00:00:00 Speaker 1: Started very intro. Hey, I'm Casey and I'm tyling and you're listening to the Element podcast. What has happened in people's guess what? It's summertime? Can you believe it? Finally? Actually we're getting some summer weather. It's sweet summertime, Sweet summer country artists from love. You know, I was looking at this Michigan stuff because we've been looking at Maps Scout Challenge stuff. Actually, we have wrapped the Map Scout Challenge as far as production goes. That's exciting things, right, super exciting stuff for us. Um But on on X it shows you the temperature and the weather and all that kind of stuff up there, and like, dude, straight up, the on X weather station says it's like seventy two in the afternoon in Michigan when it's like ninety five here. I'm like, no, wonder you all sing all these songs about this stuff? All you northernas you know, be hanging out on Lake Michigan with a cool berries and oh man for to two degree waters. That's exciting stuff. Though. We're doing all that summer stuff, the prep and all that stuff. We just did a big old truck camera inventory got all our stuff in order. Um, and what also comes with that is kind of like some decisions, and we've been talking about some decisions we're gonna make when it comes to the Broadhead stuff. We kind of have some freedom this year shoot whatever we want to. You know, we're not really working with anybody to do broadheads, which is kind of what I like. Um, So we're gonna shoot a lot of different stuff, I think. And there is actually an authority on this stuff. I will go ahead and say, is it the Broadhead Association of Hunters? Yeah? Exactly. Yeah, that so lots of ads with red colors and all that kind of stuff. No, Actually the authority on the stuff is John Lust. Can We've had him on the podcast episode one oh six while while back, quite a while back, was John Lust on the podcast. In fact, I believe he has moved since then. I think the first one he was in Colorado. I know he's in Iowa. Now you just got the island and we talked to Yeah, but the last time we talked to him, we talked all about archery stuff because he's a hunter and a shooter and all kinds of stuff. But he really really likes to have a deep dive into broadheads and that's exactly what we do in the podcast today. If you haven't, you check out his YouTube channel because it's probably one of my most frequented YouTube channels, UM at least this time of year, just kind of looking at broadhead stuff. So go check out lust Archery Adventures and then listening here in a little bit. But first we've got some stuff to talk about. Uh. There are quite a few of y'all who have already signed up to come to our scouting event in Northeast Texas or I guess that's kind of north central Texas over there actually um at the hagramin National wild Refuge National Wildlife Refuge, Guys, I talked so fast, that's sometimes I get in front of myself. And if you're not tired, though, it's pretty impressive. Sometime around ten am, I can really spit it. Uh So, anyways, thank you all for sign up for that. I'm excited, super excited about it. If you don't know what we're talking about, you need to head over to our website and check out that. In our store, there's a place where you can sign up for that deal. We're gonna do a bunch of scouting out on the Hagerman not because like we want to just show you how to kill deer there, but it's probably the one place in Texas we can go on public land and still kind of have that public land field but also have like good dear, good size animals, good quality age structure and all that to kind of be able to show for purposes. And then we're gonna head back, probably grabs lunch somewhere in head back, and do a uh afternoon in the air conditioner. Bring your hammocks. But well we're gonna do some Q and A stuff and and all kinds of stuff that you talk about, some saddles and stuff like that too, So I'm super stoked about that. It's gonna be fun. I love these kind of events where we get to kind of be able to commun tod and hang out and talk. That's what the hog hunt was in February and was going to be even bigger, and then um God decided that we needed a lot of whether that was Jack Frost interesting about that false theology, But we did have a little inclement weather, but the hog hunt was still a lot of fun. And I kind of expect this to be no difference. So that's August fourteen. If you haven't signed up for that or you're interested in that, please do we have people coming from all over man, like South Texas. Yeah, so six hours away, different states. If you need a place to stay that night, we're all staying in a particular location. But we won't share that on your Nah. Well it's not anywhere near the Haggerman, but I would otherwise. Um, so I'm excited about that. Man. Uh, this man, where do y'all hunt? When? When I'll have a new answer for that. You know, we've we've been talking about this because we did in this que and the stuff the other day and uh, people say, so people know that we don't like to answer that, I think now, so they asked us this, have you ever been to over there by that service station? And now when I left, you know, and go right over there and then you go down to that double two track road and there's a big tree right there. You ever been there? And probably so I don't know. Our YouTube channel pretty much already got that figured out. That's right. My answer now has become ma'am, if you've been there, there's a good chance we've been there. That's my answer now, so uh, not that it's all in good fun, guys. It's a lot of fun, but honestly, you don't really want to hunt the places that we've hunt because, uh, our success on Texas public albeit is there, is not as good as it is in other places. So that's why, um, we like to go out and try to sharpen our skills and do everything we can. And that's kind of what this Hagerman thing is all about. Tyler. How are you feeling about your gear at the moment, your dear? Not good? Not good? Like I pretty much. I feel like I can go and hang in a tree stand and you know, be there pretty easy. It's good, you know what I mean? I could be there, But uh, as far as killing a deer, like making it happen from that point forward with a bow in a site, a peep site, and all the other things that I might need to make a good shot in broadhead that would kill, I'm not so sure right now because we're still hoping that we can shoot something different than an Matthews. At least you've got some bigger arrows. I got arrows. I just hoping to get a bow. Uh. We just full transparency, and we've been told that we would have a bunch of bows coming in for the Element guys to shoot. This has been told for about three months now, probably, and so I'm not sure if we're getting them or not, but I think they're coming. I just don't know. You'll probably hear this every week and they're like, Okay, same story. But I am like, we're hunting in Michael month. I mean, it's scary. We're shooting and deer September one. So if I can't get proficient with this new bow, um, I guess I'm gonna be tuning up to Matthews and doing it again. But hopefully I can get proficient very quickly and get some practice in. Yeah. I think what we're running into now is that we're not really industry guys, and we're trying to understand what's going on there. You know, it's not really our favorite it's not our favorite realm to exist here, but it's kind of part of the gig. So um, anyways, Uh, we're gonna have a good fall. Yeah, I'm excited about it. We're gonna make something happen. If anything else, Uh, you're tried, Bill Broke, so you can borrow my recurve and you can shoot that if you really need to call me bowl listen, Bowls Man Tyler Bolis, John Middle names it. But we got a bunch of trail cameras UM that we're gonna be getting out pretty soon, so we don't really put a lot of emphasis on summer trail cameras we used to. It's a lot of fun, but it's also a good way to really really sweat. I'm not thinking's as much fun as UM now is what I thought it was back then. Well, I think that's after we learned that you don't really kill a lot of deer from summer trail cameras. Yeah, maybe if you're from a different state you do, but if we don't. That's one of the questions that we've had come in for Q and A stuff. So in case you all we're wondering, we're doing some a Q and A podcast again here pretty soon, kind of like a preseason hype style Q and A podcast. So if you have any questions, head over to one of our social media things or to the website and you can submit a question and we'll answer on the podcast. Not because we're experts, but we like to talk. So if you can just at least give us some fodder, that would be good. That's right, man. So, uh, John Lusk is gonna be on the podcast today. Uh, Like we said, we've had him on the past, really really notable guy does a ton of broadhead testing and uh, you know, I've kind of fiddled around with that a little bit, but no or near what he has. And quite honestly, man like I figured out that everybody has to kind of they have X amount of time and you can fill that time with whatever you want to. And I'm by no means saying what John does doesn't have value. It has a ton of value, but it's not something that I can uh do because I don't have enough. I can't subtract time from other things I'm doing to do that. So I really appreciate You're not us enough to be able to dry Yeah, oh lusky lunge, You're not luskly enough to have enough time to do that. So uh he he really goes through a really cool testing process and works really hard at this stuff. So I'm excited to dive into this deeper because I'm honestly, I'm an observer of John more than anything. Like I watch its YouTube channel a lot, you know, and I know that you have some broad hay questions and stuff like that too. You mean I think you're gonna switch around a little bit this year. Huh yeah. Probably. Um, I'm gonna talk to John first and then I'll make some decision. Maybe I can maybe I can wrap that up as a smart dude and somebody who knows right at the sounds a good idea where you hunt well, I can assure you if I've shot a broad head, then you probably shot a bright head or whatever you saying was that's right, that's right. Well, guys, we are on the downhill for hunting season. Stoked. I'm glad to be doing this stuff though, because it's the stuff that kind of leads us into the hunting season. I mean, whenever you're talking about tipping your arrow with something, you know you're getting ready to do some shooting killing. So let's talk to John about what broadheads we should check out real quick. Before we get to John's interview, I wanted to make sure and reiterate the fact that we are doing that scouting session and we didn't talk about this, but actually Chad Rice from Cruiser Saddles is gonna be there to show us some of the new saddles, show us um how to use them, how to get into a tree with them, how to use them comfortably, and how to use them efficiently and shoot out of them and that kind of thing too. So that'll be part of the thing we do, probably on the inside of the hotel that we're gonna be at, so that we don't sweat the whole time. Chad has us building a fake tree for him or something, so I'm pretty excited about that. So once again, sign up for that thing so you can be a part of that deal, and also go check out Cruiser saddles dot com. All right, on the phone today, we have got John Lusk with lusk Archery Adventures. You may have seen him on YouTube. He's got an awesome channel over there. John, what's happening today? Man, Hey, it's good to be with you here again. Thanks so much for having me back on. It's been a while, right. I was trying to remember when was the last time we talked. It was February of twenty nineteen, I think is what it was that I know, I know, it's crazy. I felt like it wasn't that long. And then I got to thinking about it was like, man, it has been a little while. It's crazy because I honestly watch your channel probably um at least once a week because you know, I get your your notifications or whatever on YouTube and it's it's great. So, um, you know, you have a really cool YouTube channel. You're very scientifically minded. Uh and just so happens that here all back. You moved from Colorado to Iowa. So we want to talk about some broadhead stuff. But first you moved to the happy hunting ground? Man, how is Iowa? You know, I moved away from a happy hunting true, but I came to a different kind of happy hunting ground. And I'd be lying if I didn't say that factored into my because we've been in Colorado for so long, like a total of fifteen years, but but once for five and then once again for nine. So this last time, we were there for nine years and we were ready for a change. Although I loved all the different species that I could hunt there in Colorado, and you know, the scenery and everything, but we when we were looking for a new place, we were into smaller city and I really wanted good hunting, and so you know, we looked in southern California. I'm like, nope, you hunting. And then and then there was southern Texas and a lot of great hunting down there. But it was really hot, and you know, it wasn't like my wife didn't really like that. Then Iowa des Moine, I'm like, Okay, white tailed mecka of the world, here we come. So yeah, I've been loving it. We're here almost three years now. And at first I didn't have residency for the first season, so I couldn't hunt. But the last two, man, I've been so enjoying it. From the white tail to the turkey. I mean, you know, I get spring and fall both covered like that. Yeah, absolutely, man, that's that's that's awesome, are you uh? I know that you kind of are a dedicated bow hunter when it comes to big game, but with turkeys, do you whip out the shotgun or do you go on No, no, it's it's bow only for turkeys. I just love it. I mean I love the challenge sometimes, you know, not being in a blind I love that challenge. It's a little harmer heart of the film though I've done it, you know, at different times, but but then sometimes in the blind and I like it both ways, I really do. But yeah, I was spend good to me Turkey hunting wise man, I had man last year. I got to last year. I had the best experience, like a year and a half ago during COVID. I I was sitting in this bline, Okay, I hadn't seen anything for a while, and then and then you know, out of the blue, you know, you always hear it, like I just out of the blue, this this nice time comes in and I dropped him just boam, I mean, with an arrow. He just drops right at my decoy. And then I'm like getting down on my knees. I'm texting my friends and packing up my stuff and I look up and here comes this monster. I mean the first one was really good, but this monster is running in. But I'd already turned the camera off and everything, and yeah, I thought I hit it was a new camera. I thought I hit the record button and I hit like a focus button, and I thought I had great footage. I had no footage, and I had my go pro, but I was on my knee, so I couldn't get high enough to get the camera over the edge of the blind. I'm like, but I want to suit this thing because he's standing right over the one I shot. So I shot him and and but that was like this beautiful trip will be heard massive turkey. It was my first triple beard, so I had to boom boom lying there on top of each other. That was it sounds like a good meal to me, right, which I love turkey with the bow. And then I've loved white tail, and I you know, I got my best buck yet this last fall with with my bow. And then I'm also in my neighborhood, my little town here township, they have an urban hunt and so yeah, and they have this rule like whoever you can only shoot does but out of eight people, they let eight people hunt. Out of eight people, whoever gets the most does gets a buck tag for the next year. So the first top two people. So I got four does last year, and I thought that was gonna be way in but it was the number two guy. And so but now I get a buck tang. So I get a buck tag here locally, like right around the corner from my house, I mean like two hundred yards from my house, and I get the state buck tag. So I'm fired. Up about Iowa this fall. Yeah, man, that's awesome. That urban hunting is really intriguing to me because I just can see that it. I don't know, there's just so much of a story that you can develop with that, you know, just having whatever, you know, a dog path you know for people who walk their dogs out there, and then you're out there shooting big bugs in Iowa. That's cool, man. It's it's weird the way it works because when I go on the running trail, there's running trails cross the country, trails that go through this area. Hunt. I can get within like at times five yards of it here. They don't care and you're like sweaty and everything. But you go up in a tree, you know, a hundred feet off the trail, and it's a totally different ball game. I Mean, they're like, that smell should not be coming from there, and so they know so clearly what should and shouldn't be there, and there is hard to hunt there as they are you know, the other properties. And there's a bunch of people in Neon running those trails, but not as many sitting up in trees are there. That's a little different. They're not used to that that's funny. Yeah, that's cool. Man. So you shot your biggest book in Iowa, or your biggest book ever in Iwa recently, what did you shoot that deer with? Broadhead? Wise? That was a sever one point five using that a lot lately, And you know, I mean, I know, I get better connetration with a good stout fixed blade. They're a little bit more durable. But the sever one point five is the most durable meck that I've ever touched it, like by far, Like it's not even close. And I just love the forgiveness in the shot. And like for this one, I mean, this buck came running in chasing a dough and I mean I had to, you know, bleat stop it. And it was like it was like third just over thirty yards. I had this tiny little window above a branch, you know, in front of a tree, kind of quartering towards me. But you know, and I'm nervous as I'll get out. I'm like, cool, I'll look at that, don't look at it, don't look at it. And and so I was really glad to be used of the severed because I just know it's gonna it's so forgiving. I mean, I could be a little jittery or something and it's gonna fly like a field point. So anyway, it worked out really good for me. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm glad to hear you say that, because Tyler and I was we're talking about that this week. The thing that people, um, you know, there's this push nowadays, and it's validated because people have been shooting you know, six point eight inch cut ridiculous broadheads for a long time and they just don't quite do what they need to sometimes. But um, one of the things that the I guess the fixed blade professors UM tend to kind of ignore is that exact thing you're talking about is the hunting scenario side of things. You know, like you you get in that situation where you know, maybe bow tork is just inevitable and whenever you've got a decent fixed on the front that can definitely you know, impact your error flights. So I think that that's a huge point to make. You know, even a guy like you who is you know, I've you know, washed your channel, I know how you think, like you know, fixed blades are awesome, But in that scenario it makes total sense to where if you can find a mechanical that's reliable. You know, that's that's gonna be more forgiving, just like you said, yeah, it's and you know it's a small enough cut that it's still going to penetrate well for a mechanical, but a big enough cut that I get a nice wide cut, you know, like a three blade one and one eighth inch that actually is going to cut more tissue, like what like one point six eight inches of cut, whereas the like a one and a half inch mechanical you're getting one and a half I guess you get like the cross blade to like the feral tip has another five eighths of an inch, but anyway, they're similar that way, but that one and a half inch wide cut. I found that the width of a cut is much more important in blood letting than the total tissue cut. Like when you get you get a wide cut. What I found is when the animal moves around, that cut gets bigger, Like that's issue stretches and a wider cut just gets wider. But with a with a smaller diameter cut, even with three blades, it's it's a small hold in its circular kind of it doesn't stretch as much and it gets plugged up with tissue much more readily, and so you know, I mean shot placements, everything, and that's you know, that's cent of the game at least, and any head's going to kill something if you get the right shot. But I have had a number of smaller fixed blade heads plug up much more than I've had with a wider mechanical. So it's you know, everything is a trade off in broadhead selection. Yeah, So how I mean, I know you're up there hunting pretty big body deer in Iowa. How worried are you UM with penetration on a mechanical in most situations it sounds like it crosses your mind. But at the same time, like, um, I feel like some of these bows these days, you know, you could shoot a three blade and in most situations be okay. But I mean I have and done the extensive testing that you've done, So like, what have you seen that cause you to think that a three blade or some kind of different deploying UM mechanical might not penetrate what like what it needs to? UM? Well, you know they are big bodied, and if it's like a quartering shot, I get a little bit concerned about the penetration or you know, a shot if they're directly under my tree stand, you know, I get a little concerned about the penetrat but like a one and a half inch mechanical is going to penetrate just a little bit less than a larger three blade, So I mean it depends on the three blade. But but still what I found is, like my goal is to get first goal is one that's really accurate because again shot place. Then the second goal is I want a good chance of a pastor like that's imperative. I want two holes. That's you know, to stack my odds in that. And then third thing is I want the biggest cut I can get and the widest cut I can get while still accomplishing the first two things, you know, the accuracy and that penetration to get it passed through. So that change is based on the animal that I'm hunting, or my arrow weight selection or shot distance and stuff like that. So but those are the things I really think about it. And then it's the sharpness and the edge, your tension, and then the durability to make sure that it's cutting and holding together all the way through that two whole you know plan. So that's what I try to find the balance of and and I really like this ever one point five for that reason. But but there's a lot of other heads that I like to a lot of fixed blade heads too. Why is uh, why has two holes so important? You know? I like it for blood letting and so like you know some of the places that I hunt, and you know how it is. I mean, they can run a long ways really fast way. It's crazy how fast they can go and how far they can go. And sometimes it's if you don't have a good blood trail, man, you're kind of you know, you're up without a paddle, and it can be really difficult. Now, if you see and drop in sight, you know, that's awesome. But if I have to follow a blood trail, you know, I find that two holes, I'm going to get a better blood trail. I mean you can see it on the ground, the bloods coming out of both sides. And that's why I like. I don't typically for deer like to use an over the top deploy mechanical though I have used them and they've worked well in many situations. But with that, if you don't get a pass through, you're only getting one pretty small hole. Now you get it some good internal damage, but you're only getting one pretty small hole. If you use a rear deploy mechanical, you're gonna at least get one big hole, like you're guaranteed that. Now, if you get a pass through, you get two big holes, but at least you get one big hole, whereas an over the top at least you're getting one small hole. And I don't really want that. So I like a rear deploy mechanical and one that's tough enough and and not too wide where I can still really penetrate well. So I mean that's just my thing. Now. If I'm hunting smaller dear, then I can go to a bigger mechanical, you know, two inch or you know, something like that for some of the doughs that I shoot. Like I tried using this um this true blue cross breed this last year. That was really fun. And the great guys out of Australia that I've become good friends with, but they created this this kind of like auxiliary broadhead. Have you seen that? Yeah, And it's like it's like an over the top two point mechanical, but you screw another broadhead in on top of it, and so I'm like, I'll try it on a dough and uh. And so I put a tooth of the arrow. You know, it's two inches of cut on the top, and that was a small one, like the one inch by one inch cut, and then this has to two inches of cut below it. So you're getting you know, four inches of cut. And I drilled this dough. I mean it zipped right through, passed right through. But it was like it was a liver shot. It was a really quick shot, was staring right at me. I was raising boat and shot. But on a liver shot it went about like twenty something yards and died. I mean, I've never seen the liver shot kills. I'm like, man, because that's a lot of cutting going through the Yeah. So you know, I like to experiment with different things. Yeah. So I mean I don't have that kind of experience for sure. Um But in in some of our limited experience here and there, we have seen where like um, we like I got I've gotten a lot of passed through the last few years and have not seen the greatest of blood trails. Um using like two blade and I'm just wondering why that is, Like, and these are fixed blades so like, are you you know, is it? Is it the instance where like that particular cut is just closing up because it's so such a sharp broad head and it's so such a slim You're like, why why is that? I guess that's that's what you're Yeah, what's your cutting? Damn? I think they were in eight and three corr Bleaders or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, oh they had leaders too, So well that's you know, that's good having the bleeders. But again, it's kind of like I was saying, well, first of all, again, shot placement is huge, and that doesn't mean it's all up to us. Like whether a deer has inhaled or just exhaled and you hit the lungs makes a difference in how it's gonna bleed and how the blood, you know, how the blood is gonna come out. And I mean every anatomy and deer is different. You can there's some that you go, man, I double lung that thing and you see it on video and you go, but never recovered it. I mean, what in the world happened? Like sometimes just stuff happens and or they move a certain way, you know, in the broadhead beers off course, you know, right as it hits they jump and you never even know that, but you hit it in the right place. So shot placement isn't only up to us. There are weird things that happened, but when it comes to blood letting, nothing is as important as shot placement. And I've shot I've shot deer with a two blade one one eighth in single bevel that I mean, blood was everywhere because it was coming out of its mouth, but not much was coming out of the hole itself. But that's where I go back to the total the width of the cut. I mean, that's when I found that if I'm getting like like a one and a half inch you know width cut diameter then and it has a little bit of a cross because of that farrel, that thing is going to open up really big and it's not going to close up. But a smaller hole arrows zips right through. There's gonna be internal bleeding, but that hole is pretty small and that tissue can move just a little bit, and it's plugged, it's covered, and so I've seen that happen a number of times, and that's why I prefer, you know, a wider cutting head. So I'm but I've I've got a lot with there's a big single level rage right now, and I get it. I like single levels too, but a lot of people ask me, They're like, hey, so I'm thinking of using this, you know, single vel no bleeders for And I always ask them, what's your set up? What are your boast X, your you know, arrowweight, shot distance, what animal are you hunting? Things like that, and like for a white tail with a normal setup, I go, what why are you using that? They think a single level is going to be like a Rhoto router, you know, get like a drill and drill to it, and they don't realize, No, that's rotating like you know, maybe twenty degrees like in that in that thickness. I mean that's adding about ten percent tissue cut. And so you know that's a that's a one and one eighth inch hole, and you're adding ten percent cut if you put in a third blade, or you put in a fourth blade, or you put in a wider blade, as way more than ten percent in freaks. And so there's nothing magical about single bevels in terms of lethality. There is in terms of penetration and the way they breach bone. I mean that's there. You know. Their superpower is the way they you know, they can split a bone because they get that torque and it rotates to torque from the arrow and flight combined with the torque that's generated by the single level. Provided it stick enough to generate that george that that can you know, really breach bone. Will it splits it and then the aeroshoft can penetrate through it. But I I find it pretty much any head I use on white tail, I'm going to get a pastor it with most shots, So I want a bigger cut than a smaller cut. Yeah, I'm absolutely with you. I think that you know, Uh, the concern in the past, you know, when I shot a different setup was that, you know, do you have enough to punch through them? Well, nowadays, you know we're shooting you know, five plus grain total arrowweights, you know, and they just have what it takes to get through with most broadheads, right, so you can as long as you shoot something that's gonna have decent penetration that's just not gaudy, you know, you're going to be able to to get that. I think one thing that you you've seen, I don't know if you've tested this yet or not, I know you will send your letter. But is that, um, the iron wheel single bevel with the you know, also beveled bleeders. I'm really intrigued by that because you're kind of getting best of both worlds there, you know, have you missed with that at all? Yeah? So Bill is a good friend of mine and I had been lobbying since I first met him, like once you do sing about one, and we would go back and forth. He's like, and even as he called me up, so do you really think a single level is going to be better? And I'm like, and then, man, just because you call it, and you know, he's such a good thinker, such a great mind, and you know, as a physics professor everything. But so he goes, Okay, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna create one, not necessarily sell it, but from my own testing. And then he did and he was asking me, Okay, how what kind of bevel should I put on it? And I mean, I know that the best rotation is going to come from a forty five degree level, but it's hard to get that very sharp. And so but the closer you get to that, the better, the rotation. So I said, I don't know, you know, like I thought it should be closer to forty or something. But he did all this research. He goes, Okay, I'm gonna do twenty seven. So the first one was the seven inch bevel and he sent it to me to test, and I test, and it experienced quite a bit of edge chatter because twenty seven is just even with a two steel that's pretty thin. And so I mean we say quite a bit. I'm talking about through steel plate five times, and you know, you're getting a little bit of edge chatter. So then he boosted it to thirty two degrees. That made a whopping difference. And so that's what he ended up marketing. And I did the first you know, video test of it, you know, of that head, and I love that head, and it rotated exactly the same in my testing in gel it rotated exactly the same with the bleeders and without the bleeders. So yeah, it's really now I don't know if and he didn't know if the bevelling on the bleeders actually helps or or not. I found heads that that aren't even beveled on the bleeders, but still, you know, they still rotate. Well, you know, I don't know, he's not really sure, but it is awful cool to say, wow, these are are beveled as well, like the Cayuga, the Kyaga generation two elet cut Man. That was one of my favorite heads I tested last year because they get they're made out of Australia and they're you know, a two blade, single bevel, but they have that you can put all kinds of different um leaders in there. You can put in blanks to where there's no bleeder, or you can put in like a half inch leader, or you can put in a one inch bleeder that's single bevel and so and that one goes up to like a hundred and seventy five grains. I mean it is a thumper and it's really thick and so. Yeah, like that. I like that modularity of being able to switch out different sizes of bleeders and different bevels of leaders within that broadhead. That was pretty cool. Yeah, that is cool. I've looked at those a little bit and kind of wondered, uh, you know, with the exchangeable bleeders or replaceables or whatever you call them, and what it's lock on a single bevel to have you know, beveled main edge but not bleeders in bos versa. Now, this is a question that's kind of baffled me a little bit, and I'm sure you've done a little bit of testing. But um, if you are to make a true single bevel, at some point in time, like the tip of the broadhead ends up being flat as opposed to pointed. Um? Right? Is that? Am I thinking about this? Right? You know, kind of like the old bones or whatever, like, you end up with just like two bevels that come together from each direction, and you know, put a flat edge on the front. It might be sharp, but it's not pointed. Um. And then you have the other option of kind of at the end taking that down to like a tanto or something like that. Is there any drawback to having that old traditional style just kind of flat fronted sharp edge as opposed to a point. Personally, I much prefer the flat point to two bevels meeting together. It's super simple. It's extremely easy to sharpen. I mean they just go boom boom, you know on either side. Like anybody can sharpen those heads, especially if they're thick enough where you can really feel the devil and they're very durable in an impact. And when you have like when you introduce a tanto, then it get it gets pretty hard to sharpen that. And you're like, is this double bevel is a single bevel? Like it gets? It gets a little complicated in there, but like say like the Bishop Holy Trinity or the Alien V two. Alien V two is really cool because it's it's an inch and a half wide and it's just a triangle just like that. I mean, just like you said, you know, it comes to a flat tip, but but it's really sharp, and man, that thing what happens is they they're easy to sharpen, but then they rotate much more effectively than they would with a tanto tip, much more like that. That head rotated like I think it was seventy degrees in gel whereas like the iron wheel, I want to say it was like thirty five or something. I could be wrong in that. I think maybe it was fifty, but it was, you know, it was much less than that. And so I found that if your goal is to get more rotation than having that, like the v P A, the new vp A single vel, it has that same thing, just the two blades and it really doesn't affect penetration like people think it does. But it really doesn't. You know, like if you're if you're pushing it. This is what I found. This is like a big controversial thing. But if you take um like I've seen tests like this, they'll take some hide or hide simulant and they'll they'll have like a gauge and they're pushing the broadhead through it and they're seeing my hand. They see how much pressure it takes to penetrate through the hide, and so they'll see like like with this type of tip man, it just pushes right through, you know, two pounds of pressure. This one you gotta push ten pounds of pressure. But when that thing is flying at two seventy ft per second, it makes no difference, Like it really doesn't it. I mean that's why you see like a bullet, you know, you've got a blunt, big old ball, you know, and it just punches through it. And I know a broadhead is different, but it's there's something about the speed that makes a difference. And that's it's the same thing. It's a good count ratio, but the three to one at the whole ratio, you know, not height to with three to one. You know, the mechanical advantage. That's great for designing a wheelchair ramp. You know, it's great for like, okay, you know, lifting something, But when it comes to penetrating at high speed, I've found that the shorter broadheads with a steeper angle and less surface area penetrate better. I mean that's just from my testing. That's what I've seen over and over. Now, you know, I know the medium that you're putting it through can make a difference, but for my testing, shorter, less surface area penetrates better than three to one. So anyway, so the thing is, though, like to get back to that, the sharpness doesn't affect penetration nearly as much as people think. So, Like I've taken a like a two blade the same head, and one of them is super sharp, and then the other one. I'll take a steel file and I mean i will file it down like really fine, let down tour. It's blunt like a butter knife, and I shoot it through you know, a few mediums, and the one that's blunt penetrates like slightly, ever so slightly less than the one that's super sharp. Now, the one super sharp is cutting two sue more effectively. But the point is that the penetration comes a lot more from the momentum than it does from the sharpness, and so edge integrity is much more important than felt sharpness. So if you have a tip that's like maybe you have this little cool tento that's really pointing, that's really pointing, but then maybe that makes it weaker. And because it's a thinner devil, and if that gets dinged up on impact, that's going to penetrate way less than a head that has those two blades that there's two edges that come together because you know, it's a stronger steel, it's thicker than it because it's not gonna it's not gonna get dinged up, and that edge integrity is going to allow it to penetrate more effectively. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. You know you mentioned um mechanical advantage while I go and I had this discussion multiple times with Isaac Smith at at Vector Custom Shop. He's an air builder and um he's a real smart guy and uh he he has studied a lot on the ASHP theory and all that stuff, and we were discussing and he made the point like that three to one mechanical advantage probably really holds a ton of merit when it comes to you know, shooting a hundred nine ft per second projectiles out of a tread bow. You know, but nowadays, with modern equipment, you know, that's kind of skewed a little bit. But I kind of wonder where where that end? Like is there a new mechanical advantage to go by? You know what I'm saying. So like with our modern equipment, is it feasible for us to just shoot horizontal bladed broadheads? It kind of like almost like a decap or something for turkeys, you know what I'm saying, Like, what can you could you just send a uh something that looks like a t pretty much in through deer as long as it's sharp and exit you know, like where does it? Where does it end? Yeah, It's funny because I've heard different things about that, But overall, what I've come to believe is that the angle matters a lot less than people think. I mean, that's that's overall what I think. Um Like, like if it's it can be almost horizontal, just a little bit of angle and it's still penetrates really well, you know, I mean, there it does get a bit better as it gets narrower, but not as much as people think. So it's more like how it looks and how people feel it's going to penetrate than it is actually the penetration. So I mean, that's what I think. Everything in archery is marketing. Man. We all know that, okay, Like like here's here's another way you can see it, say in the sever and other heads that are like that, that same gator style of heads. You have those little wing butts, okay, the butts of the blades the opposite. Those are the ones that are pushed, you know, on impact, flip the swing, the blades open, and if you look at it from the top, those little wing but things are like over the blade for about you know, like an inch of it. And so you you go, well, then what's actually cutting that? How is that flat blunt wind but covering the blade? How does that penetrate? It does? It does? And I do the penetration desk and it outpenetrates a lot of other heads that don't have that because that it's it's not as important as what people think. So, like I said, Isaac from Vector is a pretty sharp dude, if I could say so, myself handsome but also sharp and mentality as well. Okay, and Isaac knows what's up when it comes to arrows as well as broadheads. He has made some really really cool stuff and we're super excited to shoot him this year. Some really great arrows that are durable but also not super duper heavy, so you can end up some really good fo C. So if you haven't, go check out Victor Custom Shop, go to their some arrow building tool and pick you out some Vector custom arrows today. And the same thing with the Saver to that I think is interesting is that they have like a self induced edge chatter where they you know, where the O ring goes, they just you know, take the short spot out and apparently that doesn't matter. You know. It's kind of weird. Yeah, that that's right, Yeah that people think a lot of times people comment, well there was a ding in that, Like, no, that was really rober Band went, yeah. Because the big thing with the Saver is they make up for that a lot with that. You know the ability of it's a swing and so that one blade hits a bone, you know, it can swing around it without veering off course, and it can penetrate really effectively, and then the back part those two what's really unique about that head is the two back edges of the blades kind of they touch each other and they and they have they if they hit a really hard impact, they have a little bit of an angle to a little bit of a bevel and they'll slide over each other. It's a pain because they get stuck open. That's the beauty. And yeah, so I've had to take pliers and pull them out, but that's its beauty. That's why they don't break because one, they lock open when they do that. The only other mechanical that to my knowledge, that locks open is the afflictor because it's considered barbed if it doesn't lock open. But the severs, you know, if you pull them backwards, they'll open up, but they lock in their full position and they just swing like that. But but two, if they hit something really hard, they have that little bit of ability to absorb it by the back ends of the blades rolling over each other. So that serves a shock absorber and keeps the blades from breaking. So it's it's really interesting how that works. So can you talk about and explain for those who might not know what the difference in the front deploying and a rear deploying head is and then how or if that makes much of a difference in penetration, and how that makes a difference. Yeah, that's a really good question, and it's each head is a little bit different. But in theory, there's the heads like say the grim reapers or the shackers, where the blades are tucked up at the top and there's a little bit of an arm that's sticking out and upon impact, that arm is forced backwards from the tip of the broadhead back to the back of the broadhead. It folds out, it flops outward, and so at impact it has a really small hole, just that hole that you see, you know, the diameter of the head in the closed position. But as it drives through the animal, those blades open up and they start to cut more tissue. So that's the over the top deployment mechanical. Then the rear deployment mechanical is like an n ap kill zone or a rage or a sever where it's it's just the opposite. There's something in the front, the back edge of the blades in the front, and it forces the blades back and they open from the back and so that by the time that that area hits the hide, the broadhead is in its fully open position. So you're getting a much larger entrance hole, and the broadhead is cutting right away. It's cutting tissue rather than absorbing some of that power by opening up. And so that's kind of the theory behind it. And like for me when when it comes to turkeys, I actually prefer an over the top deploying broadhead for turkeys because if you shoot it through the wing butt or something, man, that's really hard to penetrate. It's like, it's funny for such a small animal. I mean, it's really hard to penetrate that. And if you have a rear deploying broadhead, you shoot the tail. I mean it can work, but it's hard to break through all those quills and those those spines. But over the top to point, it's going in small and then opening up big, and so it's easier to penetrate a really difficult thing on the outside. So I like it for that purpose, But other than that, I prefer the rear deploying broadhead because at least I'm going to get one big hole, Like if if I'm not getting a pastor. I want to pass through. But if I'm not getting a pass through with the over the top two point that I'm just getting one small hole, you know, the broad hit in the closed position. But if a rear deploint, if I only get one hole, that one hole is going to be a big one. And so I'm guaranteed at least one big hole, and so I prefer it for that reason. I think I'm going to shoot some of those grand paper hybrids this year, kind of hoping for kind of the best of both worlds there, you know what I mean. Okay, Yeah, and I use those. I've taken a number of Hobbs and Deer with those. I really like those. And I like the new Jekyll and Hide. You know, the original owner, our designer of Grave Digger made those. I really like the new hybrid that he came out with um for the you know, the Grave Digger. It's funny, like I there's a time that I in Missouri, I shot a really nice book. I look at it right here on my wall, and it was a little bit quartering towards me, and I mean I I drilled it with one of those and then it turned around ran away. At forty yards, it was quartering her way. I drilled it again and there was just no blood. I mean, I never found a drop of blood. I found the animal and it hadn't gone that far and it's got two giant cuts in it, but there was no blood because it just I mean I say giant cuts, I mean a lot of tissue because there's the one inch plus the cross. But it didn't open up and so there wasn't the blood that that's created. There wasn't a hole that's created from a rear deploying head. So I don't know like they can certainly work, but I've had better success with a rear deploying mechanical then and over the top even with like a hybrid like that. So we're talking about the point of contact where your broad head meets the deer. But to get to that point to get the shot off, you've got to figure out when that deer is going to be in your area in the daylight. And one way that we're going to do that this year is by using the Multri Delta cell cam, and we've already been using it on the mas Scout Challenge series quite a bit. We deployed a few of those already the UH in the last week or so, and they're working for us up in Michigan and in Ohio right now. So if you're interested in running a cell cam this year, go check out multi mobile dot com. So I have, you know, speaking of mechanicals, I started out kind of like a lot of people did, and shot rages because you know, that's what's marketed. The heaviest, I would say, and UH had some you know, some good stuff and some bad stuff whatever. But uh, since just a lot of experience, now pretty much have a complete and total embargo on any aluminum ferrells on my broadheads, whether that is you know, fixed or mechanical. Uh Am, I totally off the mark there? Or what do you think about aluminium broadheads? Okay, that's a really good question, and I've gone back and forth. There was a time that I didn't know any better and I never even thought of it. Then there's a time that I was like, okay, steel only, and then as I've tested more and more. First of all, the aluminums are not all created equal. You know the difference between six and seventies seventy five, I mean a significant difference. So you know, something. A lot of the times they'll say aircraft aluminium because you know, most people don't know. They said, oh, it's built a plane out of this, which is true, but it's you know, it's resistance to impact is much greater in the seventies seventy five aluminum than it is the sixtiese So however, even the seventies seventy five that's stronger than some steals, but not most steals, so it's not as strong. However, I've shot these, you know, aluminum ferrel heads into steel plane. I just did it just yesterday with a Grim Reaper white Tail Special, and man, that Farrell came out looking really good. I mean had a little bit of a wabble to it, but it came out looking good. However, if I hit something hard and an angle, that's when the aluminum really shows. When there's a lateral pressure, an angled pressure on a sideways pressure, that's where that aluminum can really bend a hard impact straight on. They typically do fine, but from an angle they don't typically do fine. So I I prefer steel or titanium. I'll go with titanium. But then again, the design makes a difference. I mean, you look at some ferules and they're extremely vented, like maybe they have four blades coming out of them, so it's like super vented. So there's not that much material in there. Well, if it's really vented and it's aluminum, oh man, that makes a difference. Or if it's really long, like if it's really long, well then it's not going to be as durable and when it when it hits at an angle like that. So if it's really long and really vented, like say an N A P like an N A P like kill zone and that's really vented and really long and it's aluminum, so you go that that may not be very good, not as good as steel. But you can have a really short stocky not supervented aluminum, and just by its geometry it's gonna be stronger. So it's not just the material, it's the material plus the design, the geometry, the amount of material there is all that makes a difference in the overall durability. You know so much about this it's ridiculous. I know, I feel like I'm being too nerdy. Let's go. No, that's that's why that's why we got you on because you know this stuff and I love it. I just don't quite um, I guess have the passion to you know, go as deep as you do on this stuff. So it's really cool that you, you you know, do that. So it's really cool. And with that, Um, so you test broadheads primarily on your YouTube channel. You do a lot of a lot of other stuff, right, but that's kind of what's what you do, you know, on a day in and day out basis, as far as you know your contribution to the YouTube world. It seems to me so um and you've gone through this testing process for quite a few years now and done a bunch of different stuff. But I was telling you all fair earlier, I really feel like you've got this thing nailed now. For like what the uh riggers you put broadheads through is? Can you tell us a little bit about like the development of a testing process for broadheads and kind of why you are where you're at on that. Yeah, Yeah, that's a great question. You asked great questions. Thank you for this is the problem. I think about this stuff a lot. Okay, being an engineer, I mean I have a degree in civil engineering, not like I studied broadhead design as an engineer, but it teaches you how to think like an engineer, and so I really do have some some things in mind when I'm creating the test. My first test, my first broadhead test video, I won a Bishop dicing drill on Archery Talk. It was a little giveaway and it was a random draw, and then the guy said, hey, you know, I had a few bow hunting videos. He said, hey, maybe do a test of it and show it on your video, because you you want it. I'm like, okay, I'll do that, and I didn't know what to do. I shouted through a pumpkin. I shouted through I had a two by four. I'm like that, I had a frozen shoulder of a hog. I'm like, let me shoot it. And I just kind of had fun and shot stuff and that. But but then I posted it and people liked it, and then I'm like, hey, you know, why don't I And it's from them. That was about five years ago. It's involved so much because I'm always like thinking, what's next, what's next? My goal is this, I want to provide real data points, consistent data points by which with which you can use to compare one head to the other. So that's the goal. Comparative data points, so you can compare head to head. People ask me all the time, why don't you test these unreal animals? Well, I put up a broadhead test video at least once a week. I don't have fifty sixty animals that I can shoot, you know, to test. Let me tell you, I mean, believe me, I thought about that. My dream place to live is like in in the hill country of West Texas. That's like I have an ant who lives in Curville. Man, I just love to live in that area. Yeah beautiful. But anyway, so I you know, I want I want comparative data points. And with animals. One, I don't have enough animals. But too even if I did, that's not there's no comparative value, like you can say, Look this head punched right through the shoulder. Look this head broke on the shoulder. Yeah, well the different shoulders have different geometries, different bone densities. They hit it slightly different angles. They're not all flat, and so it's good to see what happens. But you can't compare that head to head. And I see people saying this head stronger because it, you know, made it through this animal. This one broken an animal. I go, you can't say that you have to have homogeneity. You've gotta have you gotta have consistency. You've gotta have uniformity in the test if you're going to compare them. So my goal is to provide comparative data. So the number one rule is the test have to be consistent as consistent as possible, So and then number So that's what I do. All my test mediums are consistency. One of my challenges is if I change from like, like I changed my test a little bit from two thousand one, well then it's hard to compare the data points with two one with those of two thousands exactly, because yeah, they're a little bit different. It's a content dream because now you just get to redo all your old pests. I know, if I have enough broad ads, I do that, but sometimes it's hard to get the broad heads again. Somebody donates a pack or something. I just have one pack, so I can't do it again. But yes, some I redo like that with the new protocols. But so first of all, it has to be uniform and so like I do a penetration test, and one of my penetration tests, I wanted to simulate an animal as much as I can possibly do while still be in uniform. So I use a half inch of MDF medium density fiberboard to imitate bone. I used to use plywood, but then plywood has knots and it has grains, and it makes a bit of a difference. I know MDF can sometimes not be as uniform, but it's more uniform than applied with and so I use that, and then I surround it with two different layers, one on the front, one of the back of two thirds of an inch rubber foam mat that's to simulate hide, and then I back behind that is Clear Ballistics FBI grade gel, which you know, it's designed to exactly simulate tissue human tissue. I know in a broadhead application it's not as effective as it is like in a in a bullet concussion application, because the gel can tend to stick to the broadhead, the shaft and the blades, whereas in an animal, you know it's lubricated by the blood and the fluid. So it's a little different, but it's consistent. And the clear gail is kind of cool because you can see the broadhead go into it. So I test all of them like that, and I see, okay, how well do they penetrate, And I'll mark the you know, I'll measure the penetration as well as the total tissue cut and like the cutting diameter. When is it opened. If it's a mechanical, when does it open to its full length? Times the number of inches that have penetrated, and I get the total tissue cut, so you can compare different heads. You go, well, this big giant broadhead, you know, it made a really big hole but only penetrated four inches. Yeah, but it cut more tissue than the smaller head that penetrated eight inches because the cuts, you know, So I provide that so you can compare it. Then I have another data point that I shoot them through layers of cardboard. That's one of my favorites men. Yeah, yeah, exactly because the consistency, and it's it's the one that you can just straight up compare all broadheads, you know, mechanical or fixed on the same scale right there. Yeah, And you know, I'm trying to like, there's little things, you go, how do I get the cardboard layers to stick together? Finally, I finally came up with this idea of just getting four big old f clamps and they're like, you know, I got him on Amazon, and so they just sench the the cardboard together. It's easy to unscrew and take them apart, and I'll just count the layers and you see it, and that's a it's an amazing test because okay, like like the Exodus. I tested the Exodus. I supposted that video last night that went through sixty six layers of cardboard, whereas like you know, you'll see it another two blade head that penetrates through like forty eight layers and you're like, what, Like, it's amazing. Sometimes it's really counterintuitive what happens. I'm not saying that exactly simulates an animal, but I am saying that's a data point. So so it's very consistent. You can compare absolutely, and I want to continue on with that, but I would like to deviate it for just a second. I know you love the exit Quy Exodus, and uh I've shot a deal with it and I like it. Okay, uh I haven't used it a ton, but um, can you maybe hypothesized as to why it is such a good penetrator in your tests? Yeah? Yeah, there's some things they've really done super well, like one there's very little surface area because it's so flat, especially in the swept blade model, there's just very little surface area. So surface area can tend to like when it passes through bone or you know, more dense tissue. Of course in my tests, you know, like the gel or the paper, but in an animal bone or really dense tissue, dry drier tissue, the surface area it catches and it creates a friction. So the greater the surface area, the more friction there is. That impedes the penetration. That's one thing. So the exodus what it does is it you know, it has very little surface area like that, then it has a really fat ferrel. And with a fat ferrell, like a thick ferrell one, it's it's extra durable. But to it opens up a hole that the shaft can just slide right through, similar to how a two blade single bevel. You know it it torqus went upon hitting the bone and it splits the bone and then the shaft can penetrate right through it. Well, a wide ferrell does the same. So like the exodus, or say a tooth of the arrow, they have a really fat ferrel and one for flight. That makes it better because the weight is really concentric, and it's it's all close to the center. But then too, it opens up that real big hole and the shaft just glides right through it. So that's another reason. Then with the Exodus too, they did this really master of thing. Their chiseled tip. It's and I'm trying to point it out in that video, but it yet has the same blade angle as the blades. The blades continue on that same blade angle, whereas there's other heads. I compared it to the lot that there's that little tip and then the blades flare out from it. So that puts a lot It's good that you know you're getting a cut there, but it's bad that you're you know, there's a lot of pressure on the blade at that point. I've seen a number of break right at that point. So having that consists dncy of the blade angle, that helps the penetration. And then the blades are just really thick win o four oh inches thick, and and for whatever reason, they have figured out a way to retain that edge like very few heads can do with just a stainless steel. I mean, maybe you saw in the video I shot it through steel plate five times. You literally could not tell it had been shot at all, and you'll see other heads good. Like I just I'm testing the Striker X right now, the G five Striker X. You know it's pretty good through the steel. I mean it did, you know, respectable, but you know, first shot, the blades are all nicked up. The X is five shots and no knicks. Yeah, I think that that's going to make a difference. It's kind of wild for and this is probably the topic of mine for a lot of people that you know that are listening. Is that what that Exodus can do in your test for the price point that it's at. I think that's what's the craziest thing, you know, of course, like with the iron Wheel or maybe like I don't know, I've been looking at the you know who those guys out of Colorado, the cut Throats, right, so like the three breaking cut Throat, Like I kind of interest in that too, but they're expensive, and then you look at the Exodus. It's like what they're thirty dollars for pack of three or something like that, right, I mean it's kind of crazy. Yeah, thirty nine bucks for three. You know, they do something in their hardening process of that stainless that. I don't know. Nobody else has figured out how to do it. I mean, and I've asked them about it. You know, they won't tell me it's proprietary. The rock well, I mean they said it was like low to mid fifties. But they've just figured out something. I mean, I've shot a lot of heads and that tip has held up in steel flat bar. I mean I've shot it smack into a steel flat bar and it held together fine, whereas like the iron will and steel flat bar, it fell apart. I mean, you can't expect it. I don't fault iron Will for that were killing steel flat bar. So it's fine, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But as a data point, because that tip in the Exodus one, it's really sharp, like when you feel it, it's not just like a pyramid kind of a you know, a little point. It's sharp because it has a little bit of con cavity to it. But then too, it's it flares out really fast like it's it's like really wide. It's not like a narrow little tip. So with that width, it starts to cut really well, and then it just continues through the blade lengths. I don't know, they've got got it down. I wish they made a four blade, but they're like, they know they got a good thing, and they're just like, you know, QUI doesn't qui. It doesn't make a lot of new stuff. But what they make they make really well. Yeah they I mean you make the rest that everyone uses, and then you make a really good broadhead. I mean you don't really have to do a lot more, you know, It's true. Yeah, others are like, let's do this, let's do this, And I love that too. I mean your companies like Grim Reaper that they've got, you know, more different models than any other company, and amp Shop with family owned business. But I love that you know all the different designs. But I also really respect we got one and we do it really well. And and then that those blades are replaceable. So to have a broad head that you can shoot through steel play. The blades do not nick at all. They can hold up in concrete. Even the blades hold up in concrete, and you can either resharpen them or replace them. You go, WHOA like what you would expect some durability I got in a single construction, single piece construction of you know, tool steel or something. But you can't replace those blades. I mean, you can resharpen them, but you can't replace them. So it's just it's just amazing what they've been able to do in that head. So this is our main show podcast, like the one we're doing here with John, but we also have another podcast series called Public Pens. It's a podcast we're doing with on X to really explain how we use their mapping tool to find places we think we can hunt big bucks in the fall. Okay, their tool is awesome. It has so many features that really help us determine where dear might be living, betting, feeding, all this other stuff. Right, holler, what is your favorite public pen? My favorite public pan? This is a p part, but I liked the Secondary Creek crossings because it's kind of something not many people talk about and I like, Oh, is that one even out yet? I don't know, I can't remember. You need to make sure and check that out. Those come out on every Tuesday at six am. So get up, go for a little run and listen to public Pens, and go download the on X mapping app today. So let's talk, you know, a little bit about some of the newer things you've added to your testing protocol. You the I don't remember what you called it, but there's an instrument that you're using to test sharpness with piece of mono film screen. Is that correct? Okay? Kind of okay. So some of the references like I was doing a push paper test, so I shoot it through a medium and then I, you know, first I do the out of the box sharpness and then I wanted to do an edge retention test, so I would, you know, push paper over it. Well it's you know, some people would say, well, that didn't cut the paper really cleanly, and well you pushed too hard or you pulled the paper tighter. And I mean, I'm not doing anything on purpose, but I mean there's some subjectivity to and there's some human air or whatever lack of consistency. So somebody told me about this edge on Up. That's what the company edge on A makes this sharpness tester for knives. And what what makes it really unique is it's a scale and it has a little contraption that you can put a blade in in this case of broadhead or no, you can put I'm sorry, you put a clip in on the scale and the clip had This is the unique thing about it has this co polymer wire, so it's not monofilament. It's a co polymer, which is like this really advanced wire and it's designed to be able to break very cleanly and very consistently with a certain amount of pressure. So it's that consistency. And those are like best certified b s s. It's some kind of certification. I know, they say it's a big thing, best certified. So the consistency of that co polymer wire is really consistent, and they're not cheap, Like I go through a lot of those things I have to keep buying. I asked them to call me because I'm advertising them so much. They didn't even respond to the right. So you put one of those clips on the scale and this little contraption holds it, and then you just press the broadhead really slowly. I speed it up because it takes too long at speed up in the video. But you press the broadhead across it and then you see when it breaks. And I do it about three or four times for each broadhead to make sure I'm getting a consistent number, because sometimes maybe you hit a dull spot or something like that. But but so I do that and then I so that gets the initial sharpness very consistent, and then I do it after penetration test one. So the reason I do it after penetration test one is everything goes through the exact same medium and the only some penetrate you know, an inch or two farther than others. But the difference is only in gael and that's not dolling the broadhead very much at all. Whereas if I did it after the cardboard test, like I said, the exodus goes through sixty layers, this other head goes through, well, that's not fair to do an edge retention test after that the exodus is penetrated through more layers. So it's really consistent with after first penetration tests that I do with those materials. So then I do it, I see, well, how much of the sharpness has been lost, and then I come up that that measure is in grams because it's grams of pressure needed to cut through the co polymer wire. But then I have a scale of one to ten, and I always described this in the description box of every video, um, but I have a scale zero to ten of the sharpness and of the edge retention based on those grams of pressure that it takes to break through the co polymer wire. So it's much more Is it perfect now? But it's much more consistent than a push paper test? Yeah? Sure. So, um, I'm a little confused, I think on what you're doing sometimes, not because as your own fault, because I I don't realize which videos are from what year and stuff, right, But I know I got to write that, you know, I've thought about doing that. That's the bummer about YouTube. Like I get a lot of people saying, get a new mike. Well, you're looking at something from like five years ago. I'm like, yeah, that was like my handicam in my backyard. I've gotten better. Are you doing the stroke of the arrow test anymore? Or has that gone by the wayside and been replaced by this that's been replaced? Okay, that's been replaced. So now I do I just measure it after penetration test one, so rather than stroke in the air, because some people are like, you're pushing hard around the arrow on this one. I'm like, I'm not, like, why do you use in an arrow? And man, that took a lot of thought to find a medium that would really test the edge. I used antler, I use bone, I used skull I used. I mean I went through Steve, I went through some cardboard and then for some reason and not a shafts but the eastern heck shaft within five strokes. It really separated those that held their heads from those that didn't. But still this, this test is more realistic. It's it's much more consistent. And again that's what I'm always trying to improve upon, is the consistency. And I'm open, like I'm already thinking in two one, Okay, what am I going to do for two and our two twenty two? You know what can I Is there something I can prove upon? I try not to change within a year because I want at least a year of data points, and you know what I should do. Even as you say that, it reminded me I should go back and put the year on each of the videos so people know there's a difference between you just separating playlists. I don't know if you thought about that, but that's a good idea, you know I have. Yeah, I do separate playlists, but I haven't done playlists by years. I like that idea. That's that's good. That's YouTube got YouTuber's gotta stick together, man, Thank you be careful with that. Yeah, I think it's actually a pretty trainy thing to say. Yeah, for sure. I like that you and and this is kind of a shame, but I like that you dropped the the bag test with water or whatever, you know, the because it's kind of subjective. It's, man, it needs to work because it's it's it's really a cool thought. But it's just almost impossible. We almost just have to just say, Okay, here's the width diameter of cut, and you can imagine what that's going to do. You know, that's what you have to do, because what I found, Okay, I mean I was determined to make that work. I tried milk jugs, I tried you know, soda cant soda bottles. I tried paper, you know, plasmic. Then I found online like the thickest, strongest zip lock bags known to man, and they weren't cheap, and so I got those and I was so excited about those, and I took the same and at first I thought it was working. I took the same broad head and I shot it in the exact same spot on two different bags, completely different time. I mean, like like many like longer on one and what it was is it's like what angle did the blades hit like where it was it rotated where two of the three blades were like on the bottom or were the two of the three blades on the top because there's more pressure, you know, the lower it is in the bag. And so like I just and I just go, this is it's it's fun. People do it in the video and it can look for you. Oh and then I had like a really small broadhead versus a giant cut one, and the small broad head like drained the bag so much faster. I Okay, this is like I can't do this anymore. So I I just because again, consistency is everything, and so I stopped doing that one. Yeah it makes sense. Man, what do you think about the consistency of the hey dot block? That's something so I've you know, done construction most of my life, and I know that since it's the final test and you're gonna destroy abroad it, it doesn't really matter, right. But at the same time, uh, those are like there's little pieces of stuff in that thing, and I always think about that every time I'll look at it, you know what I mean. Yeah, it's true. The cinder block you're talking about, right, what do you call it? Yes? Sorry, cinder block? Yeah, that might be a Southern thing. Yeah, hey do well, okay, maybe it's a casey thing, but it's kind of that material I guess of like the compressed concrete or whatever. Okay, yeah, you know I know that. And I know too. You know, if the arrow hits flush, I mean dead straight on, it's gonna do better than if it hits at the slightest different angles. So yeah, and the medium, you know, you look at it like you said, there's you know, if it hits on that little hard piece versus between those two little hard pieces, it's gonna do different. So yeah, it's it's not the best, but you know, as a zero penetration test, that's the overall goal is I'm not measuring in the depth of penetration in it. I'm just measuring the strength of the broadhead when it doesn't penetrate at all. So and and that's that's the whole goal of it. But you know what I mean. And so I have this broadhead box. I had my buddy construct one that I can Now I shoot the broadhead through this box. I put a top over it, so the arrow won't bounce out of it, and it hits the cinder block in the back of this box. And so it's about, you know, maybe three and a half feet long. So I'm thinking, well, this is really safe. Yesterday I shot a broadhead and it goes straight in and bounced out like the insert. It came off the insert, the epoxy whatever. It came out and the broadhead or the arrow came back exactly straight. I mean, there's no wobble and it flew right, I mean right past me. And I was like, okay, crap, not like I just I couldn't test anymore that day. I just was like, I don't know, I gotta do something. And so I was asking a buddy, you know, what to do, and he said he had built this little cage out of chicken wire, really compact wire, and made it like a like a ground blind with a thing to shoot through. When he was shooting through at a heart, I'm like, God, I don't know if I want but anyway that that's scared. But I've had him bounced and I felt like pieces of the center block or even pieces of the broadhead had come back and hit me. You know that nothing serious, but just a little bit. I wear glasses, but that was like the shaft coming straight back like that was weird. I mean, it has to thread this needle to come out of that broadhead box with no wobble. It was just but I don't know if God was given me a warning or state was trying to get You never know, right, yeah, you never know. Who knows. It might have just been some broadhead company that didn't like your testing process. That was just some of that. Do get some of that. So tell us this, John, what's um what are some of the newcomers that you've been impressed with in the broadhead world. That's a good question. Let me say this. You know, I I really respect pretty much any broadhead. And I don't mean that, you know, I mean in all sincerity. In my earlier testing, and that's another reason I should date it. I was I was too harsh with some of the broad hits. And here's a guy, you know, that's it's somebody's dream and they you know, they've done their best to create something. And I want to be respectful because the fact is most broadheads are going to be lethal with a great shot. I mean, that's just the reality. I'm I'm splitting hairs, and I'm you know, getting into these comparative data points, and they're they're important, like because if you can get ahead that holds up to a concrete block versus one that doesn't, why would you not want the one that can hold up to a concrete box. So, you know, it's a good thing. But I did what I decided to do was create data points, so I'm not having to give as much subjective you know, things like this is terrible or you know, I would never use that. I can let that out a point speaking for themselves. So I try to do that. And so I'm saying that saying, you know, any broadhead, I try to respect and try not too bad nothing and stuff. But um but I have been really surprised with some of them. The sever really surprised me. Like when I did the original two point oh, you know, I thought it was pretty good, didn't penetrate that well. The tip you know, wasn't that strong. But then they made some changes. And when I first shot that one point five in the concrete three times and it held up fine and through steel plate five times, I mean I haven't had any mechanical able to like, uh, an afflict or held up through steel plate I think once but and that was really impressive. But it's so rare that a mechanical can do that and did it five times. That was like one of those blow away Oh my gosh, this is revolutionary kind of a moment in broadheads. Then there's others like I decided to do some budget broadhead testing, like just cheap Amazon heads, and some are just cheap Amazon it. But there's there's other one is made by deep power. You know, go what's deep power? I don't even know. It doesn't it's not like deep powers, is it? Not like deer power? Deep power? One word d E P O W E R just sold an Amazon as Chinese company. But man, they made this this thing or this single piece construction three blades that that thing, man, it held up through steel. It was like it was as good as any I tested, and it was like it cost like five bucks each. On our channel, they sold out. I mean after I posted that video that the broadheads on Amazon sold out. Boom. I mean, they must love me over there and there that then they don't exist anymore. You can't get them now, No, they still do, Okay, now that they've made more in there back there. Yeah, a lot of people use them and and love I I couldn't believe it. I'm like, gosh, it shows you how much money is put into marketing and stuff like that, you know, because they're somebody can just like do it for really cheap. But anyway, sometimes a really cheap one will impress me like that. So yeah, those have been something like in terms of revolutionary design, Like, I don't know if I've seen a design like other than that, you know, maybe like the savuray Go that's kind of genius. The way those back arms locked. There's something that are really good, Um that I've been impressed with. I don't know if I've been like really shocked by some, but there's always some that I also like I was. I was shocked with, um, the uh what's it called Manchestry of Blank the brand pat that that was just so weak, you know, the blades you know, fell off in first shot three NBF or something that I was like, whoa that was. The Mega Meat was another one. I'm in the process of testing it right now. Somebody of view are sent in a packet. Was really grateful to test it. And man the first penetration test, the blades just bent terribly. I'm like, whoa, that rarely happens in that penetration test. That's you know, there's some that just are disappointing. Um anyway, there's nothing that it's really stood out as this is a game changer kind of thing. But then I test so many, like, it's hard to find something that's that sure. It all ends up being I believe this is we're monogamous. You might help me with it. All kind of bleans together, right, So it's kind of yeah, yeah, there is, you know, and there's a lot of similarity. A lot of times people say, well that looks like this head, Well that looks like they said, well, there's only so much you could do, you know, with a piece of metal in the end of an arrow, you know there's gonna be something that it looks like because you know, they they're all just I mean, there's thousands of broadheads and there's gonna be and then they do copy, you know, different things and stuff like that. But yeah, you know, I like testing to see how the different materials compared to each other in the different devil angles, and you know, I like seeing things like that. The most so let me let me ask you this. We we kind of need to wrap it up because I don't feel like when you take too much more of your time. But we really are appreciate you know, all your knowledge and stuff man and your friendship and just it's just cool what you do and so I really appreciate it. But so for the for the common guy, Um, you know, you've went through the gamut of you know, like you just said, Amazon heads as opposed to you know, the most expensive stuff out there, which I think those bishops are about as expensive as it get. And um, it's kind of a struggle to kind of understand where the value is on broadheads because you know, um you look at like a pack of rages that are in the thirties. Um, you know they kill stuff, but there single use like for sure, right, and I guess you can replace the blades on them if you wanted to, but it's you gotta do some stuff to it. Whereas you look at something that's a little bit more expensive like a you know, iron will or something like that, or or vp A and you know they sharpened in the in they you know, or just you can use them a hundred times, right, and then you got the Bishops on the high end in YadA YadA. So do you think that like the premium broadheads are for everybody and that's a good idea, or where do you think value is in broadheads? That's a really good question. And and I say that a lot, but that really is a good question. Maybe it's because it's true John, maybe that's the deal, but he but here's the deal with that is every value is a function of everybody's individual budget, and so it's it's it's really impossible to say, like people ask me all time, is this worth it? Is? You know, why would you pay that much for it? Like I heard one time that Bill Gates that he dropped a hundred dollar bill. It literally would not be worth his time to bend over and pick it up. You know, he's wasted three seconds and he would have made more money walking, you know during that Like, like, like everyone's budget so different. You could say the same thing about a car, is it really do you really need that truck? Because you could get this little car for twelve thousand dollars? You know, do you really need that Mercedes? And but you know everyone's pocket is you know, different depth and budget is different. You know, do you need that elite carbon bow or can you really get it done with you know, a best pro special kind of a thing. And and and that's why I like that there's choices. And so you know, to one person, they go, gosh, a hundred bucks for three broadheads. That's that's the same amount of kind of quote unquote money spent as someone else spending ten dollars for three broadheads in their according to their budget. So it's hard to really compare it. Is there a value? Is there an increase in quality with price most of the time yes, I mean not all the time, but most of the time there is. And so there's people that just go, I can't afford it, and I'm willing to pay extra money because for me, it's really not that much to get the best of the best, And so they do. And is it better? Yeah, again, because you go, gosh, if you can get a broadhead that shoots through steel play five times and looks brand new and goes into cinder block and sticks in it and comes out looking brand new versus one that falls apart, and that is going to make a difference in some hunting situations. It just is I mean I've had I remember a matter of fact, it was with an Exodus I shot you know, you saw I shot an Exodus into the center block, and I mean it comes out brand new. But there's a time I shot a hog from the back a long way. I hit the like the back hip right in the joint. That tip really bent, and I'm like, whoa, I've never seen one then, But it's because of the angle. It just hits at a different angle. So I go, if that happened with the Exodus, what would have happened with all these other heads? So you know, that's why there are times that it makes a difference. So if I always say, get the best broadheads your budget can afford. And but again there's there's broadheads that I'll rate higher that are way less expensive, and so like it, you know, to make it like at the end of every one of my videos, I have a score sheet where it it rates all these gives all these data points you can compare them to all the other broadheads. But then I decided this year to also come up with what I call the Lusk grade, Like I want to dummy down. Okay, here's a good you know, should I buy it. So I score it based on kind of my overall feel zero to ten golden arrows, and ten golden arrows means this is elite. Okay, this is really worth your money. So that way, you know, people can see. And there's there's heads that are super cheap they get ted golden arrows, and then there's some that are super expensive they get tent. But then there's some that are really expensive they get like seven and so you know, it's not always equated with chrice, but there is a difference by and large with that, is it? You know that big of a difference Again depends on your budget. You know, maybe it doesn't matter to you, and you go, yeah, you know I can afford that, I'll get it. So I say, get the best quality head your budget can buy, because I think the animals deserve us to be using the best equipment possible. Yeah, yeah, I think that's important. I think um ethics is a weird thing when it comes to killing stuff, because if you used I guess, you know, the ethics of humanity, uh people, would you might even end up the point where like, well maybe you shouldn't kill things, right, So, but that's not really where we operate. Um. So I think you kind of hit it on the head where it's like, you know, we're gonna kill things. This is a blood sport. It's a thing that happens, and it's not that that's our most favorite part of it, but it's a part of it. And we understand where our food comes from, and we understand that's just the way it goes. So let's just make it to where everyone can enjoy the process better, even the thing that has to die. Right, So enjoy is probably a weird way to put it. Way to put it, but you know, not suffer the most, right, And that's kind of and that's really what you've done with your extensive process is trying to inform people, to the best of your ability, how to make that happen. So, I mean it's it's you're doing some good work, John, It's cool stuff, man. So if people want to go check out your channel and see what you have going on, how do they find that? Yeah, just go to YouTube and look up lusk Archery Adventures. And like we were talking about playlists earlier, I have playlists for broadhead tests, bow tests, my own bow hunts. I've got I don't like I think over two hundred videos now and like sixty are are bow hunts, and like a hundred and twenty or broadhead tests or something like that. But I've got all kinds of different stuff there, and a lot of times they get a question, have you tested this head? Have you a matter of fact, every day on Facebook you can follow me on Facebook, Lost Garder Adventures, Instagram, lust Archery Adventures, and I do my best to respond to every question and stuff that I get, but a lot of times I get a question, have you tested this head? Have you tested head? All you have to do is go to YouTube, type in the name of the broadhead and then lusk and if you do that, then it's going to come up if I've tested it. So that's kind of a good way if somebody's wondering, hey, you know what about this head? Just type in the name of the broadhead and my name and then and then it come up if I if I've done test on it. But yeah, just check me out on YouTube, follow me in on Facebook, on Instagram, and I'm putting out you know, one or two videos a week now, and so you know, hopefully it's just providing helpful information to help people to harvest game more more effectively. Yeah. Absolutely, well link to all that stuff in the description below. And uh, man, we really appreciate your time today, John, Thanks John, thank you, thanks for having me. It's great, you know, catching up with you guys as well. I appreciate all that you're doing. You guys have a great show, great information, and it's an honor to be a part of it. Man. John got me wanting to shoot to sever this year. John's got me wanting to shoot. Man. Hey, He's got so much cool stuff going on, man, And like, I appreciate how scientific he is about things, and how I guess maybe it's not scientific because he doesn't we talked about this day because we're doing a really cool experience we can't tell you about right now, but um that will come out soon. Anyways, to use scientific method, you have to have a hypothesis. So what John is doing instead, it's just accumulating data, which I think is really important because it just lets us make our own hypotheses about what he is doing. And I think what's important that he really does a good job of is he remains a neutral on everything and gives everything a chance. And I don't know if he said this in the podcast or off podcast, but I'll go ahead and say it. John I said that back in the days, a little bit hard on stuff, but nowadays he thinks that everybodheads cool because somebody like worked at it and made it kind of tried to innovate. And I think that's it's neat man to appreciate the innovation of people and people just trying to do something new, you know, like, um, the old classic line is that, um, it's and I tried to invent the lightbulb, the whole bunch before you ever got it right, you know. And it's like, well, if you have to, you know, make a whole bunch of guitars that don't make any sound until you finally make a guitar that you know, has six strings and sounds really good. Like it took all those bad things to make the good things. It's okay if a broadhead it comes out and it isn't that great the first go around. I definitely would subscribe to that methodology. But I also have a question that what what about the company that is a conglomerate that just wants to make a lot of money and that's all they care about. I think that those things weed themselves out. That's what I think happened. They do, especially these days in this consumer market. But still I just feel like I'm like, man, sometimes some of these conglomerates need to understand that there's something wrong with this product, you know. So not that they're gonna understand that through the element channel or whatever, you know, but like, um, I think it's good too truthfully and maybe gracefully put out the fact that something is wrong with the product. I think it's okay, you know, but I definitely trying to get in here till I think I like what John says you wanted to put out there. No, I don't think so I do it. Do I have one that I don't know? I just thought maybe you would. Okay, No, no, no, I don't have anything. Um I mean, um, but I never experienced broad Head failure as far as I know. Yeah, I'm the one who's had an issue. And it's really just uh, it's not like a brand thing. It's more of a just mechanicals. I've had issues with mechanicals a little bit, but crazy I've shot a lot of deer with a mechanical and have not had a problem, and I'm hoping to do the same this year. I'm actually probably gonna be shooting mechanical most of the year, if not all the year this year. So I actually went and bought some gram reapers the other day. Uh, you and me both did. Um, and we you've got some severs somewhere. We might get some more severs to try out. And because I did shoot him in like, I like the idea of them. I remember when we talked to him a couple of years ago in our archery series podcast, actually almost exactly two years ago. I think, um, that was um, you know I opening to me, I was like, oh this is this sounds like good, you know, good theory here that they're it and out. So anyway, I'm gonna try a few things. But um, I just want I don't know, I just want a big I want to put a big hole in something, you know what I mean. So you bought into that marketing, bro, No, I know what you're saying. After it's time to slits that don't believe. I know, after having that situation last year where we all had had times that we didn't have good blood trails. Yeah, it's like it's not fun It's like, well, if I'm putting two holes in these things and they're not bleeding, still what am I doing? You know what I mean? Because when I was putting a massive hole in them and hitting lungs and stuff, they were bleeding. So even if it's just one hole. But anyway, there's there's so many different ways to think. I don't think that. I think the key here is to not think that your way is the only way, you know what I mean for most peop because I know there's guys out there listening going these guys are idiots or whatever, and they're probably not wrong. But maybe about broadheads, we should just be a little bit open to think that man throwing something sharp through the right spot, like John said, is pretty if ship most of the time. Yeah, I think that you could kill a lot of deer with a field point. You said that before. I think, man, I think that, like there's a lot. I mean, if you put a put a hole in the diaphragm, it does not work. Therefore they can't breathe anymore. I ain't that hard, Yeah, you know, but quarter a while. But the problem is is that you gotta deal with blood trails, and that's why John is so big on blood letting, you know, because it's it's pretty important to find him. It's kind of the crux of the whole thing. Yeah, it definitely is, man, That's that's kind of um, it's definitely a big part of it, you know, and hopefully hopefully we you know, it's one of those things just there's so many variables that, um, when it comes to shooting a deer. Um, you know, it could go right or it could go wrong. And I mean you killed your deer dead and dead or in the door knob last year, you know what I mean, but personality, But it still was um the next morning before you all found that, almost midday before you all found that dear you know, and so, and he didn't go that far right, he's like a hundred and seventy yards or something like that straight line. He was like probably ninety. Yeah, yeah, he's kind of ran a big loop or whatever. Blood ran kind of out and so it's just like, man, there's so many variables. I think we just have to think that, um, you know, do the best we can, make the best decision, you can make the best shots you can, and then just hope that it uh, pans out for you. You You know, absolutely, man, I think that's right. And uh, there's a lot of m M I guess points to be made about different broad heads and this and that and the other. But I really think that people overthinking on white till quite a bit. I think that um, there in hunting, there you will always have a situation sooner or later where something doesn't go right, and that is the name of the game. If you don't like that, you should shoot a three hundred bag and rifle season and you will always kill him no matter what, no matter where you hit that. I promise it's it's for real. But like in archery hunting, that's the way it goes, you know. And so I don't really like the whole like or subscribe to the idea of like, well, what's your backup plan or whatever it is that that you know, ranch troll says all the time, you know, like, um, I don't know, it's just not it's not me, you know, And whatever works for each individual is fine, But um to me, I'm like, well, just make it right the first go around as good as you can and hopefully you don't need the backup plan that often. And and I'm kind of coming full circle on things. I'm gonna shoot a mechanical a little bit this year too. I still like my fixed blades, um, but I like, I think you said this before, um, and it's it's good wisdom, Like the more blades you have and the water you're cut is the higher probability you have of nicking something that's really important, you know. So, I mean it's kind of that simple you think about you shoot a deer or an elk or whatever, and we've seen it before. They hit that that high and back hit and the thing drops in like fift my first elk. Yeah, yeah, dude, I mean that vein isn't I'm on an elk. It's pretty big, but yeah, it's not that big, right, So I mean we're talking something that you know, if you were to take a blade is wide as that elk, or almost as Why is that elk? You know what I mean, say two foot blade or whatever. You could still miss that thing, you know what I mean. It's crazy that you could throw it through that and still miss that thing. And so I mean it's a very particular spot. So the bigger the blade, but you have a lot worse chance of missing that thing with a two foot blade. So that's the kind of the idea is like you know what I mean, you the bigger the blade, the better chance that you have a hitting something that's uh that pours blood or whatever. So yeah, I think it's uh kind of the method I'm gonna subscribe to. And I have in the past shot a pretty big mechanical and I want to do that again this year, especially since we're going to get bows the day before we go to Nebraska. Oh man, that's funny. Well, hopefully it's at least two days before that way we have enough time to screw your sights on and stuff. I'd hate to have to shoot one just instinctive shoting, you know what I mean? Killed at sixty two yards for the brand new boats. That sounds like a good title, man. Yeah, I love those TV episodes. They're like, yeah, we just got in these new bows. You know it just came out November first. We're gonna sign him in here at the outfitter and number on the go. You know's we watched one in Turkey season? Was it this year? You know? I was last year, um where the dude got a bow on the way out to this hunt. Oh yeah, and then shot made a bad shot and I can't remember. I guess they did end up finding it or something. Who knows who killed it with a rifle or whatever back you know. Yeah, anyway, Um, guys, this is this is uh, this is the dog days. This is the time of year where, um, it's hot, it's hard to do stuff outside. But the deer putting some horn on their head right now, they're starting to A lot of them are gonna finish up probably in the next few weeks and on their heads, and uh, I think that it's a good time for us to start, uh kind of finalizing our our gear and that kind of thing on the inside of the house in the A C. And then uh, you know, it's a good time. You're gonna be pumped because it's uh, it's really not long. I mean, if you're a if you're gonna do some western hunting or early season white till, you're looking at like about a month until you start traveling to go do that stuff, you know. So it's it's exciting, man, I'm really you can't wait to see what this year holds. We've got a lot of exciting stuff that uh, we may have up our sleeve to try and to do and to look at. We got a new Boss Buck decoy in so that's another thing we might give a try this year. We think, um it could be very advantageous on a few properties that we've hunted in the past. So I'm pretty pretty pumped man. And it's a long way till November. We gotta kill a few deer between now and then, for sure, for sure, So anyway, we'll be thinking about that. And you guys need to remember this is your element, living it

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