00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon. This episode number two hundred and sixteen, and today in the show, Dan and I are joined by a brand new hunter and we're taking on the enormous task of trying to teach him everything he needs to know to get started deer hunting in just an hour and a half. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. And today on the show, we're doing something that I've wanted to do for a long time now, and I've kind of had it on my list of to do is, but I kept pushing off, pushing off, pushing it off, and only we're now doing it, and that is providing a beginner's guide to deer hunting. Um. And you know, the huge proportion of our audience, probably the majority will definitely the majority of our audience for this podcast is comprised of of really serious, really experienced deer hunters, deer hunters that that don't need a beginner's guide. So to those of you in that group, don't turn this one off yet. Because there is something here for you too. But I also get lots and lots of emails and messages from people on the other side of the spectrum who are brand new to deer hunting and looking for help, asking me all sorts of questions, um or or talking about the fact that you know, up to this point they just had to jump into the podcast and try to figure things out. Was like, go. But I've always wanted to provide something better, something I could point to and say, hey, this is where you can get started, um, you know, true launching point for those of you who are new to all this. And so that's what I want to do here today. We're going to cover everything that Dan and I can think of to help get a brand new deer hunter started. And to help us do that, I've got a guest. And this is where I think this episode gets particularly interesting, even if you're an experienced hunter, because this guest is a brand new hunter himself, um and I brought him along to actually be the voice of the new hunter, to actually provide kind of you know, this podcast is speaking to new hunters. Now, we're actually have a new hunter on the show with us to listen to us and to say, hey, this doesn't make sense, or Hey tell me more about this, or hey that's all great, but what I really want to know about is A B and C. So as we walk through a beginner's guide, my friend and this new hunter, Connor, he's gonna listen along and jump in when he needs more. He's gonna jump in when necessary, and I think it's gonna lead to a couple of cool things. Um. Number one, like I just kind of mentioned, we're gonna get to cover, you know, the questions and concerns that new hunters really have. I think that if me and Dan just did this on our own, there would be the risk of us glossing over certain things that we would just assume that new people would know, but maybe they wouldn't. So by actually having Conn here with us, he's going to call us out and say, hey, what in the world does crepuscular mean or something like that, and we'll make sure to cover and make sure to cover this. Well, we'll get to that dan, um. And then number two, if you are an experienced hunter with aspirations of someday helping somebody else get into hunting, you know, if you want to help your kids or your friends, or whoever it might be. If you want to help someone else get into this community, in this lifestyle, I think this podcast is going to provide you a great opportunity to kind of get a preview of what that process might be like, because now you can actually hear from another new hunter and hear about what his questions are, you know, here about what his concerns were, here about which things confused him, so that when you go about this on your own, you'll have some different things that kind of help you prepare. So I think this is gonna be valuable for both new hunters and experienced. Obviously two different goals there, but I'm excited about it. That's our game plan. I think this should be and will be a really helpful resource. And um, that's what we're gonna do. So before we get to that, though, Dan, does that? Does that sound like a good plan? Is there anything else we should add? Um? What are your thoughts? No? I really think this is good because not only does it force me and you too dump it down a little bit, it also, um is something that I think as we get more and more in depth into hunting strategy, that we forget the basics sometimes, and I think that is what causes you and me because we are both self admittedly do this uh overthink when we probably don't need to. And that's a good point sometimes it it really does come down and just taking a step out of all like the minutia, like you all the details like sometimes sometimes it's good to take a step back and just get back to basics. Um. You know, during well I won't go into rabbit holes here, but I at one place, one time of the year, I always find myself needing to do that as during the run when I get over obsessed with all these little things. And then I just said, okay, take a step back, remember remember the core fundamentals of hunting at this time of year, and that usually gets me back on the right track. But but we'll talk more about that, I guess a little bit later here once Connor gets on here. Um, first off, before we do get in, I gotta tell you something for you know, congrats on the big news that just went down last week between you and meat eater Man. That's uh from from you know, a contributor to this podcast to also a follower of Wired Wired to Hunt. You know, I speak for the Wired to hunt you know nation that congrats, man, that's a big thing. Thank you, buddy, I really appreciate that. And uh, I appreciate all of your contributions and help along the way. And uh I think there's lots of exciting stuff ahead and um, you know, hopefully with this new partnership, I think you and me will get hurt by more than the three or four people that follow us right now. So it should be good. My mom, your your wife, and two our friends. Yeah, my wife does not listen to this pocket point. You guys probably wouldn't be still married. That's right now. You just can't go getting this, uh this, you know, claiming this celebrity status. Now, you know, you gotta remember the little guys like me and Further and Corey and all the you know, the the guys you know, your your bros from back in the day. Oh man, No, no celebrity status here at all. Because you're absolutely right. Whenever I'm around you, guys, I am brought back down to earth real quick. I'm reminded of my place on the total. That means you've made it. That means you've made it. No, no, just just trying to keep someone's knocking you down. If someone's knocking you down, especially your buddies, right, they're giving you ship. That means that means you're doing something right. It's a good way to look at it. Yeah, Man, exciting exciting times and um yeah, I'm looking forward and where things go and excited to see, uh what kind of cool stuff you continue to do with Sportsman's Nation. And man, we we got a lot, We got a lot going on these days. Buddy, we are now real quickly here. I don't want to go too far down our usual rabbit holes. But for several months now, even even last year, we were talking about some of the things that you were going to be doing to help prepare yourself for future hunting seasons. And one of those things that you talked about was investing in your relationship. Right And uh, right, you've got You've got a great big brownie point trip coming up, don't you. Yeah. Man, I tell you, my wife got mad at me. This was a while ago. She's like, we haven't even gone on a vacation or a honeymoon yet. Uh. And you're playing all these elk hunting trips and you old deer hunting trips and and all this stuff and you haven't taken me anywhere, and I'm just like, I took you to the State Fair one year. Obviously that you know that doesn't count. But uh so I said, you know what, this is gonna be good for not only her, but for us to get away from the kids, which is much needed. Um, to take some stress out of her life and give her, which is with what is her dream vacation And I'm taking her to let's see next. So you're listening to this on a Thursday. By this time the following Tuesday, I will be in an airplane flying to San Francisco with my wife and we're going to enjoy a day in San Francisco and then three days in like Sonoma and Napa Valley. My wife, my wife loves wine, so we're gonna do that whole you know, take the wine tours and go eat at some nice restaurants and maybe even fit in a hike in the Redwoods and you know, take a dip in the Pacific Ocean. So we, uh, we got a big, big vacation coming up. And basically I'm doing this to keep my wife happy, so she continues to allow me to go on these uh these big trips. That's awesome, dude, Well I think that's uh, that's dear beginner's deer hunter guy tip number one is make sure to invest in prioritize your family right because that that's a good thing. Makes the world go round. When the wife's happy, you can help more. That's a fact. My wife literally has a sign over my bed that says happy wife, Happy life. A constant daily reminder, A speaking of your speaking of your NAPA Valley, Sonoma. Portion of the trip. Uh, not too far from there is Point Reyes. I think it's a national lake shore. I think it's Point Reyes National Lake Shore, I think, or not lake shore, but whatever it is. Um yep. Really recommend checking that out if you're looking for a hike that's close to the was I think it's just south of it. Really amazing, very cool place for some hiking on the ocean. We saw sea lions and big trees and beautiful sites. So that's when you might want to add to the itinerary or look at least. Yeah, it's all, it's already on the list. Nice. Nice, Okay, So let's we're gonna stay focused today. UM, so we're gonna have Connor come on here in a second. He's a friend of mine who joined me a couple of weeks ago for his very first hunt ever. So in a second here we're gonna call him in, get him to tell us a little bit about that first hunt, and then um he he already has talked about being interested in hunting again in the future, maybe trying deer hunting. So that's why he's going to be here with us, to to play that role and to really get himself ready for the hunt. So are you ready, Dan, Let's do it all right, Let's take a quick break to thank our partners at White Tail Properties, and then we will get Connor on the line. This week with White Tailed Properties, we were joined by Adam Hating, a land specialist out of Ohio, and Edam is going to be telling us about how to develop a checklist as a property buyer. One thing that I would suggest whenever I you know, if I was going in to look at a property, I would sit down and I would just ask myself several questions, A, you know, how big of a property do I want be? Obviously what is my budget? And then you know, I would go in to see like the just detailed specifics, um, you know, and am I wanting big open woods? Am I wanting crop fields around? Just depending on where you're out in the country. Um, you know, am I wanting water on the property? And if water is not there, do I have capabilities of putting upon them myself? Um? You know, there's just so many things that you can think about, um and write actually on paper and make a list that will help it you being, you know, help a buyer whenever they're looking at properties physically or filtering through them online, they can actually go through and eliminate properties or check off properties. Um. But then also just kind of keep a list. I mean, if you if you narrow what you want to look at down to three or four or five properties, and you have a checklist, even in an excel file or something else, so easy to go in there and then check off and look at the ones that have hit more criteria than the others, and it would help you choose the property that's best for you. If you'd like to learn more and to see the properties that Adam currently has listed for sale, visit white tail properties dot com. Backslash Hayden that's h A Y D E N alright, we're back in with me and dan Is my buddy Connor and I had this idea of doing this Beginner's Guide to deer hunting, you know, as we mentioned for a while now, but then just recently, I said, we can make this a lot better if we had a brand new hunter to kind of check us as we go. And Connor, you jumped to my mind right away because we just a couple of weeks ago spent time hunting together and that was your very first hunt, right, my very first one ever was actually my first time ever shooting a gun as well. Yeah, can you can you walk folks through how that happened? I mean, what the scenario was. Because we're going on this turkey hunt in southwest Michigan and m pick pick it up from there. You're meeting us in southwest Michigan. How did you get there and what happened right when you did? Yeah? No, absolutely, So I'll give you a little bit more background too. So I grew up in Chicago in an urban setting. I've lived in New York for a few years, and now I'm living out in Los Angeles, so you know, in all those cities, just being a big urban dweller. You know, hunting has never been a huge focal point for the people I've been around. And it's funny, Mark one of the podcasts I was listening to recently, where you said you did your internship in New York and just kind of driving you crazy because you were surroonded by all this concrete all the time, and there was nowhere for you to hunt, and there's nowhere for you to be in wilderness. So that's kind of how I've always spent my life and that's part of the reason I've never really had that experience. Um, but no, man, a few weeks ago, going up to Michigan with you, Steve and uh and be honest, was was really actually one of the coolest experiences of my life. And we made it even more special too. It was the fact that you know, all three of you guys are from Michigan and you already had a lay of the land, and I could tell it was pretty nostalgia inducing for you guys as well. So you know, we got there on the Friday night, Um, you know, we were a bit later than expected, and we go right out to the take some target practice, and like I said, I had never shot a gun before in my life, any type of gun, maybe a pellet gun when I was eight or nine years old. But we get out there, you know, we're sitting down, and you know, I take my first shot, and I had no idea the type of kickback that I'd be experiencing. So it felt like I got a nice Charlie horse right in my right in my shoulder. Yeah, being around all the guys, I I didn't want to, you know, show them that it actually hurt more more than uh um. So anyway, Yeah, the night was great, and I actually didn't do a lot of sleeping the night before the actual hunt. We gotta, I gotta, I gotta stop you really quick. That kind of you missed one important detail. Your very first time shooting gun was literally after dark by the headlights of a truck in the backyard because of how late you guys got in. So it's like, welcome the camp, turn on the head lamps, and let's get them shooting exactly exactly. And we uh and I think uh, I took three shots that night too, so that's all I had going in And uh. The funny part is, um, that night, like I said, I didn't do much sleeping, so I was listening to YouTube sounds of turkey calls. So I'm like, you know what, I don't want to be that guy that's holding everyone back. I want to help out in any sort of capacity I can. So you know what, maybe if I'm able to identify these turkey sounds, then I'll be somewhat useful tomorrow. So we wake up at uh four fift, crack it dawn. We get out there at around five, and we're paring off in twos. Uh it is me and the lobnin Eagle, be honest, but tell us. And of course you know, I'm an eager beaver. When I get out there, I'm trying to, you know, prove my worth and so everything. Every single sound I hear, I go, y, honest, honestly, there's a gobbo over there. There's a gobble and he goes Connor, No, no, no, that's a crane. That's not a turkey. Next sound I hear, I go, oh, honest, honest, I gotta read on one over there. He goes, no, that's also not a turkey. So then I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna shut my mouth and I'm gonna let the pro do his work here, and so within about ten or fifteen minutes, y Honest gets a great read on a few birds, sets us up perfectly, and he basically just tells me, all right, Connor, I'm gonna set up the decoys. I'm gonna do the calls. All I need you to do is sit against that tree, turn the safety on the gun and wait for me to tell you to shoot. I go, okay, that sounds great. He sets up the decoys, he comes back, sits next to me, starts doing some calls, starts doing some calls, and literally, within about seven or eight minutes, two birds come like screaming down this meadow and they're coming in real fast, and so my heart is starting to beat. The adrenaline is full force, you know. I unleashed the safety, put the gun on my knee, and Janice just tapped me on the shoulder. He goes now, and I took the shot, and it was kind of one of those I've heard you guys, some of you guys talked about before. It was kind of one of those blackout moments. Um, super exhilarating, super amazing, and uh yeah, took the shot and loan, behold there he went, and you know, one of the things you told me, Mark was even if you don't get a turkey that day, just enjoy the experience. Just enjoy the sights and the sounds being out there, enjoy the camaraderie, because that's also what it's all about. And so for me, it was it was extremely exhilarating and eye opening and I couldn't have had a better first experience it was. It was so cool that it worked out that way for you too, because, like you just mentioned the night before, I was trying to make sure we set expectations, you know, relatively low. Didn't want you to think that it was going to happen super easy right away, and because usually it doesn't, but miraculously, this time it really did. Um that was cool. And not only did you have that success right away in the morning, but like ten minutes later, I was hunting half mile away or something or whatever it was, and I got a bird first thing in the morning, and maybe ten minutes later after that, our other friend Jason got his first turkey ever. Um. So it was a magical morning. It was just kind of all the stars aligned and made for just that perfect situation. Um. What what was it like though, because you probably heard if you listen to that one podcast where me and Steve and Janice were talking about some of our early experiences, you probably heard us talk about, you know what that moment was like when we walked up on our first deer or the first animal that we had that we had killed and hunted, that hunted and killed. And what was that like for you? Was it? Um? I don't know what were you feeling when you realize why I just took this animal's life, I'm gonna eat this animal or anything? There? Was it all just kind of a blur? Yeah. I mean, like I said, it was pretty exhilarating. I've always been a very carnivorous person. I've always loved eating meat. And know the way I thought about it was, you know, unfortunately a lot of the meat did I eat. Those animals are unfortunately killed in a lot more in humanely ways and in humane ways. Um, so you know it was it was It was sort of a bit of a shock at some point, but you know, I think it was more exhilarating than anything. And um, it was just kind of a really cool experience. And then to be able to consume that you know eat it a week later? Was was? That was great as well? Even though you know my shot wasn't great because I kind of got it in the breast, so I was I was spitting on a lot of babies when I was eating it. So there's a lot of how How was the how was the prep in the eating? Was it pretty good? What would you kind of recipe to try? Um? You know, I actually had a family member helped me out. I've never been been much of a cook. Uh. With my job, I've been working long hours. I'm a big takeout guy. So I had to consult a real shaft to help me out. And I hate to admit that, but that's that's the God's on us truth. That's it must have been pretty cool still to eat that and know that you were part of that process from beginning to end, right exactly. I did have to give you know, my family member four warning that she might be spitting out babies as well, So just choose slowly. Yeah, and you you you breasted and cleaned that bird out yourself too. Um, that was an interesting experience, right, It certainly was, But you're not giving yourself enough credit. You you did kind of walk me right through it, which I needed all the help I can get. But UM, yeah, no, that that really was. Yeah, it was awesome. Um. And one of the first things you said though, I remember me and me and Dirt got back from our hunting. You and Yas got back from your hunt. We met at the truck and you were starting to tell your story, and then you said, like, I got the I got the itch, I got the I got the feeling now like the fever. You were already like, let's go hunt another one. You wanted to get going after more birds. Unfortunately you only out one tag in Michigan. Um. But then I asked you very soon after that, and I want to ask you a getting to still see if you still feel the same way, But are you still interested in in the future hunt again? Absolutely, And I'll say this it's it's it's not even about getting the animal as much, but not to be redundant. It was it was the camaraderie the whole weekend. You know. It was getting out in nature and being more tuned to sites and sounds that maybe I would have taken for granted before and getting away from you know, being on my phone or being on my computer or being in this urban setting where it's just you know, car horns and people yelling. It was. It was a really eye open experience. So yes, sign me up, let's already get planned on the next one. Yeah, I mean that, that's that's so cool for me to hear. I love hearing your thoughts and your experiences from that, um, because it is something that you know, Dan and myself and so many of others we have. We have this deep love for this, for this activity, for this lifestyle, and there's so many people that have never been exposed to in any way, shape or form, and sometimes there's negative kind of connotations or stereotypes around it to make them think that it's something they never would want to get involved in. Um. But to hear someone have such a positive experience like you did, UM, that's that's encouraging. So um that's kind of why I want to get you on the podcast now though, Connor was because I know you're interested in going on future hunt. I think that future hunt should be a deer hunt, So UM, me and Dan are gonna try to prepare you for that future hunt. If you're up for a little bit of deer hunting one on one, what do you say I am a perfect student for deer hunting one on one because I I'm starting at square one. I got my notepad out right now. Awesome, Dan, any thoughts before we dive into the curriculum. Did you like kind of story? And doesn't that Isn't that like a great thing to hear? Right now? Here's the deal because oftentimes when you have a season or your first hunting experience like what he had, Connor, I'm just preparing you that hunting is not always on guaranteed success. So for me especially, I went years and years without being successful and had to appreciate nature. Um, so just remember that next year, if you don't get a bird, or if you don't run into a turkey, to stay patient, stay calm, and you're gonna get frustrated, because we all do. But uh it that every time you have a really shitty season and you come out of it and the next season is great, you just appreciate it that much more. Yeah. No, I totally understand that too, And that's one of the things that that Mark and Steve we're telling Jason and I as well as like listen, man, you guys were spoiled getting one within the first hour that is that does not happen. Um, So no, that yeah, that's definitely something I got in the back of my mind for sure. It's also go ahead. Also, do you have a girlfriend right now? I do not? Okay, good? Good, because if you had a girlfriend oral wife right now and you started getting into hunting, that's just the recipe for disaster. Man. So so now that you're falling in love with this, it might be Uh, it's definitely a conversation that's gonna have to be had with whoever. You know, your next partner is like, Hey, I'm a hunter now I I go away for a long periods of time. It's good to be good to be getting a head start before the relationship. Um. But to your earlier point to Dan, that's almost like the perfect place to start when it comes to when it comes to this, that being to have you know, reasonable expectations, like it should not be your expectation that when you head out for a hunt, especially early on, that you're going to get a deer or turkey or a squirrel or a rabbit or whatever it is that you're hunting, that you're gonna get one right away or every time. Um, and aren't in any hunt is it's a challenge, it's going to take a lot of work. It's gonna take a lot of mistakes and learning from those mistakes and getting better. Um So. One of the things I feel like happens with a lot of people that maybe don't have a mentor or someone who can kind of walk them through all this stuff is that they go out there and then it doesn't go well, and they try a handful of times maybe, and they just get frustrated, they get disheartened, and they give up. Um So, I think, right out the gate gate, don't give up, Like realize it's gonna be a challenge, but it is so worth it once you start wrapping your head around these things, and it takes time. And for context, I grew up in a hunting family, like I grew up learning stuff related to hunting right from the time I was walking pretty much. And I still didn't kill my first deer until I was I think it was eighteen years old or something like that. So I had a lot of years, a lot of time spent hunting right, never filled the tag um So. And I think Dan, you were you know, a teenager too, right, Oh, I started uh, deer hunting, nothing serious. I come from a deer hunting or a hunting family. We fished and my uncles did some trapping, but there was no hunting in our family until I was about twelve or fourteen. I can't really remember when I started, but I didn't kill my first deer with a bow until I was So there you go a lot of a lot of a lot of bumps on the road along that way, right, absolutely. Yeah, and you guys, you guys both prefer bows. Well, yeah, I would say that I think for not everyone, but for a lot of people. Once you get like really serious into hunting and you do it a lot, you just want to find ways to extend your season. You want to have as much time spent outdoors. There's many different opportunities. Um and so yeah, moving to two archery equipment is a way to do that. It makes it much more challenging. It also opens up much longer seasons, um and it's it is a different experience. UM. So that's a good point. Though. I think most of what we'll talk about here today we'll kind of well, I'll try to frame once we get into some of the strategy and stuff, maybe we should like. As we go through this, Dan, we'll say, if you're if you're hunting with a bow, you know, think about X. If you're hunting with a gun, you can think about why. Um. And that's another thing I guess I would say too, is that if you're beginning using a firearm, probably is what most people used to get started, simply because it's a little bit easier to figure that out. It's a little bit more of I think people become more comfortable with a firearm more quickly than with a bow. Um. So would you agree with that, Dan, that for most people, starting with a firearm might be the best way unless they're already like really interested in archery or already experienced with archery. Um, if you don't have like a passion for that right out the get go, a firearm might be the easiest way to get started and get in the field. Would you Is that about right? You know, I'm gonna agree with an asterisk because I because the statistics are showing that crossbow hunting is on the rise big time. So if you kind of want the best of both worlds, let's say like a state like Ohio I believe allows crossbow hunting or other states that allow you to use a crossbow to hunt. That might be that might be a good first start for somebody, Um, just because you get to have the archery season, but use a weapon that's a little bit more accurate, uh, and have some more long range opportunities than than a bow. That's a really good point. That's a very good point. It's kind of the best of both worlds for a beginner. That is a great way to go. Um. Right, I'm glad you mentioned that. So here here's kind of where I want to go with this, and I kind of layout, like the the planned the outline of, at least in my head, how how I'm going to walk you through this counter. I kind of want to talk to you a little bit about kind of the biology and behavior of deer, so kind of get you just a little bit of a foundation as far as how deer operate, what matters to them, the things that we as hunters need to know about them. And then we're gonna talk through a little bit about how to find a place to hunt, how to then you know, get you know, prepared for the hunt. You know, so where to look for deer, where to set up, where you're going to hunt some of those things that you just need to know before you actually have the hunting season open. And then we'll talk about things that we're thinking about when you actually go out there in the woods on that day when you are going to hunt, stuff like, you know, when should I go out, how long should I stay out, what should I do I'm out there in the woods, things like that. Um, we'll talk about what happens when you're actually about to take a shot at a deer, and then finally what to do afterwards. So how do you know, how do you deal with it? Gut it, clean it, get it out of the woods. A little bit about processing, a little bit about you know, how to get that in the freezer and make sure you've got good food to eat. So that's kind of the direction at a very very high level. I'm thinking of taking, um, but well I'm sure we'll take a winding path to get there. Um. So first off, and Dan, you jump in here whenever you whenever you want. But the first I thought we should talk about deer the animal itself, all right. So white tailed deer are, if not one of the very most prolific mammals in North America, or at least in the United States and really across North America. They're almost across the entire lower forty eight states. So as far as like big game species, UM, they are probably the greatest opportunity out there for people because they're so present, they're very adaptable. They can live outside of New York City. They can live in the farm country of Iowa by dan they can live UM in northern idao and the mountains. They can live in southern Florida and the swamps. They're kind of all over the place, so it's it's the kind of animal that is most likely going to be somewhere near you. And they are a beautiful, fascinating, interesting animal. They're challenging animal to understand and hunt, and they provide some of the absolute best food out there. I mean, venison is is just off the charts as far as good a protein to eat. UM. But they're smart, they're cag So a few things need to know about a deer. If you're gonna try to hunt a deer, you need to realize that they have three senses that are constantly providing them kind of their their defense mechanisms to make sure that they can stay alive. Number one, Their strongest sense is smell, so they have tremendous noses um their sense of smell compared to us humans. I don't remember what the ratio is, but I'd say it's something like a thousand times more scent receiving kind of receptacles or whatever might be in that knows that allows them to pick up just so much greater detail in smell. They can smell from a much, much greater distance. So that's something you always have to be thinking about. And this is different than turkeys because turkeys they don't really have that strong sense of smell. So when we're hunting those turks, we never really considered what if, you know, if they might smell us or anything. We're just worried about them seeing us. But with deer, you have to think about scent all the time. So you'll hear us talk a little bit later about worrying about our wind when we say we gotta watch where our wind is blowing. That's basically where our scent is going and making sure that deer aren't going to be where our scent is blowing to because that's a good way to scare those deer way right, away. That's that's super interesting, and that does provide an added layer of challenge. Are there certain? And this is going to be a complete wrong term. Certain, like perfumes you guys would have to wear when you go deer hunting that would sort of lessen your own smell or you know, make a deer less suspicious that humans might be, you know, in close proximity. Yeah, so kind of the exact opposite. So rather than like using some kind of well, some people do use a cover something, but yeah, you need to do a handful of different things to try to minimize your scent as much as possible or keep deer from smelling that human scent. So there's tons and tons of stuff that people do to try to eliminate their scent. So we'll we'll refer to that scent control um, so things like showering and washing yourself and washing your clothes in scent free soaps and sent free detergents, so stuff that cleans but has no additional odor. Um. We me and Dan, will you know, store all of our clothes in like air tight bins or bags, will keep them outside or in our garage or somewhere where they're not going to pick up smells. Um, we won't get changed into our hunting clothes until you know we're actually outside about to go hunting. So it's different than again, turkey hunting. You know, before we went turkey hunting, we're inside eating breakfast, wearing all of our camera and stuff. I would never do that when I'm deer hunting. I would wear totally different clothes when I'm inside the house, and then when I get outside actually like outside the truck, then I put my camouflage hunting clothes on then and then I walk out to go hunting. So very different that way. Um. There's different kind of sprays that you can use that can eliminate some scent, They destroy some scent milqueles. Um. There's a whole slew of different things out there. I don't know if we want to go into all the all the details, but lots of stuff there, um, Dan at a high level. Is there anything else you'd add on the on the scent piece, Yeah, just to put it into kind of perspective. I read an article a while ago where um, a guy mentioned that dear smell how humans see. So if I look at you, I can see that you're wearing a shirt, I can see that you have hair, and you have skin, and you have shoes on, and you have pants on. A deer can smell in the detail that we can see in, so they could smell your shirt, and smell your hair and smell your shoes. M Yeah, that's kind of how they go about their world too. Like I think our number, like as you said, like a lot of how we function daily life is based on the things we see, and that's kind of the way it is with dear. Of course site is important to them too, but they make a lot of decisions based on what they smell. They communicate a lot through smells as well. Um, we'll talk about this a little bit later, Connor, but you might remember that one day you and we were walking through the woods and I pointed out something I call a scrape and we talked about some of the things that are communicated there. Um, that's all through mostly through smells. Um. So, so scent is just a huge deal in the white tailed deer world, any kind of dear world. Um. And so that's just something that as a beginner hunter definitely be thinking about that and what We'll get a little bit more into this as far as how that impacts how you hunt. But important to note deer have incredible noses. They also have great eyes. They've got really terrific eyesight. Um. They have much better low light sight than we humans do, so they can see really well after dark, especially it kind of the edges of dark, so early in the morning, um, just at first light or late in the evening, just before it gets dark, and that is like their prime time to see. So that is something we always be considered about when we're out in the woods trying to hunt them. So just like turkeys, you have to be really slow when you move, and you're try not to move as much as possible, um, because they've got a great eye for catching movement and if they see movement, or if they see human or they see something that doesn't seem quite right, lots of times, that's gonna be enough to get them to run away. Um. They've got different color vision. They don't see as many colors as we do. That's why people wear bright orange when they hunt sometimes because that's something that humans see very well, but deer don't see it. Um. So that's a great way to make sure that you know we as hunters during firearm seasons see other hunters out there and don't accidentally shoot towards their direction or anything like that. Um. But yeah, site have to be very aware of And then finally, sound. They have tremendous ears. They can hear from a very far distance. They have the ability to kind of pinpoint locations of sounds even better than we do as humans. So lots of times you'll see something where maybe you'll make a noise to try to simulate another deer, and if a deer hears that, they can sometimes get right to the bottom of like your tree, like right where you are. They'll be all pinpoint you from a hundred yards away and be right next to you, just based off you know, one or two little sounds you might have made. Um. But that also means as a hunter, they can also pinpoint a sound that you make and have that scare them. So if you make you know, if you talk, or if you cough, or if you you know, drop your gun or your bone arrow or something like that, that's going to spell disaster. Um. So I remember as a kid when I was starting hunting, it was just the bare bones basics that I knew that were most important. Was don't move or at least don't move fast. Um. And then don't make loud noises like so, constantly whispering, constantly, very very slow subtle movements, constantly trying to be hidden. Um. Those are those very bare bone basics things of if you're out there in the woods hunting deer, you need to be thinking about that, and then layer over the fact that wind incent matters a lot. And those are the main things you gotta be thinking about when you're out there as far as how do you operates this defense kind of system to to stay alive. Um, it sounds like a deer has some of the best sensory perception of any animal out there. Basically they're right up there. Yeah, I mean they're right up there with any other ungulate like a four legged mammal, hooked mammal like elk, deer, moose. All these critters have got just tremendous senses. And I mean they're right. They've been hunted for thousands and millions of years by whether it's humans or wolves or whatever other predator might be out there, so they've developed a lot of these things too to try to stay alive. Um. Anything from a sense standpoint or high level biology standpoint we should touch on Dan And I think I'm going to call this a defense mechanism because they they have the most outstanding patients of any animal that I've seen in the woods. They they will sit there and they will watch whatever they don't like or look or smell until they can have enough I guess they can make their decision, you know, yes it's safe or no it's not safe. And if that takes him an hour, they will stand still in one spot for one hour until they are able to, you know, say it. You know, going down this trail is safe or I need to turn around and go back the other way. The patients that these animals have has kept them alive, like, like we said, for thousands of years. M One of the one of the things that I've always been curious on referring to the biology are the antlers. And and Mark, this goes back to you finding I think I think it was Holy Fields antlers in February. Are there certain indicators from Dear's antlers of their overall health or stature, et cetera. Man, it's good questions. This is that's not that's like that's an in depth question. Man, that's good stuff. Connor, you've been doing your homework to bring the heat this early on. But I've always been curious. So so I'll give you antler one oh one here and to answer your question at a really high level. Yes, definitely. UM, So dear, you know they grow you might you might not know this, Dear, regrow the antlers every year, so they drop them in the winter and they start growing them again in the spring, and so their brand new antlers every year. That they grow just in a handful of months, which is pretty incredible. Um. One of the fastest growing tissues I think out there, um, either faster than or very close to as fast as cancer cells grow. So it's pretty remarkable that they that they grow this new appendage of sorts just in one season. UM. But yeah, So antler growth depends on a couple of different things. There is a genetic component, um, but a lot of how big antlers get or how fully um they reached. The antler growing potential does have to do with how healthy that deer is, um. The nutrition available sometimes the climate, you know, so if there's a drought or if there's good water that year. A bunch of different habitat. Things like that can impact how much antler growth the deer will get in a given year. And actually some studies have shown recently that then how large deer's antlers are ends up being sometimes a selective characteristic when it comes to females breeding. So they will select for bigger antler deer, bigger antler bucks, because that's a sign that this is a healthier, more superior buck for her to propagate her genetics. So a lot of interesting stuff with antlers. UM. And then of course there they're very unique. I think antlers you're when you hear a lot of hunters talk, We talk a lot about, you know, the rack on her deer, and I think a lot of times it's because it oftentimes the most unique feature of a buck. Um. It's that kind of un It's like with a person, that's our face, right, I see your face, I see Dan's face, I see Whoever's face, and that's kind of how we identify that person. Um. Lots of times dear's faces more often have somewhat similar look to him. But the antlers are always very unique. They're obviously unique. UM. And that's kind of like at least two humans loss of times. That's kind of that major identifier and makes to be some some interesting things too. So yeah, with holy Field, I picked up his antler finally this year, and um, he's a he's a relatively healthy, relatively old buck. That makes him an interesting one to uh to chase after. Um so yeah, did I miss anything of their dan? I don't think so. What I will say is, as we get further into this podcast and and talking about the beginning hunter, right someone who has never hunted before, Yes, that's a Those are nice fun facts, but I don't think antlers should determine what a beginning hunter should go after right away. So it's it's great to know these, you know, these fun facts and stuff, but I would recommend that antlers should not be a determining factor in what you're going for as a new hunters. To agree, I think that expectation, that goals and expectations again are are so important I think for beginners. And yeah, any deer is a huge accomplishment. I think, you know, especially when you're right out the gate, just trying to have some success, trying to get some meat in the freezer. Um, any deer that you can get a shot at is a great opportunity, and you know, a great place to start. And some people never care about different things. Some people eventually, once they hunt a lot, then they decide, Okay, now I want to target just bucks, or I want to target older deer, or I want to target this dear. Different ways to to change that experience, to lengthen that experience. Um. But yeah, from a beginner, that's such a great point because a lot of the media out there, a lot of hunting media does talk a ton about antlers, about big box and things like that, which, as you said, Dan, they're fun, it's interesting, really cool. But as a new hunter, please don't get too caught up in that. UM, just get some experience, enjoy this experience. UM, get some meat in the freezer. So, yeah, antlers are interesting, but that's not not what it's all about. UM, got it. So we talked about some high level senses. We talked about antlers a few things. When it comes to dear behavior or things that matter to dear that I think are important. There's really four things that deer's life revolves around at a high high level. They care about food, they care about water, they care about breeding opportunities at one time of year, and then they care about security staying alive. So as a hunter, we need to be understanding those things too. So we want to understand what deer eat. We want to understand where water is a deer might go to. We want to understand what dear do when they're breeding because that impacts we hunt them. And then we want to also understand how are they trying to stay safe so that we can take advantage of its hunters. Um So a couple of things on food. Deer food is going to be different based on where you're hunting. So if you're hunting deer in Texas versus Michigan versus New Hampshire, they're gonna have different types of food sources that they like the most. Um. So it's probably not worth us trying to go through and list every single different thing that deer will eat. But I would just say for any new hunter out there, I would try to talk to someone local to where you hunt and to where you're gonna be and try to understand what are the preferred food sources here for deer. So in Michigan where you and we were hunting turkeys, um, you know, there's lots of agricultural you know, farm ground where we are at, and so deer are gonna eat a lot of those crops. Are gonna eat that corn, They're gonna eat the soybeans, They're gonna eat the alfalfa or the winter wheat. UM, they're gonna eat acorns that fall from oak trees. They're gonna eat all sorts of different bushes and forbes and different things in the forest. So so that's just something that I would talk to someone local and figure out what are they eating around here, and that's going to help you figure things out in the future. UM. Water is kind of a given ponds, streams, lakes, little water holes, that kind of stuff matters to deer security. I was just gonna ask what are UM what are some of the ideal regions for both you know, climate and food supply UM in the US for for deer HM. So their present almost in every state in the lower forty eight UM they're they're widely spread. But as far as the very best deer habitat in the country, I think most people would agree that it's in like the Midwest, so kind of around you know, Iowa, Illinois, Kansas, Ohio, Indiana, southern Michigan kind of like that corn belt of the country just because it has you know, great habitat, tons and tons of food, um, a lot of different things like that that just allow for kind of an optimal situation for deer um in climate to the winners aren't too hard there, but there are seasons. It's just kind of a good level playing field that deer seem to do very well. And um, would you agree with that in absolutely? And like we keep getting back to, is I mean they'll eat bark off trees, they'll eat cactuses, they'll eat um, whatever they have to eat to survive, and they do a good job of surviving there. They're very adaptable, very deptable. I mean there's there'll be deer in neighborhoods, you know, feeding on your landscaping in some places, so they can make a lot of things work. Um. But one of the very most important things to dear is is a feeling of safety. Security. So in some situations, in most situations, they're going to try to avoid human activity. So as a hunter, something you're gonna have to think about when you start hunting is trying to make sure that deer don't know that you're there, because if they do know you're there, they're gonna go to other places, or they're only going to move at night where they're going to change their behavior in some other way. That's that's not going to be good for you. So at a super high level, it's just always good to think about what are these deer doing because they want food, they want water, and they want to stay away from humans and other predators. Now, when it comes to breeding, they do some different funky things, and that happens in the fall. Usually for like us here in Michigan or Iowa, usually in late October into November is when the breeding season is happening. And then they start doing kind of like you know, when guys go to the bar, they sometimes act crazy because they're trying to impress women. That kind of thing happens with dear too. During that time period. They start acting a little bit different because they're trying to find mating opportunities. So as a hunter, that can be one of the very best times of year to be in the woods because they move a lot more, they're more they if they're gonna make a mistake, that's the one time of year they might do it. UM, so wherever you're hunting too, you'll want to find out when that you know, the specifics of that breeding season occur, and um, that's going to help you choose, you know, when to hunt sometimes as well. UM. A couple of other things on the behavior note I talked about crepuscular earlier. Dan. Basically, that just means that deer are an animal that moved the most at the edges of the day, So they move most at dawn, they move most at dusk. Those are the two peaks of deer movement during every twenty four hour period, so that hour or two around first light in the morning the hour to last light in the evening, which is why those are the two best times to hunt on a given day. UM. And it's kind of similar, you know, Connor, how when we went turkey hunting, we turkey hunted in the early morning and then you know, we're turkey hunting in the evening as well, but we hunted even sometimes during the middle of the day. There's not as much middle of the day movement usually for deer as there is with turkeys. UM. Another thing to know about deer is that they followed generally consistent patterns They've got basic kind of schedule, kind of like we do. You know, most of us, we wake up, we have some breakfast, we go to work, we come back, we dinner, fiddle around, go to bed. Deer kind of do the same thing. But their general pattern for most of the year is that you know, in the early morning they're out feeding, they come back to a betting area, like a general region where they typically lay down for most of the day in some kind of thick cover, so thick brush or trees or somewhere they feel safe. They spend most of the daylight hours betted down in a safe zone, and then in the evening they get back up again and they go start feeding, and then overnight then they kind of rotate between feeding and betting and doing different things like that. But generally there's that betting to feeding, feeding to betting pattern. Um So, if you as a hunter learn where deer feed and then you learn where they bed, you can start to know where you need to be as a hunter. Um So, I don't know dan at the highest of levels here. If we're talking about the important behavior to know about deer, those are a couple of things I thought would be important to know and then again, you know, I think I touched enough during the breeding season, which people refer to as the rut. They changed some of that behavior, but anything else from just at what dear do that we need to cover before talking about you know, Okay, now how do we hunt them? No? My question is to Connor, I mean, you just got a earful in a very short period of time. Are there any questions that you have right now that we can maybe go into a little bit more detail in of what Mark maybe just covered. Yeah, so I was curious on as a beginning hunter and who's someone who is unfamiliar with some of the indicators you guys are pointing out how often? I mean, I'm sure the answer is as much as you possibly can. But you know, during the off season, how much would you recommend, you know, sort of an unseasoned hunter to go out and sort of familiarize themselves with these indicators so they can get a better sense for, you know, some of the breeding behaviors and maybe some of the security behaviors before the actual season in the pursuit starts what you said, Dan, Well, here's what I'm gonna tell you. For someone who's brand new and you want to. And like Mark said, they have a majority of the day they're lying down in the woods right there, betting, and then towards the end of the day it starts to get dark, they're gonna stand up out of there, they're gonna walk down some trail and they're going to go to a food source or a water source or maybe both. So what I would recommend doing for someone who's brand new is to get in the woods and try to identify some of those places just and it doesn't even have to be extremely detailed. Just maybe look for an older rub or look for walk through the woods, and if you kick up a deer, you just you know, put a mental note there say okay, well I saw a deer here, and then when it's time to hunt that following you know, that fall, then you have a good idea of actually where to start. Yeah, yeah, I think And to your point, Connor, as much as possible, it definitely is the answer because of the more time you spend out here in these habitats where deer are, the more you're gonna be able to learn this stuff and what we call this and like the hunting world, we call it scouting. So when you go on the property where you can hunt and scout, you can learn a lot of stuff that will help you when hunting season actually opens up. So most deer hunting seasons open up in the fall, so either in September or October, and they usually run into the early winter. Most places closed at the end of December or somewhere in January, give or take um. So in the spring and summer, if you can get out and walk around the areas you're gonna hunt. And like Dan said, if you see some deer that go running away during the middle of the day, then you just learned where they were bedded. So that's a great thing. If you have a map with you, circle that on your map and say, hey, there were dear bedded here. Or if you're out there in the evening and you're walking by a field and you see a bunch of deer standing in the middle of that field and they're feeding on something. All of a sudden, now you've located a feeding a food source. You've located somewhere where they're going in the evening's defeat. So that's a huge important thing to know. So circle that on your map and do that as often as you can you'll start to have this map that shows the betting areas, the feeding areas, and then maybe you'll see some trails. Basically, it'll look like like a hiking trail kind of in the woods where deer walk up and down this thing so many times going from a bed to a food source. You can start to see how they travel through the landscape. And so once you identify those three features, it'll start to it'll start to be almost like a diagram that you can look at and say, Okay, here's where they're coming from, here's where they're going to, here's the travel path they're taking in between. Now, all of a sudden, if you start knowing when they're doing each so we know that deer going to be feeding around those two points of the day early morning, late evening, and we know that during the middle of the day they're gonna be in those betting areas. You can start to say, Okay, if I'm trying to hunt a deer in the morning, I know he's gonna be feeding in this field, probably because I saw them out there doing this, and I know they're gonna be going back to that chunk of woods because I know I scared some deer out of there before than in the day. Now, you know, okay, in the morning, they're in area A, they're heading to Area B. I'm gonna be sitting in between the two. So that's like a at a very high level, that's how we start kind of formulating how to hunt these deer. Because different than turkeys, a lot of deer hunting is kind of ambush related. So with turkey hunting, right, we walked out there in the morning and we listened for them, we heard them gobbling. We walked over to where they're kind of near where they're gobbling. Then we sat down and we called them. We brought them to us. In most deer hunting situations, that's usually not how it goes. Usually you try to understand what you think the deer is gonna do, and then you set up and sit and wait for him to do that. So you kind of set up this ambush because you think he's going to come through this area where you think he's gonna be coming to this place, and then you set up there hiding in a tree or in a little you know, behind some bushes, or you build what we call it blind something to sit in and hide yourself and you sit and you wait, and then hopefully you predicted the right thing, and then that deer will come walking by and you're able to get a shot. So there's a lot of um before the hunt work that's needed to put yourself in a good position to have a shot. UM. So it comes to scouting. I guess we talked a lot about, you know, just walking around and trying to mark these places on your map. So look for those food sources. You know, maybe you'll actually see a deer and you'll know, Okay, he was out there, he was his head was on the ground, he was feeding on stuff. Okay, he's this is a food source. Again, I would try to if you're new, if you find some in the area who hunts there, try to ask, like I said, ask what kind of stuff they feed on. And maybe this person is going to say, well, they eat acorns, and they eat apples, and they eat this one tree leaf, and they eat corn and beans and anything else in the farm fields. So now when you're out there scouting at some other point of the year, you can walk around the woods and if you see some acorns in the ground, or if you see an old corn field, now you know, Okay, yeah, these are probably places that deer feeding. So you're just kind of building this map for yourself of of these three kind of areas. And I think that's that's like a great beginning point to set yourself up to actually go into the hunting season knowing a few of these basic things. Um, I'm trying to think what kind of like it's almost like a board game and that you're trying to identify these different like key locations and then how will you get from point to point? But I just don't know what board game to to say it is. Um, have you have you guys noticed that maybe you know your strategies have changed season after season because obviously, as we talked about, deer or very perceptive animals, and perhaps they'll change their ways to fulfill that security point that you were talking about. So if you notice that you know your own strategies is deer owners has to change season after season. Man, there's a good questions aren't they do it? Definitely? Definitely because because of that security need, their deer are constantly changing what they do based on human activity. So if a deer was you know, if the deer like to feed in the food source A, and they like to bed in bedding area B. And that's what they're doing consistently every day. Maybe. But if then I start going into the area and walking around and scaring those deer everywhere every day, or accidentally, you know, my wind blowing to them and then finding out that I was there, then they will change their behavior totally. And so then use a hunter need to adjust to so season after season that happens sometimes, or that happens within a season, so you're always trying to minimize them hearing you or seeing you or smelling you, so they don't change that behavior. But they're really smart, they're survivors, so inevitably oftentimes they do UM, so you need to be aware of that and then try to adjust to that. So this this kind of scouting, observing and then adjusting is like a never ending thing. You're constantly trying to learn what they're doing and then readjust how you set up to try to to try to ambush them again. UM agreed. Man, you mentioned you mentioned something about board game, right, I almost want to say it's like shoots and ladders, right, You work your way up and then all of a sudden you'll hit a slide and have to go way back to the beginning. It's kind of kind of like deer hunting. You'll you'll walk into the woods. You'll set up in a tree based off of whatever sign you've found or you know whatever. Let's say you you didn't even scout the woods. You walk into a place, you think it's good. You set up there, and let's say you see a deer right and let's say the deer comes by, hits a certain point and runs away. Well, that means this deer probably smelled you. All right, Well now you have to say, okay, well what made this deer run away? Oh, it's because my wind was blowing right at him. Well, next time I have to be if the wind is the same, I have to be on the opposite side of that trail, so my scent won't go to where that deer was. So then you make that move right and then you realize that, well it's the same wind, but a different deer came from a different direction and busted me, or it you know, nothing happened, or the deer came by me and I was able to get a shot at him. You just keep playing this game where you you make these small moves or sometimes they're big moves or whatever moves to put yourself in a position to where you're within range of what every weapon UH to UH to the deer year after. I guess, yeah, it's a it's a lot of observation, trial and error. I think as a as a deer hunter getting started, a lot of you know, you can go and you can do a lot of preparation ahead of time by scouting these things out, finding these couple of things we've talked about. But then once you do start hunting, then it's a lot of what Dan just said, observing what happens and then changing your your hunt location, your ambush location for the next time to try to be a little bit closer or to to take what you learned and adjust your approach based on that. So there's gonna be a lot of trials, a lot of errors, a lot of you know, moving a little bit more, figuring things out, fine tuning where you're sitting. But it's it's very much you know, as we talked about, it's it's this ambush style, so you kind of have to watch what happens on today and then tomorrow or next weekend or the next time you can go and then you're able to try the new approach, the new location. UM. But it's it's very iterative. I think is is kind of what it what it comes down to. So as far as that scouting, right, we talked about finding where they're feeding. We talked about finding where they're betting, and again, you know betting areas what we're kind of referring to his betting years. One way to find them, like Dan said, is to just walk around during the day and see where deer go running out of. Um. That's something you want to do, you know, not during hunting season. Hopefully, hopefully this is way ahead of time. UM. But usually this is going to be like an area that's really thick, you know, lots of bush, lots of brush, lots of just where deer you know, couldn't be seen easily at at the very generical level, that's kind of stuff typically they look for when they're finding where they want to bed. UM. And then another thing to look for when you're scouting is sign. And by sign, we talked about trails. You want to look for those actual trails through the woods that look like hiking trails sort of that these deer go up and down. You can see like actual deer tracks, you know, in the mud, maybe on a trail or in a field or wherever, and that just kind of indicates that there's a lot of deer activity there. It's a good thing to see. UM. And then Dan also mentioned rubs. He mentioned that word rubs, And then earlier we talked about scrapes. I kind of explained that to you when we were out in the woods that one day. UM. But for anyone new who who is not familiar with the rubs and scrapes, I will give you just the the very thirty tho ft overview of what these two things are, because you'll see these things in the woods and you want to take note of them. So basically, a rub is a tree. You're gonna see on a tree where it looks like someone took um like claws or something and just ripped up the side of a tree. And so there's gonna be like strings of bark and tree stuff hanging off the side of a tree at about maybe you know, anywhere from the knee to waste height. Maybe that's a rub. And that basically is created by deer rubbing his antlers up against that tree. There's a whole bunch of stuff we go into that kind of seasoned deer hunters think about when it comes to what rubs mean. But I will say it for just the beginner, I would just look at that rub as an indication that that a buck, that a deer has been through here, and it means that this is just an area that a buck travels through. That's another good piece of sign to just take into the equation and help you say, Okay, yep, there is a there is a buck moving through this area. It's another good thing to know. Um. Is it a form of communication with the other deer or is it sort of satisfying some sort of lack of a better term, like an itch or is it just kind of unknown? So there's two things that most people believe they're doing. Number One, UM, I think I mentioned this before, but in the summer, when deer are growing their antlers, they have this fuzzy stuff on the outside of the antlers that we call velvet. So that comes off usually early September for most deer. So that first week in September give or take a little bit, they are rubbing trees to get that velvet and the extra velvet off of their antlers. So they do some of that at that time period, but most of the rubbing behavior happens during and leading up to that mating season. And so some some people think it's like a little bit of a communication mechanism because when they're rubbing that tree, there's these glands that the deer have on their forehead and different parts of their face that release um, oh, what's the word I'm looking here for? Um? Oh, gosh, We're just gonna say chemicals because I can't think of what the world on the tip of my tongue is. But they leave these these chemical uh communicators on the tree that came off of those glands off their forehead. Um. And then it also some believe it's kind of like a stress reliever too, because there's all this pent up energy. Again, if we use like the bar metaphor, you've got this male who is trying to find a mate and he's frustrated because it's not working out, maybe or because he wants to fight another guy or something like that. So this is like a way to get that pent up sexual frustration out. They'll rip up a tree or rip up a bush and Um, that's another thing that's going on with this these this rubbing behavior they build up. They also use it to build up their neck muscles for fighting. So the pump and iron yeah, um. So then the scrapes are the other major piece of sign that we see out there that the deer use and make. And this was that area that we saw when we were walking around Connor where it looked like something that's scraped up the ground and opened up this kind of oval of dirt in the middle of the woods. So basically, if you're walking through the woods and you see this what looks like just where all the leaves and grass and stuff had been kicked out of the way, and you just kind of see a dirt patch, that is a scrape. And for the I think all we need to understand about scrapes is that this is a major communication hub for deer. Deer that comes through an area, sometimes a buck will make a scrape where he will kick away all the grass, kick away the leaves with us with his feet. He'll make this section and then he will only make a scrape where there's a branch overhanging this area. We call it a licking branch. So he's got this overhanging branch, it's about head level. He walks up to this thing, he smells the branch, he maybe licks the branch, he rubs his forehead and his nose and his antlers on the branch. He's again getting some of those chemical signals from those glands rubbed up on that branch, so he's leaving some messages there saying hey, I was here or whatever. He's trying to whatever those chemicals indicate, and then he scrapes up the ground with his feet. He then, typically a male deer will piss on the back of his legs on another set of glands there that again leave more signals, which then again communicate other messages to other deer. So any buck that comes by near that scrape oftentimes will visit it and smell it to see who's been there, what's happening, and then leave his scent to and then female deer will do the same thing, and that they'll come and smell it and they get this information. So it's kind of like like back in the day when there's like the water cooler at the office and everyone kind of come to the water cooler and that's where they kind of chit chat and there'd be like a bolting board and you'd read all everyone, you know, whatever notes people left there. That's kind of how scrapes sort of work, um in some cases in the in the dear world. So as a hunter, when you see a scrape, you're gonna usually say, okay, that means deer are gonna frequent this at some part of the year, and usually this is happening during the fall again around mating season. Um. The one thing that's worth noting, and we talked about this this spring too, is that scrapes that you find along a field edge or like way out in the open are usually only visited by bucks after dark can because these deer want to feel secure, So lots of times they're not going to travel in the open during daylight. They'd rather like to be back in the woods where humans or other practors won't see them. Um, now does you know or young bucks they might move more during the daylight. But just worth noting that scrapes on the open are more of a nighttime thing. Scrapes that you see, like way back in the woods that are kind of secluded, those might be mused more during daylight because deer feel more secure. So you've got all the scouting until you look for tracks and trails and scrapes and rubs and food sources and betting years. All this kind of helps you like build that map of where deer are on a property or on an on an area that you're hunting. Um. And that kind of sets you up now to then actually, you know, try to try to hunt dan what am I missing as far as like that pre hunt scouting or preparation piece um that we need to touch on. You know, for a beginner, uh, I feel that rubs and scrapes are a good thing to take note of, but not an ultimate indicator on on where you should be hunting right away. UM. I think for a new hunter, if you find a some tracks and let's say there's just more and more tracks in one area, and let's say they're all leading to a trail on a field edge, just that's a good place to start. It's just the where where there's the most concentration of tracks and maybe a well used trail. I think ultimately that'ship that that would be the perfect spot to start. H And then it's that observation you find these places you observe, and then you say, okay, this, this looks like a good place to start based on these different things I saw. But now I'm seeing that most of the deer are actually a hundred yards over there, or most of the deer are coming out or coming in this region, and then that's when you adjust. Um. But that's I feel like I'm hoping that we're covering like that, just the basic building blocks of how to figure out where these deer might be and how to start thinking about it. Um. Next, I want to talk about actually going on hunting, but before that, connor anything on the basics of just this high level learning scouting in area. I mean no that that was a super helpful synopsis, and that's one of the things I had always been curious about and obviously just kind of speaks to my general Naiva theater on hunting. But I had no idea that there was you know, that much strategy and calculation and in preseason planning involved. And I can only imagine the amount of times have been hiking through a forest and stumbled across those types of signs, but just obviously had no idea what they were. UM, but no super helpful and That's one of the coolest things I think about hunting is that you know, when you're out there hiking or walking around the woods or some area, you're you're seeing stuff, right, You're seeing beautiful animals maybe, and you're seeing flowers and trees, and you're you're seeing something, you're enjoying the landscape, but there's a there's a depth of there's a depth out there that you're missing that as a hunter, when you walk through that same woods, you'll notice all these different things. You'll notice all the things we just mentioned, plus a whole slew of other different little features or little signs that point to how wildlife might be using this or what this habitat might mean for other animals. Um or oh hey, look at that. This is a great place that deer probably walk through or you might, I don't know. Just kind of opens a whole new wealth of experience when you're going through these places, when you have this different depth of experience, that that just makes it really cool. Um So, I think, Okay, we've we've understood how dear kind of behave. We've kind of covered how to learn in an area. We didn't really talk about finding like a place to hunt. Like, there's two options as far as like places to hunt. You can either go to public land, so land that's open to anyone and anyone can go out there and do this stuff. Or you can try to get access on land that's privately owned UM or you know, you could own land yourself, maybe already but you know kind of when we're turkey hunting, that was private land that you know that our friend Matt owned, so we got permission to hunt that. If you know a friend or have some different people that hunt, or some people that own land, it's great to try to get permission on private land. That's a great opportunity to get in there and not have as much competition you know, different other people out there bothering you. But if you don't have land to hunt, there are lots of public land opportunities out there where you know, you can go out there for free and have access. UM. We could talk a full podcast about finding places to hunt, so I don't want to dive too deep into that UM, but there's lots of information on the Internet or on the Wyreton podcast or anywhere else as far as finding places to hunt. UM, actually getting like a specific property to hunt or finding a piece of public land where you can go. I think that's just worth worth noting. Con go ahead. I was just gonna ask with you living in Los Angeles, I take it that you know there might be some there. There may or may not be white tailed deer close to where you're at, but I have a feeling you're going to personally have to travel somewhere to hunt. Is that correct? Correct? And I actually think northern California has um some decent public lands, but I think it's again, I think it's mainly blacktail. I think that's correct. Yea, so, and that shouldn't note that most of what we're talking about here is more specific to whitetailed deer, which is the deer species that's that's widely spread over most of the country. And then you've got sections of the country where there's mule deer more in some of the mountain ranges um and some of the rocky mountain west into Pacific northwest, and then far far west on the west coast. Then you've got what you mentioned, the blacktail deer um, which are which are very very similar meal deres sometimes kind of the same thing. I think people have said so when you come and visit us in the Midwest again, I think when you travel to hunt some of these white tails, hopefully with with me or someone here soon, Um, this is the kind of stuff that we'll be doing and we'll be looking at. Now, where are you going to go in a direction with that? Dan? No, I was just kind of curious because you know, obviously he's not going to have the ability to sit, you know, go spend large amounts of time scouting, you know, from his from where he sets. I'm assuming that he's going to show up for a hunting season, and if you were doing this all by yourself, you're going to be the person who has to scout and hunt all at the same time, which can you know, it can be a little bit more difficult, but if you follow the same principles, you know, it's all this all the same, but it's always it's always better in your scenario to have you know, someone like Mark to help show you the ropes. Yeah. Absolutely, And I'm always looking for any used to to get back to my homeland in the Midwest, So this sounds like it it is one of the better excuses to come. Now, were you going to ask another question? Before before Dan's there, Well, just I was curious on the on the public land and private land management in terms of deer population. UM, what are some of the I guess, regulations around private landowners and the things that they have to do to ensure you know, healthy deer populations. So it's all voluntary. Private landowners can can manage or not manage their property or their their wildlife, you know, however they want. Now it's important note that wildlife, so dear turkeys, etcetera, are technically technically property of the state um and are managed by the state. And then so even if you own land, So even if I own a farm or something and there's deer and turkeys on my farm, those animals don't actually belong to me. They're they're managed and they're managed by the state in the trust of the public. So technically a deer that's on my property doesn't belong to me, it doesn't belong to you. It's it's roaming freely between those properties. But as a landowner, I do own that land and that habitat and I can choose how to manage that stuff. So as a private landowner, I can manipulate the habitat I can do things that will make it better for deer. UM or people that don't care about wildlife, they can do whatever they want and they do nothing with it, or some people want to build stuff on or some people want to farm it, whatever it might be. UM there's a ton of information and a whole subculture of deer hunting around managing your area, like your private property specifically for wildlife and deer, all sorts of ways you can do that. It's probably it's it's definitely two in depth to go into for for this UM. But if you want, you know, if someday kind of you got to the point five years from now and you fell in love with deer ounting and you bought a twenty acre property outside Chicago and you said this is gonna be my deer hunting property, I would tell you to go visit the website or become a member of an organization called the Quality Deer Management Association. Just a terrific resource for everything related to how you can manage an area or property for deer and UM help improve the health of the deer and your property, help manage all sorts of different things for that optimal situation. UM. So that's where I point you or other people for that kind of stuff. Got it. So now we're hunting. We've learned a lot about the property. We've learned a little bit about the basics of deer. Um. I want to again, we're kind of running that time. This is one of those topics that probably we could spend like five hours talking about, but to try to cover the bare bones basics here in an hour and a half, we're gonna jump to actually going out there and hunting. So let's say you've got this property that you're allowed to hunt, Connor, You've studied it a little bit, You've learned where some of these different things are. Um, now it's the day you're gonna go out hunting. I want to mention a few things that you should be thinking about on this day when you're gonna go hunt. Hopefully before this day of the hunt, you've already done that scouting and you've picked a few places that you think there should be deer. Like Dan said, you found this trail or you saw these tracks. So you found these rubs and scrapes and tracks all together, and they seem like good places. So in a perfect world, you would set up a location beforehand. A set up that ambush location beforehand, so you would either put a blind out there or a tree stand at that spot, so that on the day of the hunt you could just go and sit and be ready to go. Now, for someone brand new, basically, a tree stand is like something that hanging up in a tree where you can sit in and be hidden from the deer and you kind of have this high perch where you can watch and shoot from. Or a blind is basically some kind of little shelter you create on the ground that again hides you. There's a whole bunch of different options here. You can have like fabric pop up blinds. You can build a blind just out of wood. There's tons of different types of tree stands, different ways to get up in a tree. But that's more detail than we can get into um. But for the new hunter in a perfect world, learn a little bit about blinds or tree stands and set up some locations so that on the day of the hunt you can walk right out to your stand and be sitting and hunting. So this is a different counter than when we turkey hunted. When we turkey on, we just walked out there, picked a tree and sat on the ground and just called the birds. And you can do that, especially if you're hunting with a gun. Um. I know, like when I grew up deer hunting, lots of times when we hunted with the guns with firearms, we would go out and sit on a stump or sit next to a tree that looked like a good spot with a good view, and and can you know, get a shot at a deer like that, especially when you get a gun that can fire out during a hundred yards or two hundred yards away. Um. But in a perfect world, you'd have something already set up. And if you're hunting with arch equipment like a crossbow or a regular compoundbo, when a deer is that close close enough to get a shot with one of those weapons, they're gonna see you moving if you're just sitting on the ground without any kind of concealment. So that's why having something that's gonna hide you is important. But I'm gonna try a gloss over that a little bit because we have to get to, you know, some other things. So the first thing when you're choosing where are you gonna hunt on this given day is what we talked about earlier. It's the wind. So we always needed to be thinking about where is my wind blowing. So let's say today we have a west wind. If you're deciding where you want hunt on that given day, just always think about how that wind will impact things. So if you picked out let's say you picked out two locations on your property that look good based on that side that we talked about already, now think about what the wind will do. So we'll say location A. You want to hunt with this wind that's blowing from the west, it's blowing from the west going to the east. If that wind that's blowing now to the east is blowing right towards what you identified already as a betting area where deer are gonna be, that's probably not a good thing because those deer that are in that betting area during the day will smell you when you walk there for your afternoon hunt. So just think about how is the wind going to impact things. Or if you're gonna be walking to your spot and that west wind is gonna blow towards that corn field that you found, and at this time of day that you're walking in there, you think that deer will be feeding. So in the morning when deer feeding. If you know that wind is gonna be blowing into that corn field, well, all of a sudden you realize, Oops, that's where the deer are and they're gonna smell me there in a runaway. So always just be thinking about that. Um, Always be thinking then about the two things we already talked about, food and bedding. So when you're choosing where you want to hunt, you want to think about Okay, Bob, my mentor told me that at this time of year, in October, the deer are really feeding on acorns. And if you had found that at your location, b there were acorns, now you know, Okay, this is gonna be one of the This might be the better spot of the two locations I have because I know they're feeding on this food source. Um, I don't know how how do we how do we talk through this? Damn without getting too much in the weeds? Are making this confusing? Is this making sense? Um? As I'm talking, I already see like there's so many different ways you could spiral around this. Let me let me put it. Let me try to simplify it. Imagine a clock, okay, and you are the very center of the clock that is your tree stand. Okay, if the wind is coming from twelve in blowing to six, just you should think that nothing is going to come from that direction because your scent is going to ruin everything in that direction or seven or six or five. And you know, because scent kind of cones out from you know, where where you're at. So you have to once you've identified where you think the deer are coming from, um, then kind of put a clock over top of it and and put the wind coming out of let's say a nine and in going to a three. The three. You know the three is gonna be bad. So let's say you identify, um, the deer are at a nine and they're going to go to a three. Well, that means that you should probably have a wind that is going from twelve to six or from six to twelve roughly. Okay. That way, when the deer are walking by you, for the most part, they're not going to intercept you unless that trail is kind of above your location, if that makes any sense. Yeah, And are you guys using any sorts of decoys similar to the way that we I mean, we're using decoys and calls for the turkey hunt? Marb so there are certain situations when people will use Dear decoys. Um, I will say for the beginner hunter, I wouldn't worry about that because us just just like a very small portion of the hunting season with very specific conditions. Would you ever want to use a decoy? So I'd say for the average person going out there, don't worry about that yet. The best thing is just to set up the observation point. So so yeah, so you take all the stuff you've learned about the property, you have a couple of spots prepped, you think about the wind the way Dan described it, and then you're going to go out there and you're sitting that location and you're gonna observe. You're going to be as quiet as you possibly can be because we talked about how great they're hearing is. You're going to be as still as you can possibly be, because we talked about how great their eyes it is. And most hunts, you're gonna see dear, but they're gonna be too far away, or they'll move through too quickly, or something will happen where you're not able to get a shot, but you'll learn something. So I always every time you go out there, I'll try to think about what they're doing and learn and so you can say, okay, well I learned that they're actually traveling over here, or learned that they tend to come back into this piece of woods an hour after daylight. So just try to learn from that observation. UM I would say, while you're actually out there hunting, when you're in the tree, or you're in your blind, or you're sitting on that log, the way I would spend most of that time is just very very slowly quietly looking around you. You know, just very slowly turn your head looking to your left and just constantly observing the setting around you to try to make sure that you spot an animal before it spots you. So in a perfect world, you're sitting in your spot and you're very carefully observing around you. Every once in a while, maybe put your binoculars up to your eyes and look off from the distance, and then hopefully you're gonna spot a deer or a movement or a shape and you'll see, okay, oh, that's a deer, and then you'll see it's coming your way, and then you can, you know, know when it's getting close enough so that you can prepare yourself and make sure you're not not moving at all, not making any sounds or anything by the time it gets close enough. And then if this is a deer that you excuse me, this is a deer you're gonna try to get a shot at, then you can do things to prepare yourself for that shot. So you know, like in your situation turkey hunting, counter when you know when that when that turkey finally was within sight of you, guys, I know that Janice probably had instructed you to at this point be ready. You have your gun up already, and then you don't want to move at all, right, because once that deer is within or once that turkey was within sight of you, you didn't want to make any movements because they would see you. So you already had the gun up on your on your knees, and you were just waiting for him to get close enough, and then you just pulled the trigger. So it's kind of the same thing with deer hunting. Once you observe that deer, hopefully it's far enough away so you can get yourself prepared. So in this case, you're going to very slowly get your gun or very slowly get your bow and position yourself. However, you need to to be able to get that shot, ideally doing this when the deer is not looking at you, or when the deer is far enough away, and then once that deer finally does get to within range of whatever weapon is you're using, then you you go through that shot process. You pull the trigger, you shoot the bow whatever it might be. Um and are there in terms of aiming because I know, as I mentioned the beginning when I was talking about my turkey story, or is there a specific spot you want to aim for? So, I mean most of the meat is preserved. Yeah, So the vital zone on a deer is that it's lungs or it's heart or what you ideally want to hit, and so that is going to be just behind its shoulder. So the best thing to do anyone that's brand new to this just go to Google and type in you know, white tailed deer vital zone or something like that, and there's a thousand different images diagrams that show this. But if you imagine a deer standing in front of view and you imagine it's front shoulder and then draw or just take a pipe play or take a paper plate and put that just behind that front shoulder. Essentially, that is the section that you want to aim at because you'll get hopefully that bullet or that arrow will go through both lungs or the heart and it very quickly, um will kill that animal is as quickly and ethically as you possibly can. That's that's your best spot. Um. So a few things I guess at that point about handling the moment of truth. So you've got that deer coming in, you're gonna get that shot. Dan, any advice for a very new hunter about handling the actual moments just before or at the shot. No, because what's gonna happen is, I'm going to tell you something right now, and this will be the closest dear that you've ever had to yourself. Right you're you with the intentions of killing it, and everything for the first time, everything that we've told you today will go out the window, and you'll get this gigantic adrenaline rush and you'll go into autopilot with whatever you've learned up to that point on shooting an animal, and it will be the greatest moment of your life, one of the greatest moments of your life. And so for me to sit here and tell a new hunter on how to act during the moment of truth is I mean, I'm not gonna say it's gonna be It would be wasted breath. But you're not gonna You're not gonna think of what Dan Johnson told me when when you're getting ready to pull back the boat. You know what I mean. I will offer you one one piece of vice, though, Connor, and that is that, for whatever reason, when you are taking a shot an animal like a deer, for most people, it's a lot different than when you take a shot at something like a turkey. Um. I don't know if it's because of the size of the animal or just the the charismatic nature of a big mammal like that, but something about it. And also because the amount of work typically that goes into a deer hunt versus a turkey hunt. Like it was a little bit easier to go out there on your first day like we did, and this turkey ran in and you just got that shot like it was. There wasn't a whole bunch of backstory and time and work that went into that. But on a deer hunt there'll be lots and lots of work typically that goes into it um and now all that's built up to this moment. Now this big, beautiful mammal is walking towards you, and now you need to place that bullet or arrow in this one specific spot. So there's it's it's a high pressure moment. So Dan said, lots of times that first time you might almost blackout, or you might just like your autopilot takes over lots of times. So the best way to make sure that this goes well and not badly is that you practice a lot beforehand. Ye, So don't do what you did with the turkey hunt on your deer hunt, because it's a lot easier to mess things up on a deer. So that turkey, like the shot it's as it was a shotgun you're using, So it shouted a bunch of different babies in a wide area. So even if you shot a little bit to the left or a little bit up or a little bit downward to the right, all those babies spread out and you were still able to hit that turkey right. You mentioned that somewhere in the breast, so some of those hit low, but still that was a dead turkey. It was great in the situation of a deer. It's just a single projectile, so it's one single piece of lead or one single arrow, so that has to go to the to the right spot, perfectly right spot. So you just want to have practiced shooting a lot and done a lot to prepare for that moment so that when autopilot does kick in, when the nerves kick in. Um, there's something people referred to as buck fever. So it's kind of just this the swelling up of emotion and excitement and nervousness and everything just before the shot. Some people like freak out, start shaking, some people start hyper ventling, some people there's all sorts of different things that kind of happened to the body when this like high pressure moment happens. Um, the more you've practiced actually executing a good shot, the more likely you are to be able to handle that moment. Um. So my my highest level piece of advice would just be to take that seriously. Any new hunter, like, practice as much as you can. I had time to make sure that when you do finally get that shot, you can take advantage of it and things go things go well. You don't want to miss, you don't want to injure a deer and then have it, you know, be wounded and you're not able to recover it. Um, our goal is always to get a quick, clean, ethical kill that allows you to recover that that deer as quickly as possible, get a bunch of meat, and um, you know, be able to continue on as a as a successful hunter. So there's lots and lots more about how to properly shoot under pressure, how to learn how to shoot a bow, how to learn how to shoot a gun. That stuff is above kind of what we're trying to achieve here too. So there's obviously tons of homework that any new hunter would have to do after this kind of beginning guide, um about learning how to how to shoot a bow or a gun or whatever it might be. So again, lots of resources on YouTube or on this podcast or if you google it, there's lots of stuff out there. But but take that moment seriously, I guess, I would say would be the most important thing. Be prepared because it is a high intense moment. Um. No, that's helpful, and it's funny too, because I had no sort of idea how intense the shot part of the Turkey hunt to be until they were coming down that alleyway and my heart was beating and I was like, all right, collect yourself. This is the actual moment. So I'm sure it's taken up to a whole another level. Um, you know when it comes to box. Yeah. Yeah, So see, it's a multiply that Turkey moment times like a hundred, and then that will be what your first first deer might be, like, Um, is there anything and we're running that time? Is there anything else on the actual in the tree or in the woods hunt Dan that we absolutely should touch on here or should we jump to a couple of quick things on what happens afterwards? Just stay off your phone. Yeah, I've had some mistakes where I missed out on opportunities because of that, So yeah, stay focused. Definitely good when you're out there hunting. Try to avoid distraction. Um. That will always be the best things about hunting though, is like when you're out there at least the two days I was out there in Michigan and I turned my phone off, you know, like this is the best excuse to not have it on. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great way to do it because you can if you allow yourself to if you turn off those distractions and allow yourself just to take in everything around you. Um. That really is what's so special about hunting is you you get to put yourself out in these wild places, surrounded by wildlife, and you can observe and see all these different things and notice all these different things, and um, it's it's the complete opposite of most of our daily lives working in the office or the factory or whatever and surrounded by people and loud noises and all this stuff. Um. It goes back to we talked about in the very beginning, Connor, which is just enjoying that experience out there, um, soaking it all in. So that's that's so important to do. And also from a pragmatic standpoint, getting the strategic can can ruin your chances sometimes of getting a deer, like it did to me this past fall. So don't do that. Um. Yeah, it was Holy Field. That's probably still a sore subject then it is. It is. That's why Dan chuckled when he mentioned it, because he he knew that was a dagger to the gut for me. Um. Now, when it comes to let's say, let's say you did all these things right, you actually had a deer come in, you got a shot. This deer ran off fifty yards and dropped over and it died quickly. And it's a perfect situation. Again, this is probably something you need to go watch a video on to see how to handle um processing that deer in the field. But at a high level, what you want to know is that you want to gut that deer as soon as possible, especially if it's warm out um, because you want to be able to preserve the meat as best as possible. So if you saw that deer run and die, go over that thing and then gut the deer. YouTube how to get a deer to learn how to do this, or go out there with a friend or a mentor who can show you. It's way too complicated to try to talk you through it right now over the over the skype, but you saw how you know, I showed you how to breast out and take out the legs and thighs of a turkey. Um. You know it's gonna be a process, that kind of deal where you need to learn how to open up the deer, take out and trails and stuff like that that then cools down the deer's body. And then after that you'll need to get that deer out of the woods, back to your house or back to your truck or back to wherever, so that you can then make the decision of how to process that meat. You can process the meat yourself. Um And again it helps to have a friend or a mentor someone who knows what they're doing. Um. But I actually learned how to process my dear from a book. I bought a book that was like a step by step guide to processing your own deer. So basically, how to butcher up the meat, you know, into different pieces, how to get it off the get off the bones, and get it into pieces of meat that you can then package up and putting the freezer. So I taught myself out of a book. Um. So that's an option for people, or there's YouTube videos out there that walk you through everything. Or if for some reason you don't want to do that, or you don't have the time to do that, or you don't feel comfortable doing that, there are lots of butcher shops and meat processors all over the country that will do this for a small fee. Um So that's an option too. But you just want to do whatever you can. Gut that deer as quickly as possible to make sure the meat stays cool. Learn how to gut properly so you're not getting um, stomach fluids or things on the meat that will make that meat go bad. Um. Just take this part. Learn as much as you can about this part, because that meat is so important to that's at the very base of what we're doing. That's why we're why we're hunting, is to get that amazing organic, free range protein. So make sure you're taking it, taking it seriously and doing good job of getting that meat out of the woods into your freezer. Um. And that's some good, good tasting food too. You you had some elk, you had some caribou. Um, So you've enjoyed stuff that's gonna taste very much like a white tailed deer. And I think based on your experiences that are hunting Camp Connor, you can attest to the fact that it's it's it's something worth working towards, right for that kind of food. Gosh, it was. It was some of the most rush best food I've eaten in a long time. It was really I mean, obviously, you know, going out there in the woods naturally you build up a hunger, but I was. I was looking forward to every meal more so than I usually do. Yeah, so, Dan, I mean I feel even effort. Like I came into this podcast with like high hopes of like feeling that we cover so much, so clearly and articulately, and now looking back on it, I'm like, Man, I feel like we we had to gloss over so much. We had to walk circles around so many different things. But I'm hoping we laid out some basics that will be helpful as someone that's brand new. Is there anything though that you feel like we definitely missed that we have to touch? I feel I feel this is what I feel. Um, Connor do me a favor because guys like myself and Mark who are in the hunting industry right we see it every day. Um, whether it's pressure to shoot a big buck or it is you know, because we are I don't know, we're content providers to the industry. You know, we have to play in the world where big mature bucks are the most important thing in the world, when in all actuality it is not important at all. Okay, as a new hunter, I would say, go out there and just hunt and not worry about what size the antlers are, how old the deer is. All that stuff can be secondary as you progress up your ladder, But for guys like me, I, I go into a season kind of thinking about this and it and it doesn't necessarily take the fun out of it, but in a way, it kind of takes the overall enjoyment of what hunting is supposed to be about down a level. So from from what I would say to myself as an experienced hun or to a new hunter, don't worry about that all that extra ship. Just go out and experience hunting in its ross form. I agree. I think that's ah. It goes back to, you know, kind of where we started, that experience being out there observing, learning, connecting with these wild animals in these places in a in a different way that that only happens when you go out there as a hunter, um, which I think you've got to begin to experience on that Turkey Enconnor and uh and have fun, enjoy it. Don't start out too much about it. Um. You are out there trying to achieve a goal of trying to get that deer, trying to get that meat. But enjoy it too, because, um it's a it is a millennia old, thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of year old tradition of humans acquiring our meat from the land in this way, and it's uh, in my opinion, of privilege to be able to still partake in that. So um, so enjoy that process. So Connor, now that you've heard all this stuff and we've confused you probably with ten thousand different things, or do you have any pressing questions you want to make sure we cover before we wrap this one up? You know, No, I think you guys fielded all my questions very well and it was super helpful to get some pro tips from you know, some of the best way to tail guys out there. And you know, I think too Dan's point early on in the show, it's pretty amazing what goes into you know, the entire process and strategy and how long and you know how patient you guys have to be. But ultimately it seems like that's what makes it so fulfilling. You know when when you get the deer and you know ultimately when it gets to your table. So you know, it's just something my mom, I'm really looking forward to getting into and can't thank you guys enough for for having me on and fielding my questions. Hey, our pleasure, Connor, and I want to extend the invite if you if I haven't already, and I think we kind of have talked about but if not, I would love for you to come upto Michigan and deer hunting with me at some point this year to try to take some of the things we talked about and actually try them out in the field and uh see if we can feel your freezer with some venice and if you're interested, absolutely challenge accepted. All right, well, uh Dan Connor, thanks guys for this fun conversation. It's it's got me excited to get out and hunt myself and also to continue trying to have more conversations like this, because next to hunting yourself, one of the most fulfailing things is is seeing other people getting into it. Like I had so much fun watching you and Jason kind of test the waters and taking my nephew out of the past two springs, getting him out there and him learning some of these things. That has been so much fun. Um So, anyone listening right now that is a experienced hunter but hasn't got to take other people out. I hope you will, Um, I hope you'll give it a try. I hope you will try to introduce more people to what we're doing, because I think any of us that are experienced in this stuff, we know how fulfilling it is. We know how great it is to to feed your family with something that that you you know, hunted yourself, and to be part of that whole process, and to enjoy all these experiences. We know how great that is. So take a little time out of your hunting season, take a little time out of your year to to share it with someone else. I think, um, I think you'll enjoy that, and I think it's gonna be important for the long term future of our hunting community and lifestyle. So that's it for today, folks. And the only thing I add is just a quick reminder to head on over to iTunes and give us a quick rating review if you haven't yet. It doesn't take very long at all, but it is a huge help. Also, make sure, if you haven't done this already, head over to the Wired to Hunt YouTube channel and subscribe. We've got a new series coming out or a kind of a series of videos within our our weekly vlog series which I will be taking a look back at my two thousand seventeen hunting season for holy Field and breaking down the decisions I made, some of the mistakes I made, some of the lessons I learned, And of course if you follow this podcast, you've heard me talk about him a lot. But I actually haven't put the video out there from two thousand seventeen yet, so this will finally be happening. I think you'll get a kick out of it, so make sure you subscribe to that Wired to Hunt YouTube channel. And next, I want to thank our partners for their support of this podcast. Big Things to Yetie Cooler's Matthew's Archery may have an optics White Tailed Properties hunter a maps, And of course thank you all for listening. As I have mentioned many times before in the podcast, I couldn't be doing this without you guys, your support, your time and attention. It is so appreciated and and I mean the the overwhelming deluge of positive comments and emails and messages and tweets after the news I shared last week. I just can't thank you enough for all that. It was incredible. You guys have lifted me up and supported me so much and it is very very much appreciated, so until next time, thank you and stay wired to hunt.