00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three thirteen, and today on the show, it is November Eve and we are joined by longtime Midwest white Tail contributor Jared Mills to talk all things November and rut hunting. All right, welcome to another episode of the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X, and today in the show, we are preparing for the white Tail Rutt. It's the super bowl of our season. It's sweet, sweet November. My juices are flowing, Dan, or are yours? Are you feeling this? Yeah? Man, Um, it's kind of weird. I have this calm feeling as opposed to in years past where it's got to be age. Yeah maybe I dude, I won't. I won't disagree with you. I mean a lot changed over the past five to ten years and the way I approach things an inter calm. You're kind of zen. You're kind of zen these days, Mr Johnson. That's what I think is happening. Yeah, Or it could be like brain damage. It could probably brain damage. Maybe two kids, kids exactly. Yeah. But but I'm still young and youthful and full of vibracy. So I'm excited for the ret Oh yeah, dude, I mean I'm excited, but in just a different way, you know what I mean, Just like I know what I have to do and I got I just have to go out and do it. It's business time. It's just business time. Dan's gonna go out there, He's gonna do his job. He's gonna execute the game plan. He's gonna come back and say it's easy, that's how you do it. I'm thinking, I'm thinking that's that's your plan, right. I hope, I hope it's that easier. Yeah. Often times it's seemed to go that way. But um, but that's what I want to talk about today. Dan, Um, we're gonna here in a minute. I'm gonna have Jared Mills hop on the line and chat rut hunting strategy and Jared is um he works for Midwest White Tail over there with Bill Winky. Um. He's kind of in your neck of the woods. Yeah, and I will boy, you guys are chasing the same deer. Probably. Um. He's a he's an avid white tail bowl hunter. He's got a whole lot of experience himself. But I've always kind of thought that someone over there at Midwest white Tail or a similar role whatever really interesting opportunity to learn from a wide base of people. Because right there's all these different people filming for them, they're getting all these different intel reports, or they're looking at all these different hunts. I gotta believe that gives him a wide base of of intelligence and experience to pull from and to kind of learn from. I think that's that's a pretty cool thing. So when he hops on here, we're just going to dive into everything he knows about hunting the rut, all his plans, his experiences, his strategies, what he's gonna be doing this year, what he's learned over the course of all these years watching all these other guys doing it, what he's learned from Bill um who who just killed a giant buck himself. Um. So that's the game plan for the main part of the show. But for a pregame, I thought, Dan that you and I should do a couple of things. Number One, we got to catch up just a little bit on what we've been doing out on our own recent hunts. Um. I know you've got to spend some time in the woods. I got back from my boundary Wires hunt a handful days ago, and they've been hunting on the back forty here recently. Um. And then I want to talk a lot about our rut hunting plans ourselves, what our rutcation strategies are, what we're doing, UM, how we're gonna get it done. So that's that's what I got in store. Do you think that that will work? That'll work? Man? So quick question. Have you already covered the because I have been m i a on social as far as looking at other people's stuff. Are you gonna put out a podcast strictly about boundary water strip? Yes, we haven't done it yet. We recorded it, we just haven't released it yet. We recorded right after the trip. Um. But then I've realized we had a bunch of story focused podcasts and with the rut hitting, I just felt like people need a strategy episode in here too, to prep you for that Super Bowl. So there's been a lot of people asking me. We wanted to know how the hunt went. They want to hear it. Um, bear with you just a little bit We're gonna hold onto it just a little bit here so we can get you some tips and tactics to help you with these next couple of weeks of hunting, and then we're gonna release the Boundary Waters recap and you get the full story. Um. I'm also gonna start sharing some stuff on social media. UM, so I will share kind of what's going on. But but Dan, the the high level overview is that it was a tough hunt, but it was an amazing experience. I mean, we had the last we got to spend time and some of the most stunning country that I've that I've been in. I mean, this place is really cool. Um. I cannot recommend it enough as far as a place to go and see and and hunt or fish or camp and paddle. I mean, it's the real deal. So it was a great trip. Um. But now now back at it in Michigan and trying to get it done here, and it's been it's been a little bit of a struggle fest here in Michigan since I got back from that trip. I I guess maybe I'll just fill you into what I've been doing here since I got back. Well, the uh so, here's what I caught so far. Is there are some There is a little bit of fresh shine on the back forty, but not a lot of movement. Yes, that's a pretty good synopsis of it. Um. I think the last time we chatted about the back forty in detail, it was like leading into the season, right, um. And I had all these concerns about all the commotion we made in August. I mean we were in there for several weeks with four or five six people in and out, in and out doing all sorts of crap. So August was a mess. And then mid September we came in and we squirrel hunted the whole thing. And I was a little worried about that because it's right in the middle of when I usually like to keep a property untouched. UM. So I had concerns, but ended up getting in there hunting early season a few days, had a guest out, had a great time with Luke and we killed the dough. He killed the dough while we sat together, and that was a really cool experience. But still never got eyes on a mature buck except four. Actually, I think I mentioned this in one of the intros, but if I didn't, when I walked into I tell you this, when I walked in for my very first hunt on the property, I bumped a big buck that was bettered right on the edge of our property. They tell you that, No, I didn't know that. Yeah, So, hiking in for the first time, I thought I was going around in a safe route, walking on the edge of our old field, and was like a big open stand of timber, not betting country, like the kind of stuff that there should not be a buck better than. And this big wide buck jumps up twenty yards away from me and runs off into the timber. Um because that was a surprise. It was this wide eight pointer that we've been getting some pictures of now. Um, so bad news we bumped him. Good news is like, okay, there's a mature buck out here. So that was nice. Um. Since that point, hunted a few more times. Still haven't seen the mature buck. Um, but have gotten pictures of three deer, two deer that are definitely four or older, and one deer that's maybe three maybe four. Um big body deer ones that wide eight he's an old deer. You can just tell. He's got a tank of a body on him. Um, not a huge you know, set of antlers on, but a cool wide buck. The second one is a tall and eight pointer. He's another cool one big body. And then this is for you, Dan, there's another funky buck. He's a funky nine pointer. One side like a small one's got a small five point side. Then the other is like a big four point side. So I'm looking at this deer and I was going to call him the lop side of nine. And then I started thinking, I got a weird nine pointer. I know, a weird nine finger guy. I think it's time to finally name a buck after you. Oh Man, I really apprecid. Is he a three? He's a three year old? Right, he's a three or four year old? Three or four year old old? I think on on Instagram you were asking people what you thought that the age of that deer? Uh was right? Whether he was three or four? Well, that there's a different one that I was asking about that, But this was what I was asking for name ideas on well the the number. First off, I'm flattered. I really appreciate it, you know, giving me some week nine pointer and I gave you like a boot and crockett, because that's right, that's right. I forgot I forgot for a second, but that he's a cool buck. I know he is pretty funky. But I'll tell you what that other um buck that you took a picture of and posted the age question one the age question. If you put your thumb over that deer's back half his like back legs, I would say four year old. You put your thumb over his front shoulders, I would say three year old. It's crazy that like his it's almost like his body doesn't belong together. He's a funky one, he's a cool buck. Um he's a really nice Michigan deer. And that's uh that one. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Because in the summer I was seeing him, you know, on the bean fields, and I was like, oh, he's probably a three year old. And then I started looking at the fall pictures of him, and a couple of the pictures he looks like he's got a tank of a body. I'm like, jeez, that doesn't look like a three year old to me. So I don't know, Um, that's on the same that's not on the back forty. That one's on the same property where Tran is. So I'm unsure about what to do with him. Um, if I see him in person, if he looks like a tank, I might have a hard time passing on him. But but trans really the one I want there, So it'll be it'll be a game time decision. But yeah, yeah, I know. On the Back forty though, it's the it's Dan, it's the wide eight and the tall eight. And we still haven't seen him. We got some pictures. Um. We hunted this past weekend Doug dir and I don't know if you know Doug, but Dougs a friend of Steve's, Steve Ronella's, we went and hunted caribou together in Alaska. He's he does some really cool things in Wisconsin. He does some consulting and land management work, and so he came out to the Back forty to take a look, see what you know, see what we're doing, share some thoughts and some ideas for what we can do moving forward. So it's a great visit. But tough hunting, man. I mean we saw he saw one deer the whole weekend and I saw one year and a half old buck and a button buck. That was it. I mean, it was brutal. It was frustrating. I couldn't believe I mean this, Yeah, there was the middle day of the hunt was just basically a monsoon, So that was a bummer. But I know, I know they're in the area, like I know there's good bucks in the area. Interestingly, one of the neighbors texted me a picture of a really big buck, a nice buck that just got killed off the road, like someone hit it with a car. And I looked at this picture, I'm like, holy smokes, that's a giant. He's got these really unique brow times that kick out to the outside. And then that's that flipped a switch in my mind. One night in the summer, I snuck out on this property and uh, there's bean field on our neighbors. So I could sit on my property and watch the bean field on the neighbors And right as I walked up to the edge of the field, the bachelor groups of bucks were going a bachelor group of bucks were going over the hillside, and I pulled up the camera and just caught like a several second glimpse of this buck going over the hill and it was that deer. I went and watched that video clip again and it was that buck that just got killed car. So that's a bum or one of the local big mature bucks got smoked and he was bigger than I realized. Um, So I know they're around. It just hasn't worked out on the farm yet. But we're gonna start back again in November. I'll be back out there again, and uh, I gotta believe something will come through at that point. So so that's what's going on the back forty and then are they still not turnal? Mostly? Mostly There's been a few edge of daylight pictures by the wide a pointer um. Actually some some movement early in the month. Um, But recently that wide eight has been coming into bed. It looks like past one of my cameras, just at daylight or just before it. So I think he's betting in that area I've been talking about called the honey Hoole Um, this really cool zone on a ridge system with a bunch of cedars and native prairie grasses. Um. So I think he's in there a decent amount of time. So when I get back out there in a handful of days, UM, I'm gonna hit that area hard. So I'm excited, excited to see what goes on there. But then on the other spots, you know on the on the main Michigan property trans there. I hunted once for him, took a stab after him after the Boundary Waters hunt. Um been getting some more pictures of him on the edges of daylight, not quite moving in daylight. Uh. So it took a stab, pushed in deeper into the property closer where I think he beds and hung, did a hanging hunt. Didn't see much at all. Um, But starting tonight, I'm gonna get back after him. I've got the next five six days to uh to hunt that property. So I'm excited to excited to start the cat and mouse with him now in earnest Um. So the super high level. That's that's kind of what's been going on here. Boundary Waters, a little bit of time in the back forty. Now I'm gonna be hunting the other farm for a few days. Um. Uh, we can talk. Are you going to manage this? I mean, how are you going to manage your your time between your home farm and the properties that you have closer to where you live and then the back forty. So it's kind of it's it's kind of just locked in stone with the camera crew schedule. So basically we had to schedule when the camera crew can come out and film stuff on the back forty. And you know what, We're having different guests come out now for some hunts on the property too, So that's just kind of scheduled. So you know those when those dates come, I have to go and I have to hunt the back forty in those dates, and when they're not here, then I can hunt my other spots. Um. In a perfect world, I wish that, you know, we had a camera crew that was here that could just you know, when the conditions are right or when Intel tells me I should be hunting the back for it, I could just go and do it, and then when the conditions are right in my other spots, I could go hunt those spots. Um. That's just not the case. So I'm kind of stuck hunting at certain times based off of the schedule, which is it's the only It is what it is, So you can't you're not gonna hunt without a camera guy this year, or you're gonna have a camera guy the whole time on the back fort you on the back portal. So so anything on the back for you is filmed for that ship. Oh all the other stuff is just me doing my own thing. UM. So so that's the case. So I've got, you know, five or six days now on my own where I can hunt my regular spots, and then the camera group comes back and then we've got like a seven day period or something like that that's all back forty and then I'll have another six days to hunt on my other spots on my own before guns season. So I've got to five or six day windows to try to kill trand on my own UM and then that big back forty chunk in the middle, so we'll see. I mean, I wish I had the flexibility to be able to hit it when you need to, you know. You know how that is. Some days you want to be here, some days you want to be there. Some days the window right for this zone, some days the winds right for the other. UM. That would be like the best way to hunt this um. But that's just kind of part of it. It's a new thing. It's it's a cool opportunity to be able to share that hunt, and so I try to focus on the positive and not the potentially negative. But i'd be lying up in an tell you a stress about you know how the hunt's gonna go. And the fact that we haven't seen a single decent buck while hunting yet on the farm. Um, I know that they're they're around. It's just hard to have, you know, four guys walking in and out of a place like this and camera crew is walking around, and that's just a whole new thing for me. That adds an interesting wrench in the in the system. You know, Well, I mean that's out of your control, right, So why stress about it gets out of your control. It is what it is, and it's and it's it's nothing I can complain about because it's a cool thing. Like it's awesome to be able to share that story. But you know me, I'm always going to be stressing about trying to make these hunts workout. I wanted to. I want to have a great hunt. I want to see some mature deer. I want you know, like we all do, I want to have a big buck out of around right, right. So so I'm inevitably going to worry a little, but I'm trying to. I'm trying to channel my inner Dan Johnson, trying to channel that old man's end and just just let it roll, let it roll. So so that's at the high level of what I've got going on. Um, we can talk a little bit more tactic maybe later. But what about you. You've got your rutcation coming up soon. You just finished a nice long weekend hunting. What is happening in Iowa right now? Yeah? Man? Uh So I just got off of a Friday, Saturday morning, Saturday night Friday or Sunday morning hunt and uh, basically I wanted to get out there and get into a couple real tight spots, make sure there was a tree stand in there. So I went in, hung a stand and then I'll just let it sit there for the rest of the run, right. Uh. Put, Let's see, I hunted Friday night close to home. Uh. All I wanted to do was shoot a dough and I ended up stumbling upon this rub line that I could see nine different rubs from my tree stand, and they were they weren't small, They weren't these little like finger sized rubs. They were like the size of my calf. And I'm just like Jesus, what like, I'm glad I know about this spot now, so I could probably come back here and check it out, you know, if if things aren't going right on my on my main farm. But really all I wanted to do was kill it dough this weekend, and obviously that didn't happen. Easier said than done. But I just wanted to basically prepare myself for the next however many weeks, right, So I went it, set up a couple tree stands, set up a couple of trail cameras, move some trail cameras around, check some trail cameras, and I just wanted to go into the next week prepared and with a little bit more intel so that I could, uh, you know, just try to get it done again. So let's talk about the plan moving forward. You mentioned checking those trail cameras. We we just texted a little bit about some intel you've gotten. Um, can we talk about your game plan and what the trail cameras are telling you? Yeah? Man, So right now, got two pictures other than one like two or three weeks ago, right, the daylight one I sent you that was from like three weeks ago. Right, So that intel is great to have for next year, but it doesn't really mean much this year. Um, both bucks are still nocturnal right now. The two of the two of the three that I have on the hit list are here. They're on the farm, which is good, right, but they're nocturnal. Um and and and let's really quickly recap these three bucks are which three? Uh, Narlie, Charlie, Spencer new Hearth and Dork. Dork is the one who old right, He's not He'll be not He's not in this year, dude, he's been as long as this podcast has been on the air. We've been talking about. That is crazy. Yeah, I know, Um, I don't. I don't know where he lives straight up. I mean I could just there's only two trail cameras that he has shown up on the entire time I've known him. Uh. And then when the season hits, he relocates. So if I see him, it will be awesome. If I don't, uh, you know whatever, the legend, the legend lives on right Uh. But Gnarlie, Charlie and Spencer new Hearth are close to the same areas that they were or they're in the same zone. I guess that they were last year. So um, just it just be patient, I guess, you know, make sure that the when I'm checking my trail cameras, I'm looking for daylight and When I go to check the trail cameras, I'm looking for good access. Most of the trail cameras that I'm checking are real low impact, right, so, UM, at least I get an idea. If they show up after dark, I can or before dark, I I know what way they're coming and going. I'm not necessarily gonna set up close to that trail camera, if that makes sense, right, Snarli Charlie. He's this special buck that you've been talking about the last couple of years. Um, you told me that you think you're zeroing in on where you think he lives. How how are you figuring that out? Why do you think you know that? Now? All right, So we had a conversation. UM uh man, it was this summer, right, I believe where I said, I'm going to take I'm going to basically triangulate his position with all the trail camera data that I have of him every time, every spot that I have a um A trail camera picture. I'm gonna put that on a map, and then I'm gonna take a line and I'm gonna connect all the dots, and then i'm gonna remove all the inner lines and everything within that. I guess it really does look like a triangle is where I feel that I'm going to have the best shot at killing him, and everything outside of that I'm probably won't be paying much attention to this year, all right. So so what that does is it's just narrowed down the possibilities of where I can and cannot hunt for you know, the next you know, for the rut basically, or any terrain features leading like major terrain features like big ridges, spur ridges, um, you know, draws, drainages, whatever, big edge that lead into that. He's probably outside of that that triangle, but you know, coming and going, you know, through specific terrain features. So I think like that's that's just where I'm gonna I'm gonna start. Just move in and um, you know, based off wind direction and access routes, work my way into these areas and just hunt real smart as to not blow blow anything out. Look for dough groups and maybe maybe even set up like I'm trying to out these dough groups and just see what see what comes through. Look for fresh sign which is crazy. There was hardly any active scrapes on my farm, but the bucks are there because I got trail camera pictures of them, you know what I mean. So just like it's like they've stopped. They're not even scraping. I mean even places where there's a scrape last year every five feet nothing this year. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they're just laying the sign down in different places. Um, we got to be doing it somewhere. I just I can't believe they're not exactly. It's just it's really weird. So and it's not I'm not a I don't typically hunt on field edges anyway, very rarely. I mean I will every once in a while, but um, but most of the stuff is going to be in in the timber as far as the strategy is concerned. So I'm looking at the picture you sent me of your properties you can hunt and the triangle you've made of the different data points. Okay, let me pull it up once, go ahead. So basically you've got inside that triangle there is a large timbered system of draws essentially, would you say that's accurate? And then there's some crop fields kind of in a half circle that go from the north side to the east side to the south side. Um, so it looks like food is on those three directions, and then if you go to the west, it's it's more timber and cover mostly. Do you have any idea which one of those food sources is getting hit the most by the does like is there? Do you have any kind of inkling as to where which side of this core betting area he's gonna be coming going from? Is there like a cut corn field it's just getting hammered right now that you think is going to be the first place that they're gonna be heading or anything like that? Or is it? Or is it the opposite? And he could go any one of those directions any random night. You've got no clue. Yeah, I think that's the ladder, is what I as. We think. Um, there's cattle in the standing corn which are in the uh pick corn fields, so that keeps them into a certain area. But here's the thing, dude, there's acorns all over the place, so it's not like there they need to go out into the fields. Right. Um, there is a pick bean field, but the activity that I saw there this weekend is minimal. They're like I said, there's not even any scrapes on the However, I did bump a big ten pointer one I've never seen before out of a standing corn field. And when I went to go put up a new trail camera, uh this this weekend. So but that's outside of his his core area. Interesting, So then let's let's walk me through the first couple hunts. Then your rutcation starts this next weekend, like the second something like that. Yeah, it just depends, right, So historically he's only been on the property late like mid to late November. However, I'm getting more intel because I have more trail camera pictures up of him. Right, But last year the four I think it was the eighth of November, no internal pictures, is when he started showing up within that triangle. I got another trail camera picture in a different location moving through And I honestly think he his core area is going to be to the north of that triangle, and he's coming into the triangle you know, here and there for a couple of days at a time. I doubt he really is betting there, but I think there might be a day or two where he he beds just because he's chasing it. Dough. It's you know, he lays down there for a while, not necessarily making it his home, and then goes outside of the triangle to check, you know, for a different doe group or go back to bed. But as far as the next couple hunts, it's it's basically just going to be checked my trail cameras when I'm near them, and put my stands in terrain features that have the most dear movement, right and I'm talking like your your typical rut features terrain that funnels deer right as they travel back and forth. Yeah, so so that and edge and betting. So the stand the stand location that I guess I sent you in there is just this nastiness right where there is just it's thick. It's actually where I found Spencer new Hearth's shed this spring in that same thicket. Yep. So the goal is to get and I think he comes through there. I don't necessarily think he lives there, but the does. There's a dough group that lives in and around that real nasty It's basically a rectangle I would say, a hundred yards by a hundred yards square square of just overgrown thickness, and I'm gonna hunt on the corners of that square. That's the goal. So every every direction wind direction, I have a an access route to get into that so that when uh, you know, based when a when a buck comes through there on the down wind side, I have an opportunity, you know, to see them maybe a column or or just be be observant, right, And I have no I have no problem setting back aways because I think there's a big storm that's gonna knock a lot of the leafs off leaves off the tree in the next week. So when I get there this weekend, there's gonna be a lot less leaves on the tree. I'm gonna be able to see through the timber a little bit better and maybe even have a couple of observation sits that allow me to get an idea of where the deer are moving but within calling range, if that makes sense. So if I see him, I can just wrap see if it, you know, gets gets their attention. You know, you make you make your example. There is an important point I think to just re emphasize, especially for newer hunters that at this time of year, during the rut, one of the absolute best, most fool proof strategies to employ during the you know this November time frame or late October is get downwind of a doe betting ear because because these bucks they're on their feet looking for females that are ready to breed, where is the most likely to place to find a female for most of the day, it's a doe betting ear. So if these bucks are cruising looking for a dough that's ready to go, they're going to check those dope betting areas. The way they check those dope betting years efficiently is by walking on the downwind side. So what you're doing is is like a just tried and true rut hunting tactic. Hunt the downwind edges of those betting areas, watch what they're doing, just if you see something a little bit different. But that's a really good place to start if anyone doesn't know how to get started over the next couple of weeks, or you're trying to hunt a new property, find those nasty thickets where you always see does going in and out of get down one of them. I mean, you can't go wrong trying that right right, absolutely, And even more of a favorite strategy than that is staging areas like I've I found last year was a perfect example. I'm in a staging area where deer stop and chill out before they hit a egg field where they make they expose themselves to the wide open right right, You know, like that that first ten yards of a fee from a field edge in it's pretty thick and it almost creates an edge to the wide open timber or a wider open timber. And you can if you match that with like a terrain feature like what I did last year, and the right like an aggressive wind direction, you're gonna what what you're doing there is the deer only have so many options to go into an egg field and they just kind of it's almost like they're they're waiting to feel a little bit more comfortable, maybe waiting for the sun to go down a little bit. And if you can match that with a good terrain feature. And this is just my personal opinion, I wouldn't ever call myself an expert on whitetail hunting, but you're you're putting yourself in a position where they're almost forced to take a certain path once they get out of this more open timber. So they're coming from their betting area, they're using a travel corridor, they're staging, and if you can get it a terrain feature to force them into a specific part of a staging area before they head out. That's just a killer spot. Yeah, you're you're adding in, like the pinch point idea into you're kind of combining all those things to like to find the spot within the spot. Absolutely, absolutely, And that's tough for that's tough for let's say a new guy. Like, for example, I had a guy reach out to me on Instagram today said he was he's not new to hunting, but he's new to bow hunting. And he's like, dude, give me some insight, and right, just be observant and think about think about it. You can't, like, you can't just say I'm going to be a bow hunter and I want to go kill a big buck or a mature buck or whatever. You just have to take these baby steps and keep your eyes open, your ears open, and your brain open so that when you know all these things that you've learned over the years or you've talked about, it's like, holy cow, there is here's some edge. Oh my god, there's a terrain feature. I better put a tree stand here. And I hope, I hope that in your real life when you're out there hunting, you see these things that there's this inner dialogue going on and that you sound just like that. I hope you're walking with It was like, oh my god, here dude, it was. It was funny today. I was checking um, I was checking a trail camera, and so it was right off this fence crossing on a big pinch point, like the big pinch is what I call it. Right a cattle pasture meets a big bend in a creek and then there's a huge drop off that nothing goes up or down and it creates a big pinch point. Well, I walked into it just a little bit after I checked the trail camera. And remember a couple of years ago when they logged it and and then it got so a certain part of this ridge got thick and there's a main trail and a couple of small rubs that are going around it, which the trail got altered because the tree top was still there. So now they're going a little bit further north of the down the ridge to come around this, uh, this big deadfall, and out loud, I go like like the bills very dough boy, and I just caught myself. I go, I am so glad no one was with me. To witness that. But it was just this click, like, oh, they're coming around here, I have this, I can hit this access route, and they're looping around and almost forcing You know, when we when we say pinch point and we say travel corridor, these are gray areas, right, because a pinch point doesn't need to be a giant pasture meeting a giant bend in a creek. It can be something as small as a deadfall forcing deer to go around something. Right, So when I say be observant, I'm saying look for things like that as well. Yeah, And I think that's such a great point as if you're making that switch from gun to bow, or if you're a new hunter in general, or if you're just trying to take that next step and kill big, mature deer or whatever it is, that that that focus on observation and then and we talked about this a lot, but the next step is then asking why so you observe something and then ask why did that happen and then try to figure that out. And when you start answering that question for yourself based off of your observations, in a little bit of you know, detection detective work, that's when you start connecting the dots. And then I think if you do that over the next couple of weeks, you start observing a lot, thinking about why the deer doing what they're doing, and then adjusting to that, you're putting yourself in a good position to have success during the rut. I mean, focus on those doughbetting areas. Focus on these different terrain features or cover features that push deer into smaller areas, pinch points, funnels. Those bucks are on their feet, moving, trying to find doughs, find where they get concentrated. If you do that and then observe and adjust, I think you're you're gonna put yourself in a position for success. And then finally I think, my my final high level thought here on the rut, and this is this is nothing new, This is not special. We say it every single year, but it's a grind. You got to grind it out. You gotta put the time in. You gotta try to stay positive and stay focused, even if you've hunted four days all day and you haven't seen crap. Um. It's always easier said than done. I always find myself sitting out there and be like son of a mother God damnly, I'm piste off. Why have I Why haven't we seeing anything? But then you just gotta remember it could all change in five seconds. Your whole season just like that can change. So you know, I always trying to remember that last year. I was thinking about it. Last year within shooting range, I only had three deer the entire season come within shooting range. Now, I didn't shoot a doll last year. Um, I had three, two doughs in the buck that I killed. That was it. And so I wasn't necessarily focused on trying to shoot a dough last year just because at the time situation. But what I'm getting at is that's and this is a little bit more of an advanced strategy for people who you know, have been into it. But and if if you are an experienced bow hunter, you already know this. But for me, I don't care about seeing small little bucks. I don't care about seeing deer anymore. I can't care about seeing a deer one, you know, the deer that are that are on my to to do list, so to speak. And if I go into an area and only see one or two deer, and it's the deer that I'm happy, you know what I mean. That makes me happy. And on this tree stand that I set up this weekend in that on the corner of one of those that trianglor that excuse me, the that big thicket that I was talking to you about. I know that when the time is right, I'm going to have two shots. Right, so I am now, I'm not setting up for a deer could come any direction. I'm assuming deer are coming from one of two directions, and I know that I have a shot here, and I know that I have a shot here, And then, to be honest with you, I have a wall of thickness in front of me that I can't even see through. So I know, from not only experience, historical data, and just from how deer use the terrain, that they're going to come from one or one of two spots, and I better be ready when it happens. All comes down to comes back to that more informed approach. The more and more you've learned about these areas, the more focus you can be with where you hunt, how you set up, you get to that point where you are where you you know, I'm just I'm just really trying to hunt this deer or these two deer and the rest I'm not worried about. And I know it's going to come from one of these two spots, and the rest I'm not worried about. And that's that advanced stage where you have so much intel, so much experience. Um, it's a good place to be. Thirty two yards Can you make a shot? Thirty two yards? Yeah, thirty two yards on it's gonna be the max at this stand and the stand that I set up. I think if it goes down, I feel like it's going to go down there on a north or any type of an east wind at which are very rare. Alright, Well, we've got some easterly winds coming in at the end of this week, at least over here. Yeah. Yeah, So I'm not calling my shot. I'm just saying, like, I feel like, you know, when you set up a tree stand, you already know what wind direction you're gonna hunt it in. Oh yeah, you've got the game plan in mind for sure. Yeah. So, like, so are you jacked? I know, I know we're trying to cut this up, but now after talking about it, my calmness has kind of gone away, and it could be the coffee. I'm like I drink a lot of coffee these days, and I think it could be the coffee mixed with me talking about it now is starting to get me, you know, Like, yeah, buddy, I am really excited, particularly because I just got word from a friend that Tran was spotted moving in daylight right right in my neck of the woods last night, right where I can. So I'm going in after him tonight. I'm gonna try to get that pre Rut special on old Mr Tran. He's he is a stud of an eight pointer. So last last question I have for how's Further doing these days? You know what? Further is disappointed me? Dan? He posts on Instagram the other day and I'm really excited. He's up at five thirty am, and I'm like, all right, the guy is getting off his tail and doing some hunting. Good for him. I'm proud of him. Um. We we got access to a new property this year that we're sharing. Um, and I haven't been out there yet just because I've got these other things going on. He this is the best spot he has a deer hunt, So I was really excited. He's gonna hunt that hard and learn it and stuff. And he's only been out there once all season. So it's five thirty am. I see him post and he's heading out to hunt. I'm jacked. Alright, alright, the guy is gonna go out there and get it done. He's gonna check the cameras pumped. The next picture he posts, saw it. He's duck hunting. He's out there duck hunting, and I'm like, dude, get after the bucks. You gotta get into the bucks. Does Further Does Further have any Iowa Points? Uh? You know, I think he bought one point and he was talking about trying to buy some more and I don't know if he ever continued, but I know he at least got one. Um. What you think he needs to come out and experience the Iowa magic? Well, I don't know. Like there's part of me that's like, hey, get into Iowa Point, come to Iowa and then I'll have some guys take him duck hunting, man, I mean duck hunter. Is he a big duck hunter? He's never I don't understand. No, he's never duck hunting before this. This is his first time. Okay, so just something to do that was different. Yeah, And I get it. It looks like fun um so I just kid, it's great he got out there head a good time, But I really was hoping he was gonna shoot a big giant buck and text me a picture of that. So one of these days, Dan, if we give him enough crap, he'll get his stuff in order and get out there and chase the white tails. Hey, I got I have an idea. Yeah, let's make a T shirt that says something like I Know Further and have a picture of his face on it, and then sell it and donate all the money to charity. I think it's a great idea. Do you think anybody would buy it? Though? Yeah? By I Know Further and I know I Know Further shirt, I think that's I think that would be money. Oh my god. Okay, if anyone has the how many people how many people listen to this podcast? Many tens of thousands? Right? All right? So if we sell them for twenty bucks and only five thousand people buy them, right, uh, and then we give the you know, give all the money that we make from it to some charity. Man, that's a lot of money. I mean, that would be a lot of money. If someone could find a picture of Further online and what I'm envisioning is kind of do you remember the image of of President Obama when he was running for office originally, it's like kind of like a like this the whole drawing, Yes, the Hope pictures. So imagine like Josh's face, Further's face like that on a T shirt that if somebody can do that and is willing to let us use that image. You know a guy who can make T shirts, right Dan mr Zar might be able to help us do something like that. Um, that's a funny idea. If we can actually get that, I would be all about it, don't I mean, we should probably donate to q d m A since that's where Further works. That'd be a good idea done. Let's make some money. I know we're talking about the rut here and all this stuff, but at the same time, right, we have to be responsible hunters and give back and the cut m a right and you know, talk about conservation a little bit, and this is the perfect way to do it. Sigence Field delivered. Um, do we have to get like a waiver for Further to sign or do we just like treat him as you know, he's a piece of mate man, a piece of me. We're not going to tell him. All right, let's see what we can do. Let's do it all right, and I think with that, let's wrap up the intro. Uh. We're gonna get Jared on here in a minute to talk more about what he thinks about hunting the rut. But until then, Dan, I wish you all of the deer hunting luck in the world. Same. Do you get it done. Let's have the rut of our lives all right with me. Now on the line is Jared Mills. Welcome to the show, Jared and Mark, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this me too. I've been following along with your hunts and stories for a lot of years, it seems like, so I'm glad we're finally getting a chat and uh and connect like this. So thank you for making the time. Yeah, I appreciate it. That's uh, it's cool to hear that you've been following that. It seems like I've been doing it forever now. But it's a it's still as fun now as it was. They want It's crazy how fast time flies. I was just thinking about that, Like, I remember when I first started Wired Hunt. It was I think the first year that you guys that Bill had started Midwest White Tail, and I remember watching his first season while I was starting the Wired Dunton blog way back I just got out of college, and um man, everything's come a long way since then. It's crazy how long ago that was. Yeah, and it's crazy too just to see how everything that follows, and especially in the digital age, and just how even mid Us I tell, how it's changed since it started back in two thousand and eight. It's just that's pretty cool to see just how everything develops and just trying to keep up with everything. Oh yeah, it's uh interesting times. Like you said, lots of change, lots of change. So so speaking of that in Midwest White Tail, um, can you just fill folks in who maybe aren't familiar with with who you are, or what you do, or what Midwest White Tail is or all the other things you've got going on. Can you just give us a real quick cliff notes intro to you and the work you're doing over there. Absolutely, so, mid Flight Tail. First of all, it's a digital hunting show. It's it's always the bread and butter has always been in the online send my Life format started back in two thousand and eight. Um I joined Midda flite Tail as an intern in two thousand ten and then became full time with them for a little while working for Bill, and I kind of did some other things as full time job in between some sales jobs, and but I always continue to produced flite Tail from my house and recently got back into the hunting industry full time and now as of earlier this year, UM, I have a production company called forty one North Media and we produce a number are different hunting shows. Do your Turkey a little Bit Everything? Um in middle side tells one of those shows we produced. So it's me and three other full time guys and we have currently six interns right now as well. So this is no doubt our busy time of year. You know, it's just NonStop video production every day late nights, especially when we're all trying to hunt each day too. But um, it's uh, it's fun. It's pretty cool too. Just you take stuff front, we'll filming and take it from concepts and see you three room the production side. And it's fun to produce lost shows for companies like Real Tree and Cabella's and and some other names. Um, just to kind of stay connected, and I get to work on some pretty cool projects. So that's that's what I've been up to up and like I said, wouldn't have dislike I'm still filming formad Dislite till I think this is my ninth or tenth year doing it. We're getting old, We're getting old. Yeah, I like that. I really I really like the fact though, that you guys have done such a good job of getting stuff out fast like you you guys are probably the best, if not you know, one of the best at getting really close to real time updates out your your blog, the video blogs, almost daily updates. That's always been something I thought was pretty cool. So if anyone out there who wants to follow along with some great white Tail stories, uh, you guys definitely have some to share. And that's that's really why I wanted to talk to you, Jerry, because you are obviously getting after it really hard every year, year after year, chasing big white Tail bucks. But then you're also surrounded by a bunch of other buddies and people that are part of Midwest white Tail or the production company that are also doing the same. So I feel like you must be getting this huge influx of recent intel and different ideas and updates and how things are going in the field. I'm sure you're just hearing this from all over the place every year, year after year, um, which I imagine kind of fills you out with a pretty wide bread of knowledge and ideas and stuff. And when it comes to the RUT, I mean, that's where we're at right now. The super Bowl is just about upon us the day this episode is going to go out. Unless I bomb something and mess this up, it's gonna come out on Halloween. So November Eve, this podcast will be dropping. So it really is. I mean, I'm not sure there's any time I'm more excited than right at the very beginning of it all. So I figured we would just pick your brain on all things RUT and see if we can help some folks out and uh lead to some tags getting filled here. So are you up for that? Absolutely? I can't wait. It's hard, so hard to believe that November is almost see you already, I know it's trying to just trying to figure out and make sure you're ready to go, because it's once it once, it's here, it's a blur, and um, just trying to catch up or you know, keep up. I guess I should, I should say, yeah, I can't wait. It's it's right around the corner. Yeah, it's a it's snuck up on me too. And so so I need an update from you because I'm a little bit behind on some of your video updates and things like that. But early on, you were chasing a mega giant of some kind. There was a huge buck you're after. You were a little bit a little bit uh careful about how much you were going to share because there's a lot of other guys after And I could really relate to that because last year I had a buck that was not a buck that you usually see in Michigan, and I was hunting this deer that was it would have really turned some heads, and so I was kind of nervous to talk too much about it too, So I wait until after I killed him, and then after I killed them, then I showed pictures and stuff. Um, so your story was like, oh, yeah, I know how that feels. So I'm curious, can you give us an update on the giant? Is he still alive? Did someone get him? Um? And then secondly, are you gonna be getting after him soon? Yeah? I'll be happy too. It's definitely a unique situation. I mentioned. I've been on the flight till for nine or ten years and showcasing my hunts and on near real time format, and I've never not shown anything. I never had to really worry about it. And it's not necessarily the size of this deer that that I have to chase this year. That's naked. It like that a little bit. It is, but it's more about, um, you know, just the situation with the neighbors. And I have a body, here's this hunting, and then we're sharing all our information. But um, there's other people that hunt that property, and by giving out that info it would affect his hunting and his chances to kill him. So it just it was a decision I had to make, um with regards to not ruining personal relationships just to show the deer um. And then I decided, you know, with the video blogs, at least still share the journey of it. How people can still fall along even if they can't physically see the photo or the video of the deer until obviously it's dead. Then we can show everything. But you know, it's it's tough. I knew I would, you know, people don't really understand. Some people do. Some people don't. You know, they expect, they've come to expect to see everything on the show, and I get that too. It's just this kind of unique situation, um as so does anything different. I would love to just show everything as it happens, um so, because it's been kind of interesting in that regard. But yes, I am still hunting him. Um I've had actually four encounters with him now, three three on camera. One we've been get any footage of them. But the most recent one was within the last week. I uh thought I had him. He was walking straight to us about fifty sixty yards and a couple of those actually intercepted him. They were coming down different trail and he saw or smelled them and went their direction and never came back. But it's been man, it's been unbelievable this the hunt for this deer. I've I can tell you, I've never been more aggressive on a single deer in my life, especially in Octoba or you know, we're not even in November yet. Enough, I've moved in on this deer, just done some crazy things to get close to this deer, just because I think my time is kind of limited. I don't know when this deer is gonna change his patterns, and I just figured that I have to hunt him while he's showing some daylight movement and I pretty much know where he's betting. He's not traveling too terribly far. I just kinda felt that that was the right move, and even had one encounter where which is this is not necessarily my style either, but it was my only only option. I thought to get closer where he's betting because he's been in a big CRP field, and I moved in on him. I went basically inched my inch to get to the spot I wanted to be. And it took me two hours to go a hundred yards, and I think I got set up at five a five. He stepped out at twenty yards, but and and you know, I'm I'm on the ground behind this tiny little bush. He came out and he was just locked on me. From the moment his rack and his head appeared from the CRP, he was just locked on me. I don't know if you heard me setting up or what happened, but he can't be walked into twelve yards just straight at me, and I couldn't do anything is just I was just frozen. I couldn't I couldn't turn or anything. So he's looking at me the whole time. But to be looking up at a there like that at twelve yards, I mean, it's there's one of most incredible experiences I've ever had. And I can't wait to to share the video with guys. It's that's pretty cool. I mean, the only thing I can I don't know if you ever saw, I filmed a pretty cool buck fight back in two thousand and twelve. Yeah, the one in the creek. That's probably the only thing I can compare to as far as just a surreal feeling and an experience in the woods I've had. That's probably the only thing that's it's comparable to it. So I've been getting close. It's been a pretty cool hunt. And uh, and we talked about only being October. I feel like it's like November as hard as I've been hunting that Jesus. Yeah, it's been. It's been a cool journey. Hopefully it's nowhere near the end either. Yeah. So okay, so you're still on this, dear, It's just about November, so this is probably a good place to start. Then, as as far as talking about hunting the rut. Once November hits and the ruts starts really kicking in the gear, can you kind of describe how you imagine your strategy changing, how you're gonna adjust your hunt given that the rut is is popping. Yeah. I'm a big trail camera guys, so a lot of that's going to be monitoring trail cameras. It's for me, I'd like to target specific deer. In this case, it's it's just buck and then I have another deer that's on the form that I own, UM, that I'm also pursuing. But you know, with chasing specific deer, it's it's all about learning how that deer uses a certain area where he uses it. And that's one thing I've learned over the years is bucks are very individual. Um, there's similarities you can drawl across, you know, years of experience, but in general, I can't just go to a farm and hunt my best stand. It's it's all about what that deer specifically does, how he travels, how he acts and during certain weeks and months of the year. Um. All that So, Sir Tammers plays a big part in that for me and I just learning that deer in his tendencies and and things like that. So aston we'll continue to do with this big deer. If he's showing daylight movement a certain area that I know that I could hunt him, I'm going to keep being aggressive. Um. If he kind of disappears for a while and or the conditions aren't great, I'm not going to get crazy about hunting him, I'm gonna go somewhere else. Um. I imagine this near is kind of travel quite a bit. The property that I'm hunting him on is very small, and a lot of people know about this deer, which obviously means he travels quite a bit. So that's why this kind of goes back to why I was being so aggressive in October. Is I just I know it's going to change it any day. Um, and he's a hundred yards away from jumping the fence and being shot by someone else, or you know, anything can happen. So it's just about monitoring trail cameras and really just figuring out how he changes the patterns and adjusting to that. Yeah, so tell me about your RUT trail camera strategy. Where where are you putting your cameras? At this time of year, is it? Is it different? Do you you know when November hits or when the pre right hits or something. Do you shift your cameras in any kind of way? Um, what's the locations look like for those? I don't shift them a lot. Usually from about the first of October up until late season, my cameras always remain on scrapes. Um. I pulled some cards this morning, and the scrapes here and now are just on fire. Almost every branch that remotely looks like a licking branches at the right height, it's it's torn up right now. So that's where I leave them. And the reason I don't move them a lot is just to keep disturbance down. Um. My experience of scraps will continue to be hot all the way through November. It's just not worth going around and justin too much and doing too much damage when you don't really need to. Yeah, um, but yeah, and then you know what. What show cameras specifically is a little bit off topic, but um, I like to try to have as many elements as possible when setting up a camera, so I usually have a scrape, but it's also usually on an intersection of trails or the edge of a field or something like that where I get more than just the scrape activity. I get the travel routes and directions and stuff like that too. I want as much information from one single camera location as possible. Yeah, I like that. What about how you're specifically setting up? Are you hanging high in the tree and pointing down? Do you put it at eye level? Do you have a certain I don't know. Do you worry about dear noticing the camera at all? I don't I like eye level. I think I may here even just I like quality pictures too much, you know, I think he could probably get away with, you know, hiding them and make sure you don't do any damage. Um. But most dear in my experience, haven't been too scared of cameras. But this this kind of goes back to me talking about bucks being individuals. There are there are some that react differently. You know, some will come in not care, will work to scrape really aggressively. Uh. Some you'll still get their picture, but they know once that camera starts going off, they'll just walk away. Um totally. You know, there's times where maybe it'd be better to to hide the camera a little bit more pointed down, so it's not their face. But in general, I think I just like quality photos too much, and even I use some white flash cameras still too, just because those night pictures are so so cool that I just I know they react a little more to the white flash, but it's worth it in my opinions. Yeah, it's hard to uh, I certainly can relate sometimes those pictures. Sometimes they're just as much fun as anything. Oh man, I just yeah, I love the whole process of from trail cameras, even even well past the hunting strategy aspect of it. I just I like learning about deer through trail cameras. Yeah, yeah, I agree. So one of the things that I'm always debating when it comes to my camera setups during the rut is the fact that stuff changes so fast during the rut. It can be on in a location for today and then tomorrow could be crickets. So it seems like getting trail camera intel quick is really important. But on the other hand, I'm like you, and then I'm really always trying to keep my presence low. I want to be in there as minimally as possible, So I always have this debate internally, I'm like, should I check cameras or should I stay away? And I go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. How how do you think about that? How often are you checking your cameras and how do you try to minimize that impact during the rut? Yeah, I have the same mindset as you. I mean, you want to be smart about everything. By the same time, you want as much information as possible. UM. I do two things. One, I try to set the cameras up in easy to access locations UM places that easy to drive to with the ut V or something so that I'm not leaving grounds and I'm I'm in an area where you're used to see in some type of activity. I want to pull in those. And then the second thing that's really changed in the last couple of years for me is I'm using the system from cutting Back called cutty Link. And that's pretty slick system because you can get UM I think it's up to fifteen or sixteen cameras to communicate to one home camera, so you can put the home cameras and an easy access location and put all the other ones out wherever betting areas just corris places are hard to access. Um, and those those pictures get sent to your one easy to access camera and that's really changed my strategy for for setting upsherial cameras. So informs where I can use that cutty link, Um, I'm more apt to get past the easy access locations system up in betting areas, deep in the timber stuff like that and get that information. And that's that's been a game changer for sure. Yeah, that's pretty nice to to let those sit and not need to go physically visit them. I've I haven't used that in particular, but I've used other cell camera type things like that, and that can help us on Yeah, no doubt, I haven't used too much of the cell cams yet. Um, But that you know this this cutty link, you still have to go to the property and pull the card, but at least you don't have to go visit every camera. It's a huge time saver too when you're checking a lot of cameras. That makes a big difference. So when you when you're looking at camera pictures, to you, I think I heard you mentioned the fact that you're looking at past data as well. Do you pay much attention to annual patterns and see these bucks doing something similar year after year, or any kind of trend like that I do, but not in the sense of like really like micro at the micro level. It's more like general area usage as opposed to well, on this day last year, with these conditions, he walked on this trail. You know, I don't, I don't. I don't go to that level, but I will stay you know, during this first two weeks in November, he was really using this part of the form last year. I'm really going to focus on that and in the hopes that he does it again. So yes, I do look at that, but not at the level that some guys do. I don't think. Yeah, I feel like that's that's pretty well in line with what I found is is you can get a general trend, a general idea like this time of year, he basically he usually starts moving or this area. He tends to get hot at this point. But they're still individual, wild animals that just do random things sometimes whatever they want. Yeah, exactly, and that could just be I just personally haven't seen something like that workout exactly twice, you know, two years in a row. But in general, I agree with you. I think sometimes their patterns are a lot more random. Yeah, So do you have any kind of data like that on either of these two target bucks from last year or previous years that's going to help you one of them? I do. The one that's not not the giant, I don't really have. This is my first year hunting that property. I've helped manage it over the years, so I've never personally hunted it. Um this year, I think seems to travel a lot, just again based on a lot of neighborhood information. Um the other buck that I'm targeting. So a buddy and I bought this property. This is my first farm I've ever owned. I bought it in two thousand seventeen, and he and I had our first hunt together there on November three of two seventeen, and this deer I called Marino. Uh, he walked underneath our treesty and we had a futrail camp pictures of him before our first time, and we kind of decided that, uh, not really knowing, not having history, we're gonna pass the deer. I thought he's made four and a half years old. He walked underneath our trees center very first hunt, like fifteen minutes after getting set up, there's just the coolest experience on the first farm. And you know, I just let's he the lifelong dream of owning a property and have a deer like this walk underneath us. I mean, he's probably he's a really good deer, pushing like one sixty type year as a four year old, and so I do have a lot of information in my hand from seventeen and that one too. This year he doesn't really look all that much different than he did as a four and a half year a little more mass and a lot bigger body. But it is pretty cool having that many years of history and really getting to know how it uses a certain areas. So I like, I have a pretty good idea of what he likes to do throughout the course of late October and into November. Can you describe that? Can you tell us what you think he's gonna do and how you're gonna let let's say the big giant is out of the picture for some reason and now you're just focusing on Marino November arrives. Can you kind of walk me through the stuff you know, and then how you would try to hunt based off that. Yeah, essentially, the uh, because we've got got a late start in seventeen. I don't have a whole lot of October information from that first year, but both last year and this year he slowly made his way from one arm, one end of the farm to the other throughout the year. Um it's been pretty interesting to watch that and think a lot of it has to do with crops coming out and stuff like that. He kind of sucks in once all once all the neighborhood cover starts disappearing. Um So, essentially he started at the north end of our of our farm last year, and he did the same again this year. Pretty pretty nocturnal activity unless if it was this he is moving more tonight or he's betting a lot further away from than where our cameras were at. But he slowly started to do the thing that he did last year. As you get to November, he becomes a lot more active on the farm, a lot more daylight active. He's he's betting kind of back in our main peninsula where most of the other dear bed. Um So he's he kind of made that transition and within the last week to two weeks, I would say, and that's pretty much in line with last year. And then he's pretty much there being the rest of you the year. Um, he uses one main kind of travel quarter. Of course branches out a little bit just looking for dose or whatever, but they kind of used as a central part of our farm. Um. It's just it's all about making sure we can get in and now undetected. It's kind of a tough farm to hunt access wise, but if if we're good about access and keep disturbance down, we should have a really good shot at this year. Has November comes in, that's exciting, So how do you act or how can you carefully access it? Like? What is the solution to that challenge? So the ultimate solution is to put a boat in the water about a mile away and and actually vote in because our our farm is along the river. Um, there's just a lot harder logistically. I don't want a boat so beat far when someone's boat to make it work, and I have done that, We've had some good haunts. I should have done that this morning with where we hunted. But Uh, for me, it's it's an everyday decision on how exul access. Sometimes sometimes I'll drive an electric g TV. Sometimes I'll the u TV way back in the timber not to leave ground cent and try to park it in some brush. Um. Sometimes I will leave it out further away and walk further than you're kind of leaving the ground sent but it's still quieter than driving the U TV. So I don't know. I don't have a great answer. It's a it's just some farms are just harder to access, and there's no real great solution to it, um other than just trying to have some luck on your side every once in a while. Yeah, do you find yourself ever limiting how often you hunt it more than usual because of that? Because I've got a farm kind of like that, and I because of I know that every time coming in and out is going to be more of an impact than I really wish it was. I've been thinking, Hm, I trying to say, I've been really really picky about when I go in and out because I know it's an impact every time just because of that access. Is that something you think about? I do, and that that actus plays into one of my bigger strategies overall, and that's the moving around a lot. So I will I'll hunt it a little bit less, but my more often than not solution is to move around on the farm. Because I'm a big, big believer in the first time in um and not not just first time in on property, but first time in a specific tree, that the success rates are so much higher in my experience, UM, and it just keeps decreasing every time you hunt the same spot. You know, I think we do a lot more damage than we think we do after the hunt. Even if you don't see you seem to spook any deer during that hunt. You know, there's a lot of deer that could come by a day later, two days later, three days later, and uh, figure out what you just there with that's crown sand And they're just very keen of you know, keenly aware of their surroundings. UM. So I will move around almost intentionally thinking that I probably spooked a deer. This is how they're gonna just this is where I'll set up, and I'll bounce around a lot. I do. My haunts are hanging haunts while we're carrying in tree stands, setting them up and then take him down after the hunt. So I like to be very mobile and that it gets me a lot higher percentage of haunts that are first time in because you know, I'm hunting new trees all the time. Yeah, yeah, but that's kind of my strategy. I don't necessarily I had a little bit less when it's bad access, but I probably just move around a lot more when I know there's a good chance i'd disturb something. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, And and I understand the thought process there. I'm trying to do more and more of that myself. What I'm curious about, though, is, especially for people that are just getting started trying to do more of that hanging hunt idea, it can be a little tricky. It's hard to do quietly, it's hard to do in the dark, it's hard to do when you haven't done it a whole lot. Anything you've learned over the years, having done this for so long that could help someone just become more efficient doing a hanging hunt, or I don't know, any way to keep from spooking somebody dearer when you're getting set up, or anything that you're thinking about when you're going in and out doing that. Yeah, Um, A lot of it's just practice. You you need to develop a system that works for you. You know, how you specifically pack your sticks to your stand or you know, maybe if you're saddle hunting, how how you pack everything together. But um, it all just comes down to routine. And the other big thing I would tell people too, is because I find myself doing this still. But it's just it's take your time and be quiet and be safe when setting up. That's a huge one. But I think we get in these situations where it's starting to crack light and you're like, well, I just need to get I need to get in the tree, I need to get set up, and you break more branches, you make more noise. Um, you just kind of start sweating, giving off more sent like all these little things that if you just take your time and go slower, um, that tends to be a little more efficient. You tend to be a little bit more stealthy that way. Um, So you're kind of just telling yourself to take your time. I mean, there's no if you're gonna do more damage by rushing than you are if you just take your time, and even if you get set up a little late. I I when I'm hanging hunting in the dark in the morning, I like to get in there really early. I think we were walking into the woods almost two and a half hours before the official sunrise time this morning. Um, so I like to just get mixed up plenty of time. I'm not afraid to use a flashlight. I don't think it bothers a deer too much. I use a little red light so I can see what I'm stepping on, and so I can see obviously for hanging sticks in the stand. Um, Like, those are the main things. The biggest thing I would help guys that are just starting out on hanging hunting is just be safe. Um, there's a lot more that can go wrong if you're hanging tree stands every hunt and taking down tree stands every hunt. Just always make sure you're connected to the tree. That's a big one I like to push. Yeah, that's a very important point, um, speaking of moving stands and hanging stands you know every day or whatever. One of the dilemmas that I've found myself in a handful quite a few times over the years is it's it's the rut, and I'm in a good rut location, you know, one of those spots that you know should be good for this time that year. Maybe I'm in some kind of pinch point, or maybe i'm you know, downwind of a bedding of a dough betting area, the spots that just scream great rut location, some set up there. But then I see a mature buck, maybe my my target buck, and I see him go moving somewhere else. And then you are sitting there thinking, Okay, should I take advantage of that recent intel I just saw him do something? Do I think he's gonna do it again? Should go moving it closer to the action or do I stay put where I know should be good for the rut, but just saw the bucket want and you somewhere else? Do you do you chase sightings like that? Or will you stick it out for the day or something like that if you know you're in a good location, like I think, the bigger picture question asking is how do you make adjustments during the rut? Is it all based off what you see? Or do you stick to how the terrain should move dear and hope that they come through there eventually? I adjust way more often than I sit and hope that the spot works out based on me thinking that's a good spot. Um. I adjust all the time, even if it's a matter of moving thirty yards forty yards. I do that all the time. I can think back to and not just a specific deer. I'll watch generally how the deer moved through a property, especially if I'm trying to learn a property. They don't have a lot of years experience on UM And that's kind of been my situation over the past four or five years. I've hunted a lot of different new forms, just losing permission, gaining permission, stuff like that. So and it's a lot of fun learning a new property, but UM, you know, it's a challenge to and and my biggest strategy is just learning and adjusting on the fly. So I'll have a hunt, observe what I what, whatever happens, and then I'll move based on what I saw that night or what cameras are telling me of course too, but more often I'm moving based on the actual sightings during hunts. UM. I can give an example of the deer I killed in two thousand sixteen UM as a brand new property I didn't know anything about, and I just slowly started to learn it, and I did a lot of quote unquote observation sits where I could just see a lot. They weren't necessarily out of the game, not being able to kill deer, but it was just spots where I know I could see a lot and adjust if I needed. Then every hunt I would move and i'd move fifty yards one way, and um, just every hunt I would try something new, and eventually I found the spot where most of the deers seem to be moving to in the mornings. There's a tiny little wood lot, and I believe there's November one, I moved in there for a morning hunt to a hanging hunt the dark, and shortly after sunrise I had out a giant deer walk into seven yards and I killed him. And that I wouldn't have done that if it wasn't a constant adjusting game throughout those first three weeks in November. Um, it's just all the piece of lead to that little woodlot, and that's where I killed that big deer. So to answer your question, I do ad just a lot. Even if it's only a small distance like I said, or thirty yards, sometimes that's enough to put you in the game or at least give you that fighting to make the next move. Yeah, but man, that's like the hardest move for me. When you know you can, I gotta I'd see him if I stayed here. But you're right, I gotta move that twenty yards to get a shot with a bow. Making that decision, at least for me, you're fighting a serious amount of lazy human nature. Like so close, but the details just matters so much when you're bow hunting these deer. Um. Yeah, which, and of course there's situations where you should stay. You know, I'm talking in general and my experience. But if there's situations where you've seen that book in the spot you're already sitting before you just happened to be, you know, fifty yards away that day, then maybe I'm gonna sit. You know, if if my past information tells me that that book is still moving here, I may not be quite a zepp to move, But if not, then I would absolutely move. That's a good point. What about and then this is this is particularly relevant to to the rut. What if it's um November three or fourth, or fifth, or somewhere in that early November period, and you see something, you observe a buck your afternos in the morning, would you move actually that day if you saw something that he moves off, would you get down right then and there, get down at mid day and make an adjustment right then? Or do you like to stick it out till the next day. Um. I would say that made a lot of moves that day, because most of the times your conditions are gonna be a little bit more similar that same day than they might be the following day. You know, whatever it is, the temperature change, the pressure change, whatever, it's usually somewhat different that next day. So I would rather hunt those same conditions, and that visual sighting tells me what area he's in right now. UM, So I'm gonna make an adjustment on that as opposed to leaving in having that twenty four hour period where who knows where he's gonna go. I'm probably more out to make that, make that move sooner rather than later. Yeah. Something I've seen a little bit. I've seen it a handful of times myself, and I've heard a lot of people talk about. I'm curious if you've seen this too, is that sometimes during the rut, when a buck's locked on a doll or chasing the dough a dough, we'll we'll take a buck through a certain area, let's say, passes by a ago tree. You'll watch it from a hundred yards away, and if you keep watching it, she might come back through another time or two more times through other daily it seems like sometimes these doughs i've got a buck on them, they'll almost have a loop of sorts. And so because of that, I've always try if I see a dough take a buck somewhere once, I'm going to try to get on that path and hope they've come back through again. Um, have you seen the same thing? Is that the kind of thing you would move on in that kind of case? Yeah, I think I would do the same. I haven't personally seen that. I have her guys talk about it, Um, but yeah, I would. It's kind of I would probably move for the same reason as we just talked about them on the previous point. Just that's what I saw. I'm gonna move there with hopes of them coming back by. Even if it's a little bit different movement than what you're specifically referring to, I still know that I still feel that I'm my chances are going to be better where I just sold them, rather than just waiting it out where I'm at. Yeah. You mentioned the fact that you have been hunting a lot of new properties recently. Yeah, and you touched a little bit I think on a couple of things you probably do. You mentioned observation stands, Um, but can you share anything else you do when you're trying to figure out a new farm. I mean, I don't know. There might be people heading out for their rut vacation. It's their first time hunting this new farm. Maybe in there here for a week or two in November. Anything you do to try to learn in the rut. Yeah, that's the biggest one that has already hit on. Just put yourself in spots that you can see a lot and learn from. Um. If not, if you don't have time, maybe your hunt's a little bit shorter, maybe it's only a week or something. You don't really have time to you know, you can call it a waste of a hunt if you're sitting an observation stand. But um, then it comes down to aerial scouting, and you can just look at a lot of the a lot of stuff, the terrain features and everything that historically have been good for you, whether that's looking for good funnels on the property or ridges or whatever you'd like to hunt personally. Um. But if if the guy does have the time, I've learned so much about properties just being out there and visually observing. And sometimes I've got permission on properties in late October and I've i haven't been afraid to go in there, spend one day, maybe it's a rainy day where you're leftover, since not gonna be as bad, and just put a lot of boots on it, put a lot of miles on your boots and just walk around. Check out how the train lays, check out where the sign is, UM, trails are uh, where the food is UM. I wouldn't be afraid to walk around if you can do it on ideal conditions, like I said, with the rain or high winds or something that'd be best. But it's so much different seeing something, whether it's from a stand or just walking around the property. Then it is looking at aerial map and and that's what I like to do more often than not. Yeah, what's the kind of stuff that you're really keen in on when you're walking around and actually scouting like that? Are you? You know some guys really love rubline, some guys are obsessed with a great scrape area or something like that. What's the sign that you are really wanting to see that will help you zero in on something? I like terrain features that forced movement a certain way. Um. Like that like ahead of a ditch would be a good example of that because usually that comes with a couple of different things. One, you pretty much know how the deer going to travel through there, but two it usually gives you a good direction to blow your wind too. So um, And I like using creeks and ditches and stuff like that for access. So I'm like, I like finding terrain features that that kind of manipulate the deer movement or forced the deer movement a certain way. Um. That's probably one of my favorite ones. I'm not huge on hunting scrape lines and road lines things like that, just because I just by looking at without camera knowledge, I don't know whether that's mills and night or some daytime or anything like that. And they kind of seem to be a little bit inconsistent as far as which bucks used them when in my experience. So I like to look at more terrain stuff like that rather than this actual deer sign with with regards to scrapes and roads. Okay, so you mentioned the head of a ditch. Can you can you just better explain what you mean by that in case people aren't familiar with where you're at, What does that mean? And then when you say that deer have to move around that, just explain what you mean by that. Yeah, So ditches obviously can can be in like in between a couple of ridges and the timber, there's a ditch in between. And depending on the severity of it, how stupid is how how much brush and everything and it is. Deer are you know, somewhat lazy sometimes and they're gonna take the easiest path. And typically there's not very many heads of ditches like where that ditch ends, but there's not gonna be a good deer trail, and it doesn't have to be in real like um steep train either. I have a lot of flat farms that I hunt where there's just one small ditch and they still just don't cross. It's way easier just to walk around it then to cross it. Even though we know deer can hop across it like it's nothing. Uh, they still more often than not we'll walk around the head of that. So I'll find spot like that to set up where if there's trees along that ditch, I'll set up you know, thirty yards going five yards off of the head of that ditch, blow my wind back down the ditch, and uh, I've I've killed some good deer that way, just bucks cruising along the heads of those and following those along the heads of those. It's a good terrain feature, um that forces deer movement, and you know exactly how they're going to use it. Yeah. Can you Can you describe any other terrain funnels or features like that that are worth keenan on during the run? Um? A lot of times we hear these, oh, I don't know what kind of this jargon like, people will say, oh, there's a saddle or oh there's a you know, a funnel or whatever. Do they say these things and then someone hearing it might not know what that actually looks like in the woods though, So it's always helpful. I find it try to hear specific examples from people. Do you have any that stand out that you can describe? Yeah? Um? Another one I really like is like the inside corner of a field. So let's say it's a an agg field or even food plot or something that's got timber on at least a couple of sides of it, let's say two sides, and then it it opens up into a big cornfield or bean field. That corner UM that connects the two pieces of timber is a lot of times a really good spot because like eyes, I think has the tendency to set up on the edge of the field so they see out in the field and shoot out in the field, which isn't necessarily a bad strategy. But I've seen a lot of times where mature bucks, especially, they don't need to even if they can't see on the field, they don't need to come out in the field to know what's out there. You know, they can walk that down wind inside corner and know exactly what's been out there based on set. And so we see that a lot where and sometimes we'll just set up forty yards off of that inside corner, UM, forty yards off the field edge back in the woods, and it's a great shovel rouse. Like I said, especially for mature deer. Um My buddy that I bought my property with. UM he killed one of our target deer uh two nights ago on an inside corner. He was doing just that. Um just didn't come out. Was on a food plot. He didn't come out food plot. You just walk in the down wind side of it. Just just cruising and he was able to kill him as it as a great buck as one of the two targets we had on that form. And we see that a lot so infect corners. There are really good spots too for mature dear. That's a great point. Speaking of the situation like that. One of the another one of these general conundrums that we find a lot is trying to keep deer from winding you, so setting up in a way that you're not gonna get winded, but at the same time thinking about how a buck wants to use the wind. So in that scenario, I can envision that could be challenging if the buck wants to be, you know, downwind of the food source, but you want to be back in that cover where he's usually taking advantage of that. So in that situation, your wind is blowing back into the timber probably in some kind of way. How do you go about trying to balance those two things in that specific situation? Typically, and it's that what happened two nights ago, I can say he was actually, my buddy is actually closer to the food plot, and I think the wind just happened to be blowing that they were so close that the wind was blown over the top of them. But uh, in general, we just like to be on the inside corner, just be back off of the trail or the route we think the mature buck is is gonna be walking. So if let's say that wind is blowing in the direction right to the inside corner from the field out and you know, right into that inside corner, the buck is gonna be downwind of it, and we're gonna be downwind of his travel route. So we just you know, sometimes we give up being able to see what's coming out in the field. And that's a gamble, of course, but we have seen more often than not that's what the mature bucks to do. Sometimes they'll just walk that inside corner first, the scent check before coming out in the field. Sometimes I'll just keep going and if there wasn't anything they they particularly liked about that whatever they smell does, just keep going. But uh, they almost always walked those inside corners, you know, especially if it's just not they're not going off to feed or something. They're just they're sent checking for dos um. But yeah, in general, with regards to your question, I do a lot of times try to keep the wind a little bit in favor of the book. Um, there's a lot of times it takes cutting it really close. UH can provide an example from oh Man. I think it was two thousand fourteen or fifteen. I was hunting a deer, well, the deer, the same deer that was in that fight. Iye film a deer I called George Brett. I noticed from cameras and sightings that he would always follow the wind. So on the north Land he would go north. On the south wand he would go south um. You know, he'd walk with the with the wind in his face. And no matter what, even as we're getting later in November and most of the deer were just always moving in one direction towards the primary food source. He would go somewhere else if if the wind wasn't right. And so I knew this, and I knew with the north wind that he would be walking north um. And my only and I had to set up north of him so he would be directly down wind of me as he was walking. I essentially just moved over about fifty yards um so that my north wind wasn't blowing directly towards where I assumed he was being. Where I assumed he was bedded, so he still had that north window vans. I just moved over fifty yards and um, he came out. It worked out perfect. I just he just didn't quite get in the bow range. Like I said, that's an example of really cutting it close. Um, you just have to move over still, give the deer that that window games that he wants, and how you expect to the move. Um, but in the wind's not netally great for you. That's kind of what you gotta do to get close to him and understand how they like to move. Yeah, yeah, that's a man. It is a tricky maneuver though, and I can't tell you how many times I've tried that and curse the weather man. When the weather man's forecast was not quite right. You're seeing it spinning around. You're like, oh god, no, please, don't don't blow anymore over there. But but yeah, you're right. It does seem like many times those bucks want that advantage, at least that perceived advantage, as much as possible. So yeah, man, you have to think. You have to think like that all the time, and you'll find little ways that that the wind advantage is good for the deer. But it's also good for you. You'll you'll find ways you can set up you know, right on. Maybe it's a train feature like the head of a ditch or something like that, where the winds still in his favor, but he still has to go through this route or through this spot. Um, those are probably the best situations where you know, the wind vange is still good for him, he's still gonna move, but he still can't detect you. Yeah, this is this is totally unrelated to what we're just talking about. So this is kind of off the wall, but just popped in my head as I was thinking through some of the scenarios you've been laying out here, um, and you talked about hunting this one property. I think it's the farm you has recently bought that's on that river. And a river I think is a perfect example of a of a wind break of sorts where you can blow your wind over the river and you know, get away with some things, and maybe there's a bend in the river that a buck maybe thinks he's gotten his favor, and then the bend of the river blows your wind over the water and then he has to curl around and you get a shot. Um, I could see that being a pretty good one. But where that weird thought process took me to as I was thinking through a river, was thinking about I don't remember if it was last year or where it was, but I seem to remember a situation you're in where your property flooded? Is that right? And I remember this right? Did you have a flooded properties on point ye multiple last year? Actually? Okay, So there's been a ton of rain in a lot of places this year, a lot. I've heard a lot of people talking about being in situations kind of like that flooded out areas. Um, at the beginning of October here one of the farms I hunt, I had food plots completely underwater. I had trails completely underwater where I usually can access parts of the farm that I couldn't. So I had that a little bit this year. Um. We just had a ton of rain this past week. So I'm just thinking there might be people experiencing something like that. Anything you learned about dealing with a flooded property, or maybe how that would change the way someone should approach their upcoming rut hunts, anything like that. Oh man, Um, that's tough because I think every every property is gonna be a little bit different. You my property, it was completely the whole farm was underwater. Um, so the deer had to move off to higher ground too. Other properties that there was there was nothing that wasn't flooded on our property. Um. And we we had some deer that were there in the beginning of season, the flood happened and they never showed back up. Um. So I don't know if they just moved off and found the spot they liked better and just never came back or what. I'm assuming most situations aren't exactly like that, but UM, yeah, I don't I don't know. I mean, that's a tough one, just because I think it's it's hard to generalize something like that. Um like that. Yeah, the hardest part for us was, I think this may be a reason why a lot of deer didn't move back, is all the vegetation was either washed away or completely matted down, and so all their betting, well it used to be nice tall grass for them to have a safe betting spot was gone and everything was just matted down and open. So there's still there that cruised around there, But as far as actually betting location, we'd lost a lot of that just due to the flood, and the water sat there for so long and it killed a lot of vegetation and stuff like that, so we you know it it affected our farm tremendously. It wasn't like the water received and all the deer moved back in. It had a pretty good effect on it throughout the rest of the season. That's brutal. I imagined, like, when I think about the scenario, the only silver lining that I can come up with, and this will be different from farm to farm, but I kind of wondered that there's there might be some period of time when the water started to recede where you get water created funnels where there's these strips of high ground. Now deer are forced to move through this narrower area, and maybe that's something you can take advantage of. But that's the only potential silver lining I can find. Yeah, no doubt, I mean, that's all I'm saying. I think every every property is gonna be a little bit different. If if you have a property that has higher ground, and that's kind of a no brainer. Um, there's going to be a higher concentration of deer there, or at least deer using that area, So that's uh, we just didn't have that luxury everything. Everything was flat and everything is underwater all at once. So that's a tough that's a tough situation. So I think last year too, as I'm trying to remember back on like Chasing November episodes, you couldn't hunt that farm. Then you you had like a new project farm I think you were talking about, and eventually you ended up rattling in a buck somewhere, right, Is that how you ended up killing a buck? Yeah, So I for work, I my family and I had to move last year a couple hours away. So my the only form that I had to hunt back home because I lost permission on all the other forms that I managed just because I wasn't gonna be around to help, um, was the flooded farm. So I was forced on brand new properties where we moved to. So I had two or three properties that were completely new to me, and they weren't anything special. They were just, um, just kind of egg forms with small strips of timber or little fingers of timber stuff like that. The project farm was a cattle farm, um. But the farm that actually killed on was essentially just a big bean field, had some good cover in the neighborhoods, some good timber um. But it just it just came down to I mean, I wish I could tell you there's a big stategy behind that one, but it came to being in the rice about the right time and not giving up on that property. I didn't have any shooters on camera on that farm. I just knew by looking at the neighborhood, driving around and looking at the Ariel matt that there's gonna be good deer moving through there in November, and just happened to be there in the right spot that time when when a good buck came out, he came out. Um had two hundred yards away to or fifty yards away when I first saw him. I was able to rattle at him. And that was a situation where I had a wind break. I don't like a lot of calling unless I have a good wooden advantage or I have a visual on the deer. Um. In that case, he was directly up wind to me two yards and he I don't know if he knew he couldn't get down wind or if he just didn't care at that point. Um, there's November eleven, but fortunately he just walked a line with the wind at his back, walked two yards in, so that one that one worked out, and that property actually flooded, but the water receded and they started using that field a lot after that. And so the reason you were saying that, the reason you mentioned that windbreak is is probably because I'm guessing you've seen the same thing I've seen, which is, oftentimes a buck's going to want to approach a sound like a grunt or a rattle from the down one side, right, Yeah, almost always, unless like I said, they're just it's very rut crazed and kind of just in the right mood or um, they know they can't get down wind and there they still believe that there's a fight going on and there's another buck over there. Um. I usually would like to call the deer when I I can see them and go based off of how they react, or I will blind call if I have a really good wind vantage, like a creek or river behind me. Okay, so walk me through then what that calling or rattling sequence would be. Let's say you spot a big buck somewhere. Uh, do you always grunt first? You always rattle first? Do you, does something help you determine what you're gonna use, kind of walk me through your whole thought process when it comes to choosing what you're gonna do and then what you actually do in that scenario. Yep. Um. Typically the conditions like that, and usually that's based on wind speed. So if it's really windy and I don't think he'll here, they grunt or snort weaves, I will rattle at the deer um typically, though, if if I know a deer can hear me, I will start out with just a ground I think that's the least uh intrusive sound or at least challenging sound to a bucks. I wanted to see how he'll react to that. Um. You don't typically or I haven't typically seen dear really negatively react to the grunt call. It's just something that I think they hear more off and then they start wees or two bucks fighting. So I'll start with that if I know a buck can hear the grunt call, and then if he doesn't respond to that, I will snort we's. I love the snart wes call social mature dear. I don't have um, let's just say I don't have too many that just completely ignore it or get spooped by it, They usually will somehow react to it. Um. Whether they come all the way in or not, that's a different question, but usually they that call means something to them. So I used snart Wes a lot. Um. Rattling is kind of a third option, and if if the deer doesn't respond to either one of those, will rattle or I will start off rattling if it's truly windy, Like I said, how, what's the rattle sequence? Like? Is it long? Do you just do fifteen twenty seconds and stop? What's your rattling sequences typically look like? If I can see the deer and see his reaction, I'll just I'll rattle, will make sure that I'm hidden, whether it's I'm rattling on the back side of its three or something like that, I will just watch his reaction. I will keep I don't until he makes a move, whether that's going away from me or coming towards me. Um. I need him too to be convinced that it is a really good fight, like an actual brawl, that he needs to come in and check out. Once he starts coming, I'll put him away and get ready. If he obviously goes away. I'll put him away too, just because obviously he didn't like it. But sometimes you'll see a deer go away and he'll come back around and check it out later, so you're not always completely out of the game. If I'm blind calling, UM, it's probably I would say thirty seconds of a pretty hard hitting. Um. I have seen a couple of really good fights, and it's hard to rattle as loud as two mature books are fighting, so I like to hit them almost as hard as I can for a good toy to thirty seconds. Obviously, just making sure your eyes are peeled and your heads on a swivel, because you don't want to be hitting those things when the deer's thirty yards away and con clearly see you know what's going on, so you just have to constantly be looking around. But UM, that's one thing I tell guys is not to be afraid to hit them really hard. Most most often I think guys aren't rattling loud enough. Yeah, all right, So you gotta be honest with me on this one. Have you smashed a finger doing a hardcore write of sequence? I've drawn blood before. I can tell you that, right, you're really getting after it. That's good. Yeah. And I like to use heavy antlers. Um this it creates more of that deep mass sound to him. Um. That's just I think that makes a big difference to what about speaking of aggressive tactics, what about de coin? Is that something you ever pull out and try this time here? I do not very often. I probably decoy once or twice a year. And for me, it's all about the property and the specific location on that property. If it's property that has a lot of doves, I usually don't think about de coin because I've had just too many experiences where if that those are the first year to come out, it's usually not a good thing. Those just don't react very good to decoys, is my experience, especially at least decourse. I don't I don't know that I've ever used a dough deco way. Um. But if it's an area where there's not a huge population, um, and it's an area where the deer can see the decoy a long waist, you know, you don't want the decoy to surprise them. You know, they come around the corner and there's a buck decoy standing right there. Um, you want them to bill see it from across the field and the other thing. The other key is just positioning the decoy so that it's it's kind of like calling the buck's kind of circle downwind of it. You want to make sure that you can shoot the deer before full it gets down wind. Yeah, yeah, that's it seems right in line with a lot of things I've I've seen a little bit. I've dabbled with it is u picking at the right time to do it in the right place is sometimes the biggest deal of all. Have you got good success with it? Only once? I decoyed in a buck once in Ohio and it was really cool. It was really cool that it worked that way. Um, But I never use it in Michigan because I just think that these deer are just on edge and you put something that out and it'd be would be done zo. But I've used it in Iowa, Ohio and had a little bit of success, So it's cool. Though. It's pretty cool when they come in and find old bristles. I've had some cool hunts over deco is. I just don't use them. I don't think I've ever actually killed a buck over decoy, but I've had some some good solid bucks to come into him. Yeah, it was definitely one of the more memorable kills I've had, just seeing it play out just the way you imagine after watching it on TV, you know, and it actually works out that way. That was That was pretty cool. Um. So what about let's let's talk a little bit more generically about hunting the rut. One of the things you hear a lot about is just putting in the time. You hear this often almost the most important thing many times people say about hunting during the rut is just being out there sticking it out. Um, do you hunt all day? Do you do midday? Sister? During the rut? What's thought on that? I do? Um a lot of times this time of year, unfortunately, and I have to at least catch up on a little bit of work midday, So most often get down for an hour or two, go by to catch up on some work, and then get back in the stand. Um. If I have situations where I know I can spare the whole day, I love. I do love sitting all day. I've had some great hunts where a lot of action happens during those hours where most guys are like I said, at lunch, Um, there's no doubt about. You just have to put your time in. You're not gonna Sometimes you do more damage by getting down, leaving and then coming back in the same stand. You're way better off just sitting there and sticking it out, bringing food with you, whatever it takes. UM, so you don't have to get down and come back in a couple of hours later, you know, when you're just talking about my rug planes in general, I want to spend as much time in a tree as I possibly can. UM build things, true, you can't can't kill them if you're not out there. So UM, just just put the time in, for sure. And that's what's all about. It is, but it's it's also, at least from my experience, it's also easier said than done. I don't know if you've experienced this, but when you're out there and you're hunting as much as you possibly can, you know you've got You've got four weeks in November. For a lot of people, the first two weeks, the first three weeks maybe are game time. You cashing on your vacation days, you call in sick. You you know you've done all your chores, so your wife's gonna be Okay, if you're out there for day after day and you're you're getting out there an hour and a half or two hours before daylight, and you're sitting for twelve hours or thirteen hours or whatever it is, and you do it day after day after day, that is an absolute grind. I mean, at least for me, it wears me down to a pulp. Um, how do you handle that part of it? How do you handle the men tool and the physical fatigue of it all? Yeah, it is an absolute grind. There's no way around that. I don't know anybody that it's not like that for um. And sometimes it's one of those things where just take one day off and you're completely refreshed and you're ready to go again. And you probably look at it look back and like, man, why not even take that day off? But um, it would be amazing this how even one hunt off is a is a big refresher. So I won't be afraid to do that every once in a while. But I like to tell myself that this is this is one month, This is the month, you know, November, this is a month I wait for all year round. You know it's gonna be gone before I know. It. Um, while it seems like a grind while you're living it day to day, it's gonna go really fast and you're gonna wish you had some of those times you didn't hunt back um once November is gone. So that's what I'd like to tell myself. It is a mental thing for sure, um, and it's a grind, But just the other thing is just try to enjoy the experience as much as possible and keep things in perspective. Um. I know a lot of guys that probably put too much pressure on themselves, like I I gotta kill like you know, I gotta gotta there's They put too much pressure on themselves to to kill a deer or to be out there, and they lose a little bit of enjoyment of it. So just kind of look at the big picture, stepping back a little bit and realize what what truly you're getting to do. I think is another important mental aspect of getting through it. So true, and every year I need to re remind myself of that, because I'm definitely the guy that puts that pressure on and I avidly find myself sitting that truly. God, damgn it, why isn't this happening, what's going on? What if this is I'm not going to kill anything this year, and I always have to have like that. I don't know, mental self therapy session. Talk myself through and remind myself exactly what you said. This is supposed to be fun. Enjoy it. Yeah, put you take advantage of November, take advantage of this. But also don't sit out there, you know, bitching a moan into yourself because it's not going the way you wanted to. Um. Try to enjoy it for what it is. And then I do find and probably you've seen this too, that as soon as you get down on yourself at all, as soon as you start to lose hope, that's when the big buck shows up and you weren't paying attention, or that's when he cruised through when you were too busy on your phone or whatever it is. You almost set yourself up for failure as soon as you mentally check out. Yeah, it's like like a lot of things, it's mental. The mental game is a huge part of it, um, And as long as you understand that, you can get yourself through it. But it's all about just keeping keeping your attitude positive and and just really realizing what you're doing and not take it for granted and just enjoy it. Yeah, that's that's why we do this. Ultimately, it's because it's such a good time. So it's to be a shame not to enjoy it while we're out there. Yeah, that's right. And like I said, once, once it's gone, it's you. You just want it back. Um, you know, once once the season's over, it's the depression sets in. You gotta wait another ten months to happen. And it's if you get that in perspective, you'll you'll probably hunt as often as you can while you can. Yeah, very true. So with all that being the case, I need to slip out and go try to kill a big buck right now. Actually, so, do you have any final parting words of advice or final words of wisdom for folks as they head out for their run hunts. Be safe, like I said earlier, Um, there's just there's no dear, that's that's worth you know, some of the bad things can happen, and building off the point we just talked about, enjoy it and keep things in perspective. Have fun. Um, you know, it's there's there's a lot of I think you probably see it just as much as anyone. There's there's a lot of maked ativity and division, it seems like in in our hunting world these days, and just trying to keep positive and and really realize what this sport is about and and um so I just have fun and be safe. Yeah, yeah, great, great reminders. If people would like to see what you guys are up to and all the different shows that you're producing in your content, where can folks find that? Um, I'm not a huge social media guy, but I'd say social media is probably the best way. We have a forty one North Media Instagram account and uh, you know, obviously you can follow us individually on Facebook and Instagram. And then some of the shows that were producing a lot of the Real Tree shows around Real three three sixty five, so a lot of the shows on there were producing, and of course they tell you can follow on YouTube the Middistel website Real three three five. Um, a lot of the smart TV apps, uh is where you can find Real Tree three sixty five, So we're kind of everywhere. Um, but those would be the main spot perfect well. I definitely would recommend anyone listening to check those out. Yesterday morning, my son woke up and first thing it is, he's he's almost two years old. The first thing it is, he ran over to our TV shelf and he grabbed his Buck grunt call off of the little hanger who started grunting on it. And then he starts saying bu but which is how he says buck, and that means he wanted to watch some Bucks. So we turned on the TV and Real Tree happened to be the first app I saw, so I popped that up and I put on the recent episode you guys had with Bill Winky killing that surprise Buck and uh Everett, my son, Everett loved it. He was very impressed with Bills with Bill's recent deer, so it's definitely worth watching. That's pretty cool. I love hearing that stuff. Yeah, it's it's a good time. So, Jared, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I really enjoyed our chat so much. I appreciate the opportunity, Mark, and thanks for all you do for us. Hey, it's my pleasure. Good luck hunting you too. Thanks. All right, and that's a wrap, my friends. I'm gonna tell you this once and that's it. Turn off. The podcast and get out hunting. This is the one time I'm gonna tell you not to listen to more podcasts because novembers here, this is it. We dreamed of it all year. Just like Jared was saying, just like Dan and I were talking about the beginning, this is our super Bowl. Take advantage of it. Hunt hard, put in the work, do the things you know you need to do. If you've been listening to this podcast, you have all the tools, you know the things to do, you know the things on the two list. It's just a matter of executing on it. And I know you can do it, and you're having an awesome season and you have a good time. I believe in you. I hope you have a great, great set of hunts coming up. And until next time, stay wired to hunt.

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