00:00:12 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Elk season is literally right around the corner. We're about a week and a half away, and the majority of us, you know, in September rolls around, that's our time to go chase buglin bowls. And in my opinion, there's no better critter to hunt than elk. Why they're biglin. You know, I'll argue with the meal deer hunters and the white tail guys all day long. There's nothing that quite gets the hair to stand up on the back of your neck like a buglin bowl at close distance. 00:00:38 Speaker 2: But anyways, I decided to. 00:00:40 Speaker 1: Take today and kind of go through my seminars that I typically do, and I name that seminar Elk Cutting with the Purpose. And you know, those that know my background, I overanalyze everything. I try to figure out why, the how comes and the why is and try to methodically figure out what matt and why. And so when I did that, I ended up like reducing that down to having a purpose when you're out there, Like what is your goal? Are you out there just to have fun? Are you out there to kill any legal elk? Are you out there strictly to put meat in the freezer. Are you out there to kill the biggest bowl in the mountain? And I'm all of those are acceptable. Is it to go out there and hang out with friends and family and laugh and you have a couple of whiskeys around the fire? Is it to you know, watch the sunrise with your kids? Whatever that may be. You needed to find that and make sure you know before you're in the middle of the hunt that you've got that well to fined and and that you're gonna go out there and you know, do the best to fulfill you know, everything and that purpose. So to break this down, you know how to elk coume with the purpose. So you've you've created that purpose and we just went through a list of you know, some of those. It could be you know, many many more. Whatever it may be. You know, you only you can define that. But from there, when I'm on the hunt, from the time I'm going there, from the time I arrive, every decision that I make at that point should be with the intention of that purpose. It's a building block towards the goal that I've set for myself. So I don't like, you know, if if you know a rockstar monster, you know, at whatever energy drink, red Bull, whatever your your choice, you know, black rifle, coffee, whatever you're looking for, you know, a latte down at the coffee stand, if that sounds good. 00:02:38 Speaker 2: But yet I need to be and I. 00:02:40 Speaker 1: Can somehow talk myself into going and getting that in town that might be a twenty minute away from you know, twenty minute drive or twenty mile drive from camp versus me. You know, going and finding elk in the middle of the day. That is a bad decision, no matter how much you know. And then all even the grimlins kind of kind of creep in and like, but it'll be like a picker up or you know, it'll it'll help your mental game. And I don't buy into that anymore. Like if I can't with the you know, honestly answer the question that this decision and this effort will be, you know, a building block towards my goal, and I won't do it anymore. During a hunt, I'm out there with a specific purpose to kill a ball, you know, the biggest bowl that I can find. And you know, I have a lot of fun, so I try to balance those street. Now, if your purpose was to take your kid hunting, and if going to the store and getting an ice cream or or whatever was you know, helps you fulfill that purpose, then by all means that's part of your goal. But we you know, you have different goals. So I'm kind of talking, you know, with with out of both sides of my mouth, But it really goes back to what your purpose and what your goal is for that hunt always question what you're doing after you make the initial decision. I'll make some crazy decisions at times where in my mind, going back into basin that's seven or eight miles deep that had a bunch of elk in last year was just loaded, is the best decision I could make. And while I get in there, I can't find any sign or the elk maybe aren't there, or there's a bunch of boot tracks in there or something. So I'm always you know, even if I'm only two or three miles in and things aren't starting to add up, or the tracks are starting to show, or something just isn't isn't jiving, and I start to question that plan, like is this still the best thing to do? 00:04:30 Speaker 2: You know? 00:04:30 Speaker 1: Maybe it's like, well, I'll give it two more miles to another main trail junction and I'll reevaluate but don't just always go be willing to adapt and change your plans. 00:04:43 Speaker 2: For me. My goal is and purpose. I want to hunt hard. 00:04:45 Speaker 1: All the time, from from sun up to sundown, all day long, even after the sun goes down, before the sun comes up. If that, if my plan dictates that I need to be up two hours before dark so I can get the wind right, which means getting down below the elk, typically down valley, down slope, and I need to be in that spot, then if that means I got to set my alarm clock for three thirty, then that's what I do. 00:05:09 Speaker 2: I try not. 00:05:11 Speaker 1: There were times where I would be lazy at times and like I'm gonna have an easy one because I was fortunate where I grew up hunting that I could typically find one that wasn't going to be a whole lot of extra work somewhere along the hunt. 00:05:22 Speaker 2: Nowadays, not so much. 00:05:25 Speaker 1: I've also been at this long enough that I hunt hard all the time because it only takes one one opportunity to go right. It only takes you know, the wind to be right one time, the bowl to react and to everything he needs to for me to make the perfect shot. It only takes one but I've also been on hunts to know that that one opportunity maybe on day nine or ten or the last. 00:05:47 Speaker 2: Day of the hunt. So it could come early in the hunt. 00:05:50 Speaker 1: On day one. We've had that happen. It could come on the very last day of the hunt. So when I say it only takes one, you don't know when that one's going to be. And so we're always hunting hard. We're always trying to treat every stock, every opportunity like it's the last. It's it's kind of crazy when we when we think about it, we always seem to do things a little bit better, a little more deliberately on that last couple of days of the hunt, because things are now critical if you screw this up. But and then I always remind myself, why don't you why don't you give you know, your early you know your early hunt stocks that much attention, and and why aren't you at that height and awareness all the time. And so I've been able to kind of to tweak my brain a little bit, and we treat everything like this as your only opportunity because it does only take one, but you may only get that one. As I just mentioned, treat every stock like it's the last of the season. That's kind of on the next bullet point, and my my slide always you know, this is kind of going into my purpose. I always remind myself you can't cheat the win. There are times where it's like, I want to make a four hundred foot loop around this elk with the wind going to them. I'm going to give them the wind, but I think because of the ridges and the way this lays out, the wind won't get to them, and I will risk that, and I used to risk that. 00:07:09 Speaker 2: I will no longer risk the wind. 00:07:11 Speaker 1: I'll go half mile a mile out of my way to get around the elk, to make sure that they are still in that location, they're calm and comfortable when I get there and I haven't buggered them up and have to try to, you know, deal with elk that most likely aren't going to be called in at that point. So you can never cheat the wind. Always put in more effort, you know, and get around them. And you know, so we can argue over how in perfect conditions and certain winds, like how far can elk smell you. 00:07:39 Speaker 2: I've always just assumed five. 00:07:41 Speaker 1: Hundred to seven hundred you're going to get picked off, and so if you're outside that seven hundred. But nowadays I don't really look at a distance. I look at terrain and just make sure that whatever my approach is, I'm not going to get winded. The next thing which people could see is false confidence or cockiness is I expects on every out kind I'm on, whether it's over the counter Washington tag, whether it's the best tag that I've gotten, you know, Wyoming, or wherever it may be, Idaho, I expect to find success every single hunt I'm on. And that starts with my Google you know, my Google scouting, my on ex map scouting, you know, everything that I'm looking at. I'm drawing up these plans that and almost visualizing I'm gonna kill a buck or a bowl. You know, we're talking about bulls, but you know, I'm gonna kill a bowl in this basin because it's going to be there. I'm gonna kill this in that spot. You know, I can visualize it happening, and I can see that I visualize that there's not going to be that many people in on this trailhead because it's step or it's rugged. 00:08:45 Speaker 2: I can start. 00:08:46 Speaker 1: To to you know, almost you know, force the success to happen. And if I can't buy into that planet, if I can't you know, fool myself or or convince myself, then I'm going to have success. Then I need to go back and change my plan. And well, I buy into that plan. It's very very important for me to see this through from beginning to end in order to to kind of, you know, materialize that success. If I'm not bought into the plan and I'm just going through the motions, I'm I'm, you know, a tenth of the Elk hunter I should be or can be because I'm just not bought in. 00:09:20 Speaker 2: I'm not in the game. 00:09:20 Speaker 1: I'm not expecting elk to be in certain patches of Timber, and I just hunt kind of lacks daisical and and I just I'm not on my a game. The next bullet kind of ties into that. Don't just go through the motions. If you ever find yourself just hiking because there's a trail in front of you and not because there's a there's an elk destination or there is a spot you need to get to or want to get to, then find a new plan or do something different or change your purpose or goal like if you're just going through the motions because you want to hike, you know, and maybe run into an elk, then that that's what you need to set your goal as. But with me, I don't want to go just go through the motions because I've got a purpose of killing a bowl and I'm trying to kill a good b So if you're just going through the motions, you reevaluate your goals and purpose or reevaluate what you're doing and make a change. And I get probably too too caught up, but I still have a lot of fun. But I found that I have a lot more fun when I'm successful. When me and my buddies are grinding and out with the full pack meat on our backs, you know, getting horns out in tough, difficult spots like that's when we have the most fun. 00:10:24 Speaker 2: You know. 00:10:24 Speaker 1: It is definitely type too fun, but but that makes it, you know, funner for us. But it's it is important to have fun, no matter what your purpose, no matter what your goal is. I know, we can get into debates all over the place on whether hunting's supposed to be fun or if it's a food gathering. You know, exercise and fun is just a byproduct, I'll argue with those people all day long. I have a ton of fun elk hunting. I have a ton of fun with my buddies, my family, people that I get to meet. I have a lot of fun while we're out there, you know, sweating our asses off, you're kind of grinding it out, chasing bigling. So while it may seem like with all of this, you know, effort put into finding success as my purpose or my goal, I still do have a lot of fun. And at times I have to remind myself to have fun because you know, I'll get down on myself when something doesn't work out or I make a wrong decision and I start to question, you know, everything that's going on. But but that's where you know, you need to remind yourself to have fun while you're on that hunt. And and so, like I mentioned earlier, we kind of go through what's your goal? You know, is filling the freezer, having fun, killing the mature bowl, spending time in the woods within you know, friends and family or is it a combination of many of those things? And I think for ninety nine percent of people it is a combination of those things. They're trying to fill the freezer. They're trying to kill the best bowl in the hill. They're trying to have as many laughs as possible to friends define that, and that's going to kind of dictate, you know, how you approach the hunt, you know, and then I always put a plan together, multiple plans, you know, plan A through Z in case things don't go right or I show up and things are wrong, or I can't camp on the spot. I always thought I was gonna camp, and then I'm always evaluating, you know, reevaluating my plan as I mentioned earlier, and then I need to go out and execute. And so we're going to talk about now is and I'm gonna probably walk through the majority of this, you know, elk hunting with the purpose, with the intention of being successful and and you know, trying to kill a bowl and put it in the freezer. So one thing I asked myself a long time ago when I started talking about elk hunting, and really at the first time when somebody asks you, because you just go through the motions, you know, I've I found success with a bow. I found success with calling elk early on, and it not until a few years later I kind of had to had to sit down and reevaluate what makes a successful elk hunter, and I kind of came up with three h three excuse me, eight key factors, uh that that seem to kind of matter, and I'm gonna kind of walk through these and explain them. So scouting, scouting or the ability to find the animal bull elk that you you're after. So scouting is huge. Are you out in the woods all the time? Guys that are out Guys and gals that are out in the woods all the time will typically always be more successful than people that show up on opening day or go back to the same spots year after year. Some hunts can solely be the success that can be like solely attributed to scouting. I mean not solely, but the majority. That factor is the overarching majority of why you were successful. The second one was physical conditioning. Be in as good as shape as you can. It's never gonna hurt, it's always gonna get e too farther. You're never gonna give up on elk. And physical conditioning really kind of translates over into mental you know, your mental game, because if you're in bad sha, your body's gonna start to question, you know, are you should you be going or we should probably come up with a different plan because your body's starting to break down a little bit. You know that just being as good as shape as possible. I'm not gonna dwell on that topic, but that's always gonna help. It's always gonna help. It's never gonna hurt you by being in better shape. Your gear, you know, I wouldn't spend too much time on this either, but just have the best gear you can afford. You don't need everything, doesn't have to be top of the line, but good gear does make the hunt more. 00:14:37 Speaker 2: You know, enjoyable. 00:14:38 Speaker 1: You you know, if you have better optics, you will probably spot more elk. If you have a better range, find or you might not get a missed range. If you have a better bow, you may be able to shoot a little bit faster and not miss the vitals. If you have better you know, a tent, you may be able to stay longer. It may be lighter, you may be able to pack farther. You know, a broadhead, A good broadhead may provide better blood. Any of these things can be attributed to gear, But I'm not going to dwell on that one. Let's just find the best gear you can afford or the best gear for your situation and roll with it. Number four is elk calling. I've I've probably hung my hat on this one more than anything else. But I also understand the elk cunting knowledge, you know, being able to shoot my bull, you know, setting up all these other things are also very very important. I feel that by being a good ELK caller, you open up just another another chapter in the playbook to killing elk. Anybody that's listening to me long enough, I've admitted multiple times that you know, spot in stock on big herd bulls that are buggling and rutting can be very effective calling elk and bushing elk, sitting over water whatever it may be, you know, sitting in pinch points can all be very very effective ways to hunt elk. I love to call elk, and so that's what I'm out there trying to do. And by being able to call elk, I've killed some great bulls. So why you know some people will say you can't kill herd bulls by calling. You can't do this, you know, with calling, calling scares them off. You can't call elkin in this area. You can't call elk in New Mexico or Arizona. 00:16:10 Speaker 2: Whatever it may be. 00:16:11 Speaker 1: And I've I've proven the majority of those wrong as well as others. So it just gives me another tool in my toolbox. And if I elect to use that or not is on me. But being a good ELK caller and having those tools and you know or are very important. And then the next one is elk and acknowledge. I feel that somebody's ability to know where elk will be, where elk will go, what elk are wanting to do, what elk you know have been doing, is very important. 00:16:40 Speaker 2: You know. 00:16:40 Speaker 1: Somebody that can find tracks and tell you if they're a day or two old, which direction they're going. Somebody that can run across some elkscat, you know, step on it with the edge of their shoe and. 00:16:49 Speaker 2: Be able to tell you, you know, how old is that? Have they been here recently? 00:16:52 Speaker 1: Somebody that can walk into a rub and say, well, this elk, you know this rub was here a week ago because the bark's still kind of pliable, but it's still kind of brittle, or if it was, you know, last year because the needles were red. You know, if somebody can look at a map and just almost instant instantly know this area is going to hold elk, and then you can zoom in and see where there's trails in the alpine or you know, if there's a meadow down in the creek bottom, like, oh, something's obviously using that there's no cattle in this area, that's probably so just you know, being able to show up to a spot that you've only ever scouted online and being able to you know, take your plan, look at it quickly, reduce the country if if at different, you know, if there's differences from what you thought you were going to see when you got there, and then within a day figuring out if they were elk there, or if your plan is going to be able to even work in this area. So elk cutting knowledge, you know, the ability to track elk nowhere elk are going to be is one of the biggest, you know, the biggest you know problems. 00:17:58 Speaker 2: That people will have on not being success. 00:18:00 Speaker 1: And it sounds very cliche, but you can't kill elk without being able to find elk. So that elk hunting knowledge, you know when to call, you know, we go back to calling, when do you call? When you can you read the temperament of a bowl. You know, all those things come in come into play. Shooting your boat is another big one. Are you confident enough to make the shot when all these other things happen? You know, are you only confident out to thirty yards? A guy or gal that is only confident in shooting an elk at thirty yards, it's going to have a whole lot, you know, a whole lot less opportunity than somebody that's even comfortable to fifty yards. You know, the difference on the amount of elk that we'll get to fifty versus thirty is a pretty good stack most of the time, unless you know setups and scenarios and the rut and you know, everything aligns. But there, I would say, you start to lose half your elk that you can't get between fifty and thirty, you know, just in general. You know, then you go to your tracking kind of kind of touches with shooting. There's some there's some skins and being able to track, being able to see something that's not normal, being able to read it. You know, if a bull gets hitting the right shoulder and you see them kind of limp and away, being able to read that that front left hoof is going to put more pressure in the ground. Being able to read that you know, this fern is freshly broken and bent over. Being able to read blood signs, having the knowledge that and elk has typically been heading in this direction. If you lose blood, you kind of tend to follow elk in that direction. You know, just things that that you will pick up. And being able to track, be able to get down and pick up blood easily. You know, all these things go. Shooting tracking kind of go together. But until you're there that and tell you not that tag like you haven't been successful. In my opinion, that's that's a big component. And so being able to shoot and track very very important. You know, we talk about this too much, but it also lets you know that we think is very important. I've said it a bunch, I will say it again. I feel that most elk hunters are good, good enough to get everything right until they go to set up. They can find elk, they can locate elk, They're good enough shape to move in on elk. But when they go to set up, they make bad decisions or they set up in a spot that isn't ideal for that elk. Being able to see them and they will not get a shot because that bowl is going to hang up. So set up in a spot where when that bull sees you, you should have a clear shot at the vitals. And the last one is just mental toughness. You know, we look at all these other things that are semi you know, skill driven or you know, things that that you can, you know, teach yourself. But mental toughness, I feel is also taught. But a little bit is just kind of there. You either have it or you don't, or you need to build it somehow, or you need to hunt with a partner that has it. But mental toughness I can. I can have all these other things dialed, you know. I can have the biggest bulls scouted out. I can be in ultra marathon shape, physical conditioning, you know, being able to lift up a you know, a car or what I you know, just tougher than nails. I can have the best gear. I can be the best ELK color. I can I can know everything about ELK. But there are times where things still will not go your way and you're gonna need to rely on that mental toughness to stay in the game, to not hike out and go try a new area to not hike out to the truck and you know, lick your wounds and try to make up a new plan. You need to kind of stay the course. You need to grind it out. You need to take the kind of the battle back to that bowl and so being mentally tough, pushing the next ridge over, you know, riding your bike the next three miles into a clear cut where you think there might be you know something. All of that is going to add up to making you a better elk hunter. And so then what I like to do is I take all of those things we just talked about. At the end of each year, you know, this is preparing me for the following year. Is what do I need to work on? What were my weaknesses? You know? 00:21:46 Speaker 2: Was I in good enough shape? Was I a good enough shooter this year? 00:21:49 Speaker 1: You know? Was did I make a bad shot? Was I confident enough enough out to a certain distance? 00:21:55 Speaker 2: You know? 00:21:56 Speaker 1: Did I set up real real poorly on a few of these setups? Like do I need to rethink this? Why did I do that? Why was I lazy and not? You know, why didn't I set up in a spot that was you know, fifty yards up or whatever it may be. Why did I settle on that? And so I like to go through and kind of reevaluate and then work on my weaknesses to become a better elk hunter. You know, I look at all of those those things, try to reduce them down to what mattered, what didn't matter? Can I get rid of some gear? Do I need to bring all of these elk calls? You know, whatever it may be. And I feel by looking at those things, it's going to make you a better elk hunter, which in turn will make you a more successful elk hunter. And for me, that really kind of ties into my goal and my purpose when I'm out there elk hunting. So let's say we've talked about all those things and season is here, you know, or s's coming up, you know, scout, if possible, you should be on elk to start with. I need to be able to break that country down as quick as possible to find elk. I need to have a plan to check in on certain areas. And when I talk about this, I'm looking at depressions and ridges, I'm looking at wallows, I'm looking at water bodies, I'm looking at open meadows. I'm looking at the fringes between you know, train features. I want to be in optimum spots at first light. In last light, I will kick myself in the butt every time, and I just don't allow it anymore. For me to be in a mediocre spot as the sun rises, I means I need to set my alarm early enough. I need to give myself and I would much rather be sitting in the dark on a good lookout, you know, half hour before listening for bugles and be rushing because I'm late to get to a spot and show up a half hour after daylight, because you may catch the glimpse of that ELK that you need to get your day started or to create your whole plan in that first ten or fifteen and then they may be gone. 00:23:55 Speaker 2: You would have never seen them again. 00:23:57 Speaker 1: So that's where you know you're you're opening day. You're kind of getting ready. 00:24:02 Speaker 2: For that hunt. 00:24:04 Speaker 1: You know you You then go into locating ELK, so it is opening morning. My favorite way to locate ELK. Even though I love to call, I love to hear myself call. I love to get bulls to answer for me, I would much rather get a visual on ELK. So locating ELK through optics or you know, through through the lens of my eye. I want to be able to spot elk. And the reason I'd rather do it visually versus audibly or or you know, verbally to start with, is it allows me to ask the questions that I need to make better decisions. I can evaluate the elk. What's going on? Is there one herd bowl and three cows? Is there one herd bowl in ten cows? Is there one herd bowl, four satellites and ten cows. Like, I now have a lot more information that is going to affect, maybe affect the way that I go in and call. The second way to locate elk is to an audible method. So let's say I glass, I'll probably let a location be agle for my glossing point, but not probably until a half hour hour after daylight. I'm gonna you know, and then as I move down a ridge, I will kind of locate bugle into pockets anytime they open up or there's new area I can I can bogle into. And so there's an audible method, and this is the call that I will use ninety percent of time. It's just a location bugle. It's a two to three high note bugle that I try to only let last for two to two and a half seconds so then I can listen. I will locate at night prior to a hunt or prior to being you know, the hunt starting, or even during the hunt, and then still hunting is a way to locate elk, but you're kind of just you know, hiking through patches of timber or you know, even betting areas. If it's late in the hunt, you don't have a lot to lose. You can still hunt, which you know for those that you know may not know what still hunting is. It's just a slow spot in stock type of hunt. You're trying to spot the elk before they spot you, typically in timber, you know, and you're just trying to kind of drum up elk as you as you move along. So let's say we locate elk, you know, either through audible or visual, what's my next move? I'm gonna, as I mentioned earlier, I'm going to ask myself some questions if I can, if I can see him visually, I can ask kind of what are they doing, what are their plans? Are they feeding? Heading to bed? They're showing like major reading activity or anything else. This needs all be considered before starting my approach, and then I need to figure out where I need to set up. So if I spot a bowl from two miles away, it might take me two hours to get there, depending on the train and my approach and the wind. If I spot bowls, you know, four or five hundred yards away, it may be a very quick decision. So I need to figure out where I need to get to set up, because a bowl will be much more callable if I can get to a spot where they naturally want to go versus a spot where I want to call them to. 00:26:47 Speaker 2: If that makes any sense. If a bull is. 00:26:50 Speaker 1: Going from feed to bed, it's way easier for me to call him to his bedroom or on his way to his bedroom that it is back to the original feed spot where you spot at him. Maybe more of an ambush and call. Being in that spot is going to be way more effective than trying to call them backwards. The closer and get to the bowl or his cow is the better. I try to always get within one hundred yards if the train and vegetation allows me to, you know, hunting around Pacific Northwest growing up, I was able to get elk you know, into sixty to seventy yards a lot of the time, and you need to get close enough to become a threat to that bowl or close enough to be a cow to that bowl that he's willing to come far enough to check on that cow, but it's not far enough that he feels like he's leaving his herd. What time of day is it when you spot these elk? 00:27:38 Speaker 2: Is it? 00:27:39 Speaker 1: If it's at first thing in the morning, then you've probably got three three and a half four hours depending on the country, or in how quick the sun hits it before your thermals are going to change, you know, up slope. So if it's gonna if I spot the elk at eight and I think it's going to be ten o'clock till I get there, I may need to just be patient and stay back, or I need to, you know, calculate that into my and at some point I'm gonna have to be above those elk or hang out behind a ridge long enough until that wind switches, you know, and elk are very smart. They are very good at knowing when when the wind's going to switch, being in a spot that protects them right up until that point, and then betting in a spot that typically has swirling winds and just protects them when they get there. So you know, your plan of just hiding in an area you know may or may not work, but just keep that in mind that the elk are pretty dang good at getting themselves in a spot where they're not going to get winded. We touch on this all the time. Setting up, You're where's the ball likely to come in? 00:28:38 Speaker 2: On? 00:28:39 Speaker 1: So I get all the way over there now I'm looking at at the ground on a very micro level. You know, I want to know within this fifty yard spot, am I in a good enough Am I close enough to the bowl? First off? And is this the best spot? If I walk into the twenty yards is that spot better? If I stay back in another twenty yards is that spot better? Am I now too far away from neilk? So I'm I'm like over analyzing this because, as I said multiple times on the other podcasts on this podcast, setting up typically is a determining factor between getting a shot within archie range or being able to see a bowl kind of move around in the brush at seventy or eighty yards away, And you need to look at all that. I'm just gonna repeat it because it's worth saying. You know, where's that both most likely to come in? What does the train and cover look like? When will he be able to see me if he comes in on that on that line? Which will direction will we come in from? Do I have multiple shooting lanes? Can I move without making noise or brush? Have I set up next to a tree where I can mimic, you know, raking or beating of antlers on a tree, you know, because a lot of times I'll add that into my calling. So I'm looking for all of these things to add up to like a preferable set up. And then you're you know, lastly, you're thinking about the wind direction. Ideally the winds hitting you somewhere in the front. For reasons I've mentioned, I'd like the wind to hit me a little bit at an angle, whether it's thirty forty five degrees somewhere in there, because that guarantees or dictates which side he'll likely try to come around on, which gives now gives me a better idea on where I should set up. Now we'll kind of move into calling. So as I mentioned, there's a lot of ways to kill ELK. I go back to my purpose and my goal. I've set it a bunch. I'm out there for a specific reaction from a specific bowl. I want that thing to have his eyes rolled back in the back of his head. I want him to come in, you know, just bombing in ready to kind of kick my butt because we got too close to him. And that's my ideal situation. Now we don't always get that, but that's that's what I'm trying to create out there, and that's what I'm trying to get to. Now that we're set up, we're going to start to call. I try not to get too caught up, and we can argue about this, and I wouldn't even argue. I would just say, yep, you've probably got a system that works. You know, some of these people try to talk with. You have to understand what the Elk are saying and what that means, and then there should be a very specific response to that. And I've never bought into that. I've never hunted, you know, for the last shoot. I don't even know how long it is now almost thirty years, I've been calling Elk with nobody instructing me on how to do it, just kind of come up with my own system. I've always played off their temperament. I've related, you know, related it to fishing. You know, there's times I'll go to the river and it's I'm gonna drown a worm, and then I'm gonna, you know, throw a spinner, and then I'm gonna throw a wedding ring, and then I'm gonna throw a panther Martina. 00:31:34 Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep. 00:31:34 Speaker 1: Fishing with whatever I can until I figure it out. Well, that's almost how I elk. If I've got a bowl that is just hammering without me saying a word, he's obviously his temperament is high. He's he's, you know, just something is pestering him, you know, whether it's a cow and heat and there's a bowl glunking behind her. Like I'm I'm gonna let those elk and that temperament let me know what my next call should be. Should I, you know, be cow calling? Should I be bugling? Should I be raking? Should I be chuckling or running? I let that temperament play. I don't get too caught up and that that bowl chuckle three times, and then I need to do what you know, I need to interpret what that meant and why he did that. I'm just all right, he's biggling a lot, he's you know this, or he's bark screaming after I've made calls. I'm like, he wants this, you know, he wants us to show ourselves whatever it may be. Like I'm going off a temperament next when it comes to calling, and a lot of new hunters kind of run into this is they won't make calls or they're afraid to call because they don't think they're good enough. So don't ever get hung up on needing to be the best caller. All elks sound different, and some of the worst elk calls I've ever heard of come from real elk, So do not get hung up on that. Be confident enough going into the hunt that you're willing to make a sound, and then go with that. Next to if I'm hunting a herd bull, A lot of times I will go with this calling sequence. I just said, I'll plan the temperament. But I if I'm able to, let's say, move into eighty two hundred yards without making a peep without those elk knowing there, I kind of run the let's steal a cow. I try to paint that scene and this is more of herd bull tactics. So I will get within eighty two hundred yards and I will then do an estrous wine, which is more of a whiny instead of just yeah, so it's more up and down. It's whiney, and then I will immediately follow that with a challenge beagle. And what I've tried to do is say you have a cow at the edge of your herd that needs some attention, and there is a new bowl that is in the area that's now here you know, or one of the satellite bulls that have been around you is now you know, near her, and this works better. And this is one of the reasons I like to see the elk that I'm hunting. If I know that there's some semi mature satellite bulls that are around this herd bowl, that seems to be a very good tactic, you know, for that. Now, if you're after a satellite bowl that is run by himself or four to five hundred yards off of cows behind the herd, using lots and lots of sexy cow talk, you know, Estra's wines, lots of meuse. You can even throw some you know, Estra's buzzes at them, and we've got to see these elk, you know, in burns or in clearcuts before. It seems like the more cow talk you can throw at them, the quicker those elk will come in. So those are my two favorite scenarios. I know, they're very very cookie cutter. One thing I hate about trying to talk about elk cutting is there are a thousand factors, and for each each factor that contributes to my next decision, it would be impossible for me to lay out all of these scenes. So these are very very cookie cutter, very very you know, vanilla in my approach. But it's the best that I can do because any real life calling situation, there are so many factors. You know, how many elk around, how many people around, the wind, you know, the type of timber I'm in, the type of underbrush. All of these things now affect those decisions. And we could here for you know, years trying to explain you know, situations, and you give you enough examples. So these are very very cookie cutter. You know, we've got satellite bowls without any herd, bulls or cows around, and you've got a herd bowl with cows around those are our you know, typical calling. So then I just let the situation call my next move. When I call, I'm very attentive. I'm listening. Do I hear elk running away? Do I hear bulls bigling? Do I hear stick snapping? Do I hear anything? I'm very prescriptive, So I'm just gonna adjust to what is happening right now. Let's say I moved in on a herd bowl that wasn't very active, and I didn't feel confident in painting. Let's steal a cow because maybe he's going to be flighty, or I just feel like he's going to be flighty. I may go in and just hit him with some cow calls, just to start, just normal cow calls, not not the estri swine, followed by herd bull and then I evaluate did he respond no or yes? If he does, then maybe I'll. 00:35:58 Speaker 2: Give him some more. Is he getting closer? No? Yes? 00:36:00 Speaker 1: Do I need to move closer? Do I need to like up my my frequency or or the urgency. 00:36:06 Speaker 2: Of my cow calls? 00:36:09 Speaker 1: You know, So you're just you're always evaluating what's going on, and then you're making adjustments to that, you know, what's happening, and then playing from there. If you've got a you know, if you've got a partner or an elk caller, somebody calling for you when you go to call, I want to make sure that my caller is close enough to that bowl when we set up to still be a threat. As I've said, you exponentially, your your ability to call elkin exponentially diminishes as you get farther and farther away from that bowl. So we've all watched you know, old hunting videos growing up where the caller could set back one hundred yards and call an elkin. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you I've tried it a lot, and it doesn't work because we're not on you know, some ranch and you know, some private ranch where these elk have the ability to you know, there's the the col ratio so high. A lot of times, our caller needs to be very very close to the hunter. I love, as a hunter or a caller to be able to have communication or a visual on the shooter or the caller so that we can communicate whether it's you know, you're telling them to bugle, because you know, the shooters may be able to see how they react, or whether it's cow call, or whether it's the like you know, don't call anymore at all, whatever it may be, that that tends to help. The other thing that we do when you've got a partners that's calling for you is if you let the wind be just a little bit unperfect. If if you're back behind the shooter and the wind's hitting us from the right a little bit, that caller should then be back behind you and to the right, because as that elk tries to get wind on the so called elk or the caller, that elk will get to a certain point, whether it's seventy eighty yards closer farther, and it will start to loop to the left, and by that caller being back to the right, it will loop that elk closer in the shooter for a shot. So as a as a partner strategy, that's very very important. Solo, if you want to get the same reaction, you can make a call and then move up to your left. So you may make that call one hundred yards and then move up to your left, you know, eighty yards, and that will give give the give the idea that the callers actually moved back. Now, if you need to make another call, you're going to kind of give up that location. But but that's that's kind of how we handle you know all of that, and and you know setting up and calling. Don't be afraid too to just to make natural sounds, you know, whether it's cow sounds, whether it's bugles. I like to use mimicry. So when I say, you know, make natural sounds, you know, I that's one good thing about being a good olt caller is I've got the ability I can hear a sound about I know how to do that on my diaphragm, or I can I can replicate that, So I do a lot of mimicry on my diaphragm. So whatever bowl I'm trying to call in, if he growls and then chuckle three times, I'm going to growl and chuckle it three times. And then one of the ways that I turn the temperature up on them and actually kind of increase their temperament or make them more frustrated is in addition to mimicry, if they start to bugle, I will kind of listen to their bugle through it, but I will start my bugle about halfway through theirs and not let them finish it, you know, or finish it cleanly. So I'm always going to kind of stomp on their bugles, mimic them, and then be the last one to finish my call. I've found that it works very, very well. It's very effective, and at the worst case scenario, if we're trying to figure out what the elk are saying, I'm saying the same dang thing he is, because we're bugling exactly the same, right. So there is the idea that if there is some hidden Elk language that some people are trying to depict or it actually mean something, even though I've watched many many elk and found that not to be true. It's more of an individual you know, I can watch you know, it's more of an individual thing on how Elk talk than what they're saying. But a worst case scenario, if I'm doing mimicry, I'm saying the same thing to the herd that this bowl is, and I'm saying the same thing to him as he may be saying to me. 00:40:06 Speaker 2: So worst case. 00:40:06 Speaker 1: Scenario, whether you believe in that or not, mimicry is a great way to kind of just like conservatively cover up you know what the elk are saying. So yeah, and then after that, like the shooting through a podcast, I can't help you on your shooting, you know, just just have a system. 00:40:25 Speaker 2: You know, shoot enough. 00:40:27 Speaker 1: During the summer, be able to talk yourself through the shot, you know, whether it's draw anchor breathe, whole level center, you know, whatever it may be. And then tracking is just you have to be in it a lot. Like you can't teach tracking here either. Besides, you know, being able to look for blood, being able to look for you know, things that are out of place, and then just having you know, there's the grid idea. If you do lose blood, being able to grid or have a more educated guess in the direction they elk we're going will typically you know, pay off. But it does take a lot of experience. I've been fortunate to be on a lot of blood trails, you know, some good, some bad, and I learned from all of those. Go out there and elk count with the purpose, whether it's being successful, whether it's having fun. I know when we talk about you know, purpose, a lot of times we dwell on the or we talk about the success, which is I think what the majority of the listeners are tuning in for. But there are other reasons. You know, go out there, have fun, give it more effort, be more methodical in your decisions. Everything should add up to finding success. And I promise that if you go out there and elk count with the purpose and success is part of that, you're gonna have more fun. Maybe you know, there may be somebody that that you know doesn't like the type too fun and just assume not have to pack an elk out. But for anybody that I know, anybody I've talked to, you like, you're going to have more fun when you're successful and go out there, you know, set a goal, have a purpose, do everything you need to to make it happen. And we appreciate all of you tuning into cutting the distance and good luck out there this fall as you chase Alchrayn