00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four oh seven, and today in the show, we are taking a break from hardcore strategy and deer hunting deep dives and instead sith like kicking back catching up with longtime Wired Hunt contributor and deer hunting madman Dan nine Fingers Johnson. All Right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X Today. Um, we're doing something that at least I personally need pretty darn bad. Um. You know, it's February, it's cold and nasty here in Michigan. For the last I don't know month or two, our restaurants and coffee shops and all that stuff's been closed, so you know, there hasn't been the opportunity to do the thing that that I sometimes like to do, which is go get breakfast with a buddy or get a coffee with a friend. I haven't gone to get a beer with friends in years because of kids. But that sounds pretty nice. But with everything shut down and stuff being weird. It just seems like I'm missing just catching up with a friend about some stuff, and maybe some people out there are in the same boat. So my plan today is to take a break from the hardcore strategy and all the note taking and the lessons and the serious strategy and whatnot, and instead just just catch up with my good buddy, one of the weirdest people I know, one of the most important people ever here on the Weird Podcast, Mr Dan Johnson. Whoa, that's that's that's the energy need. Do you have any sleeping kids? Man, they're both sleeping right now. They're both sleeping. You can't do a flare wou right now. I can't, But I can do a serious fist pump in silence. Give me hey, how about you give me? Do you know who Randy Mashuman Savages? No, I don't know his his His claim to fame was like, oh yeah, give me an Oh yeah, yeah, that's what I like. Dude. Set the tone. This is gonna be an awesome podcast. I'm bringing the A game out today, good man. I need that. I really need it right now because I'm I'm I'm dragontail a little bit. I'm dragontail. It's been like it's been a rough week here in the Kennon household. I mean, we're we're all healthy and safe and it's all okay, but otherwise like kind of just need that pick me up. So you got it, brother, I'm here. You are the antidote to my woes. Dan, how the hell are you? I'm doing good man. I haven't had any major kid debacles, you know, like, uh, glitter in the dryer. You know, we have the occasional fiec fec smeared on the toilet, but that's you know, you come to expect that when you got a young man. He's got a child growing into a man, right and you gotta and we have a lot of flushable wipes in the house, and uh so it's like it's it's good. How about you. That's good man. I I don't know, We're not quite there. I had I made a big dad mistake about a week ago and was wrestling with both of my boys and basically my youngest fell off the bed and hit his head. That yeah, And so that was a real doozy and like a scary situation there for a little bit. But everything's okay. But it was a very stressful event in the moment that happened. And then my older son got sick and was puking all over the house and puked all over my books and my wife's computer and all that stuff. So that happened. Uh God, there's something else that happened too. But it's just been like a bunch of stuff like that every day. It just seems like there's some other small catastrophe that's just kind of kept us from being as focused we want. It just seems like every day has been a little bit of a ship show. So yeah, that's that's just kind of like the world we're in right now. But it's it's all right. It could be worse. Um, I'm just ready for sunshine and like getting out to do stuff that's not zero degrees and nasty. I bet you there's close to two ft of snow on the ground here in Iowa, and I went to go pull it trail camera the other day and I was hiny in it through you know, eighteen inches to two ft of snow, and I'm starting, honestly, I'm starting to get worried about the white tail herd in this area. We're not that bad. But it's snow and cold, are you? Are you saying that just because of how cold it is and then that depth of snow, Well, it's not even like the snow per se, because I've seen I've seen winners where the snow accumulates over the over time and we get like right now, we're experiencing a real deep cold front. Like I think the high yesterday and the town to the north of me was negative one. So not only do we have the frigid temperatures, but we got the snow layer of ice snow kind of combination going on. And I just the deer can't get to the egg fields. Like when I went out there, I saw I saw a couple of deer beds, but not really any uh any activity in the egg fields. So wherever they're at, they're sitting real tight to their food source and they're not moving at all. Yeah, And I guess that makes sense. There's there's probably a lot of those deer they're thinking just weather, just just use as little energy as possible right now and pushed through it. It is. It is crazy what they what they lived through. Yeah, And and most of the time thrive there. They're quite the they're quite the animal. That's what I couldn't do it. Do you guys get very much ice up there where you're where you're at, we get a decent bit, yeah, I mean yeah, we we definitely had it. Gosh, I don't know what it was we got. I know, seven to ten days ago we got that pretty good ice storm. Let's say that maybe that's the same time you got it. Yeah, yeah, so you know right now, the conditions that we have, it's just deep snow, right and I'm I'm sure there's you know, some kind of vegetation that they can munch on, whether it's buds or bark, or leave some of these trees that kind of stayed green all year, or maybe even finding some standing egg if if that's possible. Well, the year, I think it was like three years ago, maybe four years ago, we had this incident where it snowed a whole bunch and then it got warm for two days and all of it melted and then it froze hard for like another two days. And that year, while shed unning, I found probably the most dead deer that I've ever found. And I think a lot of it had to do too with that that incident where the ice on the ground really kept them from getting anything out of it. Yeah. That makes for a bad combination, that's for sure. So you said you got out and saw some beds where you just scouting or what. Yeah, so I had Yeah, well I was. I always like to go out for one kind of quick trip this time of year, uh, late January, early February, because some of the bigger sheds that I've ever found have been in late the late January time frame once that season has been over. So I had a I had one trail camera still out soaking since I want to say late October, and I ended up pulling it, you know, hiking in it through all the snow. And while I was back there, I said, well, I might as well go walk this ridge that's notorious for holding a doge, you know, betting. It's a betting area pretty much. And I went over there and I saw some beds, but the snow was so deep and if if they did drop, it was like three days prior and we had a big snowstorm, so if it did drop, it within that three day period. I was really hoping to just kind of walk up to where these beds were at and see a shed laying down in the bed. But no luck. Did you uh between that camera pull or any others? Do you have any idea of of what Bucks made it? No, I don't have any intel right now of any deer I pull ever since you know, all the thievery that's been going on on the properties that I hunt, I pulled my I pull my trail cameras before shotgun season is over. So it sucks because then that kind of limits me. But I'm thinking about going out and dropping a whole bunch of corn out on some of the farms I have access to, just to get kind of not only help them out, get him some feed, but you know also the intel that comes with it. Yeah, I hear you. Um, I'm no expert on this, so you should go to some reading. But I remember a handful of years ago when we had this mega polar vortex cold weather stuff going on. I remember reading some stuff where they were saying that the and I might get the details here, but basically there it was a warning from Kip Adams. I think writing about in the cold weather, a lot of people like to put out a bunch of food, but putting like a whole bunch of a different kind of food than they're eating all in one spout all at once can actually throw things off for them and actually cause them more harm than good. So it's either like you should have consistent food all the way through that you're providing or none at all. Um. I think that's what I remember, but I could be wrong, and I think I think what he was saying was, if you're throwing a whole bunch of corn down on the ground, the calories that are um consumed through the corn are not necessarily as nutrition. It's it's uh, I mean, it would get them by. But if it's just if they're just eating corn, the protein or the nutrients isn't there as opposed to other things that they could be eating. And therefore they're just eating the corn for one reason, and that's convenience, and and then that's keeping them from doing the other stuff they should be doing. Yeah, I'll go find that again and post that. I know how I'm talking about. But yeah, cold weather not great. But these credits are survivors, that's uh, that's for sure. Um, So you don't know what's running around there out right now. I happened to get eyes on my main spot the other day. This is about a week or ten days ago, maybe out in the evening. I was watching it about the last half hour of daylight. And this spot usually has you know, good food sources on it even into the late season. But as as you and I've talked about over the past couple of months, they disked everything up, so it's a bunch of dirt fields. So there's every time I go out there and look, there's been pretty much zero dear. Ever, but this one night I spotted three big bodies, bigger bodies, and it actually ended up being all three of the bucks that I was consistently seeing out in this area throughout the hunting season other than so the two three year olds and then a two year old, all three of which I passed I don't know, almost dozens of times. I feel like, um, they all made it. So so that's cool, um and a good sign. And you know what is that it was probably the beginning of February, so at least those three bucks made it to the beginning of February. And if those two three year olds make it to next year, I'd be I'd be really excited. So that was a good sign. Do you have enough food on your property to get them through the winter, you think, definitely, not not on not on the spots that I can hunt, but they must be spending time, you know, on these other properties. I'm guessing just for all I know where they're going. They were heading across the dirt field that is on the property I can hunt, and they're heading towards some farms on the other side of the road where there is some cut corns, so they're heading there. So I think that they might be still betting in early some of the times, still betting in the main area that these bucks have been, but they're traveling different directions, you know. Like when I killed Tran, most of the deer movement was heading east when usually goes west. So I'm guessing most of that still happening because there was food on that side of a square mile, So I think they're they're just adjusting because there's essentially zero food on the spots that I that I hunt between the crop fields being all tilled up and then the food plots that I planted are just nothing, there's nothing left of them. So um, so yeah, that that's the situation there. Next year hopefully be a different story. And if these two, especially two three year olds, if they make it, you know, things change of worse. But those two were We're regular, they were consistent. I've got a better idea of what they're doing than I've had for many deer in the past. So if either one of them is around, there'll be a the'll be a good target. There's that. There was one buck who looked just like a miniature version of Tran He's just a tall eight point with really long g twos um because he's a cool deer passed on him a bunch. And the other one was this nice tent pointer and we don't usually get like good looking tent pointers like that is three year olds around here too often. And uh, I was in my head, I was kind of referring to him as rookie of the year because he was like the new one this year and like, dang, he's going to be a stud. So yeah, he reminded me of myself. Um, so he'll he's the kind of buck that you know, he could he could blow up, you know, for a Michigan buck at least, So it'll be it'll be interesting to see if they're here again in one what what they look like, So yeah, I'm little bit optimism. It's not really even if I did dump a ton of corn on the properties that I hunt. The farm that I hunt that's closest to my house maybe, but the farm where I spend most of my rut and where I shot my buck this year, I don't. You know, once and we talked about this May and ever since the beginning of this podcast, that the deer after the shotgun season just to leave the farm and they don't come back until spring. So once the shotgun hunters push them out, it doesn't really rebound until uh, you know spring. And depending on certain years, it also impacts the shed hunting. I mean last year, man, I walked the whole farm found one shed on it, and that was in prime time, you know. So yeah, Plus, oh, I don't I think I told you this too. I lost my main shed hunting farm that borders I can't hunt it. In the past, I couldn't hunt it, but I could shed hunt it, and that that was my go to clean up spot when I want to go find sheds, I would every year. It's just like that perfect egg thermal cover late season, you know, habitat and I would just clean house on of the sheds and um guy, the guy told me, Um, you know, hey, my kids want to start shed hunting, So yeah, bummer here it is. Yeah, but whatever, I got a lot of public around here that I think the snow is gonna be on the ground for a while, so shed hunting might be difficult this year. The one good thing I've always thought when it comes to these snow years, as it concentrates the deer. So you know, it's a fact they're they're gonna If you can find where they are concentrated, like where that very best winter food is or that very best thermal cover, I think you'll have a lot more dear packed into those best spots. And so yeah, I mean, you know, you and I have talked about this in the past. When you get that snow melting, you find a couple of those core spots that where they can stack up. So I guess I think me and you had a couple of experiences like that was a couple of years ago when we when that group came down to Iowa and we were shed hunting and we had those uh those buffer strips that we were walking and ship I think we found like twenty sheds between I don't know, there was quite a few people, but within a hundred acres of all this this, all these buffer strips, and it was money. You find your little honey holes, and there they are. Do you have speaking of that kind of thing, do you have your plans laid yet for when you're and start doing that? You know, um, here in a couple of weeks, my daughter is having a sleepover birthday at the house, and I'm gonna take the boys down to my mom's and uh, and I think I might go out for a quick shed hunt while the kids are hanging at my mom's, just to go check the farm out. I might. I might dump a little corn, just to see what's up. But other than that, you know, walk a couple of betting areas, walk some field edges. Other than that, man, I just don't think I'll be doing anything until early March. Yeah, So it seems like with the snow, I uh, I haven't really figured out my plans entirely either, but I think I am going to head to Iowa in March once it snow drops, because because I'm gonna I'm gonna hunt Iowa this year, So I want to get some scouting in and uh some prep on these spots that I'm on a hunt. So how many points, uh bunch three or three or four or four? Now I think four, Well four should get you the unit that I live in. I know that's true, but I don't have I don't have the spots to hunt there. Well, you got call Andy May. Andy May's got some spots. Tell him I'm Mark Canyon and just let him, you know, put a little pressure on him. See what he says. Yeah, that's that's a good idea. And maybe and maybe we just maybe we do the other thing, which is we just talked about him on this podcast and try to peer pressure him through through our audience to make that happen so he'll finally spill the beans on his public land hot spot. And no, I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna hunt that area I've hunt in the past because between some stuff that Raws and Peter have and some stuff that I've hunted in the past, I think I can get a good situation lined up. So that's where I'm That's where I'm leaning. But we'll have to talk to details when I figure that out, and and see if maybe there's some way to get together at that point. Yeah. If anything, I uh, I'll just I'll just make my way. If I've already shot a deer, potentially I might just make my way up towards you and just hang and shoot a doll or two. Yeah, definitely. Um speaking of that, have you figured out your have you thought at all about what's happened in you with your hunting plans? I saw you put in for Wyoming, elk is that is that finally happening up? Six points? I applied on like the last day of January, and uh, I'm heading out. No, I don't know yet, I've put in the crazy thing. I talked with a guy from go Hunt and he was telling me that the unit that I applied for is really volatile. So in twenty I I applied with, I applied with six points. Okay, I thought it was seven, but it's actually six. How that however that works? But um ah, that unit last year was five points and you're geting, you know, like, if you applied with five points, you're in. So I have six so I'm thinking, okay, well that's good. But he said in twenty nineteen you had to have ten points to get in. So I'm still new to how all these draw odds work and the fluctuation and point creep and all that stuff. So I put in, thinking, oh, dude, six points, I'm guaranteed to hunt. But it's not. It doesn't work that way, So I guess I gotta wait till May to see if it's a percent or not. I kind of I don't, kind of, I really do not like how complicated this stuff has gotten in a lot of states out there. It's it makes it, especially for new people, borderline impossible to get into this stuff when it's so damn complicated just to fare out how to get a tag? Um And did you see did you see the news about what's being proposed in Montana for non residents? Uh? That just made my like head hurt when I heard that that that is the most political bs and the like, how how do these people? Number one? How do how do outfitters? And I have nothing against outfitters, but what gives them the right to get first DIBs on tags? So the tags are sold to the outfitters, and then in order to get a nonresident tag, you have to go through an outfitter. That's that's ridiculous to me, And I'm not exactly sure if that's maybe maybe you are sure about that. I can't remember the specifics. All I know is that six of the tags that would be available for non residents have to use an outfitter UM. So that just means like for people that want to d I Y, there's very little opportunity now to actually draw a tag and do that yourself. If that happens now, I would be I wouldn't be surprised at all if that gets shot down, because I know a lot of people were you know, letting their thoughts be known on that. So I'm hoping that doesn't happen. But already, like I shoot, six years ago, I was hunting Montana every year, and the last three years I haven't been able to draw UM. So as it stands, already, you know, it's become much harder to get a tag there, let alone if our chances of or if our pool of available tags was you know, dried up considerably. And and that it's especially if a bomber, because Montana has always been one of those opportunity states, you know, like Idaho, Colorado for certain things you can get over the counter tags Montana for deer and certain things. There's a lot of general hunting opportunities, so it was always nice that there were handful of states where you could go and still get a tag somewhat easily and have a chance to just have a fun hunt. You're not necessarily going to be in one of these quote unquote trophy regions, but you could get out there and then if you want to go after that, you know, Mega Bowl or whatever, you could go through all the regular role of New Mexico or Utah or Arizona or one of these spots where that's more complicated some of the Wyoming Wyoming units like you're talking about, But now it's like, jeez, everything's getting tough. Idaho just really increase their prices. They just significantly reduced allocations for nonresident stuff. They're making you. Um, you know, when it came for deer in Idaho, you could buy a white tail tag that would be good for the state. Um. Now you have to pick one specific unit, and these aren't like big units, like how Iowa has eight units. There's like sixty units, So I'd have to pick like a little couple square mile region almost for some of these places. Um So, there's just I don't know, and they're just really reducing quotas for each one of these spots. Like the place that I had an ELK tag for last year sold out, you know, the day that tags were made available back in January, while in previous years we used to buy our tags the day we arrived in Idaho on in September. And now they're sold out in January and they're only given out like a hundred of them. Um So, stuff is changing. Man, I don't know. I don't know what that means for the future, but it's, uh, it's a little concerning. You know. I hate to say this because it just makes me sound like that you know that guy. But everything is just leading towards this, you know, the everybody says it the rich Man sport type of thing again. You know. Iowa just recently, um you know, and I got backlash from this for voice. In my opinion, I live in Iowa and I feel that, you know, Iowa has a really good thing going, and so they wanted to propose this law that says a nonresident landowners can get a tag every year, an archery tag every year. Well, what that's gonna do. And this is my opinion, is UM out of states with a lot of money are gonna come in. They're gonna buy up all the land and they're going to you know, all the non residents will be displaced. And Iowa is already is either forty or fiftieth in the United States for public land like we have. We have less than two percent of our state is public land to hunt. Now, that's all that's gonna do is just gonna drive all these nonresidents to public land. It's gonna get overrun. And I don't care what you can say whatever you want about Iowa. You know it must be nice. It's not Michigan. Public land in Iowa gets pounded, period and just like any other state. So I I don't know. And then I hear this thing about these this law in um being proposed in Montana, and it's just like, man, why like why can't a guy make the decision if he wants to go through an outfitter or not? Like a hunt just became gas money and uh and the tag now it's gas money tag and an outfitter, and it's gonna jack up the price of a hunt. If that's something you want to do by anywhere from three thousand to six thousand dollars, depending on what species you want to hunt. Yeah, it's uh, I don't know. I don't know what the answer is there, but there definitely are these trends that are concerning and it's you know, some of it is driven by demand. If there's increasing demand, they're going to have to, you know, change things like I think with like at least an Idaho or something like that, when there's more and more people coming in there getting pushed back from residents saying, hey, we're getting overrun with people. You've gotta slow down. So there's probably something that going on. There's some weird political stuff probably going on. There's I don't know, I don't know what the answer is on it. It's it's so it's let's talk through this once because now I'm curious. Um, the demand would be that the outfitters are getting all these calls from people saying, I want to hunt your state, but they don't have the tags to give them or they're at capacity because of what reason. Like once a person gets a tag, they can do whatever they want with it, right, they can go. So where is the demand is the demand for people wanting to uh use outfitters, and the outfitters are saying, well, we can't. You know, we were full, we don't have enough tags, because I thought the tags went to the people and then the people determine how they want to hunt. Yeah, And I've got no clue on where the Montana thing came up came through, and that that sture seems like a lobbying thing or some some politician who wants to say this is better for the economy of the state or something like that. I don't know, um But but I think the general demand issue is more like why you're seeing prices rising in certain states, or why you see quotas going down for non residents in some states like Idaho, or why it's becoming more complicated in some places. Because I think there's just there are more people wanting to do this kind of hunt than there used to be. Um So, so I get the fact that management maybe needs to change a little bit because of that to make sure like the resources still being managed properly and that we can handle the increased number of people out there without ruining the experience and ruining the wildlife herds and and all that. But but I'd like to be more confident. That's because of good, you know, scientific reasons versus you know, getting more dollars in somebody's pocket. That's that's the part that I am less confident in. And uh, I don't I don't know you know the details of anyone of these situations well enough to speak, you know, too confidently on that. But um, but it's something to keep an eye on, you know. I think if nothing else, like we all as hunters should just keep our finger on the pulse of what's going on out there. And when we see something like this like the Montana deal, let's use our voice. Let's say, hey man, that's that's not okay. Let's let's keep this from being the rich man's game. Let's keep this is something that's available for everybody, um, especially you know, we've got a cool little opportunity going on right now with actually new people trying to come into the fold after the whole COVID year, you know, new hunters finally coming into this thing and trying it out. And wouldn't be a shame if there are these people that came in and were interested and then they got confused or overwhelmed or frustrated with all the stupid laws and crazy prices and draw odds and all this stuff and said that it's not worth it and then never gave another shot. That would be that'd be a shame. Yeah, it's almost like all you know that it's a blessing in disguise, right because there's a spike of license sales and whatnot. But um, you know, they get to the point where they start to get excited and then there's just this wall that they can't even get. It's like, well, I could just go back to doing what I was doing, you know, instead hunting. Yeah, I'm sure there's there's I'm sure there's been people like that who who hit that and say not worth the headache. So I guess all we can do is, you know, I just said, try to keep tabs on things and then try to lend a hand to those new folks when we do hear from them when they're looking for a little bit of advice on what the heck do you do about this? Or how do you get a tag? Or what does this mean? Or what's this law? Or how do we get points? Or I suppose that's one thing we can all can contribute a little bit on is is try to help the people along the way, and not that it's an easier for us. We're all half half the time confused too, But I guess do what you can, um. I mean, I was just talking about this with Kip, speaking of Kip talking about this the other day with him that it just seems like today in one and going forward, all of us like if you want to be a hunter, you can't just be a hunter anymore. You also have to be an advocate. Like it's just we're in a different world now. We can't just say I go out there, I shoot my gun and I kill a couple of deer and have a good time, and like that's all you do. I think that now. It's there's just so many different pressures on this thing. There's so many different possible you know, folks that want to stick a knife in the back of the hunting world or wildlife or wild places that if we're not also realizing that, Okay, if I hunt, I also need to do this, which is pay attention and make sure I'm up to speed on what's going on. It is making sure I speak up to make sure we protect this right and protect these things. It is, you know, giving back on occasion, whether that's donating to an organization or going out there and picking up trash like and you and I have had conversations like this over the last six years plenty of time. Times like I just think that it now should be it's it's a good requirement if you want to keep this thing going. I think we all have to just make that a part of our our identity. Yeah, it's it really is tough because I I know I shouldn't say I feel I said I should say. I know that there are people that will carry the weight, you know what I mean. They will, they will be the advocates, They will spread the good word. They will do what me and you do on a daily basis. And I think, although that's not uh enough, I feel like it helps move the needle a little bit. Um. Now, if everybody was an advocate and everybody had on the right shoes and they did the work and they spread their you know, spread the right message, um man, that would be awesome. Uh Is it necessary? I don't know, Probably not, you know, but it's a good mindset to have. Well, Hey, I hear what you're saying, and I think that it would certainly be better if more people at least and and if we can redefine, you know, if if five years from now, we could redefine what it means to be a hunter, a deer hunter, like if if you're gonna, if you're gonna take this thing seriously, if this is a part of like who you are. If what that meant wasn't just I kill Bucks, you know, if instead being a serious deer hunter saying like I'm a white tail addict or I live this lifestyle, if that also meant within our community, like oh yeah, I like the deer hunter. Ton I killed big Bucks And oh yeah, I always you know, I'm a conservationist too, Like it wasn't just I'm a trophy hunting big Bucks shooting sound of a gun, it was also like this and that they go together. Like if somehow that became just part of our DNA, we'd be in a day am good place. Um So maybe I'm maybe I'm just smoking the pipe here and wishing on a dream, but I can wish, right. I hate to bring this up, man, but there's a there are a couple of things out that are going on right now, or we're going on and art and going on anymore. I don't. I don't even know what the proper words to use are. But there are people within the hunting industry, I'll say, or the hunting community who have very large followings and have been charged with wild game violations and are either in the process of the that you know, of going through the legal system, or have somehow beat the legal system or things. You know. Uh. One example that I've been following is um. I don't I want to say his name to call him out, but I won't. But this, you know, the dude baited illegally. Okay, you know that's not a major one, but still you gotta follow the laws. Then he shot a deer, then he uh took a picture with it, then he put it on social media, and then he left it in the woods without taking any of the meat off. And he didn't even take the rack off of it, just shot it and and did the Instagram thing with it and then let it lay, went got charged with it. I followed along for all this time, and now the case has been dropped and sealed, so then now there's no more information about what's going on. Yet this person is still in the hunting industry and promoting brands and going about business as usual, and it drives me insane, Like I I'm angry about this. And what I'm getting at is we have we have certain people who are the bad apples in this industry but have a very big following, and they are still allowed to go out and do what they do even though they have this this this backstory or these things that have happened to them that I don't know just get swept under the rug and it and it really upsets me. Yeah, that's crazy. I don't I don't know if I know that specific example you're talking about. That's that's wild that somebody could get away with that. I can't wrap my head around that. But yeah, yeah, I mean that kind of stuff that there's just no place for that anymore. You can't, you can't. That's just not okay. Obviously it's it's and especially from someone who has a platform and who you know, people look to as a role model, that's that's just really discourage um. They represent us, and if that kind of stuff gets out to the wrong hands, it's just more fuel for anti hunters to come in and use that as an example of why other people should join them in the fight to ban hunting. I mean, you're seeing it all over the bear hunting in California, right, the bear hunting out in uh I think out east in New Jersey or something like that. So all these it's just one small step at a time, all these emotional decisions are being made, they're ignoring logic. And then some dipship does does something like this, and it's he's just stabbing us in the back to right, and yeah, agree, And that's exactly why. You know, we may not be all control what this bozo does or whatever weird cork in the legal system. Let him get away with it. All we can do, I think, is you and I and everyone listening. We've got to be the example of the right way to do stuff. We've got to be the advocate. We've got to do the right thing even when no one's looking. We need to be the positive example so that enough nine hunters out there see the good, see the value in what we're doing, see that the vast majority of us are upstanding and and want to do this thing the right way and want to take care of the resource. We just have to make sure that more of us are those positive examples, because like you're right, if if enough bad apples get out there, we're gonna lose this right. We're gonna lose our privileges, We're gonna lose our opportunities. We're gonna lose the places and the critters and the firearms and all the different things that allow us to do what we want to do. That's none of us guaranteed unless we are doing the right stuff and standing up for it so that that parts that parts on you and me. Now I'm fired up, Mark, Like I hate poachers. I hate people like that do disgusting stuff like that, and it just I want to fight him. I tell you what I will. I don't you're talking about how you know? You were saying like maybe you and your kid don't have the brains, but you got the braun. Uh. I don't have the braun. Maybe I've got some small amount of brains. But if if, if you and I could be combined into like an anti poaching superhero of sorts, we could really take them down. Man. Not only do we like quote the law of Verbatim to him, but then we just kick out and we have and we have mutton shops and a badass goate can you can you imagine like your side beard combined with my peach fuzz goatee, what that would look like? Yeah? Yeah, and it would It would almost be like have you ever seen the cartoon Megamind? Has your kid watched that? No? But I know what it is. He's like, he's super he's like a super villain. But he goes up against this character who's this big, brawny, you know, like Mr Clean looking superhero and he's the villain and it's just like got this big head, skinny arms and legs. So I don't know, man, remember gosh, over the years, we've had a whole lot of these random I don't even know what we used to call him. But we're having one of those whatever we used to do, we're having one of those again. What's the here here's the here's the real question? Right? Okay, So we combine into this superhero. What would our weakness be? Because we got it? We can't. Let's the weakness get out? Kryptonite is Superman? Yeah? Okay, um, Godlee, what is our weakness? Everybody listening that the five people that are still listening probably are thinking of themselves. It's so obvious, you dip shits. Uh, I know what one of them would be, but maybe they would cancel it out. It would it would be like, okay, here's some does coming through. Let's say we're in a tree stand right, here's some does coming through. We're doing a steak out, and it might be all day long that we have to sit, and it's just like eleven o'clock and it's like, well, I don't sit all day, so I gotta go. And then well, maybe we'll be here when we come back. Yeah, I mean I think it could be your knees and like my over analysis, like we'd have like some bad guy charging at us and I would sit there. Well we could do this, or maybe we should do that, but that said, maybe we should go the other way and then we get our ass caves. Yeah, and then it's no, And then it would be like dumb luck where the guy like trips on a stick and and then we're got you you know there you go. Oh man, that would be a hell of a superhero. Or we would just be a dynamic duo right where we each play ourselves but in an an enhanced version of ourselves, and then our weaknesses cancel each other out exactly exactly. That might be the better way to go versus some strange man baby combination of us. Right, so, as it's as eleven clock is um coming, you know, and I'm like, oh man, we gotta get out of the tree. Mark, I'm starting to starting to get antie. And then you just go on some filibuster where it's just like an hour long speech of why we shouldn't do it, and and by the that time, it's suns coming down, and you know, well, I gotta stay out here another thirty minutes, that's true. And I'm so fired up and upset by the end of it and stressed out, and I'm about to get piste off and leave. And then you're like, Mark, we just gotta have fun. We gotta enjoy this, you gotta focus on it, you just gotta we just gotta enjoy. And then you bust out some bush lights and then I think that's probably how the show ends. Bush lights in a tree stand. Yeah, I don't know. I just kind of had this feeling fantasy world. I like where you're going. I just kind of like that would be what you'd have in your tool chest in my backpack. And like, Mark, shut up and drink this. It just seems like, you know, Batman had the belt with like those little Batman Numchuck like stars or whatever. Like you would have several fanti pack an American an American flag fanny pack that I opened up, and it's got like an Alan wrench, spare broadheads and then a couple of bush lights. Man, we've gone to an interesting place. Yep. You said that you had a few other big things in your mind bringing laiding into this. Is there anything else that we haven't covered on that front? One second? Um, I got it. I thought I made a note here Mark, let's see. Here are gear hunts stories. Okay here, um gear all right. I went to the store the other day and I shot Uh. I shot four different bows and uh, you know, well, I gave my phone to my boy and we uh, I don't know, he sat there and while I shot a whole bunch of bows. And I must say I'm pretty impressed with so let me let me back up a second. I shot Uh. I went to the A T. A Show in nineteen went to the A T. A Show in twenty and I shot a lot of different bows. But in twenty, I was there more for work than I was to actually just walk around and enjoy the show. So um, I didn't get to shoot as many as I as I liked. So in nineteen and twenty I shot the same bow okay, so like throughout the whole hunting season. So now I'm in this, uh do I want to go out and get a new bow? Mode? Right? So I went to this sporting good story called Shields in um in Iowa City, and I ended up going and shooting through all these bows. And I'm gonna say this, man, it is so hard these days to pick uh the bow that you want because all of the bows that are being manufactured, especially the top tier brands, are really difficult to really break them apart, you know what I mean, and and find find something like there you can go out and kill the deer with any bow on the market. Yeah, I don't. I don't think you can make a bad decision when it comes to any one of the brands. I mean you might. There's certainly like little differences and certain things are certain styles. They're like how long about you get or how much weight you choose to draw by those types of things that could be right for one person, wrong for the other. So I do think there's like a fit, like what's the right fit for you, But as far as like quality and the make of all these things, you're you're still right. It's really impressive what everyone's doing these days. Yeah, I'm pretty I'm pretty excited. I think I'm gonna go um on a little bow tour here pretty soon. And I shot four brands. Let's see. I shot a Matthews, I shot a Prime, I shot at Hooit, I shot a bow Tech. I want to shoot an elite. I want to shoot an expedition. Um. I want to shoot an obsession. Uh. Those are the three that I can think of that I haven't shot yet that I want to shoot, but um yeah, man. And then I want to go test out some crossbows because I want to get something simple for my kids to mess around with. Nice. So those things are deadly, Yeah, things are very deadly. I certainly got some experience with like the various new hunters we brought out to the back forty and man, they can get set up on those things and shooting accurately really fast. Yeah. Yeah, so that's a it's a great option for the young ones. That's for sure. Any type of and it doesn't have to be necessarily bows and arrows and stuff like that. But is there any type of I don't know, equipment that you've been looking at, whether it's for a western hunt sleeping out of your truck or or a white tail hunt? Man. Um, As you were saying this, I was starting to ask myself that same question, and I'm kind of I'm kind of you know. The one thing I'm looking at experimenting with a little bit is um climbing sticks. UM. I started using these Timber Ninjas last year. They're really sweet and mean. I really really liked them. UM. But I also got the new sticks from Tethered UM. I don't know if you've seen those. They're called the tether One sticks, I think, UM. And so I've got some of those and haven't used them yet. So that's one thing. I'm definitely gonna test those out and see what I what I'm liking there. I really want to just keep on fine tuning my mobile set up up. I felt really good about what I did this past year. It was definitely the best I've ever done with that, and I felt really comfortable. UM. But you know, I'm gonna just keep on trying some different things on that front and just keep tweaking it because I think that having that dialed is really important when you move as often as you know, as you do and as I do now. Um, just having that down to the tea is a big thing. So that's something I'll be looking at, um you know. Otherwise, I just kind of sticking with what works. I'm happy with my boat set up. I'm happy with my saddle set up. Um. You know, optics, all that stuff, same old, same old, um Man. I don't know. Um, I bought a boat, you bought a boat? About a boat? What kind of boat? A drift boat for out west? And I might use that to access some new places when I do some deer hunting out there in Wyoming or Idaho or Montana. Um. So that's mostly more of like a fishing and family purchase. But I did have in the back of my mind that that would be sweet to access some of these river stuff and and usually all of my white tail hunting I do is you know, in river corridors out there. So now with this boat, I'll be able to get to those tough to reach spots or get to these spots that, um, you know, you could coming from one way, but you're it's much more risky as far as what you're gonna bump and this way can come in from the back and slip in with the water on my side and uh and not spook those deers. So that's something that's gonna help me with some modest state hunts. Um. I'm excited about that. Um that those might be the biggest things. Um. Otherwise it's gonna be in My upcoming year is gonna be a crazy one, Um I am, because of some new projects coming up that are still in the work. So I don't want to spill all the beans, but I'm probably going to hunt my main usual Michigan stuff almost like I don't know, like less than I usually do. I'm gonna hunt very little close to home and a whole lot of honest state stuff this year. Um. Yeah, I thought that was something different. Like I thought the last time we talked, you were thinking about or you didn't know what your schedule was, and you thought you were going to be staying home a lot more. No, it is the opposite. It's it's the fact that I'm gonna be gone so much that I don't think I can add anything else to it. That's so I think so tentatively, I could be hunting Iowa, Maine, Arkansas, Nebraska, Texas, Missouri. Um, well, what else is on this possible slate? All white tails? All white tails? Yea? This year? This year, man, how are you going to pull that off? Just A don't know. That's that's the same question I'm asking myself. But it's basically going to be the short, like week long trips for this project. Um, where you're gonna go in and out on a on a location and we're doing some stuff. And so yeah, I'm gonna try to Virginia or Washington, Washington like DC or Virginia, one of that right around there. Um, So it's gonna be I'm gonna try to stretch it out over a long period time, So start some of these hunts like in August and continue into like January or February, so that I don't have more than a week or two of travel in any given month is my hope. Um, but it's gonna be it's gonna be a doozy. It could be a year where I'm just gonna be drained like never before. Um, or it might be a year that I don't know. Maybe because I'm just hitting up different spots and seeing new places, maybe that will be energizing. I don't know. I might kill seven deer, I might kill zero. It's gonna be a it's gonna be a crazy one, but it'll be once we get all fine tune. We'll have to talk through all the details of we just place in what we're doing. But um, long story short on that is it going to be a different kind of year for me. So those three bucks I was telling you about on the main Michigan stuff, even if they're around, I don't know how much I'm gonna be able to, you know, spend on them. So I don't know, it's gonna be a weird deer. Maybe maybe I'll get lucky and kill one and you know a handful of random day hunts I'll have, Or maybe I won't even want to hunt when I'm back in Mischigon because I'm just gonna be catching up and arresting and trying to catch up on family time. And these deer just might get a free pass next year. And then I'll have a couple of big old guys to Chase. I don't know. I'm it's gonna be a new kind of thing this year, so we'll see. Well, good luck, man. I think that's like, uh kind of going back to the beginning of the conversation here. I got September, I got elk, I got October will be mule deer in South Dakota, or maybe even to be honest with you, first week in November. Uh, we'll be yeah, November November, try to catch the first part of the mule there rut out there and um, and then what else and then obviously Iowa for the rut, and then depending on what happens in October and South Dakota, I may go back in December again like I did this year. That was fun. And then January actually um like a little bird landing on my shoulder and told me that I should go to Arizona to try to hunt cou'se deer in mule Dere. So January even might be uh kind of a week long deal there too. We will have to see what the wife says about that. But I'll tell you this, man. One thing that I've noticed is instead of going like back to back weeks, if I could have a week in September, I don't really do anything until the next time, which would be a week in uh, a week in October, don't do anything until my rut vacation, right, and then you know it took me this year, it only took me seven days compared to last year it took me fourteen days to get the job done. Um, that's good, you know, So a week in Iowa. And then if I do like a weekend September, October, November, December, and potentially January, and you spread it out all the right way and you got all your bases covered, I think that might work for me. So my wife didn't complain as much. And this sucks to say, but she didn't complain as much as she did in previous years. So hey, take it, and I think you're smart with this. The spread it out. That just that seems to work better than a whole It's just it always, at least from my experience too, it's always been like when a lot of days stack up, that patience and it just wears thin and it grinds on. You know, it's to be on parenting on your own for a long period time. I'm sure like that that's that's not something I would be terribly thrilled about doing either. So are you Are you heading back out west for um uh for the summer. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna be out there. We're gonna head out sometime in April and stay through the end of July. So a big, big chunk of our time will be out there this year. And then I don't know, i'd like to still I don't know if it's gonna be possible or not, but I'd like to still hunt deer there locally too, by our place. Um. But so I'm trying to have that in the schedule to do that deer hunt there in September. I just don't know with all the other things I just described if I'll be able to do that. So maybe I'll be there a little bit September. Maybe not, um but yeah, looking forward to doing a bunch of hiking and fishing and camping and and all that stuff. I'm really really looking forward to that. I'm serious cabin fever right now. Yeah, I feel you, man. Um I've scooped my driveway like thirteen times in last five days, so I I'm ready to get out and do some mushroom hunt and some shed hunt and get on the water or do some fishing and uh, man, I don't know. Man, I I'm pretty optimistic about this upcoming year. I feel compared to other years, man, I feel really good about how everything is played out, especially South Dakota, where you know I have I've had one to three trips out there now in the last two years and really gained a ship ton of knowledge of that animal and how they work through the terrain. And I think, Uh, this next trip that I go out there will be the one. This is gonna be the year. Now are you going to adjust goals, expectations, anything like that now in year three? Like so, because you just said you've got it more dialed, are you gonna be more picky or are you gonna go into it knowing that I've done this three times? It's hard. I haven't had opportunities. I'm gonna shoot that dough or that first spike or something like what are your where's your head at the moment? I can't. I can't say that because I don't know yet, But I have a feeling it's going to be that sliding scale where you know the first three days or however many days you're out there, Let's just say I'm I'm there for eight days. The first three or four days, I'm gonna probably try to hold out for a buck, probably pass a dough if I have to. And then the second four days, um, maybe flip that script a little bit and take first opportunity. So um, that didn't necessarily work too good for me this last trip, But what I've learned, like the even the last two days of the hunt from December, I learned a ton of how they bed and where they lay down and all this stuff. And I really think that that two days worth of knowledge is gonna help me. Yeah, you gotta tell you. I was pretty jealousy on that trip. I was watching it on Instagram and uh, just it's so it's so awesome out there, So go you gotta come. You have to come with me something I really want to do it, I really want to do like it's it's it's I love though great plains and the buttes and the little coolies and all those huge wide vistas like that is just that's good stuff. That's good stuff. And I hate how close you are to like you you're so close to that stuff. Yeah you could you could be in that stuff in a handful of eight hours to that spot and really like to get to the beginning of It's probably less than that. Even if you were a head straight west the second I the second I crossed the Missouri River, I can start hunting. Yeah, with that with the tag that I get so um yeah, man, I uh we dude, we've we talked about this ship too much about getting a hunt, going on a hunt again together. Right, No, we haven't done it. It's been six years really, yeah, two thousand fourteen is when we went on that elk hunt. Right, yeah, six years. Wow. I thought we were closer than that mark. But we sort of hunted together last year. Um, you at least came down to Michigan for a little bit. But you're right, You're right. Well did I not hunt? Know? You played hospitality. You were like, here's some pizza. Uh, here's a bed, and I said, oh, thank you. And I really appreciated that. And uh what you your sentiment is right, your we do you need to this is uh? Yeah. It's funny how when hunting becomes like your job all of a sudden, like doing the hunts like you would usually like get in the plan and become harder to do. So I'm in like a weird place right now. But at some point, as we were talking about the other day, like I'm in a season of life of craziness and soon, you know, someday it'll be less crazy, and I uh, I'm gonna be looking forward to to this specific hunt very much. So all right, let's let's hey one second here. What is you said? Potentially Washington, d C. Or Virginia obviously Michigan. What were the other states that you're potentially gonna be hunting this year? Arkansas, Iowa, Texas, maybe Nebraska, UM, maybe Idaho. Uh, there's even the Canada possibility. Um. And then whatever whatever you depending on when you go through Iowa, if you do this Nebraska hunt, just pick me up and I'll and I'll try to make it work and and we'll go and I'll just drop me off somewhere you go. I mean, we'll have a base camp and you can go do whatever you want to do, and I'll just you know, long range bombs, I don't somewhere careful, careful, what you ask for, I'll do it. I'll throw you in the bed of the pickup truck and we'll just go What do you do you think that's gonna make me mad? I didn't after me? Oh no, I gotta go on a deer hunt. Yeah, I guess. I just I guess I'm more worried about Sarah trying to murder me. Is more. If she hasn't left me yet, she's never gonna leave me, So I guess that's true. She's pretty well committed. Uh man, it's uh it's that time of year. Man. It's like the dreaming. And literally every night when I fall asleep, like I always read before I go to sleep, but then when I finally closed my book, I lay there in bed and start like dreaming some hunting or fishing scenario. So it's like I literally will be like envisioning myself grabbing my stuff out of the back of my truck, close the tailgate, start walking down the trail or something, and and then I just drift off like that's how every night begins. I'm just so how I fall asleep at night. This is the same way that you think, Okay, it's maybe something that's not okay to talk about in the podcast A candle, What were you gonna say? I wait, you bed close my eyes, and I literally envision walking access routes to my tree stands or the tree stands that I had up from previous years. So like I just envisioned, you know, getting out of my truck, walking across the c RPU field, diving down into the slow spot, heading straight north, and as I come to this edge of vegetation, I take a ninety degree left up the ridge to my tree stand that is right on this perfect spur ridge that leads into a bedding area. And it's money and that's what. And then I get down and I walk out, and I even envisioned my head lamp on right and then the next thing, and then I just cycled through tree stands until I fall asleep. And then every time you're walking that trail, in your mind, you're also feeling like that excitement. Oh man, what's what's gonna happen? I just think of that part because then i'd probably be up later, right like, oh there, get out my on X because I gotta go check to see if if that's a northwest wind, well then hey, I might not be able to use that access route, and you know, just go off on a I don't know how boring I think about this awfully. How boring would life be if if we didn't have like this kind of stuff that just keeps us fired up and thinking about the next thing, and keeps us planning and dreaming and putting things on the calendar, not not to you know, not to minimize the very important stuff of daily life and family and work and all that. But I mean, man, I just I'm just so thankful that we've got this thing that we're passionate about. Yeah. Absolutely, man Um. I don't know what I would do if I didn't bow hunt, right, We've we've had this talk about let's just say Thano snaps his fingers and there's no more bow hunting. And we we didn't even know there was bow hunting in the first place, right, so we're completely blind to the fact that there there was, but now there isn't bow hunting. Like, I don't know what I would do. I would probably be a lumberjack. Yeah that sounds about right. Um. I'm sorry to interrupt, but have you ever chopped down a whole tree with an ax um? Using just an ax I think I have chopped down like little trees with a hatchet. I have done that okay, but yeah, I'm talking big tree, big acts. I'm gonna tell you what it is. One of the most manly rewarding things that a guy can do, just like rolling up the sleeves, just starting to chop that son of a gun and then watching it fall over. I don't know what it is, but it is awesome. It is an awesome feeling, So highly recommend it. What like, when are you doing that? Like for what purpose are you doing that that you can speak from this experience? Okay, So my buddy owned a piece of property, uh west to here. He doesn't live there anymore, but and we had this tree that had this weird lima on it, and we're standing there and I said we should just chop it down. He's like, if you wanted to do it, go do it. So I picked up an axe. I walked down to the where this tree was and I just started swinging. It took me about it took me about forty five minutes or an hour to get it all the way down. So nobody had a chainsaw. Nobody had well, he had a chainsaw, but I wanted to do it with an axe. Man, Good for you. I did have a blister on my hand because I didn't wear gloves. I guess that's gonna be added to my bucket list of things I gotta do before I die so that I can so I can live that that manly moment. Until then, I'm probably gonna use the chainsaw. But I'm inspired for some day, all right. Man. Well, I think, uh, we're good. I think we're good. I feel like I'm recharged. I feel like I got the the escape that I needed. Um, and I'm just ready. If if I could just get rid of these zero degree temperatures and see a little green grass, then I would be, then I'd be where I need. Yeah, you can't get it all, yep, I need. I'll tell you. We'll end it here. Or I need one of those shed hunting days where you just pound ground all day long, from like eight in the morning until it starts to sun starts to come down. You go home, you have like a big bowl of chili that's been just sitting there stewing all day long, and you start you eat that. You cracked a couple of beers watching TV, and you fall asleep with the beer on your stomach and you know it's time for bed. When you wake up and you're shaking that beer spills on your shirt. That's the kind of shed hunting day I need. That's the sign of a good day, right there. Oh man, Yes, I give me, give me that kind of day. That just that good fatigue, that good burn. We're just like you're you're whooped, but you're so happy about it like that. I can't beat that, can't beat that. And uh and I think that will be my going to sleep dream tonight. I'm gonna dream about one of those days, all right, man, Thanks for thanks for catching up. Always a pleasure man, always always a good time. And that is it for us today. I just want to give you one quick heads up. If you are still listening to this, you are someone who obviously has been a long time listener of Wired to Hunt. You followed along and and you must be interested at least a little bit in the crazy, strange stories that you get from Dan and I on occasion. Well, if that's you, and if you are so dedicated to this podcast and die hard of a deer hunter that you would do that, you really ought to be subscribed to our newsletter. This is our white Tail weekly newsletter. It's where all of our new deer hunting content for Mediator goes and that's where some exciting announcements will be shared very soon, including some some I don't know how much I can say, but some cool giveaways. There's some cool giveaways coming up. There's some cool news coming up, and you will be the first to find out if you are subscribed to the White Tail weekly newsletter. You can do that by going to the meat eater dot com punching your email address there when it asks you to sign up. 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