00:00:00 Speaker 1: I'm KC and I'm Tyler and you're listening to the Element podcast. 00:00:04 Speaker 2: Really, what is happening all my woods people? 00:00:16 Speaker 3: We finally hit it. 00:00:18 Speaker 4: Finally we have hit the dolgeums of Sumburbside right now. I know it might be snowing where you're at, but down here the highs ninety six and it doesn't really below that for the next two weeks. 00:00:31 Speaker 3: Case what. 00:00:32 Speaker 1: There's a very very popular series called Friday Night Lights. Yeah, for a lot of people, you know why they played at night. That's exactly right. That's from the Midland area, which is kind of West Texas, out bottom of the Panhandle, West Texas kind of area. I met a guy from there recently and this morning he told me they just moved out here to where we live. He said, I'd rather deal with ninety five out there than like eighty here. 00:00:58 Speaker 5: I believe it, and I just don't. 00:01:00 Speaker 1: I don't know if people understand. 00:01:01 Speaker 3: It ain't good. 00:01:02 Speaker 6: It ain't good. 00:01:04 Speaker 4: But it's a good time of year for First Lights on Yuma Gear to come out. It's the new hot weather stuff in First Light, the other podcast brought to you by first Light Gear. 00:01:13 Speaker 5: Go check out the Yuma stuff. It's new on the website. 00:01:16 Speaker 3: Can you spell that? 00:01:17 Speaker 4: Why you am a like the town in Arizona Uma. 00:01:22 Speaker 1: Like a South America big cat, but with a why not a Puma? 00:01:32 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the one. 00:01:35 Speaker 4: If if you are playing on chasing some stuff in early season this year. I used it last year and I like it. It's pretty good. 00:01:40 Speaker 5: It's really lightweight, but just like all. 00:01:44 Speaker 4: You know poly stuff, it's really good for dissipating sweat. But it does get stinky, so you gotta wash it. But that's the way it goes. 00:01:52 Speaker 5: Man. 00:01:54 Speaker 4: We got something pretty cool today. If you haven't noticed, there is a new YouTube YouTube video out with Giannis but tell Us and us hunting Access Deer on the Media channel. It's one of my more favorite videos that we've put out, just because I absolutely adore access to here and they keep finding their way away from my arrows and doylers too. But you just need to watch the video if you have, and there'll be a link to that down below. Also, speaking of YouTube channels, yeah, there's a new podcast network. It's called the Media Podcast Network. It's on YouTube. If you listen to podcasts on YouTube, you can listen to any of the media network podcasts that includes our buddy Mark Kenyon, Klay Nukelean with Wired to Hunt and Bear Grease. You can listen to the media to proper or you can listen to us there. Even if you're listening here, you're probably this is probably your preferred podcast, you know interface. But anyway, just so you know, if you're ever on YouTube you want to go watch or listen to a podcast. Sometimes there may be some video podcast in the future. I'm not sure exactly what we've got planned for us, but go check that out. You can listen to it there, and yeah, we've. 00:03:12 Speaker 1: Got all the episodes are on there, so it's pretty easy to go to the playlist, the Element playlist there and that network and find it. 00:03:19 Speaker 4: And speaking of YouTube videos, what we're about to play for you is a campfire archery set up session that we did with Giannis while we were on that Axis hunt and it's very much a conversation, but there are some visuals involved with some arrows and some stuff like that. So if you want to tune in to maybe a little bit more of the visual aspect of this conversation, head over to the Element YouTube channel right now and you can find that I think, what's it called archery setups with the Honest but tell us maybe or something like that. 00:03:55 Speaker 3: It sounds something aerobals with. 00:03:56 Speaker 5: The honest, but tell us either way. 00:03:59 Speaker 4: If you haven't s dub the Element channel, you need to and then you'll just know where that video is and you won't have to listen to me bubble through the seven titles that we considered for the For the video, it's gonna be. 00:04:11 Speaker 6: Called Oh, keep going here. 00:04:14 Speaker 4: Going our arrows set up with Yanni's Patilla's camp Fire discussion. 00:04:20 Speaker 2: So the video side of that's on there. Leave a comment if you got questions or whatever. 00:04:24 Speaker 4: We'd love to be able to answer that stuff down in the comments because we go into a lot of details about broadheads and arrows and all that, but we will get to that conversation now. 00:04:33 Speaker 7: Yeah, what's up y'all? 00:04:57 Speaker 4: Casey Smith, Tyler Jones and we are hunting with if Giannis betell Us down here in Texas. We've been chasing around some access deer and some pigs with archery equipment, and that's what we're gonna talk about today, is particularly our arrow and broadhead setups and what has led us to our. 00:05:14 Speaker 5: Current choices we're gonna go through some of the. 00:05:17 Speaker 4: Follies, some of the successes, and some of the things that have impacted our decisions throughout the years to make us land where we have. So Yannis, you have have you have a very interesting setup in my opinion. 00:05:31 Speaker 5: Really actually nice. 00:05:32 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting. It is, especially playing with this one. 00:05:36 Speaker 5: I think we'll get into that, right. 00:05:38 Speaker 4: But I'm sure that you probably started with something a lot different than what you currently shoot, right. 00:05:46 Speaker 5: So if you can draw back, what year did you start bowhunting? 00:05:50 Speaker 3: I probably I hunted a little bit in high school and that would have been like ninety three ninety four ish, But I never never killed a deer back than in Michigan. I could not tell you what broad hit I might have been out there hunting field points, but I know, I honestly do not know. But when I started bow hunting again around two thousand and one, I was hunting with a recurve. 00:06:14 Speaker 4: And so you decided that you're going to just go straight trad bow, you know, like your reintroduction. 00:06:20 Speaker 5: T Ar Tree. 00:06:21 Speaker 3: Sometimes that we can all be swayed by you know who, other people around us, and it just so happened that everybody and the crew that I ran with all shot trad and uh yeah, you know, wheels were for bicycles or whatever. I can't remember what they all. 00:06:36 Speaker 5: Ryan Callahan's that cool that you were just. 00:06:38 Speaker 3: Like, yes, this was a long time before Ryan, Ryan. But anyways, so yeah, so I shot a recurve for a while, and you know, I think that back then my broadhead of choice was probably a Ziwiki or a Magnus Stinger. I think we're the two that I was rocking. 00:06:57 Speaker 5: What do you think that set of way. 00:07:00 Speaker 3: Man? I was probably in the five hundred to five fifty realm, which is like all trad guys shoot heavy arrows, right because you're bow slower, so you need more weight for the penetration. I think it's the common belief, right. 00:07:15 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's the tail of the tape there. Did you have traditional wooden raws or were you shooting a Lindum shoft. 00:07:21 Speaker 3: You know a good buddy of mine, James Miller, owns custom what's the heck the name of this company? Right now? It's gonna escape me. 00:07:33 Speaker 5: Sorry case I just point out of Tyler too, you know, like I. 00:07:38 Speaker 3: Get that he also he owns a tile company too. That's custom tilecrafting in Eagle, Colorado. And now what is name of his aerial business? Anyways, if you look up James Miller Custom Arrows, Ego, Colorado, you'll find him. But he makes a compressed tapered wooden shaft really which and it's footed so he does footings on it to get foc their works of art. When you get us set, you don't really want to go on with them because they're so pretty. So I did shoot some of his, but I did realize that it was in my head. I couldn't get away from the fact that I felt like there was something more consistent. And so when I shot a you know, twelve inch group at twenty yards, I didn't know was it all me? Maybe it was the wooden arrows, And so then I started shooting the gold tips. 00:08:24 Speaker 5: Gotcha. 00:08:25 Speaker 4: So, Tyler, you did not start out with traditional equipment from what I understand, right, So tell me a little bit about your early bowing. 00:08:33 Speaker 1: My early bowing was done usually with a hand me down. So first they did. My dad did buy me a bow. 00:08:40 Speaker 6: That was like a youth that pulled forty five pounds. 00:08:43 Speaker 1: I happened to break my arm in a football game in seventh grade, and I continue to play the rest of the season because but then told me I needed to and I wasn't really hurt, but I couldn't pull my bow back by the end of the season, and then he was like, oh, we might should get some X rays on this thing. 00:08:57 Speaker 3: That bow. 00:08:57 Speaker 6: Almost I don't know if I ever even shot. 00:09:00 Speaker 3: Than an animal. 00:09:00 Speaker 1: Went did, And so I went into the essentially the Matthews hand me down loop. That was my dad's hand me down bow always, and that's when I shot Matthews for forever, and they were always older bows. But I pretty much whenever I started actually hunting deer with a bow, I was sixteen, I believe, and maybe seventeen, and I was pulling seventy pounds and I'm shooting whatever arrows my dad had put in my case, so gold tip carbon express arrows, probably somewhere like total arrowaight. I had one hundred grain heads and I was probably in the arrowaights were probably in the mid four. 00:09:45 Speaker 6: Hundreds or something like that maybe, So that's kind of what I started with. 00:09:48 Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, I started with a hand me down as well. 00:09:51 Speaker 5: Well. 00:09:51 Speaker 4: First I did buy or my dad bought me a pawn shop bow that I don't even know what the brand was, you know, it was unlabeled, and that was really kind of a get in the yard and just strengthen the muscles and kind of do that kind of stuff, and a bunch of illunin aluminum eras, and then I got a hand me down psc Fireflight for my dad, which if you were around in the mid nineties like that was that was the ticket back then, right, And so that was pretty cool. Killed my first buck with that, shooting illuminum ares. But then once I got kind of to make my own decisions, I got a pseudo hand me down Matthew's Adrenaline, which is. 00:10:32 Speaker 5: One of the greatest bows ever made in my opinion. It's a solo can bad at the bone, right. 00:10:36 Speaker 4: And I went to the bow shop like many of us do, and not to just credit the work that guys at bow shops do, because our bow shops awesome, love those guys. But at that point in time, the thought was four hundred and twenty four hundred and fifty grains something like that, shooting real fast and you put a mechanical on the end of it. 00:10:57 Speaker 5: And they're gonna go down, right, So that's kind of a. 00:11:00 Speaker 3: Year was that that would have been. 00:11:05 Speaker 5: Once I did that? What that was two thousand and eleven, whenever I made that move. 00:11:13 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that might have even been on the tail end of the ultra fast super lightweight arrow potentially. 00:11:19 Speaker 5: But in Texas we adapt or we adopt things a little later than okay, you know, and I. 00:11:24 Speaker 4: Don't I don't know if I would even say that that that is even a movement. 00:11:29 Speaker 5: We just got mullets, yes, I'm right in Texas or scullets, and I'm not gonna take my hat off of that. 00:11:33 Speaker 4: But I think that you just have sub sex within archery, and I think that there's still, especially in the South, for white tail deer hunters, that's the standard go to set up. Still, Like, I don't, I don't think that. Like I think that the movement that you're speaking of towards. 00:11:50 Speaker 3: Heavier arrows is a little bit no, no, no, I'm speaking of the movement to lighter arrows that happened like in the early two thousands. 00:11:56 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, like with the overdrawls and all that stuff. Sure, yeah, I thought you were implying that that movement ended. 00:12:02 Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, it might have. I don't know. I mean, I think it's just from what we're all of us sitting here. No one's shooting a super fast light earrow anymore, so if we're, if we're any sign of that. But yeah, don't let me get you off track. 00:12:19 Speaker 5: No, it's okay. 00:12:20 Speaker 4: I think that that's kind of a important thing to kind of address, is that, like there's archery is very subjective, right, and I mean it's it's evident just from bows. I will shoot one bow better than you will shoot that bow, and then you will have a different draw length than me. 00:12:38 Speaker 3: How long is your drawing twenty nine and a half? 00:12:40 Speaker 4: Okay, so you don't have a super long drilling, but it's longer than mine. I'm twenty eight, which is very average. A lot of guys shoot twenty eights. A lot of guys shoot hand me downs, and whatever it is you shoot. 00:12:49 Speaker 5: You shot a twenty eight for very long. 00:12:51 Speaker 1: My dad is a twenty eight, and I shot at twenty eight because I shot a hand me down. 00:12:57 Speaker 6: I shot at twenty. 00:12:58 Speaker 5: Eight for forever. 00:12:59 Speaker 1: I was literally in my thirties before they figured out I was a twenty nine, and so I've only been shooting at twenty nine for a few years now. Yeah, yeah, and always. You know, I started out with the lighter arrow, but I we shot nap spit fire one broad heads that was like a shot. 00:13:20 Speaker 6: I've shot a. 00:13:20 Speaker 1: Few rages that were similar to that same style of front deployed you know, mechanical and killed a lot of stuff with them. 00:13:28 Speaker 6: You know, but you kind of start what they call it red pill. 00:13:32 Speaker 1: You get yeah, let's go get a little extra information. 00:13:36 Speaker 6: Can't go back? 00:13:36 Speaker 5: You know what red pilled you to change into something different? 00:13:41 Speaker 1: You Oh, no, you you know you had, you had kind of I don't know how you did it. So maybe you should talk about where you dove off into and found out about heavier arrow setups because that kind of led to a. 00:13:55 Speaker 4: Great point because it was like you were like six months after me on that. I decided I wanted a heavier air set up, so I kind of did my own research into that and settled on those Eastern axises, which I think you shoot some of those now. 00:14:11 Speaker 3: Sorry, but tell us what made that decision. 00:14:14 Speaker 4: I was influenced I think by either social media or TV culture or something. 00:14:19 Speaker 3: But not what you were seeing in the field for yourself. 00:14:23 Speaker 5: Killed ATARO stuff back whenever I had a lot of eras. 00:14:27 Speaker 4: In fact, I can't really think of a time that the super light thing hurt me. Then I have a no story later that we'll talk about of recent events. 00:14:37 Speaker 5: With a light arrow. But I think I was just well, I'll tell you I shot at elk with super light arrows and rage broadheads and had a very. 00:14:51 Speaker 4: Blessed hit that I just got away with something right, and I decided, you know, I'm gonta be serious about elk hunting, like I don't need to to the woods with an air set up that's made for thin skin Texas white tail. 00:15:05 Speaker 5: You know. That was kind of where I was. 00:15:07 Speaker 4: Headed with that, and that still ended up not being heavy enough for what I wanted to do. And I learned too that the heavier my arrow was, the more stable my arrowflight was, and the better control I had with fixed blade broadheads, because I kind of, let's see, twenty eighteen is what kind of made me want to transition into something different. Tyler and I were hunting on the ground in Kansas. We rattling a buck from like three hundred yards away, and I'm shooting a four hundred and forty grand Era with front or rear deploy rage Broadhead on it, and I shoot at this deer on the ground at thirty five yards and my arrow. 00:15:50 Speaker 5: Hits a piece of switch grass. 00:15:52 Speaker 4: I mean it is not your standard deflection, but sure enough. I mean I think that broadhead probably deployed in that arrow. 00:16:00 Speaker 5: Just went to just humbling. 00:16:02 Speaker 4: And at that point in time, I was like, if we're gonna hunt deer on the ground, I need to do something different. And then I went down the rabbit hole and actually bought a branded arrow called Day six Arrows, which you assemble yourself at home, you know, kind of like what you might call like a I don't know is it is elite the word or what's the what's the word for? Like top tier type of setup, upper assline. They're expensive, premium, premium. 00:16:24 Speaker 5: That's all I'm going for there. 00:16:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, And and wanted to do if fixed blade cut on contacts broadhead became friends with the guy who owned that company and talked through a lot of stuff and ended up settling on five hundred and eighty seven grains because that's what fit my bow the best. 00:16:41 Speaker 6: And you got one twenty five heads, one twenty. 00:16:43 Speaker 4: Five heads a little bit wider with a bleeder, and I still really like that set up. I killed one deer with it and uh, actually. 00:16:57 Speaker 5: You know, still had some some headaches through it. 00:16:59 Speaker 4: But that same year, shortly after I switched to it, we went on the elk hunt, and then I kind of talked you into it because you were going you drew an eye at TAG that year, you're gonna go on Illinois big bodied white tails, and we're going back to Kansas. So I was like, hey, maybe something you should consider, you know, because you killed a really awesome buck in twenty seventeen with the light arrow of three blades set up, but you didn't get a pass through. And I was like, hey, pass throughs are it, man, because with a pass through you get better bloodshells. 00:17:31 Speaker 5: Like almost I would almost say that's like a. 00:17:33 Speaker 4: Rule is that if you have two holes, it's better than one, especially from a tree stand, because oftentimes your second hole is on the lower half of the animal, whereas your first hole may or may not be. 00:17:45 Speaker 5: So that kind of leads you into how you changed. 00:17:49 Speaker 1: So nineteen and twenty, I shoot a probably five hundred and fifty ish grain arrow. 00:17:55 Speaker 5: Because you shot a hundred green broad heads grain. 00:17:58 Speaker 1: Broad heads and the two blade two blade cut on contact with bleeders, and it was pretty similar set up to your stasic stuff. And I shot in nineteen, I shot a couple bucks. 00:18:13 Speaker 6: In twenty I. 00:18:13 Speaker 1: Shot five bucks with that setup, and I smoked everything. I mean everything I shot, I killed. But I started to find out that even though I was I was putting two holes in them, that a two blade I did not think was giving me good blood trails at all. And I think a lot of times that wound closes up and for whatever reason, you're just not getting much blood leaking out. 00:18:39 Speaker 6: So I started going. 00:18:40 Speaker 1: Back to bleeders or no, it did, yep, But I just I know I had known that even with only one hole on several of my deer with a three blade mechanical, big mechanical, I knew I was getting still better blood trails. I felt like, So I kind of wanted to go back is something like that, which I did in twenty one and still kind of shoot a similar setup to that. 00:19:04 Speaker 4: Yeah, So what was there an event for you that led you to, uh, you know, I guess get away from the trad bot set up and want to go to a wheel bow and shoot. Uh, you know, I don't use the word modern as a disc towards the traditional right. 00:19:21 Speaker 3: But you know it's one hundred percent. Yeah, a lot of technology here sitting in my last there's a lot more than well, well yeah it was a black widow. 00:19:30 Speaker 5: Yeah, nice boat. 00:19:31 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, so it still has it. It has a lot of dust on it. Sadly, every now and then my kids and I will get our get the trad bows out and go chase some rabbits around. So yeah, it is no, it's telling uh, Greg earlier that I missed tradbowl hunt because when you hike or when you leave, like you're standing and you go hiking back to camp or whatever, you would shoot. You know, these prickly pairs are awesome for target practice. You know, you'd shoot the whole way back to camp and walk around with these things. Nobody ever does that. You know, you gotta get back to camp. But I'll say this, like what got me to switch from recurve to a modern bow is that I was sick of what letting stuff walk by it like twenty five yards because like my max range was twenty and you know, I'd spend a couple thousand bucks to go hunt Montana and see three bulls and they were all at thirty yards. I'd be like, man, if I had my compound, I'm. 00:20:24 Speaker 4: Pretty sure I would have shot, you know, or your point on shooter or your gap shooter. 00:20:29 Speaker 3: Instinctive instinctive, Yeah for sure. Yeah. So yeah, So I missed three bowls in Montana over the course of two years, and man, it hurts, Yeah, it hurts. So anyway, that switched over. So at that point I hadn't killed anything with the boats, I didn't really have a reason to go lighter heavy. But the reason I did make the decision to go heavier is because when I first started guiding Elk in ninety nine, everybody shot a heavy aluminum arrow with like a muzzy or z a wiki on the front end of it, because that's all there was, you know, there just wasn't a carbon arrow, just wasn't even a thing yet. But it was soon after that, like one two three, when all of a sudden guys came in with bows that like we were used to watching the arrow hit the target, and now they would shoot and you'd be like, where'd the arrow go? And they would just be sticking to the target. I mean, it was literally that drastic of change, and of course we all thought, oh, it's gonna be great, and then within a couple of years everybody's like, this is not great because a lot of elk would have, you know, arrows going in this far and then you just watch them walk away and you would just know that there's no reason to even go look, you know. So that's why I ended up going heavy. So I guess the first rig that I shot at some elk and killed an elk with was a Easton full metal jacket with a muzzy stinger double bevel but single blade, no bleeds on it, and smoked her like a medium sized cow, quartered away right through both shoulders, like amazing penetration was busting ribs and bones going all the way out. And found the arrow and thought, oh, man, like in an hour, we're going to go cut the sel cup. Twenty four hours later, long story short, I find her and she had done like over a mile loop and I found her just because I happened to be on a high point. I looked down and she had fallen into this beaver pond and I find her. It was cool because she was super cold because she was in this like thirty five degree water all night, and so the neck crops everything was perfect in there, so I was able to see that, Yeah, I got this amazing penetration, but the lungs just had this, like you were talking about this one single flat hole through there, and I think that because there wasn't another access to that cut, it just it sealed up and she was able. She died, but she went a long ways and had not gotten lucky, I wouldn't have found her. And so at that point I think I switched over to slick tricks kill to one elk, but also hit two elk that didn't recover with those. And at that point is when I started getting more into like researching it. Reading at Ashby's stuff. 00:23:11 Speaker 4: You feel like that was broadhead failure or just the nature of a four blade broadhead manor other. 00:23:20 Speaker 3: Honestly, it might have been the foc thing more than anything, because the arrow was heavy. It was like a five twenty five, five thirty five you know set up yea. But I mean again, it's just those shots where you wouldn't change anything about it, except you go, man, why didn't I get the penetration that I thought that I should have gotten? 00:23:39 Speaker 5: You know, those those Eastern full metal jackets. 00:23:43 Speaker 4: They're great eras and I know a lot of people kill a lot of stuff with them, but people struggled to get good FOC and not goes crazy heavy because they have such high GPI. 00:23:52 Speaker 5: They're great. 00:23:53 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. And at that time I didn't really even think about FOC. I was like, oh my total arrow aits five thirty five off to the woods. And so that's something that has changed now in my setup. 00:24:05 Speaker 5: Gotcha? 00:24:05 Speaker 4: Okay, so let's transition to our current setup and tell me where you landed, why you're there, and if you you intend to do any tinkering from here. 00:24:14 Speaker 3: On sure, And I will say, man, you know, my experiences are limited. I'm still like around a dozen animals shot with the bow, so it's a very small sample size of data. 00:24:26 Speaker 4: So to help you that though you got it out for how many years a dozen? A dozen years of gotting ilk and how many archery out did you see shot? 00:24:36 Speaker 3: Oh? Man, me exactly yeah sure, top of my head, I don't know forty. 00:24:41 Speaker 4: So you drawn from a decent sample size even though you've only you said a dozen, right, yeah, yeah for sure. 00:24:50 Speaker 3: So yeah, so I went to a uh, I just started thinking about just the whole because I was seeing it amongst friends and stuff people haven't not just not getting enough penetration, but overall broadhead and aerial failure where something in this area was breaking and maybe causing you know, the you know, not to not get the penetration and not kill the animal. And so I started really thinking about I need this whole thing to be extremely like you started thinking about you're shooting at at you know, almost hundred feet a second into a big animal, lots of bones and stuff like, it needs to be pretty robust, right if in case something goes wrong. So yeah, I started talking to Seth Postin over at serious archery, Troy Fowler of the Ranch Ferry, and at first I ended up really heavy. I was at a six hundred and fifty grain setup and it was that I think that era was a three hundred spine. I was running two hundred grain tough heads and. 00:25:55 Speaker 5: At that light you're back instinctive shooting again because you can only shoot twenty. 00:25:59 Speaker 3: Yards totally, you know, I never within my effective range that I'm gonna shoot at animals. I never felt like that the pin gap or too much arc was ever a thing with that air. 00:26:11 Speaker 4: Not to get you off track too far, but were you shooting a sliding SOT at that point in time. 00:26:17 Speaker 5: Or are you shooting fixed sliding slotting? 00:26:19 Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, so you didn't have to worry about too much gap on three or five pins because you could slide like you two up. 00:26:25 Speaker 3: And h exactly. And again, I just you know, you know, for an ELK, I'm usually gonna cap it at fifty and I usually don't end up just getting shots like that. And I realized hunting white tails over the last five years that like, I've yet to have an opportunity at a shot over twenty yards, Like it just hasn't happened, right, So at that point it just doesn't matter. 00:26:49 Speaker 4: So what terrainy usually hunt whitetails in what area of the country? 00:26:53 Speaker 3: Central Wisconsin, very hilly country. I think for white cell country it's like two hundred fetvation gain and loss, you know, from the tops of the hills to the bottom of the hills. Timber, yeah, all timber, very little field edgeshunt hunting all big timber. 00:27:11 Speaker 5: And so you actually so you had that super heavy Yeah, so. 00:27:14 Speaker 3: With that super head, and I had good luck with that super heavy. I killed a my first white tailt buck with it, and I killed two elk, one with a great shot behind the shoulder and one with a shot that went literally up his rear end, and and it and it killed him. 00:27:33 Speaker 5: How far did you go into it? 00:27:35 Speaker 3: Basically the whole chaft, like you could just see the sticking out. Probably you know, this is something that I'm not gonna do anymore because every animal that killed the boat from here on out I will net cropsy. And so I could answer that question, but I don't think I actually made it. I don't think this is this wouldn't didn't take me to the diaphragm. I think I cut a major artery, like right along the spine and he bled out. 00:28:00 Speaker 5: I'd tell my first op was too you know, poor shot but extremely lethal. 00:28:05 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that femoral artery does it to them. 00:28:09 Speaker 5: Mine order, which was you know, right along the inside of the spine up near the tender ones, which. 00:28:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's the same one. 00:28:16 Speaker 5: I think, Yeah it goes in the same spot. 00:28:18 Speaker 4: But yeah, so a little while to die, but yeah I did. That's the six fifty. And then you wanted to get away from that line. 00:28:26 Speaker 3: Well, I didn't really want to get away from it. It was working just fine, but uh, I get in my line of work, I get to talk to a lot of people about this this stuff. Nfella said, Hey, I think I can get you an arrow that might fly a little bit better. I think it's going to give you the same penetration, et cetera, et cetera, it's gonna be a little bit lighter. And so my buddy Kyle Davidson from Davids and Custom Aerials built me this one, which is an eastern axis, and uh it's a three hundred spine. Originally he was only running a hundred grain heads with I think like a seventy five grain insert behind here came out to be about five hundred grains, which I do like because I decided to go prong horn hunting last year and it was nicer to have a little bit zippier arrow, a little bit flatter. Shooting still didn't help me. It wasn't fast enough. I still need something faster for those prong horns. But anyway, so this arrow, I've shot at a couple of arrows at prong horn and one at a white tail, and unfortunately I haven't killed anything with it. Yet, so hopefully that'll change maybe yeah, maybe yeah yeah. And so you have two arrow setups in your hand rather yeah, So this is the five hundred grains setup I was just telling you about. And then this is a six hundred grain setup, a little bit stiffer spine because there's more weight up front, so you got to have a stiffer spine to maintain good arrow flight. And this one comes in at six hundred grains. And it's my elk arrow. Yeah, killed anything with that, Yes, I killed a bull elk last year with it. 00:29:56 Speaker 5: Yeah, I got you and it was you were happy with the way it turned out, Yeah, it was great. 00:30:01 Speaker 3: It went through rib on the entry, rib on the exit, and then it stuck right here in that knuckle where the you know, lower half the front leg meets the scapueld. And that's a single bevel, single bevel. 00:30:17 Speaker 5: Have you noticed a greater performance with single levels as opposed to a you know what what people would just normally associate a broad hiding, but it's called a double bevel. 00:30:28 Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, yes, I have, you know, I don't know, I've watched I don't know five or six animals now die shooting single bevels. But mostly what I see compared to just the double bevel is that upon entry instead of just having that same you know, one slit across like you were talking about earlier, because as soon as it hits it starts to rotate those single bevels one push, you got force pushing one way and force pushing the other way. So it's actually rotating as it goes through the medium that it goes in to. And so in the hide you just see sometimes what looks like an L or an S cut And I'm just imagining that as it keeps going, it's doing that as it goes through the tissues, you know, So it's causing i think, more damage than if it just went straight through. If you look at the. 00:31:17 Speaker 4: Surface area, because there's rotation, there's a greater It would be like if you took a twizzler and unrolled it, it would be longer, which would mean more area of cut. 00:31:27 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, So I imagine it's doing more cutting. I know that when I shoot my targets at home, foam targets, the ones that have these bleeders on them don't rotate nearly as far because as you pull them out backwards, you know, you're feeling the arrow rotate out of the target. The ones with the bleeders barely rotate, where the ones without bleeders means like a you know, more than half a rotation, more than one hundred and eighty degrees. 00:31:53 Speaker 5: Yeah, and so this one doesn't have bleeders. It's kind of more like in what like the tough head style or whatever. 00:31:59 Speaker 3: I mean, all of them. I think now you can get with or without. 00:32:02 Speaker 5: And you've done that because you're trying to really amp. 00:32:06 Speaker 3: Up the rotation. Yeah, I don't want anything hindering the rotation of that broadhead because I think that's like the main thing about a single bevel, because otherwise, like what's the big deal? Yeah right, they say single bevels. I've gone through some scapulas on elk and deer now with a single bevel and there's a big long crack, you know. Sometimes the crack is eight nine inches long and the broadhead in the air have gone through it. 00:32:32 Speaker 5: Yeah, they said that supposedly they will split bone better. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if I have enough sample size to really say that I believe it or not. You know, I know there's a lot of people that like them, and I'm glad you're shooting them. 00:32:48 Speaker 4: That means that we have we can discuss it because I'm not shooting them, right and so like we kind of have enough in different places. But Tyler, why don't you tell me how you went from that really heavy set up that you had and wanted to go tell me? 00:33:05 Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, this is what I've got right here is what I kind of came up with with a buddy of mine named Isaac Smith no relation. 00:33:15 Speaker 5: Right somewhere somewhere down the line. Yeah. 00:33:18 Speaker 1: Anyway, he he has an arrow company and we end up shooting his arrows and he talks me through essentially this setup, which is not available anymore. It's called vector ZMR became method at one point, but ZMR was their lighter offering. The HMR was the heavier, and the ZMR for me, the twenty nine et straw one twenty five head ended up at four ninety seven, so right at five hundred is what I always said, so pretty close there. 00:33:51 Speaker 5: And then. 00:33:54 Speaker 1: This is actually a pretty well made to deployed mechanical and it's really big, as you can probably see. 00:34:04 Speaker 6: I think it's a two and a half inch. 00:34:05 Speaker 3: Cut or something. 00:34:06 Speaker 5: Like that, what brand is that? 00:34:08 Speaker 6: What brand? 00:34:09 Speaker 1: It's a grim reaper and got a pretty durable head right here, fairly sharp. 00:34:16 Speaker 6: Actually I stuck one of these in my hand on accident one time. 00:34:19 Speaker 5: Uh done, really a couple of different broad hands I have. 00:34:21 Speaker 1: Actually, when I shot the fixed blades they're in nineteen and twenty, I couldn't get used to it and I kept slicing my fingers pulling them out of the quiver. But anyway, this is what I got's a big wound channel. I like three the three blade cut because it leaves these these flaps that you know, allow blood to go in and out really. 00:34:44 Speaker 6: Really easily. So anyway, in. 00:34:46 Speaker 1: This it's a it's a it's a pretty durable broadhead overall, but it is a mechanical so there's failure points on it that you don't see with a fixed blade, and so I really try to stay away from the shoulder. And then so I shot this setup in twenty twenty one, and I was really glad I wanted something. I wanted less pen gap because we hant a lot of open country wide tails and I feel like that that it's hard to range in that country because especially in spot stalk situation, you can hit grass real bad. You can't get too high up or they're going to see you, know, so you got to range through grass. It's really hard to get an accurate range. And you do your best, and sometimes you hit grass in front of them three or four yards. And if you're shooting, if you're shooting forty five yards and he's actually forty nine, that's a pretty big difference, you know, at that distance. 00:35:39 Speaker 6: I mean there's a lot of drop that can happen there. 00:35:41 Speaker 4: If I can interject there, it's worth doing the research with your own errows and seeing how much your drop is since your target at forty five, shoot it at forty three, or vice versa. 00:35:51 Speaker 5: You know, sit your target forty three, you'll get what I'm trying to say. 00:35:54 Speaker 4: Yeah, set it forty five, put your pen on forty three, and see what happens if you miss the yard. Yeah, and see how much room for error you have there. Then we have a good idea. And it matters at different distances too. So like if you do it twenty versus twenty four, it's it's nothing, but the difference in fifty four and fifty six is a lot for most people. 00:36:12 Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure. 00:36:14 Speaker 1: So that's that's why I wanted a little bit lighter, flatter shooting set up. I wanted to get closer to my old arrow but still have a little more weight. It's got a better foc than my old arrow as well, which I don't know exactly what it is anymore. I used to know, but know, I know we wanted to be above thirteen. That was like our minimal number, and we got there. It's a four fletch arrow as well. 00:36:38 Speaker 5: Those flet things are a little smaller. How are you getting away with that? And what's the deal on that? 00:36:44 Speaker 6: How am I getting away with it? 00:36:45 Speaker 3: Well? 00:36:46 Speaker 6: The foc kind of helps a lot of that. 00:36:48 Speaker 5: I mean, you do you ever shoot fixed plates? Now? 00:36:52 Speaker 6: No? And so the reason I shoot a mechanical a big reason. 00:36:55 Speaker 2: I like. 00:36:55 Speaker 6: I like the cut that a mechanical gives me. And I don't hunt ELK. 00:37:01 Speaker 1: I mean I've been, I've elk hunted twice. I would love to as a Texas resident, those tags are hard to come by, so I don't hunt ELK. If I hunted Elk, I would I would definitely do a different setup. I believe I did shoot a Neil guy with this setup, and it worked really well. So you know, maybe probably a little smaller than most elk, but still a big animal. 00:37:25 Speaker 3: But I have known to be very very tough. 00:37:27 Speaker 6: Yeah, they for sure I do too. 00:37:30 Speaker 1: So anyway, an another reason that I shoot a mechanical instead of fixed blades because during the nineteen to twenty I was I didn't shoot any deer, I don't think over thirty that year with that fixed blade setup because I couldn't. I couldn't group my arrows. It seemed like they're really inconsistent. And I think the reason, I think a big reason for me. And I don't know this, but I feel like I have a lot of torque in my grip because I have I don't have opposable thumbs like most people. I actually cannot bend either one of my thumb at this joint right here and it and it puts a lot of pressure on my shelf whenever, because my thumb won't just bend over and go down. So this knuckle puts a lot of pressure on my shelf whenever I'm shooting, and I just can't. I just can't shoot a fixed blade very well. I never have been able to. They just don't group well. I can see them moving because of torque. 00:38:22 Speaker 3: So the mechanicals around bear shaft tuning and all that. 00:38:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, it didn't work. I mean I've done. I do every time I take a new bow in, I shoot a bear shaft and try to get it to go through paper well, and usually the tech that's helping me is like, yeah, it's good enough, you know. 00:38:39 Speaker 6: So I do struggle with it, for sure. 00:38:42 Speaker 1: But I shot this out of this this a little slower bow this year, and then in twenty twenty two year we did buck Truck. I shot at three hundred and fifty ivyo bow and I didn't shoot it that well. I shot it pretty good, but I didn't shoot it as well as I shot this bow, which is like a three thirty three or something like that. That's a longer eighty, which you know, gives me a lot of forgiveness. 00:39:04 Speaker 6: I believe in stability, you know. So yeah, that's what I that's what I've come to. What about you, man. 00:39:10 Speaker 4: You and I are kind of in similar places. It might because we spend a lot of time together which to think a lot. But I have a little bit of differences on things, and I'm more of a tinkerer than you. 00:39:19 Speaker 5: Are you. Yeah, at no fault because you kill stuff. 00:39:25 Speaker 4: You would like for someone to be like, hey, this works that way, you don't have to think about it, and you kill things well. 00:39:30 Speaker 1: And I would say that every deer that I've shot everything, and I don't know if I've hit one in well, I hit one in the shoulder. Every year I've shot behind the shoulder with this setup, I've had two holes in pretty much. 00:39:41 Speaker 6: And it's it's. 00:39:42 Speaker 1: Not always that the arrow comes out through the side completely, but there's two holes in him. And I mean it's worked really well. Even on big, big deer. It goes all the way through with a five with that big broadhead. But a five hundred grand arrow at out of a twenty nine at stroke. 00:39:57 Speaker 4: You have a kind of an infamous shot at fifty yards at one of the biggest public land light tails I've ever seen. Shot that arrow set up at fifty yards and went shot in the heart and had you had a heart around the whole all the way around, Yeah, like just dead sinner punch. 00:40:14 Speaker 6: Yeah, there was margin around all the kind and it's. 00:40:18 Speaker 4: Ted Nugent's mystical flight of the arrow and the footage for sure, it's awesome. 00:40:21 Speaker 6: It's cool. 00:40:22 Speaker 5: So a little bit different path still for me. 00:40:26 Speaker 4: Though, whenever I went down the heavy arrow road, my ears are five hundred and eighty seven grains. I think they are like twelve percent foc just because you end up with that sometimes with you know, GPI situation, it's kind of like we were talking about with those full metal jackets. 00:40:39 Speaker 3: It's hard to find an arrow that's spine heavy enough to get them to those weights because if you don't know. 00:40:45 Speaker 4: Spine is about the deflection of an arrow or how much it bends under certain amounts of weight, right, and so like a three hundred bends less than a four to fifty, yeah, and then what that's a two. 00:40:59 Speaker 5: Hundred right there? Right, So yeah, I don't remember how much the weight is. 00:41:03 Speaker 4: But essentially you would hang an arrow on two points of contact, put a weight in the middle, and how much it flexes is the spine, and essentially you have to add more material to make something stiffer. 00:41:15 Speaker 5: That's kind of that's how things go. Oftentimes different materials will give you different results than that. But for me five eighty seven, I loved. 00:41:23 Speaker 4: The penetration I would get if I hit the animals where I wanted to, but at five eighty seven I was to where my pen gap was big to say the least. 00:41:33 Speaker 5: You know, I'm not a. 00:41:35 Speaker 4: Super big guy for twenty eight inch drawlingk shooting seventy pounds out of most because that's what most bows go. 00:41:40 Speaker 5: To and at that weight. 00:41:45 Speaker 4: I shot a deer high on the shoulder in December and Kansas, and it really upset me because I just thought I was gonna kill him, and I probably had the yardage off by like one inch and he might have dropped a little bit whatever it may have been. But essentially, you know, there's a lot of difference in thirty and thirty two yards when you have that heavy you have an arrow, and so I wanted to maybe scale it down a little bit. I don't know if I need This is actually one of the Tyler's idea is I don't know if I need to bury my arrow six inches in the clay on the other side of the deer. 00:42:20 Speaker 5: I kind of just want to get through. 00:42:22 Speaker 4: And so long story short, for me, somewhere between five hundred and five thirty five is where I really like to be on an arrow, and I usually like that five twenty five. That's five thirty five, but I'll experiment more down in. 00:42:34 Speaker 5: Those lower weights. So the arrow setup that I have. 00:42:38 Speaker 4: Right now is a five hundred I think it's five oh four. It's a four fletch. This is an exodus arrow. And I also I carry two different broad heads in my quiver usually I always have because. 00:42:52 Speaker 5: I like fixed blades as well. 00:42:54 Speaker 4: But I just can't argue with the results of a big three blade mechanical. 00:42:58 Speaker 5: I mean, they kill things very well if you hit them where you should. 00:43:03 Speaker 4: Yeah, and sometimes even if you hit them where you don't. And that's one of the things I like about a big mechanical is it gives you a large margin for error, right, I mean, as you were saying, this is practically like putting a line through something, you know, like it's very large and you're making a big hole. And so if you were going to barely hit the lungs, if you hit the lungs with this, you essentially are getting deeper into them. 00:43:53 Speaker 5: And there's a particular deer. 00:43:55 Speaker 4: That made me be this way about mechanics because I used to want to I wanted fixed blades to be the answer for me. 00:44:03 Speaker 6: Yeah, there was a few years where we didn't see that's right. 00:44:08 Speaker 4: Yeah, And this actually is a different fixed blade than I thought was in here. But it doesn't really matter as long as you're you're tuned well and you're not torking your bow. But I shot a ironwheel wide with bleeders vented through a Kansas deer at like fourteen yards and upon nicropsy had double lung to the deer, the deer was still alive four hours later and. 00:44:32 Speaker 5: Had to be finished off. He was on his feet not four hours later. It wasn't like he was like laid over, you know, like it was like a terrible few hours sitting here watching his deer on the planes walk around. 00:44:45 Speaker 4: And so it was at that point I was like, man, I just I don't know if fixed blade is the answer. So now I carry both in my quiver. This is a three blade fixed There's a lot of broadheads that are that are this style like that to this broad heads. 00:45:01 Speaker 5: This is a method broadhead that's. 00:45:02 Speaker 4: No longer in production, but I really like them, and in certain situations I'll still shoot this. 00:45:07 Speaker 5: A lot of times. 00:45:08 Speaker 4: When I'm hunting pigs, I like to shoot this. If I'm hunting heavy cover, I like to shoot a fixed blade broadhead because of like that deflection thing I talked about before on that Kansas buck, I feel like you're gonna get to push through some of that stuff. Now, I would never be a proponent for intentionally shooting through a mess, right like That's that's probably to each his own, but in my opinion, that's uh, inducing undo variables that you could just be patient. 00:45:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, only there's there's no it's been proving very well with rifles. There's no such thing as a brush but rifle. And I think the same goes for as. 00:45:44 Speaker 4: Yeah, in fact, you're you're talking a factor of ten slower. So uh, it's not gonna it's gonna actually probably be worse. 00:45:50 Speaker 6: Right, But a lot of situation you don't always see every tweed. 00:45:53 Speaker 4: I guarantee you, especially the Brier country we hunt. You know, that stuff's hard to see. So that's kind of. 00:45:57 Speaker 5: Where I have ended up. 00:45:59 Speaker 4: You know, these these here, in particular, are five hundred grains. 00:46:02 Speaker 5: I kind of would like to be a little heavier than that, But I'm shooting these really good. And I think that. 00:46:09 Speaker 4: Shooting something good is more important than hitting the number, because numbers are arbitrary. If the deer or the hog or the axis or the nil guy dies. That's the that's the end goal, and you want it to be quick, efficient and clean, right, And so if your goal like, for instance, you know, I went down that path at one five f all close to six hundred grains, Well, if I'm hitting things high on the shoulder because my rangers are a little loft or something like that, well that's not actually achieving the goal of being an efficient bow hunter. And so that's why I've kind of landed in this spot. 00:46:46 Speaker 1: And it's kind of a it's like I don't expect to always just have the same setup, you know. I think there's always there's something about bow hunters in general that it's like a kind of a constant want to tweak and get better at those things. And so I mean, in a few years we're all probably gonna be shooting it something a little different. 00:47:07 Speaker 4: Oh side trip for me this year, I went on a really great l hunt, but while I was there, I fell on a rock and messed my sight up. So kind of like you referred to earlier in my line of work, I have a couple of bows around, so I was like. 00:47:23 Speaker 5: Oh, I killed deer, smoked them for a few years with you know, a really light arrow set up. I have a turkey set up at home, four hundred and sixteen grains. I shoot really really well. I'm gonna see how I like that. 00:47:39 Speaker 4: And took that ara that bow on a road trip and had some pretty terrible results. I shot a deer in the soft stuff double lung, didn't get a pass through, and I shot it with a two blade mechanical and that doer. 00:48:01 Speaker 5: Was a live eighteen hours later. 00:48:03 Speaker 4: I had to shoot a few more times to get it to expose to four hundred and sixteen grains. And so so now you're back at five hundred. 00:48:12 Speaker 3: Now I'm back up. I kind of. 00:48:14 Speaker 4: I actually had some conclusion as to like, okay, that's that's not really now. It was great because my I practically didn't need a thirty yard pin, you know, because if I had a twenty of forty sit on my slider, because thirty was just twenty just a touch high. 00:48:30 Speaker 5: You know. 00:48:31 Speaker 4: However, that's, in my opinion, isn't the most effective thing for me in the white tail woulds. So you're honest, if you were gonna, I guess you're you're in the middle of an experiment. 00:48:42 Speaker 5: With the no bleeders. 00:48:44 Speaker 4: Do you have anything else that you're interested in playing around with that you might strap on before next year's season? 00:48:50 Speaker 3: Hmmm, No, I don't think so. I don't necessarily. I don't really want to be messed around too much. I'd like to land somewhere and be confident with it and really just expand my you know, experiences in my data set, because I mean, that's the you know, one thing that stuck out with with your story is that you had one real bad experience with that single bevel and it made you immediately switch. 00:49:14 Speaker 4: I didn't actually tell that on here. We were talking about this the other day, right, So I shot a it. 00:49:20 Speaker 3: Did just you did say that that was a no, that was. 00:49:22 Speaker 5: A single that was a two blade mechanical. Oh, you and I were discussed the other day, which I should probably go ahead and stay on here. One of the reasons that I don't shoot single bevels anymore is because of a single experience. 00:49:33 Speaker 4: I shot a hog through both front shoulders with a single bevel, and UH had broadhead failure with that single bebel. It was a Samurai which is made by Grizzly Stick, I believe, and now I know they make great products, but in that instance, I uh did what we would call shishkobob on the on the hog. I got to pass through, but it didn't go all the way through. So the hog ran off with my arrow. Ara breaks pretty quickly because the shoulders are going back and forth, and I recover the arrow, but I don't recover the haul. Okay, blood trail, but not really what you'd want for an animal that you just go right through the bottles on and the broadhead had broken halfway down, like right at the tip of the ferrel, and so I don't know at what point in time, you know, at what point within the animal's body cavity that happened. So I quickly moved to something else. I don't I'm not saying there's right or wrong on it. 00:50:29 Speaker 3: But you had this story about the iron wheel wide that didn't. 00:50:33 Speaker 5: That was that was a that was a double bevel. 00:50:35 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, but that caused you to go from that style of heavy you know, whether it was a double bebble or single bevel, but from that, you know, single blade back over to mechanicals. 00:50:49 Speaker 4: Well, I think that I'm not fully back over to mechanicals, but I'll have both of my quiver, and in fact, in that situation because I was he was bit underneath the cedar. 00:50:59 Speaker 5: Tree and I didn't. 00:51:01 Speaker 4: It was a very fast shot because I saw the year he was alert to us, and I already have my bow drawn. Is you know, kind of peek over a rim kind of thing, And since it was so unknown, I might still go for a fixed blade. 00:51:15 Speaker 5: But because the results. 00:51:17 Speaker 4: Of that, I decided that, hey, if I'm going to double along something, I wanted to die quickly. 00:51:22 Speaker 3: You know. 00:51:23 Speaker 5: That's why I at least shoot a lot of mechanicals. 00:51:27 Speaker 4: And man, when you crawl around on the ground and you don't go to the boat shop very often. 00:51:32 Speaker 5: Tyler and I both went to bow shop the other day and both of our bows were out by more than a half inch speck. 00:51:38 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's because pretty hard on equipment, you know. And that's not to say that you should be irresponsible and shoot things that don't work, but it is. It is something that I think everybody probably goes through a deer season and they may or may not have time to go to the bow shops. Little forgiveness with with the mechanical there. So as far as like things that I would like to mess around with. I'd like to shoot a really wide three blade fixed. I don't know who makes the widest three bay blade fixed. 00:52:11 Speaker 3: But Mega meat it kind of well, that's that's a mechanical Oh good, So I want like a wide three bay blade fitch. 00:52:18 Speaker 6: So I've heard the Mega meats really really good. 00:52:20 Speaker 4: My friend Mark Kenyon choose those, I'll think exclusively these days. 00:52:24 Speaker 3: He quit though, yeah, because he hit the shoulder last year and it didn't go through. 00:52:29 Speaker 5: Oh there you go. 00:52:31 Speaker 3: You know one thing that I am messing around with, I'm gonna continue to mess around with. I had great success so far. I'm gonna continue doing is purposely shooting deer in the shoulder with this setup and hopefully continue to have the success that I've had. 00:52:45 Speaker 5: Got you and you feel like. 00:52:49 Speaker 4: They're as far as anatomically, there's a reason to be up in the shoulder. 00:52:55 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, because I feel like that's the dead center of the vital Do you mean. 00:53:01 Speaker 5: When you say in the shoulder, do you mean in the triangle? Is that what you mean by that. 00:53:06 Speaker 3: Like the vital of the triangle? 00:53:08 Speaker 5: Yeah, So, like I don't know the name of the bones, right, but us is. 00:53:12 Speaker 3: The one that comes without us, Yeah, skepatically. 00:53:15 Speaker 5: And then an imaginary line would come back down to the bottom of the Yeah, totally. And that's the that's the golden triangle out there. Yeah. 00:53:21 Speaker 3: Yeah. So I like to be instead of going up the leg and kind of back on that crease, I just go up the leg and go dead center, and I don't mind it be if I'm three or four inches forward to that. 00:53:32 Speaker 5: Great, Yeah, Tyler, any experiments for you. 00:53:36 Speaker 1: I have been experimenting with my form because I just want I want to make the best shots possible. 00:53:44 Speaker 6: And I want to be very consistent. 00:53:46 Speaker 1: So like, I like my setup a lot, and I think that like relaxing my left shoulder has been really tough for me because I shot a twenty eight. 00:53:58 Speaker 6: Inch bow for so long. 00:53:59 Speaker 1: I was real boxed up, you know, and I've been so I've been working on relaxing that shoulder. 00:54:05 Speaker 6: My peep actually moved up, I believe is up one way or the other. 00:54:09 Speaker 1: It moved quite a bit on both boats once since I've been messing with it and just hoping to make the best shot. 00:54:16 Speaker 5: Yeah possibly can Yeah, Yeah, that's great, Yuess. 00:54:18 Speaker 4: Well, overall, I know that we all three are in different places, both in our archery careers and in our setups, but it's interesting to see that we all have the same end goal. We want our animals to die quickly and with as little pain as possible and honestly so that we can recover them faster and feel good about what we're doing. Right, So I think it's okay. One of the things that we see in this world is a lack of grace. We see a lot of people who are polarized and think, no, my way is better, No, this way is better. You're dumb for doing that. And I just don't think that that's where we need to be as hunters, or where we need to be as people who enjoy the same. 00:54:56 Speaker 5: Activities right the same pursuits. 00:54:58 Speaker 4: And so I'm or do my best to learn from you and from what you have experienced and see if instead of having to go through all that myself and same for you, Tyler, it would be great to be able to bounce more of these ideas off of one another. 00:55:12 Speaker 5: So if you have enjoyed this video. 00:55:14 Speaker 4: This discussion that we've had here, we'd also really appreciate for you to comments. We'd love to hear about your archery journey, maybe some of what your setups are and what you really like about it, or maybe what you might want to experiment with. If you have any other questions put in the comments, we'd love to address that and have an open discourse about those things. And guys, I think it's time we get some sleep so we can go home actually here tomorrow. 00:55:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right,

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