola. But the Decompass series I would not have known much about to come, anything about Tucumps nothing. And I was reading a book and it it's set and it talked about this this Shawnee leader and that his name meant panther crossing the sky. And when I when I when I heard what his name meant. And on the night to comes was born, a comet flashed across the sky. That's that's the lore of to Compson's birth. And they called him Panther crossing the sky. Well his yeah, his brother, but his brother was also a major political well he was a more of a religious leg yeah, squad. But when I heard about Panther crossing the sky, I was like, I'm gonna learn about that guy. And then he ends up, you know, I mean, it's just such a fascinating story of who comes to was what did y'all think about, Uh, the all the other Bear Grease characters coming into play, Crockett and then to comes to and then then Boone, what did y'all think? Well, triggered, he was triggered. 00:51:00 Speaker 2: Triggered, you go triggered, it was triggered. 00:51:03 Speaker 1: Uh do you think Boone had a Shawnee wife? Do you remember the series? 00:51:08 Speaker 2: Oh? 00:51:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, zero documentation this much. 00:51:13 Speaker 7: I mean, I think she brings a lot of really good points that it just it wasn't a thing. 00:51:17 Speaker 2: She was confident that it was that it happened. 00:51:19 Speaker 6: Oh, I know when that when that's when that came up. I remember this, and you can go back and listen to that render. Man, you jumped all over me for saying, Man, that's probably just the way it was back then. 00:51:29 Speaker 2: You're like, no, No, he was a he was a religious man. He wouldn't he wouldn't do that. And I thought, then, man. 00:51:35 Speaker 6: You are a product of your Listen a minute, you are a product of your environment. And it very well could have been not absolutely not abnormal at all to do that, And it could have been a position to where he was it not being abnormal, and also it could have been something that fit him into that community to be it. 00:51:58 Speaker 1: Let me know what alexis think about your doctrine, because listen. 00:52:02 Speaker 2: That ain't gonna fly, that ain't going to wash well. 00:52:04 Speaker 1: But listen, listen, this is what I was thinking, and and this is I can just tell you this is true if I'm captured by some foreign army and the only way for Clay Newcombe sitting today married to Misty Newcomb with the value system that I have, the kids that I have, the lifestyle that I have, the biblical doctrine that I have. No, it's not it's the same. And you say, you got to take this woman or die. I'm gonna be like, dude, let's go. I'm out. Just I'm out. 00:52:36 Speaker 2: That's today, and I'm the same way change. I understand. Oh come on now, it absolutely didn't. It's the same today yesterday. I mean, I'm just kidding. 00:52:49 Speaker 1: My point is A is A. I think the point is strong is that like it if his he I'm not saying he had the same belief system is me. 00:53:01 Speaker 2: You have to you have to put yourself. You got to tell the story right, that's what you would do exactly. You don't know what Daniel Boone did, but he's the same as Daniel Boone. 00:53:09 Speaker 1: That's that's where I'm getting passionate about defense of Boone's character. I think if you put Osceola in prison and you you told him to defy his culture at a very base level, he would have said, I ain't doing it. I'm dying. That's what he said. That's what he did. That's what it comes to. I mean, like people that have a rock hard value sism that's connected to their culture will die for it. Garrett, I think he absolutely did it. 00:53:41 Speaker 5: Yeah, man, well, I think it's a it was a different time. I know, you have like a very strong value system and that's been shaped by the world that you've lived in from the time you were born until now. And I think trying to insert yourself, like if you took that same narrative of what it was, five or seven out of the first nine presidents owned slaves, right, Okay, would you own a slave right now? But do you think George Washington share like had a different value system than you did foundationally? 00:54:16 Speaker 2: Right? And so I think it's like really hard to say that product daytime. 00:54:19 Speaker 5: That Daniel Boone from the time he was born to going and being inserted in that tribe would have made him not assimilate or do something like that. 00:54:29 Speaker 2: I just don't think we could say that he would. 00:54:32 Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good point. 00:54:33 Speaker 2: Where was he from nine to thirteen? 00:54:35 Speaker 1: Good point? 00:54:36 Speaker 2: He was a pan That's what I got from this whole podcast. 00:54:42 Speaker 1: No, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you saying. I think it's just a fun like mental. 00:54:47 Speaker 2: Health and you've seen it with people. I mean, people do fall, right, so we are people. 00:54:51 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't put it not to trigger you any further, Clay, but I've seen some and I've seen it personally. Just people strong in their faith make bad decisions. So who knows. 00:55:03 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we don't really know a lot about about Boon's Boon's faith. But just just the assumption if you were well, just the assumption that because it was the the trend of the time, that you would do it, I think is unfair. Yeah, that's all. 00:55:19 Speaker 2: That's all. 00:55:20 Speaker 1: That's all. Okay, Now, how much time or where we at? I have no concept of time. I mean, how long we've been going. 00:55:29 Speaker 5: We're blown over by two hours technically, but you. 00:55:33 Speaker 1: Know, oh we always go over an hour. We're good, We're good. 00:55:39 Speaker 2: I'm not worried about it. 00:55:40 Speaker 1: No, No, I just wanted to make sure we had been going, like an hour and a half. 00:55:46 Speaker 2: Okay, push cord yet again? Do it again? Hey, can we do this whole conversation but condensed? 00:55:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, just as natural? But oh wow, yep, oh it was. It was interesting to me too. So we we did a big series on Crockett and uh Crockett, who was? Who was? You know, it's so not politically correct to like say this, but he was known as an Indian hunter, you know, which is a wild thing to say and think. But like at that time, that's what people became known for. Political figures like would get known in these wars against Native Americans and would gain clout and status and whatnot. He was known as a kind of known as an Indian hunter. But he actually wasn't like today. If you I bet if you pulled a bunch of people here, now, these people would know who Crockett is because we're in we're in. 00:56:45 Speaker 7: The end zone. 00:56:46 Speaker 1: But Crockett, he did fight in the Red Stick War, so he fought against the Creeks under and Uh under Andrew Jackson. And but that incident of watching that really impacted him for the rest of his life. He would not eat potatoes. That's that was what was said. But then you know, he recounted in his autobiography about how like he wasn't cool with that. And then later in his political career when it had been would have been very advantageous for him to side with Andrew Jackson and everything, he vehemently opposed the Indian Removal Act and then even saying I'm doing this so that in the looking there at that blue tick dog, that's not the real smoky. 00:57:32 Speaker 4: Is it. 00:57:34 Speaker 2: Pampered somewhere? 00:57:35 Speaker 1: I bet nice looking bluetick. 00:57:38 Speaker 2: You know. 00:57:38 Speaker 1: He said so in the in in Judgment day, I'm found on the right side, which was a pretty progressive position because I mean, obviously most of America was okay with this and was behind it, you know, And it probably was one of those social deals that if you went and talked to an individual and so, hey, what do you think about us moving all these people out of their home and sending them they might have said, man, it's kind of sad. But then it's like, but what what's your stance on the political part of it? It would have been like, well, I kind of want to live in Alabama, you know. 00:58:17 Speaker 2: Yep. 00:58:17 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's one of those deals where they're. 00:58:20 Speaker 4: The human side of it, probably detached a little bit from the political side of it. 00:58:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot like today. 00:58:26 Speaker 1: And I think Crockett he saw those people, yeah, getting killed and then and then he did he did have rapport. 00:58:33 Speaker 2: With what's perspective too, Like he was in it. He saw the suffering. 00:58:36 Speaker 4: When you're detached from it and you don't see that, you don't see that stuff every day. You're like a that doesn't happen, It's not. 00:58:42 Speaker 2: Everything changes once it becomes personal once it's real. 00:58:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. 00:58:47 Speaker 7: A lot different written on you know in the newspaper. 00:58:49 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you're like, oh, there's no human aspect of it. You know, you just read over it. 00:58:53 Speaker 4: It's just a headline or it's just a something you see and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's that's ridiculous. And then when you see it in person, you see the you're like, oh, dang, yeah, there's a human side to it. 00:59:03 Speaker 2: Well. 00:59:05 Speaker 1: I felt like that was a redemptive moment in Crockett's life, and it's it's actually what spurred him to go to Texas because he didn't get re elected because of that, partly because of that position in his stance against Andrew Jackson, and he was kind of ticked off and was like, you know what, I'm going to Texas. And he goes down to Texas and dies. We were three months in the Alamo. But I also thought about I almost didn't put that story in the podcast, and I'll tell you why. I knew that a lot of my Seminole Native American friends were going to listen to this, and I thought about, like, what if we told a story about your family, they got something like very gruesome and dark. You know. We it's so easy for us to because here I am almost saying, like telling this story and at the end there was something positive, which I saying. This ended up being a place where Crockett kind of redeemed himself in my mind his stance on removal, and like, I bet if they were talking about my family, I would be like, that's a pretty nice spin. Yeah you see what I'm saying. Yeah, for sure, so I'm conscious of that kind of stuff. 01:00:22 Speaker 7: But it But anyway, so will we hear any of those same guests in part two all. 01:00:30 Speaker 1: And there'll be a new guest at some point. It was going to be a new guy. 01:00:34 Speaker 4: The level of editing was impressive, like that you had to go to all these different places and then intertact that that was that was way above my pay grade. But my podcast, I'm like, nah, dude, hits starting when it's about an hour and a half, we're done, you know, I. 01:00:46 Speaker 2: Mean, that was that was impressive. 01:00:47 Speaker 5: But the audience probably doesn't realize with Clay is when like some people will just have a mission of getting a podcast and they start on one day and end on the next day and then that's the podcast play will go months getting feedback and and sound bites about multiple podcasts he has in his mind from different people and different guests, and then it all comes together like this, and it's it is intensive. I've never seen and I'm just gonna toot your horn for a little bit. I have never seen a podcast host. 01:01:20 Speaker 2: Sorry, I know, I don't. 01:01:22 Speaker 5: I've never seen a podcast host. They'll take more personal ownership in the edit and splicing together of a podcast than Clay Like it is. 01:01:31 Speaker 2: It's really cool to watch. 01:01:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it man now. And and that's where I'm grateful to. Uh, just having the opportunity to dedicate this much time. I mean, like, imagine if you were working nine to five stock and groceries. 01:01:49 Speaker 4: And then and then had to train, did that early on, not stocking groceries, but yeah, it was hard. 01:01:54 Speaker 1: You wake up everything you think about training. 01:01:57 Speaker 2: I think about it. 01:01:58 Speaker 1: I get to wake up every day and think about content for the most part, you know, and uh, it shows like it's yeah, well, and and telling these stories has been I love it. I really do love it. 01:02:13 Speaker 7: Did she go on? You know, she talked about that figurine that her friend found in Belgium that was made in Italy. She going any more like off camera about like his world renowned popularity other than just. 01:02:30 Speaker 1: Not really not really. I mean there you start looking around and you see a lot of stuff, not just from Osceola, but just like Native American kind of totems and different parts and just all over. It's all over, yeah, everywhere. But we are going to talk about the Florida State Seminoles, you know, being a college football. 01:02:56 Speaker 2: Act as a mascot. 01:02:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:02:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're pretty passionate about it too. 01:02:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a pretty interesting story there. But uh, well man again, we're in uh, we're in Knoxville. Game is gonna start here in a little bit. 01:03:11 Speaker 5: I got something for you, okay, James, Peter, Nancy, Paulie William we didn't do trivia. 01:03:20 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 01:03:21 Speaker 2: Now now you just have to ask what is that. 01:03:26 Speaker 1: I can't believe speed trivia a right. The first person to spout it off wins. I can't believe I always do this. I gotta have somebody keeping me on track. Trivia, Okay, whoever gets the most points and just whoever I says gets the point get the point? No, no, hassling. 01:03:45 Speaker 7: Okay. 01:03:46 Speaker 1: Number one. 01:03:47 Speaker 7: What Spanish word cimarron? 01:03:51 Speaker 1: One point? You keep you keep your own score. The question was what Spanish words is the name seminole taken from cimarron means wild ones. It's pretty cool. Number two Okay, Josh Bilmaker made these questions that I think he made him for, like his like young kids. They're pretty They're pretty basic. I was looking for, Josh, I was looking for something a little more from Okay, where was the Ostiola statue gifted to doctor Patricia Wickman purchased and made from where Italy? Okay was happy Belgium. Somebody put those two together. Okay, point Josh. 01:04:34 Speaker 2: Well he was asking about it. I feel like these are unfair. He already knows them all. 01:04:38 Speaker 1: Well, okay, you get that point, you get the point one to one. Coach number three, Okay, now this one. Just raise your hand and I'll call on you. Okay, who can give a decent explanation of the genealogy of Ostiola leading to his English name? Which was so the answer? Hold his English name and the genealogy, Garrett, do you have an answer? 01:05:06 Speaker 2: Billy Powell? 01:05:07 Speaker 5: Okay, this is the English name and he was one eighth native of Scottish origin. 01:05:14 Speaker 1: Okay, well that's not I'm asking for a decent Well. 01:05:19 Speaker 2: You want you want just what I just said? Yeah, what he just said. 01:05:23 Speaker 5: Uh, James was his great great grandpa. You actually got it wrong on your podcast. It was his great great grandpa in seventeen sixteen to James, and Peter was his son. 01:05:39 Speaker 4: Uh. 01:05:40 Speaker 5: Then Nancy it is Peter's daughter. Then Paulie was Nancy's daughter that hooked up William yep, which was Billy's dad. 01:05:48 Speaker 1: That was impressive. That was impressive. 01:05:50 Speaker 2: That's why I get your hands somewhere. All right. 01:05:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're giving you two points. 01:06:00 Speaker 2: It's a tag game. 01:06:00 Speaker 1: This is y'all can get your own podcast if you want to make the rules. 01:06:03 Speaker 2: This is my rules. Okay, that's like those sandwiches. 01:06:07 Speaker 1: Okay, this is this one. This is a low hanging fruit. Y'all be ready, hands on the buzzers. What does Austin oldest name mean? Oh? 01:06:20 Speaker 2: The black Drink. Oh yeah, the name of the podcast, the Black Drinking. 01:06:25 Speaker 1: Who said it singer? The correct answer is black Drink singer, Black drink singer. Did you say, Okay, what's the score? 01:06:33 Speaker 2: Then three three one two. I got six got nothing. Okay, I feel like that one is a little shady. I just know I have one more point than Tennessee. 01:06:44 Speaker 1: I mean, okay, this one is like way too hard, Josh, like turned the throttle like all the way to the top. I didn't even know who this was. Okay, who is the artist famous for painting the portrait of Osceola stabbing pains? Treaty with the Night. 01:07:00 Speaker 2: That's a winner. Takes all of the. 01:07:03 Speaker 7: Sterling, har Joe, I remember that they disagreed that it happen. 01:07:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, famously. 01:07:11 Speaker 1: It's it's like a modern guy that was the chief of the in the Seminole tribe. The sterling stated his name. I don't think anybody's gonna get it. I wouldn't remembered. His name is Enoch Kelly Haney. 01:07:24 Speaker 5: Yeah. 01:07:25 Speaker 2: It doesn't even ring a bell. 01:07:26 Speaker 1: Actually yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks Josh. Okay, Josh, let's see last question. But there's actually two more questions, but we've already answered this one. So hands on the buzzers. What percentage Muskogee Creek? Do historians agree that was? Okay, I gotta I gotta say one quick thing. Some of the Seminoles dispute some of the genealogy of of Osiola. 01:07:55 Speaker 2: The Floridians are the ones in Oklahoma. 01:07:58 Speaker 7: The Floridians dispute. Well, oh, no, I guess you could be either way. 01:08:01 Speaker 1: I can't. 01:08:02 Speaker 2: I don't. 01:08:02 Speaker 1: I'm not even going to go into that much detail, but there is dispute. Some people are like, no, he wouldn't seven eighths Scottish. 01:08:11 Speaker 4: So that was interesting too that the him being part of the community had more weight than the actual blood, you know, because we we attached so much blood. 01:08:21 Speaker 7: Which is interesting when you look at the portrait, I mean, you don't see one eighth in seven eighth? 01:08:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure? Did you? 01:08:27 Speaker 1: Did you like it when doctor Wickman said, you're you're looking at this all wrong. Yeah, you're focusing on what non Indians focused on. That was another time she got put me in my place and slap it. She was like, quit talking, let me this is my podcast. 01:08:42 Speaker 2: Boy. 01:08:43 Speaker 1: Yep, all right, last question, last question, and right now the current score is three to one to two. I got what was the name of the village where Osceola was born? Oh? Said multiple must gogi. No, I would have had a hard time with it. The correct answer is to Lashie and it's it's in Alabama, in Alabama, and they know right where the town was. I'm not certain exactly what modern town is there, but like that's where he was born. So congratulations, bring me down? 01:09:27 Speaker 2: Was it really? 01:09:28 Speaker 1: What's a good tie breaker we could do? We can't have the tie. 01:09:31 Speaker 2: What was the year he moved fourteen? There? 01:09:34 Speaker 4: It was? 01:09:35 Speaker 1: Whoa do you know that was happening? I almost want to count that question. 01:09:41 Speaker 2: The year he moved to. 01:09:43 Speaker 1: Would you have known that as quick as him? 01:09:45 Speaker 7: Yeah? 01:09:46 Speaker 1: Okay, great he would you would have you have known it quicker than him? 01:09:49 Speaker 7: No, I'm not saying quicker. 01:09:51 Speaker 2: Come on, dude, Yes, get another question, another question. 01:09:55 Speaker 1: If he would have said yeah, I would have got it quicker. I would have You know, this is a rare moment in the man life when he's able to just like public. Harasso helped me with another question. 01:10:08 Speaker 7: Oh, what was Andrew Jackson's nickname? Old hickto? 01:10:19 Speaker 1: Congratulations? Congratulations, great win. 01:10:24 Speaker 2: Was our winner? Jackson? Sorry, it's just hard losing first. 01:10:31 Speaker 1: Thanks guys, It's been like fun, a lot of fun. 01:10:37 Speaker 2: Thanks. 01:10:37 Speaker 1: Appreciate you absolutely great, Garrett Hunter, awesome, thanks guys, appreciate it.

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