00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, I'm Casey and I'm Tyler and this is the Elk Cunning series from the Element podcast. If you want to get on ELK, it helps to hang with dudes that no ELK and that ain't us. But luckily the dudes that no ELK have cell phones and we call them up. So, whether you're a veteran of September or you're just cutting your eyvories and the Elk wood said, you're gonna hear something here that will help you get the full draw of this fall. If you find this podcast help, We'll pop that subscribe button and go check out our ELK Cunning playlist on YouTube. Now let's rock and roll, al right, guys on the show today we have got Zach bouton from Montana. Wild. Dude, what's happening today? Not much? Man, just got off work, so yeah, yeah, that's cool. Now it's home projects, your essential? How you had to go into work? How do you go into work? We've been essential the whole time. You don't you don't want to go down the rabbit of me because I'm very against what's going on in or they believe me. We're out there with you. Uh. Luckily Tyler and I are pretty much self employed, so we kind of get to um, not do we want to by any means, but at least we get to decide our essential nous. Yeah, but uh, I'm sure things got a little bit crazy up there. I think who was I talking to? Um? I don't know, one of my buddies from Bozeman, Um, and there was Oh it was Joe Webster, which I think he's actually from Azoula, but UM does say that rout Mazzoula. They kind of get a little yeah, but he was just saying how it's just kind of ridiculous and whatnot. And anyways, or y'all kind of back to normal or is life still? And everything was? My life has changed zero? Yeah? Uh yeah. We were able to work an entire time and most of the businesses remained open other than restaurants. But honestly, I don't got to eat that much, so I didn't bother me. There you go the freezer. You don't have to go out right, Yeah, And then I mean there's a mass mandate, but honestly, like I haven't won a masked the entire time. Other than when I first mandated, I couldn't get in like bob boards, sporting goods and like targets like sloping on until yeah, I figured out what was going on. But one one sense, so it's pretty ridiculous. Yeah, there you go. There's a lot of talking about there. But oh yeah, well we'll let you get on you know, Min Shapiro or something and talk about that. But we're here to talk about that kind of today. Man. So, um, how I got to know who you are is that you are one of the brothers and one of the brains behind Montana Wild, which is like an epic film production company. They're out of the namesake Montana right, And uh yeah, how did you all get into the film stuff? Man? I mean it really kind of started in high school and you were doing a bunch of skiing at the time, and ski films. You know, this is I don't know, maybe fifteen years ago now, Um, so a while ago, and ski films are really the only content that you know, you would consume to get excited to go skiing, and so that was kind of, you know, something that was big for us. We were definitely watching all the ski films and going skiing and just kind of wanted, I guess, to start making some little edits, and this is kind of the initial days of kind of YouTube or not even YouTube, but I remember new school there's it's a little ski forums style skiing website and there are a lot of people that would upload edits to that, and so that whole thread for us is what started us using the camera. And then I went to school in Bozeman, um skied quite a bit. I want to school, wasn't sure what I wanted to do, and just moved to Missoula, which is where my brother was going to school at the time. And we've always been really close growing up and hadn't seen h in a few years. And I just, like all do business classes. I don't don't know exactly what I want to do, but I kind of feel like I want to run my own business at some point. And so I moved there, and essentially the skiing sucks and Rock Creek is right there and it's world class fishery and ever since I've moved in Montana, you know, I just kind of felt like the vibe was different and I should go hunting. And so basically that year I started basically taught myself how to fish, and I learned how to hunt. Basically went on a hunt with good friend now Tyler mccannon was hooked from there and that was just kind of turned my life into an obsession of hunting and fishing. And we were just so blown away with the experiences we were having that we took what we knew about building content from skiing and just translated it over to hunting and fishing and pretty quickly realized there wasn't much content out there that was being created in the mast thread of the experience and everything that have revolved around those activities. It was more just you know, good old boys and hunting camp and then a kill shot. That was about it. Um, So we just started building content and found a niche and ran with it. Yeah yeah, man, and y'all definitely didn't do It's pretty cool. And I think actually I probably started, uh you know, taking in something else content from the fishing side of things, and then um, what was it? It It was somehow I think it was probably your first elk hunt that I were not your first outcome, but the first time I saw you elk hunting was you shot that that big bull over a wall, oh, which is pretty epic. And then you know, we always always eat up the fly fish and stuff man, and it uh, it's pretty cool. Tyler and I've probably how many days we spent in Bozeman five days, four days, and uh then you realize that, like whenever you are living somewhere like you'all do, that is legit the best backdrop to anything ever in the outdoor scape. Like you're almost compelled to make film, right, Yeah, it's it was definitely hard to not make films. You filmed almost every day we went out for a long time. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like it's like get the exposure right and you've got an award winning shot there. You know. It's like everywhere you look from Bozeman there's beautiful landscape, right. Yeah, It's definitely not hard to get some good good qualities as long as it's not a smoke day. It's harder to piece together and having their sense. But if you wanted to just get pretty photos and video, you can definitely do it. Yeah. Yeah, Well, storytelling is a whole another thing, and that's where you know, there meets the road. But uh yeah yeah, so, um y'all did the Montana whild thing. You're still doing that? Do you feel like um speaking of storytelling. Tyler and I struggle with this, and we're gonna get to l. Hutton sooner or later in this talk, but I gotta we gotta talk about this about But man, y'all made and still do make epic films that were kind of the long form thing. And it's like the nature of the beast that YouTube rewards people for the vlog type consistent content type stuff. Do you feel like that's really kind of killing the artistry that can be put into outdoor cinematography. No, I mean, I think honestly is opening the door for people to do more of it just because the market has been flooded with a bunch just garbage quality video. It's not that it's not entertaining for people and that people are going to tune in, but the qualities not there. You know, everyone's going to have a vlog in a series. It's so unoriginal that I think the doors you know, pretty open for people that want to actually invest serious time into making, you know, one production that's really epic and just showcases at the time that you would invest to have to build something out like that. But uh, I mean, there's not a reward from YouTube or anything like that, that's for sure. There's no you know, big traffic numbers that you can call out over a single year. But I've never had to you know, sell my business on any numbers ever once, you know, So that's been pretty nice. People hopefully value quality content, content that's on brand and fits their brand versus you know, spend them a number. Sure, but you know, and so my question is to you, is you know going forward because you guys, you know, you were I would say pretty early, I don't know, like pioneer or whatever you want to call it. You guys were early into the game of like the cinematic, high quality, longer format stuff. And so for you, you know, it was it was something that you did well and therefore we're rewarded by it. But at this point, there's a lot of people that have tried to whether super successful or just kind of successful or very successful, I have tried to do the same type of thing, um with a little higher quality and that kind of thing. And to me, it just feels like that, Uh, if you were to go in and if say you're twenty years old today and you start you want to start this deal, that's just say Montana Wild, you know, like, are you gonna, are you gonna are you gonna be able to like, you know, cut through the mix and and do that at this point very successfully or has it already been done? You know what I mean? If you're if you're twenty and you know what you're doing and you have a mindset that's savvy to both your viewers as well as the business side of things, man, you should be able to crush. Really, you think people just don't want to put the work in. People do not want to put the work in, hands down the limiting factor. No one wants to spend two or three years before they get remotely close to where they want to be. But yeah, yeah, no, I just I just wondered because it seems like to me, it just seems like a lot of these companies that used to support these longer format, high quality films are getting away from, uh, spending money on those as for forms of advertisement and that kind of thing. So it just kind of you know, you see like these vlogs, these vlogs being successful, and it's kind of everybody's kind of trying to shift that way, it feels like to me at least, And so it just makes me wonder you know if if it's if it is because I think you're right. I think the opportunity to be creative and do something original is there, But I just don't know, Like to me, I'm not sure about the market for it, whether it's on the consumer end or just being paid from companies to do that. Uh, Like, you know it doesn't see them like sponsor dollars are going there and all that kind of stuff. Do you I mean, do you feel that at all or not? Uh? No, I mean I think because I mean, you're doing accessible as it's ever been. I mean, the markets more flooded. But if you're the best, there is the space for you, the position for you still there, you know what I mean. If your middle of the pack, it sucks because you're It's just the money doesn't make it that far down the ladder, you know. Um, if you're at the top of the game. I mean, it really is inconsequential in my opinion of what the markets doing, I think, or the industry. I think, um, everyone would be smart if they run their own business to self monetized to some extent, because it's it's a little tough and frustrating, especially on the creative side of things to just only get paid via brands. Uh. A lot of them are pretty relaxed and let you do a lot of what you want. Others ask a lot of you. Um. You know, we were always gonna only endorse and utilized products we believed in, So we never bought into any of the bolsh. I think our followers really value that. But you know, some people definitely can't play that game. Money talks for a lot of people. Um, but yeah, I think there's plenty of room to do it better. I mean they're honestly, is really no one in the game that I actually enjoy or look forward to watching their content, I mean honestly content. I enjoy watching her honestly, like brand releases, uh, and even stuff just outside of our industry, just all the just no one wants the production value is not there, the storytelling is not there. No one wants to leg a heavy ask camera and a tripod and like make sure that they get the shots and go through the pre production and get the audio right, and make sure that the hunters, you know, listening to his cameraman and working together, you know these you make stories out. It's like, hey, man, I can get I'll give YouTube channel and my Instagram going and I'll have you know, a little camera and I'll get some clips and stop them together and it'll be cool. It's like it's cool. But yeah, I think it's easier. That's why it's easier to make an epic fishing film than a hunting film, because, uh, you can replicated and drop. I take a few times, but there's only one shot. You know, Like the other night we went and just kind of for fun and went and film to hog hunt and I didn't get shot on film because it's behind a tree. And it's like, well, that whole evening didn't quite make you went to tell the whole story with a film, you know, it's just and then you're like, well, I gotta do a whole new one. It's just kind of frustrating, you know. But it just takes a lot of time of experiences, Like I have to tell the story that's hunt. It only lays out one time, Like I have to be on the ball. Yeah yeah, audiosity, money, focus, exposure, my framing, what shots I'm shooting, being in position, not spooking the animal. I'm not messing with my hunter, communicating on the hunter that pre production is pretty key when it comes to that stuff too. Man. You know, like we've uh we like, my sister is an author, and so I'm I've asked her several times over the years. I'm like, you know, how, what's the best way to tell a story? You know, Like I mean, and obviously that's a vague question. I get more detailed at times, but that's the general thesis around my questions is, you know, how do you tell a story better? I'm always trying to pick up on the things that she does as an author to do that, you know, and hopefully implying those uh into the hunting video. You know. So it's difficult at times, man, but that pre production can really help you once you get out into the field. I feel like, you know, yeah, it's difficult. I mean, it's just it's just a repetition thing. I mean, I don't know how many times I've stared at my computer trying to script out something and nothing good happened. Yeah, do it twenty times I end up in a spot that it's actually pretty good, you know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So are you guys, uh, do you have any plans to like fill that niche of something that Zach Bolton would want to watch in the hunting world. Huh. I wish I could say yes. Uh, I'm definitely gonna make a film this fall, at least that's the plan. Will film just one hunt, I think, uh it'll be like a mountain bule deer hunt. And I always like filming stuff that personally, I think it's dope, even though it's going to be paying the Aska film and chances are we don't shoot anything, which is another reason people don't film certain stuff. You know. It's like, oh, do you want to go film like in post Holling and snow and it's you know, five to thirty degrees potentially blow and snow all day every day and we might not see any animals. But you need to be dedicated to the craft and the story and nah, you know, lose focus. Um, but those are the things that I get stoked on as a hunter. Shows are things that motivate me. It's hard, you know, I wanna I work with a bunch of young photographers and content creators because I started the Hunting Photography course with my buddy Stephen Drake just called Hunting Photographer, and there's just a bunch of guys that I know that I kind of almost get more enjoyment out of trying to venture them. So I probably won't be the one that films it. So that's always kind of a limiting factor. Um. You know, I obviously have a lot of experience and young guys don't. They just don't. They have the ability to outperform me hands down. It's just a matter of if they want to stick with it and are doing it. What do you see wanting to do that to get into that the video side. Is it guys who have accomplished things in hunting, or they want to figure out how to be uh, you know, a cameraman for TV shows or like who are the guys who are your clientaile for that thing? Or is it like guys coming from other industries wanting to learn more about the hunting side of stuff. Mm hmmm, I don't. I don't think there's too many big time hunters that are doing it other than uh my buddy Sam avorite he's a big hunter and I hunt with him and he's an awesome photographer. Um, but yeah, I mean most the other guys enjoy you know, capturing and sharing the hunt and telling that story as much as hunting themselves. And that's really the key, I think, because if you can't prioritize the filming and the documenting of the hunt, you're never going to be the best. You know. It's kind of the sacrifice you have to make if you want to if you want to create content around hunting or fishing or whatever it is, you can't be in front behind the camera both. So it's usually not guys that really like hunting or fishing. Yeah, makes sense, makes sense. Yeah, it gets spent less time with the bow in your hand. And for sure, so earlier you're talking about you know, toting in a heavy h heavy camera and all that stuff, and uh done a little bit of that. It's terrible. But last year, um I did purchase a stone Glacier pack, so here you go, there's your plug. Man. But yeah, man, yeah, use that thing in the heel of wilderness and it was pretty epic. And uh you you uh are employed their stone glacier and you all make some good stuff. Um So I would assume that being employed a stone glacier, especially if talking to Pete like you kind of got to walk the talk, you know. So, uh, you've been doing a lot of backpack hunting through the years. Yeah, I mean I was pretty fortunate. I gotta huh and more than most people. Even while documenting hunt, brother and I and so we just always switched on and off. So it was kind of like one man's job split between two. So half of my job. Like, we were just so busy because our job was to be pro efficient in front of the camera and behind it, which is a pretty rare situation. You know, we had to be skilled fly fisherman, skilled bow hunters, skilled rifle hunters. You know, we filmed all this stuff from tile hunting to antelope archery, to archery, elk rifle out archery, deer hunt deer eastern Montana, hunting them in the mountain, it's hunting black bear, you know. So I would say that, you know, not the best hunter out there. I think I know enough to be deadly. I've definitely spent a lot of time out backpack hunting. I would definitely not hesitate to keep up and handle some pretty crappy conditions with the best of them. I definitely wouldn't say I'm the most knowledgeable animal hunting. You know, guy that knows everything where they're gonna be when they're gonna be that type of stuff, going out there doing it being a savage and back back hunting. You know, I feel like I've been able to I would confidently say that I feel like I can hang with most dudes on that stuff. That's a lot of guys listening right now. You know, I think that a lot of that was just because I had to deal with camera here. Yeah, my packs ten of fifteen pounds? Have you actually you just kind of have to develop about mental toughness and forward. Yeah, that's what makes me laugh about those dudes who salt toothbrushes and half is like, do you apparently don't feel your hunts? You know, I have told it, a few batteries around in my back and that crafts heavy, not to mention big lenses and all that stuff. You know, So like the whole uh ounces or pounds and pounds is pain? Is kind of that that's not really true, especially if you're filming your stuff. But you know, on that note, like what are the things that you really need to to keep in mind when it when it comes to like trying to survive, you know, three or four days out there by yourself or not by yourself but you know, with your your life on your back. I mean, shelter, food, water is pretty pretty simple, basic stuff. I mean, having good gear goes a long ways, and being more comfortable out there costs a lot more money, but it's definitely valuable. And then I would say a good investment if you're serious about doing it over the long term. Um, I'm having something like an in reach or a way to communicate. Uh, it's pretty handy as far as giving you some peace of mind or other people peace of mind. But um, I don't know, man, I feel like common sense just goes a long ways. I don't feel like there ever was a big learning curve for me. But I'm just kind of that type of personality that if I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna be prepared. I'm gonna think it out, and I'm gonna spend probably too much time researching and making sure I know how to do it, versus you know someone that's just gonna kind of loosely go for it. Um. Not there's anything wrong with that, but I'm just that's not me. So yeah, did you gradually go into overnighters, like say, like you know, I don't know if you remember back to your first one or whatever. But like you're like, Okay, I'm gonna go out for one night and make it, and then I'm gonna go out for three and then I'm gonna go on a hunt or was it just like no, I'm gonna just make this hon happen this year in a back Pex doll and it's gonna be fun. Yeah. I mean we've we pretty much went for pretty early on in the game. Um yeah. I mean the only bad experience I remember is packing my first ball out and I had an everly stockpack that just killed my shoulders. Ever since then, I just like, I'm gonna have to get back dock because this is miserable. Um yeah. Other than that, I mean I always kind of knew that good boots were a necessity, and you know, we have spent some time, you know, I think when we first started, Travis still working at Bob Wartz, so we had access to some discounts, So you know, we had spent some time being pretty avid at skiing and other activities, so we kind of nude the value of good gear. And so he may be kind of jumped past some of that natural progression that a guy would have if he hasn't hunted where maybe he thinks he can go with a cheaper alternative and then finds out later that he should have just got the quality piece from the get go. So I think we're set up pretty well, you know, off the bat, and so we didn't have too many hiccups. Obviously dial in your kid or like man, like I didn't pay attention to the sleeping bags. Pretty bulky, It works great, but it doesn't fit in my pack, or like I need more space or why did I bring this? Or you know, I forgot my toothbrush and I don't have a lens container and a small you know, think of contact solution because we always wore contacts. So just you know, stupid little stuff like that. But the bulk of it, and especially now with there's so much information out there, I feel like guys get all hung up on what they need to bring. But it seems pretty cut and dry, yes to me, Yeah, yeah, And I think I learned that some last year. You know, we kind of just jumped right into it because I drew a pretty good tag that required it, and uh, you know, we didn't do too bad as far as the back country stuff goes but I definitely think I can cut some stuff that you know, you read on the internet that you need and then you get out there like, ah, this is I never touched that. You know, this is dumb. But uh, I think there's a lot of opinion on a lot of different gear and product and whatnot for for the bad country, you know, like, uh, you know you'll work for you work for Stone Glacier. There's a lot of good pack companies, are a lot of good apparel companies. There's a lot of good this and that. But one of the things I'm always interested in from guys is their water system because I think that that's something that like, well, hey, it's life or death and be like, it's things that dudes don't have any brand loyalty or anything too, so they're just trying to find the absolute best thing that works. Right, So, like, what's your water system look like? Uh, right now, I'm running either a Sawyer squeeze or uh I scarry pen that I use once temperatures get down to freezing those at least the Sawyer squeeze, you know, I can freeze if there's water in there and then it won't work. And so yeah, I pretty much run those two systems early season. I mean, the sawyers are just they're light, and they're easy and don't cost how much money, you know, I guess I would just say, take more than one of the bat you know, there's a bag that you fill up and then squeeze it through the filter. Take more than one bag. You know. The first time I was introduced to it, my buddy had it, and he only had one bag, and then that broke and it was about impossible to squeeze water through there without having dirty water leak out and go right down the same filter in your bottle, so I know, and then the starry pen is great. I mean, it seems like magic just using Uvy light. But yeah, you know, I pretty much switch because I'll run a platypus bladder. But as soon as it becomes a freezing temperature situation, you know your tube is gonna most likely freeze up. I'll run now genes at that point. And then it's just so easy to use the stery pen with the nal genes that I just switched my whole system to that. Yeah, I got you. Yeah, then you pretty much uh stole our system. I promise that you didn't longer than we have. But that's the same thing Tyler and I both do is kind of go back and forth tween. Well, we have saw your minis, which I think we're gonna try to get a regular standard this year because those minis don't they don't convey in a volume. It seems like, you know, it's just kind of tedious to get a whole leader. You know, might take you five or six minutes to make a whole leader squeeze. When I've heard that the regular or the I don't know what they call him, this to saw your uh is a little quicker, but our walmarts Walmarts don't carry that, so eat the mini. But yeah, it always getches me in a little bit on the steropen because like if you fill up yourn aal gene and you stick the steropen in there, there's like a little bit of water around the outside that isn't really getting scary pan you know what I means. I always feel like it's a it's a little bit of an incomplete system. But I haven't got sick yet, you know, I don't know in some pretty sketchy water for that, yeah sick. Well last year, uh, you know, we were in the desert southwest, and we had to go to cattle tanks pretty much, and it was pretty sketchy water. It tasted too. If we hadn't had uh like flavorings, dude, I don't think I could have done it. It was straight up algae water, you know, It's just yeah, I would. I think if the water is really really bad, a pump or you know, some other system that you squeeze it through the filter, it's probably best. But I mean, I bet I could get away with drinking the water in so many places that I filtered. It's not even funny, man, that's cool. I try to air on them. I try to air on the side of safety. Yeah, barely in the spring. I mean, there's plenty of times I just felt my algae up on the mountain. But yeah, yeah, that's true. Snow milt. You know, it's probably pretty clean when you get up there, pretty high and snow melt and there's not about many animals and there's no cattle or anything like that. I mean, you'd be pretty rare circumstances. I think you get sick, but you never know, are you. Um so, like on a on a hunt, if you're on the hunt, Like, are you storing some water when you go past it or are you just planning on this is how much I need for a day and every night when we come back to camp, we're gonna get it from this creek or whatever and fill up and go. Uh. It kind of just depends on how much water is available. If it's tough to get water, I'll just sack up and carry a day or longer on my back. Uh. I usually try to carry if the water's limbit, will try to carry enough water to get me through the rest of the day, of that night, in the next morning, because if you hunt hard all day and water is twelve feet down below you, You're not gonna want to go down there. And I'd rather just carry that extra water with me um and then deal with it the next day when I'm moving around, you know, hunting again. But if water is super plentiful, I'll honestly just carry pretty limited amounts. Like I was out of scouting the other weekend, and I think I had eleven or twelve miles to get back to the truck, and I very much only put about twenty or thirty ounces in my bladder, just enough to kind of get me up into the saddle, and then I basically filled up again as soon as I had gained all that verb. So, you know, again, I think that's pretty common sense stuff is trying to think about where you're gonna be and how you're gonna hunt. So speak you can't you can't hunt well, you can't perform well you're not hydrated. So I always air on the side of having plenty of food and having plenty of water and having a good sleeping path, sleeping well, because I don't care how savage you are. If you don't eat you thing, you know, drinking anything, and you don't sleep, your body is gonna shut down and suck. It's gonna let you down. Is one of my favorite pastimes. Actually, splenty of water. Yeah, and uh they I don't know, like maybe it's just being a flat lander or what, but it just seems like it takes like three plus leads a day for me up there, just for drinking alone, you know, not to mention that eight twelve whatever you gotta have for your for your meal at night and all that. You know, it takes quite a bit once you start really thinking about you know, we uh do some truck camp and do some backpacking, but a lot of times our truck camping remote nowhere in your water, so uh, you know, you gotta bring big jugs with you. And it's like it's crazy how fast you go through those things, you know, whenever you're making food and all that kind of stuff. So it takes a lot of prep and you got kind of gotta know where you're going, what you're doing. And uh, you know, speaking of locations, UM, a lot of the world kind of zones in on uh Colorado for hunting for a good reason, because it's a really great opportunity state. Uh and um and some of the other podcasts we've done, we've talked a lot about Colorado because you know, we talk to some guys from there and whatnot, and that's where we're going this year. But you're from a different part of the country. And one of the reasons that we actually like going to Colorado is that you don't have to deal with grizzlies. Man. They sketch me out pretty good, you know, and it's just a part of that's right. Man. No, I'm not watching any Montana while videos trying to creep and figure out where you all are, because it maybe one of these days. Well, I'm saying I have no problem I like hunting grizzly spots because then I know guys aren't showing up. Yeah, and that's what I want to talk to you about. It's kind of like, you know, I always think of it as a negative, but I know that there is that part to it where it's like, you know, there's only a percentage of the hunters out there that are comfortable hunting in grizz country, and you know it sounds like you are. Is that something that you just uh came into or did you have to really take some steps to get comfortable with it? No, I mean I probably was aired on the side of being less ah worried about it. Then maybe I should be. Um, I don't know. I think if you actually look at the statistics, I mean, your chance to die and just driving down the road is pretty astronomically greater than being attacked by a grizzly bear. So it's all about perspective, right. But there's a lot more people driving. There's more people driving, and I live in grizzy country. You know, if you if you put yourself in your bedroom, you know, But I get what you're saying, yeah, And I think if you're smart and don't do anything real stupid, then you know you're odds go down even more. Do you mean like around the woods and and make food sounds to grizzlies? You mean do something steved We'll see I primarily bugle, so they would have to really be hungry. They don't want to have to take down a big angry bowl out whirsus like a cow or a calf. I mean stuff like, Hey, if I'm hiking in the dark and grizzly bear country, I'm gonna pull my bear spray out, pour my my handgun and have it in my hand, have it ready. Or you know, the spring we saw two giant grizzlies where we had to go hike through super fast to get on these black bears and started getting thick. I just pulled my bear spray out in my hand. You know, I'm not scared, but I know that if there's one in here, we're probably gonna have a closer, quicker encounter. I'm just gonna be a little bit more prepared, you know. For me, it just it doesn't bother me that much. I think hunting would be pretty lame if there was no hell element to risk involved at least um and like it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't wild. Like I'm great with grizzly bears and great with wolves. I think we need to manage them a lot more than we do. I don't think at grizzlies have a great appreciation of like the human threat at the moment. See yeah, but I've never had a bad encounter with a bearry yet hopefully I don't. But you know, I mean, if you talk to guys like Clay Lancaster, He's a big sheep guy from a k and I spent time with him documenting a sheep hunting Mexico this year, you don't know how many times and they have been bluff charged by grizzliest times. I mean, and you'd probably have some pretty good stuff to say about it. I mean, I feel like grizzlies generally or just going about their business, you know, I mean, it's a weird odds scenario where they attack a human in wild places. You know. You you mentioned uh handgun as well. What kind of handgun do you carry in grizzly country? Not just around a glock ten millimeter that's pretty bad news going carry it on my hip. You know, I have one in the chamber and ready to roll. But you reach for the spray first. No, if I got the gun, I'm reaching for the gun. Got you. So the spray is kind of like what you said. You know, you get your spray out or whatever. You're walking through stuff. But you think I don't care. I don't always carry it gun. Yeah, if I'm feeling the way down the kick gun gets left. What about if you are walking into like a gup poller or getting the second load? What what's your what's your precautions for that? I mean, just try to get a visual site on the carcass and you know, I guess when I leave, taking some mental cues on how it looked and we left and see if it's disturbed, makes some noise go in there. But I mean once you're there too worried about it? Yeah, do you go back at the guys? Yeah? I would, Yeah, for sure. Um, I don't really see any difference between night and day other than you can see a little bit further. But I mean at night, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, if I want to go and get my beat, I'm gonna go in and get Yeah, I can see where there's like old if it's cold and I can come back the next day in daylight, I probably will. But if it's like I need to get this ball out, like I'm definitely going back in the dark. Yeah, I can see where there's like always like a risk versus reward on you know, you have if you can go in and get the whole thing out in six hours, then the grizz doesn't have time to set up it's uh, you know, or find to kill or whatever, you know. But at the same time, if it does get there in an hour six and it's one am in the morning, it's a pretty scary situation for me. Some of it. I think it's like the savage nature of like even if there is a grizz in there, like I'm gonna go in there and like claim my kill, get the hell out of there, you know, and then there will be a pootball names Zach No, I'm just getting there's going to be a dead grizzly. Yeah, that's what that's what we're Yeah for sure. Man. What about like you know, you talked about walking around and you do you mostly bugle. Is that something that you think is just because that's your style and you enjoy that type of encounter, or is that like what you think is the most effective in y'all's mountains. I mean I was like killing balls that way as all. Yeah, I just for me, that's the ultimate way, the way that I enjoy the most as far as hunting them. Yeah, I calcol and calcol bowls and stuff like that. But I mean, if you're hunting the rut, it's because the balls are bugling and that's the excitement of it all. So I don't see how it gets better than a bowl. Want to come in and kick your ass and you fool them put an arrow in them. So yeah, it's pretty I mean, if there's a big balls with cows and he's pretty regularly, I'm probably not gonna say a word to him and try to sneak in silently. But if that doesn't work, I'm definitely not gonna not hunt him. I'm not you know. I resort to bugle in and try and find a way to get close enough to piss him off and pull them away. But I'm situational and how I hunt him. But I have my preferred messages every day I'm in the field, I'm gonna be ripping a bugle. Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, unless unless I literally just left the truck and I see a huge bulls bugling and he's got thirty cows, and I might not, but yeah, shoot, man, when I go up in on vacation the summertime in the mountains, I gotta rip a bugle just because it's what you do. You know, you get there. It's just like it's just the call you gotta make. Man, it just feels right, you know, and it's just the what you what you do. But so I think it's a technique that like probably is not as effective if you don't know what you're doing. I think it's pretty easy for a ball to figure out that you're saying the wrong stuff or you don't sound right pretty quick. But I'm almost okay with it. I'm not like, don't bugle unless you're good. It's like almost makes it better for me because you know, I've spent the time to learn how to make sounds I think are pretty pretty realistic as far as an animal understanding that tell me your your your biggest mistake when it comes to when it's like not something you repeatedly do because it sounds like you learn from experiences, but like the worst thing you ever did in a calling scenario. Mm hmm, oh, come on, just's gotta be I'm just I'm a bad person when you're like, tell me that one time your favorite ever? Like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Have you ever had calling mess up a hunt though, where you like you just if you were quiet or whatever, it's been better. Oh, I'm sure I messed up a million of them. And half the time you don't know what happened, you know, unless you had a visual on that animal. It's pretty tough to say if it was your calling, if it was the wind, if you didn't make enough noise, if you made too much noise, you know. Yeah, for sure. Do you feel like you're are you like a herd bull hunter? Or do you just go after bulls and shot legible and you're happy with it because you got the meat. I'm primarily a trophy hunter at this point, and I don't think that's a bad thing in the least bit, as long as you're using what you killed too, you know, it's it's a part of I just I enjoy the challenge of it. I mean, depending on what I'm doing and why I'm out there, and if we're building content around it, sometimes that'll alter that a little bit. Um. But if I'm just hunting for me, I'm definitely trying to kill a bigger, mature herd bull for sure. Yeah, past on a lot of legal bulls in pursuit of something bigger. Yeah, man, not me. It's different whenever you know, you live out of state, you know, you just kind of get to go every now and then, you know, and you like to eat ilk, and uh, you don't have list peak cow tags or anything you can go you know, shooting November, you know what I mean. Yeah, it kind of comes in waves though, because you know, my freezer is actually getting a little bit slammer pickings at this point in time. So yeah, and if i haven't killed a big bull in a few years, I'm kind of like, hey, I better just I'm gonna kill one this year. So, I mean, it may not be ilk, but white tails are an option there around Bozeman. I know, you guys think of him as rats, you know, but there's a bunch of them around there, right. Oh yeah, good white tail hunt in Montana. I'd love to do it more. But I just love mule there too, and it's just a weird I wish you didn't have to wear I mean, hunters orange if you're bow hunting them, you know, out of a tree stand there in rifle season because it seems like you know, archery hunting white tails in the ruts probably pretty awesome. You can't kill him in orange, totally, can. I mean I shot my anti Open opening week in a gun season last year or the bow you know, blaze orange. So it's it's not a big deal. This is like, it's just not the way I want to do it, and it's just a hassle. It feels weird too. Yeah. Yeah, So you know one of the things that you've done at least some film that I thought it's pretty cool and and probably if there's like elk tactics that I don't understand, it's this and that's the wallow hunting side of stuff, you know. And it sounds so easy you find water set up on it, but I've done it a few times and it does. It's not easy, right because you've got thermals, you get all this different stuff that you've got to kind of work through. Um, there's a pretty infamous video of you shooting an elk over a wallow. I don't remember what the title of it is, but it's like a fourteen year old bull, right, like a giant ambush. That's ambush. Okay, yeah, so um, is that something that like that hunt kind of turns you onto the wallow thing or is that something you've been perfect perfecting for quite a while? I mean I haven't killed a bowl off the wall since then. We did go back the next year in Travis King, and again it's just situational that particular place that we hunt. It's insanely thick and pretty predator ents. The bowl is definitely bugle, but not as much as other places, and you have to bugle them to like five feet in some of those areas, and it's impossible not to make noise. It just creates a lot of challenges. There's not a lot of elk um and so kind of that first time we had resorted basically that to sit in this wall because four days had literally had seen water. We're like, man, like, where are these elk drinking? And there was a pond in a place you wouldn't expect to ever hunt, just because it was pretty close to a road, sure enough. We're like, well, let's just go walk around and see if there's animals coming in. And there are two wallows around the pond you really couldn't see from the road. Um, They're like, well, dang. Like I didn't see any real fresh elk tracks. There were elk tracks there, but I had seen a really fresh bear track and I had a bear tag. I was like, man, we should just go sit it tonight. Maybe there's bears. I mean, there's bears, there's elk whatever. And so we sat in it wasn't you know, two hours in before I had there out that bowl and it was it was pretty insane. Um. Some other Humble obviously hunted it because there was kind of a rough, you know, some sticks, a little blind built there, But um, we kind of just went in and modified it a little bit and hunted it and killed The next year we invested a lot more time hanging cameras and building blinds, you know, natural blinds for season. But um, it's a really good way to kill them in certain areas. I just I don't prefer being patient like that. I'd rather run on Google at him and be on the move. And do it that way. But I'll definitely use that tactic, yeah, if I think it's my best chance of getting a bowl killed or be if I know there's a really big one in the area and I'm feeling like he's going to hit a wall you know, how do you how do you use like, how do you use the wind there to to your advantage, because it just feels like, you know, I've been on some eilk cunts um and it feels like when we sit a wallow, it's like, well, you have to have the wind blow in one direction or the other kind of and it's like when you're sitting in this little wallow or pond or whatever it is in the middle of the mountains, it's like, well, they could come from anywhere. It feels like, yeah, I would do with a couple of things. I mean, you can try to play the wind, which you can definitely move around the wallow in some places as the wind moves um, which is what we did the day that Travis killed his bulls. We started the morning on one side of the wallow and then the wind change and moved to the other side, which worked out really well obviously, But if I was going to sit a wall up on a mountain and not have an actual blind in there. I would definitely carry a second set of clothes, just because it's pretty tough to hike anywhere in the mountains and not sweat and so you know, just being able to put on some clothes that you know you're not gonna not not have scent, like there's gonna be some scent profile. But I think you can definitely make it smaller, larger, depending on how stinky you are, you can you can you can eliminate some of that by you know, taking some extra clothing in there, cooling down, even wiping down, and then putting clean clothes on and then not moving, not sweating, you know, just having a less I feel like bubble of scent in there. But if I was going to be serious about hunting a wallow, I would just pack a blind in there, unless it was crazy far back in like a ground blind and close thing that like an actual unclosed ground blind, and I would probably go in there well over a month before season and you know, manipulate some of the train there and vegetation to accommodate the blind and try to you know, tuck it in there as well as they could, and then I would show up in there again until hunting season, and I would be just extremely I would take kind of like white til hunting. You know, try not to walk in on the trail you think the elk are going to come in on. Don't be touching any branches or sticks. Just try to like tiptoe in there and get in and and sit it. I mean, I don't know. I'm a big proponent of on wall those and stuff like that, Like you got to be there from sun up sundown, unless your trail cameras really telling you that they hit it at a very specific time. Because all the walls I've ever had cameras on it seemed like it was very random of when they came through. Could have been could have been at six in the morning, it could have been at noon, it could have been at seven thirty at night. It's you got to dedicate your entire day to it. Is it worth running cameras on a wall? Uh? Yeah, don't. I've never gotten any intel that was like, oh, I'm gonna go kill this bowl at this time, But it'll give you more information than you had, which is an advantage of some kind, whether it's a little bit or a lot, and you kind of I didn't get a sense of some of the caliber of elk or you know, potentially, but yeah, um, walls are kind of a weird thing. If there's a lot of them, you might only see a bowl there once. You know, if there's not a lot, he might hit it more regularly. But you know, we've had cameras on wallos before that. I didn't see a single elk for a month and a half and then September one on or you know, late August rolls around, and all of a sudden, it's a new bowl every day running through. Uh, and you can just tell they're moving in from somewhere else and they're starting to do their thing and looking for cows and getting all stinky and ready. Yeah. Man, that gets me fired up. I'm ready for that stuff. You know a little more we do, uh, we pretty much get to leave, you know, usually ninety five to a hundred degree temps and the head of the mountains and then you know, sixteen hours you're up there where it's you know, forty at night and sixty five said me during the day if if it's good weather, you know, and uh, the elk hopefully you're making a little noise and getting ready and uh, man, it's not long for for that stuff to happen. So uh, I hope that you have a good season this year. Man. Thanks for hanging out with us and and you know, kind of tell us about your experiences and whatnot. What you said that you're gonna do probably one hunt this year with Montana while that'll be on YouTube. Yeah, I'm hopefully going to be filming the hunt. But my buddy Brandon Purcell just rifle hunting meal during the mountains, probably towards the end of rifle season here in Montana. And then ah, I'll be trying to shoot a couple of olk with my buddy Andrew with our bows. We're gonna hut Idaho in Montana and so come we might be filming some of that. We'll see. How's the hoppers this this year? The hopper fishing? Yeah, uh, they're not out mask yet. I went fishing with my girlfriend yesterday and she rode me for a little bit. Uh, if you go your road type of deal. Actually, Ah, there's not that many on the banks yet and they're not really looking for it. But where river did you fish? I fished the Yellowstone. Yeah, we got to flood Yellowstone for a half day. It's pretty pretty sweet. Man. That's a cool spot. It's a cool river. Man. I don't know. I'm glad I'm a hunter though, because fishing is just there's so many people. Yeah, yeah, it can be a pain. Um. I think that's why Tyler and I've kind of got into the uh the high country fish and stuff, you know, small streams and whatnot. You know, if if you if you're not too hung up on giant slobs, then and you just like beautiful landscapes and pretty fish. You can get away from falls, you know, and that's throw a three way on your back and go. And that's the way you find there, get away from the folks. There's a pretty big mountain cutthroat stuff if you take it seriously and do a little research. Yeah, you know, we haven't got into that yet. Well for real, we might have to use the zag mountain research. But we've tried a little bit of that and Tyler has caught some rios and stuff, but we just haven't got to go up north very far. When we were in Bozeman, we were talking to one our our buddies there Garrett, and uh, we're talking about, you know, maybe going up and trying to find some grailing and lakes and stuff like that, and he was like, uh, yeah, there's a lot of gres up there. So that killed it pretty quick, you know, So we just take that low. Oh man, you guys aren't cut out for elk hunting our high country fish and Colorado and Utah. That's right, man, we're staying down here where there's no grizz. Hashtag no grizz. That's what we're gonna name this podcast. Anyways, Zach, we appreciate the time, man, Thanks so much for hanging out with us in Good Luck this season. Yeah. Absolutely, thanks for having me on you guys. Yeah, now that was some killer info. Don't forget to subscribe in A five star review means a ton to us, remember it. This is your element living in

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