00:00:00 Speaker 1: I'm Casey and I'm Tyler, and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening, y'all? Guess what? It's the springtime, and it's a lot more spring in some places than his others, our buddy friend pal Ohi and himself, Michael be Stole. What is your middle name? Tristan Tristan, Michael Tristan st Michael t Stole, Michael t Style was close. Um has been down in Florida chasing the Osciola birds around. I'm gonna talk all about that here in a second, but as you know, the Element Podcast has brought to you by First Light. Michael, first question, bring it. How did the First Light specter work for turkey hunting in Florida? Pretty good. It's pretty green, and in Florida, I feel like it's always super green, so I seem to blend in pretty well. It worked. I'm not just saying this right, but that pattern works in a lot of places. That's weird. And now I'm saying this because I did not think that it would be that good of a pattern when it first came out. When it first came out, I thought it's a little dark, but it actually isn't as dark in some of the lighter places that we hunt as I thought it would be. And and but it still blends in and dark landscapes like cedars, which is also a place we hunt a lot of places with eastern red cedars, and the color that cedar kind of comes out with the pal metas too. It's about the same shade of green. So it works pretty good. And what I've noticed about swamp country like that is where you were at is a lot like where I used to live on Texas Coast, real similar real environment. Yeah, palmetas and there's a lot of that like um tan brown down there too, like the dead pal medas and other stuff, you know, And I I figured it worked pretty good. Oh yeah, yeah. So Michael, we're gonna ask you some stuff about this, but I want you to first tell the people your general thoughts about Osiola's and how hunting them compared to what you imagined it would. I knew it was gonna be tough going down there, but I don't think I truly understood how much pressure there would be. I mean, I talked to a game warden on the third day of the South Zone season and he said that there was like three hundred people on the piece of public that I was on, and I mean it's a pretty good sized piece of public. But you are fighting over birds Like you would hear a gobble and there would be people riding electric bikes. You'd see dudes running. I mean it's crazy. You saw a lot of people, Oh, people at every single pull off, Like so dudes are are striking a gobble and and there's no running to it to try to be the first one there. Yeah, there's not a lot of gobbles to begin with. Like the birds compared to like an Ohio bird, like an Eastern. I feel like everybody makes this big deal about Easterns and how they're the hardest bird to hunt. It's I mean, it's not even close. It's really Easterns. Will you have got I don't know, an hour and a half, two hours most time, and Ostiola country it's like the sun's up, they're not making noise. Is that because you're hunting public clan? It could be, for sure, But the game warden that I talked to was basically like, dude, calling just doesn't work here, Like you have to be you have to be well, I'm sure that would work. But if you rode an electric bike, you get up to one that was like full streat out in the field and you just yeah, you just popped him like you're running and maybe not a field, he's just in the pal meadows and you just like rolling down a lane real fast and you just straight up like the guys on the horses in the West. Yeah. Oh, that's a tactic people use, for sure. I heard multiple stories about that, but it wasn't in a field. It was literally on the side of the road. So I'm not sure how legal that is. But but you didn't do that. No, Yeah, you know why because they're electric boh yeah. So um, overall, what you think that public land as yella is an approachable thing for most people? And is it something you'd want to like, well, not that you'd want to do, because I know you're like crazy, but like something that you feel is a good use of time. Uh, definitely not. I do have a little bit of a vendetta against them, understand. I want to want to do it, But at the same time, it's like, if you're going to try to go do the non permitted public hunt, you need like two weeks like everybody I talked to you need more than a week to be able to like you can get lucky. But but when the time I left, the season had been open for over a week and there were I think twenty three birds that were killed on forty thousand acres. That seems low, Yeah, just a little bit. And it's because there's dudes at every single stop. So yeah, it's I wouldn't do that. If you're gonna try to go do the public game, definitely try to pull one of the tags from a permitted hunt. How much like sneaking around just trying to see some birds and make moves on them? Did you do a lot? A lot? Once the game warden was basically like, you can't be trying to call to these birds because they just get up out of there. I was basically like, I'm gonna hunt them, pretty similar to like deer, which is just like find the hot sign and then set up on it and you know, maybe do some clucking and perrn. But other than that, in nothing like I'm not calling or anything like that. So it's just trying to get on hot sign and do it. Do the thing the thing you did? You did you when you heard gobbles in the morning. Is that you just set up there the next day or how did you What was the sign that you were on? The sign I was trying to find was mostly feeding type signs, scratching way back in there. Like I went to a place one day that was like two miles back in and there was a lot of sign there. So the next morning I go in, set up, got the decoys out and everything. I'm feeling real good, and here a bunch of gobbles, the most gobbles I heard of any morning, probably like three or four birds, which isn't that much, but for what I was going through, it was a ton of gobbles, and I was fired up. But there's a different piece of public that you can't hunt and you can't access this WMA from. But I think somebody did and shot the birds or shot a bird. You heard a shot? How about that? Yeah? So that was on the coffin. Yeah, that's not fun. Do you think that there's a good number of birds that are quiet, like just don't they fly off the roost and everything and don't make any noise? I think so. I think there's also something to do with how much vegetation they have down there. Like I was thinking about this a lot. It's like, are they super quiet or can I just not hear the amount of land like I'm used to hearing. Well, I know that's the case because I'm used to getting up on a high point and calling down into multiple valleys, and there's none of that. But there's also like the most vegetation I've ever seen in my life down there, And I wonder how much that absorbed sounds. Talk a little bit about your like normal turkey hunting strategy, and then like, you know, back to what you're just saying, high point valleys, what are you saying there? I'm basically just trying to find a place where I can call to the most country and have like I say, like fresh air, like just air that isn't getting obstructed by a bunch of vegetation and stuff. Just here literally as much country as possible. And you're trying to shock gobble him, or you're trying to he and call him and get him to answer. It just depends on the type, like the time of day, which can be kind of the same thing too, I guess. But so, okay, so this isn't off the roost, you're doing that that's on the ground. I mean, I'm pretty opertunistic kind of guy, so if they're on the roost, I'll definitely be aggressive and go make a play. But that's only so much of the day. Is there a way to know that turkey is on a roost for sure? When you ask, Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think there is either, don't. I mean, the only way I would know is like, if it's early and he's not moving after exactly five minutes, then there's a chance, a pretty good chance he's still on there. I usually just like it depends on the time of day for me when I think if they're on the east or not, I haven't. I try to base it off my chicken movement. It's a pretty good idea. Yeah, really pretty similar. I haven't had a lot of experience with turkeys offerers, but it seems like they go like when they fly down, they have an idea what they're about to do, so they're pretty quiet right after they fly down. There's some new listeners that have recently discovered us for some obvious reasons, but we actually live in one of the few places in the United States of America that does not have turkeys. We're in a very small strip between what our Department of Wildlife calls Easterns and Rio Grand turkey distribution, and so we sit right in between basically a major highway system that's kind of the delineator. But to our west is the DFW Metriplex, one of the largest cities in the world. And but from there east until east of us, there's a little ways there's no there's like no turkeys. I lived here thirty years and haven't seen a turkey. Really low opportunity as far as public access goes, too, So like, yeah, there's turkeys two hours east of us, but feasibly going and hunting them is pretty toy. Yeah. Yeah, they're just they're they're public land goals. We've grown up with a lot of opportunity on that. Yeah, I'm just I'm kind of so what I'm I'm kind of laying out here is that Casey and I neither are turkey experts. When we've killed some I've killed of, you know, several, I don't know, I probably killed a dozen turkeys, you know, not like a bunch, but I've been a lot. We just have to go somewhere to do it. But we're not by any means like the guys that UH spent time calling them too much when we were young or learning that whole deal. It wasn't like a thing every spring that we could just go do in the afternoons every once in a while. I mean it was you had to make a trip, and it was like one turkey trip a year, you know, So uh something if well, I can want to do more of but uh, we are definitely dear guys pretty three and three. There's also ten pound bass in the lakes around me. Yeah, so springtime has other other implications for us, you see. So that's why we're kind of talking to Michael's he spent some time doing it. I'm not gonna say I'm an expert, no, but I enjoy turkey. You've done it. You've hunted Eastern You've hunted a different type of country than we have. You know, turkeys have you killed? I've killed three public turkeys, and then before that, I would shoot any turkey that came in during the season. Yeah, with a bow, just three public turns. Have I killed a public land turkey? I don't think I've killed a public land turkey. I don't think I have either. No, I haven't why would you, Hm, it's fun. Should kill him on private man, That's it, if I had the chance. Yeah, well that's it. That's the thing is, I'm just trying to figure out, like where you're have a turkey hunted for us in Texas? The you know, you just gotta travel so far to get public turkeys for us where we're at, So what about you you're killing turkeys. Eric's here by the way, Yep, surprised, No, I have not. Hopefully that changes though, tasty. Yeah, Eric and Michael are gonna spend some time. Actually, Michael is kind of our turkey guy this year. Um, he's gonna spent a lot of time in the Turkey Woods, including this week coming up believing here in just a little bit and then uh uh going with Eric and y'all are going to spend make a leg, big long leg of a trip down out to back to your home neck of the woods kind of stuff. I mean, there's some turkeys are gonna go down, I feel like on video this year. But it's, um, it's pretty exciting because I feel like y'all are gonna go get all brushed up on your skills and then Tyler and I get to join in May and just go shoot something. Let's go. But anyway, so we we started the whole you know deal this year with sending Michael to Florida. So how long can take you to get there? He drove sixteen hours? Sixteen hours man, how many things of gas? Uh? Three day to get out there? Three stops there, three stops back. So you didn't stop to use the bathroom or anything outside of that, just when I'm tough, man. The same thing going to Ohio, which it's a little it's a little sketchy sometimes when you're drinking celsius because those things will get to you. Yeah, yeah, I uh, I drink me out with water in the morning and it's not good for that kind of thing for sure. But um so we sent you out there, and you're pretty much going into place you've never been. Have you ever been to Florida? Period? When I was a kid, I went to Disney World. Oh, there you go. She I had a baseball tournament in Florida once too, There you go. So you've been a couple of times, but uh, definitely not a culture or an environment that you are very familiar with. No, And so there had to have been things like you said earlier, might have mentioned that the things that were a challenge for you, things that were just kind of threw you off or surprised you. And um, I guess we'll start with the fact that, like there's probably a language barrier because we sent you out there to the idea was that you would get permission to hunt turkeys. We did not want you really hanging out on public and you didn't want to, so there was no there was no want in this crew of let's go do the public land thing. Right. Uh, if we're going to be you know, driving to Florida, we're not going to be hunting public unless we have to. So with that said, we sent you out there and we said, hey, here's a little bit of cash. See if you can, you know, get permission and if people are weird about it, but you think they're close, you know, give them a couple hundred bucks whatever, See if I can work. Well, couldn't quite pull it off. I guess you actually had permission to hunt, right, But the filming thing is actually the issue in this case, right, So getting somebody to let you film on their land, it doesn't matter it's weird something, it doesn't matter if you tell people, hey, I'm not gonna get anything of you or no barns or houses or nothing, you know, but they still just don't want to do it, you know. Yep, that hurt. It definitely hurt. I would have loved to go hunt that property. It was a super nice piece of property. And the guy he really didn't even want that much money. He just, for whatever reason, was not not want me to film there. Yeah, that's kind of the whole the whole reason I'm there. Yeah, it's sad, dude. Gosh, what uh did you ever feel? Did you ever get into a situation where you're like, this is sketch man? O? What was what the first night I showed up to my Airbnb just staying in some guy's backyard and his tiny home. Yeah, but it turned out to be a nice guy and it was a nice place, good enough for me. It was a nice area. Uh, not the nicest. I definitely wouldn't say very nice. I mean it's forty dollars. Were there any turkeys there? No? They were not in the city. Were you like in a city urban not a city? No, really just kind of like a little town. Yeah, man, what else? Anything else? I know? The flies are breeding today after it. Where are you old enough to remember the bath bath salts incidents in Florida? The guy eating the other guys? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that's one of my earliest memories. How about that. That's funny. I don't remember. It's like six or something. Yeah, I was warned. Do you ever find anybody who was, you know, experimenting with the sodium chloride or whatever it? Maybe? I don't think so it's good. I try to stay away from the areas where I think that might be going down. Yeah. So what was the biggest cultural um hurdle that you had to overcome while you're down there? I think for the like permission wise, for a lot of people, like I look pretty on like I'm twenty three. I think a lot of people look at me and they're just like, no, dude, Like you're you're gonna be doing something. I grew the go out but it didn't work. It didn't work, man. They I think they just look at a young kid and they just think I'm gonna be up to some shenanigans. Yeah. But other than that, I mean, you can't really knock a lot of doors in the South, is what I really realized because spread out behind big gates and behind gates, like you got to catch them while they're at their gate. And if you're doing that, they like get real like defensive and they're like, who is this kid coming up to me? So it's like and then when you try to call with a phone number that says Columbus, Ohio, it's like, I'm not answering this, Like yeah, yeah, so isn't there a thing this might be too much of a UM secret to give out to people within There a thing you can do where you can make your number local or something like that. I think, yeah, yeah, she did. You used to get like Star sixty nine or something, right, I think it just like doesn't show where you're at or something. It was a Star sixty seven or something like that. Yeah, So, Uh, did you ever have an issue where like you were talking to somebody and you could tell that it was just the fact that you were from the north. Uh no, no, No. There was a couple of incidences where I got the the fifth degree or whatever they call it, for being a hunter and wanting to hunt on their land. But rangers should get into that. People activist A couple of New Yorkers that I didn't realize Yorkers and man, no, they got after me or they were basically just like, we have a we have a bunch of cows and they would be placed in grave danger if you shot off a gun on our property. And it's like, so do they do they not like hunters? Or do they? Are they worried about you? You're youthful rage rogue? I think I think those people did not want hunters. Yeah, I think most of them just But I mean, did they do they not like hunters? Or do they just not want you to accidentally shoot a cow? For real? I think they just didn't like hunters. I mean I came up in Camo and she was irrate when I first Yeah, so I was like, so that's something to talk about. That is something talk about. So stupid? Why do you have cows? You know what I mean? I wasn't going to get into this argument. Why good If you got cows, they're gonna die because people gonna eat them, that's right, or they're gonna eat the milk. Yeah, but those aren't theiry cows there, aren't they. I have no idea. I imagine I'm not a cow. Were they black and white or were they browns? They were brown? Yeah, if they're meat cows, more than likely. Right, I'd say, how do you think we get a dagum hamburger on her plate? Man? I don't know me with a New Yorker, you have to be like, how do you think you get that pepperoni on your pizza? I mean she made me sign like a whole thing saying that I will not go on her property and that I would have done that. You signed it? Yeah? Why because I wanted to be a good representation that you're not. So you signed something just saying that you weren't going to trespass on something. She was really angry, so I was like, I'm just gonna try to de escalate the situation. Way to go, Michael. I mean it worked. She wasn't very angry after that, and she told me to have a good day, So it worked. I would have been I would have been just turnament, just like see you. Yeah, yeah, man, that's weird. How much information did you give those people? Uh? Not a lot? Did you sign the real name? They just asked for social It's kind of just like an M and a scribble. But yeah, she didn't know about Tristan. No, okay, she doesn't seek out Joe fingerprint though, Okay, how did you find those people? You signed a thing saying listen, listen? She wanted me too, I said, Okay, I don't know the situation, so I can't just completely criticize. I guess. Also, you know, you never know when they're going to talk to a neighbor. And yeah, I called everybody in that area. So because that's where the turkeys were. Oh, there were turkeys everywhere on private Like you hear about there not being a lot of austiles that is bullcorn, there were there were turkey's around for sure. Huh So, but how did you find those New York people? Did you go knock on their door that intense? Yeah? I did. I'm knocked on the door. But I did a lot of calling around and everything, like every possible way I could think of to get permission I did, which except actually put the money from somebody, which really hurt. Hey, there are a couple so Mormons that it didn't go well, and you had on camo. I took it off the second day. That was you think that there would be there's something to that, like, don't look like a hunter maybe, but who knows. But I think but he had no nice clothes, so yeah, sweat pants or you can look like a hunter. One of the other throw socks. I mean, it's bad. These are nice socks. Man. You should have paid good money for these. Should that cash and bought some pants. Know, some joggers you should have been wearing them shorts down there getting them legs tan I did one day and they carry they got burnt. So how many farmers stand? That's nice? Man? How many people did you talk to you in person? Probably ten to fifteen. What was the most receptive thing that you found? People liked about you? Nothing? Nothing, There was not a thing they were like, oh, yeah, okay, you said one guy gave precision to hunt? Yeah, one guy? Why do you pression? There were a couple of people that like, actually somewhat thought about it, Like there were a lot of people that were it's like a family or deal down there. It seems like so they have to go ask their family or they told me they have to go ask their family. And then it just didn't ever Like a couple of people just didn't respond. A couple of people said no, A couple of people just the guy who was going to let you hunt. Yeah, did because why, I don't know, good guy, real nice guy. Well so most people aren't going to run in the herd of the video thing, yeah, you know, because it's not what most people were doing. So, like, you know, from a normal just hunting standpoint, what was the approach that was like convincing to people? I don't I don't know. I just change it at all. It's all the same thing basically, you know, I would change it from situation to situation. Just try to be like I don't really want to just go up to somebody and just be like, hey, can I hunt your property. It's like kind of like, you know, feel them out, and then try to pop it in the most nonchalant way, which is pop it explain pop pop the question, pop the question you ask people. Yeah, maybe the ring wasn't good enough. Maybe maybe I don't know. I feel like it is. Listen just because like a tart. You're saying, huh, a pop tart. I do like pop arts. I had a couple of pop tarts. Yeah, Hey, it didn't sound that weird to me when you said it to see you. Yeah, that's because that's because one of you guys is like hit you know yeah, so, um, you had people who thought about it for a little bit and then told you know, yeah, well usually it seemed like they were okay with it, and then they go talk to somebody else who has their name on the property and it was usually enough. Yeah, yeah, I can see how that could be. The game also went into a couple real big corporations that just had hunting leases filled up for the year. How can you get in on that lease? Just wait until they quicker re up? So do you know when that is? I can find out real real quick. Good have some contacts and stuff. Oh yeah, So like if you wanted to kill a bird next year, Oh you feel we could all go kill a bird. Well you said that before you lift. We could all go kill a bird next year. There are multiple properties that we could get permission on. And I also wondered how much like doing it, like trying to get permission for that day affected it. If I if I was kind of put them on the spot a couple of weeks before, a couple of months before, and I like offered to help out around the farm or something like, would people be more willing to give me permission. Yeah, you know, this is kind of a weird deal. Maybe a little bit privileged, but like I'm fine with the working for permission thing or whatever. I've done a little bit of it, you know. But it's kind of a shame that you almost feel like you have to do that every time, like somebody won't let you hunt. And I guess I'm being hypocritical because I don't want I don't really want somebody hunting my property either, but I'm a hunter, so like I have like I will be out there, my kids will be out there, you know, And it's just kind of weird that I don't know that we've got to a point where either the faith, the like perception of hunting is low enough where people don't let you go, or it's the inverse that it's just maybe it's still commercialized that everybody, like you said, I feel like that's a little more of it. It's a money thing. I think it's a money thing. I think people just know now. They just know that well, especially for a like that's a coveted animal, like the ostiola thing. It's kind of like, how I mean, this is kind of a turkey thing, right, but like the Goulds is kind of has like a gate keeping thing, and gatekeeping isn't always like as negative a connotation as what you think it might be. But there's just like a firewall or whatever that you have to get past. All is the same thing. People know that, Hey, people want this for a specific reason, you know, and so we're gonna not really be about that, you know. The West is a good example of this, where some states mule deer are highly valued and then white tails not at all. So I haven't had the experience, but I have friends who have had this where if you ask for whitetail only permission to hunt a place, they say, oh, yeah, no big deal, you know, whereas the mulier they're like really into it. So maybe you should have told those people that you're only gonna shoot the Eastern Virgin. Yeah you're right, prove prove it. Yeah, I mean, Casey didn't even think these things are actually different than an Eastern, right, I guarantee you this. So if Osceola and an Eastern got tangled up while they were smiling, they they would probably still spit out a Bible offspring. So yeah, there are those. Well it's funny because these things like this that happen where. And I think the turkey truly is subspecies, right, it's a uh um, the turkey is just an American turkey. And then the only true species that's different is the oscillated but um, which is up for debate at quarters it right, Um. Anyways, mule deer and blacktail deer are like this, and I think Osceola is an easterner like this, where it's a imaginary line that humans have drawn that separate them. Like it's like I seventy or something like that for mule deer and blacktail. You know I'm talking about. Um, there's like an interstate where if you kill something north of it, it's a blacktail, you kill something south of it, it's a mule deer, and Osceola is in the same way. Right, It's basically if it's in the Peninsula Florida, they say it's an osciola really but so obviously obviously that's not the case, like there's gonna be hybrids. I feel like it's more like a gradual shift down to it, because there's no way it's just the peninsula starts, ossiolas start, but they look different. Oh yeah, really, oh, Yeah, what's so different about them? They're just way darker, way darker, and way smaller, not way smaller, smaller for sure. Here's the thing, guys, what's the thing, Tiger, I don't want to hear this. These human delineators that we have, like roads, highways, peninsulas, rivers, they actually they actually in state lines, these things that are oftentimes actually built because of geography or environmental differences. So I'm not saying that Asseola and the Eastern is different necessarily, but I'm saying that a lot of times there's a difference because of a mountain range or something like that, or they're like, you know, a state line is a river and so things are just different on the other side or whatever it's higher elevation, whatever it might be. I think about this because when you think about Casey and I have spent a lot of time every year looking through statistics about like units out west, and you see a unit that's right next to like just the baddest unit in the whole date for elk or deer or whatever, and you're like, oh man, they got to be in there too, right, you shut up out there on the border, right, And it does work sometimes and you see where that works, and you see where it could work. But at the end of the day, most of the time, the reason that there is more tags and that other unit, or that less people apply for it is because truly, the deer don't go over that mountain range because it's dryer over there, and the clouds always build up on this side of the mountain and fall out on that side or whatever. You know. So there are things that certainly play into all this, and a lot of these places and states, state lines and highways and all this are developed along geographical differences. So I tend to think that, like potentially there is there's definitely differences in wildlife. As you and I know traveling across the country. The deer that I shot in South Texas last year was so much tinier than the deer that I shot at in South Dakota, you know what I mean, Or the deer that hunter shot in South Dakota. I mean, it's just yeah, sure, I mean they're all so, but is that a it's fun to do fun things, and chasing a slam or whatever lets you do a fun thing, And so I'm all about Like I was excited that Michael had the potential potential to kill the Grand Slam or whatever it's called for turkeys, right, Yeah, but is it a if you're going to go down the road you're going down? How many other times have we not recognized the difference? Likes the Eastern in main really going to be the same thing as the Eastern in Tennessee. I don't think so. I don't think it would be more different than the osceola in the eastern Tennessee. Yeah, but it's not lined out that way. You know, you have to go. You'd have to talk a little more to some biologists to understand why maybe, and they still might not be able to provide very good evidence. But I just like, I like the thought of whatever it is that makes animals in the same species different than each other, or you know, even like we talked about with a few weeks back, with mule deer in whitetail's being like having viable offspring but also looking so different from each other, you know what I mean, It's weird. Like to to missing New Yorker, she could see a mule deer in a white tail buck if they look you know, same size, and she would just be like deer and that she really wouldn't even think it spend two seconds seeing the difference in them. But for me, I'm like, I look at the black brow on that thing, and like the tails white, and you know, it's just different. And you know, ears a giant forks and antlers, Like it's just cool that they're different, you know, even though technically no, you know, they have viable offspring. Yeah, it's just cool. I like, I like the differences in the animals, and there's something that makes a difference. There's something. There's something that makes a Carmon Mountain light tel Way smaller than a Dakota Hittell. You know what is it? I mean, southern latitude more than anything, probably just genetic variation. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, yeah, I like that stuff. I like. I like all the cutthroat species for those reasons. You know, I like chase those two. That's and it is one of those things where like part of it is chasing them and seeing them be different, you know, at the end of the day, like a big part of what we do and running all over the US and doing stuff. I mean, we could kill quite a few deer if we stay pretty close to home, but a big part of what we do is is adventure and explorer. You know, Yeah, it's just cool to see different things. Talking about that with buck truck stuff, it's like all these deer could breathe, well, could breathe the dose in that area. Yeah, at least because that's how it works. And so what makes them what makes the experience different and the differences where you kill it at you know, well, I go, we're talking about the buck Truck series and how much different the locations where that we killed deer. But they're all the same deer. So it's the locations they're cool. Well, it's one of the things that makes it a lot of fun. You go to Arkansas and the deer like black sometimes sometimes so they're different, yeah, but sometimes not. That's what's another interesting thing is that it's not as gradual as you think. There's like it's like a grid almost where the stuff kind of touches some of these places that we hunt. That's like the border between the Midwest and the plains. You've got some real Midwest looking ones and then you got some real planes you looking ones. Yeah, and it's not just all of them. They are just perfect mixture. Yeah, they're just kind of the back and forth. But I'm just saying like there's certainly differences in the animal too. I mean, if you were to go to Mississippi would look that deer looks like some of the deer you see in Arkansas, which looks like way different than in a Kansas deer or whatever, you know. And so that's what I love. I like the I like the places too. I like it all. I mean the reason that I go out and I adventure is because of the places, but it's also because of the deer, the birds, you know, the things that we don't get to see at home. Man that are you know, for some reason the habitat or the climate just suits them in other places, you know. That's what That's what That's so I got us on a big tangent here, but like I just think that, um just I was just playing the flip side of the coin that basically like those those as Yellows and Easterns in Florida are like who I mean, I I don't know the difference. I don't I hadn't tried to compare them, but it's all different. If I mean, I could, if I compare them, I'm sure, But like I haven't looked at it a picture of one beside the other necessarily, but you know there there sometimes is a highway or a state line that is a delineator in between subspecies or whatever, because it truly is water that flows a different direction or whatever it is. You know, So just thinking about that kind of thing, just giving an excuse to the people in the biology departments that probably don't need an excuse, but that set up. You know, there has to be a line at some point to manage game, you know, so where is that. We've got to make something up, that's it. I mean, there definitely is a difference between like northern Florida and then where the peninsula starts habitat wise, like North Florida is more like high pine country like and then you get down into the swamps the further south you go, so and there are a lot of agging North Florida, like grain. I mean, I shouldn't say because there's a lot of eggs south, but like corn and the beans, that kind of stuff is in Florida, right yeah. And then the further south you go, it seems like the more like citrus type stuff that's going on. You saw orchards and stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, never saw any turkeys out in them. Why didn't I think your citrus bag man, somebody last year was killing turkeys in a citrus orchards. I want to do so bad, but I just couldn't see turkeys being out in them. There's I mean, they got to go a long way usually to get out into where I could see. But I'm sure they go out there. That's food. So um. So you you decided at one point you couldn't get permission yep, and you started to run into this deal where you're like, man, I didn't even hunt it, and I've been here like a week or whatever. And he thought, well, might as well try to get on a bird and head out to the public ground. And you encountered a bunch of a bunch of guys out there along the way. Um decided you need to be pretty far back. Um, which didn't even work, but which still didn't work. But this country is pal meadows and what just cypress swamps. I mean it's like a mixture of palmetto flats with just select cut pines everywhere, and then just the nastiest swamps you could dream of. So did you could you see the swamps when you're looking on the map and scouting this stuff out. I used the wetlands layer usually, let me turn that on. I'm on the map right now. Yeah, and so interested in this that did? Was it? Did it work? Well? Yeah? Worked uly. It's a lot drier there than I feel like it usually is. But but once you know that, you know you can work the edges of those and once you see like what one wetlands looks like compared to a different one on the map, you can what is that in trees, crops and cover. Yeah, and so so when you you had to map out your whole course in there really well every day because of swamps. The first day I didn't. The first day I thought I could just you know, find a way and you just cross swamp after swamp and then you don't really want to just walk around on your phone just like looking to go around. But then you get spun around and it's like you got to find a better way to get in, dude. I bet before online mapping them places where a wild country. I can't even imagine you're trying to go in there. It's terri it would be terrible, be terrible, Dade. I mean, it wasn't the most fun with it. Yeah. So so most of the swamps because you just crossing the has most of them. Yeah. Really, And if you couldn't, you there's a lay down log or something you can go across. So always, what was what was the lowest temp? There? In the highest temp? It got pretty cold, honestly. There was one day that high was like sixty nine. That was the coldest day. What was the low It's like sixty so it's pretty temperate. Yeah, but that was the most action I saw of any day really. Yeah, and then high it was what five? So in a swamp if anybody's not been in a swamp when it's ninety five, it's not the worst. It's a couple at the end when it started to stay hot. Yeah. Um, what other creepy crawleys were around? Uh? Everything? You could imagine a lot of spiders, a lot of snakes, a lot of alligators, almost said, crocodiles that would have been. There are saltwater crocs in Florida. I think that. Um. So did you see any snakes that you that you assumed were not a water moccasin? Um? No, everything, I didn't. I only saw a couple of snakes and there was only one in the swamp. Though, did you document these snakes? Is there video evidence of the snake? There's one video evidence of one snake, but not the snake. What's the snake? So the same swamp I'm talking about, it's actually like just a mile long of wetlands. And that was the day I mapped it out better, but still had to go across like two big marshes and it's just like literally cypress stumps and like hollowed out logs everywhere. So like in a perfect world, you want to, like I don't know, pick up a stick or something and check everything. But I'm trying to go hunt turkey. I'm not sitting here trying to like take six hours to get back in there. That's why you didn't take it. Eric Crap, Yeah, scared. So I'm just I mean, I'm hoofing it. I'm at one point I got my foot stuck in two different Cypher's swamps, fell almost eight to Cypher's stump. I mean I was water. Oh yeah, I got wet really for sure. Camera Eric's no, I oh you didn't just dive bombing into the mudd. No, there's something that you there's something you learn when you're not the most athletic person that you can like, you know, turn your body fall. Yeah. It's kind of like receivers and not trapping the football. And I, I mean, I learned it from snowboarding and sucking at snowboarding. What if you are athletics, should you just dump it into the mud? I mean I wouldn't do that. I don't think. I think I'd probably just like catch myself or something. Yeah. Yeah, but you know, ever know when you just die in the air and stone you never knew anyway, So you're going through the swamp. I'm going through the swamp falling and sweating like crazy. I mean, I rang my shirt out. I was sweating so bad it was and I'm not like a super sweater and but oh yeah, my appetite it is through the roof right now. But anyway, so I'm hoofing it through and I stepped like over this log and there's a hollowed out log next to it, and I just feel like something hit my calf and I'm like, well, I hope it didn't go through because I knew exactly when it happened to what it was. And I just see this big, flat, fat black snake go into the water, and I'm like, I basically just like I get on the other side of the marsh because it's basically where I wanted to be, and I just like sit down and I'm just like, well, let's check, let's see what happened. And luckily Lacrosse makes some snake boots that are all right, and it didn't get through. But this is a change. You just posted the picture out. Yes, how much of that hole? Sorry, yeah, is from the snake. I think it ripped some, Like, it's not obviously the whole thing wasn't a finger whatever you call it, dude. Yeah, I would have jumped into the Cyper street. And then there's also probably some tearing that happened later from pal meadows catching it or whatever. But for the most part, that's what it looked like. Right, So did you see how deep it went? Wait? Like, is there is there there's an inner shell on the snakeproof boot? I guess so I just once it hits sad it's not going through. I guess. I don't know. The sun is Mike searcher on to see how far I was like literally took everything off, put the camera down, and like, I just have cried. I took my hat off. My hair's just poof, Like, I'm just like I looked like a joke. You expected people to give you permission looking like that? Well, no, I looked a lot better. That was after a two mile hike through the swamps in ninety degree. Well you just sit there and just think about life for a while, pretty much. I was like, that was like, if we're gonna say, there was one time where I was like, what am I doing? That was it? Yeah? That was the time I would have been to you walking around the plump by yourself. If that would have gone through your book, you literally died. Dude. Oh yeah, I'm toasted. There was no I had no service. I'm I'm back in it. Does your mom know about this? No? She could. Why would I tell my mom that? Yeah, hopefully she doesn't listen. I don't think she will. No, she don't like me. She tuned out last time. Yeah, probably she actually tuned out when I went on talking about I seventy just a second ago for ten minutes. Uh man, that's like, and you didn't tell nobody? Could you got back? Yeah? I couldn't know, but you could have told me like at some point in the last few dames. No, no, no, Well, I knew we were going to do a podcast about them. So it's like, you know, yeah, you see me pictures of gators. Yeah, how many gators did you see? I saw two gators, that's it. But I saw a lot of gator tracks that at first I didn't really understand was a gator track. It's like, who's walking around on their hands out here? And then it's like, oh, like I walked like five yards further and I'm like, that's a gator for sure. I mean, I don't know what else it could be. And as I'm doing an interview at one of the points when I realized it's a gator, there's like a tiny little bird in the bushes that makes a little bit of noise, and I jump out of my I'm like, oh, this is it? You know in the birding world what lbb's Oh yeah, little brown birds got you? It was black? But yeah, same. So you only saw two gators though, Yeah, And did you ever feel when you're going through a swamp like you're just gonna get attacked all of a sudden? No, No, you felt like it's clear, you could say real well, and yeah, I was ready to fight a gator. Hey, what is this thing? You didn't you didn't think that? Like no, I I was the first couple of days walking through the swamp because in Ohio, it's like, there's not gonna be a turkey just standing in standing water, like you don't. It's the same thing like in Arkansas. We were like, the deer aren't just gonna go sit out there in the middle of the swamp. But then you talk to the locals and it's like they don't. They don't care to all. They're used to it. So then that's when I started targeting the marshes and everything, and it's like, well, you're either gonna just be a whimp and you're not gonna hunt, or you're gonna hunt somewhere that there's not a lot of birds. You might kill a bird, but it's just gonna be very providential, as we say. And um, so it's either in the swamp and think about it but not really care, or just give the two gators you saw, how close are you to get an eaton? Bound? They're just out in the middle just like a river. Like I don't know if it's a river or creek, but it's something I wasn't about to cross. What's that thing on that stump right there? That? Why think? Ah, well, you sent me this. I have no idea. It looks like it. Do you think I'm there's a gator in the middle of the water. You think I'm looking at this looks like whipper for us heads sitting on a stump. Or you have like a park or something right there. That's where a lot of the guys who do water access. That's where they enter from. How big was the biggest gator? I don't know, like four foot? Oh they weren't big. No, they ten foot? Or should have cooked them up and ate them, dude, I don't think they would have liked that very much. I think the Florida gators would have got mad. Yeah, university, what's the quota on gator tags down there? Can you get one pretty easy? I have no idea. I wasn't really paying attention to the gator tags, to be honest, And gators are weird, man. I feel like I really want to hunt one, but then people will just go and like pay for kind of cheap hunts for gators. But maybe I'm wrong on that have to swamp people that old show. I should Gator Boys, Troy, Troy, that'd be fun. So would you what would you? Would you go do that what you just did again? You would no hesitation? Really, I think i'd take a little bit different approach. I would not like it. I don't think, oh you wouldn't. You wouldn't under but I speaking in absolute yeah, like I just don't. I just know there's no been, no point in my life that I think I would like to do that. I mean, I would like to hunt and osceola. I just would not like to walk through the swamps for miles trying to shoot one teach their own I suppose. Yeah, I wouldn't even want to shoot a dinner for that. I don't think there are more dear than you would think in Florida really for sure? Hey bucks, he sheds. I did not see any sheds. I saw a couple bucks. Tiny tims though, yeah, imagine they are. But see Spike Yer. I don't want to talk about when's the rut of Florida, isn't it? Like, yeah, it gets weird August, it's weird, like people go early for that, all right? So we're going to know absolutely. Remember, Oh, you didn't listen the last podcast I listened. Yeah, rather than zero than ninety for sure, dude. So I'm probably going to Canada that time of year, if I'm going anywhere. Casey, you and I spent some time hog hunting while he was down doing that hunting. Hunting. Hogs are just not easier with the bow man. They aren't many. They kind of are with a gun, like with a riffle you can if you have a place with hogs on it, you can expect to kill one. Yeah, you know? Is that just everything thought? Because if you pay five grand for an ossola, you can shoot one pretty much guaranteed too, right. I mean I've been on some riffle el hunts where you don't kill elt for sure. Do you pay for it? No? But I wouldn't planning paying for hog hunts either. Well you would if you had the right property. Maybe. I don't know, I'm just that's what I'm saying. It is like if you had the right property, right, everything is, everything is much easier, right, Brian, does it right? Have Alina though? Yeah, Well that's with bos but that's you go both ways of that too. If you have the right property with bos, it gets lay easier too. Yeah, that's true. So it just kind of depends on the situation. But still there is a thing where you can shoot a hog with a bow and then just take it. Yeah. They're tough, Yeah, even like the not tough ones are tough. Yeah. And I don't mean tough like tough to get a shot out. I mean toughest in like dying. Yeah, carry your arrow from mim. So we uh, we we've been doing some hug hunting because it's fun and the weather has been pretty nice here. Um, we've had nice sunny days but cool mornings, so it's been pretty fun. We've got some pigs hanging out in a couple of places we got permission to hunt, and we are h we're heading down to to try to shoot some pigs, and we actually end up walking a lot because we've had enough rain that some of this low country that we hunt is super wet right now. Um, So we walk around and I end up walking into some greenbrier and just getting in mean right into the mix. Long story short, me and Eric and you and Greg are kind of a few yards away in a place that the thing I dude, I got completely turned around, and I still think that I don't know. I can't tell you what happened, because we had the river on our right the whole time, and I ended up like a good quarter mile east to where I thought R to be, and I could still see the river. I don't understand. I don't I don't know what's going. So we geographicality, we get into like we get into pigs and they are all up in this greenbrier thicket right in front of us, right, and so we're just sitting there on the down wind side of it, right in the mix, and like I can't get shots. I'm trying to get shots, but there's pigs kind of feeding around, and they they just can see they see silhouettes really well, because that's they kind of have to rely on that. That the fact that they can see a silhouette, but they can't really see detail very well, and so when they see like a silhouette, they freeze and lock up for a second, you know, and give you the side eye. Well, we're sitting there and we can hear them move even all around in there. And I had seen a board that kind of got weird, and he had gone off the side, and finally I'm like, dude, I think they're coming. This whole group of like twenty pounders starts coming through. And when I say that, like they're legit. There they're under ten yards coming through past us, and like I could smoke these things, you know, And so I'm like, I'm like, man, should I just draw and shoot one of these? And I was like, there's a there's like a brownish golden orange one or whatever, and it's like coming on a cool color haule. They're cool and he's coming or it's coming out. I already seen one come out, but this one's coming out behind it through this little tunnel in this green brier brush. Well, as soon as it gets right to where I'm like, maybe gonna draw pretty soon, I see in the back of silhouette and there's a big sal back there. Not a big sal's a decent sal big compared to these. So it's like, all right, I'll just wait on this one. And ends up being two sALS. One of them's coming down the middle, the other one pokes her head out of the thicket on the on the right my right, Eric's right behind me, and I'm like, you know. I'm like, you know, we're trying to be real still because as soon as it pokes his head out at seas our silhouette. I mean, this pig is like ten or twelve yards and we're video and everything. Well, so the when it finally like sits there for a second and relaxes, Oh well, why this was happening? Casey starts alcohol and trying to find me. And when he alcoholed, all the pigs got real weird and started kind of like slowly working towards me, and then they kind of all like stopped to the second time he alcohol then they just froze. All the little piglets were frozen for like a minute, dude. Which there's a lot of interesting stuff to that. I just wouldn't think that hogs three hundred yards away would care about a somewhat natural sounding noise. I don't know, if you're that far you sign it closer than that. Well, I could see yall when you were running. How far were you from the pigs when you're running, I feel like I ran two hundred easy. I was about to pass out. Dude. You're about two hundred fifty yards from us when I saw you run yeah, I don't know. It's the alcohol sounded about one hundred and fifty yards from me. It was there was some dimensional things going on down there. Yeah yeah, but anyway that you were within a couple hundred yards. But it was a pretty loud sound compared to everything else going on in the woods at that time, So maybe there's that. I don't know. It sounded pretty good. It's not a bad alcohol at all, I don't think, but like it's just turkey gobble. It's all really carrious, and it could sound like a coyote, you know. It kind of has that same piece we had just after I alcohol. I saw you ran and saw kyotes between me and you. Weird, yeah, weird hunt's going on. Uh So anyway, the pig sixer head out freezes, gives us the side out like ten yards, and then she turns and starts to walk away, and the other one in the tunnel had already started had turned around as well. I'm thinking, man, this is my last chance to get it shot at one of these salves, because they're getting weird. They're fixing on those sides, thicking. I cannot get around it and get shots very quickly or easily. Easily, and so I draw back when she turns and puts her butt to me, and she kind of sees me out of the corner of ride because she still got her eye on me, and she she starts kind of jogging off, like unsure of what's going off on. And I give her like a little kind of noise, like a bark, almost more than anything. And she turns broadside and goes into the green greenbrier. This, I mean just but I can see her full silhouette right behind this little green brier thicket. I know exactly where her shoulders. I feel like I shoot, and she takes off running in the open and like the arrows sticking out, but it's in a good looking spot. It's just on the other side of her, so I can't tell exactly where it's at. And she takes off running. We take off running. I could have shot another pig probably in there, but I was like, well, I got one with an arrow and it looks good. So we take off and I go run in after and keep an eye on her for like two hundred yards Sault River bottom. So it's like kind of not much understory throughout. Finally a loser like two hundred and wait on KC or go back and meet KC market spot and uh, we go to tracking her and just long story, short tractor for a long time with decent blood and just we tracked for a long ways and she crossed like a flowing river and at that point we were stuck on our side of the river and there was just nothing we could really do. So and since then we've had truck camera pictures that same sounder and there's been the same two cells with it, so we assume she lived lived its weird dude, Yeah, and we found my arrow broken off, So I guess she has a broad broadhead in her shoulder or something maybe. But anyway, if that's the same pig, and and so I started thinking about this, and this is something that I think we encounter a lot. Eric. You actually shot a board as well recently and hit high right. I think there's two things that play here. Pigs can jump a string about as quick as a idea can do it, I mean, if not just as quick. And that pig was on edge, the pig you shot that was on edge. They both probably jumped a string to an extent. The pig I shot was probably twenty so still, you know, being on edge can jump a string a little bit and effect that. Secondly, pigs sit and they sit so low to the ground that even we're you know, it's different for a lot of people listening, but we have like we have green up happening here and grass is legit growing like I had. I've got flowers in my pasture and in my front yard until I mowed the to day that were legit two foot and have grown from nothing. It's a two foot I got some hint pick stuff you don't talk about. It looks kind of like a clover, a little tiny purple flower and stuffs like two foot talls places a yard and it's just a wheat. Yeah. So the thing is, you see a pig right now. You thought grass isn't that tall, but it is. And what I don't realize a lot of times I think is how low the chess cavity of a hog is sometimes and I really just think I need to start aiming lower at pigs. You just kind of lose, especially on black pigs. It's just all shadowy under there, and you just don't really realize the perspective and perception of how like where that chess cavity is still the one that I shot on that video that is on YouTube right now. Is the red shot her like probably fifteen or eighteen yards pretty close, and she moved before the air out there. Yeah, and I hit her high. It was in the lungs, but it was like above the halfway line, which is probably too high. I mean, very effective, don't get me wrong. But you're also like two inches from spine at that point down too, So she was and you she didn't see you drawing. She just saw two silhouettes there. Yeah, so like she was maybe even less spooky than the two that Eric and I shot at recently. Yeah, so and she moved, so I mean there's definitely something going on there. A couple of things think about if you're out hunting pigs. But man, we say it all the time, but this is like good stuff. It's teaching us a lot when it comes to shooting deer. It teaches us a lot about how animals can behave and how quickly they can jump strings, and how to gain really good perspective on what your actual target is and that kind of thing. Man. I'm also very thankful for good range finders because there's there's like a system to this where you aim as low as you feel like you can and there's a real good chance you hit something good. Whereas if like you don't get to range something, or you have kind of a junkie range finder, which I've had a lot of, you're not exactly sure about your range, or it doesn't have an angle compensation or whatever. Like the two or three inches that things could be off, especially shooting a heavier arrow could make a big difference. You know, you're not shooting as flat well, thirty six in thirty four make a difference. It ain't a lot. But if you're talking about I mean, dear especially you're small animals. They're not big, you know, like we got some big ones hanging around in here. But you know the Texas ones that we hunt a lot, or even most of the pigs we shoot are under two hundred pounds, And you're talking about a vitals area that's smaller than about the size of most computer screens. You know, we see got some of those sitting around here. Like if you don't hit right in the middle of that, so you hit up a little bit or you release up from where you're aiming, and that thing is able to move move a few inches as he missed the range about three yards. Yeah you're missing. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's over, you know, like it is. It does not take much. So being very sure of your range is a pretty big deal. I mean, I'm not saying I'm not going to take a shot if i don't know the range of something, because I've killed a lot of things without a range finder or without getting a range on it. But I got a good I am not just you know, poking in the wind out there, you know, like a good idea what's going on. But I guess what I'm saying is like it is really nice to be able to pop a range one of those pigs and know exactly how far they are. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean because they all look the same too. Yeah, no matter if they're one hundred pounds or two hundred and twenty pounds, their shape is the same. So perception, like death, perception distance is tough on pigs, it's hard to guess how far they are. But whitetail, on the other hand, like most of them are all the same size running around out there, Like I mean, the dozen bucks are difference. But but like you're not gonna be hunting a whitetail. One of them weighs one hundred pounds, the next one wighs two hundred and twenty pounds in the same place. It's just not how it works, you know. There hand it gets tough. Yeah, they're just and they're just such man. If you don't hit them, if you don't hit them in a really good spot, they just can go forever. They don't bleed a whole lot. They got mud caked all over on the absorbs, blood too. It's just it's tough. They're a tough animal. So I think we just gained one more spect form as we go, it seems like every year. But they are definitely fun to get after. Yeah, we found the pig heaven over there looking for your pig, and I actually shaved hair on one. There's two big boards that got up and like we didn't have the ideal camera set up. Now, this is one of those things you're all gonna laugh at us. Whatever. We're trying to fill the stuff. Right, we thought, oh, it's gonna be cool. We'll bring one long lens in one like just general use lens and get some really epic footage. Well, we ended up splitting up trying to track your pig. We weren't like sixty yards apart. But that left me with Greg who didn't have the Optimo leans for the situation. He was using the Hubble telescope. It's a big lens and so like, it was just kind of a if I wanted to kill a pig, I could have shot a pig, but we were trying to get on film, and so like, I didn't get to take the optimal opportunity. Big boys though, they were a big and they like, I've seen a lot of hog sign okay, And here's something if you don't hunt hogs, you might not realize. There's rootings which only tell you so much. And then there are beds and rubs and things like that which mean the hogs live there, like they that is where they are all the time, like during the day. It's where they're spending time. And that's what we found there. I mean I found a hog bed that I put my bow in, and you could have like laid my bow down and you could have stretched a bow on each side of it before you touched the edge of it, and then the same way the other direction too. I mean, the thing was almost the size of a car. It was crazy, so awesome. I'm kind of excited to go back in there. Yeah, me too, you man. That's what we're gonna be doing next a couple of weeks. Is just turkeys, hogs, maybe a little, but I know you don't like that. It's just fun for me. But anyway, those are some of the things we're gonna be doing. We've got some videos coming up on the channel. One is about very very fast bows, so if you like that kind of thing, it's an archery thing. We did a lot of testing recently and I hope that you guys enjoy that video, So be looking forward on channel if you're not subscribed, to make sure you are. Forty thousand of you are. Now that's pretty nice. It's pretty cool. I kind of feel a little bit like I'm living in a dream now because it just seems like a very large number that I thought I almost would never get to forever. But thank you guys for the support, Thanks for listening to the podcast and subscribing and listening everything that we do along the way. And remember this is your element living in

Save this episode