00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number two oh seven and tan the show, I'm joined by Wit Fosburgh of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership to discuss possibly the largest private lands conservation bill in America and how it impacts hunters, and that of course, is the Farm Bill. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by sit Ka Gear. And today on the show, we're talking about private lands conservation. You know, we we hear so much about these big cons servation initiatives related to public lands, but of course conservation is important on private land too, and for most of us white tail hunters, especially those of us that are hunting east of the Mississippi, it's private land really that most of us depend on. Public land, of course, is still super important, but to be honest, I think the numbers do clearly show that most of us whitetail guys are private land hunters the majority of the time. But you just don't hear a whole lot about the stuff that's going on to protect and improve and conserve those areas. But that doesn't mean there's not stuff going on. And that's why we're doing today's podcast because there is actually an absolutely huge private lands conservation bill that's up for debate this year, and we hunters and our voices we're gonna be needed to make sure this bill positively impacts fish and wildlife and wild places. And this bill is the Farm Bill. You probably hear of it, but if you're not kind of deeply tapped into the conservation world, you may not really realize that the Farm Bill doesn't just have to do with farmers. It actually covers vast array of different issues, including a whole lot of stuff related to habitat and wildlife and hunters. So today, to help make sense of this massive bill and all of its implications on hunting and wildlife and habitat, we're gonna be joined by Witt Fosberg of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. And I know what you're thinking, the Farm Bill, This this sounds like a snooze fest. And yes, I mean this isn't gonna be quite as as fun maybe as a deep dive conversation into hunting strategies or some big you know, white tail or Alaskan adventure. We're not going to have that conversation. But as we have talked about many times here in the podcast, we hunters, we do have a responsibility. You know, Hunting is a consumptive activity, meaning that we take from the landscape that we recreate on. And if we're gonna take something from these wild places and wild animals, whether that's taking a life or a week's worth of rest and relaxation, or a lifelong memory, or maybe just a pile mushrooms or antlers, if we're taking something, it's our responsibility to give back to and it's it's not always gonna be fun, it's not always gonna be easy, it's not always what we want to talk about, but it is on us to give back and make sure these places and animals and opportunities are available in the future. And so that is why I think these kinds of conversations and issues are so important for us as a hunting community, and even just as like our little tight podcast family here, it's it's important for us to spend some time on this stuff. I believe too. So today that's what we're gonna do. And and I commend you and if I could, i'd high five you or shake your hand for taking the time to dig into this one with an open mind and some curiosity. The farm Bill is jam packed the programs that can positively impact US hunters if they're funded and approved, and we've got that opportunity this year to make sure that happens. So stick with me here today, learn a bit about the farm Bill, maybe make a few calls or emails, and then we can get right back into big rutting, stinky bucks and wild adventures in the great outdoors and all that kind of good stuff. Does that sound good? Good? All? Right? Then we're gonna take a quick break for our Sickest story of the day, and then I'll bring Wit on the line with me to dive into private lands, conservation and the farm Bill. For this week's Sitka story, we're joined by Don Vdosh, who tells us about an eye opening encounter he had in southeastern Kansas. Well Spencer. It's an interesting, uh. The sickest stories have been intriguing to me. I have a follower of podcast and and I've had a couple uh defining moments in UH in my own career, and one really was an eye opener for me. I'm back in two thousand and fifteen. I had a particularly large buck that I was after in Kansas, probably the biggest one I had ever chased, and had a lot of camera pictures of him, and Uh, I was really waiting him out and got down to Kansas just done a great cold front in November, and I got into where I thought he would be, and sure enough, around thirty am, he comes walking in, uh, into the field I was. I was sitting in with a few dos and UH, I snort wheezed at him, just trying to get aggressive, and he took one look over at me and just came charging in like a ball. Uh stopped staring at my head on at ten yards. Eyeball to eyeballs. Is one of those moments where you know your camouflage really gets tested. And and right about then he looked away and took one step and and that that was one of his last And for me, that was really one of those moments where you wonder, you know how things are working, and and I had the wind in my face and I just knew at that time that UM the camouflage was working for me. Uh. You know, as hunters, I think we always have questions, you know, is my when good? Is? Is my is my setup? Good? Is? Is my equipment solid? And in that moment I knew that all that was clicking on Dahn's hunt, which was a bitterly cold sit he was wearing Sitka's phonetic system. If you'd like to create a Sitka story of your own, or to learn more about Sitka's technical hunting apparel, visit sit gygear dot com. All right with us now? Is W Fostburg from the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. Thanks for being with us, what Mark? Always great to be with you. Thank you? Yeah, I I I gotta tell you the work you guys are doing UM For me personally, I found it so beneficial when I first discovered what you guys are up to, maybe I don't know, five six years ago maybe UM, and I started following just the information and the resources you guys put out through your newsletter and your website. I don't know how people could could learn about this stuff and understand what's going on in the hunting and fishing conservation world. If you guys weren't doing what you do. So just big thank you for me right off the get go for for doing such helpful work. Well, we appreciate that. And you know, there's you talk about one of the problems, which is there are so many different things that are going on and a lot of them are so complicated that you know, the average hunter out there looks at it and they just you know, eyes glaze over and you don't pay much attention. And so that's what we get paid to do, is to work on to make sure that somebody is paying attention. And just so your listeners understand, you know, we're a coalition about fifty six different organizations from Mule Deer Foundation and National Deer Alliance to Pass Forever and Ducks Unlimited, but also out to Industry Association and a f l C. I oh, because the twelve million members hunting fish and what we tried to do is really bringing all those diverse voices together and to speaking a common voice on the big issues affecting hunting and fishing and conservation in America, like you know, public lands policy or agriculture policy. Yeah, and I think that's what you just said, right, Their agri culture policy was what I was hoping we could focus on today because I think a lot of people are aware of what's going on with conservation related in relation to public lands. There's been a lot of talk lately over the last you know, several years about what's what's happening with our public lands and some of the different things we need to be aware of on that front. But when it comes to private land stuff, which is is what most deer hunters, especially east of the Mississippi are dealing with, we don't talk about a whole lot, you know. We kind of just talk about at least the average deer hunter is talking about maybe what kind of habitat work we can do on our own properties to help deer um. But there's not a whole lot of talk about some of the bigger picture programs or regulations or anything like that impacts all of us across the country when it comes to private land conservation. And I know that the Farm Bill is a big piece of that. So what I'm hoping today you can help us understand what is this thing? What is this beast of legislation? Why does it matter? And I guess maybe that maybe before I ramble any further. Can we start right there? Can you just tell us what is the Farm Bill? Why does it matter for deer hunters? Yeah, so, I mean, you know, you're exactly round. A lot of the attention, a lot of our attention is sort of applied to big sexy issues like you know, public lands policy and things like that. But you know, of these countries and private land ownership, and about half of that is an agricultural production or commercial timber production. And so the stats I've seen is about you know, somewhere around you know, the hunters out there, you know, the hunter on private lands predominantly, and so it makes a really big difference. And the Farm Bill actually dates all the way back to the Depression and Franklin Roosevelt, and it was part of his efforts to really stabilize you know, the collapse and the farming economy and the dust bowl and all that at that time by creating incentives for landowners to do the right things by their lands. Uh, it's evolved since the nineteen thirties, and really the conservation parts of the Farm Bill began in the nineteen eighties and there were sort of two goals there. One we were seeing you know, a rapid decline in wetlands and prairie habitat and you know, things like that. So there was a conservation need. We also were in a crisis in the farm states where prices were low and you were seeing you know, small farmers just getting out of business. And so it was sort of one part, you know, doing the right thing for conservation and one part a basically a price support program for the farmers to set aside land, not farm it, and get a payment for it. And that was a way of keeping them in business. And I think that nobody at that time really knew just how beneficial was going to be. But you know, as the results came in, as we saw sort of huge rebounds and pheasant populations and duck populations and white tales and turkeys and a lot of the other things we like to chase, people really started to understand and expand upon, you know, the conservation side of the farm mill and uh, you know, in the sort of grown up and down over time. And last farm Bill is in two thousand and fourteen, and at that time we saw a you know, a cut in the conservation progress. We saw a cut neal for all farm bill. Um, you know, every program pretty much in there was reduced in some fashion, but there was a big cut about three billion dollar cut in you know, the conservation side, and it's but it's still even with that. Today we were spending about five point seven billion dollars two through the Farm Bill to promote conservation on private lands, which really makes it the single largest conservation program in this country. And about fifty million acres out there are enrolled in you know, some conservation ram or another, so it has a huge impact. Um, there are a few different One thing important to understand about the Farm Bill is it's all about voluntary incentives for conservation. Uh. This is the non regulatory approach to conservation, and a lot of people get ticked off. I think about E p A or various other regulatory programs, all of which are necessary. But for private landowners out there, you know, they don't want to be threatened. They want to see if we can be in partnership with the government to do the right thing. And UH. One of the things we saw in the two thousand fourteen Farm Bill was, you know, the conservation side since the nineteen eighties had really grown and you know, programs and all sources of programs had popped up to the point where it was getting really complicated for the individual landowner about shy enrolled this or that, and so as a way of reducing some of the costs of the programs, a lot of that was consolidated in two thousand fourteen, so I went down to much more more than half the programs were sort of evolved and moved into other programs were existing, which actually makes it, I think a lot easier if you're a landing out there to participate. UM. And then you know, that was where a lot of that three billion dollars worth of savings were in the two thousand eighteen farm build Now as we're looking at two thousand excuse me, the two fourteen farm bell as we're looking at two thousand eighteen, and we have a very different landscape today than we did four years ago. At that time, you know, corn prices, wheat prices, soybean prices for much of record highs, and it was very hard for the conservation programs to compete, um, you know with somebody who's planting those you know, turning those field into road crops. Uh, it's just so lucrative for the farm folks. Back then. We have a very different situation today. Prices are low. You know, farmers out there are not doing well right now, and they're clamoring to get into the conservation programs. But a lot of those programs, like the Conservation Reserve Program got capped in two thousand and fourteen. So CRP Conservation Reserve Program is probably one of the most famous programs out there. If you're a deer hunter, you probably know about it. If you're a pheasant hunter, you definitely know about it. But this is you know, a lot of the program folks can enroll to take you know, the idea was highly erodable areas out of production and also sensitive environmental areas, so let's say stream corridors on a field, you know, de steep slopes that were really pretty marginal for planning in the first place. A lot of those areas got entered into c RP. Uh, not only just to sort of go wild, but then you know, they're awesome incentives to you know, produce, you know, put in for example, you know, seed mixes for pollinators and for other species, and that just made tremendously good habitat um that program and went was at its height about thirty seven million acres around the country and far we're enters into it and they get a payment and if they make a commitment of ten to fifteen years to not you know, basically plow up that land and keep it in conservation and manage it. And uh, you know, so they're from thirty seven million acres at its height. It went down to twenty four million acres in two thousand and fourteen. Not because anybody in Congress was evil or didn't like conservation. The bottom line was it was really hard to compete with high commodity prices. So this is a way of saving money because people weren't enrolling anyway. So but today, you know, as I mentioned, is a very different situation. We're trying to get that number up into the thirties, thirty two five million acres because there's plenty of demand for that. And if you can add yeah, eight you know, ten million acres U two into good conservation and good habitat that has direct application to hunting and fishing. So that's the sort of short take of where we are. Um, it's probably worth talking a little bit about the different types of programs that we have in the Farm Bill. I made one is you know, we just mentioned you know, conservation reserve program which a lot of folks are familiar with, UH, or longer term easement programs where you basically set aside you know, really you know, sensitive areas you know, in perpetuity and obviously you get a lot more money for that, um. But that's really an idea of you know, not having to just sort of keep writing a check every you know, ten years, but areas we know should never be you know, put back under the plow getting them off. UH. There are other programs like you know, what's known as the EQUIP program that will fund things like improving your irrigation system so you use less water and you know, in the same time and return some of that saved water to the stream which is great for fish, or just irrigate a little more sensitively. Um. You. Programs like that are more you know, sort of fixes with you know, actually going in there and turning over some dirt and putting in structures. But that's all eligible under the Farm Bill too. One of the cool things that we did in two thousand and eight is we added a public access program to the Farm Bill, and it's known as the Voluntary Public Access Habitat Improvement Program, and it was really actually the brainchild of TRCPS founder, a guy named Jim Range, and he had always thought that, you know, this was a great way of promoting conservation but also expanding public access because, as you know, loss of access is, if not d number one, is certainly one of the top two reasons that people stop hunting and fishing. And so Jim recognized that if we could create some incentives for private landers not only to do good things for conservation, but also to open those lands to public hunting and fishing, it would be a win win for everybody. So in two thousand and eight, a prilot program got put in, but the v p A hip is a more official title for it. It got expanded into a fifty million dollar program in the two thousand and fourteen Farm Bill, and it has just been a phenomenal success. I mean, not only is it supplemented you know, states that have traditional walk in programs like Kansas in Montana, UM, but it has you know creag incentives for states like Massachusetts and Connecticut to create these walk in programs, and it's you know, we think in the first year that first section of the Farm Bill. From the two thousand eight Farm bill, it added about three million acres of private land public access. And the way that works is, you know, a state applies for a grant from the Partment Agriculture, Yeah a million dollars, it gets it, and then it uses that money to go out and enter into individual contract with willing landowners. And so Landard has got a payment uh in exchange for the state promises to, you know, put up the signage, monitor access. And also the status seems liability, so somebody steps in a ditch and breaks their leg, Landard doesn't have to worry about being sued. That program again was expanded fifty million dollars in the two thousand and fourteen Farm Bill. According to our friends of the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, they say that you demand right now could easily full programs a hundred and fifty million dollars, which would add millions and more acres private land, public houneing and fishing. And so we've had bills dropped in the House and the Senate just on that one program. Bipartisan Republicans and Democrats, they would expand that to a hundred and fifty million dollar programs. So you know, in addition to the good things for conservation, we also have a direct direct tide public access and the farm bell through the v p A hip program. How how do how do hunters find where these places are a lot of people don't even realize that these kinds of programs are in place in a lot of states because and to your point, access is such a challenge for so many of us. Where do they get the info and what all states do utilize this program? Well, it's funny because every state has their own way of advertising it and it's has actually been one of my pet peeves is there's not one you know, if I'm I'm flying into pure South Dakota to go a pheasant hunting, I can't you know, sort of click on my access app and all of a sudden, have you pop up all around me these walking areas and what the rules are with them. So what you gotta do now is you got to go to the individual state websites and find out about so like in your state of Michigan, it's the Hunter as Honey Access program And what you will do is you'll go in there and you know, google that and it will tell you where those areas are if there any special rules associated with them. In Illinois is called the Illinois Recreational Access PROGRAMMER I WRAP. Um, you know, in Iowa it's the Hunter Illinois Hunter excuse me, Illinois Habitat and Access program I have and you know, so they're every state calls it something a little bit different, block grant programs, and that's what we call in some states. So what you really just gotta do is you go to your state agency's website, you know, google it and find out where these areas are. There will be maps you can click on them that should they should pop up and tell you about where the access points are and if there any special rules and REGs about going on them. Um. But it's you know, it's a really good program. Right now, when we're trying to do is get that span and also make sure that it's targeted. For example, if you target some of those areas that say about a national forest, uh, then you can you get access to those, but you can also then get access to the national forest behind it, which may have been inaccessible to most hunters. I mean you think about how the you know, for example, in the West, how development happened, and that is, you know, the private landers took all the good land down the river bottoms and then you know the mountains behind them where the national forests are. And the old days you can always just knock on someone's door, walk across their land, and you know, go hunt the national forest. And that has changed. People are afraid of liability. You know, a rich you know, Silicon Valley billionaire, has you bought that parcel and popped up no trespassing signs. So we have lost a lot of access, not only to private land, but to public lands that traditionally could be accessed but no longer can be. And so if you use something like you whither these programs, the volunteer of public access, you know programs in the farm bill, you can really be and strategically to access some of those lands that have become inaccessible. Right. So, so here's the question I've got about this kind of thing, because the voluntary public access portion of this just it seems like such a home run, such a no brainer benefit too, especially to hunters um. But the question is how do we help with something like this because and this is maybe a larger question too, but when you look at the farm Bill. It's it seems to be this convoluted combination of all these different programs and pieces and parts. UM. But then you also see things like this program that are getting talked about even outside of the Farm Bill. I think that you guys call this a marker bill. I was reading about how just recently, Yeah, so just recently a handful of UM congressmen proposed some updates to this, I think just this last week about some updates for this new version of the of the v p A UM. So how does that work? And how do we hunters say, yes, we really want this, we want this expanded. UM. Do we do we need to work on it right now because of this new proposal or do we wait until the farm bill debates are really happening. So that's a great question. And uh, you know, the farm bill debates are happening right now. And the way the farm bill works has so many diverse programs. I mean, you know, the food stamp program in this country is under the farm bill, you know, in addition to you know, crop insurance, in addition to the conservation payments. So there is a ton that goes on. The way it often happens is that individual portions of the farm bill. Members will break them off introduce what we call marker bills, and that's where they can be discussed and they can be modified, because once everything is put together, it's just becomes so big it's hard to get your arms around. Um. You do a lot of that sort of yeah, obviously negotiating and fine tuning with these marker bills, and then assuming you build some good by partis in support and you take care of any unanticipated problems, then you hopefully that becomes what guests moved into the bigger farm bill. Um. So, as you just mentioned, you know, we have now sent versions and House versions of a new voluntary public access bill, and really the main change in it is that it's just a bigger bill. It goes from fifty million dollars to a hundred and fifty million, and we think it is going to have broad bipartisan support. The Senate bill was you know, Senator Bennett Democrat from Colorado, Senator Crapo, Republican from Idaho. Four members including your you know, Debbie Dangle from Michigan were the co sponsors in the House side. And you we can go to our website which is a tier cp dot org and click on our Farm Bill stuff nicket all the details, But first you thank the folks that have introduced this to urge your own congress person to get in there and support this program and broadly support conservation the farm bill. The challenge that we're going to be under is especially now that you know Congress has you know, done the tax bill. They've proved a two year budget, you know that spends a ton of money. There's gonna be a lot more pressure than usual on the Farm Bill to cut money. And because you know, there are few folks out there is actually think deficits still matter, and they see the farm Bill as a giant chunk of cash. And what we don't want to see happens a lot of these conservation programs to be the ones to get sacrificed in exchange for spending in other areas. So a day two things. One, you know, argue for the voluntary of public access program expansion in the you know whatever house were the center farm Bill, and to really pushed back on the notion of cuts to conservation. If anything, we ought to be doubling down on conservation. A couple of points here, I mean we obviously on this administration does not like the idea of you know, e p A and regulatory enforcement, which is fine, but if you're not going to go out there and enforce things to regulation, you better double down on voluntary and centives to do the right things and areas like programs like the Farm Bill with its you know, the grasslands programs, wetlands programs, you know, trap all the rest. I mean, those are natural programs to improve water quality. So if you don't like dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico, in Lake Erie, off the coast of Florida, other places, you need to double down on these voluntary and centers for conservation. And you know, so I think that in I also would argue, and I think that the economics back this up that these aren't just hand douns to farmers. I mean, these are good for local economies. I mean, I remember when the walk in programs first started in Kansas, and it was years ago, and it brought so many people that came to the state to go pheasant hunting. And there's so many ripple effects to the economy. Motel rooms, diners, supporting good shops, you name it. All of a sudden, the counties, we're sending text to the state government to extend those areas because they saw what was doing locally for the economy. I don't know if you noticed, but this past week, you know, the Bureau of Economic Analysis released statistics on the outdoor recreation of economy in this country and it is massive, and hunting and fishing play a really big part in that. And uh, you know, so I would argue that any investments we make in conservation, expanding hunting and fishing are also investments in our economy. Yeah, so taking a or zooming back, I guess a little bit excuse me, zooming out. Uh. You talked a little bit about this as far as what you think might be going on with the current administration and some of these pressures, But can you speak a little more on what the overall prognosis is, you know, coming into the two thousand and eighteen debate, do we feel good about what's happening or is this like an area that we are concerned about in the hunting and fishing community really needs to um get into get into action here and make sure that we don't have any negative outcomes. Well, I mean, one thing that having been around this town for a very long time, has told us is you'd never take anything for granted, and the squeaky Wheel against the Greece. So I think we're in a pretty good place with the farm bill moving forward. But unless you know members of Congress here from constituents like ours, they care about conservation, they care about public access. They're gonna be hearing a whole lot from commodity groups. They're gonna be hearing a whole lot from other folks that have vested interests in this. And our job is to make sure that our voices are heard as well, and not in a shrill way. But yeah, using facts, you know, talking about water quality, talking about local economic impact, talking about how important these programs are to getting our kids, you know, away from the TV screen or their video games and out into the field. And I think yet, but you know, we cannot. Nobody can assume that you know, everyone somebody else is making that case. We all need to weigh in on this one, fair enough. So are what are some of the other programs You're going through the list of the different pieces of this um what's next? Yeah, I mean there's a I mean, there's a variety of the big ones in the farm bill. I mean, there's the what we call ASP for the Agricultural Conservation Easement Program, and asked the one we talked about that you know sort of you know, allows these larger parcels to be preserved a long term. We have the Conservation Reserve Program, which is a short term you know, ten fifteen years tops contracts to take land out of production and ideally you know, some of the higher quality you know, are more less high quality agriculturals, but important ecologically, stream corridors, highly erodable areas in places like that. We have the Environmental Quality Incentives Program EQUIP, And I mentioned that one, you know that is uh, you know, there have been a whole lot of wildlife investments on that one. I use the example of converting an irrigation system to make it a little more fish friendly. But there are a bunch of other things that can be done under that. A new program that was created in the two thousand fourteen Farm Bill, something called the Regional Conservation Partnership Program or r c PP. The idea there was to really target conservation investments on large scale watersheds or large scale areas. But in the past. You know, the conservation part of the farm bill could s already consider you a thousands of acts of random kindness. Our CPP was an idea of let's get folks diverse interests, conservation groups, farm groups, you know, conservation districts, others in a big watershed or a big area. So let's say the Upper Missouri Watershed in Montana something like that, and get them all working together and create public private partnerships to really make sure that we're having a broader impact what we're doing. It's not just isolated parcels, but it's really affecting entire landscapes. That is a program that's because it was new. There was some bugs in it, and we're getting those worked out, but that's something that really requires, you know, additional investment moving forward. I mentioned the voluntary of Public Access program, which is the public access part of the farm bill, and then really the last big one that is in you know, sort of our you know, I think that your listeners really should care about is something all conservation compliance. And this is where we sort of morph a little bit into the regulatory side. So we we went away from in the previous farm bill sort of direct payments to landowners to subsidize their production. Uh. Instead, we basically said you'll get a payment if your crop fails. You're not going to get a payment if you're doing fine, and which makes sense. Um, so that's crop insurance. But in order for that to work, it has to be linked to conservation and so otherwise you have an incentive to go up there and dig up and plant the worst land on your farm, knowing this is probably gonna fail, but who cares because you're gonna get a payment. You're gonna from crop insurance because it failed. Now that is just your bad public policy and it's bad for fisher wilfe. So it was really controversial. We managed to get it in in the two thousand and fourteen you know farm bill is that relinking you know, conservation compliance with crop insurance. So today you want you can go up and you can plow up those areas, but you're not going to be eligible for a crop insurance payment, and which is plenty of incentive to keep folks from and they see plowing up those areas that should never get plowed. So we've got in. You know, part of the ad community is after those and wants to see that taken away because they see that as too much intrusion on how they do business. In my mind, it is basic good governance that we do not want to be subsidizing bad practices. And so to the extent the europe listeners want to weigh in on conservation compliance and make sure that that remains linked to crop insurance. That is a really important program too. That's good to know. So we've got we've got CRP, which is incentivizing landowners to develop better habitat for wildlife and it's incentive. It's an incentive, so they're they're benefiting it from it too. We've got the voluntary access programs. We've got easman programs that preserve areas long term. We've got ways to help, you know, landowners better comply with some of the things that are going to protect some of these places. There's a whole bunch of different pieces of this pie. And you spoke to this a little bit when it came to the voluntary access standpoint. How we can be calling our representatives and supporting that. Um so we I guess what I'm starting to say here is we can call our representatives, we can email our representatives. But is there any Is there any kind of focused, um targeted other actions that we should be taking, you know, sometimes there's petitions or different things like that for specific aspects. Is there anything like that, Yeah, you can go on. There are a couple of things we've got a First of all, there's a whole you know, sport of sports nes priorities for conservation and access in the two thousand eighteen farm Bill. It's a publication we produced. If you go to TRCP dot org slash farm bill you will find it and it will be all our detailed recommendations for what's you know, what we want to see out of the farm Bill. And it's not just us. I mean, there are twenty four different groups that are part of our Agricultural Working Group, uh, groups that really care about you know, these things. It's a very group first group. I mean it's ranges from the Americans Fishery Society to the Associatedous Fish and Wildlife Agencies and Ducks Unlimited. But you know also from you know, Trout Unlimited, UM Wildlife Society, Wildlife Managements to Western Landowners Alliance. You know. So it is very much the you know, the big picture, and this is basically our collective vision and what needs to happen to the farm bill, so folks can go to that and then they can get much more detail and you know, figure out how to you know, contact their congressmen and all the rest. There is another specific site that we have called c RP Works, and that is a dedicated website just about c RP and it has petition and sign up and you get more information. And because CRUP is such an important part of the farm bill for our community, we have created a separate, you know site there. So those will give you, I think any listeners that want to go on, we'll give them places and really show how they can take action on this. But the key thing is really just to take action. Don't assume that somebody else is doing this stuff for you. That's that's definitely important. And I guess one more time, I wanted to just double check on timing. Is there a time that is the very most impactful? You know, any time now is a good time, because you know, we think the House Representatives is going to put in a farm bill within the next couple of weeks. They're going to drop their big bill. UH. Senate will not be far behind. Um. We are told that you know, they're going to try to move this before the summer recess, which is basically the endin ulye beginning of August. Um, you know so, and that's that's gonna come pretty fast. So we'll have a better idea in the next few weeks. But what's in the various bills, and we'll have more sort of specific advice to give to our you know, our members are supporters, our partner groups. If any of your folks want to just sign up as a you know, sign up on our site, they're gonna get weekly updates as to what's moving through Congress and what they can do. UM. And you know so, I would say that as the first step. But you know, I think that you know, the farm bill is unlike any other program really in Congress because it is not a partisan bill. It generally breaks down along geographic lines much more than Republican Democratic lines. And in a year when you know, any time when Congress wants to show can bring home the bacon, it tries to pass farm bills in election years. Um. Because with the end we don't have earmarks anymore. This is one way that they can really show they've brought something back to folks that matter in their states. And the reason that the farm Bill passes is because there is an alliance between urban members and rural members. The urban members get their nutrition assistance, their food stamps, the rural members get their price programs, get their conservation programs. Uh, you know, so we'd all are you doing is going in there and railing against you know, food stamps or something, because this is part of the coalition that keeps um the Farm Bill of live and viable. Because we ever break off just rural America versus urban America, we are screwed. And so I mean, folks need to remember that, you know, set the politics aside, focus on the farm bill, and and really pushed for something to get done, you know, sooner rather than later. And I think that the we're hearing a lot from the farm community and especially the small farmers out there. They're on a lot of financial stress right now. They're very supportive of you know, the farm Bill and the conservation programs because they see it as a way if they can ride out these tough times. Whereas maybe four years ago they thought they didn't need the conservation programs. That has changed. So I think the timing is really good to get something that's positive with this farm bill. But you know, just d C is so dysfunctional these days that if you just can't assume anything, Yeah, I can't take anything for granted these days. This is This is great though, because I think that when people hear the farm Bill, if they don't know anything about it, they just assume, unless they're a farmer themselves, that they assume it has nothing to do with me. And then if they do realize that there is some benefits within it to the hunting and fishing and outdoor community, they just might get confused by the whole alphabet soup of all the different programs and acronyms, and it's just kind of a murky swamp to wade through. So I'm glad you broke it down by a few of the most important programs that we can kind of wrap our heads around, and the action items I think are clear. Um. I want to shift gears to one final alphabet soup acronym here that's not in the farm Bill, But I do want to touch on this, and that's the Land and Water Conservation Fund um, because I know this is something that is up for debate again this year. Can you fill us in the latest with l WCF and maybe for those that aren't familiar, really quick what is it wasn't important? And then what's happening right now? Well, it's it's a great question. And this is another hugely important federal program for sportsman's access. So the Land Water Conservation Fund was created in nineteen sixty and it was a deal basically between you know, the oil and gas industry and you know, the conservation interests. And so the deal was, we're going to open up the Outer Continental Shelf to oil and gas development. In exchange, the oil and gas industry will pay in nine million dollars a year into a fund, land and Water Conservation Fund. They will be used to you know, protect you know, at risk natural areas through acquisition through Eastman. The program also supports state parks, so there's a local benefit as well. Um, and it was it was it was a great compromise and really the way you know, governing is supposed to work in It passed essentially unanimously in the Senate. In the fifty plus years since the Land Water Conservation Fund was created, only one time has it been fully funded. Instead, Congress gets all those receipts or the governmental government gets all those receipts, but Congress decides, well, we're actually gonna hijack that money and put it someplace else. So in a typical year you may get three four hundred million dollars going to the fund, which is still a lot of money. It's a lot less money that was in, but it's still important for you know, doing targeted acquisitions for easement programs for parks. UH initially had a fifty year authorization that expired three years ago. We got a three year extension. In theory, this program run is no longer authorized at the end of September this year. So we want really two things. One we want it reauthorized and two we want it fully funded. Um. You will hear complaints of some folks, well, gosh, you know, the federal government can't take you can't take care of the land it has, why should we add more to it? A couple of responses to that. First of all, you know, a relative small part of this is acquisition, A lot more of it is easements, and it's just keeping highly very important areas from getting developed. I mean, we're not making any more land. And as you know, as I know living around here in d C. You know, the march of sprawl is relentless. And the places that you know I could hunt when I was a kid, you know, we're now you know, full fledged, you know, shopping malls, subdivisions, all the rest. So LBCF is really important for protecting some of the special places. It's all done through willing sellers. There's no condemnation that goes in there. UM. And it's also incredibly important I mentioned before, like in part of connecting you know, off limits public lands through to the public again, so Land of Water Conservation Fund is one of those things that we can use to go in there and do that easement on a thousand acre ranch at the foothills of mountains that then connects the public with an area that can no longer get to to go hunting. UM. So they're all sorts of benefits with this. There was a you know, a cool piece I think it was in one of the outdoor rags, I think Field and Stream or Outdoor Life that talked about a world record big horn that was shot not too long ago in an island in Montana, and that island was brought through with LBCF funds and you know. So it's it's things like that that this is a mom and apple pie, you know, program for sportsmen, and it is again just another one of these sort of travesty is the way we run our government. That this money was certisfied for this purpose us and it's not being used for that purpose, and it's billions of dollars it should have gone into conservation over the past fifty years have been suburnted for other things. And we ought to just be putting our foot down and saying that this is incredibly important. It's not just incredibly important for hunting and fishing and water quality, but for bird watching and hiking. And this is one of the programs that's really brought by partisan support for conservation interests. But there are some basically with the fame folks that really don't like public lands, you want to get rid of the public lands or dead set in fighting you know, this program. So then it, like you said, every time I hear about this, every time I read something about this, it just seems like such a no brainer. Positive, what's the action that we need to take to make sure that we don't see this cut or not reauthorized or not refunded. Contact your congressman, contact the Trump administration and say that the Land Water Conservation Fund is an incredibly important program for sportsman and that you know Congress to reauthorize it and fully fund it. Perfect simple enough, right, very simple. And again you can go to our website and you'll find out lots more about that that we did report that's on our website a few years ago, just laid out ten examples of how Land Order Conservation Fund has been used for great sportsman's access programs. Excellent. Well, what while we have you, I guess, is there anything else that is top of your mind that that we need to be knowing about what's happening right now in d C or elsewhere pretending to deer hunters or public land or overall conservation, anything else that we need to be keeping our eyes on. Yeah, there's a cool thing that I was announced out of the department the Interior Secretary Zincy a couple of weeks ago, and it's a big emphasis on migration corridors and listen, I've been very critical Secretary Zincy. I mean it was a big support of his when he came in, but felt that he had just sort of been over backwards to open up areas to development, had done nothing for conservation since then. Um. But to his credit, you know, they announced a new Secretary order to require all the age seeds within Department the Interior to work together to protect and strengthen migration corridors. And you know, I mean we have sportsmen know that animals migrate, and you know, have held my hunting places in my campus in the Adondex and you know, the white tails out of there migrate out of our place every year down to you know, an area of twenty plus miles away where they basically overwinter in place like Montana. There's new research on mule deer migrations. Um. And then they have been you know, National Geographic others have covered really cool stuff the path of pronghorn. We know a lot more than we used to know about these migration quarterors. So you can preserve a lot of these big game species pretty simply by targeting. Let's keep development out of these corridors. Let's really focus on, you know, working with the states and private land ours to fix some fencing problems we might have if we have an overpassed or underpass that needs to go in the Highway. Let's work with Department Transportation on that. I mean, it's really a no brainer. But you know, and told this this stircuitar order that came out, there really never been an emphasis from the part of the Interior to focus on that. So I think that's worth noting. And I think that's something that's really cool and we hope that it becomes more than just a circuit of order. That's some real meat gets put on those bones and that that's something great for the hunting community. Yeah, I agree. When I saw that that was that was good news that I was glad to see. Alright, So final question then what and you mentioned are anybody just want to give you an opportunity to do so one more time? Where can people go to follow what you guys are doing, to get more information like this and to stay up to date. Yeah, just go to We don't do a magazine or anything like that. So everything that we have is on our website and it's Tierra CP dot org and you signed up there, Um, you will get a weekly update, you know on you know, what's going on in Congress. I have some fun stuff too. I think our website does a really good job and there are a variety of things you go through it. We have a you know, aside on you know, just pushing back against the Taco for public lands. We have another site called Sportsmen's Country dot org, this petition site that really calls on sportsmen to weigh on on how do we making sure we better managed lands we have that's better forest management to um, you know better you know facilities, you know that from everything from campgrounds to roads to trails. Um. But you will see if you go through that site, if you're a sportsman, there's gonna be something in there that's interesting to you. And if you have questions, you know, it's We also have a staff directory there and you just click on somebody's name and you know, get their email address and send him a note and just ask more questions. And if you also we have some great problems some of our friends like Sitka and first Light and others, and feel free to write a check and get something cool there. You go. Well, I said at the beginning, and I'll say it again, I personally check your guys site almost daily. UM It's it's some of the very best stuff out there to help us keep track of what's happening, So I highly recommend anyone if you're not already signed up for that newsletter, if you're not already checking out their blog on their website, you really should do it. So keep up the great work, and thank you so much for being here. Mark, keep up your great work too, and thank you for having me absolutely, And that's it for us today, folks. A short one, but interesting and important stuff. And part of the reason why this is a quick one and why there wasn't the long intro is because actually, right now, if you're listening to this, when this podcast drops, I am actually out in North Dakota. I mentioned this on last week's episode, but I'm out there right now, shed hunting and scouting and figuring some stuff out out there in western North Dakota with my buddy Further and my dog Boon and having a grand old time hopefully, And if you're interested in following along with that trip, you can check out assuming that I've got internet service where I'm at, which hopefully I will. I'll be posting lots of updates on the Wired Hunt Instagram account, and we're gonna try to do semi live YouTube videos while we're out there. Documenting the venture, So head on over to the Wired to Hunt YouTube channel check out what we posted so far, and if for some reason we don't have that service, I'll be posting all these videos when I get home, which should be soon. So thanks for checking those out. And then finally want to give a big thank you to our partners who helped make all of this possible. So big thanks to Sick gear Yeddie Cooler's, Matthew's Archery, may Haven Optics, the White Tail Institute of North America, Trophy Ridge and hunter ra Maps, and of course thank you all for listening. I appreciate you tuning in, I appreciate you paying attention and you know, stepping up to help out on some of these types of issues. We couldn't we couldn't do this kind of stuff without you guys. Your support, your interest, your energy is what fuels this podcast, and that's what fuels the future of hunting in this country and this continent. So big props to all of you, Thanks for being awesome, and stay Wired to Hunt up