00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number two hundred and eighty five. In today's show, I'm joined by professional big wave surfer Shane Dorian to discuss how discipline, self awareness, and training for worst case scenarios has made him one of the best surfers in the world and a better bow hunter. All right, welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X, and today we're continuing with our Peak Performers series in which we're interviewing people at the top of their fields, whether that be professional athletes, or businessmen, or authors, whatever it might be. And we're chatting with these people to learn about what skills and routines and habits and practices have helped them achieve excellence and their professions, and then how we can apply those same lessons to our pursuit to become better hunters. So our guest today is a perfect example of this, as Shane Dorian has risen to the top of the surfing world over the past two decades. He's had, you know, a number of top ten finishes on the World Championship Tour. He has won numerous awards, including Right of the Year in two thousand, eleven, fifteen, and sixteen, and he was most recently featured in an HBO documentary called The Momentum Generation. And all these accomplishments have taken just a monumental amount of determination and hard work and training and learning along the way, and those same things have helped him become a better bow hunter too, because he's also now really passionate about hunting. And so that's where the majority of our conversation is spent today, you know, digging into how Shane achieved excellence in this profession as a surfer, and then how all that has translated to him developing his passion as a bow hunter. So we discussed the importance of discipline in his life and how he's foster that. We talked about training for high intensity moments like paddling into a big wave or drawing back on a big buck. We talked about the importance of forcing yourself out of your comfort zone. We even getting this some quick tips about just healthier living that can help you perform better in the field, and all in all, it was just a fascinating conversation. Shane was a good dude, and I know that there are gonna be things that you can take from this that will absolutely help you make positive progress towards your hunting goals this coming season, which I know is top of mind for all of us right now. So with all that said, I want to get right to that conversation, but first let's take a quick break to thank one of our partners, and then we'll get to chatting with Shane Dorian. All right, I'm now here on the line with Shane Dorian. Thanks for doing the Shan Yeah. Absolutely. My my buddy Ben O'Brien, when my colleagues over here, meat Eater has told me a couple of times that the year someone I need to talk to. I know you guys have shared a hunt in camp or two together, and as I understand it right, you're you're obviously professional big wave surfer. I know you bow hunt. I know you've done a lot in Hawaii. There's all sorts of animals out there. I know you've traveled to the Western United States to Colorado in plays like that chasing elk and whatnot. Um, but what's really interesting to me is that you just went on your first white tail hunt this past year. I gatti believe that's pretty different than some of the other things you've been doing. So what did you what did you think about that? Yeah, first of all, yeah, I'm really good friends with Ben O'Brien. He's a he's a legend. I love that guy. Um, And yeah, just it was one of those things where I always wanted to try white tail hunting, but because I am a surfer, the you know, the prime time for surfing is in the wintertime, so you know, like November and December it is you know, it's really ran, like my season gets really serious. So that's why it took me so long to you know, to try and get out to the Midwest to hunt white tails, just because it's really difficult time of the year for me. But last year, UM, I got the call from a guy named Sloane Brown and you know, he just said, you know, we got this white tail hunt coming up, you want to come out and do it? And um, so I jumped in the chance. I jumped on a plane and got out there. And now that was my first time in the Midwest, first time to Ohio and first time hunting white tails. And you're you're hunting with my buddy Downie Wilson, right. I saw he had some pictures of you out there. That's right. Yeah, yeah, Donny, he's the man out there in Ohio. He's he's killed some big bucks of his bow, and you know, he knows the animals really good. I didn't really have any idea really what I was doing out there. I was just, you know, wanted to learn as much as I could, but you know, just such a different environment to what I used to I'm not very patient. I'm not a super patient hunter. Um. I really loved the spot and stock. I love to be on the ground with game, and I like to kind of like move around a lot. I always feel like whenever I'm sitting in a certain place that there's there's there everywhere except where I am, you know, dress you know, like when you're when you're it's it's a little bit hard for me to be confined to a tree stand. So I knew that was like a kind of like a personal challenge I needed to try and try and uh, you know, see if I had a kata, what it took for that. So what was the verdict? And once you you did it for a while, did you did it? Did it come to be something you enjoyed or was it a struggle? Yeah? No, it was awesome. Um. You know, I love I love hunting, and I love I'm not the type of hunter that has like a big list of different animals I need to kill and not like I need to get my own goat and then I need IEX and then I need a ow Dad, and then I need a zebra, and then I need a kudu and then I need to know. I'm not that. I just really love to hunt different places with different people, um, and just to see different terrain and hunting methods and and need local hunters who hunt different species and and it was fun to hang out with Donnie and and do the white tailed thing and and being like really cold temperatures and sit in a tree stand and try and keep warm and try and not go stir crazy and be patient and it was really fun. Man. It was super challenging. Um it was. It was you know, just having like the extra clothing and you know, trying to keep warm and then trying to get the full draw um, and then trying to sit still and there was there's a lot of challenges, but it was it was a blast. I loved it. You know. The White Hill Woods Ohio were absolutely stunning and beautiful. And um, I was lucky enough to have a do come in. On my second morning there, there was a really big buck that Donnie was after. Um. You know, for a few weeks he had him on game camera but only at night, and so he really wanted me to try and kill that book and buck just ended up being super nocturnal and um, So the second morning I was there, I only had a few days to hunt. My time was really limited. So on my second morning, Donnie was sitting in the tree next to me and and this doll came into a scrape and and a kind of buck was following her. And I looked at Donnie and he said, go for it. And so as soon as that buck stopped, I was already a full draw and UM let him out. That's awesome, now, was it that that feeling like that that peak of of excitement adrenaline in that moment when the buck shows up and you get that shot. I've always kind of I always struggle to to understand the difference between that moment versus like if you're out on a western hunt and you're chasing an elk and you're running up and down mountains and then you get the shot, because like in that moment when you're hunting elk, it's like this adrenaline rush for an hour or two right you're you're running up a mountain, you you finally catch up to the elk. It's been like high intensity for a very extended period of time. So there's something about that that's incredible. But then at the same time, it's like the polar opposite when your white tail hut because it's very low intensity for hours and hours and hours. So you're you're kind of sitting and waiting and observing and watching and thinking, and you're you're working at this very low wave length, and all of a sudden, then you spike way high when that buck shows up and you go from zero to sixty and two seconds, and so that's a huge rush in a different kind of way. Did that feel different to you too, or what was that like compared to your past hunting experiences? For sure, I mean it's um, you know what, when whenever you're you know, whenever you're just um, you know, just kind of hoping that some some somebody's gonna show up, and it just seems like the time goes so slow, and it seems like in the evening time when it's when it's going to get dark, that you know, the dark comes pretty quickly, and and you're really worried that there you know that there's there's not a year that's going to show up before dark, and there's just a million things going through your brain, and all of a sudden, the moments there right in front of you, and and so you know that that that particular hunt was was a situation where I didn't really have time to get nervous. It was like the buck was walking in super fast. He was gonna stop, or he was gonna I was hoping he was gonna stop. I got the full draw, and I knew it was only a matter of seconds, and I didn't really have time to get As soon as you stopped, I just settled my pin. I was using a back tension release, and I just started squeezing on that and and I just started uh pulling on that, and you know, he luck that he stayed still for enough time and Um, I let him have it, but it was Yeah, It's it's so different because you know, the moment, you know, like the moment of truth when your archery hunting is is is pretty similar. I think species of species is just all the moments leading up to that moment that are different. Like with you know, if you or or like with Neil deer, if you see a deer like feeding in the morning and you wait from the bed, and then you wait for the wind to stabilize and you plan your stock, and then you you spend two or three hours talking in and getting into thirty yards, and then you're waiting another four hours for the thing to stand up. There's so much time, um, and so much mental fatigue trying to stay focused. And if you're on your knees and and you're and you're trying to to like withstand the pain and not move around. You know, there's so much time to think about that upcoming moment. But in white tail hunting, it seems like the upcoming moment just happens. Yeah, you can all change in a second, can come out of nowhere, that's for sure. Yeah, And I think I just got pretty lucky, you know, Buck came in at the right time. Um, he didn't look up when I got to full draw or when I was getting to full draw. Um, you know, the do didn't spook. I just things just kind of fell into place, and um, I end up making a great shot, so I was really happy. He actually he didn't even take a step, he just dropped in his track, so that I was really so yeah. I just switched to a back tension release myself this year, so I'm still kind of getting used to it in training with it. However, you like that, oh man, I love it. It's um For for me, it was in the seconty I was I was battling some pretty bad um Sarto panic, which I'm sure a lot of your listeners can can relate to, and I was just having a difficult time with with trigger releases. I was starting to get to the point where it was really difficult for me to relax during the shot process on on our an animal, and I was starting to make really inconsistent shots and having the you know, the point of impact pretty pretty far away from where I really wanted to And I would get to the point where I put my pain on that animal and I couldn't relax, and as soon as my pain got in the kill zone, I was a tounch of trigger and um, I was just truly trying to get frustrated. So I ended up um bogging to John Dudley and getting one of those silver backs and put the sight off my bow and did blank bail shooting and closed my eyes and shot like that for a month and then and then just shot blank build for a month. And then I didn't shoot at any like sort of target for another month, and then I put my sight back on and just worked my way back into into like normal like target archery, and then and then, Yeah, it's been a game changer for me. My, my, my, my, My ratio of animals. Um. You know that I that I've killed has gone way up. Um, the not animals that I've lost has gone way down, and and and the point of impact from where I'm aiming has gotten much more in accurate. So I'm very, very stoked with the results. And I feel like I'm a much better hunter with the back tension leaves. That's great. Yeah, that's that sounds really similar to my story. I kind of had was having the same issues and decided to do the same thing you've done kind of started back from the ground and got one of those silverbacks too. So that's that's where I'm at, and it's good to hear you've had you've had positive results. I'm hoping to have similar stories as fall. So, so you you have done something which which we've been talking to a whole bunch of different people about, which is you've kind of reached the top of your game in your professional life as as a surfer, competitive surfer and our big wave surfer. You're right there at the peak of the mountain. Um. And so what we've been trying to do over recent weeks is is talked to different people like this who are I don't know, like a really generic way of saying is like a high achiever, peak performer or something, someone who's who's really found a way to achieve excellence is something. And then we're like kind of breaking down, like what are the different pieces of that puzzle that have made that person as successful as they are, And then is there something we can learn about that we can apply to our passion of hunting? Uh Um. So you've you've obviously found a way to do that in the surfing world and it sure seems like you're doing that now in the hunting world too. Um obviously have passion for both of those things, but I'm kind of curious at the top, like, did you fall for hunting and fall in love with bow hunting because of how similar it is to something about surfing, maybe the work that it takes or the training it takes, or the intensity of it, Or is it because of how different it is from surfing? What's that relationship for you? You know, I think it's a little bit of both. I think I've never I've never fallen in love with any other thing betided surfing in my whole life. And you know, I started surfing when I was five, and I fell a head over heels for it and became obsessed with it. And that's all I cared about. It's all I thought about. I've gotten the way of everything I ever did with girls and and everything, you know, that's all I wanted to do with surfing. Cool, you know, It's all I thought about in school and and so I just became obsessed with it, and that's all I did, And that's all I really knew how to do for for decades and decade and that's why I became really good at it. And and then um, you know I I, yeah, I've reached high level and surfing and it's become my profession and it's what all I've done for thirty years. Um. And then I found bow hunting pretty late. And when I was thirty years old, I started b hunting, and as the same situation for me, I I you know, I didn't really have anything besides surfing that I really loved, and I saw bo hunting and I instantly fell for it. I just loved it. It was so similar to surfing in a lot of ways, Like, um, you know, the real reasons I've felt in love with surfing was because it was an escape. It was an escape from school. It was escape from you know, the classroom in school and my teachers and everyone who would tell me what to do. The escape from my parents and the situation at home I was in, and the issues and all the stress in my life and all this stuff as a child, which weren't even a stressful, but I thought they were. You know, when you're a kid, you think everything is radical. But you know, that was the ocean with my escape. The ocean was like my thing that um just set me straight and kept my head on straight. And and then with surfing in the same way, you know, And you know now there's now as an adult, like you know, our day or day lives is gonna be pretty stressful. And and to have just even not even hunting, just archery, just just at the end of the day that just grab your bow and go out in the yards of the deer and shoot the arrows to the target. It's just it's so therapeutic, and it's so good good for us, I think, and and for for me to find that later in life and to really fall in love with it and become super passionate about archery, and archery hunting has just been such a blessing of my life. I really love it. And I've met friends but I never would have met in a million years had I not started archery hunting. And a lot of the most beautiful places I've ever been to in the world now is only because I started hunting. So it's just really neat to to find something totally different and become passionate about it. And and that there's a lot of similarities between um, archery, hunting, and surfing, and there's there's a lot of differences as well. There's they're so different in a lot of ways and very similar in some ways. Do you think that anything from your surfing background has helped you become, you know, a competent bow hunter. Is there anything that jumps out right away? Is like, you know that kind of helps instill this thing in me that now you use as a hunter or anything like that, for sure? Yeah, I mean, you know, being being a professional big wave surfer, you know, it took me multiple decades to to you know, get the skill to to be a really high level of that. And and that's the things you really need for for a big wave of surfing is discipline and you know determination, you know, really strong mental focus, being able to perform in key moments that you can't predict. Um. You know, with with surfing, you're you're dealing with mother nature. You're not. It's not a basketball. Who've been a basketball and you throw the basketball and goes into hoo, can you get your points? Not like that. It's not like a basketball hoop. It never moves and you know where it is all the time. It's not like a skateboard wrap. It doesn't move and you know where it is all the time. Surfing, it's like, you know, for if you're a good way of surfer, there might be only one truly epics swell per year, and you have no idea when that swell is going to hit, whether it's in December, whether it's on a certain day. So you have to train all year long. You have to be mentally and physically ready all year long, year and year out. Um you know, because those key moments of key swells are you know, the things that define you as a surfer, and that's that's what that's what, um you know, that's when it really truly counts. And it's very similar in bow hunting. It's like, you know, you can you can shoot a millionaireros a year and just drill the heart on every single phone gear target in the world, but if you can't recreate that in the moment on a real life animal, then it doesn't matter. Um. So I think that mental focus and knowing how to how to step up when when you know and in the moment of truth, I think that's definitely only I've been able to bring that over from surfing. I'm not saying I'm a deadly bow hunter or anything. Like that. But it's it's definitely helped me a lot. So how did you develop that ability? Maybe in surfing? Right? How did you get to the point where you can get that one chance a year maybe and you just you you crush it? What have you been doing to get to that point? I just think a lot of experience, you know, just getting a lot of experience in the ocean for sure, A lot a lot of big swells under my belt, and a lot of slow progress with baby steps just you know, year after year, um, decade after decade. And but I think we all do that in our lives in some certain capacity that we can kind of draw, you know, when we're our tree hunting. It's interesting with with um, with with our tree hunting, It's like, I'm pretty lucky, you know, where where I live, I can get a lot of experience. You know, if you're if you live in Ohio or something like that, it's our treat me. And you know when when when it's over, you you know, you put your bow away for a while and then you're like, hey, I'm I'm six months out from our tree season. I'm gonna get my bow backed up and maybe you get some new gear, maybe by a by a new site for the next white kill season. And then you're like, I'm four months out came, Now I'm starting to shoot a lot. Now I'm two months out came. Now I'm shooting a ton. And then I'm one month out, I'm switching to broadhead. And then it's like this big anticipation for this this one deer you're gonna kill or maybe not kill. For me, right now, I could hang up the phone, drop my bow, jump in my truck, and drive three minutes and go hunting. There's no season and there's no bag limit. I could go outside my house literally walk ups on my house and start hunting right now, and and you know, there's wild boars all around my house and goats like a fifteen minute walk from my house, and I can hunt ram to the top of this mountain right here where I live. And um, you can do that every single day of the year. And there's no bag limits, no seasons. And so for me, I'm pretty lucky as far as I makes sperience goes. I was I was a really I found hunting really late, but I feel like I've put in enough days in the last you know, twelout the fifteen years that is like a lifetime of hunting, you know, hundred hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of days um with with a lot of days coming home with like no arrows left. Yeah, So that kind of makes me think about this, this kind of thing that's happening. I think to a lot of people these days that are maybe just getting into hunting now, they see, you know, all these TV shows and all these magazines and Instagram, and they're seemed big deer, big elk or big whatever all the time. So there's this kind of expectation that's developed just by everything you've see in the media that makes you think, oh, I got to hold out for a big something, whatever it is. So then you get these new hunters who then go the first year, two, three or four or five years and they just they don't want to shoot anything because they want it to be this great, big buck, because that's what it seems like they think they have to do if they want to get a lot of likes on Instagram or just their buddies. Don't give a hard time to people that don't end up getting a lot of experience with that final moment of truth because they're just waiting and passing and passing and passing and doing kind of the opposite what what you talked about doing, which is you know, surfingly crazy all the time and getting that experience or hunting as often as you can and actually going through that whole thing. Do you think, like that scenario just laid out, is that an issue in your mind? Like is that holding people back? Do you think? Yeah? I mean, you know, there's nothing wrong with big deer, big elk. I mean, I mean I like those things just as much as the next person. But it's it's on a it's it's meaningless. It's just that's that's that's not really why you hunt. Me hunt for I mean I hunt for experiences like when, like when Ben came out and visited me here in Hawaii. I had hunted with Ben a couple of times and spend a lot of time with him in the main line of stuff. And then when he finally came out and visited me in Hawaii, Um, you know, we spent a week chasing gear on the nine and dude, we just get a million stock, shot a million arrows, drank beers at night, talked a lot of ship, had fun, had a great, great group of guys, and that's what it was all about. We didn't remember the big deer. I didn't remember any big bucks. That that's not what I remember. I remember all the blown stocks and all the misses and all the times that screwed up, and those little moments when I've made the shot count. And that's those experiences. Seed. If you're if you're waiting for the biggest elk on the mountain, or if you're waiting five years for one big white tail, Yeah, it's gonna look good at your wall and you kill him, but you're wasting your time. Man. It's it's all about like the relationships and and the and the hunters we make friends with and share camp with, and all those moments with the animals. Man, Like, I just want to get out there and hunt as much as I can with great people and have amazing experiences. Honestly, Yeah, that that it's easy to get caught up in all the other stuff and forget the about those foundational aspects of it that really are like you said, those are the memory makers some time. Um. But then there is something to be said that that those final moments, whether you can close the deal or not. That often is what defines you as a hunter in in some certain ways, right, Um, at least yourself knowing what you're able to do, what you would able to accomplish. I suppose, UM, do you think that there's anything I gotta imagine, UM that when you paddle into a big wave, it's like a very high pressure, high intensity situation. UM. Dangerous situation probably too. And rights hunters, we enter this high pressure situation when we're about to draw back on a on a deer and elk or something very different but similarly high pressure. Like we were talking about everything all year leads up to this one moment. Um. I heard you once talk about the fact that in that moment for you, you're not thinking about anything at all. There's no self talk, there's no conscious thing. It's just like instinct taking over. Um. Is that same for you when you're in the moment of truth for a deer or an elk or whatever, when you're drawing back, Like, do you have that same you know, just instinctual action. Um. And part two of that would be, how do you get to the point where instinct is able to help you, you know, handle those situations? Is it just the experience thing, or is there any other like actual training or work or something that helps you just not choke. I think it's just experience with insurfing. Like if you if you put me out in the ocean right now and it was the biggest well of the year and I had to pole it into the line if it gets a really big wave, I wouldn't be thinking about really anything when I wave approached and had a turnaround the paddle, I wouldn't be thinking about anything. I just would be focused, and it would all I would just like rely on my instincts and my history and my experience. But when I'm bow hunting in that situation presents itself and it's at that moment of truth as the opposite as I definitely don't go blank. If I go blank, I miss. And so for me, it's a matter of like really focusing on every single part of the process, each step as far as like you know, when to get up on my knees, when to draw, what's the animal doing? Is there a lot of those looking Okay, they're all not looking at me now at the time. Okay, now is the time to draw? Okay, I got the full draw now is my you know, my anchor, then my bubble, then my skin, you know which painted it. Okay, get on the animal, don't full thetray, your relaxed breathe starts focusing on that pin and then pulled through the shot. And I have to go through all those things or else I can't make a great shot. Um. And I know that I bought myself, and so I just rely on my shot process and and I try to really focus on that and breaking it down into pieces is the thing that helps me make the shot at the moment of truth. And I think the difference between surfing for me and relying on my instincts and not really thinking about much and in be hunting having a full on focus on on the on the processes. It's just a matter of you know, I didn't grow up bull hunting, UM. I don't have decades of experience, and so for me, I just really want to UM. I think I think a guy like John Dudley UM or someone like that. And I'm sure there's a lot of people out there like that have been bow hunting since they were little kids. They you know, they probably don't need to think of anything when they are you know, uh, you know about to make the shot. But I think archery hunting is is a little bit different, so technical, one little tiny thing and go wrong one one, one little element of your of your process is not there, whether it's your level or falling through or pulling through the shot for um, you know, obviously focusing on the right pin. All those things need to be perfect. Um. So I would think a lot more of people would, even like really experienced bow hunters that probably have to break it down and do it the process. And I know, just from my own personal experience having to do that very same thing you talked about, like that takes a lot of um, I mean, all the things we're talking about, It takes a lot of work. Like you have to drill all those things to really develop that process in that habit, and knowing how to do all those things in the high pressure situation takes a whole lot of work over them proceeding weeks and months and years. Um. How do you fit that kind of preparation into your life? Because I feel like a lot of us know are we should be practicate with our bows? A lot a lot of us know we should be out there, you know, exercising or whatever to stay in good shape for our hunts. A lot of us know we should be doing a B or C to prepare, but it's really easy for life to get in the way. For taking the kids to school to make things tough, or you gotta do stuff around the house, or your wife needs help doing a B, C, D and D, and all of a sudden, your whole day is gone and you're you don't you don't have any time. How do you make time for those things? Or how do you fit that kind of thing into your life and make it a habit. It's either born or it's not. You know, it's like we we it's easy to say, you know, I don't have time for our treat today, but it's super important to me. You know. It's it's you have time, you just have to make it. You have to make time. Look, you know, look at they get Cameron Keines like issier than anybody. He's still shooting, you know, even if it's only five arrows a day, he's still shooting it when he's in his work clothes about to walk out his door. It's just like most people say it's important, but it's really not. But to Cameron heenes and a million other people out there. They do like they get home in the dark and then they turn on their their headlights on their on their target at fifteen yards to just make those make those ten arrows count. You know, It's like if it's really really important to you, truly important to then you know, you gotta act like it. You can't just say it's important. You know, if you say it doesn't really mean touch. As my point, I guess and I'm the same. I'm guilty of it just like everyone else. My My life is really busy. I'm traveling a lot. A lot of times. I'm gone for a month at a time or three weeks at a time or um. And then I get home and there's only like two days before I'm going hunting, and I gotta scramble and get my boat dial to make sure everything. You know, my arrows are set, all my gears ready, and I just have to, you know, get out there and shoot a bunch of arrows, only you know, a day and a half before I got to leave, and and you know, in those moments, I just have to make it count. And then when I'm at home for a long time, I just have to force myself to to shoot. You know, I try to shoot like twenty arrows a day, like three or four days a week when I'm home. So even though it's not hundreds of arrows, you just want to make every single arrow account. Yeah, And I think a lot of that comes down to And you brought this up earlier, discipline, right, just having the discipline to you prioritize this thing, and now you have to do it. You have to follow through on that goal. And I heard you say once that there's a whole lot of things that you're not, but one thing that you are is disciplined. And I think you said ninety of your success you would probably attribute to discipline. Um So what what does discipline like? What to you? How does that like manifest in your life? Like? How are you disciplined? And how do you How have you gotten that way? Um? Well, I think I got up from my mom. My mom is extremely disciplined. She doesn't doesn't make any excuses, she doesn't blame anything out anything on anybody else. Um. She she takes full responsibility for things that are happening in her life. And I just kind of grew up watching that and having other examples that were the opposite, and I just grew to really respect her, and um, you know, she's the type of person that as she tells you she's going to be somewhere to meet you at eight o'clock, she's there. S Um, she's never late, you know, and she just in her life that's just how she's always been. And I just kind of learned that from her, and I really looked up to her and really had a lot of respect for her because of that. And I guess that's where I got really disciplined, and I realized that you know, you know, what you put into something is what you get out, and um, that's kind of definitely what's what's happened with my surfing. Just putting in tons and tons of time ocean time is really paid off for me. So I try to try to, you know, bring that into other parts of my life, and with archery and and bo hunting, I try to like spend a lot of time as much as I can shunting with the best people that I possibly can and seeing just just just be discipline in putting in the effort and trying to learn, like I don't just go out there and aimlessly shoot for three hours to shoot my bow. I go out there and I might shoot for twenty minutes, but I shoot one arrow, you know, at fifty yards, and then I go and grab my arrow, walk back to fifty and shoot again. And then I go and to have my arrow and walk back to fifty. That way, you just focus on one arrow at a time and try and make it a perfect arrow. And you know, and then when I go hunting and either hunt by myself and I try and hunt animals that are really really hard to hunt. Um. And even if I'm not taking the shots when I get them, I just you know, I might stalk into thirty yards, um, you know, wait for the right time to draw, draw my bow, aim, focus on that spot, um, and then just sit there and aim right in the kill spot and then let down and then let the animals walk away and restop them again. We're stop another group. And I feel like that sort of practice and and really preparing for the right moment of truth is super importan. Yes, that like like concept that's kind of talked about a lot, like deliberate practice, like having a real purpose to your practice and not just like you said, flinging arrows around seems to be the way to to really make a difference. Um, So, so this you kind of were lucky in some way. I guess that you had a great role model with your mom being so disciplined. But what if there's like someone out there who, for whatever reason, maybe just how they were raised or their circumstances, they just didn't have a great background, would become a disciplined person. But they like hear about people talking about these things, and they know they want to achieve more, they want to become a better hunter or whatever might be in their life, and they're just kind of struggling to follow through on things they know they should be doing a or B, but the alarm goes off in the morning and they just can't get out of bed. I mean, like, is that is someone just kind of s o l if that's the kind of person they are, or do you think that you can change that? Like, can you become more discipline? And if so, how does someone do that? Uh? Read David Goggin's book, Um, have you read that? I've not read it. I've listened to a couple of podcasts though with him, so I'm familiar with the story and stuff. I mean, yeah, like you know, for for your listeners out there. If you don't like to read, go and go and listen to David Goggins podcast with Joe Rogan. And you know, he was shot and lazy and obese, and he failed, um in a lot of different ways trying to get into special forces in the military. And you know, he had all these really really bad personal traits and tons of weaknesses and he ended up just absolutely hating himself, um to anybody who could never change, you know, and he was a failure for the first half of his life. And his story is super inspiring because he just basically, when you know what, I hate myself, I hate how I am, I'm going to change. And he basically just pulverized himself and made it super hard in his life and turned everything around. And and now he's really inspirationally's culture bit. He's like I think he was a Navy seal for a very long time and um, but he's a great guy to listen to and and read. His book is a total life changer. But I think, you know, life is short, man, Like you're gonna blink and you're gonna be sixty or seventy or eighty years old, and you're gonna look back and just just think you blew it. You we got one shot. There's no reason to laying around in bed eating bond bonds, you know what I mean. Like, if you want to go bow hunting, go bow hunting. I really really good friends on it. They're sending me like bow hunting Instagram blinks all the time, and and like pictures a big Bucks and always talking about hunting. But these guys don't hunt. They don't go hunting. They hunt like in their backyard right now and then, but they talk about hunting all the time. I'm like, you guys are wasting your time if you're you're you're over here sending pictures on my phone. Meanwhile, you haven't hunted in four months, five months, and you can go hunting every day of the year, Like like get out there and go do what you really want to do. If if it surfing, whether it's bow hunting, whether it's trying to get a promotion at your job, whatever, like make it count, you know. And and I love like listening to guys like um, Joe Logan's like that, Camera Kanes is like that, David Goggins is like that, Um Oprah Winfrey's like that. I love listening to these people, like they really do any excuses and then they really like every accounts of our lives. And and unless you really believe that and really like live like that, you're just wasting it. Yeah, I feel like we're so lucky to to to be living lives we are, and most of us live in a place where we have freedoms that are like in an incredible um. You know, we're just super lucky. And I feel like we need to live like we're lucky people. I talked to my kids all the time, you know, I'm like they you know, they get lazy and spoiled a lot, and like, you know, like look, you got you got two arms, two legs, You're healthy. You can go run as fast as you want right now. You can go swinging as fast as you want. You can like go play and have fun. Like think of all the kids that they live in Afghanic down right, know they don't have the choices you have. You don't you don't have the options you have. Sing all the kids that are boring in a wheelcare or they get cancer when they're five years old, they die, like ship happens lice snarlie so and it's quick. So it's like I just feel like, you know, I just gotta make the most of it. Is really the point. That's I really was always wondering what the point of life is, So that's really the point. Make it count. Yeah, that is that is so true. And and like you said, it's you gotta live like you're lucky. And then you also need to realize that in an instant, right, everything could change. You know, it could be a car accident or there could be all these things, so so appreciate every minute too, Like don't don't push things off for tomorrow or for next year or for some day, because some day might not come. So, like you said, you gotta gotta make account and you gotta give it your all, right, I'd hate to. I feel like one of the things people talk about the most, like that lying in your deathbed kind of situation is you don't want to have regrets. You don't want to lie there when you're seventy five or ninety or however old it is, and and lay there and say, what if I wish I would have tried that, or I wish I would have really gave this thing by all, I feel like that would be one of the worst things to be doing there at the end of your life. You know, I don't want to I don't want to live in a way that puts me in that situation. I bet you knowed people on their death that are doing exactly what you're talking about. They're all regretting it. They're all they have always regrets you now looking back and going I wish I did I wish you did that. Like for most of your listeners, they have plenty of time to, you know, to make those changes now. They live in lives now. It's like, you know, you know that's that's that's what I feel like. Anyway, Yeah, I think that is. There are some wise words. So so tell me this. I feel like one of the like a lot of people listen to this podcast are really really driven to take their hunting to the next level. A lot of people are trying to find ways to to learn more, to get better, to become more successful, um and so and so that's kind of why we're talking about this kind of stuff, right, ways to improve yourself, to improve your success in the field and whatnot. Um and and A concept that sometimes talked about is like this idea like going pro. Like when you do something and I don't mean literally going pro, but like when you just do something as a hobby, you're just out there kind of having a good time with it. You're not going to do a lot of things We've talked about having this kind of discipline around it. But if you if you decide you have some goals with that hobby that you want to achieve, then you it almost helps to take that switch and flip it and say all right, you're I'm gonna go pro kind of metaphorically and do these different things. So I I kind of want to dig into the situation for you when you turn pro, because right you you served your whole life as a kid until you got done with high school. When you graduate and corect me if I'm wrong here, but I understand it. When you graduated high school, you decided, you know what, I'm gonna give us a shot. I'm gonna try to go pro and you went out for the tour. Um. What was that shift like for you to go from just like an avid having fun as a as a surfer to then I'm going to go pro? Like what had to be different for you? Simply getting out of my comfort zone. How was everything? You know, I grew up in a little town, um on a pretty quiet island with no pro surfers on it, and um, you know, the amateur surfing here where I lived was you know, I was. I was a good surfer and there was hardly any kids who served even decent. And so I would win every contest. So I was. I was like a big fish in a little pond. And it was very comfortable. You know, I was super comfortable. But um, you know, and it feels good right to win contests. And and then I'll go to other islands where all the kids surfers were, and I get my ask kick and and you know, and you know, that was really uncomfortable, and it's just a it's just I feel like you know, when I when I got older, and I really made that choice to be super determined at the to really give a real shot. It's just a matter of like embracing being uncomfortable. You know, you're gonna you're gonna lose a whole lot more than you're gonna win. And if you can't handle that and you're not cut out for it. And for me, it was a matter of like just getting used to that, like getting used to being uncomfortable, just like David Doggan says, like you know, you're never gonna do anything good if you're comfortable. If you're in your comfort zone, you're not growing, you're not learning, you're not getting better. So for bow hunters, if you want to get better, if you're truly truly want to get better, get out of your comfort zone. If you're a white tail hunter and you live in Ohio, don't just wait for that one white tail hunt you know Ohio every year like you always been doing. Go to a different state on a different species. Um you know, hunt more, go stock them during the off season with that without a boat, like do something, don't like if you really truly want to get better and get better, there's nothing stopping anybody getting you know, get a group of friends together, go to Hawaii and hunt goats for three or four days and it's unlimited and you can hunt them out all day every day. And or if she or deer or anything in Hawaii, or you can go to you can get a group of guys to go to a different state where there's tons of sons of deer and there's you know, you can shoot a bunch of them and I don't know, there's there's just a million things you can do to get better. But I think where it really really starts for the rubber hits the road is when you're out of your comfort zone. Yeah. That that makes a lot of sense. I feel like so true. Like you said, just the simple actor just going to new places is at least in the hunting world can change things up in in big ways that just force you to learn new things that can help you back in the original place. Like if you want to hunt your family farm all the time, that's great, but going and trying these new things will definitely help you develop skills that you can take back there. Um. I've been a huge advocate to for that that idea. Um, So you you had to get outside of your comfort zone. You started, you know, certain you made the tour, you're able to serve professionally now competitively. Now it's like, I gotta at least I'm imagining now that you're doing this, you're traveling across the world surfing, I gotta imagine it became a grind at some point, Like it was probably really exciting and sexy at first, and then it became, oh wow, this is a lot of work. There's a lot of stuff I have to do to stay up on this, to to be able to be competitive, to get better, and you're doing over and over and over and over again. Did you have any kind of routines you had to build in your life, or any kind of training regiment or anything that just helped you a stay sane throughout that grind but be actually like get through it and be successful, anything like that that you kind of built into what your daily life to to make it all work. Yeah. Um, I think that. I think the number one thing is a work ethic was that that was a big thing that changed it for me. Is is really um instilling structure in my life. I went from just being a kid and then and then all of a sudden, it's like you know, as you know, being a kid living at home with my parents too rarely ever seeing my parents within a whole year, and being on the road by myself with my friends, and like all of a sudden, a credit card and money in your pocket and your France or Japan or Indonesia or California or wherever, and like no one's telling you to not party at night. No one's telling you to not go out with the crazy girls you met that day all night long, and like nobody's telling you to to like go to sleep at night at a certain time. And you know, like no one's telling you to not do your stretches and to and to eat really healthy and all that stuff. You don't. I didn't ever had like a manager and agent or supervisor or anybody that was traveling with me. It was just we're on the road like kids. And so for me, it was like serving was truly important. So instead of parting all night and raging with chicks and staying up all night and sleeping in and and you know, eating crappy food and just just you know, like living that kind of lifestyle and and and hoping for the best, I had to like start eating really good food, started physical training, started doing yoga, started doing breathing, started reading books, started really trying to like it better, like find any edge that I could, and trying to make myself better kind of sharpen the knife, so to speak. And and then and then find a balance of like, um, you know, when I was in different places, I would I would have a balance of like being super physically and mentally fit, training all the time, putting a ton to work surfing, um. And then also like having the balance of like going seeing the place is meeting people, experiencing cultures and food and the way of life in all these different places I was visiting. So that was the part that was keeping me sane and the other part was making me better. Yeah, what was the most or maybe a couple of things. But what of these changes, these structures you put in your life, this different training, whether it be mental or physical fitness or any of those things you listed there, what do you think was like the most impactful thing that What was that change that helped you the most? Is there anything that stands out? Um? You know that that nothing stands out from sort of back then, I just became I just grew up. Really, I went from being a kid to be an adult and seeing others around me that became succes us full in trying to and still some of those things in my life, like even you know, from from my mom, getting the discipline and getting structures from some of my other friends who are competing at a really high level, and seeing like the way they would analyze their performances and all that stuff, right, So I started incorporating that into my life. And then as I got older, um, like I talked to um, I talked to Joe Rogan about this, because he's a he lives a very efficient lifestyle. Like he's extremely productive, and he does a lot in the same amount of time that you know, everybody has the same twenty four hours, you know, and it's and it's and it's what we choose to do with it that really makes a difference. And like someone like to a Rogan, he's got a lot more stuff going on than the average person. He's got, you know, full on family and he's a great family man, a great dad too, the husband, and spent tons of time with the family. And then he also he's a full time standard comedian. He's kind of own shows. He's got you know, he's got so much stuff going on with with comedy tours. He you know, he records six podcasts a week. You know, it's just like an extremely productive person. And and I talked to him about this, and and he said that time blocking is the thing that made a huge difference for him. So he looks at his day in those Okay, how much sleep do I need? I need ten hours, I need six hours, I need four hours, whatever it is. And everybody's a little different, right, we all we had all work differently on different different sleep time. So for me, it's about seven to eight hours, So I need seven eight hours. So I tied a block that time out obviously for sleep. And then how many hours a day do I need to spend my kids for me to feel like I'm a great dad. And then I block out that time and like when are those times? It's like before school, after school, and so that gives me this other time in between. And so I blocked times out like I blocked time out for work in my computer. I blocked time out for time to stretch and do my exercises. I blocked time out for my kids. That blocked time out for my wife, blocked time out for my sleeping, blocked time out for my training, and the and then and then that really helps you structure your day instead of just going, you know what, I really need to shoot my boat sometime today, instead of like waiting and wondering when you're gonna shoot your boat, Like, hey, after work five o'clock, you have to get back to the house. That's when I'm shooting my ball to get out of my truck, root my boat and shoot ten arrows for fifty yarrows whatever. If you have time for block out that time and plans for it. Don't don't like hope you're gonna get to it, actually plans for it, you know. And that's I think that's the difference. Yeah, I've heard a lot alolmost same lines. Just the importance of if you get on your schedule in some kind of way, if you actually plan for it, schedule it in there, there's a much greater chance you're actually gonna do it versus just kind of having this idea, oh yeah, i'd like to do that today because you know, like we talked about earlier, all these other things come up and all of a sudden, it's eleven o'clock at night and you didn't do three things that you kind of thought you might do. So that's a that's a really good point. Um. So what about this physical fitness side of things, because that's something I think is becoming more and more relevant to hunters, especially if you hunt you know, Western big game. It's it's very relevant, but even white tail guys more and more people now are getting really into hike and way back back into public land, and they'll they'll carry their tree stand and climbing sticks on their back and they'll hike in as far as they can go and come in and out and try and get way back there where it's hard to get, hard to get to so you can find these older deer. Um. So there's a need more and more to try to be is physically fit as you can be, at least to make sure that's not a variable that holds you back. Um. I know you talked about you started really ramping up your training in those early years professionally, but I also heard that when you retired from the competitive surfing and switched to just the big wave surfing still professionally, but you weren't on the on the tour when you did that, I heard that you took your training to a different level. Um, is that right? And then what does that mean for you? Like, how did you take that train in the next level? Um, Yeah, that's that's correct. When when I was competing full time, I was doing more mostly like a maintenance program. I was like just trying to stay physically sit while I was on the road and I was on the road a ton, Like I was on the road like ten months a year. And so for me, it was like hotel room training and staying you know, staying with a group of guys in a house in France, and like everybody's eating bagats and wine and cheese and trying to you know, find something healthy to eat, and you know, going for a mile run and doing sit ups and push ups and pull up to my room and and so that was like a maintenance program that I was doing. And then once I stopped competing full time, I had more time at home and so I could really scale up my physical famous program. Um. I started doing cross fit a serge, and some really intense circuit training started, like entering like little competitions like little track longs and stuff like that around where I lived, just to help me get more fit. Um. But for me, it was like I really focused on big ways surfing, like really really big ways surfing. So it's like, you know, my training became like survival training. Um, you know, in order for me, She's I think that like for for for surfing, really big grays, the most important components your mindset and and and the mental aspect of it. And if you if you believe that you put in the work, that makes you really really strong mentally. Um And so that's what I try to do. I did. I did. It's a ton of physical fitness. I got crazy on on on a working out and getting fit because I felt like in those moments, I felt like I had done the work and then I really deserved to be out there and I was. I was totally prepared. That's what That's what gave me the confidence in those moments is all that work I put in. So you know, if you if if if killing a big buck this year, a big bowl is your goal, and you sit around and you work, you work all day and you get home and you drink twenty beers and you eat nothing but crap, and then Elsie's you know, comes around and that bowl comes into range. I feel like, mentally, you don't feel like you deserve that bowl and you'll miss, you know what I mean. I feel like our minds are so strong that you don't deserve that bowl if you don't put in any kind of work, and then your your mind so strong that your your mind will tell you to miss. But if you shoot a millionairows, if you try to watch you if you go to the gym and do the StairMaster, because you're gonna go hunt the west. If you don't drink twenty beers a night. You know, if you if you put into that effort, put into work, and you're disciplined, then you feel prepared. You feel like you put in the work, and then you feel like when that bowl comes in, you feel like you deserve that bowl. And then that's really, really, really makes a huge difference in your mind. Your mind feel like you deserve that bowl. You couldn't work, you should kill that bowl. And when you have that mental that, you know, when you're looking at that bowl from that perspective of of you knowing that you earn that bowl, you're going to kill that bowl. You know. Yeah, there's so much to the mental side of things. And that's one of those those I always think about mental toughness and mental preparedness, like how do you how do you build that muscle? And I think you're probably right. It's it's just having done so much work and putting in so much time to just when when you get to those moments, you don't need to think about can I do this or will I be able to do this or whatever. It's it's it's just it becomes instinct, it becomes part of you because you've you've grinded for so long to get to that point. Um. On the on, you mentioned some stuff as far as you know, don't drink twenty beers a night and try to eat decent um. Those are good high level ideas. Do you have any other basic, um, just healthy lifestyle things that have worked well for you, Maybe just some things on the eating side, or or some basic things from the fitness that have helped you, know that have been workable to fit in your life, but have helped you, whether it be surfing or mountain hunting or anything like that. Anything that jumps out, Yeah, I mean just in my daily life. I try and eat one meal out of a blender every day. Um. And I just super simple things like starting in the morning, I drink a whole a really big glass of water before putting anything in my body, like like before putting coffee in my stomach, I drink a big, good, giant glass of water. Um. And then I try to eat how the breakfast and then um, I snack between lunch and breakfast. I snack between breakfast and lunch, I to have a healthy snack like a small smoothie or some fruit something like that, for like a bar if I'm on the if I'm on the go, and then I have to try and to have a healthy lunch like slay like stalmon and rice or some salmon veggies or or like vants and new veggies or something like that. And then I have a snack in between lunch and dinner, and then I have a and then my the smallest meal of the day for me at dinner always, so like I try to think of food is fuel only. So like after dinner, I'm probably gonna go to sleep, so I don't really need a bunch of calories to go to sleep, right Like that's the last meeting. So for me, I eat a pretty good sized breakfast because that's the start of day. I'm gonna be like using those calories all day. And then the same thing for lunch. I got gad the afternoon, I'll probably eat pretty good sized lunch and then I'll have a snack to keep me going, and then dinner is my smallest meal by far, so and um, I I try not to eat lots of rice or lots of potatoes or or French fries or bread or anything like that. Like for dinner, I'll try and eat um, you know, mostly like a typical dinner for me is like sammy and veggies or deer steaks and veggies or gear tacos or something like that, like but really small, you know, just a small meal, and then um, I go to sleep and drink lots of water and try and get a lot of sleep. Do you think that the snacking you do in between your meals is that helping just control your appetite so when it does come to be dinner or lunch, you're not picking out right. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's that's something I'm trying to get better. Yeah. I mean I also drink a lot of water because you know, if I get really really hungry, I I stopped thinking about eating food is fuel, I started thinking about comfort food. I started thinking about birders and fries. Um. If I get really really hungry, and then everything goes out the window. So I try and drink a lot of water, which keeps my stomach fool and then I eat snacks. I eat healthy snacks like planas or apples or bars, or something like that between so I'm not starving when much comes around and then I have I have a plan, like, hey, it's for lunch, this is what I need today, and I'm not like, oh, what should eat? Okay, We'll go to Chipotle and it's just a giant, giant burrito, you know, massive burrito with you know, or a French fries in the burger because when I get hungry, I want French fries in the burger area. Um. Yeah, So I try to I try to stop myself from getting like crazy hungry, and I do that by eating healthy snacks. Yeah. It kind of comes back to that kind of scheduling idea, like how do you do all the things you want to do in your day? You schedule it? Well, how do you make sure you eat in a decent way? Well, you can try to plan ahead versus like those impulse decisions when your your impulse decision making is not nearly as good as your forward thinking. Yeah it's not as it's not as um adventurous and and fun, but it's definitely it's really really good pretty health. Yeah. Yeah, that's something that that definitely I know, I'm trying to find ways to just you know, is most of my goals and the things I'm trying to accomplish are you know, outdoor pursuit related hunting or backcountry backpacking or whatever it might be. You know, trying to find ways to just live a healthier lifestyle. That that seems to be just that area where there's there's a room for improving for a lot of us here in America, no doubt. And it probably just takes a little bit of that discipline, like we just keep on talking about over and over again. Um. On the fitness side, any anything, you know, any basic high level ideas. There are a couple of things that people could try implementing to try to get ready for that that first l con or whatever it might be. Well, just in general, I mean just doing something for thirty minutes, and I feel like I feel like for most people they can they can, um like they'll some people like to swim in a pool and some people hate the water. You know, it's totally different for each person. So find something that you actually can stomach and I to do and do that, but do it for a certain amount of time, and do it for a certain amount of days every week. So if that's walking on a treadmill. UM. If it's that simple, then just go to the gym four days a week and do it for thirty minutes a day. Whatever it is. UM. But like specifically for um, like for elk or hunting the West, definitely like care master or going to treadmill and put as vertical as you possibly can. UM. And even better than that is like you know, if you have time and there's a hill around or stairs or something like that, but I really heavy back crack on kind of walk up and down the stairs, or walk up and down the mountain on the hills, you know. So that's definitely is a lot of the best thing you can do. And then like high elevation, like where I live, there's you know, I I live at four thousand and then just up the street from my house the mountain goes to eight thousand feet. So I can do a lot of a lot of my hunting. I hunt sheep a lot of like seven eight and so I do a lot of like higher elevation hunt anyway. So UM, but I do us love I love I love like alpine hunts. I love, UM you know that sort of like adventure backpack doing yourself kind of like wilderness kind of hunting out at um. Yeah, so I went, you know, whenever I have a hunt like that coming up, I definitely try to put put the time in, so you know, I can't I can't blame my physical fitness for not killing able. Yeah, speaking of this kind of training stuff and not necessarily just physical fitness, but this kind of reminded me of something I heard you talk about once where you were talking about the importance to train for these worst case scenarios, and you talked about like a big wave scenario when you wipe out and you're underwater for a minute or something, and you talked about this I think it was the Ocean Warrior course UM, where you train for those kinds of situations. You put yourself in that like life or death scenario UM to make sure that when those real things happened, you were ready for it. Can you just kind of talk about what that was like and why that kind of thing is is helpful for people? Yeah? Um, so so for need surfing really big waves, it's it is really truly a life and death type of situation. That's there. I've had a lot of friends that died surfing big waves and what I do, and um, they honestly, they almost always die drowning. So being underwater for too long he di um. And so I've done a lot of underwater breast training to to like building my lungs, but more importantly just to get mentally tougher. UM. So you put yourself in extremely uncomfortable situations so that when uncomfortably uncomfortable situation presents itself and it's a really really it's real life, it's not shocking. So you know, if you want to become an feel you don't wait until you're in Afghanistan and be uncomfortable, you know what I mean. You you do a ton of training that is all horribly, horribly uncomfortable and just suffer fast. And then when you get to Afghanistan and you're suffering and you're feed or full of blisters, and you're cold and you're wet, and people shooting at you, and you feel like the world's crashing down because that's not your first time because you've been through the training, you've suffered your horrible stuff with and and so it's very similar with surfing. You you try and recreate all those things anticipated happening in real life. So under controlled situation. I'll go into a pool with with a friend who's watching me, and I'll basically hold my breath as long as I possibly can and do all these crazy exercises and try and hold your best for a long time and do all these circuit training underwater. It's like doing like a jam work out what you're doing underwater in a pool, and sometimes you even go all the way to where you black out. And that's why you have to add do it with somebody, a partner that's going to be sitting there and waiting for that to happen, and then when it does happen, they can bring you up safely. And so when I'm so and I'm serving really big ways and i go under and I'm underwater for a very very long time, instead of like hoping I'm not dying, I'm going back to my process of I've done this before. I've been underwater for you know, five and a half minutes before, I've been underwater for a minute and forty five seconds with a superior heart rate, And I know what this is like. It sucks. It's it's feels like you're going to die, but you have plenty of time and I have all that information in your head and be thinking about all that stuff. It stops you from panicking. And that's that's what keeps you living. That's that's that's how you survive. So have you had had an instance, Yeah, have you had an instance now since you've done a lot of this training where you found yourself in that scenario and you were actually able to kind of step outside of yourself mentally and have that like self talk happen or is it is it just instinct and you do all these things that you're not actually talking yourself through it underwater? Yeah, I know I've had those situations and I definitely talked to talk, definitely talking to myself to to just like remember all the training and remember all the steps and remember all the the times where I felt like that. Um. But if you do it enough, you don't really need to think about it that much. You know. It's just like you become comfortable with being UNCOMFORTA will do what it's all about, do you see now? Of course, not that kind of specific situation, but there are there any parallels as far as what people could do to train for the worst case scenario in hunting. Like I'm imagining right, what I'm jumping to, Like, archery is a great thing to point too, because there's ways you could kind of train for the worst case scenario from an archery standpoint, But I don't know, is there any other ways you see that translating to what you do as a hunter or what other people might Yeah, dude, it's like it's you know, if you if it's it's just come down to like what's important. Like you know, I have friends that from Hawaii that you know, they're like, I'm gonna go hunting this year for elk, and then they go hunting for elk, and you know, like I'll talk to him and I'll be like, why are you calling me on the phone? Are you supposed to be elk hunting? And they're like, yeah, it was snowing, Yeah it was raining, Yeah it was super cold today, or yeah there's elk purn't around. So I came out, I came and got a hotel, and I'm gonna cho for a few days until the snow passes or till the storm pauses, or until it gets warmer. You know what I mean. Like, if you if you wait into your elk hunting to be uncomfortable with you. If you wait to your elkhning to be cold, if you wait till your elk hunting to have your feet sword, if your weight who as you wait to elkinning to have your legs cramping up and sword, then you're gonna fail. Dude. You know it's like so simple, but we're just lazy. We're so comfortable now, and just like modern society is so comfortable, it becomes soft and just like like a country of pussy's. Really I hate ain't that, but it's true and I'm totally guilty too. Like our lives are so comfortable these days, they really are. And and so if you have an elk hunt coming up, Sugar, act like it, live like it, you know, like put the pack on on the weekend, like you know, cut out an hour out of your schedule and go, you know what, honey, on Saturday morning, I'm gonna be gone for an hour, find the steepest mountain around where you live, but a fifty pound pack on and walk up and down it a bunch of times and break those boot team, get the blizzers. Figure out what socks work, what what sox don't beat, and if if it's Saturday morning and eight o'clock when you told your wife you're going to go and do that and it's pouring rain. Just what, don't don't go to breakfast instead, don't sit in bed and chill until the rain goes away. But on the range here, go do it just like you would elk hunting. Like it's the same thing when you're elk hunting. If you're in your tent and it's cold and raining, put your raineer on and go hunt. They're almost still out there, you know what I mean? Like no excuses. I feel like if you if you're always looking for an excuse, there's always gonna be one. Yeah. Man, I feel like if you're willing to do that, if you're willing to go through that suffer fest, whether it be the training suffer fest or when it's the actual real deal suffer fest out there and you go through the ship and you get out the other side like that. Yeah, maybe it doesn't sound like fun in the moment, but those are, at least for me, those are the experiences that like the stick with you the most, Like when you have to suffer and go through this really tough stuff, like that's kind of that's when you feel most alive, I think, and when you look back on it, I feel like that was that was worth doing. You know. For for a number of years, I didn't know anything about elk hunting. You know, I was pretty new to hunting. This isn't Like two thousand and six, I started going elk hunting with my buddy from here in Hawaii who had gone elk hunting a few times. But we didn't know how to call elk. We didn't know how to hunt elk. We just did a little bit of research online, like as much as we could, but I had no idea how to research anything. So I was just going off his information of where to go, and we we like rented a car and drove to the trailhead and then walk as far as we possibly could, Um, found the found the water, the highest the highest creek on the map that we could, and then um, you know it is And we hunted up for like three years like that, like hardcore back country do it yourself over the counter tag, you know, trying to beat other hunters, tons of people around and trying to walk further, you know, wake up earlier and just put in a hardcore miles and then So I did that for three years and on my third year end up killing a bowl and then that was a massive That was a huge accomplishment for me. In the next year, I was so excited to go back and we were supposed to go back and plan a trip, bought my ticket, organized everything kind about three year. Four days before I left, my friend called me that I can't go. Too bids busy, something came up, I can't go, And so I was thinking, like what do I do, like come by myself like in calle. I like, what, you know, what should I just call it? Call the trip off? It would have been so easy to call the trip off? And instead I or I ordered a satellite phone for I rented a satellite phone for a week and I said, screw it, I'm going. And so I did that hunt called by myself, and and hike eight miles back and up from my park and hunted for you know, eight days by myself. And I didn't kill a bull, but I went through multiple and knowledge snowstorms, um bear tracks next to my next to my tent, lightning storms, or I had to move my tent the middle of the night, almost getting traveled by Elton Middle of the night, like so many crazy things that would have been so easy to pull steaks and just get out of there and like go back down to the holiday inn, and I just made myself like suffer through it. And man, those are the times I don't remember, Like I don't remember all the times when I was like looking for some giant bowl at the time, but I remember all those moments of where I felt like I was about to die or felt super like you know, the crazy roller coaster of emotions that come with you know, thinking there's a bear outside at night you're by yourself, or crazy snowstorm or bear tracks or um. You know, all that sort all those sort of things that you go through or like they're just that's that's when you feel like you're living at you know, It's like if you if you always go back to the holiday and when it starts snowing, that you're only living your life. That's a shitty way, just not the way to do it. Agree. So, so what is going through your mind when you're in that scenarre You're out there by yourself and all this ship is happening, the blizzard, the bears, um, Like, how do what's your like self talk in that kind in those kinds of moments like do you have are you like talking yourself through things? Are you are you just thinking about, Hey, you've got this goal you really want to work towards it, or like what is it? How do you deal with that stuff? For you? Um, well, I've learned a lot from from different people that I've hunted with. I hunted with Adam green Tree quite a bit in Australia, and he loves to suffer. He's like a suffer guy. He loves being uncomfortable, and but he's got little tricks like when he's super cold and he's by himself and he's lonely and it's snowing and it's he's in his tent, stuck there in his nighttime and he's hearing bears and stuff, he'll start a fire. He'll still, He'll light a candle. He'll you know, like the some think about fire is super soothing and like to humans, like if it's just dark and you're by yourself and you have your headlamp on, it creates anxiety, it creates stress, creates fear. But if you have a little fire going, even if it's a tiny little fire, it really helps that want that, you know, and that's something about the flame. Just as humans, it's like mellows us out. It lowers our stress, makes us way more you know, chilled out, and like makes it, you know, less depressed more just just in general, like that makes you feel better. There's a lot of like little things like that, getting plenty of rest, like taking little breaks and meditating. There's a lot of things you can do to like get through those periods where, um, sometimes it seems unbearable. You know, Yeah, I feel those things can definitely be really tough, and it definitely comes back down to the mental side of things. And you mentioned something which I don't know much about. And for a long time I always thought it was kind of like woo woo. But the more and more I kind of study people that are doing great things with their lives, you keep hearing about it over and over and over again, and I'm starting to wonder is there something to this? Um? And you said meditating, Is that something that in any way you like, is actually part of your life in some way? Is that helpful? It is, um, And it may not be like another person's I think there's a lot of different meditating you know, there's a lot of different sorts of meditating. There's the kind where you're shitting um, you know, with a with cross legisition with your kind of not perfect position and you're like, oh mom, that ty of meditating. And everyone has a different type of meditation. For some some people it's like during yoga poses for some people during breathing exercises. But yeah, I do I have, I have. I I usually do sort of meditation when I'm when I'm stretching, and my exercises I do is really slow exercises, like for my back. My back does really tweaked sometimes, and so I have like a um, like a little routine that I do. I meditate during that and then. But yeah, I mean I think meditation to be really a good and everyone has your own way of doing that, but it's a just a way to relaxt and the focus and I think that's good especially to you on like at that country hunt by yourself where you're really uncomfortable or something like that. I just was thinking about the story like on Colorado with my buddy and it was, um, it was September and it's it's hot, and one day we woke up really early in the morning, one in the morning, in the pitch black, and walked up over this huge region. Took us forever to get there, and it started snowing like crazy, and it started raining like crazy and then snowing again, and I was soaked to the bone. I was so cold. It went for I was planning it it being like sixties seventy degrees and it was like thirty degrees and it was freezing cold. And I was soaked to the bone, like socks were soaked a shitty reindeer on. It all got wet. I was miserable. All I wanted to do was walk back to the truck and started to heat her on, even though it was like three hours away, and um, and I remember my friend was just like, no, we're gonna stop, and we're gonna make a fire. And we gathered our would have made a huge, giant infernal and we had the best time ever. We had like a two hour dry out. We took off all of our face, the all of our clothes and like dried it out in the tree and it all got dry and warm, and we were there was just something about that fire, and we even though it was just like two hours of the game. We were completely dry and the weather broke, we got nice and then we we hunted all day long, super hardcore, instead of walking back to the truck all the way. It just completely changed our perspective on our outlook and we just had an type of day of hunting. And so there's like little things like that you can do just change change the situation that you're in and and just makes all the difference. It's like a little mental reset, right. I feel like that's That's one of the things I hear people talk about, Like you said, like back on the meditation thing, Like some people assume that meditating is like that home deal, But I keep on hearing from people that are talking about it more so just being like just finding a way to kind of take control of your like just what's going on in your mind and just like focus on something and just kind of resets you just a little bit. Um. I could imagine that being helpful. It is no matter. I think for me, it's like a it's like a makes making sure that that you're living according to your priorities and your goals, you know, instead of just doing what's comfortable all the time. I keep coming back to that. But as I think that's the thing that's like the main thing for me is like really like remembering my priorities and my goals and what I really want to do and then like living my life accordingly, you know every day in that way. Do you have a way to like keep track of that or make sure you're like you're staying on point. I know, like some people I've heard some people talk about like every night before they go to bed, they try to think about like three things are grateful for, or like the two things that really matter, or something that ways to keep reminding yourself making sure you're you're thinking about these things. Is there anything like that that you do um to keep those priorities straight? Yeah, It's it's mostly just focusing on my goals or you know, like focusing on things that I want to achieve, or using on little things that are coming up, like say, say I'm going hunting, you know six weeks from now for access to hear on now, Like I'll have that on my calendar and every night before I go to sleep or during the day, I'll think about that and be like, hey, those you are going to be there. I know they are gonna be some big book and so I need to go shoot my bow. I'm gonna do that tomorrow at twelve o'clock, right before you go pick up my kids from school, you know. So I try to try to stay stay motivated to do the things I need to do in my life that I want to do so I can achieve those goals that are coming up in the future. Yeah, in that makes sense. Yeah it does. I feel like I can do something similar. And you know, when there's tough things that maybe I don't want to do right away, I can always think to those goals and remind myself, well, it doesn't feel great to jump out of better right now because you're really tired, but you have that hunt coming up. So those are good ways to always just keep you motivated and keep you focused, keep your eyes in the progress. Um. Now, what about the flip side of all this though, Because I've bously you're you're very goal oriented, very achievement oriented. You're you're focused on the priorities, you're doing good work, you're pushing to be the best you can be. Um, there's this flip side of though, this, which is where things go too far. Maybe you know, like I know, I remember hearing about you talking in the earlier is eve a professional career when the competitive surfing, you know, doing the tour and stuff, you kind of burn out on it. Something just lost the the fun or or something was wrong there and you burnt out on it. You went so hard that it lost you lost the love for the game. Maybe. UM, I feel like that can happen in the hunting world too, where you you go so hard, you love it so much, you push push, push, push push. You're hunting twenty five days straight, all day, every day if you have the time. Um, and then all of a sudden you realize, like it's it's consumed your life. It's taken over your life, maybe in a in a negative way. UM, how do you how did you deal with that in that situation when you kind of shifted your professional focus? What was that like for you? And then how do you think about burnout and letting your drive go too far and balancing all that? You know, it's it's Um. The serving thing is really different in in you know, like in regards to what you're talking about, because, um, you know, I feel like if you're in sports, whether you're whether you're like a professional golfer or professional basketball player or a professional surfer. Like it's such a high pressure situation. There's so many people that want your job and you it's just like the least amount of job security you could ever have as being a professional athlete, and so it's just looking for that edge all the time and putting in more work. It's kind of you sort of have to be completely selfish and almost sacrifice almost every other aspect of your life in order to become successful in athletics or any kind of sports or you know, being being a professional athlete, Like everything else followed by the wayside in order for you to succeed at what you want to do in in being being a pro athlete. And so for a long long time, basically everything else in my life completely suffered. I lived a very selfish lifestyle because I sort of had to in order to succeed. Um and now it's it's definitely not nearly as much and still go oriented. I'm still pretty disciplined. I still have a lot of things I want to achieve and everything, but it's not so um grindy, it's not so hardcore and I and there's and and now it's I have much more of a healthy balance um in my life. I really like, the most important thing in my life now is my family, and I know that. So I'll be gone on a surf trip, which for me is a work trip, you know, for three weeks, and I'll come home and I really want to go go hunting, and I want to jump on a plane and go hunt deer on Valley. But my my number one priority in my life is my family, so I don't. I don't do that. I come home and try and spend a bunch time with my family, and then I'll work up some time and when I do get a moment, I'll try and be bohuding. But but first I gotta I gotta make sure that's my family, because they are number one, and so I'm able to you know, they are my ultimate priority right now. And I'm very lucky to be in a situation of my life now where I can kind of put them first and I can still keep my job and I can still do my job really well. And but yeah, it's a much much healthier balance. And then with bow hunting also, like bow hunting is is a really really important part of my life. It keeps me sane and it's something that I'm super passionate about and I love doing. But I don't do it too much. I probably I don't. I don't know how much I hunt. My wife would probably think I hunt a lot, but I don't think I hunt that much at all. That But but I do absolutely love it. But I think I love it as much as I do because I don't get to do it as much as I like that makes sense. I have an issue. I do hunt a lot. I probably hunt. I probably hunt. I don't know, maybe like forty days a year. Yeah, it's quite a bit for most people. I have an issue where I get so focused on some kind of task. Usually it's it's work related, so hunting related or or the work side of what I do. UM. So I'm very like task orient, very very goal oriented. I get like all in and I get tunnel vision. I get so focused on it because I so badly want to achieve whatever goal that is that sometimes I just completely lose sight of these other parts of my life, like sometimes family stuff. Um. And So I'm trying to get better at like being able to become aware when I'm doing that, like having some kind of self awareness where I can say, WHOA, you're going too far. You need to take a step back and remember everything else is going on. Um. Maybe maybe given some of the stuff you said, maybe that's something you've dealt with at times. Do you have a way that you're able to kind of pull yourself out of that when you realize you're going too hard with work or something and you can I don't know, do you have any ways that have helped you to just kind of have that self awareness? Yeah, I mean every you know, I I just I just try to keep a balance. It's really but like every now and then, you know, things come up with work where I have to do um trips back to back to back to back, um, and there's some certain things that I can't say no to and and I sort of have to go and and sometimes they build up at the wrong time. So it's really difficult and kind of hard on my family, like gone a lot, Like you know, in a three month period, I might be gone for like you know, six or seven weeks out of three months, and and so it's it's it can be really hard in my family. But for me, I just go okay, like because you know, as I get back I'm gonna spend tons and tons of times, So we're going to block out time right when I get home to really spend time with my family and do some some really special things. Like I'm I'm spending a ton of time with my son because my son is really into surfing now, so we actually spend a lot of time together because we go on search trips together now. Um. But then I really try to remember to to make my daughter a priority, and so when I get home, I try and spend a ton of time with my daughter and and sort of make sure it's even if it's not equal. I she knows that it's not all about my son, and that's a real real priority for me to make sure that she knows that I'm there for her as well. Yeah, that's awesome, I have I'm just starting to fear all that out. I have a year and a half old son and um, a tack of a learning experience, So I can totally relate to what you're saying, and I can imagine it's just going to become a bigger and bigger thing that I have to be thinking about how to make sure to balance all that. Um, I think that's probably a good place to start because a lot of people do the same. It's the same thing, and that's you know, how do you balance your passion for the outdoors or hunting or your job or whatever. How do you balance that with your with your family and stuff. So maybe to wrap it up, do you have one, you know, final thing that you've learned about, whether it be this issue of balance or maybe even I know I've I've seen you taking your son and out hunting with you and stuff. Anything you've learned as far as introducing a child to the outdoors and these kinds of things. Um, maybe maybe leave us with an idea like that. I'm sorry, what was questioning again? I'm just as curious if you had any anything you've kind of learned about introducing your son to the outdoors and hunting and what that's been like. Yeah, I think it's I think the I think the biggest lesson for me with with introducing my my kids to archery and belonging is is just like reinstilling what it's really all about, you know, Like how you mentioned at the start about you know, like newer hunters that that's you know, like look at Instagram. Ye all his massive blocks and the massive bulls, and they end up like holding out for some big trophy, um, but they're really missing out on tons of experiences. And I feel like when you have kids, you know, and you know, if you like, for me, I introduced my son to bull hunting, and it's when when you're hunting with your son, you know, we're hunting hogs or goats or keep or whatever it is, and it's like, it's not about the antlers. It's not about what the biggest one is. It's about those experiences with your kids there. It's you know, and that those experiences with your family, or that those experiences with their friends, and it's all about going on those adventures and experiences of of life. You know, like the antlers don't matter. They're they're great, they're fun and everything, it's really fun, but they really it's really it's really like for me, it's like a low priority situation. And and I think introducing my son to both hunting really sort of instilled why I was hunting, because I was starting to hunt with people that are real high level hunters and and even like people who get paid to go hunting and that's kind of their job and so they have to kill big stuff all the time. Every single hunt they go and have to be a big trophy hunt, and I don't really want to do that. I want to sort of get away from having that perspective. I just want to have hunts that that are really satisfying and challenging, and at the end of the year, like look back on the hunt I did that year and les go, well, I really needs an incredible hunts with incredible people and things I canna remember forever. Yeahome, I think you're right. Kids are a really great way of of kind of like recentering you with those sorts of things, just kind of opening your eyes to the fun of stuff again because everything is so exciting and new to them. And I've I've already found that with my son. Just it's it's cool to relive and to just find the joy and the little things again. And I think they help us do that. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, well this is awesome. I I actually, um sorry. One last thing I think it's really cool that I want to share the readers is a friend of mine who's a bow hunter. He I got this idea from him, but basically every year, at the end of the year, I go through all my hunts and all the photographs that I took on all my hunts. I put them all together and one of those like really cool copy tables picture books, um, like from Apple or shutter Flyer or whatever, and they're really cool, and so I have one for like the last like like years of my hunting. Wife Like each year, I have a photo book. And it's a really really neat way to like remember all the memories, whether you're hunting with your son or your father or your really good buddies or by yourself, just like documenting those hunts and putting all those hunts in a picture books for a year. Um, it's a really really neat way to to you know, stay motivated to go hunting and stay motivated to shoot your boat. Just having in your office sitting there and just pick it up some time to time, or if your body has come over to have a couple of beers, they can have a look what the hunts that they're wrong with you or or if you went hunted out them, they can see what it's all about. That just hearing the stories, and um, I think that's a really really neat way to remember that, you know, what's really important about hunting and just the adventure and the stories and and all the all the really neat places that we get to go to and people will get to hunt with. Yeah, so true, that's a great idea. And it really it's funny these days with you know, we take sony pictures because we've got these cameras in our phones now, so I've got probably more pictures than ever, but I never look at them because it's you know, it's it's not I don't know, but for whatever reason, I feel like you don't go scrolling through your phone and looking kind of for fund and all these pictures like you might look at a book under table, you know, for sure. Yeah, good idea. Well, Shane, this has been awesome. I really enjoyed the chat um really interesting perspective. So thanks for taking the time to do this. No worries. I appreciate being on the on the podcast. Yeah, and if anyone wants to wants to learn more about what you got going on, or you know, is there anywhere they should be following you on social media or anything? I know you you've done a lot of films and things like that. You know, it's a great documentary out there, Um, anything that you'd suggest people check out. Um yeah, on HBO right now. Uh sorry, on HBO right now. We have the Momentum Generation documentary as a documentary about um, my friends and I growing up in surfing and competing and all the crazy things that's happened during our lives. And it's a really good documentary. Actually just want the an Emmy for the Best Sports Documentary of the Year. And um, so it was a great film and really I didn't have anything with producing it, but um it's a really cool film. If anybody wants to watch it, it taps out there. You follow me. I'm not really really active on a lot of social media. I do Instagram, Um, Shane Dorian it's you can just search me, you know it will come up, but not follow me. And that's it really awesome. Well, we appreciate Shane and good luck is coming out in season. Thanks so much. You do all right, And that is a rap. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. In addition to that documentary we just mentioned, if you want to see more from Shane yet, he has a really cool short film out on YouTube that features him and you get see a little bit of his hunting background and how he's sharing that with his son, which is really cool. Um there's actually some other great videos on YouTube to showing him surfing. Some of these just massive waves give you a little bit insight into what he's doing and how intense that is. So check all that stuff out, and I hope you are able to take some of these ideas, especially stuff around discipline or putting yourself in the comfortable situations that really stood out to me as things I could take right into my own life to become a better hunter. And I love those kinds of opportunities to learn. So I hope you took as much from this as I did. And until next time, good luck out in the woods, good luck with your scouting, good luck hanging stands or planning food plots or training, whatever might be. And until next time, stay wired to hunt.

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