00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler and this is Case. So you're listening to the Element podcast. Little bit tune on what is happening to all you people? I am just sitting here on the shawls of Lake Fork looking at a deer mount staring me down. People. Uh, it is the time of year where we hide inside as much as we can. I worked outside until about eleven today and then after that it is a c time. I'm here with Tyler Jones, of course, and we have been discussing all types of stuff today. We have been talking about all the cute clothes we wear, all the awesome pieces of technology we have these days. But really, um, I say it kind of jokingly, but at the same time, we are trying to push and get some new merchandise together for us all to wear for lifestyle stuff for this fall. So be looking for some of that stuff to come out pretty soon. Well I shouldn't say pretty soon, sometime before the first day of fall season. Yeah, what is the first day of falls And in Texas it's about November twenty six. Yeah. You know. Growing up, I um kind of had this idea of like, uh, a winter that started like in November and win all the way until like February, but fall didn't really happen, and I think it's still that way. Really, it was supposed to be this time where it's like cool outside and there's orange and red and yellow leaves falling, but everything just turns brown brown because it dies. It's actually just concealed by the drought. I think it would be something with spring, summer, drought fall thanks kind of winter. But anyways, we're gonna kind of get some stuff together, maybe come up with a couple of cool new T shirts, expander hats and all that kind of stuff. And uh, really it's just so that we get to wear some cooler stuff and maybe y'all can reap the benefits if you want to. I'm actually getta embroider. I got two blank hats, then we get embroidered, and I'm gonna get them done like nobody else can get bats. Yeah. But so before we go on with more nonsense, we do have a pretty cool guest for the podcast today. He's just kind of a um, I don't know, it's a good Texas and Elsewhere to just kind of deer podcast, right, Uh, Tyler, who are you talking to? Slick? Nick Hellickson? Slick Mick. I bet you that was his name run around King Ranch. Yeah, Mick is a esteemed wildlife ballist and and uh is really into growing trophy white tails. That's the thing he does. He's got he's done an eye. What does in Texas? Does it all over? So it has some cool kind of historic information about the King Ranch, which if you're unfamiliar with it, it's a giant, almost one million acre ranch in kind of south Gulf Coast, Texas that grows some huge deer. So they said, I I heard that if you took the fence and stretched it out from the King Ranch northward, it would go to Boston. That's eastward. Well it's east and yeah, where would he go? Winnipeg if it went straight north. I have no clothes. I don't know what a fag sounds like a made up place? It is good, Yeah, yeah, it's that. Actually, you remember those coke commercials where the polar Bears and the penguins all played together. Those still come around every Christmas. I don't watch TV, so I don't know. Actually I don't know that because three years ago was last time I had a t V too, But I just figured that they're still coming around. I don't know, it could be canceled. Who knows. At this point, I can't trust anything, that's right, man. Uh. I'm not gonna divulge too much further into the cancelation stuff. But anyways, Um, there is um what someone consider a national holiday approaching soon. Personally, Uh, in my family, we try our best to not celebrate about near anything unless our family makes us so. Um, just because you're you don't like black pepper and your potatoes, I don't know, it's just holidays just just goofy to me. Sometimes I just don't understand the concept of like appreciating your family more on certain days. Uh. Yeah, And I don't. First of all, this is a whole another deal and probably not in the hunting spectrum of podcasts. But like, I don't know if we're gonna do Santa man. I really don't we Uh we have and I won't go into wi we don't we Uh we have enlightened our two kids for sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, anyway, anyway, I thought you were going July four here, but you're actually going to different holiday. Yeah. I mean, I don't know July fourth is what it is. Either way, I don't like to seleprate that because it's so hot on July four, I'll sing that one uh song God Bless America, goodness that drives me crazy, crazy, I lose my mind. Uh. They don't ask me to leave those days. But anyway, Uh, the one that is fast approaching many of you listening, probably will participate in the wreath the benefits of his Father's Day, right, so all you dad's out there. I didn't say dad bods, but Dad, those are two different things. Um, there is a holiday approach, and I guess it's this Sunday, right, I think so. I don't really know for sure. I believe it is. Um. One of the things that happens around Father's Day is that brands in the out or world like to run sales and stuff. And UM, it's a cool thing because it's an opportunity for you to a break on some stuff. And Uh, a couple of folks we work with um are doing that deal. So on X is doing a thirty percent off. Is it just the premium or the fifty state or is it all of it? It is a thirty percent off code. Uh, Dad, Dad will remember one Dad? Just Dad? Yeah, Dad, I don't misspell it spelled backwards. Nothing like that save new subscribers. Yeah, so okay, so you have to be a new subscriber. So if you haven't subscribed on X, head over to their website check out what they got going on, and you'll get thirty percent off of the Hunt app. That doesn't include the surfing app and all the other actually exactly. Yeah, don't don't get on the you know, National Shellfish Dot Org on X app or whatever it might be. But the on X Hunt app is where you need to be, all right, And that guy's honestly you hear us talk about all the time whether we're you know, giving a direct plug or just using it daily because that's what we do. Literally during this podcast with Mick, I was on on X. Okay, I had to figure out where exactly the King Wrench borders were. Uh and uh, it's it's super helpful in this state or wherever. You know, we do the fifty state deal and uh, man, I mean it is nice to be able to just turn the Michigan layer on when you go to scout in Michigan. You know, I bet I'm on on X at least three hundred days a year at least, at the very least for sure, I will be right there with you. And the ones that I'm not, it's probably because I don't have cell phone service, so I don't really And there's a cure for that too. You can save offline maps, so there you go. Another one is Cruiser Saddles. So so they've got a teen percent off for their dad Father's Day. The promo code is and I don't know if this is all caps or caps sensitive, but it looks like it's all caps, says Cruiser for dad. How do you spell cruiser? Casey see you cr c R u z r R. But it's not. It's it's the dove a ar. It looks like a smiley face c R A u z R for the number four dad, And that would get you a ten percent off the entire store, which they actually have just got a bunch of the new platforms platform singer platforms, so they're like hot off the press shipping those things out right, are they are? And they are bad to the bone. You know, Cruiser has some cool hats. Um, so if you're cats cats, if you're not wanting to, if you already bought you a nice saddler, platform. You can go get a hat over there for fairly uh inexpensive. That looks real good. But I don't know if they thought about this, But I have another design they can do. So. I know they kind of have like the bold print or whatever for their UM logo, But what if they went with like a script in soul, but then for the U they put an actual smiley face. Would that be cool? I'll talk to Chad and let him know what it's time to rebrand. That's what they're gonna do, the smiley face still yeah, yeah, but I think it's a good idea. I'm glad you like that thinking about that stuff right now. Um, So, we don't have a ton going on in the white to world right now. I'm gonna be completely honest with you guys. Oh m hmm. If I am being honest, we have a lot going on, but it's all digital. We're really busy planning, hunch, really busy just working out logistics. We're gonna head up and do maps, gout challenge stuff. Challenge. I said it that way because we're headed to Pennsylvania, Ohio, maybe Indiana and Michigan, and we're gonna go up there and just invade all y'all's territory and scout some white tails out. Um, if you have questions or anything, or you want us to look at a spot or whatever and you live in that, you let us know. But we've been planning for that, really excited about that. We are planning all the uh Element crew hunts and stuff. We got some stuff going early season, and stuff going mid season, late season, and all this stuff going right now. But um, in the field is not real busy, Tyleran, Well, you and I have kind of determined that summertime show cameras can be fun but not very rewarding when it comes to actually translating it into taking deer. We were discussing this this morning. We had trail camera video of a buck eating per Simmons from late August or early September or something last year, and then we got or actually I had an encounter with this deer about two miles from there in December. So that can just show you how I mean, it doesn't do you to go right if you get sat and waste your time the trail comers dount in the summer. Now, given it's fun, I love getting those summertime pictures if you have your own private property, it could be a little bit different than that too, if you have more holding capabilities or I'll be frank, Like, the stuff I learned from putting show cameras out is way more valuable sometimes than the actual photo data that we get back, you know what I mean. Like when we're out sweating, stomping around in late July putting out cameras or something. Uh, I feel like we should. We learn a lot about properties at that time of year. Yeah, and then you also um get immunity to all this stuff. I got about that, that's right, man. The first I forgot about that crazy thing is they didn't shut it down that time. Put us in so indoors for sure during Zeke's right, because Mosquito is a real Yeah, for real, you keep masking just to lose. Actually you can actually see them. Uh yeah, I'm I think you and H. T H Are going out of state pretty soon to hang cameras, aren't you. Yeah. I think I'm gonna go in spirit, uh so the spirit inside of me, and he is, uh, he's getting really excited about putting out some cameras up north. And uh, I don't blame him and I don't know, he's still young enough to drink regular coke. I guess, so, you know, I and another time in place, I might go do that. But right now, maybe I'm overly confident. But I feel like that is not going to be the best place, our best way for me to spend my time efforts, babysitter time, all that during the summer, going and doing something like that. But hey, you know, Umm, like I said, I might be over confident in my abilities to kill deer in a fall, so who knows, but I feel like, um, spending time understanding, do your habitat understanding, do your movement patterns understanding maps and how all that stuff correlates. I don't know. We just we just feel pretty confident about our ability to maps. Got a place and figure out a place to go hunt as opposed to go in there and stomp around and get just sweat nasty. So ye, I know That's how I feel to me, And I'm like, I don't know, maybe I'm just getting that mature buck betty, like I'm just trying to I'm just trying to think, Uh, it's pretty hot out there, Like I literally you said you were out till about eleven today. I was out for eleven minutes and I sweat it so bad. Dude. It isn't nasty out there. Um. But I'm the same way, man. I think, like, you know, I feel like when I look at stuff on the map, I can I can write stuff off pretty quick and start to find things. And I'm not you know, I don't know, man, I had a good year last year, great year, but like maybe this year, I don't. I don't know. We'll see, but I do. I mean, I feel pretty confident and we're gonna hunt a lot so more days. You're in the stand there, and I think that if you just I really like what you said about crossing places off. You know, if you sometimes, if you can sit here and look at a map on a computer screen, you can tell yourself, Okay, here's a one hour radius, here's a two hour radius, whatever it might be. I can hunt anything in this general area. You can really narrow it down to some really good stuff. Or as opposed to when you drive somewhere like to go scout and her hang cameras or whatever, it's kind of hard to get much more than you know, thirty minutes from the place you drive to you know, because I mean, you know how it goes. Oh, we're just gonna hop in here and you know, hang a camera right quick. Four hours later you're walking out and you're tired and you're looking for a water burger. You know, it's just it's it's a it's a much different deal. But I think that we do not need to undervalue boots on the round. I mean, it's the thing that we're gonna do a ton of this year. But I think that and I'm not calling Hunter dumb or anything in this deal as well, but I think that, um, what I would like for y'all take from this at least is that the map scotting you do can help you out so much when it comes to actually spending your time wisely once you get to the boots on the ground section. I think we spent a lot of time on the ground in twenty seventeen eighteen, and I think that, well, we learned a lot, right, But I think we also, um now, could learn a lot from the maps before we did that that would have saved us some time. Um that we couldn't have learned from the maps back then because we just weren't quite as versed in digital mapping, you know, and truth be told, probably like if I had to move to South Carolina or something, I might need to go do more of the boot stuff, yeah, because it's different or like you know, Maine or something. You know, but there's still some stuff that you know, you can kind of have that applies across the board. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and and to be honest, like I don't hardly regret any walking around that happens before about March in Texas. Like I have a blast walk in the woods in January and February. Yes, yes, I love it, Like it's one of my favorite things to do. But this time of year, um, I have lots of regrets, especially from or whatever that year was. We did so much hand in the summer nine team was pretty bad too, was well, we didn't do a ton of it, but we did that one big day where we like really got sick. Oh that was like dangerous. It was like ninety eight and extremely human and it got like it was the weirdest thing. But it was like probably that I was having the most difficulty breathing because of like heat and heat stress I guess that I've ever had. And I'm straight up been on hundred forty degree turf, you know, working out in the college football We were in probably about as good as shape as you and I have been in together at that point in how to work. That was like August and we're fixing the head to the heelo on the fift September, you know, so we were getting it and maybe that's part of the two. Maybe we're already a little bit exhausted, but yeah, maybe, yeah, yeah, it's it can definitely, I don't know. We're just trying to spend their time wisely because uh, the older we get year by year, the wiser we get, hopefully and uh hopefully it'll help some relapses from time to time, but definitely definitely, but uh, I think that, uh it's good to learn lessons and it's good to be able to kind of draw inferences from other people's experiences. And that's kind of one of the reasons I'm excited to get Mick on the podcast today because he's been around Big deer Ton and he's got to hunt him a bunch too, And like, what a better guy to talk to than a guy who's studied them and hunted them, you know, Like, um, most of us are you not included? We have to find a place to get income elsewhere so that we can support the things that we love to do. He figured out how to like get paid to research dear so that he can kill them pretty much, you know. So anyways, he's got a lot of cool stuff to talk about. This really is just kind of a chat and kind of um, we didn't really have a lot of direction as to like we're gonna talk about book betting, you know, with with this podcast, But I really enjoyed it because yeah, it's just like a historic thing with the king ranch work that he's done. And then of course, like talking to anybody who's put their hands on a one nine a couple of times in their life, it's probably got something to learn from them, for real. So you got anything else? All right? So now on the phone, I've got Dr Mick Ellickson. Mick, what are you up to today? Man? Well, I'll just home doing office work in front of the computer. Uh well that's uh exciting, yeah, not really. What is the office work? Is it have to do with deer? Yeah? Always uh, always doing something related to deer. That's that's my profession and my passion. So pretty lucky. Yeah, how did you how did you had that become a passion for you? Well, I grew up in north central Iowa, uh, with a love for being outdoors, either hunting, fishing, trapping, hunting, fishing, or hunting, you know, one of those seven or eight things I was always been doing. So uh my first stop, though, was was peasant hunting. And uh then in high school I picked up a bow and arrow for the first time and started bow hunting white tails. And I had shotgun hunted them before that, but once I started bow hunting and chasing white tails and small woodlots of north central Iowa, I'm only just was so intriguing and and so challenging, um that I you know, I just forgot about everything else and and don't into deer from then one. That's awesome, that's uh. You know. I was actually going through some of my file, some files that my mom has kept over the years of uh just you know, my paperwork from school or artwork or whatever. And I know of always loved deer and wildlife, but I didn't realize like how how much I loved it when I was younger. I found some stuff from a long time ago. I was young where it's just like this immaculate picture of deer and raccoons and birds, and like its no telling how long it took me to draw this stuff, you know, like it would have taken some focus for you know, a nine year old me to to do that. And and uh, I started kind of I was going through this stuff, kind of laughing at myself, like I can't believe this is Uh, I've kind of forgotten that how much I love these things, you know, Like so it's uh, it's definitely something that's hard to explain. Um, you know once you get older, like you know sometimes where it came from and why you have this passion. But you know, you're turned into educational experience as well. You you have a I guess a doctorate that's allowed you to kind of work in the biology field. Correct. Yeah. I got a bachelor's degree from Iowa State and Fisheries widlife biology UM, graduated way back, moved to Kingsville, Texas to pursue a master's degree and range and wildlife management. Finished that in ninety one, and then went to the University of Georgia to get a PhD and forced resources with the emphasis on wildlife management. And for both my master's project and my doctorate project, I worked with whitetail deer in South Texas. Do they talk about UM in that forestry program? They talk about Mesque country much about Mesquite Country. No, but that's where my research took place. You know, Georgia UM is the School of Forestry is very well known, but it's it's for timber management, forest management UM mostly with piny woods, you know. And coming from Iowa and then also from South Texas living in Georgia for three years, it was a kind of a really unique experience coming from the Midwest and then also from South Texas, it was very different. Do you know anything about over there? Uh? Yeah, I know that, Yeah, I was. I was kind of in jest there. But um do you you know anything about the black Beard dear the black Beard deer. I know that there was a monograph written about him, um that in my library. But other than that, no, Yeah, Well, there's a I guess an island is it black Beard Island? Toss of the coast of Georgia there, Yeah, yeah, so, and they're kind of a really small deer subspecies or whatever you wanna call it. I guess we joke about putting him for the draw for that hunt from time to time and just be kind of a cool experience but unique. Yeah, we all also hate mosquitoes terribly. It looks like a pretty skeetered up place down there. Uh. Did you work closely with Randy de Young any? Yeah, you know, not for my masters or my my PhD. But after I became the one of the biologists for the King Ranch, I worked with Randy while he was getting his doctorate degree from Mississippi. His three study areas was the King Ranch. So I was directly involved with helping Randy the CT data and the King Ranch related to uh, the DNA work that he did. That's cool. We had him on hundreds of episodes ago for to talk about parentage of whitetailed deer and genetics and stuff. It was, it was, it was a good talk. So that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, his his research with some of the most groundbreaking research it's ever ever been done on white tails for sure. Yeah. So, um, you know, I guess was it was it Caesar Kleiberg that brought Neil Guy into the King Ranch? Is that right? Yeah? That's the in the in the nineteen thirties King. I mean I knew guys were introduced to King ranch. Yes, that's right. Yeah, so that was something you obviously probably had to work with, um or work around or against or I don't know how what your feelings are in in regards to that and how they interact with the white tailed deer in that area. Huh. There is some some overlap, some dietary overlap. So there's a little bit of competition between neil guy and like tail deer. But but for the most part, they're non competitive, and so they're the two species worked fairly well together, you know. Um. But yeah, I mean from a pure troll deer managing the perspective, you'd rather not have anything else on the landscape that's competing with white tails in any any form past. So yeah, is there you know, I know, like with hogs, we see a lot of times that hogs will kind of be dominant around dear to the point of taking some of the like preferred habitat and or betting uh habitat, and you know, they'll they tend to kind of shift deer around when they come through and their sounders and um, is that something that happens with Neil Guy and deer in that relationship. I've seen them grays fairly to each other. Um. I think I think dear tolerate Neil Guy probably better than they tolerate general hogs. Um. Yeah. Every any time a hog comes through, white tails usually you know, move off. And that happens with Neil Guy too, but not to the degree that it does with with hogs in my experience. That's neat so um. You know, I guess as the chief biologists there on the King Ranches, that does that make you or did that make you, um, only concerned with whitetail deer um in the production or do you have to think about managing Neil Guy as well and other species? Yeah? You know, the King Ranches more known for it's bob white quail population than anything else. And so I did a lot of things related to bib blae quail management, probably as much of that as I did whitetail deer management while with the King Ranch, but not it was all game species that we worked with, for sure. We had a helicopter surveys where we founded just white tail deer, but quail, cubbies, no guy um, you know, And so we we monitored the game species, and then we also monitored to a degree some of the non game species on the rank. So you're you're monitoring the species, but you probably, I mean, did you did you have to develop management plans for each species as well? We did. I mean, we said harvest rates for the for the less ease on the ranch, and for the family members and their own hunting club. We we set bag limits and we said, um, you know, harvest goals um for quill, for Neil Guy, for whitetail deer, all of the above. How do you like what precedence has been set in Neil Guy management? How do you like how do you know what should be taken or what should be there? And then like what and obviously that's um, there's a goal that has to be in mind as well. And where does that goal come from? Does it come from the family or is that from you? And the families involved? For sure in the management decisions, um, But we also the Neil Guy management, it was influenced by the cattle management on the ranch because there's a lot more competition between cattle and No Guy than there is between no Guy and and white tail deer and and the overall goal for the ranch while I was there was to reduce the nil Guy densities, and so I implemented minimum cow neil Guy harvest UM harvest prescriptions for all the less ease on the on the divisions where nil Guy occurred UH. And then we also implemented a minimum bowl harvest quotas UH. And then we also increased the amount of commercial hunting that was done for neil Guy. And we also increase the amount of the U s d A approved meat harvest for no Guy that was done too. Yeah. Well, so I mean, were you able to put like an economic value on how um I guess how neil Guy compared to the cattle production on the ranch and in which one was more valuable economically? Yeah, you know, with the nil Guy we had ah, we sold commercial nil Guy hunts um that we're guided by King Ranch staff and so obviously the ranch received income from those hunts, but it was not anywhere in the same ballpark or the same league as the as the money generated from the cattle. There there's no comparison between the two cattle. And I guess most of anything from nil gut, most of the revenue is from like guided what Tuci hunts, right, and that where people are making the most money. U. You know, there were some wally mammothons that we did. So why why have neil guy? If the if the cattle just you know, outweighs, they can benefit. Yeah, if you asked the cattle person, he would he wouldn't be able to answer that. He said, I don't know why we have right now. You know, exotics offer a great additional recreational opportunities outside of the normal fall hunting season. You know, because in Texas you can hunt um species of no species of exotics, including no Guy three hundred and six or five days a year, twenty four hours a day, you know, seven days a week and hunt them year round. And so they provide a lot of recreation outside of the standard hunting season, you know. And so that's a big benefit there. Um and you know, now everything's about how much money you make off things either, right, and so um, they were originally stocked on the ranch. I mean, Caesar's thinking was that there wasn't any other species, any other big you know. Um, well there were cattle, but in between cattle and deer, there weren't any other species on the ranch. And he felt like the Neil guy filled a niche that was open between cattle and deer, and that's why they were chosen and that they were stopped there. You know, I'm with you on the you know that not everything is about money, but I just feel like when it comes to a big ranch in Texas, there's a lot of things about money. So that's kind of why he wasn't actually born in Texas, because Texas wouldn't say everything's about money, you know. Yeah, well I was born in Texas, and I would agree with you obviously. Um, bottom line matters on a private, privately owned ranch, and finances are important, I mean, and so the cattle and the wildlife needed to pay the bills for the ranch, right So that's still working cattle ring today is because of the money that it generates. Right. So, Um, that was very important. Yeah. You know, one of the things that we talked about quite often on the show is the value of private land conservation because you know, I'm sure you are very versed in the whole public land, uh. I guess advocacy nowadays and rightfully show so it's a great thing. But I mean, Texas, of course is the poster child for what you can actually get done on private land. Yeah, the public access to that is not there, but just that the existence of wildlife is very important, right, Like how how was the King Ranch able to, um, you know, do such a great job, I mean outside of just employing you right, like, you know, like what are some of the key factors in you know, conservation of wildlife species doing so well there? And the folks that King Ranch, way before I got there, were really innovative. They were the first private private ranch to hire a full professional biologist and bell aiment in the nineteen forties, and nobody had done that before then. So they recognized way back then the value and the importance of managing for wildlife. And uh they started leaf hunting, hunting or leasing out the hunting rights on the Encino Division in the nineteen seventies, the late nineteen seventies, and and by the time I was I arrived on the scene at the King Ranch, they had they were leasing out around four hundred thousand acres of the ranch to about forty different least groups and uh um yeah, and and the revenue generated from that is pretty substantial. Yeah, I'm sure. Can you talk real quick about for those who aren't familiar with the King Ranch, what what the acreage is and what it's like and and some of the division sizes and how that all works. Yeah, the King Ranch founded by Richard King. UM. It's eight hundred and twenty five thousand acres at one point is over a million acres. UH. It's now and has been for several days that at around eight d five thousand acres. It's spread across seven counties along the Gulf Coast of Texas south of Corpus Christi. UM. There are four divisions to the ranch. Two of the divisions are contiguous. The northern divisions Sanegor, Trudis, and Laurellas are connected to each other UM. And then the two southern divisions are separate, the Normous Division and the Incina Division. The Incana Division, smallest of the four divisions UM, if I remember correct, lates around a hundred and ten thousand acres. That one division, then the Laurellas Division, which also connects to the Santegor Trudist division. But the Laurellas Division I thinks around three hundred seventy seven thousand acres and it literally goes from the city limits of Kingsville to the city limits of Corpus Christie. It's everything in between those two cities on the north side of Baffo and Bay. That's cool. If you haven't driven that highway and you're listening, it's it's that's quite a way. It's eighteen or nineteen miles. And on that division there's also an eighty thousand acre road crop field. Man, it's nuts. So, I guess I don't know if I'm using the right terminology, So I'm sorry, But is there a you know, a habitat difference in these you know, I'm sure that when these divisions were created, it was probably a lot more for cattle or whatever, you know, But is there like, do each have their own separate biome or there you know, their individual characteristics that you you know, approach with a different management idea. Yeah, definitely. The two northern divisions have a lot more clay in the soil, look like contents, you know, it's real heavy loam clay soil for laurellas, which is why it's also the good farm ground. Um. None of the other three divisions are road crop farm except for a small part of the Santator truitives. Division. The two southern divisions are within the coastal sandplane sheet, and so they're they're a deep sandy soil um and you know, some of the world's best quail hunting on those two divisions because of that sand sheet and that deep sand um. Yeah, so there's there's big habitat differences among the four divisions. So the sand provides um brush like sand plums and stuff like that for the quail or what's the why is the sand and the sandy sheet soil area. The brush the native natural brush occurs in mots and mock pattern naturally with a lot of grass covering between the months, and the two northern divisions have become rush choked. I mean, it's the landscape is heavy thick brush. You know, it's not ideal quail habitat. But the two southern divisions because of that sandsheet, it's naturally open um different brush plants that are uh and and that mot pattern is just a natural pattern. That's how the landscape has maintained itself. And and it's a lot better quail habitat as a result. And the sandy soil any kind of disturbance like action from cows that soil disturbance promotes weeds, and so there's a just a flush of wheat growth every spring after every rainfall event, there's a flush of weeds that that are great. Most of those weeds are great seed producers for quail and and and also acting sects for quail and for the quail chicks to eat, you know. Um, and so it's it's just it's phenomenal quill habitat that same country is sure. So at eight five thousand acres and one Mick Hellickson, how like you you can't I mean, there can't be a way that by yourself you're able to do this. I mean what kind of team surrounds you there? And how do you? How do you? I mean just the paperwork involved in the different studies and stuff that you're doing, I mean, how do you keep up with all that? Yeah, it was a lot of work. I worked commonly worked seventy hour work weeks, you know, and then during the hunting season with guid and duties added to everything. Uh, you know, some sometimes work twelve thirteen, fourteen days straight to you know. So it was it was a lot of work for me. But now we had a we had a thanks to my boss, Hitch Thompson, and while manager for the King Ranch at the time I was there, he was the first that hired me um. You know, he allowed me to hire on a couple more biologists that that um that worked for us. We had a biologist that handled the family country. Primarily, we had a biologist for each of it, for for two of the divisions each and then we also made it mandatory, a mandatory requirement at all of the forty leases that each individually hired either a full time, part time or consulting professional wildlife biologists themselves. So when we did our population monitoring like the hel Conter service for for the buck harvest prescriptions, we we had provided those two lesses and we required that the biologists on TAFF that they collect some really detailed harvest data that allowed us to monitor the effectiveness of our managing program and to monitor the progress and make comparison. You know, we had full Luna Crockett tours and every buck harvested, we had front incisor teeth pulled from every buck harvested for sebent um annually. Aging after the hunting season, we had every deer had to be had to be way to provide either the live weight or field dressed weight. I mean, we implemented a lot of harvest measuring requirements for quail too, in addition to deer and also nil guy, and we expected releases follow that, you know, and that's why we made them made the requirement that they hire biologists. So if you can imagine there was about forty forty or fifty professionally trained wildlifile just working on Came Ranch each year that I was there. That's resultable that. So, so one of the things you're gonna encounter after you have been doing some deer and data acquirement through the years, is what do you do with all these pictures all this information that you get? Uh? And you know, actually Tyler's on the phone while I go and out or no, it's my desktop because I had Windows everywhere or not Windows? Sorry what are they called on max icons? Okay? So, but uh, and I had trail camera pictures and videos and all kinds of stuff on there. But guys, there is a new solution. Okay. Moultrie Mobile on their app now has cloud storage. Okay, so you can take any of your trail camera pictures that you get from your Ultrie new Delta sal camps they just came out with, or an old one or whatever, and store that stuff on the mobile app on the Moultrie Cloud all right. I don't know if you'll understand what that means, but like you take the digital copy and you send it out there into space and it stays there until you need it. Okay, that's the cloud, all right. So it makes organization way easier because you don't have to keep up with this stuff on your computer on a hard drive, on the SD cards that you don't know what to do with. Instead, it's just in this one place on the Multree mobile app. So go check that out and go to multri mobile dot com. So you're you're guiding responsibly. Is that responsibility that comes with essentially are you taking people and saying, hey, these are dear that you cannot shoot and you know, are you familiar enough with the deer that that's that's the case, or why why are you guiding? As well as a biologist, we had areas of the ranch that were that were designated as commercial hunting areas, and so these areas were neither leased um nor were they hunted by the family. They were they were for commercial deer hunting only and so, and we needed that revenue to fund the waldlife department, you know, the and to the ranchers credit, they wanted they wanted the ranch to be run like a business, and so they wanted it to be self supporting. And and so when Butch became the wildlife manager, he had the foresight to expand the wildlife department, added on three full time while a biologists. We had an internship program. Well we needed money to pay for that, right and so and and the couldn't be from raising the least fees, I mean that the money went directly to the family. But so he expanded the commercial hunting operation too, and everybody's responsibility was to assist with the guiding. You know, everybody wants to hunt during the peak of the rut, right, and so everybody was working really hard then doing hunts and creating myself, including Butch Um. And then in the off season, we're guiding Neil Guy hunts um on the family country because the family members, you know, they're not interested in shooting a whole bunch of Count Neil guide to reduced your death the new guy population, So we went in there during the off season outside of the quail and in season and commercially harvested neil guy, you know kind of net. So you're touching there on you know, the white tail stuff and that I know that's kind of what your passion is. So we've talked some about you know, the ranch and stuff. But can you kind just give inside as to why that brush country is such great habitat and resources for white tail deer and why why you're able to grow really kind of giant bucks. Uh what's the theory? Uh, you might be you you can tell me with this better than I can. But there's the theory that things get larger as they leave the or you head north away from the equator, right, and so that country down there is kind of an anomaly because you're able to grow large deer both body and antler size, you know, kind of uh in an anomaly area. You know what I'm saying. I'm not putting this together very well, but yeah, well your friend is Bergman's rule general rule of thumb. Yeah, that body size increases as you move north from the equator. Uh, it's thought to be for heat confirmation, right, the surface of the body area, the surface to body size ratio um changes for the heat cous privation, and so South Texas being a lot closer to the equator than Canada and the Midwest, you know, you would expect the deer to be a lot smaller UM, and the body sizes are smaller um native Texas here. I mean most of them a sure bucks on King Ranch with field dressed between a hundred and twenty five hundred fifty pounds. So they're not big body necessarily, but they're big antlerd um on average. And and the biggest reason for that is because of the the tremendous age structure. There's just you know, on the King Ranch while I was, percent of the population was nap of mature bucks that were five plus years old, you know. And you'll only find those kind of age classes buck age classes in South Texas. You don't find them anywhere else in the world. Nowhere else has that kind of buck age structure. And it's because of the lower harvest raid and the lower hunter disk density. You know, in South Texas you're doing privately owned land and uh um and so um. Getting distracted over here, guys, and that the podcast What is that all doing in here? Sorry? Guys? Yeah, we just had a and an English pointer come into our house with collar. It's not our dog, an English pointer and it came into my den where I'm at, and so my wife anyway, okay and so and then the second thing you guys hit on already too is the habitat the rush in South Texas. What's unique about it? And it's the stem tips and leaves are are real high in protein content, but it's not it's not as ideal forage as you know soybeans and lab lab but it provides uh really an unlimited uh base for the deer always to fall back on during time to drought and things like that. There's always that brush the baseline that they can fall back on. So deer never starved in South Texas because you know, nearly I don't know, guys know, probably plus of the landscape is brush covered, unlike anywhere else too. I mean there are places where the landscape is plant covered, you know, on national forests and national parks and things like that. But um, in South Texas because the brush species and there's so there's always that baseline rush to fall back on to feed on. Now they prefer to eat weats, is what they prefer to eat are forms broadly plants um, non bass plants and non brush plants is what they for fernny, But those are only available following rainfall, you know, and so between rains they are eating the stems and leaves of brush plants in South Texas. So but the age structure and in the base of brush are the two things, you know, the lockning pressure allows for that buck age structure. And then in in South Texas more so than anywhere else in the country, people are actively managing for deer too. They're they're planning food plots, but more importantly they're providing something you know, that's a that's a very common practice in South Texas for people without gravity flow pellet feeders to feed the deer. Manufactured deer pellets you know that are complete rational m hm. And that that really helps to grow bigger bodies and bigger antlers too. Yeah. So um with that, like, are you when you're the chief biologists of the King ranch, are you do you know, um all leased on specific leases or areas of the of the ranch. Are you familiar with certain bucks or like do you have do you have a catalog or how do you keep up with you know what, dear what age and and that kind of thing before they're actually killed. Yeah, you're you're guessing the age by looking at different characteristics on the hoofs, you know, and the a couple of the key characteristics to focus on our stomach girls, Um, the juncture of the neck and the and the front of the shoulders. You know how deep that that juncture is. The antler antler mass at the base is another good age characteristic. The key in on um, gross, spoon and Crockett score is good. You know. What you have to be careful of there is mistakenly shooting your biggest middle age bucks. Right, That's why you also want to use body characteristics like stomach girth and combination to avoid you know, uh, middle aged bucks don't have big guts. I mean, it's just the old bucks that have the big bellies, you know, kind of like men um. And at least me included, my waistline keeps keeps growing as my age goes up. Right, you're not old, You're just there you go. Uh. And and then now with the advent of the trail camera, you know, we've got we've got individual bucks on the leases that are that are trapped from year to year based on trial camera photos and and observations. Were you know, once the yearling bucks, you really can't when they're older at two, unless they have some kind of unique color pattern to their code or something distinctive about their body, because the antlers changed so much from one to two that you know, yearlings aren't really identifying again at too. But once the buck is too, the main shape of his rack help to the point where you can usually identify that same year from year to year. Following that, and so your biggest two year olds and so you know you're gonna you're gonna know at least two if they have a bigger rack than a year land for example, and your biggest two year old bucks, it's gonna be the first time they showed up in your trail, you know. And so once you identify a better two year old Bucks than you're able to track until you until you know you've taken three years worth of picture of them, and then you know that they're five. I mean, that's that's one one way one division of the king Rich. We were involved in the research project to Texas Bucks Capture project where we were steam Bucks that random by helicopter and netgun two pastures of the Morel Morella's division, and you're ear tagging, ear tagging bucks that were with your tag colors that were color coded for age. Right, So that allowed hunters, by knowing the sagging program, to be able to selectically harvest bucks based on eartight color. But that's obviously not something you can do anywhere else under any other circumstances. So so instead we're following on truip cameras and then guessing their their age somebody and antler characteristics. So I have a question about antler characteristics. There's the old kind of uh, I don't know what you'd call a hunter's tail, that a deer's antlers can swap sides, uh sort of and still maintain some characteristics. So say this buck has a uh drop time between G two and G three at age three on the left side, and then uh, you know, you see it year next year, but the drop times on the right side and everything's the same. Um, how do you feel about that? Have you heard that theory or have seen much about that? Well, with that captured project I alluded to we we we captured bucks on the two areas for seven years in a row on the King ranch, and and we had I remember the buck, well, it was a couple drop time buck. The first time we and the tooth weare aged him at three. Well, we rounded it up to three because we knew he couldn't be too but that's what his teeth showed, was that he was only a couple of drops, right, So we ended up calling him a three year old. Well, we were able to recapture that buck. Um all I'm telling he was aged seven and one year he didn't have any drop times. Another year he had to drop time just on one side, another year had to drop time on the other side. And so drop times and four and things like that. Those kind of individual anti characteristics can fluctuate on the same buck year the year. But the general frame shape um, the shape of the brown times, length of the brown times. I mean, you want to look at all those characteristics combined, and that usually not should identify that same In case, you know, the buck was marked with the microchips and and you know there was no mistaking that that was the same buck, you know, Yeah, So I mean you must have like how do you keep up with all that? Like that's I mean, that's a lot of information. Do you have pictures of the deer and you know, that just seems overwhelming to me. I mean, I guess with digital uh filing now it's not probably as big of a deal, but maybe in the past. Back then, there was one Windy biologist on staff that that that really spearheaded the commercial hunting operation and he was the person most actively uh scouting the bucks and identifying the shooter bucks. And and well him and another full time online filog it helps two guys together. It's been a large part of their work week, you know, identifying shooter bucks and following them and you know what I mean else for that that the bucks in that study, you know, it was fairly easy to follow those, But the rest of the ranch, no, I mean, and then on each individual lease, there's usually somebody there on that lease, you know that that's that's following individual bucks from year to year based on prep cameras, are line observations or observations from the helicopter, you know. Uh. Each each lease was kind of doing their own thing. Where on the on the leases where trophy deer hunting was important, the majority of the lease's quail hunting was more important than the deer hunting, you know. So what was the what was the biggest deer you ever saw? The King Ranch on the huff. Gosh, it's funny. They just killed a two hundred and seventy two buck there this past time, six or two sixty on typical. It broke the rash record by I don't know, forty forty inches or so inches? How old was that? Here? The guys, it was killed on a on the Santega true to at least that that surrounds the Claburg County Airport, the motust Negress Lease and it's the less he's a sugar operation out of Florida, and uh the wildlife biologists that's on staff there for that lease. I'm sure he had a good idea how old the buck was, but I'm not sure. I don't know or seven, you know, to kill a buck like that, he's gonna have to be five at least on the ranch. So um, Yeah, the biggest buck I ever saw on the hoof, trying to think if I well, we can we captured a buck as part of the study that was one and then that buck was harvested the year after the study ended and he was, Uh, I think you girls scored to ten and so that's that's probably the biggest buck I ever saw in the Kingdom. You've seen a lot of big bucks. Uh from what you have observed. What age do they have their peak antler performance? Yeah, we've got great actual captured dated to back this up. And this is with no one aged bucks only. These are bucks that we initially captured as fawns or yearling bucks. You cannot make a mistake age in them but tooth replacement and toothwar and so they're initially captured as fawns and year LANs, and then they're recaptured or harvested at at an older age and and we know the interval in between, so we know the age at the time of harvester captured. And statistically there's no difference between five, six and seven year old bucks. And average goes through the pocket score, so antler size peaks at age five to seven. Um, there's not a statistical difference, but a numerical difference or the highest average scores for six and a half year old bucks, but it's not statistically different from the five year old er the seven year old bucks. So five to seven's your answer? Yeah, yeah, so it's kind of the average growth. Put the crock a score drops off a little bit at seven, and it drops off a little bit more at eight. The average does so I have too seven. It's hard to get bucks that old. Yeah, and so is that going to translate across the US or do you think that like those big Ala bucks up there, since they have I guess less limited resources, can they just continue to grow? Yeah, that's a good question. Nobody has a data to answer that question except in in a in a captive or penned environment. That and that's for free ranging white tails. Nobody has the same kind of data that we have in South Texas. But I would guess it's the same. I would standler size across the range peaks from five to seven years old. Now, three and four year old Midwestern bucks can get a lot bigger than three or four year old South Pexas bucks, you know, and so the but I think those those same bucks would be even bigger at five, three to four? Right? Cool? But I guess maybe you're asking do the the peak at an basic and uh? I would I would guess no. But there's not any data either way on that. Yeah, yeah, that that's kind of you know, it's just there's always these variables that are just kind of unanswerable, you know that, And that's kind of what makes them cool, I think a little bit. You know. It's why you can go to uh, you know, raymond Ville and Sheeta white Tail and I think it's cool. And you can go to the moin and shooting do you and think it's cool. You know. So it's kind of kind of need how they can just survive in so many different places. So, uh, you know, you you like to spend some time in Iowa every year. Um, I guess technically back home? Um? Is this? Um? Is this something you like to do because you like big deer, you like lots of deer, or it's a change of scene, or it's back home or what? Why why spend time in Iowa? Yeah? The answer is all the above. The um apparently the hunt with family. I mean my brother and I co owned some some farmland and south southwestern Iowa south central southwestern Iowa zoned for Union County. UM from Holt County, which is a one county south on the Minnesota state line. But that part of the state is real intensively formed. It's about and you plus percent of the landscape formed. And so there's deer there where I grew up or hunted almost an extinction each year, you know, and individual wood lots and river bottoms, um. But so go back up to hunt with my brother and a family with friends. That's a big draw But also hunting big free ranging deer is also another big drawing. And with our we've been actively managing our farm and it started out with as a lease in in southern Iowa since the mid nineties, and so we've been working on this for twenty five plus years, twenty six years. We've been hunting the same farms and neighboring farms with our leasing operation. At one time we were leasing, we were we were controlled hunting ris to ten thousand acres in Union County, Iowa. And you can imagine, you know, what kind of bucks you can grow when you're controlling that much hunting rights, right, and so but now now we we own almost seven hundred acres and we least wanted two thousand acres around that now and that's what we've been doing the last ten or twelve years. And but we're still really successful at you know, growing older age bucks and we're less successful at killing them and grow them up there. You still have to grow up there. But hash guys, I mean, just because we grow a five year old buck doesn't mean we're gonna kill it up there. In fact, I think we probably kill I don't know, a fourth or third of the big bucks that we have every year on trail camera will probably successfully for us only of those bucks. And South Texas. It's unique about South Texas is every buck you get to that size and age, if you really want to, you can kill it because of the five month season, moving vehicle hunting over bay, you know, all those things that are legal in Texas that aren't legal on Iowa. Means that, you know, if you grow a big buck on a ranch in South Texas and you want to kill it, you can kill it. But that doesn't translate to the Iowa or the Midwest where Yeah, I think we only kill about a fourth of our big bucks up there. Yeah, so a lot of big bucks going harvested. That's kind of exciting. Yeah, it's exciting too. Yeah, Yeah, that's cool. Well, so you you you set a hot word, will I go? And we had to kind of talk about this we had you on the podcast. You you mentioned free range, and I know this is so subjective, and I would just like to have your opinion. Uh, if you go and set up in a in a stand, you know, overlooking a corn feeder or whatever it might be, Um, at what side? How big does the pen need to be before you feel like the deer is untainted that you're shooting. He used a bad word and they're calling it a pen. Get you going. I'm not going to shoot any deer in a pandem matter the size of the pen. I'm just not gonna do that. But but a high fence ranch at the perimeter of a ranch is high fenced, you know, and I would never call it a pen. But um gosh, guys, it really depends on the habitats, the management that's taken place there. Because this is the truth, and I've told people this, and but the Eight King Ranch is low fence. Every deer on that ranch is free ranging, native wild. But guys, I've never hunted a deer heard anywhere else in America that was more gentle, more easier to hunt, where the deer were more visible, more approachable. I mean, I stoked with my bow. I stopped a buck and shot at betted at under thirty yards so that he broke scored in the one eighties and the employee honey Bob. But I can't imagine being able to stalk with my bow a buck in Iowa. I mean, it would just take a whole lot, a lot more effort, and there would be a lot of times when when I came home empty handed. I mean, it's just and what I'm what I'm saying though, is that a ranch has the easiest deer to hunt. And I'm aware of anywhere. Um, and that includes you know, high fence branches that I've hunted that are under five acres. They can be you can have deer and a high fence that are the wildest deer you've ever encountered. It all depends on the management that's taken place there, right and so um. But in general, you know, a high fence ranch in South Texas, with the hunting regulations that are in place, you grow up big buckets that you can kill it right. So it's and you compare that to hunting in the Midwest, it's a lot easier hunting it is, I mean hunting hunting from a tripod you know, or high rack with a with a rifle that you can shoot out to five hundred yards you know, and um and then having five months to do it and then being able to do it, you know with the deer at the corn feeder or you know, it's just a lot different. Yeah. Absolutely. You know. We have a friend who uh went and actually east from up north and came down to shoot some pigs and kind of did one of those are high fence pig hunts and uh he said it was like the craziest thing ever because those hogs for the wildest, you know, scarediest, spookiest pigs you'd ever seen, you know, And it it kind of like through a kind of a ranging like my thoughts about you know, offence hunting or whatever, you know, because like if you do it the wrong way, those deer gonna hogs or whatever, the animal is gonna feel highly pressured all the time. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah that's leaving so um so I guess you know, as far as the the Iowa stuff goes, you, um, you guys are managing that property. Is this just a harvest management or you um supplementally feeding? Are you burning? What all are you doing there? On the property. Yeah, on the land that we own, we've planted over forty trees, um wow, most of the road crop ground two to c RP ground, you know, let's tall grass, prairie plants. So we we've done a lot of active habitat management. We've got just a phenomenal food plot program, you know, and most of our hunting is done during the shotgun season up there. We have a few few members that are bow hunters, you know, that are resident islands. But you guys probably know, if you're not a resident island, you're you want to get the bow hunt to stay every third or fourth year. And even though our own land and Iowan, I'm from Iowa originally, you know, I'm just just like every other nonresident. I have to I have to you know, gain preference points and put in the draw to get a buck tag. Right, So I end up mostly shotgun hunting Islwa because of the party hunting system that's allowed up there, you know. And so but that all boils down to is I'm up there in early December hunting, you know, a month after the peak of the rut. And so are the things that we've done to improve un ability up there other than the habitat work are to have a food plots that are at peak and attractiveness to deer in December. And so the two crops that are the three crops that worked the best our corn, soybeans and then uh turn up or a braska or radish, and so our food plot program involves those three and to successfully have standing corn and soybeans in early December week. We have electrical hot wires around all our food plots excluding the deer until from the about a week before the season one season, then we'll we'll take out the you know, we'll just connect the hot wires and they allowing you to start accessing the soup plots and so they're they're peaking. It's worked really well. I mean, we really suck in the deer in December when we're up there shotgun. And then with the habitat management and then by controlling the hunting rights, we're able to get uh UM and then to our neighbor's credit, guys, last twenty five years, they've seen a success we've had UM and that themselves have harms to last bucks. Now most of our neighbors are actively passing up bucks that are one or two years old. Um, and it's in case some of our neighbors are passing up, you know, three and four year old bucks. We are m yeah, and so it's become a neighborhood effort now to really working. Well, that's good, guys. We've killed eighteen eighteen net Bloon and Crocker Bucks. Baby. My brother's he's he's shooting first. It's one, you know, and so he got one, that fifty nine and he's he calls that he's nut there. Yeah, man, that's nuts to make the work. Look that's it by an inch. Yeah, man, that's crazy. Yeah, that's uh. Sounds like you. I mean, obviously, your your resume tells me that you know what you're doing, but it definitely sounds like you. You're still on on your game. UM. I really appreciate you doing this. Man, this has been fine. We love the biology and and just some of the cool stories that entail around things such as legendary as the King Ranch. Um. I have one more question for you. What is the most odd or weird or just striking thing that you have seen in the dear world in your time working in hunting. Well, that's a great question. Off the top of my head. I don't have a great answer for you, but I was. I was on the phone with another dear biologist that you guys probably know, Brian Murphy, Yeah, knowing well, the former CEO of the m A talking to him on the phone earlier today. And I had to stand out a slide show to all of my my consulting clients, and then to really tell everybody my folder the book that included a from hell capter of that had been run by a train. She was laying head inside the tracks of the train. And on this ranch, the road tracks run throughout three miles of the ranch, right next to a pretty well traveled highway. And so I think what happened that that dog got flushed by traveling on the highway into the path of the train. And I asked the ranch manager how long that happened, and he had seen he had found four other den here last time he seed that were killed by the train. That was that was pretty weird to beer killed by train. And then it made me wonder, with the manager's experience, how often or how many deer die every year from clish trains, right, I mean I've never Yeah, that's nuts, Yeah, that not something you would uh, I don't know, it's just weird, I guess, you know, when especially at nighttime, they get a light in their eyes and they just freak out. It's like, man, you just can't trust a squirrel, you know what I mean. Squirrel gets on the road, you just don't know what it's gonna do. And and obviously a deer doesn't quite do what a squirrel does. But I think that sometimes when you got two loud things on each side of you, it can be overwhelming the senses, you know, for a deer, I'm sure. And I think guys that they probably run into the train to they're not just hitting by the train, you know, by being in front of the train, because that that probably happens less often. But a dear, you know, running blindly to get away from something, I can see it running right into a moving train, right, that's because of the length of the train, you know, trying to get across and running into the train. Yeah. Well, first time I was in Iowa, actually saw a deer uh a crossing the train train track. I got a picture of it. Actually it's crossing the train track, so apparently the tracks don't bother them too much. When there's not a train on there. Well, cool man, thank you so much for for doing this. I know you're busy guy, and you've got to probably all kinds of dear things that you'd rather be doing, but I appreciate you talking to us. Yeah, you guys more than welcome. Sure. All right, Well we'll see you soon. Man. All right, good to talk to. Well, let's keep this train of rolling. We're gonna go. Uh is that dad jokes? Because Father's Day is coming up? That's right, Yeah, that's why I did that. I'm I'm pretty good at dad's jokes. Dad jokes. Oh, anyway, y'all need to go watch our YouTube where we can edit out all of the things that we misspeak. Um. This is uh, this is a place that we are putting Hunt breakdowns right now. YouTube. It's a platform where you can watch digital videos um and they free. They're free, um. And so if you go to YouTube and check out our channel if you haven't yet, you can subscribe and you can watch Hunt breakdowns which we are releasing, which are basically you and I just like gamer style watching the videos and you can see how we react what we're talking about. We can get a little extra commentary in there about how the hunt's going or what's going on behind the scenes that we didn't get video of, and then we talked about why we were successful or in a lot of cases unsuccessful in that particular hunt. And then if we have a mount back from that, dear, we show you the mount as well. So they're pretty cool videos. They've been received well, um, except for people hate the fact that I legally, I say legally sat and dude stand. But people do hate that though, But that's okay because I'm still within the law. I am not an outlaw um, and I don't play outlaw country. UM. Anyway, guys, go check that out and remember this is your element living in why not? Why not

Save this episode