00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number thirty four of The Hunting Collective. I'm Bet O'Brien in today. I am in Kona, Hawaii, at the home of legendary surfer and all around badass Shane Dorian. Shane's a great friend of mine, somebody I admired greatly for his the way he raises his kids, the way he lives his life, all the achievements he's had a long career and surfing and the things he still does today. But one of my favorite things about the guy is that he loves bow hunting and that's really all he thinks about. It's all he thinks about, and it's the most exciting thing in his life right now besides his wife and kids. And if he could hunt every day, I'm pretty sure this guy would and hopefully that comes through an episode number thirty four of the podcast. We were on Hawaii to run around, have a good time with our bows and tow and it was a memorable experience to be there with Shane. So without further ado, Shane Dorian. Hey, Shane Dorian, Hi, Hi, how you doing man? Hi? Ben O'Brien, how are you? We're doing a podcast, aren't we are. We've been talking about doing this podcast for like a long time to be bothering you really Like, You're like, I just want to hunt. I'm like, we gotta record us talking. I guess, I guess in truth, I've been avoiding doing this podcast for a pretty long time. Yeah, yeah, it's been I finally just like hunting. You down to do this, but you just like nowadays, you just like to go hunting, right, I mean, it's not you don't want to be your own podcasts or be photographed or be made to do things. You just want to hunt. But if it means I get to go hunting, I will. Yeah, that's it sacrifice. And so how good of an idea was it for me to avoid doing this podcast until now because you had to come all the way to Hawaii. Come hang on. Hopefully none of my media or ink bosses are listening to this, but yes, podcasts take you places like this. So this is the first of a two part podcast that will be continued in two thous We're gonna actually just stop talking at some point to be continued so we can go back camp be under the stars. Like, so we're in Hawaii, we're on the big island and last night's moon, like where we were camping, the stars was unbelievable, like blew me away. Like Hawaii sometimes just shocks you, even though you know tourists coming here because it's beautiful, but still it shocks you. Yeah, there's something about I think if you're not from Hawaii, I haven't spent time here. The mountains is not something that you really think of. And you know, when you think of Hawaii, you're not thinking about how beautiful the mountains might be. But when you're up in the mountains camping with your buddies and fires go on and everyone's telling stories, drinking cold beers after hunting all day, it's doesn't get any better than now. Yeah, last night definitely was was that good. But now we're at the Dorian Residence, um and done hunting and uh, getting ready to fly back to Montana. I don't want to go back. I'd like to stay here. How how how cold is it in Montana right now? It's got to be like twenty degrees it's probably Yeah, it's like seventy two degrees here beautiful. Um. For those who don't know, Well, let's let's go back to when you were a young gram as you as you guys stay down here um surfing. I mean, most folks will know you as being a big wave surfer. Um. But you grew up doing you know, surfing, living in Hawaii, living that lifestyle. Give people a snapshot of what that was like what when you came up. I think pretty much nobody who listens to your podcast knows who the hell I am. So you know, who's like that guy that hunts with campaigns? Um. Yeah. My story is basically I was born and raised in a little town called Kona on the big Island of White and just um grew up in the seventies and grew up surfing. My family had a little restaurant down to the beach, and so I just grew up on the sand every day. I just you know, that's where I learned to walk and learn to swim and learn to body surf and learned to fish and learn to you know, go diving and all that stuff. So I just kind of, you know, grew up in the ocean and made all my friends to resurfing. And that's kind of what I did every summer, every every school break, um, after school. It's kind of consumed everything. Yeah, were there any when you're growing up, Were there like some you know, there's so much culture here, there's so many shared ideas just the way it happens in this part of the world. Looking back on your childhood, were there anything that any philosophies are just ways of life that made you who you are today, are even big shared ideas? I think I don't know. Um, probably being really respectful at a really young age is like integral and kind of mandatory in Hawaii. Like, um, you know, in Hawaii, we have a you know, this dynamic between the the like local Hawaiian people who have been here for you know, hundreds of years and had a totally um undisturbed lifestyle for a very long time before you know, uh, white people whatever you wanna call them, got here and basically changed everything. And so there's still this dynamic that is there. Um. And so I think it's just the vibe in Hawaii is really awesome, and it's really great and I but I think you just kind of learned to really respect everybody and and show people respect in Hawaii's kind of If you don't do that, you like learn pretty quickly that this is not the place for you. So Um, that's definitely something I think that that is a that is I think no matter where you visit in Hawaii, that's that's something that um. I don't know how to explain that really in any other way. It um and it's not I'm I'm sure it's like that everywhere in the world, but definitely in Hawaii. It it really stands out a lot. Yeah, I mean that's growing up, you know, being in school and being around um, you know, just a lot of people and this and now it definitely stands out. Yeah. I mean, there's just certain places in the world where you know, like a Hollywood producer would come be like, I can make a show out of that because there's connective tissue things that happen here that just don't happen in other places. You know, there's a lot of TV shows based in Louisiana around the Cajun culture. What that means this is the Hawaiian culture is is similarly interesting to me because there's just a lot of things that go on here that don't in other places. You know, I'm sure it's you can tell me if I'm wrong, but there's you know, food and family and you know, everybody's an uncle everybody you know that culture is is powerful. Yeah. To me, it's funny. I feel like, um, in the US, the two states that are more like their own countries are Hawaiian Texas. You know, not that I visited all everywhere in the US, but tech this really kind of stands out as having its own culture, having things that are really like unique to Texas. And I feel like Hawaii is kind of the same thing. If you come to Hawaii, it's almost you feel like you went out of the country. It's totally different, different culture, different kind of people, different kind of food, different kind of way of life. You know, it's just um. Yeah, but I like it a lot, like the slow pace of life. And I've traveled a lot in my life, and Hawaii has always been the place I always wanted to come home to and happy to be born and raised here. Yeah. I mean in your late teens and you start you surf throughout your childhood, but then your late teens, uh, things started to get serious. Yeah, So I got really into the surfing thing and got pretty good at it. So I started doing a lot of like amateur competitions, and then I ended up wanting to pursue it as a whatever you want to call that, um as a job, I guess. And so I moved over to a law who by myself and went to high school there kind of put myself. UM. I'd work in the summers here at home on the Big Island, and then I would save about my money and I shipped my car over to Oahu which each year and stay there to serve big waves and you know, train and and uh compete against all the best kids. And then I uh graduated to high school and UH kind of chased my dream to become a pro server, which is uh, you know, I basically traveled around the world for about fifteen years competing full time. And you had you're telling me about a documentary that's coming out on HBO that kind of chronicles that time. You know, that time in your life and the friends you came up with and the filmmakers you worked with, Like there's some revolutionary ship going on there. Yeah, it's it's kind of a it's a funny story that I we never really thought would be told, um in this way, but yeah, moment it's called a momentum Generation and it's a documentary film that's being uh put out a HBO and it's really good. Actually, it's great. It kind of chronicles a time I'm that was setting like the late nineties, early two thousand's actually like mid nineties, early two thousands, where our group of friends were all the same age and really good at surfing. We're all kind of coming up, uh, a few of us from Hawaii, a few of us from California, a couple from Florida. And then we all basically became friends because we were all pursuing the same dream and a lot of us came kind of like from broken homes and kind of crazy families, and then so being on the road, like our friends are sort of our friendship became our family. And so we traveled together and hung out together and lived together for like ten years, and it kind of tells that story. It's pretty cool, pretty cool, Yeah, transformative for you. I mean, like I can't begin to ask you. I'm sure there's a million stories you could tell about that time, like how many countries did you surfing? How many places did you go? How many nights did you spend in hotels or hostiles or wherever the hell you stay? We would basically there was a group of us that were kind of like between eight and eight and twelve people, and we would go to like a European leg of the tour where we'd serve in um France, Spain, and Portugal and do like two events in each country or three events in each country, and so we'd be there for like two like two and a half months of the year, and we'd go and we'd rent a couple of houses and rent a few rent of cars, and so they be like six of us in each rount of car with like a with like giant board bags, Like each one of us would have like six or eight boards in a big board bag on top of the car. And this is back in the day when there's no phones, like you'd literally have like a like a map, like a rental car map, and be like driving from Spain to Portugal or to France, and we're just a bunch little kids, like you know, nineteen twenty years old. We'd get there and the place we thought we had we didn't have, so we'd end up like sleeping on the beach and our board bags and freezing to death, and then we'd have to surf and contest the next day. But we kind of just like grew up on airplanes and grew up traveling by ourselves with no parental supervision and no one telling us to, you know, go to sleep early, no one telling us to prepare for the contest, no one, no one telling us to not chase girls, no one, you know, And it was so it was it was a really fun time to be that age and a really amazing way to grow up, for sure. Yeah, I mean would you uh, how would you categorize that reckless living? Or did was it just was it calculated like we're driven, I want to win, I'm here to win, or was it more just like I'm having a good time rolling my boys, doing my thing. It was more of the ladder for me. I mean there, that's that's what's interesting about the story. And if if anybody wants to to see the film, um, it will be on HBO really soon here, uh, depending on when people listen to the podcast, but um, like no, I think it's like November eleven on HBO two thousand eighteen. It'll be out there for everybody to see on HBO. So um so yeah, like for for for me and a few of the guys, we were more casual. I was trying really hard to to win, and I was competing and trying to compete for a world title, and and for a few years, and I definitely got really serious. But there was a couple of us that became extremely serious like pursuing those goals and pursuing the world title year after year. And it really took its toll personally on on for those couple of people, and then it also took a toll on our friendship just in general. Um, And so that that's a really um there's there's a lot of parts of that story that are really interesting. And but our our collective group is still super super tight now that we're kind of like most of us are retired from full time competition. There's only one of us, um, Kelly Slater, that is doing his last full year right now of competition. So so yeah, we're we're still a very tight knit group of friends that um, we're all most of us are all in our forties now. So yeah, we can kind of like look back on the on that time of growing up and just go, what the hell house, how do we get so lucky? You know, because that was a wild way to grow up, in a wild way to be you know, eighteen years old and I was a two younger around a car and I was traveling, you know, like eight percent of the time out of the country. Yeah, there's nuts and he never like I find with things like that, you just didn't plan. That was just what you did to surf, like, you just did it to serve man. I mean, I was like, what what job can I do to where I can surf as much as possible and see the most of the world and surf the most waves and welcome to everybody in the hunting industry, Like, yeah, what job can I do so you can hunt the most the world? Shoot my bow? That's right with my buds. There's a lot of parallels, right, Yeah, there is a lot of parallels. Because if there was, if there was a hunting World Tour, goddamn right, I'd be on it. Yeah, I'd I'd make you come with me. We'll roll around. That's the goals. Someday we're on you know, we're gonna be on the bow Hunting World Tour. We'll just make it up in our minds. Yeah, we'll just say, hey, we're going on the world Tour hunting. We'll be back in a couple of months. Everyone's like, what are you talking about. That's the world tour. It's the World's very costly. We're poor. But yeah, you were telling me, like most surfers even today are poor, Like, oh yeah, even the pro surfers, I know, we're talking about that. It's like, um, there's there's a lot of people that are really chasing the dream and they just doing it just because they love the lifestyle and want to travel and see the world, and and that's their dreams to is to you know, surf full time. So it's it's it's definitely a grind, it definitely. You know, from the outside it looks really you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of upside there, but if you do it for a living, it's it's like everything has it's good parts and it's bad parts, but it's I've been really lucky. I've been doing it for a very long time. So yeah, I mean, and what you do is dangerous. It's not. For those who aren't initiated to what exactly Shane is talking about. You have to go just search Shane Doran Jaws or really just Shane Door. Yeah, Shane Jourdan surfing and watch the videos of this this man going down a wall of water how many stories high? I think sixty ft or something sixty ft high? Uh, and surfing along it like it's nothing, and doing that day after day and those types of scenarios or or year after year. Like, did you describe to people kind of what it is to or undertake something like that? I mean, it's true. Yeah, So I mean I I So I competed full time for like eleven or twelve years or like fifteen years really, but like anyway, um, and then I got really burnt out come competition. Then I I decided to stop competing. So I decided to stop competing and pursue big wave surfing. So I always always always super passionate about chasing big swells around, and I never really had the time when I was competing full time. So I ended up putting a lot of time and effort into chasing giant waves as soon as I was done competing, and that became my my focus and my that's what I was just like super motivated to do. And so I train year round and get really physically and mentally, um psychologically fit for surfing the kind of waves that no one wants to surf, and um, yeah, I love I love it, I still do it. Yeah, you were saying that in the in the ride up here today that um, it's not up there's physical part of what you do on the big wave side, but it's mental. It's like what's that what's that look like in your mind? Yeah, I mean as far as like I mean, like we're talking about the kind of waves that a lot of people have drowned in. I've I've lost like a lot of friends who have died surfing big waves, and and in those kind of conditions, it's like, you know, you might you might wait six months for one of those swells or a year for one of those swells, and on that day when the when the waves are giant, you know, I mean, that's that's how call that Mother Nature makes. That's not something that you're like, Okay in May, in the second week of May, the waves is gonna be giant. You just have to be like totally prepared all the time. And that's that's really different about surfing is if you have a call for you have a cold, or you have a sore ankle or whatever, doesn't matter the waves You're still gonna be sixty ft that day in the best day and year. So just one of those things. You got to be continuously prepared for that. And that's what's really unique about surfing giant waves, and so from a mental perspective, it's a lot of like being prepared training, making sure you have all the right equipment, making sure your boards and you're all your gears all dialed, and that you're physically and mentally fit all the time. Rain. That rain, that's good. Yeah, that's rights just started raining. We're wondering what that noise was. It was like, it's weird in the headphones. I couldn't really tell what that was. It was the rain. Okay, makes it calm. Voice is gonna come. Yes, it's raining for those who are listening. Um, but I can't see where we are. It's pretty sweet. Here is your house. Yeah, man, I'm just going up here, and I'm like, I can't I can't imagine Shane Dorian like not living on the like living on the beach. Right, I got it here. I'm like, this is better. Like you have a view of the ocean. It's not like an ocean view, but you can see the ocean. But there's all this native forest around here. It's like it's a legit jungle. I mean, this is that's what you how I would describe it. I mean it's beautiful four thousand feet elevation and in the in the rain for in a you know, like a native rainforest and wild boars running around and you can just jump off the deck with your bow and then go run around. Yeah. Man, I every time I come to Hawaii, I feel like I've never vacation in Hawaii. I don't know what it's like to go to Hawaiian resort and like drink my ties and I don't know what that's like. I've only ever hunted here. I've only ever hunting. Every time I hunt here, I think like this place is badass. I don't want to tell, you know, I don't really want to tell many people. Luckily not a lot of people listen to this. But it's just like a I don't know if it's It's New Zealands a little bit like this too. It's just like the way these islands function, the different animals that differently, just the different feeling when you come here. It's hard to describe, but you know it well. I mean it's just you know, you've hunted around. I've hunted around. I would say that the hunting here on the Big Island and and here on Lanai or wherever is as unique as again. It's like just it's a different We have our North American Madela Conservation, but this one is this is not that. Um no, it's it's it's yeah, it's definitely a lot different than there, than your mainline sort of set up. Yeah, for sure, we'll get back to that. I want to get through that. We'll get through the surfing park because we have to. Then we'll get to the hunting part because we want to. Um, but where were we with your surfing? Yeah, I mean that's the mental state of riding a sixt wave and not dying or you know, putting yourself in that like immense danger willingly. Yeah, I mean that's that's what it is. It's just like being on your game is no different from like being this is gonna sound cheesy, but like being like doing any super dangerous job like being a race car driver or whatever. It's just like you have to be committed and um, in that moment you can have no hesitation and no, there's no like aspect of your mindset that's like, oh, maybe this is a bad idea. You have to be like fun, Yeah, I'm doing this and it's and no matter what happens, no matter what the outcome is, I'm this is happening right now, and so it's cool. It's kind of like liberating in a way to like leave a lot up to Mother Nature and the the whatever is happening in the universe at that time, and just being out there in the ocean on the biggest well of the year and being like I'm gonna go out there and bring my experience and my skill and um and see if I have what it takes to make it all happen. Yeah, I mean it's We were talking again on the way over here at some point during a trip about a little bit about how the pressures of hunting and you know, the position you put yourself in to get to get it done, to work hard and get something done in the wild places we go to do all that changes you in a little bit, like it, you know, changes your perspective on life. So the way that, yeah, you're more pragmatic, you're a little bit your anxiety is a little bit less because you know that wild places out there and you can disconnect and you can have that is there's something and surfing when you know that you're going out there to chase that danger or to put yourself in that position, does that change the way you live your life? That change your mental acuity or like how you see the world around you when you come back society. Yeah, for sure. I mean it's it's uh, there's no way to talk about it without sound sounding kind of cheeseball, but um, the extreme intensity of the situations you put yourself in with really giant waves and is our ore are are those experience are so extreme you feel like you're like really really pushing it as a as you're as a human, Like you're at the edge of like where you should be, the way past your comfort level. Um, And sometimes you get yourself in a position where you'd never intended to, you know. So you know, when that day is over and the swell goes away and you get back home, everything just seems so relaxed and the stress level is solo and there's nothing to worry about. You're not going to die in the ocean today and you know that. And and for me, I have a I have, you know, two kids and a wife at home, and I got a lot to lose. And I don't serve big waves because it's yeah, I can get really close to dying. That's not what I'm doing it. I love surfing big waves. I love the challenge, and I love I love the camaraderie with the guys who choose to serve big waves. Um, I have great friendships and I just love it. I dig it, and so like. The danger aspect is not why I do it. Part of the dangerous aspect is part of probably why it's so exciting. But I love the excitement and on the challenge for sure, and just trying to I think the thing I like about it most is like the the mental test, the mental test of in that moment, can you keep your ship together? Can you keep can you maintain that focus and and and really rely on all the millions of experiences you've had in the past to bring yourself to this one moment where it's all on the line. I dig that, and I think that's super super similar to why I'm so drawn to bow hunting. I feel like that that's same. I've never felt anything like that with life any other experience, any other sport, an other anything where I feel like they line up almost identical to feel the feeling the emotions that I get when I'm bow hunting, because servings like that, it's like tranquil and cool and hanging out your buddies and everyone's everything's awesome, and you love it and you do it for the experience, and then all of a sudden, these really intense, like climax moments where it's all on the line and it's really really high stress situation where you have to keep your cool, and I feel like bo hunting is the same way, and it really like this week, this last couple of days hunting really like codified it in my mind that that all those things are so similar that you all there's such good around the moment, that critical moment where you have to let that arrow fly and do it in such a way that is you kills the animal and kills it humanely and you do your job because it matters, like it matters in that in that sense of word. But everything is surrounding is awesome. Like we were leaving your house to drive out the camp, we were kind of like giddy, little like let's go man my bows on. Oh shit, Like it's shooting good, shooting good. We're gonna have a great time. Man, we're gonna go. We're going, We're going, We're going. And we got there. We're like we're here, We're sucking here. And then we're like little kids, yeah, walking around on the rain. Go We're doing it, man, we got rain the best. It is so good. And then and then like all that kind of goes away in a moment where you are now it's just you and the animal. There's nothing I can do to help. There's nothing that you can do to help me. There is no way that that anyone could could sit beside you in that moment and tell you what to do, Like, you have to do it yourself. And I think I guess the different thing about your surfing and hunting is usually in hunting no one is watching. Yeah, Like you internalize the pressure and you put it on yourself because you know that you owe it the animal. You know you've worked hard for this, but it's all internalized. There's no I've said this on the podcast before, like Jim Nance isn't over there going and Shane Dorian steps up, draws his bow and imagine if that was what was really going on, and then that was happening in live, you would completely change what you were doing. But honey is an internal there's an internal mechanism that you apply pressure to yourself because you know how important it is to kill that thing for any reason. Well, I mean in the moment of truth. For me with surfing, if I screw up, everybody sees it. In the moment of truth. If I'm bow hunting, if I screw up, nobody sees it. That's my bad And that's my bad arrow that went flying into the animal in the wrong spot in the animal. That's that's me who wounded the animal. And I have to live with that. But I don't have to tell anybody about that. No, I didn't shooting arrows today. I didn't have any I mean, while there's some elk like limping over there, you know, it's like, so I think those are those things like in bow hunting, that are that that are really unique to bow hunting. It's like in those moments, there's there's a lot I think um and I think that's part of the job bon hunting too, because you have to make make those decisions and make those choices all by yourself, and then you gotta come back. Yeah, you gotta come back and report to the world. However you do that, whether it's just your buddies in camp or you're sharing it with social media or whatever. There's this this man, there's this that you could just be virtuous, right, you could just tell the story that makes you look the best or makes hunting look the best, or you can tell the true story, which is this ship is messy. Sometimes sometimes you screw up. Sometimes you feel like you're the best bow hunter in the world, and then the next day you feel like the worst. And I don't I don't care who you are. Even the best bow hunters make big mistakes, telling you like, we've both hunted with some of the best in the world, and there's mistakes made, and there's animals wounded or there's animals that take four. That just happens to everyone, and if it doesn't happen to you, please call in. Yeah, let us know your secrets. I know there is no call in line, but calling anyway, calling anyway, but that I just think it always says one thing and having these podcast conversations that I've realized is exactly that like hunting is internal to you, Like you have the ability to shape your your the way you function in the woods, the way you think about animals, all those things and share that with the world. But when it comes down to making that shot, it's you. Yeah, well and you can come back, you know, you can come back to camp with your bow and just say no, I didn't get a shot, even though you wounded an animal. But it doesn't matter if you tell the truth to your friends or your buddies or not. You gotta live with that truth. I mean you, like, you can't lie to yourself, you know. I I've I've funked it up on a shot before and couldn't sleep at night thinking about that animal. Um. So that's just something that as a bow hunter you need to own up to you and deal with and do the best you can do, you know. But like, no, I mean, nobody's born a perfect bon hunter either to become a good bon hunter. Yeah, and you've you've experienced that, I mean, you didn't. You're one of the growing number of people that took on hunting later in life, you know, I would say, and you went through you went through a lot of what I went through as a kid in your thirties on your own. And there's a lot of people, whether you know it or not, but I do, just from people that right in and talk to me about this podcast and and just any other thing. There's a lot of people that are listening to um. You know, our mutual friends like Dudley and Remy and Joe Rogan and going and wanting to go hunting and picking it up on their thirty five and have three kids and need someone to tell them how to do it or what to do or how to think. When I was a kid, you just shot the deer. We didn't think we canna talk about the philosophies or round it or ideologies or why it was important to the natural world or any of that. Ship. We just shot the deer and had fun doing it and never questioned it. And then here you are. You're in your you know, your thirties, you pick up a bow. Now you have the ability, you're an adult, you have kids by then yeah, probably is right, is right? I started bow hunting right before my wife got pretty with my son, my first kid. Yeah, so you're you know, you're married, you're having starting a family, and here you are, you know, doing a lot of big things in the world, and you're probably more equipped to take up hunting, right Is that just too yeah more mature? Yeah. Um, describe your like your first how you got your first bow, and how you got started, because it's a pretty good, pretty good story. Yeah. Well, for me, I've haven't really ever known anything except for surfing really, and um, you know, I always always like grew up at the beach, and my work was at the beach in the ocean. Um, so I was always like traveling to places that was it's always the beach, right, And so I always fantasized about living up on the mountain like where I live, where it wasn't hot, where the ocean wasn't right across the street, where the surfing wasn't like a one minute walk. So you know, I I ended up getting some property in building a house way up with the mountains at four thousand feet. And um, as soon as I started living here, Um, everything I would plant would get dug up by wild boars. You know. I mean there's just wild boars everywhere, and so they would just just destroy everything. And so my buddy gave me a gun and said, if you shoot a couple, they'll scram and probably not come back for a while. And so I shot two one or yeah two, and immediately realized that I'm not a gun person. Um, so I gave the gun back to my buddy. Um. I have nothing against guns, but I just knew they weren't for me. Just the the noise and the vibe. I don't know, I just wasn't my thing. And so my neighbor was a bow hunter, and I became friends with him. So I'd go over there and uh a couple of beers in the afternoon and shoot arrows. And so when I got a pretty good grouping, he took me bow hunting. He had a couple of trees stands on his property, and the huge boar came in at night and I sucked everything up. I tried to put an arrow on and then I and then I drew back and my arrow went flying off the rest and ding ding ding made the noise and the ball pigs went went bolting into the forest. But I was hooked. I was like, this is so hard. I just screwed everything up. The animals right there, they had no idea. Just everything came together and and the next day I went and bought I used Matthews. The next day I was like, this is it. I want to become a bow hunter. And you said you bought it from the Hawaiian Ted Nugent. I bought it from this this guy who lives down the chief of my house. It sells archery gear out of his house, out of his like spare bedroom. Um because at the time there was no archery shop. So he had a bunch of used bows and literally used broad heads, used broad his and so new ones too. But I was like, I would go and get like hundred grain muzzies and used grain and he's like, oh, they're all shoots the same, it's all good and um. So I just grew up. I I just my whole start to bow hunting. I had no mentor of really like, hey, get this bow, Here's the kind of arrows you want to shoot, Here's how you want to stand here, here's how you do it, here's the here's like the cheat sheets you know here, here's here, here's the cliffs notes to everything you need to know. I kind of did every like bad move in the book, like um, and then I realized a really really good older for a really good friend of mine who's about ten years older than I am. Um. I ended up going hunting with him, starting to hunt rams up in the mountains, and he was just a really accomplished bow hunter. He had been bow hunting. He's in his fifties at the time, and he'd been bow hunting since he was like eight years old, seven years old, and bow hunting the whole time consistently. Him, his brother's uncle's grandpa, everybody bow hunters. So he took me under his wing and taught me a ton and then I started hunting like every week. I'd hunt like one or two days a week every week for like maybe five years. So I was getting hundreds of days in the field and that's just here. And I was starting to go to Maui Molokai lan I, and so I was getting like, you know, I was hunting like a hundred days of year some years or maybe a little bit less than that, but a lot. And in a weird why there's no bag limit. I mean, you bet I have a full quiver. If you go up, you know I had hunt if you you know there's a lot, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of hunts. You come back with one arrow or no arrows um and so yeah, so I went from like zero to one real quick. Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's how you live your life. It makes sense. But yeah, I mean, but I felt like I found it late and I wanted to make up for lost time, you know what I'm saying. I was like, I love this so much. I'm pissed that I didn't find it earlier. I was actually angry that I didn't find that I didn't have a dad who hunted, that that I grew up and had those memories of like being in the mountains of my old man. I was so jealous of friends like that, and I grew up with a bow in their hand. So I was like, ship, I'm gonna make the most of it. I'm thirty, all my thirties, all my fourties, all my fifties, all my sixties, all my seventies are gonna be hunting to this day, Like dude, I'm trying to retire. And oh yeah, that's I mean. Literally, it's scary. If you if you knew how much I thought about bohunting, you'd be scared. No, I wouldn't be scared at all. I would be happy. But yeah, I mean it comes down to you know that it's interesting to me. I'm trying to get my thoughts together around like the conversation of your started hunting. But it's interesting me that you you take on surfing from a young age, and would you say, like you you know, you went hard and maxed out? That is that true? Like the right way to say that you went hardest ship for a long time, became the best of the best, and then like now you here you are relatively at a young age, kind of winding down that portion of your life and winding out. You're hunting probably on the more like the um the professional end of the surfing part. I'm still totally obsessed and in love with surfing. I love going surfing still after forty years. I literally like when the waves are good and I'll go surfing with my kid and surfer hours and now the best time ever. I love it. I choose to go surfing, and I don't. I don't do it because I get paid to go surfing. I dig it, And even when and even when it has nothing to do with work for me at all, I'm going to continue going surfing because I love it. It's hasn't like somehow doing what I love for a living hasn't sucked that up, which I loved that about it. Yeah, because I can suck it up for a lot of Yeah, you know, even for me, I've haunted a lot over the last decade and it doesn't matter. Yeah, Like I'm just my mind goes to I can get it. I can be home for about a week and if I haven't thought about hunting or doing something hunting related, I get depressed, seriously depressed. My wife has seen that in me and has said like, if you gotta go, you gotta go. And we're talking about your wife as well, like being away traveling the world doing your thing. I mean, you have a a job that takes you away all over the world all the time, and I do as well. But my wife said something that recently about I'm glad that you have a passion. She was like, I'm glad I want you to be here, and I want and I know you want to be here, but I'm I'm glad that you have something that you love so much that you can go do it and come back. Like I'd much rather that than you sit around here and and go to work round the nine to five and come home watch TV. It's like, I'm much rather to have that. And I was like, I love you. Yeah, And that's that's very unusual, I think, But I think it's I think it's She's right. I think it's true. You much rather have that and be be pulled in two directions then just pulled in one direction, you know, if it's you know, work, family, work is also your passion, the thing you want to do. Life's way Richard. For that, there's a lot of people who are married out there whose wife fell in love with them because they were this person who had all his passion, and then to get married, and then all of a sudden they get grief for going and doing all the things they love to do because they're not home as much. And then a lot of people stop doing what they want to do and love a whole lot and stop pursuing their passions, and then for the wife, and then the wife's like, I don't like this guy anymore. He's kind of boring, you know. So it's like you gotta be unapologetically, you know, pursuing your passion no matter what. That's who makes us who we are. And hunting is part of me is who I am now, straight up and that's the truth, and I'm not trying to hide that fact. And um, my wife knows that. And if I'm like being a dick around the house, she'll call my my buddies and be like, look, shame's being a dick. He needs to go hiding for real. You guys need to plan something and go hunting. I've got that problem, same same problem, Like around the house is an issue, but we were out there. So we're out camping, you know, in relative middle of nowhere, and like you could see it on your face and I'm sure you could probably see it on my face, like we are more comfortable, enjoyous and in our element in that place. Take us to town, put us in an airport. We're not that. And I think that's probably I think surfing probably, I'm sure did that for you. But um, hunting is just like a derivative of one to be away and be disconnected and be you know, more connected. We were in camp with five people and I felt like the conversation around the campfire, we're better than you know, more laughs, more of just bullshit. Then you could recreate in any circumstances. No restaurant, no dinner party, nothing could recreate that. There's just no small talk either. Yeah, he's around the campfire, so it's like there's silence is fine, and then if you're laughing, cracking jokes or telling hunting stories or whatever, it is great. But if you have nothing to say, you guys can just chill out there. Everybody's there for the same reason. You know, I just unplugged for a few days. Food tastes better. Yeah, all foods. Somehow it tastes better. I would can tuna yesterday, and the ship is great. It's canned. Dune is delicious. Uh, sleep is somehow better, Like not having a shower doesn't bother me at all when I'm in that situation. Going to sleep dirty with face paint on your face is something so good about that. I borrowed one of your kids pillows from his bed, and I felt so bad, dude, like face paint just like my face and printed on his pillow or Jackson. But yeah, I was thinking that I'd wake up and be like, dude, I'm it's five in the morning. And I went to sleep at a ten thirty and I walked eleven miles yesterday and this is, and I'm I feel good. I don't feel tired, I don't feel depressed. I don't feel anxiety or stress, even though the thing I'm doing is way harder than what I do on a daily basis. Heny well, I like it. Yeah, I love it too. I don't think I could ever get I mean, I say this because I live in civilization. But like when I wake up in the middle of night and opened my eyes and I'm in a tent, and I was ship I'm camping. Yes, I'm in a tent. I'm gonna sleeping pad, Like there's something so good about it, Like I like romanticized the thought of camping. But I swear I just I feel like I'm like, I don't know, I just feel like I'm a better version of myself when I'm out there and dirty and hunter all day and I'm tired and I worked my ass off and and I got frustrated because I missed or whatever it was, like, whatever the story was, whether it's success or or sorrow or frustration or whatever it was, it's like just being out there with your buddies and doing what we were Like, I feel like that's what I was meant to do. You know, and that's why like food taste better and even for me. I figured this out earlier this year. I've said this before on this little podcast show that every year I try to at least once a year whenever it is. I don't just sit down on like a day, but I try to sit down once a year and then re examined my hunting, like what's changed over, what did I learn over the last year, Like what won't I do anymore? What do I do, whether it's gear, tactics or just just things that I won't do, like way as it weighs, I won't represent myself, or types of hunts I'll never do again, or types of once I want to do every year, things like that, like re examine type of hunter I am. But then it comes to like trips like we just had that felt like just pure, like everything was right, the place, the people. That's when for me, you're at that heightened sense of like it's just straight up joy. We we hunted in the rain, We hunted all day long. Like I said, I was eating like candy bars, a shitty tuna yesterday, sitting in the sun, like loving life. No no sheep around, no move flowing around the hunt. But it didn't matter. It didn't matter. Uh, And I can't. I I wonder how people that listen to this, that maybe don't hunt or have familiars don't hunt, see here that and it translates to them, because I'm not sure what other people's lives have or their passion is about. You and I are about bow hunting in the freaking mill of nowhere. As you know, I can't imagine sitting in a chair watching football getting anything close to what we got. Yeah, well, every everybody has their thing that you know that you know helps him deal with stress, and everybody has their thing that helps them like become who they are a better person and who they are, And um, I mean some of those people's ideas of of what's good for their stress levels or whatever is my worst nightmare and sleeping in a tent and being dirty is most people's worst nightmare. Yeah, that's why, that's why it's cool. That's why, that's why you want to talk about behind the people and they're just looking at me like, the hell are you talking about? Cannot relate to you at all? The hell are you doing? You're out they're killing animals? You know that's all they think is a ballot or whatever, and there's nothing you can tell those people to explain anything, so it's even really trying so well. We were riding in to have breakfast this morning, baby, wiping the face paint, like three day old face paint off our faces so we could go have a pancake, and I get stared at. I was like, this moment is badass, you know, like you have it, And I was thinking the same thing around that time when I'm wiping the face paint off. I spent a lot of time. I'm not that vain a person or whatever, but I spent last time looking in the mirror every day. I spent a lot of time caring about what my clothes look like or what like. I spent a good amount of time on that stuff, probably average, but still I spend time working around with that. When you're out camping, just wake up and the clothes you have on, and then you put a pack on and go. As long as you're warm or dry, that's only thing that matters. Doesn't matter what you fucking look like. And we put face paint on it. We weren't over there like drawing, you know, writing your kids initials. Face man, we were just covering our stupid faces up so that she wouldn't see it well and as fast as possible so we could get hunting. Yeah. Yeah, there was no art to it. Gnarly. Yeah, that's my one of my favorite parts. But this, yeah, the hunt we did kind of combine being out in the wilderness and archery and you know, camping and like all the best things. I think, Yeah, I think for sure it ticked every single box that I could ever want you hunting, from the camping part to the camaraderie with really good people and like learning I mean uh, I mean, like uh, one of the guys on our on our trip, John, he had um. I hadn't met him before, so I couldn't meet meet new have new friends. And it just there was like such a everybody jelled super well and there was you know, let just everything was epic across the board. I think that's the only way to fly. And we were talking about this on the drive up here too. Is that the hunting community, you know, which you came into more recently than a lot of folks, is like has missed that a little bit, you know, has missed a little bit of the experience. And again, like you said, everybody gets on podcast now and talks about that like you can say it, and that's almost virtue signaling at some point, like hey, i'm it's more about than just the killing. Of course, of course, yeah that's true. But you know, when you tell your story, like when I hang out with you and we talked about honey, we don't immediately start flipping out pictures of dead ship and flipping through it like trading cards. We don't do that. That's that's not because we're trying to make each other, you know, im press each other about art, but it's because we fucking love it. And there's all million things to talk about. There's a million things to talk about rather than just the killing of the thing of the animal. One of my favorite things about about all this is like just being there and learning about new animals and where they live, like in the terrain, like whether it's access dear on Lanai or Maori, whatever it is, like where they live and they thrive and they're in their element and they're like their way of hiding, of running, of sleeping, all that stuff. Just learning the ways of an access dear. You can't be kidding me. That's the best thing on earth. Learning the ways of muflon Rams and the mountains in Hawaii is that's incredible. There, those creatures and the way they are, the way they run, the way they bought each other. How crazy was that when they're ramming each other in the heads, that was crazy. They butt heads. They did this full on, like square off thing where they go whack back and they literally are fighting over the chicks right in front of you, and just their markings, the white on their their big old white saddle and big black beard and the giant horns, and they walk around like they're the ship, like they're like the king. Yeah. But then juxtaposition to you're watching that and then about three or four hours later, it gets dark, just sitting around the campfire and somebody hands you a plate with bacon wrapped move flaw on that you just it's all walking around like that is. Man. If there, if there's not a better way to interact with nature, you know, somebody should tell me. Because you're interacting with it, appreciating it, taking from it only what you need, and being nourished by Like come on, man, there there's a lot of ways to interact with nature, and not all of them are good. A lot of them that are non hunting ways are great. But that's a pretty damn fullproof way in my opinion. It's pretty cool when it comes full circle during the hunt. You know, like a lot of times you go hunting, if you have success that you clean that animal or you or you like you, you quarter it and take it to a butcher. I don't know, everyone's different, but and then you you know, you go home, you process it new burger, or you freeze it, and then you'd like, you know, a month later, a week later, you do de frosted and make a stake for your family. That's great, and that's awesome, and I do it all the time. But those days where you walk back to camp with a backstrap and you get that backstrap out and you put some Montreal steaks. He's not even put on the fire and all the boys are eating it right then. The thing was walking around two hours ago. It's like there's something about that that is just so Yeah, it's living man. Yeah, yeah, we're just kind of like this podcast is just catching you and I coming off of the high of doing this ship. So hopefully people that are listening. Can hear it in our voices, like we're not We're not making this up. We're not saying we're excited. We're not trying to convince anybody go do what we did. I like, it's not for everybody. A boy. I love talking about it and I love doing it. And if I hope it comes through in this because it's certainly when I go home, I wouldn't be like you said, to flip it through my phone if you love my kid too. Though I look look at pictures of my kids like, oh that's cute, I love that kid, But then I flipped, oh, hunting, love that too. I want to hear what. I want to see that when I have those memories, because they're they're the memories. Are are what all about? Man? And you and I've hunted New Zealand and I here now together, Like there's some great memories in that, and you know that was there's some I have a lot of perspective on life that I wouldn't have otherwise. And these are not you know, going to hunting public land and in New Zealand is not some you know, aristocracy activity. It's not only for fancy rich people. Anybody for anybody can have that. If they want that adventure and they desire that, you can go get it. It's out there. Yeah, and you can come here and hunt too. I mean it's not you know, there's public places to hunt, here, ways to do it. It's gotta dude research. So we're an hour and we gotta go pick up your daughter and she had school or ballet. All right, We're gonna take some some questions here real quick. I've been doing this and it may or may not work. People that are listening, right and tell me if it's lame or it actually works. Is this on your Instagram? Yeah? Looking at them. It's the story questions. Hopefully there's some good ones. See. Oh well, we already covered this one. This is a sweet Camo girl. What a sweet came A girl. He's a big Listen that she says, where do you find more peace in the woods or in the water? Yeah? I think we answered that. Yeah, but that's a huge part of the reason that I love bow hunting is the same as surfing is is uh, the stress level goes way down down for sure. We say woods like on a quickally, what you say on a clivically woods is the place over the water. Yeah, because bow hunting, I mean surfing. I'm usually surfing with the people. Yeah, probably half the bow hunting I do, if not more. I'm by myself. I love that. I love a bow hunting by myself. H me too. Um, we're talking about that in camp today, Like Jonathan Hart was in a camp and with the founder Sit Kenny. He was saying he loves hunting in pairs, like he loves the strategy. He loves like you go this way, I'll go that way, you glass, I'll go He loves that back and forth, and both of you and I were saying that. Yeah, but hunting by yourself is pretty freaking awesome too. Yeah, Like there's not one is better than the other. And that's what makes it so cool, is is I mean hunting with a friend too, and being being right there when your friend is to full draw and you see that all happening in real time, and then if you're the guy there and your friends right behind you and the pressure is on and he's gonna watch you make that shot. That's to share that experience with a really close friend like that is it's really freaky cool. And your friendships are made closer by that stuff. Yeah, like and to hug it out right afterwards, you see, I don't go down and you hug and scream like little girls. Day two, we were hunting in the pouring rain after this giant ram and you went up this hill because like we thought we were gonna kill it. You went up this little rise and I stayed at the bottom and they were just on the other side. They were just like thirty yards on the other side. And this is the ram of a life time and I'm down there. I was not. I couldn't never been more excited than any moment of my life other than like the birth of my son or something like that. I was. I was back there going like my hands were shaking. I'm like, draw, draw, He's gonna do it. He's gonna be there, He's gonna be there, like super disappointed when he wasn't there. But that even just being on the sidelines for somebody else, Well, when you when you when you're with your buddy and one of you shoots and makes it happen and it all goes down, you're like you're there's someone right there to give you that feedback, which is amazing. But when there's nobody there to give you that feedback. It's amazing you're just standing there. Do you ever just like when when you're standing there with your bone, you're looking down your but I just did that, this just happened. I need to go there clean that animal right now. You walk up and you get your meat bag out in your knife, and it's just you, your knife, your meat bag, and animal, and it's like it's just like you could have sucked the shut up. You can suck up that too. That things you just sitting there, and the longer you wait, you know, you can easily mess up the meat. Care a part of it, and that's that part is like a whole other pot cast. Yeah, well that that's too. I'm sure you do the same as I do. Sometimes when I shoot an animal and I'm by myself and I don't know what to do, I just look around. I just make sure to take look around and take it all in and from and just look around, look at where I am and think about how I got here, and then just be present for a minute rather than like, oh I got a million things to do. I got It's like give it a minute. Give it a minute, because especially for me, hunting in Hawaii for muflan in a beautiful place is not something you know, maybe I'll never get to do it again, hope not. But like it's worthy of it's worthy of some reverence in the moment. Yeah, let's see what we'll we'll see what else we got? We got well this, uh who whiskey? Pete asks, what's your ideal surf and turf combo that you can harvest yourself? Like if you spearfish maybe, and you I'd say on no tacos and and um on no is a Hawaiian where for wah who I think you got? Wah who? Yeah? So whah who tacos um and then I'd go with access dear, access to your backstrap or access to your tennetline one or the other. Yeah. If anybody has an argument against that, then go fund yourself. That's pretty hard to beat that. That's delicious. Um. See if we got one more good one here? Oh we we've already covered a lot of these awesome questions. That means we're doing our jobs. What was the moment that hooked you? What was the ultimate moment that hooked you on bow hunting? Was there one moment Shane Dorian. This is from Toby McNeil. Uh. Honestly. The thing that really sunk it self into me where I knew there was no turning back is after I read Cameron Haynes's book Back Country bow Hunting. I got so inspired by that book. I knew very little about bow hunting at the time, but I could shoot about twenty five yards. And I read that book and in the book, for those who haven't read it, you should read it right away. Epic. But he he talks all this stuff. I was just such a novice. It was all news to me. But he went into like his experiences of like planning and training floor and setting up these rad backguard drew bo hunting missions with his buddy or by himself, and it got me so inspired. I went out and and got like all the ultra light, get like a ultra light. I was so excited. I cut um ultra light, sleeping bag and ultra lights, still little cap stove and like the tent, and I just went rogue. I started like doing. I did one big trip in the mountains by myself here uh here in Hawaii, and carried all my own water and as in the mountains, and I killed a big ram and I walked back to my tent with fresh meat and cooked it up on the fire and like that was it. Now. I remember like looking around under the stars eating my round that I just killed and in my tent, and I just was like, you gotta be kidding me. I've never This is like if I thought I had lived a hundred percent before that, I hadn't. You know. It was like a whole I take that away from this podcast living like yeah, yeah, I think at the base of our human DNA, we're trying to like max our potential. You know, whether you're a seven year old soccer player, you're trying to maximize your potential, like the absolute top. And I there's those those fleeting moments in life as a human. I think where you're like, this is it right here is happening, and as soon as you get it, it feels like it's almost gone. And that was one of those moments where I was like, this is it. It's happening right the second, take another bite. I can talk about that forever. Man. That is a great concept, and I think we're hunting is just a celebration or humanity. It's something of because we've been doing it for freaking ever millions of years. So that's a good place to end it. Um, thank you, SHANEO. Yeah, thanks for having me and it was fun. Yeah, we're gonna do it again again to podcast tomorrow. Yeah, the next day. You know, a couple of months, I'm gonna be like, hey, Ben, let's do a podcast pretty soon. You can be podcasts lately. That's gonna be We did do another episode, man, Honey, honey, me and Ben are gonna do a podcast again. Honey, we really got We're working on the scheduling for by. It's a seven day podcast. It's in the him Alaya. It's gonna be great. Yeah, all right, thanks bro cool, thank you. That's it. That's all episode the thirty four in the books. Thank you to Shane Dorian, his wife Lisa, and his two awesome kids, Charlie Jackson for let me stay at their place, run around Hawaii with them, learn about the culture, learn about the hunting there, and do all the week did. It was an awesome trip and I appreciate their hospitality. I hope you learned a lot from the conversation. That's Shane is one of my favorite people on the planet Earth and in the meantime until we get to the next awesome conversation with somebody that we all can learn from. You should go to the meat eater dot com and you should go to the listen tab, and you should start with the Hunting Collective of course because you love it so much. But you should also check out meat Eater podcasts. You should also check out anchored podcasts. You should also check out Wired to Hunt podcast to find out what's going on with all those wonderful folks and get an update from the meat Eater Incorporated team. And then when you're done all that, you have some extra time, go click around the website, read the articles, get some knowledge, learn how to cook, learn how to hunt, learn how to fish, get informed. All those beautiful things are done at the meat eater dot com. And then when you're done that, when you're done all those things, you have some extra time, sign up for and this will save you time later. Sign up for the meat Eater newsletter. On the home page. You'll see a little sign up sheet you just hits sign up now. When you signed up, your email inbox will be gifted every Wednesday morning, gifted new articles, fresh articles, from meat eater dot com or you can to Hall of Lovely Things we talked about. You're gonna learn how to do stuff, trust me. So that is it. That is all. Episode number thirty four was great. I can't wait for episode number thirty five, So come join us next Tuesday morning. We'll see you then, Sa

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