00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler and I'm Casey and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening on my woods people? Oh here with Casey at the kids' table. Do we have to talk like this? We've got your baby sleeping in the other room. Oh we're really doing this. Yeah, the baby sleeping in the other room. Yeah, we're trying not to be too loud. Um doesn't mean that we're not excited, you know what I mean. Yeah, I'm super excited, and I'm a little bit less concerned about waking the baby than you are. I'm just trying to be considered because I know sometimes it's like, man, if this dude doesn't quit knocking at my door right now trying to give me some package from UPS, like I'm out to blow somebody's head off from us. And uh, if the dog didn't start barking at the UPS guy that's five miles down the street, I'm gonna go outside and choke a lab so well, So okay, So here's something that I've been thinking a lot, Like we've talked about this a few times, but you, uh, you're pretty much mentoring digitally like four people right now. Well that actually hasn't happened about like a week or so, but still we've been getting a lot of uh feedback, you know, from the social media world and whatnot. So um yeah, and like the people are people are getting into hunting right now, right yeah, like crazy. And I was talking to Jake Hofer about this from Exodus yesterday and uh, surprisingly enough, it's like the Hispanic community is real interesting in hunting, especially hog hunting, and you know, I think, um, you know, this is one of those tiptote spots. Try I like to not be racist, but we gotta understand that, like there are different cultures out there. It's okay, and I think that, um that the Hispanic culture, let's just say Mexican culture, because most of them are from Mexico, UM, is very much more in touch with like the holistic lifestyle. So to them, it makes a lot more sense to go out and shoot something and eat it than it does maybe to like some suburban, um white lady who's fifty you know, can man, That's what I mean. We're definitely looking for some of those. So, like with all these people that are getting in hunting, and you've been talking to a lot of them about this, Uh, this pig hunting thing because you and me and the Cody Brown and Brian Coke uh did some did some pig hunting this this winter. Um and those videos were just like it was almost like a video game. I loved putting those together. It was so fun because you I just put the labels over everybody's head, you know as they running through the brush. But we were just going out with shotguns. I mean, dude, our shotguns. Both of them were not working, you know what I mean, like fully, and it's just because they're old, cheap shotguns, you know, like you don't have to go be Brian Coke and buy two thousand dollars shotgun, you know what I mean. I mean, granted he has used it for probably like fifteen or twenty years, but you know, you you can get something. Really. It's very like basically what I'm getting to here is that hunting could be a little bit of what you make it. There is an upfront cost, but it doesn't have to be high dollar camo and high dollar gun and lease prices and all these things. Right, So you know, I mean for the people that are getting into it, maybe listening to this, like you don't hate you don't have to spend your entire paycheck this month to get into hunting. You can find ways to do that. And one way to do that would be the guests that we have today, John Adams from Natural Gear. If you need some new camo and you don't want to go out there with the army surplus gear, which I don't blame you if you don't, because that stuff you get cold. We've done it done. Yeah. Um, there's some there's some good stuff with natural gear that can be bought at a price that's a lot more you know, digestible, common guy and stuff. For a long time. Yeah, I wore a little bit of years this season and it are um, yeah, you stole my vest. Yeah uh so yeah, I've been warning for a long time. And so there are are like profile picture like if you've if you're listen to this podcast and you saw the picture that is a one eyed Jack the Buck and that is me. You wear a natural gear, you know, and that's what I that's what I wore for a long time and I still wear it. I still have pieces, still still still got the you know, so uh and they they worked fine for me. Um. And here's here's something also to think about. Um, you know, I wore that stuff like when I was hunting in college, Um, when I still playing college football and stuff. So I was not hunting until December pretty much, you know what I mean. Keept me warm, you know what. And um, I mean I didn't hunt a ton in like snow weather or anything. I wouldn't think, but I mean there's plenty of chili days. It kept me warm. So my point is there are things that you can I mean, there are ways to get out of this hunting thing a little bit cheaper, like with our shotguns and that kind of thing, so play less expensive because really it's a good applies like less quality. Yeah, well that's the thing. Uh, you and I both shoot Benelli novs. I mean they were like four bucks maybe the worst of the best kind of Yeah exactly. It's like, man, this is made by a good company, but we're not gonna buy the SP fourteen or whatever, you know what I mean. Definitely, So I mean, if someone wants to give it to me, listen, if you're listening from Italy right now and you're somehow connected to Benelli, please send me an sp E fourteen. But uh, you know, anyway, I just I just kind of wanted to uh introduce John as Um, a guy who has worked with Natural Group for a long time now and a guy that I've known for almost ten years, and that blows my mind. I was thinking about it the other day. I was like, man doing the sky a long time. I hadn't really talked to him too much except for three email. You know, I'll send picture every year when I shoot a buck. I'm like, hey, here's uh, here's a picture. Man, Thanks for the natural gear, you know or whatever. So old dude. Another thing about it is like you may you may be listening uh to this and you may be one of those by local type people, which is is cool, man. I like that a lot of course. At the same time, sometimes I can't buy local if I don't have any money, because I gotta buy cheapest, you know what I mean. There's only one place in this town that sells well, maybe two, and that would be Dollar General and the hardware store that sells Camo and probably not gonna do that's keep you warm. Let's think about regional maybe as being local, you know what I mean. So like and if you're from the South, this is this is a guy that's or a company that's building company camo from from the south here, you know, so uh employing some people regionally and locally, Um, that may stimulate your economy on one way or another. But just kind of saying, you know, that's the same thing with us with like Day six. Um, you know we're uh we like Brian because he's from the South. It's not that we don't like northern people, but because he's from the South, that's the only It's just because when you said, when he's talked to him, he sounds like he's familiar, you know, like you're like, oh, this guy could be you know, Emery or whatever. And you realize, you know, after talking to him for two hours that he's not from Emory. But he just has a good accent. So we like him, you know. Uh he otherwise he's not very fun guy to hang out with. Uh. So I hope he hears this and gives us a call. He's probably too busy, busy listening Element podcast, you know. Anyway. You know, some people just just love people that are famous. Do you know that? Yeah, it's true, man, I've been thinking about that a lot lately. It's crazy, Like, uh, we posted for my band. Uh. Um, you know, we did some We went and recorded this weekend or whatever, did a couple of songs in the studio. It's just like it's like old guys getting together to do something fun every year, you know or whatever, and that's what we've decided we'll do. And so um, we went and did that and we posted like two picks on the weekend. One was all four of us, the guys in the band, okay, and the other was us with a guy named Coo and who a lot of people I know if I'm to listen to this and um, and it wasn't all of this. It was one of us with them, and it got you know, I don't know, let me think about this. It probably got fifty to seventy more uh likes on it. And it's just like, man, people just don't care unless you're famous. It's worth I knew who Colton was. That no clue who that neck beard guy was? So good old beard. Yeah, Oh he's he's a rough dude, for sure, but he was. He's always been nice to us, you know. And the thing, the thing is funny and I'll say this, uh, and I don't mean to sound egotistical. But he was a fan of ours before he was ever anything, right, But nobody cares about that. They just think that it's cool we're hanging out with him. Really though, I don't know who he is. He's a popular music singer now, ye see younger, Yes, he's I mean he's I don't know how much younger. He's not like young young, I don't think, but his few years they'd be like twenty two maybe, I think, Um, you know that s where you're like, you know, you probably shouldn't be um doing anything professional, but you are, you know, So anyway, instead of being like, oh, that's where you should be doing professional things and you're not. We are losers. We're just sitting here watching babies. So anyway, Um, what's been going with you, man? I haven't talked to you. A whole lot of moving and uh babying pretty much. Yeah, I'm a big baby. The strange thing about moving is that you can move all your stuff. We're pretty much moved in, but the house is completely destroyed and a wreck, and so it's like, all right, we still have like a week's worth of work over there to make that thing at home because one of the reasons is we're going to be there for a foreseeable amount of time or a good amount of timing, and so you want to do it right as opposed to like a renhouse. We're like, ah in the room. Yeah, I can deal with that being the wrong place for a year or whatever. You know. So yeah, that's what I've been doing. What is your estimate added time of feeling better about this situation? Um, Like you know about your home, like like this is where we're gonna stay, and this is uh, it's all in pretty much order. It's going to move around a little bit here and here. Do you mean like being moved in? Yeah, I mean for the most part, but also like feeling like your stuffs in the right spot. I guess like you're talking about. I guarantee my wass moving stuff around in two months. Yeah. So it's just that's we're hoping to sleep there tonight. Yeah, so that should be nice. I'm missing my plants. Move my plants over there. I went trimm to all my maters up this morning. I just got all everything that wouldn't grow in a tomato on it, and the leaves didn't look really good. You know, it's a good idea. Yeah, so I don't know. The more leaf surface you have that isn't producing tomatoes actually the more moisture you're losing out of that plant. So it takes a lot more water to not do anything. You know, at this time of year of water is a precious resource. So we got a little bit last night. Actually came up a ton of rain in my place. Yeah, it was crazy and rained a bunch of the lodge too. And I guess at my at my place because it was wet this morning when I went out there a little bit. You know, we had a little plan for Friday out at your place hopefully. I mean I went and checked the camera this morning. The hog is in there that well, it's different because I think there's a group um that's got a few smaller pigs in it and stuff, and then there's like a boar to you that are also using. But there was one bit, you know, pretty good sized boar in there last night but right before dark. Um, I didn't check the other camera that's on the pond. But when I checked it, um two days ago or yesterday, I guess um the day before they had been in there, and like I had this, I put it up like it's the best shot I could get it the pond. It's not perfect, but it's kind of through a few trees and stuff. And I'm like clicking in there, and there's a thing in the side of the camera inside of the view finder that's like sitting there, and I'm like, is that a log? Dude? It's there was pigs in there, you know. It's sat there for an hour and a half probably, I mean it had to been at least an hour not moving this thing in the picture, and then all of a sudden, a pig just gets up. The dude halfway in the mud like a hippo, you know what I mean, just chilling. So I was like, yeah, that sucker right there is hot um. But anyway, they're using those this little tiny pond that it's about the size of this kitchen right here that I've got on my property. Uh, that's drying up quickly. But anyway, it's uh, you know, it's uh one of those deals where we could probably go in there and shoot one there too, just kind of depends on the wind and everything. It's a harder place to access. Yeah, so uh, where you're bating them up, it's probably pretty easy to get to. Yeah, it definitely is. Um. The one thing about it is there are dose coming in there way early, sometimes six pm, So I don't know that's hot. Dude. If a deer spooking really bothers the old pig too much, yeah, probably not. But it's like, yeah, I guess you're right, man, I guess you could walk in there whenever and just spook them. But yeah, I did have a buck show up. What kind of I sent you a picture yesterday, did you. I don't think I ever saw it. Yeah, Um, I'll send it to you again right now. Let's see he this. So I haven't had any any bucks at all being on my cameras really, which it's not a terrible thing. You remember a friend, Dave Skinner Um that we've interviewed about the scrapes. I don't know last year about this time, probably um, Dave was posting yesterday I think it was, and he was like, I never really see Bucks in the summer, but that's okay, and that dude kill some big ones. So if he if he doesn't see Bucks in the summer, and then I'm good with not seeing Bucks in the summer, you know what I mean? I gotta send you this, dude, is it a good deer? I was likely it's cool. You got that yesterday? That was it was the night before. When did you send me that? Sure? About nine thirty probably whenever I checked it? All right, well Tyler isn't telling you all. But it's a nice eight point. It's a good Yeah. They're just funny how quickly some guys I just look at deer differently, like you're like, that's a nice eight point. Dude. I had to go check this again like thirty minutes later and and figure out how many points he had, And I was like, I'm you didn't see me that it didn't go through? Oh well, I don't know. I yeah, I tried to. Um, maybe I just didn't have good service or whatever. Sorry, you were trying to have a hot fist and I just let you down. That's right. I figured something happened. So well, we've talked enough probably for this little intro. Uh. I don't know. We're just catching up a little bit. I hadn't talked a whole lot. But let's get John on the podcast. Um casey, he has a discount code that he just offered up to our podcast. Listeners. Dude, we didn't ask him or anything, so he thinks more about you all than we do. But anyways, John said that if if y'all trying to gear up for hunting season, which we all kind of are, that if you use the code element twenty all caps, it'll get you off everything on there uh website, you know, from the little stuff to the big stuff, so you can get some real nice stuff for a little bit less money. And we were like, hey, can we use that too? And he said, if you need anything or know anybody that needs anything, go check it out. And um, Tyler was saying, like, dude, they've got some nice like performance camouflage T shirt stuff that's like sixteen bucks for a shortsleeve camo shirts. It's like ideal for dove hunting. Yeah, you play, do a little discount on that thing. You can't get shirts that cheat. And I'd wear that to church man. I mean as good as it gets, you know. So yeah, y'all y'all go, if you, um, if you need a Camo or whatever, help old John out and use that discount code. Now help us out a little bit too, you and um, I think what that goes through. August thirteenth, August thirteenth. If you use element twenty all one word or whatever you wanna call it all together, we'll write that in the description down below two. That way you don't miss it. That's right. So you get that discount, and let's get John on to give us some discounted information on how to kill big wide Arkansas bucks. All right now on the podcast, we've got John Adams with Natural Gear Camo. John, how's this summer been treating you? Man? Hey, you guys, it's going good. Man. We're just clipping along through here, and uh, getting ready. We're starting to shift a bunch of fall products out. It's not gonna be too long now if you look at that calendar. Yeah, it's getting closer every day. Man, that's for sure. I I got plans, you know that I gotta start actually putting into action at this point. I mean, it's uh, the pre game and the you know, pre hunt activities and responsibilities are definitely upon this. So you know, doubt that tree standing, hanging food, blood and trail cam and all that stuff in the in the summertime and in sugars, sugar, sugar, and it's so hard to think about whenever it's ninety eight degrees outside and going and doing that stuff too. Man, that's the hard blood. Like, yeah, you know, season is getting closer, but man, alive, it's not. We ain't gonna getting relief until October fifteenth. Way, so you know, right, and minutes you know, you get you go spend the day at the lake one day and you just realize you're like, man, that stuff wait a little bit. So yeah, yeah, can I please find a school of baths somewhere? And it's no good. Yeah. So I've I've actually kind of known known you John since I think a long time ago. Yeah, yeah, and it's all been digital. So this is the first time we've actually got chat on the phone. That's kind of a weird thing. We're just busy guys, I guess, but uh, it's good to get to talk to you. Man. We've been chatting off area for a while now here, and so, uh we're pretty much pretty much best friends at this point, you know what I mean. That's right. So you have a shooter lined up for the fall yet, you know, I tell you I'll be Uh, I just I just pop cameras out just a few over this weekend, just over some some minerals just to kind of start seeing, seeing what's going on. I try not to get too wild and crazy excited, you know this time of year, because a lot of those guys will but in the summertime, man, they'll love you then leave you when it gets time to hunt, you know, So I I start paying a really close at inch into what what's sticking around. You know, when you get to about they come out of that velvet and you get to that mid September portion. At that point, we're only about ten days away from opening. So that's that's when it starts mattering. But I mean I have those books that have been living with you for two months that will pack their bags about the tenth of September. Yeah, yeah, man, we we've seen that too. We've we had a man, we had a honey hole, like seventeen maybe twenty eighteen was summer, and we had a honey hole on Texas Public. Man. We were just seeing, like I don't know, we had like probably five shooters in in this area in the daylight, you know, or you know, summertime velvet. And then you're feeling good, dude, and then and so like you're like, oh, can you child, don't go in there in September and mess things up, you know, just hunt it. Just don't do a check camera in September. Just hunting on you know, early October on the first front that you can or whatever. And we did that. We sat all day, which is something I don't love to do, and we saw zero deer. I think we saw a group of dogs come through, and uh we went to check that camera and everything you know, came out of velvet and pretty much disappeared. And it was like that's when we decided, Uh, we were never gonna hang a truck camera in the summery on taxa public Again. I'm telling you, it's a like I said, it's a it really they can lend you down a little bit. It's kind of a more of a a we view it as an quote unquote area inventory, you know kind of thing. It's just kind of good to know what's around the the thing. The only thing I have noticed, uh, there's it seems like there's a crew of the me'll that'll come back as you get a little maybe close to the rud because of those around or there's about that early December time frame where they'll just do a random water day to pop in out that guy is worse heat been, Yeah, you know, because it's it's when I say that they disappear, it's like, you know, your neighbors not getting them, nobody's getting them, you know, one of them kind of things. So it's not interesting. They're uh, they're they're fun to watch and and and fun to try to figure out that, well that boat that would bode well for me. This year, I got actually just purchased a small property to kind of hunt and build a house on and settle down a little bit in a place. And and um, I've been running cameras out there most of the summer, and um I've got I basically got two bucks and they're both small that I've had. And I mean it's just dough fest over there. So maybe all the bucks will leave from like a mile and a half away and just come to my property this fall. That's what I'm hoping. There's nothing about there, That's what it's all about. When the time gets right, that's sure, you know. So you know, Texas is kind of like almost like a subculture of Southern hunting, and so yeah, it's different, it's a little bit different. We we have, we have leases. We don't really have a ton of clubs, like hunting clubs and that kind of thing. Um, we don't have a ton of like of like timber leases and stuff like that necessarily either. Um, but you you kind of have a unique situation, I guess talk about where you're at, where you're hunting up there, and and uh and how they know kind of what we what we have would be similar to most of the stuff kind of across the southeast. You know, what we leave from a timber company and uh, you know it's actively managed for for pine timber. You know, they clear cut and plant new trees and and always take a few more white oaks, and we wish they would, you know. So that's kind of something I think everybody deals with and and kind of you know, pretty poor soul. I mean a lot of rock and a lot of red dirt and stuff. But uh, now we kill some fantastic deer. Place has been managed for a long time, and it just kind of was something that I think a lot of people are figuring out a lot of different places. You know, if you want to hunt older age class deer man, you if you have the amount of ground in the kind of club and you kind of get everybody on the same page and you can do that, you know. The q q m A is kind of the one that that it really kind of started it and that message and putting that out there, you know, and and getting there's more places that are like that on the other side of the coin to man. I mean, you know, you've got guys that that love to just go shoot a deer any kind of day or whatever they see. And man, I'm a fan of that too. There's something really pure about you know, when we were kids and man, you went to deer camp or you went deer hunting, you we weren't looking at anything, but we were deer hunting, yeah, you know, and there's a lot of that. I think, you know, just you guys are probably kind of like me. I'm a little jaded from being you know, in this deal for such a long time just for what you see and marketing that's out there and that kind of thing. And it's because a lot of that stuff you see on television and on these ads of stuff, mean, it's not accessible to to the bulk of of of guys that are deer hunting. You know, it's it's just not you know, and it's and it's like it's kind of created a culture of this, well, are you guys are a crossbow hunters? Or you should have gave you another year or you know that kind of thing. And man, I it's you know, that is boy, especially in this day and age, that's not what we need to be. That doesn't need to bear a message. You know. I think we've all probably been a little guilty of that at times, you know, But to me, it's, uh, you know, if a guy finds something he's happy with shooting and he shoots it, man, I'm all for it, you know, and we need more people like that. So there, that's just the pure portion of of of the hunting side of thing to me. You know, that's what it was when we were just out there doing it kind of as a family, as an outdoor activity that coming up and you know, that was that was cool. And I enjoy you know, having one that you get to know and get the history with and that kind of thing. That's neat. Man, it's awesome. You know if you're happy to get that, dear, it's awesome. It's it really is, you know. But you know, at the end of the day, that's not for everybody. And I said to you, with this, uh, so many different things going on right now, You've got to all these people out there that are that are kind of realizing that, you know, there's a there's a guaranteed source protein out there, and all that's gonna cost. She's a hunting license, you know, and a good time, right, I mean, yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think you know the other thing. I know, I've talked about this a lot with our with our Game Fish Commission, different guys that do stuff here, you know, locally and with kids groups and that kind of thing. Man, it's kind of dunking. You know. We don't think about it as much, you know, I know I don't. And most people we kind of are around and we grew up with, but we all started doing it with her, with her, with her dads and our uncles and grandma's and you know, grandpa and we all kind of came up that way. So it's kind of hard to see a perspective from a guy that's thirty five and he's got a ten year old son he wants to go dere and he's never been around it, you know. So then that's I think that's that's probably the hurdle we've got to kind of get over is, first off, how it's accessible. We can make it relatively inexpensive, you know, if you could get you know, my thinking was always if if these families want a deer hunt, if they would put in half the effort of what they put in to go to baseball practice and that kind of thing, yeah we'd have we'd have the next generation of hunters coming up. You know, you didn't even play high schoolball. You your son ain't gonna be a man, you know what I mean, Like, you might as well just give me a hunting Yeah, you gave me a five to first baseman. I just don't work. I tell you what. Something we saw this spring with all the kids getting out of school and all the soccer practice and everything got canceled. So our spring youth weekend for turkey season, the youth weekend was up like and everybody said, well, that's awesome, the turkeys are doing better. I said, man, that's participation. They didn't have to leave at eight o'clock to go to a dank soccer practice. Not that I'm anything against that, but they had It was an opportunity. You've seen a lot of people turn and go to they went to they went hunting, you know, and they got our fishing license sales. I think they said, we're up thirty percent, So people hunting, fishing, camping. You know, we're going to have a of This is gonna be an opportunity to grab some folks, you know, or this when we get past this thing, wherever it may be, this is just gonna be an opportunity. I think a lot of these families. You can see it when you go to these lakes and you go to these camping areas, these campgrins, man, their fool you know there you don't want to go to ford or you don't go here, you don't go there. Man, Let's get a let's get a camper and go camping. You know, everybody I talked to it's in that business. It's unbelievable, you know. There. So that's that's the plus side of of what we've all been dealing with, you know since mar you know, so I don't know if you'll went for me to go it's a podcast. That's a good talking man. You know. Hopefully we can't have a little outdoor renaissance from the thing. And I'm a youth minister part time, and I've seen like my kids, you know, they pick up fishing poles now. They would never used to would have done that, you know, And it's almost like they sat around played video games long enough that they realized, Hey, I'm tired of this, Let's go do something, you know, and it's it's a cool thing. And you know, kind of bring that back around to like your hunting club. You know, you sound like a guy who's real passionate about making sure people have an opportunity to hunt and get to do what makes them happy and that I'm all for it too. But just chatting with you a little bit even before we got on air here, I can tell you the kind of guy likes big bucks. So how do you balance that, you know, in in that club scenario where you want to make sure that you have an inclusive environment for people of all backgrounds to go hunting, but also be able to manage and shoot that older age class deer that that you kind of are looking for. You know, we uh we say, if you trigger happy, go get you. Though. Yeah, you know that's kind of where we stand on it because we got minimum harvest requirements on oliver bucks and that kind of thing, and they're going to be a certain age, you know what as it is, So we're we're kind of lucky. Know what, if you if you, if you, if you really just need to shoot something and go shoot you there, because we get a lot of those, and we do heavy. We harvest them real heavy, uh, keep them, keep them really in check. Uh to the point that most people from the outside looking in, it's kind of a surprise, you know, how many that will shoot. We keep them, We keep them really really in check, and they all get used and most of us, you know, eating ourselves. And with the beauty of it. We have a process or right down the road that is that is funded by hunters and Arkansas Game and Fish Commission and and the Arkansas Hunters feeding the hundred hungry. You know, you can back up there and and if you don't want that dover two doughs or a buck or whatever you got, if you don't want it, and they'll take it right there. He processes it. That that's fresh protein going to them people out there that needed you know a lot work probably than you and me. So yeah, that's a that's awesome. Depends on how long the pandemic goes on. I might need it pretty bad. I had to start eating all because you know, we got out of their meat. It's getting pretty low. Which this is a good time of year. You know, we're all kind of we all have a little different superstitions, you know. And my dealers. I can't have no airmate when it opens. H you gotta hunt hungry. You kind of gotta be. You gotta be kind of hungry starting last a little bit at the camp that weekend. You know, it's all you gotta have it just right. But I noticed today or yesterday is getting it's getting on. That's cool. You know you talked about the antler or well you just said harvest restrictions. Um, you know, I'm all for this is gonna sound real political, real quick, but we're stay off as far as we can. I'm all for um less government interference in my life. Okay, and um, the state of Texas and I think over a hundred counties now has I A might not be that much. I don't know a lot of counties. There's antler restriction, so it's it's based on inches of with the Vanler which is such a just generic thing I think for you know, what you can harvest or whatever. How do y'all a educate you know, maybe new club members on like what is you know, an acceptable harvest and then be like what have you found to be the best metric to go on as far as uh, you know, judging age and type of bucks that you want harvested. You know, and you guys, I'm sure to deal with this down areas you know, you get in the southern deer herd. The age and side of things is it can be a little tough half range. They can be hard to tell when they when they go over the hill, it comes real evident. You know a lot of times at that point they get really hard to see. It becomes really evident when they kind of go over the hill and just some of their features and they have a chin flap and that huge brisket and you know this sway back they'll get all those classic things that the deer all across the Midwest kind of it. But the difference to me is in that class from three to five and a half, well, a lot of times if you don't have some kind of history of that deer to really to say it's a it's hard to tell, you know, you've got to really because what we kind of have is we'll have, man, we'll have years we'll shoot two hundred two hundred five pound deer on the hoof buck, a full mature buck, and then the next year the matures the will way on the hoof, you know, and there's not a lot of rhyme or reason. We kind of have a class of of one that's a little bigger in the body, and then we'll have them that are really small body deer. But if they've got a you've got a hundred sixty pound on the hoof buck with a hundred forty inch ract, man, he looks like a godzilla. You know, they have a bunch of them. It really looked like that. And that's the that's the thing it made. Most of the guys that hunter with us are have been there for a long time and they're are good about you know, judge them on the hoof and and getting an idea of you know, what they're dealing with the new guys. It's you know, it's a learning curve, you know. If if you know, we've we go through a lot of different material with them here against we use a lot of the stuff in the QT m A and a lot of their you know, practices and their techniques, and then you know, we have racks around that we look at it kind of go through and and uh, you know that kind of thing. Most of the guys get it pretty quick. I mean, you'll have a anybody can make a mistake on one and it doesn't matter. You know, whatever it may be, you can get you can get through. But for the most part, everybody does a pretty good job. And we're all kind of everybody's kind of pointing the same direction. And when you have a history of it's not hard to believe it. When I can show you the paper, you know what I'm saying, you can talk about it and say, oh, if we do this and this happened on if we did Wait wait a minute, let me show you. You know, I've got I've got ten years or twelve years of data here. I can show you what, you know, what we can average in the way, and what we can average an age, and then what we can average in in antlers. And if we'll just kind of get out of the way of it, because the you know, there's not much out there really and truly, I know a lot of people are this mineral and that mineral and that feed and oh if you plant this food plot man at the end of the day, but the matrix is essentially in control of all of that. And you can't do nothing with genetics. You can control what you shoot and what you don't. You know, that's really about it, you know. So, and that's that's kind of what it comes down to. But just about anywhere in the country, because I think is more people are finding even down in the South where places where you have porcels or where it may be. Uh boy, he'll let them get the maturity. Man, they'll make a nice book. I mean, I'll sit right here and tell you. Anybody that tells you a eight point walking under a bowl hunter and a cool deal, man, I'm grabbing my bow, Jack, I guarantee you man. I know it. Man, That's how I feel. And we you know, Casey was talking about that that rule that Texas Parks in Wildlife is placed upon a lot of the counties and there's no doubt like it has helped the buck quality and Casey and I've talked about this in the podcast before the bucks around here much bigger than they were fifteen twenty years ago. But uh, but you know, there's a difference in in our opinion of the government telling you to do that and you and joining landowners taking a you know qtum approach and uh making it happen on your own, um, you know, and letting whoever, um, you know kind of I just know for me personally, I shot a little dinky probably nine inch wide six point when I was as my first buck, and I mean more excited about that than I've probably ever been shooting here. And so, um, I just think about it in that in that term. But is that is is antler restrictions and age class restrictions on that hunting club? Is that probably like your highest hurdle when it comes to just dealing with the dynamic of hunting with fifty or seventy Yeah, yeah, yeah, it probably is. But but essentially, uh, you know, everybody kind of knows what they're getting into, you know, that's why they wanted to get in there, you know. But uh, you know, for the most part, that's like I said, that's kind of what they're there, and they all get in there up and now you will have you know, we'll have different opinions about how we shoot. Too many of these bad that order maybe, And I said, well that mean people, Man, you're not all gonna agree on everything, so you know you just kind of kind of do the best. Look like, yeah, thankfully, there's just a handful of us on there. Most of us don't be a email and and halleo, you praise the Lord. Nobody does apply when they do, when they when they do, it's rarely, and we will we will keep them in the file because if they're using pretty funny when everything, Yeah, it's all been in those reply all takes. I got one the other day for one of my customers I might have better might say his name, don't know what I'm talking about. And he was having a get together and he had texted about thirty people and of course you know it comes upon you and you only know like two of the numbers. Well and here they went, and I mean it went. I think he went off two weeks. You know. Yeah, people don't realize that normal people go to bed around ten. You know, at eleven thirty your phone buzzes guaranteed. Yeah, if I'm up, if I'm up at ten, you better you better call somebody. A couple of months ago, my dad left our family group text. He was like, man, that's nine thirty pm. I'm out. He straight up left conversation. I think I hacked my sister off pretty good. Now. The other thing is I have to my wife has to remind me sometime because I might want to call somebody at six thirty more. And she's like, you can't call them right, And I'm like, oh, they're gonna be up, you know, because I did the same thing, man, Yeah, the same way. You think about it, So then you can you can text and if they answer, you know, it's okay. You don't feel so bad. Yeah, exact. And that's how that's some kids. Man. We we try to get them down early, and then they know they may get you up at They're gonna get you up at five. All at eight thirty, you're going, man, are they gonna get up? It's kind of that's kind of the difference there, man. So now, but you're right, it's kind of. It's it's really and truly, I think dear management. I'm sure other people have talked about this a lot of it's really it's people management, you know, more anything is trying to trying to vegate all the you know, if you you want to get want to shoot big ones. You want the guy shoes that wants to shoot anything. So I mean to be even for a state agency to do that across the you know, across their land. They're doing with the same thing. You know we've had here. You know, we have some ant restrictions here in the state. I mean, we have some stuff. I think that's four on the side. We did three on the side for a while. I think it helped, you know, in certain places. And you know there's probably he just kind of two school's thought to that. You know, as a a a deer with pretty good genetics. His first set of horns is want to be he was gonna have three board to a side, you know, so he's legal. But the one that just has you know, too is the one to get shot. So you know, I don't know there's a there's difference difference in that. But yeah, what about um, you know, do you have like a limit to the number of guys that can be on there at one time? And is that kind of hard to Joe? You know, we really don't. We don't know. Everybody can come up. Everybody can kind of hunt and come and go as they please. So you got your own stand location and everything, or do you stay that's that's right. Yeah, you get a handful of those. And then we have a a pretty big food plot system. And the food plots are just first come, first served. You can hone any time you want to, uh, you know, and it's just kind of a first come first and that's essentially they're used mostly for for our dough harts. Yeah, there's a few bucks get killed on them and at the right time of year, but essentially that that's a it's a it's kind of dough harvest, just put in like from fees, from least fees or how do y'all pay for the core? So that's right, Yeah, that's right, yea. Because there's so many moving parts and and actually so much of it is acreage. We have a guy that does them, and you know, we pay him X amount and that's kind of how we do it. Back in the day, there was a lot of guys that were there. They used to all kind of pitch and do themselves and you go do these, and I go do those, and we could probably still do that, but man, you know how it is in the summer, you've got guys going on vacation, guys did this job. It's it's you know, it's just a it's easier to uh to this kind of do it to what we all right now, and it gets done and in a of everybody kind of you kind of show up. Man. We have a couple of work days, you know, throughout the year, we have a couple of work weekends where we you know, work on stains, pick up trash and that kind of thing and clean up. But but that's about the limit on the responsibility. And I think we probably work about the same. It's just about any club in the in the southeast does, like said Big timber Lea's management. You know, it's we have a few of us have little camps there and you know a lot of guys come in and and just you know, day hunt or whatever may be. And you know, we a place to clean a deer and we've got a big gas machine there and we've got a frazer, you know that kind of thing. So I'm sure stuff somebody you guys have been around down there. So yeah, so how does you know I'm a little bit unfamiliar with the club thing specifically, you know, but that kind of sounds a lot like our leases, just maybe a bigger it's the same kind of thing, Yeah, except we're just rather than leasing from a private landowner, we're just leasing from a tamer company. So you know, if you have a place, it has you know, seventy guys, that's a lot of Well, let's just be real. Hunters all like to be chiefs. Nobody wants to be the Indian, you know what I mean, Like we all kind of have our content what we want to do. Do y'all have like board members who really get to make the decisions and stuff. We have a we have a board of directors, we do and that kind of they make the big decisions, uh, and then a lot of things of anything that's uh that kind of goes back it's been in the by laws or the constitution of the club for a long time. They'll put that kind of stuff out for a vote, uh, you know, through the membership. So but now we do we have a board of directors that kind of makes the decisions and that's all based through I mean, we sit down at the end of the year of the year and go through all the data, all the do data, all the bug data, all the we kind of all keep I'm on the board of directors there, and we all kind of keep a little list of I keep a little checklist if I keep hearing about this, you know, And it could be something as simple as guys saying, man, this guy drives by my stand every day to last thirty minutes, or you know, whatever may be, little things like that. We kind of keep a list of that. So we sit down at the end of the season and kind of go over all that, just review all of the important stuff the data side, and then we kind of go to the people's side, you know, and then and then just kind of go But most people, uh, you know, we kind of take for granted now here. Again, a lot of us have been doing it for a long time, and we understand. We're considered. I'm not going to a gate and and go hunting at the last thirty minutes of daylight. I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, but is that my right to do that? Perfectly legal, but I'm not going to do that. But you got another guy that he has to work till four thirty, and he puts it on the floor and he races out there. Well, he wants to go deer hunt. I mean I get that, I get that part two. So but on that side of things, but if you want to go deer hunting, man, don't drive through the whole place. We've got a couple of places you can hunt. That's that's three yards inside the gate. Man just flop out right there, you know. So, uh, that's just kind of him. Like I said that, that's dealing with people. So they're all it all works pretty well. And I said, I think we operate like most clubs kind of do throughout this and I've been at a bunch of different ones, you know, over the years, h the timber thing got big here. You know, I was kind of a young teen in the eighties of you know, these timber companies started at least they were open for a long time. It was our art was real cheap laces, and then they went up a couple of bucks and a lot of these clubs started forming and that kind of thing. So so you see, and so you've seen an increase in overall body weight and antler size since you've been on this one. Well, it's it's of the way. Thing is kind of funny, Like I said, it kind of it fluctuates a little bit, and it's really kind of hard to call. I mean, we have kind of like this summer, Uh we've had pretty timely rained so far. Uh we're getting to a point where it can still dry out and get real crispy, but it hadn't yet, you know, and it's it's kind of running out of time to do that. So um So you would think as an outsider looking in when you go out across these cutovers and look right now and there's ragweed that's freaking five foot tall. There's folks slade, I mean, there's just everything is just grays can be so you know, from from just a redneck gear by all, just think you would think, well this, they'll be heavy this year, you know, and that doesn't always compute, you know. So you know, I don't know. I think I think a lot of people they're just get what they need, you know, and they can get what they need without any without us doing anything. You know, when you we we take a walk through the woods and we really you know, we highlight the white oaks and we highlight the you know, all the all the good you know, the beech nuts and that kind of thing that that stuff to us is really important with them the day that stuff only matters to them for about two weeks, you know, and the rest of the time they're eating green and briar and honeysuckle and nine million other forbes that have pronounced you know. So yeah, so you know that's kind of the that's kind of the thing. So yeah, there's not really been any I haven't really you know, the correlation that that to the to the racks and the whites. It's kind of hard to kind of hard to call that. But you know, you can take a the little old two an a half year old fifteen wilde eight point man, if you'll give him, if you'll give him the five and a half, he's gonna be that magic number. He's gonna be that beautiful type. And I'm he's awesome, you know people, And that's you mentioned twenty five, Like people don't realize how big a deer is. That goes like that's a that's a Midwest one fifty jack, I guarantee, I mean, I'm telling you, I mean that's what you're looking at when you we we feel like that we can kind of average one thirties all right, and it may be a little lower maybe one point seven, mate, what are but man, hey, that's every one of them legitimate that size. If you take the right and you put it in your hands and it's a nice dear, I mean it really is, you know, it is a nice deer. And that's that's the thing. It's like, man, I'm I'm proud to shoot that and be proud to shoot it, and you know, one of them every year. But it takes getting to that. I mean, you know, you've got places that you couldn't go kill one of them right now if you had to. You know, that's kind of changing, yeah, you across the country. But the the thing that that that I think we've kind of shown, man, you can do that anywhere you tell you can do it a year or two, you may take five. You know. Yeah, you're gonna have to work. Okay, if you only got a thousand acres, that's not enough. You're probably gonna have to work with your adjacent landowners near Jason Clubs you know. Here again, final back on the q d m A, I mean, form these cooperatives. A lot of people are doing that. You know, well, y'all get on the same page and you start out saying, Okay, well we're not gonna shoot two and a half some We're will start shooting three halts, you know. And that's how a lot I'm kind of got started. You know. Yeah, it's because stuff. So you you spoke about the Midwest und fifty a second ago. You do travel to the Midwest sometimes and you do some of that. Um, I guess you do some turkey stuff more than deer hunting right when you travel. Yeah, I probably I do. I'll take I usually take one boat deer hunting trip and man, we turkey hunt pretty wild. Maybe we get after Yeah, it's fun. Man, that's kind of my thing. It's and it's just a it's more of a I'm almost I'm becoming like my dad. It's more about the travel. Yeah. So it's like at the end of the day, man, we go to these here. You know, it's a it's it's a great time to be a public landowner and user right now. You know, it's really at the forefront of a lot of things. Land Water Conservation Fund. You guys, I'm sure familiar. It is rocking and rolling. I mean, the Great Outdoors Act is rocking and roll. There's a lot of good stuff going on force right now because some of the things that were funded you know, back a few months ago. They're gonna want to take money from the places they can get it, and contrivation isn't going to be safe. It's never safe. You gotta fight every day every year to fight. It's there there, you know. It's never a set it and forget it, which is terrible it should be, but it's not. There's always something going after. They're always going after those lands, are always going after the money that goes into conservation, and then they always will and a lot of times there's not even they don't even having a good reason to. But that's beside of the point. But uh, that's what we'd like to do, man, we'd like to go out and get on those public lands and camp and and hunt and and uh, you know, we'll see if we can find a turkey. Two. So John travels out of state. It sounds like quite a bit in the spring, especially the turkey thing, right, and um, we've done turkeys a little bit, but we're traveling a lot for deer in the fall and that kind of thing, and for the elk stuff as well. And I mean the only way to do this stuff for us is on x Oh. Yeah, Man's changed the game. You can find anywhere that there's public land across the country, figure out, you know, what species are on that public land sometimes depending on the state, and figure out where you can access that stuff. And and it's just pivotal for what we do. Yeah, we've gotten private permission from that stuff, like it's not just a public land thing, right, So, um, it's been been a good thing for us. Another thing that we've used it for the spring and summer is the map Scout Challenge stuff. You've heard us talk about it a million times, but that Map Scout Challenge is gonna be awesome. And I just uploaded the first video and so you can't see it yet, uh, depending on when you listen to this, But if you're listening this week, it's not out yet, but it will be out soon. What's the date? What's the release date? Man August four, So you can actually go to our YouTube channel and hit set reminder. I think what it says is a button on the thumbnail and you'll get a reminder so that you can see when it premiers on August four, which is gonna be in the morning. Nice. There's a lot of on ex integration this thing too. I mean, like y'all can see like why we go on and on about this app and like how much of a help it is when you go out, especially in this case scouting new country. Yeah for sure. So anyway, uh go set your reminder and we're gonna get back with John on some of this stuff and see how he goes about hunting out of state? How hard do you feel? Like? I mean, if you if you were to go to two states, um and say one of them is your your home state, maybe uh hunt in public land for turkeys in the spring? I mean, do you feel like, you know, how do you how do you feel about that? Because I think about it and I'm like, man, some of this stuff gets so pressured. And then there's there's there's states like you know, I it seems like there's a turkey around every tree, you know, and like it's like, you know, how how hard is it? I mean in the same in Texas, like if you were to go to how western metroplex, you know, I mean, you're gonna hear you turkey at some point on if you're in a decent spot, you know. And so that's the truth. Man. You want to talk about probably a hard place to kill a turkey on public land, it's probably Texas. You've got to pretty much draw a tag for them, you know, at a at a particular w m A that they only run draw hunts on or something that. I mean, outside of that, it's it gets there's dudes listening to this podcast right now that are going they're laughing at us. But there are very few. There are very few that know. I won't mention them either because there there is a hint. But that's a hard thing to do that It really is. When you go to the southeast, man at the turkey unsuge, you know, so you getting you get into Mississippi, Alabama, jeorlder that part of the world public land. Yeah, you're going to deal with pressure and pressure turkeys and you know that kind of thing. But man, they they can go from just beating your brains out where you can't find one came here, one can't get but do nothing, to the next day they run over you, you know. I mean, it's just the same and you're talking about same property basically, right. It's just like see that's that's gonna keep going, you know. That's the thing is like it to me to my view on turkey, and it's like I just need to keep going. You know, I can't tell you the mornings you've been. It's like, holy man, it's a beautiful morning when hurdy turkey and you go and you go, and you go, and you got two o'clock, you strike one man and it's on and it's over in ten or fifteen minutes. And you before that happened, you're thinking, I mean, Miles, has it been today? It's just garbage even here now. It's it's like mentally for me, that's a tough game to play because especially if you go out of state. Man, it's like sometimes some tags and be a hundred fifty bucks and you for a poor guy, like it cost me gas to get there. It costs my hunting five dollars for two turkey breasts and two legs. You know, if I kill one and then my wife's over here like price, yeah, exactly, and my my wife's you know, taking care of the kids. It's just difficult, man, sometimes to like justify going out and giving it a shot on public land and going five days or three days or whatever and not here in a bird and having to go back to my wife and me like, yeah, that was a waste of time and money. I'm sorry, you know. I mean it's not a waste of time of money, but to her it would seem like it a little bit, you know. So it's difficult. You know, it's a good challenge, you know, sure anything looking at it that and you know the best thing you can do for contro unt, you know that. So, I mean, especially as a nonresident, you're you're funding a lot when you're playing that nonresident price. But you know, but my thing is I normally go into it when I pick a state out or I'm going to the state I've been before, traditionally, unless I haven't been there. Even if I haven't been, I normally know I have an idea of what I'm gonna be dealing with. You know, sometimes I'm completely wrong, but usually if I'm going to the southeast, I know him. We dealing with turkeys that are pretty quiet. Yeah, they're not gonna gobble a lot. They may go on a gabble of time or two on the roost, so it's gonna be more of a it's gonna be a chest match, you know. It's not gonna be some big gobble fest now like you said about I if I draw decide to get an eye a tag and pay that exorbitant price for one turkey, uh, I know what I'm gonna deal with. I'm gonna deal with a bunch of goblin. It's gonna be some big, heavy, classy Easterns, you know. So it's almost like it's a it's a completely different hunt than the than the pine trees of southwest Mississippi. There's zero You lay those two turkeys next to each other, they barely look like you know, they certainly then they certainly don't act, you know. So uh, I don't know, that's kind of the neat thing, you know. And it's just I'm not sure why it's a bit me the way it did, but it just it just kind of did. And like said, with our business the spring, you know, here we all were after the fall and winter hunting seasons and we've kind of we're putting our you know, getting our products ordered for the year. All that's kind of done. So we kind of had a little act. There's it's a good time to I can be it going a little bit more and it's a good time travel. And my thing is, like the deal man about me and Turkey said, man, they have taken me places I never would have went before, and I've got to see things I never would have seen otherwise, you know, because I'm that's just kind of the thing. So when it's and there's a lot to I tell you what you want to talk about something that's popular right now, it has gotten really popular and this traveling and Turgain has gotten really popular. You know, it's gotten to where there's some states that had you know, this year was a little different. You know, it was kind of the reround of season, so you had a lot of guys that were hunting, and it was in a lot of people talked about it, and it was real evident kind of everywhere we went places that we had never really dealt with with pressure, uh where it was like, man, there are some people hunt, you know, and it's like when you get up in the Midwest or you get up in the far West and you start dealing with hunting pressure, it's kind of a it's a head scratcher a lot of times for Turkey. So it kind of it throws you in a little like, oh wait, instead of needing four or five options, we better find an option, yeah, you know, And that's kind of that was the difference this year was was rather than having like, okay, yeah, there's a turkey man. He's on the top of that mountain though, and they're coming down a final that cliff a man, that's let's keep him on the back burner. Well, this year, that's the one you got to go hunt. Yeah, because way it was this brain, because it wasn't go find the one that might have been a little bit easier. He's already in the freezer, you know, or there's two other trucks parked there, you know, kind of chasing heat. Anyway, So that's that was the difference we've seen this year. Will be interesting to see what happens this fall as far as if we see the kind of deer hunting pressure, you know, comparatively, you know, because it was I'm telling you, for the I think the like for instance, George's harvest was up almost they had or something of their hunters that normally killed this one turkey check two or three. And that's just a matter of what's time, you know, that's just a matter those guys are out there and we're able to go. Uh, Missouri killed about increase, and that was after they projected to be flat or down. So the only reason it was really up was because of participation. Was you know, non essentials. Man, that's right out there and they're absolutely non essentials. And are you're laid off or what it may be? And you know, uh, just like this thing you and we are talking on right now, Man, we can do a lot of work from this deal. It's not like it used to be. Man, when my dad was working. Man, he left and he went to work, and I mean he he couldn't work when he got back. You know, it wasn't there was nothing to work on. So that's I think that's part of why you see the increasing participation to Man, there's a lot of stuff you can do, you know, from this from this unit we're talking on right now. Yeah, tried to set up my Hey. It's kind of like, uh, you know, it's kind of like some of those things out there that we've all got on the phone. Now you can look at the property and all that kind of stuff. Boy, I love them, but I hate him. You know. It's just all the information now if if a guy wants to get into it, he wants to do anything. But it's all out there, it really is. There's not there's not a lot of secrets leftn't that that can be good and bad. You still got to do your research. But it's, man, it's it's And there's never been a time where it's been easier to say, ay, let's go find a place to hunt. Are are who owns that? I mean, I've still got plat books, dude, I have some. I have some printing plats in a folder somewhere in my storage. Yeah, I know, you know, so you still you have to go through that deal, and you know, if you want to try to get access to a private piece, and and you know, now, man, it's all kind of right there at your finger tips that it doesn't necessarily mean there anymore apt to give your permission. But yeah, yeah, you can at least be talking to the right guy, you know. And I'm sure, I'm sure the hardest thing in the world probably get is you probably what do you got to have to get Texas hunting permission on money blood relation? Yeah? Sorry, there's probably not there's probably not much that gets No. I actually offered a guy money one time, and he said, money don't count. That's what he said to me. I don't know what that means. He said money don't count. So I was like, Okay, well, I guess that's as. It's just it's a different part of the world, man. That makes it more impressive for you guys doing what you do down there, because hey, you don't have a lot of dirt to deal with, you know. So I'm sure the the I mean, heck, even here Arkansas, we're not a big state, but we've got probably a half million acres of public land. I know, I've been looking at it that there's there's no, there's no you can't say, well, I don't have anywhere to hunt. I mean that's when we have. We've got just acres and that that's between state and fed up and everything else. Three huge National forest and uh huge refuge land is uh you know, so it's it would be kind of foreign, you know. For it's kind of like if you go to Montana and when you start looking at that map, when you get in Montana, man, it's all either yellow or green or red, which means go, go go, yeah, no, And it's crazy. So you're talking about the refugees, Um, they're in Arkansas. And this is something that kind of comes to mind for me. If you're talking to somebody and you're just in conversation, you said, I'm Gia Adams from and I work in Natural Gear, and that's kind of what my my job is. What would you say to somebody who said, now, Natural Gears a water fowler's company, right right, And I'm telling you, man, there would be a lot of guys that would say that you're exactly right man, and you are. I mean, that is boy. I cannot tell you the number of times I probably had that exact conversation. And man, for whatever reason of you know, obviously Arkansas is huge on duck hunting, but man, our stuff works so awesome in the timber that I mean, it's just always been loved and we've always been seen that way, and we didn't start making anything that was even water resistant until probably two thousand. Really, yeah, yeah, So these guys were wearing cotton bomber jackets, you know, from the duckwoods. You know, we all, hey, we all want a duck hunt when the sun shining and the wind blowing. But to ne reality, we don't always get those kind of days. But man, those guys are the duck hunters are there portion or a bit as the water fowlers all across the world. But man, for the if you're a deer hunter or a boat deer hunter, man, I can put you in a handful of pieces that will off in a duffle bag, and I can get you from the early part to the very bitter end. And you're gonna tell me, man, that stuff works great. You know that Winfrey fleece. Man, are you kidding me? Put that in the tree out here in Kansas. It's hey, you're gonna stay toasty. Yeah, beating. They ain't got a chance to see it. But the pattern. So I've had I've have had a bunch of friends, you know, you and I have said earlier, and we know each other through email for a long time now, and I've used some natural gear over the years quite a bit, and I've had a lot of friends. I got a few, man. Uh So that's the thing, man, is like, you know, I post a picture and I'll have some friend on Facebook that goes, dude, there ain't nothing better natural gear out there in that that kind of country, you know, and so it's uh so talk about that a little bit. Why does that work? You know that y'all slogan. Part of it is science of camouflage, right, That's right, you know, and that the the the basic thing about camo obviously, it's all about blending, blended, blending, blending, Okay. And when you take something that's that's a real busy pattern or it's got a lot of dark colors in it, it's gonna work right in a couple of different situations, no question. And it's gonna disappear in X or X or X. But when you take those light, open, kind of broad based patterns and the colors are light, man, you don't have you don't turn into a blob up close, and it just kind of blends in. It gives you so much more just versatility, you know. I'm all about having a little gadget that does everything would be nice. The oly we've got one that does this, one does that one. But if you're the guy that doesn't doesn't necessarily need you don't want to have to buy six different patterns because you hunt in the marsh, and then you hunt in the woods, and then you go bow hunting up north or you bow hunt here. Man. You know, that's kind of how we feel. We're kind of we just have it's just a versatility thing, sure, it just it just works, you know, and it's we love multipurposing stuff right now. Right as you know, we came along with U. You know, we make a green pattern now. We started making that back at two thousand five, kind of for the for the spring. Uh So when you get in early green up, it's awesome. But man, we've got as many guys using that now for they love it for the elk season. And I wear it here the first month probably before we start losing leaves don't fall till November around here, you know, the same way here. Yeah, it's the same way. Yeah, we're we're it's it's Thanksgiving, Yeah, before we start losing leaves at a big time, So we'll all wear that green. It's a little bit lighter material, you know, So I'll wear that especially early because we're doing the same you guys, it's it's not uncommon for that first week to be in the nineties. You might be for two or three weeks to be in the nineties. And uh so you're you're just you know, you're trying to how little can I get away with wearing. I'm not the short sleeve T shirt guy yet, but I'm not far. I'm telling you, dude, I wore and I wore a short sleeve one time on a hunt in Kansas early season, you know, early mid September, and the no SEM's got after me so bad that by the end of this this afternoon, I was inside of my my sleeves, like I pulled my arms in in my head and just sat there in side out a peek out every once in a while and just hope that it didn't come in. That's one of those early season hunts. It looks real good on the front end on the calendar. It makes me really exciting. We went, we went driving after that park, and that's all you're thinking about. You're getting pictures and and then you get out there in your life you're like, man, this is miserable. Yeah, that's right. So let's talk a little bit about you know, well ago you said you could fit everything we need in a Duffle agg Um. We're not gonna mention too many other brands or whatever, but you know how marketing goes nowadays, man, Like everybody's trying to sell you a specific piece that will fit your niche for one week and then you need to put on something different and it needs to layer and do this and that, and you need four different camel patterns, you know, ones for going to the mountains and ones for going on the ground and one you know, you know where I'm going with this, And man, that's just not y'all. Still some companies that have been very successful at selling a system, Yeah, there's no question. And and a lot of guys are are really into gear. You guys know them, we all know them. They're really into gear. That's just what they like. They like gear. They're like getting gear ready. They're just like they like gear, you know. And if that's your deal, man, so be it. And a layer is awesome. I mean we all wear a base system, you know, underneath our other stuff when the when the weather kind of gets to that point and we make a you know, I don't make just a few pieces to go in the duffle back. I'm just saying, could I could do you a setup like that. We've got a bunch of different pieces now that kind of go along in that layer. And because it's it does make sense, and it does. It does give you more more options, you know. I mean, how many times have you went where it's in the morning, we're gonna need about everything we got, But in the afternoon, man, can I just die and I'm gonna zip that jacket on my backpack and I'm going to wear this light stuff? You know? So that's man, that's likely places like that so we can system stuff, you know, it was there's a like I said, there's been a couple of people that were really successful in and kind of for traying that being you have to have to have it. But I know Tyler agree with this because I've seen his bookeyman suit. The other thing, there are more guys that that wear those her alls and they shoot more deer than probably all of us put together, got way more than me last year. And that's why, Yeah, you know what I'm saying. That's so a lot of times you have to look back and go, I wait a minute, Okay, this is great. I like gear, and this stuff all works and it's awesome. But when but if we really it's no different than then duck calls. I'm sitting there looking at a bunch of them. If you really talked about one of those I need. It's probably the two on that land, you know what I mean. It's come down to it's a it's it's more of the hunter and what he wants and what the performance he wants to get. But at the end of the day, you could probably get away with a lot less. So yeah, I think that comforts a big thing for for a lot of us, you know, like especially when you start talking about doing more that Midwest stuff where absolutely you've been there when it was if I didn't, had not had I've seen it take guys out, have seen the twenty five our wind and the high is not breaking the teens, and I have seen it take guys out and put them in such a bad mood. And you know what I mean, it just happened to us one morning last year. Sucks. It sucks everything out of you, you know. And if you're uncomfortable, man, you all of a sudden you hadn't seen a deer, and it's just boy, if you get that kind of a vibe in camp, it's like a cancer. Man. Yeah, you know, it's just like, oh no, we gotta get over this. We need a slump buster. Somebody yeah. So it's it's a it's being comfortable, man, it's key. And I'm telling you when I when I go to the Midwest or wherever I may go, that tradition we all know, we wear this weather app out we're looking at we think we know what it's gonna do. But I'm prepared for the change, you know, whatever it may be. And I've got my big heavy stuff because I've been caught before when I didn't have it, I thought, what an idiot, you know, because we make a big insulated slice Parker in Bibbs. And I'm telling you it's awesome. I'm and it is. When you get bad wind, crazy north wind, and you're and you're not breaking, you're not making freezing, you know, it's just it's just tough on you. You know you can you have to. Really, it's a mental game, you know, as much as anything. You know, but you have if you've got that comfort level. Man, you know, we've got the handwarmer thing. You can take that little handwarm burrel that snaps around your waist. You put you a couple of them hot hands in there. Oh man, that's just a it's easier for me to trust the guy from the South saying that you can stay warm than it is a guy from the north saying that you can stay warm. And that's something. That's what I'm saying. Dude, they lost their toes. Yeah, they're over here, like, man, this is the this is for the mid to late season. It's actually a long sleeve T shirt. And I'm like, no, it's not. This is not for the mid to late season for this Texas boy. You know. It's it's they don't ben they live in that stuff year around. It's you know, I had to go to Minnesota this last year in December, okay, and you can imagine it was. I mean, I gotta admit I was kind of like wildly, I don't even know if I'll make it, you know, which is which is just extremely silly, you know. But it was like a two hour drive from Minneapolis and there was a lot of snow and many it was like it was seven degrees. You know, the high was gonna be ten. You know. It was just once you kind of be like that, it's just just it's this is just nothing. It's just not anything. You know. They just don't pay attention to it, you know, like we did. I was proud of myself. Do you know, because I think you guys will agree with this. I don't know if I have ever run a heater in a hotel room, and I did not this time either on the second floor. So I run the air condition. I was I thought that was pretty damn I pressed, BEFOHI we seven degrees that I don't know if I go that far. Were last year and we were cooking in the hotel room. Man, I was like, we turned this thing up as high as it goes. Yeah, I'm telling you, I don't even know. You're right. It's a it's and I think the and the reverse of that. I've had guys across the North and Midwest that come down here during duck season and we get some of those teams or we get a bad wind or bad cold, and Buddy, they'll tell you straight up, I said, this ain't the same. Yeah, this is loch r eighteen. I said, no, man, because you don't have eighty five percent of humidity that goes wrong with it. It's right. It shows you to the bone. Yeah. Well, I tell people all the time. The coldest I ever have been probably is on the Texas coast when the other blew in and it was thirty four degrees and the wind was blowing forty because all that moisture is still in the air. You know, it hasn't it isn't frozen and fallen out, so it's like it's just cutting you like a cold knife. Man called us I've ever been was thirty four as well. It was Annapolis, Maryland playing in the Navy football game, and it was raining and thirty four and that was that was filling. Yeah, they don't make um they only make jackets for quarterbacks for some reason. You know that maybe y'll should get into that game, the game of supplying college football teams with jackets outside of quarterbacks. Dude, man, I think we've kind of got a little mixed you know, kind of for everybody. You know, really and true that we make up looks at the green and then our natural patterns kind of bred our bread and butter. And we've got a snow pattern. It sells really well up north, those guys that hunt late season hawkers and and uh predators and that even deer hunters up there, the hunting snow it works real well. And we've got like a we'd be like a waterfowl fields specific one now kind of something that we took and did a little used the natural as a base and laid a bunch of the like natural elements over the type of it that kind of came from our local areas, old rice, millet and that kind of thing. And it looks really cool. Look, you're a guy that it spends a lot of time in fields, you know, So which a bunch of people do you know? Because but the duck thing here, You're right, that's funny you said that about the duck thing. I've had that conversation a lot. But I think at the end of the day we sell more products deer hunters, well, at the end of the day, I mean deer hunter tara million or whatever, whereas whereas on the waterfowl side there's there's you know, I think the last camp was almost three million. You know. As a young man's game that I'm telling you, it's changed, you know, it has. It's a it's a he's highly participated in here, but it's it's changed. It really has kind of evolved since I, you know, started doing it. It's a for whatever reason, both those young kids they just love it. I mean they love it. They changed after him, and and they really get after here on the public stuff. There's a lot of ducks that get um, you know, hunted here obviously on private land, but are our public stuff. It gets utilized during duck season. It's anybody comes over here will tell you that. Yeah, I've got a buddy. And this is one of the guys that kind of made me think about the natural gear Waterfowlon brand. Uh you know is he he goes, well, he was only about every year, every other year up and hunting. I think a lot of that White River stuff and um, you know, they had a couple of really good hunts man um up there. But he he always was like, you know, man, if I can, He's like, I if I go buy anything else, I'm probably gonna buy some natural gear. Like it's just like something for some reason, you know, it's just kind of a cultural deal that happened. I guess that people think, you know, that's the waterfall On deal, you know, and and it kind of worked in. But we've got just about you know, we've got a bunch of boat manufacturers here in the state that make bug boats and they all you know use it for one of their colors. It's available, so they sell a bunch of them. But it's kind of a it's almost like a it's a little bit of credibility here. It's kind of what it's been. And that's been explained to me by some some younger some younger guys. They're like, no, you're kind of if you've got the nack gear on your kind of real guy. Yeah, So that's like it's like there, it's like counterculture going against real tree and Masso and all that. Yeah, I man, I love that kind of stuff. Man, that's cool. Well, we we try, we try our best to kind of have a little something for everybody, and and we still try to keep everything to where where it's everyday guy affordable. And we've got some stuff that's upper end, but we still got some just some everyday guys affordable. I said. We talked about short sleep t shirts while ago. We still make one and still sell a bunch of them, you know. So yeah, hey, I wear a tar out of it. And you've got stuff for flounder fishermen too, no doubt, No doubt. Boy, I have been jones and to get on the coast, and I have not have not gone yet. I have wanted to go really by that. So a friend of mine keeps a boat and attack berried. I'm trying to get down there with him, So I'll make sure and eat some filet's for you soon, as long as you clean them, you know, when it comes to them flounder, Oh lord, And we had we had we had a guide kind of actually a friend of a friend of Casey's, you know, and man, he could do the he could do the flynder file at pretty dad gum quick. Man. It's either it's like, here's the thing you don't want to have to learn it is what I found that. Yeah. Yeah, I lived down there for a few years, and uh I got to where I wouldn't filet him. I just uh, well it's kind of like a half filet kind of setting up for the stuff flounder deal where you just uh you kind of take it and make you slip down the lateral line and then you just kind of filet under both directions and then you just leave skin on and peel that back and then you know it's good. Yeah, I'm about to drive there right now. We did. We did just pretty much butter lemon, salt and pepper on him. The first night after we caught him, you know, we did some of the filet's and it was it just doesn't get better. Man, It's just I mean, we all spent a lot of time down there. I don't know, I used to, you know, I worked for the state down there, uh for for a while, and uh I slept it three foot of sea level where my bed was, so I was pretty close to the water. Yeah, and uh so I kinda that's actually I don't know. I kind of had a rebirth and loving to fish the bays and for a long time I kind of got into some of the bigger fish stuff. But you know, when you're down there all the time, it's not as accessible, so try. Yeah, you spend a lot of time down there. Man, It's I miss it for sure. It's just far enough away from me where it's like if it was about five hours closer, i'd be bad off. Yeah yeah, yeah, well straight down for you. You can get to Venice pretty quick of anything. It's just it's just long enough where you gotta kind of really planing it. And after four days and yeah, even though that kind of thing, but man, what a cool part of the country, you know, Yeah, yeah, lots of lots of life down there. Man, it's coolmology of the coach is crazy. It produces so much biomass, you know, it's just absolutely Yeah, Well, we appreciate you coming on and chatting with this John Man. Is good to finally get to talk with you. Yeah. Absolutely my pleasure. And like I told you, I gotta love what you guys are doing. I think you're You've got a great platform and a good message and and uh there's a lot of opportunity right now. You know, I think, uh, I think you guys kind of have somewhat of the same do you I kind of have on the industry. It's a little it's a little bit a little bit out there, you know, and uh, you know, I think it's I think a lot of people are gonna see that. Uh man, that's just it's not reality. There's more real type people out there that they're wanting to consume different content, you know. You know, it's funny you mentioned that my dad's kind of boycotting sports right now. It's not that there's a bunch going on, but he's kind of boycotting. And so we've been watching outdoor Channel when I'm over there. You know a little bit and uh, it's uh, there's some bad stuff on their dude, there's some there's some stuff on there. It's just like, I can't hardly understand how it's how it got on TV and was okay by everybody. You know, it's just you know, and and on the on the other side of things, you know, bless those guys. They've done really well and made a made a good living at what they're doing. But to me, the guard's changing on that. Do Yeah, I'll guarantee you know. That's what I've been telling my dad. You know, it's like, can you give it a program here, dad, because things are things are happening on YouTube that are real cool. You know. I'll tell you what we got our first ever and you can just tell you how up to date I am. We gotta we gotta smart TV. Yeah. Of course, my my kids figured out you could watch YouTube on it, which wasn't really ideal because some of that stuff is so But now I'm like, man, I can watch all that. I don't have to watch it on the little, you know, four inch screen on your phone. Now I can watch it all on there. So that is where I consume almost basically all outdoor content. To me, I think there's probably I don't know. I think that's where most of it's going. It really is. Because the way these TV services are changing, it's not as easy to go get the outdoor channel. Are these you know what I'm saying. We got to kind of send many other channels you don't want. Right when we had cable, we just had it, you know. So I don't know if they don't get with the program probably on these other providers and really make it, I don't know if would be more all a cart or whatever it may be. But I don't know. There's it's just changing. The guards are changing, it is, and there's a lot of good, big guys out there. They've done well in that and they do a great job and have a great message. You know. Don't get me wrong, but I said, kind of like we talked about the guy in the Boogeyman suit coveralls, there's a bunch of them guys out there. Yeah, if I watched your eye would do the other day. What about that deer drunking like that man and his nuts man, It's just that was awesome. That was just a cooler video. I thought it was a dirt bike. When I first heard him coming and I was like, that's what I thought it was. I said, man, I said, that's like being in Arkansas. There's some guy about to write a day. Yeah. I was like, I was about to get real mad, and then I realized he was just he was just raging, you know, he was just in a heat man. So that was cool. I don't love I have ever seen it maybe one other time on the video. That was really sweet. That's what. We had a comment a couple of days ago on that video where guy said the same thing. He's like, man, I've I've seen some pretty cool stuff on YouTube, and that was the top three, you know. So I was like, that was awesome. Well have him fault tip over in our side. I was really happy about that. That's like, you know, here's the thing that's the number one thing we talked about this is bow hunters. The problems begin when they go outside. Yeah, you know, because then you've got your decision making at that point. Everything you do from right then it's gonna can make or break what just happened, you know, it really can. You have to come back to compose yourself, and you've got to think about what happened on that shot, and then you need to make that decision right then and there are how are we going to handle this? You know, because it's once if they get out of side or ear shot, it's like traditionally the shot wasn't as good as you thought, you know, because we all know this stuff. We're all shooting now. But they can't take it. They can't hold it very far. If you get them in the bread basket, it's all over with usually within ear shot our side, uh, you know, So when they go out, that's when you're like, oh yeah at all man, you know, I'm with you, which I won't say what I shoot, but that's one of their slogans. So it's it holds pretty true from what I can see knuck on the wood. So yeah, yeah, yeah, And honestly, I lost the deer last year, you know, and it's not a fun thing, man, It's it stinks, you know, and it goes on for hours and hours and sometimes days. It never leaves you. Yeah. Well that's kind of been my motto this year, is like, dude, I'm shooting deer at twenty yards are less all year long? You know. I just think there's something to that. Yeah, there is no doubt you're you're exactly right. It's a yeah, you know, and we all know when there's guys out there, I mean leaving Borgan like to shoot one between you and me, I don't know. I mean that are just that are so good and so cool and so calm and so collecting, just so unbelievable that they're in a different class. But you know, for the most of us, guys, man, we're backyard shooters in the summer. You know, we're kind of doing or dealing a lot of times that moment of truth. Man, it happens pretty fast, and you've got to be able to put it all together. But mostly the equipment we're shooting. If you get even a lot of times, if you just make that right decision when you get out of that tree, it can be the difference. Sometimes it's not, you know, if you know man's land or your eyes shoulder, it's yeah, you better hope you get a picture him again, you know that kind of Yeah. You know, we've all been there, and it is it is tough, but it's uh, we don't see as much as we used to. I will say that it doesn't seem like it, you know, just because of you on the equipment is you know, I remember the stuff my dad shop when I was a kid, and it's Man, could you imagine if somebody sent you to the woods? Was one of them a you know original spade ebows At weighs about eight pounds. Man. You know, people don't even know that those killed deer at this point, you know, no, they and really you look at one and you think, karely Man, Yeah, you know, it's pretty it's pretty dang impressive. And everybody makes them. There's not a lot of bad product on the market out there right now, really and truly, you know, most of most of the poser's quote unquote count they're count of gone, you know what I'm saying. They get out real quick in the nineties, and seems like we had some of that, you know, but it's it's just drop of the case, you know, you real quick fast, you know now because it's instant on social media. You know, it's just right then. You see bart Broadhead companies a lot, you know, like if new Brodhead comes out and and it does some funky stuff, within a year, they're gone. You know. It ain't like they stick around and hang out on the shelves too long. You know, people just don't don't do that, dust Man. Yeah, so that's really amazing. You don't want to have to be judged in the uh, in the in the community, out there, in public opinion, that's for sure. That's why YouTube is not a lot of fun sometimes. Yeah, you're knuckle wood. We're just lucky. Man. We don't get you know, we don't have much of anything like that ever happened when work man, Yeah, it works well, and you know, customer service to us. Man, I I kind of just view it as, Man, there's not anything I can fix, you know, if we need to send the guy a new one or whatever. Maybe I don't care how long he's had it or whatever, if he's if he's mad enough, he's called me and got a big problem with him, and I just want you solve it. You know. It's kind of my thing. And luckily it's kind of the same way. You know, everybody, everybody's making clothing out there now is the same situation. All of our components are better of our fabrics, You're better. Everything's right, everything's just really good. Whereas you know, when a lot of us kind of started changing factories and stuff back in the nineties, late nineties and very two thousand. Man, there was a couple of years there I was like, oh wow, that's not that's not exactly what we need right there. So a lot of that stuff is it's across all brands. That fault is I mean, it's not it's not like it mean, it's like it needs has never been, you know. So Casey's mantra this year is is he's gonna get as close as he can and if he needs to use the science of camouflage to do that, what's the best way for him to go find some of that stuff? Man? I tell you what just about. You can see the whole product line at at www dot and natural gear dot com. And then you know, we have a bunch of different retailers across the country, most set on our website, you know, so you can you can just plug it in and plug around and maybe find somebody close to it you can go look at or you can plug through their website or ours kind of gives you. Our website will give you the whole story. We'll give you all the um you know, all the patterns and all the products, and like I said, kind of give you the backstory on the you know, how it was invented in what you know, kind of some of the things we talked about, but it goes a little deeper into that, you know, so cool. Yeah, so we'll link to that below. Our promotions were give stuff away about once a month on our socials, you know, so jump in on that. And we gave a guy real nice cooler just the other day. Man, he was fired up. How bad he was? Man? Yeah, it wasn't wrapped in natural gear. It was actually it was a big It was a big orca. It's a twenty quarter or that had a Natural Gear logo on top of it. It's pretty late. Yeah it's the last one too. I kind of I've got one of them, but I kind of had my eye on that way. It's okay, that's how it goes. Yeah, Well, we appreciate you coming on. Man. We're gonna link to that below. If you're listening, you can check that out in the notes show notes and John, thanks for doing this man. Hey man, my pleasure anytime. I love to talk hunting and deer hunting and camo and you name it so cool. So after we got off the phone with John, he really started to disclose the information and he sent us some pictures of some toads man some big bucks right there from Arkansas, like stuff that we have driven past, probably to go elsewhere and go hunt. Yeah, he also sent some Illinois locations. Um, he didn't know it, he sent him in the pictures, so I checked those out. A little pro tip, turned the location settings off on your pictures before you send. I don't do locations for any app I'm like, no, sir, I'll put up my own location on Instagram and it won't be anywhere close to where I shot that. But yeah, but now, John's a good dude. He shared a ton of information with us, and and dude honestly just a fun guy to talk to, you know, like just a good Southern guy who's a hard worker and has figured out a way to to provide for his family and and do a lot of hunting apparently. So um, we really appreciate John and all his knowledge, and also appreciating for offering a little discount for all you Element listeners and viewers. So guys, if you want to if you need some new camouflage, not a bad route to go go hit that element twenty on the on the natural Gear page and you can get hooked up over there. Yeah that's right. Um, I guess the last few things I mentioned here is the map Scout Challenge. Don't forget to set a reminder for that if you want to check it out. We worked so hard I can't tell you all. Like I'm over here telling Casey. I'm like, hey, we're probably not doing this again less somebody pays us, because it's dude, I've I'm telling you, like, these videos are all between about twenty eight minutes and forty two minutes, and they're just it's the most like, you know, comprehensive stuff that you'll see out there for map Scout, and I have no doubt about it. Um when you break down an entire area and show you pretty much everything and say, hey, you also could try checking out these spots. I mean, it's we're trying to make is the boots on the ground aspect of it, because I mean, it ain't hard to make a YouTube video and show people on map but like i'd go here, here, and here, you know, but like not to brag on ourselves too much, but man, we went out and sweatd our tooties off to like kind of make it go full circle. That's what I mean. It's just us saying like we worked hard to do this and so uh, any support you can give us is very much appreciated when it comes out. Well, we'll remind you all this stuff, but you could share that stuffed as well, and it really helps us out. If you don't share it, We're not recording any more podcasts. No, we're done, you know, say all later. We're just going to hunt this year. We may we may not even video this year if you don't hey, maybe not anyway. So um yeah, that's I would just remind you to do that. Go set the reminder and uh, those are gonna be rolling out one a week. Um. I think they're going to be on Tuesday's right, and then I think maybe on Thursdays. We're gonna try during that series a few there's like we've got like six of these recorded their public plan hot spots and like how to find dear just a few little tips. I'm like, hey, here's an Asia train feature that you can find deer on or whatever. And it kind of breaks it down a little bit. But the short video is way different format. Right, So if you're the guy that has a d h D, like you don't want to watch this thirty five minute you know, mas Scout challenge like it, share it and be like, hey, this is good. I probably I haven't watched it, but there are like some four or five minute videos coming your way. They were pretty hot too. Those are fun, man, We like had we've ranged them the idea and then feeling them all on one day because we were just like stoked to do it. Yeah, and I finished editing them before I could finish any of the mascout challenge. It was like way easier, dude. So anyway, get ready for the content is coming out and then we're working. I mean we're working right into ELK season here pretty quick. So I'm excited. You and I are probably gonna talk off air about some of that stuff, and uh tell everybody about um Unit one oh one that we're going to. So who I wish we had to could get to a one that would be that's the one, man, Please That'll never happen. Probably not because I'm not gonna try. No. Anyway, guys, remember this is your element living in

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