00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler Jones and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening on All Woods People. We're sitting here again on the shores of the Lake Fork in the beautiful lake fark Lige. It's uh, you know, sometimes it kind of seems like it's weird to say beautiful because sometimes I don't really just like this place is beautiful. But then sometimes I do. But I've been here so long that it's just like kind of like you kind of take it for granted sometimes, but I'm rambling. My co host, Casey Smith is sitting here. What's happening duty I had that same thought today while we're outside, because I looked across the lake and saw something that I thought was interesting and cool on the opposite shore, and I almost said something. And I was like, Tyler has looked at that for more years than I could even imagine, and it has probably com pondered that thing so many times. He does not care to talk about it, so I didn't even say it. I probably would care. I like, uh, I like nostalgia and heritage and tradition. It really wasn't any of those. It was probably just uh, I don't really it was very bland think to talk about it. It's just like what it was. But so when you were talking to my wife earlier about books, I was sitting there looking up. I was looking up at the old brown black ram up there. A couple of things came to mind. One I'm not sure how talking with Dad into full shoulder Mountain that thing. The second is a little bit bigger and a little bit harder to unpack. But um, basically, what I'm talking about here is some kind of mixed breed ram that probably seventeen years ago or so, my dad and I and his buddy and my buddy who was his son, all went on a trip together. And there was a place that was clearing a high fence place. It was clearing um, clearing everything off the ranch, and they were selling hunts and they had the They had the ram hunts for fifty bucks, and so I went and shot that one, and he kind of has a split, you see, like the what looks almost like a lateral line on a fish on this one on this side right here, it's like a right through the middle. There's a streak. It's kind of like a lateral line on the on the side facing us. So on the other side, it's got the same thing, but it like kind of splits down towards the tip or whatever. And I was like, man, it's like a three horn ram, you know. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Um. And then there's a skull a mount of another like more corskin looking ram over there that we did a hunt, you know there two or whatever. And so as like a young kid, this is like I mean maybe twenty years ago on that one. I mean, as a young kid, I'm like, I think that's so cool. I thought the sheep were like the coolest thing in the world. I think I've talked to you about this before. But I used to like search those because, like you know, here in Texas where the high offense kings, and I used to search those dang websites, like looking for access to black bug hunts, Like, man, if I could just save up twelve bucks, I could kill black buck on this place. You know. It's like, how cool is that? You know? And now I look at it and it's a sometimes disgusting, and but there's other you know, there's just so many aspects like to it. Um. You know, the c w D thing with the white tails is like a big factor. I don't know like how that all plays together when you talk about access fellow black bugs, sheep, you know, move flawns or whatever, and so like, I mean, if they're if they're if there's those animals don't really like if they don't carry the c w D. I mean, are there any issues with having like a young kid going there and have a cool hunt? You know, I don't know, but and this is something that like I haven't had enough time to think about and like bring it all too, but I'm kind of like looking to you for maybe some thoughts here my anecdotal thoughts on that. Yeah, I mean, um, you know I did the same thing as far as like thinking that the exotics were super cool, and I still think exacts are cool, but um, they have their place. And I just feel like when you go and give somebody like this this falsity, this facade of uh like going to super fancy hunting lodge and like you go through the big gate that you know, they all have this big gate, like this iron thing at the top and it shows like this giant whitetail it's cut out of metal, you know, and like you go through all this and you take and like take you out there and let him shoot something. Yeah, there's certain fun aspects of it. You know, it's not really a wild animal, but like it's fun to shoot things and it's it's cool to hang out with people and your experience. It's a lot of fun when you go to those places. You know, But it isn't really what you want to teach somebody that's young that that's what hunting is all about. But for me and this and then you've got a point there. But for me, like I had done the deer hunting thing for a few years before we ever went on one of those, I mean, I knew what it was like. We hunted a place that I was like shot up, you know, I mean, you talk to me, it was hard hunting, like I was. I saw a few doughs and that I were out of range and shot my first six point on you know, our first trip to South Texas. You know that it was not a high fence place. It was before everything around it was high fence too much, and uh it was tough hunt. I shot a little tiny, like year old six point and I was it was it was the greatest, uh, you know, harvest of my life. Like I was more pumped and jacked up about that than any I've ever been. And so, I mean I knew, like I knew what the the hunting experience was, like I mean some what I'm not saying, And like I went out there and like map scouted and found my spot on public land and went cheaper than anybody. You know. It was like a teen year old like are you really gonna do that? Right? I mean, I knew what but I knew what the free range experience was, you know, so like for me, um, you know, I understood there was something different about it, but I still thought it was awesome. Like I still thought like rams, like I always called them rams. You still have infatuation with ramps, you're just like the wild ones? Yeah, I do. And I don't know what that is what it is, But it's been since, I mean since I was started hunting pretty much I've thought and you know, now it's like wild cheap. It's it's big horns and doll sheep and stone sheep and that kind of thing. But um, it's just kind of it's weird to think about, like, you know something that and listeners can probably tell that I'm pretty bitter against the Huppi and stuff like. It's just and it's because I worked a little bit in that industry. So and I think that one of the things that like I would really not want my kids around would be the mentality and just some of the personalities that you run up on at those tophens places. And I'm not saying that all people that do that are bad or whatever, but I just know from working in that industry there are some people who just are just grotesque rough very. Uh, I don't just worldly. Worldly, yeah, worldly is all right way to put it, you know, just like ideas. And I can remember being as a kid like the guy who told the dirty dirty jokes was cool, he was funny. But as an adult, I'm like, man, I don't want my kids around that. I literally thought about that today because you know, I I got kids, and I was like, man, like, I just we're out there actually when we were shooting the NERF gun on with Jet and I was like, man, like, this little kid is just like so innocent, and like he's telling Casey a story and I'm like, this is like just a little kid's story. Like there's so much innocence to it, you know, And uh, I was like, yeah, one day he's gonna grow up and do some stupid stuff like I did, you know, and and say words that he shouldn't really say, you know, and and uh, and like I don't want that to happen, you know, because when you, like, for real, like when you're sixteen years old, you think it's cool to just throw words all over the place, and and you know the guy that does that and not like not that a well placed word, You can't be funny in a joke or something like that, I guess sometimes. But it really depends on like the heart of the not the heart, but like the intention of the person or the word, you know, I guess in my opinion. And so anyway, like I was just sitting there thinking, man, I just don't want him to grow up, because he's gonna, I know, like for a while there, he's gonna think the same thing you and I thought, you know or whatever, and then you and then all of a sudden, you either have kids or you get you know, into your late twenties or whatever, and you start to realize, like, and these guys that are still doing this at like forty five years old, just something, you know, sometimes that's just not cool, you know. I was thinking about this the other day. Um, I don't know why, but I was, Uh, I had come across, uh, some kind of result on Google about Lee and Tiffany. Uh, and they're like there was some kind of mental issue there or whatever, you know, and and this is totally like, I'm not saying that this has any validity at all. Yes, and and it was a result, and so of course it's a four OWM thing, you know, And so I go and I just I'm like, I want to see what this is because I want Lee and Tiffany to be great people. I don't know them at all, you know, I love them, you know, they're there. They seem cool, you know. And and I like people that are good representations and good Uh. You know. I love Tim Tebow. I mean, he's he's so far the man has been like a pretty good inspiration and leader for our generation, you know. And so anyway, I'm looking at the this. I go in and click on it, and I'm trying to see what these people are saying and see if there's any validity of this at all. And it were There wasn't, but there was some guys on there, and I wanted to be like, how old are you? I just wanted to I wanted to like create an account in that form. They'd be like, sir, how old are you? Are you sixteen? Or are you like forty two? I need to know because the things that you're saying about Tiffany right now are not cool. That's another man's wife, you know, and it just, man, it grosses me out. And we're like totally getting on a big different uh tangent here, you know. But anyway, um, I guess back to back to this whole thing. The reason I started thinking about this was because I was looking after that sheep or that ram or whatever you call it, and I was like, you know, my dad is thinking about selling this place soon and I'm working on a new house, Like where's it gonna go? Like what do I do with it? What I do with it? Should I? Like? Do I do I take it? Do I sell it to like some other hunting or fishing lines, or do I just du Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. You think at one point in time, I was I also have to know that this big eight point out here is looking directly at me, like he is a hardcore like this is the spot you said when you want that to look at you. I mean, it's kind of weird, but you're definitely gonna shoot low on that. But I mean it's like you're saying, you know, there was a point in time when like your childhood innocence and not really grasping the whole thing, like how high fences are really that bad? You're proud of that animal, And I think it's okay too to kind of have that nostalgic piece around to also remind you of like, hey, I've been fooled once, so I don't need to be fooled again kind of, you know what I mean. And and but it's still cool, like it's a cool story to say that, Like you shot at Ram and y'all got it mounted, and it's not not even like what you would call an impressive animal, but he's just cool, you know. It's not. The one on the left is a skull mountain. It's much much bigger, you know, But like it's kind of like you've heard a stone sheep. That's a pebble sheep right there, Yes it is, so anyway, that's uh, that was an interesting thing there before we get I guess we can kind of get off of that. But before we get too much further into this intro, I wanted to make sure that everybody knows we've got any incredible podcast lined up today with UM a guy who just like if you go look at his Instagram page, like you know immediately this guy is for real. Uh Stephen Drake H. He works a lot with several companies, but he does a lot of stuff with SICA, and uh, you know, you and I are pretty proud to wear SICKO, especially just considering the conservation work they do and how they're big proponents of that. But we're gonna talk shed hunting, and man, he's got a cool perspective because he doesn't have much of the like Midwestern white tail uh like experience or or perspective when it comes to this thing. He's gonna he's gonna be more of your Western guide doing a lot of elk and mule deer. But you know, I think the thing is we're gonna try to talk a lot about UM the like overall concepts, like general concepts that you can use, UM if you're hunting in East Texas, if you're hunting in West Texas, South Texas, or if you're hunting in Iowa, or you know, obviously if you're out west. So, um, I think you can take a lot of these, uh, these concepts that he's gonna display for us here and show and use them to your advantage when walking around the White Tail Woods. So anyway, onto the next thing. We have a package. We're doing an opening on the podcast. Casey doesn't know what it is. It's really not that cool. Um, what my wife, the surprise she re into earlier was way cooler. And you still don't know the details of that. So but now that you know that it's happening, I'll just go ahead and let you know. I am intrigued that this is not what she said, so like, this is a totally different surprise supposedly. So it's taking a second with the key here. I'm sucking knof does gets lost all the time about those snakes But didn't you? Yeah, I don't know. I just want to I'm gonna they're huge. It's good, it's big. There's huge snakes arounding here. Okay, So last year walking around on a lot of this public land, you know, we've got a lot of low creek systems in the eastern half of Texas and the river systems, and we came a couple of times real close to stepping on the watermarks and and the thing that freaks me out of animals, they don't give me any warning, you know, And I wonder, you know, I don't know, like if you stepped on a snake, is it gonna bite you? Probably nine percent of the time, yeah, I mean at least think yeah, and then he's just stuck. But I feel like if you, like are just walking and you go to step on his head, he's probably gonna make Have you ever like like took a hoe and just like push down on one like you like, if you ever next time we find a watermarksk and we need to get a stick or something, push on it and I'll show you like it's automatic, Like it's like a They flip their head over and like to show you their belly and then bought back. I hate that so much, so much. I hate that you even told me that. Yeah, it's kind of rough, dude. Okay, so I'm gonna iterate this while Tyler opens. These are the Lacrosse Venoms Venoms that's a super tall snaked. It's tall, it is, dude, I don't know. I'm not looking forward to walking in these very much. I bet their comfy. I bet their comfy. But dude, in the summertime, that's when we sweat. See you find, Dude, I wore snake boots for two years straight in my life and work for the state, and you get used to it, like you kind of almost like miss it when you don't have it, like the shin protection and stuff like, it's not just about the snakes, Like briars around your legs. Ain't no thing you're gonna I can put my my pant legs over this though, right probably. Yeah, that's what I always took money in. Really, yeah, you'd be good. Um anyway, that's why if you look like these pants that I have on right now, they're torn up from the knee up and then the knee below, they're still in really good shape. It's because the wore snake boots with them for two years straight. Okay, I got you. So yeah, these are really tall, um, and hopefully they fit. But gortas their gortex, they're waterproof, so that's cool. Like I could literally get in what fourteen sixteen inches of water there and be dry. Yes, so the tongue goes down, well, tongue has done pretty far, goes down to here. Okay, so still probably fourteen inches huh things it's over the foot, I would say, yeah, probably so. Um so, yeah, they're waterproof, they are snake proof, and they are the uh n w TF camo or whatever up. So I thought that's cool. I don't know if any of that, like it goes to the n W t F or not, but I thought, man, be ripping I like a zipper side of boot that also is a lace up. Like that's like the best of both worlds. You can get it fitting perfect and then you can zip out of it, and it's a perfect like you don't ever tie you just so you just can tie this thing and then zip out of it. Every time. You warned pretty much what I did. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So I've never I've never had any snake boots, and I've got some big huge uh feet feet and I've got those uh big rockies that I got that we talked about earlier this year, and uh, I thought, man, those would be like a pretty probably pretty snake proof. But they have eight hundred grand grams of fencilated them. So I was like, I ain't walking around in eight hundred. Hey, I wore my all acrosses the other day and uh, it was like seventy five outside and it won't too bad. Yeah yeah, but my feet didn't swipt worse than anything else did. So well, when it's like it's probably make a difference, huh. Well. The other reason I wore snake boots lots because when I was running around on four whiler that hot exhaust right next year late, and that's that actually kind of helped that. Yeah that's cool, dude. Yeah I thought I thought it was cool. I mean they're expensive for you, now, that's it. No snake excuses. I literally will feel a lot better walking around by the creeks and stuff. In fact, you are the now the cotton mouth stomper. That is your job. Absolutely not. Hey dude, I'm telling you, snake boots or not, if a snake bites me, I will freaking freak out. Like I'm talking. I'm just I'm just gonna go ahead and say that. Man. So yeah, anyway, I got those Those are cool. Those are cool. Um, so we've got we don't actually have any personal shed hunting experience this year so far, I found one little babyshit, but we weren't shed hunting, that's true. So uh, well, I I hiked the other day with a shotgun in my hand looking for where antlers on the grounds, and nothing happened. So, I mean we've been out a few times. We haven't gone out really with the sole purpose of finding sheds, but it's coming soon. I discussed this with somebody today, Uh, somebody from the Midwest, And like, I literally that day when I went out, it's last Saturday, right, I saw a bachelor group of seven bucks and they all were carrying both sides. Still, that's how it is down here, man, Like you just need to wait until mid March or later. And then at that point in time, it's green up in all the grass and briers and honeysuckles have all grown back and you can't find them. Yeah, it's terrible. That was the point I was I was thinking, is that today we had a ton of rain recently, and and we've had a couple of days of sunshine and today it was only like a half day of sunshine or whatever. But um, I look out there and there's like some grass grow one that's like almost a foot tall, like spring grass. I don't know what what kind it is, but it's what I mean, it's starting to come up, you know, and like in some spots like a foot tall. And I'm like, man, if these things don't hurry up and get rid of their antlers, we ain't gonna find the never gonna find them. So that's that's a frustrating part of living around here for sure. Hopefully, um, I don't know, man, I mean, hopefully we can get out in the next couple of weeks and uh just try to find you know, Like, I don't know if this has any if this has any um you know, I don't know if this has any validity to it at all or not. But um, like I would feel like that a big antler is heavier, so it would fall off faster. I would think so too. And we whenever we were in the Midwest, Uh, this past scout post season scouting strip, the biggest book we saw a ship, So that makes sense. But if you're talking about we little Texas deer who aren't really that big in the first place, you know, is it a relative thing. I was just kind of I was kind of thinking about you know, teenager or whatever, and I was like, man, I wonder if like having like kind of big wider sides, you know, like if that just kind of like walking through the thick brush, if it's gotta grab on stuff. I mean, I know they get used to having them up there, but still ciner later. Sure, I mean, I guarantee you grabs on stuff and then not not to mention like it's it's off center, you know, like the weight distribution is going to be wider off their head. So I don't know, that's just like my thoughts. So I wonder if like maybe that some of the bigger deer are shedding right now, whereas the little ones maybe not so much, and we can go out there and stay in a chance of finding some teenager ships. So we're gonna have to ask her guests about how to how to find those babies. For sure, I think we should probably go ahead and get him, get him on the podcast and ask him that what do you think sounds good? Let's do it on the phone. Now we have photographer, vlogger and shed hunting fanatic Stephen Drake. Dude, have you thought out yet? Have I thought out? I have actually I didn't know that I that I would. Um, first off, thanks for having me guys, And for those who don't know, I was just in British Columbia on a on an eight day mountain goat hunt and we were romping around and like five to eight ft of snow and it was as winter of a hunt and cold as a hunt as I've ever been on. So which can kind of be expected when you stay up Debuary Mountain, but it was it was a little more than I think we all signed ourselves up for. Really, man, So, uh, what was the outcome? There were uh, you know, were you guys able to fill the tag? We did? We were able to connect and um yeah, at the end of the day eight there was two guys that had tags and we were able to get one and one was plenty. Yeah. Imagine it's probably like hauling a yeddie out of the off the top of the mountain. Yeah, it was just like so much time an effort just to get up to where the goats were. Um. Quick thing about mountain goats in the winter, like when there's where we were this year, there was so much snow that all the goats was typically the goats are kind of mid mountain, and they're they're kind of in the cliffs and kind of in the timber, and there's really not that much snow in that kind of at that elevation. But this year there was so much snow that the only open spots were at the very very top of the mountains. So, I mean, I don't know, four or five thousand vertical feed up and like that's where all the goats were, and so we had to climb all the way up there, and um, the one that we ended up getting, it took us basically three and a half days just to get up to where the goat was. So, I mean, I guess it doesn't make sense when you first hear it. But the reason this snow was less up there is because the wind was blowing it off the top of the mountain. I guess, yeah, yeah, right, yeah, So the winds blowing off they're just kind of these these wind exposed ridges, and you know, and then on the big south facers, the sun is also shining pretty hard on the snow, and so there's a little bit of grass poking up. I don't know what all they're eating up there, but there's apparently some food man, that's crazy. That's uh. I was up there in October filming a stone sheep hunt and we watched winter arrive in five degree five degree fashion. I was like, I was like, there is no way that I would go back in February. When I when you told me that you were heading up there, Um, I was like, there's no way. Texans are not built for that kind of weather. You know. It was a type too fun trip, as I like to describe it, like really crappy while you're doing it and you're constantly questioning, like why are we doing this? But at the end when you look back on it, it it was like, that was epic. And I think you just learned a lot about yourself when you really push yourself way outside your elements. And um, I certainly find that in mountain hunting especially and shed hunting as well, which I'm sure we'll have been do here something. Yeah for sure. Man. That's uh, that's that's pretty neat. I I agree with you like that kind of that kind of a trip. It makes for the best stories. You know, like if you if you're having a blast and you're like, uh, drinking little umbrella drinks, you know, on the beach like catching selfish, Well, somebody dat your hook, you know, like, yeah, it's fun while it's happening, but like you know, people don't necessarily want to hear that. They want to hear about the five foot snowdrifts you're diving off into, you know, and like how you almost died and your camera like heads, all these issues and all these things. You know, that's that's what people like to hear totally. And I mean and from a personal perspective, it's like the more struggle, the more you get out of it, you know, the more the more you suffer, the more you learn about yourself or and from a photography aspect like that's where like photo photo gold happens when you're really struggling and you're pushing them through like bad weather. I love shooting and really crappy weather just because that struggle is still real and it's it's so prevalent and you can really see it in your subjects faces and everything, and so um, I'm very drawn to that. I will say, next week I'm going to Hawaii for a access deer hunt, so I think that will be about the exact opposite. Yeah, that's cool, man, that'll be neat. I'm not complained, So you're gonna shed hunt while you're there. I mean, you know, it's pretty funny. Almost every time in the mountains, I feel like I'm subconsciously looking for antlers. And I was in New Zealand about a year ago, and um yeah, I was fighting all sorts of red stag antlers and like a lot of you know, those those guys, a lot of them shed hunts over there and they pick them up and they grind them up and sell them whatever. But there was a few that they obviously missed, And um yeah, I'm always looking at that's subconscious thing. Sure, man, and I do the same things that I'm not nearly accomplished, is what you are, right, we are. We're always looking for maybe hopefully to find one white tailed shed somewhere. But that's awesome that you get to, God, go to these neat places and find you know, exotic ships, where most people think of just trying to go shoot the exotic. You know, it's kind of a neat aspect of it. So what's like if you could, I guess, uh say, what's your next one is that you'd like to find, like a specie or something that you've never found a ship from what what would be kind of like your your your goal or your your life lister. Um. You know, it's not necessarily like another species. I just I just love the process of um this this might turn into one of those rabbit holes it's a podcast or about man exactly. So it's like for me for shed hunting, it's it's about that kind of that ever growing continuation of just building a really strong like I hate the word knowledge basic because I use it all the time, but basically a knowledge base on these different animals that we many of us spend our lives kind of pursuing trying to learn about and UM. So for me, it's like, I mean, I'm I'm based in Montana. That's pretty much where I do on my shed hunting. I haven't really expanded outside of Montana, but it's just it's continuing to build my knowledge based on Montana and all the animals that are in this state and um and just learning specific like regions and zones or branches, um really really well. And I mean to the point where you you know, really exactly like the movement patterns of different game animals and in a lot of sense, I mean that that really translates over really really well to your actual fall hunting. And uh, I mean I would say I would learn I probably learned more. Actually, I guarantee I learn more in shed season than I do really the rest of the year. Um, just on those areas and the type of animals live in areas, the quality that the movement patterns um and you know, you're you're hiking all day long. I mean there's We've had plenty of like ten fifteen mile day in the mountains and you definitely learn what you're made of situation for sure. And the weather is usually pretty crappy, like March and in April is our our wettest months here in Montana, so the weather usually sucks and you're out there just giving it. So yeah, and it's it's it's neat to hear that from somebody who you know, is you know, half a country, your way, uh where it really is it's the drive to just uh know as much about these animals and really just love the animals as much as you can. You just look for these little facets of like how else can I involve my life to experience what this animal does or kind of be in their lives, it would be a part of nature or whatever way you can. You know, that's kind of how I think that oftentimes, Uh just it's cliche, cliche to call it a culture, but oftentimes hunting culture can can deviate from that. Uh, I guess kind of the pure way of looking at it, we're like, you know, you just the reason we hunt is because we just enjoy it. It's about you know, the score or the size or the quantity or what have you. And uh, it's almost like sometimes shed hunting has turned into that. You know, how do you feel about the whole uh competitive nature of shed hunting or how it can turn that way or even like the uh economizing you know, sheds and and finding a way to make money off of it. You know, is that do you think that that's still kind of uh has a valid point or I guess a right place in the world of shed hunting, or do you kind of feel like that's kind of like missing out? No, that's a that's a great question. And I mean from a financial standpoint, I mean I probably shed hunted forty five days that I didn't keep track last year, I know the year before I did, like thirty days living out of the back of my truck, like like I didn't. It was not It's not a money making proposition. Like if you had a big, giant, private ranch and you could in like one day go pick like thirty elk sheds, like sure, you'd probably make some money, but uh, to me, it's not a money making proposition because because I haven't made any money, Like I picked like six hundred pounds actually had last year, and you know, you could do the math on it, and it's like, yes, I made money, but the amount of time that I actually spend in the field, it's certainly not a money making promises. So people are trying to get into it. They think they're gonna make money, Like you're you're not gonna make money. You're you're viewing it wrong, and the like I would prefer that, And I don't know if money is a really a big driving factor. I kind of feel like it's just gotten so popular that regardless of cost, I think, I mean, even if the shed prices dropped, you know, by half, I still feel like there'll be a lot of people out there, which is cool because people just are really really passionate about um deering health and animals and whatnot. Um and like of course, like I'm always looking for a really big ship. I mean, I mean lie about that. But it's it's not like again, I mean, it's just it's all about the process for me, and it's about investing years and years and years and years and of effort into one area or one animal or like I mean, a couple of my friends and I we've found sheds off of bull Elk and Neil Dear that I mean are absolutely massive, that like you've never heard about, you've never seen, Like it's a it's just really cool to kind of build a relationship with with you know, these animals in a lot of ways and um so so yeah, to to kind of wrap that or bring that around. For me, it's it's not about the money. It's not really about the size. It's more just about investing a ton of time into an area and into wildlife in general and just just learning about them and really being I don't know if an expert is the right the right word, but just being really profident about what you're doing. And I think that's just kind of the natural progression of of hunting or shed hunting or really anything you do. You know, you're always trying to build, you know, build yourself up and continue to get better, whether whether you're a skier, you know, countain climbate, like whatever. You just you're always trying to kind of step it up. And I think she hunting is certainly a great way to do that. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. So have you found like some really toad daddy seven points 're like, what's like the I guess your most you're proud and joy of alkhids that you found. Um, that's a great question, man, I've got there's a there's a couple that are that are standouts for sure. Um My my good friend Isaac Nelson. He's been like my number one hunting partner for for a long time, and him and I were just trying to share as much knowledge as we can with each other. And and for him and I, it's anytime we're out, it's like if he finds one, if I find one, like doesn't matter. It's like a joint depper, you know, there's no there's no eye and you know, our friendship, it's it's you know, we're always kind of doing stuff together, which is a lot of fun. And him and I Um, I don't remember how many years ago, three or four years ago, we pulled one out of the snow and we he actually set up his camera and he videoed me pulling it out of the snow and it ended up being a So it's it's a hundred eighty eight inches on it's a single. So it's a hundred eight sorry, hundred and eighty eight inch single. Um, I think it's like an eight point and if you were to double it and then add like a typical spread, it would be like a four. Yeah. Huge. Yeah. We were shocked and we had no idea how big it was until I got home and measured it, and I was like, I would swear I was doing it wrong. So yeah, well I kind of have a similar experience and it's actually, uh it's you, of course not ILK, but uh we were. Last year we went on like a Bonzay style scouting trip where we decided to take a canoe down a river that was more like a log Leyden Creek. Pretty much just destroyed ourselves in that afternoon, uh, being way too ambitious. But the cool thing that came from that is that I spotted what I thought was a shed on the bank and we got out. It was kind of like this the secondary bank, like kind of you know, low water bank or whatever. And got out and it ends up that it's a deadhead, like buried in the dirt and all you can see you're kind of like half the main beams. And we see it. We're thinking, Okay, this is gonna be pretty cool. You know, like there's like a you know, a nice eight point or something under here. Will I pull and there's like a whole another time below there there what we thought was there. Like so what we thought was like a deadhead from like a you know, a two year old buck ended up being a dead hit from like a mature buck. And it was like, it's probably one of my coolest finds ever, just the way it went, you know, like we spotted it from the water and I crawled out and like pulled out, and it's like when it's just like what you're saying, it's like a super surprise, like you don't know what's gonna come out of the dirt. It's just kind of kind of neat. I don't I don't know. It's Tyler and I we're talking about this earlier, like we both love surprises. Like Tyler said that he never, like his mom, never had to worry about like him peeking in on Christmas gifts, you know, because surprises are like so enticing. Damn I'm the same way, you know. And that's kind of the thing about shit hunting in general. It is like you never know what you're gonna walk up on, you know, And uh, I guess we know that we're not gonna walk up on any you know, hundred eighty eight in elk sheds here in Texas. But there's other cool things. So what about like any other really cool ship finds that you've had. So my my very very first time ever elk hunting, Uh, this was I don't even know. I think I was like sixteen years old. My dad and I were. It was my first day every elk hunting. I was bowl hunting. Um, I just I got the bowl hunting bug early on and I decided to give that a shot. And we're walking around the woods and really had didn't really know what we were doing. Like my dad he's right behind me, he's not hunting, I'm hunting, and he's got a hoochie mom elk call. It's like one of those squeeze calls and the game. We don't really know what we're doing. It was kind of walking around and so we're sneaking through the woods midday and he's right behind me and then he like he like whispers pretty adamantly. He's like, he's like, Steve, stop, and so I'm like, I freeze, and I've got an arrow knock. Like midday, I don't don't even see an elk or anything. So I'm like, I'm stopped. I ap peering through the timber and I don't I don't know what he's what he sees. And then he and he kind of interrupts. He's like he's like, no, no, look down, like in a normal voice, and I look right straight down, and I like six more inches and I would have pretty much tripped over a pretty big elk shed. And it was it was a seven point with split G two. So it's second point was like split and probably I don't know, six or eight inches out on each side. And uh so that that was my very first time, like very first morning in the elk woods. Um and so we found that elk shed and it it was like it's so big that, I mean a three fifty bowl was a great bowl. I mean, but it at the time, like it was so big and massive that it really like scared me, Like I was like, holy crap, like these things live in the woods and it just made me shake and like I couldn't even control myself. And so and then you know, then the hunting day got a heck of a lot better for it from there. But it was without diving into details there, it was like a really awesome introduction to elk in and in elk hunting, and um, I suppose I should feel very fortunate in that sense because it really hooked me from the get go. But that was kind of my Yeah, that was my my first introduction to elk and elk hunting and shed hunting too. That's cool man. So you did you grow up there in Montana? I guess I did. Yeah. Cool. Cool, So I can kind of see why, I guess. Um, but you like looking at your Instagram mostly the sheds you're finding our mule deer and elk, you know, mountain animals. Um have you do you ever get out, I guess to the eastern side and do whitetail stuff or anything like that. I've done a little bit. It's it's been pretty hit or miss. Um. I mean, once in a while I'll stumble upon some aspen grove and I'll a couple of years ago I picked like eleven and eleven white tail sheds in one little area and I was having an absolute hey day. But but but for the most part, yeah, it's been mule deer an help, And I did pick one. It was two years in a row of I think it was his left side. Um, it was in a reason. It was in a blog that I did on shed hunting not too long ago. But it was like probably a hundred sixty white tail like like timber buck like. I was up in the mountains looking for mule deer and elk sheds and I stumbled upon these these two white tail sheds that were of a very large Montana white tails. But I don't really exist. So that's so cool, man. Have you have you ever spent any time hunting the timber or the mountain white tails like that a little bit? Yeah? Actually this year, um, this year the deer that I ended up shooting, I was I was really set on shooting hunting mule deer, and um, long story short, spent many many days Jason Jason sum and came up short. And then I went back to that area where I found those white tail sheds, thinking like, man, if this deer is still I like, how cool would that be to to reconnect with him? And and I didn't end up getting him, but I got one that has very very similar genetics, um, a little bit younger, but I like just a big old Roman nose on him. And so really it was because of shed hunting that allowed me to everything, that that brought me to that moment where I was able to connect with the deer that I should that's your that's your uh, that's like you said, you know, you're learning so much and when you're shed hunting, that's uh, that's where it paid off right there, huh, no doubt. And then like one thing shed hunting too, it's your with with hunting in the fall or whenever your season starts, it's typically a first light last light thing, and so you know you have two hours in the morning and two hours in the evening generally speaking, and so that's that's a pretty tight little time window, you know, to be learning stuff. And then but when you're shed hunting, I mean you're hiking around all day long. I mean it's it's on rise, the sunset and then some and uh so to me, just the amount of the amount of foot miles that you can put on in a lot of these areas, UM, and you're just walking, you know, you're walking winter range, you're walking summer range, you're just hiking through the woods. Yeah, you just stumble upon stuff and you figure out like where a lot of like fall running signs has been or or you pick some sheds. I don't know, there's just there's just so much to be learned with um when you have your feet on the grounds, and the more time that you're out there, the more time you're moving. See, it must be different Montana because our sheds aren't on their feet during the day much like Well, I don't know what the deal is. We're not We're just not seeing them there. I think it's mostly nocturnal movement. Yeah, there you go. They'll get up and run off. You gotta be careful. That's I think. Maybe we're just being too loud walking through the woods. You gotta call them that. There's a Yeah. So I have a friend from Washington that he hunts a lot of the West Stern stuff. Casey and I we get out there time to time, but mostly for like the affordable trout fishing kind of thing. Uh. But uh, you know, he sits at the top of like or he's mentioned this to me, where he would sit at the top of these big bowls where he can see a lot of country and then they'll just pull, uh pull out their spot and scopes and binos and stuff, and um, they basically are like picking these sheds visually throughout the day. And they've got like a guy that they I guess on a two way radio or something like that, and they're just like leading them to these sheds all day. And that's one way they do it. And I don't know, I don't know the ethics of it or anything like that. This may be like super frowned upon it out there, but uh, I mean, have you ever done anything like that? Or and then also what's the I mean, what do you find most effective when you're when you're looking for sheds? Yeah, yeah, great question. I mean, so so radio's I think radios are illegal in Montana for yeah, don't quote me on this, you have to refer to the regulations. But for um, relaying the location of like game animals for hunting purposes, and I to my knowledge, shed hunting does not fall into that. Um, I can't say I've ever just a lot of the country that I'm hunting, it's it's it's a different type of country you're not you're not glassing. Some of it you're glassing for sure, but a lot of it you just kind of put your head down or you know, you you've got about a thirty yard kind of window in front of you you can see, um. But yeah, certainly some of it. And it's it's really all dependent on the type of um terrain that you're in. If you know, if it is big and open and sage and you can glass a lot of it like heck, yeah, by all means, I mean, if there's a big shed laying on the ground like it's they really stick out, um and once once you kind of develop an eye for it, um, they really again, they really stand out. So so glassing can be a great um tactic. And then a lot of what I do it's just I mean, it's really just well, let's back up. I guess shed hunting is very competitive and a lot of people do it, and uh so I would say the learning curve can be pretty steep, just because there's so many guys doing it, and there's so many guys that like, you know, their stuff really well and then been doing it for like ten plus years. And it's pretty interesting to talk to a lot of the old timers that did it twenty years ago. I mean they would go out and like locally here, they'd pick like thirty sheds a day, and they would have to leave some behind because there their pack was too heavy. And so last year I had a pret decent shed year, but the previous like five years, I mean my my average like miles walked per shed, it was over ten miles per shed. That's like that's like mountain miles, you know. So it's it's not like you're just tripping on sheds out there. It's pretty tough. You know. Earlier you talked about, uh, you know, covering that ground and learning so much about different animals and what are doing all times of the year in the leading to you know, hunting success, which is awesome, and I try to do that. But every time that we um decide we're gonna go do a little ship hunting or uh other top of activity that's not hunting, for you know, big game, we always end up just in scout mode and don't even concentrate on what we're actually trying to do, where that's hunting sheds or whatever. You know. So, like, I know that you are picking up on all these other details while you're shed hunting, But how do you how do you stay focused on the task at hand and not just get so wrapped up in knock this bull would be appear in this aspen grow over whatever? You know what I mean? Like, how do you stay on task? Um? I don't know. I have an addiction to the sheds. I guess I have a problem. Um No, that's a good question. It's kind of funny. For me, It's it's almost flip flopped. Like when I'm in the fall and I find it like a shed or or I find some like really interesting terrain feature where I'm like oh, like like my mind always goes to shed season. I'm like, oh, this this spot might hold sheds, where I was like, oh man, the elk might migrate out of here and come out to like this feature. So for me, it's kind of flip flopped. I'm not I don't look at stuff. I certainly look at stuff with with the hunting mind. But but in the fall, I'm always kind of looking at stuff with a shed hunting mind. So's it's honestly, it's probably fifty fifty. It's a but yeah, I don't know as far as focus goes. I mean, it's just I don't know. I kind of view it is all the same and in a certain way. Yeah. So do you chronicle your sheds anyway, Like do you photograph them or anything? Whenever you first find them? Um? Yeah, I mean I've got a pretty big so I used to have like an Excel spreadsheet or I would like label all the sheds I ever picked, But I just I couldn't like and you know that i'd label like the date and the type of terrain and stuff. But I couldn't find a very good way to Maybe I'm just not uh inclined well enough to kind of organize it all, but I just couldn't couldn't find a great way to organize at all. And so um as of late though, I you know, there's like Google earth is is awesome obviously used on x maps a lot. You just you can just drop a pin and um and make a note obviously if you if you open up my Google Earth or on x maps, it's absolutely littered with points, to which is fortunate, but it's it's to the point where it's like, okay, like how do you organize the whole site of Montana is covered in red dots? You just can't even see that. Yeah, so I don't know if I need to start color labeling for different years or what. Who knows. Yeah, It's it's cool because it's gotten to a point where I've really really figured out certain areas really really well and kind of timing involved there and um. But with that, it's like you're always wanting to explore more and explore new areas or or even like the areas you've been to a ton of times. It's like, okay, like how can I like like this in a little bit different fashion? And that I might be like hitting a zone or a patch of timber that I've never really looked into, and um, and that's like that's one Like a lot of people are asking me ask me a lot like oh, like like give me give me a tip on shed hunting, and and it's well, first off, it's hard to generalize because there's so many different terrain features and like you know, in this mountain range, the elk are going to do this thing, and this mountain range are going to do that. Like I mean, like I found I found elk sheds at like feet in waist deep snow that you would wonder like why the heck or the elk living up here, But that's where they live and that's every year, that's what they do. And then like one mountain range over or even like across the other side of the valley, there'll be four thousand feet lower. And it's it's like logic of some of these animals that you really start to question sometimes. But so anyway, I mean a lot of it's just you know, I think spending time just being like generally observed to where to wear elk are. And then like I learned a lot in the winter, um like like basically right when the hunting season closes in the fall, I mean a lot a lot of these alp wals start showing up in different spots and they'll become visible and um so you know, whether you're glass from a highway or you're hiking in some trailhead and just go up and sit up on sudden job and you start start looking around, like you you will start to see some some wintering animals kind of pop out, and that will give you, you know, that will give you a clue on where where you might find them in the spring and then once you're hiking in the spring again because it's so competitive and this is this is kind of one of the ugly parts of shed hunting is that it is so competitive. And you know, there's been a couple of different states now that are having like shed hunting closures because guys are going in so early and you know, or like guys are going after big mule here because mel you're dropped kind of more in the winter. But then they might have a really bad winter, and so you know, you're you're pushing animals around when they're kind of at there there, like their health is a is at a low point and so which you know, it makes sense for sure, but anyway, not to dive into that. But one tip I've always found is too hiking areas that other people wouldn't And that could be as simple as like, okay, instead of walking right on the top of the ridge here, I'm just gonna like bail off like fifty yards kind of kind of where it gets steep and kind of rolls over and like it's it's a pain to walk, but it's like a lot of times like that's where find sheds is kind of like just off the beaten path just a little bit sure because the first guys that go into a zone, they're gonna they're gonna hit all the obvious stuff and then you know, if you're the first guy, great, but if not, Like I mean, there's there's always sheds to be found. I mean I find a lot of whites every year, so I find a lot of year old sheds. Yeah the next year. Yeah, there's always somethingetting left behind. Maybe one of these days you know, have on ex just did the uh the Newberg roadless area, They'll be like the Stephen Drake shit season something you know, I don't want to give away that uh so um, you know you're talking about like tips and stuff. Is there any specific like weather condition or like sunlight overcast that kind of thing that you found to be more conducive defining shit? Um? Not really, just because there they are refined them and sometimes they'll be in like old growth timber. Sometimes they'll be out on a big open, wind swept slope like that. You know, there's and often at least in Montana, I mean really all the Western states, like springtime is the wettest time of month, and so they can get easily buried with with two ft of snow and then you're you're pretty well in troubled for for a while. Yeah them, but yeah it was it was e d here today. So we're not we're not getting any snow anytimes, they don't think. Um, but yeah, and again I mean our sheds. The only time I'm seeing daytime movement isn't on a north wind really so um anyway, uh so, I guess man, one thing that um, I've noticed is that there's death finally like a lingo or some jargon that that is I guess part of shed culture. Um. So you're saying, pick, I've heard scoop, Um, we've got shed rally. Um, you've talked about whites. Um, so explain some of this for somebody who may be new to this, and then I need to hear a few more man. Well jeez, um, Well, it's it's funny because deer and elk like they're technically antlers and so but like all my buddies and I we we just call them like, oh, like, did you pick any horns? It's like, well, they're technically antlers, but there's something about just the word horn that I think maybe it rolls off the tongue better. So we all we all say horn that we we know the difference between a horn and antler. So, um, so that's one. Yeah, I've always said pick. I guess drop obviously isn't. So when you're talking, why would would be a year older or or older than so like it dropped the spring before you found it or older? Right? Yeah, Okay, so y'all call the other ones browns or yeah, so like sheds that like drop you know, within the last month or like that that year, I guess that. Um, we call those browns and year olds or whites. And then like anything older than that, like they really start to decay and kind of they just turn into more of a piece of bone than anything, And we call those chalks. Oh that's cool, Okay, I've got a few chalks for sure. Um. So I saw a shot that you took um a while back. I don't know when you took it, but I know that it was on posted your Instagram while back. Um, and I saw some criticism, um or some I guess unbelievers. Um, there is an elk kind of coming up over this little small ridge, looks like and there's a shed that's like it's like it looks so posed. I mean no when you I don't know you that well, but like I'm I don't think that you would do anything to like harm your reputation reputation like that, but like it is like perfect, dude, I mean, is like one of the most unbelievable pictures that were seeing. Like the horn is in the same direction as the elk coming up over the ridge, and like and and then you look at his brow times and you're like, that looks just like the brow times on that elk as well, you know, like what's the story on that? Man? Yeah, so that is an entirely authentic photo. I I don't I don't do any photoshop work. I don't introduce elements to images that weren't originally there. Um I would, I don't know. I would attribute that persistence and a little bit of luck. So is there is there any way that you can divulge some of the like what you were doing and how you got that shot totally yeah, it was. It was the middle of winter three or two or three years ago, and I was just I was out looking for bowl help, trying to get some some winter type images of bowls, and I came up on this one. And I don't know if he was I think he was super old or I'm not really sure, because he definitely saw me, and he just he wasn't too concerned, um to the point where he let me get you know, a hundred yards away without you know, him him bugger and he just kind of sat there like on that just just over that that knoll, and he would look at me every now and then, but then then they're just there, happy to be a shed right there. And I was like, oh, that's cool for him, the shed and the elk together. And I at the time of taking the photo, I didn't really think anything of it. I was like, oh, that's like, that's cool, but um and it wasn't really until I posted it it was like, oh, yeah, I guess that is cool. Yeah, that's I mean, that's a killer shot. I thought that was so cool. Um I um, I guess. Another question I'd have is this is, so, when I guess when you shed hunt alone Um, you have the opportunity to do it exactly like you want most of the time, but when you shed hunt with other guys, things can change. Um. Are you the guy that likes to walk real slow and glass every twig or are you the guy that likes to cover ground quickly, look for the obvious ones and pick those and move on. That's a great question. So I typically move really slow, and I found that like looking back over my shoulder, turning around as I'm walking. Um, that's that's yielded a lot of sheds because when you're just when you're walking forward, you get you get you know, one view. But then if you turn around and look back, like just the way the grass is land, the way the shed could be land like, it might just be super obvious one direction and not so obvious the other. And so I think a lot of guys actually walk by sheds. Um. So I'm definitely one to move when I when I know I'm in like a decent zone. I definitely moved pretty slow, and I'm always turning in my head. I'm always usually tripping a lot because I'm looking around so much. But so are you, uh, like, what percentage would you say you find when you turn around. Oh, probably really man, like quite a few. Yeah that yeah, that's surprising to me. I guess. I guess that's why I'm probably finding less sheds than here. Yeah, maybe a lot more than that. Um, that's cool, man, That's that's very interesting. For sure. I like to walk real slow too, but like, uh, I don't know in the at least where when I've done it in the past, it's all been white tails pretty much. Um. And you know, we'll get like two or three guys walking together and next thing, you know, like you look up and your buddies four yards ahead of you and you're like, hey, he's walking down my path too, you know, and yeah, asshole, and so you're like, well, you know, I guess I'll just try to keep up. So uh, it tends like it feels like to me that when you get guys that are anxious to find sheds and we're walking a creek bottom or something, it's like this guy is just almost every time, it just seems like inevitable that somebody's gonna be walking faster than you. And if you don't want them to get, you know, the obvious ones to get, you know, kicked up in front of you and picked. I mean, you gotta go faster. So I don't know if there's like do you have any tips? I mean, I guess you could talk that out with your buddies early, but uh, you know, what do you when you're shed hunting with with a buddy or more, how does that? How does that usually look? Yeah? Great questions. So when I'm the main person that I had shed hunt with is my my friend Isaac that I was telling about earlier, as well as my dad and UM with Isaac, Uh, well, one, we're usually in like real big mountain terrain. There's lots of coolies and draws, and you know, there might be aspects on a certain slope that are just you know, head high and know it's like, okay, we're not gonna walk bad because we physically can't do it, and so we we generally have a haven. We we always have a rough plan of what we're gonna do. Um in him and I usually split up. It's like okay, you walk that ridge, I'll walk this ridge, and we'll we'll meet at that point. But I also we also give each other radios because uh, if we start finding sheds and then you just you kind of just follow wherever the sheds take you. Um, I think if we were going to like grid searching area, or if we were in some flatter train where it's like it makes a lot of sense for for two guys to just kind of grid search. I think I think it would be really smart to to really lay out a plan. And at the same time, you want, like you really want to spend as much time focused like looking in less time focused like tracking the other person, whether they have a a g you know, GPS that shows their location. Like you know, I think it's I think it's like the more time you can have your mind, your your your eyes on the ground, the better. Um. And like with my dad and I, it's more like we try to shed hunt together and so you know, we're always trying in the state thirty yards from each other and we try to grid stuff out and we've been like him and I've been really successful and found a lot and it's cool from a camaraderie standpoint to like if your body is like a mile away on some other random ridge and you find a big shed and it's like, oh darn, can't like celebrate together. But so see, you know, there's there's benefits of both, and I I think terrain kind of dictates that as well. And it's nice to like when you're used to shedding by yourself, for like, like you walk this ridge, I'll walk that ridge. Then you can each to do it your own way. M hm. I find that kind of nice. But but then when you know, when you get to the end of the road or to the ridge, it's like, you know, you collaborate and share with each other what you learned, and it's a that could be just a great way to learn as much as you can about the country is just have a buddy that's super open and um yeah, yeah, sure, you said my favorite word, and that's coolly because no one says it down here, and I love to throw it in every once while. I just look like people look like, what are they talking about? Yeah, so I gotta hunt the coolies of Texas sometimes but okay, so um, I seem to Okay, let me back up. Hunting here just is not something that's done. People love to find them, you know, don't get me wrong, but no one around here really is like man ship season, let's go, you know. It's kind of more like North of here, you know, Midwest stuff and then of course the Western stuff. Um. So I tend to find probably more whites, you know, more older ships than we do fresh ships. Um And I don't really know how to combat that or to change that, because I'd like to find, you know, just because they're cool when they're browns. And also I need a new set of rattling antlers and the white ones don't work here is good, So you know, like, uh, I guess maybe it's just because the coloration or whatever. But do you have any tips for like finding those like really fresh ships? Man? I mean I would say that most well, I don't know. Some years I find a lot of brown but but generally speaking I usually find more whites than browns, which always like bugs me because I'm like, man, I hiped the same spot last year. Always white's you know, it's like you missed a bunch of the previous year. Like, yeah, browns are definitely they don't stick out quite as much as white. It's like you get a white and white elk shit is this big white time sticking up? It really stands out. So so yeah, that always bothers me, and it's it's made me just that much more thorough. I guess when I when I go through some of these areas or or if I'm going you know, if I'm going into an area that I I knew I hit really hard the previous year, but then I'm finding whites and you know, kind of bugs you. And so you really try to be thorough as you possible. And like I was saying earlier, when you like, go slow, turn your head a lot, look behind you. Um, I think that can definitely yield some some results. So but yeah, get lace the eye surgery. I my, that's pretty good. I usually pretty good at picking out some stuff. But it's just I don't know, just we live in such a thick cover, man, and you know, we're hunting mostly whitetail sheds that are probably lucky to be fifty inches, you know, So uh, I don't know, it's just uh, I guess, just you Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty jealous of the idea of, like, you know, having a hundred fifty inch piece of the antler laying on the ground that you could find. I did find one elk shed one time, and that was in Arizona when we were her trout fishing, and there was a elk shed and I was like stoves, you know, Like, I mean, you gotta think like we're a bunch of Southern boys and we don't see elk sheds very often. So like that's like one of my pride and joys. And it's literally is like the rag of all rags. He's small, but I was very proud of it. Um So, Okay, Tyler and I um have a target bug that we found two years ago. He survived this whole hunting season. We have truck pictures of him, uh postseason, and um, we would love to find his ships for a just for like the coolness of it, but be to like learn more about him because he's really kind of a mystery book. He's he's located somewhere where like he has a pretty small home range. But um we still, I mean we literally did not see this dear from the standard. It's not very patternable and that's kind of something we run too down here a lot. But um, so if you had, you know, say you had an animal that had a pretty small ish home range and like you could probably target where he's at, Um, what would you tell me and Tyler to do to find his Ship's like a two man team, what would be the best strategy ship I mean, probably grid search. And it's funny, I can't say that like there's really any animals that are. There's probably some there's probably some white tails in Montana that are that are that way here just because their home range generally is smaller. But like a lot of the Alchemy mule here here, they're very migratory and so like they might not even exist in an area until February. It's a it's a bit tricky, but I mean yeah, I mean if you could be as thorough as you possibly can with grid searching and use something like on x maps where you can literally like track out your your path and your you know, you can set up you know, forty yard distance or you know, ten yard distance between um between the two of you and like just really gritted like I mean that that would be the most throw away that you could possibly do. That for sure. Yeah, we'll definitely have to do that this year. I think that we've raid weighed the risk versus reward on finding the sheds and bumping him, and it just I don't know, I don't think that a bump on a deer, especially you know, like we're talking about march. Uh is gonna drive him out too much. I think we're gonna go in there and and try it this year. Um, I'm gonna throw you a little bit of a curveball. Have you ever found any pronghorn ships, you know? I I have. The funny thing is they disintegrate real quick they I see. I've always wondered that, Like you never see people picking them up or you know, like it's not big on Instagram. You know, I just kind of assumed because it's like they're small, even though they're cool, you know, but so like, what's why do they disintegrate like that? Well, don't quote me on this, but they're there. They're much more. They're like they're very fibrous, like in a way, it's kind of like a really tightly woven like hair. And and I think so because it's because it's that because it's not like a solid piece of bone or whatever. It's uh. I think that the wind and the stunt exposure, and you know, if they drop the mill of prairie, there's just a lot of elements kind of beaten down on it. And they Yeah, they all seemed to disintegrate, and even the one, which I think I found a few maybe, like one of them was it was like halfway like unfolded already. It was. It was, it was well within the decay. I think that's why most guys like you don't find the prong orient horns kind of out there sons. Yeah, horns hornell guests is appropriate on that one, right, I don't really know for sure, but that's okay, yes, because they shed him every year. It's kind of weird. Man. Yeah, man, there's just such a weird creature. That's That's that one's kind of on my my list the short list of things I want to accomplish is just a prong horn hunt. Just we have them here in Texas, but they're like pay to play. That's a that's about all there is to it. So we're gonna have to go out of state for it. And man, August is such a tough year or time of year, and then September is kind of dedicated to elk and saving and scouting for white Elsa. I don't know, it's just tough to happen, but one of these days. Yeah, So dude, it has been awesome getting to pick your brain and it sounds like you've just got so much more experience, and it's cool. I guess one of the cool things about podcasting is that we just get to talk to so many people who are experts, and hopefully sooner or later then being smart will rub off on this. We're waiting on it to happen. But but so I just kind of like for a closing question for me, man, like what has been your most ideal place to shid hunt? Like what's the coolest place you've ever gone to do it? And don't give me your units, because I know that's not a scary thing, but like you know, like someplace you've gone it's just so so perfect, or what's like the coolest morning or something like that. Yeah, that's a good question, right, let's see. I think for me it's it's I mean, I've basically been hunting. I've been elk hunting and and now shed hunting. Like I've shut ahunt of a lot of places, but I've really really honed in elk hunting and in one like I don't know, a twenty square miles spot and that's pretty much where I've done I would say my elk hunting, and so I love shed hunting. There because I love I love building like kind of building a relationship with these animals, like like seeing the genetics and over time the genetics like a lot of the elk and I've killed out of here, Like I picked sheds that are like, man, they're really similar. And so that's that's unique and kind of cool to see. And then then to be able to compare that to two sheds that you pull off other bowls in different parts of the Montana, I mean there, it's crazy how genetically different they can be. Like this mountain range they have this going on this mountain range they have that, and it might be like a big gap between the G one and G two versus a real tight gap, like like certain bowls have really tight gaps between the D one and G two, and or like certain ones might have kind of webbed backs and that's a common like thing you'll find among a lot of antlers. And then like other areas or even just other sides of valleys like won't have that. And so uh yeah, to me, it's it's really been honing in on that one spot and um and just kind of building relationship with those animals and figuring out the genetics and figuring out you know, picking like three years off the same bowl. Like that's a really cool thing. And I mean somebody don't who'd ever seen before, but you pick their sheds, you know they exist, and just just really investing time into one area, I think, to me is it's really cool. And I a lot of a lot of guys like like how do I be a more successful hunter? Even? And I try to tell them, like, just invest as much time like whatever, pick find an area and do your online research that's gonna kind of steer you one direction or another, and then like spend like three whole seasons in that one spot and guarantee, like the more you learn, I mean, you're gonna get to a point where you're gonna you're gonna know a lot more than a lot of other people at a hunt it um and that's where you're gonna start having success. Man, we totally get that, being that we you know, pretty overwhelmingly what we do is is white tail, you know, like that's uh, that's what we kind of live for to I mean, you you see you see like a lot of you know, big farms and stuff that are they're finding these sheds for three or four years before they shoot a deer, and we don't Right here where we're at, we don't get a whole lot of opportunity to do that usually. But but you know, like we we all we get the ability to hang trail cameras in like Casey was saying earlier, like we we have this, you know, basically two years worth of data of trail camera pictures with this buck, and like we've never seen him one time, but we know him, you know, and then when he shows up, if that happens, you know, it's gonna be like it's the first time you see him. And like I had this happening in Kansas a couple of years ago where we um we had this deer on the place that he was never a monster, but he always had a really nice uh you know rack. And he was seven and a half years old when I the first time I ever actually saw him, but we had just like hundreds of trail camera pictures of him, and uh, anyway, he the first time I saw him on the hoof was also the last time you know, I shot him, So it was the last time, you know, I ever you know, got a chance to have any kind of experience with them. And that's just like there's something about that. Man. It's just it's special when when something happens like that, and and uh, it's just crazy when like the the excitement that happens when you're like I cannot believe I'm actually seeing this animal. You know, it's just it's a cool thing. And so we we totally get that, man, for sure. I guess kind of wrapping things up here, you know, if you ever need like a white tail guide a photo that's you know, like a model, I can wear Thai pants and I have I have the serious face down man. Like. The only thing I would say, like we were talking about earlier, that I won't do, is like I won't hop off in like an icy river like Donny Vincent and pose for the shot. You know, like I probably won't do that. It's just it's too cold for for me. But um yeah, just let me know, man, just hit me up. You got my email. Um No, are there any cool new hashtags out there that because I know shed Rally, you know, two thousand eighteen is about to be the thing all over Instagram, but like, uh, for for the young crowd that's that's doing the thing on Instagram. What what's the what's the thing to do during shed season? Here? Well, I hadn't heard of shed alley, so I'm definitely okay really maybe so, yeah, you have to use that one for the Western guys, I guess no. I like brown Gold. Well, it's funny how seasonal the it makes perfect sense, right, like, but some of these hashtags are just these different like shed hunting brands especially are very seasonal, just just like hunting is a very all seasonally thing. Um, yeah, brown Gold and just shed hunting. Yeah, I think, yeah, those are the main to the A t l as as they lay. Might might be I don't know, it might actually it might not be. The acronym I can't. You have to look. Yeah, a couple of those. It's like it's like there's a there's a hashtag like an acronym, and then you actually go click on the acronym and it's something you've never heard of, like not politically correct at all, and you're like, oh, yeah, back, I bet a t O would probably wind up with a lot of like and rep stars from Atlanta, Georgia. That's exactly you never know. Yeah, that's cool. So okay, so what's the best way for a listener, it's interested in what you got going on to connect with Stephen Drake and what do you want them to check out the most. Yeah, totally, no thanks. I I'm most active on my Instagram and that's at Stephen Drake Photo and that's Stephen with a v UM. I recently, well, gosh, like last summer, I started blogging, and most of what I like of what I do is in the photography world, and that's what I've done for a long time. When I very first got into it, I was really into into film and in video and hoping create videos and really just share like all the crazy cool things that we experience as hunters. And uh so with with vlogging, I've like, I go on a lot of these these wild trips and I've always shot film on them, I just never really done anything with it. And so, um, I really wanted to show a much more behind the scenes look into some of the stuff that I do, and so I started blogging and um so you can find those on on YouTube and I'm playing to ramp that up quite a bit. It's it's a little tricky though, when you go on like these ten to fifteen day backpack hunts. It's just you know, trying to manage your time and because putting together kind of a higher quality ten minute of log takes a lot of time. So ideally I would love to push out one a week. That's that's my goal this year. Um, but it's it's always a challenge, so I think that's just Yeah. I just go to YouTube and typing my name Stephen Drake and vlog and think you'll find it there. I also link them generally in my Instagram posts. Yeah. Well all those links are in the notes right now, so if you're listening to make sure and go check out links to Steven's Instagram and to his YouTube v log. Um. I guess be careful head in to Hawaii, man, and I appreciate the time, dude. Thanks, Yeah, I'll be uh. I will literally be a fish out of water in Hawaii because I know mountains and like hard land. You put me out on the walk. Well, sorry, We're gonna go spear fishing on one of the days. So cool, which is super cool, which I'm I'm a little nervous about, but also excited because it's just always fun to do new, totally different things that kind of puts me out of my element. So yeah, are you are you gonna take a waterproof case and take some pictures underwater? I am Yeah, dude, that's awesome. I can't wait to see him. Man. Well, I appreciate it, Stephen. Thanks for thanks for your time today, man, and I'm sure we'll be talking sane. Yeah, guys, thanks for roasting me. I really appreciate And it's fun, the fun, the chap. So thank you. An see, we'll see your take care. Let's go pick some sheds. Dude. The whole time he was talking, I was looking at this bucket of sids right over here. My god, it can somebody just go throw those out in the woods so I can find them and I'll just be so happy and just you know, ignorantly bliss. That's a giant's dude. Most of these were found in one trip. When that trip that you talked about, Dude, that doe that with that split on the on the tube, we almost would like touch that three. Yeah if the three one broke off, that's pretty cool. Yeah, he's got a good Brown Town stuff and smoke that dude so many times. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Anyways, anyway, so I'm pretty jacked about it. Like I know that we get down about the ship hunting and in our state and like the well at least in certain parts of it, and it can be tough. But I had a pretty good year last year for around here. I found like nine ships, Yeah, and I found like zero. Didn't you find one already? I found one last year before you ever found one, I think, did you? And then you just went nine nine zero? Run there? Dude. You know, I was looking at that shed that we found this year while we're hunting up north, and that's definitely the biggest ship that I've ever found, and it's kind of like a co find. Try to think about that one, the one you probably plays, Oh yeah, that one, that's what. Yeah, Yeah, it's pretty big shed. Yeah that was You don't have great time length, but dude, just masks three were good, weren't they. Yeah? They were bigger than this two. Yeah. Okay, So not to get picky about handlers, but I like further to be a natural progression, like the two be the longest. Pretty it's pretty yeah for sure. Just something about deer that have like that shorter too and longer three. It's just I don't get me wrong, I would smoke him seven days Sunday. But just if I have a pick and I don't speak kind of how i'd go. Yeah, I mean, I'm with you for sure, but I'm trying to think two thousand and fourteen, the big broadtown buck. His G twos are shorter than his But dude, that's such a weirdo anyways, Like it doesn't matter. He's freaking awesome. He's cool for sure, And you know how it is to like I say that now, but then like as soon as I see a deer, I fall in love with it, and it would be like, oh, he's the coolest buck effort. Yeah, man, can't you can't. You can't put it down. But me being an observer, it's just like that's what I look at. I know a guy and you know him too. He's uh he's real picky about his deer and yeah he uh he he loves to Like I can tell when he doesn't really like one of the deer that I've shot. Oh, half Frank, is that you're talking about half ran? Yeah? Yeah, so I can tell though, like he's like, hey, like yeah that's a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah he is Uh. But anyway, that's a that's a lot of cool information we got there, and I think that, uh, I'm ready to go. I mean, I really do. I think, you know, hopefully that teenager are living in a small enough core area there that we can we can grid search and like the cool thing he mentioned. And I didn't think about this, but in on X you've got the trails, like the bread crumbs deal. You know. I think you could really help yourself out there. I think so. I think if you and I go in there and like just commit to finding those ships one day, which I'm fine, Like that sounds great. I'm totally down with it. You know, like don't bring guns to shoot hogs or anything. Just go in there and find the ship. We can get it done. I think we'll find we'll learn something something for sure. There's a few spots we hadn't been in there that I think we can or we have, you know, we haven't been in there in a while some too, yeah, and hadn't torn up. So I think, you know something I think that we need to uh consider and I'll learned. We learned this last year and I have seen it happen already this year with the dose in the backyard they're eating buds on trees, and over there in teenagers area, they were eating buds on trees last year. And I think that instead of going and looking, well, not just instead of because you want to do that too, but don't overlook like that spot where they're gonna be feeding at night on buds and trees, which doesn't look like a deer habitat spot at all, you know, But like up there where there's all those you know, young growth trees and stuff, you might need to be looking around up there. Yeah, man, then they you know, if you live in Cedar Elm country, they tend to hammer those right now. So yeah, I be thinking about that. And another thing is like those those trees they'll see albums can grow in like such thick stem count Like I feel like deer can easily knock its horn up. Been there, you know what I'm saying. So, except most of those thickets are like five acres big makes it's not like, oh, this little pocketbut here, you know. And I honestly think that walking through a seed a aulm thicket is harder than almost anything you could walk through. Dude. There's a lot of obstacles and dude, and they just like branches from like one ft all the way up, you know. So anyway, Um, I love iTunes reviews too, In fact, I love getting them. So guys, if you haven't yet, please go over to iTunes leave us a five star review. That make it slightly complicated, but it would be totally worth your while to search the Element podcast and leave us a review because you can't just go to it on your podcast tap, which we know you already have a subscribe. So which if I had the way the podcast app stinks now does it? I haven't updated it? Oh my gosh, can't. I can't nothing, I can't. I don't know what's going on in there. I can't find It's crazy, Uh but yeah, like hopefully you can find that. I'll tell you one thing a lot of people can do is get on Facebook and they can find the Element page or if they're already um, following our page or like our page, you can give a Facebook review there and uh, well we'll forgive you for your you know, abilities or inabilities to get it done on iTunes if you do a Facebook review. Perfect anyway. I don't mean to sound too desperate, but man, it does help us out and uh, you know, we're we're trying to you know, get great guests and put out great content for you guys. So uh it really does help us when we get those encouraging reviews to just know that we're doing the right thing and and uh, you know, helps other hunters, helps the podcast to get in front of other hunters and and help them to learn some of this stuff too. I mean, we need the support to grow. We don't need to be too selfish. I mean, I ain't trying to give you all my spots or nothing, but we got some seak just figured out we need telling y'all. But I really would, I really would give give a few spots to somebody if I had, you know, if I had a spot that uh it was worth giving, was worth giving. Yeah. No, I mean there's like like if I had like ten spots and I knew I wasn't gonna be able to hunt them all any you know which we're working on it, you know, I mean locally at least. So anyway, Uh, guys, thank you for listening, and if you are still listening, you are a dedicated Element listener. Um. I hope you guys, have a great week. And if we if we have the ability to get out in the next week or so, get some cameras checked, get some sheds found, or you know, stomp around. At least we uh, we'll hit you up with a podcast between me and Casey because it's been a while, or we just did one, you know, uh, just you and me so or at least it feels like it. I don't know. I can't only keep up with it. But anyway, thank you guys for listening. God bless you as you go about your ways. Hope you have a great week. And I remember this is your element living it. This is your element living it. M

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