00:00:01 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the modern white tail hunter, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and today on the show, I'm joined by Lee Ellis of Seek one to discuss exactly how he handles some of the toughest deer hunting scenarios in the white tail woods. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light. Today we are continuing are what would You Do series, wrapping it up actually, and as you know if he's listened to the three previous what we do here is we run our guests through a bunch of different hypothetical hunting scenarios. And this year I've I've taken a number of questions and ask them to each one of our guests. So you've heard a few of these over and over and over again. And I did that on purpose because I think it's very interesting and and and kind of enlightening to see how each one of these very successful hunters handles the same kind of situation and they each do it in a different way that I think is kind of encouraging, and I think it's a great reminder for all of us that there's not just one way to do this that just because so and so from Iowa says you have to do it this way, that you can't do it in a completely different way in Michigan or Georgia or Mississippi or Pennsylvania, whatever it is. I think we can learn something from all of these people and then figure out what works in our neck of the woods with our style. And today's guest is a perfect example of this kind of person who's got a very unique kind of niche, but which I think we can learn from and apply to our places. So this is Lee Ellis today. Lee Ellis is one of the founders of seek one Productions, just a super entertaining, very successful UH deer hunting YouTube channel, social media, full package of media offerings, and they focus on urban deer hunting. So the kind of thing that I did last year with Taylor Chamberlain, you know, Lee is doing this to you know, just an unbelievable degree with the quality of deer him and his buddies are killing. And they've done it in Georgia, They've done in Tennessee, they've done in Ohio, all sorts of different places. They're spreading out and proving that this style of hunting works all across the country. So today we're getting that d i y perspective from someone who knocks on doors, who gets permission to chase deer, and kind of funky, different kinds of places, and it's something you can do anywhere if you want to check out and see a little bit of of background, I suppose only in this style of hunting. I recommend you listen to our first podcast with him, episode two thirty nine. We kind of cover the basics and the foundation of how Lee hunts, why he does this, the the basic kind of stick. This is like their style of hunting. But today we're gonna get into the specifics of unique scenarios and situations and uh, you know, just like we do on the Gauntlet, Lee's got some good ideas, some interesting stories, and uh, I really enjoyed this one. So I think it's a great way to wrap up our August and then jump into the season. I mean, for a lot of us, September means so I'm very very excited. I want to give you guys one heads up some house cleaning before we get into it. I've been telling you guys about my new gear recommendations page on the Meat Eater store. You've heard me say it before, I'll say it again. You go to store dot the meat eater dot com slash mark, and you're to see my top recommendations as far as what we offer over on the Mediator store, from First Life, from f HF, from all the different brands and manufacturers that we now carry. So that's that my little pitch for the day, pre sweet deal for those of you in the market. I hope you appreciate it. If you're not in the market, no, biggie, ignore me. Stick around for a great chat with Lee. You're gonna enjoy this one, and I appreciate you. Let's get into it here with me now on the Wire Dump podcast, and this is the first for me. I'm recording while driving in a pickup truck and I'm not driving, I'm sitting the passenger seat. But with me, we've got Lee Ellis, Lee, welcome to the show Man. Thanks for having me, glad to be here. We've got crazy schedules to both of us, so we had to get creative when how we could fit this in. So thank you for making the time we've been dancing around. Uh for a while, when I've had stuff going on, you've been free. When you've been free, I've had stuff, or when you've been busy, I've been free. Since Yeah, we've finally the stars of a line in our schedule are free. So and like like a three week window of August, this is the only couple hour window I think we've had that actually lines up. So we're making it work however we can, so hopefully if folk can hear this all okay, But as as you know, Lee, we're in the middle of this kind of series where I'm going through this this what would You Do? Gauntlet where I'm basically running people through a bunch of these challenging, um tricky hunting scenarios and then seeing how they would deal with them. So I've got a bunch of these four you. There's a couple of doozies in here. There's a couple that might bring up bad memories. Uh, I'm just gonna see if you can make it through to the end. So are you Are you game for that challenge? Yeah, I'm I'm totally game. I think that uh, there's gonna be I think that's one of those things where it's kind of like there's no right or wrong answer. I think I think that, uh, people have different hunting styles, so my answer may be different than you know, someone else's answer. Uh, but I think that that's kind of like how your approaches would would It's gonna play into kind of how you would attack these scenario. You're gonna like, yeah, so true. So give me as much of that color when once I give you some of these some of these situations feel free to you know, give me as much of that context as far as how you're thinking about it, why you would think about it that way, even like things have happened to you in the past that have now color the way you make these decisions. I think that ends up being the most interesting stuff, you know. Yeah, sure, so so let's just get into it. And this is a situation that I'm gonna lay out here for you that I know you've You've been in this situation in the past. You've been in this scenario, and so imagine this. Imagine you get word of a giant deer. Someone on Instagram sends you a d M or something says, hey man, there is an absolute monster buck in my city, in my neighborhood. That's just next level. And I know you're into this kind of thing. If you're interested, you should come out check it out, see if you can get this buck. But this is this is not near where you live, so it's gonna require a drive, it's gonna require some some detective work. You know, nothing more than there's a big buck in this general area. That's all you've got. You don't have any access, you don't have any GPS coordinates, you don't have any hey, I know he lives in this property, none of that stuff. Yeah, the question is this number one? Would you follow up on the lead like that, just like a random DM and a picture from somebody? Would you chase that down? And what would be your game plan for that question one? Yes, that's question one? Would you follow it up at number two? What's the game plan for getting in on that spot? Okay, Um, you're throwing you're throwing me a fastball down the middle here. This is uh, this is right my alley. That is Um. It's honestly, it's kind of a double EDGs over in a way because we have found I mean, the day is just social media. Everyone's got cell phones and they got really nice cameras. It's like pick just get spread around so fast with social media these days that, uh, you know, it's pretty common that a lot of leads we find or stuff that maybe not that was sent to us necessarily like directly to us, but we saw posted on Facebook forums or some hunting forums or Instagram, whatever it be. Uh, there's a lot of information out there, and we do get sent a bunch of d m s about you know, people sharing deer and things like that. But it has also gone the opposite way for us, where I've gotten a d M and someone's like, hey, I saw a huge buck off of this road, like he ran across the road whatever or in this field, and you know you should definitely go pursue them. So I go spend you know, weeks trying to get permission there and running cameras just to get a picture of the deer. And it's like, you know one twenty, which is still a good deer, but you know, it's just it's not what we were, you know, looking for kind of thing. So like we've I honestly cannot tell you how much time has been spent uh following up leads that go to dead ends. I would say the matt vast majority of them lead to dead ends. Um can't get permission or the deer's not you know what he thought he was. So whenever I do get a lead a d M or see something on social media, obviously like seeing a picture of the deer can confirm for you right then and there, like hey, that's a huge deer. But at the same time, I like, I'll give you an example. Last year, there was a picture that went around Atlanta of this deer that is two I mean way over two hundred, but believable to be in Atlanta, and was told you know where it was. I spent weeks getting permission and running cameras trying to find this dear last summer just to find out this guy had posted it on a social media friends to say that he saw this huge deer in Atlanta and he just didn't want to own up to it. When I asked him like, hey, is that legit, he didn't want to own up to it and be like, no, man, I posted it as a joke. He totally just like for whatever reason, just didn't tell me the truth and was like you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like I saw this, you know huge deer blah blah blah, Like so I spent so much time wasted during that so um, there is a lot of that that happens, but it also is what leads you into finding some of these, like you know, crazy big deer. A current situation that you and I were talking about four we hit recorders. I'm chasing a deer in I'll be vague at the time, being in a in a northern state that is like I can't even describe how enormous he is, and I've I've gotten my own trail camp pictures of him. I plan on dedicating the vast majority of my season two this year. Uh, he will definitely be the biggest year I've ever hunted. And that all came from, you know, a combination of seeing some stuff on Facebook and getting a couple of d m sent to me like hey, there's this rumor, dear, and I just basically I feel like I haven't even answered your first question yet. Uh, well, you said you'd go after it, so that's the big one. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, when you can confirm that the deer's legit, yeah, I mean we're going after you know a lot of different dear. H So there's this big northern deer that's that you got wind of. Let's let's kind of play on this example, I guess. So you get wind of it, you confirm with a few people, like yeah, they they check this. This this deer he's rumored around here. How do you actually zero in? I mean, do you do you just spend a weekend and like start casting a wide net. Do you plan on multiple trips throughout the year, like what's that actually look like to find an out of state location like that and somehow zero in on a deer like this that you just vaguely know exists in the general region. So a lot of it is picture matching. Um, there was a deer I killed in Atlanta that was like the first real big deer as a deer we called Charlie's the first video we ever did. The reason I found that dear is because there was a picture of him standing in a parking lot. Uh and I was able to match the apartment complex, apartment and parking lot that he was in. So once I matched the picture, I knew right in and there boom, all right, it's a legit. So whenever we can, if you can match a picture, then you know, boom, all right, this is real, it's legit. This is where this deer was seen. A lot of it. A lot of that is boots on the g on so um. This particular northern deer was seeing him on Facebook, different forums. You're seeing all kinds of road names up there. And I drove up there and just started door knocking. And you know, after you talked to fifties, sixties, seventy different people, you start to you know, every door knock. I'm trying to get information. So I'm like, you know, I've got a picture of this dear from social media, and I'll flash him a picture of it and be like, you know, have you even if it's a no, even they say no to hunting, I'll still you know, strike up a conversation with him, show him a picture, and you know, they can sometimes be like oh yeah, yeah, like I've totally seen that dear. He's huge, or they'll be like no, I've never really seen one that big. Um. And so that particular northern deer, just from door knocking, I was kind of able to match like, Okay, this person has never seen him, this person's ever seen him, this person claims they've seen one like him or probably seen him, and you part you start to kind of put the pieces of the puzzle together. And then eventually I ran into someone who actually had a picture on their phone of the deer, and that's how I confirmed that that's where you know, that was that deer's range. And then so then I just you know, hit it running from there and just kind of started to branch out and get as many cameras out in that in that particular area. Is there every situation like this Lee where there'll be a buck that's too well known, like everyone knows about it and multiple people are are are after will you ever pull out of the pull out of the contest because you just know it's gonna be a mess with nine other guys in there or something like that. Yeah, I, um, I don't really like to hunt deer. They are they are well known. UM, I just don't like to start the pot with Karen's and people like that. I just I don't really if a deer is super well known, it's it's not like I'm gonna go, you know, a target that particular dear I tried to find. Dear, they're not that well known. But there was a particular deer in Ohio that was pretty well known and he was probably two inches. Last year, Wow, a door knocked on a church and they had like six acres behind their church. I got the yes, I go back there, and the rubs I found were unreal, Like I've literally never seen the size rubs that I saw behind this church. And I was like, this has to be that buck. And uh. As I was walking out there and sticking a camera out, I actually had a guy that was currently hunting that deer two houses over. He's probably, you know, a couple hundred yards away, saw me walk out from his stand and put a camera up. I didn't even see. The guy ended up making a condor becoming buddies with him, and he's hunted the deer for several years, and I just was like one out of respect for him and he's put in several years hunting this deer. I was like, you know what, I don't want to, you know, interfere with your hunt for this dear, but too, I don't want to sit in the stand and be looking at this guy every single time that we go to hunt and just kind of way at each other and be like, hey, what, dude, like, that's not I don't really like that. It's not really my style, and so I backed off of that, dear. This year, he's two, wow, I can I can? Can we say I have a spot to hunt a two hundred fifty inch dear? But I have chosen not to. You're a little crazily but I respect you for it. Um so that this is exactly my next question. So you just you just answered my next scenario. But what if I were to pivot a little bit on what you just described there? So so imagine you've got an amazing spot like that where you know there's a big deer, You've got him on camera, he seems dialed in, and you feel good about it. But you go in there to hunt. In this situation here is that it's not another guy that has permission, but you spot a trespasser that comes in, so you're hunting. You catch a trespasser coming in that's trying to hunt the same spot. What do you do in that scenario? Do you a do you confront him or not? And then be when that's all done, do you do you back out as well because you know that this guy is messing around or is that a scenario where you will still push it because you're hoping to get rid of him or or whatever. So if I have a scenario where I'm hunting, this actually happened to me last year in Tennessee. Um, if i have a scenario where I'm hunting and you know, I run into a trespasser, the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna confront him, not in an aggressive way. I'm just gonna go up to him and have a conversation with him. I'm I'm not gonna you know, I don't know who you're walking You don't know, you never know who you're walking up on. They've obviously got a bow and arrow with some weapon. It's like the last thing you need to go do is go add fuel to a fire and just you know, be aggressive. But yeah, I'm go have a conversation with the guy, and I'll obviously let him know like, hey, this is property I have written permission to be on. I'll make sure that he, you know, the landowner hadn't given permission to someone else or anything like that. And so if I know that he's you know, not supposed to be there, I'll ask him, like respectfully to leave. Um, But if it takes a step further or like you know, I'm not going to call the game warden for like just right off the cuff. I'm gonna have a conversation with this dude and see if I can just handle it myself first. Um, And if it continues to be an issue from there, I feel like that's when you probably have to, you know, contact the landowner and see kind of what they wanted to do about it. So, um, I would. But you're saying, like with him pressuring the de year, would you move on from that area? Yeah? Like so, so you're not backing out out of respect like you would with the other person. So when this case, would you back up just because you think it's busted or would you keep trying? I would, depending on how much pressures in there, Um, I would probably back out completely. I'd run a lot of cameras and you know, see if that deer is kind of getting comfortable being back in there, and then I would kind of make my approach. I definitely would not keep pushing it. If there's been a lot of human activity in that area, I would back out. Let everything settle down in there. Um. And sometimes that's weeks before you know, things start to kind of return to normal. Yeah, But I've also had areas that, you know, some of the some of the places that we originally hunted in Atlanta sixteen years ago, we're absolute honey hooles. And now there's a lot of hunting pressure in some of these places and it's kind of ruined some of these areas that these these deer are very keen to human presence. And there hadn't been a shooter buck in one of these places that used to have two or three every year and years because these bucks no, you know, hey, I'm experiencing hunting pressure here. Everyone avoid that likes they just know to avoid that area. Um, I think if that I think if that area has left alone for a year or two, that it would return to normal. But um, these deer are super super good at finding where there's pressure and where there's not. Like they're unreal at finding where they're left alone and where they're experiencing pressure. So would that in mind here here's the situation that things kind of tied into that. Let's imagine you're you're in your home turf. Now you're back back locally, and there's a spot where you've had a big giant buck on camera for an entire year previous and for whatever reason, you didn't go after him, but you've been following him. You know he's there. He's pretty consistent. The summer arrives. You continue getting pictures of him all through the summer up until two weeks before opening day, and for those two weeks prior to opening day, no pictures. Ye, nothing. Opening day arrives, you still don't have pictures of him. When you look at that first day, are you going to hunt blindly in these places where he used to be or are you now at this point in search mode and you don't hunt and in our stead trying to find where he is? Which would yeah, I am absolutely not hunting that spot. Um, I would be leaving that place alone, because your first set is always your best set and if you plan on hunting that spot or like you know, if he happens to come back, you know, during the rut or whatever, and you've already had a lot of those deers start to pattern you like where you're parking, where you're coming in, where you're exiting those other does and younger bucks in there, like if they're already patterning. You you know, you're you're really affecting that area, even if he's in there or not. I believe, and I don't want any of those dear to be aware of my presence and me going in and out at all. So if he's not in there and I haven't seen him, sure you can get lucky and the day he happens to come back, you're there. But I'm in that situation, I'm never hunting there. I feel like my time is better spent being back in search mode, getting more spots, getting new cameras out and finding kind of where he's at. H I rarely am ever hunting. I'm rarely ever putting in sits where I don't feel like I'm in the game, Because if I don't feel like I'm in the game, I'm just kind of doing more harm than good to that area. So in that scenario, the week the seven days prior, what does search mode look for you for this seven days prior to that hunt? I mean, I'm curious, like how many days are you doing something? What do you what actually is the time component? Like how much time are you spending on any one of these outings? Is it just door knocking? How many doors would you try, Like, what's the scale of the net you would try to cast? Now at this point, what would that look like in that seven days prior? So I would obviously get back on my maps and be kind of looking at, you know, where potentially he could have gone, uh, you know, in places I haven't been um And I will door knock and get as many cameras out as I possibly can until I get a picture of him. Sometimes that's I've had fifteen spots to hunt one particular dear before um so. But sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes I've only got two or three spots that I've got to hunt end dear, and I'm seeing him on those cameras. Um So, in that scenario, he's been gone for seven days, Like seriously, even if it's opening day, I'm not hunting. He hadn't been in there. I'm not hunting. I'm door knocking, getting more cameras out, getting more eyes in the woods, and trying to relocate kind of where he went. So I'm kind of starting to cast a small net, you know, going a quarter mile or less, um and then you know, kind of branching out from there. So I kind of just slowly kind of worked my way out until I happened to stumble upon kind of where he's gone. But the crazy part is, and this is extremely common and these areas, is that the week of the season, it just seems like these dear no and they change their pattern. And I've I've had dear go three or four miles and completely relocate from their summer area right at at beginning time for him of the season. And it's like you almost have to get just extremely lucky too, you know, refined that deer. So a lot of times, you know, if a deer goes missing, like we try our best to relocate them, but a lot of times we don't. And sometimes they'll return later in the year, um and we have a chance to hunt him then, but sometimes we It's kind of one of those things where it's like, yeah, we have this deer in the summer, but when he breaks for the season, like, for the life of me, I have no idea where he goes. M how much time would you give a buck like that, Like how long would you invest in trying to rEFInd before you pull the plug? Is it? I mean, I'm sure it's dependent on the deer and stuff. Like that. But what's your typical amount of effort you'll put in until you finally decide and it's just not it's not gonna happen. Well, if it's a big enough dear, it doesn't ever end. Uh you know, it's it's uh well obviously, I mean, you know, we're trying to find something else to hunt. But if it's a big enough dear, I'll will spend the whole year, uh you know, continue to get new spots and just kind of hope, hope that we stumble upon them. Um, so I would, I would kind of say that it's almost never ending. Okay, So so what about this? Then let's let's take a different approach. Let's say the buck is showing up, and how about we'll go back to your northern buck example. You've zeroed in on him. You put so much time and energy into this situation, and he's daylighting like he's a buck that's showing up on your cameras. It's early October, he's in daylight. The couple of previous days, you head in for a hunt, you feel good about it, You get in their access feels great, everything feels great. No show doesn't show up and you gotta go home, said, you head home, you give opportunity now, like the following weekend maybe to make the trip again, and lo and behold, you're getting a couple of days of daily pictures again leading up to your next trip. Conditions are good. You're heading for the second hunt of the year, feeling great again. No show, this happens a third time. You stick around. You hunt again that next day because still the wind is good, you feel confident about your access. You've now had three hunts after this buck, all of them following up daylight trail camera pictures. But he's not shown up any one of those times. You go in. What do you do in that scenario? Will you continue on your current path with the same access, the same ideas you've had, and just hope that you know it's gonna turn out, or at what point do you pull the plug and say he's onto me, I'm I need to do something different. Uh. That's a really good question, and kind of like I said earlier, these dear, I don't I think we don't give him enough credit sometimes for how good they are at patterning you. And I cannot tell you how many times that happens to us. It happens every year. You know that we get a here on camera, he's consistent. All right, we're green lighting to go hunt him. We go sit nothing, you know, sit again, nothing, and it's like the days that we pull out, he's daylighting again. Go back in there. And even even if you think you're doing everything perfect, like you do everything to the best of your ability, and he's still not showing he's onto in my opinion, Um, and that's where if that happens two or three times, that is where I'm going to take a step back and be like, all right, I gotta rethink what I'm doing here of how I'm accessing access to these places is almost as important as anything. Um I hunted a d or here's here's kind of an example for you. And this was this was probably four or five years ago. And like we're always still learning every single year, we're learning new things. Uh, we definitely don't have it figured out. Like we don't have it all figured out. There are things to learn every year, and you need to be a sponge to try and absorb any lessons to be learned from every hunt, every situation. Question I had a deer. This was probably I think four years ago and that exact scenario that deer is in there. He loved this area, but every time I was in there, he was never there, never be found. And I hunted fifty times in a in a seat in one season. I sat fifty sits, parking my truck in the same parking spot and accessing the woods the same way. And every single time I'd go to sit, I would not see that dear and every time and be gone. He'd come through like it was nothing, and he was he was so confident and when I was there and when I wasn't, Like he loved that area, but he was so confident and he knew my my pattern and what I was doing that when he knew I wasn't there, he was like, you know, daylight, middle of the day, there all the time. Uh. And so I've I've sat fifty times. And at the end of the season, I was like, or actually what happened was later in the year, I pulled my truck up to my parking spot. I hadn't even gotten out of the car, and I heard a dear blow like you know, way in the woods, way down deep into this ravine and stuff, and I'm like, sign of a bit, they figured out where I'm parking, and so that's when it kind of clicked in my head. I was like, they've they've figured me out. And so this was late in the year January. I'd gone this whole season accessing and parking the same spot, and I had changed my trees, like I had changed the tree. I had my stand in like three or four times in this area, thinking, oh, you know, they pegged me in that tree, or I'm gonna make my access shorter. And so instead of going, you know, a hundred yards in the woods, I'm gonna go forty yards into the woods, just like changing things up, you know. But what it was was where I was parking and walking in like they had it figured out. So I sat fifty times accessing and parking from that same spot. I let my I let the area layoff, let my cameras roll in the there. He came back in there, he settled in there, got comfortable. I asked the landowner if I could access from the opposite side of the property just one time, and I killed a deer the first set changing. And it was because he I actually used what he had figured out about me. I had is that against him because he was like, if that truck doesn't pull up in that spot, we're good to go. And that day, that truck didn't pull up in that spot, and he got up like he was good to go, and that's when I killed him. So where was he? Did you see where he betted or where he came from? Did you do you kind of understand how he had you pegged? Once he saw what he actually did. He was betting literally right next to where my truck would park. So when I was pulling my truck in, that's where he was. He was he was He knew it immediately and then and then would leave. There was no second guessing. When I was in there. As soon as the truck was there, he was twenty yards from the truck boom gone. Is that a thing you have you ever seen anything like that before? Where these big old deer actually figure out that betting closer to human access is safer from like a surveillance standpoint. Is that a thing you've seen before? Absolutely, which which makes them And that's that's kind of what's Tricky's like, Uh, this so this deer up north, Uh, this real big one I'm talking about, he will stroll through people's yards no problem. And seeing the videos and pictures and stuff, like, you're like, where's the challenge in hunting that deer. But when I went up there and started door knocking all of the large blocks of woods, like the obvious blocks of woods to go door knock, con every single one of them has hunters, and that deer is purposely avoiding those large blocks of woods. Like instead of taking a creek through all these woods to get from one block of woods to the other, he'll roll through people's yards to get from point A to point B because he's like, I know, I can't be messed with here. And he's experienced pressure. He actually got shot last year by a hunter and it didn't kill him. They hit him in no man's land, um, And so I know he's experienced all this this hunting pressure in these places and he's very clearly avoiding them. So yeah, I mean, but to kind of really answer your question, yeah, absolutely, Like these dear uh, they bed where they can know that the area they're gonna get up, get up and go spend time in, Uh, they know that it's not been tampered with, So they will they will position themselves in places where they're able to kind of be aware of what's happening in there. All right, Well, let's say you're up north, You're in one of these spots, You're up in your tree, and here he comes. He pops out of a little piece of brush on the edge of the yard or something. You had your access just right, and he's at sixty five yards heading your direction. Walk me through through what is going on in your head, Like specifically, do you say anything to yourself? Do you have a mantra? Do you what? When do you reach for your bow? How are you going to be thinking about these next ten seconds when the biggest buck of your life is rolling in You even invested so much time and energy into There's gotta be pressure. There's gotta be stress. How do you manage that? What do you do? So early on in my hunting career was pretty brutal on me, uh, to the point where like multiple times I just wanted to just hang it up and quit because I was experiencing like heartache after heartache because you know, when I was sixteen and stumbled upon Drew and I stumbled upon the Atlanta thing. Uh, you know, we have real big deer to hunt and so it's like, you know, I didn't really grow up on a hunting family. So if it weren't for stumbling onto the door knocking thing, never would have fallen in love with hunting. But that being said, I didn't have someone teaching me from day one. You know, hey, wait for the deer to do this or this or that. And so I was making mistakes. You know, I can shoot my bow and hit hit a you know, the target as good as good as you want, but when it's a deer's in front of you, it's a total different scenario. You gotta read the deer's body language, you gotta read what angle he's at. You know, there's so much that goes into making a well placed shot, an effective kill shot on an animal. Um, I wasn't really prepared for that. And so I was you know, hitting deer uh, and you know, hit a deer in the shoulder or in no man's lander or a quarter two or he's like you know, alert and ducks, and just I wasn't. I also like I had a hard time. I wasn't hugging the shoulder. I would kind of pay nick and I would be like kind of back off the shoulder. A bit, and uh, you know, I end up hitting dear like in the liver and stuff like that, and just uh, it made for some really tragic, like heartbreaker stories on really nice bucks. It's not like, you know, I messed up on a dough. Um, although that sucks, it's not as as gut wrenching is if it's as if it's a hundred fifteer. So like my early early on, my career like was full of just mistakes, mistakes, mistakes, and I think a lot of it was due to rushing the situation. Um, things just started happening so fast and I couldn't control my head and things would rush, and I'd rush into a shot that was not an effective shot. And I should have been patient and I should have waited. So there's kind of a combination of things. Now you have to be paid patient and take the right shot, but you also have to be aggressive when that shot opportunity happens. You can't hesitate. Um, when I see that, Dear, I'm trying to slow everything down as as best as I possibly can. I'm trying to slow everything down in my head. Uh, And that's really all I'm focusing on, is slowing things down, slowing things down. Focus on the focus on killing deer. Focus on killing deer. Be patient, but slow it down, Slow it down, because I think a lot of mistakes are made when people just rushed the moment because they're jacked up. So like, I try to force myself to slow down. Um. But one of the biggest things that I've done that has helped me just become better at just killing deer is, uh, shooting a ton of doze. We've got a pile of does here, and when you shoot ten does a year, you get to feeling that confidence that you're just just feel deadly. And so I've kind of got that confidence with me now where it's like if a deer is sixty yards and then he's in my mind, I have that confidence like he's dead. And that comes from shooting a lot of deer, shooting does. Um. It's just kind of that confidence that you have, like that you kind of carry with you. So I like, if I had to give any advice to someone kind of getting into this or or starting into bow hunting, is like, don't jump right into it and try to kill a hundred fifty deer, Like go on a go on a place where you know, you can shoot a dough you know, kind of go through and find find the motions that work for you, on on what calms you down, and kind of the system you have that helps you put, you know, an efficient shot on a deer so that you're kind of ready for when that moment happens, because it's it's impossible to replicate that just adrenaline dump when you lay eyes on a deer you're after. Yeah, that's true. But my big thing is I'm just I'm just trying to slow things down. Focus on really just slowing it down. Is there any trick or I mean, like I guess the question that I'm still wondering about it is like how do you actually slow it down? Because like, like I intellectually know I need to slow it down the moment, but it's a lot harder to know I need to slow it down versus like figuring out a way to hit the brakes and actually make my crazy mind do that in that high pressure situation. Like, do you have any thing that you always do to force the slowing? Not really? Um, I mean I've remembered several times where like I've had a deer in range and he was like facing me for a long time, and I remember in my head, I'm like, I've got to pretend like this isn't happening, Like I've got to put myself somewhere else, like I'm on the beach, I'm doing something like I'm having a beer. I'm not you know, I'm I'm doing anything I can to be like I'm not here right now. I don't know if it really works or not. I don't think it does. But um, the only thing I'm really doing when you know, I see a deer like that, is I'm trying to I'm I'm telling myself in my head be patient, Like be patient, be patient, be patient, but be ready. It's like, I'm ready to kill that deer at any second, but be patient, be patient, like wait for the right shot. And you know, don't. I'm I'm not going to force a shot and take a marginal hit on an animal. Um, you know, I would rather take the chance of I'm gonna get back on that deer at another time then you know, put a really bad hit on a deer. Ah. So I'm I'm pretty much just telling myself be patient in my head. Yeah, Well, I hate to do this to you. But I'm gonna I'm gonna force you to consider tragedy again, okay, because I want to know what you would do. And this is a situation that actually happened to me last Yearly. I went on my first urban deer hunt last year, and was that with Taylor? Yeah? Yeah, it went with Taylor, and I got a shot at a deer and the hit looked good in the moment um, but the blood trail wasn't as the arrow, and the blood trail was not as good as I was hoping it would be. It did not match what I thought I saw in my mind's eye. So it's getting worse and worse and worse. And we follow that blood trail all the way to a property line, and I have to go and find the property owners and get permission. So I go to the door, knock on the door, and the landowner is like wigging out, like no way, I'm calling the cops on you. There's no way you can track the here. What do you do in this scenario like that where you have hit a deer, it's crossed the line and the landowner won't give you permission. Whether it be like just freaking out like that or I've be curious what they do. What you would do in my situation where the cops were called and came out, how would you handle that. I'm really glad that your first urban experience the cops are called experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, full experience. Um. So, I've actually never had a situation where a homeowner has refused or landners refused to let me retrieve a dear. I assume the reason that that that they are not wanting you to track is because they're anti hunting. Maybe they like the deer um, they have a heart for the deer, and so I'm trying to, you know, play into that of whether or not they agree with hunting. What's done, what's happened, has happened. They can't change that I've shot this dear. The situation we have is that you either let me retrieved this deer, or the deer can be put to use and we can use the meat and it and all of the deer's used, or you can have the situation where that deer rots and goes to a complete and total waste and having that talk track that conversation, Like, I've never had issues retrieving deer because even if they're adamantly opposed to it. Uh, they still don't want the deer to completely rot and go to waste. That being said, if someone was still just extremely emotional about it, I'd let him call the cops. I would. I would probably encourage them McCaul a, cops, um, you know, and then that way I could be like, look, you could have a conversation with the cops. I'm sure that the cop would be like, look, you know, I could probably call that person down and be like, you know, we are where we are, the deer's back there, you know, can we did? He would. He would probably try to encourage the lanterner to be like, let's not let this deer go to rot. Let's get out of here. Get it out of here, and you know, we can kind of address the hunting issue later. But I would tell him to call the cops. I deal with the cops a lot, so so in my case, the cops were really cool. Um, but the landowners still didn't want us around there. But the situation was different than what you described, was that we didn't know if the deer was dead in there, and it ended up being that the blood trail actually hugged the line and we were able to pick up blood on another neighbor's property right off the edge, and that lander did give us permission, but the trail dried up after that and we never recovered the deer. So that was that's that is one of the toughest parts of There's just there's so many different things that are tough about suburban hunting. One is like tight property lines. You know, you're having to talk to everyone involved. Two is you know, you're just dealing with a lot of people and you just getting a lot of mixed opinions about what you're doing, whether they're against it or for it. And you know, I would much rather, uh have a few hundred acres or a thousand acres where you didn't have to worry about that. But um, you know, this was kind of a the urban game is kind of the cards we were dealt. We're making the most of it, and it's definitely something I've fallen in love with. Even though there are a significant amount of stresses to come along with it. You certainly made the most of it. Definitely, it's not for everyone, Like I I totally get that. Um, you know, some people don't want to deal with with the reason they're going hunting is to get away from people, not to deal with more of them. So, uh, you know, I definitely get that. Some people are like, look, the urban thing not my deal, And I don't blame them at all. It's a it's it takes us us actual kind of hunter. Um, you know, they can tolerate and kind of deal with that stuff. And and again, I think it goes back to you know, everyone's hunting means a lot of things to different people. And if you're doing it to get lost on some big woods where you're not having to deal with people, then and that's your thing, like, go for it. But for me, I grew up in a city and for me to get lost on ten acres is the next best thing where I'm getting away from people. So it's uh yeah, it's definitely different. It's not for everybody. I totally get that, and uh, I'm I'm getting a lot of changing perspectives on it too, because, um, you know, we just went to Hawaii and did a lot of spot and stock stuff. We just got back from Utah and did some scouting for like mule do you're out there. I'm going to Kansas this year. I hunted North Dakota last year, which is, you know, the middle of nowhere, and uh, I definitely get where if you know, I grew up hunting, some of those are big areas where I would kind of be like, you know, not wanting to get into the urban game. Yeah, it's a different whole, different ball of wax. That's ah, that's for certain. Do you think you'll do it again? You know, I kind of fall into the camp of the person you describe, which is I like hunting because I like to get away from people. So I actually grew up like I learned a bow hunt in a semi urban scenario, Like I had three acres behind my parents house and that's where I first bowhunted, And the first deer I ever killed was on those three acres after a couple and their dog came walking past me ten yards in front of my blind. It's like I did that. I have some experience, and I see the redeeming qualities. But if I have a non urban opportunity, which I currently do, I prefer that over that situation just because of the stresses of people, and I don't always like being around people, I guess. So yeah, there's a lot of added stress to it, but so I wouldn't. It's also still super supporting it. Yeah, I can see the appeal. I'm not ruling out going back. It's definitely I have, like I have that personality trait we're if I don't quite get it figured out that first time, that kind of gnaws at me until I can figure it out. So I still think that's a possibility, but I can tell you it won't be this year. I'm taking at least this year off. I can breathe, regroup, and then we'll readdress the situation. Here's another one I got for it leave and this is this is one that I ask a lot of people a question like this because it's a scenario that I come up across hunting in you know, various Midwestern places and stuff, and I'm I'm wondering if it's different for you in an urban situation than it would be for me on a hundred acre farm in the Midwest. So here's the deal. Let's say it's November and you are on the ground scouting a spot. I don't know why you're scouting, but let's say you just had to move into a new prop. Maybe you just got to access on this property and you're walking it for the first time. You get out there and you find just a dynamite spot, like it's a spot that screams big buck. It's a it's like a funnel type location where stuff converges into a relatively narrow area. There's good trails dumping into this spot. There's dough betting up wind of it, and there's just ripped up scrapes and rubs like all the things you dream about. It's all here. It looks great, but there's a problem. The problem is that there's not a good tree with an easy range of this like perfect little convergence of these trails in this little narrow spot. So you've got two tree options. You've got one tree out and that is at twenty yards from this spot where there's a huge scrape and the three trails that all come together, so you could be perfectly twenty yards from this spot. The problem with the tree is that it is a bean pole. It is super skinny, there's zero cover on it, and there's one other trail that's on the down wind side of that as well, and you know that there's a chance that there could be deer coming down wind of you. And it's not you know, you're still you're downwind of the best of the best, but no cover in the tree, and there's still a chance that someone could get behind you. So that's one option. The second option is a perfect tree. It's like a scrubby oak tree with all sorts of branches coming out of it, and there's still leaf cover and you could get up in there and they'll never see you. And it's downwind of all the trails, and there's a little bit of water that's a water feature behind you, let's say, like a pond or a creek or something, so you feel very confident that nothing's gonna wind you. And know, by the way, this is a high deer density area, so there are a deer, a lot of deer moving around. So my question for you, Lee is do you take the easy shot tree that's close to the convergence but has these risks, or do you say, I'd rather be super safely downwind of everything and risk this dear being you know, forty four yards away instead of twenty. What would you do in that case? Uh, that's a enough brainer to me. I'm taking the treat it as further away but more ideal and I guess you could sort of like for me personally, I'm comfortable shooting to to you know, forty yards um. But for someone who's not, I would still say use the tree that's far off of the you know, the scrape and then in the combining of trails and stuff, because you can almost treat that your sits as like an observation set, so you at least know that you're not going in there and blowing stuff off up and busting stuff up and you know, blowing deer out trying to get that perfect twenty yard shot. Ease your way into it. I would start in that tree that's further off, and if you sit there a couple of times and you know, you do a couple of observation sets even and you kind of learned like, okay, these are where the deer coming from. I do think I could get away with being in that beans or that poultry. Um, then you could maybe make an adjustment there. But I definitely would not barge in and uh, you know, be making your presence super known and kind of be risking blowing a bunch of deer out. I would rather play it safe and kind of ease my way into it. I also think that we use mock scrapes a lot, So I would like to get in that tree. That's a lot better. Your winds better, your access is better, your cover is better. I'd throw in a mock scrape twenty five yards from that tree and see if they start to take to it, uh, and then you know, kind of go from there. So interesting. You can also call too, I mean you can rattle and potentially call it you're in the shooting range. But I definitely And that's again, that's just personally, that's my style. Like I want to try and be as smart, and I'm almost like I almost overthink every situation, uh, because I'm so paranoid that these deer are going to be aware of my presence. Is there ever a situation like that where because of the proximity of other people, like specifically with wind. One of the things I wondered about my urban hunt was can I get away with more from a wind perspective, because even if they're not used to people walking down into the creek bottom, there's kids playing on the edge of the yard fifty yards away, and the wind's got to blow in there a lot, And can I get away with the wind being a little bit more funky than I would in other places, Like, would you like take that same scenario, but let's adjust it just a little bit and just say, like the big limiting factor now is just like it's down the bottom and the wind's gonna swirl. You think, like it's a steep little bottom. There's two yards on either side of the creek, but the deer are traveling down the creek bottom. Would you risk a swirly whirly wind down there? Or do you think like you can get away with that sometimes because of the urban you know, stuff going on, So I think, yeah, I mean there's a there's one of the big misconceptions with urban deers that oh, you don't have to worry about your wind. They smell people all the time. They're used to it. Well, they're used to smelling people and being and being able to identify where that that smell, that source is coming from. So if they smell kids playing in the yard and the kids are making noise and moving around and they sit there and they're seeing them, that's no issue to them. But when they're walking through the woods and where you know, times out of a hundred, they're not smelling someone that they can't see, and all of a sudden, they're walking through the woods, they get a whiff of a human and they're like, where where is he? Where is he can't find I can't see him. That's when they're they're busting you. We get busted all time. Um. I had a situation last year where I'm on a doe hunt's late season and you know, I had this deer catch my wind. She blew and kind of ran back like I don't know, eighty yards and she was standing like ten ft below this person's deck, like right behind their garage door and stuff, looking in my direction, like trying to find me. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like those people, like she has to smell humans at that house. There's like there's no doubt they there. Those people are in their yard. I'm sure they're on their back deck. Like she's she has smelled people at that house, yet she's standing there. Are about to blow at me and blow out of here because she smelled a human. But the difference was she couldn't find where I was, and that wasn't normal. So she blew out of there and was standing next to a house that has probably covered in human scent, but you know, the human scent there she's able to identify with that house, but she's still wind checking me blow, you know, lifting her nose up in the air, wind checking me, uh from where I'm hiding in the woods, trying to find where I'm at because she identified that human smell where it's not supposed to be. So they're really good at you know. So my point is that, yes, your your wind and scent is still super super important in these urban areas. I do think think there are situations where dose are potentially more tolerant um if they're around people a ton, like a ton in parks or whatever. Um. You know, I've definitely had situations where like a dough has smelled me and is not cared as much as like a deer on you know, a thousand acres. But the vast majority uh, these deer are extremely keen to human scent where it's coming from. If they can't find it, they'll blow out of there. It's so interesting how they can there. There's this threshold that they figure out that they know it's when it's safe or not. And if you just seem to cross that line a little bit. If it's not we're expected, it's uh, it's alarm bells running fast. And what I've noticed this is for anywhere that you're hunting. We're we're just hunting Hawaii, and we were hunting access dear, and we were hiking kind of in these mountain areas, uh spot and stalking these access to here, and there's hiking trails. Uh you know that people go on on occasion, and um, you know, if we were walking around and stuff, the person we're with who's hunted there, his entire life is trying to mimic a walker, a hiker. He's like parking by this bench his truck by this bench where people parked to picnic and making noise on purpose and acting like this is just you know, we're not a hunter. We're just here on a picnic. We do the same stuff back home, like you're trying to not act like a predator. So if I had landed a brand new hunting spot, then it's November and it's prime time, and I really don't want to go in there and blow the area out. I'll walk in there and purposely be having a conversation with myself. I'll be talking like making noise on purpose. And if I see a deer, I'm not making eye contact with him at all. I'm barely even looking at him, and they'll identify you as like, you know, oh, I've seen this before, as some person that's you know, strolled through the woods that is just exploring or whatever. They'll kind of associate you with like that's just what that was, as opposed to Okay, this person is acting like a predator. They're quiet, they're slipping around, They're paying a lot of attention to me. They're looking at me a lot. You know. I remember one of the biggest year I've ever killed. It was a two inch deear like six or seven years ago, same exact scenario. I got a new spot. The deer went missing, he ran to his rut area, couldn't find him, trying to really locate him. I get a spot. I walked down in this ravine and I'm talking to myself, and he pops up across the ravine like a hundred fifty two hundred yards away, and it's unmistakably him. And instead of sitting there like trying to get pictures or through my binos or anything like that, or paying him any attention. I literally just looked away and walked back up the hill and back up there and just like pretended like I never saw him, paid zero attention, And he didn't give He didn't care at all that he had just had that experience with me. He didn't associate it all with like danger. I think these deer no when you're like paying them attention. Yeah, I think you can take that same kind of approach. You even apply it to you know, farm country or something. But in that case it's you know, the farmer that they're used to, or the dirt bikers or whatever it is. There's different ways you can blend in with what's normal. Just figure out what's the normal thing they're used to use that to your advantage. Alright, Lee, you've made it through the main gauntlet of the what would you do? Trials? But now we've got the rapid fire final round here. I'm just gonna give you a series of quick questions and I'm looking for a one word answer from you, just your gut thought right out the gate. All right, here we go. Number one, does the moon matter to dear movement? Yes? Or no? Yes? Would you take a fifty yards shot at a white tell with your bow yes or no? Yes? If you could only have one of these tools for the rest of your hunt, which would it be rattling anglers or grunt to rattling antlers, expandable or fixed blade broadheads? Oh um, I'm undecided currently? Oh wow? All right? Should you stop a buck that's moving with some kind of sound before shooting with your bow? Yes? Or no? Profitably? Now all right, here's the last one. You can you can give more than a one word answer, or you should give more than a one word answer on this last one. Let's say that I rule the world and I'm going to take away your hunting privileges for the rest of your lifely unless unless you can kill a five year old buck this year, but you only get one day to do it. You get one day to hunt. You can pick any location in any place, in any kind of stand site you want. Tell me the date on the calendar you would choose for this hunt, and describe for me like your perfect scenario for this very high pressure, high stakes hunt. You're gonna tell you location. I mean, you don't need to tell me the specific location, but like I would do this state this kind of spot you know on this date, would you know, whatever date you think would give your best chance. I would go November four, and I would have to go with my bread and butter in Atlanta. Uh, and I would be in hardwoods somewhere around scrapes, scrapes and hard and it would this be like a big chunk of timber that you happen to have, or would it be like a tiny, little focused piece of timber that happens to be just the hot spot? Like, give me a little more detail on what that like ideal scenario would be. It is is Uh, it's it's probably five acres of hardwoods and it funnels out of a much larger, you know, several hundred acre piece of property that cannot be hunted, and they kind of funnel out of that area and kind of funnel into my little five acre ridge. It's like a pinch. So I like areas that pinched her a lot, and this little spot I've got. You know, there's hundreds of wide open acres and they all funnel this little creek in this hardwood ridge into this little area and it puts them, you know, fifty to sixty yards from me coming from It just cuts off a lot of trails they can take. And I'm always looking for really good funnels, So I would say a good hardwood funnel November four with scrapes around. That sounds really good. I like the sounds of it. I feel like I feel good about your chances. Lee. Um, what before I let you go? What? What should people be expecting to see from you guys this year? Where can they follow your content this fall? Um? Anything you want to plug, please let our folks know. Um. Yeah, I mean our channel is uh seek one on YouTube. Um. We are going to be getting content out really quick this year. We're traveling to a lot of new places, places we haven't been. Um, we're branching out. We're sticking to our bread and butter, which is the urban game, the door knocking game. UM, but we are branching outside of that this year with uh, you know, some bigger woods hunts. Uh. I've drew some tags in Kansas. I'm gonna knock on some farmers doors out there, going to North Dakota doing the same thing up there, getting different experiences and uh, you know, wanting to challenge ourselves in different environments. UM. I'll probably be posting most of my stuff on my personal Instagram. Um, I've made this name when I was sixteen year or like fourteen fifteen years old in high school, and I just I should have changed it, but I never did. People as people ask me all the time about that, I'm like, dude, I don't know. I like I made the name and when I was fourteen years old, and I just at some point it was too late and I just never changed it. It's the underscore. Roy is my personal one, and then Sequin Productions is our kind of homepage on Instagram as well. So I gotta ask, is the Northern Buck Hunt? Is that something you're gonna be sharing updates throughout the year or you're gonna keep it quiet till it's all said and done and then we'll find out what happened. To be honest, I was, I was going to, uh, you know, try to. I like to. I like to share my stuff, like you know, I want to keep people like take them along for the ride. So I'm gonna be posting updates on my probably my personal Instagram, um kind of throughout that Ernie. But I've also been sort of coming across the thought process of this, dear is such next level. I might just go dark until it's done. I don't know. Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't blame you. I get that we'll see well. I will be crossing all my fingers and toes and uh, hopefully we can have another chat like this after it's all set and down and have a good story to tell. So one last thing, uh, And the reason I'm bring it up is I'm actually headed there right after we hang up, for the sake of flying under the radar from the Karen's and stuff in these neighborhoods. I've actually I bought a very used and beat up Honda Element at a car auction. I'm a slap a Hello Kitty sticker on the back window, and I promise you that no one's gonna look at that vehicle and think, yeah, that dude's hunting back. There is genius. That is genius. Well if I run, uh huh, Well, good luck, man. I hope it comes together for I appreciate taking time to chat through the stuff. If you want to come to Atlanta, man, you gotta open invite. If you want to revisit that urban, that urban hunt, I feel like I need to at some point. I've gotta I've got to get that monkey off my back, so I'll have to find time to make it happen. Yeah, let's do it, alright, Lee, thanks again. I have a good one. Yeah. See a man all right and that is a rap. Definitely go check out what Lee's got cooking over at the SEQ one YouTube channel. Follow along. I'm excited to see how this season goes for him. So with out of the way, thank you for listening, and until next time, stay wired. Don

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