00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon, and this episode number one sixty two taine the show. We've got a special episode recorded in front of a live in person audience, and we're talking about how to plan and execute d I Y deer hunting trips with my friend and super successful deer hunter Andy May. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by six Gear, and today we have a very very special episode for you. Today's episode was actually recorded last week in front of a live studio audience down New Orleans as Louisiana for the Quality Dear Management Association National Convention, and man it was it was a super super cool event. Myself, my nine Finger co host, and our special guest all flew down to the Big Easy and at am last Friday, we got up in front of a crowd of I guess maybe a couple hundred people and we throw on our headsets. We attempted to act semi professional even though I was wearing flip flops, and we talked about planning and executing a do it yourself whitetail hunting trip, and then when we wrap that up, we answered some audience questions and then spent the rest of the day checking out the Sports on expo, talking to other deer hunters, eating some seafood, and then later that evening we actually got to go out with a bunch of Wired Hunt listeners at our Wired Hunt meetup, have some cold beverages, catch up, talk about all sorts of good stuff. So overall, it was just an awesome time. And Dan Dan is not on here for a little intro, but in the future episode the two of us will talk more about this experience. But in short, I think we both had an absolute blast, and you know, after doing the live recording, both of us were so kind of jacked up about it. We got us thinking about doing more of these kinds of live events, So keep your ears tuned for more info on stuff like this in the future. I think there may be some cool things in store. But with that said, for you guys listening today, for this episode, we brought on a guest I've wanted to have on the show for a very very long time, so I'm really excited about this, and I give a longer intro in the actual in studio recording or the in I don't know, in front of an audience recording. But very briefly, if you follow the wire hunt website for any amount of time, you've probably seen some of the articles that this guest has written, or you might have seen the d I Y Dear profile or that's I guess it's a d I Y Dear hunter profile series he's been putting together for us. But this guy is just a machine. And I'm talking about my friend and d I Y Big buck killer Andy May, So you know, if you're not familiar, you are in for a treat on this one. As Andy, Dan and I discuss all sorts of different topics related to going on these kinds of trips, planning on them, and pulling off a successful hunt, and I think, honestly, a lot of stuff we talk about will actually be applicable to, you know, anyone out there hunting a kind of d I Y situation, especially as Andy talks about a lot different tactics related to scouting, and you know, how is hunting kind of plans and processes changed throughout a trip or even a season so whether or not you're gonna go on a trip, I think you're gonna find things you can apply to your own hunts, and I know you're gonna enjoy this. So finally, before we get to that recording, I do want to give a quick shout out to the Quality Deer Management Association for many here because we just had such a great time. And I've been a member of the q dum AY for coming up, but I think a decade now and I really think, without a doubt, I can tell you that there's no better deer hunting conservation organization, resource, or community that's better to be a part of them. The Quality Deer Management as social creation. You know, whether you own or least land and manage it or just hunt private land or public, the cutium MAY is is for you. I think that they are working really hard to make sure that all deer hunters, all deer hunters feel welcome, and that all deer hunters find the Cutium MAY beneficial. I mean, just off the top for no other reason. Their magazine is just a top notch resource as far as educating you on dear biology and habitat needs and how to age deer and how to manage deer and all that good stuff. But then there's also lots of great hunting stories and hunting strategy pieces and their website and seminars and online courses and in person events. They're just there's just so many tremendous resources that you have access to through this group. So this past week I was just reminded of that. I guess how what a special organization that is. Um The people that are part of it are awesome. Um So I'm just I'm just very appreciative the fact that this organization is out there and that they invite us down to record a podcasts at their convention. And what is also really cool is that the qt um A is offering a special opportunity for wire tent listeners if you'd like to become a member all the Quality Deer Management Association, which I would highly, highly highly recommend you do. So, if you go to their website at q d m A dot com and hit the join button, you can use the promo code deer Con that's d E E R c O N deer Con through the end of two thousand seventeen to get five bucks off your membership cost and you'll get a q d M a hat he grunt to a d kal and the cut M a Aging and Scoring Bucks dvity which is which is an awesome resource for learning how to age deer or you know, estimate the rack score. And then of course that membership gets you access to all the events I mentioned and their magazine too, so it's a heck of a deal. So again, you can head over to cutum a dot com after this podcast, click the joint button and use the promo code deer con to get five bucks off your membership and all those other great items. I really think you will all benefit as members. I hope you'll join me as a member. And now, without much further ado, we're going to take a break for a word from our partners at Sick of Gear, and then we'll toss it over to our live recording down in New Orleans at the q d M a National Convention Enjoy. For this week's sit of Story, we're joined by sitcom Ambassador Chad Stearns, who tells us about a memorable white tail hunt in Michigan where he wasn't even behind the trigger. Okay, last fall, um, I was hunting a buck that we had deemed the name Dozer, three year old buck in central Michigan, and I had been after him for a couple of years, just a unique rack, and it was interesting my son was the one who actually gave him his nickname. So I've had a couple of long distance encountered during archery season, been trying to hunt some primary scrape areas and could never seem to connect. And one evening late in our Michigan Rifles sas in here, my son was with me running the video camera and we had kind of change tactics, started hunting some food sources, hoping the deer would come out, and he appeared at about two hundred and fifty yards following a dough out into a picked cornfield. So, you know, between he and I trying to coordinate our efforts and in Guineamon video and and finally got an open shot. We were able to take this deer. And it was special to me because I've spent a lot of time trying to guide my son and a lot of my time recently has been taking him. Sort of share that moment. Buck. We've been after, had countless trail camera pictures. I was really kind of special to share that with him. I think he was more excited than I was. So, you know, anytime you can take kids out and introduce them to the outdoors and have some success, that's just ultra special to me. So that one stands out to me as a sick moment. He was wearing Fanatic system. If you'd like to create a sick of story of your own, or to learn more about sit because technical hunting apparel, visit sick of gear dot com. Well, thank you, man, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Um, And this is gonna be very different than what you guys have heard so far today, what you saw maybe yesterday. So before we go any further, before I introduce these guys or talk about much that you'll be interested, I want to make sure that everybody knows what a podcast is. Why we've got these funny things on our heads while we're sitting here instead of standing up and having a great presentation. If you're not familiar, Basically, a podcast is like radio for the internet. So instead of you know, listening on your m FM radio, you're gonna be able to get our radio show on your phone, your tablet, your computer. And because we're not you know, within the constraints of a network, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about, and that just so happens to be dear. So, what we do on the wire Hunt podcast is every week myself and my co host right here, we talk to different deer hunting experts, deer related experts about what we love deer hunting. We spend hours dissecting, deciphering, and digging into exactly how they do what they do and then how we can apply that to our own hunts. So with the word podcast, we've been doing that for almost four years now, and UM, we've been able to talk to some really really interesting people, including many people you'll see here this weekend or you already have seen. Um, and somehow we've suckered tens of thousands of people to listen to it. So that's kind of cool. So that being said, what we're gonna be doing today is just that we're gonna record a podcast. We're gonna sit here, we're just gonna have a conversation three of us. Um, it's gonna be loose, gonna be casual, it's gonna be fun, and we're gonna talk about something very different than I think what you'll usually hear about at a Quality Deer Management convention, and that's gonna be planning and executing an out of state hunt. So not on land your own, not on on a great big lease. We're talking about how can you go out and have an adventure on your own land maybe I've never seen before, maybe in public land, maybe in private land. And that's something I've been fortunate to have some sex success with Andy as well. So before we get to though, who are these other two gentlemen? To my left? Is my co host, Like Matt said, Dan Johnson. He's an avid Aioba bow hunter. He is the coast of the wire Hunt podcast. He also hosts his own show, The Nine finger Chronicles. He has only nine fingers, and he's also the father of two soon to be three. And it wouldn't be a wired Hunt podcast if we didn't hear something about the tyrants. So how are the kids? My wife is pregnant right now. She's at home with two literally maniacs, so I think she wanted to come and me stay at home, but she doesn't know much about deer hind. Well, I'm glad you're to make it. It's funny, you know, we record this podcast at home, so I'm in my home office. He's in his house. So usually when we are doing this, I'm in my pajamas and he's at this house with his wife or his kids matching on the door. Wanted to be in here, so this is very different. To my right though, is our special guest with us here today. He's a guy who have wanted to have on the podcast for a long, long long time and he's refused to do so. So somehow I convinced him to the first time to do it, to do in front of people. His name is Andy Man, and he is a hunter from Michigan, someone I've looked up to for a very long time. Um. I think he is the single best d I Y bow hunter I know. Personally. He's an absolute machine. He doesn't like to talk about it. He's very humble, but he's been doing these types of odd state trips for more than fifteen years. He's killed more than six mature bucks on these trips. Every year he is going to three or four or five different states and he's killing three or four or five mature bucks. It's very impressive. I also hate him for it because you know, every every season seems like I'll be sitting the tree stands October November, and just when I'm getting really down things haven't been going well. That's the point where I get this buzz on my phone and I'm sitting there hating my life because things just have gone wrong and wrong and wrong. And then there's this text from Andy. Got another one, So he's kicking you while you're down, basically, So thank you for returning the favor finally and helping us out with something. Yeah. Andy has a lot to share, so I'm excited he can be here to have this conversation with us. And like I said, we're talking about something that's outside of I think the norm is for this organization in many cases. I've been a cut M A member for almost a decade now, and I've been really lucky to be able to have some properties that I have exclusive access to where I can do some management on small scale, where I can do some habitat improvements, where I can get to know a local deer herd and do some things along those lines. And I love that. It's a lot of fun, and I think it's amazing that the stuff that we learned here this convention. A lot of people is tremendous, But I also think that I'd be missing out if that was the only thing I did. I think there's been something kind of profound that I've been able to learn from these different types of trips, going outside of the usual, expanding my borders, comforts and arizons, getting out of the comfort zone. And I think that it's an incredible adventure to go somewhere new, to try something new, to to be put into a tremendous challenge and figured out that process. But it also actually, quantifiably I think has made me a better deer hunter, right And I can take that and bring it back to my home properties. I can bring it back to my spots that I manage and have food plots and and and and focus on specific deer um. So I think there's value in that. And that's that's why I thought would be important to have this conversation here, because I think there's a lot of people here within the Quality Management Association who have tremendous amount of deer hunting experiments, experienced deer hunting management experience, but maybe haven't tried something like this. Maybe they haven't gone and tried to hunt public land in a different state. Maybe they haven't drives and slept at the back of the pickup truck trying to learn and learn new property. That's not for everybody, right, but it is for some people, and that's kind of what we want to talk about. And Andy, you're a guy who has almost more experienced with this than anyone to know. So I'm just kind of curious. I mean, that's my thoughts on on why I love doing this drips Why I went to Montana last year and, like like I said, slept in the back of my pickup for a week. Um, why do you do it? Um? It kind of started for me out of necessity, Like I'm from Michigan. Um started kind of later in life, uh, with bow hunting. And within a few years I started having some regular success in Michigan. You're allowed to buck tags, um, And over time I was starting to get consistently, Uh I was. I was able to consistently fill those tags in Michigan. So it just kind of made sense that, you know, I need to start looking elsewhere to kind of expand that season. You know, I was completely eating up with it as I am now, and um, so naturally I just started kind of looking into some options out of state, and around that time I kind of drugged my feet on it and I was talking to Dan about that, really kind of mad at myself that I didn't jump into it sooner. I was kind of maybe a little overwhelmed or um, you know, just a little worried about, you know, going into a new familiar area with nowhere to go. But I had some acquaintances that at that time had been going to Iowa and that was kind of that was kind of when Iowa was really getting a lot of recognition and they were going out there on these d I y trips and they were I just kept hearing stories of them coming back and I was like, man, it's gonna blow your mind. And you know, we saw you know, we saw ten Mature Bucks and three days and and you know I hadn't seen like ten Mature Bucks in my whole career, so you know it it was It's kind of sparked that fire to kind of to try something new. So that was my That was the first step, as I put in for a point for Iowa started doing that and it really became something that, um, it's kind of evolved from that that that first year where I did that first hunt, it's evolved into something now where I mean, that's what I looked. Or two. I hunt in Michigan. I hunt hard in Michigan. I like hunting Michigan. But it's tough and it's it's different. Um. I get kind of used to, you know, the properties that I hunt there, and I get real you kind of figure them out, you know, and you kind of know what the know the deer that are there, you know what they're gonna do. You know the spots that can produce. So you know, when I go out of state, it's it's kind of like for me, it's like an adventure. It's a how how can I tackle this ground here? How can I figure out this ground? How can I you know, how can I get an arrow into some of the better deer in this area? And I found like, for me personally, that's that's what hunting is for me, what I get the most out of and what I enjoy the most about that stimulation. It keeps me sharp. Um. I love I love constantly trying to think of of tactics and and figuring out ground and terrain funnels and all that and just trying to just trying to I guess expand my horizons and then you know, it started off with one state, and then I threw. I started throwing in a second state, and then you know, you kind of learned that area. And then and then I started working into my schedule a third and fourth states. So what's crazy about your schedule those is he works at a school and he doesn't get vacation time, so he hunts three days at a time, four days at a time, and somehow I was able to to get that done. It's kind of remarkable. But to your point, it's it's like that chess match, and I think I love figuring out a single property like that. I hunt a lot. That's fun. But then, like you said, sometimes you figure it out and you know, all right, well, if I'm in that funnel and November four, it's going to happen, or I've I've put in these food plots, I've I've put a terrific plan together. You start to figure that out. For me. One of the things I absolutely love the most about Honey Mature Bucks is that chess match. It's constantly trying to figure I want to put myself in that situation where the pieces are all over and I'm like, how do I put this together? Right? Like? That is the ultimate challenge for me that I love. And so these when you're putting yourself in these new situations, you're forced into the beginning that puzzle every single time. And I think that's it's just an absolute last right And I mean you've done some of this too, like, and I know, not only is that challenge fun, but I know, like just for you, the adventure of going somewhere new and that the sand Hills in Nebraska you went to a few years ago, went out to the sand Hills and U I'm a tree stand hunter and I went to Arthur County, Nebraska has the only water in that entire county is either in cattle tanks or maybe pools. When it rains. If you're not familiar with the sand hills, it all soaks down into the into the water. It's the lowest, at one point was the lowest populated uh county in the entire United States. And there's way more cattle than there is people and there's no trees. So I'm a tree stand hunter in Iowa hunt you know, bench points, funnels, whatnot. So going out there, I pulled up to this property and I had an awakening and it was just when we get back to this experience, this experience where it makes you have to use your brain again because once you get into a property, for example, the property that I hunt in Iowa, it's from like my seventh year on this property, and I'm getting to the point now where I'm I'm still learning something new every year, but it's I mean, I'm putting my tree stands in close to the same location, tun fine tuning, knowing where there those funnels are going to be, knowing where those pinch points are going to be. And I've done that over let's say a seven year period. Now I'm going out to someplace new, and I have to do that in a four day period. So and yeah, absolutely absolutely so. So Okay, at least I know that the two of you are convinced of the importance of trying to trip like this. If we're gonna do a hunt like this, we'll start. And if when you're starting, let's say this year, you decid, hey, I want to hunt a new state. I'm going somewhere new I haven't been before, and you're starting that decision making process. Okay, how do you pick a state or an area, like where do you start that? Uh? Well, for me, I kind of looked at my situation, like Mark said, I work at a school. I don't get vacation time, but I do. I get three personal days a year, and our vacations are our spring break, our Christmas break, that sort of thing. So, um, I'm pretty much limited to weekends. And then you know, sometimes I come down with a cough and I call in money, I take a personal day. So you know, three to four day trips. Obviously, I'm not gonna go to Wyoming on a three to four day trip. So I'm in southern Michigan. I'm very close to the Ohio border. I'm very close to the Indiana border. Something. I'm somewhat lucky that I have those states right there. Those are kind of, you know, kind of no brainers for me that I can get to. In fact, there's some properties that I can get to in Ohio. Um on on a on a week on a weeknight after work, I can buzz on down and if I got the right conditions on a you know, in October evening, I'll do that. So um, I kind of try to pick those you know, two or three states that are close by, and I try to you know, learn those really well. Um, I don't necessarily look for the best areas. Um. You know a lot of guys will look at the stats and stuff, you know, the best zone in Iowa and this is where all the boot and Crockett bucks are taken. And I actually go a different route, you know, I I kind of ignore that. I like to go. That's to the places that are a little unknown or the places that aren't known for big bucks and just figuring them out. I don't need a me personally, I don't need a big hunter and sixty inch buck to make me happy. Um, I'm I'm perfectly happy. Uh, you know, chasing good representative bucks for the area, and and there's there's hunting pressure all you know, everywhere, but you know, kind of go to those areas that are a little less popular, a little less uh you know, kind of more overlooked, not as publicized. You might find yourself, you know, maybe not hunting quite a big as bigger bucks, but you might have a little less pressure and you can really kind of there's some areas that I've I've been hunting for years and years and years, and it took a lot of you know, trial and error, but I have them. Really, I'm really zoned in out a few locations, and now I know that these properties, you know, when the timing is right, um, through experience, through trail cameras, that sort of thing. Now I know if I go down at this time period with these conditions, you know, I've I've routinely now been able to have success. So then over years and years of experience, I've just been able to kind of map that out in time, that out over several different states. And I started looking into you know, started doing Kentucky to try to get something early. And now I'm looking into some August seasons which aren't really white toe related, but you know, I'm gonna do my first antelope before school starts, so I start trying to to find those. And then I always kind of bank on, you know, io when I draw that tag, that kind of takes precedence. And when I have hunted Illinois a bunch, so I think, you know, jumping in real quick, I think one of the things I look forward to your point you mentioned earlier. You know, Iowa get a lot of press obviously, great state. You're lucky man, um. But some of these big name states that are always on TV and everything, they have a lot more nonresident pressure, more people trying to go in there where they have a lot of outfitters, so it's harder for someone to come in and try to get free access. UM. So I've tended to do the same thing, trying to hunt some of these states that aren't quite at that upper echelon but still dramatically different than my home turf in Michigan or even within like Iowa. Uh. The southern units of Iowa famed for their big bucks and for the opportunities down there, but that's also where all the outfitters are. That's also where a lot of a lot of pressure is. So I've tried to find different units within that state that aren't nearly as popular but are still incredible, so I can hunt there a lot more often. I can go, and I can get access and hunt places for free, which a lot of people don't think is possible. But there's if you go these places where there's not hunters of outfitters dozens of outfitters, you can still find free permission. You can find public land with good hunting, and I think you know we've demonstrated that in our own experiences. That's absolutely possible. It just takes some work. Um, it's different, but it's absolutely possible. I think we can elaborate a little bit on that to the gaining access right. And one thing I am really good at is talking, schmoozing schmoozing and talking to landowners and getting my foot into a door and you know, in a way that they can learn who I am. They can, you know, because even though Iowa is a big buck state, there's still and they're still high pressured public land. And I will, believe it or not. So I don't own property. I don't lease property. So I knock on doors and I talk with these landowners. I ask them, you know, first off, I'm only a bow hunter. I don't I don't take advantage of the gun season. So I tell them that straight off the bat. I asked them if I could shed hunt. I asked him if I can maybe turkey hunt, or you know, I think that's just a great little hack, right or or gaining access for mushrooms, which is the hardest of everything, but you know, getting your foot in the door, proving to your to them that you're a good person. You're not gonna go drive on their wet field destroy their property. And then at that point, year two, you know you're one. You don't get permission. Year two you do, year three you do establish that relationship. That's a crusted That is such a great way to start getting access to these places outside of your normal area. UM. I think it probably it goes a long way. Yeah, like just just you know, being personal with them. UM. I've we've had good luck just getting permission. You know, it's it's definitely gotten a lot harder. But um, you know, especially kind of the older population, Like you know, people are rude now and you know, don't really take the time they want they want the land hunt and you know they'll ask if they say no, then you know, see you later, or you know they might just offer a you know, a sum of money or something. But um, you know what I found is that you know, if if you're very polite and um, you know, you might get told no, but you just take the time to kind of to be personal with him. I've gotten permission on an Iowa farm for a one day of chopping wood for their wood burning. Um. I got permission on an incredible um three hundred acre piece in Iowa. Um. This there's this older gentleman and you know, he his his family had his his wife had died, his kids were out of state, very lonely. He lived in this called an old Rundown house and a buddy and I went up there and we knocked on his door, and you know, he he didn't say yes right away, but he was very talkative. He could tell he just wanted company. He wanted the company. So we sat there and we talked with him, and he's talked. He's just talking about a fence out back that was broken down that he, you know, couldn't get back to to repair it. So my buddy Mike and I we helped him fix that up. Um. And then you know, after that, he invited in his home and he's telling us, you know, his life story, and it was kind of a hot situation. But you know, he was showing pictures of his family and stuff, and he could just tell he just really wanted there, you know. And and then and then after that, he invites us out for burgers in town. So we went and got some burgers. We noticed that he, you know, he was an avid sprite drinker. So he long story short, he ended up giving us permission. You know at the end, at the end, you know we did, uh we threw him a little out of money, um, not much, and we we brought him a bunch of sprite, and you know, he was just was just really happy. Um he was. He welcomed us onto his property, excited for us to have there, and he had actually turned down several outfitters that had offered him money. And uh, so you know, there is still opportunities out there to get permission if you're persistent about it. I actually go into those situations with a very long list of people that I want to ask permission, but also with the public lands that you know that I'm in a key on and that's kind of where I I focus my area, so so on the private land piece. Really quickly, I want to run through kind of my process for how and I think we all kind of use a similar process. Um. Basically, what I'm looking at is if I pick a general area, Let's say, all right, I want to hunt southern Ohio and somewhere in this neck of the woods. Because I've got a friend nearby that says it's good. Let's just hypothetically say, then I'm gonna go and there's a lot of online resources right now where you can go, and you can see a plat map basically that shows all the property parcels, the property owners, the border information, and you can have that overlaid over an aer aerial map, so you can see what these properties look like from a cover standpoint, from a terrain standpoint, and then you can see, okay, which properties actually hold this cover I want or whatever it might be that looks like it could be, you know, positive for deer um. And then, like you said, I'll put together a long list of these landowners and their addresses. And then for me, the way I like to do it is I need, I need to get wrong with it. I'm not like you like I get. I get nervous before having to go on there knock on the door. And I think a lot of people that's uncomfortable, that's intimidating. So for me, that first door knock is kind of brutal. But if I have a list of fifteen of them, and I just tell myself today I'm doing it, knock on fifteen doors today, I don't care. How lous do you feel about it? Mark, I don't care that you've got pit stains. You're gonna knock on fifteen doors and you're just gonna do it. And so the first one I'm like, oh jeez, and they that's fine. And the second one is a little better, and the third one is a little better, and then it's snowballs and by like twelve thirteen four. It's a long day. It's a lot of work, but it's a numbers game. I think getting permission these days, and I think a lot of people get frustrated because they hear, okay, yeah, you can get free permission if you knock on the doors and still knock on a door and they get to know and I'm like, this is it was horrible. If I had your face, I would get every door that I knocked at now if you had this go so. So for example, in Iowa several years ago, I know I know where to hunt, but I want to try to get access. So I did this. I took good day. I had fourteen addresses on a list, and I took you know, it was like twelve hours. I knocked on fourteen doors and had also of situations like that. I had lots of nose but then I had lots of people who just want to chat and we started talking and we kept talking and talking. By the end of it, two different farm owners said yes, and I had a total of actually acres to hunt for free in Iowa, and it was I don't think a lot of people think that's possible, but it is. UM. So that's kind of a process from a private land access standpoint, getting that list. Knocking on those doors another thing I always do. I don't know if this has worked for you, Andy, but whenever you're talking to someone, even if they say no, I always ask do you happen to anyone else I should chat with? Is there anyone else in the area would be worth, you know, catching up with? And so many times like wow, Joe around the corner, might he lets one guy in gun season? Most of my leads have come from something like that, gaining knowledge of the area. And one more thing to touch on that before we move on is keeping that relationship. So I have a in Iowa. I have had permission on this one farm UM for probably going on eight to ten years, and I call him on the phone. I sent him a Christmas card with usually like a Walmart gift card because that's where they do their shopping. Um, when we go down there, we're you know, we go into their home. We spend an hour or two talking to them and seeing how they're doing, and uh, you know, you kind of take care of them and and and show them how much you appreciate that, and that you respect their property and and just really appreciate, you know, the kindness that you're given. And that goes a long way. There's been several other people on many, many parcels that have had permission with me that are gone. But you know, I rarely lose one, unless like something gets leased out from rom or something like that. But you know, you take the time, you know, several times a year to stop in and talk to him, bring him some fresh walleye, you know, caught out a lake eries, you know, stuff like that. Just people don't do that anymore. And I think to that point an important thing to know when it comes to try a trip like this and out of state hunt, whether it's hundred miles from home or from home, there's something to be said for the prep work and that Let's say you've got seven vacation days to the year, you're gonna work with. You could either take all seven of those days for the actual hunt, or you could take one of those and go out and February or March or June and do a day like this where you try to get access or where you scout the land on foot. And I think you'd be much better set up if you take that, if you find a way to make the trip beforehand and get access or look at public land or whatever it might be, UM, versus trying to show up on day one, because it's very difficult to get permission by phone or anything like that. It's very difficult to really figure out a property, UM without seeing it. Now you can't do it with with maps these days. UM. But that's what I want to talk about next. I want to talk about. Let's let's say we we found an area we went down in in February, knocked on a lot of doors, got permission, or there's a piece of public land that looked good on the map. UM. I'm curious next, how you go through this, how you start that scouting process. UM. I do a lot of scouting, like I said, online, looking at maps, figuring things out from a high level UM, and then you go from there. You go you kind of ground trouth it. But what's your process andy, Um, you know, I'm definitely a map freak. Um. I have you know, uh binders of each state with the properties that I hunt, the properties that I plan on hunting, and the proper backup properties you know, public, you know, private, that sort of thing. And I have you know, the aerials, and then I have, um, the the topo maps and all that stuff, and I do I really zone in on that. But for me personally, I can find out the obvious stuff, like the stuff that probably everyone in this room can find, which is what your your typical funnels. Um. You know, you' somebody. It's very easy to to see like river crossings um. Now with Google maps and stuff, you can zone and you can actually find deer trails um you know, and see where there's a lot of intersecting trails um, you know, betting areas you know, and depending on the type of habitat, very easy to see and predict. Um. So what I find more for me personally, I get I get more um detail with boots on the ground. So I always try to and it helps because these states aren't terribly far from me. Montana would be hard to do this, um, but I like to get out there in the spring, early spring, you know, after the snow melt, but before green up, especially if I'm planning like a rut, a pre rut rut trip late October, you know, early November, maybe that second week in November. That's when that sign is really visible. You know. You can see the rubs, you can see the scrapes, you can see the trails. Everything is, you know, was just made a few months ago. You can really dial in and see where kind of everything comes together and really pick out those high percentage spots. So for me, boots on the ground is as as a kind of a necessity, and to be honest with you, for me, that's like just part of the enjoyment of it. I like that as much I like trying to scout and figure out dear and going on these adventures in brand new areas where I don't even know what's their success or not. I actually enjoy that maybe more than actually getting getting a buck on the ground, you know what I mean. I just I've really come I've just become addicted to that constant stimulation of new you know, put me in an unfamiliar area with the bow in my hand and the wind in my face, and it's like, yeah, I'm always impressed of all the people I know, I hear that. Oh and he's going a new spot and it's like within three days or four, bam, he's got one down. Like you're you seem very adept at finding those high as locations very quickly and being able to key in on them at the right times. And you kind of alluded to a few of the specific things, but can you give us like a specific example of a time where you showed up at a property you did you're scouting, you said, Okay, X and Y are the right spots for my rut trip or whatever, and how that worked out. Okay, So like if I was going on a rut trip, you know, again, I picked the you know, on the map, I kind of zone in on some obvious spots. But by getting boots on the ground, and I think, just, um, you know, well, by boots on the ground, I can really zone in on an area. We talked a little bit about the spot within the spot, like guys can pick out funnels, um, you know, and they're they're great spots. They produce UM and what I found is a lot of times there's there's there's funnels or or downwind of like a dough betting area during the rut can be dynamite, but there will be an actual like a tree or a very small location that is the spot within the spot. When I say that, like, for instance, I'll give you an example. Um, there's a spot in There's a three of them that come jump right into my head, but one in Iowa. UM. When we went in the spring and we scouted, um, we found this. Um, there's this ridge system that kind of there's you know, a ridge point that comes down this way, a ridge point that comes down this way, at a ridge point that comes down this way. So we got a lot of things converging. Typically you don't want to hunt low in a ridge type country because the wind swirls. Well, this situation was different and I found it out through you know, hunting it and a lot of trial and airror. But the bottom was so wide that I could with a certain direction get some pretty steady wind. If it was coming over the ridge, you get all kinds of you know, every deer that comes down in that area will smell you. But this one direction, because of the wide bottom. It would blow me right up this way. Now it would cut me off this way, which deer would come from sometimes. But again I'm I'm in the in the rut in Iowa. You know, deer coming from a lot of different directions. Um. So, but this this spot in scouting that really stood out. There was a lot of big rubs, so we knew so there was some big deer in the area, and there was a very big, giant primary scrape right there surrounded by perimeter coverter our perimeter cover, um just kind of your your text book, um, like early November, late October, big big scrape and perimeter where it's like, man, this is this is the spot. I'm gonna kill him here. So you know, we hunted that spot and we we killed deer. They're like, you know, we'd see we'd see some bucks come down the ridge and about half of them, half of the deer we saw came by the spot. But then what I noticed over experience, and it took me, it took me some some time to develop this. What I noticed is that fifty percent of the deer we're coming through here, but right over there, fifty yards away, nine pent of the deer went by that and there was no sign there that pointed that out. There was no rub or scrape or anything like that. It was the way the terrain worked. And you know, you go in there in the spring because these bucks are cruising, there's no beat down trails. Really, there's some faint stuff, but this is stuff that happens very briefly in the season, you know, during the during the cruising phase and um of the rut, so you don't get that beat downside. But what it was is that's the terrain. The way the terrain worked. It funneled everything down that point, even though there was no specific sign there that screamed out at you. So what we did is we moved a tree stand over there and that you know, that was the trip um where I think you were in Ohio and I was in Iowa. This is exactly one of the scenarios. I was frustrated in Ohio. You're having a tough time and and frustrated, and um I sat for the first day in Iowa. UM sat in that spot. We waited for the right timing. It was November six and ten thirty in the morning, a nice twelve point was split. Brows came down and just like just like every other buck cruising through that area, almost every other buck crossed her that spot, and you wouldn't know it if unless you were really observant. You thought back, um about a lot of previous hunts and what you saw and what my hunting partners had saw and told me, I, you know, I'm I'm able to um. One thing that I've noticed that I'm that I'm able to do is like the information kind of stays in here, I'm able to pull it back pretty quickly. Good recall, Yeah, good recall. And then you know, when a friend sits there or or anybody that hunts down that area, I'm I'm constantly asking questions because I want to learn turn from them too. So and what we found out is just that spot, it just kind of everything came together there and uh, it's turned into one of those spots. If you if you go there November five, it's November ten and you sit in that spot with that wind, you're you're going to kill a good buck. There's no I mean, you're gonna get a crack at one. I mean you might blow the shot, but there's a It's just one of those spots and now and now you know, I've found several of those in different different areas. I think something you mentioned though, is really important uniquely on one of these types of trips, because I think when you're hunting your own land and you hunt there often, you can learn this stuff over a long period of time and start, like you said, like you're in the process on your Eyowa property, you're fine tuning. You know that, Okay, next year, I'm gonna shift it a little that way. I saw this and that when you're on a trip like this, when you have four days or seven days, you go, like you said, you do some pre game scouting if you can, and then you start out and you have to make game time decisions very quickly. You have to be much more aggressive on a type of trip like that because you have a short time for him to get done. So I think your example there, you've got a great spot. You're thinking this is terrific, and you though see that a significant percentage is there. It's only maybe a fifty yard difference. And maybe if this is my own property that I was gonna be hunting a lot, I'd be like, I'll stick it out here a while longer. See how it goes next year and make a shift. When you're on a trip like this, you don't have that luxury, right you have to, at least in my opinion and from a lot of people I talked to have similar experiences like this. You need to get aggressive with making that decision now and moving because you're on a short time frame. Everything needs to be accelerated on a trip like this, so at least from real quick. At least when I'm starting a trip like this, you know, whether it be early season or the rut, I'll start. I'll scout if I can. In the Montana situation, I didn't get to do any physical scouting. I just looked at maps and did a drive by, and then I went into it, said, okay, first hunt of that trip observation, I'm gonna be somewhere I can see as far as I possibly can and try to learn something by way of that um and then I'm gonna all right. I know that I'm gonna hang a stand the first night, and if it's not exactly where I need to be, I know that day two I need to shift. In day three, I need to shift and keep moving. Or I know some guys that do trips like this where day one they don't even hunt, they just do a full day of scouting, and they'll do stuff that a lot of people would think is crazy, that managed landing. If you let's say, you know my ninety acre farm in Michigan, I hunt the most. I keep like half of that like completely off limits, have a sanctuary. I'm not going to go in there. But if I only had four days to hunt this property all year, and if I never went into more than the property with only four days of AWL, well I'm probably not gonna do. You're not gonna be able to see those opportunities. So what this guy, Eric Piser I'm thinking of right now. He'll go on day one, he'll walk at all, specifically during the rut, so he knows he's gonna bump some deer, and that's gonna make a lot of people cringe's people just don't go through the betting ears. But he does that knowing that, yes, I'm going to damage something within this area, but there's other people hunting already, maybe it's public land. But he's able to learn really important data that he can use over the next four days and in a rut hunt situation where you've got a lot of deer coming in now you can you can get away with that, So you need to know what you can get away with. Like I knew in my my Montana trip. It was early September, and I knew that they would be very sensitive to pressure. So I was gonna stay off on the edges. I was gonna watch and then make very calculated moves every day. But I knew if I blasted into the bedding air or something, it became over. So Day one I set up, I watched. Day two went from a different angle start of fine tune where I had beaten on day three, and the okay, based on what I learned day one and two, I gotta be just a little bit closer into the spot set up in there and four thirty here he came filled the tag um. But I think a lot of people would be afraid to make those moves. And and that's what I mean, even that biggest on the shorter hunts, whether it's a spot in stock or a tree stand hunt, I've always been on a conservative type hunter. Set up those observation stands and try to wait him out or sit in a pinch pointer of funnel and wait him out right, not necessarily in all day sit because I hate sitting all day year old have bad knees. But um, you know time it's from a day standpoint, all right, this buck hasn't been in here for two days. The third day he might come in or you know, making sure my access route it is right. But on a on a those shorter hunts, it's gonna be let's say it's a four day hunt. Day three, you haven't made a move. You're you've just realized that, oh crap, I need to get something done, or this was just another scouting mission. So it forces you to be aggressive and developed different hunting skills. Absolutely, and like we like we said the earlier, I think forcing yourself into these situations makes you better hunter back home because you're constantly working on a new puzzle, right, and you learn things throughout that. So so what else for you when you're when you're figuring out these new properties when you're in there, you mentioned doing that pre preseason scouting and you're kind of launching it rate you're you're trying to spot your adjusting. Are there any other common setups or things that you're thinking about? Maybe maybe we haven't talked about trail cameras, how you might may or may I use those on these types of hunts. Is there anything else as far as executing this hunt that is important to how you're you're having success? Um? I think the biggest The biggest thing is is getting out there and doing it and over time, pick pick an area, um, you know, make sure that there's some quality here there that you're gonna be happy pursuing. And then and then really learn that area and and go go as often as you can, scout as much as you can. Um that some of those farms in Iowa and Kentucky and in Illinois, like I know them, I've hunted them, and I've I've killed big deer on them. Yeah, I still want to go scout him every year in the spring because there's that that one thing that might get me in just a little bit better spot or or find another spot that's kind of like this. So, you know, when you start to learn those properties intimately, I think that's when you can really you know, dial it in where you can get it done on a on a shorter hunt. Now, like you brought up eric pics are and being aggressive and stuff like you know, I hunt very SIMI learned to him. And you know, when we're on these trips, we're not hunting a specific buck. So you know, if you own ground and you're you know, you got you know, you know, Big Louis, that's one a d and you don't you you probably don't want to do that, right but so but but like I said, I go there um with the attention. I'm very happy shooting a good representative buck, a nice pope and young buck. You know, we've we've killed much bigger. But you know, a good solid deer you know, makes me happy. And and that's what it's all about. You know, you just gotta find what type of hunter you are and what what what kind of drives you and what stimulates you and makes you happy. So you mentioned Kentucky and last year at the same time I was on that hunt, I just mentioned Montana. You were in Kentucky and you got thrown into a situation where you had to hunt new areas and you had to figure it out. We kind of had sort of similar hunts and and that you were able to figure it out and things came together. Can you describe that situation a little bit? How you know, the challenge you had there and how you adjusted and were able to get some spots and make it happen. Yeah. I started out um with on public land, UM and I was literally this was a kind of different than most of the time. Most of the time I would I would go and do some pre scouting be because but because it was early season, um, and I didn't have time to uh at you know, at home and everything, I didn't have time to really go out and do much like glassing and that kind of thing. So I just kind of went and I just was like, you know, I'm gonna just do this. I went to I was planning on going to an area that I was somewhat familiar with, ended up in a different area because this one public piece that I had hunted in the past actually moved there opening day back, which was kind of weird. It wasn't on the traditional Kentucky opening day, so I was forced into a new area. UM and you know, stand on my back and I was just kind of scouting and I was going off, you know, just prior knowledge looking, you know, trying to get in deep where you're a little unpressured, moving a little more freely looking at sign that was right now signed because it is early season, like the sign that I was seeing is is right now and by a little island air. On day two, UM, in the evening, UM, I saw a very large buck UM. I don't know how big. He was a very large buck on public land. UM. And then I set up on him the next evening and he didn't show up. And then I kind of had had a couple of slow hunts in between, so I was kind of regrouping and I was driving down. I got out of there, and I was regrouping, and I saw some deer crossing this like CRP type ground UM, kind of rolling hills, large CRP and I could just see and I could see one of them had a rack and it looked like they were going into this piece of timber kind of angle back towards this river bottom. So I was like, well, you know what, I had the on X maps. That's a great tool. UM could immediately find the landowner's name address. Oh, it's right here. So I just stopped UM, asked permission, UM, and he said that there's some guys that come down that that that hunt during the rut, but no one is there during not right now. So he he said he would work with me on like a kind of like a daily trespass fee, very four wild, very cheap, and I was like, you know what, Okay, I just figured I'll try it, so gave him a little bit of money. Um got to stand on my back, kind of headed back towards where I saw those deer going and there was a secluded hayfield that was freshly cut there probably maybe a week of growth, and there the deer were really hammering. I was immediately saw like a lot of deer tracks, so I started kind of circling the field, seeing some dough and fawn tracks. Then I saw a couple of buck tracks while as I was getting around in this backside. Then the tracks really started accumulating and I saw some really good sized tracks, so I know there, I knew there was a an older buck hitting this field. Now, knowing what I know about you know, food sources and the way thermals work, you know, dear like to enter those types of fields in the low spot typically, So there was a low spot across the field. I started edging my way there and checked the wind the whole time. I found a spot where the wind was iffy. Um, But I thought I could make it work. It was going to be kind of a risky deal. I found a tree set up and um, that evening had some deer come out, and the wind was kind of just teetering on like busting me or being just off and that that that deer came out and he literally he had the wind. He was smelling the field and I was twenty five yards this way and he was I was just missing him. I mean, it's it's what you want, um, I kinda I got a little lucky with the stand location and and but he he came out of that field right in that low spot, and I arrowed him in the field. And I'm not a field edge hunter typically, um, but it's Kentucky. It was early season. No one had been out there. I didn't see a single boot track. I knew the pressure was low, so I had a good feeling I was going to see some deer and I didn't want I didn't know how being familiar with the property, didn't know how far in they were betted, so I didn't want to go in there. Too far, didn't have have anything trimmed. I didn't want to go in there hacking. So I sat where I had a little shot into the woods, a little shot to that low spot. And I think you were conservative in that because you didn't know you wanted hang back a little bit observed, but you're also willing to take a risk from the windsday point, which usually if I'm in a premier location, I'm you know, I don't want to risk blowing deer out. But when you've got four days, you need to work with what you've got, and sometimes that's hell Mary's. Sometimes that's swinging for the fences. In this case, it worked out. I'm very I think, you know, on these short trips or out of state trips, like being aggressive. You know you you gotta be aggressive, and you know out of the deer I've shot, you know, I was trying to work it out in my head, but it's something like n or killed on that first sit. So I like fresh sits and I like aggressive sits. I don't do a lot of observation sits on those out of state trips because you know, I'm just now. If I was gonna go early season, ideally i'd get there a few days early, trying to identify a deer to go after, but just the way that the thing worked last year. It was like I was going and I was hunting that next morning. So that's that's an important point. And I think Dan, you can speak to this too. I mean, all three of us utilize this type of technique. And when you're hunting in this kind of way new properties where you don't, you're not able to go in there and have a bunch of tree stands pre hume, you're not able to have the property mapped out just the way you want it. So you need to as you mentioned, going with a stand on your back, running gun, running gun and make it happen. Um, we all utilize that type of setup. I'm curious maybe, Dan, if you want to walk through first your your thoughts on how you manage that. How do you what kind of basic equipment or how's your setup to be able to get in hanging stand the day of and not spook every deer out there? Right? I am a you know, just like you guys first time in best time in title of hunter. Uh. And then from there, if you go back to the same stand, you're gonna see less dear and less dear and less dear. So from an equipment standpoint, something light, something that's gonna get me, uh high enough to shoot but not too high that and it a lot of it depends on the time of year. So if let's say it's early season and I do a running gun on a buck, maybe I saw still on a summer pattern. Um, I need to get and I'm not gonna go high as yeah low, So I'm not trimming so many shooting lanes because they're still leaves on the tree. As the season progresses and the leaves start falling off off the tree, I'll go up a little bit and I'll make sure I'll have have a pulse all with me right or a saw where I don't necessarily need to shoot. I mean some there's some guys in Heroes cut shooting lanes. Is why does this room. I won't do that little pockets and focus on maybe one trail or two trails you know in that in that pinch point, but a lightweight hang on stand with sticks and uh, I'm a huge fan of the lone Wolf tree stand in the stick system that they have. There's others out there that can do similar things. And uh, you know, for me, first time in best time in I'm not looking for, uh a good area where I'm looking for the right tree. So my setup has to be able to fit. You know, some times those trees are crooked. Sometimes those trees are not telephone poles, right, So I I want to have equipment that's going to allow me to set up in the not ideal tree. I think that's a pretty consistent thing with a lot of people that do these kinds of trips is that they utilize that set up and they have the sticks and stand climbers can work, but you're a little bit more restrained trees, so having a hang on, a lightweight hang on stand you can throw on your back, having climbing sticks, and I think something we all do as well is we try to silence those tree stands in some way and your sticks, so put duct tape or hockey tape or some type of cloth to find where those contact points. So before we move on, we need to pause briefly for work from our partners at White Tail Properties, and today we've got a great segment on a topic that really related to what we've been talking about here with Marcus Spencer. New Heart will take it from Noise and you obviously don't want to be spooking the doughs that are better right there that you're hoping are going to pull on that buck. Let's say. So you need to be able to go in there with as best as a possible chance to do it quietly, stealthily. And so I think preparing your equipment, having a process. I think practicing doing this kind of thing is good if you don't hunt this way often, Like go out there in the summer with your sticks and stand and practice setting up. Have a have a plan of how you're gonna get all four of your sticks up there, how you're going to get them off your backpack, how you're gonna pull up your tree stand. Because it is different than doing it in it's June. Yeah, it's all about eliminating mistakes and uh, you know a little clank on your tree stand that could be the end of it. You know, conficiency could ruin your hunts. So um, like Mark said, you know a light tree stand, um sticks, some guys use a tree saddle. I use a tree saddle quite a bit. Um and then silencing your equipment. There's a great company called Stealth Outdoors Um, and they make these things called stealth strips and they're pre cut strips that are are there kind of spongy and they're they're pre cut to fix fit your sticks. And he sticks you have, he makes several different sizes your low wolf tree stands. You know, I have all my gear. I mean there's there's, there's enough, and that's gonna if I drop something or it swings down, and it's gonna be adulphood, it's not gonna cost me a hunt. And I eliminate those mistakes. Um. And then, like Dan said, you know a process of hanging your sticks, hanging your stand, being able to do it efficiently with very little movement, very little um chance of noise, and efficiently quiet, very quiet. I practiced that, and I've gotten real good at being able to get up in a tree stand. Once you find that tree, it should be you should be on autopilot from there and you don't have to think. All you have to do is go up the tree. Yeah. I think it's funny. Um, when you think about this kind of trip compared to like the when you think of the amount of preparation and work that someone puts into a property hunt every year, I mean food plots and hinge cutting and clearing out access lanes and hanging fifteen tree stands. That's a lot of work. And maybe you might assume that when you're going on a d I Y trip. Well, these guys sound that they're running out their haphazard throwing tree stands up the day of. It doesn't sound like the same amount of work and amount of preparation goes into it. But this is different. It's different. You need to prepare your tree stand ahead of time. Um In these types of ways, you need to do a lot of scouting, but in a different way. It's back home on your computer. Um Or it's six months ahead of time on that one day you can drive out there. Um Or it's thinking through a game plan, knowing, Okay, I'm showing up on November three, and I have a plan. I know that day one, I'm gonna try here, and then I'm gonna iterate and I don't adjust, just and you and you go into it. I think knowing these things, being prepared, however, you possibly can to know. Number one, there's gonna be adversity, there's gonna be challenges. Things aren't gonna go the way I want them to, probably, But I have a plan for what to do. I love the idea of the fact that you have backup properties. I think that's really smart. Go like, if you're gonna drive ten hours to go to Nebraska and you only have one place to hunt, and you show up there and have have backup problem. There's been plenty of times where I've went out and uh, you know, the property was getting logged or it was overrun with hunters and then and then then what do you do? You know, you're kind of like WHOA, So you have those backup properties, and uh, you know, you always have something to kind of plan and be probably plan for plan C two because things are constantly changing. You know, those those landowners, Uh they don't always let you know when something gets leased out. You know, they're just you know, they just live there and there they give you permission, so which is great, but it could change. Things can change there. There's there's so many little details and little as aspects of what we're talking about that like are important to understand. I wish we could get into all of them, but we kind of are in a pretty tight time frame here, so we have to wrap this up much much sooner than I wish we had to, but I want it really quick, try to do some rapid fire things here. I think a big question a lot of people have when it comes to a trip like this is is kind of afford it? You know? Can I afford to go and travel out of state and do all this kind of stuff? And I found that a lot of times you can um but it comes out choices, just like anything else. I think. You know, you can choose to invest in hunting, or you can choose to invest in a new best boat, or you can buy a new big screen TV or a big new truck. If try and like something this is important to you and you'd like to do that, make some choices. But I do think it can be much more affordable when people realize. And three really quick ways that I have managed to make this pretty affordable, and I've alluded to a number of them. But number one, hunt low cost states sometimes. So there's a your states like Kansas or Iowa or Illinois that are five six hundred bucks to get at tagged to buy points over a couple of years, that that's a significant cost. But you can go to Ohio or Indiana, Kentucky for hundred fifty bucks or two and fifty bucks and still have a great experience. UM. Lodging is a huge expense for a lot of people. A lot of people want to be in a hotel being nice and comfortable. Nothing wrong with that, But if you're trying to pinch pennies, camping is a great option to do this, UM. And I've done that in a lot of trips and had a lot of fun with it. It's not for everyone, UM, but I've never had a more enjoyable experience in waking up at four thirty in the morning in the back of my pickup truck and I opened up the back cab and it was frosty outside, and there's anteal open the field, and I had a little backpacking stove, hot coffee, and just like there was no one four miles. All I can hear is like these little crickets and there's a river, and I can see snow covered mountains and I'm hunting white tails. A day like that is an awesome feeling. And I didn't pay a dime for it. I didn't pay for access. I was on public in I didn't pay for lodging. It was I mean, that's an opportunity available to us that's pretty neat. And then finally food. If you can plan your meals ahead of time and not go out to dinner every day, you can save a ton of money in that. So we my wife and I well cook a bunch of meals and frees them up throwing the cooler and then I know, just every night I come back and I can just heat him back up on the little stove. My Nebraska trip was the cheapest mayonnaise I could find with white bread and ham loaf. With that, those little cheese nuggets that are in it, oh man, they're horrible, but they give they give me energy, all right. So so do you have any other cost savings or any other like, uh, you know, just if you find the right partner. Um, yeah, it's a good one, you know, split and cost. There's there's a state that I go to with three guys, um, you know, two of my best friends, great guys. Um we sack her face, maybe some big bucks and some better hunting for the sake of just going together. You know, we've had some great luck. We killed deer, we killed good deer. And it does it makes the trip affordable that that, you know, those Illinois and Iowa texts you can get pretty expensive. But that's one way. UM, and I think I think you pretty much kind of touched on everything else. That's kind of what I do to cut costs as well. I'll throw in one more lesson learned. And you've heard this story, and some listeners of our podcasts in the past have. But I'll just say, if you are going and your significant other isn't gonna be there with you, make sure you have a communication plan in place. I didn't do this on one of my trips. I didn't have a good sound schedule of when I'd be checking with my wife, and I happen to get caught up in the experience. I was having so much fun I forgot to check in with her for a day or two. She called the cops, had people searching searching for me, and I was like five hours away fly fishing because I had filled my tag. So I have a plan in place, because you didn't talk to me for a while after that, so I don't make that mistake. And UM, and then I'll just say to other quick things. UM, you know, we we've talked a little bit about this, the fact that there are these opportunities either for free from permission or public land. And there's a lot of things going on right now in the in the country related to public land where there's some politicians that are toss around is crazy idea of selling off our public lands. And if you want to try something like this someday, that's not gonna bode well for you if we lose these places. So I just encourage everyone to try to, you know, google public land transfer or something like that. Learn a little bit about what's going on right now with this whole deal, and um, if you're interested in exploring these places a hunter or hiking or backpacking or try anything else, um, learn a little bit and stand up to try to make sure that doesn't happen. I think that'd be a good thing. And then finally I'd just like to say, yeah, thank you, Lindsay. I thought that was like the clapp in the off stage. I get out of here, you're done that. And then I finally just say, UM, try this if you if it's something intrigues you, if it's something that you've always thought, man, I'd always love to try something that maybe but next year or some nail do it um or gosh, it just seems like a lot of work or just yeah I got my thing. Um, I would just encourage you to take the leap, give it a shot once. It may not be the perfect trip that you see on TV that everyone has and you kill the giant buck and it's like, oh perfect, But I guarantee you if you try something new like this, the experience itself will be will be well worth it. You'll have great memories, you'll learn a lot, and it's something to look back on and say, hey, I did this, Yeah, getting outside of that box. So that's those are my couple of thoughts on it. I know that we're tight on time. If we still have time, we'd love to take some questions from the audience if if anyone has them. Um, we go from there. Okay, So in the second here, we're gonna get to some audience questions, but first we need to break for a quick word from our partners at White Tailed Properties and the White Tailed Institute of North America. Now, in our White Tailed Property segment, we're gonna hear just a little bit about the unique challenges of targeting the churr bucks in heavily hunted areas. Something you know, I can definitely relate to and a lot of people that might want to go on a d I Y trip like we're talking about, I imagine they might be able to relate to this, So that's pretty relevant to what we're discussing. And then from White Tail Institute, we're gonna hear just a little bit about a great forage blend for your fall food plotz. This here something that could come in handy for those of you working on your own properties. So long story short, this is gonna be some interesting stuff and we will quickly get back to our audience question and answer as soon as we get done with us, and from here I'll throw it over to Spencer new Hearth. This week with white Tail Properties, we are joined by Tony Hanson, a land specialist out of Michigan, and Tony is gonna be telling us about how hunting strategy changes in pressured states like Michigan. I'd say the biggest difference is that just the availability the number of older deer is much much lower, so you don't have, you know, a bunch of them to pick from, so you've got to be pretty you do have to hunt, and you know me, it's it's all about trying to manage to the growing that I've got so that I do have that AH structure because it's it's probably not going to be there on the neighbors. If you'd like to learn more and to see the properties that Tony currently has listed for sale, visit white Tail properties dot com. Backslash Hanson that's h A N s e N. This week with White Tail Institute, we're talking to consultant John Cooner about their special blend of Imperial white Tail Peer Attraction, which will have deer hammering your food plot all season. Pure Attracts is one of our annual Forge products that's designed for planning in the fall. Uh and I would not be overstating it to say that it has brought us a lot of customers. It's dynamite stuff. There are two main parts to it, and the advertising guys say it's a one to punch, but basically you've got early fall uh and primarily that's gonna be white tail white tail oats, which is an old variety that we were alerted to by some some researchers that was so they were doing a grain production trial and so attractive the deer that they had to had to pull it out of the trials and we tested it and also found it to be very cold tolerant. That's for early fall, moves into the later fall, and then uh, the other part of it is the white tail Institute Braskas, which come up very quickly and the deer will start hitting them. Uh, they'll get even sweeter with the first frosts of fall. So it's the one two punch that takes you from fall all the way through the dead of winter. It is. It is absolutely one of our our big sellers and one of the neat things. Other neat things besides it being extremely attracted deer is with the droughts we've been having in the fall, people have realized that the white tail oats oats plus will will come up and provide a good nurse crop with perennials. And for that reason, we've had folks asking us can we take the oates and take white tail Institute Braskas and plan them together. And the neat thing about this is you don't have to. We've already done it for are you, And we've are testing has shown that the ratios in that product are optimum to provide maximum attraction. If you'd like more info, on white Tail Institute's forage products. Check out white Tail institute dot com where they also carry some of the top supplements, attractants and herbicides available. Okay, we're gonna go over there to Kyle, right. So, so for those who couldn't hear, the question was how far ahead of time do you need to plan these trips? Especially if you're going to go somewherehere you need to draw a tach. I think that's a great point where we didn't really touch on that. Um, but there are a number of states that require, you know, several points and our ladder systems. I would definitely like January be like thinking about this, like try to read the regulations. Some of these states can be a little bit complicated. I was a little bit tougher. Um. So yeah, I think a year ahead of time, well ahead year ahead of time. Make sure you read through everything like that, because I would take several years of applying for points. I would for you know, I was an example. There's several other preference points states where you're not going to hunt that state year one. But Ohio and I believe Illinois talking all over the counter states, Michigan yep, yep, so nobody's coming there, so so well that takes is reading regulations, finding the stats to say, Okay, I want to go hunt Iowa, I want to do it with a bow, I want to hunt this part. Look at those stats and then say all right, I'm gonna do it in three years, I'm gonna do it in four years or whatever. That that magic number is anything you'd quickly had on that or yeah, there's a couple out West states too, if you if you if you want to go that route, that do require a couple of points even to get in general units that there's plenty of that over there that are over the counter as well, but Iowa's is the one that kind of comes to mind that you do have to play ahead. If you do your research. There's some zones where you can go more often. You don't need to wait for or five years, need to wait four or five years, So you just kind of you know there might be if you look in the record books, there might be less Boone and Crockett deer there, but a lot of that has to do with the habitat. There's less cover there, there's a few less deer. But if you can get on some ground or find some decent public ground tune these there's still great hunting. Yeah. Yeah, so this is a reverence to your Montana trip if you're in that campaign campaign situation. Yea, yeah, So sending control is an issue and it is a challenge. Um. You know, if a perfect situation, you've got a camp or something that has a shower or something because of course, and you want to do your best to minimize your owners. In my case, I didn't truck camping. So what I do is is is follow everything else I can to the t So I'm still all my clothing and stored in a send free tote outside of the truck, around of the truck or somewhere. I'm only getting changed when I'm actually about to go hunting. I'm spraying down with things. I use a couple of different ozone related products to help me out. I use that nosonics in field generator. UM. I know there's different bags he like sent crusher bags of different things like that where you can use utilize ozone to to take care of some of that bacteria. Um. So those are some options I also do kind of like a couple I don't know hill billy shower options. I guess either with scent free wipes, there's being out there's full wipe down in front of my truck, or I mean just a big old bucket of water over my head twice, you know, once rants, so get done. And it's not necessarily the most enjoyable shower, but try to do that a few times. I I had a guy I interviewed for an article and he lived in his truck on public land in Iowa for six weeks. I believe he he didn't he must quit his job. He wasn't married. He quit his day job in like Kansas or I don't know where he was, and went to this public land spot. And what he would do He would literally wait till big storms and would go out of this truck and just stand the rain and take showers. So maybe I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend it, but it's an option. Yeah, state, Yeah, that's a great question. And just for anyone who didn't hear her, the question was, what do you do in a situation where you've got vast amounts of area, like a western state, very different than maybe midwestern small parcels um and and so I've experienced some things like that, like in the Montana hunts we talked about um, and I've hunted other species out there a lot, and I think you just have to you can be overwhelmed by the vastness of it. So I think, at least in my opinion, I would try to zero in on a on a on an area that looks promising, either based off of your own intel or talking to people locally, talking to biologists in the area, talking to a game wardening there and they say, hey, you know what, oh, by the way they drainage or this river bottom tends that we sent tend to see a lot of deer, and just get a starting point and then say, okay, I know that this. Even though I've got this and this and this and this, all these different areas, you can really get lost in that. So I would try to pick a core area and then focus your time and learn that zone it down. Yeah. Um, but to your point, tremendous amounts of public land out west that is underutilized in a lot of cases, especially from the white tail front um. Unbelievable white tail opportunities in some of these Western states, amazing adventure, great deer numbers, great dear quality, the age structure in some of these states is like astounding, UM, and I had the most fun I've ever had my life out there. So hopefully we'll into the good story this year. Anything else mm hmm yeah. So in a lot of the low like the valley type situations out west, you what you are going to have cell phone service, but I have found myself in circumstances where I don't. And so because of because of the aforementioned communication issue I had with my wife last year, UM, I did get a GPS slash Satellite UM device that gives me UM the base of GPS functions. It gives me an s OS function, So if if things go badly and I fall out of my tree standard, if I'm el kunning and I break my leg or something, I can hit a button and that calls out to emergency responders. And then there's also a said like text message option, so even without cell phone service, I can text my wife or someone and say hey, I'm alive, I'm doing okay. UM that type of thing, and that specific device is the Garment in Reach Explorer UM that I just picked up recently, and so far it's been great. UM. I haven't somely been half a year, but so far, so good. Well, thank you, Mark, how about one more running for them? Thank you? And that's it our first podcast in front of a live audience, And like I said, it was just a really cool experience. One quick heads up though you might have noticed that in this conversation sation because we are limited by a strict time block that we had there, we had to keep things pretty high level. We were not able to dive into a lot of the topics I really would have liked to have covered with Andy. So with that being said, Andy has actually agreed to come on for another episode, which I'm pumped about, and we'll be diving much more deeply into all of Andy's tactics and deer hunting philosophies, whether that be on one of these d I Y trips, or on the properties he's hunting near his home in Michigan or all over the country. He's got a lot more share. I'm excited to be able to dive into that, and I know you're gonna find it very very interesting. So keeping out for that episode in the coming weeks. And with that said, we will wrap things up here with the big thanks to our partners at Sick Gear, Yetie Cooler's, Matthew's Archery, Maven Optics, White Tail Institute, North America, Trophy Ridge and Hunt Terra maps. And finally, of course, and most importantly, thank you all for listening. Thanks to those of you who were down in New Orleans and who are actually in the live audience. That was awesome and I hope you all enjoy this special episode. Hopefully we're gonna see many more of you at future live events, and until next time, stay wired to Hunt M M

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