00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan. In this episode number one to in the show, we're joined by David Draper, a freelance outdoor writer and wild game cooking experts, to discuss open country, white to hunting, and our favorite food, venison. All right, it's welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sick of Gear, and today we're joined by freelance writer Avid Hunter and serious wild game aficionado David Draper. You've likely seen him in the pages of Field and Stream and a number of other media outlets, and today David is going to be chatting with us about his experiences deer hunting in his home state of Nebraska and some of the other great states are great plains states, weren't talking about how to have success in that part of the country, And we're also going to talk a bit about venison and cooking wild game. So Dan, you're back in the fold. What do you think about this plan? I'm back. I'm all good man, I'm I'm I love talking about food. Okay, check. I love talking about hunting, especially when there's a possibility me and you could go to Nebraska to hunt where this guy lives. Yes, so it's kind of beneficial for for us. This is we might have to ask some questions that are purely beneficial to only us. I love those podcasts where it's just so you and making the new tips. We need as much help as we can get, so we gotta we gotta ask for it when we can. So. So leading into this, I guess Nebraska, right, David's from Nebraska. You hunted Nebraska two years ago. If you could sum up what you enjoyed about hunting Nebraska and like one sentence or a couple of sentences, how would you how would you do that? M did you enjoy it? Absolutely beautiful? I mean, the landscape goes on forever. The sun rises and sunsets were spectacular. And you know, um, while the game was there too. You know, I missed an antelope, UM saw. You know, the number of white tail there are low compared to the mule deers. So the mule deer, so the h I saw quite a few mule deer. I saw, um a handful of white tails, and a couple of the bucks were really quality bucks. But set the wild game aside. It's just in the state. I was in Sandhills region and it was you can get to the highest point relatively easy of an area and see forever. There's something about the plains that they don't they don't get as much hype as you know, other other ecosystems, like the mountains are on the ocean or whatever it might be. But something about being out there in this undulate, undulating plains, these hills of grass swaying in the wind like I I I love that. And when we're driving you over this past couple of a few weeks or a month or two ago, when I drove out here, you know, we went through north Dakota and eastern Montana, and every hill you go over, like you said, you can see so far. And the thing that always happens to me is whenever I'm in a place like that, I just can't help but sit there and think, what must this have looked like two years ago when Lewis and Clark came over here and there was a herd of literally a million buffalo over this next hill, Like, what must that have been like, yeah, it's nostalgic in a way. Oh yeah. I often times I'm in places like that. I just sit there and wish that I was born two years earlier to see that, to be out there. Man, it's it's a pretty special place, right right. You know, all we gotta do is wait for the DeLorean to come out, like the real version of it, and uh we can. We can hop back two d years just to check it out. Would you do that or would you be worried about the butterfly effect? I'd be worried about the butterfly effect. I would definitely be worried about the butterfly fact. That's a real thing. You know, you make what butter what? What's the thing if the butterfly flap swings on one side of the world, that might affect the other side or something like that. Right right, there's a there's actually this is going going to go nowhere. But it's actually a movie or a book. It's a science fiction novel. I started reading it didn't finish it about a guy who goes back in time to um I think I think it was to take a look at dinosaurs. But then when he came back, all he did was step out of the uh, out of his time cap floor, space ship whatever it was that he was in, and put one footprint on the ground. And he came back and it was completely different, Like the the sky wasn't blue, the um, the air had a different smell to it, the people looked different. It was it was crazy. That's pretty crazy. There was there was a movie about that too, not that specific store, but it was I think it's called The Butterfly Effect with I think Ashton Kutcher, one of the greatest actors of our generation. Yeah, exactly, that's awesome. Well, here we are, as usual, talking about something very much not related to what we're supposed to be talking about. But but really, it would be interesting to go back there, as long as we wouldn't change the course of humankind. Yeah, let's be serious a second. It would be really cool to time travel. It would be cool, slightly freaky, but very cool. Just imagine this. If you could time travel, would you go, I would go back to the exact days that you know, obviously you can't run into yourself, but go back to the exact days that your trail camera may have had that giant buck in front of it, or go to a period where you missed a deer and you just kind of, you know, give yourself a mulligan, so to speak. Well here, so take this, okay, If you could rewind time back to the day of your shipwreck encounter and you could change it and do it over again, would you or would you rather live the life that you did having learned from that experience. I don't think I could, because if I killed that deer, I would probably be some kind of famous hunting celebrity and I'd have to deal you know, like Notorious Big said, you know, more money, more problems. I'd probably yeah, that that's you're right, that that would happen. I wouldn't want to go back in time, you uh, well, to any encounter of mine or anything like that, the one the uh jawbreaker. Yeah, I'd like to say I would have liked to write that wrong. But to your point, you know, I think things happen for a reason somehow, and I probably learned something from that experience. And uh I suppose you know, you can't go back in time, so you just gotta move forward, right right, But I'm sure would be nice to be able to change a few things that if you knew it wasn't going to impact anything else. If you could just right that little wrong, fix that little thing, Uh sure would have been nice in the short term, that's for sure, right, you know? Or at least go back a day or two after you find out the winning numbers of a giant lottery, and then you can win a ton of money, and then you can buy a ton of land for the you know, come back to the president. You're only going back maybe a day or two, nothing really changes, and then you win that lottery and then guess what what you can hunt any time anywhere. That would be nice. Do you ever play that game with yourself where you like, imagine, like you look at the lottery that day or whatever it is, and you say, Okay, what would I do with two million dollars or something like that? Do you ever sit there and torture yourself with that idea? I play the game what would I do with an extra five? Yeah? I guess I'm right there too. Well, well, we I'll tell you what. It's been a while. It is. We're allowed a little bit of digression right right right now, now we can get professional again. Yes, So we're talking to David We're gonna give him a call in a minute. We're gonna talk about the great planes, we're gonna talk about deer hunting, we're gonna talk about some venison advice hopefully, which you know we've had Hank Shaw on in the past. He gave he gave us some great advice. But if I were to go and talk to your wife right now, and if I were to say, take Dan's venison cooking now versus one year ago, would she say you're any better? Have you learned anything? Or are you still as you were last year? Well, she could not answer that question because my wife is not a fan of dear meat unless it's mixed with like sloppy Joe sauce or something like that, you know what I mean. Like she's she's one of those people. It's embarrassing I have to go out in public with her, and you know, people like, hey, remember you know in these conversations at trade shows are around other hunting buddies like, yeah, my wife cooks one hell of a beef, you know, venison stew or something like that, and I'm like, yeah, mine too. But she doesn't reminder. This is a good reminder for me never to tell you about what we eat then in my household, right all venison, Yes, all venison. We actually have venison defrosting right now, and I think we're gonna have some some tasty venison pasta tonight. Yeah, so I'm looking forward to that. So do you what do you do? Then? Do you just have to make like your own venison meal and then your wife eats something different? Or do you how do you handle that? So there's days when um, I call it first supper and uh, that's when I cook my own venison and then I, um just eat it. Then I have a second supper what she cooks. So that's awesome. It's like a it's like a full core. It's like a meat appetizer. Basically, Dude, that is the best idea I've heard in a long time. I need to start having meat appetizers. It also made me think of I'm I'm such a nerd that I can quote Lord of the Rings, but I'm going to there's a part where the Hobbits are walking down the trail and they're talking about being hungry and someone that where we already at breakfast and then the guys like what about second breakfast? And lunchtime, supper, dinner, afternoon snack. Yeah, and with that we should probably we should probably wrap it up. I can't believe this is as successful of a podcast as it actually is, because there's times where even I go back to listen to it and I'm just like, oh, boy, who puts up with this? It really is remarkable. I thank you everyone for for somehow, for somehow dealing with this weekend and week out. Like you said, it's kind of kind of crazy. And I'll offer one more disclaimer that I just was reminded of just now. Um if totally off topic, but that's what we do. If for some reason, the audio on my side sounds a little weird, Dan, I don't know if you can tell or not, but it's kind of echo way over here. It's because I'm recording today in our next episode in the basement of Sick of Gears World headquarters name drop, I'm recording in the corporate headquarters of Nine Fingers Studios. So well, that sounds pretty fancy too, Yeah it is. I wish I had a better reason for why I'm doing it, but it's because everywhere I go has horrible Internet, like the house we have here. In Montana. We are now in Bosa, Montana for the rest of the month. The internet there is horrible. I tried to rent office spaces in different places in town. I can't find anything that will let me in. So I had to like beg borrow and steal my way into SICKA to to use their basement. So it works and it's got high speed internet. So I'm a happy man. Yeah, exactly. So I appreciate their generosity with their space. And I suppose before we get David on the line, we should take a quick break for a word from Sick of Gear. They sponsor of this podcast and now the home of the temporary recording studio. So let's do that real fast and then we'll get Day a call. So, as we do every week, we've got a sickst story, but today's story is a little different as it's just a preview of a larger sickkest story that comes from myself actually and Randy Newberg. Now, as many of you know, Randy Newburgh is an avid user of Sick of Gear products, and he's the host of the Fresh Tracks TV show and Sportsman Channel and the host of the Hunt Talk radio podcast and last week I actually got to be a guest on that podcast, So today I wanted to share you just a little snippet of that conversation, which is just jam packed with so many interesting stories that took place while using sick a gear, and then I encourage you, after listening to this episode to check out my full conversation with Randy. So here we are talking about the allure of one of my more recent addictions, elk hunting. I mean, I've never hunted white tales where I've smelled that rank kind of boy. And a lot of times I'll turn to my camera guy and I'll tap my nose. I'm like, you smell that, and they nod their head and you know that, all of a sudden, I'm getting like ting. I think that's another part of the allure of elk cunning is it is so many of your senses. It is not just visual, it's it's everything. It truly is everything. Now, on my own Elk cunning trips while enjoying that stench of elk, I've come to love the sick and in jacket. It's my go to system for those hunts. So if you like to learn more about sick of Gear, visit Sick of Gear dot com and you can listen to that entire conversation with Randy at the Hunt Talk Radio podcast on iTunes or anywhere else that you like to find your podcast. So now let's get back to this podcast in our interview with David Draper. All right with us. Now on the line is David Draper. Welcome to the show. David. Hey, guys, thanks for having me. I'm excited. I'm a big fan of Wire to Hunt and I'm I'm pleased that you asked me to join him. Well, we're pleased that you agreed. Sometimes they say no, so I can't believe someone would say no, you know. Actually, yeah, Dan, kid, I'm actually surprised more people don't say no. I don't think I have gotten to know yet, but I have gotten some like just crickets. They never respond, So yeah, exactly exactly, So we'll deal with that ass we do. But we uh, gosh, we're already off to good start today. Before you get on me and Dan, we're off topic laughing about all sorts of goofy things. So we're gonna try to stay on topic and talk hunting like we're supposed to hear. On that show, and I guess with that being said, Dave, you know, for those who aren't familiar with you, or maybe haven't seen your work in print, could you just tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do in relation to the outdoor world. Yeah? Sure, so. Um, I live in western Nebraska, near the headquarters of Cabella's, where I actually worked for twelve years. I was a corporate communication specialist. They're a great company to work for. Had a great time, but the cubicle walls started getting a little close and decided to break out on my own and became a freelance writer six and a half years ago. Um. You'll probably see most of my work in film Stream, where I write the Wild Chef blog, and I also contribute to the magazine Right for Peterson. Sounding as a freelancer all right for anybody that will pay me is my line. As you'll see my stuff in most outdoor magazines covering all sorts of hunting topics, from from just general hunting tips to to how to cook wild games. So um, wild games probably my specialty, but you know, I hunt everything big time, waterfowl hunter, deer hunter, elk hunter, turkey hunter, so um, I covered try to cover all the topics that are out there. That's awesome. Now I gotta I gotta share with you that Dan over here is pretty jealous of you because he has a certain affinity for that part of the country Western Nebraska, Right Dan, I do? I do. I went out there two years ago and hunted in the sandhills, uh north of Ogalala. Oh wow? Yeah, yeah, so you're not very far from me. That's like a probably an hour and a half north Ogala. And I agreed. The sand deels are one of my favorite places in the world. And I traveled and hunted around the world and it's hard to beat that neck of the woods. So have you hunted mule deer over there or white tails or what are you hunting that part of the country. Yeah, I'm I'm primarily I should say I I'm hunt lots of I love hunting mule deer um, and that's kind of what we have in our neck of the woods. And um, I'm a fan of a family farmer, so that's kind of what we have where I live as well. White tails are kind of on the river bottoms around here, though we do get some open country. White tails too, which I enjoy hunting them as well, but mules here mostly. But it's funny because where I live, it's really you know, it's half and half. There's there's both fantom, there's both animals there, so it's I kind of and and the top. The tags are usually good for a buck of either sex or either species, depending if you're not in a mule of dear conservation area. So so what do you think is which is the harder dear to hunt? And now this is you're in a spot with has both mule deer white tail, which is the trickier one. Wow, that's a that's a tough question. I like to defend my mule here because everyone thinks, you know, mule deer big box are dumb and they'll stop and look back and all these reasons. But I don't know, that's a tough question. Mark. I love hunting mule deer, but white tails are smart, and man are they tough to hunt. So I'm going to give the not to white tails, as though it hurts me a little bit to do so well, it made us feel better, So thank you, there's no problem. But you know, I just I really think it's depending on where you're at. But open country white tail is so much different than a white tail where in your guys just neck of the woods, or or you hunt them differently anyway, it's it's it's just it's just when I whenever I have to go sit in a tree somewhere, it's a strange, strange thing for me. So, so tell us about open country white tail hunting then, you know, because that's not something I've done a whole lot of, although this year I'm going to. Um, you know what, what does make it so different? Uh? You know, it depends on how you on. I mean, you can hunt them and you can obviously put a blind up or or find the trees, uh that there are many of them of the woods to hunt, But really it's a sponsored top affair a lot of time, or an intercept affair and just kind of figure out what they're key and on. Obviously they're still really big on agricultural fields if they're there in water sources, two very big things out here. Um, in open country, but really it's just surprising when you find white tails where you wouldn't think so, I mean, you can look like there's no cover for miles and miles around you and you step on a tall piece of grass in a big will can bust them out of there. It's it's just a strange, strange thing. Yeah, I can. I can imagine. I'm slowly starting to figure that out. Like you know, as you know, I'm out here in Montana right now, and I'm starting to scout for a trip. But I'm gonna be taking in September to hunt here. And already I'm looking around, like where am I going to hunt these deer? Like where there's nowhere I'm putting up the tree stand, that's for sure in some of these spots at least. So how do you go about, you know, when you're starting a hunt like that, how do you start that process and you're scouting? I mean, are you just standing somewhere watching for a while or what's your what's your kind? Yeah? That that's one of the one of the benefits open country hunting is that you can you can generally see deer although they're sneaking, and then you think and they use the contours of the land, but you have such open country to stand. A good pair of binoculars are responding scope and the night spinning the behind the windshield of your truck. It's it's really the best way to go about it. You know, where I lived, there section roads, so about every mile there's a dirt road. Um. So you just do a lot of drive and and just look for him. And you know, look in spots where there's some crp ever, where there's tall grass, or in a bandoned farmstead, or someplace where there's a little bit of cover. Obviously, white tails are still very cover relevant, or they used cover a lot. So so anywhere you can find some cover in that seemingly open country, you're probably gonna find a deer. I mean, the biggest year I've ever seen in my life on the hoof. Um, I kicked up while I was finding pheasants on a little tiny corner of CRP grass in the middle of nowhere in southeast Nebraska. I mean, the first south sent from the basket. It's it's really just surprising. I had a shocking in my hand and I was walking a tiny spotted grass hoping to kick up a rooster, and I kicked up a giant buck. Wow. It is funny sometimes the stuff they choose to hold up, and it's it's surprising. Yeah, and it's surprising that a deer can hide in that. I mean, I mean that grass I was walking. I guess it was waist tight, so a deer can laid down into scept here. But I mean I had most stepped on behind before he even got up, and I'm sure you knew I was there before then, but he just he just wanted to hold tight until I have obviously had to kick him out of his bed practically. Now, for some of these white tails, when you when you are white tail hunting, are you try spotting stalks on the white tails too, or is that just the mules that you try stalking on. You know, if the covers right or the terrains right, if they're in some pretty broken country, I'll try it. I'm not successful very often, if at all, um, But for me it becomes more of a and even for meals it becomes more of an interceptive fair. Um if you can figure out their pattern, or if there's spots, like if there's some big open country and you see it there, maybe some tall grass bedded and you see the banded farmstead, and you know, far away away, they relate to those landmarks like a human would. And so if you can figure out where they're gonna go, or if there's a water tank somewhere that you know that you can get between them and hopefully they walk by. I mean, it's the same, it's a it's a similar thing to sit in the tree stand. It's just you don't have a tree to treat us it and you have to get punked in the ground or well put up a ground line and hopefully get used to it in time. Do you got do you use any trail cameras, like say preseason or during the season to try to maybe in a funnel or a pinch point too, I guess look for deer that you want to shoot. Yeah, yeah, definitely. If you're hunting in the same land a lot, you kind of figure out the patterns and like you said, there's pinch points, there's funnels, there's a tulio or a draw or even just a real low point that they'll use, irrigation ditch. You'll find some crossing points there. You know they're creatures have had, but they'll use the same crossing point. And yeah, trail camp is great for that. I also, you know, when when I start hunting pheasants in late October, I'll start seeing some rugs by then, and and so I'll put a trail camp. It could be a little a little short stretch of trees and there'll be one tree and then it's trash. I'll try to put a trail came up there, just to see what's there. Um, it might not be able to hunt it, but it's always good to know when there's deer in the area and what kind of deer they are? Speaking speaking of the you know, what quality of deer there are? You know, I feel like a lot of the state's near where you're at, like Iowa or Kansas, right they get a lot of hype for their great, big white tails. But Nebraska is not too bad either, isn't There's no deer in Nebraska. There was a long Please that's my that's my standard line when people ask me about deer hunting in a bras. But no, you know, it's funny. Right now today I'm writing a story talk to You in White Sail States for Bohney World Magazine, And as much as it pains me to do it, I'm gonna write Nebraska pretty high. It's it is. I don't think it's a sleeper state anymore. People are figuring it out and they know there's good white tails here. But it can be a great state. I mean it doesn't have there's a cachet of Iowa or Kansas or Missouri, but it can be a really good state. That the problem with white tail hunting in Nebraska is white killer primarily found on private land. There's not a lot of public way and percentage wise in Nebraska, and so it's definitely a pay to play deal, um getting on land or if you're lucky enough to get on some land that you can knock on the door on. But it's it is tough. That's the hardest part of Nebraska when it comes to white tails. Yeah. So so you kind of intrigued me there with this article you're working on. Can you share with us some of the other states that are in your top town Um, yeah, it's probably can and and it's it's it's that's such a hard thing with somebody when I when the ender comments that I want you to write the top ten white tail states, that is a hard thing to do because who do you leave out and who do you put in? Um, so I'll give you a couple of like put in that maybe you might not think, and maybe you will think. I put in Ohio. In Ohio has been a great state for white fields, but it's obviously been on the down train in the past years. But I think it has great potential, so it actually cracked the top ten that's on there. Wisconsin another one that's been tough lately, but I think I'm going to include it as well because it's still has potential. I mean, I think kill one of three hundreds some thousand year a year, so there's always potential for a good deer there. Um. And then and then all that your major players is Kansas, Iowa can talk, He's gonna be in there. Um. I think there's some Southeast states that needed to get overlook the Mississippi is a great state, but Man, George and Arkansas have some really good numbers as well. If you look at the numbers hard, so you know they're they're age class of bucks in the Southeast is creeping up there. And yeah, there are smaller body dear, but I think there's some great there. So that's that's kind of something I'm looking at. I'm still really narrowed down. It's so hard when you write that list to write pen and then saying I'm done, because there's always a great state that you're going to leave out. Oh yeah, I actually did an article like that for North American whitetail like three years ago, and um, but it was the top twenty I think that one was the top twenty d I Y states, and then one was just like the top twenty trophy Buck states or something like that. And you know, to your point, it's really tough because a lot of that stuff is subjective, right, You're just kind of comparing apples to oranges, or you know, when you do try to get into the details. You know, I tried to pull all sorts of you know, Boon and Crockett and Poping Young rankings, and I looked at state data, and I looked at public land, and I looked at average lease rates and all this different stuff, and you can just get so bogged down in it, and no matter what you do, someone's going to complain. I knew, I got all sorts of time, and it's like, you're an idiot, Why did you put this one over there? On? Yeah, I used there's a couple of lines I used in here. I said, you know, on every list there needs to be an outlier for no other reason to get hunter or something to argue about my Ohio opener and then my Wisconsin owners. Is fact, is any discussion about Wisconsins, dear heard, is going to start an argument that sounds like so and so. Yeah, it's like you said, if you can look at numbers. I've been looking at the numbers for the past week until my eyes, just trying to figure out where to put what states. And then you let a couple of sleeper states too. So let me ask you guys a question. What what do you think are the sleeper states for white tales? White tales the states that maybe people don't think about all right, Um, let me see or don't you want to tell me? Those are my secrets? Um, you know that's why you gotta keep it a sleeper. Yeah, I think you know. For me, when I was going about going through that list, the states that kind of stuck out to me is as sleepers a little bit. We're actually to your point. You mentioned a few of those southeastern states really have good age structures. Um, because they've been practicing some form of quality deer management or age management a little bit longer than some places. So there's decent age structure. And then I think at the Western States, like as you start getting into the Dakotas or Monte in Wyoming, from what I see in here, I mean there's, uh, there's a lot of quality opportunities out there. For me. That's kind of what I was thinking. How about you dying kind of similar thoughts. Yeah, I would. I would say Dakota's as a sleeper states, just and that's only from what guys are telling me, uh you know, you know, chit chatting on social media and getting emails from guys and even I hate to say it, but I probably would agree with you in uh in Nebraska as well, some of the uh what some of the guys are telling me and sharing stories with me. Now, the numbers aren't there, but the quality, there's quality there. Yeah, that's the thing about those. And I agree. I think the Western States are probably I don't know if it's a secret, but I think those are sleepers Montana for sure, in Wyoming for sure, and and the Dakotas. You know, the Dakota is kind of got hammered with some c w D a couple years ago. But that's the thing about them. People look at and they go, well, they don't kill that many white tales. Well, yeah they don't. But if you look at the white tales, some guys are killing. There's some studs coming out of there. And the other thing to consider is that in those states, yeah, they're not killing that many deer, but that's because there's not that many hunters, you know what, compared to how many people. You know, there's nine hundred thousand hunters in Michigan, Well of course we're gonna kill four hundred thousand deer. Well when you look at this hunters or whatever it is in North Dakota, well, yeah, we're gonna have different numbers. Yeah, exactly. I think people don't kind of look at the numbers as completely as they should. They just look at one number and go, I don't kill that many deer. Well okay, but the percentage wise maybe that maybe the percentages are there. So now I actually this is no joke. I actually had a conversation today with uh, a wildlife biologist in Nebraska, UM talking about the area that me and Mark might hunt this year, and he was he was telling me that as far as mule deer are concerned, uh, they are. They had an awesome two years in a row now of fawn recruitment and um the average age he said of mule deer buck was three years old. And then he and he didn't really say anything about buck doe ratios, but the numbers are definitely going up for mule deer and white tail as well. So he didn't really tell me anything about the actual um age class of harvested white tails, but it's on the up and up, so that can help support some of that thought as well. Yeah, yeah, and I would, I would agree with him, and it wouldn't have any point argus. And I really think there's some really good meal timing to be had here in the next year's And I think, you know, it's it's funny we had that that CW D andelve with everyone every now and else had it. You were out here, sorry, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, not thinking it's too late and afternoon, but yeah, he in twelve like most states had, and and it was. It was funny. The deer on the we had heard it was too big already, I think, and I think so I think that it's probably not a bad thing. I mean, it's a bad thing. Obviously, it did need to have heard reduction, but it's amazing the big bucks that have been killed. Last year, I saw more big deer killed, why killing deer than I've seen in a long time. Not as many people were killing bucks, but the guys that killed bucks killed really really good bucks here in the resket. And I don't know what to attribute that to other than the fact those are deer that survived that that and then there was less hunter. Um. I don't want to say activity in the next couple of years, but I think life and sales were probably down a bit because people were scared off by the by the h D and then the deer numbers. So man, it was it was a great year last year. I hope that continues in well, you know, it's funny you mentioned that, because that was kind of one of my like hypotheses after the big h D I've breaking two thousand and twelve, was that, you know, okay, three years from now or four years from now, we're going to see some great deer because the deer that survived now are living in a landscape with much less competition for food, so you know, they had great access to nutrition now compared to maybe when they had you know, four bucks around them. Now they only had one other bucker, one other deer around them, so there's a greater access to food. Um, you know, some of those deer, the ones that did survive, we're probably I don't know if this is true enough, but maybe they're in some way slightly predisposition to be healthier, dear because they were able to make it through that. So genetics might be you know, improved as those deer breed. I don't know. I think, like you said, these this next year or two and last year, I think hopefully're going to be fruitful years. Um. The silver lining to the cloud that was the two thousand and twelve h D. Yeah, and I don't wonder if maybe with reduced herd numbers, with people's reduced stone numbers, maybe those bigger bucks were moving more leading to more encounters. Um, you know they're not. They didn't. They had to move farther to find those because the dose were I mean that was really the numbers are really hammered out here, and so maybe that's what it was to those those bucks have to go farther to find a dough and there's a better chance of intercept them. That's great point I just threw that. I just made I just made that up just now while we were talking about it, and don dog you should you should write an article about it and become I think, I think, thank you guys for making my job easier. It's the least we could do. But it really is such a good point, and it's um you know, it's something that is so commonly misunderstood I think is that so many people think the more doughs I have, the better my hunting is going to be during the ruck because you think if I got tons of doughs, will be tons of bucks coming in. But to your point, lots of times having a little bit lower dough population will be better because those bucks have to move around more. There's you know, there's more competition for fewer doughs, so they have to be more active, they have to be searching more, they have to be a little bit more aggressive with other bucks. That kind of makes for the more interesting and exciting hunt. Yeah, I think you're right on that. We we get hung up. I'm thinking higher deer numbers are better and that might not actually be true. So so so speaking of that of you know, the better hunt or where the the different types of situations, different areas. Given you know what you're doing now, I imagine that you've got to deer hunt allowed different places. Where's your favorite place to deer hunt? It will always be at home, you know. Yeah. I had access to some really good breaks just just south of the North Platte River here near me. That was just some phenomenal hunting and just the top bounding. I like, I would park my truck at the gate and walk all day long and sit and glass and it was just fun. Um. But you know, to your point, I've been Illinois several times, and it's great. I've never killed a deer that I just said. I did kill one day that, but I've never killed a really great deer. They're like you're supposed to do so though, some of those states get overhyped and it's I'm so excited about the hunt and then I go and I'm like a man, that's you gotta remember a lot of us this hype. But always a great state, you know, Kansas is a great state. Um hunting Missouri several times. I love South Dakota because it's kind of like I'm hunting at home, similar territory. I had the Pine Ride Reservation last year and killed the killed probably my best buck. Um, and it's it's it was similar hunting to what I do where you're where you're hunting that open country and that's kind of what I love. So can you tell us about that hunt, that good buck you took last year on? Yeah? Yeah, and I can tell you about it. I don't know. I want to tell you the true story because I missed two other bucks before it was it was it was a rifle hunt. I was with my friend Neil Davies from Hornity and one of his Buddi's Travisprayberd from the Pine Ridge Reservation up there, and we were hunting and man, I don't know, I had the yips or something, you know, golfers gets the yes, there's a rifle hunt. But man, I just I don't know what I did on those other two bucks. But then I made a spectacular shot on the on the buck I killed late in the day. Um, I had three days to hunt, but in reality, my girlfriend's birthday was the next day, so I kind of had one day to because she she was fine with me not being home for a birthday, she said, but you still want to be there. So, um, that was great. That's exactly I know, and I know, and it's it's a trap, and I think I wanted because I actually killed the buck late in the day. I mean, there wasn't much sunlight left at all. We were we were cruising along a trail road on top of a ridge and spotted a buck, actually spotted the dough first, but she was acting funny, so he thought there was a buck there, and I kind of got set up, and sure enough he came out of his fresh pile. I missed him with the first shot, but he was so intent on that dough that I hit him what I what turned out to be a perfect shot. On the second shot, I hit him and he ran. I wasn't real sure that I hit him or hit him good, and so somehow on the run, I hit him with a second perfect shot, probably the best shot I've ever made my life on the third shot and killed him. So, I mean, he was dead after that. We turned to find out the first shot punctured his lungs. Second shot was just not too far off that so so but yeah, and just got to put the tape to him. But he's just a nice buck, beautiful buck. That's with a good friend and and uh and a new good friend shot spread bird at the pine at dress. He was such a nice guy. Just just an enjoyable hunt that And for me, that's a lot of it. You know, I don't. I don't take most of my animals. I've killed three beautiful help in my life. I've never put a tape on any of them. It's experience for me. It's it's that's more of it than the inches to me. I mean, it's just just my don't. I don't mind the guy. And I kind of wish I had mail because people ask me about it and I'm like, God, I don't know, really know, but because it's be nice to have that information. But but it's just so that it was just a really fun hunt with Neil and Travis and and just hunting the way I enjoyed a hunt. You know, I have a hard just the way I was raised. I think I have a hard time sitting in the tree waiting for a deer to come by. I do it every here, I don't. She stands here in Nebraska too, for white tails um down by Paxton. But it's not the funnest way to hunt for me. It definitely is an acquired taste. I think. I think a lot of I hear from a lot of Western guys who who kind of to your point, they have a hard time with it or they struggle with it. Um. But I guess if you're raised on it's all, you know, there's a certain something special about sitting there in the The necessity of learning patients has taught us an important virtue. I think, maybe I think. And it's funny. As I've gotten older, I like it a lot more. I I used to just hate it. I do it just kind of out of necessity, you know. You know, if I wanted to kill some does for the freezer, I do it. But I didn't like it. But now that I'm getting older, I enjoy it a lot more. If you see so much wildlife when you're sitting in the tree, you know, it's not just about a deer walking about. You'll see Kyle's come by, and bobcats and the and the birds, the wildlife. It's it's really a cool way to hunt. It's just hard for me to slow down and take it all in. Yeah, it's kind of funny you mentioned that I was just recently thinking about this. You know, there's some certain types of hobbies or activities that completely engage you so much that you can't think about anything else at all while you're doing it. You know, I was thinking, in this case it was fly fishing. I was, you know, thinking about this past summer fly fishing, and you could be there four hours and because you need at least. When I'm fly fishing, I'm thinking about where I'm going to put the cast, I'm think about how I'm going to present it, I'm mending the line, I'm thinking maybe the entire time, I'm engaged four hours past, and I'm like, holy smokes, where the time go. So there's something really cool about an activity like that, which I kind of would compare to like Western hunting, where you're stalking elk or meal there or something that you're engaged the entire time, and there's something really cool about that. But then there's also something really cool about an activity like deer hunting from a tree stand, where you're forced to sit and wait and think and pay attention to all these little details and things that you pass by if you were hiking through, but when you have time, they're just to sit and let things come to you, you have a whole different set of experiences and opportunity to reflect and stuff. So there's something really cool about both of those two different things that I don't I kind of like both in their own unique way. Yeah, I have to agree. I think I've learned more about deer hunting when I'm in a tree stands and when I'm spotting stalking, because you have that time to sit and think and and see deer like activity. Like maybe you don't have to stand quite in the right spotet, but you see a lot of deer and you have to figure out your head, Okay, why are they using that spot? And how can I get my tree stand there? By the motmoeth and stuff like that. I mean, I have learned way more about deer hunting, mus damn than I have sitting on a ridge top trying to figure out, you know, why they don't know what kills within my you know, five miles I could see. Yeah, oh yeah, I think we've all probably been in some kind of situation like that, whether it being a hill or sitting in the tree looking thirty yards and wondering how come I haven't seen anything? Yeah, you can all relate to the I gotta, I got a strategy question for you. And the reason I ask is because, like I said, it's purely for for me, because there's a chance that we're going we're going out in uh out to Nebraska to hunt this uh this fall. In regards to you know, scouting, let's say you got like four or five days to to hunt, and maybe even the less amount of time. How how much time is spent in the truck scouting as opposed to scouting outside of the truck, like climbing to a higher, higher vantage point or going in a little deeper um. That kind of depends on the terre. And if you're in the sandills, i'd say there's a little bit of time spit in the truck. Um, But you're not gonna have a lot of opportunity to drive into some of that church or you're not gonna want to because you're gonna be in prime deer country everywhere you drive. But the beauty is a lot of the time and those branches that you're hunting, those animals are more used to trucks than they aren't guys on feet, So if they see a truck, they're like, oh, that's the rancher. I see that truck all the time, or I see a truck on time if it's a human on a foot. They don't see human on foot on their feet very often, and so when they see what they freak out, So that you kind of have to balance that a little bit with with the terrain you're hunting. Um, So I don't know if I could give your percentage. You just kind of have to to play your odds a little bit, but definitely, you know it's it's about, especially the sand hills, getting in the highest hill you can find and blast and and then work your way to the next hill. And because because those there's a plenty part about those stand deals is that they're so choppy in places where you could be within a half a mile of the deer. You can see for three miles, but you can be within a half mile there and never know he's there just because of the land still chop and then you go to the next deal and your busting out, so um, you've got to be really careful. I don almost say that a vehicle is typically preferred if you can get in there, if there's a if there's a rance road you can drive on that sort of stuff because just because the animals are used to that. Now, what about um like your your food to betting, and with there not being a lot of trees, you know, obviously there's less trees in in Nebraska. Um, and in the county that in the county that I hunt, there are there are no there's no running water, there's no crips. So what kind of what kind of I guess terrain features should one be looking for? And this doesn't necessarily have to be in reference to just Nebraska, but in all open lands style of hunts. What kind of rain features should we be looking for, whether it's for you know, for movement or forbetting. Yeah, so that's a that's a great question. And the hills are gonna be choppy. Like I said, one thing I would key on big time, especially if you don't have any running water is stock takes there. If there's gonna be there's gonna be some sort of water. Those those animals have to water. I mean, they do get a lot of water from dew, but out here there's not a lot of dew in the morning, So it's dry country. It's aired. We get less than twenty inches of rainy year. Where you're hunting, they probably get sixteen to ten and just a rainy year if it's before I think or if I would imagine it is. It's not far from me and that's about what we get. So there's not a lot of most of you to be had. So I would find if you can get on Google Maps, or if the rancher or the farmer, or even on public land because a lot of that land is turned out for grazings, so there's there's wind nails on it. I would key in on those huge Those are your spotsors where every every year in the neighborhood is gonna go to that spot, even if they're not thirsty, the bucks are gonna go there to see if a dose been there. It's it's almost like a signpost, like a scraper rug would be. So that's what I would key in on um and then just try to find travel corridors um how they're using they're gonna they're not gonna walk over the top of the highest hill. They're gonna cut across. If they're gonna use saddles. It's kind of like mountain hunting, you know, use those contours to stay hidden as they move. Thank you very much, no problem. I hope that works for you though, so gosh, I hope so too, Dan. You need some redemption from last time, right, right, I missed an antelope last year, you know, my first, my first ever a right, not last year or two years ago. But you know, you go out there and I'm I'm iowan, right, so I'm a tree stand hunter. U. So you go out there and you're all I knew was don't skyline yourself and move you know, glass, then move glass, then move But still, like you said, I was bumping, I was bumping deer out of certain areas or um. I would be walking to a point where I didn't think I was skyline, but I kept having to remember there's no trees to block block me. So yeah, I was skylined from some angle, maybe not the angle that I thought it was. Yeah. And then and they can, like I said, they don't see humans very often outside their vehicles, so when they see someone on foot, then they freaked out and they would be in the next county quick antlope in the same way. So and one thing about one thing, I guess i'll I'll touch on And I don't know how or why you why you missed. But um, distances are weird out here. People that people didn't hunt heavy cover, heavery, timber get a little freaked out about distance when they're out here. Everything is farther than you think. Um or sometimes I mean it's just it's an optical illusion. I mean, I've missed antelope with my boat that I thought were half as close as they were, um, if I didn't have time to arrange them. So I would say, if you, if you come back out next year trying to bring a decoy, because there's nothing better than decoy and antelopes right now? Have you gonna buy one? Have you ever tried the decoy helmet? Have you seen that? I have not. I have not tried to decoy, but I see it and I don't know that i'd use it or not. I'll tell you a quick story about my girlfriends first antalope. She killed one last October with her muzzleloader. September with her muzzleloader. UM, and we can use uh the muzzleader season in the basket her handlot falls right in the peak of the helope up. So decoing is a phenomenal. I don't we use it on land that I not only went on obviously with a with a firearm as the unloader, but still you don't want guys shooting it set. But we we endo the day we saw about cruising along the hillside and we skirted around to get to him in front of him, and he moved a little faster, we thought, and we picked our head up and we didn't have an antelope hat on. We didn't. Just picked our head up and he saw us, and he came to fourteen yards on a dead sprint. I decided to put the decoy up. It was useless. I threw it behind me and ducked, and basically my girlfriend killed him when he kind of skirted us with my fourteen yards. He freaked out about as bad as we did, and she killed him at fifty yards. So um, So, I don't think you need the deco helmet peak as long as they don't see your whole body. Antelope are so curious that will come to it. I mean, especially in the rut, especially if they have does and there's been bucks challenging them, little bucks challenging them. Man, it's there's nothing more exciting. It's it's one of my favorite things to do. Well, I'll tell you what whether we do mule deer hunting or analope hunting or whatever we do. If we get out there, Dan, I'm making you wear a decoy helmet and you're gonna run around on all fours and I'm going to see if we can get a deer to come run enough to you. How about that. I'll do it, I'll do it. It's funny. I remember reading that. I think it was even a Chuck Adams article about hunting a sit in black tail on code yak because they were wearing uh some sort of deer deer hasts on there. It's because the deer they're gettingly curious. My problem with that is there's criticially's code. Yeah, you don't want to decoy that of no? Oh man, Yeah, that's that would make for quite an experience, that's for sure. So so, Dame, I want to pivot really quick here before we have to let you go, because I want to make sure we talk about wild game cooking. Like you mentioned, you contribute to the wild Chef blog right on the Field and Stream website. You've done a lot of that kind of writing, So I want to make sure we pick your brain a little bit about that um okay, So I guess first, what is your favorite way to cook venison, like your go to the best way if you had to pick one, that's a tough one. That's really hard to say. I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you, and it's there's a it's there's a bandwagon now. But I was doing it before it was cool and I was a hipster. I was doing it pot it was cool. Shanks on shanks on any deer, elk, candlope, anything are the best cut. I almost put him over a backstrap a new day of the week and people will rape me out with the cold for it. But the shanks slow cooked with like some Chipotle's and some Mexican spices. I'm a huge Southwestern flavors guy. I love text Max, I love Tothwestern food. Green chilis, so I'm gonna say that, and then wrapping it towards you just like like almost like make a green chili and then smother bree does with it, or just some shredded up like that. That's my favorite. I don't know, it's not fancy, it's kind of peasant food, but man, do I love just some shredded shrink shanks with some green chili. It's it's my favorite art man. Now, a lot of guys they don't even save their shanks though, right, how do you know? They they throw it out. It drives me crazy, right, So so for those guys, and I have to admit I have done that on occasion and I shouldn't. Um, I'm gonna tell you I used to do it. I did it for years until I figured out if you just slow cooking their doorst So how how do you go about doing that? Hey? How should you be like butchering it? And to save it in the right way, to freeze it up in the right way, and then how do you go about actually, you know, using it? Okay, so you know we all know the shank is, so just cut off that fore leg where this cut off the fore leg, and then you'll have the shank will be the next cut. I take a sauce all um and cut off above the knuckle on each end. So I have a bone on a white tail, probably trying to visit it in my head, six to seven inch bone that's got some meat wrapped around it, and it looks like it's full of tandon and the silver and it is. But that's gonna cook away on a on a on a deer sized animal, either whether it be a white tail or an antelope or probably even a mule deer. I would actually leave them whole, so it's a whole shank um. A lot of guys will cut them into about two inch sections with the saws all or a bone sauce um and then you know, just wrapping preaches that way. If you're gonna cook it right away, you want to brave it. I mean, there's two techniques you need to know as a wild game cook cotton fast on the grill or in a hotcast and skillet for steaks. You know that you don't want to overcook that or slow and low, and that's brazing. It's kind of the same thing you're doing in the crop pot. You're you're cooking into two hundred fifty two hundred seventy five degree up and in a covered pot with a little bit of moisture, and that that silver skin and those tendons just melt away and there's and actually it makes it better because that melts into like almost just like a gelatinous thick or sauce. It makes it even better. So so that's what you do with your shanks. You know a lot of guys will cut them off and grind it for jerky. That's fine too. You want to have a good grinder to cut through all that silver skin, though, And if you gonna try to do it with a nice it's it's a waste of time. It's better just to let that stuff cook away and and and use that as a flavor. Yeah. Earlier, I kind of embarrassingly will admit that I don't know, like ten years ago or a long time ago, when I was trying to deal with one of my own dear by myself for the first time. I remember getting to the shank and I was like, you know, I'm just gonna try to like cut out each tiny little sliver that I can without silver skin. So I was in there trying to pull out little tiny pieces between tendons. It was a disaster. So I'm the same way. I'm I'm a meat miser. I really, I mean I took I butchered test as antelope last year, and then I took an animal if I killed myoming a couple of days later to a butcher, and I got half as much meat from the book. There and that's not to say all butchers are bad, but you know they're doing things quickly. They're not going to take time. Man, it takes me so long to butcher my own animals. I do it all myself, but because I want every last ance of meat on there, and I got tired of and they're spending a ton of time on those shanks just and then not getting any deep because you cut away one came and then there's another one there, another piece of still skin, or or throw them away. I just because like, man, this is good need I can't be I can't be wasting it. What do I need to do with this? So I, you know, educated myself and and learned that, hey, you just gotta cook them right. Yeah. So, so speaking of you know, breaking your animal down and butchering it and all that kind of stuff. Given you know, all the different articles you've done in this and the different people I imagine you've talked to, is there any particular common mistakes that you hear that most hunters are making when it comes to that processing part of the process. Um, I don't know if there's common mistakes. There's so many different ways to do it. My biggest thing was it say just take your time. And I think a lot of guys they do it themselves and they like the idea of doing yourself, but they hate the drudgery. So once they start doing it, they just go, I gotta get this done. I got you know, footballs on or something's going on, or I gotta watch my kids talking. I gotta get this tone. And they take way too much time. I mean, they do it too quickly. They don't take enough time. So that's my biggest suggestion. Just set aside a day to to butcher and do it right. Yeah. I also recommend several cold beers and maybe a podcast to listen to while you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah, since I discovered podcasting, I would agree with that one. But the cold beers that they need equation for a long time. Not too many though, because you have sharp ripes that involved you. Be careful, Yes, be responsible, Dan, I'm good on that responsible. So so what about grilling Venison? You did a feature this summer. I'm pretty sure I saw it was you for Feeling and the stream right that was all about different wild game grilling ideas, um, the whole grilling package from Yeah, that was pretty cool of some some very good looking stuff. Is there anything from that or otherwise you can share. So when it comes to grilling venison, you know, I think what I always say is manage your cuts to the type of cooking you're gonna do. So grilling, you're gonna want something that's that's thinner, and you want to cook it hot and fast. Um So you want your girls super hot and you want to see its of that outside gets that crunchy kind of deliciousness. But you've gotta be careful, especially on venisine, because once you over cook in it's and it turns into disgusting leather that doesn't taste like very good. It tastes like iron and shoe leather. So you still need it medium rare no matter what you're cooking. Um So, you want to do hot and fast and manage your fire that way, you know. And you hear it all the time they talk about going, but the two zone fire is all I use. I always matter I'm using my gas grow or my charcoal grow. I always have a cold side. So if something does flare up, or something's getting too hot and the other cut's not done yet, I can move it over there. That's that's my biggest suggestion for thrilling. It's you know, I grew up with my dad grilling, and you know, a flare up was just something you poured beer on. You know, it's just you know, you have the whole grill and it turned into a big, big pile of flames. But once you learn about you know, two zone or even three zone going when you have a hot, a warm and a cool side, you know, manage your meat that way. Just move it around to where it needs to be. But you know, make sure you get that outside feared. Um. You know, people say, you see her the outside of us take to hold the juice is in, and that's not really true. I don't think you'll ever hold the juice is into anything unless you back you see. But but you want that kind of crispy prunchy outside that has all that sunctuous flavor on it, and then you know you still have your voice inside that that's just a little bit bloody, at least it is for me. So you talked about this hot and fast versus slow and low. You know, is there are which cuts are right for either or because I feel like some people, I mean I think they know which but I don't know, is there is there some rules that we should foul like you always do X with Y my my, my heart. And fast rule is the farther you get away from the header hoofs of any animal, the more tender than meat. Think about your most tender cut. It's the tenderline. It's far away from the head and the thods, backstraps come next. It's far away. The closer you get, the more those muscles move. And what makes what makes meat tough or what makes it cut tough, is how much it moves, how much animal uses it. The next uses to make it top. So the next tough meat, it's legs. It's you know, that's where your front shoulders. That's some tougher meat because they use is a lot your shanks close to hoof that's your toughest meat. That's toughest meat on any animal. So that's not hard. Fast rule. The farther it is away from the hooves or the head, the more tinder the cut. And then the more tender the cut. That's the stuff you usually want to cook hotten fast because you don't want it. You don't need to cook that stuff. It'll cook quickly. You don't overcook it, and it's good. If it's tough, you're gonna want to cook it longer at a lower temperature to break those fibers down. Um, So it's not a stuff and you can actually chew it. That's that's a good way to remember it. I like the hooves to head reference points. That makes a lot of sense. That's right. So you know you're gonna be grilling or you're gonna be cooking hot and fast your backshaft your tender loins. There are some cuts the sirloin um that are you know, from behind him, that are better. Some of those stufs are a little coffer. You kind of learned that as you butcher your dear. There's there's the uh sur always inside the hind corn. It's delicious. Uh. There's a couple of steaks you can cut off that French shoulder that you can cook hotton fast. They're gonna be a little tougher, but I don't mind. I mean, I actually, and this is another thing people right nearly close, But I'm not the biggest tenderloin fan Um. They're okay, but they don't have a lot of flavor, and to me, they're a little too mushy. I mean, they're so soft, especially on a younger dear. I mean, as much as I love to kill young deer, because all the rest of its super tender man, the tenderlins are almost too soft me. I like to have a little chew to my meat, and so there's a couple of steaks off that front, or a little but I've got and I'll actually grill m Speaking of speaking steaks, I feel like I remember crem If I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading maybe as a blog post from you at some point talking about I know it was like a Chimmy Cherry sauce or something like that, was like a recommended steak topper that lots of people don't use or something like that. I guess, first, did you write an article like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was. I was lucky enough to go to Argentina earlier this year. Um, and Jenny Cherry is really big in Argentina. But I also had another sauce in the name escapes me in my head right now, that was really good that I had in Argentina. That, um, that's great and it's just a little vinegar, some shallots or onion, snice stuff real fine, um, and some maybe some red or green pepper sty stuff real fine and in a little bit of garlic. It's so good. We had that on our steak down there. Ruby Way and Jimmy Cherries are similar. Um. Chimen cherries used to throw some garlic and a lot of parsley, and Jimmy Trees using really really green sauce from all that partsley. Um. So yeah, those are two great steak sauces that aren't really sauces like you know, It's not like an A one. It's not a thick sauce or catchup or anything like that. It's more a really fresh, bright flavor that that really compliments the flavor of the venison really well, or any steak, and you can use it on a beef steak too. It's it's instead of being thick and cloying and sweet like the barbecue or A one saucers a typical steak sauce, it's more bright and fresh and really just compliments as well. Yeah. So, so to that point, then, in addition to those two you just mentioned, I was curious, do you have any other recommended I don't know if you want to call a sauce or a topper or a flourish. I don't know what garnish to to kind of spice up your steak, because a lot of people, I feel like, you know, throw some salt in or steak and grill it, and if after doing that, you know, ten times a summer, they might want to kind of make things a little fresher, little new for their next meal. Any recommendations for taking your steak to the next level. Yeah, for a long time, I wasn't a marinade fan because I felt like most marinade people, you know, Ports and Italian season and as the top bag through a steak in there and put it in the refrigerator for four days, thought that they were tenderizing it and really just end up with a musty steak that tasted like a salad. And so I tended to get away from it. But there are really like marinades. The key is for me and for any marinade, you really don't need to marinade a steak more than four hours because where you're really flavoring it, a marinade doesn't tenderize a steak unless you're using yogurt and enzyme or pineapple juice. Most stuff that you use like a vinegar that's not really tenderizing its flavoring. So I'm kind of into some Asian flavors. I love little soy sauce, a little bearings. Uh, just to touch a sessantly oil session we always goes a really long way. But if you put a touch of sessame oil and a little bit of soy sauce, maybe some sesame seeds um coriander, and throw that in a quick marinade. Oh man, that's that's that's kind of my favorite right now. That does sound very good. I'm getting pretty younger and it's funny. I yeah, I get I feel on stages where like I'll get on an Asian kick for a long time, so you know, for a month, I'll you know, all my stage and I'll make up as Asian. So I'm just you know, I don't have any hard and fast rules when I make a man, and it's usually like, oh man, I'm hungry, I'm gonna what am I gonna throw in a ball with together? So I'll do some Asian flavors and then I'll be like, oh no, no, I like text mix and so then I'll need some text mix for a month or two and they'll get sick of that. So it's funny. I just kind of I just kind of go on stages, you know, kind of go around the world, I guess. But but you know, he said that a lot of guys just to assault other staking called good Man for a backstaff, coach for salt and black pepper. That's That's about all that is to do it that I will. I'll throw a plug in and it's not really a plug, but I believe that I've been using it for like fifteen years. There's a seasoning that's Nebraska local called Baltges Seasoning, and it's made by a little family in North Plat and it is by far the best wild game seasoning I have ever tried. They I kind of know the family, but it's not like I'm doing them any favors. I I just believe in it. So if you're ever in a brasket, you'll be near North platte Ogalala. Go on the grocery store. I almost promised they have some balls. There's season there. You know, everybody has their favorite. There's Montreal, there's Johnny's. It's like that. But for some reason, I wish I knew what they put in it, because I make it myself. But I just I just buy a nick Jar balls whige is whatever. I'm in the grocery store and I go through it its own, and I've started people onto it all over the place, so alight. That's why, that's why one plug for the day started for jumping in and of thinking if you have any seasoning advertisers, we do not. Me and Daniel make sure to keep that out there. That was no and nobody compensated for that. I actually just love it, so that's awesome. So how about the guy. Any marinats or seasons I should know about or try. I mean, that's what I think I like about. When I travel to Hunt, I always learned new, either new techniques or new flavorings. And so let me pick your brain real quick. How about you guys? Oh jeez, you're asking the wrong guys. I think I don't know. I do olive oil and garlic. That's kind of like a marinade that I've used over the years. And you're right, with a little bit of soy sauce and uh what, it's set for an hour or two before I throw it on a grill, and that's what I've used in the past for for grilling. Um, when I do my you know, when I do my low and slow in the crock pot, that's more of you know, chopped garlic and uh, some salt and pepper. I throw some lemon pepper on there as well. Yeah, yeah, Litton pepper is really good. And it's funny. It's those It's funny how the two techniques. And I don't know why this is the hot pest grilling you kind of go with fresher, brighter flavors. But for some reason, when we pick croc pot or braising or any of that slow cooking, we want these rich tea flavors. You know. I don't know if it's because we're doing that in the winter and we want to be warm, you know, we want to Hungarian goo losh and stuff like that. So we want big, thick, flavorful stuff. And in the summer to work, we just want something to to, you know, to chase our beer with. But but it's funny how how your tongue kind of travels through these different flavor paths throughout the year. It is, it is, it's it's kind of funny. You mentioned that we do some kind of similar things. I don't do a lot of like marinades for our steak. Usually what I end up doing is I'll just do olive oil and salt on the steak, grill it up. But then we might put some kind of like topper or sauce on it, or on the side or something. So we sometimes make like an herb butter, Like my wife will mix up a bunch of herbs with some whipped butter, and then we might put a little doallup of that on top of the steak. Um. We also will put sometimes my wife does this more than I do. She'll sometimes just pour like balsamic vinegarrette on her steak um. And then something that I really like that is, you know, kind of commonly held um. You know, it's a popular uses some sort of berry sauce on your venison. So just the other day I growed up some steaks and we made a sauce. Well, first we saute some shitaki mushrooms, some great big shitaki mushrooms sliced up, and then we made a saw us out of blackberries, fresh blackberries, a dark red wine and some butter and onions and got that all mixed up and hot together and put that on top of the mushrooms on the steak, and that was just dynamite. Oh yeah. That and this time of year, you know, you're starting to get some fresh berries coming off everywhere, especially if you're in Montana, you should be able to find some fresh blueberries are pretty quick, and you know it's it's hard to beat some fresh blue fresh blueberry pant sauce on a steak. So um man, that's that's just a great thing. But that you know, you you made you made a point there that I want to bring up, and you said you mix some herbs with the with butter. You know, that's that's something that's very simple to do. It's called the compound butter and you can put about any flavor as you want in it. Um that's a great things I've been doing so launcher of lime juice and butter and actually put it on our fresh grilled sweet corn and it's just to diapho. And the thing is you can make that compound butter ahead of time and stick at the freezer and then just cut off a little bit of it and put it on top of your steak. I mean, that's The secret the most great steakhouses in the world is before they bring their steak out to you, they put a big old hunk of butter on it, melted into it as they bring it to your cables. So, uh, you know, they called the compound butter and make any you know, any any combination of herbs or flavoring you want, whip that into some butter and then and freeze it, and then you'll always have a great steak topping whenever, any time of year. So yeah, that's a that's a great suggestion. The idea of making it ahead of time and saving it for future, for future uses, That's that's the way to go. So I'll tell you one thing, David, you have most definitely made me hungry and anty to get out of the studio and get to dinner. So well, that's good. I think you're having a fresh trout dinner or or something. I don't know what my dinner plans for tonight are you we'll see in there. You know. I like to think that I'm this this well known wild game cook, but a lot of time it's cheese wrapped into our chia because I'm in a hurry to the truth comes out. So that is true. So before we let you go really quick, David, if anyone wants to see your work, to read some of your articles, you know, where should they go? Where should they look to find that stuff? Yeah? So so on field stream dot com. There's a blog called the wild Chef that's written by me, so, um, you'll find my stuff there. Um. I write the fair Game column every month in Peterson's Hunting magazine and that's also all cooking related. Um, if you just want in general hunting stuff, film Stream the print magazine almost always has something in needed. Buy at Peterson Hunting Wildfowl. I'm a big water fowler, so I love contributed to Wildfowl and uh, you know, I'd love burn to follow me on instagram sperreal fork is my instagram f e r a l fork f r K, And uh, you know it's just kind of my my I call that my facade. That's my curated life. That's all the cool stuff I do. You don't you don't have to see me sitting in my computer ten hours a day writing words out to see everyone's while I catch a nice blue deal or or I feel a nice animal and I get it on there so follow me there or um, you know, checking out on field stream dot com. And I'd love to have people to try them in whenever they want. So awesome, well, I will. I will recommend everyone listening to follow you on Instagram if and only if you will post a picture of you eating a tortilla with cheese. I will do that. I will. I might have got fancy it up with some saucer or something, so it's not proletaria, but I will definitely do that. Alright, man, I I'm really appreciate. I was excited when you asked me to come on. I'm I'm a big fan of wire to Hunt and a big fan of everything you guys do, and so I'm really excited to be on here. I'm again I gotta join you guys and talk about something that usually I don't do enough. And that's why I get on. I get out for meal there and elk and ducks and geese, and I try to get out a few days every year for white tail, but I always like to talking about it. So we appreciate to this is. This has been a blast. We uh we got some good laughs. I'm good info and uh hungry stomachs, so David, You're welcome back any time. Great, great, thanks guys and Dan. Good luck in Nebraska. So it's my it's my favorite stage. It's been my home my whole life. So I'm got to gonna come out here, don it. But as I told you before, there are another here here, so move along please. All right, David, have a good one. We'll talk to you soon and with that we will wrap this one up. So before we go, we do need to take a quick second to thank our partners who helped keep this podcast going so big. Thank you to Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Hunter A, Maps, Ozonics, Carbon Express, Maybon Optics, and the White Tailed Institute of North America. Thank you, thank you, and finally, thank you all for joining us today and tuning in. Hopefully enjoy this conversation with David and our talks about the great planes and cooking, venison and even the butterfly effect. You never you never quite know where we're gonna go with these things, but hopefully you stuck around and enjoyed what we had to say. So until next time, thanks again, and stay wired to Hunt.

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