00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store, nor where you stand with on X, I'll tell you something interesting. Umah. A couple of times I've expressed outrage, which you know, that's what Americans do nowadays. It's express outrage all day long. Right, I was expressing outrage about, uh, the fact that twenty four individuals have contacted Montana Fish wildfe Parks so contacted their state game agency to get GPS tracking data on animals, and the state was saying, we have but little option but to give it to them, meaning you could go like they're like, oh, I know a good hunting trick. You contacted biologists who's got Collard a Collard bull and say, hey, I want all the way points. I want to know. I want the GPS tracking data because you're a state agency and so therefore it has to be public information. It's like publicly funded science, so they want access to that. Yeah, and I just outright condemned these people as being horrible people, right, and then following up on that, uh, Jim Heffelfinger, who is a wildlife biologists in Arizona, was saying that in Arizona, just for that reason, we have a some kind of state statute or something that makes it that gives us the ability to provide tracking data. Two people. A dude writes in though, and he says, um on last week's podcast never Mind Act, I don't know when it was. It was recently, but I just got around reading this now. Steve mentions the fact that there have been several requests for GPS collar data in Montana. I am one of those requesters. I thought i'd share a little of why I requested it and what I actually received. He then goes on to establish his credentials as a hunter, feeds his family off wild game. Um, love's wildlife, and he's a photographer and he requested data. This is what he has to say. He requested data for a big bull elk. Somebody knows about a big bull elk or another. He requested data for a big bull elk in a mountain range that is very he it takes a range, it takes a lifetime to draw a tag in that range. So I'm guessing he's talking about the tobacco roots. It's my guess, not a tobacco roots, del corns, old corns. Sorry. Correct. He says he's into this thing. He says, the thing now that you and a guy I know where it got big Rick Prisca Ricks into all this kind of stuff where you set a trail cam in a sweet looking spot and the hope is that you'll get an image of You'll get a trail cam image with some kind of stunning background. And these aren't just like Dick and Jane trail cams like these are. It's like high high end systems, all custom laid out for us. Rick Well, I mean, keep getting close to animals and taking pictures of them unless they're habituated like that's like, that's ricks I should point out to people. That's rich special. I mean definitely unless they're roadside animals that are really used to or on a private ranch or something like that where they don't they don't run away from you. Um, taking taking pictures of animals that don't want their picture taking, it's really hard, uh, and it results in like a document, but not like something that's aesthetically pleasing. So these trail cams you can rig up with like nice lenses and a big system, and how do you keep it all water? It's all like housed in like a little pelican case like a the electronics are housed in there and they have it's like a dude setting a legit camera out. Yeah, like a like a five thousand dollar camera in a box. I wonder if people ever hork because like it's one thing, the hork a trail camera. If you're gonna work like a oh, it's definitely I mean yeah unless you I mean you could easily like I don't know, tie it to something, lock it to something. They the boxes will have like a mechanism that you can lock that box, but it but it consists of something to power that camera for a really long time. Uh. A motion sensor both like a passive sensor that's just catching uh any sort of movement, like a motion sensor you might have in your house to turn on the lights. But then they also have these active sensors where it's like a beam, so the animal breaks the beam at a very specific point because you're like you're wanting to get him like a very specific you know composition. Um. And there's some folks that are I share sharing office with a with a fellow that's super good at it. Ronan Donovan, who's the mug that UM got into that big time And he's the one that got the Mountain lion with the Hollywood sign behind him. Two. Yeah, Steve Winters. Yeah, he's spent like a year, you know, like in his head he's like, I know there's this lion that is in this area and he wanted the Hollywood sign back there. So I mean I think it he had that camera out there for over a year. M hmm. That's what this dude's doing too. Huh. That's what he says he's into. And he challenges me, he goes, you can go look it up online. It's the thing. Anyhow, are you good on that? Rick? You want get into the No, No, that's don't. I had some useful information to add to his point was that he's not going to hunt this animal. That's where we're getting. Yeah, but we're not even the good part. But that's his point. I'll say something about Rick that was good there, just for listeners at home. Have we talked about this. I always I always feel like Rick's gonna know things, And often times I go to him and I'll be like, you know, Rick, Rick knows, and then and then he'll not know it's very true, but he'll say, I have high expectations. Well, I'm good at making up I'm good at making up stuff I don't know anything about. Because you nailed that one. Well, he usually does, but sometimes he don't like the words. Actually that's probably yeah, that'll be like, Rick, how do you pronounce that word in my wheelhouse? There, Steve, that one that's specifically in your other ones. I'll just pretend it's in my wheelhouse, that one that's actually the Let me ask you this about the photography world. What's wrong? What Chris was going to say something? Well, I was gonna say that. Rick often says things, this is the voice of Chris Gill, Rhan Garrett or shared of Mike, and he's wearing the headset. So that's why that's COVID SA. Yeah, that's really long head set. Anyways, Rick, I'm sorry, go ahead. Rick says things with such confidence, even if he doesn't know what he's talking about, that you believe it, which gets him into the situation where you always just defer, You're like, oh, yeah, Rick knows, because even if he doesn't know, he's like, oh yeah, that's that's it. But what adds to it too, is this what's good about it? Is it when he when you like, Okay, if he half knows, he might act like he know knows, yes, But if he doesn't know at all, he just says he doesn't know. If I have I have, just if I have just like ten of the information, I'll bump it up to know. I'll bump that up to like, all right, let me ask you this, Rick, this is a photography ethics question. All right in the wild from wild I have an m f A and we we talked about that axiographics with I'll preface it by saying this, uh when and I want to get back to this dude, but but but this is interesting. Um I was surprised it back up. We just published our The Mediator Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival, which is available now at Amazon. Um I as part of the promotion for that did did this little Walls there was like a small profile of me and Wall Street Journal yea, which is great, great great priests, great piece of inc I spent some time with a photographer who had to take a portrait. Yep, So Kylie and I went out with her to take a portrait and I was and she was very like it took a long time, okay. And she was telling me that in the journal, even if it's just like a human interest piece, she cannot manipulate that image. She said, if there's a piece of hair on her lens, she can't wipe that out. They're like because they will not allow the journal. They regard themselves as a news agency journalists, and they're so strict about not no doctrine of images that they can't even remove lent on the lens any imperfection like you can. They often deliver the final image and then the raw photos that you can compare the two to make sure that that there wasn't any photoshop work done. She can't adjust, she can't post adjust light, she can't even suggest the image quality of it. That's what she was saying to me. So or like you, I might not have the vocabulary to fully explain. She can't do ship and she's taken the portrait. Like I've done portraits for magazines. They do whatever the hell they want. Yeah, yeah, quick, No, it's a it's a whole different deal to be considered a photo journalist. That's yeah, she's a photo journalist. Photographer, so you gotta be real on top of your ship. You gotta wipe your lens. There was some I think there was some big scandals back in the day when photoshop was first coming on, where people would take remove like a post or a signpole that like made the image esthetically not as pleasing, so that there was like I think there was a when the transition to digital happened, there was kind of a there's a bunch of protesters you put into some guns. Yeah you can add yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, not yourself out horrible. Uh no, Okay, that that prefaces my question in the wildlife world, is it bad in the wildlife photography world? Is a bad doctor? I think for the folks consider themselves journalists or like advancing like the science of either conservation or wildlife. Yeah, they don't. They're not messing with images. So National Geographic where that where that mountain lion Hollywood thing came? Not me, not messing with that. It wouldn't fly. If he's like, well, I took a picture of a lion and then put the hollywod and they would I think they would maybe call those photo illustrations or graphic designer. Yeah, it's like go, but there is. I think the public often kind of blurs the two and they're like, oh, look at this amazing picture of a lion, and it's like super manipulated or it turns into it's a form of art. But it's not the same as capturing that animal, you know, in a less doctored way. M But I don't know. I don't know if the public really cares that much. For Christmas, I bought my My wife likes to do puzzles. Yea. I bought her a thousand piece puzzle of a woman. It's sort of like a metal swimsuit in a big axe riding on a dragon. You can tell that ship not real. Um. Probably manipulate a little so UM. And I bought her a crazy puzzle. Is coming out Christmas is and we're fine. I bought her a crazy puzzle. She likes hard puzzles and she has a problem where if she starts the puzzles, she can't go to bed until she finishes the puzzle. Is that a real, it's a real it's a real problem. She started doing a puzzle and everybody went to bed on New Year's Eve, and uh, I like to go bed real early on New Year's Eve, but everyone to bed on New Year's Eve. And she stayed up because she can't go to bed. It's a she's got a puzzled thing. She doesn't she doesn't try to find him, but if she goes, if we like god to stay at a friend's house, this happened to her once. We go to a friend's house and they had a puzzle kind of started. She couldn't help herself but do it. And then I made her undo some of it because it's like they obviously were trying to do the puzzle. She she's a puzzle. She can't not do it. That's that's like you in like a dirty garage, dirty garage. I bought her a puzzle of a dude uh in a giant weed garden stream and weed, so it's all just weed where you get all the puzzles. Oh, my friend Savannah sent me a link because she knows it's my wife's old roommate sent me a link being like like you know, like you always got a puzzle problem. If you're really on a messager, give her this weed puzzle because she won't look at the picture either. She doesn't let herself look. This is gonna take her a million years. She's gonna be like die, She's gonna die of sleep deprivation by the time she finishes the weed puzzle. But the same outfit work I think it's Workman publishing. The same outfit had the woman riding the dragon, so I kind of threw that into the basket. It's warm er, warm er, upper puzzle. Um, Okay, back to this guy, We're sweet. Oh you're still going Oh dude, I haven't got to the good part. Alright, got the preamble, So he goes on to explain his wintertime hobby sort of like Me and seth trapped, Martin's his wintertime The hobby is set in trail cams. Um. He sets them in areas, intentionally sets them in areas with spectacular landscapes. Okay, and it wants to get the animal in the perfect pose. So he requested the data because he wanted to find pinch points with a view to get some really cool shots of some of the most sought out bulls. In the state. Here's what I got from f w P. Okay, So what I heard is FWP had little recourse other than to hand over the data, which I was like, what's the world more on Christmas? Right? So? Um, First I had to file a formal written request along with an explanation of what I was going to do with the data. I'm sure no one believe me. The request went to someone's boss's boss. It took seven months of back and forth to get approval. They did their due diligence. Second, when I received the data, it was in map form, not coordinates. The map was at the scale as to show the whole range, and the dots that signified the location data were large enough to cover several hundred yards. And just for reference, there's one dot per day for every collared animal over a five year study. That's a whole lot of dots, most of which are on top of each other. Third, the maps are broken into three month periods. F w P most have forgotten to give the data from September through November because I only received three sets of maps. Lastly, they threatened me with jail time if I share the data or used it to her asked wildlife in any way. I'm assuming I'm I'm some sort of watchless now and oh the most recent data I received is two years old. Yeah, so f f WP was like, Okay, we're gonna give you the data, but we're gonna make it as hard as we can. Yeah. It goes not to say if I was looking to kill some out, it's not not that helpful. Not that helpful. Yeah, I mean he was looking for some nice little tracks of like he's just trying to find patterns of movement or but is I mean you could just do that. I think he probably, Yeah, he just has to go go out there, hit the ground. Yeah. Probably. It probably helps just giving you like a like, oh, he spends a lot of time here. If he's doing another elk are doing it, you know. Oh, it's like he was looking for an individual, like some monster I recently. UM didn't request it, but I got some I got some information from a biologist that uh was very helpful. And it was I got a map showing the it's it's a big map and it shows it's color coded for habitat quality. So the darker red it is, the better. They regard habitat quality to be for this particular species overlaid on the map or dots showing where kills had been registered. But there's only dot. There's a dot for every section where a kill has been registered, and it doesn't matter if one or a hundred things were killed on that section, the section still only gets one dot. Yeah, so it could be a freak outlier, or it could be like the hottest honey hole of all right, but it's not good for anything specific. But when you look at it, you get a sense of I looked at it. I got a sense of, Okay, where's the good habitat for the species? Um? And the most interesting thing to me about it was that it showed particularly how people were accessing the area, because there are mass areas that were the deepest, darkest red that had no dots in them, and all the dots were along all the dots were concentrated along road systems, and so you could look at it and get a very general sense of like, um, where one might go that's good habitat but not but but likely not getting exploited, like the resources likely not getting exploited in those perfectly red areas that don't have any dots, So like super helpful, super helpful. I mean I feel like that's not like, oh, I got them, now you know what species it was. I got a question that's very simple. That's coincide with all this. So on Onyx, they have the harvested buck and elk reports right boil meal deer buck or white tail buck from two thousand eighteen when you click on the unit to see the rags, and I was like, man, if you were trying to learn the distribution and where those animals were killed, not within the game unit, but they have what that game units was kind of a similar thing where you kindn't know. It's just the numbers, just the numbers, not like dots on the map. No, you can see which unit has like maybe the percentage of Harvard success. And I was like, if you're trying to figure out if you're just going in blind to an area, like I was trying to learn a new area in Montana, and that would be part of but that that's just one part of figuring out is it worth going in in here? There's like, you know, three bucks harvested. You're like, oh, and it's a huge you know, w M A or something. Yeah, but there's a lot of ways to look at that too, like how many tags they give out and that was yeah, it was it was like just another little piece to use. Though. I think the success rates, oh percentage of hunters is extremely helpful. Yeah, yeah, uh if you're if you're looking at like certain limited draw things, then you see the success rates or like eighty some percent and the factor that some people probably even show up, you're like, yeah, yeah, it's gravy. Um. If you're looking at success rates that are in single digits, you kind of like know, you better carve out a little chunk of time. And while all the units I was looking at were just general over the counter units, and it did like it did somewhat guide me on you know, maybe the difference between this unit or that unit to go explore on foot. That's kosher. Right, Oh, that was the question I forgot you were asking a question. Oh of course, man, I don't I want to. I want to say, when we're thinking about the photographer, let's go back to him. It's just that's a lot of like that's good for him, like trying to he's trying to take a a great photo, and everybody takes photos these days, so the only way to separate yourself from the masses is like do something different, and you know you can debate like should he have that information or shouldn't he, but he's at least trying to do something different, which is Yeah, I'm I'm a big fan of people that have a vision in their mind of a photo that they want and they go and get that photo. Really yeah, yeah, give me an example, Um, yeah, what's the what's the photo you want? Seth, Well, here's an example that what's that uh fellow's name? You guys know we're talking about him, know that? That ever? And we're not. So there's this dude he wanted, he wanted he wanted a shot of um, a dude walking like free solo across one of those just like a wire from like two you know, it's a slack line spread between two points. Oh dude, you ever see that documentary about that guy Man on a Wire? Oh my god, that's a good aass movie. Man. You know, it's weird about that hold that thought. I gotta I got solderbergs was Man on Wire? You know that Steven Solderberg film he made with the porn star Sasha Gray. Yeah, what was that movie? Girlfriend experience. Oh yeah, you watched that movie. Real careful. The dude gets the dude gets the prostitute and they're on like there like fake date. They're talking about that documentary. Yeah, it's interesting, go ahead. Anyway, he wanted he wanted a shot of a dude walking on uh line with the moon full moon coming up behind him and he's like silhouetted in front of this giant moon, like e t yah, kind of when they're riding their bikes. Yeah, that's like a very specific shot that someone I disagree with you. It's not like being that being like cool, respectable. I mean, come on, now you're getting into now you're getting into subjective bs man. No, man, okay, you might agree with it because like all the I don't know, maybe I shouldn't. I want to hear you insults set. I'll knock that headset right off. No, I don't want, but I don't want it to sound like I'm insulting anybody's work because, like you know, I don't know. Let's heart's I just like I just it's a safe space. I just find more value in like spontaneous. That's why you do what you do. You like, Yeah, but documentarian shot, but like narrative films, the cinematography, I'm like, Okay, that's fucking rad. But if somebody sets up a photo, I'm like, that's not that cool. But if somebody sets up you know what I'm saying. I know what you mean. No, it's like there's so many amazing photographers that don't have an idea, Like they just have an idea of what they want they go and you know, they have like place and an idea that they're and that's and they have to represent that idea in the photo. That's when you get photos that are like you look at me, like, how the funk did that guy get that? Yeah, it's because he was the right place, right time. I didn't probably didn't have he didn't have specific photo in mind. Yeah, he just happened to you know, like I said, right place, right time. Yeah. I like that because there's just this is great. Um, I feel like I'm back in college. This is a different podcast. But I appreciate what you're saying. You like spontaneity, you like, yeah, okay, Seth like planning. We're gonna have to fight to the death. I wouldn't say that I like planning. More than I just respect it. Like someone has a vision, it's really hard to get that photo. It's not easy, and they go and make it happen. That's a good point. I thought you were going to say you respected the guy because all the work he did to get the information that took some seven months. Here's my question, do you, Steve, do you do you now want to recant what you said or do you want to stand by it. I'd have to revisit what I said about you know, about the people that did this. Well, just like a blanket outrage. I mean you can't. I mean, that guy seemed to be doing it the right way. You can ask a declaration that's not black and white. Listen, No, I'll say this. I love this guy, Okay. I like that you wrote in. I like the throwness of his explanation. I like things where what people think things are one way and it winds up being another way. I like the whole story. All that being said, Okay, all that being said, if I was king of the world, king of the universe, one of the things I would do in my first hundred days in office is I would say that state do not need to release um I do not need to release for Ford, for whatever. They don't need to release, uh that kind of information in that way. Well this isn't there all kinds of other stuff that the government does that we would have no possible way of getting information. I would like to meet these aliens that you have down there in Nevada. They're not gonna let meet those aliens. Yeah, there's plenty of stuff that's held super tight, and we're all freedom of information acts like where's our sealed team six working right now? You''m gonna tell you, but not present time, but at some period classes. So yeah, so so uh, I feel like we've been talking about this way too long. I like the Arizona thing. I like the area. The only thing they don't have to give it away, the aliens thing in Arizona. No, no no, no, no. The fact that an Arizona they don't need to read, that they don't need to issue GPS tracking data or the state has the ability without it being too onerous to like issue a version, to issue a version, and that it wouldn't be like some super reliable thing. And and I'm like a slippery slope kind of guy. I believe in slippery slopes and you can imagine some situation where someone would go and get uh, where someone would go get like very specific data about a specific animal and they give it over to him and it gives everybody. It gives Hunters a black eye, right, some famous moves and he's on National Geographic and whatever. Then also on some some oil tycoon shoots the thing. The data gets out. That's all all right, Jesse tell people, Well, Seth tell people it's got skipped. Jesse, would you tell I want to hear Seths his his perspective on it first? Maybe I'll pass to Jesse. What's the question Jesse to tell people about his his special thing? He's cooking like literally right now, but I got cooking or metaphorically what's cooking? But I want to first have Yeah, okay, explain the dish you're making. Where you take the you know, basically the leather. You take the leather off the outside of a rib cage of a deer of deer's rib cage. Yeah, basically everything south of the loine, the backstrap, from the from the ribs all the way down to the belly the stern hum take that off in one big rectangular piece. You can either stuff it wanna. You're not getting to the nearly the level of detail I'm looking for. Okay, tell us, tell us where it starts, where it ends east and west. You gotta skin. Got a skinned out here. It's hanging behind legs up. Um, Well, let's know it's put it on the table. It's it's horizontal. Uh. We're gonna take the front legs off right at the shoulder blade. And that's basically exposing that whole side. And when you say that, you mean because I I got scolded for doing this wrong. Oh yeah, don't don't cut through the cartilage of the shoulder blades. Yeah, Like like when you strip it. When you take the front leg off, when you're doing your butcher and you take the front leg off, you're cutting clean to the bone on the inside of the leg. Anything on the the outside of the leg stays with the shoulder. The inside of the leg is clean, right clean to the bone. So all that meat that lies under his armpit, right you want to leave that stays on the carcass. Okay, Yeah, and then about probably four or five six ribs back. You know, you don't have to get too scientific about it, kind of draw a big rectangle, go all the way down to the hams where the kind of that flat meat is past the ribs, and you take that all off in one piece by running your knife real clean against those ribs and try not to get any holes. If there's holes, it doesn't really come out laying. You're like flaming it, flaming the meat off. Yeah, you know, a smaller dough or something that could get real tricky because you're not gonna have a lot of meat to work with. It could be half an inch thick there, but you just take your time and you get that whole piece off and it's a rough rectangle, maybe a parallelogram. And then you mean, you say, a half inch that's just not a quarter inch thick in places? Yeah it could be thin. So but on a bigger, bigger buck, like saying the one that clay shot, it's a little bit easier. Uh for listeners at home, they just almost fist bumped. But but I think are both of our collective wingstands are just short of I wasn't going to commit fully to it. I didn't want to distract you. Yeah. Uh so yeah, and then you take that and you can you roll it up from top to bottom, bottom to top, and you got the grain running horizontally through there, so you can stuff it, you know, like the recipe in my first book where we stuff it with sausage and bread crumbs and egg. Make a little stuffing out of that and roll it and then you you cook the hell out of I'm a backup, backup, sir. You gotta meat cheat a meat sheet that's like cardboard thick at the thinnest ye and and yate what dimensions eighteen inches eighteen by twelve, eighteen by twelve meat sheet of stuff that people would normally feed to the coyotes. Not normally many would feed it to the coyotes. But you gotta meat sheet towel by eighteen You then lay that out flat and get specific with what I watched you do. Yeah, well you're gonna make your I mean what we did, but we got cooking right now. We we put some bacon down, put some mustard down, we put some pickled halle penios and some onions. So basically that's a kind of a takeoff of German rulot, where they would be the same thing, but instead of pickled halle penios, it would just be like a kirk in or a corner shawan still pickle. That's a good idea, man. Yeah, they put some sar kraut in there. You can do that, I mean, don't. I mean, this is just you gotta thank Germany for that one. It's not me, but it's it's delicious and it works with you know, as I'm sure you know many different animals. And then you just roll that up like a little piece of firewood, yeah, into a into a log, and then tie it off, you know, use some kitchen twine, go in and just tie it every two or three inches. Yeah, it wants up being a roll the size of a nice wall. It looks like a backstrap. Roll up looks like it looks like a back strap. Yeah the nice wall, I metaphor is probably lost on us. Nice backstrap, nice backstrap with little chunks of halloeen. This may be too difficult to explain, you know, just with audio. But he spaced out his ingredients in a specific way so that when it rolled it, the ingredients fell in the right place. I noticed that, Like, yeah, they were. They're kind of in like a mound. Like you didn't you didn't spro like a pizza. It wasn't like a pizza topping that was spread all the way across. You had two rows separated. Remember how he did it wrong and then changed his mind and did it right. Yeah, any any rolls. The longest part is where the role You roll it? Well, you roll it from the twelve inch part. Help me here, Yeah, you roll it from from top to bottom the eighteen twy So the thing ends up being eighteen inches long. Yep. So at this point, folks, Jesse has taken a knife and he has flayed away all of the meat that sits outside of the ribs, plus flank and plus up into the shoulder a little bit, and made a meat sheet. Then he rubbed mustard. No, he puts salt. He laid it out flat, put salt, He put pepper. He put on a glove and rubbed mustard all over some bitch. He put down bacon strips, He put down pickled hollow penos, he picked, put down onions, raw onions. Then rolled it up into a little backstrap shape like a giant twinkie. Would that be a jelly roll? A giant jelly roll? And then tied it using that special little tie off rose tie if not, And then there it is, and we held it up commented how it seemed like a fish or you held it a lot. I picked it up four times, multiple times. I would set it down and go back and pick it up again. I liked it so much. That's a nice Waite threatened to slap clay with it. Talked with give him a meat slap um, okay, and then then you're gonna do what uh We We took a big Dutch oven and got it hot, and we browned it off on all sides, and then just threw some onions in there. You threw that really good talent in there too, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can definitely use bear fat for that, yes, And and browned it off real well, then threw some onions in there, and then I just covered it with stock and uh I put a little can of tomato in there too, And it's just sitting out there similaring on the fire. Probably needs to cook for about six hours. That's key. You don't want to undercook that thing because it will get a nice and tender and the beauty of the the grain runs horizontally on it so that when you come in and you cut the string off of it and go and just cut it like you would logically, you're cutting it against the grain, and so it should be supertender. Does it stay together and look like a little cinnamon roll. It'll stay together a little bit. Now if you've follow the recipe that I have in my book where you make this stuffing out of sausage and bread crumbs and eggs, it stays together real well because that egg and the protein and the sausage really binds it. And you get this kind of roll situation. So it's a little and it's bigger because you're putting way more bulk in there. But I kind of want to just you know, play with a little bit and just try some different stuff out with it, like it's this is less stuffing, So I guess absolutely, Huan. Don't get me started on crock pots. I love them. You know what we were indo for a long time a long time ago, meat sheets. No, uh, we were into I'll tell you about this thing I bought. I have one of those funnels and then you get the mad net like imagine that. I don't know if they still do this like now. No, when I was a kid, my mom would bring home like, oh, pot rolls from the grocery store. There would be in a net. It would be like an inexpensive cut of meat in an elasticy net. I bought a huge role of that net on Sausage maker dot com, and I bought the funnel in the funnel change. It's like a change. It changed the shape to accommodate whatever you shove through it. You stick the mesh net over the end of the funnel, and then you cram whatever meat you got. Or like, let's say you make a pheasant. You want to Brian and smoke a pheasant. You take the pheasant legs and wings and ships sticking out every direction right and shove it down through that funnel and then he pops into that stretchy net and then he just all trusted up, really pretty. It's like when you when you wrap up a Christmas tree. Exactly. It's exactly like bringing a Christmas tree home. Good job, seth. I've never had a net. They didn't do that for Garrett where Garrett lived grown up, they definitely didn't. It's a thing though. It helps you help. Yeah, okay, so exactly like a Christmas tree. It's very nice. I don't know why I got away from it. I still keep I still have the thing in my meat closet. Uh, well, good does it do? Like? It just freezes it like in this nice tight shape. It's it's just it trusses everything. But can you cook it in that net? Oh? Yeah? Okay, so you cook it in the net made? I don't know it's it's cotton, but there's something in it that gives it an elastic quality too. It's food. Great, you know what I'm talking about? Jesse. How how am I telling you about a thing you don't know about? Easily? Okay? So uh yeah, but I feel it with like food stuff, like based on your career, you do like you're always like oh yeah, like I feel like, I mean, we can't go too far into it. But there's like this, there's there's geographic differences in in in meat cookery, like in the in the North, there's like a lot more You're really focused on the roasts. Uh and like like I rounds, how is it a roast? When I say a smoke duct or a smoke pheasant? Well you were you were saying that originally, like you would get roast. I haven't told you that story yet, so I'll tell you now, okay, we would we were into this, we would take a bear ham okay, and cut the bear off, cut the ham off at the ball joint, and cut the bear's ham off at the knee. Then open it up on the inside of the leg and cleanly remove the femur. Okay, then Bryant, Okay, then and you want to put it back. Now it's like laid out like a big thick book. Right, dry it off, Bryan it, rinse it, dry it. Then this is what this is the part I'm asking about. We would take gelatin, just reggul old gelatin, powdered gelatin, and sprinkle powdered gelatin all over the inside of that ham. Then roll it up and shove it through the funnel into the mesh. Then smoke it. Once you got done smoking it and it cooled, you could remove the mesh and you had a football that was a boneless, smoked bare ham that you could slice and it would mostly be glued together. You know about that? I mean that sounds effective, you like, but also for like applause after that, good job, Real innovatives, real innovative. No, we didn't come up with this. It makes makes you buy all the parts at sausage maker dot com. Yeah, why what's the U R L right there? Man? I wish Why wouldn't you use other foods um like Jesse did in the meat slapper sheet with the bear roast. Why would you use that that jail stuff? Yeah that was only two okay, because here's the problem. You'd open it up. What are you doing you? You'd open it up? And um, see, it threw me off. I'm like, I look whever. He's not even like remotely engaged, does not even remotely engage what I'm talking. You should have said, I'm looking up sausage sausage you're dot com or whatever. He doesn't have a headset. It's like, what's a fellow I'm supposed to do? Yeah, it throws me off. Man. If I can't even hold the attention to people that are sitting friends of mine that are sitting in the same room, my god. So anyways, he um flustered. Yeah, opens it up. And what Normally when you do this, if you make a boneless smoked if you want to make a boneless smoked wild game ham, when you slice it, it just falls back apart again. And this was a way to try to get it to hold together. What do you think when I tell you that, yes, it sounds great, you don't judge it? What what would I? What part would I judge? It's effective and delicious, and I mean, I think it's cheating these the gelatine I'm asking. I'm asking you as a professor said I was cheating when I was baker. No, I didn't say that. I asked you what you're feeling was about? Uh okay as a professional shop and a wild game enthusiast and all point I've said it for I think that you like, Um, you're my favorite wild game show. Thank you, Jesse Griffith. Uh I was surprised to see you put bacon on because um, people went down like a wild game bacon black hole or maybe it's used as a crutch. Yeah, it's like wrap the tender loin and bacon everything like bacon, this bacon, that baking, this bacon. But how much better would it be for Jesse Griffith's to make something with bacon? Well that made it, That made it that in my mind, that's hold them like a super high standards. Well you can think about it like how much as bacon allowed people to enjoy their game more. M hm, you know. I mean it's even if it's generous, well, I mean, it's baby steps. I think that collectively, people have come a long way as far as eating game. And if if they got started by wrapping it and bacon, and they're graduating two beyond bacon, then that's great. But maybe they had to start there. You know, they need that bacon to kind of saying out that hard edge of the gamey flavors or whatever it was that they found slightly distasteful about game, or at least make it have a like a a flavor, recognizable flavor, you know, something they're comfortable with. So I mean I think, you know, bacon, bacon and an enabler, a gateway flavor. It's so good. Yeah, like that. I forgot to add, um the in your thing? Did I talk about you put down bacon and the lad Yeah, we should call we should tell people the name of this ruladon ud Yeah yeah. Yeah. It similar to like bin laden with rude. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a South Texas ruladon Um. Okay, Then I asked you about that. Then I told you about the gelat and thing. We weren't sure where you're going with the bearham thing. I just wanted his input. Okay, if this is like yeah, like approval or like that stupid or maybe it'd be like maybe maybe be like here's a better way to do it, or or I'm gonna do that tomorrow. I don't. I love that idea because I mean a boneless ham too, and just yeah and going in and be able to put it on a meat slicer and just get those beautiful slices that don't fall apart. There's a lot of merit to that. Absolutely the bacon thing. I think, uh, I think what you said. I get what you said about it being kind of a crutch, but I mean it's kind of like he said, he said, Okay, it's kind of like hating Lebron James because he's so awesome. I know you won't get that, but everyone else will. Lebron James is the best basketball player like right now in the NBA, arguably one of the best ever, and people don't like him just for that. That is that is the wild That is the bacon of wild game. You know what I heard about Lebron James, heard about What's Up. Someone told me that I don't know the layout of your house or yard or whatever. But someone told me that between your house and something and is archery targets and a basketball whop. And someone said, if they ain't shooting arrows or shooting bags, that's right, man, that is right. I've got one son that's got a tree stands set up like behind the basketball goal. And I've got one son that is like eating up with bo hunting right now, like he's probably bow hunting as we speak. And my other son is uh a really elite basketball player for his age, and he is he is methodical, he has dedicated, he has disciplined. Ain't shooting arrows or shooting bags. That's right, that's right, that's right. Uh okay, So tell everybody about um, Tell about your first pick um and our magical sit at the water hole where I got mauled by a variety of ticks species. Um. So it's it seems it's it's pretty obviously the pigs like the water around here. Every water and you go to is all rooted up. Should we tell people where we are? No one even knows where we are at we are, I can say the ranch can can? They don't care? Go for it. We're we're in South Texas, deep South Texas, um deep in the first home further south, twelve miles from the coast, right, Yeah, we are. We're close to the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. We're so far south that the Gulf of Mexico is east to here. Yeah, that's out south. Yea. Um, we're at We're on the Yatura Hasien the Utura. I think it's more about um. Yeah, it's one of it's one of the greatest places ever. I think it's awesome. Um. But anyway, and there's a variety of b turious this is like a portion of it. Yeah. It was used to be one big ranch, right, and they just got split up over time. Founded in eight Yeah, they registered their cattle brand in the eighteen fifties, three years ago, three years ago. That's doing a great job. Great job. Well, I don't know if Chris is gonna come in, and Chris is gonna come I'm like setting him. I like a story that has a like a like. This is a great setup. This is for people with with who aren't afflicted by a short attention span. Given a lot of praise, and he's not done yet I like to set up. I feel like I'm reading a Russian novelist right now, go on, seth. I'm riveted. So Steve and I set out yesterday afternoon to go look for a pig, and we, um stop this spot that it's like a flooded I don't know if you can call it a pond. It's like grass growing in it. It's kind of like a pond, just like a flooded area. Three dozen uh teal in it. Yeah, a bunch of teal um killed your running around have alina. Anyway, so we we go in there and check the spot, and um tell everybody about the menagerie of wildlife that showed up. I was gonna I was gonna work that in as I fell threw them off. You can't. You can't micro manage that story. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna shut up. So while we set out for a pig, Clay set out for cal Neil guy, try to kill him with the bow. No. Sooner do we get to our our little pond and we see you call Neil guy. So we told Clay about that. They came and check that out. Ended up not working not working out, but um, they as soon as they left. We we had been sitting at the pond for a little bit, just glass and seeing what's coming in. Um, are you are? I don't want to. I know you're doing a great job and you're gonna get to all this, but you are going to get to my uh my sixth cents the pig would show up. I think I said something to the effect of, let's just sit here, and yeah, I got a good feeling about it. Yeah, if Steve had a great feeling about the spot. So uh, Clay and Dirt left and we, um, we just get up to move locations around this pond because Steve had such a good feeling about it, we were gonna stay there. And uh, almost like a premonisim. We stand up to move our move our location and I don't know, we made it fifty yards and I look up and there's a pig standing out in the water and like Yanni's dad conjured him. Yeah, and this is early afternoon's evening, early after we were staring at this pigless pond. We turn away from the pond, look back at the pond and there's a pig in it, in it and he got in there quick. Yeah, and they aided Steve's master radar. That's about it. Yeah, and just yeah, just set up on it, made a poor shot, and then made a good shot. Pig died, and uh we took it back, took it back to the canam got it, and then sat there the remainder of the evening because Steve still at that point felt it was a great spot to sit. So y'all sat there the whole rest of the night got dark. Yeah, Hey, I know Steve thinks you're doing a great job in this story because there's a number of things he didn't tell. Well, there's a big the rest of the evening. I want to know how you feel about this. Where you were you happy? I could I couldn't tell from this story though. No, he's not an effusive man. I was very happy. Not an effusive man. I feel sorry for his girlfriend. Not an affectionate effusive man. Your pump, this is your this is your first hog, this yet, this is Seth. I was stoved board. It had nice color. It's a nice board. You know what they I'll tell you, and I know he's not done, but I'm gonna tell you interesting detail about uh Seth and checking out the scene. I don't know why, but for some reason along half of this pond there's like an old bit of hog wire fence, like maybe at some point they want I don't get it. Just it's like a dead end run down. Oh offense didn't really make sense to me with like what six inch square? Yeah, it's like it's woven wire, but like it at some point it serves some purpose like sheep fence. Yeah, like I think maybe to keep we'd call it hog wire fans. Yeah, you're probably going to clarify how tall that fence was though you're in Texas. Yeah, it was just a cattle fence. It was. It was like a Neil guy damn near step over, well we want everything was coming over. But but the point being my as I was wondering what this was, I think it's a remnant of my guess, is a remnant of someone. Uh, when this water hole is super dry, maybe someone at one point in time wanted to keep stuff out of it. I don't know, I have no idea anyhow. Seth goes over there and finds but there's a big hole in it, and you could come from one direction, but you can't, Like there's a fence block and not dude, good jock, explain this. There's a fence sort of like cutting across like a third of this pond for some reason, that isn't there anymore. Um, and Seth found a hole and and he's like, all that boar came through this hole. But when he hit the boar and it ran, he forgot about his hole. Yeah, and just tried tried getting through the fence, but not where the hole, not where the hole was off from the hole. And now I think about that. We couldn't see that hole from where we were first set up because I remember glass in that fence. I never saw a hole. And that pig was probably while we were staying there watching the pond. He was probably making his way through that hole, but there was just enough stuff to where we couldn't see all overgrown brush one out, but it was where did he when he got hit? He just bam into that fence and then died like right there. Um, So we get the pig got it, And then we haven't even got to the good part. Continue part. Oh, it's the coolest. Yeah, this is a cool part. Um. We we go back to the pond set up for the evening and we're sitting there and all sorts of birds, ducks, A nice white tailed buck comes out, and then um, some have Alina show up and there I don't when we first see him their price seventy yards away or so slowly feeding towards us and uh, just slowly making their way towards us, and this one decides it like he wants to feed basically right where we are. And at one point it was I don't know, four ft five ft from the end of my boot, so you could hear him going. Yeah, even I took your video. I took a video of I mean, you can hear him doing that on the video. Hey, where you put that thing on your Instagram? Yeah? Okay, so at what if the Begames signs at signs Underscore West, you should just do something more simple. I've looked into it. It's just like not too a simple options avail to bully you about your Instagram handle. Yeah, at app signs sign Score West, you will find the Havilina we're talking about going. I'll put it on one of my highlights. Yeah, all the Texas highlights. The best thing is Seth gets back last night and he just starts talking about the Havilina, how much he loves him. Ever, the best thing is what he's smacking his lips. So yeah, as he's feeding towards us, he like eats something, walks through steps, eat something walks through steps. And we observed him eating turkey ships. He is in the video. You'll see you can see like a big white turkey ship, and I'm like, what is he doing that? I was like, what is he eating? Because he's just like love, just luxuriating, Like no, I'm cleaning it up, man. And eventually, like Seth in his video, you'll see his white clear his day, like a white turkey ship and he just walks over and he's like, yeah, just we watched him eat probably five or six piles of turkey ship. Yeah, it's just like that's his that's the good stuff. Yeah. Then I I was thinking. I told Steve was like, if you're a turkey hunter looking for a sign in an area where there's havelna, you might have troubles that he's ruining all the turkey sign Yeah. Yeah, uh no, that was fun. And I was gonna say to you at one point when he was like right off the toy of your boot because he didn't, like, I don't know, we weren't moving, so he didn't. But even when they got down wind from ust, say, he's whatever, he have helena. As you say, aren't that normal? I've seen him like usually really a wary about these, aren't. I mean, I've never seen a havelena that you couldn't like put a little effort into creeping up on somewhere another, you know, because their vision is not great. But these were like especially just like nonchalant. Oh yeah, Jesse's when you got yours, that was yards. Oh yeah, I had a run never mind, not related at all. Very different. They very different havelena. We're holding like dead nuts still. No, I mean I really I shot that havelena and then realized pretty quickly that I could have gotten a lot closer. Oh, I got you. They were. They were pretty ambivalent to our presence, even after one had been removed. Uh. The interesting thing here too, that I found is interesting is that the have elena, which are a native species, and the pigs don't. Uh that they intermingle. Yeah, and honestly I've never seen it until yesterday. Um, when we were you know, you had just shot a pig and a couple more started running and we and I'm glad that we were able to identify because one of those was I have Alena. Have Alena and two piglets, So yeah, they were they were cruising together. Yeah, when I shot my pig, there was halflan there too, But I mean that might have been just happenstance because I mean it's a big boar. I mean, I don't know why they would kind of no, he just happened to show up. But was they're not adversarial to each other. Yeah, yeah, but I mean like pigs and deer don't really congregate together. That pigs usually run the deer off, um if there's like a food source there. But I imagine the hevelins and the pigs maybe tolerate each other. Pigs run white tails off, they will, yes, yeah, usually there was There was three deer with the pig I saw yesterday afternoon, and when the pig came in, the deer became alert and then just mosey away and the pig went right where the deer were just kind of pushed him out. Claim. The next thing I'd like to cover is could you tell people the story of when you were a kid it's a great story. Yeah, yeah, I can. I was, man, I always get nervous when I get on the spot for telling a story that I was with my cousin. We're hunting on public land in Arkansas, and we, uh we found an acron tree that had a bunch of hogs on and I told my cousin, I said, let's put up let's put up two tree stands, and let's uh but two tree stands, let's try to kill two hogs at the same time. And uh we did, and two hogs came in. And the deal was is that he was gonna shoot. I was gonna shoot a big boar if one came in. That was my deal with him, said, if one comes in, I'm shooting a big boar. Because he was he he he didn't have any skin in the game, you know, he was just the invited games. You found the l tree well, and I was trying that My goal was to kill a big hog. And so we found this wide public land in Arkansas, found a wild dropping acorns, pig sign, hang two tree stands in the dark. Set in the stand. Thirty minutes after daylight, a very nice tusk bore comes in. You can see his white tusks. A sal And seven shows about his you know, let's just say they were of you know, decent size. Can you dwell on shows? Show? A show is just a young hog? How have I never heard that word till now? Don't come from the north. Probably we don't have any well yeah, I mean yeah, you could say pig. But a show show O U T. Wait no, no no, no, no, no no, I'm sorry show Yeah s h O T showed h O A T show so real every day, really nice? Four sal and seven shows come in and uh, we've we could have done this a couple of times. Incidental. Why would the boar be with the side that was I don't see that real common She's probably in heat. Yeah, those shows were probably of sized about to be weaned, you know. And so the board comes in, and what you do when you're trying to get a double on a boat kill. It's real interesting because we needed both hogs as we turned just right at the same time. So we both draw and you know, he would go hogs good and I would go wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait? How far a part of these two stands were side by side block off. I thought you were side by side, and so you know, his pig would turn can I uh the old double up the old double up off and leaves that no one get nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so the pig, you know, we we went back and forth probably three or four times, and finally both of them turned just right, and so fuck we we we knew what we're gonna do. We're gonna shoot on three, you know, one two shoot. You know, a guy rode in, um, a military sniper wrote in and they have like a thing they do like you're going like um, like I say red, no if I'm good, I go green. Okay, I go green. You go red if you're no good, And there's a there's a cadence to it. So I go green, you're red, Then you go green, and then it's like I go green red, and then somehow like I go green, I say green, you say green, and then there's a thing and then it's shoot or something to that effect. I can't remember this situation. He was suggesting that for these situations, this situation that is the weak link of the plan. I mean, you know, you gotta have this dial before this works. But we had it pretty dialed, and so finally they turned just right. And I mean, these pigs are like ten yards from us, and we're probably eighteen feet in the air. Maybe maybe look we're probably fifteen ft. We both shoot back. I hit the board right behind the shoulder. I was like nineteen and I can give some archery intail after this. But I hit this pig right where I'm am and right behind the shoulder. My cousin misses. Okay, he misses the south, and uh, you know, my pig does just what you think he'd do. He kind of squalled and just they take off well directly. You know. We're high five, and I'm like, oh man, I'm sorry you missed. He's like awesome shot, you know, directly. And and I told the story yesterday instead it was an hour. It may have been fifteen minutes, some period of time extended. And we hear pigs grunting, and so yeah, we hear pigs grunting, and I go mad. There's some pigs coming back in here, and we look up and it's the south and the seven shows coming right back in, same ones, exact same ones. And so we've already killed. We've already got a big board that we've got to go track and my cousin. You know, he didn't, he wasn't too worried about it. And I said, why don't you just shoot one of those shots and you can just take it home and be good eating. Shoot one of those showts. So he rears back and shoots that showed and he hits. He hits right in the butt. Okay, the pig starts squealing, I mean, just absolute to him. How seth squeal audio experience. Hog has a very you know, they're that's a good. Yeah, pig starts squealing. Pigs starts squealing in a in a in all pigs boar styles have a strong protective mechanism, I mean, like a fight response to protecting they're young. So the sald just starts spinning circles around pig, trying to figure out what's hurting it, you know, and nothing happens. The pig just keeps squealing. Well, finally, I mean we're you know, this is just chaos, you know, and the pig is not going anywhere though directly we hear I hear a noise that I had never heard of my life. Yeah, it was. It wasn't a grunt, I mean, it was an aggressive just that's yea, and I hear something. I hear something crashing up the mountain and I look up and there is another big hog, big teeth, big hair. I mean, just like, holy cow, here here comes another one. I grabbed another era. I said, I'm gonna shoot that sucker. He came in and gave the one of the most awesome displays I've ever seen in the wild, you know, out in the wilderness of a of an animal. I mean, he came in to kill something. He came in to fight whatever was hurting that show. And he comes in bouncing around looking for whatever it is, and I rare back and I just put it right where I did on the other one. Fu fam nails him and he doesn't even run off for a second, like he thinks, whatever's got that show, it's now got me. And he spends circles looking for what's hurting him, and finally he realized something's bad wrong, and he takes off down the mountain. By this time, the show is is is expired. All the pigs cleared out, and me and my cousin are high five, and you know, I was like, man, I just killed two big boars, ten ring them, and he's like man, I got this show. I mean, we're excited that we get out of the tree and I go, Man, which one should we track first? We track, you know, and obviously we tracked the first one that I shot. So we start blood trailing. Good blood from the start, Man, start blood trailing down the mountain, and the and the blood trail starts to suspiciously make a make a hook and starts kind of going back towards the towards the tree stand, and I go, huh, he didn't go where I thought he'd go. And then that blood trail comes right back up to the tree stand. And I shot the same pig twice. That was at eight o'clock in the morning. We go to blood trailing that hog. He made a second loop and almost went the second part of the trail paralleled like that. We jumped that hog alive at three o'clock in the afternoon in a pine thicket. I jumped him and he was probably four yards in front of me, and there was a pool of blood about as big as a tea spoon in his bed. And here here's the here's what you can learn from it. Okay, this was back when the mechanical broadheads were just getting started, and me and Dad were using wasp jackhammers and for white tails they were incredible, incredible, So I was I was shooting a sixty five pound high country uh with wasp mechanical broadheads, which is just a bad thing. Well, because these these expandable heads are designed to give you know, in a in a situation where you're trying to kill an animal with a bow, an expandable broad head opens when it hits the animal, the blades extend and it sucks up a lot of the momentum energy of the arrow. So it it's not it doesn't penetrate as well. You know, two blade broadheads prioritize penetration, Uh, expandable head prioritizees cutting diameter. And so basically I hit that board right behind the shield, which seth and I we all saw the card lige shields that these big boars have, which is the way they protect themselves. When just smacked him, I mean right behind the shoulder. I mean it would have tendering to a white tail, and uh, I got I mean a fair amount of penetration. I mean he ran off with air sticking out of him, you know. Um and uh, but that that shields sucked the wind it out of that broad Yeah, I just didn't get any penetry. And this is a big hog. This is a at least a two fifty pound hogs now, and I had the exact same thing happened on a much much bigger hog when I was seventeen. Did you recover that hog? No, I learned real quick. At three. I had three incidences with mechanical heads and then all of a sudden we're like, oh, you can't shoot those with hogs. So well, last night Clay uh was sitting there waiting. Yeah, pig came to a water hole and he went up and deliberately shot it back behind the shield. Yeah. Well so and we went after dark and found that thing dead I don't know fifty yards. Yeah, you know, somebody asked me today, and I'll to be honest with you, I don't know the answer to it. Why did that pig die so quick? All I know is that, well, the story was is that this pig came into a water hole. We were hunting some nil guy. We had nil goat on the pond that we were hunting. While the neil guy were there, they were out of range and the nil guy are extremely spooky, wary critters, and a pig came walking down to the pond in between us and the nil guy. We decided to do a soft spook on the nil guy because to try to go stalk this pig, because the nil guy I wasn't gonna kill. I just didn't think we'd get to him. And so, yeah, I was getting dark quick, and so I took my hat off and just kind of waved it like this, and those nil guys, you know, saw us, and then we just kind of started moving away from the nil guy and they just kind of trotted off, and then we turned and went just right to this pig and he was just in the perfect spot to be stalked. I got to within probably fourteen yards of the pig. His his butt was facing me. The wind is in my face, and I mean I pretty much just walked up to this thing. I got within fourteen yards of it. On the ground, it turns broadside, perfectly broadside, and uh ah, aimed back at least a foot from the shoulder and just put it right through. I mean, it was I would have thought it got liver, but I'm not even sure that it did. But I mean, how far the pig runs, Steve, he went fifty yards was dead or and dead. Yeah, so what killed that pig? I'm not entirely sure. I mean that because I mean the the from the diph ram forward with lung's heart wasn't even touched. But he went down quick and he didn't bleed a drop. I mean, he didn't even have that much blood in this cavity when we got it him. Kind of a mystery. But did you guys ever figure what killed your big bucks so quick? Is waszard like a theory? Well, now that that one's easier, we can get it, we can talk about. But I mean that was just a cavity shot. I mean, like if you're shooting an animal and you're projectile point of whatever you're shooting is getting inside, you know, on the north side of the diaphragm, which the diaphragm is like the muscle that is behind the lungs and heart that separates it from the gut. If you're poking something inside of there, I think you cut the hoses coming out of the heart. Yeah. With the deer, we're talking about a different animal. Now you hit the lungs too. On the deer, Yeah, I was looking at the long there was. He lost blood blood pressure pretty quick. Yes, he went down super quick. Tell people about the um the I think it's called the Jesse Griffiths to cut three strip boar hide skinning method. Skinning. Yeah, on these big boars where you get down, you know, behind the shoulder where you got that that shield and that high when you're pulling it down, we'll start to hang up and it kind of it'll just it'll stick up at an angle. Explain the shield. It's a it's it's this kind of I don't want to call it fat. It's not Fat's not cartilage. It's this it's very rubbery, dense um subcutaneous layer. And I've seen it up to maybe four inches thick. It's like freaking raw hide. Man. It's like it's tough. It's tough on everything. It's tough on bullets, stuff, on arrows. I don't hand knives. I don't handle enough pigs where I forget about it. Yeah, like every whatever years and I go to skin and boarl, I'm like, holy shit, what is this stuff? Yeah, it's kinds different too. I mean some are worse than others. You see, you can see them like real bad on some and I mean I think a lot of it. Like like Clay was saying, it's like, you know, they fight a lot, and they go head to head, and so they're hitting each other's shoulders with their with their cutters. You know, that's where those you know, when they go when they bump head to head, that's where they're hitting is right there in their shoulders. So they've developed it's almost like a scar tissue. Um it's just very thick, dense. It's I mean, it's like if it was you know, I would like an it to like rubber, like a real thick sheet of rubbers. It's very hard. But when you're skinning it, it's just the high just it makes it stand at an angle. And so if you are if you're looking at the hog, and so you got it hanging by its back legs with its back to you, not its belly, but it's back to you, you separate that high into three strips, three vertical strips, and what that does is take some of that pressure off and then you're able to just skin those strips out individually from the hind legs all the way to the head. Like imagine that you made your gutting incision. Yeah, but then you turn them and do a gutting incision down either loin. Yeah yeah, down the outside of either loin. So now it's like he's slit crotch to throw, but now he's slit like whatever the hill. Yeah, it's like three three sections the left side, the right side, and then just right down the back. Uh you know, along a little bit wider in the backstraps. But I mean it doesn't really matter. It's not a science tip. But what you're doing is just alleviating that pressure a little bit, and you're and then you're able to push down apply downward pressure with your non cutting hand while you're skinning, and just get that knife and just do it stripped by strip. It makes a world of difference. Yeah, it's a lot easier. It's a good trick, you know, for those that want to clean a big boar. It's not not for everybody. But I think all the boars that we got this uh this trip, they seem to be pretty good. They smelled real good. I think they're gonna eat well or any better. Probably that south the skinniest pig I've ever seen in my life. Uh, keep telling everybody about your book, your hog book. Yeah, yeah, it's Uh, can I endorse it first or you gonna endorse it after you tell everybody? I mean, I don't know if you want it doors. I mean, well, I'll say this that, Um, I feel like you you probably this is this is gonna be This is a bold but fair statement. There's probably no one that knows more about wild wild hog cooking, right, there's probably no one that knows more about cooking wild hogs in you. I mean, on the face of the earth. I doubt that. Um, who who I mean, I don't know who that person is. Probably you know, some some old old guy. Because you deal with them. You deal him as a hunter, you deal with him as a professional chef. You buy the sons of bitches, you sell the sons of bitches. It's true. I enjoyed you. I mean, I'm stealing it. You called me the hog apologist. Yeah, I love that. I love well. Yeah, Jesse had criticized one of our pigs, and I'm like, if Jesse criticizes a pig, it's got real problems. Yeah, because he celebrates as I try to make a case for him. I love him. I love those things. That South. I felt I felt a little bad for that South, Like, you know, she was out at noon, and I just I mean, I have a real I have a real soft spot for all animals. I mean I really do. I still do. I get sad. And I felt a little add for that South, even though actively endorsed you killing her. But I just I feel, like, you know, it's like, it's such a tough life to be a female wild pig. I mean, she's down to two piglets, who knows how many she started out with. And I and I'm gonna I'm gonna project this. I assume that you hate the personification of animals, but I'm gonna do this anyway. Um, but I imagine anthro morphs. Yes, yes, So, I mean at some point yesterday, those piglets were like, Mommy, we want to go. We want to go getting the mud by the pond. And she's like, it's noon, we can't go to the pond. And they're like, we want to go, and say finally annoyed her until she went to the pond. I don't think it's actually happened. I don't think this actually happened there. And she goes to the the damn pond. And you know it was I mean strong anthrophis I think that that did happen. Yeah, and they went where daddy Daddy not love us playing on. Maybe he had the pond, and so they went to the pond. And you know, and now they you know, those snotty little piglets, you know, now they're orphans. Anyway, it's everything he's saying. It's so true. They had to go. They just wanted some whatever that was in the mud that well, we tried to get them too, or that. I endorsed that heavily. You know. Uh. In fact, in our pasta last night, we a that was a six pound pig that was in there. Yeah, live weight. Yeah. Uh So, I mean I endorsed the taking of all hogs. I still have a little bit of a sauce PoTA, but I mean back to the notion, I mean, I appreciate that, and I'm I I like celebrating pigs, and I appreciate what they are as far as as a resource. And I think that people they underutilize them. And and uh, I mean I like I said, I think we need to kill um a vast majority of them. And I support that. But at the same time, uh, maintaining some respect for them as animals. That's super important. But I love looking at each individual hog and you know, doing the assessments, you know, and all the boards look good. That Sally, Yeah, she was most drawn down, Uh pig I've ever seen she was. She was just skin and bones. You know how we did the where where you can go to signs Underscore West and see the Heavelina eating Turkey ship under Seth booty. Uh, if you go to at Steven Ronnella, I will post a episode of my new show called Jesse Griffith's Is Your Hog, And it's Jesse grif Is giving Clay a walk through of his hog and what he could expect from a culinary perspective. Now, I like it, and I think I'm getting real good at it, and I mean, well that's that's okay. Well, But to come full circle of the book, that's what the book is about, is that, you know, people will come to me and they're like, what's your favorite recipe for a Farrell hawg And it's I mean, I try not I'm not not trying to be angry or annoyed by that, but it's like that's that's a that's a tough question right there. It's like, well, how big is your pick? Did you just shoot a three hundred and twenty five pound bore or did you just shoot an eighteen pounds show? There's a huge difference in how you're gonna show show or guilt. Uh, it's a big difference in how you're gonna treat those two animals. And I think that a lot of the problems that people have with with cooking, a lot of failures that they have, is because they want to do a one size fits all approach to all those hawks. Therefore, what's your recipe for farrell hog? If there's there's you know, what what does the hog look like? And how can you frame that in a way? So but you're not getting overtly technical or just talking over people, or or just making it just a hassle to discern the qualities of a hog. So we when we did the book, we broke it down into four categories. It's a small hog, it's a medium hog, it's a large sow and a large bore. That's interesting, do different different butchery diagrams? Uh, Well, you know, step by step for all four of those pigs. Like how to break that down? And then each one of those is followed by a substantial amount of recipes that are mostly gonna work for that category of hawk. Now, granted, you can make sausage out of any hog, so but well we did. We try to put the recipes with the appropriate size, and so it's kind of a field guide textbook. So now and people like, what's your favorite recipe for feril hog? And they could be like, well, I just shot a very fatty South. Good best thing you can do, you know, food wise, And then then you can open up the chapter's fatty South, and you know, I think you are the guys that will do when you publish this print is do color coded tabs? We did? You did? I didn't know. I didn't know you had physical print. I mean, it's in the works. When you look at the book, I can't the end pages. You'll see the different what's the title of the book? The hog Book? Pretty apologist but now it's thought out yet we're still we just like you gotta tell everybody about this whole deal to Yeah, we launched kickstarter. We're self publishing it. So we did a Kickstarter. Um, we reached our goal. Um, took us eleven days. We got there. Yeah, so what do people need to do now to support I'll point out this Jesse got torn. COVID has torn Jesse a new one, Yes, sir, I mean I haven't got the COVID. But saying in your business, the situation has been rough. Yes, yeah, like you had you had a restaurant, you had to shut a restaurant down from COVID lockdowns. You had like greatly like basically almost closed your other restaurant except for some outside dining. It's just been a wreck. Yeah, but you're plowing ahead with this book, which is good. You know, I think we're gonna be okay. You know, we're just we're just fighting it out, you know, and uh, I'm just hopeful at this point. But yeah, I mean the book has been in the works for literally a decade, Like we have been working on this ever since we published the first book. We had actually started work on this prior to that being published, and that came out in two thousand and twelve. So so the Kickstarter deals, people could kick down and presumably they get a book when it comes out. Yeah, there's different packages. There's one book, two book, three books, there's you know, we sold a butchery class. We sold there's hats, some nice first Light hats with the Hog book logo on them. Where can they get that head? I had a guy messaged me yesterday about your hat. The Kickstarter. Now, I mean, just because we met our goal didn't mean we can't keep going. Definitely would like to keep going. So can people at this I don't know when we're gonna releases soon, presumably people can still go support the book and get the book. Yeah, I think we've got maybe fifteen twenty days left on the Kickstarter. So then what do they do? Can they pre order? Uh? Well, probably won't have pre orders ready until we physically print the book, So there's nothing people can do right now to help Kickstarter. And then got a Kickstarter you said you're gonna shut it down. Well, the Kickstarter shuts itself down. We have forty five day campaign and I think we're we're probably thirty days in if I remember correctly. Uh. And then after that, I mean, we're going to get the book printed, and so it should be available and we're self distributing everything and self publishing, and so should be available around March. Fingers crossed and then they can do it. Then we've got there's websites and stuff, and so you can contact us the hog book, the hog Book may yeah like that damn book. Yeah, Yeah, it's pretty cool. I'm proud of it. Hundred and fifteen recipes, there's pretty a lot of good pictures, I guess. Well, so I'm partners in this book with the photographer who did a field and so he and one of the great things about self publishing is that we get to do whatever content we want. Well. First off, self publishing enables us to do any kind of gore that we want, like I mean, for lack of a better term, to show what really what's happening in butcher in process, absolutely I mean, and then without any kind of editorial issues, like if I want a picture of skinned out pig's head in there, it's going in yeah. And then but also speaking to that, we can put as many photos in there as we want. And the picture I want to see what I want to see, a full, full vertical, full vertical picture of you with an apron on holding that big that big butcher knife you've got in your mallet, standing beside a big half skinned wild hog with like a cool background. We're bringing fullion. That's the vision of the photo right there. If they yeah, I already took that photo. Yeah, can you make this whole I'm getting stressed out about something. Can you make this whole Kickstarter thing? Like keep going or something other thing? Keep going? Because no one's gonna be here's the thing. We're wasting our breath because people are gonna remember to go buy the damn book in March. Well, I mean, they'll be more promotion. We'll get back in front of people, they'll be able to pre order. He's not doing pre order. We're not not yet. We're not set up for yet. But after Kickstarter you'll do pre orders. We will get set up for that. We we kind of want to have the book and like physical, can you do this? Can you can? Never mind? I mean, we're gonna do some promotional stuff with first slow I'm trying to think here. It's like I feel like that people should well hear this and they want to go buy the book, but they're gonna get screwed because they're gonna go to the kickstar thing. It's that gonna beyond. They're gonna forget. March will come around. They won't buy the book and it won't be good for anybody, and it won't be helping you out. Well, we just have to get in front of him again, which it'll happen. Set a reminder on your phone. Listen if you're there at home, Set a reminder on your phone that says, by Jesse's book come March, or just go right now to Kickstarter if you've still got if this comes out in time, that's what our schedules like. It's not going to How do you know. I just heard the one we did last week was coming out in January four, but I have already been already texted Karin Special Powers right now. I'm like, I don't care what we got going on. We gotta get this out for the Kickstarter deal. I love it. Yeah, yeah, I mean better we do on Kickstarted, the more we get printed in the first run, So that's I mean, it's a good deal. We can probably get maybe ten tho copies printed the first run. You can buy that hog book, Steth. Yeah, I'm gonna save all my I'm gonna save all my hog meat for when the book comes out there. I know the hipsters in l A do not have that hat yet, Oh, please tell me. So I met my uh fancy wine shop in l A close to where I live, buying a couple of bottles of natural wine. And I'm wearing a first light hat, the one you're wearing right now on the shoot. I don't have a hat on well, the one you were were you trading me? But the Burgeries hat? Oh? Also, you're not getting this Burgeries hat. That is a lie. You can have his hat, no, but he can forfeit. This looks good on you, Chris. I'm gonna get me, but I do like the first my kid took to wearing. Clay sent me a cameo beargrease hat, and that beargrease hat my kid took to take in my cameo burgrease hat. Um, and in my first light bargrease hat. I like that, And there was one right there. It caught on so much at his school he's in, he's ten. It caught on so much at his school. He got on my phone in texted Clay because he needed three. He needed two for his hunting buddies at school and another one for his teacher. He's putting orders in. Yeah. So then I was like you and the teacher wanted. I was like, you better be awful, admired his uh his his fourth rightness. He just you know, he said. I can't remember how he addressed me. I think he said, hey, this is and he said his name, and he said Steve's boy. And then he wrote this pretty articulate description, concise but articulate, of why you needed three burgeries. Hats what you got significant percentage of the kids at his elementary school or bargaries and the teacher. The teacher has one he needed, true for his buddies and one for his teacher. Wow, it didn't that right, I don't I don't recall. Maybe I'm wrong either way. Anyhow, So there you are in your fancy wine shop. Oh yeah, yeah, so I'm in my wine shop. I'm wearing that first light hat and yeah, this very one, that very one. And I asked him I was in there because COVID they got it all shut down. You can't go in it. And you just tell him, yeah, you yell into a guy and I was like, give me. He like, I was like, you got any orange wines? And he brings me to I was like, which one is more blue collar? And he thought that was funny. Then he I got a good wine. Get that you like that right though? The natural wine orange wine, natural wine, which one is more blue collar? Yeah, that's solid. It's a good cause I thought it was too. He's like, neither, No, he was like he was strayed very far. Anyways, he sees the first light hat and as he's like bagging up my wine, he's like, you don't often see a first light hat in l A. And I was like, oh, yeah, are you a hunter? Like do you hunt stuff? And he's like, yeah, a little bit of small game this and that. I was like, oh that's cool, man. Yeah, I sometimes work on the show mediator. If you're familiar sometimes all the time. He's like, oh, I fucking love meat here, man, I love it. The point of the story is youa fans everywhere like Chris huh. Sometimes all the time. Whatever. I didn't want to. I didn't want to sound distance yourself from it. No, no no, no, do I wear that hat all the time? Yeah, you know, I just don't like something like I want to feel that you're distancing yourself. That was his first stop to telling you that he's going back to the puppets. No, I wear two hats. I wear that hat or I wear my other, which is a Metator logo on a first light cameo hat. It was the only two hats. Now it's gonna be a third. And then when I get Jesse's hat. Dude, I'm getting collection here. It's a good ship. You may have heard. I've been doing well on hats, not doing so good on the income. But I got hats, all right, Everybody go by, Uh, well, I don't know. In March, Come March. Shut the reminder on your phone, go by. What's the book called the hog Book? The hog Book by Jesse Griffiths. The Hog Book by Jesse Griffiths, photographed by Jody Horton. That you did the field. I'm looking forward to the Beard Award for a field did not. You got nominated. Some British guy wrote a book about fruit. He beat me in my category. But it's like, is he a farmer? What's he have to do with fruit? He just wrote a book about fruit cookbook, Dude, I'm sure what was the saying. It says like, oh, there's a thing called fruit girls entrees. What more do I have to say? That's the book. I'll take a nomination page everybody else. Yeah, that's a real big deal. Um, all right, thank you everybody shut her down. Cut