00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman. 00:00:16 Speaker 2: This is a production of the bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast presented by f h F Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the place. 00:00:38 Speaker 1: As we explore, we have got a lot to cover today, Fellas and lady. 00:00:48 Speaker 2: We've put off a very important thing that needs to happen in the bear grease world that hadn't happened in a long time. We're not doing it today, but I want to talk about it today. 00:01:02 Speaker 1: So it's so important that we have to plan this and I want, I want. 00:01:08 Speaker 2: Uh, Well, there's a couple of reasons why we haven't done it yet, but it's it's going to be spurred on by this picture. This is a picture of Granny Henderson. This These are the photos that were in National Geographic in nineteen seventy seven. 00:01:26 Speaker 3: I looked those up after you mentioned them. 00:01:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I had these frame to put here in the in the office. 00:01:32 Speaker 1: But in the next month we're going. 00:01:35 Speaker 2: To do a bear Grease induction into the Hall of Fame. There's not been a not I'm not saying she's going to be on it. 00:01:44 Speaker 4: She should be. 00:01:46 Speaker 5: She it's just I smell a nomination. 00:01:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, there there might be a little foreshadowy in there. But think about the last time we did an induction was at least a year and. 00:01:56 Speaker 1: A half ago. 00:01:57 Speaker 2: Brand because yeah, because when you have a Hall of Fame, you can't just let every little TICKI tack Joe Schmoe you talk about be in the Hall of Fame. 00:02:06 Speaker 6: Yeah, like somebody passes away or if you retire from baseball, is like five years before you can vote on them going in. So it's not emotional. Emotional, you got to look at the merit, right. 00:02:19 Speaker 2: So, so it's been a long time and we're actually gonna we're building a plaque that's gonna have brass plates on it. It's gonna say Bear Grease Hall of Fame. 00:02:29 Speaker 6: Like this one that says my name. 00:02:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's gonna have all the inducteems for five years. 00:02:35 Speaker 2: It's gonna have inductees and under the inductee's name, I would like to put the years they were alive and if they're still alive today, which we have multiple Bargrease Hall of Famers that are still alive today. 00:02:46 Speaker 1: You know we'll leave that open. We won't. 00:02:49 Speaker 2: James Lawrence, Roy Clark, Warner Glenn, who's like eighty nine I think now still will still ranching, still. 00:03:00 Speaker 1: Ranching down there. So but I want you to be thinking about it. 00:03:04 Speaker 2: So, Brent, I want you to be thinking about I'll tell you where we stopped. We stopped when we got to Davy Crockett. So the members of the current members of the Bear Grease Hall of Fame, just so you kind of get the idea of who's in it is. Daniel Boone. James Lawrence was actually the first. I'm going to call James Lawrence the first. James is my friend in Arkansas backwoodsman still alive, Roy Clark, who is a plot breeder, bear hunter extraordinariy over in East Tennessee. 00:03:42 Speaker 1: Roy Clark. 00:03:43 Speaker 2: I don't even want to tell people how many bears he's been responsible for killing, not because it's illegal, because like when you hear about like like guys killing you know, like five hundred bears in their lifetime. 00:03:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can tell you that Roy Clarks killed a lot more than that. 00:04:01 Speaker 2: That was within like two weeks ago and I asked him and another guy that was with us, and they. 00:04:05 Speaker 1: Didn't even have a number. 00:04:07 Speaker 2: And it's not it's not just ones that he pulled the trigger on, but participated in. 00:04:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, and his dog's treat. So okay, I'm sorry. 00:04:15 Speaker 2: Daniel Boone, Roy Clark, James, Lawrence Warner, Glenn Frederick Gerstacker, the the Arkansas well, he was a German bear hunter came to Arkansas, yeaher and Gershtalker was the first, well, the fourth. The third episode of bear Grease was called Death of a Bear Hunter. People still talk about that. That's the one Joe Rogan talked about. Yeah, and uh, and it was all about Frederick Gerstchuker and so Gershtalker. One that you may have forgotten but is very well deserved is or a Lee Provence. 00:05:00 Speaker 6: Oh gosh, I did forget. 00:05:01 Speaker 2: He passed away a month after I interviewed him, at the age of ninety two. And he killed the two bucks in nineteen sixty six that scored in the one eighties in the ozarks On public land. And he was just a he'llbilly but but just like I just loved him and just it was just the epitome like, I'll never meet anybody in my lifetime that was more from another era. 00:05:27 Speaker 6: Wasn't he the one that pointed you towards. 00:05:30 Speaker 2: Guards, right, He's the one who told me where he believed Erskine was Firskin And I want to I'm kind of weaving. 00:05:40 Speaker 6: You know. 00:05:40 Speaker 1: Donald Trump does the weave. They say that's what he said when he. 00:05:44 Speaker 6: Talked, Well, no, no, he the tapestry. 00:05:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a new thing that he's so I'm kind of doing that. But Orley Provence when me and Mo Shepherd basically communicated with him, he said, I'll tell you where it is, but don't tell anybody else because there's a place that or hunted. It was like a good hunting spot. And so I said, great, I won't tell anybody where it's at. And we made that promise and I've held that promise. People asked me all the time where it's at, even to the point of someone writing a book wanted to include it as a destination in this like American big American book of Destinations and was going to do this big rite up on it and it was going to be like a big deal. And they came to me and were certain that I would tell them where it was based upon the project, how about the. 00:06:43 Speaker 1: News, And. 00:06:46 Speaker 5: I just said, and take a left. 00:06:48 Speaker 2: Well, I just said, I said, I promised a dead man that I was not going to tell him. I mean, maybe if I could go back and negotiate with him, like I could, but I said. 00:06:57 Speaker 5: You're bound to secrecy for the rest, I will. 00:07:00 Speaker 1: Tell where it's at, so that province is in there. 00:07:04 Speaker 7: And he also I think one of the most interesting things about Or is he got drafted. His number came up in the draft, and his brothers had already gone to war, but he his preacher wrote a letter and asked if they could wait till after the tomato crop came in, because his dad had died and his brothers were all at the war and they needed someone to help his mom with a tomato crop. So they gave him a deferral. And the war ended in September and he was supposed to go in October. 00:07:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he did. 00:07:33 Speaker 6: Yeah. I remember that man. 00:07:34 Speaker 1: He he was the. 00:07:35 Speaker 2: Youngest son, and his brothers were at war and his father died. Yeah, And so it wasn't like he was trying to get out of going like he was. 00:07:46 Speaker 1: He wanted to go. 00:07:47 Speaker 2: But they but they needed a man there to help with the family, you know. 00:07:52 Speaker 6: And and im we raised tomatas man. I really had to thought about that go to war. 00:08:01 Speaker 1: You think was probably like, yeah, he's like. 00:08:10 Speaker 2: A story that stands out in my mind that or he told me was he said one day he and his brother were coon hunting out here in the ozarks and his brother they had guns and were coon hunting, and he said they saw a lantern out in the woods and they kind of start walking towards it and then and there's this bright light shining and uh, and they start hollering at. 00:08:31 Speaker 1: The light, like, hey, who are you? 00:08:33 Speaker 6: What's going on? 00:08:34 Speaker 2: I mean, this is way out where nobody should be and and he said the person wouldn't answer, and he said his brother was like, if you don't tell me who you are, I'm gonna shoot your light. Like they were going to like shoot at the light, which is like not a great idea, and uh, I'd have to go back and listen to see if he actually shot the light. But it ended up being the reflection of the moon in a small pool of water that they didn't. 00:09:05 Speaker 6: Know was there. 00:09:07 Speaker 2: I remember him, I remember him saying that, So, okay, where are we at. We've been weaving, We've we've we've got James Lawrence, Roy Clark. Uh no, no, no, no, we hadn't talked about. 00:09:23 Speaker 5: You got a couple more than Warner Glen uh Cumsa. 00:09:28 Speaker 2: T Cumsa, Sean Eleander Comsa, Holt Collier, which was the Mississippi Bear Hunter killed three thousand bears guided Teddy Roosevelt. 00:09:38 Speaker 1: People talk about that episode all the time and. 00:09:40 Speaker 5: One of my personal favorites George mcgonkin. 00:09:43 Speaker 1: And George mcjenkin who discovered this. 00:09:45 Speaker 6: George the last one or was the last one? 00:09:48 Speaker 5: I think Tacumsa was the last one. 00:09:49 Speaker 1: To Compsa was the last one. So that was a year and a half ago. 00:09:52 Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna throw out a few names of people that have been on. We've had a Davy Crockett episode since. 00:10:00 Speaker 3: That was going to be my nomination. 00:10:02 Speaker 2: We've had We've had a Granny Henderson, We've had a Barry Tarleton over in East Tennessee, the Moonshine and uh Constable that had the big line of plots. 00:10:14 Speaker 4: So are you making nominations? 00:10:15 Speaker 2: Are you? 00:10:16 Speaker 6: Well? 00:10:16 Speaker 2: Once we get the regulars, we're gonna get dad back up here, Gary Neukomb, and we have all the regulars here. I'm gonna put it on the table for nominations. 00:10:25 Speaker 7: But you're kind of you're kind of hinting right now, hinting yet who you want us to. 00:10:31 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, No, I mean need discuss this. 00:10:34 Speaker 2: We need to discuss this, because we really need to discuss like, what are the qualities of a Burger's Hall of Fame? 00:10:40 Speaker 6: Well, does it have to be someone that is that we've thought there's been an episode on Oh yeah. 00:10:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's got I mean, that's that. That is a qualification. 00:10:49 Speaker 7: Just have like a friend from high school, that Joe Dalton. 00:10:54 Speaker 6: He was a good buddy squirrel. 00:10:58 Speaker 2: You sure liked the podcast. I think we put him in the hall. That's That's so Berger's Hall Fame coming up. This is serious, Okay, the oh I was gonna I was gonna tell everybody. You remember Miles Malone from the Deer Stories episode the the branch full of acrons fell in front of his camera and he was checking his camera going out there to yeah camera Moultrie, Uh, Moultrie sent him a camera in like a year's worth of sell you your plan I wouldn't have to go, so he would have known that that buck was there before that. Yeah, Altrie listened to that and they were like this this this guy. 00:11:44 Speaker 1: We got this guy. They sent him a camera, which which I thought was cool. I thought it was very cool. 00:11:53 Speaker 6: Man. 00:11:54 Speaker 1: We're gonna let me introduce our guests, Miss Newclem. 00:11:58 Speaker 2: So great to have you. It's been a while since you've been here. Where have you been? 00:12:04 Speaker 4: Just I just know y'all keep the a c on. 00:12:08 Speaker 1: We're trying to get it cool in here. It's good to see it. 00:12:10 Speaker 2: It's good to be I want to talk to you about the Japanese study that I mentioned earlier. Brent Reeves. Always great to have you. And Brent spent a week down in Venice, Louisiana. 00:12:21 Speaker 1: I was a little you should have been there. 00:12:23 Speaker 6: It was good. 00:12:24 Speaker 5: That was you Any fly fishing, No it's not not. B redfish would be awesome. 00:12:30 Speaker 6: Anyway you want to catch those things. It's fun. Yeah, it was. 00:12:33 Speaker 1: It was fun. 00:12:34 Speaker 6: It was fun. 00:12:35 Speaker 5: I did eat some of that fish. 00:12:36 Speaker 2: Hey, what I tell you what I Yeah, I'll tell you what I learned down there. 00:12:40 Speaker 1: Brent good. 00:12:43 Speaker 6: Yeah, I was wondering because I'm not. 00:12:45 Speaker 4: A big fish eater. 00:12:46 Speaker 7: I hate it, Yeah, I hate it. 00:12:48 Speaker 2: I mean, listen, this is after a week of being in Venice. I love it down there. It's like a it's like a gritty Florida. 00:12:56 Speaker 5: Like Venice, the gritty Florida. 00:12:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:13:00 Speaker 2: But one thing I did learn is that the you feel like the culture in the South is really hospitable and very nice and like like. 00:13:12 Speaker 4: Gentleman an entire state. 00:13:14 Speaker 1: Well I'm not. I'm not. These people are the nicest people you've ever met in your life. 00:13:20 Speaker 2: But to the ear of a lot of this country, they would be rude. 00:13:27 Speaker 1: I'm not alienating. 00:13:30 Speaker 6: Don't look at me, Paul, I don't know you. 00:13:33 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. 00:13:34 Speaker 2: Let me give you an example. We walked into a restaurant and there's this lady there that we know, and I know that lady is pumped that we're down there, and she's like our best friend. And we walk in the restaurant and she immediately is like, now you' aren't gonna just sit anywhere you want. You are all going to have to sit together right here. 00:13:56 Speaker 6: That but it wasn't rude. It was grandmother me. Well, but said the same thing. Get your elballs off the table. Before I knock them before I break your arm, right, and you know that she loved you, but she probably would break you ar. 00:14:10 Speaker 1: I just felt like there was a trend. 00:14:12 Speaker 7: You would not break Clayson. I don't think she'd threaten. But yeah, we probably the world. 00:14:18 Speaker 6: I think. 00:14:19 Speaker 2: I think there's a trend. If this is actually a compliment to them, it's not. It's not a dig even remotely, but they there's a there's a trend of being like very direct and very antagonistic to people they like. 00:14:32 Speaker 5: I get that. 00:14:33 Speaker 6: I don't think it's antagonistic. I just it's just giving you a hard time just the way it is. 00:14:37 Speaker 5: I get that work. 00:14:42 Speaker 4: Kind of like someone we know. 00:14:44 Speaker 1: Well, No, I love it down there. I love those people. Vince Verena as you go. 00:14:48 Speaker 6: Uh. 00:14:49 Speaker 1: Our real guest of the day is Kyle Man. You are good. You're uh you're up in uh. 00:14:57 Speaker 2: Northwest area you uh oh yeah, Kyle Kyle Carrol. He he's a painter, yeah, and a retired game warden and he painted too well. 00:15:13 Speaker 5: Not retired, but former state trooper. 00:15:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, retired state trooper. I retired as a trooper, was most of the time was a game board most of that career. But yeah, it's both as true. So yeah, reforming, reforming. 00:15:24 Speaker 1: You know, what are you painting these days? Kyle? 00:15:27 Speaker 3: Uh? 00:15:27 Speaker 1: You know? 00:15:28 Speaker 3: Actually the thing that's on the eastle that's been on there for a month because I've been doing other stuff. His Bear sent me a little shot. Remember last fall when you were in that big rock house. 00:15:37 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, with the the rock house. Yeah, and I fire under. 00:15:41 Speaker 3: I was trying to put a couple of long runners in that little rock house. There's not much to work with, but that's what school. 00:15:47 Speaker 1: So it's a picture that Bear sent background. 00:15:51 Speaker 2: Kyle also sent me a big buck. It was like an eleven point mister October. Yeah, but that was incredible. That was like a very realistic painting of a big buck. What you could tell it was in October to just by the way the l. 00:16:07 Speaker 3: That's the trade. 00:16:08 Speaker 6: Oh yeah you did. 00:16:09 Speaker 3: You You got me this arrow that we've been trying to get together on for that's the squirrel cookoff that's in my truck. So I go a half mile back to his truck and he's doing the clicker from there. They won't open. I'm like, forget it, I'm going on. So we finally got together on it. 00:16:24 Speaker 4: So that is that a flintnet. 00:16:27 Speaker 6: Yeah, this is. 00:16:30 Speaker 1: It was just one that didn't really fly good. It looks good, but it's. 00:16:34 Speaker 6: For the students. 00:16:37 Speaker 2: You're working on that back there. Yeah, I'm working on an elmbow. I showed this last time, but I've made a little bit of progress since. But I'm doing a like a rounded belly on this one, so it'll be a little different than most of the bows I make. But I still hate working with ELM. The more the more I work with this one, the more I realize O Sages is king. 00:16:59 Speaker 6: Yep. 00:17:00 Speaker 2: Well, in course we have Josh and bear with us. Thanks here, Hey Misty, Okay, so did you hear my description of the tell us about the So the first Osseola podcast was basically Ostiola's childhood and I talked about identity being really a powerful time for lifelong identity between the ages of nine and thirteen. Oka describe that study better than I did. 00:17:29 Speaker 7: Well, Yeah, so that study and there have been some studies that don't completely align with this, but that study shows that they the Japanese government, you know, Japan and California. There's there's a lot of people going back and forth, traveling back and forth between Japan and California and probably other parts of the of the US on the West coast. And I think it was a Japanese government that basically sponsored a study to or wanted to understand how people maintain their sense of Japanese identity even if they even if they travel, and whether or not they do. 00:18:04 Speaker 4: And that particular. 00:18:05 Speaker 7: Study that you quoted showed that the thing that determined whether they did wasn't anything that you did in childhood, but was the specific time period that they lived outside of Japan. So if they lived in Japan, you know, between the ages of zero and nine, but then moved to the US, and then even if they came back like after the age of fourteen, if they lived in the US generally during that period of nine to thirteen, that time period was significant in determining whether or not they came back and said I'm an American or. 00:18:40 Speaker 1: If they were in America during that time period that they thought they were. 00:18:42 Speaker 7: If they were there America, if they were there, if they were in the US as as little kids and then moved to Japan between the age of nineteen to thirteen, they said I'm Japanese. 00:18:54 Speaker 4: If they lived in the US. 00:18:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, I did a pretty good job of describing that between nineteen So okay, so here's the question. 00:18:58 Speaker 2: Where were you ka when you between the ages of nine and thirteen running. 00:19:03 Speaker 3: The hills of north west Missouri? 00:19:05 Speaker 2: And then that produced kind of an exact lifelong identity. 00:19:10 Speaker 7: And there's studies at Show and I think this is kind of interesting and thinking about like someone running around in the hills of northwest Missouri, the study of that Japanese study, there's actually studies at show. Well that's not exactly the case, but what's going on between the ages of nine and thirteen is pretty important because that's that is. 00:19:27 Speaker 1: Like a very well documented I mean, what's going on, what's. 00:19:29 Speaker 4: Going on in the brain. 00:19:30 Speaker 7: There's a well, very well documented process that Josh was. 00:19:33 Speaker 6: The fourth grade. 00:19:34 Speaker 7: They call it the brain all four years, all four years. 00:19:39 Speaker 5: The fourth grade, a fourth grade, fourth fourth grade. 00:19:42 Speaker 3: But you got it. 00:19:44 Speaker 6: I'm so sorry. 00:19:45 Speaker 4: I mean, I have something very intelligent to share here. 00:19:48 Speaker 7: We're talking about Josh and repetition of the fourth grade. It's fictitious, right, I mean, you didn't even have it all the great brain remodel, like that's what they are. Maybe they don't call it the Great brain reymodel. 00:20:03 Speaker 1: I call it. 00:20:04 Speaker 7: They do call it brain remodeling, and it's basically, you know, when you're a little kid, you just absorb everything. Like you see, little kids can just pick up languages when they go to other other places way easier than their parents can. And that's because your brain is just absorbing everything. Well, there's too much, like the brain can't handle for this whole entire life, absorbing everything until around that time period at the at the start of puberty or right before kids start to. 00:20:29 Speaker 1: Basically this show has kids listening to it, let's try not to use. 00:20:33 Speaker 7: Yeah, I heard some of the words, so they they they start to prune out some of the those those the brain starts to prune and basically what it uses it really strengthens. It's like kind of the user lose it time period. And of course the brain can change. 00:20:50 Speaker 2: Kids using their hands if they're on a computer screen. 00:20:56 Speaker 7: No language when they're five, but then move away from a country and when you're twenty three, you're like, you spoke that fluently when you were five. Well their brain was like, yeah, we didn't really use that from the age just nine to twenty five, so you know, not important anymore. So it kind of prunes out what it doesn't use, but it really strengthens what it does use. So that's what is going on in middle school. You know, for most Americans, they would be in middle school at that time, but that age range, and so it's not that you can't change after that, but it's just the brain is kind of cleaning itself out and really honing. 00:21:28 Speaker 3: In print and what's going on in their life too, not just their skills. Like when when your guests talked about Bonnie and Clyde, you know that outlaw part of it. I immediately I'd already thought about Jesse James and his nine to thirteen year old growing up and his dad being hung in the barn and war and dying and the you know, the all the stuff on the border, and it's kind of a similar time period and what then they're capable of. But then we somehow revere their staying against you know that all that's tied up in that. So I thought that I thought of that too when the age the age thing. 00:22:06 Speaker 1: After nine and thirteen prison wearing a pair overalls. 00:22:11 Speaker 6: I was nine and thirteen. I was man, living life, not wearing shoes and running amok. I mean I didn't. 00:22:19 Speaker 2: That was the most what's still a little Brent Reeve biopiece here years Okay, so nine would have been from seventy five to nineteen seventy nine. 00:22:34 Speaker 1: I was born in nineteen seventy nine. 00:22:37 Speaker 6: I was hitting. 00:22:37 Speaker 1: You could have been my father. 00:22:41 Speaker 5: You were old enough. 00:22:43 Speaker 1: That's not that's not true. 00:22:44 Speaker 6: Your ground, oh man. I was hitting home runs at the wide little league field. Hmm. 00:22:51 Speaker 1: Did y'all know that Brent played like one season of college football. 00:22:55 Speaker 4: I didn't. 00:22:56 Speaker 6: I did not know that. I didn't wear it was. 00:22:58 Speaker 1: At least that's why I cover his backstory. 00:23:01 Speaker 6: It was last year. It was Boise, Idaho. It's cold Henderson State University. 00:23:07 Speaker 1: You know that's where Gary Nuklan went to college. 00:23:09 Speaker 6: I did. I saw a plaque. There's a rocket chair there, just like this, got Gary Nictom's name here. 00:23:18 Speaker 8: A lot of. 00:23:21 Speaker 6: None of which the the that that formative time, especially when she said that, when you've talked about that now, I think about you know, I didn't have the I had a wonderful childhood, but some children have issues, and I can remember during that time having issues growing up, behavioral issues where I was well, I wouldn't mean, I was mischievous and that has I'm still that still the same way, you know it was. I wasn't trying to make anybody mad or hurt anybody, but I was playing, which you know I played. I'm fifty eight years old and I've interrupted you three times being a kid, that's right, still being a kid, you know. So I see where that has a lot of correlation. There's got to be a lot of alidity to that, you know. 00:24:13 Speaker 1: I think about the even. 00:24:18 Speaker 2: And we talk about like recruiting kids into the outdoors and like when to start, and there's a lot of there's a lot of laws like in Arkansas, like you can a kid can hunt when they're six years old, actually hunt, but in a lot of other states they can't even hunt until they're. 00:24:32 Speaker 1: Like twelve, yeah, which which is surprising to me. 00:24:35 Speaker 6: It was, but. 00:24:37 Speaker 2: I think I was, yeah, six, and that was just changed a few years ago. There was no law, and I think like two year old started like checking in there. 00:24:46 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you'd see dear pictures of during youth weekend. There's three year old sitting up. 00:24:54 Speaker 1: There a big book. 00:24:57 Speaker 4: Six month old can't hold its head up. 00:24:59 Speaker 3: That's well the last book, Yeah, and you really can't go interrogate a three year old. Yeah, nice buy. 00:25:07 Speaker 2: Well, okay, so talking about hunting, and so I would I would have been nine to thirteen, between like nineteen eighty eight, nineteen ninety two or something, which was the which was the beginning of the American whitetail industrial complex. 00:25:26 Speaker 1: Just let that sink in for a minute. 00:25:28 Speaker 6: You just make that up. 00:25:29 Speaker 2: I've heard my friend Steve Vernelli say that phrase before, but he's and I think he's the one that made it up. But basically, when white tails became big business, that's when it's not the North America white tail started in like the late seventies, but in the nineties is when it just like blew up. That's when that's when videoso vhs. That's when Will Primos, Nightinghale, the Druris, Dan Fitzgerald, all the people started coming on the scene. That's when hunting TV started like blowing up more and so in then in that period a time, like I just became super infatuated with like watching all the stuff and hunting, you know, and it just it almost feels like it could it could never leave, you know. 00:26:22 Speaker 7: But interesting, Yeah, it is kind of interesting if you look at the all the guys like Bill Gates, Uh, Steve Jobs, all the guys that got big in tech. They had access to computers at that when they were really young at their schools, and most schools didn't have them at that age, and they were the ones that went on, yeah, to be early developers. So it's kind of like you guys with at that crucial period. But but I think what's kind of cool about the human brain is that you actually can still learn stuff even if you didn't get exposed to at that period. It's and thinking about Osceola, you know, he he was really exposed to these these stories when he was younger, younger than that time period. But it's not like everything when you're younger goes away. It's just the things that are not reinforced during that age period. And so it's clear that that was a he was a big key figure in his life even still through that time that that kind of allowed him. 00:27:14 Speaker 1: To Josh, let's do the trivia. Let's let's just jump right into trivia. 00:27:18 Speaker 4: Okay, So I am not going to do well trivia. 00:27:24 Speaker 2: I have some I have a few questions. Josh has a few questions, but I'm not going to participate, but. 00:27:29 Speaker 5: No, I want you to participate. 00:27:31 Speaker 1: Oh you want me to participate? Okay, Well here's how it's gonna work. 00:27:33 Speaker 4: Is that even fair? 00:27:34 Speaker 1: It's like Kevin, Yeah, I don't think it. 00:27:36 Speaker 5: I don't think it's Well, maybe at least you you participate. It's the last We're gonna get some boards so we can write answers down because I don't like this everybody just blurting things out where everybody can write, write something down. So next, next, So so what are the rules? 00:27:54 Speaker 1: Then let's very quickly. We don't need to belabor it. 00:27:57 Speaker 5: Okay. What I want is I want for everybody to answer and be honest. Don't just say it, okay, don't change Yeah, don't change your answer as if you wrote it down, and we'll just keep it keep track of who gets. 00:28:10 Speaker 3: So okay, I'm asking for Brent mostly, But what if we don't have an answer, then I'm just saying, you know, I'm not saying that I always pick c. 00:28:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Josh, let's just move through pretty quick. Let's not take a lot of a lot of time. 00:28:24 Speaker 5: But okay, number one, when did the seminole Wars start and end? 00:28:32 Speaker 2: Bear ended in seventeen sixty three. 00:28:38 Speaker 3: Oh gosh, that was the Prench in Indian War. 00:28:41 Speaker 1: I remember when it started. Eight Okay, well he didn't answer the whole question when they started. 00:28:48 Speaker 3: In, Yeah, it did. 00:28:50 Speaker 4: I think we got to raise our hand if we know the answer. 00:28:52 Speaker 3: Okay, that'd be better. 00:28:55 Speaker 6: Numbers. Yeah, okay, Brent, what is it eighteen seventeen? In eighteen eighteen? 00:29:00 Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's when it started. 00:29:01 Speaker 5: That's when it started. 00:29:02 Speaker 6: When did it end? Oh eighteen twenty three? No, I don't, I just forkid. 00:29:07 Speaker 1: It started in? 00:29:08 Speaker 2: There were a couple basically between eighteen seventeen and eighteen nineteen. It started, but it ended in eighteen fifty eight. 00:29:14 Speaker 6: I can start in eighteen seventeen eighteen, between eighteen. 00:29:18 Speaker 2: Like there's like when it started. As actually you hear people say to the. 00:29:23 Speaker 5: Podcast, it started in eighteen seventeen ended eighteen. These are all derived from the podcast. So we're going on, what the number two? Raise your hand? If you know the answer, howld old on, let me. 00:29:36 Speaker 1: Let me let's let's let's yeah, let's go through this pretty quick. It was already raised no, no, no, no, no. 00:29:42 Speaker 5: Forty one year four forty one years. 00:29:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, how long has the as the U was the US in Afghanistan twenty twenty yep, I mean world war World War one was four years, World War two was. 00:29:56 Speaker 1: Six, Vietnam was twelve or ten. 00:30:00 Speaker 3: Who knows, depending on when you It. 00:30:03 Speaker 6: Ended in seventy two, and it's kind of conjecture on when it really started. 00:30:06 Speaker 1: See that's just like the start. Yeah, but forty one years of war, I mean that's like massive. That's okay, all right, good job. 00:30:16 Speaker 5: Question number two. Raise your hand if you know the answer. How much were the seminole people paid for the twenty eight million acres annexed by the US per acre? Nope, not per acre. That's all I got that And that answer was less than not a full So be honest with your Okay. 00:30:36 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go two hundred and twenty one thousand. 00:30:41 Speaker 3: I'm a less than if you won't accept the lesson a cent an acre. 00:30:45 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it was. I'm twenty one thousand, is what I'm thinking in my head. 00:30:49 Speaker 4: I was thinking two hundred and eighteen. 00:30:52 Speaker 5: The answer is Baron Newcomb two hundred and. 00:30:59 Speaker 2: So what was astonishing about that? And it's hard to it's it's when you're talk about money from that far back, it is hard. 00:31:06 Speaker 1: Obviously it was going to be a lot less. 00:31:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, but they paid like a sixty third of a cent per acre, which. 00:31:17 Speaker 1: Even back which back then was not a lot of money. 00:31:19 Speaker 6: Yeah. No, here's a contrast. I got a podcast coming out Friday. I don't know when this is coming out, but anyway, on the one that I'm talking about, there's a guy that tried to barter a section of land for fourteen deer dogs. And you figured that out today. It was over two hundred thousand dollars for fourteen dogs. 00:31:41 Speaker 4: Wow wow. 00:31:43 Speaker 6: And they gave those folks less than a cent wow for an acre. Yeah. 00:31:47 Speaker 3: And then then they renigged on that trick. 00:31:50 Speaker 2: Yeah you know right, Oh yeah, yeah, that was that was the astonishing part of that is that they they made this, they made this treaty, which not all of the Muskogie creeks, I mean they they didn't agree to it. 00:32:03 Speaker 1: There were just some people there. 00:32:05 Speaker 6: Here, this is what we're going to do. 00:32:07 Speaker 2: And and and there were, as I understand it, some Muskogie creeks creeks that that did sign it. But that doesn't mean that all of them did. And they didn't have a centralized government, you know, so the the Americans just were coming from this like European mentality of centralized government. There's presidents and leaders that speak for the people. 00:32:25 Speaker 1: But they did not. 00:32:28 Speaker 2: I mean, it's like their way of governing was just so different. And then so they agreed to it, and uh. 00:32:34 Speaker 6: But then it was revoked. 00:32:35 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:32:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then like six years later they're like, tell you what, never forget that, forget that fourth out. You know, four million acres, which was peanuts even then, but a four million acre reservation that the seminoles were supposed to stay on. They were like, hey, we're going to take that to you' all, go on to Oklahoma. 00:32:54 Speaker 5: Crazy, Okay. Question number three, according to doctor Wickman, approximately how many seminoles were believed to be in Florida at the highest point in the early part of the worst. 00:33:05 Speaker 4: Raise your hand if you know the answer, look at it, Old Baron new what is it. 00:33:11 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, five thousand, five thousand. 00:33:14 Speaker 5: The answer is five thousand. 00:33:17 Speaker 1: What were you doing between the ages of nine and thirteen? I was mosy around. 00:33:24 Speaker 6: He was. 00:33:27 Speaker 5: Okay. Question number four described Osceola as five foot eight inches high with a manly frank and open countenance. 00:33:38 Speaker 1: The guy's name. The other guy's name, Oh man, I may know his first name, but I don't. I don't remember his full name. 00:33:45 Speaker 2: Okay, John Sprague, Okay, I'm gonna. 00:33:50 Speaker 1: I'm gonna you didn't even give us a chance. 00:33:53 Speaker 5: You didn't know nobody had nobody had it. 00:33:55 Speaker 2: Well, see, now I'm gonna critique, like does show Rinella does on his program that he's in charge of that, he's in charge of the ratings for it and charging whether a successful or fails. 00:34:11 Speaker 1: He gets to talk about it. 00:34:12 Speaker 2: See that that question was such a tertiary question, Like nobody cares what that guy's name was, But trivia has gotta have some tinge of like fun to it. 00:34:26 Speaker 1: Okay, that was not fun. 00:34:29 Speaker 5: What was the name of the Indian agent that Osceola assassinated? Your hand? 00:34:34 Speaker 1: You should know that one. What come on, guys, wait mentioned at least six times his first name Thomas. Yeah, where you're in the family of names? 00:34:48 Speaker 4: Tom? 00:34:51 Speaker 6: Tom? 00:34:51 Speaker 5: Okay, you're you're a couple of vowels, right, you got it backwards? Okay, nobody has an answer. His name was Wiley Thompson, not Tom Willie. 00:35:03 Speaker 2: Let's talk talk about let's talk about It's okay if we talk about that. 00:35:08 Speaker 1: Here's here's the other. 00:35:09 Speaker 2: This is a little inside beargrease thing. Part of the quiz too, is that it gives us, it gives us entry points to talk about what was going on. So it's okay if we're like having like meaningful conversation about. 00:35:22 Speaker 5: The I thought that part was really interesting in the podcast because the fact that Wiley Thompson puts in irons like it just unilaterally made a decision with no authority behind it, to lock this guy up. I mean, I think Wiley Thompson would have had to have known enough about Ostiola to know that this is a bad idea, like this is not going to turn on. 00:35:46 Speaker 6: Maybe it was just plumb arrogance. I think ultimately led to his demise. 00:35:52 Speaker 1: I think oola was. 00:35:56 Speaker 2: I mean, you saw it documented several times in there that that he would I mean, he would lie to a Indian agent I mean, which I'm not really faulting him for because I mean, these people were like trying to kill them or steal their land. So but but he would he would say, I mean, he was kind of a trick. 00:36:13 Speaker 1: He was cunning. If you remember in the description uh they they One of the guys said that that Ostiola was. 00:36:24 Speaker 5: When he talked about his mind, his mind was active, not sharp, not strong, not strong, active, nothing. 00:36:30 Speaker 2: And I think like if you would have described I'm just reading in, like big time reading in. But the impression that I get, like the research I've done in Ostiola, is that, I mean he. 00:36:40 Speaker 1: Was like a wily guy, like a tricky guy. 00:36:44 Speaker 2: Like he'd look at you and say, hey, this is what we're gonna do, and then he'd slip around and and you know, do something completely different now like a lot of the and and And that's not a I'm not saying that's a fault. He was doing what he had to do to build this resistance of just what it's just what it took. But anyway, so I think maybe Wiley Thompson did not know who he was dealing with, like he he felt like he was dealing with just like it. 00:37:13 Speaker 3: Could be that this guy was, like Brent said, just you are going to kind of be the law west of the pay Coast. You know, you're gonna have to be in charge. But he might have been one of those overbearing type you know, this is I'm in charge. I'll do whatever I want. And that's the wrong guy, that's the wrong kind of personality. 00:37:33 Speaker 6: Well, he was used to also, he was used to dealing folks that recognized his authority. Yeah, those folks are exactly this dude. What's his name? We can get his name right now. 00:37:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, treat people like you want to be treated, because it might come back and bite you. 00:37:48 Speaker 6: Yeah, I've known, I don't know you well enough to miss you if you died. Now you're going to tell me that I got to get into Calaboose. Yeah, I got something for you. 00:37:56 Speaker 2: Can you imagine being an Indian, a US Indian agent. They so their job was to befriend, just deal with, communicate with, live with to some degree, lie to lie too, Yeah, just yeah, and so yeah, boy, that would have been an interesting job to be a US Indian agent. 00:38:20 Speaker 1: A lot of those guys got killed too. A lot of them got killed. 00:38:25 Speaker 6: It'd be interesting to know how many of them, the percentage of them actually looked out the situation, being as it was not that they manufactured, but how many of them actually worked in the best interest of the natives. I think the percentage is low. 00:38:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and I think it would be hard to quantify that too, because I mean it's like different scenarios might be, might be it would be. 00:38:57 Speaker 8: Very hard, very hard to go Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Josh, Josh, what was the name of the US general who captured Osila under a flag of truce? 00:39:11 Speaker 6: Schwartz cough? Oh forgot to raise man, no. 00:39:18 Speaker 2: Man, remember now this this is okay, I'm a little a little disappointed, guys. 00:39:24 Speaker 5: Okay, the answer is General Jessup. 00:39:30 Speaker 1: Sure, now, okay. 00:39:31 Speaker 2: What was not in the podcast was that Jessup was one of the longest serving US military generals of all time. He was in the US military military for fifty two years as a general. 00:39:44 Speaker 6: Wow. 00:39:45 Speaker 2: He started in like nineteen or eighteen early in the Seminole Wars and like went like to the Civil War. 00:39:53 Speaker 3: Wow. 00:39:54 Speaker 6: Oh, Doug Gum also es. Yeah. He did not win any friends for that either. 00:40:00 Speaker 2: Well you heard you heard it how they were like they were ridiculing him fifty years later. 00:40:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, because of the deception, flag of truce and all that. But you know, I thought of listening to that on the way down. Remember when Boone goes out at Boonsboro and they're going to have the talk with the Indians and the Indians are like, okay, on three go and they try to grab him. That's the same thing the other way. You know, it's but we would look down on that as deception. They looked down on and it was it was dirty, dirty pool. 00:40:30 Speaker 6: But yeah, wars war man. 00:40:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I thought too, kind of. 00:40:36 Speaker 6: War's war if they'd had a chance to get jessup, if he's dumb enough to walk into it. 00:40:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know, and that's where you get. 00:40:45 Speaker 2: You get these little like micro windows into that world that I think paint the picture of what it was like. The thing the thing about it was that made it so tricky is that he had met with military US military generals like bunches of times before. 00:41:00 Speaker 6: And but I mean, now that had to go into the planet. I think we can get him here. If we just get him here, we'll get him caught, we'll and we'll go on. I'm not agreeing with it, Yeah, but I understand it's just a war. 00:41:14 Speaker 7: And ahead, well, isn't a flag of truce so different? I mean, like that's a big deal in war. 00:41:20 Speaker 6: It wouldn't have been had I been in Tora Bora and Osama Bin Louden walked out of a cave waving a white flag that had just been a place where we're going to orient our fire. It's just sometimes it's just what it is. 00:41:34 Speaker 3: They talked about the honor of war about that time, and they told a story about Lafayette's dogs. Yea, and if you remember The Patriot in the movie The Patriot, they used that story with those dogs and the kind of the back and forth between Oh that that's where that comes from. 00:41:50 Speaker 6: It was in the movie. 00:41:51 Speaker 3: It wasn't within the dog scene, but yeah, that's where that comes from. 00:41:54 Speaker 1: Tell us that story. Have you been in the movie? 00:41:57 Speaker 3: Oh well that was twenty five years ago. I know it was because what the Patriot? 00:42:02 Speaker 1: The Patriot? 00:42:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. It wasn't like right with milk somebody. No, he went riding by several times. But no, it was the way that happened was they were shooting this in the Carolina is because it was based on Francis Marion. And I mean there's a lot of connections. That's another thing about this podcast that so many connections to other parts of history. That was that was cool. But yeah, that was they were they needed reenactors. They could get extras to fill background. You know, for stuff, but they needed reenactors when they started shooting the big battle scenes and stuff that somebody that had already closed. 00:42:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you had that, you were a reenactor. 00:42:42 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:42:43 Speaker 3: So they buddy of mine was there and he said contact some I don't remember now there was. It was pre pre cell phone, pre computer, no digital stuff. But I sent him some stuff and they said, yeah, come on out. So he had to go through a process and then they had to outfit you in wardrobe. And so I wanted a ponytail, you know, in a queue like, and they said, we got a lot of those guys. So I get a Dutch boy. 00:43:05 Speaker 1: So I don't know what that means. 00:43:07 Speaker 3: Well, it's just a Dutch boy wig that came. Its kind of a blew in my eyes every day all day. It was terrible. 00:43:13 Speaker 2: But so you were an extra war scenes Yeah, yeah, so you were like shooting a musket. 00:43:19 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:43:20 Speaker 3: I was supposed to be a guy stepping out front and they were going to zero in on us and actually shoot because I knew the armor on the set, and every time we started to do that, it rained and that never happened. But the stuff that I worked on, I'm just you're like furniture kind of your background, you know. But the scene where he comes back. 00:43:37 Speaker 1: With can you see yourself in the movie. 00:43:39 Speaker 3: I'm like those little guys in uh what what's the movie? 00:43:43 Speaker 6: Uh? 00:43:44 Speaker 3: They say, you can see my hand if you look. Yeah, now, if you freeze frame it, you can, but you're not gonna Yeah, yeah I can show you you were there though, Oh yeah, yeah it was, and it was. What's cool is you get a you get a little bit of sense certain times, a little magic for a certain kind of time of day, and all that stuff is there that you can't you're not visualizing. It's right there, you know. Mister you have to go, So it's kind of cool. 00:44:08 Speaker 2: Miss Newcomb has to go. Thank you, Thank you for coming support us. Mistery actually has a real job. You can't just sit around podcast for a living being a podcast or even a real job. 00:44:20 Speaker 1: No, it's not, but h Pristy has a real job. 00:44:23 Speaker 5: So thanks mister. 00:44:24 Speaker 3: Good to see miss. 00:44:26 Speaker 6: Okay. 00:44:27 Speaker 3: Anyway, that's how that happened. It was fun. 00:44:29 Speaker 2: All right, Let's bring in our next guest. 00:44:32 Speaker 1: Go get Tim. Do you think you could get Tim to sit right there? Yeah? I mean not for very long, but yeah, okay. 00:44:49 Speaker 9: Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry, I'm no, that's fine, that's that's what it was, and it was it was a good time. 00:44:54 Speaker 3: I had several buddies that were that did the same thing, and so there was a core group that was with the film all the time. So say no, they're going to be in this stuff and they can't just have they can't have a shot that. You got to go reshoot and have a different people. So what they did with us was they would once they had you photographed and all your stuff. They I had had a rev woar coach that came out of wardrobe. Everything else was mine and then the wig and I had a wound had a hand to And so the day we're shooting the scene where he comes back to the to the army and cheering and everything, they shoot it a few times. First time we were just yeah, we're whooping and who's on there and the horses flare off. So every time after that, what you see in the movie it's all pantomime, you know, yeah, oh yeah, no, we're not saying anything because the horse will get close enough to the to the call. Yeah. So then they finally get Gibson there. 00:45:46 Speaker 1: Says, my mules would have been fine. 00:45:48 Speaker 3: They should have had you do it, had you come back to the army with the mule and. 00:45:52 Speaker 5: Gets and riding the mule. 00:45:53 Speaker 3: Absolutely, But they stopped and they picked up section of us that was going to be right in the back of that, and they dusted us up and they fixed us all up, and and they came in. They were going to put a head wound on. They're gonna take my hat, put this head wound on. They had this fake blood, and I thought, I don't want to lose my hats, my hat, you know, so I said, have about a hand wood so they won't. They fixed my hand up. The guy next to me, they do head wound. Bloody em all up. He's in every shot. Always take the head wound. So it's like the guy the five and the you know, the guy with the head got the head, you know. So so you were standing by the guy with the hen you see him. I'm right there somewhere. 00:46:36 Speaker 2: Acne career would have been so much just take the head woond, that would have been. 00:46:41 Speaker 1: But that's pretty good fun, that's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, all right, this is good Josh. 00:46:46 Speaker 5: Okay. Last last real question is a date question, what year did ossi Ola and his family move to Florida? That was mentioned in there? I will give you a hint. It is very close to the start. That's what of the Seminole wars? 00:47:02 Speaker 6: I have a I have an answer. 00:47:04 Speaker 3: I'm gonna wait. See what Brent say. Brenton, what do you say? 00:47:06 Speaker 6: I must say, eighteen fifteen. 00:47:09 Speaker 5: Sixteen fourteen, eighteen fourteen is correct. 00:47:14 Speaker 3: It took a little trip that Yeah, that should have should have been remembered. 00:47:19 Speaker 2: Okay, I have a I have a couple of questions. Man, my questions are a little kind of heavy hitting here. 00:47:30 Speaker 6: So far that we actually listened. 00:47:31 Speaker 1: To it, yeah, makes for listening. 00:47:34 Speaker 6: Brent, You're welcome. 00:47:38 Speaker 2: Oh there was a there was a I don't even know how to pronounce it. 00:47:42 Speaker 1: We're gonna skip that one. 00:47:46 Speaker 2: What is one of the names of the of what the Seminoles called Florida, not not the not the not the the actual Indian name, but what it meant? 00:47:59 Speaker 1: There were two? There were two names. 00:48:01 Speaker 3: Can get close? 00:48:02 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, Josh, what what did they call Florida? 00:48:05 Speaker 5: Those of the deer. 00:48:06 Speaker 1: Nose of the deer? They called it like the I can't remember. 00:48:12 Speaker 2: It was like the Kyle something I know, the deer close brand. 00:48:16 Speaker 6: Do you remember something about water the pointed land. 00:48:19 Speaker 2: They called it the sharpened pointed land or the nose of the deer. 00:48:23 Speaker 6: I don't. 00:48:25 Speaker 3: That's what it got me. 00:48:28 Speaker 2: When I said that doctor Wickman, I was like, Wow, they knew the shape of Florida. And I realized kind of how dumb that is to think that they wouldn't ask. But you wouldn't have thought that they would have had a sense of that big of geography. But I mean even even on foot, like these people didn't have horses, Yeah they were. They were on foot and in canoes. That much land they they. 00:48:57 Speaker 3: Were made, that rounded point. But but yeah, I mean they didn't see an aerial photo. They couldn't have ever. It had to be either from other people talking to them something, you know. 00:49:08 Speaker 1: I thought that was pretty cool. 00:49:09 Speaker 3: It was cool. 00:49:09 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:49:10 Speaker 1: I also thought it was interesting. 00:49:12 Speaker 2: In the in the in the History of Florida section at the very beginning that doctor Wickman gave, she said that Florida was so critical to America. I wouldn't have known. I wouldn't have thought about why it would have been critical. I just thought, Wow, it's just attached so we need it, but it had so much exposure. And when you think about in history, where did people from Europe usually end up landing on the coast Florida? Yeah, I mean like that's where a lot of people came in. That's where uh Casa de Vaka that one of the first guys that came inland in the southeastern United States. 00:49:53 Speaker 1: They landed in Florida. 00:49:56 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Florida, right, Yeah, yeah, somewhere. 00:49:59 Speaker 1: And uh didn't Hernando de Soto and them start in Florida. 00:50:04 Speaker 6: I found up Mark. 00:50:06 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think of him more in the middle part of the country. But I don't know. 00:50:09 Speaker 1: You're mad, Missippi. 00:50:11 Speaker 2: But point being, it's a it's a critical geographic point for the protection of America. That's where we now have all these military bases and all this different stuff. 00:50:22 Speaker 1: But so that's pretty interesting. 00:50:25 Speaker 2: I was going to ask you guys, the type of polygamy when you when you married two sisters. 00:50:31 Speaker 6: Here we go. 00:50:32 Speaker 3: She said the word, but I didn't. 00:50:33 Speaker 1: It was hard to That's. 00:50:35 Speaker 2: Why the question has been I've decided it's called sore s O R. 00:50:42 Speaker 1: O R A L polygamy, s real sor sorrow sorrow. It was hard. She she pronounced it, and I couldn't. 00:50:51 Speaker 3: I thought she was saying Serialmy I'm like, how do you do that? 00:50:57 Speaker 6: A bunch of sisters? 00:50:58 Speaker 3: Yeah? 00:50:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was interest word for cake. Okay, now here's here's one. What was the name of the first Indian graduate of West Point? He was a Muskogee. 00:51:08 Speaker 5: I was going to put that in there. 00:51:11 Speaker 6: His name was. 00:51:14 Speaker 1: Anybody now, David Moniac yeh. 00:51:19 Speaker 3: Which that didn't come to me. I actually I felt like that it was cool that. 00:51:23 Speaker 2: Story set for me the time, and I mentioned it on the podcast. But you kind of get this feeling that like these people had never seen white people. 00:51:33 Speaker 6: Yeah, you. 00:51:36 Speaker 2: Just think, like, but then here this guy is a graduate from West Point. 00:51:41 Speaker 5: Can you imagine what it had been for a Native American to go through West Point at that time? 00:51:47 Speaker 6: It says volumes about that person that. 00:51:50 Speaker 5: Did no kidding, I mean, the the internal fortitude that that guy must have had was off the charts. I mean, the average Joe that goes through West Point goes through hillacious hazing and all that kind of stuff. Let alone at that time in history for a Native to go through the no HR available. 00:52:10 Speaker 2: Ship and then he's the first guy killed in the battle that he's in. 00:52:16 Speaker 6: It was. It was good that you reminded the listener, include myself, that the folks been interacting for three hundred years before. That was because you did get the impression. It was like, what is that? Yeah, oh it's a white guy. Yeah, that was not the case. It'd been there. 00:52:35 Speaker 5: Bonus question. I got a bonus question. The winner takes all. What is the name of the of Clay's aunt and uncle that lived in sophisticated Pennsylvania Tommy Kate. 00:52:52 Speaker 10: Karen aunt Karen, Yeah, and uncle Ben uncle Tony sophisticated, sophisticated, cultured Pennsylvania. 00:53:04 Speaker 1: I have Pennsylvania. 00:53:05 Speaker 3: That's a cool place. 00:53:07 Speaker 6: You don't get me in that in that dispute there because I love the folks in Pennsylvania, especially Bradford, Pennsylvania. 00:53:14 Speaker 1: Oh case knives. 00:53:16 Speaker 6: What a coincidence? Yeah, they are made there. 00:53:19 Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I got a quick story about them after you made that podcast about going there. I had this old pocket knife for my granddad's case knife, and you mentioned the number series on it. I think I sent you a note on that I cannot find. I look at it and I can't find a number to correspond with their charts. So I sent him an email. Somebody called me anyway, long story short. They said, if there's if it looks like yours looks it's pre nineteen forty. Yeah, so I know his knife was pre nineteen forty. 00:53:47 Speaker 6: Was this your grandfather? Yeah? 00:53:49 Speaker 3: And this thing is what it is, just and he didn't didn't do it on a grinder. He just sharp Now. He whittled all the time. They go up to the hardware store and loaf they called it loaf. They'd visit the old guys whittle, you know, sharpening it every day. Oh nice, But I skinned cone with it last year, as sharp as could be. 00:54:05 Speaker 2: So anyway, those are good folks Pennsylvania. No, it was just a cheap shot I would have taken with anybody. I would have taken with anybody. 00:54:15 Speaker 1: Okay, Uh, what stood out, Brent, Like, what what stood out to you? What did you learn on this podcast? 00:54:24 Speaker 6: I learned that much like Daniel Boone, ohs only had two wives. Oh gonna forget that. 00:54:35 Speaker 2: Maybe, Hey, you know what I had forgotten to is that, you know, I was like Boone wouldn't have cheated on Rebecca. Well, there's lore also that that Robert Morgan does not buy that Rebecca Boone had had a child with Boone's younger brother, Squire. 00:54:56 Speaker 1: I believe it was Squire or Nathan. I can't remember. That's right, that's right, I believe it Squire. And so you know, there was a story of Boone coming back from a two year hunting trip and his wife is Kralen and newborn son. That's lore, but Boone. 00:55:14 Speaker 2: Robert Morgan, the one who wrote the seminal book on Boone, said that everybody had that. That was like a common fable during that time because people there's no communication and men were going on these long trips, and it was just a very common fable that when you come home your wife has a new child, and so he doesn't think it happened. 00:55:39 Speaker 1: But anyway, carry on. 00:55:40 Speaker 6: What stood out to me was when you hear the tale of settlers and Native Americans, you immediately think of Wyoming in Arizona, New Mexico, and Idaho. You never, me personally, never think about Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas, everything where it initially started. Yeah, you always think about west. But it was going on for a long time before it ever crossed the Mississippi River, So that that stood out to me, and I'm going to kind of inspired me to do a little research on my own because it's it's tragic, beyond tragic, but very interesting in the history of our nation. 00:56:29 Speaker 1: It's a good point. 00:56:30 Speaker 2: And you know why I think that is is, you know, the almost put this in the podcast because I talked about how having war on your own land is different than having war somewhere else. So America's had a lot of wars in other places in the last one hundred years, but not here. Do you know when the last battle was fought on American soil? Like from a like an actual military engagement battle? 00:56:59 Speaker 6: I think, I do, what what would it be? Was it a state then in Alaska? 00:57:05 Speaker 1: I nope, nope, I don't think. 00:57:06 Speaker 3: That's that's what I was thinking of. 00:57:08 Speaker 6: Yeah, there was, there was an engagement in Alaska Aleutian Islands with Russia or something Japan Japanese troops. 00:57:16 Speaker 2: Really Okay, well, there there's probably some caveats. What what I learned was the Battle of Wounded Knee in eighteen ninety the Sioux Indians. Yeah, I've been there, American American government versus the Sioux in eighteen ninety. 00:57:30 Speaker 1: I mean, like that really wasn't that long ago. 00:57:34 Speaker 2: But well, okay, think about you know Osceola spoiler alert, he's going to die in eighteen thirty eight on the next episode, and. 00:57:44 Speaker 1: He's dead, you know, sixty years later. 00:57:48 Speaker 2: Sixty years later, they're still fighting Native Americans trying to drive them out. So point being, Uh, the reason I think we we remember of the Indian Wars of the West is because they were later when there was photography and there was just much more documentation. 00:58:08 Speaker 6: Checked this out. You said that was an eighteen ninety Yeah, I was born seventy years later. 00:58:13 Speaker 3: Really, my granddad was born eight. 00:58:17 Speaker 2: Years after that, So you were, you know, a seventy year old man or an eighty year old man when you were born would have been like, oh yeah, I remember the Battle of Wounded and he for real could have talked to him. 00:58:28 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:58:29 Speaker 2: Man, When you start thinking about history like that, it really you realize how short life is, or they or how short history history is. I mean, we we think like the eighteen hundreds of so long ago. Man, it was like yesterday, the. 00:58:42 Speaker 3: Last Civil War. Widow just died recently, yea, oh that's right. 00:58:47 Speaker 1: She was real young when she was married. 00:58:48 Speaker 6: Yeah, but I mean, there's your you're still receiving a pension. 00:58:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, yeah, uh no, but that's a good that's a good point. There was a lot of fighting going on over here. 00:59:00 Speaker 6: Yeah, it was duking it out everywhere. 00:59:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, Kyle, what's that to you? 00:59:05 Speaker 3: Well, the idea of the podcast or your question you asked a couple of time is why do they revere Osola at the time? Why do we still talk about him? And I think that for me what comes through there, there's a couple of things. And you know, the deal about the treaty, whether he stabbed it or whether he waved his knife or whatever he said to the last drop of blood, this is it right here. Well, when you're that kind of a leader and you have the appearance that he had, and they put that kind of effort into their appearance, and Indians did that, I mean, especially with leader Indians, you know, I mean they wanted to look like a strutton, turkey or whatever in the sun. They wanted that red. You know. Well, that to me is why I think one of the things that he was revered at the time, You always revere that kind of leader. And I thought to make it full circle. My wife is from Osceola County, Iowa. Her dad fought in World War Two. His unit, his their crest, regimental Crest was to the last man. 01:00:06 Speaker 1: Mmm. 01:00:06 Speaker 3: And there it is, you know, the war. Yeah, the warrior hero. You know, it's that doesn't mean everything about the person is was, you know, perfect or whatever. But when you have that kind of charisma and leadership and the ability to lead me in or to take on all odds, it's it's always inspiring to people, you know. So that's what that's what is it for me? 01:00:30 Speaker 1: What do you guys think about all this stuff? 01:00:34 Speaker 2: Obviously I find it interesting the lore versus what people actually think happened. Like, so you got in trouble, well with with with the slavery. 01:00:47 Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. 01:00:48 Speaker 3: I think she was too hard on you, but go ahead. 01:00:50 Speaker 2: Well I want to talk about that for sure, but like, uh, you know, like talking about like did he stab the treaty or not? 01:01:00 Speaker 6: Right? 01:01:01 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's probably a pretty good chance he did. 01:01:05 Speaker 2: But there's how much poetic license, you know, I mean, he was there, like we know that he had a knife. They said that the guy said he did have a knife, that he waved around, I mean. 01:01:26 Speaker 1: Justification. So I went on. 01:01:27 Speaker 2: I actually went online and looked at the treaty. You can just type it in, is it was it pains treaty. You can type it in and see this handwritten treaty. It's like nine pages long that some dude just wrote out, just put the date on. I mean, you know what, I guess they're not going to print. 01:01:45 Speaker 1: They're not going to be like print the treaty. 01:01:47 Speaker 2: I mean, so it had to be handwritten obviously, but but I mean it's just like you couldn't hardly even read it, you know, and it's like it's like given, it's like seating, you know, all these millions of acres. 01:01:59 Speaker 1: I I didn't see a hole in it. I thought I might see like, oh yeah. 01:02:03 Speaker 3: Says I can't read this. It doesn't matter, it's right, you. 01:02:05 Speaker 2: Know, son No, But it's consequential because us, as somebody who's interested in history. If you read this book right here, which is a good book written by Tom Matt Hatch, this is my first book I read, you would one percent just think that it was just verified that he stabbed a treaty. You would also think that it was one hundreds percent black and white. Ostiola was anti slavery and was making political gestures about slavery to America with his actions. If you read this book, when you read doctor Wickman's Ostiola's Legacy Revised Edition, that thing is like a hunk of white oak. I mean, this is like a this is like dense to the you know, she she kind of parses through all that stuff and it's like and basically her point about stabbing the treaty is that. 01:03:03 Speaker 1: The guy that the first. 01:03:05 Speaker 2: Time anybody ever wrote about stabbing the treaty was fourteen years after the treaty was signed. Nobody came out of the meeting and was like fourteen years later when they're analyzing it, and you know how they did. Those writers back in those days, it's the primary way to communicate with the world. There was no television and internet, and these guys took a lot. They were very poetic, very good writers, took some liberty with stuff. So that's clue number one is that fourteen years later is the first time that it arises. But then what doctor Wickman says is that the one eyewitness account of someone that was there that it was documented made no mention of a treaty stab. 01:03:54 Speaker 1: So you see what I'm saying. But when you talk to Jake, Tiger and. 01:04:00 Speaker 2: Earling, it's pretty it's pretty bold for me to say, like, I don't know if that happened. 01:04:07 Speaker 6: Well, that the witness, you know, he could have had a biased opinion about it, Like I ain't going to make this guy look at oh sill, forget that guy. I ain't going to give you any kind of props or anything. He may have just omitted it. 01:04:18 Speaker 3: I need you to take your knife out of the treaty. 01:04:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, but my point is the cultural significance to them is so real. Sure, Like I actually wonder if Jake and Sterling are upset with me for like bringing it to attension that maybe it didn't happen. 01:04:39 Speaker 6: Well, which is the very same reason why they Was that eyewitness, uh white or was he a Native American? 01:04:46 Speaker 1: I'm sure it was a white guy. 01:04:47 Speaker 6: So I mean that it would be important for him to be looking on the better side of that. 01:04:52 Speaker 3: Frent and I went and interviewed witnesses and had seven statements. We might have one that said, oh, yeah, the knife was sticking in it, didn't see him do it, But you know, it's just gonna be hard to really pin down. 01:05:04 Speaker 5: My friend Brent Reeves says, the best way to get conflicting stories is to get to eyewitnesses. 01:05:11 Speaker 1: The same thing. 01:05:12 Speaker 6: Yeah, one got to be saying, well it was Tuesday, it was thirteen minutes ago. Yeah, yeah, it's a different. 01:05:19 Speaker 2: Well, I I hope it also came through that regardless of whether it happened or it didn't, it didn't matter, right, Like it it branded the seminoles with with with it, with the kind of this identity that they already had, Like it fit the narrative that was true. 01:05:42 Speaker 5: Which may have been that writer's license to make the statement if it wasn't true. 01:05:47 Speaker 2: Right, And I mean, and whether he did it or not, it's not like, well Osciola was a coward because he didn't stab it, Like you see what I'm saying. 01:05:55 Speaker 5: It's like we all know he was brandishing the knife. Yeah, and nobody said put that uh yeah yeah, clap that guy in irons. 01:06:04 Speaker 1: Yeah okay. So yeah. 01:06:07 Speaker 2: The now, this is where I've yet to determine if I'm kind of like in trouble or not, because man, talking about this stuff is not you tell, there's there's risk cultural risk in today's world about talking about race and different things like this, and uh fact, well, but that's just the thing. Doctor Wickman was adamant of what she told me, and I didn't play the whole even being fair to doctor Wickman too. We talked about that for probably thirty minutes. You guys probably heard six minutes. 01:06:42 Speaker 3: That's what I thought. I thought, she's a little hard on you. She's golded you a little bit, you know, and then proceeded to tell you how they were culturvated. 01:06:50 Speaker 1: Okay, I see what you're saying. 01:06:52 Speaker 3: I mean, but I think she wanted to make sure the whole story was there, not just some you know, real. 01:06:57 Speaker 1: So you're saying, you're saying. 01:07:01 Speaker 3: They were eventually, I mean, they were living. They said, you know that when the Blacks came in, they they didn't just readily accept them, but they knew they could produce food and so they had a deal with and some of them, they talk about some of them would fight with them. Well that's a cultureating, right, I said, that, isn't that them? 01:07:16 Speaker 6: One hundred percent? 01:07:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think you were right. It's just that you think he maybe didn't what you go on two fasts, what. 01:07:21 Speaker 2: She was trying to stamp out, which she did a good job of, which I mean according to her, and I trust what she says was that it wasn't like a political statement about slavery, because you go to the Wikipedia page today for Ostiola and it says Ostiola was anti slavery and that's why people liked him, essentially, And she was like, no, no, no, no, no no, no, like you know that. 01:07:47 Speaker 6: You're going to put something on Wikipedia, right, yeah. 01:07:51 Speaker 2: That doesn't mean much exactly, I'm gonna put a clay nukeleman it. 01:07:56 Speaker 1: No. 01:07:57 Speaker 6: It was also left handed, twirl the knife twice. Yeah. 01:08:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, well so yeah, it kind of got to the same place. And I liked her. 01:08:08 Speaker 3: I don't mean I'm not saying anthing against her. I just thought, wait a minute, I think it's kind of real. 01:08:12 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but but again to her credit, I think it's easy to take a narrative and Migo Ossio it was anti slavery. They assimilated, you know, these these enslaved people, formerly enslaved people into their tribes and just made them like seminoles. 01:08:31 Speaker 1: And she's like, well, it wasn't not really quite like that, even though that's kind of where it got. 01:08:37 Speaker 6: To It wasn't like they was like, oh y'all, come on down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it didn't happen like. 01:08:42 Speaker 2: You know, like you and you think about disenfranchised people of that time, these two groups of people were we're at the at the bottom of the of the tiered system in America. I mean, I don't think the seminoles were like, they weren't viewing enslaved people as like a group of people that needed to be protected. Right, do you see what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean they were. They were fighting for their lives to worry about. 01:09:13 Speaker 6: Yeah. 01:09:13 Speaker 1: So it's not like they were like, you know what, we're going to be charitable. 01:09:16 Speaker 5: Well again again again we're looking at these things through our own cultural interpretation. You know, we've talked plenty about how we see things you just mentioned about centralized government, and the Indians didn't even have a concept of that. I mean, we don't know, we don't know how they viewed slavery. We don't know how they would have viewed these people coming in and in their mind they might have just been friend or foe, you know what I mean. It's not about not about whether we should assimilate, you know, or stand up for your rights as a human. I don't know that that was a perspective of the natives of the Seminoles at that time. 01:09:49 Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah. 01:09:51 Speaker 2: Well what what also wasn't disputed was that they owned slaves. 01:09:57 Speaker 1: They owned African slaves, because. 01:10:00 Speaker 5: The Semino it's documented that the owned African slaves. Well, I think that's pretty good, pretty good. 01:10:07 Speaker 3: Well, they purchased something purchased. 01:10:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean because when they when they were trying trying to move the trial, and this is where I believe that doctor Wickman and and all these other guys say it too, but was when they were trying to move them to Oklahoma, the United States government was buying their livestock, buying different stuff from them to try to compensate them for because they were gonna have to leave all that stuff there and leave, which is just a wild thought, but they were. 01:10:36 Speaker 6: They were. 01:10:36 Speaker 1: There was controversy over what to do with their slaves. 01:10:40 Speaker 2: Because they were like, well, we're not going to pay you for a slave that escaped from this guy up in Georgia, that that slave, that enslaved person is going back to that guy. We're not paying you for something that basically was stolen, but they paid. 01:10:57 Speaker 1: For him for somebody I don't know. It's wild, so wild. 01:11:04 Speaker 3: It's never just black and white, cut and dry. It's always the z In diagram of some kind. You know, there's stuff in here and stuff over here and stuff so, which is kind of cool, which is why I appreciate you wading in there with these kind of stories, because it's the Seminoles history, it's our history, and it's all American history. We're all Americans, and the more we know how this all went, the better off we are. I think. Yeah, I don't think it's bad at all. Yeah, yeah, you know, you take the arrows. 01:11:29 Speaker 2: But well, and the reason I said I don't know that I'm not in trouble yet is and I'm kind of I don't really think. I don't really mean that, but there are And this is what I just don't understand. Like we didn't cover the whole topic. I mean, we talked about it for like eight minutes, right, so that is not the final definitive story on you know, African slaves and the Seminoles. 01:11:54 Speaker 1: But there are people that they called the black. 01:11:57 Speaker 2: Seminoles in Florida that I mean, I don't know the whole the complexity of the whole story. 01:12:04 Speaker 1: But it's it's very interesting. What bear what stood out to you? 01:12:08 Speaker 2: I told you I was gonna yeah, kind of the biggest thing that I thought was interesting was whenever you were talking about and doctor Wickman was talking about the way that they viewed the land, like the part about the you know knows the deer. 01:12:22 Speaker 1: That was cool just because. 01:12:25 Speaker 2: That's just not a way that I could ever, Like, I can't really imagine being able to think that way, to not have a perfect idea in your mind of right where you're at on a map, but just to kind of have like a general understanding of it. 01:12:40 Speaker 1: But then also the way that. 01:12:42 Speaker 2: They kind of viewed like land ownership, Like you know, they kind of viewed the land as like something they occupy and more of like a privilege, something to take care of, which is just like so far outside of my realm of thought. 01:12:57 Speaker 1: Just you know, like when I think of land, I think who owns it? 01:13:01 Speaker 2: You know, like it's not an exact it's not a there's there's no question of you know, it's like every piece of land right now that I could go to someone owns. So that was just kind of like whenever I tried to think about that and actually think about the way that they would have thought about land, it was actually like kind of it was difficult to actually wrap my right mind around it. 01:13:21 Speaker 6: It was the way you know, I grew up in Southeast Arkansas. It was a big timber company owns acres and acres and acres that's now least in sectioned off when I was a kid. When I was your age was not. There was no leasing. You just were hunting wherever you wanted to. And that's I get a glimpse of how they were looking. 01:13:39 Speaker 1: Because people had kind of territories. 01:13:41 Speaker 6: Yeah, but you didn't. But everything was you couldn't get any there was no recourse. There was no backlash if you went somewhere because it was open to everybody. Yeah, but it was private land, probably owned by the timber company. It's much like going into a WMA. Right now, you know, some guy a trigger out beside you. You can't say nothing about it. Yeah, but it was along what you're talking about there and talking about the cypress tree being the first thing they described. You remember that part, yeah, where she was taking those pictures down there. Yeah, and they immediately recognized that cy tree. That was I thought that's where you was going with that. That is so yeah, it was really cool. 01:14:21 Speaker 3: Well, the picture I got in my head when you're talking about them figuring that out is a couple of Indians on the ground drawing it out. I guess they're the shape of Florida, you know that. That's how I figured they maybe got it in their heads. Or then somebody said the those of the deer. It was like a deer, yeah or whatever. 01:14:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it also made sense like how like whenever the Europeans came over, they kind of had this mindset of the land just as some sort of you know, they kind of had like a utilitarian mindset on just like you know, because it wasn't a place that they would have lived and grown up in, like whereas the Seminoles they would have lived grown up there for generation and after generation after generation, so it would have kind of been like this land that was it wasn't theirs, but it was like, you know, it was just like their home, whereas like the Europeans come in its land they've never seen before, and so immediately it's just kind of like. 01:15:14 Speaker 1: The you know, the utilitarian commodity. 01:15:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, the mindset of like, you know, dividing it up who owns it, and it was just a different way to think about it. 01:15:24 Speaker 1: And really it makes a lot of sense. 01:15:26 Speaker 2: I mean, like if you think about it, you know, we're just you know, what gives us the right to just like claim a piece of land. 01:15:34 Speaker 6: Durance, it's just ours right now. 01:15:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, it has a cute little phrase about it's just our turn. 01:15:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, Leopold said something like that too, but stewardship of it for now or something, you know, but it's kind of we looked at it as unoccupied. That's the problem. That's wild open country. 01:15:52 Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, wow. 01:15:55 Speaker 1: You know when you think about I've said this before, I said it back. 01:15:58 Speaker 2: In the Boon series, but if you if it's pretty agreed upon that human civilization started somewhere in the in the Middle Eastern area. 01:16:10 Speaker 1: I mean, anthropologists. 01:16:11 Speaker 2: Agree with that, the Bible agrees with that, like human civilization kind of started like in that part of the world. 01:16:20 Speaker 1: The peopling of America. 01:16:22 Speaker 2: The best understanding that we have today is that that humans came into North America from the west, you know, from the from the baring Land Bridge. 01:16:32 Speaker 1: And the Kelp Highway. 01:16:34 Speaker 2: Now they're quite certain that it wasn't actually across the baring Land Bridge, but came down the Kelp Highway via water down the down the western coast and came into Washington and the Alaskan Lutian Islands and or the Alexander Archipelago islands point being Native Americans came from. If they start, if humans kind of like started in the Middle East, some people people went into Asia, some people went into Europe, and thousands and thousands and thousands of years later they went opposite ways on the globe. And then they met again for the for the first time in Florida. I mean this, Yeah, I mean, so so these humans that were the same species that had been separated for time that we can't really understand, and but they were both humans, and they had these different ideas of what it meant to be human. And that would be a great example land Like somehow the Europeans, you know, probably because of civilization or because of this technology and there was more agriculture, they were building cities, they were you. 01:17:52 Speaker 1: Think maybe like higher population densities. 01:17:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, higher population densities. And and then and so they were like, hey, we got we got to figure out who owns this land. We're going to draw lines on a map. We're going to make a map. We're gonna have lines, and people are going to be able to buy. You know, they they formulated this complex system of land ownership and this ideology about land and how humans interacted with it. And then you know, these people that were here in North America, you know, especially early on, it would have been this vast, unpeopled continent, and they developed doctrines and ways they thought about anyway, and then all of a sudden they collided. You know, it's interesting. That's very simplified, but it's it's interesting. Yeah, Josh, what will end with? 01:18:48 Speaker 5: I thought that was really interesting. But one of the things that I always appreciate is getting to hear straight from seminoles, you know what I mean, when we have a topic to speak to someone who's in indigenous and and uh, you know, I appreciated what what Jake Tiger had to share about about Osciola not being a chief. I think that's a common common thing that we think about that if they're a leader. There what. 01:19:13 Speaker 1: Analogy? 01:19:14 Speaker 5: I thought it was effective. I thought it was it was a good, good, u good analogy. But you know, just thinking about about who Osciola was to be able to draw in and to fill people with with vision of what what they're going to do. That's what made him a leader, not because he had a title or a birthright, but really because of who he was and his ability to fight and his ability to draw people in. I thought that was really interesting. What what what Jake Tiger had to share about? 01:19:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:19:46 Speaker 2: So we're we're trying to get Sterling hard Joe to come on the next render. Cool that we do so Sterling he's a busy guy in a in a in a of he's got a lot going on in his life, but he's probably going to be here with us, which would be really cool. I would have had all those guys on every render if they could have come. You know, it's just hard to get get people here. But the next episode, I'm really excited about it because it's just if you think this is interesting, I think this next one is even going to be more interesting in a way. Oscio Oscillo is going to die. Oh and he died. He dies in an American prison in South Carolina, and uh where the whole podcast is about his death and about doctor Patricia Wickman, who spent a good portion of her career searching for Osilo's. 01:20:51 Speaker 6: Head bum bum bumb. 01:20:54 Speaker 1: I mean, like, it's pretty fascinating, pretty fascinating. 01:21:00 Speaker 6: Up, I'm listening, just can't wait. 01:21:02 Speaker 5: Absolutely, it's gonna be a good one. 01:21:04 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, been good so far. 01:21:08 Speaker 1: Well, thanks guys, anything else, Josh, we're supposed to talk, I. 01:21:12 Speaker 5: Don't think so. Just be on the lookout for that Bear Grease Hall of Fame. 01:21:15 Speaker 1: Ah, Bear Grease Hall of Fame. It's gonna be going so good. 01:21:18 Speaker 2: Yep, I'm going to I'm going to Kansas, like right now, like when y'all. I mean, I probably won't even say. 01:21:26 Speaker 1: Bye to y'alla. 01:21:27 Speaker 6: Climb out the window. 01:21:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm probably gonna climb out the window. So we're recording this on October thirtieth, Tomorrow is Halloween, and there's a big front coming tonight, and I'm going to Kansas bow hunting. I got a Kansas boy that reminds me I better bring my dad come Kansas tag. 01:21:45 Speaker 1: I was gonna I was gonna run off and leave that. 01:21:49 Speaker 6: Daniel Boone had two wives. 01:21:57 Speaker 2: Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live. 01:22:00 Speaker 1: Boone only had one wife. 01:22:01 Speaker 2: Doubtful he cortered her at the cherry at the cherry tree when they were fourteen. 01:22:06 Speaker 1: Man, come on, he would have never cheated on him. Cut that off.