00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three d and fifteen, and today in the show, I'm joined by outdoor writer and white Tail expert Travis Faulkner to go deep into new rut hunting ideas, stand sites, calling, tactics, and much much more. All Right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Onyx to In the show, we've got Travis Faulkner. He is a serious hunter and outdoor writer from Kentucky and he's in period in all sorts of places like Outdoor Life, Field Stream, North American, white Tail, and a number of other publications and show os. And today he's gonna be joining me to talk rut hunting strategy, all things rut, pinch points, funnels, betting, years, decoying, rattling, how to find the spot within the spot, you know, everything you needed to be doing this time of year to fill a tag. That's what last week's podcast was about. That's what this week's podcast is about. Because we're in that super Bowl of the white tail season. It's now is the time to get it done, So I want to make sure we're getting you some good info. And that is also why I've got a guest co host on the show with me today for our intro, because he's always got some helpful things to share, and there's no better time to hear that kind of thing than now. So Andy May, thanks for helping me out on this one. Hey, no problem, buddy, anytime. Excited to catch up because we've been kinda You've been off in Nebraska. I was in Minnesota, and we've been like trying to play phone tag and get caught up and haven't got to spend too much time chatting. So I'm glad we can do this and you have. You've been on a tear this year. Um. We talked earlier. You killed that buck in Kentucky, and then since then you killed one in Ohio. Then you went to Nebraska and killed a big mule there, and then you came back to Michigan. You just killed a giant Michigan. Um, so I'm curious if you could send like your lucky rabbit's foot or four leaf clover or whatever it is. If you send it my way because because my luck is is all out from last year. UM, so I need some Andy may good juju please. Yeah, yeah, it's I don't know, it doesn't always happen like this, but you know, it seems like every once in a while it does. You just kinda try to ride that wave for as long as it will last. But you know, I'm sure, I'm sure it'll end soon, so I'll try to send some of your way. Thanks, And in all seriousness, I don't think it's luck. I know that it's preparation and hard work and a whole lot of experience that's led to all that success Andy, But I do think could be worth it least talking about your Michigan hunt, because that was pretty recent. That was just in the last couple of days of October. Um. And it was interesting because you texted me the morning of and you said, this big buck showed up. He's in a spot where if a big boy rolls in, he doesn't live very long. I think I can kill him. And then like seven hours later you text him and you said you got him. So I gotta hear how it happened. Um, this laid October kind of pre rut time frame. UM. Really interested to see how you pulled it off. Can you give me this goop? Sure? Yeah, So this is a book that UM, I have a little bit of history with as far as um uh. Last year, I had some encounters with him. I had some sightings with him and and lots of pictures and he was very unique, nice dear last year, very identifiable, super heavy rack UM kind of tight frame, I'm you know, not very wide, and he had a typical side that was a half of an eight so four point side, and then the other side, UM kind of went up. The brow tyne on that side split and then it sort of had like a non typical look. And what I think happened was that during velvet it must have got bumped and it just kind of grew sort of funny. It wasn't like a super freak or anything, but it just kind of grew non typical a little bit. So he's very identifiable, UM. And he started showing up on this property UM right on that like that third week, third and fourth week of October, so right that pre rot time, UM, he was one. I was really looking forward to seeing this year as a four year old because I thought man, he's non typical, and what's he gonna turn into? He's gonna turn into this this crazy side non typical. I was. I was really pumped. Um. One thing that was distinct about him as a three year old, really long brow tygns. You know, they're probably six seven inches is, you know, a lot longer than your typical buck in this area usually, you know, good brow times are for four or four and a half inches something like that around here on average, I guess. And so I was really looking forward to to finding him this year and hopefully hunting him see what he turned into. And just like clockwork, just like a lot of these mature bucks do, Um, he showed up in the exact same area during the exact same time frame. And that's something I've really learned the key in on the last ten years or so, I was probably ten fifteen years. I started noticing it, and then I really started planning my hunts for particular deer in particular areas using that strategy. And he showed up the same area, um, just like he did last year. Um. It just must be his kind of breeding area, his rut area. So he leaves this his summer, you know, in early season home range and wherever that is, I have no idea, but he shows up here, and um, I was in Nebraska. Um uh. Then I on my way home from Nebraska. You know, I'm kind of runs through my head. You know, what am I gonna do when I get back in Michigan. I felt a little bit out of touch. Um because I was in Nebraska and then I was hunting Ohio. It's not a big ten point in Ohio. And I had hunted Michigan some and I had some really good hunts for some other deer. Um, but I was out of touch with just what was going on when I normally, you know, I say I like to have my finger on the pulse. I like to know what's going on everywhere I hunt, And um, I'm just doing that and started to interrupt you, Andy, But when you say you get the finger on the pulse, what does that actually mean? Like, how are you actually doing Is that because you're just checking cameras so frequently, or you're getting out there and still glassing even where you're not hunting, or how are you doing that this time of year? It's just kind of all of the above. So so I'm I'm my strategy is absolutely checking cameras. Okay I did. I definitely do that. Um, I get boots on the ground looking for tracks, looking for areas that are getting hot with signed so I'll I'll do quick walkthroughs through areas that aren't super sensitive, looking for rubs and scrapes popping up. And these are areas that I know a big buck lives or an area I know typically produces big bucks, and that's what I focus on. So when those areas heat up, UM, you know I can. I can see that by just getting out there and and just doing a quick kind of edge scout. I guess you know I'm not. I'm not diving into bedding areas or or real thick areas where I risk bumping deer because I've already done that. I already know where those places are. I know them, and I know them like the back of my hand. So this is more of an edge scout. I'm looking for are these bucks getting more active? Are they in the area? Am I finding a big track? Um? In a lot of cases, you know, there's only one or two mature bucks in an area. So when I when I get a big track, I often know what deer It is not always, but sometimes they have distinct features and and you learn that over years. Sometimes it's just a big track and you assume that that's the one because there's not five or six of them. There's one a lot of times. So um. And then the other way is is glassing. I do a fair bit of glassing in areas that are conducive to it. You know, I'm not glassing into a swamp that I have to walk through, you know, a half mile of hardwood's to get to. I'm not glass in those areas. But where a hunt in northern Ohio, it's flat, it's agg country. The the trees that are there are hedgerows and tiny woodlots. So there it pays for me to stay mobile and glass and and just try to catch a glimpse of a good deer right at last light or right at first light. So it just depends on the property. Um. But I use all those above methods and I I kind of do them all. Not not every day, but I'm doing something every day to kind of narrowed down my focus to a certain deer or a certain area. So um, jumping, just real quick jumping from the Michigan Buck to the Ohio buck. I spent five days over like an eight day period, driving down to Ohio to Glass before work. So it's not far. My new location where I live is only fifteen minutes from border, about twenty minutes from the property. So I'm driving twenty minutes away from work to Glass at first light trying to locate the steer, and then I'm driving from there an hour and tend to work. So it wasn't that big of a sacrifice. It was just twenty minutes, you know, five or six days over a I don't know, tend to two week day period, and then I finally located them and that's what led to that kill. So so there the strategy was glassing um with this Michigan buck. The strategy was just checking cameras and my cameras, you know, at this spot. I run cameras kind of two ways. I run them in spots that I can checked off and check often, you know, uh, just in to cover um around food sources where dear typically encounter humans or farming equipment or just more traffic, and I'll check those often, not every day, um, it might be a once in a week deal. It might be during a rain if there's rain for four days, I might check it two out of the four days, but I'll check them more when things start heating up like now and during the rut, I feel like I can get away with Marcus dearre moving more. Their focus is not so much on survival more on breeding. I can get away with a little more foot traffic in the areas I hunt, but I still don't go into the sensitive areas. So with this buck got back from Nebraska, I felt a little out of touch with what was going on in Michigan. I didn't know what big bucks were around right now, I didn't know what areas were heating up. So I I spent that first day back doing that. After work, I drove a hit two or three spots, check some cameras, check some field edges for activity, UH, for tracks and whatnot. And I got a picture of this deer. And he had been on the camera for three or four days, nothing in daylight, but you know, within an hour after dark, so I knew he was I knew he was here, I knew he had showed back up. And the reason I sent you that text is because I felt very confident I could kill this dear because he was so active last year. I knew where he wanted to bed, I knew where he wanted to travel, and I just know how to hunt this area really well. Okay, And and the whole key to this this area is just just staying out. Really, you just have to have the discipline to stay out. And if you can monitor when that area heats up and then die right in, you got a really good chance of it, at the very least seeing that dear. But because of the way this property sets up, you have a really good chance of having an encounter, like a close encounter with this deer. The movement and the betting is pretty straightforward. It's got some pretty well defined betting and and uh like travel routes because because a lot of it consists of open field, a lot of it consists of standing water, so it creates a lot of terrain type funnels. Um, So all I need to do is wait for the good buck to show up and then to hunt these areas smart um, with the wind and watching my access and then with you know, with some luck, you know, those deers, those deer come out of the betting areas that they've always used, and they traveled down these areas. So what I try to do is going at the right time, wait for the right wind, wait for the right conditions. I like, obviously cool weather is good, not a necessity in my opinion this time of year, but um, you know some cooler weather is good and mean, the main thing is just waiting until they show up and then and then timing it right and waiting for those perfect wing conditions. And then in this this piece in particular accessing, you know, there's an easy access where you're going through dry land and you will bumped here and you're at least on that day your wind is going to blow into one of the betting ears, and happened to be one that he was in that day I killed him. So what I do is I come in through the back access and and um, I have to wait, I don't know, thirty five minutes, well about thirty minutes through knee deep water and cat tails. So that's what I did on that day. I put the hip boots on and I waded through the water and the cat tails, and I got set up. There was there was two betting areas. There's actually three betting areas that I thought he could be in. Two for sure. Can you explain what those betting airs looked like? Like, what kind of zone were you looking at the potential buck betting are he could be in. I didn't. Just trying to picture exactly the whole scenario. I'll explain. Um So on the edge of this swamp and cat tails, there's an island, okay, And you can walk around the swamp on dry land and get to that same island and set up, But the wind would have busted you up before before set up. So what I did is I came in on the back side. This island doesn't have any yoaks or anything, but what it does have is a little point off the island where there's a really nice little thicket and some kind of um, I don't know what kind of trees there are. I'm not good at identifying trees, but they're kind of bushy trees, like the kind of deer like the bed under and there's always five or six beds, big buck beds, and it's the same buck moving positions kind of around that point and around that island. I mean, it's been there for years and I've seen multiple multiple bucks come off of that island, but there's just not always mature. UM. So that was my number one. UM. The number two was about about a quarter mile away. Is this this wood's okay, it's just a normal block of woods when you look at it, budding up to a bean field. So when you go to that wood's edge and you look in it, it looks open, kind of like parkish, you know, not your typical woods you want to you want to be hunting in for mature deer. But if you go about a hundred yards in, there is remnants of an old tornado or some sort of super cell or something where all the trees are a good portions of them are down and they're creating all this tangle and horizontal cover and let a ton of sunlight in. This happened who knows, five ten years ago, I don't know, but it's super thick like it's hard to walk through. You can't see into it. And that's another area where the big ones like to bed, and I've had them come out of there before. So that was my number two. But the reason that spot is so deadly, it's kind of a fairly big woods, probably fifty acres or so UM, but up up against the woods in the middle of that bean field is a is a drainage. Okay. So it's this little creek that's about two three ft wide, kind of winds through the field, whether it's corn or beans, just winds through the field on anywhere. On each side of that creek is fifty two let's say maybe eight yards of like swale marsh grass. Because it's low, it dips down. The farmer can't plant, it's too wet. Okay, So where do you Where do mature bucks like to enter into a field? Low spots the low spot. They always enter the low spot in the evening, Okay, So that's what they do. The thermals fall down into this low spot and that's where they come out. What what sweetens this spot so much is that this low spot is a swale of marsh grass. I mean they can literally enter leave that woods and enter into the field in that low spot and they'll mingle in, rut and and rub and do all this stuff in that little swale. And you can't see them unless you're right on the edge, Like if you're in the field, you're a hundred yards away. You can't see down there. It's it's too low. Um. So I've had good luck hunting right on the edge of that woods, either on the north or south side of that swale. I call it a swaye. I don't know what you'd call it, but it's a drainage, you know. It's a drainage that kind of winds through. Ye. So that was my number two. So my plan was to hunt number one and if he's not there, the hunt number two. If he's not there, hunt number three, number three. I wasn't as confident in, but I've killed deer out of out of one and two. Um, so I chose number one the first day. UM went in with my saddle. Don't have a spot set up or anything this. Other people hunt this, so it's like I don't have presets. I don't want other people norm where I'm going. And I went in and I set up on the north side. It was it was a southernly. Um. It was like it's blowing out of the south at a bit that day. So I set up on the northern side. And and where you set up. You said that this betting areas on a point coming off of this island, and this island is inside from the edge of the timber and the swamp. So are you actually right on the edge of that island north of it. Yes, let me explain that a little more. So. This this island is on the edge of the swamp okay, on the other side. The swamp kind of narrows down on the one side. And what what dear do is they'll come out of the swamp or off that point of that island. They'll come through the island, and then back behind me is is his food is egg. So it's a very defined traveler out from this island to the egg. Okay, they can go through. They can go through the marsh where I waited through, but it's knee deep water. They're not going to do that unless they get spooped down there. Pressure down there. Um, it's it's very distinct. So what I do is I go right to the edge of the island. I don't go onto the island. This island small. I can cover the whole thing with my bow, and I set right right up on the edge. Um it just quietly set up on the edge. I got about fifteen feet up. And you know, if he's there and he comes out towards the food, I gotta crack at him. You know. Within the first ten or fifteen feet that he moves, probably yards, I'm sorry, ten or fifteen yards that he moves. So how far do you think you were from the bedded from the bed when you set up? Probably seventy yards maybe, So this island is a little bit higher. It dips down into more Martian like swampy area, but the point kind of tapers down, so he's just over a little rise and he's kind of down. The winds blowing the marsh grass, the swamp grass, everything's blowing. It's creating a fair bit of noise. I was able to set up no problem. Um, you know, on a calm day that might be a little trickier. I think you could still do it if you're pretty good with your equipment, but you just have to move slow and try not to make any noise. So anyway, I got set up without bumping him, and the night kind of progresses. I see a few dolls way off, way off by the by that other woods out in the out in the field there, and it's looking like it's not gonna happen. And then all of a sudden, I'm kind of glassing down into that into that point, and I just see kind of antler tips, so I know he's kind of up and he's on his feet and he's moving. I'm like, is at him. And then I see just he turns the side and I just see this really incredible mass and this deer is really massive. He's got great mass, and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's him. So now it's just a waiting game. The light is running out very fast. When I first saw him, there was maybe ten minutes of light left. And he's down there and I just see the top half of his rack and he's like put his head down own and I think, Okay, here he comes. And then all of a sudden, I see him put his head up and he's in the same spot and he does this like like six or seven times. I'm like, oh my God, like seriously, just come, Like I know he's coming this way. But he's like waiting, you know, he's waiting for like more security darkness or something, or maybe he's just waiting to kind of get a good whiff of whatever is around. But the wind stayed pretty true. It's blowing me into a safe area and I just need him to come before last shooting. Like, so then he starts slowly making steps my way, like a few steps coming. I'm getting the bowl ready, and then he stands there for a few minutes and I'm like, oh man, we're gonna run out of time here. And then it's just it's those last couple of minutes of daylight and all of a sudden, you know how like you're watching a deer do this, and they're kind of waiting and they're biding their time. They're wait until they feel comfortable or feel like they they've scented the whole area, and then they make that decision to come, and then they come, and you know it, right, it's like, yeah, it's like, okay, all, all is good, All's clear. Here I go, you know, like I feel, I feel comfortable. And then he made that. I could see it. I can see his body and his demeanor change, and here he comes, and he's coming. So he's coming across that island, heading, you know, right through the middle of it, basically right towards you know, where all the food is. And he's coming right at me and I'm set up in the saddle. I'm set up in this big tree, um pretty pretty large tree, and so I'm on the opposite side of it. So I'm peeking around to the left where I can see him coming, and he's coming right at me. I was hoping he'd come more like off the side, you know, yards he's coming right towards my tree. And I'm like, okay, this is gonna be you know, this is gonna be a really really close shot. Now I know the SHOT's gonna happen, and it's gonna be right under me, and it's gonna be very close. So I leaned back to the right so that the big tree is directly between him and I, and he's already within fifteen yards of me and walking, and I come to full draw behind the big tree, which was a huge advantage to have the saddle in this situation. UM. Unless I had a tree stand facing the opposite way of the deer, which I probably wouldn't have done. In this case, I probably would have been faced off to the right or face directly at him. UM. It would have been really hard to come to full draw because I wasn't that high. I didn't want to get super duper high, um, because the canopy wasn't real high. It was a little lower. UM. But with the saddle, I was able to literally just just kind of swing back behind the tree so that the tree blocked me, blocked me from his vision, and I came to full draw, and then I just slowly swung back around and creeped around. By the time I creeped back around, he was at five yards like right under my tree, and he was he was quartering to me just a little, and he was starting to smell around, which I thought was incredible because he hadn't even crossed my as yet. But he he wasn't locked up, but he was like almost like he was sensing something. And I was like, oh, man, like come on, Like I purposely, I did have to walk through the center of uh Like there's there's pretty much two trails that looked like they were kind of coming out off through that island. I did have to cross those trails to get to the tree I was in because of the way I was playing the wind, Do you get me? Okay? So, but what I tried to do is I tried to make sure I crossed them where I would already have a shot at that deer beforehand, Like if he was coming down those trails, i'd have a shot before he would cross my boot trail. Is what what I tried to do so, but he's he's starting to sniff, like he smells me before he even gets to my track, like like like ten ft before, and I'm like, oh my gosh, is he's smelling, you know, like he's gonna he's gonna bust. But I just was patient and I said, I'm not gonna take that shot. He's according to Well, then he just kind of slowly starts creeping forward. He turns a little more broadside. I put the pin right, you know, kind of high on his back. It's like it's almost like a not straight down, but it's a it's a steep angle shot. Not not ideal, but with broadside, um, you know, it's not too bad. It's it's a lot harder when they're right under the tree. A lot of times you'll get that one long. But he was out about five six yards and I could get just that angle. If I go just into the spine, I'm gonna I'm gonna get him good. So I put the pin there, I shoot, and I see that the lighted knock berry like up to the fletching and he takes off and it was it was dark enough where I just you know, it just wasn't sure. Like I said, I think that shots great, but it was high, but it's supposed to be high because of the angle right. So but it's just like if he was out thirty yards and I hit him there, i'd be a little worried, but he was so close, so I felt I felt pretty good. Text to my buddy Mike to come out and help me. Um when he ran off, I did hear him go through some brush, but then I didn't hear anything. I didn't hear a crash or anything, and I was like, oh, man, I should have heard a crash. Karen's starting to stress out a little bit. And then long story shore, we give him a couple of hours just to be safe. Buddy shows up. We started walking out there and we come around the dry side so we don't have to wade through the water. I was like, let's you know, we're not who cares if we bumped anything. Now, let's just walk the dry side. And we come walking down and we're kind of getting someone up close to, uh where the shot happened, and I kind of looked to my left. It's pitch dark. We don't even have any lights on, and I go what's that Shine your light over there? And he shines his light over there, and he was laying dead right there. So he only went he only went about sixty yards. It was a it was a good double long shot, um. And we walked up to him and he was he was even bigger than what I thought he was, to be honest. You, um, his mass in trail camp pictures and stuff, it's kind of hard to identify mass. Like sometimes when you get like a real palmated one, you know he's heavy, um, but you couldn't really tell that with this book. Um. But his his beans are just so heavy. That's the best part about him. And the tall brown tens. His brown times have had grown a lot from the year prior. But he's super cool. Yeah. So so I did. Wasn't trying to sound cocky or anything when I said I think I got a good chance of this, dear. It's it's because he showed up where he did in this area. It's very clear, very distinct lines of travel, very straightforward on how to hunt it. If you can stay out, which a lot of people can't, you know, if they you know, if they have trouble staying out until things kind of heat up. You know, if I would have been hunting that island and hunting this other spot before he was there, before the activity picked up, probably wouldn't have helped my cause. So tryl Camber played a big role in this one. Really really interesting to hear how you played it and how you you waited for the right time, made the move, understood the property well enough that you knew where those top spots were, and then had the plan to go in one, two, three, And that's cool. It was really cool to see it all come together. When you texted me that morning, I was like, oh, that buck better watch out, And sure enough, that's uh, that's what the case was. So before, um, before, let's go Andy. When this podcast drops, it's gonna be November six or seven, so people will be you know, right in the midst of it. Um, yeah, November seven. So one or two quick, just rut hunting rules from Andy. May your couple pieces of wisdom for people hunting this next week or so? Sure? Yeah, Well, I'll start off by saying this is this is probably my least favorite time to hunt, uh, when I'm after a particular deer, But if you're not after it's really hard to pattern them down. Um, the movement's become much more kind of all over the place. But if you're just looking for a nice deer or any mature buck, it's it's a great time. Um. I'll say this, my favorite areas typically depending on where where I'm hunting, I like to be on. I like to know where dog groups bed. Um. They usually kind of stay pretty similar throughout the fall, and I like to I like to play around the downwind sides of those. I've had great luck with that, and it's a great spot to sit all day, um at least until um, at least until like that three o'clock time frame. Okay, at least till then, because what happens is those dolls will come back to bed sometimes. Uh sometimes you'll get bucks kind of cruising that downward side early in the morning. But about my favorite time during the rut is like that mid morning, like that nine o'clock to noon, UM, seems to be a really great time for that that type of scenario. Um. Definitely, Um, definitely, if you can on all day, if you're in that type of situation, at least until three or four o'clock. If if once the evening hours hit like that afternoon if you want to move to something more maybe kind of towards a food source or something where there's you could kind of get into the cover a little bit. But on the way to a food source, that's not a bad idea. Um. The evening sits tend to be a little slower on the downward sides of dope betting area once the dolls start to leave. Um. So that's that's one. UM. The other one I like is just your your basic funnel between dough between dope betting areas. So I see this a lot in like river bottom ground. Um, sometimes you'll get it like in egg country where you know you've got a wood lot here that holds deer and and you've got a marsh here that holds deer, and then there's some sort of strip of cover that connects the two or maybe just two wood lots that that typically hold dose. Um. Those are great spots. And those are again great spots to sit all day at least through that at least through that eleven to three time frame I've I've killed. I can't tell you how many big bucks I've killed. In mid day it's my favorite time of day during the rut, and I've killed some really old including my biggest. My my big one seventy two was was that three in three in the afternoon, so maybe not exactly mid day, but still plenty early um, but a lot in that eleven to two range. UM. I really like that time frame. And if you're if you're hunting either of those spots, definitely sit through that time frame. You can sit there the rest of the night, um, but you might be better off moving towards something a little more related to food for that afternoon. I don't always do that. Sometimes I camp out all day because I really don't like leaving and then moving in um to a new new spot. But I will do that if I don't think the evening is going to be productive. UM. And then another tip is you're going to start to see the big mature box. A lot of times you'll see them for the first time and they're gonna be locked down with a dough. UM. They usually pick up the first dough or two that's in heat. When you see that, you have a short window. You have anywhere from like a depending on when you first see him. If he did, he just just lock up with that dough or has he been with her for a day? He usually got like one, two, at the very most three days that he's gonna be with that dough, and you can almost count that he's going to be in that area. Okay, So what what I've had good luck with doing is when I see that, I usually a lot of times will get out of the tree and I will move closer and I will set up as close as possible um to where that action is. And if you can if it's a scenario where you can see and observe like um CRP type ground or marsh type ground or or you know, kind of scrub brush, that's all the better because then you'll be able to see this buck kind of pushing this dough around, or the dough kind of moving around naturally, and he's just following her, and he he's occupied. This is your time to dive in if you want that particular deer to get in tight. And I've been really aggressive when I see him locked down like that, and I'm able to get in really close within a hundred yards sometimes closer, and then and then it's just a matter of like waiting for him to make a mistake, waiting for that dough to come a little closer, or when they're preoccupied looking away, you can sneak in and crawling a little closer. That this is another good, good dog, you know, plugged for a saddle. UM. You know, if you have something to get up in a tree and you're wearing that saddle, that's perfect tool in that type of scenario. But if you see that and you're sitting two hundred yards away, get down and move closer if you can, if you have that ability to stay mobile, um, And it's a very very re least move into that area the next day and and you're in the game. They're gonna be in that area that that that buck will not let that dough go too far. And the only way I've seen, um, when one's locked down with a dough. The only time I've seen a buck move an area like more than like two or three hundred yards is when another buck comes in and tries to tries to, you know, interfere with that that breeding process. That buck, the big buck, the more mature buck will meet and and chase that other buck off, and then I've seen the dough take off. So I've seen the dough take off like two three yards and and now they're in a different area. But that's I've seen that happen multiple times. I saw that in Iowa on a big buck um that I end up shooting. Luckily, this other buck came across the crp faield the buck I was hunting challenge that buck. The doe came running right by me. And then once that buck chase that I went off, he came. He came right by me and I got a shot. So nice when that happens. Yeah, those are those are probably some tips that I'd try to keep in mind, you know during the rut and you know, just putting a lot of times it's just putting in time out in the tree, you know. Don't overlook that that midday time frame. Yeah, good stuff, my friend, good stuff. I appreciate you taking a little time to help us introduce this episode with your story and some quick tips. Um. At this point we're recordings on Halloween, so about a week before this podcast will go out. I still haven't had my rut success, but hope they'll change here soon and uh maybe we'll be able to chat again here with a couple more success stories in the in a matter of days. Al right, buddy, sounds good. All right, We're gonna now flip it over to my chat with Travis Faulkner with a whole lot more rut hunting info and stick around for a deer hunting joke at the end. It's worth the weight, all right. Before moving on that, we need to thank our friends over at first light. And I'm out there hunting the white right now. And here's what I'm wearing. I'm wearing a couple different sets of their bass layers, depending on how cold it is. It's really cold and wearing their furnace. That's three fifty level bass layers. If it's warmer and running there one fifty or two fifty layer bass layers. Then on the bottoms. The next thing I add would be straight to the main piece, which is these Solitude bibs. On the top. I'm gonna be wearing those bass layers. I just mentioned that them to throw on top the claymath hoodie. If it's super duper cold, they might layer a vest or something like the Brooks jacket, which is a really lightweight down sweater. And then finally overtop is going to be the Solitude jacket. Uh. And of course gonna throw in a beanie, some gloves, and I'm ready to rock and roll. If you want to learn more about that system or any other stuff out there that first Lay has to offer, you can go to first Light dot com. And while we're at it, also want to thank Lacrosse and I've been telling you about the new Navigator series, their new lace up boots. I've been testing them for the last I don't know, three weeks now. I took him on that Minnesota Boundary waters hunt. That was my main boot and it worked great. I mean, that was the ideal type of boot to have for that hunt because I wanted something super comfortable for hiking all over the place. We're going up and down these big rocky ridges, hiking all over the place. They're comfortable. They were waterproof when I had to get in and out of the canoe and uh, I have no complaints. So check out the wind rows by Lacrosse. That's when I was running and two thumbs up. All right with me? Now on the line is Travis Fultoner. Welcome to the show. Travis. It's good to be here. I really appreciate it. Like we were just saying before we started recording, This is a real busy time for folks, so I know it's no small thing to carve out the time out of the tree stand to chat. So thanks. Yeah, it's like I said, it's time of being the woods and not on the phone. But you know, we'd like to take Tom too a little deer on soil. You know, we're good to go on that good. Well, for all those that maybe aren't familiar with who you are yet, could you give us just a quick cliff notes in row on who you are what you do in the hunting world. Yeah, I'm Travis Father. I'm an outdoor rider. Um, I also teach school and and don't I can't remember while I've been riding for that dooor maybe the stuff I write for a little bit of everybody like Outdoor Life and Film Stream, North American Light, Tell Turkey Country magazines like that, and uh. I grew up in the mountains of southeastern Kentucky Appalachian Mountains, and you know, like most boys right here, I grew up in you know, in the outdoors. My dad, you know, practically carried me round in the woods before I was even able to walk, you know, on squirrel hunts and stuff. And I was fortunate enough to know my grandfather growing up. And you know, those two guys are not only taught me a lot, you know in the woods, they taught me a lot, you know, about life, you know, through taking me hunt and fishing and whatnot. And uh, I've just pretty much lived my life you know, in the woods and on the lake and and uh, you know, fortunately I was able to you know, kind of make a career out of my riding and stuff and you know, making appearances on shows on that door channel, shoot the videos and stuff like that. You know, that's when it's want live to do. Yeah, it's it's a it's a real fulfilling and fun way to make a living, that's for sure. It doesn't feel like we're that's pretty lucky to be able to do it, that's for sure. Um. You mentioned squirrel hunting, and I was actually just reading a pretty recent piece of years and you were talking about maybe it was your dad or some other friend of yours who said that the best way to get good at deer hunting is to be a squirrel hunter. I'll tell you my dad and my grandfather said that, and also Harold lied or not Hal you know, told me they don't lainew many times he said, you know, if you shuns pretty much the foundation and sad thing today is a lot of kids are it's out well necessarily sad, but a lot of kids just jump out into the deer hunting in Turkey on him because the deer and turkeys so plentiful now, whereas you know, when I was a kid and from the older generations when they were growing up, there just weren't a lot of deer and the zero turkey's. So we you know, we squirrel hunted and rabbit hunted and and of course with deer hunted back then. But there was a roll of the difference between now and then, you know, back in those days. If if you've seen it though you were calling your friend, you know, tell them about if you've seen tracks. I mean, you just have the numbers that we have today and and that's um, it's kind of a good and a bad thing. The good thing about that is is there are fewer deer and whatnot. You really had You really had to know your stuff. You had to be able to scout and and and know what to do and be able to find sign. I know how to react to that sign and and uh, you know, it really made you a better deer hunter. But going back to the squirrelling poor, I mean, I I strongly believe with those guys that you know, scoure hunting is the foundation, because that's where you you learn your woodmanship skills out. You know how to identify the different masteries, how to be quiet, how to dis preen your surroundings, reading an animal's body language, reading sign uh sneaking through the woods, all that stuff you know you learn from squirrel hunting. Yeah, I was one of those kids who didn't get into squirrel hunting. I wish I had. I shot squirrels, but it was kind of you know, sitting behind the house and you want to shoot something as a kid. And I did that, but I never took it serious. And I wish I had. UM probably have learned a few important things earlier than I did. Um that woodsman shipped, like you said, is is pretty underrated these days, isn't it. Yeah, it's it's underrated. I mean, you know a lot of people you only watched the TV and I see a guy in uh, you know, it's over manicured food plot and in a shooting the else and and you know it was rand astrail cameras or he's had a guy. So you know, eight thirty, there's gonna be uh, you know, one forty class one class book come out, you know, from the east and the end of the field and and all that's great. I mean, I'm you know, definitely, I definitely not cutting over food pots stuff like too. But growing up here in the mountains, we didn't we don't have a lot of food plots or fields, and you just had miles and miles and miles of woods. And that really made you, like I said, you had to have your woodness ship skills on the on the next level, you know, to get to where you had the opportunity even you know, see if very much less shoot one. So it's you know, it's a lot, it's a it's a lot different. You know, hunt around here and stuff. And I squir hunting, you know, without a doubt, maybe a better you know, all around hunter, maybe a better deer hunter and a better turkey hunter. And um, you know, growing up, like I said, I hunted my pappa, my dad and my uncle's and we used to go to beat each other at squirrel one. I mean it was you know, we love the hunt part, but we also like to get back of the truck and swapping stories and see who killed the most. And we usually used bolt Action twenty two with scopes and we try to head shoot, and we wouldn't even count the squirrel, you know, unless it was head shot. So if you brought back six squirrels and only four of them are head shot, you know you only killed four and so forth. But it and and that's no thing. You had to really pick your shots. You have to be able to snake and and uh um, squirrel hunting. I mean, I think a lot of people that didn't grow up like I did doing it, they've got a long impression about what you know, what it is. I mean, you know, you when you're in a deer stand, it seemed like the squirrels where ever, or I mean, they're they're running up the tree besides you there, you know before on the all time you sometimes you think they might be dear and that the squirrels are running. Everybody think, man, if I you know, if I was scrowling, you know, the scrowling stuff is easy. But if you scure hunt, you know, pressured areas, the squirrel has been hunting and stuff. I mean, you've gotta be able to snake, you'll be able to move through the woods. And and the way we always did it, we didn't just go out and flat then under a hcornut tree that had cuttings under and you know, wait for the squirrel that you know come to us. We would move through the woods, you know where you have to be able to snake and and and identify the different trees and nowhere to go and all that kind of stuff. You know, look up at their rising and you can see if the little branch go down and back up, you knew that was a squirrel. You could identify that even if it was windy and stuff. And um as far as like like I said, we've talked with rifles and and a lot of times you'd come up on like a beech nut tree or acrenut tree or wide oak tree and then have multiple squirrels in it. And you know, guys that aren't experienced squirrel hunters were just ease up there and shoot the first squirrel they got a good shot at and you can kill it that way. But the way we would do it is we would cherry pick the tree and what I mean by that is if the if the tree had six squirrels in it and they were spread out on tree cut and uh, we would get in position to shoot where we could see most of the tree and would get a lane and you would you would shoot the squirrels lower down and work your way up and you put space in between your shots. And um, if you would do that, you could end up killing five if the squirl has and it's the tree at five or six worlds, you could kill up to five and possibly even six worlds if you did it right. And the reason why you start the bottom. You know, if you shot one out the top and it fell through the other ones that were in the tree, you know eating, they would they would see that, they would get spooked. But if you shoot the lower ones out and and uh, you know, put some time in between your shots and wait a lot of times when the first shot, even with the rife, we know they stopped cutting, like you know what was that If you don't let they're looking around or being wary and and if you don't move and don't do anything sooner or later want to get greeting start you know, cut of hiccornut again and drop a little bit of another, so well it must be fine that one, and so I'm will start eating and they don't start eating again, and you pick another one out and you could, like I said, you could put some space in between the shots and you could clean out an entire toree. And you know that's that was the wordsmanship skilled part of it. And um, today a lot of it seems like a lot of hunters to get away from, you know, from the wordsmanship skills, which is which is kind of silly. Yeah, it's interesting that that that idea of working the tree like that. It's sounds just like, uh, you know, I've been getting the fly fish in the last half decade or something the same thing, like work in a pool and start at the back and work your way out because they're facing upstream. Um, that's pretty interesting. You talked about how when you're deer hunting, it feels like squirrel hunting should be easy, you know, because you're seeing all over the place. I feel like we get the same thing as deer hunters. When you talked to a friend or family member who doesn't deer hunt, and they're like, while you're out there all the time, it seems so easy. I seen when I drive to work every day, Right, I hate that. Yeah, I think they could be. And a lot the start of that one as a brother law or somebody was a deer hunter and he's talking how lucid they were and all that kind of stuff and and wrong kind of making fun because he didn't deer and the other real lousive. You know, I've got head bites on and blowing the horn and up doing up hitting one. But it's it's a whole different ball game when you're you know, in the in their environment and you know a lot of people go like the state parks and stuff, and I'll see the deer and the deer little walk right, bim and whatnot, and you know, and they'll feed, but you know, sometimes find up somebody's hand and stuff. They think, Manda's this deer and it's not hard at all. And I'm thinking, yeah, i'll tell you what comes in in the mountains with me after about the first week a gun season and and talk to me about how easy it is. It's a different different worlds and they're like, you're in their environment. They've been hunted before. Yeah, a whole different story. So speaking of that, then when this episode is going to drop for the world to here, it's gonna be smack dab in the middle of what probably most people consider to be the best hunting of the entire year, right in the middle of that first two weeks in November. Um, that period is still ahead of you and me right now as we talk, though, So what are you going to be doing over the next couple of weeks? What's your what's your planet? You hunt at home and you're traveling? What are you got in the store? I live in, like I said, in south east Katucky, round in Tennessee, Kentucky one and um Kentucky and Tennessee. And I'm gonna go up to Ohio this year, and I gotta try up. There'st got some proper people will go on in southern Ohio and think about may possibly even going to uh southern Indiana, depending on you know, how the other states and stuff go. But you know, from now till January, I'm planning on being in the woods as much as as much as possible and as um farther rutting stuff goes. I think, you know, there's a you know, the myths of you know that Big Bucks just lose their minds and they're out just chasing and then you know they're they're running around everywhere. You know, there's a little bit of truth to that, but I think sometimes people get uh, you know, uh kind of a false idea about what what that entails. You know, you're not just gonna flop out in the woods and sit down and you know a monster buck run right over top of you. And sometimes that does happen on them. You always show the story about the guy that hadn't scouted all years, didn't even want, you know, the plan on hunting, and and well and caused all his buddies decidety was gonna go go that and borrows the gun or buy the gun at Walmart the night before, you know, and just and and sitting out there and and and I just dropped him off anywhere. And he's sitting out there and gets board, walks around or scientistical back to the truck, you know, the warm up or something and ends up shooting a boon a truck at buck. And yeah, you know that that can happen, you know, because there's a lot of factors. You know, they're big bucks are definitely on the moves. You're seeing more daytime activity. And then you've got the hunt pressure in the woods, which is, you know, bucks that are normally nocturnal can get bumped and jumped and ran right over top of somebody, you know, and and that does happen. But that, you know, is pretty much luck. And I'll take luck, don't get me wrong. But if you want to be consistent, you know, you've got to be able to you gonna have some strategies and tactics, you know, for hunting or run. You can't just go out there and hope for the best. And you know, like buying a lottery ticket, you know you can't. You can't have that mentality that will get your buck right now and then where if you do it the right way, you know you can you can get bucks season after seasons or in the rut. Yeah, so would that be in the case then when your rut hunts kick off here maybe today or soon in the next few days or whatever it is. Um, what do you what does that look like for you? Do you go in and you know, are you thinking just basically a right, I've got this property and hunting, and I have got this many spots set up for certain wind directions and you're just gonna check the wind and do it or or what's on your mind right now leading up to these next couple hunts. Well, I'm a firm believer in um uh, you know, there's there's transitional phases of the rut, and how you have the rut depends on what transit, you know, what current transition that you're in, and what the deer doing. And um, you know, some guys go out there and they find some you know, fresh scrapes and rugs and some hot sign and they throw a stand up or pop up the blind and that's where they're gonna hunt. And sometimes that works. Um, but I've learned, you know, over the years, I've kind of find two my tactics, you know, to meet each transitional phase, you know, activities going on like right now, I rank cameras this morning before I before I was talking to you here, and and um, I've seen, you know, we're going in. I've seen some scrapes that weren't there, you know a week ago, you know, with scrapes and rubs are starting to pop up and everything and and it's like I said, a good time to be in the woods. And what's going on right now, and its particular transitions what I call the it's the scouting and roaming stage. And what I mean by that is the mature bucks that are gonna be doing a lot of breeding. What they're doing right now, you know, they're obviously their territorial they're they're scraping, and they're rubbing, they're doing all that. But what they're doing and I've got like on one property, I've probably got um one of the locations on mine probably right now, I've got ten cameras out. And when I'm starting to see and I see this every year, it's about this time of year here in southeast Kentucky, what the bucks are doing. They're out scouting for those and when I'm they're going to the dough hotspots, are going to, you know, dough betting areas, dough feeding areas, the dough travel routes, that kind of stuff, and they're scouting when those dolls are at and when they find a hotspot place like that, they are usually they're gonna leave a big scrape. You know, they're gonna make some rubs, are gonna leave a scrape, and they're letting those does know that, Hey, you know I'm here, and they'll also go you routinually go through and check those and the dolls will go in and urinated and let them know that they're there even when they're not in hete. I mean, I've got I've got video and pictures right now of those urinate and you know, in in the scrape and some of the mock scrapes that I've made that you know, they're not in heat, you know, by no means, but they're just letting another you know that they're there. And there's I've got young bucks, you know, coming up and working you know, established scrapes and mock scrapes that I've maink. But while I talk about the scouting and roaming, we had one buck that um about two weeks ago. He was in a you know, a textbook feeding the bedding pattern and um, in Kentucky you can put out corn and you know, apples and stuff like that. It's legal to put that out here during deer season. And uh, there's a ton of acrons this year. And I had a spot that's down in the hollars, you know how the in and there's a lot of white oak and red oak and pin oak trees. And and how Sybio had some corn and stuff like that and had a camera over the feed and we had this deer coming in you know sometimes you know, right after dark, sometimes the middle and I you know are sometimes before we went back to bed and and every now and you had a little bit of daytime activity from it. But he was mainly feeding in bed. He's what he was doing. And about a week ago I started we started put that some mork scrapes and stuff on other cameras on this same property, and he was a good mile a half two miles from where we've been getting and uh, working on mark scrapes. And we had another mark scrape probably about a mile a half from there, and he was on it the same day, like two hours later, he was on it. And what he's doing is he's going around in those areas, he's working scrapes. He's letting those know he's there, and he's getting an idea where the those are gonna be at because he knows this. This isn't his first rodeo. You know, he's a veteran. He's probably a five or six year old buck, and uh, he knows that when the dose start coming into ansters. He's know whether they're going to be at and he'll make a milk run. And what I mean by that, he'll go to each spot, sit check and looking for those you know in those areas, and they'll go the next spot. He'll go the next spot till he finds one. And he finds one, he'll try to lock it down and breed and then he'll go right back again. He'll go on that that same you know, those same areas. He's just going to each area. It's kind of like a gobbler all the strut zone. You know they got they got strut zone. They'll hit one strut zone and they'll spit and drum and gobble and if they if the hens come to them, you know, they hook up or not, they'll go the next struts. I'm gonna do the same thing the bucks are kind of doing there in that mode right now, like they're they're scouting and romans and and looking for the area that you know when when the dig show starts, they're gonna know where to go. Yeah, what time period do you think that that scouting roaming period consists of, because right now we're talking on October, But when do you think that usually starts and stops, give or take. That's usually around the ear. And I mean, you know I've seen it, you know another state's line. I'll find it the Illinois. I found in Kansas. I'm in a lot of the place and usually you know, the Midwest, and it's usually um towards the end of October, and they'll go away up to about the about the first week of November, and then the second week of Novembers when you start seeing a second phase around here, which is the you know they're they're they're cruising and and and I actually sent checking and looking for those to breed. You know that that stuff's going on. And then then you know, going into the chasing and breeding stage. Start ahead, go bug ahead. I was gonna say, can you elaborate then on that second and third stage it a little bit more. Yeah, the the stage is wow. I used to breakdown. I've written ague stuff about you know, you've got the pre rut, which is the you know, the beginning there and uh, that's usually when season comes in and they're usually locked to a textbook feeding bedding pattern, that kind of stuff, going to watering hose and know it's a little bit warmer during that time, and then it'll transition into you know, get you up into October, and a lot of biologists and stuff refor to that is, uh, that period of it's a it's a late pre rut, but you also start seeing um, some activity that makes people think, oh my gosh, you know the ruts early this year. It's way early. You know, I hated that. Every year I get I can't tell you all, Like on Facebook, I get messages from people I don't even know, man, the ruts early this year. I see the buck chasing the dough and and they're not like you know, I mean as a hundred hundred you know, since I've been able to walk. You know, people I said, well, those guys are lying. They're not, but they're actually seeing some activity with the lots of what they're seeing. They're seeing the younger bucks, you know that that are they're wanting to breed. They're fired up, they're anxious. They don't just don't know what they're doing. They don't have a clue that those aren't an astor ship and they and they and you've seen it, you know yourself. You know hunting, you have three or four dolls out feeding, buying their own business. No sudden, you know, a spike or a little basket rack will come in and you see that they'll start getting nervous, you know, right off the bat. And he comes in, you seem he'll like bristle up and make a show one that he'll try to come up on one and and try to climb up on her, and she'll run off, and then and then she'll stop, and then and then they'll start feeding again. He'll feed a little bit, and he'll go to another one, try to it. And then sometimes you'll get on one and they'll chase them plumbat of the out of sight. You know that happens. But you know, those doughs aren't ready to breed. That's not a rut. He's not he's not breeding those doughs. But what does happen sometimes is biologists will tell you that the oldest dose in the herd will come in, you know, coming Estra's first, and a lot of times that is me October. And you actually see a mature buck on a you know, on a dog like that, you know, pushing her or even breeding or whatever. And then people think, oh my gosh, you know the ruds early, but the rest of the majority of the herd, I'm not going to come in, you know, the asters until about the second week in November, aunty or now that I mean, And that's going to vary from state to state. You know, when you go south, you've got you know, it's way later than that. But you know, but around here about the second week in November all the way up to light November twenty five is when you know a lot of the breeding and stuff is going on. So so those bucks are once they're moving into that cruising phase, then they're starting to really hit those key dough areas just more often and more in daylight. What you're saying, yep, yep, yep. We got some of our I got a video, one video. I got several videos of the buck I was telling you about a few days ago on two of our Mark scrapes. And we usually put those cameras on video mode because I like the video model where your batteries down a lot quicker, you know, and if it takes a lot longer to go through the videos. But when you put them on a Mark scrape like it, I mean, I love seeing I love I love watching that I love watching them, you know, walk up to and urinating the scrape, put the rack up in the old king branch and you know, lick on the branch, doesn't you know, bite off branches? Do you know? Work the thing and plus what that does that you know, pictures can be deceiving, you know, depending on how close the deer is to the camera, the lighting, the angle of that kind of stuff. Because you know Nel as well as I do. You know, in the past, you know, I'm sure you've got pictures before you think, man, I'm on a shooter. You know that that's a shooter. And then you get a couple of pictures a couple of days later, and you know it's the same deer, Like you don't have a you need crack like maybe a kicker on this G two and stuff. So you know it's the same deer. And you're thinking that there might need another year, right, that there might be a three or four year old, when I was thinking it was a five year old. And then you know, and then you see in person, then you then then you'll love. But with the video they come up, you would get all angles of the rack. You know you're getting on you know, with their head down, their head up sideways, and that you can you can judge them a little better. And plus, like I said, just cool watching them watching them work those scrapes. My son last year, I think I was like him and him and he killed He kept one over the mock scrape that uh that we made, and um, it was awesome coming and and uh, he was wanting to shoot it right off the bat made him. I made him wait just a little bit because I wanted to get that footage, you know, at work in the scrape. And and that's it's easy to say when you're running the camera, when you're buying the camera, you can say stuff like that, But when you're you know, you're behind the gun or behind the bow, it's a different different story. But he was patient. He let me get some good footage of it, and he knocked in the nerds. So um, like right now, you know, I'm I'm fired up. You know, I wish I was in the woods. I'm having to work today, and um, I wanted to take some time to talk to you, and I go go right back to work and get everything done. I'll try to I'll try to take some time off, you know, our gun season comes in here the second Saturday November. I try to take some time off, you know, during that time, hunt my son and my dad ands I'm I'm excited about it, but I thought the being the wood right now, right now is one of my favorite times to be in the woods. UM for the next few weeks. UM this scattering the Roman stage I was telling you about, you can, They're really territorial during that that period you're starting semi more daytime activity and going back to these transitional phases. I try to adjust my tactics and my setups, my strategies to that, you know, the current phases and that that we're in and like right now, you know, I'll use mark scrapes, I'll hunt over existing scrapes. UM. You can. You can, you know, you can be versatile, lookin on what kind of situation stuff you're in, and you can you can go all out and and and you know, hit them with tactics that attack all three senses, which I like doing, you know, tacking their eyes or nose in their ears. And and one way of doing that is you can take our nose we know, with sense and stuff and take her years with calling and tacked their eyes with a decoy. Um. I've used um like up in Illinois and especially Illinois it's a good state to deco. And I've used decoys are in here too. You know during the boat season. I don't do that much turn the gun seasons will get shot season to somebody come in and it looked like Swiss cheese or decoys when they get done with it. But I kind of like, you know, by one, you know, you can get away with that. I'll put a I'll put a buck decoy out and and uh they're you know and marking mox scrape and and put some um some chartial glance in and dominant buck urine and and um. If I'm not seeing anything, I may I'm even blind called a little bit to a you know, a couple of agitated you know grunts or smort waves or something like that. An't get one to you know, to come in that decoy idea what time or which phases of the rut are you trying? That? Is that just uh, you know roaming and scouting time period? Is that like you you've gotta you need to match your That's a good question. You need to try to match my decoy set ups. My calling tactics everything to go like like I said, like the current transition, like right now, you know, a single buck decoy, like an intruder buck decoy is a good tactic to use, and I'll use it over the next you know, the next couple of weeks and um um, you can put them out and and and and you know, and just kind of get a feel for what the they're doing. I mean, if if you see them, if you're starting to get some day to my activity bucks working an existing scrape or a mark scrape during the day and that kind of stuff, and there you can see their nexts are swelled up. I mean you can see a big difference. I mean, like a couple of weeks ago, you know they look normal. Now they look like monsters. I mean they're two and three year old bucks are looking like they're you know, they're next and stuff for NFL line and they're huge and they're swelled up and they're just like, you know, look like different animals now and you know their territorial it's what they're and you can key and on that exploited if you if you do it right. But I'll use a I'll use a button and not all the time. I mean, I'm not saying every time I go out and set up, I'm attacking all three. You know, in the right situations, I'll take a buck be coy and and like I said, I'll use some dominant buck heren and and um some tarsal gland and stuff like that and and uh and just see what happens, and occasionally hit him with some some column things is you know, just do some like agitated grunts. And another good tactic is one you can do uh with that that same scenario, you can do a grunt and rub and what I mean by that, you can take an antler. Um. You know, if everybody's got most people got sheds and stuff, take a shed antler and and when you get their things set up, especially during the long periods where you're not seeing a whole lot of action and stuff. And sometimes if the if the deers within earshot, you can you can take that antler and you can rub it on a Samplin tree, rub it and do a couple of agitated grunts. Rub it again, you know, And and and it's all about realism. I mean, you know, deers here and a lot of a lot of people go out and and they've watched the outdoor channel. They've seen a guy rattling them in of Texas, and they'll go out and they rattle like cray easy and they do this and do that, and they're they're you know, they're doing it way too much and way too loud, and and they're not seeing a whole lot of wonder. Well, heck, that worked on TV, but it didn't work here. Well, you've gotta match your calling tacttes is the current transition. So what I'm saying like this this rub and um, this scrunt and rub tactic, I mean, it'll work because that's what they're doing right now. Their territories. They're making rubs and they've they've got their quarries established, like you know, this is my domain. This is where I'm gonna be breeding that. These are my dolls. You know, let's have the dominant bucks looking at it. And if you went in there and worked his scrape or made a mark scrape in his area, and then he's within the near show and he may be you know, bedded down, and he hear you in there grunt and going on and making a rub and stuff that that ticks him off he doesn't like that, you know, and they'll they'll come in. I I killed one. Um, it's probably been three or four years ago. It rant on the Night and Hill Show on out Door Channel, and it was here in the mountains and we got in there as the evening hunt is about this time of year out here, and the buck we had on camera was completely nocturnal. I mean, he was just he was a ghost. I mean I had, like I said, I had ten eleven cameras out and you know, had him pretty much paid where he was bed and had his stage in area where he was feeding that at his travel rail. I knew all that stuff, but we just won't get a whole of the daytime activity. And then he started showing up some during the day and working on Marks Grave when he was out you know, like I said, he was at Romans Scount looking for those and I knew that was the time I could capitalize on, you know, take advantage of it. So we got Litree and I The anny thing is we got in there, the cameraman and I and UM, there was a there was an already a couple of those. It was one of those cloudy, overcast days and I had to work, but I got in there early. I mean I left work a little early and got into a three thirty. You know, you know, they were already in there, and uh so we had to sit there and wait, you know, for them to kind of kind of feed out. And I had, luckily, I had had the camera that the wires camera sends the pictures to your phone, which was cool because I knew before going down in there if there was any deer in there. He had the camera facing towards the double set stands, and you know, I had a pretty good idea of with any deer you know, in that area and and and we could see those those so we basically just let them feed on out and left and uh so we smuckle that in there, didn't bump any deer guy in the stand and got everything got set up and just perfectly and co front coming in overcast, cloudy, I mean, just you know, deer hunter's dream got in there, and we had a couple, um, we had a couple of basketbacks come in and you know, they were coming in and they were seeing a little bit and they were and then they got too close to see their next bist or up and they they'd lock up and push each other. They weren't like fighting violently or anything like that. They just push you due back and forth, and that all that stuff was going on, and uh, we see them on that to join everything. And at that time the hulla blow us a cow comes up and those deer lost their minds. I mean they blew and they ran right down into the area with a buck that we were hunting where he was generally been betting at. So you know that that could have messed up the entire hunt because I know they ran about a top of them. They were blow in every few minutes. I was like, oh my gosh, you know, like, man, that's that's a perfect thing. And that's even right before a co front, I know, I mean just had it my guy. I knew he was gonna probably come out and give us a shot. And out here these jokers are down everybody. I'm just going crazy. And um, what I've learned though a long a long time ago hunting and as I've seen, like we was talked to, when these a lot of these young bucks chase those and they're not ready to breed, those dolls will will blow luck that you know, when they're being harassed and aggravated. And I've seen them blow lup, you know, just like they would if they've they've seen something they didn't like, or they you know, they picked up human sing or colley, since they do that, but occasionally do it because of that. So I did that. I blew like a duck with my mouth, you know, back where he's at. I mean, I did it like a little young buck tending grunt. You know. I've got a grunt call that I can adjust, you know, sound like a young bucks, sound like a doze, sound like a you know, mature buck or whatever. And I did like a little young buck tendon grunt, you know, and like he was a asser. And by that you're just saying, like about you, it's kind of it's kind of it's more of a nasally type grunt. You know. It doesn't have that day to have that base to it, you know, but you can tell us a book and and uh, I did that, and it wasn't I've got a list off him. This is not just some you know, just some some un story. I mean, this all happened and it ran out that door. We were sitting there and I had a young cameraman at the time, and and uh, he was crazy about deer hunt and he'd killed some deer, but he had never you know, he was always an impression his day and granted a hunter around here. And and you know, people just didn't call a lot, you know, because you just call them what. They didn't think Colin was very effective and all that kind of stuff. And and a lot of them it seemed to you know, the shows on TV with the Hunt Texas ner Rattle and you were just running for every direction and they tried to hear it didn't work. So they just said, how call it doesn't work here? And Colin does work. Colin works everywhere. You know, your vocal everywhere. It's just you're just gonna match what, you know, what they're doing at the time we're calling. And of what happened was we're sitting up there and he said, why why did you do that? You know, he's whispering using the standing by me, and I told myself, thought to take right after that, I'll take what I was done, you know. So he was there and thinking, you know what, what was he doing that? And um, all of a sudden down in the holloway or you know, deep at deep pitch and he goes, he goes. He his eyes got I mean bigger of saucers. He said, if you said you take up with somebody somebody called a grut cause and no, that's that's not that's not somebody, that's that's that's that's that's a that's the buck. And that's the right where he beat at those bucks that just had ran down there. Only and um, he could hear we start hend stick. It was dry at starting sticks breaking here and that Steady walk, I mean he was just he come in all stiff flag like Frankenstein, you know, all stiff legged, bristled up mad. I mean he was. He was mad and I could literally hear my camera and breathing. I mean he was, I mean he was in the stand above me. But he was just so fired because he never heard a bug be vocal and and it's Stuart was before he got up there, he'd never heard by Bucks noort Ways before, so he's seen it on TV and that kind of stuff. But when he heard that, I mean he was just he was just about to lose his mind. And so it comes up there after smort Ways, Steady walked up there, hit my marks great wore it out. We got footage of it just wearing the mark scraped out. You know, it's pollen and dirt's gots rack up in the Reagan branch bit and stuff. It's your and I mean it's awesome, just just I mean, just beautiful footage. And it comes on that from Mark straight who comes over right her most of the calling and right into one of my shoot lanes and I was all right at full drawing and I smacked it. I mean he watched it fault inside of the staying. It read about forty yards and you know, piled up. But um, that hunt would in my opinion, you know, it's sometimes it's hard to say what would happen, what wouldn't have happened. But in my opinion, if I hadn't done the calling there, I don't think that buck would have come out after dark. I think it would have been thinking, you know, a predator jumped those those young bucks made him better on it. But there was something there was possibly something drew up there. If he was going to go through it had probably been after doorter. But I think when he heard that he heard them doing that and he heard the uh probably got him alarmed. And then when he heard me do the you know that ten and grunt and then me, do you know, I'll blow in my mouth, you know, right when he was doing that, when I was doing the tenor grunt, I think he was convinced at a buck it might have been a little bit bigger than the two that ran in on top of him. Was up there head ran them off, and them was up there harassing that though, And that's what I think he thought, and he was gonna go up there and let him know who who the boss was. Yeah, So what about I mean, you mentioned the fact that calling can be effective if it's done, you know, at the right times to match the right time of year or situation. So what about some of the other typical calls we're thinking of, like a snort, wheez or donast something like that. When's the right to something like I'm trying to me in the ruption. What what I'll do right now is we're doing this territory or scout in the Roman stage, I'll do some of the agitated grunts, little deep grunts. I'll do that grunt and rug technique I was telling you about, and um and stuff like that, and the snort ways. Um. I usually don't do UM until I see a buck. And if I see a buck and it's at a bow range and it's going the opposite direction or you know, it's going away from me, I might already say I'm not going to get a shot. I'll hit him with the stort ways of the short ways of tricky votivation. You can do it sometimes. And a buck or coming there wanting to I mean just bristled up, wanting to wanting to fight the world, And you can do it other times. And a buck that's been whipped and stuff, and maybe a mature buck and may even be a shooter buck, but if it's been whipped before or or you know, bucks are just like people. You know, You've got some people that you know you look in the wrong way, they're ready to fight you. And you've got other people that will go ten miles out of the way to avoid any kind of confrontation, you know, and and deer and stuff with the or the same way, especially once we've been with so I've seen dear you know, respond to short ways where they come in fired up, wanting to want to rock. And I've seen them where they you know, We're made them weary and they steal. They've come in, but they're kind of weary about you know, where's this buck added at the buck that's already with me? You know that kind of deal. I've seen them goes the other way, you know, you know with it. So I'll use the short ways. You know, if I in a situation where the buck's going away and I'm not gonna get a shot, you know, and and I'll hit them with that, and you know, sometimes it will turn around, and you know sometimes it won't. But the but this time here with my colleing saple is, I'll do that that that grunt and rub techniques I've told you about earlier. I'll do the some agitated grunts and I will do a snort ways, you know, depending on you know, the situation. And if it's in a situation like I thought about earlier, you know where a young bucks around, do a young buck ten and grunt and then do a dog blow, you know, like she's being a rasp bomb, you know, I'll do that sometimes. It just depends on what you know, what the situation is. But those are kind of calls I'll use on that now. Later on when I'm starting to see that, you know, going to the actual breeding transition of the rut, and I'm starting to see bucks chasing, you know, mature bucks, not the basket wraps with up with mature bucks actually you know, you know on doze and you know they're they're they're if you see breeding activity or then you know walking mind on pushing the dough or and actually breeding a dough, and I'll switch it up and that time I'll do more of the uh astrastoe bleeds and stuff like that, and uh the tend on the situation till on the bucks doll ratio in that area, I may even um, you know, during a long period, I may do a dominant buck tending grunt you know, louder grown you know them than tending the dough, pushing the dough and and and do the astrastoe bleeds and maybe it mix up a little rattling and fighting what they have because you know, bucks are still territorial whatnot and if they I mean how many times I've I've watched it on that door channel and I've seen it in first and I know you have to where you've got a buck chasing the dough and he's grunting, he's chasing and whatnot, and he's a pretty good looking buck. And another bucks that with the near shop heard that and here he comes in, you know, and sometimes he'll doing up with that buck and chaser, and sometimes those two bucks will fight each other. And that's a common scenario that happens. So you might do a tendon grunt and you know, into an astro stop bleeding into a agitated gun. That too some potting, you know, because that that's a snare that could happen. You know, bucks come in there there was a buck chasing a though he was on or and a more dombined buck come in and you know, confront of them and they broke it into the thought. So you can you know, you can mix it up. Now, what about rattling, because that's another one of those calling tactics, And I like the fact that a lot of your calling ideas revolver on trying to make a realistic scenario, you know, with the rubbie, the tree and everything. When you're rattling, do you do the same kind of thing? I know some guys that will put rattley antlers on a rope and banging around down on the ground so that rustles and the leaves or shake a tree or do you do anything like that. Yeah, I'll tell you what they do, and I'll probably some people listen. It's probably laugh at me for doing it. And I'm sure some of cameraman folks humors when I've done it until actually a buck comes in after I do it. And it's all about realism. I mean, it's the same time of turkey calling everything else. I mean, you've got to sound real. I mean, just got sound like a real scenario. And sometimes like when I'm doing it, you know, going back to the tender grunt and and you know, an astrastow bleat if I'm sitting there, you know, uh, and I'm not seeing a whole lot and loker or not and a lot going on. And sometimes especially if I'm going off the ground, and you could do it the tree stand tube, but just it's a little bit more risky trying to get back up in the tree if I'm in a blind and in an area where I think that they're that you're a pretty good distance from me, where I've got time to get back in the trail too, is uh, I've got like one one of the drunk calls I use. It's got the it's kind of a dampture on where you can you can adjust the vocalizations. You can go from like I said, a young buck to a dough bleat astros dowbleat to a dominant buck runt. And it's kind of tube. You can do a snort waves on it. You can do all that. So what the snails I'll do is I'll I'll actually, especially when it's dry, I'll get out and I'll just do a tend to go up, this light tend and grunt and nasally go up, and I'm moving with it. And I'll move and I'll be breaking sticks. I'm trying to make some noise. I'm I'm going through the waves just like you would. You would you know, you would hear if it was actually going on, and do an astros do bleed and they do it. And and if they're sitting there at therenthing air shot, they can hear that that calls moving. The bucks can get call shot I just like turkeys or anything else can. But when they're hearing a lot of times may have been called to. The calling is coming from the same exact spot. And just like a Turkey. If you make a call, they've ten pointed almost. It's eerie how how they can pimple exactly where you where you called from. The bucks are the same way. I mean, they can pimpoint exactly what that call is coming from. And if it's moving and stuff and they're hearing, you know, leaves ruffle and sticks break, and you're trotting, you know, like a deer. That that sounds. That sounds realistic. And a lot of times I've done that and then get back in you know, get back in my blunt or or you know, sometimes I'm not but I'm just sitting on the ground and got a makeshift blind, you know, lat up around me or come out in a tree and you do that. And it's crazy how how fact of that can be. I mean, it really can work. And I remember the first time I did it with my my son. He was feeling me and he said, the head he said, you know what, he said, it's crazy, he said, But if if you know, if I closed my eyes that stuff was going on, he said, I would have been sure that that was actually a buck chasing the dough. He s because it sounded, you know, so real, you know, with the lead and all that stuff moving and the same thing with that, that grunt and rub tactic I'm telling you about. I mean, you get real antler going up against a sapling tree and you're scraping it and the and if it's got leaves on it and and it's shaking and going on, and you stop a little bit and drun a little bit and put some time between the do it again. That sounds realistic. I mean that's something that they don't hear every day unless it's the real thing. So I think that, you know, the more you can add realism to your you know, to your set up, the better, the better off the odds or be that you you know, you get a shot. Yeah, I really I really like that. That's that's something not a lot of people take to that level, but it sure makes a lot of sense. Um, I'm gonna amit. You feel kind of goofy there, you know, trotting for relk and you're trying to sound like a deer. You know, you're trotting around and and and and stuff and and and you're thinking out I must look pretty you know, pretty silly right now. But it I mean it sounds real. I mean, you can you know, I've got it on video of us doing it. And and if you if you not looking at me, and you know, turn your head and you can you know here, you would think that that's actually what's going on. I mean that there's a buck chasing chasing. That was the same thing with the rattling. I mean a lot of people just break out bamplers or break out the rattle bag whatever they got and just start, you know, going crazy. And sometimes that works. But what I do with when when I write or you know, he's asking about the rattling and I got off on another. But what do you do on the when I rattled? Well, I'll start it out, you know, like a real scenario. I'll do an agitated just a deep buck grunt, grel real, you know, real real deep with some base to it. And then I may and I'll turn my head work because it's come from a nether direction. Just the vocalization on the grunt they've been doing, you know, another buck grunt, and the sounds a little bit different. There's two bucks coming there and they've seen each other and they know grunt that each other like hey, you better, I'm here, you better get out of here and the other one's doing the same thing, and then I'll hit a snort wee's you know, do that with them and if they and well that that bucks respond to another but coming up and then you know, I might do that as state relics coming towards them and they start with the you know, with the with the rattling you know, make makes noise and stuff tend to lead it up to that, and I just start out, you know, rattling. And I'm not saying just turn arounto doesn't work because it will depend on the scenario. But I always try to create as a realistic calling scenarios I can that you know, it sounds like the sounds like the real thing. That seems like, you know, I have better results when when I when I do that, and it's not I mean, it's not like on TV. You know people say it don't TV, especially now Texas, you know, because the deer you know, I've seen people just it just blows my mind. I remember the kid and the Outdoor cham Force came out watching some of these shows in Texas, you know, and being from Kentucky, I never have been the Texas or anything like that, and that those guys walk out there, and the s Darrow's and they crash thees big antwers together and just bucks are just coming running in from everywood direction like he's ringing a dinner bell or something. I was thinking, my gosh, I gotta get a set of you know, of a rattling I gotta get out there and do that. And then you go out there and do it, and you do it the wrong time of year, you don't do it right, or you do it too much, and and you don't have the wind right, you don't, you know, you don't, your setups not right and stuff, and it doesn't work. Then you get you start losing confidence that well maybe the dear, myer, they just aren't you know, they just don't respond to the columns. I hear that a lot of round here in these mountains, because I say, you know, this ain't this ain't kids, this ain't Illinois. You these deers don't, dear, don't respond. And you know what I'm sure of thinking, well, you you just not done it right, I mean, and it's not gonna work every time, you know, I mean, it's like anything else. I mean, every time you hit a deer, call you know, Doon and Crocus, I gonn run up there and jump in your lay up. It just you know, it just doesn't work that way. I don't care if you're hunting Illinois or Texas or wherever. It just doesn't work that way. But if you if you can match their vocalizations with the current transition and add realism to your call, and Colum can work. I don't care what states are, you don't care where your hunting. Okay, how much hunt pressure as there is, you know it'll it'll work. And I know that from fact, and and I've got the video to prove it. And you know I've got hunt after hunt after hunt. You know, when I'm public laying areas and and private only, it doesn't know that man ors. I mean, if you if you've done it right in a situation's right. You know, they definitely probably dearer vocal, no matter what states they're living in and how much pressure it is. Dear or vocal. I mean, that's just how it is. Yeah, it's interesting. It's one of those things that, like you said, a lot of people probably give up after trying a handful of times and not getting the response. But I feel like a good response rate to calls, I mean one out every every ten times maybe is what's honestly gonna happen. But usually that when you get that one positive response, it's it's so worth the ten other times trying or the night other times. Right, so it's it's worth the right thing, you know, the young man, do you know when you're you're staying on your out and girl, if you just you know, put the first pretty girl and hit on a little bit and she blew you off and and rejected you, you know, what do you do? You just go home and quit. Forevery never hit on another girl. I mean, that's not how it works. I mean, you know, don't you know what everybody's ratio the grants, racial is different on that. But I mean, you know, you've just got to keep doing it till till it works. Unfore you got to do sometimes I'm not setting saying, you know, climb up in your stand or climate your w to just sit there on a call the entire time you're out there, you're probably not going great results. But I mean colin can be a super effective way to generate shot. Like you said, the you know, one out of ten times if it worked at one at ten times it was well worth, but I thought that it didn't absolutely. I mean, so let's let's rewind the tape a little bit. Um. So we've talked about how to call to deer, you know, when you're at the right time of year, in the right places. But let's rewind back to getting in the right places again. We we we talked a little bit about, you know, especially in this kind of seeking or scouting and roaming phase first part of November, first couple of weeks, maybe these deer are going from dough hot spot to do hot spout check in to see if they're ready to breed. Um. You hear about this a lot. I mean, if anyone's read or listen to any talk about the rut. You hear about dough betting areas, you hear about funnels, um, and then you hear about one other thing, which is dear crazy during the right you can't pattern them. But what I hear you say, well, they're going back to hot spot to hot spot to hot spot. That makes me think maybe you can pattern um a little. So. So yeah, I'm curious about your thoughts on that because I've I definitely have some thoughts with chatted with a few folks that have pointed to some recent studies that show there's a little bit of pattern rble behavior. But what have you seen. What do you think about patterning deer during the run? Yeah, you you definitely can patternger during the run. I mean, and there is truth that there. It is chaotic. I mean, the truth of the matter is I'll use this example before, is that if a dough it's an eat, and she's got a mature buck on her and she decided to walk across a crowded Walmart park a lot on Saturday morning. If she goes across that park a lot, he's gonna go with her. That's what gets them killed this time of year, knowing by others, what gets them killed on the road and everything else. Wherever that dough goes, he's gonna go. That's you know, that's how it works. And you said, well, how do you know how can you pattern that? Well, you pattern what we just talked about. You need to go to those spots, you need to run trail cameras and more of those. It's I guess it's kind of it's great, but it's kind of accursed because like right now, I'm talking to you. My phone's vibrated. My cell phone has about I'm on the land line and my cell phone vibrate about six times. Let me know what. I've got pictures right now. They're there in front of one of my my trail cameras. And and that's keeping me up late at night because I hear my phone vibrated three in the morning, I'll jump up. It's like a kid at Christmas or see what you know in front of the camera. Sometimes it's coons, sometimes it's you know there, you know, and sometimes something else. But going back to what I was saying, you use those wireless cameras and stuff, and in real time you can know what's going on, you know, in real time, like if you get, uh, you know, Buck's going to a certain area one of those no hot spots and you know mid morning or whatnot, and you need to you need to try to hunt mid morning at that place. That's when he when he's going through there. Now, what won't be paid was that if he could when he goes to those spots like he, like David Hell used to say, you know, like God was making the milk run and Bucks making the milk run. Along with me by that they're they're going to those spots this spot and if they don't don't get there, they're going to the next spot then because they're going to the next spot. And the pot is that you can't pattern is if they go to one of those spots and they get all of though, you know, that's actually ready to breed. And he, you know, he's gonna go with her, and and a lot of times he'll try to get her. He'll try to you know, corral and push her away from high traffic areas so he won't be interrupted by I know, the buck. We have any competition, he'll try to get he'll try to push her a little bit, but I mean, you know, that's gonna mind her own. And she decides to go left, and he's wanted to go right. He can't persuade her and kind of push her to go right, and she ends up gonna left. He's gonna go with her, and you know, and and some dose they'll they'll make the buck work for it. They'll make them, you know, from a piece and and and and you know, and get them rended up and then you know, then they'll breed with them. So you know, the mind of the dough. You don't know which way she's gonna go, you know what's gonna happen. But what you depart that you can pattern is the areas that he's gonna be looking forward those and after he after he gets with the dough and he's pushed her off and he's bred or you know, several times when he gets done, he's gonna go and look for another dough So he's gonna go those same spots again. And it's all that time. And so if you can be in those areas, and trail camps can't help you on that, especially the wireless ones. You know, if you if you've got a prop to get some moss cameras and and you've got them in those spots and you're you're seeing a lot of mid morning activity or midday activity, or you know it could be right at day on or whatnot. That's the times you need to hunt because even if he's already got to go out of there, I mean how many I mean, name me a place where you you know there's only one dough. I mean most time of those those are a real family. When it will be you know, groups of dose and when he's he's already got one out of there, and when he gets done with her, he'll be back through, you know, try to get another one. And and you just gotta be there. And so there is some patterns to it. I mean, you can't just go out and and flop down and just hope, you know, hope for the best west of the rut. You know, where's it the boon and crocodad. It should be here any time. It doesn't work that way. I mean, you can't pattern. But they're at the same time, there's lots there is. There is some chaos in it. And the chaos or the factors you can't control. You and I can't control. We're an instrus that's gonna go after a boat gets on her. We can We don't know what she's gonna do. A lot of times, I don't think she knows what she's gonna do. You know, she's being pushed by him, you know, and she's you know, it's a breeding thing. She she may go with, she may go right, she may go back the way she came, but that Bok's gonna go with her, you know. So we can't we can't control that. We can't control hunting pressure. You know. Uh, that's another part of the chaos. There's people that don't hunt all year, they don't hunt any time, but they'll hunt during the rut. And and and one of the reasons why they've heard all the stories, you know, like we said that so on and so didn't even even need scared. He just they just put him somewhere. He killed, he killed, you know, the big buck in his sculling. Hear about that stuff all the time. So a lot of people, you know, it's like when the parrot ball gets up there to the multi millions. You know, people both ever played the lottery're gonna play the lottery. And the same thing going on with with with with the rutting deer says people are don't harley bow hunt or don't do anything that they get a little bit excited during the rut and they're just hoping for the best. And when you get those people out, a lot of them don't have confidence in the places that they're sitting at because they know deep then they've not scouted or they've not been running cameras, they've not put in the work, and they'll sit there and they'll get cold. Get here with that the grass is greener mentality where maybe I should go over here and look, maybe I should go over there, and they get out, they roam around, and then they inintentionally you know, jump Bucks and those you know, and they push them you know, wherever, so that you can't control that part of it. But the part you can't control is putting yourself in a situation where you've got a really good chance of of of of same one that's out looking for those So those hot spots are the key places. And I'm a firm believer if you can put Wiars cameras out and if you don't have Wiars camps, but the other can you know, the regular standard cameras out and and just kind of march what's going on. And it's trying to put yourself in the best position that you can. So let's dive in deeper into what those right spots are. We we've mentioned dough hot spots a couple of times, but let's talk a little bit more about specifically what kind of places you find to be those dough hot spots there in the right And then secondly, so part part one is where specifically or what specifically do these doe hot spots look like. And then number two is how he is set up on them, because lots of times we'll hear, oh, well, you know hunt down wind of the dough betting area, and that sounds great in theory, but how do you find the absolute right spot within the spot like that the killing spot down are? Can you answer me those two things? But that all goes to your scaling. I mean, that goes into your personal experience and you're scouting, you know, watching if you've got one of my favorite places obviously is is you know a preferred dough betting area, you know, and and you know where those are bed and that because that's where they're going to be at the majority part of the day. You know, there are in that lime and actually nocturnal even a lot of activity goes on and stuff at night and all that kind of stuff. And but during the bedding area, and that's a usually a daytime place. Now they do feed during the day. Stuff goes on during to day. They may get off the bed and you know, go go feed and come back, but that bed and there is where they spend the bulk of their time. So that's where I want to be. I want to spend the book of my time in a doe betting area. And that's not the only place I one, but that's one. If I can find a spot like that, and I rank cameras, and I see the way that does you know how they go into you know, how they're entering it, how there, And that's why I'm a firm believer using multiple cameras. I mean, you know, one camera tells you a little bit. Five cameras will tell you a whole lot more. And if I've got a dough bean an area, I make the truth three cameras on that bed area, so I can determine how the majority of the those and and deer don't follow a script. I mean you know, well, either you've been a situation we think this set up. I've got this tree stand here, the deer is coming from the west this you know the buck is That's how it comes in. And then you get up there and get set up, and the deer comes in from the least. I mean, you know they don't follow a script. But the more you know, the better off you are on how to set up on it. So if I know that those primarily the majority of them are coming in a certain way to the band area, they're exiting a certain way, and that tells me how, you know, I need to set up. And also if those cameras are gonna tell me is is are you know all the bucks coming through there? You know what time is a really coming through there? And when they come through there, how are they going in? Do they just go by and sent check the thicket from a distance, you know, get the win in their favorite scent check it, or they actually going into the thicket if they do go in, how they go in, if they get on the dough, how they're going out. All that stuff will tell you, you you know, if there's I can't you know nobody's here and say, well you find out the bed in the area you get down when you set up, Well, you know that may work and may not work. You you've got to do the You gotta do the homework on it. You gotta know how they're, how they're entering, how they're leaving the you know the prime times that they're that they get off the bed. Dear, don't a lot of people think that, Dear, just come in Buck's and those they come in they feed at night, they come in. You know, if you're lucky, you get them a little bit after daylight and they go in, they lock in on the bed and then that's it. You know, they don't move to the right at you right before dark or after dark and there they do that a lot. But dear, I've I've hunted dead in the areas my whole life, and I can tell you that I've never in my life seen dear that go in before daylight, lay down in the bed and they lay there till dark and don't move throughout the day. You, I mean, just put yourself in that situation, do you? And I've hunted all day it's hard. It's one they said, y'all hunt all day during the rut. But when you get in there two hours before daylight and sit down and and it's cold and whatnot, and you're sitting there and you sit there throughout the entire day, and if it's one of those days you're not seeing a lot of activity. It is hard to sit there like that all day long, all day till after dark. And I can tell you one thing. When you do do that, a couple of days of that, these guys that say, oh, I have trouble to sleep, and go hunt the rut, Go hunt the rut before day lute the dark. I guarantee you at sixty so it starts getting dark at five and six o'clock. And even I guarantee you when you get home, you don't want to eat or do anything, you just want to go to bed. Completely wears you out. And it's hard for the deer too. I mean, think about it, they're just sitting there all day. Well a lot of more what they'll do is they'll get up and no brows around. You know, you know, everybody wants to hunt food plots and uh, you know, when the acrons are dropping a lot of stuff is great. But the deer, a lot of their has been studies showing a lot of brows makes up a lot of big portion of their diet. And the brows on sapling twigs and honeysuckle and and you know at the akrons and stuff like that. They'll move around little bit. So a lot of times there will go down that have been pressure. We'll go down in bed before before it gets daylight. But a lot of times, you know, after that morning they'll get up and stretch. They'll get up and stretch. Um bucks are no tourists with getting up and and and going to the bathroom, you know, getting them going to bathroom, stretching legs, brad as a little bit. They may they may work as gray or do something. They go back and bed down four ft from where they were originally. Bad, but they will get up and move a little bit. But no one like I'm going back, got a little off track there, but going you know, no one where those those are bad bad, no one how they typically go in, how they typically you know, exit um is our mid morning. You know Brow's activities are getting up off the bed and moving around a little bit, and how they do and the more you can know about that the bed and I'll tell you exactly how to set up or let's take a second here to think our friends at Morton. Morton is the builder of wood frame, steel sided buildings. And we're out on the back forty right now as I speak. I am just dreaming. I said this before, but I think a Morton building would be perfect up here. We're actually sleeping in a fifth wheel. We pulled the fifth wheel all here that I was lucky enough to get to borrow from my in laws. That's great, but it would be nice if we had a building here that could be our skin and shack, that could be our bunk house, that could store our equipment. 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They've got some great videos over on YouTube as well. The story of their family business, the story of how they came to Wyoming in particular, I found really interesting, So check it out and happy hunting. You mentioned trail cameras a couple of times there throughout about a lot using that intel to to really get that detailed information and getting the right setup or know the right time to hunt it. And you mentioned how you're using wireless cameras and all that. Can you elaborate a little bit on where I guess more detail on how you're setting up these cameras for the rut sounds like put them around dough betting area sometimes. But are you placing them on scrapes? Are you're placing them on trails? Are you putting them in feeding ears and bedding ears and falls or or what like? Where are your cameras right now across your properties for the next two weeks? Well, for the next two weeks, my cameras are going to be on the mock scrapes. I may all established scripes on travel corridors that connect cart feeding areas and beating area is and and uh and if I'm finding the dough bending areas I'm putting them there because like I said, they're not they're not actually the bucks right now, the mature bucks, when I say they're Roman and scouting that they're not. They're not going to these though hotspot areas you know at that point to try to get an insterrastow because they know, I mean, the young bucks don't know. That's the ones that think, hey, I'm I'm gonna get to breathe, I want to breath. They're they're chasing everything now. They're chasing any though that will that they see the run, the run them down. They'll try they run them out of the coutry. That's why you start to see a lot of deer on the air state get killed and stuff, because well, let us be the root. Now you've got these young bucks harassing them. That's what's going on. The old bucks know that that's not that's not what's going on now. But what they are doing. They are going to those areas and they are scraped and they're leaving their scent. They let them know I'm here. They wanted those come in and leave their cent and let them know that they're there, and they want to want other bucks are in the area. So they're making those milk runs, going those places and they're monitoring those dolls or where they're at, where they're gonna be. And then when it gets a little bit closer, they're going those areas and sent check them and look for atually astro stowes and they get on one, they'll take her away, bread her, then they'll go get to the nurse spot, got to another spot. I just keep on like a circle, just keep going through those places and looking for the for those are right now. My cameras are on the traveel corridors that are connecting uh feeding areas to known dough betting areas. I've got them over mock scrapes and I've made I've got them over existing scrapes, and I'm running multiple cameras and I'm trying to figure out as much as i can about about each buck. Like the buck I sent you about the other day that came in and worked one of our mock scrapes. He was doing at mid morning on one heat hit one spot. Mid morning, he came off his bed area and he did about mid morns, like ten o'clock in the morning. We've got a great video of him working the scrape. About two hours later we got a mile and a half away at a different spot working another scrape. So they was making that run. And then about three and a half hours later we got him on another camera that closer to where he was bedding, and he had made a circle. Er that's what he what he'd done. I'm not saying that, you know, they're trying to run, I was gonna be in a circle, But I'm just saying aptitude, good scenario. It's like, it's like a circle. That's where he's going. And at those cameras that well, you know, tell me where you know, if I was gonna hut today, where I would probably need to right need to set up at How much detail do you pay attention to with those pictures? Are you looking at just direction of travel and time of day? Do you look at the conditions and try to correlate his behavior based off of something like wind direction or cold friends or bare mutch of pressure that did do you look at any of that thing you just said, every bit of that every it's like, um, it's like putting together a puzzle, and every every piece of information is an important pace. You gotta able to put it all, you know, put it all together, and I'll give an example that you know, my son killed one of the first big bucks. He killed U This is a true story. We got all of it was during the Kentucky uth season, and we've got all at one fifty eight point. It was a giant deer. I mean, it was hard for me not to go both one and I because it was a big deer. And the pattern, the pattern that we got on, you know, with it was and this is it might sound crazy, but you can you can ask him it that that particular buck was feeding on aprons. And once I got on him, I went to put a bunch of cameras out, so I knew kind of where he was staging, and I knew where he was betting at. I knew obviously where he was feeding at and whatnot. And I had a pretty good pattern. But the problem was he was pretty much you know, like most big bucks are, especially you know prior to the rut, he was he was nocturnal. I mean, you know, we were running a highly pressured area. You know, there's a lot of toaching that goes on around there. I mean, the the deer there, like the big deer like ghosts. I mean just you know, sad fact, but that particular deer and that early extuct youth season he was going. Um he would go bed before daylight and on rainy days this is this is I put this together. On rainy days he would get off the bed about mid morning and would sneak into that acron flat and neath those aprons. I mean, like clockwork. I mean, over about three week period, I noticed that the sometimes the only daytime activity was on rainy day days. Mid morning he would he was sneaking or eat acorns for about you know, thirty or forty mints and he got back in bed and um, as luck would have it, on the open day of Kentucky you season, Uh, they would calling for rain and I came here, my wife telling me, you make sure make sure he doesn't get you know, he was probably at the time I thought he was, I want to say, eleven years old to my random there, you know, and Mommy was being protected her. She's like, oh, you're gonna get him wet. You know. He makes you make sure you are you on a blind. I know we don't. We don't have a blind. I said, if you've got gortex, rain outfit. I said, it's not gonna be too cold. I said, we have to hunt during this rain. That's when that deer is moving. You know. She's, well, I know you do that because he just a little kid. And and uh she she said, you'll get him where he will he won't even want to go. That's definitely not what's happened now, you know, I'm trying to keep him out of the woods. Is a hard thing now, you know, after after do it all that. But anyway, so we got set up. It was gonna rain, and I told him I should just be patient, and but we got in our way before daylight, just to make sure we didn't bump anything and thing like that. And I told him us now that if if what I'm thinking is right, I said, this deer will show up, you know, about mid morning. I said, we met. I see a lot of activity you know from you know, at daylight on, but at mid morning he subjects to show up. So we sat there. We were sitting on the ground, had a little makeshift bline, were sitting in a high pressure area. I didn't want to put up a blind for people other people see her hunt because there's a lot of people down here, and no tourist whom they see a blind or see a stand or trying to hunt us close to as they can. They figure that guys put a stand or blind there for a reason. So I'm won't try to hunt cross. I try to avoid that. In those highly pressures that we had a little makeshift blind natural stuff I've cut and you know, blended us in good. We could move. We were sitting, they were sitting there. He was almost in my lap. I'm he sitting run aside me. We sat there and it rained and rained and rain, and we were getting wet, and we weren't seeing a whole lot. And I think at nine thirty in the morning, which is between nine and ten, we were getting most of the pictures on those rainy days. And he came just like hawkwork and he kills and I, you know, I've got all those cameras runna be different. I just had one camera out and you know, it was tending what I was saying. But we had, you know, probably ten cameras outlet on that deer, you know, and I knew exactly what it what it was doing. And at that point that went opportune. We had is when it was it would come out when it was raining. And there's little stuff like that no matter what time of the season. It isn't what time of the year and what phase of the ruts you could put. Um that they've got habits, I mean, they've got they've got habits and stuff that they do. There's tendency that they follow. I mean. And the more cameras you get out and the more stuff you piece together. And the good news is is the cameras that are out today are unbelievable. I mean, the one I just what I'm telling you about this, one of the ones I've just now checked. It's got the baramedic pressure, the wind. It will tell you the wind direction, the phase of the moon. Um, all that stuff on there and not not just the time and date and all that and and and send it to your phone where it's in real time. And and that saves me. I'm to go, you know, contaminated areas a lot of you know, scent noise and stuff, trying to go and check cameras and stuff because I can check it right there on my phone. And if I've got to work Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and during that time, you know, during that three day period, and I think about maybe calling in sick on Thursday, and in the three days prior to that, you know that the buck has done you know, X, Y and Z, and I know what he's doing probably on that Thursday, and when I take a sick day, I've got a good chance of chance of killing, you know, because I know what I'm doing in real time. I'm not having to take a day and go in the field and check a camera. I'm you know, right at home. I'm knowing what you know, no one what's going on. The truth of the matter is, if I could afford them every trial camera I have, the the wireless scam. Yeah, they're very handy tool. Yeah, but the bad thing is where I'm at in the mountains, there's we've got a lot of areas that you just don't have sales service from, no matter if it's Surprise or a T and T or whatever. You just don't know. There's just dead zones where you you know, there's not any towers and bad thing that user were you know, those are remote areas that used were a lot of the big deal. Yeah, so you don't you don't have to sell off claim. But even with not that you know, I've I've probably got everybody knows that if they don't want to get me for Christmas, for my birthday or something like that, they buy me a trio came I mean, and I'll take I don't care what kind they are, there, the cheap forty dollar kind. I'll take every one I can get because they're a vital pool. And I'm not saying, Um, there is a mistake that people make, you know, by thinking I'm not hunting because I don't have you know that you know that the choke cameras don't get everything. I don't care what model they are, how expensive they are, what their trigger speed is, how sense than they are. Um, I'll chock and you just because you put a choke camera up doesn't mean that you've got all that too. Just taken place where you've got that choe camera up. I mean, I've been a situation, has been in the stand and I've seen shooter bucks that we're all around the camera but never got in front of it, you know, not intentionally. It wasn't like they knew that the camera was there anything like that. It's just the way they were feeding, the way they were moving and they those got in front of them and everything else, and and the bucks didn't get in front. So you can't go solely on that by no means. But the more cameras you have out, the more clues you can gather, the more pieces of the policy put together, you can you know, eventually solve it and you can get a shot. And so I try to I look at all that, I look at that. You know, what was the Bearmick pressure, when the you know, when I was getting a daytime activity on three of my cameras, what was the Bearmick pressure, What was the wind direction that day? Why was that boat traveling that way? What what direction did he come in from? How long did he stay? Um um? The truck camera scrap and a lot of people they just don't they don't take advantage the full advantage of what all truick cameras can do for him. A lot of people will go out and they'll put up, you know, a trail camera, and they'll get a shooter buck at three o'clock in the morning, and they get them through three nights and it's twelve one, two, three o'clock in the morning, they go put a stand up right there and I'm thinking, unless you're gonna spotlight that there, that that's really not doing you a whole lot of good. You know, that just showed you where that buck is at. So when I get a three o'clock in the morning pitch or what I'm trying to do, I'm say, Okay, he's here at three o'clock in the morning. You know, I'll get out Google Maps and look at it. He come in from, you know, from the north. Where was he coming from? Why did it take him to three o'clock in the morning to get there? You know, was you know, where is he possibly batting it? Where is he possibly where is he going to? What is he easy? Going there? To feed? You need to put all that stuff together and that way, that way you know more of what to do, how to sit up? Yeah, now what about looking at pictures? In past years, we we talked to a lot of folks that are getting more and more into observing annual trends or annual patterns and some kind Is that something you key in on it all? Yep, there's places. I've got places here in my home state, and that the truth of the matter is, if I got laid up and put in the hospital or something, you know, weeks before or a month before you know, the road or gun season or whatever. That if I got able to go, even with that scout or even checking the camera, there's places I know that with confidence i'd go and have a good chance of killing the book because some of the some of the patterns just don't you know, they don't change there in these certain areas during the run. There always will be you know, and they're just big. There's the areas you can kill big books. I mean I've got places I've killed multiple big bucks out of, and yeah I rank cameras and stuff on the same. But the truth matter is that I could have you know, I'd have complete full confidence going and sitting in on even if I had never ran a camera and didn't know anything that was going on. They're just you know there there their rut hotspots, the places that you know the bucks were going on. We're gonna be and especially through here in these mountains um the way because they you know, our I suldn't even say that because of the flat land, low and terrain. It doesn't matter. I mean, there's the particular to train your hunting. There's gonna be features that terrain that will dictate how the deer travel from point A to point by. Food sources will change, hunting pressure will change. That stuff will change. But there's certain things that are gonna be you know, pretty much the same list or just some major, major, you know things that happened like this when comes into logs or you know, or or uh, food sources just completely changed or something like that. All that stuff can can change somewhat. But there's a lot of stuff that will be. You know, you hear about guys that kill big Bucks out of the same stand every year, and and they and a little brag about it. Yeah, I didn't scale, I didn't run a camera, didn't do anything, didn't put out. I just go up there. And I sitting at stand on Open the Morning and Gun season the last four season to kill the book. And and they've just got they've got a really good spot. I mean, they've got a spot that Big Bucks travel through and and you know that they can you can pull it off like that sometimes. But I like knowing the other way. I like no one what's in there, and I'll take luck and I'll take a surprise. I like I like having a buck that shows up that you know, be running cameras for three months and this buck was not on any of us, and he showed up during the run. I'll take that. I like that too. But at the same time, there's also as far as confidence goes, it's a whole lot easier to sit in the place from before daylight till dark. After you've worked hard all week, you're dead tired. Everybody knows how it is. I mean, you know, when you hunt, you know, like we do. You go when you're tired, you go when you're not feeling good. If you have a day off, you better go. You can't kill one off the couch you get. You've got to get out there. But one thing that will help you stay longer in that stand is those cameras. Knowing that there's a you know, a one fifty or one six or one for word is you're wanting to shoot. If you've got that buck on camera and you've got a general I did what he's doing, and and there's you know in your heart there's a good chance he's gonna come through and give you a shot. It's a lot easier to stay all day. That's the truth. Uh So we talked a little bit ago about dough betting years and doe hot spots, and then we're kind of zeroing in on that with cameras and everything. But another one of those big rut uh, I guess rut hot spots that folks like talked about a lot our funnels and pinch points and things like that. And I'm wondering with you hunting and kind of hilly terrain. Um, I gotta believe that's something that you key in on as far as the terrain features can you can you give us the scoop on the types of terrain features that you kean on during the rud and like the specifics of how to set up on that kind of thing, now, sure they What I try to do is during the rut, I'll try to find current feeding, you know, food sources, current feeding areas, and the end what I finally, you know, I'll put cameras on monitorate and you'll get especially if it's the open um. We don't have a lot of agriculture in the mount but we do have some fields and I do put in food plots you know, in places, but it could be acrons, it could be whatever. Wherever I find the food source said, I'll monitory food, soorce with cameras and see that those that are coming in, what times of day they are coming in and whatnot. And then I'll try to find out from the food source where would they potentially be going, you know, the bed and you can you know, do some of that lake working you do at home. You do want Google Maps look at it, say we know there's a here's the feeding area, and over here is a clear cut. You know it's overgrown, it's thick, you know, it's within you know, uh decent walk from there. It's away from the food source. Most are like bend away from you, away from the food source if they can, and um, they trying to figure out, well, how are they going to get from point A to point the water some those places. Then you go in there and and burn a little boot leather and walk around and find out and look for silent, for the worn trails, look for deer dropping, look for leaves, turn up with for tracks how they traveling there. And then when you find a primary travel route, if you use them, put some cameras on it and see what activity is going through, what times of data were going through, trying to connect it to the bed and area and do the same thing there and put some cameras and stuff on there. Um one of my favorite places, uh, some of my favorite spots to hunt, you know, on hilly mountless train. We've got some steep mountains. I mean I live in the heart of that Placian Mounds. We've got some mountains that go four or five benches up. I mean you're at the bottom looking up and you're thinking, you know, there's no way I'm gonna walk to that top, and then like their Turkey season, little gobble four benches up. The next thing you know, you're halfway up the mountain. You know that the deer and you know you you're seeing little pressure is coming from down here. Most people are lazy. You can't get a fuller up there. Most people are gonna walk up there. And then the back of your money of thinking that if I had a big duck, that's where I'd go. Then you go into those areas you start find big rugs and that kind of stuff. But one of the some of the places I like hunting um from right now all the way through Actually the Breen trade phase of the rud is like UM the natural travel corridors in these mountains like saddles, like you have a saddle or or a gap, and um um these deer on these mountain where these mountains working around here. A lot of it's been over the years of we've had some uh you know, coal mining was big and they've they've stripped some of these which is actually it's actually been a good thing for the deer because you've got that transition in between hardwoods into open coast trips and they reclaim and they put all the motive trees on them and those berries of deer eat them, Turkeys eat them, and they had like bed and in them, and there's the clover and and and stuff like that. So you've got the transition between hardwoods into in the coast trip and stuff like that. And um, you could be on top of the mountain, there'll be a holler down on the right side that's that's full of uh, you know, full of reclamation trees and there's clover fields and stuff like that that they go down in. On the other side of the mountain, there's a completely different you know, places that bossol might be a coast trip or might be a farm that's got farm land and stuff on it whatnot. And then if you drove to those places by the road, it might take you forty five minutes. On top of the mountain, you could drop down either one in five I mean that, and and and deer and other. So these deer in the sounds, they can cover a lot of ground, a lot of different ground by by the mounts by traveling on top of the mountains and then dropping off of me, you know. And and uh, we say hollers, I'm a hill building, but the correct association is hollow, so we call them hollars. That they can drop down in one hollar and go down those doughs and come back through and go down to another. And that goes back to that milk run task I was talking about. They'll go to those places. And that's why you always hear about these people saying brand cameras all year. You know, I've got a handful of decent bugs. And then from you know, from last week till now, there's there's been four new shooters show up, you know, and and all where they came from, well they you know, they've come in from a different area that they've had a different core living area. But they know that there's dose in those areas and within reach, and they're gonna go in there and you know and check for those dose. So that's what's going on. Saddles and gaps are good, uh, ridges points and I'm handing up in Illinois. You know, your your text book, your your your bottlenecks and pinch points, all that stuff. All lot of stuff is good. But there's bottlenecks and pinch points stuff everywhere. The key is to find a bottle on that some pinch points and the and the saddles and the gas that stuff that connect you know, we feeding area to the bedding area that the those are traveling in because those areas that when things start cranking, the bucks are going to be in. You tho' looking looking for those? Now, what about setting up on those kinds of spots so you find the right You find the right pinch point of some kind. Maybe it's a maybe it's cover getting shrunk down to a narrow spot between two fields, or maybe it's uh, maybe it's a saddle in the mountains, you find that pinch, how do you go about picking the spot to hunt on that feature? What's going through your mind? That tree? What's on my mind. The first thing in my mind is a or deer using it? You know all that you're using it? When are that? You know? When are they using it? How are they using how they how are they going from? Are they going from east to west, north to south? Which direction? And stuff? What I traveling in? And one of the most important things that told my mind at that time is once I figure that part out, is how am I going to access that area? How am I gonna hunt? And how am I going to exit that area with that buffet deer In the process, I said, it's one of big you know, dear big deer aren't aren't stupid? I mean they didn't get big by being stupid. You know, they're smart. Big bucks are smart, and they can pattern you either and you can pattern them. So if you're not taking any any steps to trying to figure out, you know, how can I enter, hunt and acted these areas of that bump gender process, you're shooting yourself from the foot because no pattern you, they'll figure out. That's when you start getting more nighttime pictures and anything. It's like, well, just coming by my stamp and everything's after dark, Well, more than likely you've hunted that stand or hunted that blind with the wrong wind direction, or you've entered it the wrong way, or you've exited the wrong way, and you've educated him. And now Buck's educated now, and it's going to figure out. And it doesn't mean that that buck's going to leave the country. You know that it takes a whole whole lot for it get a deer to just leave a core area. But what it will do that dear, that deer will know that you know, during these times a day, I do not need to be coming through here because there's a predator here that's trying to ambush me. I do not need to come through here. So but any spot at hunt, because if it's pre rut, rut, post rut, whatever it is, I try to figure out what the deer doing, how they're getting in there, how they're leaving, why are they going through there, what times a day? How can I get to that that area without bumping deer in the process and educating on man A lot of times, I mean, it just seems like it books out this way. The easiest routes here stands not always the best route you know to where you're hunting. And I mean it might be the quickest, not be the easiest. But if you're going through deer, if you're bumping deer, they're bedded, or you're going through you know how the sensitive areas and and and you know when you're alerting er your presidents, you're you're you're doing more harm than good. But a lot of people, um, a lot of people do that. They touch these guys that they don't take in. You know, they have I each time on the spot, I'm on the Weather Channel website, I'm going by our hour forecast. I'm looking at the wind direction, you know, and it's sadly it's not always right. But I'm at least doing that where I've got an idea. You know what wind I need to have to hunt that area, what the deer been doing, So I know all that, how I need to get in, how I need to get out. But a lot of these guys will see hot side, will throw up, they'll pull up a stand or a blind and they'll they'll hunt it every weekend, it doesn't matter what's going on. They hunted every weekend. And they're they're shooting ourselves from the foot because those they are getting educated on that and they're knowing the key times that you're hunting when you're in there, and they're feeling that pressure, and they're gonna make They're gonna adjust their schedule, you know, in order to survive. Their patterns are going to change in order to survive. And that's what that's what they do. Yeah, So you pick the right way to get in and out to these spots. You're thinking about how the deer using it. Now, how do you pick the tree? Well, I picked the tree that's gonna give me the best chance, all right, you know, they have to be a tree. You know, I don't have a lot of the ground, taking a lot of big bugs off the ground. I prefer to hunt at a tree. But that's not always you know, possible. Um, what I'm trying to do, I try to if if if the tree stands set up, I try to find and they're just gonna give me the most opportunities to get a shot within you know, within comfortable bow range. That's that's the first thing. The sacond thing is you know, Um, you've gotta make sure, especially right now, we've got a lot of leaves and stuff on the trees, and leaves are are starting to fall a little bit, but we the fold is still pretty thick. So you can get away with your tree stands ups, you know, put throwing up a tree stand. But when you've gotta gotta take in the mine. You know, here shortly the leaves are gonna start falling, the trees are gonna be bare, and um, you stick out like a sore thumb, you know it. From these places, you've got to have backdrop cover especially. You know, we do a lot of film, and you know I've done a lot of femilar ears. Don't have my aunt's famile whatnot. And you don't just have to hide you. You gonna hide you in a cameraman. And so you've got two stands, you've got double scent. Double isn't always double the movement. So when I hang my tree stands, I I take a drill. I'll take a drill and I'll cut cedar limbs, you know, pine liambs, anything like that. That's gonna give me cover. It's gonna you know, it's not gonna lose leaves, even when it turns brown. It's still gonna laugh cover. And I'll drill them into the tree, you know around me. I'll break up outline good and very seldom do I get bumped up in the tree. So I want to find a place that's in bow range. And then I'm gonna go ahead and and and and go ahead and do that stuff. And even with leaves and stuffup, I'm gonna go ahead do that now. But I don't have to do it later. I might. They're making noise hanging up in lembs. I'll hang them now, even though I've got plenty cover right now, I'll still do that. Every tree stand of mine. You'll see that their cedar limbs and or pine limbs and stuff in there to break up that line of myself and my camera, and and I'll do that. That's what I do. And then i'll map out, you know, it's got a little bit ahead of myself, you know, backing up, I always map out before even hanging the stand of how I'm going to enter it and how I'm gonna exit. You're gonna have get have a game point on how you're gonna do that. If you're going to a stand and or a blind or whatever, and you're bumping deer from the time you go in the woods, and then when you leave your buppeteer again, you're I mean, you're you're just like I said, you shoot yourself in the foot. You're decreasing your chances of getting a shopton at amature bud because like I said, they didn't, they didn't get big by being stupid. They're not gonna they can send something pressure. I can feel it like a pan on you, and I can figure out stuffy out. So you've got to take all that in mine when you're when you're choosing the ruts set up. Yeah, what about this scenario? What if you pick your tree, you put your branches up there, you're downwind of wherever you think the buck is gonna come through. But somehow that big old buck comes rolling through the saddle, he comes over the rise, he starts dropping down towards you, and somehow, despite all your best efforts, he picks you off in the tree. Or or maybe you drew your ball back and the arrow fell off, or something happened and you spook a buck. But it's November. Let's say it's the it's you know, the ruts pumping. You spook that buck out of there during the rut. What are your thoughts on that situation? In the rut, you know, there's there's a couple of different ideas here. Like some people think, oh, you know, the bucks are crazy this time of year. You can you could go right back in there and maybe they'll kill him. Or other people might say, no, he's never gonna walk past that tree again for another month. What do you think about spooking a bucket during the rut? What do you what's the impact going to be? I think every scenario is different. It just depends on There's so many factors on that. I mean, how you spent the book. I mean, did you shoot him with the bow and and and it was it a clean miss? Or did you did you you know, did you scrape my hair off of him? But where he felt like he got shot? Sometimes, you know, somebody misses a I know there's a hunter here in our county that had missed a good duck um the weekend before um and missed it and uh come in the actually the weekend other hunt. It was a uh she she she she shot the deer Saturday, missed it, but it was a clean miss. Didn't hit hair, didn't anything clean miss but the deer blew and ran off And the next day she'd have the understands for that particular wind direction, and she was off work and she wouldn't go. She win, and the deer come back through there about a hour later than it did that. Therefore, once she killed right of the same the same tree and at the same time. Though I found situations myself or stuff like that tappen of the wind the you know what. I hunt in Illinois and Cans of those places, it's a little bit easier to hunt the wind. And this during the mountains because the wind swirls. I mean it might be a you know, a northwest wind or whatnot, but at some time during to day it'll it'll it'll, it swirls and been on the train bounces, all stuff goes back. I mean, you can get It's it's real tricky, you know, the wind when you're hunting hilly and in mountless terrain, and you know, I've I've had there that the winds sported at the wrong time, and I'm I'm, I guess I sometimes a lot of people say I go overboard with sent control, and I tried to. But you know, no matter what, nothing's a h percent. I mean, despite what some advertising might tell you, I mean, I do everything I watched my clothes with the you know, with the the no scent detergent. I wear no cent uh the odor, and I shower, I wear rubber boots. I don't put my clothes until I getting the fell do all that kind of stuff. And and a lot of times, you know, most times it works, but there's some some cases where you're gonna get You're gonna get how good year you're going to get them a high end of the tree, you know, thermals changed, dropped, I made there. There are many things that could happen, you know, where a deer can you know, can detection and bust you. And I've had situations where that, you know, the deer it changed a routine a little bit. I've had it where it changed, it changed it completely. So every every hunt situation is a little bit a little bit different, you know, And I guess one of them the best ways to figure that out is if you have bumped of deers, just keep your cameras on it and and see if it if it's if it's changes routine any so, like if you and I were hunting this weekend and we went to a place and something, you know, something happened we were up in the stand and and right when the buck was coming in, something tell o the tree standing bumped it or or the wind switched and it it went in one of us and it took off and we were gonna hut the next weekend. What I would want to do is model thors cameras through the week and see, well, did that you know the lust pumpany? Did that changes routine? Did it make him come in or after dark? Did he completely changes travel route that you know what happened, And I'll tell you better what you need to you know what you need to do. But there was I mean, every bug everything, Like I said, every situation different. I mean, I'm not long ago. I can't remember the I may get the names of the show or something wrong that they were. I think it might have been Lee and Tiffany. I think that Lee had shot a buck and it may not have been them, but I think it's been several years ago. But but he actually shot the buck and hit it, and um, it was during the rut and it was handling the dough, and um, they couldn't they couldn't find it, and um, I went back got into he was sick, sick, about it went back, got in the same standard. He was just sick, I mean, just manage the that there just to be answer because it was you know, during the rut and whatnot. And the buck comes through there and he killed the chasing another dough and it was it was it was wounded, you know, and it was still chasing, chasing does and he killed it. It It might I'm thinking it was lativity, but it may have been another show. But um, a friend of mine, UM that hides up in Kansas. He killed a lot of big woppy bucks. He's not a TV hunter, he's not a rider, he's not in the industry. And I'll be just a good friend. And he's killed you know, killed some you know, good deer. And he told me a story simular that happened to him, you know, several years ago where he made a he made a bad shot with a bow and U uh and was just sick over it. And um and sent spent two days looking for the deer. Couldn't find it, you know, claude up couldn't find it. And he'd hit a limb and hit it, hit it uh way back and high and uh did got through you know, the vitals or anything, but I mean that you were still hit and it led pretty good and wasn't getting on camera, and it was just sick over and thought about not even going on the next weekend. I mean just I mean he just depressed about it. And but he went back, got in the stand and up killing the deer. I mean the deer come through there on on another dough and um, when they're in the ruts, aer Jenel and stuff's going. And I was done a hunt one time in Illinois, years and years and years ago, and um, Craig Morgan was there and Alex Rutledge and that's back when they were off with HSS and everything and and buy me the hum with them and Alex killed um, he killed a buck over a decoys about this time of the year. He came into a decoy fighting man and came up to the decoy. I'm pretty sure it attacked the decoy and Alex shot it with a boat. And I don't take it an attack to you. It was coming up to it was coming up to it to attack it, and all bristled up. I mean, the drool coming out of its mouth. It's Frankenstein looking walk and he shoots it and makes a good shot on it, I mean smacks it. I mean it goes right to it. And you could see on the footage the deer standing there. It jumps a little bit where he got it, felt the impact of there, but didn't even know it ben't hit. It's sitting there just gushing mud out both sides. It lowers its head and attacks the decoy. It thought the decoy did that to it. It thought that the other bucket somehow did that to it, and it attacked the attacked the bug and it it rolled it and and it got to do that, it kind of jumped back and was looking and sidestepping and looking at going circle around like it was going to hit it again. And it's lake started get a little bit wabbly, and it dropped them and die. They didn't know what it was, didn't know it was it. So I mean, but like I said, on that stuff, he just there's always a sessions to the rule. That's one thing I have learned about hunting in general, and bass fisher and thingl is. You know, over the years, I've had theories in my head that have been proven year in and year out, wrote about them, and all that kind of stuff. And and thought I had a pretty good grass and a thing. And then I find an exception to the rule where you know that that's not always a d percent of the time. It's not always what happens as Yeah, well, I give an example of that. I mean, not the change substry, but hunting around here. I'd always believe and that big big bucks that have survived hunt pressure, survived all the poach and we're smart, you know, elusive a lot of them, you know, nocturnal most of the year, all that kind of stuff. That those deer had a tight core area that they stayed in, and that's what kept them staye They new that area, you know, like you and I know our house. They knew every part of it. They knew how to travel the new work the pressure comes from. The new had to avoid the pressure and new were to bed, and they stayed in that general area. And you know the only thing that changing that pattern was were they were seeing that. And it obviously changed during the rud, you know, whenever we're going to look for those and that kind of stuff. But I mean, they had that core area that they stayed in, and I always assumed that it was a tight a tight area. Well, the last four or five years, my sons killed a couple of bucks. I've killed a couple of bucks that had unique cracks that had you know, like a kicker on the G two or or double brow times or bladed you know, something you can identify. I mean a lot of big deer, a big typical like you know, it's a little like that. We could look. You could get online and punch in big typical eight point white tail bucks and you have hundreds of pictures and and a lot of them. You could lay right on top of the other one, a big typical eight Well, you know there'll be a hundred deer if you find it looked like twins, you know that. But if they've got a unique rack, you know, like with with bladed G two or G three's got a kicker point or double brow, you know, it's very simle. You'll see another deer just identical to that. And we had pictures. He killed a real big buck and I killed a real big buck, and we had a ton of trail camp pictures of them, and uh, hunter's worst nightmare. You go through the places, you getting pictures. I'm consistently and three or four days go by and you don't have a picture of them, So I ran here. When that happens, the first thing we start, you think of the worst. You think somebody's stuck in her and they spotlighted it. You know, it's it's went across the roads. Mother guy shot it. You always you know, nightmare scenarios start unfolding. And and what's happened is that books just moved in the area. And like I was saying, what defied my my theories on these tight quarias that two or three different books that we've killed. Other hunters in our area, if we've killed them, have came up to us and said, man I had choke CHOKEMP pictures that deer I believe, and you get up with them. They they send you the trail camp pictures and look at them and it's your deer. And um example, one of the ones my son killed I got. We we had it on cameras three days in the row. And this is not all people can say we have during the rut, you know, they go everywhere you have, they're their their core libingary does expand on the run. I'm not not that land at all. I've always known that, but this guy was getting pictures of the deer way before the rud way, before the cruising and scouting stage, you know, phase of the road rights to looking for the dose. I mean just when they should be locked in the textbook feeding the bedding area, and I want the properties I'm talking about. It's eleven hundred acres locked up. Uh, there's there's we control it. There's no hunting pressure on it. I mean, we've got food plots. There's there's hard woods, there's there's thickets, there's alamato trees, there's apple trees, or semetries, mental licks, two ponds of creek. I mean, the any kind of terrain or atmosphere a buck would want to be and it's got it could do whatever it wants to do in an area zero hunting pressure. And yet those deer, that dear secret deer was leaving way before, like I said, way before the rud or anything like that, way before it was even thinking about those. It would disappear for two or three days and we start thinking something happened to it. And during that time that guy would get it on camera. It was it was six or seven miles away from from you know what we were hunting at and I know what I know it was that Dear I mean that that particular deer had a kicker on the sea two and had one side had a double brewl I mean, and the guy had a daytime pictures of it, and then he would he would he wouldn't get it on camera for three or four or five days. And during that time we were getting back on camera, and that deer was leaving, not because of hunting pressure, not because of food, because any food it could have been getting up there it had on the on the propect that we were at. But sometimes they just row on and get out and they and they move around. He just like people or some people stay in one state their whole life and only ever leave their count unless they know nless they have to. And then there's other people that just like to get out in Rome. I think dear nature that way too. But all those years, I thought, you know that these big bucks staying in the tight core area. But I've had we've killed four or five bucks here that the other people for sure have had on camera prior to the rut, and even during the post rut. And I might talking about during the secondary part of the rud I'm talking about during the post rut when they really should be locked down to the feeding bed and patting and there, you know, get way out of the area that I thought was a core area. And so they moved a lot more than uh what I thought. So the thing about deering is if you if you're want of these people, you've killed some big deer and and you get cocky and you think you know everything about about deer. And I've never felt that way. I try to learn every time I go in the worlds. I try to learn something. And I do have theories that that I've held true and whatnot on on patterns and behavior and and you know, in tendencies and stuff like that. But there's always exceptions to the rule, always exceptions to the rule, and that so when when you if you think you know everything there is to know, then you're you're you're hurting yourself as a deer hunter, because you need to grow, You need to learn every because and you need to have it in the back of your head and be open mine the best stuff. There's always exceptions to the rule and stuff. So speaking of exceptions to the rule, then and I think you're d right on that um. Speaking of exceptions to the rule, is there anything that you do during the rut that people would think is outside of the ordinary that would be an exception to the rule. Is there anything that you do the other people think is crazy or just you've got them? I guess the which we kind of hit on it a a little bit, the um. I won't think that the different in those concettas, I will try to simulate, like if a buck's chasing about, I'll kind of do that, and I kind of and when I first started doing that, had them and like I said, you feel goof you're doing and there you are stopping through the woods and you're grunting and doing an extra stone bleeping whatnot, You're breaking station duk kind of stuff. You just feel like a moron after doing anything. I hope nobody's seeing this, but it adds realism to your to your setup, in it, in it and it actually you know, it actually works. That's one thing that I do different, But it goes against every I'm always you know, I got kind of got like a sniper mentality. I want to get into a place, you know, quietly, I want to take the shot, make one shot, make an athical shot. Make it count and get out. I make any make any noise I may hit. My dad will be one of that area. Maybe one more and one duck. I want to get any get out. I tried ill he's we talked about, you know, getting to your stands and stuff. I always I take the time to cut out any any briers, clean pass that I can use to get in there and not make anyon ones. Don't even use the flyshlot. I an't get myries without a flyshlot. I will go in. I want to sneak in. I don't want to disturb anything going in or disturb anything going out. And that goes against every fiber of my body. When you get out there and you're breaking sticks and you're grunt and you're making that noise, and because in the back of your money thinking I'm screwing this place up, you know, I'm making all this rack and all this noise, and you know I probably ran a deer off. That's what's what goes through your head. But if, like my son said when he was selling me do at the time he said that, I said, you know, but because he's been in the standing and witnessed that he's witnessed, you know, a buck chasing that I was doing a team and grunt and saying here and I don't do an astra stoll bleak and all that kind of stuff. And when you see melate that and you're breaking the sticks, you're and you're but you go rustle through the waves, and you're trying to sound like deer, you know, trotting through there, trying to sound like it sound like a deer. And he said, you know, close your eyes. That sounded identical to that, and and you know, and it works sometimes. So I one of the guests, I guess the one of the things I think that's kind of it's kind of off the wall. Um uh. One of the other things I do. I think that you'll be a lot different than a lot of people talk about hunting all day and and you know, and they really don't. They'll hunt, you know, before before daylight, and I'll hunt until you know, two or three o'clock in the day and they'll we'll wear down, get hungry and they'll leave. But I'll do a lot of a lot of sense from from before daylight after dark. And it's tough, I mean, it's it's it's tough to do those. But but I mean during the rut you need I mean, you know, pre rut, No, you don't have Tonday lots to dark, you know you do. You need to follow your cameras. They are more on a predictable walk down, you know, pad of feem, the bend pattern. But but when when the rud's end, there's breeding activity, and especially the fact that there are so many other hunters in the woods, you need to stay in there as long as you can stay in there. If you can hunt to day not to dark, do it. You need to stay because you just never know what's going to happen. Hard You hard to argue with that. Just if there's nothing else that comes down down to it. During the rut, it's being in the tree, being there to be present for the opportunity when it comes. Yeah, that's exactly right. You can't kill him at home. I can't shoot them off the couch. You need to be up there and end the past. I hunted with um. I had the moment you two times in my life, and one of the times was during during gunstingy I hunted with which is crazy. I don't recommend that I'm actually I could kill you, but I did it because you know, um you know, I am it out in the ride or I have done TV stuff like that kind of thing. But I've also been a teacher in my whole life, and and and being a teacher you get X amount of sick days and the X amount of personal days and whatnot. And I went to school, you know, definitely sick, because if my principal knew when I was, when I was in the classroom that if I called in sick, I was either going fishing or going on I mean that they do that. I didn't have to lie to I never did tell me, ay, I'm sick. You know, technically you're not supposed to you're not supposed to take you know, sick days to kind of do that stuff that you calate all the sick days and for yours, you know, you can use them, so it's not counting against anybody. So but my prince wasn't I didn't have to fake a call for they knew that that Travis Watter's calling it that he's definitely going deer hunting or turkey unting or bass fishing or something like that. And um, saw went the school definitely stick of save my days. And I've hunted and you can't always control me. I found UH. I used to coach basketball and I was assistant coach on the varsity one year, and and UH played basketball in my entire life, coached that, that all that kind of stuff. And UH, at the time I was coaching, our second string was a lot weaker than the first five. So the varsity coach would want me to take the second string and played, you know, on their team and and scrimmage the first five, and um, you know, because I was a pretty good player and whatnot. I say he'd used me for that. And I've done that a lot and enjoyed doing That's a good exercise for deer and everything. But I remember one year, UH wasn't expecting on doing that and I didn't have my high talk basketball shoes with me, and he said, needs to go to that. We said, we, I know, practice schedule, We hadn't planned on on doing this, but he said, you know, I decide with you know, some things going on wrong. I need to see it. You know, when a game scenarios, I need you to go today. I said, coach, I ain't going. I don't have my eyetops. He said, he's where did you? We'll just go, you know, a quarter or two, he's, I just need to see a couple of things you said, He said, you should be all right. Played the whole life. I've had stitches. Well, I dove all those balls and elbowed all that kind of stuff. Never had a turned ankle's aggressive as I played? Ever had a turned ankle, Bobby Dagon if I didn't. But the third play into into a scrimmage, and I turned my ankles on back. I mean it swell ups, so back and then get my shoe on, and uh I got my boot on. I thought that ever happened on a Friday Saturday morning, hunted and I killed a deer and my cut. I never forget this. My cousin killed up to me and and he drove in that place separately. And back then where we sign up we have seal reservice. We had the you know the radios, the Waltman radio's type dealing. And I've raid up to my killed one and I was headed out and he said, I'll meet you back at the truck. And I considered pulling that deer. He said, but what's wrong with did you hurt yourself? And I said, I hurt myself Friday. I told him what I did. You can just try to take with a lot about too bad. Well, I pulled my boot off the show him and just he said here and he's I cannot believe you're in the wood. He how you even walk? I mean we look like a balloon. But you know, you gotta you gotta do what you gotta do. You know, I could have laid there at home, felt surf myself and my ankles heard or you know, I'm wore out. I've had a rough week at work and we've all been there. We've all been It's hard to work hard all week and then get up even earlier on a Saturday, you know, and hunt. But if it's during the rut, you know, if you love deer hunting like we do, you've got to be out there. I mean, it's just stoll is to it. Perseverance will kill you more dear than then then out anything else you can do, and you've got to, You've got to. You've just gotta put yourself in the in a situation where you can get a shout opportunity, and you sure can't do that at home. Yeah, that that might be the best run hunting advice we've had yet. And that's pretty fitting place to wrap it up to. So now, Travis, this has been this has been great. I've I've really enjoyed it. So so thank you for taking into we're talking to you today. I said I could do this. I could do this all day long. I mean, um, kind of get excited sometimes you're talking. When you bring up a certain scenario or something about twenty different things right there your head, you just can't just can't cover at all. But I think we've done a pretty good job today, you know, covering, covering. You know, the taxes of the people need running ow to get on, get on the big one to kill one all the way up through the through the end of the rut. So yeah, and I'm gonna try I'm heading out probably about half hour and head out and get after it myself. And I might try that rubbing or grunting rub idea if I see my big my big target buck off in the distance. So I'll let you know if that works. Yeah, keep me posts, man, I hope you helpe you knock him in the dirt. Appreciate Travis well, if folks want to read your writing or see the things you're up to, is there any particular place they should keep an eye out for that in the future. Yeah, there's a at do a lot of oracles from North American whitetail do outdoor life, the stuff with the bugs on the out in their life, you know, stuff like that, And you can probably just google my name. I think a lot of the some of the shows or if stay buried on the TV and stuff like, they rerun them on where you can get them online. And some of my hunters and stuff wrong a lone where you can look them up and watch the end of that kind of thing. But um, you usually google on that you can put up some articles and stuff. They can taking a lot of the magazines you know about did they put a lot and put them online? If they come off the off the standing out the magazine put them online, so perfect. A lot of stuff after like that. So all right, well, I'll make sure to let folks know where they can they can find all that. And I've been following you for years and I've always enjoyed your your perspective and the articles you've written, so thanks for doing that. I've done the same to you. I trying to follow you. I didn't. I didn't realize that I get your podcast live there. I'm gonna start listening to a lot. It's a you know, out of me on to do it. I mean, I throw done some research out look at the man, You've got a good thing going. I'm gonna definitely be checking in out from here on out. Yeah, I appreciate that we've It's been a lot of funs. Definitely give me an opportunity to learn from a lot of great hunters. And uh, i'd say today we add one more list, So we thank you. Do you wanna do you want to hear one joke before we go, I'll give you a deer hunting joke. There was a these two guys were hunting in a certain area and they got all of this this monster buck boon a truck at buck, you know, buck of a lifetime, and they both had permission up there area and and everything, and they were decided that you know that they would flip for it. Who was gonna get to kill it? You know that would feel if they wanted to film it, they want filming for a show. I thought, if they just wanted to have it, you know, have that hunt as a as a keepsake. So they flipped for it. One guy. One other guy lost, and they were gonna hunt for that weekend. Um Li was up in the weekend and gun Steasons. They going there and they they got a blind up overlooking this little winter wheat field. It's adjacent to this road. It goes up against this big thicket, and that buck had been coming out right there near the road and coming right out, you know, in the in the morning times of Teton and and and you know said check for those looking for those and whatnot. And they had it on camera. So they were just you know, fired up about Erica. They knew that, you know, they were gonna get it on film. And the guy's gonna get to shoot it. So they're getting their way. Poor daylight gets set up. They're up there in a in a shooting house. They put my big shoot house up and they're gonna do it right, you know, I'll be in beverefit rain or whatever. They're gonna get out there. So they're up there in the shooting house and everything's going on, and in uh start breaking daylight first part of the morning. They seen some doughs whatnot, and and a little activity and got up that bed morning, you know, and they've been getting a lot of bid morning active younger trail cameras something. You know, this this is gonna be it, sure enough, ten thirty levenclock in the morning. Buck steps out there. It is how you're yawing it? How yall? The guy gets carried. Yeah, I'm on I'm on it, I'm on it. And he and he said, let's get some potage. Other it sits out there, it comes out, you know, real cautious life. And I'm looking around and cool up. Tharrel goes up to a doll and and uh comes up in behind her and she kind of trots off and and it's standing out there and they're getting all that on film, and the guy clicks his safety off. These guys are gonna up from the shooting sticks and is getting ready to shoot and he looks up to the porners hire comes but the traffic down that road. But they were used to that traffic, you know, their backs were to that road, so they didn't freak you marrything. But he looked and it was a funeral procession, you know. Flags up on the on the car, lights on you you know, other cars were pulled up to the road. It's went up through there. The guy looks at it, looks back through the scope, looks back at the cars again, looks back at his scope, and his buddy's thinking, why is he not Why is he not shooting it? Why is he not shooting it? So he he looks back at the at the funeral session again, stops, takes off his hat, puts up against his chest, bows his head, and starts praying, you know, then a little silent prayer. And his buddy just can't believe it. You know, those guys that die hard hunter, they've looked for the all season. There the buck is he could shoot it, and and and he's doing They just couldn't believe he's doing that. So, uh, the buck left during that time, and he didn't get the shot, and the cars went by, and and the buddy said, man said, I'm kind of proud of you in a way because you know that I showed great respect, you know, for that funeral things. But I just I just can't leave. You didn't shoot it. I just can't leave you didn't shoot that deer. And he said, well, he's like I kind of failed. Obligated. He said obligated And he said, what do you mean obligated to shower? Said, what are you talking about? He said, well, man, listen, he said. I was married to her for twenty five years. He was at the run like that. I got Runnell Rod Pronty. That is a good one. I didn't know where that was going so thoroughly. That is a good man. I'll let you go. We had again. Be sure to keep me posting on how much you're seeing, and I'll do the same. I'm I'm getting fired up. I'm gonna try to hunt something. We've got a big co front coming in Friday and and I'm gonna try to get on one this this weekend. So make it happens. Sounds good, well, good luck and shoot straight all right, man, you too, And there you go, my friends, Another one in the books. Hopefully this will help a lot of you in the woods. We've got if you're listening to this right when it drops, We've got three weeks left of November, lots of rut hunting ahead of you, So get out there, hunt hard, have a good time. Don't get too stressed. I know I have a tendency that as the as the rut continues, every day flips off the calendar. I start feeling more and more pressure because the rut is falling behind me. Now we're seven days down, we're ten days down, we're fifteen days down. You start to worry it's ever gonna happen. Don't be like me. Just enjoy the moment, get out there, putting the time, and good things will happen. So until with yet again, next time, thank you for listening, and stay wired to hunt

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