00:00:00 Speaker 1: Programming is an art Like it's an art form go and it's something that like I get frustrated with a lot, but like I deeply appreciate after being in the profession for ten years. It's like I'll still you know, I'll still spend four hours, like I spent four hours doing Bryce Bryce Harper's program, Like last weekend when I was in Austin. 00:00:19 Speaker 2: And I was like this, I'm like, why is this takesafe? Like because your care you can't. 00:00:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, you want this to be perfect for every athlete that you you know that you come. 00:00:27 Speaker 2: Across out here. 00:00:32 Speaker 3: The stakes are real. Effective preparation starts with fitness, but it requires so much more. This show explores the tools, knowledge, resilience, and skills needed to be ready when it matters the most. Join me Rich Browning as we apply the decades of wisdom I've gained through training and competition to hunting in the back country. This is in Pursuit brought to you by Mountain Thumps in collaboration with Mayhem Hunt. Guest Shane Wallen, former strength coach for the Detroit Tigers as of very recent Chicago Cubs before that, San Francisco forty nine Ers before that, played. 00:01:17 Speaker 1: At Oregon Football even Browns before that, okay, and then played FOOTBA at Oregon State. 00:01:22 Speaker 3: Oregon State, got it. I missed one in there. Then we got Angelo, what are your accolodes? 00:01:28 Speaker 4: I just work here. 00:01:31 Speaker 3: Angela programs here so I don't get fired. Yeah, Angelo programs all Mayhem hunt for us. 00:01:35 Speaker 4: Yep. 00:01:36 Speaker 3: He's literally been working out with me since he was thirteen. Yep, and he's twenty six now twenty six, so we worked out together. It was like old times. Yesterday. 00:01:47 Speaker 5: I was just telling them that, like that workout we did was just so inappropriate for me. 00:01:52 Speaker 3: I shouldn't have done that. 00:01:53 Speaker 5: No, no, no, just we don't have to talk about it. But it is just funny that I could probably do double the amount of bar moss ups. I can of strict hands and push ups in one unbroken sat and they can do fifty. 00:02:06 Speaker 4: I could probably do thirty handstand push ups. It says. 00:02:11 Speaker 5: I was like, I was thinking about that winter finishing. I'm like, this isn't the right reps cue, this is wrong. 00:02:16 Speaker 3: We did a little workout in the back the last minute thing, so how is how does that workout with you and Watkins? It was good Angela sent me one this morning that was, uh, every four minutes, there was thirty j j D's. I went fifteen bench with one fifty five. We were just talking about the twenty four hour run we're gonna do, so I need to start hitting one fifty. 00:02:34 Speaker 4: Five just for some reps. 00:02:35 Speaker 3: And then the sandbag clean We did ten sandbag cleans with the one sox. 00:02:39 Speaker 4: That's that's the whole workout. 00:02:40 Speaker 3: Every four minutes you did thirty fifteen to ten. 00:02:43 Speaker 4: And it was just sandbag cleans. Is the artist part. They're just like kind of slow. 00:02:46 Speaker 3: Yeah. The last couple reps of bench just fatigued you enough to like pick up that sandbag was not and the Jolone sandbags one fifty but they're the Josh Malone like. 00:02:56 Speaker 5: Oh packed tight. They pack them tight. You can't really get a good grip on it. It's like you're literally a stone, like it's a strong man stone. 00:03:03 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:03:03 Speaker 3: Mine up here have enough reps that they're still probably like one maybe like and they you can grab onto him. 00:03:12 Speaker 5: The one in my house is really sloppy and I actually waited to add some sand to it. 00:03:16 Speaker 4: It was only like one forty three and. 00:03:17 Speaker 3: It felt really we chuck some rocks in the ones here. 00:03:22 Speaker 4: Have you talked about the twenty four hour run challenge? 00:03:24 Speaker 3: No? So, yeah, we were just talking off camera, Shane. Shane's like, you guys are gonna talk to me? Yeah, so sorry, you're invited if you want. Actually, if you're in town in March and you can find a friend, we're gonna do. 00:03:35 Speaker 4: He's gonna scour his phone looking for I'm busy. 00:03:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I gotta go. 00:03:39 Speaker 2: What can I plan give me for the next seventy two hours? 00:03:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, March twentieth, but I do six pm to six pm. We're gonna do a twenty four hour run walk. It's gonna be a lot of walking where you've got six miles or sorry, you got three miles this side, three miles this side, and we'll rotate between a partner's one partner does trail A, partner two does Trail A, then Trail B Trail B. However, when you finish, there's gonna be I told Matt Johnson that this is like the true hybrid I don't know, maybe I'm trying to talk them into it true hybrid event because we're gonna throw bench in there after the run. So you gotta come in here. 00:04:21 Speaker 2: You get one. 00:04:22 Speaker 3: Set of max reps. As soon as you lay down touch the bar, it starts and it has to be unbroken. And then one five or seventy five. We've had a couple of endurance athletes that get upset anytime we have, yeah, make it to where they We basically scale them out of the weight, so you get a half rep if you use seventy five pounds. And so we're trying to figure out, you know, you and your partner accumulate reps throughout the twenty four hours, and how many reps should count as a full lap. I'm thinking around two hundred, one hundred and fifty to two hundred. We've done it a couple times with the mountain bike, a twelve hour mountain bike. 00:04:59 Speaker 5: And it needs to be a little unreasonable to keep it a running race, but still an opportunity for the guys to bench. 00:05:06 Speaker 3: Exact make up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, if you want a well rounded test, you know, yeah. 00:05:12 Speaker 2: The only thing that would convince me to do this is the bench. 00:05:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, see exactly kind of enticed. Yeah, yeah, you had me, you lost me, you got me back. 00:05:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna be pissed for most of it. But when I get back and I get to bench. 00:05:24 Speaker 3: We actually we actually did a couple of times. You got one set of Max dumbbell bench into max se strict pull up. Oh yeah, but that just turns into a judging nightmare. So we're like, I was just stick with bench. I mean, I did like to twish pull to like you know, even out, but I'll probably just do some pulling accessory in my forty minute rest. 00:05:43 Speaker 5: Uh without any prompting. This was we've had. We're like split on this. Would you rather do something like he said, we're going six pm to six pm? Oh yeah, would you rather do like six am to six am or six pm to six pm? 00:05:55 Speaker 4: And why? 00:05:55 Speaker 5: Because I have a solid reason why it. Scott has a solid reason why he likes his version. 00:06:01 Speaker 1: I personally like i'd train in the morning, So I'd rather do six am to six am. I feel like that's when I get my best training. I'm most like Nora muscularly ready to go, ready to go, I'm most mentally locked in like that, Like those are like six am to eight am is my uninterrupted part of my day, where like I don't set meetings. Everyone knows I'm not available because that is when I'm taking care of me, and that is when and I used to be an evening when I was in the NFL, I used to train in the evening because I had to be there at five in the morning, and then I didn't get off till like eight pm, and then I would train from eight to like nine thirty, and then I'd go home and wake up and do it all over again. But I've changed my tune a little bit now being in baseball. I'm way more of a morning guy and I feel way more productive throughout my day if I train early, so long winded, but I would rather do it at six am. 00:06:51 Speaker 3: Podcast. 00:06:51 Speaker 4: Yeah, we both. We both like the six pm I d I think Scott hates it. 00:06:56 Speaker 3: Scott hates it. We've done a couple of twenty four hours. We've done one where you started seven am. We've done one where you start at noon. Not our doing of starting at noon. That's when we do. It's a mountain bike race in Amarillo that we do every year. We wanted to try the six pm to six pm. Only it's not a performance thing. It's like, hey, when I finish at six pm, I'm going to go to whereas usually if you finish the twenty four hours at seven am, that you not only lost one day, you lost a whole another day. To Scott's point, you're going into it after a whole day of whatever you have going on. But we're just gonna roll with it. 00:07:34 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I feel like twenty four hours, it's gonna winning it for sure. 00:07:41 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that came up too, because we were just clearing some trails and so I was thinking about changing the route a little bit. But I think Scott, we go, we keep it the same as the mountain bike. You down, bail up, up, the up and switchback. Would you just say down, bail out, switchback. 00:07:56 Speaker 5: I think there was I think you had a seizure for a second. Maybe I or something I didn't. 00:08:01 Speaker 4: I was like, what's he saying? 00:08:05 Speaker 5: What is what I'm excited about is to make you angry during this podcast because I'm gonna probably ask him questions. 00:08:13 Speaker 3: With terms ya here we go. 00:08:15 Speaker 4: He hates and I'm listen, I'm an idiot. 00:08:19 Speaker 3: All right, here's the deal. 00:08:21 Speaker 2: Like you, what was your degree? Exercise and sports science? 00:08:25 Speaker 3: Okay, strength coach for several years, these guys like to church it up so much so that it's like, uh, let me do a give him a. 00:08:35 Speaker 5: Okay, Like, if I want to do I'll write in for accessory, it's gonna be anilateral neflection or something something along those lines. 00:08:43 Speaker 4: Or I want to do I want the workout to be. 00:08:45 Speaker 5: Coreflexion focused or whatever I want the or I want the workout to be like a heavy hinge with an odd implement. 00:08:53 Speaker 4: And he doesn't like those terms. He likes CrossFit terms. 00:08:55 Speaker 3: I like, not even cross the terms, just movement. 00:08:58 Speaker 4: Like like like sandbag clean or something similar. 00:09:00 Speaker 1: Said Yeah, I honestly, I personally I would I would side with rich because my athletes are gonna look at that and go, yeah, nilateral neflection. 00:09:09 Speaker 4: They're gonna go, yeah, see this is the thing. That's the point. 00:09:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, But that you want them to feel like they have to come to you, that's. 00:09:15 Speaker 2: No, like, no, it's it's it's an ego thing. I I'm smart that these guys. 00:09:20 Speaker 5: No, no, no, that's where it's not I want them to look at they go. It's not that I want them to look and think this guy knows what he's doing. Actually, actually, yeah, that is a little bit of it, but it's not for an ego thing. I want them to think, Okay, hey, I trust this guy. He's kind of smart actually kind of knows what he's talking about. I don't need I don't need like the ego part of it. Just like, okay, all right, I trust It's only been. 00:09:41 Speaker 3: That way in the last one probably year. Scott previous to that, he hated all that stuff. 00:09:46 Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no, no, I didn't know. 00:09:49 Speaker 6: Any of God, yeah, he was definitely on your side. 00:09:53 Speaker 3: He's been locked in the office with Lockert too long. Lockert has a he's a pet has a petre, So of course he's gonna like this stuff. And I get it, but I'm just. 00:10:04 Speaker 5: Well, it just it just seriously, it just leaves the door open for like, and I just use it for me, and I don't use it for them. I use it for me to where like that way I can kind of like be a little bit more fluid with all what I want to do there. Like if I like, a power clean, is i'm hinging like a heavy hinge, A dead lift is also that. 00:10:23 Speaker 4: A sandbag clean is also that. 00:10:24 Speaker 5: So I kind of like in my brain, I think of, okay, what is like something heavy that'd be picking up from the floor, that'd be hinging with that's what I want here and I and it gives me options. If I just put like I want a power clean work out here, then it's like I just get into a rut of like, oh, I'm always gonna do power cleans here. In my mind, I know I could do something else, but I almost get stuck into it. 00:10:42 Speaker 3: Run. 00:10:42 Speaker 4: I mean, I got I got issues. I know I definitely got issues. 00:10:45 Speaker 1: I think I'll side with you in the fact that, like, it's not that I don't use that verbiage. I think I use it with my staff members or like the athletic trainers and pets or like. But then when I'm communicating to the athletes, Yeah, you've got to dumb it down. 00:10:57 Speaker 2: And it's not because they're dumb. It's because they're not experts the space. 00:11:01 Speaker 1: So it's like, how can we how can we simplify this so that like when they look at. 00:11:05 Speaker 2: It, they know what they're doing. 00:11:06 Speaker 1: And then when you're around them enough to like if you're with them for three or four years, they're going to eventually like know what everything is because like, you. 00:11:13 Speaker 4: Know, figure it out. 00:11:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, like they they know, you know, they've seen these exercises multiple times, like they've gone through multiple blocks or off season in season phases, so they kind of kind of get accustomed to it. 00:11:23 Speaker 5: Yeah, because like even they'll be the same movement. I've seen this a lot of this is the same movement that different coaches call something wildly different, right, And you're like, what is that word you put in my program? And it's like, oh, this is the movement and they're like, oh, I've done that for years, So that's so uh no that I like, that's kind of the question some of the questions I just want to ask you really like about training. I guess in a broad sense, I don't know anything about training somebody for a sport like you do. I mean you do you don't, Yeah, I mean like you specifically to like get on the field and play that sport. 00:11:58 Speaker 4: I don't know anything about that. 00:12:00 Speaker 3: No. But what you do with hunt, what you do with with compete with athletes and CrossFit it's very similar. You just look at what the sports the demands of the sport to. 00:12:08 Speaker 4: See with the guys. 00:12:09 Speaker 3: But don't say that you don't know what you're doing. 00:12:12 Speaker 5: You get the context of my space. I feel like I do know what I'm doing in the context of your space. Maybe I don't know as well, but maybe it's more similar than I think it. 00:12:20 Speaker 2: There's probably more similarities. 00:12:22 Speaker 1: I would also say that like if you had me go train like a crossfitter or like someone doing high rocks or like hunting or whatever, I'd be like, Man, that's not really my space. 00:12:32 Speaker 5: Yeah, but you probably and I guess, like what he's saying, you probably would still be pretty good at it. 00:12:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. 00:12:36 Speaker 1: He again, you reverse engineering everything, like Rich says, like, you know, look at the demands of the sport, the biomotor, bio energetic demands, and like you kind of work backward there. 00:12:45 Speaker 2: How much time do you have is a big. 00:12:46 Speaker 1: Thing, right, Like do you have a full off season, which you know in baseball is potentially three at least three maybe four months if you're lucky, you know, sometimes less if they go all the way the World Series. It's like you're looking at like two two and a half months, So you have to start there for sure, and then it's like from there it's a needs analysis, and that's through like assessments like what does this guy need? Like what are they really good at what what deficits do they have? 00:13:11 Speaker 2: Right? 00:13:12 Speaker 1: Are those deficits influencing you know, performance outcomes like negatively? 00:13:18 Speaker 3: Right? 00:13:18 Speaker 2: Okay, we need to bring those up. 00:13:19 Speaker 1: Like so you've got to kind of know the person in and out, understand like how much time you have, and then you can kind of build like a working framework framework to you know, get them to where they need to be in February when spring training starts. And I think that's the fun thing about training anyone, not just like professional athletes. It's like it's all kind of like a puzzle, right, Like you're all you're you're constantly solving problems, trying things out. Trial and error is big part of it. None of us have all the answers and and different Yeah. 00:13:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, and now some guys you can't talk into doing stuff they did they like baseball. Those dudes are you know, what are you cases like they are? They can be, they can be you know some are not some but you know the bassman. 00:14:05 Speaker 4: Professional athletes is probably even a better term. 00:14:08 Speaker 3: Yeah for sure. Yeah, but I would say baseball. But here's the deal is, like a lot of those guys you're playing one hundred and sixty two games probably what one hundred and thirty games for starters, one hundred and forty maybe. 00:14:18 Speaker 1: Well start starters, they'll get like you know, thirty to thirty three starts a year, and like those are the only guy that like those are really the guys that are like routined and regimented because they start every five days. 00:14:31 Speaker 3: We're talking pictuers. I'm saying, like, like the. 00:14:33 Speaker 2: The relievers and position players and players are playing. 00:14:37 Speaker 1: I mean, we had guys that played one hundred and fifty five. Yeah, like close to one hundred and sixty. Like there's there's guys on our team that played every single game. Now they might not have started every single game, but maybe they started one hundred and fifty, but they got into every game at some point during the year, right, so they literally didn't have a day off. So you think about around that, yeah, and like that's coming from like you know, I played college football, I coach in the NFL for three years, and like you have one game to prepare for a week and then you jump into baseball, which is like we have a game every day, And I'm like, you know, a twenty five year old head string coach going like okay, now I got to figure this out. Yeah, right, like kind of got thrown in the fire. And you know, it's it is super demanding. Like these guys they sprint, they run, they throw, they jump, they're on their feet. They're on their feet for three three to four hours, depending on how long the game is. 00:15:26 Speaker 2: And that's not even accounting for. 00:15:28 Speaker 1: Like what they're doing pregame, right, Like if we have a six to forty game, Like we got players shown. 00:15:32 Speaker 2: Up to the ballpark at twelve, yeah, like and. 00:15:34 Speaker 1: Then they're there from twelve to ten or eleven PM every single day. And then and then sometimes you go like night game to day game, and then you're just like, all right, you got the ballpark from twelve to ten thirty maybe eleven if you're getting treatment, and you got to wake up and be back at the ballpark at eight am, you know, and the staff's there at seven am, and then you know we're there. 00:15:54 Speaker 2: From seven to five. Right, So. 00:15:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot, man, it's a grinds. Especially if you accommodate, like you're talking one sixty two this season, then you've got twenty nine spring training games. 00:16:06 Speaker 3: Plus if you make the play plus if you make the PLAYFF you're talking over two hundred games. 00:16:09 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, Like that's crazy to. 00:16:13 Speaker 3: Go back to the pitcher thing. You know, they're pitching every five days or whatever depending on their What we were talking about when I was up there, and I didn't even think about it was a lot of those guys. We take Tarrek Scooble, for example, finishes his you know game depending on how much he throws, usually freaking hundred pitches and throwing one hundred and three at the last one, basically walks right in, starts lifting right. 00:16:36 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:16:36 Speaker 1: So like going back to like twenty twenty three when my first year with the Tigers, like Terrek, like super routine based guy, but admittedly just kind of like had some question marks in the weight room on like his routine, like just things he wanted answers for. 00:16:49 Speaker 2: Is that he wasn't. 00:16:50 Speaker 1: Really entirely unsure he he should or shouldn't be doing, and but he kind of told me what he wanted. He's like, I want true two training stimulus is between my outings. I'm like, okay, let's like stack and consolidate stress. And I was like bear with me here. It's gonna kind of sound weird, but like your starting day. Day zero is your high intensity day, right, you just said it. We're throwing one hundred pitches average fastball loss, he's probably like ninety eight to ninety nine. You're probably touching one hundred and three hundred and four and shoving it right. Come in after and get your workout in. 00:17:22 Speaker 3: Right after, right after, right, And I didn't even think about it, like you're saying the consolidation of the stress. Yeah, why wait until the next morning and then stress the buddy legitimately the day you're supposed to recover it. 00:17:33 Speaker 1: Not like you're already six feet in the ground, right, and you come in the next day and then you do a high CNS demanding training session, like, well, there's another three feet under the ground you are, and then now you've got four days to come back. But he also wanted a second training day on his bullpen day. So it's like, well, you're not certainly you're not gonna, you know, train the day after. You just crush yourself on the mound and then do another one on your bullpen day, because then you're gonna be twelve feet under the ground, right, Like, so. 00:18:00 Speaker 3: All day is usually a bullpen day after this usual for. 00:18:02 Speaker 1: Most guys, it's day two, so like it'll be day zero, Day one, recover, Day two, bullpen lift. Day three kind of another low day, so we're going like high low, high low. And then day four is kind of like a moderate it's a CNS activation primer day. So they do some like resistant sprints, some short sprints, some med ball throws, some loaded jumps, things like that, get the nervous system moving, get it ready to go, like, hey, we got to do our thing tomorrow, right, and then day five or day zeros pitch right. 00:18:31 Speaker 4: What does that day zero look like? 00:18:32 Speaker 5: The day or the I guess the day one is the recovery day, right, Day one's recovery. What is like the recovery day? And I know it's different. I know it's damn sure. It's different. 00:18:39 Speaker 4: From athlete athlete, what was their body responds to? 00:18:42 Speaker 3: Well? 00:18:42 Speaker 4: Is that what's like a general protocol that you kind of give them? 00:18:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I mean for most of our starters, it was like, hey, like do a little bit of zonne two aerobic work fifteen to twenty minutes, maybe twenty five at most, keep your heart rate around one thirty five to one forty five. Any sort of like, so what we'll do is an institute like a mobility circuit after that too, So we'll have like eight to ten exercises. They'll do like two to ten two to ten rounds, like yeah, like bands, body weight, TRX, bace, like full range of motion, get their heart rate up a little bit, but like not too much. They'll get a nice little sweat, you know. We use like various implements to to kind of challenge different positions, re establish range of motion, joint integrity, and tissue integrity, and then they can go to all their stuff in the training room, whether it's massage, therapy and any sort of like recovery modality, stem, you know, anything like that. So that's the whole theme of the day is like, hey, get your body back to like baseline right as quickly as possible, knowing that like by tomorrow you're probably not gonna be like, you know, back to one hundred percent, but we're gonna be way closer than we would have been had we just like crushed ourselves coming into the you know, day one, If that makes sense. 00:19:50 Speaker 5: What did does nutrition look different on those days for those guys or are there some people that are like really strict or do you have like kind of guidelines with that, like, hey, this is the day we're gonna do, like because we do like refeed days, right, like they have those two on those recovery days. 00:20:03 Speaker 1: Hundred percent that starts like once they come out of the game too, so to be like day zero, day one, like obviously high protein, high carb right, high end time flam so whether it's like turmeric, ginger, all those kind of like supplements. Our dietitian with the Tigers, Mo she was great, So she handled all that for us. She'd have smoothies at their locker once they came out of the game. She had little pack of supplements and then anything they need like specifically meal wise postgame and even going to that next day, you know, curated for them. 00:20:33 Speaker 4: Yeah is that something they like talk to uh Mo, Yeah, they. 00:20:38 Speaker 1: Would talk to Marine our dietitian. She she's a badass by the way, twenty five years of firefighter. 00:20:43 Speaker 4: And then like whoak's cool. 00:20:45 Speaker 1: Yeah she's she's awesome, but yeah, they would schedule all that with her, Like and Mo got to the point where like she's so good, she just knew like so she just boom boom boom, right, like. 00:20:54 Speaker 5: She's yeah, yeah, and then I guess let's just keep going. So like, what does that day two look like? You said, it's another high day where they come back to it. 00:21:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so that that day is usually their bullpen day, So for us, that's another training stimulus. And again, like for us too, like structuring the days is important too, because you can't just like I don't know, I guess you could, but like the way I look at it is like you want to get your heavier stimulus out of the way earlier because that's going to be more like neurally draining and taxing, so giving yourself your body more time to like get back to baseline by day five. I stacked that like heavier force driven day right after he comes out of the game. 00:21:31 Speaker 2: And then that. 00:21:32 Speaker 1: Second day, day two, which is what we're referring to, is kind of like a power rate to force development speed kind of day. So think, like, I don't know, in terms of percentages, you're probably like ten, fifteen, maybe twenty percent lighter than that heavy forest ove Okay, And you know, again like it's not that we're not training some things heavy like, but I think we have to be really strategic about how we implement that. 00:21:54 Speaker 2: Based on what Yeah, like what phase we're in. 00:21:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to control volume, right, so you don't want them super sore going into day three, day four, So we limit the volume. We maximize intent with some of those, like compound exercises because the volume's low. So you've got like three by three or four by three or you know, five by two whatever it is, like, yeah, you got like eight to ten reps to give me everything you got to you know, create this stimulus that we're trying to achieve, Like, go get it. 00:22:20 Speaker 5: You know, what are those compound lifts you guys usually go go to. Like I'm sure it's different for everybody, but like compound lifts you use that you like to go to that you see a lot of benefit from for those athletes. 00:22:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, good, good question, because as you alluded to, it's like it's different for each guy. It's like like Terek Schoogle is different than you know, Casey Mize or you know one of our other starters, Jack Flaherty, or it's all like again, it's all assessment based, it's all medical history based. Like there's so many baseball players have low back issues to the point of. 00:22:50 Speaker 2: Where like you can't. 00:22:51 Speaker 1: Put a bar on the back, you can't actial load them, like you can't trap our deadlift them, like oh yeah, there's yeah. Yeah, so you got to get real strategic. So like I'm a big fan with like these. I started to getting influenced by the archetype model. Bill Hartman is kind of coined this model. It's like the wide and narrow archetype. I think it really influences, you know, skill skill based sports. So we look at like wides and narrows like scooples of wide like big force producer six four sixty pounds, right, and then you have other guys that are more of your narrow archetypes through yeah, like taller, er, narrower, right, Like those guys are meant to have their center gravity up like their their their chest is or there, their thor ax is meant to stay up. Like they're not great hingers, right, yep, they don't have Yeah, they don't have a ton of access to hip internal rotation or shoulder internal rotation. They're more external rotation based, right, So like hinging is a heavily ir based actually, like any hinging is very much influenced by internal rotation capacity. So if you don't have that, then like innately, like could you get that person more ir sure, yeah, and we could do that, but that could honestly make them worse. 00:24:05 Speaker 2: It's their goal. 00:24:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so like a lot of those narrows, like we keep their center of gravity in their chest up. 00:24:12 Speaker 2: We box squat them, right, and we. 00:24:14 Speaker 1: Do a lot of like you know, rear for elevated reverse lunch split squats, everyone does like unilateral training and so but but then our wides are our hingers, right, those guys have a massive intro rotation window. They rely on interron rotation. They're really restricted in extran rotation. So scooble trap bar guy like and and again traditionally he would be in season. We tend to rely on more of a box a belt box squad because again he has low back issues like has in the past, Like just it flares up from time to time. And again like there is several different ways that we can achieve an adaptation and an outcome. It's not married to one exercise. 00:24:57 Speaker 3: It's different for us because that's our sports. 00:24:59 Speaker 2: It's the comp you have to do it. 00:25:00 Speaker 1: But for them, it's like these guys got to throw a baseball a hundred miles an. 00:25:03 Speaker 2: Hour, and is to help you know that? 00:25:06 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so it's like the difference it is. It is like your guys a sport involves weightlifting. These guys don't like. So sometimes there's a subtle reminder there. It's like, hey, it's okay if you can't trap our deadlifter. It's okay if you can't heavy. 00:25:17 Speaker 4: We'll find that stimulus some of the way. 00:25:19 Speaker 2: Many roads to run, yeah, many roads to run. 00:25:23 Speaker 4: And then after the heavy day, you said, there's another low day. 00:25:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that third day is more of again like a neuromuscular region. They'll do some more soft tissue whatever they need to do in the in the training room, they'll do some tempo runs with us, or they'll do something if they're you know, if it's an older guy's got knee, hip back problems, then like we can get them on the right. 00:25:45 Speaker 2: Here how old thirty eight? A lot of miles, Yeah, a lot of miles. How many did you run to get here? 00:25:51 Speaker 4: About three? 00:25:53 Speaker 1: I can't remember the last time I ran three miles on purpose. I didn't do it on purpose. But yeah, so it could be something like steady state or more interval like on the on a wind bike and assault bike. Just something that's like again like PNS really like we we don't want to excite the nervous system or drive that kind of stimulus on day three when we know we're gonna kind of like get a little bit of that on day four, and we want to preserve that mostly obviously for day five, right, which is their start day. 00:26:23 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's cool. I do want to ask, Yeah, go ahead, I. 00:26:27 Speaker 3: Mean, because we are geeking out at this point. All right, So with your you know, I'm speaking in Tiger's terms, your torkleson mckintry, those type of guys that play a ton Riley, how when are you fitting in workouts with them? And what are there you know, what are you trying to do with that? Yeah? 00:26:45 Speaker 1: No, it's to maintain at that point for them if they're playing that much, right, Yeah, no, And and those are like great question. Riley was a guy that like religiously mostly for the like the first day of every series, he'd come in and get a full training session. And now, like everyone thinks, like and I think largely in baseball before the last couple of years, like some of these training sessions in season for guys, like from what I had heard from like previous strength coaches like like forty five minutes to an hour, and I'm like, holy crap, man, like it's a long time. You got to you got a game to prepare for. Like, no, we're gonna get you in and out of here in like twenty minutes quick like. And so we're really intentional with what we do. We obviously understand the player, what they need, what they respond best to, because that's a whole thing too. Like there's guys that don't respond well to high force training. There's guys that don't respond very well to speed and like high velocity training like School, Like School wants to feel something when he trains. 00:27:43 Speaker 3: You know. 00:27:43 Speaker 1: McKinstry and Riley are guys that like are more driven towards like the velocity side of the forced velosity curve. 00:27:48 Speaker 2: They like that better. 00:27:49 Speaker 1: Now we do have to still sprinkle in like some high forced stuff, right, strength retention and things like that. But yeah, for those guys that played essentially every day, what we do isind of like you know, for Torque and McKinstry specifically, it was those guys were like, we're consolidating their their training sessions and making them like more micro doose training sessions. So it was like pick you know, we've got three or five exercises, maybe two or three rounds. 00:28:14 Speaker 2: It's like ten or fifteen minutes. But then they come in the next. 00:28:17 Speaker 1: Day and they do it again, right, and then and then maybe that third game that series is off because it's an night game into a day game. So again we kind of structure it based on like night day game series. 00:28:28 Speaker 3: Or for there's obviously different, but you go two night games and then a day game on the third. Usually, so just to give you guys kind of a reference who don't play or don't really watch baseball, it's usually usually there'll be some four game series and some other crazy stuff. Usually you go three days back to back, and it's usually two nights, one day in the day's one ish, sometimes a little bit later, but yeah, yeah, so that's definitely a way to think of that. Yeah, and then usually there's an off day, a travel day. 00:28:56 Speaker 1: Well off day, yeah, it's so so we'd have that third game and then like whether it's at home or on the road, like an hour after the game's over, we're on the plane and we're going to the next city. Yeah, and I think the most the most games we played in a row last year was like seventeen not enough day, so but usually it's like we usually play at least six with that enough day. 00:29:17 Speaker 2: If we had an off day every six, that'd be great. Yeah, it doesn't go that way. 00:29:20 Speaker 1: It's usually like nine to every nine to eleven days or twelve days we get an off day. So we'll go like three series in a row, sometimes four, sometimes five, Yeah, without an off day and traveling to different cities and changing time zones and like crazy. 00:29:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot. 00:29:37 Speaker 5: That's crazy, Yeah, because like it's it's like a game of recovery at that point, like who can recover the best and do it again? 00:29:42 Speaker 4: It's like really stay healthy for that, yeah yeah, who can? Who can? Yeah, maintain that full recovery the whole time. 00:29:48 Speaker 5: That's I mean a lot of what you're saying, which is really cool, honestly, is that like it's very similar to the way I think about stuff. I didn't I kind of thought so, but was unsure, like the our day, the low day, and then like you like you literally explain what we do on our programming on Thursdays like, yeah, I. 00:30:06 Speaker 3: Say, usually the way we go is a three on one off. 00:30:09 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:30:09 Speaker 3: When I say off, some people could take completely off. I would yeah, And I'm thinking back when I used to compete, it was a three on. Mine was just like a like a swim day, run day, bike day, something like that or both, and then I'd train again Friday, Saturday, and then Sunday was just usually one session on something. 00:30:27 Speaker 4: Yeah, But like I'm just looking at the the programming right now. 00:30:29 Speaker 5: We're like the on Monday as of right now, we're doing a lot of pulling from the ground hinging. We're doing a lot of hinging, so like we have like a power clean program that day and instead of where we're doing like a true recovery day, like you're saying, is well, it will be different muscle groups. So like this is a lot more hinging and pulling from the ground, and we do have like a rock but it's easy, so some cardio in there as well. And then the next day is going to be an upper body day. Mostly we did a lot of hinging and pulling from the ground, lower body stuff, and then the next day will be lower body again. So it'll kind of follow this trend and then you have a recovery day like you're saying, and it's literally what you accept what you said. It's like twenty to thirty minutes of like easy moderate cardio and then like some stretching, some like active stretching stuff. So yeah, that's I mean, that was pretty cool, Like I think it being very similar was not. 00:31:17 Speaker 4: Surprising but also a little surprising, I guess. 00:31:20 Speaker 5: I guess I don't know what I was expecting, but that was pretty cool that, like it's very similar to me. 00:31:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's like you're structuring, like you're periodizing for whoever's in front of you, which a lot of times, like you can't just like go, you know, a whole month and just like being people onto the ground like they're never going to come back. 00:31:35 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah, that's not training. You just have to kill something inside of you. 00:31:41 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. 00:31:43 Speaker 2: To me, that's not training. 00:31:44 Speaker 1: Like anyone can do that, like anyone can make someone sweat and like, but it takes like a true practitioner and to like actually periodize things and like understand what's the end goal here and like how are you going to get there like realistically. 00:31:56 Speaker 2: And you know, without killing this person right exactly. 00:31:59 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, most of most of these people that he's programming for right now are looking for September, right, So it's like we're building building to that point. Right now, he's doing a lot of strength, a lot of hypertrophy type stuff because once we get into later part of the summer, then you're just you're rucking and running and you're trying to build build that engine, so you're ready to go, but you also don't want to neglect that this year as well, so you know, and that's that's kind of one of the tricky parts of just what we do, you know from the online side is you know, you're there's so many different people that use the stuff. So for me, I'm looking at you know, I try to do some type of I need something to train for and so to have some type of challenge every quarter, Like we were talking about that run, We've got twenty four hour mountain bike race and Amrrillo and then I'm gonna do probably three competition CrossFit competitions this summer. But their partner, yeah, just more fun. And then right now, we've got an iron Man on the books for November, so you in wow, uh it. 00:32:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, give me the day we'll talk about Yeah, Panama City. 00:33:02 Speaker 5: Man, let me see if I can move around to make sure I'm busy that we get exactly Okay, this is kind of he hinted at it with September two. Uh So, like what he's talking about is where we're doing a lot of hyperchav a lot of strength building because a lot of guys inevitably, when you go hunting and you're out, like you know, he knows for sure he goes and he's hunting for like two or three weeks out of September, your fitness gets neglected, recovery gets neglected, sleep gets neglected, nutrition gets everything gets neglected. You're singularly focused on killing an animal. And then when he come back from that, you are, you know, a shell of what you were. No matter how much you built up, you end up being a shell of what And I'm sure it's almost very similar for someone coming out of a season. They're not the same athlete that they came in, as you know, in terms of they have probably they have issues here or there. You know, they have injuries, and they've kind of limped in for the rest of the season. 00:33:55 Speaker 4: If you were to get an athlete. 00:33:56 Speaker 5: Let's just say, let's say you get trade in, you get traded in an athlete, what time of the season would be best for you? Is it like right when the off season starts, or is it kind of during the season so you can see how they play, or when is a great time to get that athlete to where you can start assessing them, because you mentioned assessing is a big part of it. 00:34:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the best time is probably the off season, just because you have the most time with them. 00:34:19 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I. 00:34:20 Speaker 1: Mean, and you have every single day with him in the season, but baseball's in the way. Yeah, right, So like you're very limited with like you have to be very intentional with what you're doing and how long because you only get these guys for like a finite amount of time in season. It's like, hey, they're gonna give you like fifteen twenty minutes to train, all right, They're gonna give you like five minutes to do a prep or repositioning or corrective routine something like that. 00:34:40 Speaker 2: Like they don't have all this time. 00:34:42 Speaker 4: Do you want to learn what makes them tick for that time? 00:34:44 Speaker 1: But yeah, and you've got to have the relationship first to get the buy in and all that stuff, but like their their attention span and like the amount of things they have to get to, Like there's it's a combination of like, hey, we're we're under a time constraint here. 00:34:55 Speaker 2: I've got to go hit in the caves and I gotta go take ground balls and I got to go prot I gotta do like inner. 00:35:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, like yeah, training in season is not number one on their least, and for most guys it is a priority. Is just like number yeah, it's baseball is and people don't see, right, it's not as you know, right, so you have to understand that. And like, but I think the best time is the off season because like that's when they're kind of like quote unquote a blank slate and you can you know, they're going to train three to five times a week, you know, and then you're gonna get your hands on them for a couple hours a day, right, whether it's training, whether it's you know, manual therapy like whatever, Like you have the most time to make the most change while baseball is not really interfering at least not until like December January. Then like now we're in January, and like baseball activities ramping, right, So they're guys are hitting three or four days a week, guys are throwing almost every day, and like they're taking ground balls now, and like we're three weeks from you know, spring training. Yeah, so it's like at this point, like not the best time to to get somebody at the end of the off season because like now baseball start to take over, take precedent, and now like you've got to consolidate and like drive down the stimulus and training because otherwise you're just like if you're elevating both together, I mean, these guys are gonna burn out, like nervous system wise, are not going to be in a good place when they show up to camp. So if you're ramping one, you know, stimulus which is why they get paid, and got to bring down you know, some other some other areas just to accommodate for that. So yeah, again I would say beginning of the off season perfect. Does it always work out that way? 00:36:29 Speaker 3: Now? 00:36:30 Speaker 2: How often? 00:36:30 Speaker 5: Does it? 00:36:31 Speaker 3: Not? 00:36:31 Speaker 2: Very often? 00:36:32 Speaker 1: And then even like trade deadline or like during the season, it's like, Okay, you know, you have a conversation with the guy you talk to a strength coach where you got traded from you get the assessment information from their trainer, but you're almost in a situation too where you're like, Okay, I want to figure out if we can help this guy, but if he's performing well, I also don't want to like. 00:36:52 Speaker 2: Mess him up. 00:36:53 Speaker 1: So like it's kind of like you have to be sure that there's something that you know, and that's a decision that's not just mine. It's like the group, like our medical group ATCPT, like front office, like all those people have to kind of like weigh in on those decisions and then come to a conclusion that like all right, we're gonna interven intervene here and like find a solution. 00:37:11 Speaker 3: Now, is it a mandatory thing that these guys had to do, like they had to come to sessions or did they. 00:37:16 Speaker 2: Just for training? 00:37:17 Speaker 3: Yeah? 00:37:18 Speaker 1: So in baseball they don't. So the players Union is like so strong that like these guys legitimately don't have to come in and train. There's no finding system, Like there's no like like they can just not train now, Like if the manager the coach wants to go talk to them at the front office, they can, but like there's literally nothing tying them to like coming in to train or do treatment or anything like that unless they have an injury. Any guys like that, you know, in my career in the seven years I was in baseball for sure. 00:37:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, those guys that like. 00:37:46 Speaker 1: No, I'm not touching the oh. I mean you get like maybe ten percent, like one of two guys a team that are just like, yeah, that's not my thing. 00:37:56 Speaker 3: Now. Would guys come in and do their own thing? 00:37:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's a handful of guys that like they have a trainer that they've been working with for ten years or eight years, like, and so that's like where the relationship is really important because you have to respect what this guy values. And it's like if he's been with this guy for eight years and you just come in and say like, well I think that's wrong, you'll never have the relationship. So it's like, how can I work with this person, not just the athlete, but with your trainer and make you and him both feel valued because like, you know, if you've had some success with the guy, like you can't literally just sit there and say like this hasn't worked for you, right, But then also the player needs to understand, like we're with you every day, we have our hands on you were watching you, like we're having conversations about you, So like give us a little bit of the time of day two right to kind of intervene and like talk to your trainer about like what we're seeing. So usually when you approach the relationship like that, it works out really well. And again that all starts with the relationship with the player. 00:38:53 Speaker 2: If you don't have that your toast, So. 00:38:56 Speaker 1: Off season, how does that work off season with our guys, Like, there's a handful of guys that train with us. There's a handful that again have had their like off season training place for years and like kind of the same idea, right, Like we just want to have really good relationships with those guys so we can call them, text them and be like, hey, send me this program. Let's get on a call, and like let's understand what you're doing this phase and actually for the entirety of the off season, Like we need to understand that because ultimately, when they show up to spring training, like we are responsible for them, so like a lot of it's on us, like if they show up out of shape or like we don't like the plan, or like we don't like how they showed up, Like the answer from their front office is like. 00:39:37 Speaker 2: Well, why didn't you know about it? Like, why didn't you intervene? 00:39:39 Speaker 1: Right, So we have we're entirely responsible for that, and so like the biggest thing is like making those trainers and coaches feel valued, which they are because they're doing they're helping us out right, and a lot of them are really good. I have good relationships with most of those guys. So those guys we just monitor week to week, phase to phase until they get to spring, and then if we need to give them any input, we need to show them any data or like numbers or things that we want to see from them when they show up, we share that information with them too, and make sure that they're they're getting a little bit of what we want as well, right, and again reminding them it's like, hey, this is coming from the organization, Like this is what we need from you, Like you can do your thing, but we. 00:40:20 Speaker 2: Need a little bit yeah. Yeah. 00:40:22 Speaker 1: So but then the guys that were in charge of you know, kind of makes it a little bit easier because we've got everything in house. So you know, as a staff, me and my assistant would kind of sit down throughout the off season and kind of go over like, hey, what are this guys? 00:40:35 Speaker 2: What are these guys goals? 00:40:36 Speaker 1: Like based on like player feedback, coach feedback, front office feedback, like where do we need to get this guy three or four months from now? And then that gives you an idea of like what qualities we want to train how early? How much time do we spend in each phase because like for each guy could be different, Like for a guy that's got like you know, crazy uh max strength or absolute strength numbers, like we don't really need to spend a whole lot of time and strength like we can spend more time and like power, rate of force development, speed like mobility, repositioning, corrective work like and again they're all they're going to train. But like it's it's it's kind of and we talked about it earlier without saying it, but it's like the vertical integration model, like all qualities that matter in sport are present. It just about like adjusting in like what emphasizing, emphasizing what qualities during what time, Like if capacities and high volume are important, which they are for CrossFit, like you're always going to have an element of that in your program. It's just like there's a time to emphasize it, and there's a time to like kind of put in the back seat, and it's like, Okay, we're gonna touch this, like at the end of our training session or like on our off day, we're gonna do twenty thirty minutes of like you know, whatever it is. So it's the same thing with with training athletes in baseball and football whatever. Those qualities are always going to be present. It's just a matter of like like adjusting, adjusting when it's like is it a strength block or a force driven block? Okay, well, like sixty percent of our work's going to be driven towards like a high four stimulus. Like while the like doesn't mean power speed work's not there, of course, it is like we're still throwing med balls, we're still doing resisted sprints, We're still not unresisted sprints. Yeah, it's just like we're not emphasizing that in October November still there, right, can't Yeah. But then now it's like, okay, we're January. So now we're doing like contextual skill work, so curvelin you or running because we got to get them prepared to run the bases. Right, We're doing fly in so max effort, you know, build up sprints like they're you know, building up for twenty five thirty yards and then hidden yep, yep, hitting the gas for ten to fifteen yards because we needed to get the top speed stimulus right. So it's just a it's kind of a blending and well, programming is an art Like it's an art form, and it's something that like I get frustrated with a lot, but like I deeply appreciate after being in the profession for ten years. It's like I'll still you know, I'll still spend four hours, like I spent four hours doing Bryce Bryce Harper's program, like last weekend when I was in Austin and I was like pissed. 00:43:04 Speaker 2: I'm like, why is this takes all? 00:43:05 Speaker 3: Like because you care? 00:43:07 Speaker 4: You can't. 00:43:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, you want this to be perfect for every athlete that you you know that you come across like. 00:43:14 Speaker 2: So long winded, but no. 00:43:15 Speaker 4: That's awesome. 00:43:16 Speaker 5: Yeah, that that last part is exactly how I am. It's like, why why is this taking me so long? I've been trying to write like a session for this athlete and You're like and I'm doing nitpicky crap where like and then I'll all look back at it, and I'm saying, there's there really wasn't any difference from what I had then and what I have now. But there's just that, you know, there's that one percent chance that like that could actually make them better, that little tweak you made, and and you know, you know, maybe you don't ever know if that made the difference for sure, but you're like, at least I'm at least I'm giving it everything I have and I'm trying that like I do, I'm putting all of my brain power into making it better. 00:43:55 Speaker 4: Right, And this is one question I had when you were saying that. 00:43:59 Speaker 5: I just thought of it out this, uh what you were what you're saying a little while earlier. So when you get a guy from a different team, you said, like, you'll talk to the other uh strength coaches from the other teams. How is a relationship there? Like, is there any animosity between like between like other strength coaches. 00:44:14 Speaker 4: I mean like, no, not like that. 00:44:17 Speaker 1: No. I think maybe some guys probably don't like each other. I was pretty friendly with everybody like and honestly, like, at the end of the day, even if you don't like somebody like this guy's doing you a favor by exchanging information for. 00:44:27 Speaker 2: You, like you should probably be respectful. 00:44:29 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:44:30 Speaker 1: I enjoyed all my my colleagues across uh, you know, baseball never had a problem with anybody. 00:44:37 Speaker 2: But I'm sure there's some guys that. 00:44:38 Speaker 5: Like, yeah, like I'm not telling each other, I'm not telling you. What makes a guy ticking like we got to play next? 00:44:45 Speaker 3: Yeah? 00:44:45 Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like I feel like there's some of that across it, right, like in the crosso space, Like I feel like it could like even though they're not not saying there is animosity, I'm just saying that, like in the cross the space like at between athletes, like an athlete trades camp. But I feel like the coaches would be able to come to an agreement and say, hey, like I'll like, this is kind of what this guy likes. 00:45:06 Speaker 4: Or no, you're very against that, Scott, What do you think. 00:45:11 Speaker 6: No, they wouldn't do that. 00:45:13 Speaker 5: Maybe everybody everybody. Yeah, maybe maybe I'm just too nice. I guess maybe that's a problem. 00:45:18 Speaker 3: Never heard of that about you. 00:45:20 Speaker 6: I think like normals like real sports are a little different though, where they are more used to people like changing hands changing Yeah it is. 00:45:29 Speaker 4: But and it is a little bit different. 00:45:33 Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess it would be a little bit a little different, like because it's not like you, it's it's you and that athlete, and then when that athlete leaves you, it's that coach and that athlete. 00:45:43 Speaker 4: You know, like there there's. 00:45:45 Speaker 5: A team around that athlete instead of singular like you're like, dude, that was like that was my guy, Like that was my guy. You took my guy, Like screw you, you took my one guy. 00:45:57 Speaker 4: Uh So, yeah, I guess it would be a little bit different. 00:46:00 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean this is great news that, like I think based on the I mean, I could be wrong. 00:46:06 Speaker 4: You could had me. 00:46:06 Speaker 5: Fooled, which is great. You seem way smarter than me, which isn't hard to be. But like it does back up a lot of the stuff that I have been doing, like the timing of things and focuses on stuff, like you said, the focus on things. 00:46:21 Speaker 4: We literally trade the focus of like the CrossFit stuff. 00:46:24 Speaker 5: He said it where like our CrossFit workouts in our programming kind of take the back seat right now, where our strength and our hypertrophee are kind. 00:46:31 Speaker 4: Of the focus. 00:46:32 Speaker 5: We're still doing that CrossFit stuff, you know, we're still doing the ten or fifteen minute m raps or the three rounds of this or five rounds of that. It just isn't the precedence right now. We're trying to rebuild the strength, trying to get back you know, healthy joints where it's been neglected during the season, especially deer hunting. 00:46:48 Speaker 4: Like you're sitting there eating little debbies, you know. 00:46:51 Speaker 5: That's if you're like me, You sit in the trees, they eat little debies for three months and you come out of it like you come out of it like a doe. 00:46:59 Speaker 4: Boy. That's me. 00:47:01 Speaker 5: And then uh and then yeah, so we use like this winter time, which is great. It's perfect timing for us because like hunting season really is over, like the end of the year, January starts, and it's like perfect time to say, hey. 00:47:15 Speaker 4: We know you need a programming. 00:47:16 Speaker 5: We know you need program you're gonna do the New Year's resolution anyways, Like hey, we'll help you out, like we have. We literally are tailoring it so you are ready for next hunting season, like we're thinking about it and the basically the terms you think about as the same terms I'm trying to think about it for these guys. As if September is their season. So that's cool. Uh makes you feel a little better. 00:47:35 Speaker 3: What's next? 00:47:37 Speaker 6: Well, I was gonna say, we talked about baseball a lot, but I'd be curious to know like the big differences between football and baseball, because while they're both professional athletes, I think football is obviously a much different demand in terms of in season, it's more physically taxing, probably like week. 00:47:54 Speaker 3: To war time of beating games too, or injury taxing. 00:47:56 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. 00:47:57 Speaker 3: Like, and they have to you probably have to be a better shape, that's what they're running a lot. 00:48:01 Speaker 6: It's so much more violent too as a sport, so I feel like the training would be much different as well. 00:48:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, again there's like similarities but two entirely different sports, right, like a contact sport versus a very like skill based rotational sport. Yeah, like I always say, and not that like not that like training people in general is easy, it's not, But like I found it so much more complex to train baseball players and it is to train football players, like because I like certainly like nobody you know, your offensive and defensive line aren't doing the same program as you're like middle linebackers and your tight ends and your fullbacks and running backs, and same for your like wide receivers and dbs. 00:48:45 Speaker 2: But like you do kind of break. 00:48:48 Speaker 1: Those groups up skills and it's big yeah, skills, mids, bigs, and then you're able to kind of like program based on like their positional demands, which like those kinds when you break those up, like there's a general under standing like that you know, those the qualities that are you know, those guys need or are pretty similar. So and it's always in a group setting too, so like there's it's not that there's not time for individuality. There is, but you have to be super discreet about like how you individualize because you've got like thirty guys in the same room with three or four coaches. Yeah, you know where baseball is more of a personal training setting, Like guys just come in, roll in like whenever they want. And and certainly there's you know, points in the day where there's like five or six guys or sometimes seven or eight guys in, but sometimes they just shuffle in. So that creates more opportunity for individuality in their training program. If you've just got like a one on one with a guy right. So to that, to that extent, I think, like you think football, and you're like, man, these guys need a coat of armor, right, Like, they got to be strong, they got to be powerful, they got to be explosive, they got to be fast. It's a lot of like physical qualities that dominate that sport, where like baseball, not that it doesn't, but it's less because like I've had guys that like, you know, get on a force plate and do a countermove a jump or do like an issymmetric myth thipole, which is like a force output you know, isometric force output test, and like on paper, they're one of the worst I've ever seen, But then they go out there and throw one hundred miles an hour. 00:50:21 Speaker 2: He's a future Hall of Famer. 00:50:22 Speaker 1: So it's like it's not all about like physical outputs right in the sport of baseball, where like if you see that with an NFL guy, like they're probably a pretty damn good Like like Joe Thomas with the Browns was like, I don't know, one of the highest isometric myth thipoles I've ever seen. It's like, okay, yeah, hall of famer, Like yeah, a lot of times in baseball, you don't see that, and the guys still go out and like hit four hundred and fifty foot bombs and throw one hundred miles an hour. So it's like, to me, the biggest difference between both of those is like not that like strength training and like compound exercises matter less or they shouldn't be done less, but like I think they correlate a little bit less to like performance outcomes in the sport of baseball. Like a lot of these guys, especially in the big leagues, Like if you're talking like eighteen year old Latin kid that's never trained, like you can do like you do any strength shrain with that kid, he's gonna get he's gonna throw harder, he's gonna hit the ball farther. Like, but these guys who have super robust and develop nervous systems, like adding ten pounds onto their box squad or trap bard deadlift just doesn't move the needle from a performance outcome anymore. So like you have to find like what genuinely are their KPIs. Like if it's a guy on the mound and it's like, okay, back leg hit by r like holding his back leg through his delivery or like through front foot plant is a kpi for him and he's not doing that. 00:51:38 Speaker 2: Okay, let's like let's figure out. 00:51:40 Speaker 1: Why does he not have enough hit by r It's like you get him on the table and it's like he's got oh, he's got three degrees and he needs fifteen. So let's re establish that and then let's go test it, like let's get him on the mound or like or or the testing is like when he goes out in the game, like and does it get better? 00:51:55 Speaker 3: Right? 00:51:55 Speaker 2: Or if it's like you know. 00:51:59 Speaker 1: Peak uh peak landing force on his front leg you know, so that like the energy transfer from the leg up through the upper like up through this throwing arm. If it's down like a couple of hundred newtons, that could affect velocity, right, So it's like, okay, why is that like And again it's not it's not like we're going to improve that with a trap or a spot, like we have to be like, okay, what's that position biomechanically look like when we're breaking things down? How can we recreate that stimulus in the weight room? And again, it's not always going. 00:52:30 Speaker 2: To be with the bar on your back or like anyhow, you know what I mean. So that, Oh, it's fun. 00:52:35 Speaker 1: That's why I'm like, it's you're solving a puzzle everything like, so that's why it's fun. But it's like it's more challenging, it's more demanding, it's more frustrating in my opinion, because it's less straightforward than like a guy that's just like not fast enough, ors like not strong enough. Like to me, getting a guy stronger, faster, more explosive is easasye right, like at this point, like we've all been doing this for a long time. 00:52:57 Speaker 3: And but it's fun in those one percent that you're right in one two percent. Especially in baseball, it matters a little bit more where it's a team sport. It's a pretty individualized team thing. 00:53:07 Speaker 5: You know, you're kind of out there like like you're out there, it's it's just you for like there's. 00:53:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially you can generally have one guy in the mountain dominate the whole game and you win because of him. 00:53:18 Speaker 2: Like for the most part that happened like. 00:53:20 Speaker 3: Quite a bit, especially the second half of the season. Yeah. 00:53:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes you only got to score one run when a guy like that is on the mound and like you can win the game. 00:53:30 Speaker 5: Yeah, so uh yeah, I could see like a different from football, Yeah, because you can just make them most of the time stronger, faster athletes, and then they're like way better. Like, dude, you're a genius, you know. Yeah, you're like all right, yeah, as long as you believe it, you know, Yeah, that's cool. Yeah yeah, I could see, uh, like a suit of armor is a good is a good analogy for it, Like you just need to make that person less resistant to injury or more resistant injury, faster, stronger, and then you kind of are like you're in pretty good shape. 00:53:57 Speaker 4: After that, it's just skill, yeah, I mean, and then. 00:54:01 Speaker 5: Like you said, sorry, like you said, like I started to think about you know, there's the fire or video of Tom Brady run his forty, Like that's just one that sticks out to me. He's like you see that and you go to this guy you kidding me? But then you know he's the best there ever was. There are guys like but there's probably more guys like that in baseball for sure, right than there would be in football. Usually those are good tests. You're like, as guys, he's all right, yeah. 00:54:23 Speaker 1: The more the skill based position, like the quarterbacks, Like they don't have to be as no, yeah, physically physically gifted or athletic as some of some of their teammates, right because like Brady again, like you put Brady on a force plane and you have him jump or like just have him to do a vertical jump, Like, yeah, it's probably not as good as the guy next to him. Yeah, Like and that's okay because he doesn't need it and. 00:54:41 Speaker 4: Those tails aren't aren't of his position very well. 00:54:44 Speaker 1: No, And that's like, you know, certainly there's some correlations to like vertical jump hight and peak power on a vertical jump and fastball velocity and next velocity, but like sometimes there's not like so and again like like what's strong enough? Right, Like we it's our job to assess that, like does this guy have more room for physical maturation and like will that impact you know, him impacting the ball harder or like throwing the ball harder. Like those are all like KPIs and systems that we've established that we like we have good answers for. So that's that's a fun process too. That's something that takes years to kind of like put together. 00:55:23 Speaker 6: But one of the things on the Mayham Hunt track. We'll train because Rich and I have encountered it a lot. Out West is like a like a thirty inch single leg box step up, like a lateral box step up. And we'll wait at some times, sometimes not because we're basically training. You'll love this, like the deep neflection. So if you find yourself with a pack and yeah, you slip and fall or something, you're basically training like a weak position, Yeah do you. And I've seen like those videos like Pat Mahomes training positions where like you might be injured, right, So, like in football, is that pretty common for them to train a weird position like that to like strengthen different ranges of motion in case their body finds themselves in that spot. 00:56:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, definitely. 00:56:06 Speaker 1: I think that's all part of like skill skill development, skill maturation, like throughout the off season. 00:56:11 Speaker 2: Like I think it's something that. 00:56:12 Speaker 1: Like I think early on you can kind of like you know, train some like deeper ranges of emotion underload, like with eccentrics isometrics in disadvantageous positions, like that's great. And then as you get closer to risk when yeah, like yeah, yeah, once you get closer to like football or baseball taking over you kind of like let the skill take care of itself. 00:56:35 Speaker 2: But then yeah, in preparation early on. 00:56:37 Speaker 1: Like find those positions, like yeah, challenge those positions, like in a closed environment, then maybe an open environment, and then a dynamic environment. So that's like kind of your progression. It could be like the same drill, but like ones like you know, predictable and then the next one's not, and then it's like reactive based on your coach, your teammate. Like if you're doing like a you know, a skill like dynamic you know. 00:57:00 Speaker 3: Competition cosakis squad where it's just your back and forth, then you add maybe a bowsuit bawl where you're just doing it on that and then you jump onto the bosu bowl and try to like challenge right. 00:57:10 Speaker 1: And it could be something as simple to like you get a guy up on a on a box and he like jumps off and you push him from behind and then you have him like as soon as he lands, he cuts and changes direction right and goes to you know a cone that's five or ten yards away, Like it's something like that where like you're certainly not starting there. 00:57:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's where you can get to too, right by the end of the off season. 00:57:29 Speaker 1: Then again like once they getting into OTAs and the off season, like you hope you prepare their tissue enough to kind of withstand the forces of the you know, and and the rates of forces that go through the tenons, the muscles, the ligaments and the joints. And again no one's perfect, like and no, nothing can truly prepare to prepare you for like fall camp or like spring training, because like you get there and it's just like you hit the ground running, you know, six seven days a week, and your spikes on the ground for you know all freaking yeah, yeah, things happen. 00:58:01 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah. 00:58:01 Speaker 5: The best I mean, I think I've seen this too. The best thing to prepare you for your sport is your sport. 00:58:06 Speaker 3: Yeah. You can't prevent injury most of the time. No, I can help people get back from their injury quicker, the more prepared there on the front. That was one of my when I was an assistant when I started as a GA, chip was like, we can't, like contrary to popular belief, cannot you cannot prevent injury. Ever, No, you just can't do it. 00:58:24 Speaker 1: Now, I think you, I think you hope to like as a practitioner, you hope to mitigate the risks one injury, which happening. But that's like if you can do it, Like if you can put your best foot forward and do that and say that you've done that, like then you should hang your hat on that, even if you get fired or like you get let go. It's like I knew I did everything I could, you know what I mean? But to your point, like nobody could if if if someone could prevent injury, they'd be a trillionaire, like we wouldn't. 00:58:51 Speaker 2: There would be no strength coaches like. 00:58:54 Speaker 4: Yeah, he would program everyone to follow and he'd be the guy. 00:58:57 Speaker 3: Right, what's next? 00:58:59 Speaker 4: You next? 00:59:00 Speaker 3: No longer with the Tigers, Man that hurts snow. Yeah, I'm gonna call when I need tickets. 00:59:04 Speaker 2: And I got you. I still got I still know. 00:59:09 Speaker 1: But yeah, I resigned in December after seven years. It's been like to life, man. 00:59:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's good, it's fun, but it's like, you know, I've got a wife, you got two dogs. We live in Nashville. 00:59:20 Speaker 1: I never sleep my own bed, I never stay in my house and so and I had some family stuff come up this offseason and it just kind of made me realize that like, you know, yeah, life short, Like I want to I want to spend more time with the people I love and the people I care about, and I want to be able to do stuff like this more often, you know, and uh, you know, meet cool people and not that I didn't in sport, but like ultimately it's like, can I spend more time at home? 00:59:46 Speaker 2: Can I still yeah? Can I still yeah? Quality of life? Like, can I still scratch. 00:59:49 Speaker 1: The itch of like you know, training, performance optimization all that stuff with not just like athletes, but like former athletes and whoever whoever else I get, you know, I'm fortunate enough to work with. And so that's where like the Collective came in. So we're opening up a twenty five thousand square foot facility in Wedgwood, Houston. We'll probably open up in July or August of this year. And that space is basically think a health and wellness country club. 01:00:18 Speaker 3: Right. 01:00:18 Speaker 1: So we've got you know, thirteen thousand square feet of training space, We've got fifty five hundred square feet of coworking space that includes a full cafe and smoothie bar, and then we'll have like fifty five hundred square feet of men's and women's locker rooms, high end men's and women locker rooms, and then we'll have a common like hot and cold therapy space, recovery space, so we'll have sauna, cold plunge, red light, norma tech so compression therapy, and then we'll have a group fitness studio as well. We'll have a little merch store, and then the other services that come with that. It's again it's like we kind of want everything under one roof, so we'll have like medical conscier services, so we'll have like blood panels, ivs, peptides, hormone, stem cells like all that stuff, and then we'll have personal training, physical therapy, chiropractic, massage, therapy like all those all those services for members, and it's like a it's a it's a member's only exclusive capped club will cap it at six hundred members and we're we're closing in on four hundred applications right now, so I think we'll open our doors mostly. 01:01:29 Speaker 2: Capped at this point. So I'm really excited. 01:01:33 Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna start constructioning here in the next couple of weeks. 01:01:35 Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, man, sounds cool. Yeah sounds really cool. 01:01:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, good luck on the the new new venture man. Yeah, nominally close to So you have to come up and hang out and some of the stupid stuff we do. 01:01:48 Speaker 2: I would love to. I would love to. Just let me know and I'll block my dates, make sure I'm not here. Yeah, exactly exactly. 01:01:56 Speaker 3: I'm going. So you got anything. 01:01:58 Speaker 4: Else, I'm good. That was cool, Ycott, No, that was it the only thing. 01:02:05 Speaker 6: The only thing I was thinking about is you live in Nashville, unlike what like a quarter acre or something? Half? Yeah, how much? How much? How much proper do you have? It's like a well, I'm just thinking about how overpopulated the deer are in Nashville. 01:02:20 Speaker 3: And maybe urban unt like one to two. 01:02:26 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's make it happen. 01:02:28 Speaker 4: That'll do me and Scott can make it happen. 01:02:30 Speaker 3: We've done. Next year is a bait state, so you can just throw out some bait. 01:02:32 Speaker 6: We've done. 01:02:34 Speaker 1: You've got like you've got the biggest like Metro Park in East Nashville, like in all of Nashville in East and there's like deer all over that place. 01:02:40 Speaker 2: It's crazy. 01:02:42 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:02:43 Speaker 4: All we all we need is a singular tree. We usual tree. 01:02:48 Speaker 5: Yeah, deck of work for frank the deck, saw us over some burlap. Frankin he just do from his he does right from his porch. And I think there was like a black bear underneath, Like he's like, what is that down there? I can't see anything. 01:03:02 Speaker 4: It's so dark. 01:03:03 Speaker 6: Still rich Georgia, but yeah, yeah, I mean Nashville is one of the most overpopular Davidson County. That county is like the most overpopulated deer county in the state. 01:03:15 Speaker 5: They've had three You've been able to do three dose a day archery rifle for like as long as I've ever walked into it. So yeah, you can shoot. You can shoot tons of deer there. It's just like Georgia. We go, well, don't tell. 01:03:29 Speaker 2: I don't tell anyone where you go, only me. 01:03:31 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's all I got though. 01:03:34 Speaker 6: I was just thinking about urban hunting. 01:03:35 Speaker 4: Yeah, your mouth salivating. 01:03:40 Speaker 3: Cool man. Appreciate it, Yeah, absolutely appreciate it.