00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number three and today we're chatting late season deer hunting with Brett Joy and we're talking big Woods bucks and how to kill a buck in December. All right, welcome to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X. Today. As I just mentioned, we are focused on late season deer hunting. I've got a great guest for you today. This is Brett Joy. He's been on the show a couple of times on ret Fresh Radio and several years of Go came on to talk to us about his unique approach to hunting bucks in the Northeast. He hunts in New Hampshire and some other areas in the region, but has also traveled across the Midwest and West chasing white tails all over the place. So he's got a very diverse um set of experiences to pull from and he gets the job done. He's killed a lot of really nice mature bucks, but he just recently killed an absolute unbelievable buck in December in the mountains of New Hampshire, deep deep snow, brutal conditions, and he got it done. I wanted to see what we could learn from this experience, what we could learn from that story that might help all of us with our own hunts here in the late season. So we're gonna break down that story in detail, and then along the way, I'm going to kind of pick at him to try to learn some bigger, higher picture lessons. We're gonna talk through ideas that can help you on public land. We're gonna talk through ideas that can help you find deer in bigwood situations. But we'll also look at different concepts and ideas that will apply to you know, agg Land, how you might be able to have success in the late season. You know, in the Midwest or the South. There's somewhere else too. So we cover a lot on the tactical side. And then also, and I found this particularly interesting, we spent some time talking about the mental side of hunting in the late season. Right, you've been hunting for months, possibly at this point, maybe haven't failed a tag yet. Things are getting a little bit glum. You're struggling. One am I ever going to kill anything? This year. Am I gonna have an empty freezer this year? That can wear you down, that can leave you filling a little bit rough. So we talked about how to deal with that, how to push on through those long cold hunts and uh and make it through the end of the season. So that is what we discussed today. It's a lot of fun. I enjoyed Brett's conversation and his story and his experience, and I think you will too. Al Right back with me now for his second appearance on the regular wire Hunt podcast and now multiple times on radio, We've got Brett Joy. Thank you for joining me again. Brett, Well, thanks for having me Arc. I'm I'm glad you had me back. Well, you keep on putting big deer on the ground and it keeps on catching my attentions. So you're doing something right. Uh. I got to tell you congratulations on this recent deer. I appreciate it. So it actually been a little bit since since I'm connected with a big one up and after some you know, shout pretty good deer in the past, and I'm kind of getting really picky and trying to hunt the oldest deer I can find. And when you do that and you're one after one to know, particularly animals, sometimes doesn't happen for every year, and it's all you can get a lot of tags, and that's kind of deal with this one. It's been I think since two sixteen song since I shot a buck, so three years coming. Well. I can certainly relate to that whole transition to getting really picky and how that can lead you not feeling tags, because the last few years I've had I've had some situations like that, like this year, I've been after one deer in Michigan and because of it, I've passed on more really nice Michigan Bucks than I ever have. And I keep on bouncing back and forth with am I crazy? Am I stupid? Or is this is this worth it? Um? Yeah, you know, I think a lot of that comes from just the hunting. I guess community. UM, I'm kind of the same way. And if you're okay with eating a tag, which I think probably both of us are at this point, you know, there's nothing wrong with it, and there's nothing wrong with not wanting you at tag as well as people are different places and get different things out of it, and for some guys, they just start off to particular animal. They don't they don't care if they eat at tag and you know, they're just doing what they're doing. And that's the the I think, the unique, some beautiful thing about what we know is everybody takes something different out of it and it's in it for a different reason. And we should all, you know, encourage each other when we decided to shoot the first year we see or you know, we go three years waiting on you know, eight year old bucks. So yeah, very true. You gotta hunt your own hunt. That's what I've been telling myself, and not worrying about what other people think or what other people's expectations are or anything like that. If it makes you happy and it's legal, do it. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I'm hoping that I'm gonna get some of this. I don't know what you'd call it, like a little bit of your good luck rubbing off on me because you've been after one deer for a while and you got him finally. I've been after one deer for a while and I haven't got him yet. So if there's anything you can pass along, or if you can send the lucky pixie dust or something through the air, waves to help me do the same thing. I would appreciate that very much. Well, it's funny you said that because the week ago looking from the luck you had last year, because I haven't had much go right now three season until Saturday. So, um, you know, I just that's so it is. You know, I can you can have for a hot streak and go into care and it seems like you can't not shoot a big deer, and then it seems like you can't do anything right even though you're doing all the things you usually do and and you know, being disciplined and persistent, and just sometimes it happens and some time it doesn't. H I think if it happened and it was predictable every time, then it would be as it's a fun or at least it's challenging, and it wouldn't have the same a word at least. So yeah, you wouldn't appreciate as much. Yeah, absolutely not. So so okay, we should just get into this story of this year's long journey. Um, But I want to I want to ask you to bear with me because I want to. I want to hear your story. But I also think we can use this story as it's almost a template to talk about how to kill a good buck in December too, because you just killed an incredible deer in New Hampshire in a relatively unique situation compared to a lot of people. Um, and you did it in December. So I want to hear the story. I want to hear from the very beginning, from years ago, how this progressed, and then throughout though I'll probably poke and prode you to then take a step back and talk about, Okay, how would you approach this kind of late season hunt if you were in Ohio, or how would you approach if you were somewhere else? Or what what other things do we think about during December? How would we scout in December? And we'll kind of we'll bounce back and forth between your specific story and high level advice so that someone can listen to this and and get some great lay season helped to. Um. Are you game for that idea and that plan? Sure? It sounds like a plan? Cool? All right? Well, then take me back in time into New Hampshire. Where was this four years ago? Maybe when the story started? How how does the story start? So so as I've gotten I guess deeper into I guess you could come a hunting through um and hunting more. I've I've begun to appreciate the challenge um of hunting in the Northeast and particularly in Hampshire. When I was younger, I was kind of bummed out about it and I used to get really frustrated and don't get around kilts a nice box. But man need stuff to work so hard for him, and so I will to the bid last a lot and that's you know, a good success, and U fell in love with that. But then I just really, as I got older, started to appreciate these older animals. They were just so so challenging to kill. So I've kind of, I guess you could say, reshifted my focus back to you know, my homestate in Hampshire and in some of these older deer that are just such a challenge, and I really now enjoy that, I think more than anything. Um. People are thinking I'm crazy because a lot of the you know, guys that are after big deer and this area will travel out of state to hunt. Um. Not not that they don't hunt locally, they do, but you know, they take their replication days and at to Illinois or Ohio or Ahio or wherever, and I was kind of took the opposite approaches the last few years, and and with that, I've also tried to find some new areas to hunt and kind of stretch my legs a little bit. We have pretty much endless opportunity for for hunting around here as far as you know acreage in areas. Most of the land is open to public hunting for the most part. So UM kind of all started with me wanting to get away from other hunters a little more than I have been. And I do live in a pretty rural area with moderate hunting pressure. But I really like the feeling of being alone in the woods and knowing there's no one within a mile of me, Like I really enjoyed that, UM, and being able to pursue a pick your animal with, you know, uninterrupted or or getting messed up by anybody else. And I don't like sitting in a stand listening to a leaf blower or kids or dogs barking, or highways. So so that's been kind of my focus. A few years back, I just said I'm gonna kind of look for some some bigger areas of woods public land, and uh, you know, some mountain of stuff. I love the mountains, and we do have a fair amount of mountains, not like you know Colorado or Rocky mountains, but we give have some some pretty good bumps out here in the So Yeah, I started to do that, started to scout some new areas and and I found a few areas that looked really good. And um started running some cameras and uh, I found one particular. I was getting pictures of some good some good deer and this deer was one of them. Um, can hit pause? I don't know, I want to hit pause a little bit. And we talked about this years ago when you were on the podcast for the first time, but just for people that haven't heard, can you just elaborate a little bit more on how you try to pick a spot like this and then and you know, how you're thinking about running those cameras to help you identify where a hot spot might be, because when you're talking big swath of public land and this is big wood's habitat mostly right, Um, it's kind of intimidating for a lot of people to try to break that down and pick an area to focus on. So how what did your process look like? Yeah, it's extremely intimidating. Actually, um, you're just going to dive into it. But I think I've kind of refined that process over the years. And where I'm not now is I look for First, I try to get away from any population center. And this is not everything that I tell you is nothing that hasn't been said before by other guys. But UM, I really try to get away from cities or bigger towns because there's gonna be more hunters than those areas, and you know, the the land adjacent to those particular population centers are gonna get more precious. So I look for a reason of human density. UM. Once I find that, then I'm looking for big tracks September um that are relatively unaccessible, UM unless you're willing to, you know, take a boat or a canoe in a mile or walk over mountains or you know, it's just something of that nature. So I really like to be I say, minimal a mile from a road. UM. I prefer to be like two soup plus miles and um one and I like to get home. So I mean a lot of this. I could say base level or most towns around here between I'd say, like, you know, five hundred and a thousand feet. I like to be up you know, undred two thousand feet in elevation. And once you get in that deep um away from a population center, and then you get up high, you start to lose a lot of the hunting pressure and the company, which is what I like. UM. Once I have narrowed those particularly was gone, and you may narrow that down, but you're still looking at five thousand acres UM. I'm looking for really free things and looking for any sort of early succession growth. Is the high stemp count um. Those areas have been selectively cut or logged um or clear cut even uh. Then I'm looking for swamps. Swamps always seem to have maturity running around him UM. And then the last thing looking for is like topography like pinch points um. And so during the summer, I'm gonna look for really that really succession growth, so cuts, clear cuts, selective cuts, whatever is gonna you know, have hot quality forms for these bucks. Over the summer, I'll run cameras there and hopefully getting a pretty good idea if there's anything in the area. And then you know, I start to transition those cameras to scrapes and you know, swamp, edges and stuff like that. And then really, um, where I think you can really figure out what's fun on the area is during the rut um And then I'm gonna run cameras on pinch points and that's a lot of time based on topography or at that may be created by a clear pot, mature timber, mature swamp, or vice versa, any areas that are gonna you know, concentrate gear activity anymore. I really like to almost run the cameras a whole year in advance of when I've planned to hunt a d or or an area, and I think you learned so much and you really leave the information you you know about the year before in your next year's pursuit of a particular animal. So that's kind of how I've been doing it. Okay, So that's your game plane when you're heading into an area like this. This is two thousand fifteen when this story, yeah yeah, fifteen is when I started scouting this particular area heavy um ran a couple of cameras, but nothing crazy. I actually traveled a lot out of state that year, so I can spend a ton of time in the well, yeah, in the woods in New Hampshire. I don't think that particularly. I had like think like four four states, so I didn't spent a time of time, but I had the idea that I was going to streat this areas in thousand and sixteen. So yeah, the first year, I got a picture of this deer, and there's a couple of others within two thousand and sixteen, Okay, so take me from there. So yeah, I got basically there was a few good deer in this particular area. Um. Of course, when I I want to stress for people that aren't familiar with the type of stuff I'm hunting, I'm not talking like a hundred acre farm. I'm talking a mountain range that incomes is maybe uh you know, ten to twenty tho acres and several miles. So I may have a picture of a deer here and then him three miles away, but that's kind of the same area. So it's it's kind of blows your mind to see how much these deer moves. So anyway, in this bigger area, I was getting pictures with a few good bucks. Um and this year is one of them where there's two bucks that were looked a lot older, and we're frankly bigger um that year. So I kinda I didn't front that deer. I don't know that it would have shrunt up if I got the opportunity, and may have. UM, I wasn't sure. I thought maybe he was a four year UM. But I didn't really target him, but I ran cameras and did learn a fair amount about him. That particularly ended up really hunting another buck and ended up killing him. Um. And so that year it was just kind of a learning year. Um. He was on my radar, but not right at the top, but just was aware of his presence and knew that maybe if he got older would be a lot a lot better, dear and just warmature and the one maybe one that I wanted to really target. Keep it going. Then from there, so you kill this other buck? Um? How did the progress? So I killed this dear? Um? No, it was a great buck. Um. I mean that buck was a five year old buck. And uh, he was in a little different area than where this near was hanging out. But their range is definitely overlapped to some degree. UM. So you know, that year goes great. I started to learn more about this area and realize that there's a couple other good bucks I'm interested in in there and um the next year, UM, this deer was really I'd say it was pretty difficult two pinned down. I had maybe some pictures of in August randomly, and then a few in October. UM, but this deer just seemed like he was all over the place. He had a big range, and he need like to travel, so I never could get an idea of exactly what he was doing. I definitely would have shot him if heeling the opportunity. In two thousand seventeen, UM, I think he was I'd say five or made me six that year um uh so, but I just I was after another year that was definitely older. Um. And that year so was I after move more over there and cameras are looking Yeah. But I just felt like I had a better shot this older, older deer um, and he was more consistent. So I hud him mostly um until finally in late November UM hunting partner rosster Burgs and I mostly it was just like you actually, uh, we ran a camera in this big trail that came off his mountain headed down into this bottom to it like about a thousand acres of swampy area more or less kind of bottom land, and um, we noticed a trail several times which was kind of an area we wouldn't expect a big buck to move in daylight. And uh, but we it was actually Ross's idea to throw our camera up on that trail, and we threw it up and would check up here out likely through the season. But we're going to hunt one day and we're gonna go up the mountain and we checked it and we had the big deer. I was after Old Years Africa and this buck in daylight crossing basically an old blogging road. Um, kind of going back and forth, back you know, up top to the high ground and back down to the bottom. And that was kind of a really key piece of information that I realized, Okay, this these deer in this particular and particular this buck is vulnerable in you know, on this particular area during November. So um, that kind of really and I hadn't had a daylight tookture of this gear ever until I don't think, no, not ever until that particular time period, and it was you know, he was moving in midday and stuff. So it's like, okay, this is good. You know, I have a shot at this buck, So I don't have the rest of November that year in two thousand seventeen as long as after the other one I was after. Um, I didn't see or kill either of them. I think I was learned that information a little bit late to capitalize on it. So I really tried to plan to use that information last year in two deer and so and so start to interrupt, But you it sounds like, based off what I'm hearing and something that I've personally seen a lot, that these deer will often have similar tendencies year after year, and that they'll use a certain area in a generally similar way this year as they will next year. They're doing something for a reason, and then you can capitalize on that if you've got that intel from previous years. Right, Absolutely, that's really what I tried. I mean, you know, if if you're trying to I mean, I don't get me wrong. I do run cameras and try to react to what I get on cameras. But when you're untying areas that are relatively inaccessible, you can't just run in quick and check a couple of cameras. You know, it might take how the day or all day to do so, so a lot of the times you can't really rap quick enough um in the big woods to camera and tel to actually capitalize on that movement. So you have to kind of bank it and then plan for it the next year. So exactly exactly what you're saying. And you know, it's not it's not like I think he's gonna be there that day, you know, the next year, but you can at least you have a good game plan and you have you know, it may be the fact that here may be the case that he's doing that again. So this was a case for that year. So um yeah, continued continued with that and then uh really last year, um because I was starting to really notice him and and he was kind of like real at the top of my list, I started to maybe shift them a little more cameras into the areas where I got pictures of him. I started getting a little more frequently, got him in velvet a lot more. Um. I got him, uh September October, so I had a pretty much strength layer. I figured out basically core area of this buck at this point. Um, So I was feeling like I had a pretty good shot in November, but him and Also that other older deer was still there again last year. So they were like my top two bucks, and I don't know which one really was the top one, but they were both there. And I was fortunate up to really you know, big mature deer to hunt in the mountains. So a ton of those deer last year, and um, I just I sat in that particular area where I knew it didn't moved in November, and uh, I think I put like fifty five hours in one tree waiting on the deer and we've got a bunch of early snow in November and it prevented me from getting into that area. Um, it was a situation where I had to walk you know, um a couple of miles and twelve feet of snow and you know, fifteen degree weather and then sit for eleven hours. It just wasn't. Um. Yeah, it's just it's not practical. Um, when you're staked the sweat and it's you know your way back in there, it's it's almost a safety issue. I don't I mean, it's I don't want to sound dramatic, but you know you can get in a situation where you tired, you drenched in your hours out from getting out of the woods, so it just wasn't it was in a great situation. And actually that the older near actually walked by my stand on that trail the day the day that I couldn't get in to hunt him because of the snow, So that was that was a bummer. And I actually think that you're died last winter, so because he wasn't around this year, um, so that was kind of unfortunate. And then um, a little bit later in the right I did get pictures of this year that that I ended up killing uh in that area as well. But like I said, it was just a situation and really couldn't get into hunt this area after. I'd say I think it was probably November like twentieth or nine twentieth something like that was the day. So um, I've found that in this and a lot of the big woods still later in New England particular, later November is really good and it seems that's when the biggest deer are moving in daylight, um, the most frequently covering the most ground, and you're seeing them still in very late November. They're still kind of doing ruddy kind of things. You're still seeing them. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I actually think that, I well, I do have some data back it up, but my belief is that are peep reading isn't until around November nineteen, so it's gonna push kind of shift everything back a week compared to maybe the Midwest or so about a week, maybe less a week, but it's later. And I think that because of just the way that um the population dynamic is here in the habitat and how vast and big it is, that UM, these dear continue to look because it's not like they can check every you know, dough group in a in a in the coreer home range and maybe a morning or a day. They make multiple day loops and take them a week to check you know, the whole mountain range or the whole swamp bottom or whatever. It's very big. So I think that they continue to check these dough groups in a December UM, so it kind of draws the run out a lot longer, I think. And it's just a theory, but I mean, there's not It's tough to say for sure, because we don't really have any radio call our stuff on these bucks and there just aren't many of them at Deer densities aren't high, so it's you know, it's just my opinion and my theory, I guess we could say. But yeah, I definitely see uh running activity well into November, okay, and and so November twenty hits and you're snowed out and that basically ended your hunt for those deer then at that point, yeah, yeah, that's pretty much what happened. I did get in, um and did some tracking because you know, you can track and you're still moving and trying to sit still. Um. And I did learn a little bit more about the area. That's one of the things that I like to do. I'm not a a huge tracker, although we'll get to a little that's a big part of the story. UM. But UM, I do think it's extremely valuable tool to learn about deer, especially if you can identify it that you know, you're following the buck that you want to punt or one of the bucks you want to hunt. You can learn in a day what might take to two years to learn to trial. Cameras are observation, so it's whenever you have the tracking snow um. I think for the most part, you take the opportunity to follow it. Um. Yeah. And not only that, it's a great opportunity actually kill that deer if you can get you know, the circumstances roots for you. So so I guess I'll wait until we get to the next uh the next year to to learn how you use that then yep. So so this year, um, both as far as I knew, both those the year I thought made it through the winner again, um the buck guy. The original buck I was after, I think would have been nine or ten this year. In this buck, I think it's seven or eight. So they were like growing at the top. Um. The older one didn't show up at all. Um, and so after pretty much in September, I figured he died. Over the winter. We had a situation last year, right, no man's crop. Um. We had like I said, early early snow, deep snow and extremely cold temperatures. So I really think a lot of the bucks went into last winter in really rough shape. And I think it took a toll on a bunch when I think bunch died um, and I actually think it affected there a health even into this year. But um, so anyway, I believe that buck died, So really now just end up killing is kind of at the top of my list, and He's kind of the only one in the area that I'm really interesting in killing. There's a hartly good deer, but nothing like nothing of this magnitude. And you know, it's seven eight year old bucks um in a really special deer for for the Hampshire. So we didn't really get many pictures of him early at all, which kind of worried me. UM. But then he started showing up. I think we ended up checking a camera that we had left like for a long time, so we actually had him in velvet, but we didn't know about it until even he October. We ended up checking this camera, so he was around UM. But then he seemed to to be around more than years prior UM and he was right in like the ear. I was hoped he would be you know that that's set up good for a November hunt and waiting for him to you know, cruise that particular trail again. UM. And I really just didn't even bother hunting him until November, just because I knew in years past he was so sporadic all over the place and you know, no daylight. Really, I don't think I got a daylight picture that buck Hard one, and so I think maybe I got Oh man, I'm gonna say I got like three or four ever of that buck. Um yeah, in four years. So when you're all uh mid mid November at early December. So and that was the time for him it was gonna happen. And I didn't think it was worth it even going in there and trying to haut that deer in kiln. So it basically took November through or so off, um tunt that deer. And my plan was just to sit on that that trail or that that funnel opened, whatever you wanna call it. Basically, the topography push these deer off this mountain, this mountainous area into this bottom this particular spot. Can you better describe just what that topography feature was that just kind of that scene a little bit more so it's it's because it's not I wanna it's it's it's actually a little bit difficult to describe because, um, it's not what you'd really think, Like I haven't if I were to look at a map, I wouldn't look at that that area and think, oh, that's a major pinch pointer funnel. I wouldn't it just kind of, um, I think the quickest way between point a point be. Really it's basically like a point on I guess a mountain where the and the deer I know that. So basically I think it really is driven groups, and in particular dog groups that you know, live high up in the mountains and that's their range, and there's particularly dough groups down on the bottom. It doesn't seem like it's a whole lot in between for the most part um, So I think that basically it's the quickest point between A and B. So I don't even know that i'd call it a topography thing. Maybe that trail is there because it's kind of dumps off the mountain right there. It's kind of a point um that leads I guess directly to where they want to go. So this wasn't in it. This is why I told you, like, I didn't really pay much attention to the spot until we ended up throwing a camera up there and getting these pictures. Then I kind of opened my eyes and it started to make a little bit of sense. But I couldn't look at a topo map or an aero photo and say that's gonna be a good spot. It wasn't like that. It was something that you know, we had to learn through you know, two or three years of experience and running cameras to identify this particular area. And it's like I said, when you're sitting there, you're like, this is kind of it doesn't feel like offer it's going to happen. It was, it was, but we had you know, trail camera dad at the backup that it was so um So this year I took that time off. I got to that that spot on you know, in the dark on November sixte. I pulled the card out of the camera that I had there, and he had been there a few times in that crossing already in earlier November in uh, you know, after dark. But that was good, that's what he'd done in the past. And then like you know, I get him in daylight mid till late November. So that was what I was banking on. So I kind of the stand, got ready and popped the card and my reader and he had been there, walked right by that stand at twenty yards uh the day before at noon. So yeah, the opportunities that there are few and far between. You might get an opportunity like that every year or two. So I'll hear. I am at the beginning of my vacation, thinking I missed the opportunity already. That's it's you know, that was it. That's what I was banking on. And he did it a day early, and I miscalculated the dates because it was a little later in the month or even at the early December. So I was, you know, really bumped kind of like, you know, I don't know. I guess I'm gonna hope he does it again. So I hunted him for I had to actually had a um, I got in the family, so I couldn't hunt one of the days. But I hunted I think seventy seven hours dark to dark, so seven eleven hour days, and that one of two stands up hanging on the wim, but basically hunting the same trail in the same spot, and uh did not see him. Um I passed I think three other bucks, one nice, you know, four year old that just really wasn't what I was looking for. And I made a three year old I think a year and a half, so seventy seven. That's a pretty good indication for people that are trying to get a feel for how it is to hunt in the big Woods. Is he is sitting the stand for seventy seven straight hours during the best days of the year, and he made see three bucks. Would would you say that is your kind of go to method for hunting a big wood situation like this, Like you find the right spot, and when you find that right spot, it's just a matter of hunting it over and over and over and over again because you're just waiting for that one or two deer to come through, and they might only come through once in a week or every two weeks. So you're not worried about over pressuring. No, and and so I guess there is some consideration to take about over pressure. But the the thing you have to realize is in this particular area, it's not like I have dose or a little bucks hanging around around me all day. If I'm going to see a deer, it's going to be a cruising buck for the most part. So if I bomb a year and a half or he gets me and he's cruising, well I don't really care because he's not gonna The buck I'm hunting could be three miles away. So if he blows and takes off, so what I mean, Yeah, maybe age kidd him for a future years, but it really is not affecting the fact that that buck is going to come by. He knows that he needs to go for a to B and when he's in this area, that's what he's gonna use. So I mean I to be running the chainsaw or shooting a fireworks in that stand location. Um, But that deer, like I said, he's on a different mountain, So how does he know that? You know that area has been pressured. Obviously, I try to leave as little soon as I can hunt the wind and all that stuff. But I'm not really worried about that. I think that was something I had to get over because I, you know, used to hunting some a little bit smaller stuff and in the Midwest, and I'm really worried about managing pressure. But you know, in the big woods, you like I said, you may see three deer, and neither none of those deer got me that I saw. Um, So really you can kind of hunt the same area over and over again. I mean, I would definitely pay attent and at tensions to access. How are you getting in? You want to minimize the pressure, But it's not something it's like, oh if I'm burning the spot out, It's just doesn't really happen like that, just because you have such a low deer density and that deer do have recovering miles and miles and miles, so it's a little bit different situation. That's interesting. Yeah, that is the main tactic. I think it's really if you're not hunting them on the ground, which is kind of what you know, a really good way to hunt them in the big woods or tracking. I think that's the way to do it is is putting your time in that area. If you're bouncing around, there's a pretty good chance you're gonna miss him. Um. And when he comes by, because like I said, it might happen once a year that was gonna walk by there in daylight. So wow, Okay, so you put in your year seventy seven hours on stand, you saw three good bucks, but not the one you're after. All right. So then the last day, I just I wasn't feeling it. Um. We had sat until about noon, um, and I kind of noticed that a lot of the activity was usually morning to like one o'clock, and then the afternoons were kind of slow. Um. And I just it was the last day and I was like, I hadn't checked any cameras and any scouting up in this tree for more or less h d eight days and I'm like, I gotta do something, I gotta figure something out. I just don't want to sit here anymore. It's the last day, and I kind of was like, well, if it didn't happen by now, it's probably not gonna happen in the next four hours. So I decided to get own and just do a little scouting, check two cameras, UM and hopefully that there was give me some information to hunt him even later in the right or early December UM. So I actually checked the camera that was about a hundred yards when I was sitting, and he had walked by that camera again on the sixteenth to two pm, and I don't know how I didn't see him. He was like within a hundred yards of me. It looked like his direction to travel, like camera would have loved him by me, or at least I didn't see him. So here I am like, I'm definitely it's over. Like I had two opportunities, Danda, and I'm figured out it was gonna be right here during this team frame and it just didn't happen. So I thought it was pretty much done. Um, I was pretty kind of bummed and like, man so close again. Um. So after that, I know that typically it's pretty tough, um because all the bucks are still like you know, doing rut based activities or not. I do call it in zombie mode. Zombie for me, there are just like marching around all hours of the day, you know, through open areas, like with no regard to much of anything. Um. But that kind of seems to ender right around Thanksgiving, you know, of November. So it's actually a little tougher. It's it's definitely doable, and there's still some daylight activity, but it's more focused. I think around first Sea in the morning and in last light, and you know, around food sources, betting in is that type of thing not on these big funnels. So um, I knew my chances went down significantly. UM So they figured, you know, well this I had to go back to work. Um the next weekend. You know, we were actually filming this this whole season for a project. UM actually didn't have anybody to film, so I couldn't hunt really the Thanksgiving time frame, which I was kind of bumped about to end up checking a couple of cameras um, and I found that he had seemed to have moved into this lower land area that um we actually got him over the summer, and and it made a lot of sense because there was some good grows down there. Um, it was not as harsh of conditions as like, you know, a thousand and fift feet above that area, so let's know, a little bit warmer. Um, there's kind of like a river that coast through there as well, so a little more favor of the late season area, I guess you could say. And so I kind of was a really interesting piece of information. I was like, well, maybe he's in here. That would make a lot of sense. Um. And so I kind of just said, well, I'm gonna plan. I'm gonna assume he is in here, and I'm gonna make a plan a hunter in here. So um. And that was in day like two, which was really encouraging. So it's not just one of these things where he was out moving, you know at night or whatever chasing does. And and uh just happened to get a picture of him. He was actually just kind of taking his time. So that was really encouraging. Um. Then the next day we've got about two feet of snow. And this is like November twenty nine. There's something like that twenty third somewhere in that back yep yep um. And I think we got the snow. And I don't know what it was. It must have been I guess it was a week or so ago. Um, And so I didn't know what that would do. I didn't know if, uh, it would kind of lock him into a particular area because he didn't want to go far. Um. He's already been running for you know, at least six four to five weeks. So I figured maybe he's in survival mode. He wants to get with some doves and a favorable area for you know, winter conditions and hang out there. I didn't know what to extuct, but I hope that he was in that area um and would stick pretty tight so that we you know, last week I was thinking about, you know, just running through everything in my head was just star gonna be you know, how can I kill him? Which you know this is I was so close and like kind of disappointed, but like still like okay, I gotta stay at stay after him and kind of us any anything that I can to track him down. And so um, snow came. It was cold, it was you know, pretty pretty harsh conditions, and so I kind of made a plan that well, hey, you know, I have this fresh snow, and I could only have you know, weekends now because of back to work. Um. And I said, you know, I'm gonna do whatever I can to kill this buck. So I made a plan to basically sleep in on Saturday morning, which is I think the seventh. Uh, I say, sleep and just not get up to you know, three o'clock to get way back in there. I got a I got a snow machine or snow able to get into this there, um get me a lot closer because it was but one of the been another situation where I have to walk to the three miles to get there. So that was huge getting that. Buddy let me borrow that, so I was able to get that figured out, get in there, um into least in the in the vicinity of this year. Um. And then the plan was to go and check these cameras. I guess I forgot to mention I had put out a few more cameras that day where and I got his picture, trying to you know, get an idea of okay, well, at least here, so let's you know, put the camera to make the camera don steal a litt high in the seria to try to pick him up again. So, um, the plan was is to go in there like kind of after first light. Ah a value you wait the sign we saw going in, Uh do your tracks see if the deer are actually they were hanging out of this area. Um, check some cameras, um, and kind of make a plan. We were gonna probably sit there us of the day if the deer. But but we had gotten two inches of fresh snow on top of that. You know, I don't know how much it was. It was somewhere between fifteen inches and two feet of what we got. It very based on the elevation whatnot. But um, when we got that two inches, I was like, well, now tracking is in play because um, we have fresh snow and and this is gun season now too, right, Yeah, this is the second to last day of our rifle season, so rifle season, and it's Sunday the eight, So it was kind of like, you know what, I'm not saying, it's impossible to kill a buck with a bow in the big woods, but it gets definitely, you know, way more challenging without aout rifle. Um So, anyway, I I we snuck into this area. I was seeing really good a lot of track acts and a lot of sign going in there. Um so I was encouraging. And basically we got to one of the first cameras and I see a you know, fresh track in front of it and check the camera and I'm going to the pictures and there's like bobcats and coyotes and like nothing on this camera at all the whole week. But I know this deer walked in front of so I'm waiting to get to this picture. And he had walked by that camera at five thirty that morning, so I have I I have confirmation that it's him, he's in there, and I have his fresh track. So it was a pretty easy decision that I was gonna be tracking that day and not sitting in a stand. Like I said, I don't do it often, only when it was situational location. That's a no brainer. Um So I made you know, I was like, oh, we're going after him. That's you know, it's late in the season, we have snow. It's a it's a golden opportunity. And if it doesn't happen today, um am, I not happening. And he was only on that camera that morning, he was on any other cameras that I had in that area. So interesting, and that doesn't mean that he wasn't there, because it's hard to in the big woods to to get him every time he comes through. But it wasn't something where like, oh man, this is a smoking spot, he's he's hanging out and we gotta sit here. Um. So it was it was kind of like a no brain attract this buck. So I took up the track and uh, I mean, we can get into the details of that if you'd like, or yes, I want, I want the details on how you go about tracking a deer like that in the snow, because it's one of those things that I've always been treated by. I have never tried to do. I've never had a big enough area um and picked up a big track in the same time to be able to pull it off. So walk me through your mindset, walking through what you were looking for. You know, when you were going fast, when you're slowing down, what was the what was the plan? So I'll start by saying this, I am not a very experienced tracker. I'd say that, you know, I have probably more experience than maybe you, because you haven't time tracked here in the past. I wrong. I grew up in you know, this area, so we have snow early and you know, lots of lots of grounded chase on. But it's not something that I I count on because you don't always have tracking snow. So it's not like I'm banging on snow and if we don't get it, then I'm you know, out of luck. So but I've used it, you know, when I'm appropriate, and this is one of those times. And you know, if you want to talk about like the tactics and the intricate sees of tracking, you know, you talked to the Anoyans are held Blood and one of those guys. Obviously those are the experts on it. But I've you know, I know enough to be dangerous that I guess you could say, um, so I guess my my, Well, the funny thing is, is right next to that camera, about fifteen yards away, he'd actually bet it down right after your walk by that camera. And yeah, and so I found it fresh bed and I actually thought we bumped him out of it when we got there because he was running, and I'm like, man, I'm like, how can we have known? I mean, I just kind of like I was kind of bunned because I'm like, man, we could have stake up on but like, how do you lading right next to your camera? How do you know? You know? You just don't know. So I was kind of like, man, dude, we did I just miss and no the role to kill this buck. Like, I'm like, what we have his track, It's like, you know, eight thirty in the morning by this at this point we have all day. Let's just give it our best shot. And usually ideal and snow the sthing like you know, four to six inches of fresh stuff where you can really make out defined tracks. Um, it's not I guess, uh pindering your ability to cover ground because we had so much snow that it actually was it was a challenge to even get around into the form. We're at the point where it was like considering snowshoes, So it was it was a challenge. And when you get that much snow, you really can't see for the most part the track you're following. You can't identify it. It's really tough to make it out. It just looks like, you know, I don't know, like you were just a ski pole and two feet of powder and pull it out. There's nothing behind. You're like, what am I looking at here? So they started to look at you know, the with the stride lengths um the behavior of the deer, that type of thing. Um, So I knew this buck was running. And but then I started to see other deer tracks, and I thought to himself, man, and he chase off a small buck? Is he chasing does stuff? I wasn't sure. We followed him probably a mile, not really knowing if he was way ahead of us, if he was you know, we were right behind him, if he was chasing those, if I bumped him, trying to figure it out. It's just tough and that you know that deep snow to really know what's going on. And finally, after I mean I don't know, must have been an hour and a half, an hour and about a mile track. Um, we just I just decided this duck bucks chasing does and there's no way that we bumped him and continued to bump him. He's chasing dose, which was kind of crazy to me because it's probably ten degrees. It's December seventh. He's been running for six weeks and there's two ft of snow, Like, it doesn't seem like a a smart move. I guess to running that hard to me and in those conditions for over tier buck, Like when this guy's get around themself at death, he keeps this stuff, I'm thinking. So anyway, we it was and we have a hell of a time to tell me that he was still in this group. I think you're stationed about three does or you know, uh, mature dough into funds. Tough to tell. Um. We followed him for a while and in the DOS final really had slowed down and went up on this kind of the spine on a ridge, and I figured, okay, then they might be here. We need to really slow down. Um for the most part, we're going at a moderate pace, I'd say, just because I wasn't sure, if you know, it's like, do we need to stop and let this dear calm down because you jumped him and go back about his normal activities, or do we need to make up distance because this bucks running dogs and these two moles one stuff. We're trying to make that determination. And so they slowed down, so we slowed down, but they didn't slow down for like a very long period time. It's a short distance, but anyway, unfortunately one was really bad for our approach on this ridge, and um, we definitely wind bumped them. We got to the top of the ridge, we saw what they had stopped and browsed. Um, and then there was running tracks going off like the back of the ridge and off this like drop off and down again into another different like bottom area. And so we took some time and kind of like used that you know more I guess relaxed track now the sprinting track, to see what's going on. And we figured, okay, there's probably like two or three doughs. And then like we saw where he had kind of stopped with him but just maybe forty fifty yards away and was browsing and he saw it. We saw time marks in the snow. So I'm like, okay, we're still on him. It's not a different buck because he was the only buck I was gonna shoot it. So it would be real bummer if we tracked the buck all over the country for the whole day and block up and it's you know, some two year olds like oh man, especially since we didn't make up the track, and he didn't really have a giant hoof print either that would you know you looked at and said, man, that's a giant deer. It was like, I think that's a pretty good track, but you know, tough to say. So we followed him and he ran with the dudes for media a mile and then he finally split off from them, and then that kind of was encouraging, and I think we may have pushed him a couple more times in that period. It's tough to say, but we basically got to a spot where like, okay, he is definitely separated from the doze and now he's starting to head back up into the high ground, up you know, into the mountains a little more, and I just figured, okay, this is a good time to stop. Um, let him cool down. You know. I think that he lost us and kind of go up high and start to do his thing. And I think that one of these bucks like to bet up high there every day and come down and look for dose. Well, of course look for dose up high as well, but they'll come down with for doz in the bottom I think, uh at night, and they'll be in the bottom at night and then kind of make their way back up to bed, you know, at some point in the morning. So he's more sense and I was like, okay, this is excrazing. So we gave him about I don't know, thirty or forty minutes, and it was extremely difficult to sit there and wait because I knew we had his track and it was right there, and I knew, you know, we couldn't wait that long because this is about noon, maybe twelve thirty, and we don't have that much more light left. Um, I know midday when you talking about you have the whole rest of the afternoon, but we still might have to track this buck four miles so so it's really not that much time. And it was We're starting to get cold because we're drenched and sweat from running this tier through you know, two ft of snow. So anyway, he started to climb, he slowed down. It was really encoveragy. He got into some older or I guess not as fresh dough tracks, probably made the night before during that two inches of snow, and so um, he wasn't running them. He was just kind of following them, I saying, trying to figure out what they were going, and actually we lost this track because I figured that we needed to slow down and just keep our eyes above. And we're just kind of keeping our eyes on the twoear tracks and we're following, you know, three or four sets, scanning, scanning, scanning. We finally got to a point where we're looking at the trucks, were you know, following or like this track's not here, this is these aren't super fresh, and so that was like, oh man, what happened? Did we lose more time? Like? Do we lose them? So I ended up backtracking probably three yards and found he had split off and he actually headed up again, even higher, and so we hug it up after him. You got to an area that was like mature soft woods, iconifers, spruce and hemlock, and it looked like a likelier for him to bed, but his track didn't indicate that he was about to bed. So a lot of times before these bucks will bed, they'll mill around. They're not you know, going from A to B on a straight line. They're slow down, they're browsing um, and they're taking their time. But this buck just seemed to be going. So I kind of was like, I don't know if he's about the day or he isn't. I wasn't sure, but we snuck up anyway, and we got to really this little plateau on the side of the mountain, and shure enough, there's just a super fresh bed um with a bunch of signs around it and his track in it. And I'm like, oh man, we must have bumped him. Like you know, I'm disappointed again, like how didn't we see him? But yeah, I really didn't have any idea how the day it was gonna end. Um, And I look up out of the bed and there's another you know, it's start to claim again and I see running racks, and like, yeah, we bumped him up, Like it's you know, it's two o'clock now to fifteen, we have like two hours of light left. Gets you know dart pretty early and on the east coast, so I know that's might be it, but we'll continue after him. Well, we only went about twenty more yards and I realized you must have just bounded up that I'm banking to get up up at quicker that will steep section because he started working again and we could see his working backs for another thirty or four guys. I was like, no, we didn't bump him, like he he's got to be right here. He just probably decided to position beds based on the wind or maybe browns around a little bit, whatever it was, and he was heading up to like kind of a rich point, I guess on the mountains, basically rich boat. So at that point I was really feeling like he's right here, Like I just I think we have a really good shot. So we really took our time. We climbed maybe another hundred yards extremely slowly. We got to the top. His tracks kind of went out to this point kind of to my right, so it's scanning that direction, and then all of a sudden, basic to our left, he kind of made loop. He was just standing there, um about seven yards out uh, kind of the hemlocks, and we had not very long to shoot. So I basically pulled up bombs shot and I kind of recal and my rifle kind of got me off and I couldn't see and I just kind of disappeared, and I saw like the flash of down there the ten yards the right when we were standing, and I kind of tried to clear the trees to see you maybe another shot, but I couldn't see much of anything, and then I saw kind of like anybody that's watched a deer tip over has seen it. It's kind of like a slow like you know, almost like a windmill action and like falling time. And of course it's through hemlocks. And I don't know if I'm of course doubting everything that I do think in worst case, but I'm like, I think he just went down. So anyway, UM, pretty exciting, And still didn't know exactly. I mean, sure it's him, right, but we I didn't have time to like identify that actually was that buck. You see a little bit of antler in a big body, any like it's going to be him. So you know, I wasn't sure if you went down either. So you know, we're sneaking up and there's a lot of big boulders in this area. Glacial depositive boulders are like you know, car to house size, so it's really neat up in that area. UM. I kind of came around one of them and I looked at about forty yards and I just see, you know, his right side sticking up out of the snow. Um, and there was no doubts him. So I was pretty emotional moment for me. Actually it was just a lot of you know, years of all that coming together. Um. And really it's the first mature buck that I've ever killed tracking. It's the first mature buck I've killing the Hampshire in December, especially the first mature buck kill the rifle as well. So it's kind of a really cool moment and maybe my oldest buck depending on how old he ends up being, and I think maybe my biggest buck as well as as far as anilers go. So really a wild day and and awesome I think you know experience. Um, and it just was really need a lot and lots of depth, I guess to the to the story. So if you had to drill down to why this worked out, if you had to point to our I think it is because of A and B that really led to me killing this deer. Um what would those things be? I've got like two two thoughts in my mind of what I think might have been the high level keys of success. But in your mind, what do you think? So I think obviously, I think, you know, obviously tracked this deering killing tracking. Without tracking, snow I would have killed him on that day, I don't think. But I think that the reason I was able to find his track and identify it with him. This is because of historical data and running cameras and getting to know kind of what he does over the years. So it was a huge team because, like I said, I was after that buck in that buck only, So if I had seen his track without that picture, maybe I would have followed it. I don't think I would have followed it, for I think it ended up being four miles and five and off. Um. I think we probably would have given up, especially since it was a challenging track because you know how many times he was running with those and the deep snow. Um. I'm almost certain I would have given up to the the honesty, because I just I wouldn't know I was having my cofference level wouldn't have been that I kind of would have been going to take a waste that time here recognizing we're absolutely exhausted from climbing mountains and two and tending green weather. So think that's a huge cage just being familiar with his patterns different times of the year, running cameras and getting that track, and then the next thing is obviously just get getting a golden opportunity and like capitalizing on it like recognizing that this is this is a gift here having his track being able to able to identify him and um having fresh tracking snow. So really that's kind of the two things. I think that the biggest the opportunity recognizing it, getting that right condition and then you know, the knowledge and I guess back work and that you know, allowed me to get that picture to Yeah. Well, and I think that's so your your scenario is pretty unique compared to maybe what a lot of other guys or girls are dealing with, and that you're up in the mountains, you were in the big woods, big public land, or whatever it was that you know, it might be unique compared to what I'm dealing with here in southern Michigan. But the basic concepts of what you did, we're kind of right in line with what you know I might recommend someone do here on you know, in Michigan, which would be in the late season in December. You want to gather intel or use intel from previous years to know the general region you should be looking, and then be hyper focused on what you can learn until the conditions are Intel tell you now is the right time to strike. And so for you, it was you were gathering intel over years, you folk hyper focused on the smaller area. You went in there with that fresh snow because that seemed to be a good opportunity, and then when you saw the track of the picture, you said, oh, now is the strike right now? We have to go for it and lo and behold it panned out. Um. Now that being the case in that unique situation, what else goes through your mind when you're hunting December nine, December nine, or you know, late season in a different kind of scenario, because I know you have hunted all across the country, Um, what are some other things you're thinking about if you were trying to kill a late season bucks somewhere else that wasn't in the mountains or wasn't on this huge scale of land. I think that, I mean, this is nothing like once again that everybody doesn't probably right on its times, but I think really late season there's i'd say three factors, well four if you will. I guess the fourth one is not I guess a little bit different than a different category in the first three. But I think one is a pressure. You know, area that hasn't a pressure, So you want to find areas that there hasn't been a lot of gun pressure, UM or maybe sanctuaries, there's no hunting whatever, Where do you feel comfortable still moving in daylight? Um, you want to find uh food, even if even late in the rut. I think food is a big deal. Uh. If it's not for the bucks that are that are you know looking for does late rut, it's a big deal for the dose because when it's coming UM, I guess the last one would be dose and some of the late late does coming in. I've had seen actually surprisingly good second rut and maybe even late first right activity into December across the country, not just in the Northeast. So if you didn't find areas low pressures, a lot of dough, a lot of dose, and you know of high quality food source, you're gonna be I'd say that's your best bet, better than any other. Um then yeah, But even with those things, late season't can be really challenging and it can't be discouraging as well. UM, And I haven't had a ton of success late season. I think unless you get have a really big you know, food source with you know, almost no pressure the whole year, and you get some really dramatic weather conditions. It's it's tough, but those are the things I look for. And then the last thing, of course is whether that would be I guess you felt. The fourth factors is you want to watch the weather. They're more severe, the better um whatever is pushing these deer to eat um. And that's actually one of the things that surprised me about this book is the weather was pretty severe. I mean we're talking single age its teens two ft of snow November or December seventh, after this bucks and running for six weeks, and he's still chasing those like a maniac. And it's to me that was like, I don't know that this buck would in the front himself to death, like he was skin and bones. When I walked up on him, he was like nothing left of him. So I don't know that he maybe wouldn't have made that transition to food, you know, in the next week, or I don't know, maybe there's a lotdough that day or a fun that came in. It's stuf to say, you know, I don't know what the circumstance was, but um, so yeah, those are those are really what I look for. How consistently doesn't matter where I am. Yeah, how consistently do you see that second run? Is that a thing you count on every year or is it a little more touch and go. It's what I would I kind of approaches that look for all the other factors and then maybe that's a little a little wild card sprinkled in that might get a buck. Do you haven't seen in daylight moving? Um? So, like I wouldn't bank on it. I don't hunt it like to run h like a late season hunts and then hope that maybe that faun or that late dough brings a pile of bucks. And I actually had that happen in Ohio a couple of years back. I was just hunting a food source and seeing a lot of deer and then all of a sudden, it was like all hell broke loose, and you know, there's like three mature bucks that came in on um I think I don't actually don't know because it happened so fast, and I still was a fun It was mid December, But you know, that's just kind of the wild card that can also stack yours in the favor. And that's actually kind of why I like bid December for late season hunting, because you have that stacked in your favor as well. You know, early December could be good or late December January, but I feel like that you know, right round December fifteen, Speci in the Midwest can be a really good time. You have kind of all those factors in your favor. It's like probably maybe one of my other than maybe like opening week and the peak of the right It's probably my third favorite period to hunt. Now, what are the tricks with hunting that time of year? Like you said, food is really important, but sometimes picking the right food or the right place on the food, um, can be the detail that makes the difference between you know, seeing a buck and shooting the buck or you know seeing it at all. Um. What are some of the top food sources you would key in on in the late season or secondarily, my question would be how do you pick the right food source? Maybe they're in an area where there's multiple food sources around. How do you go about trying to fine tune you know, the right place to be on December fifteenth when there's multiple options. Yeah, it's it's that's a tricky one because I think that is so dependent on your particular area and what you've got going on. UM. Sometimes you know it's beans, it's corn. Sometimes I've seen clover, Like right now, I have a property that I manage in New Hampshire and I have standing beans and corn. You know we have snow and cold in there on clover. I don't know why digging through the snow to get clover that's where the activities are. I wouldn't have I wouldn't have ever predicted that. UM. And if you don't have any of that type of thing, which most of other doesn't UM, and you're in maybe some of the lower elevations white and red uh oaks, that's a really safe bet. Sellfis and stuff. UM A lot of areas that I'm not When you get higher on the mountains, the I guess that oaks aren't as prevalent, so you're looking for brows, UM and even stuff like I Actually it's I kind of mentioned those boulders that are in this area. They grow a lot of ferns and moss on them, and I've seen a lot of that activity late in this season on that even like eating moss and ferns off the side of the boulders like that needs to be a bit of a drawing card. But I would say that you know, regardless of what the actual food sources, what you need to do is figure out in your area at that time what's going on. So I think really being using all your clues. Um, if you can glass or see anything, uh, do that, like get out and watch see what the majority of the activity is at before you know, make a plan of hunt. If you can't glass, which is most you know in New England the big woods. Uh, if you get snowlook for tracks and snuggle that's you know, you can learn so much by doing that. Run cameras see you know what the highest density of deer is the same. Other thing that I think is interesting for late seasons, I don't seem to get regular pictures of bucks. Seems like I get I just don't think they're moving as much. Maybe um and when they do move it's more A to B and they may just don't people walking by the camera. But it seems like I'll get like just the frequency that deer on the cameras drops soft, dramatical relate season. But I still think he's still in that area. So I don't know. I've thought about that a lot and not sure exactly why it is. But um, so I wouldn't be discounaging. I like to be isn't there all the time? You still might be in there, just maybe not moving as much and walking around checking scrape, curious about everything. So I rather been hunted for a while and and both are trying to avoid hunters and probably conserve energy as a winter approaches too, So that that makes a lot of sense. Um. You brought up a good point though about not getting discouraged once you get into December or you know in states where you can hunt in January two. You've been going at it for a long time, and if you're still out there, it might be because you haven't filed a tag yet. Uh, there's gonna be some mental mental uh burnout probably going on. How do you or how would you recommend folks just kind of push through that or how how have you ever tried to? I mean, I gotta believe even in your situation, you had this huge rug push and then it gets to you know, it's almost mid December and you still haven't killed him, and you were probably feeling some of that too. Yeah, I know what I mean for sure. I was talking to my buddies, you know, the only year about this year, and you know, after the route, they're like, you're gonna get him, and I'm just like, man, probably not. I I mean, I'm gonna try, but like my chances aren't great. I was like, honestly, like he's probably either gonna make another year hopefully or or maybe that's winners like deal. But uh yeah, it's super discharging and it's I mean, for the most part, your chances maybe as those has been all a year. So yeah, you just have to But what what can you control. You can't control that you're in that situation. So stay positive, just do everything you can, be persistent and hope that you know something goes your way. That's all you can do. It's deer hunting, and you know, if it doesn't go your way, then it doesn't. I can It's something in the world. It's always next year, and I think most of us aren't doing this because they're we're gonna start if we get death over the winter, if we don't get a deer, you know. So I mean it's sometimes it's that's just that's the name of the game. I guess. Sometimes you you don't fill that tag and that's okay, it doesn't. I mean I haven't that filled in the last two years, and I've put a bunch of time, and so I mean, it's it's just the way it is. And I think if you stay positive and take that out look that hey, I'll just just I don't get them this year. I'll just pick right up on him next year and and use what I learned this year and to get after him. But uh, you know, you get to realize all that takes is one dramatic weather event to get that deer to move in daylight and he walks out when you haven't seen him all year, or you know, you haven't had a chance in the while year and there he was, he's dead, or or like you said, one fund that comes in and he comes flying out a offer rage and out of nowhere, and you just killed the buck after all year and five minutes before you're like, yeah, there's like no shot. I'm telling this year, you know, you're feeling down in yourself, So I would just keep that in mind. I mean, there's not really much you can do, so I just say you you think about it, have a solid plan, Uh, stay positive, and that's all you can do it just be kind of proud and satisfied that you'll fuck a good fight and they would know. So that's that's just that's hunting. You know, it doesn't always go your way. Sometimes we get this, uh, this idea in our heads or this image from what we see, uh you know in some of the really good places that guys are hunting. Uh that you know, it's just everybody kills a big block every year, and it's just not the case. It's not the reality for most people, even the guys that put out a ton of times. So I mean, and really, I don't think it should be about that. Um, it should be about the journey. And I was talking to my buddy when right tracking, and I said, hey, I'm not It's not to be the end of the end of the world if we don't fill this year today, Like I hope, I hope that if we don't that he makes another year and I get to the story continues, and I really am fascinated by, you know, the journey or the story and the production of the year over the years and learning about him. I think that you know, if aout a four year story in his deer, I mean, it's a big deer, but without a four year story, he wouldn't mean you know, anywhere close to it means doing now, So you know, that's that's kind of how it is. And that's how I took the last to year is because I would know after you know him and another one it just didn't happen. So I was like, well, next year. I can't wait for next year, So I would just stay optimistic and look through the future and if it happens, it happens. YEA enjoying that journey. That's That's one of the things when it when it gets to the late season, for me, I always have this light shift in mindset um And maybe this isn't good when I when I describe what I'm like before, but when I'm in November, I'm usually a little bit stressed out because there's all this expectation, like this is what it's supposed to happen, this is the best chance all year, this is the super Bowl, the stakes are highest, your opportunities is now, and if it doesn't happen now, it might not happen again at all. So I tend to find myself really excited but also stressed a little bit during that time period, which is just kind of my nature. Um, once I get into December, though, I've had to have like a mental switch where I shift, I'm okay, now it might not happen, right, I mean, things are getting harder and harder. More and more of these deer have been killed during gun season. My opportunities are less. Um, that doesn't mean they can't, it can't still come together. But I have this little shift where I go from stressing because I have to get it done too. Now you know it might not happen, but that's okay. And and looking back on this season, and so when I'm on these late season hunts, I've come to really enjoy this time of year because it's all gravy. Now now I've kind of all right, you've had a season, You've you've had all these great times. It's cool encounters, Um, you've learned new things. Just enjoy it, Just milk it for what it is, because the season is gonna be done here in a matter of days or weeks, and you're gonna wish that it was hunting season again. So I tend to find myself doing a better job of looking up at the sky and the sun setting or paying attention to the little fall and running around and just enjoying that and and yeah, I'm still gonna have a smart plan. Yeah I'm still gonna be trying to get that dear um. But like you said, whether it happens or not, life's still pretty darn good. Absolutely, I couldn't agree with Moris, you know what you just said there. I think late season a great time for reflection and just appreciating the journey you have. Why do you kill a deer or not? Like if you I mean ay day, like I said, it does it for a different reason. But if you're out there just because you want to kill an animal and launch a tag, like I don't know, that's fine, but you may want to take a step back and think about why you're doing it. I mean, I really just love spending time outside pursuing. Then was thinking, you know, I liked his journey. That's that's what I like. And at the end of the year you can look back and like, man, look at the scene and that maybe they didn't kill this buck. Look when I learned, look at the encounters I had, Like that was fun. I got to spend time outdoors, I got to do what I love and you know, hey, I learned this this year, and I'm gonna work hard in the off season and put this into play and next year I think that's gonna put me over the top. And you know, you know, put put the odds in my favor and then you and you have that anticipation starts to build again and you know, just do it all over again. So I think that's what I like the best about about this whole whole gig And hope if you kill it, they're awesome. But I mean there's also the thing I killed this buck, and I'm he's not there anymore. Though next year, I don't get to look forward to what's he gonna be, what's he gonna look like doing so not there anymore, and that's kind of a letdown too, So it's kind of a double edged short. I mean, sometimes I'm not upset that thes deer get away and they make it another year, you know. So I don't know if if you're getting stressed, like just trying to make it, take that perspective mindset and think about that way and it may help you enjoy your time more and enjoy the process and journey. Yeah, that's what it's all about right there. Gotta gotta make sure to never get so serious or ever gets so worked up about it that it takes the joy out of it. Um So, man, well, this is fun and it's encouraging to hear your story because you know, there's probably a lot of other people myself included, uh, still trying not to tag and to hear how you pulled it off after years and years of following Steer around and it all came together. I think that can give us all a little bit of hope that maybe the stars can align for us to So thank you for sharing that, Brett, and sharing the process that you went through and and uh and what led to this success. It was really interesting and holy smokes, if if you guys haven't seen this deer that Brett got a shot at, you gotta check it out over on Instagram or where where Brett should folks go if they want to see what you're up to now or the different projects you've got coming in the future. Is there any place you want to direct people towards right now? They just go to my Instagram. They can still you know, see that and then whatever products that I got coming out, I guess these things were working on. It should be coming out to start this or this coming summer um, including the story of this buck. But my Instagram just Brett July twenty two, So pres T T j O iping out there and I don't post like crazy, but to do puss stas really keep people up there and what I'm what I'm up to perfect alright, well I will. I'll make sure to share that with folks and man, thank you for taking the time to share all this with us. I really appreciate it. Thanks, And I said, there's a lot of season left for a lot of guys and STI out there. Fingers cross all a good story for you soon, Brett, I hope so good luck, thank you, and that he is going to do it another episode in the books. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this one. I hope it gave you just a little bit more hope for those late season hunts. Keep after good things can still happen. I will hopefully have news for you soon with my own late season hunts. I will tell you though, is late season hunting starts wrapping up. Reading season begins for me. I'm out there grabbing some new books. I love a good book by the fire, and it's cold outside, and I'd be remiss if I didn't remind you that that Wild Country, my new book, is out there. It's for sale on Amazon or wherever else you want to find books, and it would mean the world to me if you pick up a cop Thanks in advance and until next week, thank you for listening, and stay wired to hunt. M

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