00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four oh eight. Today the show, I am joined by Nick Penzelto and Hank Forrester of the National Dear Association to discuss the future of the Back forty property. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast, brought to you by on x tay the show. Like I mentioned, we are talking back forty. We're talking the future of the Back forty and I'm excited to dive into this in a real substantial way because, oh, this past fall we gave you some light details. I told you a little bit about what's going on, But today we get to really flesh sh out and tell that story. And I want to start from the very beginning quickly here and and then bring you all the way to present day. But before we get into that, I have got to I've got to lead with the punch line, I guess, which is that because we're so excited about this story of of what's been going on with the Back forty project, that's the property that we bought a Mediator that we've been managing and documenting and sharing that story of the last two years, and and now we're passing it on. That story we're so excited about, especially this next chapter, that we wanted to kind of throw a celebration. And this celebration we're calling the back forty two Fork Giveaway, And what we mean by that is that we are doing a whole, big old giveaway over on the Mediator website in which we are going to be making all of you folks that want to sign up for that that can sign up for this available to get your hands on a first like kit, a weather be rifle, UH Federal Premium ammal, I think up to five worth of Federal Premium ammal, a bench made meet crafter knife, a lifetime membership to on x F h F by No Harness, Vortex Optics, and a whole bunch of other cool stuff. Plus the three winners of this little sweepstakes deal, each of them will get to nominate a new hunter to get a special new hunter gear package too. So if nothing else today, go on over to the meat eater dot com slash fork to sign up for that giveaway and to learn more about all the stuff we're gonna be talking about today. You'll be able to watch a video about this stuff that documents the story you're gonna get to hear. You'll be able to get more details. Sign up see all the rules and the specifics all that stuff at the meat eater dot com, slash fork and f y I on this contest. Uh I believe the dates are. It opens February two and it ends March fourth, two thousand one. So just f y on that one. Now, let's get back to that story. Let's get back to why I'm why we really why we are also excited about this. The story begins with us, you know, deciding to do this back forty project. We decided to buy a farm and we're going to try to steward this place. We're going to try to improve it, manage it, nurture it, learn about it, fix this property up to be a great representation of what you can have when you manage for deer and other wildlife and hunting. Can you get all those things together in the same place, and then can you share that with people? Can you bring other folks out to learn from this place? That's the experiment we are trying to run with the Back forty, and and really this the whole experience for me, really bloomed into this, this idea of sharing, because as as the years progressed from the first year to the second, we progressively invited more and more people out there. First it was consultants, and then it was friends and family members, and then it was new hunt turs and getting their feet on the ground and getting them to to see the place and learn from the place and teach us things on this landscape and showcasing what can be done out here, and inviting new hunters. We got two new hunters out there who who never killed the deer before, and we had a couple other people that are relatively new out there, and it was just it was just a really really cool experience. So coming out of all that, um we wanted to find more ways to continue this journey and to continue being able to share the Back forty with other people. And back when gosh, I can't remember the exact date, but when we were originally trying to figure out like how do we decide the future for the Back forty, how do we figure out how to pass this thing along because from the get go, we weren't going to keep this property to ourselves forever. It was always going to be a temporary thing. And then we're gonna give it away. We're gonna pass it on to someone or something in a way that could continue our mission, hopefully in a way they would protect this landscape, been the animals, and and keep good things happening on this ground. And after a lot of brainstorming and spit balling, we ended up realizing that there was an organization out there who was doing many of the exact same things we are trying to do on the back forty, but they were doing it in a much wider scale, and they had found ways to build systems around how you teach people about this stuff and how you can bring new hunters into the fold. And that organization was the National Deer Association formerly known as the Quality Deer Management Association. And you know, in addition to all the great hunting and management and deer related advocacy work that they do, they also spawned this new hunter recruitment program called Field to Fork, which has gotten a lot of great um momentum around what it's doing. This this program they have which is helping bring adult onset hunters out into these wild landscapes, impairing them with mentors and developing educational experience, says, where these relationships build and you actually get people to stick with this hunting thing. That's what they've done really, really well. And we got to think in what could the back forty do if we brought it along for the National Deer Association to use as a resource, And there was a lot of cool things that came out of that idea. So long story short, as most of you know, we've already announced it in the past, but most of you know that we have decided to donate the back forty property to the NDA, and we've done that so they can use it as a resource as a hub for new hunter education and new hunter mentorship programs. That's what's happening. We're very excited about it. Good things are gonna be happening on the sixty four acres for years to come and and I'm personally thrilled about that. And it's a story that we're excited to continue telling. We're going to continue documenting what's going on out there in partnership with the NDA, and that's what today's conversation is all about we're gonna get into you the nitty gritty of what the n d A sees on this properties, as far as what the future could look like, how they plan to use it, how they plan to share it with other people, what kind of programs they were going to put on there, um, how they are going to document it, how we are going to do things with them, um. All of that is discussed in detail. We actually had an opportunity to get Nick and Hank out on the property at the very end of last year to see it. I gave him a tour, we hunted one evening, and we're gonna share the story of that too. So it's a great chat. These are great guys. The National Deer Association is doing some really good things, and we're just very excited that we can be a part of that now and that the back forward he can continue in a really positive way. So that's what we've got in store. I will stop rambling. I will just kick it over now to our conversation with Nick Penzotto, who's the CEO and president of the n d A, and Hank Forrester, the director of Hunting Heritage. All right with me, now on the line, I've got Nick Penzelto and Hank Forrester from the National Deer Association. Gentlemen, thank you for taking the time to be here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, I'm glad that we can reunite here after what was a really fun get together I don't know, a month and a half ago now on the Back forty. Um, that's definitely something I want to talk about here today. Is is that time we shared together on the farm. But as I mentioned in the introduction that you guys didn't get to hear yet, but everybody else did. Um, you know, I personally and the Mediator team as a whole, it's just really really excited about this next chapter for the Back forty because we we had so many ideas and dreams and hopes for what this property could be, what this project could be, and we had two years to to leave as much of a mark as we personally could in our time. But there's so much more that I've always imagined that could be done with this place and that this place could be used for. And so when it came down to thinking about, Okay, what's the right future, what's the right what's the right opportunity to to guide and steward this place in the coming years. You guys from the get go. I can even remember where I was. I was sitting on the second story floor of the Mediator headquarters in Bosman, Montana, and we're talking about this, and I remember when the idea popped my in my head and I said, Oh, this, this is it. We have to give it to the Quality Deer Management Association, which is now the National Deer Association. I remember having this little epiphany and that just it just seemed like this pine, this guy, amazing thing that if it could happen, it would be great. But right away people are saying, well what about this? What about this? And and the fact that it actually has happened and that we're here talking about this now is personally satisfying for me. But I'm curious to hear what it's like on your end, Nick, where's your head on this? How what do you guys think about what this project looks like, what this opportunity looks like, And what do you think when you first heard about it? Was this something? Uh? I guess I won't put words in your mouth. What do you think about all this? Yeah? Well, first I'm glad you had that epiphany, so thank you for that. Um, you know, it's it's really interesting because my first conversation about the potential for this was about the time that we were talking about merger q D M A and n D A, and I was having some pretty deep discussions with the team about where we're headed in our in our future and a huge, huge part of those discussions is the importance of keeping up our momentum that we have going on on our three initiatives. We talked a ton about Field the Fork, and we talked even more specifically about the back forty and in a partnership with Meat Eater, And you know, at that time, it was still I think it was it was still pretty much just a vision. It was an idea and it hadn't happened yet. It wasn't real. But even at that point, it's just it's something that just made an awful lot of sense. And so but you know, we've all seen many things that make a lot of sense that for whatever reason never never make it the fruition. But then in our conversations, as things kind of rolled along, um, it just looked more and more positive in terms of where I'm at um. You know, the back for e is a it is a real place. We've set foot on it, and you know, for many of us, it is a it is a physical place that we touched. But I think bigger than that is I think the back forty is it's an idea. I think it's a way forward, and I think that's our challenge now, is to let's take this place that only a small percentage of us will whoever touch, and make that the place that it people can, you know, make it their place. And maybe this you know, this is a property somewhere on the other side of the country. So I think I think it's that the backboard is an idea and we're looking forward to really making people feel like it's in their own backyard. Yeah, I want to unpackage a bunch of stuff you said there, but but I want to take a winding path to get to that point. Uh, real quick, Hank, would you add anything as far as your perspective on how you're how you're feeling about this. We'll get into all the details of what it's gonna look like, but I'm just kind of curious where your heads at. Hey, after one, it's unfair that I have to follow that. You know, Nick, Nick summed it up right there very beautifully. And and now, I mean, you know, from our earliest conversations about this, it was a dream, um, and as now as as a reality, UM, it's it's an absolute honor and and we are super appreciative of the gift and the opportunity that comes along with it. Um. You know, when we started down the path of filled the fok and athens in and started to get a little traction you know, uh, meat eater, you know, food focused kind of recruitment. I mean it was it was our pie in the sky, um partner. And so so really from both sides, it's uh, it's it's something that seemed like a dream and now it's a reality, and and we're really appreciative of the opportunity. Well right back at you guys, I know. Um, it's it's a two way thing. So while we're gifting you guys the property, uh, you guys are gifting us a sense of, um comfort in knowing that this it's kind of like I'm giving you my baby in a certain sense. And just the sense of trust and comfort I have knowing that my baby is in the right hands and that the future is is bright. Um that's a huge gift to me and to meet either. So for that, I thank you guys as well. Um so, so what I want to get into here soon is is talking about some of your specific you know, plans for the property, plans for events, plans for how you know, we together and you guys can can use this back forward it to be more than just a physical place, but also this idea of a place and this inspiration to others. But but first things first, we actually got to see the farm. You got to see the farm in December. I invited to both of you to come join me at the very end of the year to to see the farm, to tour the farm, to hunt a couple of days if if we needed them, try to fill a couple of dough tags. Uh So, first impressions of the property first and foremost you you you've seen the videos. But then you actually got to get your feet on the ground. Uh, Nick, first take on the property. What do you think after having set foot there? Yeah? I mean that was introducing us to the baby. Um so, uh and just be sure you have you have full visitation rates whenever you want to it's. Uh. It was interesting because, as you said, we've seen the videos. We obviously had seen every episode of the Back forty and so there was a sense that when we first pulled up and stepped out there, it felt like you've been there before. And that just speaks to how well you all did with with producing the show. But you know, I'd say the one thing that kind of struck me um for the size of the property, uh, sixty three sixty four acres. Uh, it felt bigger than that. And so when we went on the initial tour. That's sometimes you have properties that are really big, but maybe they don't feel like there is bigger. They sort of hunt small, so to speak. I thought that it was I thought that it hunted big, that there was plenty of area we could have We could have fit two or three more people out there hunting that evening, and so I think that was my first impression. And I think another another thing that stood out quickly is that it's it's It reminded me that this is a piece of property that sits in the landscape with other pieces of property, and what people doing around you matters, and what influence the backboard he has had on some of the neighbors there, So I thought that was another thing that, uh that I came home with. Yeah, yeah, that's that's a that's a good point. It's an interesting point, and I and a hundred percent agree with you and that it does feel bigger than what you might imagine. And and that was even without you know, we didn't even touch half the farm with the swamp and all the cover there, we didn't we didn't see half the farm at all, and so you know, imagine what's going on in all that. So that that's what I've always loved about it is it is it. It's kind of compartmentalized in different regions. And I feel like with with further management those old fields, as they continue to be improved and changed, I just feel it expanding. It's gonna feel even bigger and bigger as those open spaces become more diverse and filled out in different ways. Um, I'm really intrigued to see what this place is going to look like, you know, a handful of years down the road. So I'm right there with you, Hank. What what did you think any any hot takes? Yeah, I mean, my my initial reaction showing up on the property um, you know was the terrain. And I don't think the you know, the drop down to the swamp or the rise backup really came across in in the back forty web series. UM, So that was most shocking to me. Um. It's a beautiful piece of property. And it honestly, just driving up there, um and staying locally and and and seeing the property, it was kind of confirmation and of that hunting culture that I've heard so much about and witnessed, um, you know through your content over the years. But um, you know, it kind of reaffirmed those beliefs. And then honestly, by the time we uh we stepped off the property, I think my biggest takeaway was that you were a proud papa and and rightfully so. And the property that I experienced was not the property that I've seen documented over the last couple of years. And I think that's a testament to the improvements and and and you know, um sweat equity and everything that you've put in to the property, along with all your guests and and everything like that. But um, I saw a real transformation, um, from what I've seen from day one two when we left the property. Yeah, I I felt I felt the same way after after the end of our trip, and and I guess let me give the cliff notes version of our hunt and then you guys can add some color. But you know, our our hope was we would spend two days, you know, touring the farm together and then hunting it, and that would give you guys an opportunity to get to know the place, understand you know what this landscape was that now you guys will be working with. And then also, you know, there's no better way to get to know something like this than actually sitting out there and observing it and hunting it. So we thought, hey, we know that there could be some more dough management out here, so let's utilize this time we're gonna spend as a way to also achieve a management task. So my dream was, man, if we could fill three dough tags, that would be a great way to end the season. And so that's what that's what we did. We went out there that first night, and uh, at first, I gotta, I gotta before I give any more detail, I gotta ask. We we determined who was going to hunt where that night by a very competitive game of rock paper scissors between Hank and Nick and Hank ultimately you. One My question for you, Nick is have you spent any time kind of armchair quarterback in your decisions? How you determined what to throw? And do you do you think you could have rethought your strategy as far as rock paper sayss to have won that or or did you just slide that anything carpet and forget about it? Um? You know, maybe I should have put more strategy into it. Um you know I didn't. Um the psychologist and me, I guess should have got into Hank's mind a little bit and thought about what you might want to throw, And so I will and nearly threw one out there, and uh, and I lost. I think I think it took us a couple of rounds, but um, it was a thorough beating and I took it, took it like a man. And uh, you know, I knew. I knew that just about anywhere on that property was going to be good. And I especially new Mark, when you said I'm gonna sit with you on the first hunt, Nick, I thought, well, wherever they're sending me doesn't suck, Because Mark, I'm ye know it all worked out. Um, you and I Nick, we went and sat in the I guess would be the northeast corner of the property, which was the same tower blind where my dad killed his buck earlier in the year, and a place that you know, I had always thought, you know, had potential. It's it's our corner tucks into a lot of really good habitat on the neighbors, and so I always envisioned if we could just improve on our side a little bit more, we would get some spillover effects from the already good stuff on all the neighbors there. And so that's what we've tried to start doing, um and only only just scratched the surface there, but by adding some of these Egyptian wheat screens, that started to break it up a little bit more. And by the switch grass plantings and pollinator plantings and some treatments we we did to get rid of some of the other weeds. We thickened up that whole corner of that field in a decent way and then added that expanded food plus, so we had more cover out there and a pretty are in good food plot, and uh, you know, that was certainly the ticket for us this season. In that corner we killed my Dad's buck, of course, and then you and I, uh, gosh, I mean when we're climbing into the blind, there were deer already moving in the timber adjacent to us as we were getting set up, right, I mean, it was instantly, Oh there's deer. And uh there was a brief break I guess for I don't know, maybe an hour or so after those deer disappeared, and then all of a sudden, here comes more. Um, how many dear do you think we saw, Nick, I mean, it was quite a few over over the course of the evening. Yeah, I gotta say it was one of those hunts where I never had time to think about that. It was. I think it was in the twenties. That night. It was cold, as you said. As we were into the into the stand, Um, we saw a deer moving. And really what it came down to, I was really confident we would see a lot of activity with that cold friend. It just came down to whether or not they would come into the field with food plot was or whether they go stay on the neighbors and go to a cut cornfield. And so um, I think the fact that they made the choice become our direction just speaks to what you just described in terms of the layout. Um, you don't. You have to be thoughtful about these things, and you clearly were. You don't. You can't just go out and throw us a food plot in the middle of somewhere and expected to play out. You have to think about how a scenario might play out like that. So I thought it was really cool to actually see it in action. Yeah, it was nice to see between that hunt and my dad's hunt, that this one specific location that I gave a little bit more thought than other places, you know, specifically thinking about where I've seen these deer coming in and out of the timber, and how I would hope they use the terrain, and then placing the tower blind on the most likely downwind side of this long, skinny food plot that I hoped would bring deer in but then move them along it. Um, it actually worked out that way both times that we, you know, spend time hunting it. And in our case, you know, Nick, what was it, I don't know, an hour and a half maybe after sitting down, this second group of deer came working our way. It came all the way out of the timber, and maybe there was five six seven does maybe that worked their way out into our brushy field and then straight to the food plot. Um, and you were able to line up on one. I don't know if she maybe do you remember how far she was? Sixty yards, seventy yards something like that. Yeah, I think it was something in that neighborhood. We had had the discussion in the blind just prior to that. We we wanted the deer to get out into the plot if we could presented a good shot opportunity. And you know, one one thing that I remember, and you'd asked me how many deer we thought we saw, I'm gonna say we thought we saw like at least ten deer. My memory a little fuzzy now because it's been a little while, but it was. It was no shortage of deer, and they were they were very edgy, obviously, these being in Michigan where we were with hunting pressure and whatnot. Uh. The lead though, actually the one I ended up taking, she was very aware of of that blind and um, you know, just she was not gonna just really nearly got walking out there and start feeding and the same thing with your deer, so um, you know, it's just it was it was. It was a lot of deer, and I thought too, uh, you know, we'll then we'll get into Hank's story too. But walking out, I remember the number of tracks that we saw a deer that none of us would have seen from where we were. That we're fresh tracks from that evening. So there were there were deer all over that place that night. Yeah, yeah, that's that's true. We even even I remember going to recover your deer, we saw more deer off in the distance in the other field running off. So yeah, they were. They were out and about that night, that's for sure. And you got a great shot on your dough that came out with that first group of five or six or whatever they went running back in. And then maybe over the course of the next half hour or so, we spotted these deer come back out of the timber. Either the same ones are different, I'm not sure which, but two deer eventually filtered out and came our direction, one of them being I think it was too one of them being a nice, big, mature dough And she finally stepped out and we were waiting for her to turn broadside. And as we're waiting for her to turn broadside, we hear a big gaboom from the next field over and Hay shot one, and then moments later our doll finally turned it. I got a crack and she went running off and toppled over. So that was two for two for us in our blind. Uh, Hank, what was what was the quick rundown of your night? Well, I guess we were in the honey hole. Um and uh, I think we ended up seeing five deer that evening. It was it's kind of slow for the you know, maybe first hour. And uh, actually we kind of missed took an earlier shot I guess from a neighboring property, thinking it might have been y'all, but um, you know, not being used to the straight wall cartridges and facing away from us and everything. When Nick later shot, we realized that that was not in fact y'all originally. And um and then a little bit later a dough and two fonds came from your direction, kind of surprised us, and um eventually presented a nice broadside shot just down in the food plot. Um, kind of where the honey hoole and uh and your woodline right there kind of bottleneck um and uh, and we ended up seeing two other deer other than those three. But um, you know, just a beautiful evening um in Michigan, and I'm lucky to harvest and nice stove. It was a great it was a great night. And uh, I'm gonna have to apologize in advance for this, but I'd be remiss if I didn't throw you under the bus real quick, Hank, and talk about the most the most explosive gutting incident I personally have ever witnessed. We're watching you gut your dear or watching you gut your deer, and you're doing a really great job, and you're being careful. And I think in the midst of you discussing this, we are talking about how you've had to teach so many new hunters, or you know, showcase to many new hunters, you know, through field of fork, how to do this process. And something along that line of conversation was going on. And as we're talking about like teaching people to gut, you slip the knife a little bit. It popped the stomach and it just exploded all up your arms mark in your jacket. I mean, I've never seen anything that bad. I mean, would you describe it differently? Hank, I think that's pretty close to reality. But I have replayed that moment in my mind, you know, the nine hour drive home or whatever. Um, try and you know, washing the jacket to try to figure out what happened. Um, that jacket will never go hunting ever again. It got de scented laundry detergent, and I don't think it will ever come out. But but no, you're absolutely right. You made some comment of all, you know, great clean gutting job, and next thing I know, there's just a I mean a quarter of an inch slit in that stomach. And I guess because of that small hole. I don't know if the top of the gut hook kind of punctured the stomach or what. Um, but yes, the small hole uh created a pressure behind it. And I have not experienced anything like that myself either. But if there's any ever a teaching moment, I want all these potential new hunters and aspiring hunters out there to know that you know you can even you know all of us will make mistakes, but you know you can get through it and the meat is still fine and you and still take it home and serve it. Yeah, maybe it's a teaching moment. But yes, it wasn't an adventure. And we we joked during we joked after that that I had plans of making the video that was going to come from this hunt. It was gonna be seven minutes of the hunt and then seven minutes of you dealing with that mess. I can I can now tell you, Hank, that we didn't do that to you. The video, the video is done and you're gutting incident is nowhere to be seen. So yeah, it's podcast exclusive exactly. So it was, it was right now, I want to rescue I want to rescue Hanker tad here because in full disclosure, we mark you and I. We got to arguere while there was still daylight, so we got to uh to do our work while we could still see. And in the meantime, Hanks was sitting there and gaining a little bit of I guess some some stomach ex ans and while we were waiting, and then we asked him to do it dark, so, um, you know, well, we'll give him to throw him a little bit of a life line there and say that his his conditions for having to deal with it were a little bit tougher there. You go. That's a man, Hank. That's that's true leadership right there. From Nick, You've got a good one. You've got a good one. Uh Man. It was it was a great It was a great hunt and a great visit. Um. I was really glad that you guys were able to make it down and have that kind of introduction to the place. Okay, you've you've seen the farm, and we are now passing this place onto you guys. And there's there's two different sides of what I'm envisioning happening there in the property. The first thing I'd like to hear about is how you guys are thinking about I don't know if you I don't think you guys know the specifics yet, but I'd love to learn more about how you plan to think about the management on the farm, Like how are what are you guys thinking about doing? How are you thinking about continuing any of the work that we started when it came to habitat management or deer management or anything like that. You know, are you guys going to practice quality deer management practices on the place or is it different because this is going to be um used for new hunter engagements. I've got a lot of questions just around all of that. UM, what either one of you guys want to share perspective on on what the farm looks like from that perspective, Sure, I'll take that. UM. You know your listeners aren't aware, but I know we've engaged you in some of this. But UM, you know, we want to obviously continue a lot of what you've done on the property. UM. You know, as a as a national you know, deer focused conservation organization, we teach people you know, how to hunt all the way to habitat management and herd management and all that kind of good stuff. So of course we want to continue, um, the improvement of the property, the management of the property that you have done, and and to do that, we're going to rely on a group of both kind of local and statewide volunteers um you know, national Deer Association members, um, who who have experience or interest um in kind of managing the property. UM. So we've kind of convened a small habitat committee as we're calling them, and plan to expand that, and of course they're looking for for new volunteers and anybody who has interest in helping both from the habitat and management side to uh, you know, mentoring new hunters and community engagement and all that. But UM, you know, we want a seamless transition of the management and just oversight of the property UM, and want to continue your legacy. And so we plan to be UM on the ground soon with an in person tour UM for those kind of hands on individuals UM and kind of bring them up to speed on where we stand. UM. You know, dreams that weren't realized. I mean, just as we've dealt with and you know it's the things that happened. UM. I know that some of your plans had to change because of certain situations, and and we want to get to projects that you might have not had time to do. But to maintain a property that's its beneficial for engaging the community and mentory new hunters, but also providing quality wildlife habitat UM even you know, a showcase for locals on what they can do with their properties. But all in all, we just want to carry on the ideals and and and things that you incorporated in the back forty in that project and make sure that we utilize the property the best we can UM for the future of wildlife and management and area but also for for new hunters and and deer hunting. Would you would you add anything to that, Nick, Yeah, I think Hank Hank did a great job there. I'll just say that it's interesting too because as an organization we are we've always been about conservation, no question. But I think what people have seen about us is that we are UM. They saw us as being a quality deer organization, meeting big deer, that type of thing, and so UM, I think that this property is a conservation property. It's one of the things that impressed me when I was first watching the show. You have bee hives there, you know, you're you're thinking about those types of things, pollinators, pre planning, and so we want to take this is this is also an opportunity for us to have people be acquainted with who we are as an organization. And because of the the type of following that you all get, UM and you know, not that we don't have a following either, but we think ears is different. We think it gets to the people that really need to see what we're all about. So we're also excited about it from that aspect um as well. On that front, you know what would um when you say that Nick, what what specifically is that you want these people to see about the National Deer Association, Is it? I mean, I can make some assumptions, some inferences, but if if I were to say, okay, Nick, well what is that exactly? Tell us right now? You know what is the message this? What is this message? Yeah? And I'm glad you asked that I have this kind of crazy vision and I may have told you about it in the past, but um, I have a vision that someday people will join our organization while having no intention to even shoot a deer. And so they'll join because they recognize the conservation value the deer bring, not not just as a hundred species, but that's a big part of it. So for example, when seven out of ten people that hunt hunt deep and and the next animals not not even close, not even half that. Um, that's a huge, huge piece of the pie. When it comes to conservation of all wildlife species. The amount of money that goes to state wildlife agencies from sale of hunting licenses, from purchasing equipment to go hunt deer, um, that's a that's a huge piece and deer critical to that and so we need healthy deer. We need a healthy deer hunting heritage, and we need conservation, and that's what we're about. We want to achieve broad conservation conservation of all species through the management of deer. And it's not this is this is not like maybe it was when I was a kid, where you could just kind of take deer for granted. They were everywhere. Not to say that deer still aren't everywhere, but that's threatened by other things. Now. They're threatened by loss of habitats. They're threatened by things like chronic wasting disease, they're threatened by threatened by changing weather patterns. Frankly um, So there's just a lot out there, and deer need a steward, they need a spokesperson. So this is an opportunity to tell people, to tell everybody hun or not, de are pretty guarding important and they're not just something that you maybe you know, hit with your buick, uh you know that are seed eating your flower gardens. They're important and I think we have a responsibility to tell people that and get them behind Dear. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I couldn't agree more so. So I'm excited to hear Hank and and we've already talked about some of these things, and I've had some conversations with the committee, But I'm excited about the ideas you guys have around trying to kind of take our initial set of plans and kind of give them jet fuel and get out there and do the things that I wish we could have but never could have. Um And and I'm sure you guys are gonna have some other ideas to bringing on the experts that you have within your teams and within your volunteer base. So well, that gets me really excited. I mean, I know that what you're telling us, Nick is something that ever one at media was really excited about, which is the fact that you guys would be looking at this, you know, as a larger conservation initiative. This This isn't gonna be like an exclusive property for a couple of people, shoot big Bucks. That's not what's happening in the back Ford. It this is going to be a place that is representative and it is illustrative of what you can do on a property to conserve wildlife and plant life, and and then also using as an educational resource to teach other people how to think about those things in their own place, or how to hunt or how to improve a piece of property. Are all those different things the things that we wanted to do um and and started to do. It's it's exciting to hear that you're going to continue with those same um ideas and missions going forward and then putting your own spin and expertise behind it. Um. Hey, is there anything you can share as far as I don't know any of the conversations you've had with volunteers or the committees around some of the specific projects that folks are excited about taking on or thinking about taking on. I just I gotta believe that people are curious, like, hey, are they gonna plant more trees? Are they gonna do more food? Plus has there been any I know decisions haven't been made, probably, but I'm just curious if there's any kind of teaser you can provide us all as far as what might year three in the back forward it look like when it comes to sending Josh further Hilliard out there to get to work. Oh man, uh, as you know, our guys are hungry and and they're chomping at the bit. Um. I think expanding the trees plantings on the property as a given. UM. Of course we're we're working on the other things like a conservation ease meant on the property, UM, expanding food plots, UM, doing a little bit more UM to turn the fields over to a more native plant life. UM. You know, this guy's the limit and and they're really excited. UM. Our next step is really getting them on the property and giving them the real view. We've done a zoom tour UM, but nothing will you know, take the place of them seeing the property as we got to. UM. But you know, we we hope to continue and and do more. And I think it will turn into three and then four and year five and UM, gosh only knows. But we've got some real talent on the committee and some and some people with a lot of energy and an expertise. So UM, I have no doubt in my mind that the management of both habitat and wildlife on the property is is looking good. UM. And of course, as Nick said earlier, we we look forward to you continuing to check up on us. You've got that that free pass anytime you won't and we look forward to keeping you posted on you know, the continued work on the property. Yeah, I'm excited about that too. And here's a question, you know, old school qut um kind of ideas around making harvest decisions on deer. There was always some people that would say, well, you've got to stick to your management goals. If we're if we're targeting you know, three or four year old bucks, that's what everyone has to do. Um. And so there's some people that talk like that, and then there's other people that say, you know, everyone has, you know, have your own goal, but when it comes to new hunters or kids, you should really think about, you know, giving them a different entry point, you know, to have more opportunity. UM. I'm sure there's people who heard about us giving the property to the formerly known as the Quality Deer Management Association and thought, ma'am, what does that mean for all these new hunters that suppose we're going out there to have to wait you have to wait for a big buck to come out to shoot? Or alternatively, are they going to shoot every year they see and fifty are gonna get killed out there next year? I've already heard that people asking like, what does this mean for the deer herd? Um? Could other one of you guys, you know, clear the air on that or maybe provide some color as to any thoughts you've had around that. I'll take a quick stab and then Hank may want to fill in. So Um, just kind of smiling as I hear you talk, because I can I can see these are here are these questions coming in and so um, you know, every every property has its own unique opportunity and also should have its own very unique management goals. I think our goal there is again it's it's it is. This is a it's a vision. Okay, it's a it's a it's a vision, and we want to educate in terms of hunters on the property. I think that we want to educate people about things like age structure and the importance of having a balanced age and sex structure in your herd. But we also have to recognize that we're working on a pretty small property in the grand scheme of things, and so that means we have limitations. You shot two bucks there, mark that I think are pretty indicative of what is possible there um, just with patients. And so I think that if if we can give our participants that hunt their opportunities at they can they can shoot a yearling buck if that satisfies them. But also to potentially have an opportunity at something a little older. It would be nice to tell them, hey, just so you know, here's what we know about the property based on observance and trail camera pictures and whatnot. But it's your decision. And so to me, the real goal there is the conservation message and to improve a property and have happy, healthy deer. And if we can do that and also do things like keep a good age structure and be able to have two or three deer running around like the ones you've taught the last couple of years, I look at that as winning. I think that's a great experience for people, and I think that should be our goal. That's awesome, Hank, Would you add anything? Sure? Um? Yes, I mean a lot of people have opinions of what we've we've you know, what we've taught or what we've championed over the years, and I think a lot of it is is a misrepresentation or just um a little off you know. Uh, you know, cut you may always said that if you protect most of your yearly and bucks, you know you're doing a good thing. And and for first time hunters, we have never set any guidelines ourselves we have obviously, you know, hosted events on properties where we went with guidelines of that property. But as as for us, I mean, um any legal dear. You know, I've set with plenty of these filled to four hunters over the years. And and it's if if you'd like to put that deer in your freezer, it's that's you. That's your decision, you know, um, and all power to them. You know. Um, I'm a meat hunter. UM, I love to shoot those and you know, um, you know that's that's kind of my motivation as a hunter per se. But um, you know, this kind of brings me back to you know, our point where you know, how many people can you hunt on the Back forty And and correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of your intentions with the Back forty project were to show what someone could do with a you know, a fairly average or or a property that is excess sable, too many and available in many parts of this country. And so for for our success using the property for Filled the Fork per se, it will be all utilizing the property to the best of its potential, but inspiring the network of back forties both locally around the Back forty and and a patchwork throughout the country because we need, you know, hunters and and managers of the back forties across the country to understand that they can have an impact on the future of honey. Not only can they manage their property and the animals that you know you were there, but they can they can be very influential locally to create community around people who are interested in learning to hunt or you know, to mentor new hunters. And so it's really from our point of view, we want to take this property and take kind of your same intention, but o others that you can do this too, and and so even at a local level, the success around the Back forty in Michigan will be the community and the patchwork even locally that we can create around it, inspire others to join us, to create more hunters and create a community of of food focused adult hunters, you know, a diverse group of people who who share a passion for for hunting and wild foods and and that kind of stuff, and and also are known kind of as if you want to learn to hunt, you need to get in touch with these people. And really that's that's our intention, and that's the dream now is to create that around this opportunity. Yeah, I think that's I think that's spot on, and it makes it makes a lot of sense now for people who maybe aren't as familiar with Field to Fork. Um. It's something that we've talked about previously on this podcast. We've talked about it in detail on the Mediator podcast. But I want to just be sure, just in case people are new they're not aware of what this program is. Can you give me the cliff notes on what the Field to Fork program is that you guys run. Um, just a quick overview of of what this thing is we're talking about, and then we can kind of we can then dive into how that is going to play out on the back for you. Awesome, Yeah, Phil, The fork is is a modern food focused adult learn to hunt program that um we kind of created. The name started as a workshop in Kentucky in the you know, mid two thousands, and with permission and everything, we took their name and went to the Farmers Market in Athens, Georgia, just to kind of take the data and and kind of the cultural changes we're seeing in the United States with the advent of farmers markets and organic grocery stores and all that you know, the metrics and and the changing you know values in this country bode very well for the future of hunting. People care about where their food comes from. Um, you know, local sustainable people seem to be um, you know, yearning for a deeper connection with nature and especially after the last year self reliance. But we wanted to create a program that took adults, you know, your most efficient audience, and tried to create a sustainable program that created lasting hunters. And you know, we we made our own mistakes over the early years, but after and seventeen, we kind of created a program that we thought worked, pairing uh, local first time hunters with local hunters who were sharing their stands and access UM and really creating community around it, you know, having organized education and shared meals and and and range time and and really it was it was simply about building a local community of hunters and and and new hunters who who kind of shared all this infectious passion and and you know, memory of what it was like for them to get their first year. But um, you know, we started with replications. We had eight programs. By we had twenty six programs in seventeen states. We've you know, I truly believe that the most sustainable and the most lasting programs will be these community based programs that I mentioned, where it's an extended period of you know, learning to hunt with local new hunters and local mentors and and Sherry Mills and camaraderie. It's about creating social support and and building that confidence of these new hunters and giving them the avenues and resources that they need to to you know, find their own path to becoming and self identifying as a hunter. And so you know, we've we've focused on these community kind of programs in many states, but we've also tried destination programs where we had an opportunity at a private property or or something else a public land where we could rent cabins, where we just brought people in for four day events and kind of condensed everything into one. We've gotten into industry filled to forks where we've hosted programs for Ruger and six Hour, most recently Daniel Defense and and hoping to host one for Vortex this year. UM. But we realized quickly when you know, even my staff was seeing what we were doing in Athens, they were interested in signing up. And so we've we hosted one for our staff and and so that's kind of what we're inspiring industry to do. UM. We've partnered with the FEDS and unfilled the forks on national Wildlife refugees, most recently in Virginia at the Aqua Columbay National Wildlife Refuge But UM, you know, we're just trying to prove that that this can happen anywhere, that you can get a group of people together that are fairly knowledgeable about hunting and willing to share their knowledge, UM hopefully share some of their resources and their access. But UM, you know, we need a lot more people mentoring new hunters UM, and we need to diversify hunting and it's a fun way to do it. UM. You know you mentioned they can go to Deer Association dot com slash FtF filled the Fork UM, and you can see a video we did in or even a PBS episode of Reconnecting Roots from last year with Steve and right Callahan and us UM, as well as the previous podcast that myself and Charles were with you. But UM, of course kind of changed things a little bit. We had to cancel programs that we couldn't you know, safely socially distanced or adapt but it created its own opportunities and were really fleshed out kind of the remote learning and realizing that we can we can teach people about deer hunting UM Hunter Education. We have an online deer hunting one on one course that UM with Today's Hunter or Calcumy that's online UM. And we were able to utilize these online resources to kind of train our hunters at home and impair them with hunters and get them out UM. So it kind of proved even more avenues and opportunities to where we we of course want to focus on organized events, but we can also you know, really fulfill a need for individuals, you know, anywhere where we might not have organized programs to to help them build the confidence and find the avenues too, to find their way of field and hopefully become lasting hunters. I love the program and excited to see it continue to grow. And I've always thought that the trick has been doing what you guys are talking about doing, which is figuring out how to scale this thing and how to how to get it so that there's more and more and more people inspired to to help volunteer and launch their own field of fork events all across the country. That seems to be the that's the there's the rub is how do you get enough people and then get them the right tools to do these things themselves in partnership with you guys or whatever. Um. So I'm just kind of curious. And I don't know if this is a question for you, Hank, or if it's Nick or both of you. I'm just curious, Um, what's the future look like? Where do you see this in the next year or two? What's what's the next step for the field of fork program? Because I know what you've established, We've we've covered this in detail and why it seems to be such a h an idea with so much potential that you guys have already seen such potential. But what's what is next? Where? How do you take that next step? Like I'll take less wing and intern go ahead about I was gonna turn it over to you real quick here. I just I was gonna say that, um, scale is important, and that's why I said that the back forty is is an idea and it's an idea we need to share. And part of taking it to scale is being able to show a lot of people what it is, but then being able to help them do it on their own. There's no there's no future of the National Beer Association. We're gonna hold five hundred field before events across the country. It's just not realistic. And we've talked about that internally. But I'll go ahead and let Hank take it from here. Now. Nick's absolutely right. I mean, um, I hope gets back to you know, replication mode, and and you know, any of our branches, other groups, Um, you know, we were happy to help people learn from what we've done, share our successes, share our failures, and hope that they can build similar programs and opportunities. Um, you know, and every every opportunity is unique. So that's that's the you know, the biggest thing I can kind of convey to people. But UM, you know, we all have to understand as organizations, as groups of people are even as individuals. You know, if if we take the time to do this, which you know, I feel like it's our duty, we can we can make strides and we have you know, you know, as bad as the pandemic is, we saw an increase in hunting participation last year. People had more time to get outside and UM. You know, we want to make sure that you know they can continue that retention is a big thing. But UM poll and all we want to we we've built resources. There's also resources that we created with a t A that are like checklists, full full curriculum and guides to replicating field to fork. We hope to create new content and and update and continue to build new resources. You know, if people are interested and signing up for a field to fork. We have been overwhelmed by people wanting to to sign up for a field to fork. Many things to meet either and you but also some some press and and we're building ways to connect them with local mentors. But you know, for a new hunter who's interested, UM, we're building out Dear Association dot com slash new Hunter in a way that they can they can let us know where they are and what they're interested in. But at the same time we will provide you know, our free resources as well as paid resources and and other avenues that we think they can UM hopefully find opportunity of field whether with us or without UM. But we want to just continue to grow filled the fork, grow the content UM and and and make it more applicable and approachable to war people. And and the biggest thing is bringing on a massive partners. We're working with a diver you know, canvas of partners in different states. We've never shied away from helping even states where we traditionally didn't operate in. We've we've held filled the forks in Alaska. We've we've helped you know, California are three create programs, many estate agencies. But we're not trying to um, you know, keep this internal. We just hope that we can share what we've learned um you know, inspire others, empower others. And obviously, I think if anything, we we've showed that there's an there's an opportunity here that there are millions of new hunters and diverse new hunters that might not be focused on the same things that that we grew up learning to be focused on or whatever. But through that diversification of hunters and and UM and just that changing culture, there's an opportunity here to have one heck of an awesome community. And we're seeing it and and honestly, it's it's much too um to what you guys are doing a meat eat and at Wired to Hunt, I mean you've helped to create this entire new contingent of hunters and and spark interests in these new groups. And and I guess that's the biggest takeaway and why we want to help all these other groups do this is you know, there's there's such a diverse opportunity here and and like we mentioned with you know, I've spoken with Ford at First Light for years about the opportunities of Filled to Fork and even the opportunity within First Light to mentor their own hunters, and they're doing that, and Steve and the honest and you guys, I mean even you this year on the back four to you have champion mentoring new hunters, and you have found that that those new hunters exist in your own you know, businesses or or companies. And and so that's the thing is why would we hold hold keys to this when we really need we need First Light and we need meet either and we need every one of these groups to continue to to both look internally and look externally on ways that they can get new hunters a field and create new hunters um And that's really the opportunity. I love it if if someone's here in this right now, and I don't ask you to repeat this at the end of our conversation too, But while we're on the specific topic, if someone's here in this right now and thinks to themselves, yeah, I need to try to make something like this happened in my community or at my company or in my branch or whatever it is. UM, can you repeat that resource or that landing page where people can go to get your toolkit and and whatever it is they need to connect with you to either set up one of these events through through you guys, or to set up their own. Sure, UM. You know, for any new hunters, it's Dear Association dot com slash New Hunter, and that's the quickest way to give us your information, UM, where you can be connected with local resources, local events, that kind of stuff. For for groups or mentors, we were building out a mentor landing page much in the same way as the new Hunter page, but as of right now, UM is not up. If they want to email me at Hank at Deer Association dot com or go to the Field to Fork website again, that's Deer Association dot Com slash FtF UM. My email is all over that website. You can find all the information all the summaries of almost everything we've done in Field to Fork, from our own writings to you know, um covering the podcast we've done with you and that kind of stuff in videos so we've produced or been on. So um, there's kind of your three resources right there. Perfect. Okay, So let's let's talk about the next step, which is we kind of alluded to some things here, but let's talk specifics or at least as as much specificity as you guys have been able to nail down yourselves, but specifically, what do you think Field the Fork looks on looks like on the back forty this year? Have you guys talked about this, like how many hunters you think you'll be able to have out there this year or how many different events you might be able to have out there this year? Has that been something you guys have been able to broach yet or still in the planning phases? Sure, Um, it is definitely in the planning phases. But but we're actively working on it. You know, it's our intention to host kind of that community approach. And I don't want to I don't want to rehash it too many times if people got it the first time, but you know, it's the success will come down to us utilizing the four or five hunters we can hunt there, but you know, getting a group of local people with access to property or knowledge of public lands to take it. So really, this guy's the limit. Um. You know, many times when we've started, you know, a first year of filled the fork, you know, tend to twelve people is a nice place to start. I think our opportunity here is larger, um. And we have obviously done it in the past where we have started larger. But my intention and really it will come down to the amount of mentors and properties that we can recruit locally. Um. But I hope to have at least three dozen new hunters that are a part of a local community pasted program around the back forty and and and possibly trainings and classroom opportunities will happen right there on the back forty But um, you know that number could be a lot higher. It just really depends on how many current hunters and you know, a half hour or an hour drive will be willing to dedicate um a couple of CITs of their dear season this year, um, you know, and offer a little bit of their knowledge and and and confidence built into a new hunter. So if you are sing and you live somewhere in southern Michigan or central Michigan, and you would like to volunteer either as a mentor for one of these programs or or you know, offer up your property for someone to hunt as part of one of these groups for a couple of days. Uh. If if that's you listening, listen up to this next thing, because Hank, I'd like you to tell those people if specifically somebody wants to help with this specific back forty events that you're going to be planning out for this year, who should they? Should they reach out to you directly? When should they do that? How should they do that? Absolutely? Please email me. Um, you know we have Josh Hilliard in the state of Michigan. I mean, obviously if they know Josh, contact him. But um, I'm happy to get those emails. We would be so appreciative to anybody, whether you're familiar with the National Deer Association or not, whether you're a you're a member of another group, or or just an individual out there. Um. You know, we're a firm believer in cooperative approach. We can do more with more people and bringing groups together, um, and so absolutely please reach out to us and feel free to email me at Hank and Deer Association dot com. Great now, guys, everyone listening, this this is the part where you really I step up because you know, like like Hank mentioned, the back forty, it's it's it's someone's excited. Uh if we got to sign up already, all right, he's in. Um. What I was gonna say is that the back forty is it's only sixty acres. So, like you said, there's there's only so many people that can be on there at any given moment in time. But if you have a handful of other properties in the general area, you can have a bunch of hunters coming for a weekend event and have five of them or four of them on the back forty and four of them on another property and four of them on another property. And then maybe the next day you cycle out and other people get to see the back forty, or maybe you do a classroom approach like you talked about. But you need this volunteer base. You need the other nearby properties to build something like this out. And so I think that the wire dunt listeners, this is a great opportunity to step up and be a part of this. You you've seen us doing the back forty thing, um, you've heard me talk about it. Now I personally am asking you to be a part of it. This is your opportunity to be a part of this thing, uh, to to do something that's really good and useful and meaningful for the future of deer and deer hunting, helping new people get to know this thing that we all know is so special dear deer hunting wild places. Let's share that. And this is a neat way to do it. And it's something that I'm excited to help continue telling the story around. We are going to be continuing to partner with you guys at the National Deer Association around the Back forty project. We're launching something we're calling the Back forty two FOK Project, which is basically combining Back forty with Field of fork um and a really maybe not terribly creative way. We just smashed the two awards together. But you know what what we want to do is continue to support these educational efforts that you guys are gonna be leading, support these mentorship programs. I personally am going to be out there and participating in some of this mentorship stuff. Um, We're still hashing out some of the details, but I know that Hank, you guys and the team are are working to select a new hunter who I will mentor throughout different parts of the season. I'm gonna get out there for some mentorship educational events in the summer with this person or person's I'm gonna do another mentored hunt with someone on the property this fall, um in collaboration with you guys. So we immediated and I personally am really excited to keep this momentum going. And uh I'll drop it in here again. I already mentioned it at the top of the episode, but I'll stay at warmer time. Uh out. We're so excited about this that we've round up all sorts of our partners to put together a very uh compelling giveaway to just kind of celebrate, like, Hey, this is a this is a great thing that we're starting here with the National Deer Association. So if you go to the meat eater dot com slash fork, you can enter this giveaway. I gotta thank our friends over can and they did make this possible by giving us the resources to put all those things together, we're gonna be giving away a whole first leg gear kit, a weather be rifle, UH worth of Federal Premium ammal. You can't get AMMO anywhere these days. That's a big thing. UH, a bench made meatcraft or knife and on X Elite lifetime membership f h F by No Harness Vortex buyos UH. And then that's just for the grand prize winner. Then there's two more runner up winners, and each one of those three winners gets to nominate a new hunter that they know of in their life or someone who's in trusted in getting involved in hunting. You nominate someone and we are going to gift to that person a new hunter gift package that includes UH an Onyx membership, a new bench made knife, knife sharpener, some some other educational resources, some cool stuff like that. So so we're doing that because we're we're excited about this. This makes a lot of sense. It's a great way to keep this thing moving forward in a positive direction, and you guys are the right partners to help us do that. So I'm just excited to see where this goes. I'm excited this year to keep working on the farm and keep bringing new people out in showcasing what's possible and introducing people into this community, in this family we have around hunting, because it's it's the best thing that's happened in my life is getting to know other hunters and becoming a hunter myself and being immersed in the wild and wild places and learn about deer and chasing deer and being outside like that stuff made me who I am. And I'm so so fortunate that I had a family that introduced me to that. There's a lot of people out there that didn't have that luxury. So I just personally feel so strongly that I was gifted that I gotta I've got a gifted onto somebody else. And so this is, uh, this is a way that we can all kind of do that in our own way. And uh, Hank and Nick, I'm just I'm excited that that you're helping us do that. Thank you. It's exciting, man, you know, I guess I guess the other bottom line is it's a heck of a lot of fun. So you know, join us. It's fun. It may be the most rewarding thing you do as a deer hunter, but I guarantee you it's a lot of fun. Yeah, very true, Very true. So we've covered our hunt on the Back forty. We've covered ah the property management kind of vision moving forward. We've talked about some of the specific ideas you guys are going to be working towards on improving the play. We've talked about you know, what field the fork is gonna look like on the farm in these coming years. Is there any anything else Nike or Hank that you guys want to touch on to leave folks with to reiterate, Um, what do we miss when it comes to the Back forty in its future? Yeah? I don't. I don't know that we've missed anything. We've covered a lot here. Um. I just want to say from our perspective, we certainly appreciated the partnership, and that's really what this is. I mean, there's the initial partnership that that we have with the Deer Association and Meat Eater and Back forty, but the partnership certainly extends beyond that. You mentioned the number of sponsors that are going to help put off what is sounds like an outstanding giveaway. I wish I was eligible, you know, And and it takes those people too. Let's not forget those sponsors that are behind us, and in the volunteers that Hank mentioned earlier UM that are going to help bring the back forty continue to bring the back toward you along. Uh. And then there are these people in these companies locally all across the country that do that. So I think it's it's incumbent upon all of us to keep the fire burning. I think I heard in one of your recent shows, Mark where you talked about that the responsibility of of doing more. We have that responsibility now, and I think that's what this is all about. So it's just sort of a rallying call to say, let's all do more, even if it's just one more thing, and we'll all be better off for it. Yeah, absolutely true. All right, guys, Well, I guess I want to give you one more chance. I know you just did it, but I just want to make sure everyone hears any final action item or final u r L as. We want to make sure everyone has got written down top of mind, Hanked, you want to recite those just one last time before we sign off. Absolutely again, anybody willing to take a new hunter of field UM, whether they have property or need access or any new hunter who's interested in signing up UM for the new Hunters, It's Dear Association dot com slash New Hunter. For information on field before um, it's Dear Association dot com slash f t F. And to contact me for any of it, it's Hank at Dear Association dot com. Perfect all right, Well, thank you for that, Hank, Thank you Nick for everything for your leadership on this, and and thank you both for for taking on this project and and taking it to it's it's next chapter. We're we, like I mentioned the top, all of us here made it. Are are thrilled uh to have such a great set of new parents for our baby. And uh I'm looking forward to watching from both afar and from right up close on the ground again over the coming year and years as we uh we see where we can take this thing. So thanks a lot, thank you to you. All right, and that's a wrap. I don't want to talk too much right now, because I want you to remember those links that Hank just told you, So go on over get the information you need, please volunteer if you can. And finally, one more link, if you want to sign up for that giveaway I mentioned at the top, go to the meat Eater dot com, slash Fork, and with that thanks all for listening. I appreciate you, and until next time, stay wired to hunt.

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