00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three forty nine and today we are back with our last bonus Turkey hunting podcast, and our guest is outdoor writer in turkey hunting extraordinaire Andrew Johnson, who's gonna be speaking with us and going deep into the world of turkey vocalizations. All right, welcome to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X. Today we're joined by Andrew Johnson. He's an outdoor writer and contributor to such publications as Turkey and Turkey Hunting Magazine and Mediator. And Andrew is going to help us examine six of the most common turkey vocalizations that every hunter should know, and we're gonna explore what they mean to a turkey, how to replicate them as a hunter, and when and how to do this in a hunting situation. So, in short, we're getting some great turkey calling advice and know how from a very well informed and experienced turkey hunter. I'm gonna say though, real quick before we move on. If you're enjoying all this bonus turkey hunting content and you've got some more turkey tags to fill, make sure you head over to the meat Eater dot com and check out all of our turkey hunting articles. We've put up dozens and dozens of new turkey stories and it's really good stuff, So head on over there to do some reading as soon as you can. So now with that out of the way, without further ado, let's get into our turkey chat with Andrew Johnson. All right with me now on the line is Andrew Johnson. Welcome the show. Andrew, Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate you taking some time to do this and being flexible with me. Off off air, we're just talking about I've had a newborn, just nuclear cataclysmic fit going on here in our household. So it's an interesting day, but I'm glad we can talk turkeys and you know what we're doing here, Andrew, is a series of bonus, short and sweet turkey hunting episodes here and Wired Hunt, bringing in various experts to talk about specific turkey topics here during the month of April. So for folks that aren't familiar with who you are what you do. Can you give us like the really short, sweet intro to who you are and what you what your turkey hunting experience or or background is. Sure. Um, well, I'm a South Dakota kid and I grew up hunting pheasants primarily, and then and that kind of evolved into deer hunting and turkey hunting, and all about ten or fifteen years ago, I got a job with a national turkey hunting magazine called Turkey and Turkey Hunting. And at the time I literally hadn't even a turkey is more or less killed one. So I basically stumbled through a couple of years of editing stories on turkeys and turkey hunting and also learning from some of the best in the business. And then I mean, I'm I'm sure you've heard it before and also people who have experienced it once once one rattles his head off on his way and you're hooked. So since that time, Um, yeah, I try to get out every spring and we're gonna make a run at it here in the Black Hills if things pan out this spring. No, it's good to talk about turkeys and the outdoors and thinking of brighter days ahead. Yeah, this is definitely a time when we need a nice distraction like turkey hunting more than ever. Yeah. So so that said, then you you've also done some writing for Meat Eater, and a recent article of yours really caught my attention about turkey vocalizations and the six most important turkey vocalizations to know about. So I thought maybe the way we could frame ourk quick conversation here is is just around what those six are, um, and just kind of walk through what what they mean, why they're important, how we as hunters should should use those calls. Possibly so so to kick it off, I guess you wrote in that article that the problem in many cases is that oftentimes when turkey hunters go out in the spring, they have these very one sided conversations. I think you rewrote specifically the quote here is the problem, however, is that springtime conversations often become one sided as hunter's hammer away without realizing the meaning of the calls they're using. So right out the gate, Andrew, why is that a problem? Why is an issue the hunters are calling away without knowing what the heck they're calls mean? Sure, Um, well, just like anything else, there there's context involved, and context is a relative term in the Turkey Woods. I mean, calls you use right away in the morning are different than in the afternoon. Um they vary by region. Um you know, different things like that where And I'm guilty. I've been guilty of this a number of times too. Is I'll pick up a new call and I'll sit in my basement and think, man, I sound really good, and as soon as I step into the Turkey Woods, I want to use it. I just want to hammer away. And that's not really how you want to go about it. I mean less is more. And that's why that's why I said it's a one sided conversation. Is we're more interested in in our calls and just hearing ourselves yelp and really sound good, rather than trying to ease into a conversation with those birds and then start the back and forth. How do you think about that kind like do you when you're out there in the woods and you are hearing how birds are responding to you, do you literally know you literally hear a hen yelp or hen do something or a bird gobble and you say, okay, that means X. Now I'm going to respond in this kind of way or is it a little more subtle in them? Sure, everything has to be taken into consideration. And now if you can and if you can see the birds and there's a boss hen in there, and and she cuts you off, you know, if you start yelping and she cuts you off and starts walking the other way, well you've got to change your strategy and figure out how you can get in with her first before you start trying to go after her gobbler. Whereas if if you are walking through and you're just kind of running and gunning and you hit a box call in a series of yelps and a gobbler blows your doors off, and and then every everything you throw at him, he's cutting me off. Well, then you know you're you're in business. So it's it's a give and take. And I've I've screwed up more hunts than I've had success that let me. Let me throw that out there, and you have to learn from those. And instead of just hanging your head and you know, walking back to the truck trying to figure out what went wrong, you have to look at what went right and see, well I got to this point, how can I carry it a step further? And a lot of that has to do with that conversation because they're telling you stuff not only with the calls they use, but with their body posture, how they're moving around, different things like that. Yeah, that's a great point. Let's let's drill down into then that aspect of what they're telling you, specifically with the vocalizations. The six main vocalizations you talked about were the yelp, the tree yelp, klucks and putts, cutting, purring, and gobbling. Let's start at the top of the yelp. What and I guess maybe do you have stuff with you to actually give us a sound of what you would say each of these sounds like? But I do. And UM. Also for for those in the audiance for a new I wrote this. UM. I used to work with Spencer. Spencer used to write for me with an outdoor publication. I ran here in the dakotas Spencer new art for need Eater, and he reached out and said, hey, I need a basic one on one piece on Turkey calls and vocalizations. UM. One thing I didn't include in there, but it's a it's an awful, useful resource is the n WTF has Wild Turkey Sounds on its website and it runs through all of them. And the way I learned how to do some of these calls, and I know the way some other people have learned how to do these halls, is by playing the audio files online and then trying to replicate them on a box call, slate call, mouth call, what have you? Um so, so for starters, um, I just wanted to throw that out there that because I'm not a good caller, I'm not. I know what to listen for and know those audible cues on when I can move and when I should approach or when I should back off. But as far as the calling goes, I mean, I'm average average at best. So is it fair though to say that that that's that's almost reassuring to hear and it's good enough and it's like anything else, um, a little bit of luck comes into play. But also, um so, understanding when you should use a call is almost as important as how it should sound, if that makes sense. Because you don't like our conversation, you didn't phone me up and say goodbye, Andrew, you know you're you're the first words out of your mouth, where, hey, how are you. It's kind of the same with turkey calls, because if you show up and just start cutting and yelping as loud as you can right away. I mean I can only imagine turkeys kind of looking at each other and saying, like, what is what is this dude or gal doing? I mean this that isn't how they communicate. It's out of context. So that's why we and I picked these six basic calls because they're pretty much universal, and they're the most I would say, the most used or most heard. Um, you know, biologists have found twenty nine different calls. Um. Some say they're thirties, some say there's twenty five. When you get the idea, there's literally dozens of calls turkeys use and in the woods every given spring, you're only gonna hear four or five, maybe six. I mean that's that's about the extent of it. But yeah, if you if you wanna, so, if if people want to a tangible resource, I would encourage them going to n w A t F dot org. But yeah, I have some calls here that can show you how poor of a caller I am as well as um, you know, a proof that being average at this is okay. Yeah, Like I said, I like the fact that it's okay just to be average and you can still get it done when you have this more holistic understanding of knowing the context, knowing what it means, knowing when to apply it. Uh, that's that it's really great to know. So, so can you give us a really quick example. Okay, what's a yelp? And then talk me through the context of that, what it means, and what we should be thinking about when using as a hunter. Sure, yelp, it's basically kind of the foundation for the rest of the calls. It's the most generic turkey call there is, you know, and that I could have combined yelps and tree helps into one because essentially they're the same thing. But a yelp is a yelp. It's a two note call um. A lot of people, especially with mouth calls, have trouble making the first note of the call, which is typically a higher pitch, breaking down into lower pitch. So I have a slate call in hand um and it's an acrylic or glass call um. But I chose it because when I dragged the striker slowly across the surface, he'll be I won't make the yelp at first. I want to make the two notes first, so it'll be a drawn out call where you hear the high pitch to low pitch. So let's see if I can get it to where you can hear it will be hide to low. So it's almost like a teenager whose voice is cracking, just in the opposite direction of that kind of puts it into context. So so did that come through? Okay? Right on? So now that you hear the hide to low and with kind of that break, um, now you add the rhythm and tone and context to it. Because again, and know what you're trying to sound like a love sick hand like you're this is going against their nature. In nature of the gobbler, gobbles and hens go to him, so you're trying to coax him along. And you know, I hate to say it, but it's like you're saying, hey, big boy, I'm over here, you know what I mean. So a little tone, a little rhythm, and a little cadence that's about all it is. And so this is basically that wooing call, letting know like, hey we're over here. Um. Now, when you're hearing that, now, so the opposite, you like to make that call, try to bring him to you. But what if you hear turkeys out there yelping um, knowing okay, there's some hens out there, they're yelping. What does that tell you? And how does that change your plans when you hear another real live bird doing that? Sure, I try to match the hens. And I think that's a common sentiment a lot around a lot of turkey hunters. Is I'm using the same language, so to speak, she's using. So if she's cutting me off, you know, as I yelp, I'm gonna cut and I'm gonna cut her right right off the next time she makes a sound trying you're trying to spar with her and raise her curiosity and raise her territorial awareness because turkeys are territorial, man, I mean they they just are. And hens are that way too. So if you can if you're calling to a group of birds where boblers flocked up, you're not really calling to the gobbler. You're calling at the hens. You're trying to work your way in with them. Now, the reason I chose this acrylic call also is it is it has a little bit of rasp. But if I want to play kind of a more submissive tone, I have another call here from UM. It was a birthday present from a buddy of mine from CNS custom calls. But it's a a slate call. Now there isn't as much rasp, which I mean, what I've learned out here in the prairie birds that I hunt a lot is I'm always hunting birds that are flocked up, and so I have to deal with the hen a lot. If I'm more submissive, I found it gives me a fighting chance. If I try to be as bossy as her in the wide open where there's where they know, I mean, they're looking around and they know exactly what's going on. You're not hidden by ravines and hardwood trees. You're you're exposed. But if I go soft without rasp and kind of more subtle and and try to almost be, you know, the little sister to that him, I've had more luck. So here's a a different slate call and you'll be able to hear that. It's not as raspy. So it's a little bit higher, not nearly as I mean, the sound will carry because of the calls make, but without hardly putting any pressure with the striker. I don't want I don't want to get raspy or boss at all. I want to be soft and subtle. I was going to ask you mentioned a little bit earlier the fact that there's there's a certain level of importance with how you start a conversation. You know, the context of how you begin conversations and them, etcetera, etcetera. Um, in the Turkey world, where does it yelp fit into a conversation? Is it okay to start with the yelp or should you ease into a little bit more? No, yelp yelp is a great way to start the conversation. Um, you just don't want to. You know, if you have birds roosted, and you know you're set up within a roosting location, you you don't want to start yelping and just hammering away for the birds are even awake. This is a call that you would work into with tree yelps, which is the second um call that everyone should know. And it's just a very very soft, subtle call used when birds are still on the limb, and it's really nasally because they make it almost with their beaks closed. As they're waking up, you know, trying to sort out the pecking order for day, and gobblers are goblin trying to click their hair. Um hands are answering. If you ease into the conversation with a trio, it's much more realistic than cutting and yelping and just coming in guns blazing, if that makes sense. Can you give us an example of that? Uh of a tree yol trio um? Typically with a mouth call works a lot better. I don't have a mouth call with me. You can make it with any call, friction call or a mouth call um. But it's it's soft and subtle, and it's very leading or almost how would I say, it's almost pleading. So it's just very soft. If you were in the woods and then you know the birds are still on the limb, I mean they're awful hard to hear the way it is at the winds blowing at all and your your upland you're not going to hear it. What's your perspective on calling then on the roost? So is it just tree yelps or are you gonna are you gonna get into regular yelp and then shut up and then not talk until they come down. There's a lot of debate around how much to call it's when I first, you know, when I first started turkey hunting. I think, like a lot of people, it's so tempting that every time they gobble back to you when they're on the roost, and they do many times, you just want to keep them talking and the names go and go and go. And I found that it was not such a good idea eventually. What's your take on that, I'd agree completely. And that's what you just described as a perfect example of how that conversation becomes one sided and you become tone deaf to what's really going on. Um Less when the birds are on the limb, less is more, and I don't I don't make any kind of sounds until I hear a bird gobble or hear a hand yelp, whether it's from a roost next door or the roost I'm hunting, or you know, way off in the distance. I want that that audible queue that it's okay to start making turkey talk. And then if I'm using decoys, um I will throw out a tree yelp, just basically saying ham over here. Just a soft indicator, you know, and if they hear it, great, If not not a big deal, it is what it is. Sometimes they're going to hear that call. Sometimes they're not, based on the terrain and wind and everything else. But it's okay to throw one or two route, but by rule of thumb, I wait for them to make the first move. Um. There, if your decoys are in a spot where those rooster birds can see you in the morning or even mid morning or mid afternoon, Um, it's okay to throw out a yelp just to kind of draw their attention, But then you have to kind of let them make the next move. So once that happens, then you throw a little yelp. They gobble back. Um, how long will you carry on from that point? Or is it? Is it then done? Now? You know? Okay they nail here. Now wait until they come down. Um, if we're talking still on the roost. If they're still on the roost, I um if if I put a tree out out and they and I if Now it's different. If if I have a gobbler roosted alone and I know he's alone, it's rare. But if I know he's alone, then I'm I'm gonna try and get him with anything I can before another hand comes into player, before he joins up another group of birds. But if he's roosted or multiple gobblers are roosted with some hens and everything, I mean, I'm playing by their rules. They have an established packing order, and I just kind of want to fit in. So if he cuts my tree, yelp off. And if I cluck and he gobbles, if he's gobbling at a cluck before I you know, before he's off the limb, I mean, we're we're in business. But if it's all quiet on the western front, I just let it sit. If he's given me an answer and I know he knows where I'm at, I'm gonna let him make the next move. But if if he's if he is incessant, if he's I mean, if he's tuned up to the point where you could sneeze and he's gonna gobble, I mean, I keep going after him because I don't want I want him to stay focused on me, because other other hens are going to hear this. They're going to hear him and move in, and I want to I wanted to be a one on one phone call. From that point you mentioned clucks, which is your next vocalization. Clucks and putts? Can you talk talk us through what those mean? What they sound like? Yeah, clucks and putts, man, I mean they're hard to know the difference, um, which is also why I kind of said you have to take body language into consideration. If you can hear a bird clucking's I think I wrote something like, it's like a Marco Polo. You ever play that game when you're growing up, you know, you say, it's just their way of keeping tabs on one another, And that's how it was explained to me. And that's I mean, hands are making noise all the time. They're pourring and clucking all the time, whether you can hear it or not. It's just constant. So it's a it's an every day, I mean every minute basically part of their conversation while they're walking around. So it's very natural to add into the conversation from a hunting perspective, just kind of reminding them him over here. And it's just a short stacato note that is basically like a locator calm. So the bad thing is is an alarm put if dangers around or if you get busted. Sounds very similar, but a bird running away making the sound as opposed to a bird just picking its way through an alf alpha field. The context again is important because that will tell you what kind of call it is. So another way to look at it, cluck is how we say the word dude. Like you know, you can inflect the word dude about forty different ways. You know, dude, dude, dude. You know there's all these and we all know what they mean. Turkeys know the meaning. So when when you're throwing out clucks, you want to make it sound like, hey, I'm over here, I know where you're at. And then if they respond to that, then clucking is a way to lead into cutting and more yelping to carry on the conversation. So that's something you can give us a little example of two yeah on a on a um, it's really easy to do. It's much easier than a yelp from my experience, on a mouth call, but on a slate call or even on a box call, you can replicate a cut um. First of all, for anyone listening who hasn't ever run a friction call, whether it's a box call or or a pottent peg call or a slate call, the striker or the friction surfaces should never leave contact from one another, so you're not moving the striker, picking it up and replacing it back on the surface. It stays in contact the whole entire time. Same thing with the paddle. On a box call, it stays in contact with the box the entire time, whether you're going back and forth or whatever. But on a on a pot call or a slate call, a cluck is is really easy to make. It's just short, staicago note, and you can lead into it with a yelp or whatever. It's a cluck. That's about all. It is. Short and sweet. Short and sweet louder is kind of a dude, you know, and a softer is just a hey, I'm over here, dude. So that's kind of how I picture it in my mind. Yeah, I like that. I was going to transition to if if you've got the yelp, which is kind of sweet talking a little bit, and the clucks and puts are kind of like the dude right here, then the next thing I feel like, if we're transitioning through our conversation is cutting, which, at least from the way I've understood it has always been a much more aggressive situation when you get to that. Um, Am I writing that. And if still, can you give me a little more context with how you think about it. Yeah, cutting isn't a normal part part of the conversation. I think that might be a way to phrase it. Cutting is um definitely next level as far as the conversation goes. Um, if you have a gobbler wound up, or if you're sparring with a hen and she's working, you can tell she's coming towards you, whether you can see her or just hear her, I'm cutting is a way to take it to the next level. Um. And I finally pulled up the article so I could read, so I could read exactly what I wrote. But it's Yeah, it's an intense series a louder ratic clucks. There's no rhythm, there's no rhyme or reason. Um, but it's you know, you can cluck. I'm on a box call now, so you can cluck like cluck lead into cuts like that. Um. And if yeah, if they respond to that, you are you're in business. I mean, this is this is a closing the deal type of hall. Or if gobblers are hung up and they're they're fired. Up, but they're just not committing past that, you know, the four yard mark. If you're talking about ethical shotgun range or whatever, you're comfortable or bow ranges. M if if you want to lead them a step further, I mean, it does not hurt to try cutting. And if you know, if if they're posture changes and that kind of scares them off, then and you read that body language, Okay, now I back off. I go back to what was working and got him to this point. But on a on a slate call, you can just cut and lead into a series of yelps and they go. So that's that, that's breaking the hang up. It's an added degree of realism that can um you know, it can either fire bird up to make him across that threshold that he won't break from, or it can help engage that boss hand even more. Yeah. So that's like the aggressive approach to dealing with a hung up bird. I feel like the next vocalization is a little bit like the passive approach, where sometimes I thought, Okay, I gotta get I really gotta get after himse I'll start cutting. The flip side is sometimes I'm thinking, you know what, Okay, I'm just gonna I'm gonna lay back now and I'm just gonna shut up completely, or I'll just do a little bit of light purring just so you know something's still here? Is that? Is that? How you ever look at it? With this next vocalization, which is purring as I looded. Yeah, And purring is a close contact call. If a bird's yards away on a ridge, he's not going to hear you purring, right, So this is close quarters combat, just as another you're trying to put one more nail in that bird's coffin. Purring a lot of guys purrs and cluck clucks together. I mean it's a lethal lethal combo. Again, because birds do it all day long. I think it um one way I might try to do this is, Yeah, on the n w t F site that I mentioned earlier, they actually have a ten second clip. It's a cluck of per and I'm going to crank my volume up on my computer to see if you can hear this. Oh yeah, yeah. And so it's a I mean, turkeys eat all day long, and when they're just strolling through the woods, it's a it's a territorial call, and it's also a call of contentment and so you you're going to pull that out when again there's something close. But they need to just have that reassurance. Yep, everything's all right. I'm in my especially if I'm using decoys and if I have a mouth call in um, purring and clucking on a mouth call. Man, it probably took me three or four years before I had something that sounded somewhat like a turkey. Um. But it's if you can, you try to use it with a mouth call, because turkeys are that close. You don't want to be running a striker across the slate or having to adjust your hands to get back on the gun. But it's yeah, it's it's just reassuring them that, yeah, I'm a turkey. I'm over here. Um, if you want to keep coming this way and check me out, you're more welcome. Yeah. So the next vocalization. Then we've talked through a lot of calls that the hens are making, but the last one is gobbling. So of course we we know what a turkey gobble sounds like. That's the sound we're all turkey hunting for. That's the thing that gets us, gets us amped up and excited. Um, but talk to me about how you interpret gobbles when we when we hear turkey gobble, Are there different types of gobbles that make you think differently? Or is the timing or cadence or how often they're doing it? Are there anythings like that that you're listening for that then change the strategy. Yeah, sometimes gobbles, I mean it's the only true mating call. All these other calls turkeys used throughout the entire year for different purposes. There isn't a hen call out there that's strictly for mating. Gobbling is strictly for mating. And I think when you're in the woods, you can you can tell if if it's a gobble, if for gobble, If a tom is just gobbling on the roost, just a gobble, I mean it will ring out, you'll hear it. But when he's all fluffed up and fired up at fifty yards or even a hundred yards, you can tell there's just there's more guts to it, if that makes sense. It just it's throatier and deeper, and when they mean business and when they're fired up, it's at a different, a different level, you know. Do do you ever make gobbles? Is that something that's in new repertoire. I've I've tried, and years ago I had one of those gob gobbles shaker things, you know and shake it. Um, but I I personally don't use them. Um. I will use other sounds in addition to calling, like all scratch leaves and all take my hat off and beat it against a tree to make like wing wing beat sounds like I'm flying off the roost in the morning. Um. Different audible cues like that. You can. It just enhances your your setup or your calls. But gobbling, no, I leave that to the gobblers. I've tried. I've tried to do it on an out call and every other way, and I I don't know. I don't sound anything like a turkey. Yeah. So so this is um obviously imperative stuff to understand when it comes to getting out there and talking with He's understanding some of the stuff you cover. It's great. What would be if we're going to close it down? Because these are much shorter and sweeter than my usual episodes. I feel weird shutting down so soon because it's so great, But um, as we're trying to stick to what would be that I mean, having edited Turkey and turkey hunting. Having talked to so many great turkey hunter has been out there so much, yourself, probably been with some people that are still learning maybe as well. What's that thing that so many people are screwing up? What's that mistake that is haunting so many of us when it comes to calling or understanding calling? Um, if we could correct that one thing, what would that be? Sure? Um, without a doubt, it's calling too much people. Um, the best turkey hunters that I've hunted with, and I've I've had, I've been blessed with some of the greats you know, Eddie Salter, Alex Outledge, Ted Brown, Chris Parrish, Steve Stolts, Brian Lovett. These guys. The biggest thing that as in their back pocket is that they have that most other people don't, his patience. And they will wait out a bird until the cows come home. They won't say, they won't say a word because if that, if that turkey is down and on the ground and moving around and he isn't spooked and he's not running the other way, there's no reason to try and you can try to coax him. I mean, sometimes we only have an afternoon to hunt so you're kind of forced to make the action happen. And I love taking the fight to a bird, and sometimes I'll just crawl after him because I'm out there to kill him, right, I'm not out there to watch him, even though I love doing it, but I'm I'm out there to kill him, and sometimes you have to force the issue. But the really good Turkey hunters, even though the world champion callers and they have world titles on the all, um, calling isn't the number one thing in their arsenal. I would say it's patience and understanding how and when to move and where the set up they understand. Those put you in a place to call, and then you can use calling if if needed. If that makes sense, it does make sense. And I'm going to ask you an impossible question, but I'm hoping for some kind of guideline. Um. I think people listening will say, Okay, that makes sense, I shouldn't overcall. But how do I know when I'm overcalling? Is there anything any guideline or something to keep in mind for folks to help them know when they're at that line when they're okay, I should probably stop, or this is maybe this is too much like anything to help people there. The only thing I can think of is if you if you can see turkeys, you know, if you're if you're calling to a god or if you're calling to a hand up gobbler, where essentially you're talking to the hens. You have to read their body language. I mean, so if you call too much and those birds start working away from you, or or if you call once and and that hen takes off the other way, that'd be a good indicator to me, Hey, I'm not going to call and then the next day, like if if I live to hunt the next day, where I don't booger them out of there too bad, I understand the next time I go in, I don't need to be calling. I need to set up. And that's where scouting and understanding how terrain and habitat and food sources come into play, and hopefully you understand their daily travel pattern and use that to your advantage. Calling calling more than anything, is just a way to seal the deal. So if you can see turkey, if you can see turkeys, I mean, reading their body language can help you understand how much you call. If you can't see the birds, man if if you have a gobbler responding and he's cutting you off at every step of the way. Um, or even if if he gobbles once and he double gobbles and cuts off a yelp. Sometimes I don't want even call anymore. He knows where you're at, you know, so you don't ever want to overdo it. I don't think there is such a thing as undercalling a bird, if that makes sense. I think people screw up hunts because they call too much. But I've never heard it where someone says I should have called more. You know what I mean? So tread lightly less is more, and just you gotta take everything into consideration. I have no other birds around you are talking. It wouldn't be a good idea to be the loudest voice out there. Yeah. Context, I feel like a moral of this story is taken to account the context of the situation. What's going on, what the other birds are doing? That's really helpful. Yeah, well, Andrew, this is this has been great. I appreciate you walking us through this and given every one a primer on Turkey vocalizations. Yeah, and there's plenty of resources out there people should use. I appreciate um the call. Hopefully someone can take something we talked about and put it to good use. Yeah, this is more tread lightly and shoot him in the head. That's all I got. That's all you need to know, all right, Andrew, Well, thank you and good luck with your turkey hunt in the spring. All right, Mark, thanks for the call. All right, and that is going to do it first today. I hope you enjoyed this one. I hope your turkey hunts are going well so far this year. Man, it feels good to be out there here in those gobbles. I've been taking my two year old son out without a weapon. We're just going out there to try to call him in and it's just been a blast. And I hope you're enjoying some of those same great experiences out in the wild. So until next time, thank you again for listening, and stay wired to hunt.

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