00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler Jones and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening on My Woods people? We are in the mouse House right this minute, hanging out and we have a good guest today. But first, Casey Smith, my co host, my brother. You've been gone for so long. Actually I was going for we both have been gone for so long. This is our first time to do a podcast together. Uh like that. We aren't on the phone in like three weeks. Yeah, it's crazy, but I'm I'm glad because uh it's uh, it's just been kind of lonely around here. Not really. I had a lot of fun while you were gone, and we had fun while we were gone. But me and uh the wife just got back from the Rockies as you and your wife did not long ago, and the two kiddos, um and me here to a dree inside my house. We got here at one am and the a c hadn't been on for five days and we're trying to go to sleep, and it's like I felt like a dog panting. You know. It was pretty bad, But um no, it was cool man. I got to go see the college buddies and hanging out with them. Uh did like the close to close to the cabin kind of go play fine places to fish and stuff and hung out and ate good. Um, a lot of them are having babies, so there's a lot of a lot of like baby playing going on, which ain't really my quadrant right now, you know, but uh, I like the babies. They're all cool, they're fun, and it kind of learned a little bit about Yeah, close to a year, they're not really that fun. There's a couple of them are at that age or so they're cool. Yeah, but uh, there's only one, a little bit baby. He's the first boy of the group. But anyways, um, yeah, Like what's good about that? Is my wife like, yeah, she gets baby fever, but she also, like it, is very observant of about the bad things of kids. Like on the way home, she was like, if we had a baby right now, this would be a terrible drive. And I was like, you're right about that. A bunch of other things will be terrible. To just keep that in mind. No, I mean, you can't take a nap, you can't sleep. I'll find something to do with all these diapers. No, but I mean one day we're looking forward to that, but not yet. You know. But what that allowed us to do since we are child listens, we got to go camp at Mirror Lake, which is at eleven thousand and thirty feet I think, um, which you can't do that with a baby, and uh it was pretty awesome, man. Like that lake. We fished and I got so tired of catching ten and twelve inch fish that I just kind of sat down and looked around. And you just catch fish on drive fives all day long, like little rainbows and little brooks, which, uh, did you eat any No, we didn't. I didn't bring the stuff to do it. Um pretty much because I was really really rushed to leave the house and I couldn't find my MSR pocket rocket in time. And the burn bands are for real in Colorados around a lot of the places out west. I was surprised. Yeah, but anyways, that was a super cool experience and uh, my wife is definitely love with the mountains now. So we uh we did that. Got down to forty four degrees at night, dude, how about that? Though it was so good, I was straight up freezing when I woke up a few times. I might have scrape, you know, but it was it was pretty It was pretty nice man, you know too. And now we're back here in the heat in the forecast is brutal. Look, it's really brutal. I left, the forecast was like rain for the next year, okay, and we showed back up. And apparently we took that away when we left, because now it's like between one on one and one oh four for the next ten days. What on earth? All I can say is it rained while we were gone, right, I get oh, y'all? Or we were gone. Yeah, it was one of those real weird things where like some areas got three inches in some areas got none. Yeah, I think we got quite a bit at my house. And it is toasty, dusty dry now, Like it does not take much hundred and five degree heat and direct sun to just dry things out real quick. Talking like all the beauty berry plants around my house are just like wilted already. Yeah, it's just a natural brown. I know, I know. I saw that this one on my run, actually right outside my driveway. It's all their tracks too, and my driveway. I was gonna take a picture in the dust, but I didn't. It was in the dust. It could have easily been blown away, but uh, yeah. Um. Today we have podcasts with Jared Mills of Midwest White Tail and looking forward to this because Jared is just like a big buck killer. I mean last year he killed or something like that. I can't keep up with it, man, there's some any johnts and like encounters with other giants. It's yeah, I'm not even sure that the buck he killed last year would be legal in Texas with the spread rule. Like it's so narrow and which makes it more impressive because it's just straight mass and times, you know, like it's and and it's it's an awesome buck. You know what. Actually, let's just go ahead and link to that video. Why don't we some notes so if you're listening and you want to want to watch that real quick, you can scroll down and look at the notes and that video will be in here. But did you you caught a pretty good brown while you're up there? Didn't you? I did? I forgot to include that. I we um, we did fish the Arkansas River a little bit um and I caught a pretty good brown. So what we did is like we got to the Arkansas and I told my wife, I was like, look, I'm about to just guide you, I ain't bringing a rod like you are the fisher person. Fisherwoman. I just say fisherman because I feel like that's all encompassing. But whatever it is, you're the fisherman in this trip, and I'm gonna guide you. I'm gonna help you catch fish. What do we do? She is throwing this hopper dropper rig gets her hopper smoked by like a sixteen inch brown. That's a pretty good, pretty good fish for the river. Really, I mean, the Arkansas isn't known for giants, it's known for quantities. And uh man, this fish like just jumps like three times and then it heads downstream and I'm like, give it line. So she puts her rod tip down, gives a little bit line. It goes down a rapid and then she didn't know not to, but then she puts a tension on the rod and she's just pulling that fly directly out of fish's mouth that comes off. It's crazy, Like, how go ahead. I'll talk about this in a second, but well, the situation is, uh, we don't get to trout fish and rivers like that often. So when we do, like I'm always trying to teach her um, but we also have that husband and wife relationship where like she doesn't always like to learn from me as much she does, but she doesn't, you know. It's kind of one of those things. But it was a moment where there was like a good like years worth of coaching had to be done in like a second or two. Like all this scenario like we were in like some like some chest high and not well, what's the right I would have said, it's like we were in some black diamond stuff as far as like fighting fish and landing them, and uh, you know my wife is like, well the the greens right or something still like you know, pizza your You know, that's not nothing against her, but she just doesn't have a lot of experience. That's it. It's I mean, it's as much the user experience. And that's kind of what I was going to talk about. Um we just released a video and it's basically just shows everything that kind of went on on my trip. Um So I ended up catching like five native cutthroats called brown trout, brook trout and all this and that. The video it kind of starts out and I won't spoil it too much, but with a pretty epic fight on a brown trout that I caught, and I had a really lightweight rod, and like, you don't think about it too much in the moment and this and that. But like when I got to go back and watch me fighting that fish, I was like, I did some pretty good things. And I was like, you take for granted, like how many big baths have you fought at Lake Fork? You know what I'm saying, like the timber capital of the country. As far as like I mean, I mean, just solid fish I can get off, you know, I mean, that's a big fish I think in most places, but even like three or four pounders, you're trying not to get them wrapped around a stump and ideas to get the fish into and so you just think about how many fish you fought in your life compared to her, and it's it's an experience thing. And like and I've had the experience. I mean I've seen I've been in the boat or had it happened to me where I fish gets around a log and you or whoever it was, pulls the fish up to the log because what you're pulling is the bait. The hook hooks into the log and the fish easily gets off after that and so like when I you know, thinking of that, I watched this brown trout going to a brush pile and I'm just like holding them there until he wants to swim out, because if you pull him up to it and it gets hung your toast. And so these things like that, you know, you think about it's crazy that, you know, I've I've had to lose a lot of fish to learn things like that. My wife went through some learning pains on that deal because she's pretty heartbroke that she lost that fish. And that was kind of cool to see, to tell you the truth, like I was calling, yeah, you know, you know, now you know how this feels. It's like now you see my videos, you have more appreciation exactly. But wouldn't you know that, Like, Okay, so she doesn't have great balance, um and like I said, be teamers. Uh but uh, he gets out there and she she tries hard. You know, she's just in a new environment for completely. So in between like little pockets, I would hold the rod while she walked. Well, I'm constantly just flipping the fly out while I'm holding the rod, you know, in these little like gotta keep it up straight, right, Yeah, and these little like, you know, b level pockets. You know, they aren't like the prime spots or whatever prime lies. Well, when't you know, I get smoked by like a fourteen or fifteen incher and he's a fatty and I catch a fish, you know, and it's supposed to be herd. That's fishing. You know. I already gave her this whole spiel, but I wasn't even like really trying. It was just like I ain't gonna pass this up right here. I mean, I ain't stupid, you know. So I caught a fish. Yeah, fun times sometimes in Colorado, man, Yeah, for sure. Man, it's a good place. Saw a bunch of prong horns. Man, they're pretty. My wife wants to hun pronghorn too. Found that out on the trip. That was neat. That's cool. Yeah, she says it's because she can see them. She has a hard time seeing white tails, but she didn't have good vision, so but prong horns. She's like, I don't understand. They're just out there in the open like nothing else is like that. You know. It's just like you never see dear like that, and it's like, well there's different there. They you know, are built to survive on the planes, you know, in the wide open. They don't use their nose, they don't use their ears, they use their eyes. It's one thing their speed. I saw this picture the other day. I know we're getting far off topic and we need to get to Jerry, but this picture was from a a prong horn from It's like posterior, so the back of its head and you could still see its eyeballs. Oh, they must have deree visions. I actually have heard something that's there. Yeah, their vision is absolutely ridiculous. Whatever it is, I can't remember what it is, but it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's really really cool man. It's uh interesting animal they say. It's not related to like anything. Really, it's like interesting. It also has horns but they shed, Yeah, not anilers, but horns. But they understand and they're really just kind of like hair that's kind of matted up. It's really strange. But I want one day, man, one day. We always want to. It's like there's something cool about going and hunting places that you never have done before, you know. And uh, I think that's why it's cool to talk to people like Jared who you get to hunt like these. I mean don't get me wrong, he's a great, great hunter, but man, he's so blessed to hunt these places where they're giant bucks. And we can learn stuff from guys like him, you know, because like, yeah, uh, it's the experience things. Just like it goes back to that better to learn than from the person who actually gets to hunt giant bucks, you know, Like it's not like they're easier to kill, they're just bigger, you know. And and also from the experience side of things, he has seen more three plus yr old deer do x whatever that is, like check this scrape out or go to a field and feed at night. Whereas like because they have those deer, they get to see that, and we are like getting a picture of some you know, decent buck like once every two weeks, you know, and so it's hard to figure out a pattern from that. And so you can maybe take like this information from a guy who gets a picture of a mature buck like every other day and or sees deer moving certain ways every other day and like use that information to to make assumptions about the deer that you've got, you know. So it's a cool thing, man, And uh, I agree with you, Like that experienced thing is a is a big deal. So I say we get him on the phone and learn from them real quick. What do you think sounds good? A right, So on the phone now I have Jared Mills of Midwest Whitetail. Jared, how's it going, dude? Good Tyler? How are you man? I'm doing great, man, I'm starting to cool down. We have a c going. Uh. We live in Texas, so it's like a hundred and five here right now, and it's gonna be that way all weeks. So it's getting a little bit of a break break up here and we're in like the mid eighties this week, which is uh cooler than that have been so well, I'm I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, I can imagine. Those are the days that we tried to like We're like, okay, we're going to hang troup cameras on that day because it just gets so so hard, man, when it's when it's hot to get out there and walk around all day sometimes. Yeah, I hear you. So, Casey and I have been talking for a long time about how you always seem to be on just big giant bucks, and I was just kind of interested starting now when When did you start hunting mature or big white tails? Like, when was that something you're really interested in and driven to do? Um question, I'd have to think back a little bit, um, you know, I think really I started killed my first year. My first year with the bowl was like a little year and a half old basketrect gear, and I was just get one under my belt. And after that, I think even before that, I was obsessed. But big gear as a lot of afar, but I wanted to get one killing my Oh. Then basically after that it became passing here until I had one that I really wanted to shoot, I would say, I don't know. Somewhere around the time I started high school, it was about one that that change has taken place, and it just it became a game of trying to find the biggest deer possible, you know, running cameras and scouting, doing that tough stuff, and um became obsession, I guess, and I know a lot of guys we're in that same boat can really to it. But that's when I would say it started. So when you say you you shot a small one to get one into your belt, how old were you when you first shot your when you shot your first butt. I think I was in junior high at that point when I first shot my my first bill buck um, and I think I had went maybe one season without killing anything. It was my second year bell hunting when I killed my first buff. Mm hm. So I know you mentioned that you you guys are in the middle of a move right now. But did you grow up in Iowa. Yes, I grew up in eastern Iowa. I've moved around a little bit, and in fact, I didn't live in Austin, Texas for a couple of years. That was when I was younger. But thankfully that your turn days when you were playing guitar and singing the blues every night downtown exactly. I think I was in seventh grade, moved down there with my mom and went to junior High down there for a couple of years, and moved back to Iowa for high school. Cool. Oh, I bet the deer and Austin looked a lot different than the ones you were used to And yeah, exactly, seems like there's a lot of them, but they definitely looked different. There are a lot of them. They're like jack rabbits, about the same size too. Um, So what is it about just you know, we we kind of talked about this earlier a little bit off on the phone, but you know, we and I'm in the same boat as you. Targeting a mature buck is something that I really enjoy doing and there's nothing like it. But then there's kind of like this other facet or this like also other you know, it's not always just a mature bug, but like there's something about antler size sometimes that just makes it different. And what is it for you about chasing it big deer as opposed to just just a mature buck. Yeah, And I don't I won't speak for anyone else, I'll speak for me personally, but I think it's just some type of internal fascination with with big antlers. And you know, I know we all are a little bit careful when we talk about this because not everyone has the same access to, um, you know, antler size, and we're all located in different areas and and everything's relative. Um But I still think all of us as hunters have some type of fascination with big antlers. I mean, the whole antler growth process I think is an amazing process and it's um it's just a cool, cool thing happens with white tails, and unfortunately I'm in an area where there's a lot of big ones, big antler white tails, and and don't get me wrong, I love kill mature gear two. I've killed some some really old eight nine year old type year that you know didn't even score one thirty. So I love that part of it too. When when it comes to deer like that, um you know, there's the story factors I like the most, especially when you game years of history with the deer, or you know, a deer's then living in a high pressured area and he's you think about how many hunters he's eluded in those later nine years. Um So, then it becomes I really don't care about the side of the antlers. That's just a cool story. But in general, I think most guys would be in the same boat. If if there's a I don't know, let's say there's a five year old hundred fifty inch deer and then five year old thirty inch deer, most guys are going to take the long fifty every single time. Um So. You know, people sometimes like to deny that angler size doesn't matter, but I think there's the internal fastination and all of us. And for me, that's what it boils down to. It's just a you know, they're just kind of the biggest, baddest dudes on the block, and those are those are the ones I like to target. Yeah, I mean there's a reason why the rock Johnson makes so much money. Like he's a big dude, you know what I'm saying, Like people people like looking at that guy. But but I mean I'm the same way. Like you know, when like it's awesome to have a mature deer um that you're targeting, but when you've got one that that's so big that it's even more rare, I don't know, just like rare animals are awesome to me. I mean I just went up on a big, huge trip through the Rockies chasing after little tiny cutthroat trout that are native and super rare, you know, like they a lot of them inhabit less than ten percent of their original range, and it's they're rare, and I think that's cool. You know. I post a picture of a little tiny trout and everybody makes fun of me, and I'm okay with that because I just I think they're awesome and they're rare, you know, and so it's not they don't understand it. Yeah, exactly. And and there's such challenge aspect too that I think is inside of a lot of us that we want to make it, um, not as hard on us as possible, but you know we we love the most challenging situations and and being able to come out successful on those. And you know, going after a big antlerd white mature white tail is uh the challenging process. Absolutely. Yeah. So you know, in my opinion or thinking about this, I feel like half the battle when it comes to killing a big mature white tail is finding the permission or the opportunity on properties in which they live. So say that this may be this may be something that's not foreign to you right now with you moving, I don't know your situation exactly, but say you suddenly lose all your properties, like directly after the season closes, what does your process look like in the beginning as you start over trying to gain permissions? Yeah, and I am living at what you allude to. Um, And I haven't shared this with a lot of people yet, but um, I'm moving two hours away from all the properties that I have been used to hunting for the last few years, including the farm that I just bought, my first farm. Um, it was about last false. I'm moving two hours away from that too, so I'm not necessarily losing access to I'm keeping the farm and I'm and I still have access on the other farms. But it's a lot more difficult to hunt when it's two hours away. You can't get as much scouting time in, you can't do as many you know projects like like you normally what if it's just down the road. Uh. So I am in that boat of trying to find and some some new properties and gaining permission. Um, but I do again back to that challenging I love hunting new properties. Um. I was thinking about the CD because I was having this conversation with someone. Um, I've only killed the most bucks I've ever killed on one on the same pece of property is too. Um. Other than that, it's always I'm always gaining or losing permission on farms. So I'm used to hunting new farms. And you know, while it's it's difficult, and I would love to establish a ton of history with deer if it's uh, it's a lot of fun starting with a blank slate and learning something different in a different type of terrain, and just gaining more experience. So that's why I'm in right now. And really, like you said, to be able to hunt big deer, they have to be there. And uh I move into a good area where there is a lot of a lot of good deer um. The country and the terrain it is just perfect for it. Uh So it's really about getting permission on those pieces that aren't being hunted. Right now. There's a ton of public land, a ton of really good public land in southern Iowa. I would even go as far as name some of the public is better than from a private around just because it's just vast tracks and just thousands of acres of public land. Um. But for me and I have hunt public landing Aowa, Missouri. But for me, I love um the projects and being able to do things you just can't do on public land. UM. So I love the land management side. But for that reason, I want to I can afford another property right now, So I want to find a situation like I had before, which is where I do a lot of work for the landowner and exchange um, get hunting rights and management rights and that side of stuff. So that's Michael Um. Definitely not always an easy situation to find, but there are guys, even out of state, guys that on land in Iowa can only hunt every few years. You know, why not help them with the property to manage it, um, look over the property to set them up for when they do draw and come on. You know, situations like that is what I'm gonna be looking for places where I can kind of necessarily call my own but kind of act like it did my own and do all that way in management type stuff. Yeah, that sounds awesome, man, And that's a uh. I like that you have goals on that, you know, like you're not just like just trying to find you a piece of property to to hunt on. You know, you kind of have a vision of what you want that property look like and how you would like your access to play out on it, you know, and I don't It probably sounds like it's a little bit harder to achieve, but it sounds like you're up for the task, you know. So it's you And from watching the show, I can tell that you're not afraid to get after the work hard. Um. So on that note, like whenever you're finding a property. I know it's gonna be you know, different everywhere for like how much you can do to the property to attract big deer or uh, give yourself a good opportunity the big deer. But let's talk about finding a property that has say a world class deer or a very high end class dear for your joint area. Because some people, including us, don't really have a lot of world class deer running around. But you know there's you can pretty much say that most decent sized tracks, you're gonna have some sort of mature buck running around. You know, it might be, you know, just a good five year old eight point, but you know, it seems like you have a knack for finding these properties that do have just some moode grandie white tails on him here. That's what we say in Texas. Maybe just jumbos or something. I don't know, big bucks. You know. So, whenever you're assessing properties and thinking about door knocking or going and approaching people to gain access some way or form, are you using like maps more or are and you know, looking at terrain features and egg and that sort of thing, or do you actually do more of like the deer drive kind of thing where you're actually kind of assessing what beer in the heart and what kind of the genetic dynamic is in the area. I would definitely say I'm more of a map guy. I'll look at you know, Google Earth, or you'll get on county assessor sites where you can see the landowners um and that type of stuff. So who owns a lot of la in an area? Even what some of smaller pieces look like. I don't want other overlooked the smaller ones. And you know, I wish I could tell you there's a science behind finding and and getting on these big here on these new properties. But there's a lot of luck involved in that too. But it's there there. There's little things that I look for UM and one of the biggest things that access to the property, not only for yourself, but how it's easy is it for other people to mess up that property? You know? Is there is it? Um? You know on a on a river where there's a lot of people that can sneak in on boats and tresspass on the back side of the fall arm or um doesn't led up to some public land or are there houses in the area where you know you might cause you some trouble? So I look at how many sides can I access access it from from a hunting standpoint, but also what's uh, what's the outside pressure gonna do to it too? Too? So that's that's one thing. Um. And also look at the big picture from like a Google or standpoint, um, and how do all the other parcels connect to each other in a certain neighborhood? So I was it. You know, maybe there's a big block of timber here and a mile away another block timber, or maybe half mile away. Let's say, you know, how do the deer get from one timber to the next. You know, there's gotta be some little connecting pieces in there somewhere. So I think those are some overlooked spots too. Um, just a little travel routes, um, pinches, travel corridors, things like that, um, so you can easily find on a Google Earth. So I would definitely say, get back to your question, I'm more of a math guy. Rather than go out and drive the roads and try to target a specific deer, I usually do that after I get permission on uh, you know, two or three or four properties ideally where I can then start finding the deer I want to target. So when you. I mean, are you just trying to get as many permissions as you can so that you have the ability to say, there's say you've got you know, seven properties that you can access to hunt. Are you you know, like maybe only one of those has I mean maybe they all have a mature buck on them, or most of them, but maybe only one of them has a Boon and Crockett class deer on it or something like that. I mean, is that how you're kind of approaching the situation? Yeah, I mean it's an odds game, right, so you know, you're you're increasing your odds to having that that class of deer the more properties you have. And let's like every every property goes through up and down years. Um, so if you're locked into one or two properties and it's a down year for some reason, whether there's a lot of pressure to be here before a lot of good deer got killed, lot young geer got killed, whatever it may be. Um, you're you're not stuck in a in a situation. You can move on down the road to a different farm. And for me, it's just about running cameras on all those on everywhere I have permission to really find the deer. And then I can hear win on that single property. But I like to be spread out at first and have permission on as many farms as possible, uh, and cast a wider net so that I can find the gear that I really wanted to targain. Yeah. So with a bunch of properties and running trail cameras like that, I mean, are you what's your strategy? Like? I mean, I feel like if you had several properties that were you know, a d plus acres, you could you could get kind of overwhelmed with the trail camera game if you didn't have a good strategy going into it. Yeah, and you're spot on with that, you can. Um. And for me, I probably let my cameras do more scouting for me than most guys. You know, I do scouting, but most of my scouting takes place after the season, and I trying to apply that knowledge, um through the following season. I don't do much in season scouting. I don't do much summer scouting for for that matter. UM, I try to let my trail cameras do it for me. And I guess mainly comes down to time. UM. If I have permission on a lot of farms around hunting three or four farms, and uh, to try to spend the time out in the field scouting is next to impossible. I work a lot of hours and UM just simply don't have the time to get out in the field scout. If I'm gonna be out in the field doing something, I want to be in a tree stand with a bow in hand hunting and not just sitting from a driveway looking at something. You know. Um, So for me, it's just let the cameras do the work. And uh when we can dive into trail cameras at some point too, But I think, um, that's a bigger opportunity what people realize. I love using trail cameras, and and not just for the obvious standpoint of, hey, I got a picture of a good deal, I'm gonna go hunt in my record picture of them, but really studying those pictures and especially over the course of the season. I was I was doing this a few weeks ago with some of my seventeen images that I categorize everything I look back and why was the deer here at this time? And how did you get here? And whereas you most likely better based on where I'm getting pictures of them, and I think there's so much you can learn that gets completely overlooked on trail camera. So back to my point, I let the cameras do a lot of work for me. Um, I'd rather spend an extra hundred dollars on a trail camera than UM go spend you know, four or five hours of my time when I could be doing something else. Yeah. Sure, and we we absolutely love trail cameras too, and it's um, you know, they're they've kind of been all the age for about I don't know, ten years or so now, and there almost seems to be a trend. I don't know if it's just like a cool thing to say or if it's you know, I can definitely see some merit too. But like that, well, you know, I just don't rely on my cameras that much because you can miss some stuff because you're so relying on them. But I think if you take and it's like with any tool that you have as a hunter, if you use it the right way and uh, don't use anything as a crutch, you know, it can be a super effective tool. So how are you, UM, I would assume that you have issues, especially you know, since that you have uh you know, had film of you killing gihnt deer people. I'm sure know that you uh hunt areas or whatever. How do you deter individuals from you know, maybe steal in your cameras or trying to go in and mess with with your area or uh you know, stealing cards or whatever. Yeah, it's a touchy um subject just because you know, I haven't had any hues with people you know and cameras fortunately. Um. I think I think there's some aspect of guys being scared, especially it's a double edged sword or it's a kiss to me too, I should say instead, you know, when most of my hunts are very public, especially you know the format that we do with slight tell, with near daily video blogs and stuff like that. So the guy can literally get online that night or the next day and see how my hunt went the night before. So, especially when if they know the area hunt, I run into situations like that. Um. But I do think it also scares them from taking the risk of tress fasten, just because there's that that platform of saying, oh, this guy probably has cameras out, Um, he's probably got a platform to uh you know, try to find me if he does get my pictures, so I think that that helps a little bit. Um. But I do definitely deal with um given out a lot of information to the neighbors just simply by filming my hunts and air and the hunts. So it's a I haven't really figured out the best thing, the best way to do about because I enjoy sharing my hunts with people, um, and I know a lot of people love following that that format and being able to you know, stay consistent, get hooked with the story or whatever it may be. So I don't see that changing. Um, even if I'm on a giant here, I'm not gonna hide anything. I never really have, UM. But I just have to understand that at some point, and it's already happened, where the neighbors are gonna know what's going on their their hunting strategy is going to be assisted by what they're seeing from my hunts. So UM, that is what it is. That there's there's more deer around to be hunted, and and good for them if they they killed legally on you know, there's it's and all that good stuff. But UM, yeah, it's a challenge sometimes unfortunately have issues with steel trail cameras or anything. You're just such a helpful guy, man, you know that's selflessly exactly, move move on, move on, end on the Negro. That's right. But don't go mess with Jared's true cameras because UH are here watching you. Yeah. But um, so, you know there's gotta be some type of true camera strategy that you use, like a system to where you're not just picking you know, because you live in a hot of your dnsty area where you just you don't want to put it in a place where you're gonna run your batteries dead taking pictures of dose and stuff. You know, if you're trying to assess the bucks on a property, do you have a specific way to target bucks with a truck camera? Yeah? Really, it's mox scrapes for me. Um. I started in September. I love mox scrapes. I think they're one of the greatest inventory tools there is. And uh every year and I've learned a little bit more about the strategy of creating mox scrapes and and certain little things that have made them more you know, more hot spots, and you know, I love the vertical hanging ropes and and things like that. I keep switching every single year and learning more and more. But as far as inventory of bucks in an area of a of a in a particular area of a farm, I don't know that there's a better way to do it. I don't. I don't like using corn or anything like that, just because I think there's so many grey areas and I think some people take advantage of it. But um, you know, mock scrapes I think are just a killer tool for getting inventory. And with that being said, of course, I've had situations where I missed certain bucks that just avoid the cameras or avoid you know, where I happened at my cameras at least um. But usually I know about them just from being spending so many hours in entry and seeing them somewhere, um, from the stand so on that. But vertical rope that you talked about, I've heard a little bit about that, But can you explain like how you use that system. Yeah, so I try to find a branch that sticks as far out into an opening as possible, and whether that's an opening in the woods or an opening or just on a field edge. But some type of horizontal branch set sticks out as far as possible, and a couple of years ago I started using, um, I don't know, just alright, three quarter maybe an inch stick rope, black rope and tie it down so it hangs down, Uh you know, maybe test high on on me and put a little bit of I've used some preorbitall clan on the end of that rope just to get started, and usually after that, I don't wanted to use any scent um that they're just take care of it that way. But something about a vertical hanging limb or rope that they are just can't resist going to check it out and visit it. But if they're walking anywhere near there, um, I think it far out outperforms. I've seen situations where just where I'm in the tree stand and watched the buck walk past a bunch of scrapes just to go to that one and then to keep going and maybe you know, if he's got some in his mind someplace to be, he's uh not gonna stop in it every scrape, but he's for sure going to hit that one. It's it's pretty crazy. And last year I started, instead of using a rope, I started using like an oak branch or something held its leaves and tying that with a piece of wire so that hangs down straight down, And that's been even more effective. I think having those extra twigs instead of the rope help, But it's still hanging vertical, straight down away from the edge of the woods. Um, so that's been been really affected for me. Cool. Do you think it's more like is it a visual key, like the fact that there's something hanging down or do you think that they just you know, key on it because you have placed the orbital land on it. No, I don't think, because I don't know all you use saying Sometimes I just look at deer, take care of it and away. So it's something visual. Um, maybe it's maybe it's easy easier for them to distribute their scent on something that's just hanging down vertical as opposed to horizontal. I'm not I'm not a hunter percent sure. All I all I know is it's way more effective than your typical worlds in all branch and even your horizontal branch. We all know they you know, they make their own little vertical stand anyway. Yeah. So, um, it's something about that hanging down that just that makes them have to visit it, and um, so that's been some of my strategy on specific stripes the last couple of years. And you know, it's from a little bit bigger picture standpoint of course, access When I'm checking a lot of cameras, I don't want to be leaving sent everywhere. I send most of my cameras up to where I can drive right through right to them on a UTV, so I don't have to get out and at least cent and I just recently last year started using the cut he Link system, which is you can deploy cameras further back into the thick areas and and they send the pictures to a home camera, you know, on the outside it's easier to check. Let's kind of start using any any cell cameras or anything like that yet, but this is the first system that I've used that's close to that. Anyway, you still have to be on the phone to check the camera, but you don't have to go go deep into it into the woods. So that so that's been a pretty cool, cool system too. Yeah, that's pretty neat. So whenever you're you're actually hanging a camera over one of these scrapes, do you ever worry with like the line of side of the deer and the camera and like sit in a certain way so that they aren't looking at the camera, whether whether you know, I know a lot of cameras now as your black flash order, but sometimes it just seems that just the box on the side of the tree can be enough to deter them. Yeah, And it's so interesting to watch because every deer is so different how they respond to that. Some deer could care less and then some deer I find it are super super tin they do when they get to a camera. You know, it's almost like it didn't initiarily stop them from working the scrape, but they worked at just real kind of gingerly and just we're basically staring at the camera all the time. And it would be like that every time they came a visit. They just approach real carefully and um so every every year is is very different how they respond to that. And I use that's one of my favorite things about targeting these big mature deer is uh is learning their individual personality. So if I know of a deer that act like that, I will put my cameras higher in the treaty and angle them down to where it's not um right, at eye level for him, and that seems to work fine. But I also, you know, from a film perspective, and I just love getting quality pictures. Sometimes I secrified Spook in a couple of beers to get that. You know, eye level is beautiful. Turi can picture video just because I love to have those, and we make calendars and stuff like that. So, um, it's it's another one those things that goes either way. But if I'm I'm talking in specific here and I'm just all I'm trying to do is kill him, and I know he's a little bit shy of cameras, I will hang him a little higher in any down. So what's your preferred setting on trail cameras? We we've kind of messed around with, uh, you know, different verss or video or whatever, and we found that video really he is kind of helpful in certain scenarios. Do you use one or the other? So I use I use both. I use the hybrid mode where it takes three pictures and then the twenty second video usually that's what that's my setting on a scrape anyways. Um, But to your point, I think absolutely you can learn so much more from a video how it relates to that dear personality that was just referring to. UM, you can just just learn how aggressive they are. UM. I think in a three photo series there's a lot that you miss in terms of, UM, what was he doing? Was he actually cruising and he stopped at this or you know, Liz, he in a hurry? You which direction did he leave? Um? Or which is direction come into camera view at? So UM I'm always scared to to miss something. So I I do three photos just for ease of rolling through a lot of pictures, but having that video too when I want to dive in and learn more. Yeah, sure, it's it's super handy for uh, for us really, it's like when you're trying to figure out bug betting, you know, and you can see we've done in the past where we have a transitionary that that bucks moved through, and if you hang that camera hide where you can see quite a ways in the background, you can see, you know, we don't really have a particular trail they were coming down, but we know they locked a bed in this general area somewhere, and it really gives you a good idea, you know, of where those deer are truly coming from. And not just the fact that hey, they're coming to this scrape right here, you know. Yeah yeah, and plus the fact of the higher the camera most likely going to get stolen, especially you know you guys, I'm publicly and or whatever. Yeah, yeah for sure. So what time of year you find, um, these scrapes like start to be beneficial to to have cameras over you know, Like what time you are they starting to hit them? Obviously September here in the Middlewest is prime time for scrape. Um. I'll even start a little bit earlier than that, maybe in August. Um, but there's no doubt they visit them all year round. Um, they just don't get as aggressive until really September, when that velvet is close to coming off or coming off, that seems to be a prime time. So you're when you're looking to set up a mark scrape, you said you're looking for a branch that hangs way out into an opening. But is that is that opening in a or that field edge where you're looking is that in particular spot of men? I know a field edge obviously, is you know right before you know a being or a cornfield where they're going to be feeding that night or whatever. But say it's just a being in the woods, are you trying to place that in between where you assume betting would be and in between a agg field? I guess yeah, that and combining it with somewhere where I know that they are gonna walk. Um, so whether that's you know, some type of pinch or a logging road back in the woods or something where I know that there's a strong likelihood that that they are going to be walking past that spot anyways, and the scrape is just going to be that as bonus to to get them to stop and give you a better look. So I try to I try to u get as many things going for me for each camera location, whether it's a scrape, maybe there's a water hole in the background, maybe it's just a really good travel corridor, or maybe there's food in the background. Just try to combine as many factors as possible so that you're getting you know, the most bang for your buck. I guess you could say, um, in terms of knowledge on that spot. Yeah, yeah, So so you're okay, I'm gonna kind of take it back just a touch here. You are almost always locating bucks after you have permission to hunted property. But do you ever pursue a property permission because you saw a big buck on the road somewhere? You know, To be honest, I've never done that. I've heard of guys doing that, and then I think it's just maybe it's just an area and it seems like a lot of the good property is already being hunted, um in summer garden. I just think it would be really hard to you just have to get just get really lucky that that farm happened to not be being hunted and you could easily get permission. So I've never done it that way. I've always done it together way, or just get farm and then find the find the big deer from there. Um. But I've heard of guys having a lot of good luck where they spent a lot of time driving around so they find a good deer and they find a way to get permission on or near that property. So if you were gonna, you know, obtain permission that way, or you just found a map or find found a good property on the map and you went in to ask permission and they grant to you. But then either on that occasion or somewhat later, you figure out that it's one of those places where they'll let anybody hunt. How does that affect your decision on if you're going to like pursue that property or put more work into it um or even decide to hunt at all. I've had similar situations, not worth just anybody and everybody hunted, but life came to find find out that two or three other guys also had permission. And the thing that I did was just trying to communicate with them as much as possible in terms of what their goals are, how often they hunt, how we can help each other, um, that type of stuff. I wouldn't necessarily give up on a property right away just because there's other guys that hunt there. I would try to make it to the situation for all of us and and learn when they hunt and what they're hunting for and that that of stuff, just because I think you're gonna be better off if you're working together then if you're all trying to compete with each other and step on each other's tough So that's what I did at the one time, was just just find out, like, you know, what type of deer you're targeting, how often you get to hunt, you know, is there anything that we can help each other out with UM, and that seemed to be the better situation for that. Yeah, I can definitely see where being friend over foe is always a good plan. But you know, we hunt a lot of public and uh, it's I almost I love the challenge, but I hate the competitiveness that kind of comes with it sometimes, you know so, and it's a similar situation of what you're talking about, you know, just uh, hunting pressure, multiple people hunting the same track, doesn't really matter public or private. But how liberal are you with like specific deer information because I like to to to just trust that people are are inherently good. But sometimes it's not always been the greatest thing. But I could see where, uh, there'd be a world where if you had the right I guess least partner or whatever you'd like to call it, you know, it would be great for you to have you know, hey, I saw this book over here or whatever work together in that way. But it can also really come back to buye you. So how would you do that? Yeah? And I would say, I'm I have the same mindset or standpoint as you. Um, I like I'm probably too trusting at times. UM, But I'm trusting until I until I get burnt. So you know, once once someone you know does something that's not right or a little bit shady or whatever it's uh, it becomes a different ball game for me. But in general, I still think that you're way better off you and if you share a little bit too much information, they take advantage of that, kills that you're here targeting or whatever it may be. You know, if you look at from a long term standpoint, you're still gonna be better off just just being a the least partner rights partner and and just doing the right thing and hopefully at some points overturn the favor and to be more appreciative and your point of publicly, and I think guys are going to just by nature be more competitive on publicly and as opposed to um you guys sharing rights on on a private piece of property. And but it's still about you know, when you're on public you're scouting people just as much as scouting gear. And for me, will by talking to the people that are sharing this private land with I'm learning information about them, which it may be just a little bit easier to learn that information about the guys on private land and it is about public land. But in the long term goal is the same thing. You're trying to learn what other people are doing. Um, you just have to go about a little different way, just because guys on public are going to be more competitive by nature. Right. So once you have obtained permission and hung your marks, great rope and all this and that, and you got a camera out and you've got pictures of a really big mature but and you've located him, um, like further, how do you narrow his tendencies down? And what what's the next step there? So if it's a if it's a new property that I haven't then on before, Um, it really becomes a game of studying the train and learn the train as much as possible, because that's that's what's gonna dictate how you kill him. Learn Learn why he goes to that camera, how he gets to that camera, Where is he going to feed after that? UM? Learn every single piece that you can. UM. So if I, if I don't know anything about the train, I didn't have an off season to to scout and learn, it becomes looking at Tuckle Mass and then you know, for in the season, so I'll spend time in the tree, and I do a decent amount of quote unquote observation sits that aren't necessarily, you know, completely out of the game, but they're not. They're not high pressure sets either, and you're not gonna you're not gonna mess something up too bad. Um, So for me, it's the fault. It's a learning game of putting every single piece of knowledge that you have and and building that puzzle. Like I'll revert back to last year learning this new farm. I had a late start because we didn't clothes on this farm until November, and uh so obviously we were in season, and all my knowledge was coming from hunt in the tree stand or trail camp pictures. So it was just get pictures of his deer. No one, that's the dear. I want to target guests on where he may be betting and what his routine is and you and you said staying And I don't know how many times I didn't hang a single permanent set on the farm last year. Um, every single hunt was a hanging hunt and a hanging stand and take it down that night and the next night that moved hit years closer to where I thought you probably was, or if I saw him moved years close, you know, just kept doing that over and over and over again, and just putting every single puzzle piece together. Um, looking at the trail cameras, especially directions and times and all that type of stuff. Um, that's that's really how I do it. I don't know if you know, it's not much of an exact science, but just spend so much time digging into all the information that you're given. That's kind of what we did or do with trail cameras. A lot is um where a lot of places we hunt don't have much agriculture, so you're kind of relying on some natural brows maybe, but mostly like if you're looking for a feeding area, you're looking for oaks that are preferential at that particular time of year, and and so like there's really just not not great. Like the deer just seemed to kind of wonder through the woods and I'm sure they have direction, and I just don't quite notice it. And I can't quite pull that information out of the trail camera pictures that you're talking about, you know, But um, it just seems like when we get a buck a couple of times on a trail camera, it's time to move the camera back, like you said, fifty yards. You know you're talking about moving your stand. It's kind of what we've done with the cameras, and I mean, I feel like that's worked well for finding, especially for finding more daytime activity and stuff. But we were still, you know, we still struggle to put the pieces of puzzle together. I mean, what kind of what kind of you sound like you really do have a good idea of the detail, like small details that you can pull out of a truck camera picture. Can you kind of expand upon that a little bit and talk about how you're understanding those better this time of year? Yeah, even there's so much small if we won't go like this time of year. So, like I mentioned, last year was my first time on the farm, but recently I've been going through in images and I tag all the year, going to name on the computer in the files, and that way I can search the deer's name every single image comes up. And then I think there's probably erroll cam softwares and stuff out there that do this, but in my mind, they just don't know the property is as good as I do. So I just do it on my own, and I it's amazing It's kind of an eye opening experience when you when you pull up every single picture you've had of that buck and they folder and start rolling through it. It's almost like an aha moment, like, man, that's crazy. I wish I would have been thinking about this last fall. I could have killed him right here. It's it's hard to explain, but it's it's very it's very eye opening. I guess it's just you get so much information that you don't realize from tariff camas. Guys, this is what I was alluding to earlier. It's just there's so much more you can learn besides just okay he was there at this time. UM, just you know why he was there and how many nights in a row did he go? There was a certain weather condition that brought him there. Um, it's just under utilized tool. I think, you know what, everyone uses trail cameras, but to that extent to where, um, how powerful they actually are. I think I don't use them enough. UM. So for me, that's what I've been looking at this year, going into you know, the second year in the farm, our first full year on the farm. I learned so much that I wasn't thinking about during the season that now I can take this offseason knowledge or knowledge that I learned by going through the pictures in the off season and apply it to this coming fall. Does their rut because I know you said you closed at the beginning of November? Does the right kind of mess up some of your assumptions about like betting and feeding patterns when you've got dear cruising throughout the day, it guys. Um, But when I look at a farm and learn a farm and try to learn the dear moment, I'm I'm looking at all that dear, not just the buck. So you can still learn overall movement patterns, movement directions, like you're talking about what this they're going moving towards the field every evening, or moving towards an oak flat in the evening. Um, you know, you can take that knowledge of what all the doose are doing and apply it to a buck early in the season. Um. So just you know, not overlooking the little pieces of information like that. Don't always just think about what the what the bucks are doing on the rod that might not be in your best option. But this overall deer movement, and then you can target specific animals from there. Yes, say a giant buck that you hadn't seen all season on camera shows up, you know, say November three. How much stock do you put into that yearly pattern? Do you? Uh? Do you tend to want to be in that particular location the next year? I remember three? Do you think it kind of changes your year? I think I haven't seen it down to the date like that, But for sure, a general core area seems the whole true year after year. Um, and that corrier changes size wise, I gets smaller and bigger, but that that general area of it seems to stay consistent. The only time I've really seen it change as if, um, you know, maybe a dominant buck gets killed or something like that and another buck takes his place and shifts his core area a little bit. But in general, if you're targeting mature buck from when he's mature and you're you know, maybe you shoul start targeting when he's five, it's not gonna change a whole lot from five to six to seven or you know, maybe four to five to six. Um. Just from my experience anyways, it seems just cold true every year that they come back to the same area right around the same same date or date range. Maybe not the same day, but date range seems the whole pretty consistent. Yeah. Sure, So you'd you know, probably take that and then look at your uh weather activity for the you know, the like three day bracket, five day bracket there around that time period, and you know, hunt that on the on the favorable wind or the fronts or whatever, and it would uh probably, uh, we have a scenario like this that we're gonna try this year. I guess that is why I'm asking you some of these questions on that. But I think that's probably the best you know, take that and then all the other attributing factors and you know, align yourself up for the best hunt you can. Yeah. I would definitely take advantage of that, because you know, there's a reason they moved there at that time. UM. And for me, that one one farm in particular that I've come in for last three or four years, UM, I don't get any pictures of there until basically October good Bucks, I should say, until October UM, and then they slowly trickle in from October one to November one, and by November they're all there. Um. But they all show up almost within the same same week time frame every single year. Um, you know, if one one buck shows up in early October every year, he does the same thing here after yearter year. If it's the last week of October for a different buck and it's the same thing year after ye after year. Um, so that's that's been really cool to see for me. And from that standpoint, I would definitely say, yeah, take advantage of that, because I do think there's a reason that they're showing up at that time. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's take show cameras out of the equation. You have just gained access to a property and you're gonna go in, and you really want to know if there is a big giant buck on the place, you know, and that's what you're looking for. Um, what other do you sign? Do you key? And most for determining if there really are or if there really is a giant deer on a place. It's a good question because I'm not a huge sign guy. Big rubs are usually a decent indicator, But I would say that tend to lean more towards it because I already know him in a good general area. I'm in south central Iowa, so there's the potential for big deer on anywhere that has good cover. So I look for that good cover. I look for the thick, nasty stuff. Um you know that that humans don't go into that. It's just just a very secluded area that's just thick and nasty and can hold a big mature buck because there's a decent chance in this country that there's going to be a mature dear in that area. So that's probably what I look for more than scrapes and rubs and things like that, things things of that nature. I just look for the cover that that it requires to hold a big deer. Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't really think about it in that aspect. But if you do live in, you know, a great hunting area, then you're you can kind of assume that the big deer are going to go to the big deer habitat and that's right kind of So is it more like when a deer gets to that size and that age, is it more about cover than it is about food? I think so. I think. Uh, I've seen some some deer travel quite a ways to to eat. They just get there late at night. I think the security is a is a bigger factor. I think the security is looking come to that age. Um. So, yeah, I would say that's that's number one over over the food. They'll get to the food even it maybe mills a night by the time they get there, but they've got to have a place to live during the day. How far have you seen a deer travel like in that scenario, in that scenario to um like to to feed in the evening? You mean? Yeah, so I say that the great cover is is egg distance away, and that's where the big buck wants to live. But the you know, the good food or the beans is you know, so far away. You know, how far do you think I'm a true buck is willing to go? Uh? I guess have both optimal you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I don't think it's out of ordinary for a deer to go well over a mile or maybe even a little bit further than that in the evening to to eat and then go back to the bed. You know, in farm country where there's a lot of egg fields and stuff, they don't there's not many situations where they have to go that far. But I have seen it where you know, maybe at the at the farm that's a bigger farm that doesn't have any food done it, or uh, you know, just maybe it's later in the year where the food sources are are diminishing and they're still going back to that good cover to bed even though the aventual good food is further away, and that deer travel I think more than what most people realize the situation, This isn't the same situation every deer going and and seed in an evening. But we had a buddy that he and I had pictures of a deer that traveled over. If you went from where I was getting pictures to him getting pictures in a straight line, it was eight point one mile and you had done this for three years in a row, multiple times each year. I mean, it was amazing. And most people wouldn't believe that we had show can pictures and video and all that type of stuff. And you know that that's the tough stuff. That fascinates me is those stories and why did why would a deer doree that every single year? Um, there's plenty of food in between, there's plenty of covering between there, there's something else that made him do it multiple times each useing in year after year after year. So that those are that's pretty cool too. But in an evening. I don't think it's it's out a question for a dear to go well over a mile to to feed at night and come back. Yeah, that's that's crazy, man. It's that's definitely what you would call a roamer. You know. It's cool how they have all these different personalities and we give them, you know, kind of human attributes in it. But it kind of makes sense, you know. They're they're just they're just high test austroone guys, you know. And some of them are going to stay in the same place every night and some some of them are gonna you know, go around visit different towns or whatever. We're looking for some fun. So it's exactly they're they're they're cool animals. Uh. And you know, well, ago you talked about, um, you know, the buddy that you're going back and forth with their whatever with the deer, and I wanted to kind of maybe pick your brain about, you know how hunting with a partner or having someone that you can find like all your information with and you can bounce things off of each other, Um, how that can really benefit you when it comes to trying to target big mature deer. Yeah. And I think. Uh, I think there's a lot that you can learn because it's it's two guys putting their minds together on something as opposed to just thinking. You come up with things that you wouldn't think about on your own. Um. But also it's you know, it's twice if you're hunting separately, it's it's twice the amount of of observation that their knowledge that you get as opposed to only going off of your hunts or your cameras. Um, So there's there's a lot of benefits there. I think that they guest thing is just if you are going to have that partner and kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but you've got to be very like minded. Um, you have to have the same type of goals because that's unfortunately I've seen I haven't been in it, but I've seen other guys have a lot of friendships ruined. You know, big deer make guys do some some crazy things. And um, you are going to have a partner you're gonna share ground with, or um share information with for that matter, it's gotta be someone you trust, gotta be someone that that thinks the same way you're doing as the same hunting and management goals with you. Um and if you find that there's uh, there's a big advantage to be to have um in terms of getting that information and bouncing that das up with each other. Yeah, for sure, That's what Tyler and I have found because uh, Tyler is very good at like analyzing and asking questions about things and like why did this happen? Why did that happen? And I'm so much more of a like inventory taker, like I walk through the woods, observe everything and the kind of have a photographic mind and just take it in. But I don't always do the greatest job of of asking why and you know why or trying to figure out a certain scenario. I'm almost just too cut and dry sometimes, like I just assumed this is what happened, you know, and just go with it. And uh So, I don't know if you've ever encountered that situation or if I do you you and Mike still hunt together? Yeah, yeah we do. It's gonna get a little bit tougher with me moving, but um, yeah we do. And we we them and I bought that farm must fall together, so we own that farm, um mutually. So and it's it's. Uh. Even when I'm not hunting with Mike or someone that's not even familiar with the product, I still ask questions. I'll say, you know, I'm thinking about hunt year tonight because of this and this and this. What do you think where this is our other option? This would be why we get on here instead of just you know, everyone has their own experiences and and things that they've learned over the years being in the stand, and it always helps to be able to bounce ideas off of it's other even if you don't take those ideas that it's it's, you know, nothing, but good to be able to take that in and take other opinions. Yeah, I mean sometimes you kind of just talk yourself throat more than anything, you know, and you're like, yeah, it was kind of dumb that I haven't wanted to do that other idea. Yeah, yeah, I understand man for sure. So so, okay, so you've obtained permission on the property, you put out cameras, you discovered a shooter, you pattered him, Uh somewhat, you feel pretty good about it. The next step is hunting him with a bow in hand. So are you just looking for the correct wind at that point where your camera is set up, or are there other factors you'd like to see before you hit the woods, or you know, how does that process look at that point. Um, of course weather always plays a big part in in our deer humming world, and we all understand how much of an impact weather has. But yeah, getting correct wind and then also applying just individual things based on that deer's personality because sometimes the wind you had to play around with that a little bit in terms of whether it's wind in your advantage or when in his advantage. I had a buck a few years ago that I was hunting hard, and um it was I knew pretty much where he was betting, but I could not figure out where he was going in the evenings. I had cameras, it seemed like, in all directions of his betting area, and I'd get pictures of him, but seemed very, very random until I started figuring out that routinely he would on a on a north wind, he'd go north. On south wind heed to go south and didn't line up with the typical feeding areas. It seemed like every other dear, whether it was north, north south wind, they went north to feed because that's where the closest food was. Um. Both, but I fill is a south wind, he would go south and go find a different foods or so. Once I finally figured that out, I was able to get on him. Didn't actually kill him, but it got close and it was but I had to hunt um through the north of him. With the north wind. I just had to move to the east a little bit so that my north land wasn't blown directly to where he's at it. Um, he was going to come out on the side of me, basically, UM and I it's exactly what happened. But he came out just outside of boat range and never worked the way up once he was upland with me. But a little, a little stuff like that. Again, it all goes back to all these bucks are different. They have their own personalities, they have their own reasons why they do things, and uh, you just got to apply those little things through that and um, you can always learn that much about it here, but it's a lot of fun what you do and get that actual information to apply. So are you seeing that a lot of these this you just kind of spurred a question in my mind, But are you seeing that a lot of these mature or big bucks are using the wind to their advantage almost all the time. And so that so like you almost should never hunt an area when the wind is just like perfect for you. Um No, I think they do use the wind to their advantage as much as possible. But I don't think it's it's possible to do it all the time. I don't. I think if the wind is not in their advantage, they're just not gonna move. I think they're still gonna make mistakes here and there. Um, And those those are the situations where I like to hunt where it's almost impossible for a deer to get down the wind. Maybe it's right up against the river bank or uh, you know a steep ridge or something like that, or the deer is going to have that little bit of travel time or whatever it is where the wind is just perfect for you, but um being not so perfect for him. But he's still gonna move. He's not just gonna sit there and not move until the wind is perfectly right. Well, so I think it's just it's just learning, learning what the what terrain you're actually deal with in those situations. All right, do you tend to hunt closer to a deer's betting area, like as close as you can whenever you understand where that is, or you just like a good ambush spot in general, and hoping these shows up by that time, you know, before shooting light is over. Yeah, I like to be as close with betting as possible, just from a daylight movement standpoint. Obviously, we all know that these big mature bucks are very close to moving at dark and you gotta catch them on their feet, obviously, so the closer you can push in, the better. I'm a big believer and taking with um, whether that being pushing a little bit too far, And every now and then I think we put too much emphasis on um. You know, if we spook a big gear, he's gone forever, he's going to move to the next county. I don't think any of us nearly true love. I've I'm a deer where I spooped them going in that night and adjusted my sustained location or went to a different stand and still encountered him not that far away. So I just think that, um, the risk is worth the reward and most standpoint, and if you messed up, you know you'll get another opportunity if you're smart about it. Yeah, that's good advice for me because, um, we we've been living in this world where we have a particular buck on a piece of public that we've been following for like the last eighteen months or so, and he lives, in my opinion, almost exclusively on a few hundred acres and we have currently we have cameras out and he's identifiable without horns on. I feel like, but he's you know, at this point, he's probably got some development, um, and he's by far the biggest buck on the property, so should be should be able to tell if it's him at this point. But like, we don't know where he beds. We have an idea where he feeds now and then um, and he's one of those bucks that, like his hawks are just super dark and in all fall, you know, like he's he's cruising a lot um. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the thing is. We're having trouble. We've we've got daylight pictures of him in certain areas and we've hunted there and it's you know, I mean it may happen only every ten days. Where's daylight picture there? And it just seems like he's he's such a cruiser and you know, a lover boy or whatever that he's just all over the property and hard to pattern. Is that, uh, you know, and your experience is that something. Is there a tip that you could give me, or is this just like, hey, you probably should just not worry too much with this deer. Um. Again, it goes back to a lot of deer being different. I think there are deer that have that personality you just described that they're they're travelers, um, and they walk all night long, all day long to to find the next available though. Um. She said that if a few hundred acres that you think he's living on is a public piece of property, that bigger? Is it a lot bigger than that? Yeah, it's I mean it's pretty much the public is. I think he lives within it, but it's it's not a whole lot bigger than that. Okay, Okay, so you think there's probably decent chance that he lives there, but he travels off of it quite a bit. I don't know that he does a lot of traveling off of the public really, and I think he's a killable deer. He's just you know, he's kind of random with this very random like we'll have We'll have pictures a lot of a lot of the pictures we had like late season and postseason this year of him. He would be we had I think four cameras out on this proper kind of you know, in the corners, so to speak of the camera of the property, and he would show up in this area for like three or four days, and you'd see him like twice there in like three days, and then you and then we pulled another camera and he's up there two days later or the next day for like three or four days, and then in a different camera for like three or four days, and it's like it kind of finds an area and chills in it for a while, and then he goes, you know, several hundred yards and does the same thing or whatever. Yeah, so there's obviously a lot of information that I don't have. I think in a situation like that, I had this year plus worth of knowledge on him. Even if it seems random in that one year, I would still apply it to this season, and I would probably check my cameras and maybe more often than normal to try to take advantage of that pattern. So as soon as you know I see something lining up with what are you doing this year that that lines up with what he did last year. I would move in on it right away and target exactly. It's basically going on the expectation that he's going to do the same things last year. Maybe not the same thing as the last week, but the same thing is what you did the previous year. Um I think that's where we're the starting point that out have and like I get maybe a little bit more aggressive on checking your cameras so that you can uh take advantage even if it's a two day pattern and he only does it for two days, make sure you're there in the second day once you got that that first day of knowledge, right, Yeah. I mean, and the aggressive thing is something that we weren't super We weren't super aggressive last year. We were definitely like we hunted a spot that was kind of middle of the property, but it was it was I mean, I feel a little bit different about it, but at the time it seemed almost full proof, like we were, you know, not going to get smelled going you know, and we're gonna get seen or smelled going in. We were gonna get smelled our in there if we had the correct win. Um. So I just like it felt pretty good, but there was definitely like we were would sit there and stay would be like, man, I just feel like if we were over there like a hundred and fifty yards, it would be a different story, you know. And so yeah, you don't always want to be, you know, super aggressive like that, but I think in that situation I would. And again, if you're hunting a mature deer, you think about, Okay, you've been living on this property for how many years? Now? There's a reason he's still on this property. He must feel some sort of security. So you bump him one time, he's not gonna completely move out of the area. You might mess it up for a short period of time, But um, I think some guys miss a lot of opportunities because they're just scared of pumping a gear one time. So I would. I wouldn't be afraid to get a little bit more aggressive in a situation like that. So speaking a bit more aggressive, how do you feel about like blind calling? And I mean that situation or in any situation, I guess I I do a little bit of it, um, But only the biggest caveat I have there is to make sure it's in the spot that deer aren't gonna bust you down wind, um, you know, because that's that's always what that big mature buck's gonna do, is he's gonna come to that sound. You know, even if you can't see him, you're bland calling that he comes in. He's gonna come come in down wind. He's gonna proach down wind. So if I'm in the right situation where you can't get down wind, I don't see a problem with with doing it. Um. You know. The only problem I would see is if it's in the public situation it's highly pressured and everyone else is doing it. You know, that would be the one one downfall. But if you're on public where there's not a ton of pressure, um, I wouldn't be afraid of doing it. M Yeah, I think that's good advice for us too, because uh okay, so first fall. To be honest, Tyler has told me that he's not going to focus on this buck too much next year. He's not gonna obsess about him. But he just spent about five or ten minutes talking to you about this deers. So let's see how that goes. You know, we all kind of have these theories like oh no, I'm not gonna let that deer get to me. And then here comes the season and it's like, man, I want to go kill that deer. But uh, yeah, I think that's a good advice, man. And if you um, you know, it's it's just like if you play conservative your whole life on anything, you know, you you might, uh you might get to have a little bit of success here and there, but man, it takes takes taking some risks to uh, to really make some leaps and bounds, you know, and that and if we're gonna hold true to the whole you know, not we're not gonna focus on this deer too much, then what's it gonna hurt to go on there and just try to get him, you know, first time in you know, you know, and if you blow him out, so what you know, you weren't focused on him supposedly exactly, you got other places. No, I could not I could not agree more. And if you do bump him, then you just gained a little bit more knowledge of Okay, he's probably not then be in this spot in the next couple of days. So where else where did I force them to? That can go on? It? That is a good point to build your own strategy based on the mistakes. So, um, you know, get aggressive. I think that's maybe something that I do a little bit different. And I think some guys that are play more successful than I am are are very aggressive. So definitely is and it's fun getting aggressive and since trying new things too, Yeah for sure. So, um, you've gone through you found, you know, a piece of property to hunt, You've located a big buck, and you've done that four or five different times. Um, you know, and I can see this being a scenario where where where you live, you have you know, you're blessed to have great opportunities at multiple big bucks. But um, without you know, getting out the buyos and really breaking down you know, this is a one net versus a one sixty two net. How do you decide which buck is the is your target buck? Or which deer that you're going to to say? This is the deer I want off of this property as opposed to this other one. I would say, Usually I don't have to question it when it when it's the right dear. Um, Usually it's just you know, it's it's an internal feeling of you know, like yes, I want to kill that deer. That's a deer I want to target. There's usually not many times where I'm asking questions like is he big enough? Or is he I mean, I'm always asking if he's old enough, because I've seen some deer makes some incredible jumps, um just by having one extra year under their belt. Um. So age is something that we're always very careful with. But um, in terms of a deer that's obviously mature, it's usually a no brainer for me. And not not from the standpoint of it needs to be a giant, but it just needs to, you know, get me going. I just need to get excited about it and not even think about if I'm questioning it is probably a dear, I'm not going to shoot, right. Yeah, we we've casey and I've kind of discussed that a little bit, you know, and uh, if you're if you have a question, you know, you're probably better off just passing the deer and like more of a minute to minute situation, you know, but it does make sense. So are you guys starting to see any development in your bucksyet or do you have any targets already? Um? No, I mean I probably a little bit further behind and running cameras that I normally am just with moving and all that type of stuff. But um, I have got a couple of solid bucks. Nothing I recognize so far. But all my targets are based on the theory that I had last year that we found chets too, or that we think made it. That's mostly what my targets are based on. I haven't initially found anything yet this year that come that confirms they're back in alive, And it will be interesting on this new form because I'm ever experienced it in the summer leading into you know, October one opener. I haven't experienced that, yes, so I don't know. Maybe these gear don't move until November. Maybe they're there all year round. I'm really anxious to see how all that plays out because most of the farms, like I was saying earlier, that fund of the past because of the way the cover is and there's a lot of thermal cover pine tree thermal cover that they just don't move into it very early. It's usually once all the other all the other bagg fields get picked and the other covers start disappearing, the leaves they are coming off, that's when they move on to these other farms. So I'm anxious to see what this new farm is like. Yeah. So is I mean, is the new farm like your next challenge? You talked about loving the challenge earlier, Like, do you have any any goals for this next season that you're really excited about? Yeah. The biggest thing I think is just applying uh two months of hunting knowledge to it and just continue even to learn everything I can about this piece. It's a it's a piece that I hope to own for a long long time. UM. And I've never had the situation like I mentioned here that I've had some terms of what I've been able to help me manage, but I've never had something to call my own and to be able to do exactly what I want. UM. I've always shared properties with other hunters and grant I'm sharing this one with Mike. UM. But I've never had to worry about you know. Uh, Mike and I are based only on the same page with with whats to kill them, which ones to let go? Um? And when I let it let a deer go, I can almost unless the neighbors killed, I can almost guarantee that you know, he'll be around the next year to hunt. So I'm really excited to experience that situation as opposed to letting deer go and not really know And if one of the other hunters on the farm is gonna gonna kill him, I'm excited about that. And uh, I think it'll I think it will remain a challenge the farm remain a challenge for a long time. I think it's always going to be different. Even if you learn the terrain really and learn the overall deer movement, there's still those individual personalities of bucks. It's going to change every single year based on which to you're targeting. So I'm I'm never afraid of that challenge running out just because the target individual deer, not just any mature dear. So kind of last question, I guess for me, outside of shooting deer, big bucks or kind of things that you generally tend to love deer hunting for, what is your favorite part about deer hunting experience that you've had. Uh. I think it's hard to put into words. I think it's a great question. Um, it's kind of like explaining to a non hunter why we hunt. I think it's it's very it's just very hard to explain. It's just it's something that I'm so passionate about. And I don't even know why I'm so passionate about, um, but it's you know, it's kind of go through your life and and you see people that don't have really hobbies with the real qussion about or anything. And I couldn't imagine my life was out this this hunting thing that I'm so passion passion that consumes my thoughts every single day. So I don't know why what it is that I like so much about it. Um, there's a lot of things that challenged it. Just just being out there away from other things that times seems to slow down a little bit. Um. I'm not sure I talk to put into words, but there there's just just a lot of things that that I think we're all on the same boat when it comes to that, but there's a lot of things that just make it, you know, our our favorite thing to do and we think about all year long. Well, Jared, I can't thank you enough for your time. I know you do a lot for Midwest ye tell and you stay really busy. Um. What's the best way to connect with you guys for those that are interested. Yeah, So we have a videos on a lot of different platforms, where the Sail dot com of course, um YouTube and real que and Apple, Namazon all that touch stuff, but metapl tail dot com is as barbably the main spot. We have some some new things coming this year that we're really excited about. Um and of course all the regular consistent content will be firing up the daily video blog here in a little over a month, I guess, and the weekly episodes and all that to stuff. We're taking some steps this year to increase their content and that's still a better job of giving the years of what they want in terms of regular content helping people become better gear hunters. So um, yeah, Tom's best place to find all that. Yeah, it's it's great man. I was actually really sad when you guys put out the most recent video where Bill was like, yeah, we're gonna take like a month and a half off or whatever he said. I was like, dang it, I've been looking forward to this every single week. You know whatever, I really enjoy watching it will link to all that below and uh, be safe traveling, man, and I wish the best for you this year. Man. I hope you have a good good year and get on some good deer. Yeah, awesome, I appreciate the opportunity. I'm I'm excited to follow your guys store too. That's always fun to That's that's the thing that I think will never get old, and that's what we do and the stories and having this deer in publicly and you guys just couldn't figure out last year. I'm I'm excited to see what you apply this year and what happened. So good luck to you guys as well. And again, thank you for the opportunity. Yeah, dude, thanks man, and we'll be talking to soon. Awesome, Okay, thanks Jared, nice guy. Man. I enjoyed talking to Jared for sure. Man. And what's crazy is uh, I don't think he looks old, but I always thought he was older than us because he's accomplished so much in the deer hunting world. Man. I know, I kind of had the same feeling, like it's it's kind of weird, you know, he's not an old looking guy by any means, but just he's just been around and shooting big bucks for a long time. What a good guy to talk to, you, man, A guy you to learn a lot from. Yeah, yeah, for sure, man, Um I guess, you know. Make sure and check out the links um that we have. There are some from Midwest whitetail and Jared shooting some monster bucks. Um. Also, we have a link to our most recent film, or not really a film, just a video that that is from my trip. I talked about it in the beginning of the episode, but uh yeah, it's a cool little fly fish and video where you get to see me catch fish that are four inches all the way up to like sixteen inches, you know, and round as of football, so uh check that out. Footballs aren't very around well shaped like a football round to the basketball. Uh So yeah, anyway, check that out, check out all the links or whatever, and then we're gonna be pretty busy, So be looking through our story here this weekend because we are going to be probably about the time you're listening to this. We will be at the q d M A national convention. Is the thirtieth anniversary, and we're excited because it's in New Orleans and it's so good and and uh it's so close. It's like our backyard, man, you know, like I've always said, like East Texas is like a perfect It's like the place where like you're you. You know, Texas people think of like cowboys and like western dusty cattle drives and stuff, you know, and like, really, East Texas isn't really like that. But we're also not Cajun. We're like right in the middle of like cattle country and crawfish countries, right man. And uh, it's it's kind of like either way we go, we're kind of we feel at home, you know. So I'm gonna feel at home and I'm gonna eat like I'm at home. Man, cannot wait. But anyway, Yeah, we'll see you on the side of the q m A, hopefully with some good interviews and great information about deer and deer hunting. And remember, this is your element, isn't it

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