00:00:01 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to episode number three of the Hunting Collective, Coming you back home in Austin, Texas. I know. Number one we were in Mexico with Stephen. Now number two we were in Salt Lake City for the Western Hunting expot with our boy Ryan Callahan. Uh. Two great episodes of great conversations. Number three, we're back home here in Austin, Texas, and we're joined by Aubrey Marcus. UM. If you're just a hunting fan, if you're a guy that's listening to this connected in the hunting industry, you may not know who Aubrey Marcus is. You may never heard of his company on It, of which he is the CEO, and you may have never heard the term total human optimization. I don't think any of that matters for this conversation, because, as you'll find, Aubrey Marcus is philosopher, he is a deep thinker. He's a man who practices psychedelics to better his life, not to just get the high. And he's one of the more successful people you've ever meet, both spiritually, personally and professionally. He just is emanates success. He is uh someone that I greatly admire, not only for what he does and his visit, how he speaks. UM. You can find him, of course on the Aubrey Markets podcasts. They tell me there's ten million downloads on that thing on iTunes, which is crazy. Um. He just released his own book was published by Arburak Collins, Owned The Day, Own Your Life, just about optimizing your daily life and getting back to being better. And just to say this, there wasn't some arrangement here with Aubrey and I where I would have him on the podcast just to promote the book, as is the general parlance for UM appearances and stuff like this. I've hunted with Aubrey a couple of different times, UM Bear hunted in Alberta. Most recently, as you'll hear in the podcast. We had a great time. Were connected. He's just a great dude. So when I was thinking about who I'm going to get with to continue this awesome conversation about hunting that we've been having, I thought, what a different mind, what a person to explore this with that Aubrey Marcus is. So that's what I did. I shot him a text I said, dude, can I come over? Um too? On it which is headquarters in Austin, Texas and just hang with you and have a conversation about what what you do and what you think and open up a little bit of the doors of hunting for Aubrey and let you guys in on on what he thinks. And so that's what we did. That's what we did. I know this is a long winded way of saying, welcome to podcast number three, But anyway, welcome to podcast number three. Enjoy Aubrey Marcus. What's up man? What's up that he's living the dream? I don't know. Everybody says that, but no, but you actually might be. Maybe I think you might be too. I might be. I might be. Listen. I don't want to get into aren't we though. If we're not, then then then we should be. Well let's figure out. Let's yeah, let's figure out if we're not currently living the dream, how we can get there before this hour and this hour glass is over. I don't want to get into like, hey, tell us about yourself. I would I would much prefer you tell me about the time we went bear hunting and you had experience with a bear, the psychedelic experience where a bear spoke to you. Am I right? Remember that, right, Well, yeah, I mean I've had that experience. Happened multiple times, and that wasn't actually during the hunting trip. That happened before and uh yeah, right, so you had that experience and that we were going bear hunting and there was a little bit of a like the interaction you were looking for. To tell me, I just wanted people to hear about that. I feel like that informs So yeah, one of the first times I was doing ayahuasca. Um Aahuasca is a South American plant concoction that combines a vine, the actual ayahuasca vine, with some d M T containing leaves like chakruna or ope yah he or wambisas these very rich green leaves from the rainforest, and they pound out the vine and they brew it into this tea and it becomes very psychoactive, psychedelic, and they used it in a lot of their healing practices. Apologies to those of you who know what I wask is, but that's a little bit of the background. So I've gone down there and participated in some of those indigenous ceremonies and you what seems to it seems like you have contact with other entities, other visions that come and maybe these come from your own mind, or maybe these come from somewhere else, doesn't really matter, because they're very instructional and educational and very profound on your life. And one of the visions with a bear, um happened like a rookie. John Dudley, John Dudley should the podcast John Dudley, Hey on podcasts on podcast with Aubrey Marcus right now where you're interrupting. What's up John? Hey? Brother much man? What are you doing right now? I'm driving back from Oklahoma from That's what we call hunting us. But John Dudley goes out, it's a you just so accurate. Yeah, it's no longer hunting. It's killing, it's killing everybody. Well, um, we just want to say hi, and I'll call you back later and uh we'll talk him. We'll talk, all right. Thanks for You're welcome, brother, You're welcome, man. Yeah, look forward to catching up with you. Are you good? I was gonna have a special guest. We had that my first time that you. That's lucky. I like that especially it's John Dudley. Dudley. Ah. Yeah, So anyways, I'm in this visionary state and I get this image of a bear, and the bear is like weighted down with all these gold chains in a crown, and he's like wrestling against it, and he's like trying to move, but he's just like he's covered in chains, like more than Mr T, like way more than Mr T. Just chains weighing him down all over the place, and he's trying to move and trying to run, but he can't because the gold is so heavy. And I'm watching him do this, and he looks at me, the bear in my vision, and goes, you know, I remember before I had all these gold chains in this crown, when I used to be able to run free, just like a bear. And then instantly like flashed back to his younger self, before he had all this wealth and accumulation and status, and I'm the king bear when here's all my wealth. And he was just charging through the forest, and then I was like became like one of the bears and we were like charging through the forest together, and it was this really cool like visual representation and reminder of you know, a bear really stores all of his wealth on himself. It's free to roam and rub trees and chase things down and fight and fuck and do all the things. It has no attachments to anything, and then it just goes to sleep and wears it off. Whereas in that image, when the bear started to become more like a human and where his wealth externally, then it actually slowed him down. It actually prevented him from being what he really was at his core, which is an animal that liked to roam and like to be free. And you know, it's very much an analogy for what we humans do to ourselves, tied to our houses and cars and possessions and wealth, and always concerned about this or that and our status and are we king or are we not king? Whatever, all of this nonsense that prevents us from actually being the human organism that we are. Yeah, now, I found that when you remember you telling me that on the drive up to camp, and the goal was maybe not to like face down a bear and figure all that out, but that was your You had that you know, psychedelic relationship with a bear. That that it struck me as that I would never encounter someone in the hunting you need that would have that that relationship or at least mental acuity to be like I have this relationship with the bear it's like a delicate It came in a different world that I you know, I took ayawaskin then I experienced that. So I always thought, how different your perspectives are based on who you are and what you do and the experiences that you've had that very few people that I've met, you know, outside of Yeah, I mean I have a deep connection with with that animal and the symbolism of that animal. I mean, you can track it back to some of the druid lore where you know, the druid name for bears art and that was you know, Arthur is like the bear king. You know, it's like it's a symbol of kind of they're the king of the forest in that way, just as the lion might be the king of the jungle lines and lines aren't even in jungles. That's a weird saying, right, that's a movie that we can but you know, so there's from that saying to this other I I you know, I bought a ranch at the foot of Bear Mountain. It's like this animal that just keeps coming up in multiple ways. But I hadn't had any visceral experience ants with the bear. So I went and you know, prepared to hunt one. But I knew that if that bear, if the bear was coming, you know, it would show itself and I would know that was the one that was the one um And you know, I was calling out and seeing if that was going to be the time where I would have that you know, hunting death experience where I'd actually be able to consume the flesh of that bear. But that bear didn't appear. I had you know, young sALS and um you know, different different other bears. Nothing actually came that I could take a shot at. But it was still an awesome experience because I'm there in the woods and you know, in some cases ten feet away from bears, and you get to see their curious little personalities and this how natural they are um as an animal and got to understand them. So while I didn't get to kill and consume one in the same way like, that experience was still incredibly awesome for me. Well and you still and you get to learn a bit of natural history of the animal. I don't know about what it ate, where it lived, it, did you what it's what it's what it was like, only like really observing it and being super quiet and being super focused and like being completely in tune with your surroundings. I mean, that's the awesome thing about it. You're on the ground with bears and there's other gnarly bears around there, and you know like you have to kind of be you have to kind of be focused. Well, that's the thing about bears, especially is it black bears where we were in Alberta. Um, those bears are for all intense purchases docile like they they give off the emote this like docile nature, and when you're you're ten feet away from him, you're not. I don't know what your experience was, but my experience wasn't too immediately narrow back and be defensive. It was to be aware, like to be where it was there. But but also at the same time, you know, not we go running hide and crawling the tree. Um. I found that to be. But you also understand you're at the mercy of the nature that bear. If that bear decides it wants to rip your face off, it has every ability to do it, and there's not a lot that point you can do about it, so that the unpredictable nature of that animal still exists even though you feel like you're in this quiet, serene observation mode. You can never switch off that your own animal mode. I know, yeah, because when those bears start creeping towards you, you know, you don't want to show fear right, like you want to just like check them a little bit, like hey, you know yeah, and then they go like, hey, y oh, no nothing, I was just I was just exploring. But that's one thing like in in the podcast that that I've tried to put out there the first couple that we've done. The most feedback I've got is the conversation of value systems going into hunting, like how we value the animal. I think we all anybody that goes hunting UM. We'll talk a little bit more about your history in it and then kind of what you want to do in the future, But anybody that goes hunting a signs of value to the animal with they're hunting UM. And we discussed, like in the hunting bubble, what that looks like. Maybe it's not always the best value. We may outwardly value the animal, but internally we may fetishize its antlers or you know, some part of it that isn't That isn't the nature of hunting in and of itself. When you in that experience that any other hunt you've been on, how do you find that you explain the value of that animal as you go. I mean it's a good that psychedelic experience in the relationship. I think maybe touches on that a little bit. But is there a deeper Yeah, I mean I don't think I ever appreciated meat until I went hunting, you know, like as conscious quotation marks as I try to be, and as spiritually in tune as I try to be. You know, I ate cheeseburgers with fucking impunity. You know I ate steaks and tenderloins with fucking impunity. You know, this was just meat. I hadn't been part of the slaughtering process. I hadn't been part of the hunting process, and you know, I had obviously an understanding like, all right, this food came from an animal. I'm not deluding myself. But I didn't really get it until you know, I went and hunted my first you know, black buck. It was a black buck though, that was the first animal that I successfully hunted, and that just recalibrated everything. And it was really interesting because you know, for me, that act you know, I've been part of Native American spirituality, South American spirituality, where hunting is kind of part of It's just part of life, and there is no distinction between your spiritual life and your hunting life and your sex life and all of this. It's all just kind of woven together. And so for me, you know, I did my best. You know, it was hunting with a rifle. At that point, I wasn't um adept enough of the bow to try and take one out, so you know, before we went out, I said a little prayer over the gun and over the bullets so that the you know, it would be accurate and swift, and you know, then went out and UM, finally, at the end of a really long day, found a dough and UM took the shot. It was clean, and then came and you know, ran over and and it was still alive. And I had a small pocket knife that my uncle gave me, not pocket knife, like a holstered sheath knife, and UM, you know, kind of put my hand over it and put the knife through its heart to kill it. And at that moment, there was just nothing but this feeling of just profound gratitude, like some of the most you know, and I said another little prayer there of thank you to the animal. But this this profound love for that animal, and that's something I think that non hunters would never understand. And like, at that moment, it's probably the most I've ever loved an animal that wasn't like my dog or something like that. Like, I've never loved an animal more than that moment as I had my hands on its still warm body, and it was just this radical expression of gratitude, and that was just a total game changing, paradigm shifting moment for me. It was like, holy shit, this animal that was once alive that I was walking watching track down the things, it's now died and it's now going to feed me, you know. And right now, even now, it's skin is underneath my alter at home, and every day that I go into meditate, you know, I like handles on it and I see it and you know, the meats long gone, but um, but it's still there with me in that moment, even more importantly, it's still there. But it wasn't even just that moment of that profound love and gratitude for the animal. It was the process of skinning it and then quartering it and then feeling like, oh, I understand why you know why these different parts are softer than these muscles. Why the haunters are harder because they're the muscles that are more sinuy used for climbing and running. And why the tenderloin softer because that muscle is only used for quick cuts and it doesn't get used all the time. And you know how the backstrap is another one of those muscles that like every different part like you get it, and then so like when I ordered those parts, I'm like, oh, no, I know even if it's a cow, like I get it, I get part of the animal this is from. And man, it's like, I think it should be like a fucking pre prerequisite that you should have, like a mere eating license and your meat eating license. You have to hunt and and fucking butcherself. I said, what if you had to? You had if you want to have a steak, you had to go down to your local butcher shop or some factory farm and take a nailgun and black a cow in the head. You had to You had to then gut the cow, pull its guts out, butcher it, pack it up, ship it out, and then once you're done that, They're like, thanks, you past the class, past little test. If you get a little laminated car that says you can have steak now. And then you go to the store and they're like, sir, I'd like to see your license, Like you want that ribby, I'd like to see your license, And you're like, okay, well here's my cow license. I don't have my chicken license yet, but I'm working on it. Yeah. Man, that's what hunting is like. It's like getting your deer license. It's like understanding now that that that this piece of venison is something more than that. And the other thing I would you know that strikes me from what you were just saying, is that when something dies that you love and you appreciate, you feel gratitude. Right, it's one of your family members dies, or your dog dies, or just anything leaves the earth that you appreciate and love and have a relationship with, you feel gratitude and so or oh, and you know, there's a lot of emotions that go with that. I don't everybody doesn't have the same ones. But I think one thing we've never discusses as hunters is that those emotions are natural, because that's something that has just left the earth and by your hand that you you went out into the woods. You didn't put that deer there, but you took it away. And appreciation is one of the things. You feel gratitude when somebody dies that you love. Yeah, and I think maybe there's an impulse to kind of hurry through those emotions. And it's like, you're not tough for a real hunter if you you want to be like those action heroes you know that kill somebody and have some witty one liner and a blase smile or something, you know, but like, I think it's cool to take that moment. You know, take your moment, do you like maybe if that is you and the first thing your instinct is is for the chocolate or whatever, and that's your authentic expression whatever, I'm not going to judge that, but like, don't feel compelled to play a role. Don't play like the badass hunter guy. Like, if you want to take a moment and cry at year or two, like, do it, you know, and if you're with somebody who wants to do that, don't make him feel like you for doing it. You know, Like to allow people to have this experience in their most authentic way and know that you know, there's no one way that makes you better or worse for doing that, like have that, you know, have that experience, you feel you have different feelings now and you eat a steak or you eat chicken or just you know, I can forget, you know, like I can certainly like eat a chicken tender and dip it in ranch and buffalo and not think at all about the chicken, probably because I don't have my chicken license. I need to get my chicken. But it's true though, even what you said about your cow license, like it would probably be better for me if I did butcher a cow, you know, because I certainly d percent of the time if I go to like Lonesome Dove and to get the venis into the elk or something like that, that's like I get it. I understand what I'm eating, and it's there's like a much deeper appreciation. But and cows, I'll try to get there, but I sometimes just slip up, and sometimes it's just to stay, and sometimes it's just a cheeseburger, and sometimes it's just a sausage and um, And so I think it would be healthy for me physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, if I hunted more and I just need to make the time to do that, like that is a that is a personal practice that would assist my you know, evolution as a human being. And I would you know, dare to say probably all the different animals that I eat, you know, from fishing, you know, and actually cleaning the fish. That's something I haven't really done. It usually catch the fish and bring them somewhere and then they get clean and then they get fished. That's not the whole thing. That's just pulling and reeling. Like you gotta go through the whole process. You cannot rob yourself of that, of that experience. There would be a lot of licenses you gotta get. I mean, it would be it would take you a while. Yeah, I mean I have got that with the like spear fishing, you know, spear fishing, I've gone and done the whole deal. Like I did that in Hawaii. And that's even to me. I I love, you know, we have some guys that at work there that delivered two mistakes every once in a while. I love this town mistake and it's one of the most delicious things I've ever eat. But I don't have I feel weird. I feel in my home, I'm always eating something that I pull out of the freezer around me. Look at the Look at the vacuum seal pact. Oh cool, access to your Hawaii nine seventeen perfect, Remember really quick. I remember that time when I missed eight of them and then I shot this one and I was excited, and you remember that. So like, I feel like in my home, you know, store bought meats unwelcome because it feels weird now not you know, not that you know I live in some temple or something. I just live in the house. But I feel I feel as though it's kind of unlike lunch meet is a little bit unwelcome in some ways. I talked with my wife about that, and she said, well, you need to kill some more turkeys this year because I want some white meat. Right. So that was a conversation we had last week, is how do we achieve this in its hole as opposed to you know, just kind of live in half half asked at it and which you know, it's would be hard to go out to restaurant be like, here's this elk I kill that, could you cook it up? And then bring it over to me, So you have to head your bets. But I feel like my home being a place where I live and I cultivated that place. I kind of want that to be that dinner table. Can you should? You know, and then if you can't, you got to at least once or twice, you know, if you're gonna, if you're going to, you gotta just you gotta do it. You gotta go all the way. Like we're ritual is a big thing for me in my close inner circle, and we have a bunch of very close friends, and you know, we're always trying to think of different ways that we can kind of challenge each other and see things about each other. And my fiance, Whitney is a way better hunter than me, a lot more experience and just like she's like a savant. It's like she like most things and everything. She's like like she's like just feels the heart of the animal and just shoots like I've never seen anybody. I've been with a lot of really good hunters, I've never seen anybody that site and shoot faster. It's like, I mean, it's like it's like a military operation, you know, Like like like Tim Kennedy like seeing a fucking insurgent like that kind of speed. It's just she just as soon as the crosshairs hit across, like the gun goes off and it's just shocking for everybody around. And she hits them through the heart every time. And and anyways, like so her and she's gone through the process a bunch and she wants to take her girlfriends like through that process. Most of them eat meat, but you know they're like hunting, ah, you know. And she's like na, like na, bitch, Like you gotta you gotta know this. You gotta feel what this feels like. This is like, this is part of being a human. This is like the this is the antie to the game that you're playing. You know, you don't have to be fucking world class you know, poker player here, but you gotta you gotta antie up. Yeah, Well, when what was the first time you had the urge to go hunting? Because I know it wasn't well that was as a kid, you know, but I was hunting, not and I was hunting. I was just killing them. That urged to kill is something that's like deep in us. And my parents gave me carte blanche on the rabbits and squirrels because they were garden ravaging little beasts, and so they were like, yeah, take all them all as you want. I had a bow then, and I would be just trying all day, roaming around my ten acre property, just looking to blast shoot the ears all rabbits, totally man as savage, you know, and and those those moments of I didn't even I hated actually when I shot it, because then I had to go finish them, you know, if it wasn't like a clean shot, and like that was like this really shocking experience because I had no purpose behind it, but the the art and the skill of like trying to kill this thing with just a string I hadn't I didn't even have sights on my bow, so I was shooting instinctive so instinctive compound bow, and I'm just kind of roaming around and trying to catch these things. I mean, that was something that was really drawn to. But then when you actually do it and the animals like squealing and you're like like a ten year old, eleven year old kid, You're like stop yelling, you know, and you just try and find something to to finish it off with. You know, that was definitely a more traumatic experience than probably I was bargaining for. But that impulse to hone those skills is I think something that's in in eight and inborn in humans. And I just wish i'd had someone who could, you know, like me, if I had a kid, you know, I wouldn't just say, hey, kids, yeah, I go kill all the things in our yard, like let's go do that, like I would, you know, try to show them that the right way so they could harness that impulse in a more productive way. And you took a break from hunting for a stretch. Yeah, so I well, I went, I went from killing, and then I did I did some bird like some bird hunting. That was probably the most consistent hunting. I would go see um, a family friend out in Maryland and he had a lodge me to hunt some ducks and pheasants and stuff like that. So I did some bird hunting. Um, but it was a long time before I went back to, uh, you know anything with fur um and fishing was consistent and uh but yeah, that was you know, it was only five four or five years ago that I had my first hunt. And then I went bear hunting with you guys, and I haven't been back, and it's not from lack of desire, it's just from you know, lack of prioritization. I also haven't set foot on a golf course in two years too. Both of those things i'd really like to remedy going on. Yeah I do, I do, but man, I'm like super eager to get back. The only thing that scratched the itch, which I'd love is spear fishing. Spear fishing is like snorkeling and hunting. Had a baby you've never ever done? Oh my god, going to Hawaiian like two months and I've got to do it. It's the It's like the best of both of those things. I'm done. It's it's incredible. I mean, there's there's the gun one and the gun one's dope, but you know, it takes like a super long time to reload, and it's kind of tricky because you got these these cords and whatever, and if you really your aim is shitty underwater. Um, I like to just a long pole where you just pull the rubber band back and let it go, because then you can just keep keep keep blasting. Yeah. I've got a lot of friends that do it. A lot of guys in Hawaii. I know they're surfers that just live all that stuff, the stories in the way that they find fish and laying on the bottom looking like coral and and you know, having fish swim right up to you to pop up. I mean, that's that's hunting. It's incredible and you've got to have really great control of your breath. Yeah, you know, I'm so excited. Look at this assholes trying to kill He's like gaff choking and hearts pounding and like a hundred beats from I'm not like a great Now I'm doing what We're going to Lanai in a couple of months here, and uh, I'm hoping to get it loose there and just learn. There's something I saw in Instagram, which if I was if I had a trip plant, I would look into. It's called the c archer sling, and it's basically like a bow version of a spear gun. So you like pull it back and you shoot it like a bow and I'm gonna take you back to when you were a kid chase it. So now there's a purpose because every time I've gone spear fishing, I've eaten that animal within you know, the next three hours what a better And that's I think that's the difference. I was talking to something about meat and and you know, like hunting an unglid or an animal and then fishing fishing. The concept is eat it as soon as possible. Yeah, get it out of that get it out of that fish, filet it, chop it up, eat it raw, cook it whatever. But the sooner or the better. And with meat, if you're doing it right, the idea is let that thing age, let it hang, you know, weeks if you can, let some mold girl on the outside of it, chop that off and eat it um. And I always found that to be just a whole different world, especially spear fishing. You shoot a thing and you want to get it on the boat, take it back and eat it roll. I mean, that's that's the That's what kind of different connection is that. I mean, that's yeah, literally eating anything wrong, which I hope nobody out there is doing that with deer, but you could, good little dear, little dear tartar, little deer tartar, make it a little bit. But the reef fish that you actually get access to too, a lot of them don't take hooks, so you get some really interesting flavors like parrot. Fish are like tastes like lobster. It's like amazing, and you can they don't you know, they like suck the coral off rocks. So and you have to be careful. There's some like reef born fish illnesses you can get, but in general, Um, I've had no issues. And it's just been an epic experience. Well for me hunting, you know, I grew up hunting, but then later on just kind of getting a closer you know, relationship with Honey. It drove me to do things like garden and get chickens. And one half is you know, innate desire to go spear fishing because of the way I feel like it's parallel to hunting. So, I mean, I feel like Honey has led me down a path of sustainability just in seeing like we're talking about going home and having that option in your house to open the fridge and pull out something that means something to you. Um, you want to replicate that, So I guess, Um, now we've covered your your history with hunting. I would ask you you've done a lot of stuff. I mean, you've you've had You've traveled to countless South South American villages and had countless experiences with tribal leaders, and you've written a book. I'm looking at it right now on the day in your life. I mean, you've kind of become this and I've enjoyed Washington since I've known you, just this voice for reason, but also just clarity and vision and just to me, the pragmatism in which you approach giving people advice is is is What's It's not shocking, but in a way it is. I Mean most people I find that give advice give it, you know, with some slant of personal, um, you know, the personal They want to get something from you. But I've found that just reading your stuff and falling along that it's it's not that for you. It's it's just wanting to better people's lives and and explaining your own mind so you can help other people's expand that. So you know, you've hunted, you've had this experience, and you've gone and done anything. What are the things that you experienced in your life that would maybe put a different shine on hunting? As you know it like that your motivation to go do it, what you get from it, you know, how has it been rounded out in a way I think to understand what and what is an animal? Like what are we and what are animals? And how what are the differences, you know, like and not to romanticize. I think, like you get caught in two camps. One is like this romantization of like, oh life is life so precious you can't touch it and whatever? You know, Like that's not the game, you know, that's not that's not in the natural order. That doesn't abide by truth. But what also doesn't abide by truth is just killing for no reason. Killing is a big deal whatever, you know. So it's finding that middle ground between like who we are and what these animals are and really understanding that we're all part of. In my understanding, you know, it's a lot of the spiritual practices that I've done. We're all part of the same substrate, you know, and you can call that substrate the universe, you can call that substrate energy, you can call that substrate God. You know, we're all part of this God experience unfolding, this life experience unfolding, this universe experience unfolding. And there's many different ways that it manifests that manifits and concrete things and kind of rock energy, which is still atomic structures that are moving constantly. We think of rocks as an animate they're moving, they're just not alive. And then there's the life things. But then there's things like insects, which are basically like moving rocks. They don't really have free will. Like you take a digger wasp and you can get it to do the same thing over and over again by tricking its environment, right that it's not like a conscious creature. They're like little robots. They're live, but they're like mostly like little robots that will continue to do the same thing. And how perfect because they're like the garbage disposals of the earth, Like they need to run like robots. They can't just decide like not sucking. I'm not into garbage today, you know, like if the flies decided they didn't, yeh, nope, I'm going to flowers. The bees are killing. It is the most serious. You can't have that if you're a bug, you know, So that all right, understanding that these are creatures with like less free will somewhere between a rock and a human, you know, like the structures there, the movements there but that kind of and then and then just kind of figuring it out, figuring out what these you know, the sentience, the will, the personality of these beings and what that really means, you know, and who they are like who they are, what they are, and then having respect for that and knowing knowing going kind of consciously into what you're doing, and knowing too. There's you know, there's this countless abundance of new new like all life is precious, but each individual life really isn't that precious because there's all kinds of other forms that comes through. So it's like this weird paradox whereas like, yes, is that dear absolutely precious, absolutely, but it's precious as dear collectively. That one deer, you know, is precious, but can be sacrificed to feed other things, and those are part of the part of the life. And aren't those the human spectrums? We have one side the animal rights person who says that one dear is precious, that one dear's life. I love that dear, that deer over there, I love it. And then you've got a whole another group of people that I tend to hang out with. Let's say I love the idea of deer. They are they play a part in this big old tapestry that is nature, and I play a part with them. I kill them to save them. And there's so much oxygen, you know, there's so many oxymorons build into those ideas that I think I often wonder. I've been thinking this a lot more lately. Is it impossible or is it semi impossible to explain what hunting is to someone who's never done it too accurately depict the complexity both of nature, the natural world, our involvement in it, and then also what the hunter, the historically the hunter has done for that wildlife because bias just jumps in the way, like bias jumps up. Well, first of all, it's really hard to it is really hard to explain that. I mean, go ahead and start with explaining the feeling of what sabi and orgasm first, and try to explain that to someone who's never second orgasms. You know, like you can't explain some things that you haven't really experienced. But especially with hunting, just bias becomes a monster. You know, your idea of what it is is, and people, oh, I could never do that bullshit, You could never do that if you're hungry enough, if you're a kid, you know your you know your mama bear and your kids looking at you starving, and you have an opportunity to hunt and feed it. I for damn sure, you know you will be the first one out there, you know, whittling a spear and trying to make that should happen. It's just it's part of our nature. But with the abundance that we have, we have the luxury of these choices. But let's not get confused. You know, it's just the luxury of choices that are even giving you that option, you know. So it's it's a funny. It's a funny world that we're just all together so fucking disconnected from everything, from absolutely every aspect of what it is to be this human primate, you know, from the camaraderie, from the sexuality, from the social bonds, from the tribal bonds, from the practices like the hunting and the gathering and cultivating from your own garden. I mean, that's something too that I think everybody should experience. Eat a vegetable that you watered from a seed and pulled from the ground and washed the dirt off of like, that's cool too. Yeah, well, I always think like, what if somebody just erased your mind and somebody said, here, okay, even with vegetable, because it's kind of hard to do with me. You could either grow it in the ground, playing it in the ground. I'll give you the seed. I can provide the seed to you, granted, and then water it, put it in environment where it can thrive, grows out of the ground, and then at a time where it's most rich and ready to eat, you pluck it. You cut it up and eat it. Like that seems pretty good, And she's like, I would appreciate that thing more because I had to work and I had to watch it and I had to understand how it thrived and how it allowed me to thrive. That seems pretty cool. Or what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna build a maze, and in that maze is gonna be lighting, and you go through a door. The door will open automatically. You don't even have to pull the door. You go through this and then there's a maze of vegetables, but they're just in boxes and they're all like the best kinds of vegetables, and there's lighting on them and stuff and there's music playing. Then you get a little a cart that's one wheels and you push that around. You just pull shit out of boxes and you put it into your thing. You take it up, then you pay for it, you go home and eat it. Like which one of those is better? Like one of them's whole foods, one of them in your backyard. Yeah, if you just erase everything, I would probably just say, look, man, like the other one seems fake, this one seems real inherently, I'm just gonna pick the real one. Well, you you also, it's also just like knowing the vegetable, like like you don't really know the vegetable when it's already pre prepared, like and most people don't even buy the vegetables that they have to cut. You know, you go into whole Foods, you're getting you're getting some white person to cut yours for you. That a Whole Foods, there's like I don't have enough time to cut. There's like Jackson in the back and you know, Sarah cutting your cutting your vegetables for you, and and they're like preparing it and you're paying exorbitant prices and it just comes in this food form whereas you you pull a zucchini from the ground, you see where the stem is connected to that little nub on the end that you cut off, and how that's feeding at nutrients, and how it's growing in the soil, and how it's creating, you know, something that you're going to consume and it's going to nourish your body. That's a different thing. You get, Like I get like fired up when I'm cooking anything that's from our garden, whether it's we have eggplants and herbs or even man even if I'm making like a cocktail and I'll go out and grab some mint and muddle it up from our garden and like just drinking that, you know, drinking that lime in tequila and mint or whatever I decided to make, and like I'll have like a little smile on my face, Like herbs from my garden. You know, that's actually probably the like that, that's probably the time when I'm like the most like annoyingly proud. It's like I always tell somebody's from our garden. You know. I don't brag about anything, you know, I don't brag about ship, but my wife, like last even last night, two nights ago, I cooked an axis backstrap and it was like the most delicious, this best thing I've ever cooked. If I could bottle up whatever the hell I did. And then last night I was got home late. My wife had cooked uh, the other part of the backstrap in the oven as opposed to our trigger, and I was offended. I was like, emotion I'm like, come on, just turn the trigger on, you know what. That's going to be good that way. It's not as good this way. She looked at Me's like, calm down, don't get so emotional. I'm like, hey, how to go to Hawaii for that? Aren't not allowed to get emotional about that? I can't just go back and get another one tomorrow. And so I find that, you know, maybe I'm a little bit of a dick when it comes when it comes to my wild meat that I went and got, because that there isn't it doesn't. I can't go out and and get it presented to me in a nice lighted box like it would be a whole Yeah, And it's it's just that it's this a different thing. It's also it's a showcase of your skill. It's a showcase of um, there's something very primal about it that I think is and I think it's important, But I think that one of the biggest problems why everybody is so depressed and anxious and funked up in general, if you look at, you know, the demographics of different people and the epidemics of all of these different issues. We forgot how to be humans, you know, we forgot how to sit around next to each other and help prepare meals and laugh and go hunting together and have these experiences that as a human organism we're designed to have. And that's you know, a lot of what I've tried to put in my book is like how do we get back to the blueprint of what we were supposed to do, because in that blueprint we're going to thrive. And there's a lot of practices that we can do that can mimic some of these environments. Like part of the thing about a hunt that's gonna be good is you're gonna get cold at certain points, you know, maybe you're gonna get hot at certain points. Maybe you're gonna have periods of fast exertion and high high stress followed by super calm periods. We have absolutely nothing to do but wait. And that's what we're designed for. We're not designed for constant stress all the time, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, no rest, no break, we're designed for these. So when we're not hunting, like, how do we mimic that in in regular life? Like, how do we mimic the experience of a hunt, you know, by going through our day that way? Well, maybe it's a cold shower, an ice bath, and maybe it's you know, a quick sprint, and then some you know, steady state cardio or walking, and like, how do we mimic these experiences that can get us at least a little bit closer. But even better than mimicking them is actually, hey, why don't we just do them? Yeah? I have a real problem with depression. After I come back from a long time outside. Sure, I come back from some trips I've had this year, will be ten days, fourteen days. You come back, and my wife's like, I'm just gonna give you a couple of days to switch it back, switching to switch that dial back to regular, fella, get it back to like stop being this, to looking around like looking for the next you know, really looking for the next mental queue to go do something, exert myself. I'm just like rodding along, going when's the next hunt? And the thing is, without the hunting experience, you would be just internalizing, bottling, compounding, not even really understanding, like, man, why am I so bombed? Why don't I have any energy? Why am I why can't I get going? And because you just you don't even know, you haven't even seen the other side, you know, so you have nothing to compare it to. That's why I think even podcasting is some kind of weird catharsis, because you're just me and you sit down talking. Like that door in your office here stays closed. Somebody walks in, we'd be like, get out. If he calls back, Um, he's got a special ring tone. But that kind of thing to me, like this, it's it's rare. It's become a rarity, which is sad. But in the same uh and the same way. I was talking to somebody at work the other day about the idea of vacation is strange to me in some way after being a hunter, like I would live my life in this Essentially, what we're admitting to is not a perfect existence. The need for vacation, you know, says to the says to the human, Hey, the thing you're doing that's not a vacation, that's not the optimal way that you live your life. So there's this other thing out there that you go pursue that shows you how great it could be. Well, you go do that thing, and then you go back to your shitty life and you're like, well that now it sucks here, Like why would you leave your current and show what's better? Why not do the opposite? Why not go to a place that's hard her so you appreciate where you are every day. That makes sense, makes sense to me. And also, like the way that we handle vacation now is the only way to relieve stress. It's not the actual relieving stress by doing something challenging and actually going out, like you're saying, it's just pound drinks, you know, you just go vacation mode my brain liquid, Yeah, and just fucking crush as many you know, get out of the pool ship food, pull the lever on this machine and money and it maybe a win something and then all right, yeah maybe it maybe it bludgeons your consciousness enough that you relieve enough stress for a moment, but then you come back with the compounded damage that you've done in the momentum and the exhaustion and you know, the frustration, and then you're just waiting for that next moment you can bludge in yourself over the head with more booze and to get out of this. Like, that's not that, that's not the thing, man. You don't want to be that dude at the end of your life and be like, man, I wonder what it would have been like to go on a trek across New Zealand on foot like I did a recent psychedelic experience. I haven't actually talked about this on any podcast, but I popped out of it and I had this incredibly crystal clear vision of me walking on foot through the Australian outback and I was like, damn, like and I like knew I had to go. I could see this trace back from my youth and my fascination with Australia and the digre Do and you know, Aboriginal culture and all of these different signs like oh fuck, it's like I gotta go to fucking Australia. I was like, all right, man, all right. So then there's that, and then there's so at some point, now I know that I'm gonna be taking like and I think I found the trailing. I'm gonna do the Larrapinta Trail, which is like a twenty one mile hike through the through the outback and see what's possible there. Maybe there's hunting available, maybe it's just camping and playing music or whatever. But that experience, now, I'm like stoked for it, like I'm looking for I get to do all kinds of awesome ship I mean, great parties, superstar superstar athletes, you know, beautiful girls, all those things. Like that's when we're most When I'm most excited about. What I'm most excited about is you know, it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm most excited about that fucking that track where you just get to like turn my phone off and just cruise through a hot ass hot as middle of nowhere place and just it just calls to me. You know. I think that's part of the balance of life. It's not all just like more and more. Yeah, if I had more money, if I had more dope parties, if I had more of this, Like that's no, that's not it. That's just a place for that. Like I love that stuff, but you can't just have that and then just have crushing it at work, and then just have crushing it with in this area, like everything needs to be in balance and re human ng, like getting your fucking feet on the earth and sleeping out into the stars. Man. I went to Nepal be close to a year ago to hunt blue sheet, and I you know, I described it as a hunt, right, I say, I went hunting. I didn't really go hunting like I thought I was going hunting. I went there to hunt a sheep. But about a third of the way through I could give two focks about any sheep. I mean, I still knew I wanted to kill a sheep, because that's the full breath of the experience of what I was there to do. But once I we land in this little village in the middle of nowhere and Duel in this little town called Dual. They are, so it was like six days walk from the nearest road, and we get into a room, you know, half the size of your office here, and we're talking to these people and they're translating their stories and we're drinking their roxy moonshine out of a cup. There's a goat standing in the corner of this stone hut and there's a one year old baby lane on the ground and you're looking around, thinking these people have nothing. And the next morning you wake up and they're singing and there's flute playing and there's yelling, like boisterous yelling, and people are just this is like just beautiful sounds coming from everywhere, and the sun's coming up with the mountain. You're like, come on, man, did I not come here for this? Like what I come here for that sheep that's that's up the mountain there, or this thing which is perspective on what we what it could be, or what it is for other people. And that's that's what I think a lot of people miss specifically in the world that this this podcast will speak to, just the perspective of what's there on the ground that you miss while you're thinking about that four elk or you know, in your case, like what when's the right bear? I think you're the way you came at that bear home was perfect because you've experienced everything up until the moment when it would happen or not. But I think that's my own I look back my own hunting life and my own life spent outside and I say like, dude, I missed so much in the last twenty years, so much, but I'm glad I did because now I know, like you, now I know what I missed. Yeah, man, this is like we have the best opportunity to explore this world and have a variety of different experiences, and the more we get caught up in our own desire to validate ourselves. And maybe that's and you can even validate yourself through hunting, of course, you know, like and that is the trophy element, Like I did this. Look at me, Aren't I great? You know, like that's fine, but that's not you're missing the point. The point is the point is the thing. It's the experience itself, you know, Like you should find the joy even if you never told a soul, you know, and if you could just do this and smile, you know, and give that, you know, give those antlers to an indigenous people and walk back, like that should be the test, Like could you do that and still love it? Like could you go kill give away all the meat, all the skins, all the antlers, everything, and never tell anybody and just do that and hold that is like this smile you could carry in your heart and like would that still be worth it? And then if so, then you know you're probably hunting for the right reason. Yeah. I was listening to this guy on Rogans podcast, um Johan Ari. You're not that guy, Um an expert in depression, which seems like a weird thing to say, but he was talking about intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. Like intrinsic obviously meaning you're doing it because you love it you personally, you gained something personally from it. An extrinsic meaning you're going out and doing it based on a reward you know some of then external reward that someone else will give you based on that thing. And he was talking about it in a different field and a completely different subject of what I was thinking, But I immediately turned into like, that's it, Like that's what my problem has been, Like I've let too much of the extrinsic in and not done enough of the intrinsic, not only just in going outside and and hunting, but just in all of life. You let too much of that in, and we do it in so many slippery different ways, like we're just the ego is just the starving validation machine, and it's constantly looking to validate itself, whether it's a glance in the mirror, you know, looking at your bank balance or what you've accomplished, or what your job is, or you know, how big the dick is between your legs, or like what animals you've killed, or we're just constantly hungrily looking for validation. But I think depression a lot of it comes from the exasperation and realizing that you're never going to get validation from anything external. You're feeding a hungry ghost like you're valid because you're human. You're valid because you're part of this planet. You're valid because you are. You know, you're not valid because you do. You're valid because you be. And when we realize that, then we can stop this rabid hunt to try and prove to ourselves and others that were I am something like, oh yeah you are. You're fucking awesome. But it's not because of anything you do. It's just because you are, you know, And that's the that's the big thing we have to and then then and then you're free, and then you actually do more awesome stuff and people are like, oh my god, you're so awesome. You're like okay, you know, Like but when you're constantly hunting. We've all been around those people that are just thirsty, just thirsty for that validation, Like no, I'm gonna give you that. I'm actually gonna do the other way. I'm just a little bit stuff going on. Yeah, exactly, I got to get my chicken license. A chicken license, damn it. That's going to be the title of this podcast. I'll Remarcus in the chicken license. We're gonna have to have to do a video companion. What from the book? Like, what from the book? I want to read the thing, but what what from the book do you think? Um, you know best sheds light on this conversation, Like, Yeah, I think it's the I think it's a lot of the discussions about the managing stress appropriately and um, you know, I think that's a that's a real big one because you think of the life cycle of like how we're supposed to live, and it's short bursts of acute stress and acute stressors hormatic stress, and then long bouts of you know, relaxation and decompression, and that's what you experience in any hunt, you know, and so finding the ways to do that through you know, caught hot and cold therapy through which actually when you do those acute acute stresses, that does an amazing job of reducing the chronic stress. And that chronic stress is like a fire that's just burning us alive. So going through the breath practices like the whim Hoff breath practices, the cold exposures, the heat exposure, the types of training, the different practices that you can put around that so that it just gets your body back in line. I think that's an important topic. And then also mapping the circadian rhythm throughout the day, you know, because when you're out hunting outside and you're on a hunt, you know, you're waking up with the light, You're going to sleep with the darkness. You don't have climate control, you know, you don't have any of these other things. And guess what, you're not tired. You know, for the most part my experiences, it's it's like it's get up at four in the morning, you're hunting, and the end of the day eight o'clock and you're like, I could do two more hours. Yeah, because you're in a court, you're in rhythm, like you're in congruence with the circadian rhythms of the body of the earth. You become one with the environment again and finding way is even in our concrete jungle, to stay in accord with that. So when you wake up, you know, making sure that you're getting exposure to light and you're rehydrating and you're getting some movement, and then what you're doing to create darker conditions and mimic a natural environment before you go to bed, and then knowing which times are the right times to nap and rest during throughout the day. You know generally would be in like the heat of the day, that's when the circadian rhythms will drop and go ahead and take that nap, you know, instead of trying to pound more coffee and power through the naps. It is the ultimate nap. I was actually in Mexico last and we started to follow the pattern of these cus deer we were hunting, and there, you know, we were describing it is kind of like the dial of the day. Like you would click it over and it would be like this pre dawn dusk where the deer started to move, and then around ten a m. They would click it over to everybody got in the shade, lay down, let's chill. Then you would click it about four o'clock. It would click into this like post you know, post earlier, you know, post sunny hot time, where it was they we're gonna move. You look at dusk and a lot of the animals we hunt crepuscular, and that's what they do. But we started to get up in the morning, we go out there. We'd be still during that time, or the deer move and we'll be following them on a ridge or whatever. Ten o'clock would come. We know, we'd get up on a ridge, get in some shade, do exactly what the deer were doing, and then take a nap. You know, during the hot times of the day. Four o'clock would roll around. We get up and do basically what the same deer we're doing, hunt them the way that they lived. And that was the first time I ever thought about that way, the first time I ever realized we're basically just being the deer at this point. And I bet it felt damn good. It was awesome. And that nap during the day, I'm like this, the deer's taking a nap. I'll take a break. And right now, what are we doing? We're being the idealized model of the perfect industrial cog in the machine, like that's what Okay, show up at eight am, work till six pm, blah blah blah, Like okay, but that's not an animal that we're approximate. That's not like what our body wants. That's what like the man wants, you know, like that's what stress or guys like trying to get to work with Oh my got it? Seven? Yeah, what happens at eight and then and then work all through the day. Like it's just a weird structure. I understand for efficiency. Look, I run a company and we have those hours too, But also if I catch if I see someone napping in the middle of the day or working out or whatever, that's also encouraged. Like I realized, like you can't hold human beings two artificial schedules and expect them to be at their best performance, either their happiness or their performance. So you know, I talked about a lot of that stuff in the book too, like how do we apply these principles that become instinctive to all other animals and apply those two a life lived as a human being in normal society and all this. Every conversation I have with some MyD it just seems like we always get back to this thing because I, other than my family, I think about hunting like almost every day all the time. It's it's kind of unhealthy, But it always comes back to this, like a great conversation about this enriching thing that I've done and you've done, and we all kind of have experience and it's changed our lives. But everybody seems to not understand it and not like it like everything. You we both live in Austin, Texas. We're sitting right now in Austin, Texas. If you walk down sixth Street, you know, and started asking people what do you think about hunting and showing him picture, most people would be like, that's some bullshit. Yeah, like wise I gout doing that. Well, I think we've shown a spotlight on the wrong thing, you know, Like what makes the news is that the guy who quietly goes out, says a prayer over his bullets and his gun, and goes and takes an animal from a field and cries tears of gratitude and then takes the skin and puts it on his altar and eats the meat and smiles and has family gatherings. And does that make fucking news? No? See so the fucking lion makes the news, you know what I mean, And it's we're shining a light on the wrong thing. We're not. People aren't aware of what it could be. And I don't think that's it's not something that enough people are putting out because the people who are doing that aren't as vocal. They aren't talking about it, they aren't posting the big, the big post about it because that's not what it is. So I think we can get this kind of bias as to what it is. And I think that's why it's awesome you're having this podcast and I jump at the chance to talk about hunting because it's not something that comes up off into my conversations, but it's like fucking essential, and it's essential to start telling that other side of it. And not everybody's gonna do it like me, and that's cool, but at least, like shine the light on the full breath of the spectrum, not just shine the line on the shitty people who are remote control hunting, you know, for the sheer sport of it. You know, the clicking in online and have some remote control gun like that will make national news, but the other thing will never make the news that point. I can't figure that out. I can't figure out why the moral entanglements of hunting are elevated. And like there's other things that we do that have moral entanglements that we just kind of like slough off, like oh, Franklin barbecue, I love love youre and Franklin. Sorry, but like that dude, just you know, wholesale killing cows and people wait in line for it and it's celebrated, and they're just we don't people aren't standing in line thinking about the moral entanglements of what they're what they're engaged in at that level because hunting. Hunting is decentralized. There's no hunting collective industry really that it's like it's each each individual interactions, you know, So nobody has those big, deep corporate pockets to support other than maybe some gear suppliers or some people like that, but they're not in this big lobbying game whereas you talk about like the meat industry or the dairy industry. Now they're swinging a big fucking stick around. And like, if you're a news company and you you know, don't want to preclude the opportunity to have advertising from real milk or some other advertiser that's advertising on your network. Then you know, you just have to look at the influence. And unfortunately that's the world we live in where these dollars kind of create bias and also it's something that they can shock people with, whereas that other heartwarming story about it is you know, someone really has to pay attention. It doesn't fit with the conversation. Yeah, I'd also think about like I've skied a couple of times, but I'm not I no ski or snowboarder or anything like that. But I don't think anybody skis down that mountain thinking like, man, this could be habitat like this. I feel very morally I should probably when I get down to the bottom of the mountain gonna put my hand on the ground and cry because this because something used to live here and now I'm just skiing down this for my own pleasure and then riding up on a giant chair that's attached to a cable. So I always I just it's something I've always thought about, like what or thought about recently since we've been have these goods. We're so we're so fucked up about death too, you know, like our whole concept about all death. Human death, animal death were so removed from it. You know, death is just a part of life when you're in the animal way, like you're in another culture. Everybody saw all things die, Like it's shocking to see something die for most people because they've never seen it. And we do weird, weird things like pump bodies full of formaldehyde and you visit them weirdly and it's like whoa man, Like, we're just all weird about it. And I think it's partly a lack of real spiritual understanding of where that energy goes or what happens, and everybody gets entitled to their own beliefs, and that in part just this lack of exposure to it. And then weird overexposure and TV and like where you're in video games and stuff where it's death everywhere, but then in reality, death nowhere, and it's just like we're just really out of balance with what that really is like. And so, you know, I think that's something that else that if you really want to know what life is about, like you know what death is about, like here the death moan of a bear, like understand the appropriate response for leaving the earth, you know, well, that's why you see a lot of hunters haven't go into posting the crocodile balls and impola video like or the bear kills the cub videos because they want people to say like, hey man, I've seen this, like this is death. I I know death, and it's serious. Like there isn't any way to wash that out of the experience. There's no way to take it and hose off the blood like it's there all the time. Those bears are killing, those big boars are killing cubs like it's going out of style and there's no but you can't. You can't put suspenders on that bear and the hat on it and the rain jacket and make it all better and whatever you do, don't put gold chains on they especially in the psychedelic world. Um yeah, I think that that ties it all back to, like how do we how do we take this thing that's enriching and good and just I don't see anything bad about it. I don't people can take it and make it bad, just like trampers campers might go litter that the mint camping bad. How do we take this thing that's inherently good and figure out how to talk about I think you know, I think there's a space for a more ritualized like in spiritual communities, there's not a lot of hunters and that's bullshit, Like it's bullshit, And I think there's a space for a more ritualized hunting experience where you have somebody maybe you know, a Lakota elder who knows the old ways, you know, and and take someone out and it's like, this is how we hunt, this is how we prepare the animals, where you go through the complete experience from the prayers, from the songs the night before where you're trying to communicate with those spirits and ask them to come, and then taking the animal in the field and then skinning it, preparing it, making your jerky, skinning the animal, making whatever kind of crafts out of the other parts of the animal, and like that fucking experience would be radically transformative, you know. And I think there's a real space for that kind of because there's all kind of yoga retreats and ship seven day yoga retreat fourteen day what about a you know, seven day, fourteen day North Dakota hunting experience led by the native ls and you do a sweat lodge and kill an animal and prepare it and you know, painted like all right, funck yeah, Like there's a space for that. And I think that's important. And maybe that's not going to reach the masses, but it at least have more voices who are kind of embracing this other side and telling that other part of the narrative. And um, you know, if I had more time, maybe I could start to organize. I'd go with you because yeah, and I found that. I find that, you know, the two times we won't talk about the first time we went hunting, that's a whole another The first time Albrey and I met, we were sitting on top of like a high rack jeep getting just marauded by mosquitoes in this we won't say the name of it, in this high fence. We got tricked into a situation and we realized that some laugh though we had some fun with that crew. It's hard not to but any wait, we won't talk about that, but you know, and just when I was it was driving over here thinking about this conversation, I was thinking just to just I would almost every year try to go hunt with somebody that has a different perspective because sometimes we I always tend to hunt with my friends or people that I enjoy time with, and of course I know, intimately know, and a lot of times there's not a whole bunch of dynamics in that situation. You're kind of always getting the same thing. And UM to like just say, hey man, I'm just gonna go with Aubrey and check out his you know, just to kind of watch what he does and see see how that benefits me. Careful because I talked to have a good buddy, really good buddy, and he went hunting with someone who didn't really know that well and he's like, God, damn, that guy drove me crazy. You know. I was like, little, we'll just sitting and be quiet, and he was over there. Yeah, no, that you gotta be careful with that. But there's you know, there's a way to do that where you can see through somebody who hasn't experienced the same thing you have. Maybe there's a different way to think about it. Maybe there's a different way. And that's what I was thinking, like kicking this damn thing off, like who am I going to talk to? That can provide some different perspective. Because all due respect from all the people I know in the hunting industry that it's it's there's it's a bubble, it's group think, it's it's we're all kind of doing the same thing. We're super passionate. We got our heads down and a lot of times we don't ever look up and look around, like are we is this right? Yeah? Is that we're doing this right? Yeah? Yeah? I mean, and I think it would be cool for hunters to, like, you know, psychedelics aren't for everybody, and but if you're called to that path, like have a guided experience by someone who really knows what they're doing, the imagine it. Think of it like hunting and dangerous terrain, Like you want a guy who really knows what they're doing, doesn't have an ego, isn't going to be foolish, isn't gonna be stupid, but like do something that helps show you a deeper side of the life of the animals that you have. And you know, I think a lot of hunters are kind of like, oh, I don't want to do that because I don't want to find out that what I'm doing is wrong. Like I'll give you the fucking shortcut. What you're doing is not wrong. At the action, but how you're doing it might be able to be better and better to learn that. Now you know better to be able to carry that and face that because all all people have hunted since the beginning of time, like the action. Don't worry about the action. It's not gonna tell you not to hunt. It just might give you advice. I'm like, Okay, here's how to do it in like a cooler way. And the way I started hunting with my dad, And I feel like if my dad listens to these regular he's gonna think I'm talking ship. I love you, Dad. Like the way that we hunted was like if I look back now, like, man, we were some rednecks. We're red neck to the core. And if I would have told like fifteen year old Ben O'Brien this conversation, we're having to be like pussy, right, I'm gonna get that. I just talk about like not travel, things that are serious to hunting and not all this. But I I said it in the last couple and I don't want to repeat myself on all these things. But I find myself more interested in the philosophies of this thing that I am interested in in what boost I should wear or whatever. Just I think just because it's it's such a complex thing that you could talk about it forever and never get to all of it. Yeah, well, man, I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about it because, like I said, I don't get that chance very much. And I know we've had those conversations and we're and we're digging them and uh so I appreciate you any time. And your podcast is I listen to all the time. There's the voices and the people that you have one that I have no idea about. Half of my followers I think came from your podcasts and just people that speak with open minds and just smart thinkers who have found different ways. And you know, I want to pull people along in their journey, which I find to be kick ass. And yeah, so yeah, thank you for that. Of course, thanks for this. Yeah, definitely, anybody interested in the book, by the way, just go to own the Day book dot com. I poured my soul into this thing, so I know you did. I remember talking to you like I I'll see you in a couple of months, go into a book retreat, and I'm never going to talk to you again. The Hourglass is empty. Man, we did it by later and the hour Glasses Empty. Episode number three is done. Appreciate you all joining. Much respect to Aubrey Marcus for joining us for the conversation. I love that guy. Um. He had to leave us after just the hour for the hour Glass because of course he is the CEO of a giant company and he's got a lot of things to do. Um, but we had him for an hour, which I appreciated as always, and hopefully you can tell by that that podcast. Albury is the type of dude who you can sit around and have a beer with and quote will feral movies and laugh like a teenager. But he's also a dude that you can go and sit in meditation with talk about spirit for oneness. I mean, he really just eased one of the more unique people that you'll ever meet. So I hope that came through in podcast number three. Really appreciate you joining us so, as always, go to the Hunting Collective dot com for more videos, articles, all the podcasts we've done up to this point. Check out my Instagram feed at NYO B three or one that's where everything else emanates from, and check us out next week. For episode four, where I'll hope to be joined by episode three special guests, the one, the Only, Jonathan Dudley hope knock on, So join us next week for that one. Until then, Bye bye,

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