00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the wire to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three fifty six and todayan's show. I'm joined by my friend and d i y Bow hunting Extraordinaire Andy May, to answer a whole bunch of your dear hunting questions. All right, welcome to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X. Today, we have got a great I think a great episode in store for you because two things. Number One, we're gonna be tackling listener questions and these are always some of my favorite episodes because we get to discuss exactly what you the listener want to discuss, specific questions, challenges, issues that you're dealing with. So in my mind, that's always a good thing. Number Two, I think this is gonna be a really good one because my good buddy and one of the best deer hunters I know, Mr Andy May, is joining me to help us do that. So Andy, thanks for making the time to do this. Okay, no problem, man, this is this is fun. I haven't done one like this, so I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, and I feel like you've been on I guess, I guess I'm not a hundred percent sure on this. I'm I'm assuming that you've been on extended leave because schools and everything have just been shut down. So have you had to do any e work like work from home stuff or are you are you out completely? Nope, We've We've actually been working remotely with our our families. I work with children with special needs, so we've been doing contacting all of our families and basically seeing how they want the therapy provided. Um. Some families want, you know, like video therapy. Some Uh, families were just emailing activities that they can do at home that we typically would do during therapy. UM. Some families are choosing not to participate at all. UM. So I have a you know, a caseload of students are so um that I have to keep in touch with weekly, but not everybody is participating so UM. And then uh quite a few zoom meetings and stuff. So it's it's definitely been a reduced workload, but we're definitely still working. And then I have a second job. Um that one has all been has continued as well, all through just telehealth, so like phone phone monitoring and stuff. That's cool. I was gonna I was gonna say, Um, if you had just been able to spend the last two months doing nothing but scouting, I would just be very jealous and know that you are. You already out hunt us most years, but if you had two full months off with nothing but scouting to do, uh, then we'd all be in real trouble, and animal would just be tearing it. Glad they're still making you do a little work, and yeah they are. I have. It's been. I mean, I'm ready. Obviously this has been a bad situation for a lot of people, but I've been trying to make the most of it being outside and been doing you know, a lot of turkey hunting, a lot of deer scouting, and uh a lot of fishing, which is something that something I really love to do. But over the past you know, ten fifteen years, is kind of taking a back seat to to my hunting and family times, so I don't get out as much. But I've been out quite a bit fishing, and so it's it's been. It's been nice. Hidden the wally, yeah, walle I Um, I hit the Detroit River a few times. We got you know, a couple of limits down there. Um, and then I was up north this past weekend and did some bass fishing. We caught over eighty bass over the weekend, and uh some pike and it was just it was a good time. Were they a the bess off the beds already or still spawning? They were actually somewhere on the beds depending on the lake. The shallower lakes they were on the beds um and then the cooler water lakes, so they were kind of like pre spawned. So they were like really really aggressive in the shallows feeding. That is fun. Yeah, it was cool. Yeah, the Smalley's were just tearing it up. So oh man, I'm itching to just get out and do any of that kind of stuff. I've been doing some turkey hunting, a bunch of habitat work over the back forty. That's that's kind of been consuming my life this spring. But I'm about to head out west to Idaho tomorrow when we record this. It'll be tomorrow when this actually airs, I'll be out there. But I'm itching to get out there and do some fly fishing. So that's uh, that's my next thing I'm looking forward to. But but right now, Andy, we gotta stay focused. We gotta talk deer because kind of crazy. But we're already three months out from opening day for a lot of those early season states, so it's game time here before we know it. And I actually talked last night with a mutual friend of ours, acquaintance friend, Joe rent Mester, and coming out of that conversation, I just had like a new like my excitement level got turned up a couple of notches. My brain is shifting more and more to getting pumped for the summer velvet time period and all that stuff. So it's a good time for us to be talking because I'm I'm getting amped, umho with something else, isn't he He's good he Uh, I'll tell you what I mean. A lot of people know who he is, but at that age to have that, to be that driven and have the knowledge and the skill that he has, it's just I'm just so impressed by that guy. Um we become buddies and talk regularly. But yeah, he's he's he's just a great hunter. Yeah, it was a fun conversation. You came up Actually in the conversation we talked. We talked some ship, so you better not. You better not listening to that one. But okay, kid a kid um. But yeah, man, today, what I thought we could do is tackle listener questions. We I post a couple of things online and just had hundreds of questions probably come in and we can't hit them all, but I'm hoping we can hit as many as possible. I know that we could probably spend two hours discussing just five of these questions if we wanted. There's enough to talk about there. But what do you think about as much as we can kind of going rapid fire through them, so we can just cover as many different things as possible. Yeah, that sounds perfect. If I get a little long winded, just shut me down. Yeah, I'm I'm willing to jump in there and tell you to shut the hell up. But I think there'll be some where we can dive in deeper. Like I think we'll kind of feel it out, but when there's one that we can get through it quick and keep going, we'll do it. Um. So I don't know if you're game, I think we should uh start the timer and just take off. Let's do it all right, let me get my and my notes here. I probably should have sent you some of these questions so you could choose to the questions. So I'm the only one in control. Sorry. UH. First question is going to come here from Travis. Travis asks what are the most important summer scouting tactics for early bow season hunting? Uh. I will give a very quick answer, and I'll let you expand on Andy. I would say when it comes to summer scouting, the things that I care the most about would be inventorying whatever bucks are in the general area through trail cameras and then number two, getting some glass against some long range scouting. And that's important midsummer and late summer, just to see, okay, what kind of quality bucks are in the area if you're if you're just learning a new spot, or if you just want to note did this buck make it through to the next year. But then in that week or a few days leading up to opening day, UM, that's when you could start glassing to try to actually learn something you could hunt on opening night. If you've got one of those early seasons that open September one or something, watching those last few days of August can really help. UM. So that's that's a high level kick on on my part. Andy thoughts, Yeah, I completely agree. Um, the inventory thing is is good. I do a fair amount of summer scouting, like you know, velvet type stuff, but I don't I honestly don't get super h super serious with it right until um, you know, that last week week and a half before the season starts. So if you're in a state that opens early, like let's just say Kentucky, UM, where I like to hunt early season, sometimes you're at a major advantage because um, the deer still in velvet, still batstrew it up really well and be on a very routine UM pattern that you can capitalize in. So if the past few kills I've had in Kentucky early season have been you know, observing um either fresh sign. One was just fresh sign in a in a UM like kind of like a secluded backfield, um, and then the other one was actually glassing and seeing you know, a shooter do something and then setting up and capitalizing that way. So those that last week or two right before the season starts, that's when I really turn it up, because what I what I see um here in Michigan, Um, if you got a little bit later opener like October one. Um, you could see, you know, these bachelor groups all summer in July and August, and then somewhere usually somewhere around that beginning September, mid September, they'll start shifting around. It's maybe that buck you're after is is going to hang in the area. But a lot of them disappear and they just go to you know, they differed over to their fall ranges. So I don't I try not to get too hung up. I've been It's happened to me so many times where I've last a really big buck and I'm so excited, and I'm like, I'm gonna live on this deer all summer and I'm gonna know exactly what he's doing, and just to have him disappear mid September and I'm just you know, I had all my scouting and all my efforts for that one, dear, and he's just nowhere to be found. I have no no clue. So if you could still those last week or two, if you turn it up a notch with the long distance scouting and cameras, that's your best bet. If you're if you're shooting for an early season killed yeah, I gotta tell you, and I know you've experienced this some as well. Those really early season hunts as September hunts are some of my absolute favorite all year. Like I just love that observed from a long range scout. Scout scouts see and then make a move off that. I love that style, like those kinds of hunts. That's that's a lot of fun about That's one of my favorites. Well, all right, next question, Brent, He asks, do you guys organize your ONEX way points in any particular fashion to separate hot sign from this year m versus things from previous years? So he says, for example, maybe this year's way points are orange, but last year's are white, anything like that. Do you do any kind of organization with your map way points or or even any other data you keep from here to year. Yeah, I do. I don't. I don't do exactly what he said, but you know, I definitely don't just use the the generic way point icon like I'll do access um, you know, routes, I'll have marked um. If it's like a water source, I use the actual symbol, but i'll color code. So usually my accesses are white um. Betting areas are yellow, uh water sources. I'll usually do blue um that sort of thing. But UM, I never leave um the title of the way point, just as like waypoint the date and time, because I'll I have so many across so many states now that I'll forget what they were. Some of them are just ones that I plopped down because I think they look good and I want to check them out. And then you know, a year or two go by and I look at those, I'm like, what what what was it about this spot? You know, did I get a piece of advice from somebody or did I observe something? So I when I when I make a waypoint, UM, I will actually title it what what I'm marking it for. So maybe check this out. This looks like a good betting area, you know, scout this ask permission here? Um, you know, the Big the Big nine UM traveled through here on this date in the morning. So I'll organize it in that way. But the color codes that I have have to do more with like the feature um that I'm marking. But that's that's that's essentially what I do. Yeah, that's pretty similar to what I do. I've not gone so far as to color code, and I use some icons, but lots of times I just put the generic one in there. But I do what you do. As far as the labeling, I try to get detailed with my label so that I can go back and look at it. And really, as far as I'm concerned, lots of times when I like the value in the way points for me is in the long term. So even though it might be fresh signed just this year, that that's helpful to me right now as I'm marking that, but it's also helpful to me next year because I can look back and see all that previous year's sign and how that matches up, and you start seeing, you know, at a high level, you'll start to sese big picture stories even if it was old signs. Sometimes, as you know, many times a new buck will come in and do something similar because it's a terrain feature or something with cover or something to do with typical hunting pressure that will make Dear use certain areas. So you know that historical data is still helpful. Um, if I was better, maybe labeling in such a way so you could discern fresh versus not fresh, that would be good, but I just haven't gone that far. Yeah, I used to. Um, it's been so nice to being able to use on X because in the past, UM, like I have essentially like binders for each state and they are full of maps, and I used to color code like my marker marks and like pen marks, UM, and I would mark everything down so like you know, when I would see a dear travel, I would mark that, like literally draw it on the map and I put the date in time. So I mean, it's just it's just so much data of you know, like my my Michigan binder, my Ohio binder, my Kentucky, Maryland, UM, Iowa, Illinois, like all of these, and it's just so much data over years. And now now they have on X, it's like you can put it all, put it all right on there and make it you know, so it's all in one spot. But UM, that's what I used to do in that much detail. But I would just do it all by hand. Now do you still I know, I don't know. A couple of years ago, I think we talked about some of your journaling that you used to do. Are you still doing journaling hunting, you know, per day by day stuff or is that change to No, I've absolutely absolutely still do that. I just haven't done the handwriting map markups as much. You know, it's kind of pretty much almost all mobile now. Um. Sometimes I'll still carry like a hard paper map. Um, you know, like if I'm going to a new area and I you know, I just want something quick, or maybe service might be questionable or I don't have downloadable maps. But for the most part, I'm going all on X. But the the daily logs of hunts, yeah, I still do that, and I'm still very detailed with that. I wish I was better every year. Every year I tell myself I'm gonna do it, and I start and I do it here and there, and then it's usually sometime during the rut and I'm tired and ship hits the fan and I lose track. Yeah. Ah. Jordan's asks how big was your first white tail buck you ever harvested, and how to influence your expectations as you became more experienced. It's funny. This question is funny because I took a picture of I have a h crept on a deer in my mom's basement Will Ferrell style. Uh yeah me low, yeah, So I was over there, uh earlier, I was last week and I was down there and I was just kind of looking through them and you know, going through I don't get to see them that often. And I follow my first buck and it's a little spike. Um, it's got a shape kind of looked like a bull bullhorns like a they kind of go up and then they point forward like a little bull. And he's probably six inches wide. Um. And I put it in the palm of my hand, like my hand spread out. I got pretty big hands, but like it's like it's smaller than the poem in my hand. And I snapped a photo of it, and uh, it was just so funny. But that was my first buck, and um, it was. It was so cool because I went hunting with a buddy and um, I just made You couldn't make a more perfect shot, um than what I did on this deer. I mean it just perfect double lung. He ran twenty yards and died and I was just in heaven. You know, I was so pumped. Um. But I guess how it I don't know how that influenced me, but I from that very first day, I was always I always wanted to do like I never wanted to really shoot one that size again like I wanted. Okay, I was always of that mindset, was like, you know, bigger older, bigger older. So I kind of followed that that progression right from the beginning, and like as you know, like there's no family that got me into hunting, so I didn't really go for that through that phase of like where I shot like you know, maybe a bunch of year and a half year old bucks. I mean, I shot a couple maybe like two, um, and then you know, then I started, you know, killing some twos, and then I started killing some twos and threes, and then I started killing some threes and four you know what I mean. So it was just I've always been of that mindset, and I think it's because I did get it into it on my own and just um, I don't know, it was just kind of the natural progression, I guess the way my mind worked. Uh now, how this isn't you know, this is a little off topic, but that progression that a lot of us go through. You you get get figured out, you kill a few, then you want to take the next step. You want to take the next step at some point, did you reach Okay, I've done that enough now I need to like rethink what my goal is because I can't keep exceeding. You know, there's a story of like I'm Andre de Quisto talking about how for years he would never kill a buck unless it was an inch bigger than the last one or something, and he kept on trying to do that for I don't know how long. UM. And then for a long time he was trying to kill like a world record typical buck or something. Was so obsessed with a single minded goal like that. UM. And I know he's eventually transitioned off of that to some degree, but I'd be curious to get his to hear from him as far as how that mentally affected his joy of the hunt, if eventually that took something away from it. Um. Have you gotten to a point yet where you've had to rethink that? I think you have, because I know now that you you know, you're not always killing the biggest buck in the world if it's a certain situation. UM, explain, explain how that kind of came about for you. Yeah, absolutely so. I don't know, I don't know what year it was, but like somewhere kind of you know, maybe you know, nine ten years in something like that. I I got to I looked up to guys like like Andre and some of these other guys that were very visible, you know, and magazines or videos and stuff, and it's like you kind of tried to you know, they were very motivating, you know, and um, there was so much emphasis on like score and stuff like this. And I knew I was from Michigan, and I knew, you know, deer you know, aren't gonna happen here, uh with any regularity. So but but I I got to a point where I started putting an actual score in my head that I wanted to achieve. And it was very brief, um, and it was it got to be right around that like one, because I had done it for a few years here in Michigan, and I was like, okay, that's my minimum. Well then I literally went like two years without as much as seeing or a trail camp picture of anything over one twenty. And I kind of was like, you know, getting a little disappointed or whatever. And and it did it. When I started focusing on like score, it did take a little bit of the enjoyment away, um for me personally, and I've never been a score chaser since. Um, that was very short lived, but I did. I did get to that at one point where I was like kind of worried about that and because everybody was like so stressing score so much, you know, and uh, then I just realized, you know, it's just not for me. I'm going to focus on just the best quality books that I can find in the area i'm hunting, and and that's kind of what I settled in on. And of course, like you know, there's years where I have, uh, you know, maybe there's a maybe there's a buck around that's a hundred fifty, two hundred sixty, you know, somewhere in that of course, I'm going to concentrate on that deer and and hunt that deer smart and put some effort into it because it's rare. And you know, I'm gonnam. I want that challenge, but I don't have I don't have a number in my mind anymore because there's there's just you know, last year, you know, um, the buck I shot, he's a beautiful ten, but he's not like an incredible high scorer. He's like you know, mid mid to low one authorities or something, and um, I'm just guessing I don't even score, my dear, but you know, that was the one of the better ones I could find, and that's one of the ones I hunted, And that's kind of that's kind of my that's kind of the way I think about it now. I just don't I don't worry about score. I worry about um maturity to a point, but just the top end bucks in the area I'm hunting, that's kind of what I'm after. And uh, I don't know. Maybe I'd be different if I owned, you know, a sweet farm in Iowa, and you know, you you have the confidence when you pass a some of these three or four year old bucks that they're gonna make it and you can get them to that age where they can grow some world class anglers. I probably would look at the is different, But that's not my situation, and I don't know that I even wanted to be my situation, to be honest. Yeah, I hear you, I too, I too found that as soon as you go down that road, it quickly leads to disappointment in most situations. So yeah, for me, it's it's usually I'm trying to have some kind of goal, reasonable goal for an area that's that's essentially whatever that top tier is so usually I try to go age or sometimes experience will infiltrate it, you know. So you know all the stories where I'll get hung up on a specific buck and get really stuck on that one, even though I might pass on larger antler bucks or maybe even a buck that's possibly older, because I'm so stuck on trying to kill that one. So that's the only time I kind of go off of my own little weird wormhole. But that's fun. That's like a cool different challenge that I've grown to to have a love hate relationship with. But I keep I keep getting suckered into it. Um. But my first buck was a five point there with like a normal little three point side and then a funky fork that kind of it was like you had a two pronged fork and then you melted it over a flame. So those forked ends like weirdly twisted, just a funky little guy. Um, just a year and a half old. And my only regret with that deer is that for some reason, and I think it was just like a family tradition in that I grew up in kind of an old timey hunting family. We hunted up north and we never shot Doz, so it's like the only shot Bucks. So I got into hunting and I thought I had to shoot a buck. So I passed up on lots of opportunities at does because I really wanted to shoot a buck. But I think that if I had not done that, if I started shooting Doze at a younger age, I would have gotten a lot of those kinks out of the system, you know, earlier, and been more effective at killing some bucks later if I had done that instead of waiting so long to get that shot. So so I screwed up on some bucks that I hope ler that. I think I would have got a shot and missed one. I've knocked an arrow off because I wasn't you know, I wasn't experienced with dealing with those final seconds of an encounter. So that's the one thing I think, as far as expectations is if I learned anything, it was when you're just getting started, you gotta get some of that in the moment of the kill experience under your belt. Don't don't be too picky when you're getting started. Don't feel bad even though Anie May and Dan Johnson and Andrew d quis star shooting big Bucks every year. Don't feel like you need to be doing the same thing if you know, if you're just figuring it out and if that's not what you're trying to do yet you know, absolutely, yeah, for sure. And I want to circle back real quick to what you talked about. Another thing you know, for me is um as far as like you know, going after a certain deer or maybe a certain situation where I might you know, shoot a deer that you know, maybe maybe a smaller or something than some of the bucks I've shot in the past, is like the the actual experience of that situation. So like, you know, I've been in situations where you know, I saw a buck betted, you know, like in a CRP field, and I was like, man, it would be so epic if I could sneak up on this and shoot him while he's betted, and it might be you know what I mean. So it's like, sometimes those experiences drive me to make decisions to take an animal just because it's a cool hunt or it would be an epic story, you know, and and uh, just something different or something challenging. There's a lot of times where you know, I I would choose to to take an animal just because of the scenario. I guess yeah. I mean, when it comes right down to it, you know, we're doing this to enjoy it, right, So if if you're having a good time, if it gets so excited, more power to you, exactly. Ye all right. Landing's got a question here. He says, do you think bucks to get old from being a elusive to humans or do you think they just have a pattern that you haven't quite figured out yet. I believe some of them get old simply due to the fact that they live in a spot that humans don't typically hunt. So I think it's kind of saying, do some bucks make it because they're lucky, or they just naturally are in spots of humans don't go, or do they actually pattern us and figure us out? Um, I don't know, how do you think about that? I think it's I think both those answers are correct. You know, in areas that have high um hunter density, you know, these these deers just become experts at being elusive and moving very little in daylight and uh, you know, seeking out those spots that are that are really hard to get to, maybe not even overlooked, but hard to get to without alerting him. They just seek out those spots that are almost bulletproof. Um. And then you know, there's there's other times where, like you know, the I think both. I think both of those answers are correct. It just depends on on the situation really, um, you know, in in the type of the type of habitat, the type of pressure that that area has. Um. I've seen bucks that have personalities that they move a ton um, but they just seem to always make the right move and never put themselves in danger. And then there's other books that just move that's a very last couple of minutes of daylight, you know, and you you literally need to be on top of them to get a crack at them, and and sometimes it's not even feasible or possible. You have to wait till like the rut when they're out moving. More So, I think both of those scenarios are correct and any any given situation, Yeah, agreed, I think there's a little bit of both. But I do definitely think that in a way we are selecting four the dumber dear or the more active dear. Like if you look at the average hunter, the or the majority of bucks that get killed, are those bucks that were probably predisposition to be a little bit more active. Those are the ones that end up getting killed on average at a higher rate than the ones that are predispositioned to be you know, scott old timers that just stick in the stick in the stuff, and they never like to move around. I mean, the deer that naturally is lazier, naturally doesn't want to get up move a whole lot, regardless of hunting pressure. That's the buck that's going to make it to an older age, even if he isn't particularly smart or hasn't learned anything. That's just kind of his evolutionary gift that's helping him make it to an older age. So there's some of that. But but yeah, some of these dear do somehow figure it out. I don't know if it's you don't want to pen too much human knowledge to them, right. They're not like thinking, oh, what's marking to do tonight? They're not doing that, but but they certainly know how to survive. Yeah. Absolutely. Benjamin asks what's the number one thing that a great hunter does that the average hunter doesn't do? And he defines great hunter as successful most years going after their target buck. But you can define however you want, I would say, um, you know, making sure they're scouting, um, scouting enough, making sure you're you're doing more scouting than hunting. Most great hunters that I know that are you know, kind of d I y guys like ourselves, you know hunting I guess areas that aren't like managed and whatnot. Um, they scout more than they hunt. That seems to be a very common quality, unless unless some guys are just like strictly rout hunters, you maybe can get away from that. Um, but so scouting more than you hunt. And then also just being prepared and that that could be you're scouting, that could be um, you know, your your equipment, your your archery shooting, you know all that stuff that the really good hunters they don't leave a lot to chance, I think. I mean there's always some, but they do everything in their power to be prepared and ready going into the season so that it will ensure the likelihood of success. Yeah. Yeah, what I was gonna say was being detail oriented. I feel like almost all of the really successful hunters are very detail oriented. All the little things matter, because like you just said, there's there's so many things out of our control. When we're trying to kill a deer, especially mature deer, there's so many variables outside of our control that if you don't take control of everything you can, there's too much left up to fate that's gonna keep you from being consistent. So if you want to be consistent, all the little things matter. Tuning your bow just right matters. Making sure you think about every scenario when you're heading into access or exit, or the details of your your sent control, or what you think the wind's gonna do, or you're scouting, or you know what days are gonna hunt, what days you are not gonna hunt, or what days to take your vacation, or I mean every little bit the squeak of your seat that might make the difference between a kill and not getting a kill. So those guys that become consistent find a way too. You know, they don't skirt, they don't cut corners, they don't take the easy way. They try to you know. My uh the coach at Michigan State, the football coach up until last year, Mark D'Antonio, he always said it was a game of inches, and I always think about that with deer hunting. It's that last inch usually there's little inches add up to make a big difference. So always always think about that. And every time I find myself wanting to get lay in something where every time I'm saying I'm probably good enough, I try to catch myself and think, no, man, this little thing could be everything. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right one thing real quick for me personally, and there's probably other guys out there. I'm sure that I feel this kind of the same way. But I can't. I can't accept failure if it's due to um, my own doing, like if I make a mistake, or if I'm unprepared, or if I go into a season and I didn't scout enough and I come out of that season having a you know, a poor season, or um, you know, not having success, and I can literally put the blame on you know, my shooting preparation, or my lack of scouting, or my lack of commitment or giving up too easily or you know, not wanting to get up early, um you know, any one of those things. Though, Failure because of any of those just eat me live. And I've I've failed in the past many times for all of those reasons. And uh, I just won't. I won't do that anymore. I won't tolerate that anymore. So, like you said, I try to control and work on everything that I can so that I'm prepared if I fail, because you know, the deer don't cooperate the buckum after it gets killed, he just doesn't come by my stand another hunter gets him. That. You know, I can take that, that's that's out of my control. I can accept that. I can be you know, move on to the next year or the next season with a good attitude. But if it's because of something I did or didn't do, that's the stuff. I just it just eats at me like a cancer. And and I've had it happened before, and now I just I just don't leave any of that to chance. I just I've said it to you before. I feel like I over prepare. Um, I try to overprepare, if that's even such a thing, so that I would I would really need to be unlucky in a season for me to not have at least some success. And I think that's that really kind of ties together. Both of those two ideas we talked about comes down to that that over preparation and the people that are most consistent. I think that's that's absolutely a uniting factor, and you're you're a perfect example of that. Um, here's a different here's a different one. That's that's kind of interesting, Adam asks. I know enough to know that finding sheds isn't the biggest piece to the puzzle, but it is a piece. If you find the sheds to an incredible buck two years in a row, what are some of the things you would do to help in the fall track that buck down? So I guess to rephrase this question a little bit, how do you think sheds factor at all into a hunting strategy? And how would you use that information if it's helpful when you're trying to kill him the next year? Yeah, you want me to take this one? Uh? Yeah, you can start, okay. Um. I think it really depends on a lot of these answers. Uh, really depend on the type of situation, the type of habitat, the type of property that you're talking about. So, um, just let's for instance, around here, let's say like mixed Tagg country where I'm at here in southern Michigan or northern Ohio. If I find a set of sheds two years in a row, off a buck, and that that tells me that he's in the area, um, you know, maybe even in that specific area towards the end of the season, you know, December. If I'm finding his antlers like in January, you know, there's a there's a safe bet that he was close by towards you know, the end of the season. So that's that tells me that, but it doesn't necessarily tell me that's where he was early season or during the rut. So here, it's very common for bucks to be in a certain area, you know, early season and then transition and slightly to another area, um for more of like the breeding part of the season. Um. Some some deer that I've hunted completely disappear, you know, Like let's say it's a it's in an area that's mainly privately and they completely disappear. I have no idea. I don't have access to any of this ground. UM, So you know, I don't know, even though I might have found his sheds on mine, Like, I have no idea where he is the rest of the season. But what at least around here, what I can say is if you're finding sheds, he's probably in the neighborhood so what I would do, um, you know, maybe it's a maybe it's a mile, maybe it's to two miles you know radius or something that he's he's probably in that area. So I would utilize finding those sheds that you know, this is kind of his broad home range, and I would if it's If it's public, you're probably pretty good. You got some room to roam and try to figure things out and try to locate this deer. If it's private, I would do you know, some knocking on some doors, um and and and trying to to maybe pinpoint where this deer is early. Um it just so then I got another I got a buddy in Maryland who finds tons of sheds and he will literally find sheds in the same little wood lot where he'll shoot that deer the following year. The deer pocketed up in real high deer density, and they're not a lot of cover due to uh city sprawl. It's kind of like you know, suburban type hunting um, you know, and they can live in and around these small wood lots year round. So he'll find sheds off these bucks and shoot him in that same woods sometimes. So he for him, it's it's a huge piece of the puzzle on even where to hunt that deer? Where here? If I find them? A lot of times i'll find them, uh in an area where I won't maybe actually be hunting for that dear. It's probably close by, but it might be you know, a half mile away, or it might be you know, it could be only five yards away. It could be you know, two miles away. It just it just depends. So it's it's a piece of the puzzle. It could be a very big piece of the puzzle in certain situations. It could be a smaller piece of the puzzle than others. Yeah, I feel like the most the most helpful thing it does for me is just confirm life. It confirms that buck made it through the season. Now I know, okay, he's a buck. I can focus on next year. If I don't find those sheds, and if I don't see him, maybe I haven't seen him since November, Well, then how much time do I really wanted to vote to formulating a strategy around him or making changes to the property or my setups to kill that buck or anything that. How much time do you want to study past trail camera pictures, study his patterns? Um if I don't know he's alive. I'm still I'm stuck, waiting, stuck, wondering, stuck. You know, well, maybe maybe not. But if I find the sheds now, you know it's game on now. Yeah, something could happen in between now in the season. He could get hit by car, could get killed by disease. But you've got a pretty good chance he's gonna make it now. You know, Okay, he's alive. Now I'm going to really focus on him. So that means Okay, in the off season when I'm not doing something, if it's if it's June one and degrees outside, I'm not going to do something out in the property, but I want to get something done. Well, if I know that he's there still, I'm going to study pass trail cameras and start finding whens those couple of windows of time when he moved during daylight last year or the year before. Um, all that kind of stuff you can attack with so much more focus now that you know he's there. Um. The second thing I'd say is you can get a little bit that might be helpful during hunting season if you find those sheds in something like a betting area. You know, if you find that and you can actually see, oh wow, this is a buck bed, and I know that this buck was betted right here, and you know it was in the late season, in the winter, this is where he betted. That's a really important helpful clue to get if you're going to hunt him in the late season. Again, so if if you get to December of the next year and you're still hunting him, well, now you can know, okay, well, during the winter with this kind of food source, this was a place he felt safe, and that can be a helpful piece of the puzzle. You now know one of the hubs of the wheel and plan accordingly with that knowledge. Now that you can you know, lots of times you can make assumptions are and I think he's betting around here, I think he's better around here. But if you know I know he betted right here at least once in January or February or something, that's pretty good. I mean, that can tell you something. Um sit in that bed, just like if you found a bed while out scouting, If you know that that exact buck was laying there sitting there, think about it, figure out why he did it. If you're really lucky, if it was a fresh drop, you might even be able to see his tracks coming in and out of it backtrack, see how he walked to that spot. Um. You know, in a lot of cases you won't people have that information. But if you get lucky and happen upon it when they're still snow on the ground and you can see those big tracks, you know, take advantage of that kind of thing, if you get that. Um last year or this year, I guess I found the match set off the buck I'm after this year, that that buck tran that I really want to get a shot at. Now, I don't think I get anything from that is other than just knowing he made it. I'm not learning anything very helpful because it was in the middle of a cornfield right by the road, so he was out there. He was out there mill of the night dropped. Um Um. All I know is that he was still in the general area in the late season, which which I knew because of sightings too. So I think Adams right and that he said they are a piece of the puzzle, but they're not the biggest piece, and just take everything a canna right. Every little detail could help flesh out that bigger picture. Yeah, I kind of tackled that question under the assumption he had just found the sheds and didn't have any sightings or history with it. Like if you obviously, like in your situation with Tran, you had so much data of sightings and and trail cameras, um, you know, so you you kind of know a tentative gameplay how to hunt that deer. And for you it was just like you said, confirmation of life. But if you just find a set of sheds, and you know, you've been hunting this general area of the last two years, but you found these sheds, you haven't seen this deer. You haven't got any trail camp pictures, this dear, you're probably not hunting the right area, but he's probably in the neighborhood. So that's what that's what prompted me to say, you know, check venture out, you know, check you know, a different wood lot, check the swamp over here, check this marsh, you know, expand your search. Um, knock on some doors, use all the public land, run cameras, glass, you know, really try to to hone in and if it's a if it's a substantial dear like around here. A lot of times, um, there there might just be one big mature buck. So if I find big mature buck sign There's been many situations where, like I've it's almost certain that this is the deer that I'm after. You know, this is almost certainly him because all the rest of the deer and sure, so you know, just think about that. If you do find a set, you don't have any history with the deer, haven't seen him actually hunting or scouting or anything like that. He's probably not far off. He's probably in the neighborhood, but you need to go out and do your work to find him. Have you have you killed one? You found his sheds before? Oh? Yeah? Yeah? How often a thing is that for you? On? Not not super often, um, because I honestly I don't find a lot of sheds here in Michigan. Um. I don't have run here. Yeah, And I don't really have any you know ground that I hunt that has like good late season food sources really um uh, you know, maybe maybe a couple a couple of pieces that you don't have, some some draw and some some late season I've found a couple of sheds, um, and a buddy has killed um. But yeah, there's there's a there's a few, um that I have, but not not a not a lot here in Michigan. I just don't you know, if I find I think this year I found seven or eight, um, you know, and that was I went out. I put on the miles, you know, I went out at least a dozen different times for anywhere from four to five hours each time. And that's that's pretty average, you know, with that amount of effort I've had. The most I've ever found was twelve. I've had plenty of years where I found like four, you know. So yeah, that's that sounds about about right. Yeah, I think my best, well this year is my best Michigan year ever. And I found eleven good but but well, I mean it's not that good compared to a lot of guys or girls, but for Michigan, it's not that. But I found the I found the match set from the number one buck hum after so that's huge. And then I found a left side off of another mature buck that I'll be after maybe. And then I also found the left side of another buck that could be a shooter on the back forty maybe to be a three year old. I think it's the best, but that might be the best we've got out there. So so as far as you know, finding sheds off bucks that might hunt, this is not a bad year. Yeah. What I find, what I find out here just because it is, you know, vast majority is is is private land, very little public land. If you're if you're hunting in this area, there's a lot of very small parcels and if you're lucky enough to get permission on you know, any of these, you're you're hunting a very very small window of you know, where this deer's life is. And that's why I kind of go back to, you know, finding those micro patterns and seeing those that historical data of when you can hunt this very small, tiny area for a particular deer and only hunt it during that time, and the chances of finding a shed there and killing him there, you know, in most of these cases are these small areas with really really high pressure. It's just it's it's just a hard thing to pull off down here, unless you've got a big private farm or something like this, or a nice big chunk of public land, which there's just not a lot of it around here. Yeah, So let's keep on with this kind of theme a little bit of trying to figure out, you know, what these pieces of the puzzle are for a buck. Here after we had a question here from guy nam Joe, and he says, if you're monitoring an area with trail cameras, how close is too close to a Buck's core area, let's say his betting area or some of those potential betting areas. UM, how tight in there are you willing to get with your cameras when you're trying to figure out those pieces of the puzzle and zero it in. UM. I use most of the time I put my cameras that are in areas that are fairly easy accessible, meaning I don't have to go through like betting cover or anything that where I'm gonna spook dear. I. I kind of put a lot of effort in thought into if it's something that I'm going to be checking throughout the season, I won't I won't get too close. UM. All I really need to know if it's an area, if it's an area that I know well, all I need to know is that he's in the area. The rest of the knowledge is has been laid down from previous scouting, knowing the lay of the land and the habitat and where the traveler rolts are, where the likely betting is, where the water is, where the food is. That that's what you figure out when you get those boots on the ground and the map scouting and all that. For me personally, the trail camp picture is just like, Okay, he's here now, you know, this is where he was, you know, uh on this day. And now if if I feel like he's in this area consistently or now is the time, and then I'll go dive in and hunt him. The other situation is I will put in I will put trail cameras in sensitive spots, but I'll leave them there almost the entire season, you know what I mean. It's more it's more for intel for future seasons, future hunts. Um, you know, just an area where I don't want to go in and bust your out, but I'm gonna get some good information. That's that's I think. That's probably the way I mostly use trail cameras. I know some guys put them at their stand locations. I do that occasionally, not not real often, but occasionally, like and I'll check it as I go in and hunt. But for me, most of the time I'm not hunting certain stands repetitively. It's it's very rare that I hunt stand more than two or three times if that, you know. So that's that's kind of the way I look at it. Um. I think people utilize them in different ways, though, yeah, I would. I would echo a lot of that. I too, prefer to be pretty conservative with my trail cameras. Mostly I'm trying to pick easy access spots that just confirm, you know, is he in the area, how close to daylight is he moving in this area that's easily accessible, And if he's in there in daylight or just on the edge of daylight, that means he is moving in daylight a little farther back in the spots that you might want to hunt. So so it can still be helpful. But so I wouldn't go too tight into like a core betting area with my cameras unless the thing you just said, which is something that I've done live in the past, you know, stick a camera back in a betting area, back in a sensitive area, and then leave it over the season. But this year I want to do a lot more of them. I want to make a point this year to dedicate a big chunk of my maybe not a big chunk, but a substantial enough chunk of my cameras too, Just collecting a bunch of information that's not gonna help me this year, but it's going to help in the future. Um. Because there's a number of those spots. Every year I hunt them and I'm like, oh man, it's great back here. Would I never get any pictures because I never want to go in there and throw camera. Um, but I hunt it once a year, twice a year or something. There's so much more going on that I could be learning if I had my second set eyes there. So this year, I'm gonna make a point in August, probably when I get my final scouting prep work, and I'll stick a couple of cameras and these tough to reach spots with great set of lithium batteries in a big camera or big SD card and just let it run until January, because I do think that's really helpful stuff. Especially like we talked about many times, these bucks do somewhat similar things year after year, or even if that buck is killed, other bucks will come in and use an area in the same way because there's there's something there that that makes it conducive to to a deer doing something. Yeah, right, Um, how do you speaking of, how do you organize all your trail camera gear? This is from Project hunt h Q. Do you do you have any good organization system for your cameras or or pictures? Um, like organizing my my pictures, like on my computer. Let's do both. Let's actually your trail cameras and trail camera related gear actually the physical thing, and then also the pictures themselves. Okay, well the pictures them else. Um. Yeah, I put them all into folders, usually labeled by the area I'm hunting, like you know, so and so state game area or blah blah blah farm or you know whatever. Um, and then I'll i'll label within that folder, I'll have another folder of the camera location in that area. And then i'll also I usually do it's usually seems to be broken down. Um, it kind of depends. But like if it's one that I'm saying, maybe I'm checking, you know, more frequently, it might say you know, so and so drainage early October, and then there'll be a next folder so and so draining the same drainage. You know, uh, mid to late October and then so so drainage early early November. So I kind of break it down like almost like into like two week periods UM, just so they're at least so there's somewhat organized by time and loca shan um. So I'll do that UM. And then I'll also if if I start zeroing in on a particular deer and like I'm after a deer and he makes it so now that history is starting to build, then I'll have a folder of just information on that deer, and that that's going to include all his pictures. So now I can go in and really start mapping out what this deer is doing. I'll go back and I'll cross across the reference like historical weather data, and I start looking at the wind, I start looking at the temperatures and all this stuff to see if I can come up with something, and usually I could. I could start to come up with some sort of pattern that will at least give me, you know, a beat on him, a when and where I need to to kill this deer. UM. So that's why I'll really dive in if it's a If it's a deer, I'm getting history with UM. But then if it's just a particular area, those same types of patterns can materialize as well, like you'll see, you know, maybe maybe maybe if you have it in like a funnel or um like on a scrape or something like that, you'll you'll start to see when the activity really starts to pick up, you know, and then maybe there's a short window of in early November or late October or whenever it is, where I'll boom, all of a sudden, you get this five day window of mature buck sightings. It's maybe not an actual individual buck y're after, but maybe there's maybe there's two or three in there that you'd be happy to shoot, you know. So I start I start to look at those patterns as well. And it's when you when you do that over a lot of years, over a lot of areas, it starts to really kind of lay out a lot of options moving forward from year to year. So not that my whole hunting season has played out and I know where I'm gonna hunt October one, I'm not saying that, but it's it's kind of a it's almost like a tentative layout and things change, you know, in the season, because you're doing in season scouting and other deer show up, or this deer gets killed and you gotta change, or pressure creeps in and changes everything. But you know that's why in season, scouting and being able to move in immediately as important as well. But that's kind of how I organized my pictures. As far as my trail camera gear, I guess I don't really understand the question. I mean, I guess I will, I will. I will answer it myself and then see if that spurs anything for you. As far as that, I simply have to places that I keep my cameras. I've got like a plastic tote, and then I've got actually a bag that was created for trail camera stuff Multure makes. It's kind of like a sling over your shoulder kind of bag that's got padded compartments where you can put cameras, and then there's some side pockets where you can put in batteries or whatever. And then there's actually a really nice little um SD card sleeve or booklet almost where you can put my own twenty SD cards in there. So I put cameras and all my equipment and that, and then this plastic tote I will put whatever other cameras. I have plus extra batteries, plus extra SD cards, plus UM. I usually got a knife in there if I have to cut something as I'm you know, putting up a camera or something like that, or popping out batteries out of the trail camera card or trail camera UM. Also any accessories for mounting, like I'll have lots of stick and pick um mounts sometimes to get you know, on a tree in a certain way off, extra straps and buckles. I try to have all that in this box, and so I will have either both of them with me. If I'm in my a TV or my truck or something, I can have that stuff with me. I'll take the tope with everything. If I'm walking to a spot or if I'm heading out I don't know, for some reason, I can't take the big thing on a TV or something, I'll throw that one over my shoulder. And it's just nice to have like everything you need. Because something that's happened to me a lot, and it always pisces me off, is that I'll go out thinking I'm just pulling a card, and so I'll be in a hurry and I run out there and and I get to the spot, and then I realized you open it up and the camera's dead, and I wasn't prepared and I didn't bring batteries, or I didn't bring an extra SD car or something. I hate. It's happened to me too many times over the years when I got lazy or stupid. So now I'm trying to this is the situation, trying to be over prepared when I go check those cameras, because every time you go in there, you are putting scent on the ground, you are possibly pressuring deer. So I want to be able to minimize those entries as much as possible. I don't want any in and out, in and out stuff. I want to go on once, knock it out exactly what I need, and get out of there as quietly and as carefully as possible. So having a nice little like go bag ready has helped me out with that the last year or two. So that's my gear. As far as pictures for me, pretty similar to you. UM. I have a folder for every property, and then for each property, then I break it down by year, so then I have another folder for every single year, UM, and then I just save pictures of Buck two or older. UM. And I'll get I'll keep every two year old buck or older picture in that folder. Um, and then I haven't organized chronologically. And then sometimes if I get a specific buck I'm after, like you said, I will make a subfolder just for that dear, but I'll keep I'll keep his pictures in the full year one as well, because I still want to go back and sometimes, like you just said, go back and scroll the whole year, and then you'll start to see, you know, like those little windows. Oh man, look at this in two thousand seventeen from the nine all these bucks were moving in daylight for some reason. Um, that's interesting. But then I'll also want to zero it in on that specific buck, and I can do that with with that. I also sometimes will go and use deer lab. So again, if I'm going after a specific buck, I'll bload pictures of that buck to that website where you can analyze specific patterns and you can start tying things together. But I, for whatever reason, I find it helpful, and I do it, but I somehow end up going back to my little custom spreadsheet maybe more often. So I also have online spreadsheets for these specific bucks I'm after two where I will log every daylight sighting in every daylight trail camera appearance, and I logged every time there's a daylight sighting of some kind. I log it along with all the weather, all the different factors, where he was, what direction, where he's going, what the wind was doing, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Again, trying to you know, unearth some kind of pattern. So that's what I've gone. Yeah, I'm just saying pretty much the same. Yeah. And as far as like just storing my cameras, they're all they're just all on a tote, well sent free tote, and they go in there to all the batteries come out. They go in there until they're ready to go back out. It's about it. Yeah, alright, rapid fire continuing. We got a question from Scott uh top books that have influenced your success in the field. You got any books, Andy that have helped you? Yeah. Um, certainly when I started out, Um that even Hurt books were uh, we're influential. Um, mainly like um, you know, I hunted maybe a little bit different than John in some ways and in some ways not so different, but um, they were really influential in the fact that I could see how much detail and dedication and time and how important scouting was to be consistent, to be consistent on mature deer in a in a state like Michigan. So it was it was almost like a kind of a blueprint of you know, the way, the way he hunted, in the effort he put in. So that that was a good one. Um, let's see what else. Uh, you know, some some of these, some of these are are really good for what I would say maybe maybe like beginner hunters or maybe people that are just getting past like the beginning phase and they're trying to venture out, get some new experiences and some new terrain, new habitat. But um, I really liked that mapping Trophy White Tails. It's it's it's very basic, but it's uh it is it's very good in terms of the features of hill country. How dear use some of them? Um. You know, if you're kind of if you're an experienced hill country you don't need that book. Um, but it's a it's a it's a very good book for someone that's maybe just getting past that beginner phase and going to tackle some hill country. I would definitely recommend that. Um. Then there's actually some some there. They're mart geared towards out West, like mule deer type stuff that that I've really liked. And I know that's not what we're talking about here, so but probably those two stand out. Um, I really liked more for entertainment purposes. The Benoit books, Um, you know, I always I have those on the bookshelf. Those are great. How to bag the Biggest buck of your life and then big Bucks the Benoit Way, Um, those are all those are all real good. Um. I really like the out West bucks. Uh are the merely Hunting with Dwight Sho I've really enjoyed those. He's he's a hunter that I kind of kind of a legendary be oldier hunter in the mountains that I kind of look up to. Um, So I really like that. If if there's a guy that's a looking to get into some Western stuff, that's a good one. Um yeah, yeah, those are those are all good ones. I would echo a couple that you said, Um, definitely Eberhart ones. Um Precision Bow Hunting, which was the second one they did. I think that is my better that's my favorite. And that's the one that was the first one I read of theirs, and that was I said this many times before, so long time listeners know this, but that was like my lightbulb moment. I read that book and then everything started clicking. Um, So that one for sure. And then my next favorite one of theirs is actually the most unique one of their four, which is White Tail Access, which is the one that Chris Eberhardt wrote, which isn't just a how to, It was actually the story of one season where he traveled across the country hunting all these different places. And then he tells the story of all those hunts and that those trips, and then throughout those stories he also kind of describes his thought process. He shows maps and diagrams, the how too of everything is doing. And that's that's one of my absolute favorites where you it's actually it's a fun read. You kind of get to go on the hunting season with him, but then you also learned something. Um. If I ever write a deer hunting book, adjust a deer hunting book, I'd wanted to be something like that, um, because that was the fun read but but interesting he you read that one, Um No, but I have. I've had it in my hands and I've kind of you know, browsed through it and read a couple of stories, and I really like the layout of that. That's one I'll have to have to sit down and read. Yeah, you should, you should read. You can borrow my cop be some day. It's it's a good one. Um. And then I will so ebra hard ones for sure. I really like the mapping trophy box when you mentioned. And then I will say, for the one thing I do different than you, and you do a little bit helping out with your buddies, but I do a little bit of habitat work, whether it be on the back forty or the one other local property to have. And so as far as like habitat management stuff, um, probably my favorite books on that topic are Jeff Sturgises. I really like his analytical, very strategic way of approaching different ways to improve a property in a way that helps you from hunting perspectives. So Whitetail Habitat by Design it was his first one, and that's probably my favorite. Um, that'd be one i'd suggest if you're going to try that kind of thing, how about oh stuff to choose from? But um, all right, punisher is this guy's name or handle? Here's a question I have. Oh, let me okay, Yeah, I have a farm area that I hunt has a high dough population. I tried to hunt an exit trail that I watched the buck used during a certain wind. But when I moved in between the bedding in the field edge the doughs in the field, we're catching my scent and blowing out like crazy. The bedding is close to the field edge, and this buck exits next to a shallow ditch in the field. How do you locate a stand when surrounded by so many doughs and also set up next to something like a ditch that might impact thermals or something like that. He's kind of asking, So I think that to make it a little more generic, how do you go out trying to set up in a scenario We've got tons of doughs that are going out to feed out into like your open safe space during the first part of the afternoon or starting the latter part of the afternoon. But then you've got bedding close to that, so you your wind can't blow into the timber because that's where the box betted. But you don't want to blow it in the field because the last hour of daylight all the dough is there, gonna be there's gonna be that go out there, and then they're gonna wind you and then buck never comes out. This is a scenari I found myself in a lot on one of the properties that hunt. Um, how do you how do you try to do that? That this this weird wind cutting corner stuff. It's one of those big challenges for a lot of guys. Yeah. Yeah, that's a tough situation when you have a really uh abnormally high amount of doze um, like your ratio is as out of whack, and it makes it really tricky. There's so many eyes and and knows is that you gotta beat, you know, before the buck. Um. So I guess in that situation, like I almost would never um hunt that type of situation with my wind blowing right out in the field, especially if I knew, dear we're gonna be entering the field. I would try to get like maybe some sort of cross wind um type scenario and enter, you know, in from the side. Um. It reminds me a lot of some of the areas I hunt in UM A couple areas specifically in northern Ohio, and you know, entering entering through the field and going into the woods. Um, you know, with the with the wind kind of in your face, bow and back out in the field. It's it's a kind of a recipe for failure. Um. It's what I found is I'm much more effective if I can come in from the side like kind of a hunt, like a side wind, and then hunt perpendicular to the travel um. And and the wind also, you know, per kind of perpendicular. Um. So like, uh, you got you gotta How do I explain this? It's kind of hard without being able to like show a map or something. But if the if the wind is just blowing like straight out into the field, um, and you're kind of off to the side, you know you can you can get away with it a little bit. But a lot of times I'll I'll cheat the wind a little bit. Um. Well, that's a tough that's a tough question. I'm kind of fumbling over my words here because I keep thinking of all these different scenarios. Is he saying the wind has to be blown out into the field. I don't know. If can you hunt it from a different wind. Let's say you can. Let's say you can hunt it from a different wind or whatever scenario you want to paint. Yeah, Okay, So like if that was happening, if the wind, if you're hunting it and the winds blowing out in the field and you're getting caught, Like, that's not a scenario I would set up for anymore. I'd use more of a like an off wind or a or a perpendicular wind, like blowing to the side. I guess, um, you know, try to try to hunt that movement coming in perpendicular instead of like in line with it. Meaning you know, if deer coming out and coming by me, um, and then they end up behind me and that's right where my wind is blowing, that's that's not gonna work. But you can hunt kind of to the side of that travel with the wind in your face, and you could be perfect, perfectly fine. Um. So it's it's it's a matter of just finding that that perfect position, Um, you know, where you can be where you can get away with that. I guess one thing I will say, in areas that have really high deer density, um, from my experience, a lot of times, like you know, there's a big emphasis on you know, getting close to buck beds and stuff. But I've hunted some really high deer density stuff to the east, um, the east part of the country, and that's a really difficult um set up, is getting close to where the bucks are betted because there's so many deer. So what I found is the better approach is to hunt way way back because there's so such high competition that you know, this group of deer, the younger deer and does get up first, then the younger bucks, and then those big bucks will get up and move, assuming all the other deer have, you know, traveled undisturbed. So I've actually had a really good success at older deer hunting, hunting back like where I would never hunt in Michigan, closer to the food source or way away from the bedding. You know, I don't, I don't. I'm talking on like a bed defeat pattern, but backing off and letting all those dear um and and hopefully you know you got your wind and your setup right, and then you're just patient and waiting for all the deer to come or come through. That's kind of how I got killed my buck last year. Yeah, But as far as uh, I don't know, I hope, I hope that's clear it's a it's kind of a tricky question because I wasn't sure where he was going with that with the wind. But I wouldn't hunt like in line where my wind is blowing out into the field. If if deer we're gonna end up in the field, you gotta think of it in terms of you gotta stay undetected for that buck to you know, if he's gonna come out, you've got to stay undetected. Or if it's a situation where you can't, I wouldn't. I wouldn't hunt it. I only hunt the wind where I could do that, And it might it might mean if there's no tree, it might mean you're you're crawling, or you're hunched over and you're sneaking in and you're hunting from the ground, or you're hunting from a you know, inside of a behind some some cover or something. Whatever you gotta do to get in the spot where you can utilize that wind and stay undetected it. Now, as far as he said that the deer was entering from a ditch, I'm assuming low he's entering the field at the low spot. That can be tricky. What you want to do in those situations is do not hunt it on a calm evening. You need you need an evening where there's a stiff enough breeze that it's going to override those thermals like I've been burned so many times where you know, it says there's gonna be you know, ten to eight mile per hour winds, and I set up in a situation like that and then it just the last twenty minutes, it goes down to nothing, and then everything pulls down in that area, and then I hear a deer snort, and you know the game is over. So you really got to pick and choose. Don't just go, you know, hunt that set up Willie nearly on any night. Really look at the forecast, see what the winds doing, make sure it's consistent, make sure it's blowing into an area that's unlikely to have deer get down wind of you. So that that's I guess that's how I tackle that question. I could I could go more ways with it, but you know, I was a little confused at first, but I think that kind of touches on it. Yeah, I would just I would like the simple way I would look at it is that you either you you got to give up something. Either you give give up nothing, and by that I mean you you just choose not to hunt it, because you can't hunt that spot without spooking to any deer, and if you're spooking all those dose, you're spooking the buck. So maybe that's the spot you just can't hunt. Um or number two, you have to give up something, and so you just use whatever intel in past history. You have to determine where the lowest risk spot is. And then as you describe hunting off wind that rather than blowing straight out into the field instead comes parallel to the field, blowing cross ways. And then get as far down as you can so that you know you've got you know, two seventy degrees or something like that of safe space and just that small wedge down to the other side of the field that is you know, at risk, and hopefully that's going to be the spot that is least likely to have to have deer coming out there. But but I have this exact scenario that plays out on one of the properties that hunt and it's a spot that I've seen bucks that I want to take a crack come out when I'm not there, and so I always try to give it a shot, you know, once a year something, depending on what's going on, and it is really hard to pull off. Um, I've had to below my wind cross and into the woods a little bit, but knowing that's the one least likely corner that they usually don't come out. So as I've gotten to figure out the spot better, I know the winds, I can hunt more safely now on it. But it is a little bit of a risky proposition when you have so many deer. But you know, if you're spooking, if you're spooking those doughs, it's it's just as bad as spooking the bucks sometimes when there's that many deer because you get that cascade effect where you spook that first group of tendos that comes out and they push everything back when they run in into the woods, and then your bucks never gonna come on. So, yeah, it is, that's a good question. It's it's it's really it's kind of that situation. Is it can be really high risk, higher reward, like if I'm gonna move in and it's a it's a touchy situation like that. I want to be I want to be sure, like if if I saw that do that a few times, or I have some intel that he had done that. You know, I would absolutely move in and and give that a shot. But just do like what you said and try to keep that wind blowing into the least likely spot where a deer will get down wind, and there's usually you can usually do that, you know. Um, it's just sometimes you gotta get creative. There might not be a tree there, or I like what you said to it just might not be the spot. It might not be the spot to kill him, which is a tough thing to kind of terms with. It's really hard. It's really hard to give up on a spot if it if it looks good, or if you know, if you've gotten pictures of a buck there, or if you've seen a buck there, it's really hard to take that off the off the table as an option. But again, if you keep on educating them every time you go there, you're never gonna get the shot, even though you see him every time you're not hunting there. Um, sometimes you get know when to pull the plug. Okay, seth asks, And this is a situation. I don't know if I can really answer this one, because I don't know if I've hunted this scenario. I gotta think about a little more, but I don't think I've hunted. Yeah, I've found something kind of like this, but I know you for sure have um seth asks. What are some tips you have for scouting or hunting a sixty acre woods or let's just say a small chunk of timber that's surrounded by agg on all four sides. He hunts in Ohio. So this is a situation. I know a lot of guys deal with up in northwestern Ohio where there's tons of agg and then there's these small wood lots, like a little square wood lot ten acres or forty acres, and then it's agg all the way around it. Um, what are some tipts for scouting hunting something like that. He says that he gets deer and camera all summer, but then their patterns changing the fall and they disappear. Um, what's your take on those isolated wood lots surrounded by egg? Yeah? I get the same experience. Um. You know, I'll scout out bachelard group of bucks all summer. Um. And at least I'm assuming you know, if he might hunt a fairly similar area where I hunt in Ohio, where the farming communities. They're just really aggressive and they'll a lot of times get the food out really fast, sometimes like right as season opens, and it just changes everything. You know. And those those wood lots in the area where it's a lot of little wood lots, you know, my and his and and every other hunter, their first instinct is to go and hunt those wood lots. And the mature deer figure that out really quick. And I have killed, uh, outside of the all of my mature deer in that part of Ohio. Um, outside of those woodlots on the ground. Um, I've killed a couple from a tree, but they were more like kind of late October rut type thing funnels. But if you if that, if you look outside of those woodlots, think of those woodlots as they get a lot of traffic from humans, other hunters, et cetera. Unless you're in an area that has really low bow pressure for some reason, then they could be good. Um, sixty acres is pretty big. That's a lot bigger than anything I have up around here. But um, the ditches and the drainages and the hedgerows that connect all these woodlots, the little island of trees the cornfield edges, the clump of trees that's on the edge of the corn field. Um that by you know the bisects like a corn and bean field, like where the edge meats and there's a clump of trees there. These are the spots where I find the big bucks lay. And that's where that's where I've been able to to scout these deer and get on these deer and kill him from the ground. Um. That's not to say this woodlock couldn't be good if there's you know, maybe some oaks in there and there's nobody hunting it and it gets relatively low pressure. But it sounds like he's seeing them in the summer and then there's just kind of nowhere to be found. Um. Up around here is a fairly low deer density. And once that food starts coming out early season, and it comes out early, like the first few days of the boat season, and it starts coming out really quick the deer. A lot of the deer travel and they almost do like almost like a little migration and gravitate towards those big chumps of private property that have just that supreme cover or these like little metroparks, like little parks where there's no hunting that are within like five miles all of a sudden, you know, some of these deer are are literally traveling. They're very nomadic in that type of situation, and they'll they'll they'll go to these these properties that have much better cover or lighter pressure, um and they'll they'll travel um and and totally relocate. But if it's a if it's a situation like last year it was really wet and a lot of those crops and everything stood uh stayed standing into November, early November, then you could still be in for a good hunt, especially if there's like corn and beans and good food like around those wood lots. Um. So last year I saw a lot of the deer hung around, you know, these hedgerows and these ditches and stuff. But if he's having trouble finding them in that particular wood lot, and maybe that that wood lots kind of like mature timber, there's not maybe not a real good food source or anything in there, or or just good thick betting you know, betting cover. Look outside of that, Look at the little the little features, the little drainages, the little ditches, the little creeks, um and and focus on those and really walk those, and that's where these deer will high and they will they will bed in those are behind the old abandoned farmhouse, um you know, in actually in the standing corn you know, where you see like a little island of trees or a soil where the farmer couldn't plant. These are the spots that these these bigger, mature bucks are hiding. Like I said, outside the rut. Every year i've shot down there has been from the ground. It's pretty interesting. And I haven't hunted that kind of country where it's so much eggland and just those small wood lots like that. But I know a guy talked to a few years ago that hunted something just like that same kind of area of Ohio we're talking, and he did something very similar to you, and that he only hunted fields, and the only hunted ditches, and he was using trag gear hunting on the ground, hunting ditches, just hunting along little creeks or whatever that run through or swales that run through standing corn fields. And he killed some really nice bucks like that. So I think that makes a lot of sense because the challenge, I think, as he alluded to, with a lot of those relatively small wood pots. Is either a the corn comes out and then there's these little tiny islands to cover, and it's really hard to penetrate into there at all without spook and deer out the other side. And so either the too open the whole deer or you spook everything when you go in there, or you know it's just so wide open that they never come out. So so yes, I really like your idea of of attacking it from a different angle. That makes a lot of sense. Here's one that's kind of, um, kind of similar. JB asks what terrain feature or piece of deer sign has brought to you the most consistent sightings or opportunities and is this different for different times of the year. Um. And when I hear this, the first thing I jumped to, if I had to pick something would be I'm probably gonna go with dope bedding areas because from late October through November, it's it's some thing that's universal. You can find that anywhere you go. Whether we're hunting in Nebraska or we're hunting in Montana or Maryland or Michigan or Ohio, there's gonna be doe betting areas somewhere Like that's a great starting point if you're hunting a new place and you're trying to figure it out, and if you're hunting anywhere within that pre rut to rut to post rut kind of time period, there's gonna be bucks that relate to doe betting ears. Like that's just a it's gonna happen no matter where you are, So it's a really good thing to to look at as a starting point there at least that's that's gets a hub, I know, like buck beds are hub, but doe betting airs are hub too, because where those doughs are for most of the day is where the bucks want to be um and you can figure those out relatively easily, probably more easily than you can in some cases find bucks because you know those doughs typically are bedded in spots, they are a little bit easier to get to. You don't need to go as far into nasty stuff and possibly spook stuff. So that's that's a piece of intel you can pick up with a little less impact and know that bucks will be relating to it in some way, you know, coming into it from a downwind side sent checking it trying to get in and around there at some point. So if I think back on a lot of my hunts, anything that's within that rut larger window almost always in some ways related to a doe betting area. So I think that would be my my first, my first crack at that one. Yeah. I think that's a great answer, um. That that if a guid did nothing else, you know, and only hunted the rut and hunted just doe betting areas, that's a great strategy, you know what I mean. That's I love doe betting areas specifically, you know, kind of like getting in there in the interior of the down wind side, favoring the downwind side a little bit. Um. And then you know those those those situations where you've got to maybe to dynamite doe betting areas that that are connected uh with with some sort of fun like kind of river bottom ground or you know, a creek bottom, or or maybe just a pinch where the woods narrows down. Another great one, um, I mean those those edges, those downwind edges and those funnels. I mean they probably almost almost every kill you could relate as somehow to some sort of edge or funnel, you know that kind of pinches down movement um or or encourages that type of movement. Um, there's no real there's no real. H I wouldn't. I wouldn't say a bucket bed because buckbeds are all different, you know. I mean, you got the ones in the swamps, and you got the ones you know, in the corn and in the marshes and everything. So I really like your answer as far as the best of the best, that's that's gonna that's gonna give you good action for nearly four weeks of the season. Yeah, Um, okay, well let me see here here one is more directed at you, but I might be able to give it, give something to it. Tim says that in a different podcast that you did with Jesse Coots, you mentioned that you had sought out Jesse's advice to work on a weakness of yours, which you had said to be hunting in the early season. Possibly, Uh, that was in the past. What weakness would you say you want to improve on now? If there is anything else that you're working on next? Um, I still feel like I a couple of years ago, UM, when I really kind of looked back over my hunting seasons and all the year I've killed. You know, there's certainly have been you know, quite a few killed during the rut, certainly quite a few and kind of that mid October time frame, and certainly quite a few in the early season, you know, and then there was like this this kind of gap you know later in the season. Um, you know, from maybe well, I mean really it was kind of like from mid November through the end of season there was just I had I have killed. So but it was like a handful you know, over you know, twenty some years. It just wasn't It just wasn't a time of the season where I was very effective. And a lot of that has to do with just not having, um, you know, areas that are are conducive to good late season hunting, and you know, a lot of it comes down to having good food available and that. And I realized that. So what I what I've tried doing the last few years was to start traveling, um during that time of year to some other states that maybe have a little bit higher deer density, UM, maybe a little bit lower pressure, maybe a little bit higher selection of older deer, and UM I've started to the last few years, I've killed some some really good like mature, like truly mature, like five six year old dear that I believe UM in the late season. So I've used that I've kind of left Michigan because it's just one of those I don't know, it's just one of those time frames I really struggle with here. But I think it has more to do with like the quality of the areas that I hunt and uh and lack there of of food. So I started traveling to those areas where it's just a little bit more target rich environment and you can you can kind of go and implement some of those strategies that you hear, you know, some of the guys that live in some of these other states that maybe your traditional big buck states are less pressure and you hear these strategies about post route or late season. Well, I've been able to go to some of these other states and actually put those practices to use and have some success. So that that's probably still my weakness and and something I'm still trying to get two better at and more experience with it. Honestly, I just needed more experience with that. UM. Like I said, in Michigan, a lot of times you're limited to these really smaller areas, and um, I mean if the deer there, they're not there, You're not gonna There's nothing you can do to kill a big mature buck there if they're not there. So so I went to areas where there's more of those and I can you know, track them down, basically on them down. Oh yeah, well, so much of this stuff is location dependent. When it comes right down to what you just said, I mean, you can't kill them if they're not there. And it is nice when you go to these different states, these different areas. It's it's very different than we deal with here in Michigan, as we both know. And uh, it's pretty fun when you find yourself in that kind of scenario. Yeah. Um, you know, I think one of the windows that I want to work on, as you started talking about times of year, UM, I found that I I really like the very very beginning of the season, early season. I really feel strongly about how I approach it. I feel like I've got a good thing nailed down, and I you know, if I've got some spots, I can get a crack of something. Um. And then again when it comes into pre rut. In the rut, I've got it. When it comes to late season. It's very spot dependent, like you just said, but I've always got at least one place that i know it's going to be pretty decent late season because I've got, you know, some control over it. So I've been able to find some local success on one of my late season spots. But for me, my wood window of weakness has probably always been um like mid October. You know. I usually I usually hit it hard the first few days of the season, and then once you get into that second week or even like the fourth day of October on until like the twenties of October, I have either I'd say two things. I said Number one, For a lot of years, I just was too risk averse at that time of year, and I was just worried, you know, the the October lull thing kept me from hitting stuff hard for a lot for a lot of years, and so I just stayed out for a long time. And then I've tried to as i've as I've kind of gotten more and more comfortable and seeing more and more examples of the fact that hey, yeah there's there's a shift there, but there's certainly still dear to be killed for sure. Um, I've started hunting more at that time of year, but I still probably have been tiptoeing. And a lot of that is because the spots that I end up hunting in many cases are the spots that I'm also still wanting to try to hunt in the rut, and so I'm not willing to blow it out. So I a couple of years I've said I'm gonna do this, and then stuff gets crazy or work or life for whatever, and I don't I'm doing it. But I want to dedicate more time from October four through October. I really want to get time and experience killing bucks from October four to within that window because I know it can be done, and I know it can be risky. So I just need to find spots where I'm okay swinging and missing a few times metaphorically um, and not screw up my rut plans. So that means traveling different places, or that means hunting some public stuff that I'm not as worried about. Um, But that's a window where I'd like to get more aggressive and and be more risk tolerant because I know I know people are doing it. I know I can do it. I just need to be willing to get in there and do it. So that's that's one of my areas I want to work on. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a that's that time of year that could be tricky and when really zeroing in you know on those those those buck beds that you have scouted and found in the past, that's like a great time to start bouncing around on those. And and I totally understand, like you know, in your situation, it's not something maybe you want to do like some of your your home turf. I guess um, you know, because you don't want to screw up maybe what could be the best time of year. But if you do, you know, for guys listening, you know, you know, take a page out of like Dan Infalts book where you know he has scouted so many of these buck beds, you know, over years and years now he's got this big library of buck beds and he can systematically hunt those on that you know, at the times of the year like this when uh that you're talking about, when the bucks aren't moving far, but they're in there, they're bedded somewhere, and you know, with some with some scouting and reading some fresh sign and maybe using a little truck cameras, you can zero in on where these deer are likely betted, and then it's just a matter of getting in into that window where you can encounter them in daylight and uh, that time of year. That's just I'm really kind of I'm doing a lot of in season scouting, but I'm I'm hunting a lot of those those buck beds that I've scouted that maybe I don't always know if it's a mature buck um betted there, or maybe I don't know for sure that you know he's bettered there, but I'll give it a sit because it was a really well used buckbed um And on other scenarios it might be where, hey, I'm still getting picture of this deer. I know he's in the area, he's likely betted here, and the conditions are right, the little drop in temperature, the winds perfect, I'm going in to hunt this particular bed. So that's kind of like how a lot of my hunts in that kind of small window you're talking about end up panning out. So this is something kind of related to that one. A little bits from a guy named Joe, And if I can paraphrase. His question here basically describes the situation where he's got a somewhat small property where if he leaves it alone, he usually going to have some pretty good action during the rut. But he has a new property owner one property away. It's a new neighbor who's coming and is now like a super serious deer hunter. Where previously nobody hunted it. Now there's a new deer hunter and he's planning food plots and putting in all this food and doing all this stuff, and now he's worried that there's going to be you know, this new competition one property away that you know, could pull this deer away. Where typically he knew that he would be the buck would probably still be there by October or November and he could hunt him. Now there's this new competition, all this new food. Um, how would you approach to Andy? Would you would you get more aggressive early or would you still, you know, play it safe and play on the rut. I don't know. It's a tough one. Yeah, that's tough one. I mean you'd let your I guess you'd let your you're scouting, which could be your you know, observation sits your trail cameras and and all that dictate what you're actually going to do. You know, if you're gonna I would never make that decision ahead of time. It would it would be a game time decision based on the information that I had in front of me, and I would try to seek that out through observation, sits, trail cameras, classing, whatever, whatever would be most conducive to that terrain that he's in. I don't know, um, but that's something that happens all the time. There's always factors that are changing, and if you want to stay consistent in an area that has higher pressure, you have to you have to constantly be evolving and adapting to that change. I mean there's spots that you know, there's spots that I've hunted um in the past that we're good that are just so crappy now I don't even bother. You know, you can't. You You've got to be constantly working at scouting new ground, accessing new ground, finding new areas so that when stuff like this does happen year, whole season isn't in shambles. You can just fall back on Plan B or C or d um. You know it takes a lot of time, It takes a lot of effort. But if you're getting locked, if you don't own the ground, if this isn't your own personal farm, and you get locked into one piece, man, I would feel so handcuffed by that because I don't have any single piece that can produce, uh, the kind of deer I'm after. Every year I have to go out and search many different areas to find one or two. And you know, if I didn't have those spots and constantly be looking for new ones like, I wouldn't have nearly the success that I do. So that's what that's what I would recommend. I would, you know, look for some real time information when season start picks up. Um, if the buck's there and you know where he's at, going after him. If if he's not, he's not moving much in daylight, you don't know where he's betted, and you think that you need to wait, you know, maybe towards that later part of October. Then wait, you gotta you gotta do you're scouting and make the best decision with the information you have in front of you. Would you ever swing for the fences earlier than usual? Though? If you if you felt like, hey, I know that. I mean it kind of is similar to the situation like when we're approaching opening day of guns season, when November is breathing down your neck, you know that, Okay, a few days from now, just gonna hit the fan. I'm gonna swing for the fences because I gotta get ahead of that competition. Well let's let's you know, so in this scenario where you know there's going to be like a bunch of guys, are more guys hunting now than usual, even if your most recent sign or even if everything that you would typically do doesn't tell you to go for quite that hard. If you know that, hey, the weekend's gonna arrive and I know these three guys are gonna be hitting it hard, will you push the limits a little bit because of that? Or still you're gonna stick to your guns? Yeah? I mean, if if it's high competition like that, yeah, I I swing for the fences. I'll go for the aggressive sit and and go for it early. Again, it's situation dependent, you know, is it are the guys hunting weekend guys and they always hunt by the field edge up front? You know, then maybe it's not something you need to worry about if the you know, the buck here after is you know, towards the back of the swamp. Again, You've got to analyze all that and make the correct decision. But there's some spots that I hunt like some a lot of the private pieces, almost all of them, um are shared by many other hunters, and I will swing for the fences right from the get go on a lot of these pieces, um, you know, I'll go. I'll dive into that best that best spot, that best betting area for an early season kill. If if there's let's say there's I don't have a beat on a different one, I will definitely do that because it only takes two or three days for these guys to screw up the whole thing for the rest of the season. So I've definitely done that in the past. But you just have to For me personally, I have um a lot of areas too to go back on. So I'm just constantly analyzing what, Okay, what's what's the best move for this situation. And it sounds like for that guy particular, like maybe that's like his only piece, and I would work on I would work on, you know, finding some good public and knocking on some doors and getting some backup just in case you know that happens, and you know, his fears come true and and his season kind of goes down the crapper. You know. Well, that's one of those things that you do better than almost anybody I know, which is just always having a backup to your backup, to your backup, to your backup. And that's just not easy to do. I know that that takes a lot of time, a lot of work to get all these different spots by permission or scouted out on public and to keep access. And uh, that's tough. Like I know from personal experience, I've lost a lot of spots. I don't enjoy knocking on doors. I hate dealing with that side of things, and so I'm constantly lacking. I constantly end up settling for too few places. And every year I tell myself I need to do better. And some years I do better, some years I do where some years I've got circumstances that just don't allow it. But um, but you consistently do a good job of that. And and if, if, if ever, I had to point to like some of the things that differentiate your success from a lot of people. That's definitely one of those um you don't ever let. And again it goes back to what we started with. It goes back to being overprepared. You're not gonna let fate or bad luck to tear you from success. Maybe one of your property gets blown up, but on another property someone kills the buck here after and the other property to take off the crops and just plow everything up. And that one's crap. But you've got a plan D in a plan E. And uh, I think that's an approach a lot of guys could benefit from. Yeah, that stuff happens every year in Michigan, like every single year. You know, the spots get blown up by other hunters. The buck I'm after it gets killed, you know, this one gets posted, this one disappears, you know, and you know, if it's a spot I have permission on, this guy gets permission or I lose permission. Every year something happens, So you have to stay ahead of the game. You have to stay ahead of it so that you know when things do like that, things like that happened, it just doesn't wreck your season. And so say, Okay, you know I'm gonna fall back on all these other backup plans and then you know, in the off season, I'm gonna get back to work and scout some new some new areas, and the cycle continues on and on. Right, that's right, all right, man, Well, I feel like I feel like I've kept you here for a long time. We've got a bunch more we still haven't answered. But I think we got to pull the plug. I had to pull the plug. Actually, we're gonna have to We're gonna have to try to do some more of these. And because this is this is fun, and I think we're covering some good stuff. So yeah, those are those are good questions and a few of them are kind of challenging to think about. So I had a good time. Yeah, me too. Well, I appreciate you taking time to do it, man, and let's get together, shoot your bows and scout some velvet bucks here soon. Huh yeah, let's do it all right, all right, that's gonna do it for us today. Hope you enjoyed this one. Thank you for listening. If you have more questions, be sure to post those over on social media, whether that's the Wired Hunt on Facebook page or Instagram account. I try to do this Q and a podcast once every month or two, and we'll try to tackle some of your questions again come up here soon, so be sure to do that. Good luck with all your summer hunting prep, and until next time, stay wired to hunt.

Save this episode