00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler in this case, and you're listening to the Element podcast Life follow you. What's happening on the woods people? That is music from Law Blackburn in his band Goold Town La. Let us use that music because Law is on the podcast today and we asked him that's right, and uh, if you don't know anything about music when you're independent, right, Yeah, you have the rights to your music. Yeah, you don't have to. Uh, label would have your rights otherwise. So like big, big artists that you know, typically the label has the rights their music, if not all of them, yeah, most of them. So, um, you don't get to just will annually throw your music wherever you willy nilly. But that's not Willie Nils so wow is an expert on all things cryptic. He is a monster hunter, a musician, author, and all kinds of cool stuff. We'll have him on and talk a little bit more a little bit, But do you think he's an expert on kryptonite? It's pretty cryptic. You know. We should have We should have asked him so much more stuff. It was a long interview as he is, because there's so many questions to be asked. One of the things Tom and I talked about before we got on this interview, is that when we're talking to other whitetail people and other hunters in general, like you kind of already know a lot of the same stuff, so there's not quite as much to talking about. There's still stuff. We still have podcasts, but like this, it's like Pandora's box has exploded and big foots are going everywhere, you know, Like it is just so many cool things to talk about, so many different ways to pluralize the word. Yeah, uh, you just said bigots, but I'm to shore. You said big feet at some point too, so I like big feet better though I haven't got big feet. Uh, dude, speaking of big feet, you were selling some waiters on Facebook recently, But why are you selling all your stuff, Tiger? Because I went through a bunch of my storage unit and cleaned it up because it needed to have some more room in it, and I've moved I'm moving everything out of my house right now. I am beat. Like, dude, it's just like ridiculous because so one So here's the here's the deals. Like, there's a few trees on my property right now, well actually not a lot, but there's something like my neighborhood and on my property that I kind of have access to that are just small trees that I can plant, like oaks and groundsel and uh, this one pine that I'm gonna get, I think, but like I only have a few days left before we close to get those trees. So like I'm in this whole moving mode and I'm also in the same boat as like I gotta get these trees. And then also if I don't play them the same day, they're gonna die a lot of times, you know. So I'm like, it's just it's crazy. It's been raining, which it rains every time we moved. Last time we moved, it rained cats and dogs, and Chris and Jamie helped us move out all night one night the night before we closed. It's just so soaking a way going through all our nasty stuff, you know, and just I don't know, it's it's uh, it's been a bit of a beat down. Luckily today wasn't raining very much except for this morning a little bit. So I've been moving everything out. I'm homeless pretty much officially starting tonight. Like, I mean, we still got the home, but there's no bed or couching it for us to sleep in. It's just a bunch of little things laying all over the floor that had to be cleaned up, thrown away and that kind of thing. It funny how when you I've moved a lot, right, and when you go to moving, like you move the big stuff and you move the boxes of stuff, and sooner or later you get to this point we're just like just throw all that away, you know, Like it's like probably like I don't know, three or four box is worth a junk. It's just like I don't feel like moving there or four until you have a four and an eight year old and then it's like three or four hundred bucks and throwaway stuff. Did the terrarium make the trip? It will, I guess imagine. But I'll tell you this because the terrarium is like a decent piece of decent article that my family owns compared to what literally is under my couch. I don't know how Kaylee, and I don't don't know how our couch wasn't levitating off of the ground. It was so much stuff underneath. I believe it was. Believe it's still all sitting there pretty much, you know, I mean, some of it got swept in front away. But there's so much stuff, dude, And this is just a small space, which you know, you still kind of gotta whether you got two thousand feet or five hundred and sixty seven square feet, you still got to have quite a bit of things, you know what I mean, because it takes some things to live of that you have to have. But I guess we were just really efficient on how we put it all. That's kind of like when your your wife and I have been talking about house plans, Like the bigger your house is, the less per square foot it costs to build the house, but overall it's a higher dollar amount because you you gotta have, like you have to have a kitchen sink, no matter if you have a house your size or a mansion on the lake. Right. Um, But you know what, I'm still real sad that that Tebow never came over and used the bathroom and that in that shop, Remember we were building the bathroom. We were talking about how like if we had bigger friends come over, are they gonna be able to use bathroom? One of these days, Tebow's gonna come over and UH have to you know, like that was gonna be the place where like people were gonna stay when they came into town to go hunt. And yeah, yeah that was the that was like the mother in law quarters that weren't used for the mother in law basically, and uh t bone, we just hadn't quite made friends with him yet. That's right, you'll get to come over the next place. Um so, uh whenever I pivot here, right, but whenever I was leaving moving tomp moving the biggest move ever made in my life as I moved from Sulfur Springs, Texas to College Station, Texas. And boy, what you talk about a culture shock. But um it wasn't as bad as mine, probably not. There's a few people it was country. I went from like real country to like broke country. Right, you went from country to royalty royalty, yes, yes, but um so I'm only child. I'm the only person kind of my age and my family. Uh, me and my granddad have a real tight relationship. You know that. Um and uh you know he spunk your twelve years ago than what he is now. He my granddad offered two things to me too instead of moving off. He wasn't trying to taught me out of college or anything, but just kind of like, hey, you know, let's do this. One time he offered to buy me my own, like legit nice center console boat and so I could become a guide on the Texas coast. And I turned that down. Um, I kind of regret that one. Um as you know a lot of good things. You know how that goes, right, if we're just gonna take that snippet, right, like I would like to have done that. That That had been cool. Uh this other thing would have been cool to them to My granddad offered to um tell me to postpone college for a year. We would both take a year off doing whatever we were doing, and we would go be Bigfoot researchers for one year and he would finance the whole thing. And I thought about it for like a week and decided not to do that. I did, dude, I thought about it because uh uh, well, I'm not gonna let you all in on the big the big secret. But for a while there, I was a big time believer in big Foot, a big time believer, man. And so that's why I'm pretty excited to do this podcast with with Lyle to Day because this dude, well I don't yeah, yeah, I don't know if he's believed or not, We're gonna you know, talk to him find out. But he definitely has dedicated a big part of his life to big Foot and a lot of other really interesting, crazy things. And you know, uh, as a lot of these podcasts are this one is pre recorded. We've already done this interview. But one of the things I find really interested interesting about Lyle is that the human side of it means a lot to him, Like the interviewing people, talking to people, Like that's the part that like means a lot. And I think that as I get older as a as a deer hunter or as a hunter, el hunter, hogun or whatever, like it's fun to go on these like really crazy uh trips were like I said, like the Helo last year, which you and I against the wilderness, right um. But it's also real cool to like go on hunts like our hog hunt this year, or like Kansas whenever there's a bunch of people in camp or whatever and like have that human quality to the hunt. That's that's real cool and it makes it a different experience. Yeah, I agree, man, that's uh. You know, we talked about the SLAD and we have, but you know, the solo hunter kind of aspect is a is a big thing right now. Um, a lot of guys think that it's super cool to go out and accomplish something by themselves, whether that's you know, back back country elk or or whatever it is. And I'll tell you this, man, I was super pumped up when I shot my Texas Buck this year, but um, it would have been way more high fest if you'd have been in the tree with me. You know what it was, I was, I was real stoked, but I wasn't like nothing was coming out. And so like when some when you start like vocalizing your excitement, it starts getting more and more. You know. Sometimes that's what would happened if you has been treat with you you're nameless, you do this thing and you're like, I was shaking. I had to let it out like it's so much fun. My head moved so fast during that. That's the that's kind of the cool thing too. For as far as capturing things on video, like when there's two of us and we can just like talk about it, it's very natural. Whenever you're by yourself, you have to like take these thoughts and try to like vocalize them in an interview so that it's not just you freaking out silently just with a camera on you, right, So it's just not as natural, and you have to, like you gotta like get the camera set up and then white balance set and exposure and everything or whatever you're doing, like all different settings have to be right. And by that point you're like not even thinking about what just happened. It's like, man, you know, you lose a little bit that high, but yeah it was I was still high. But like there's just something about the the social social aspect of hunting that is sometimes it is not very popular in some popular in some circles. And that's okay. I think it's cool to like challenge yourself to do something on your own sometimes, you know. But like, man, I just I like hunting. I like party hunting. Brian Cokin's right, that's right. Well, speaking speaking of capturing things on film, why don't we talk tow to see how many big feats he's got on on camera these days. Let's do it all right, So now on the phone, we've got author, musician, TV personality, monster hunter. I mean, the list goes on and on. This is Lile Blackburn, what's going on? Allow, Hey, not much, Thanks for having me. Yeah, dude, what's been happening lately? Man, it's uh, you live in Texas right right? Yeah, I'm in the Dallas Sport War area, so you know, I've been just hanging out lockdown, you know, watching horror movies and working on a new book. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah, So we're we We live just east of the Metroplex Thearity FW, so we are right up the road from you. Man. Um, the weather has been pretty nice the spring. Man. I don't know, I've heard some weird things about like, uh, actually Casey was telling me that a lot of people think that less cars on the road and equals a less heat for some reason. So, um, but I know, I know today it feels wonderful, man, absolutely, yeah. And I'm always grateful for any days when you can go outside and you freeze or burn up. It's like that perfect zone. So we get a little bit of both of that. Man. It's tough here, but uh, you know, being being outdoors a lot. Man for us, you know, we have to deal with the weather a lot. And I'm sure you're in the same boat. Um. You know, we mentioned in the in the intro here your monster hunter. Um, but you grew up hunting, right, like hunting actual game animals and that kind of thing, right. Yeah. Yeah. My dad is just a you know, black little hndle. So he was into deer hunting, mostly with a bow. Um, and we did gun hunting. And when I was young, I like to turkey hunt a lot, and uh so you know I've hunted you know, turkey into your other things here and there with a little bit with a bow. I was mostly a gun guy, but um, you know I love the bow too. Sure you speak kind of past tense there. Do you not hunt anymore? No, I really don't. I just life became really busy, and when I became a musician, there was a lot of touring, and it seemed like almost every weekend, you know, I was playing or doing stuff, and so the lifestyle kind of, uh curtailed any sort of hunting. But I was always kind of into outdoors. Were even just camping and you know, canoeing and stuff. So I kind of just got to where I would just enjoy the time in the outdoors rather than have to go you know, you know, in a certain hunting season or any of that I just kind of went went did what I did. Sure, I got you. So I actually turned for almost ten years as well in a band. Our band are a little bit different. The first one I was in was actually probably a little more similar to what to what you do. Uh, but man, it seems like a lot of people are pretty attracted to what you've done. Man, how many albums have you put out? I think we've done eight. There's some of those EPs and so forth. But I'm there a band, you know, this band of Google Town, my current band. It's more of an indie band. I kind of used to do stuff when we were on labels and stuff, and and then I went independent, which I'm glad because over the last you know, twenty years, it's like that's what a lot of bands can do. It's much easier now. But uh, you know, i've played bands before that, and and just you know, it's been great because I've had the opportunity to tour you know, a lot of the world and see so many things and do all that. So it was you know, it's always been a great experience. Yeah, that's cool. And the name of your band is is pretty particular, you know, like it kind of brings out kind of other side of what uh you know, we wanted to talk to you about some too, is uh you know, Gohould Town so kind of monsters, right, monster hunters. How you describe yourself? You don't describe yourself, at least to us so far as a crypto zoologist. How do you feel about that word? Well, you know, I'm I'm kind of okay with it just but there's no real accreditation for that title, and it has some connotations and for me, uh, you know, I mean I never really just came out and said, hey, I'm a crypto as aologists because again, you know, I don't have any particular uh schooling or training. It's just like sort of on the job training. So people call me that, and it's it's an easy way to describe myself. But you know, ultimately I'm as a writer, I'm sort of like this sort of uh, I see myself more as like an Indiana Jones journalist guy who you know, you know, monster hunter and you know, kind of my childish childhood vision of like something like that. So crypto as well. Just you know, there's a lot of guys that know that are very skilled in that they do have more science background and stuff. For me, it's like just sort of exploring the legends and the stories and just going in those plays, those wild places myself and seeing what I can see. You know. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. So do you feel like you kind of derived your inspiration from a different point than what like a cryptoa quote cryptos who alogist would, uh, somewhat. I think that a lot of people who are into this pursuit, whether they write books or just simply like want to, you know, research Bigfoot, a lot of them around to prove it. Um. That's never really been my total focus because that almost sets to me, it almost sets me up for potential failure because a lot of this is proof is scanned, and it's hard to to you know, prove anything. But to me, just the fact that people in modern times and reporting sightings of creatures that may or may not exist, and the fact that there's this phenomenon going on, this undercurrent that people are familiar with. But when you interview people on a daily basis, you're just like, man, this is mind blowing, and it can affect a whole small town to the point where some sightings happened some years ago and then now there's a festival that thousand people show up. You know, that's just a crazy phenomenon. And it's a guy who loves horror movies and love you know, Bigfoot and Yettie and Lotness Monster as a kid. I'm like, it's just mind blowing that that this this is going on. So to me, it was just all of that was fascinating. Uh not not just the fact that hey, if I if I can prove this or if I get a picture or some evidences or whatever, that's a bonus, you know, on top of this the whole research, you know, yeah, for sure. So you know, you describe yourself as a monster hunter, do you feel like, uh, you know, Bigfoot is kind of your year go to or or do you have other things that you kind of explore and uh strive to to at least do some interviews with people who's seen stuff or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I Bigfoot is obviously the big one, and I mean there's just simply more encounters and more places you know that you can you can go to where there's been encounters, and there's it's also almost the most plausible of them. It's like, you know, it's it's it's possible when you start getting into other stuff, you know, uh, lizard men and dog men and other they're they're they're cool things, but there's less sightings and they're almost harder to explain. Um but but I like researching at all. I mean, I wrote a book on this case about a lizard man in South Carolina. It's literally was like people reporting sightings of a crypt of a creature from the Black Lagoon in modern times, like by the swampy area. So you know that that's fascinating to me. And then there's a lot of lake monsters and river monsters are like that stuff. And I mean I've I've interviewed people that said they've seen uh, pterosaurs or what people would call a terra dactyl, Like I was in Oklahoma and to two sets, two independent sets of witnesses said they saw this dinosaur looking bird fly over. And I'm these two these there was two people that saw it together at you know, individual these people didn't know each other. So um so yeah, I'll follow any of these stories, especially if it falls in line with what I'm currently researching, certainly, but pretty much, you know, get contacted all the time, and if I think that's a credible story or sounds cool. AWQ, go ahead and log it in, you know. Yeah, so you said lizard men and dog men like plural, what are plural? Bigfoot? I think that's still under debate because it big big foots or big feet, uh sasquatch sasquatches. It's like, I guess it's like deer. You know, there's a look, there's some deer, or there is a deer, or there's a big foot or some big foot. It's hard on do you feel like, um, you know, you're talking about credible sources and that sort of thing. And the Oklahoma sidings kind of hurt my attention when you talked about that because I remember doing a little reading about like the thunderbird and uh, you know, different things like that, and uh, I think that's what they're called. But a lot of this stuff kind of goes back to like Native American tales. Do you feel like, uh, that's a function of just society, like people are going to kind of see the same weird stuff or do you think that like, um, that that is like maybe some reference to proof there. Yeah, I think that's you know, it's almost like the chicken or the egg debate. It's like, do do we as a race of people, you know, are we naturally inclined to see things like that? Or you know, we're the Native Americans seeing the same things as we're seeing now, because I mean, naturally, if these things exist now, they had to have been here all along, and and certainly the Native Americans would have had sightings. And they certainly do have stories of thunderbirds and what they called forest giants or Harry Ben that you can interpret as well. That sounds a lot like Bigfoot now, so you know, it's it's just it's hard to say though with the Native American tales because they had so many like stories of spirit animals, was not so much of a distinction between physical animals and spiritual animals, so it's really hard to tell where they were coming from. You know. I I was reading something that by a guy and he was a Native American and belonged to a tribe in um. You know, he was kind of a big Foot explorer at least had some knowledge and he just kind of believed that, you know, from his people's perspective, big Foot was a shapeshifter. That's why you can never find him, because he could just appear and disappear. And you know that's that's a kind of a neat like kind of melding of you know, modern stuff and kind of that. I don't know, I like the spooky, you know what I mean, Like that's cool to me. Yeah, yeah, they you know, I've talked to a lot of uh, native folks that you know their view a big Foot A lot of times just very matter of fact they're like, oh, yeah, we know these exist and the reason you can't find them is because they have you know, whether they're supernatural powers or they're just simply an animal that's you know, super amazing with blending into the woods. Either way, yes, they're they're there one second and they can disappear and you you know, you you monster hunters. You know you're never going to find them. Ha ha. We we know where they are and you'll never last. Kind of an attitude. Yeah, where is okay? So in your opinion, where is Bigfoot most likely to live? Well, based on you know, stories, incredible sightings and stuff. I mean obviously a Pacific Northwest, um, I think is is a definite spot. There's you know, sort of a long history of sightings. It's certainly a place that's remote. UM, there's a lot of land, a lot of resources where a large creature could exist. So that that's one. But you know, if you want to talk about the South where you know, I've mostly research here because there's plenty of areas that are hot spots and sightings UM in our area, and I think, uh, the area of East Texas into Louisiana and then up into southern Arkansas certainly has the ingredients for supporting some large animal like this. UM. There's there's a long history of sightings UM, many many people I've interviewed over the years in this in this sort of region. UM. So that's a good place. There's also a place in the Washington Mountains in Oklahoma where I've also been, and it's got a history of sightings, it's got um some very you know, unexplainable activity up there by that seems very very much like there could be big foots up there. And that's another place where it's like, dude, just to get into some of those places, it's you know, you drive your your truck for you know, miles and miles in there and there's nobody out there, and you know, anything could be hiding up in those mountains. Yeah, it's funny you say that. Tyler and I just went and did some deer scouting in a place just like that and the washed all mountains. It was like twenty seven miles off of pavement or something like that. I mean, it took forever to get to where we wanted to park, and then we ended up scouting, you know, the mountains there in Oklahoma, big chunk of public land, and we kind of get towards the end of the day, we're heading back to the truck and I mean, no doubt a big foot and I jumped out. I mean it was like something took off and it was it was very big and black, and we assumed it was a bear or a hog or something like that. I don't know if how far the hogs range up that way, but uh, we definitely thought it was a bear um that had took off and it was like, I mean, we didn't get a very good glimpse of it with Dad gum and it was all of us, all three of us. So speaking of pigs, Um, what do you think that bigfoot is eating on a daily basis? Well, I think just anything probably um, you know, omnivore definitely, you know, roots, uh, nuts, small animals, you know, pigs, any anything. Really. I mean if you kind of think about, you know, how much we eat or take for granted, but if we were just out there in the woods and you were you know, seven feet tall and weigh five pounds, you just have to be constantly eating. So I think they can't be too picky. Um. So you know, you're a lot of your bigfoot sightings are in areas like where there's a lot of water. There's rivers, there's you know, swamps, you know, certainly, you know there's abundant things there for dogs and fish and snakes and every kind of weird root um tubers and everything. And then in those those mountains up there in Oklahoma, I mean there's you know, uh plenty plenty to eat if you know where to where to get it. So I think anything, And I've had some of the most dramatic sighting reports and things, uh have come from hunters. And one of these which leads off a book of mine called Beyond Boggy Creek in Search of the Southern Sasquatch. This guy was over in east far East Texas on the Sabine River that separates Texas from Oklahoma. And he was sitting on a tree stand one morning, uh, hog hunting, and these hogs came in there with he threw out some potatoes and and he could hear the hogs come in and they were, you know, once they kind of got up there to the to the spot, he looks over to his right and he sees this ape looking thing kind of jumping coming up and jump into the tree from tree to tree, sneaking up. And the sun was coming up, you know, like uh, you know, it was real real, you know, the visibility. But as the light got lighter, he could see it was what looked like some kind of a bigfoot thing. And the hogs were uh, you know, didn't didn't smell it, didn't sense it at all. And he said, that thing kind of snuck up there, and all of a sudden he just jumped and leapt on one of those hogs and grabbed it, and the others just you know, scattered, and he said, it took that took that hog and threw it against a tree and and killed it. And then you know, the stairs just watching this, and he he picks up the hog and starts walking off and then suddenly he drops it and he turns around and looks right up at the hunter in the stand. I think he finally became aware that someone was sitting there and and it and looked and looked at him, and the hunter of course thought, well, I'm next. And uh, this swoop came from the woods and then the thing just picked up the hog and just took off. Oh man, I'm creech out right now. That okay, So, uh, the reason I kind of alluded to hogs is because, um, me and my dad were hog hunting one time in East Texas, a little further east to where we're at, and uh, we've actually found a hog carcass about twelve feet up in a tree and you could definitely tell that it had been killed by something and everything that is you know, native as far as we know to East Texas. Uh, you know, I mean, the biggest thing will probably a panther, a mount lion, whatever you wanna call it, um or a black bear. They don't kill their food and take it up and get in trees. So talk about getting weird, right, And it was interesting that you mentioned that that hunter said that Bigfoot was coming through the trees, because I never have really heard that illusion. You know, I just always assume that they're by people and they just kind of walk around. But I mean, if they are a great ape um, surely they feel pretty comfortable in trees, right, So I don't know, it's just kind of some putting some pieces together. It's pretty interesting. Yeah, I mean, you know, there there's one of those stories where you're you're talking about finding a hog up in a tree in East Texas right where you know, I just where was the setting of this this report? You know, you find those those things that match up that makes you say, you know, what, what what would throw a hog up into a tree? So you know, you never know. And and certainly there's you know, there's been more and more bigfoot sidings I think, And I don't know that whether that's because more people are out there looking now or we're aware of it and paying attention, or whether there's more of them. But there's certainly plenty of hogs. So if they eat hogs, there's no lack of food, you know. Yeah, yeah, sure. So you mentioned earlier about crypto zoologists that are more skilled than you. Perhaps I'm guessing that's Um, you're you're talking about in pursuing like sign and sightings, like actual sightings of of these big big feet big foots. Um. I mean, how does that is that what you're talking about? I guess first of all, these are more like hunter hunter types. I guess, well, no, more more scientific basis. I mean, I've got it covered as far as hunting, outdoors and that, and you know, investigative journalism. I'd say, but you know, if you're talking about you know, I don't know just um. You know, I know guys that are have degrees in biology, um, that have you know, experience like literally working out a zoo things like that, so you know, those guys have an aspect that UM compliments obviously, you know the crypted search, so you know, in the cryptozoology there's since there is no accreditation, people that are into it range across the board, whether it's just people who you know, just simply write books, or whether they are more in tune to prove this and they're out in the field looking for tracks. And you know, I'm somewhere in the middle because I'm certainly doing those things and I'm not I'm doing them in the context of evaluating some stories or some some areas where sightings have been so um okay, So I mean you you there's a there's been some TV shows, some Sasquatch TV shows, and some of these TV personalities. I used to watch them quite a bit. They'll do they'll do all these calls and they'll talk about they'll beat on these trees and stuff, and they talk about how this is a call that they make when they're doing this or whatever. I mean, it seems a little bit put on for TV. What do you think about that? I could do these people actually know what they're talking about. Well, yes, I mean some shows were better than others. And I mean I've been on I've been on Finding Bigfoot and Monsters and Mysteries and several of the shows. And no, you know, I know most of those people. You know, people have to keep in mind it's entertainment ultimately, and that the networks, you know, they don't care if you're proving bigfoot. They just want to make sure that it's an entertaining show. Because bigfoot research is true. Big Foot research just rather boring. I mean it's almost like you know, just sitting there looking and mostly find nothing, or just sitting and it's like it's like a hunting show. I mean, at least on the hunting shows that you know the dude, you know, the elk or the turkey or the deer. You know you're gonna at least get one here. It's like hunting where you don't find anything. So these shows need to have some proactive stuff. And that's where a lot of the wooden knocks and the howls and the calls and you know, it's hanging donuts on the tree or whatever. You know. But that that that needs to be done. But I mean speaking in some of these personalities, like Cliff Barrickman, who was on Finding Bigfoot. You know, he sees one of my best buddies, and he's the real deal that I I was looking for sasquatch before it was trendy, before it was over on a show, on a show, and he knows his business, um and and so. But you know, people like, well he's on a show. It's hard to tell. But then you've got shows like Mountain Monsters, which is completely fabricated. I mean, they those guys, those are nice guys. And there, I mean they live in the Appalachians and there you know, they know their woods. But you know that show, they don't they build a trap. They didn't really almost they didn't really catch moth Man and it got away. It just it's TV. So, um, you know, some of those are better than other than lately they're so they're so they've gotten so goofy now that I don't entertain anymore. But I mean, I'm constantly being approached by these production companies and networks that want me to be on the cast and one of these shows, and I just don't even I just won't do it anymore. I'll just I'll be on there on one episode and comment or whatever they want. But I I don't trust the networks anymore. I can understand that. So well. Ago you're kind mentioning tactics to finding big feet. Um, okay, So what's the weirdest one, like the donut thing? You know, like, what's the weirdest one you've heard or seen? And then what's the weirdest one you've actually been willing to try? And are they the same? All right? You will? You know, there's some weird ones. I mean a lot of them, I guess make some amount of sense, like uh, you know, hanging getting getting ahold of some guerrilla urine and in throwing that out in the woods means you know, who knows if they're going to respond to it, but it makes some amount of sense, you know, just shooting in the dark, and well maybe this will work. Um, even the donuts, so hey, who doesn't love donuts? You know, Um, you might at least get to see a black bear that not you know, right, a black barrel. It'll find food anywhere, so you never know. But you know, some of the weirdest ones are the this about gifting. There's this whole concept of I'm going to leave this gift and then the big foot will take it, and then you will leave me a gift, and that's that sort of elicit some kind of interaction. But I don't know that if you leave something in the woods and you don't see who picked it up or what picked it up, how do you know it was a big foot? And most of my first question as always well did you put a game camera on it? You know, because I said, oh, it left me this weird doll and stuff. I'm like, well, where's the camera. That's the whole thing is making a gifting area. It's sort of a you're luring him in. How come you don't, you know? And and of course that brings up the debate about well, if you put the camera suddenly nothing picks up the gift, you know. But um, there's there's a whole study that that happened to suggest that, in my mind, that that's a squatch could sense the cameras and literally actively avoid them, because they did a test with alpha male coyotes and the coyotes literally could tell there was a camera and would go around it, and the younger ones would walk in front of it. But I'm like, dude, if a coyote can somehow you know, avoid it, then certainly something would that would logically be more intelligent, could could uh you know, avoid it? Because that's one of the biggest questions. We've got all those game cameras out there, how come we don't have a better picture. I mean, there's some pictures that might be a big foot, but I mean a better one, and so it's possible that they're literally avoiding them. Who knows? Yeah, I mean and from our our landscape as deer hunters, um, I mean, we try to get pictures of books all the time that escape us. You know, so, like you take a being that is supposedly way more cognizant than that, and uh yeah, surely he can kind of avoid being on at some point or some way. What a so in with just take a theoretical bigfoot? Like what is bigfoot able to do? Like as far as like a scale of intelligence goes? Well, I mean to me, I think logically it's sort of like an if if then scenario. If if they do exist, then they must be a higher intelligence or or an awareness that has kept them from being proven all these years. And people go, whoa, how come one and doesn't run in front of in front of a truck and stuff. I'm like, well, they do run in front of cars occasionally, but they don't get hit. They are weary enough to stay away, and they would need some kind of sense. I mean, you know, there's a lot of a lot of animals that just I mean, they're shy and if they see the human, they're gonna run, but they don't give a damn. They're just walking around across the road. That you know, the sad squats has to have some intelligence and then possibly that extends to maybe burying their dead or you know, remain trying to stay elusive like that. Um, you know, And I think that people underestimate animals a lot. You know, people like, well, you know, how could it be out there and nobody see it. I'm like, dude, you can walk right by a deer or a hog or something unless it moves or jumps up, you could just walk right past it. Um. In animals, their fur, their entire makeup is meant to conceal them. I mean it's like like the stripes on a tiger. Those aren't just first, you know, because they're going to be in a circus. Those are those are meant to break up their form and to hide them in those tall grasses, in the in the environments where they're at the same thing for Bigfoot. You know, I go out there, go out somewhere, you know, East Texas or Arkansas in those mountains, and there's so many shadows and trees and stumps and stuff. Some dark figure just stood up there and didn't move. You wouldn't see it. You just simply would go by it. So I think that they're you know, they're just highly adaptive and highly uh you know, built into their environment where they can you know, just remain out there and exist without us particularly being able to find them. And and that's if they exist. You know, they just have to have those characteristics. So you keep talking about this area, which is where you've done a lot of research. I think, um, what Boggy Creek is in uh, southern Arkansas? Correct? Right? Um? So is there you know, and I can say this because I'm a native of East Texas, but is there like a socio economic bias in bigfoot lore? You know, are there because you never really hear like and there's I can see reasons why, but you never hear like high class or rich people talk about bigfoot. It's always some backwards person, you know what I mean? Yeah, uh yeah, I mean that's true to a certain degree. Um, certainly, I would say most of the people that I interview are are rural based people. Um no, I mean I do know some very smart people that you don't have college degrees. They served in the military or there mean even college professors that have experiences or siting as a bigfoot. So it's not but it's also just a matter of who is in those environments, who who goes? You know, you know, you you guys find us a lot of the eyes are like it's dudes who like to go in the woods, and we all talk like hey man, you know, like you know, just you know, like it was like when I used to hunt with my dad. There was just a certain culture of those people. But those were the dudes that we're going out hunting. The people who are you know, hoity toity, high class up in there, you know, urban home and stuff, well, they don't they go, you know, their vacation is spent in the Bahamas or whatever. They're not they're not in those places. So I think it's simply because it's the type of person who is in the woods or works um in the field, you know, if they would put them out there or a lot of that. And I think that's why there's a skew towards the people who see it are just you know, more of that style. So you know, and I find some of them to be just almost is incredible as you can get, because man, these people know the woods, they know the environment. This isn't like some dude, like if I took some city boys out there to the woods, I could scare them real easy, you know, and they're not familiar and they could see something, I go, dude, I think that's a sasquad. Whereas you know, some some old boy who's you know, lived out there all his life, he's seeing it, he knows the environment. So I think they're they're credible for that, even though when they get on the news, they always picked the most. Yeah, they least yep, that's what they like. Yeah, would mean it sells the story far the entertainment. Y M. Do you feel like there, you know, you're talking about the good old boys and whatnot. Do you think that there's more or is it possible if there are more bigfoot sidings that go unreported because people are kind of worried about the social implications that if they actually come out and say like, hey, I saw a bigfoot and they don't want to ruin the reputations because of it. Yeah. Absolutely, I think there's you know, there's more unreported sightings than there are probably reported ones, and there is social implications because I've I've looked on some of those hunting forums and occasionally you'll see a guy who's posts something about bigfoot. Usually they don't. Usually it may be just like hey I heard that this there was an encounter I saw this on a thing in all the posts below it are like ha ha, did you see a unicorn? Like you can see why they're not gonna they don't want to say anything because but when when? But there if they feel comfortable though, however, like if if you know, a service person comes into my house, like the cable guy or whatever. At first, you know, he kind of looks around. There's a bunch of there's bigfoot posters and tracks and stuff all of the house, and they kind of look at it, like so you're like bigfoot, you know, like you know, you can see they're kind of fishing. I'm like, yeah, you know, I write books on the subject, up on a few of the shows and stuff, like I really guess that's cool. And then they'll go out their business. And then about five minutes later, well, you know, man, you know I I wouldn't tell a lot of people this, but I was one time I was hunting and blah blah blah. You know. See, they it's not something they went on and didn't go and report this anywhere else. They just know, hey, well this guy is probably not gonna laugh at me, and you they'll tell me maybe he didn't have a total sighting, but there was something that happened where he goes. You know, it scared me. I don't know what it was or and so I think those are the reports that those are the ones I like the most because it's a person not looking for publicity. Do you think so this is kind of getting back into speaking it's a bigfoot, but you think that, uh, there's a level of innocence that bigfoot uh would allow for someone to encounter him. You know what I'm saying there, like, uh, if there's like someone's out there with social or I'm sorry, like economic implications of like trying to find a bigfoot versus like an innocent being just out you know, enjoying nature. Like is there is there a level to where do you think Bigfoot has the ability to sense that sort of sort of a thing. It's possible. I mean, you know, the animals can be sensitive to things like that or um, and yeah, it could be that you know, they they feel threatened or in some way by by the just the mannerisms or the talking between some guys or what have you. And yeah, I certainly could. I mean I always find that I think you get these reports where you know, people are camping or something, and they they you look up and one of these things is looking at him. It's almost like they have a level of curiosity that almost gets the best of them, where they're like whoops. You know, like you know, so if the people seem innocent or they're just seeing or hanging out or there's some kids, a lot of times they will come closer. Um. And then you know, of course once they're sighted, they sort of just disappeared in the woods. But um, but yeah, I mean I think that they could since since that and perhaps you know, get a little closer than they would if you're you know, stomping through the woods military style. I think every animal just fleas, you know. Sure, so you you just mentioned it. You know, like a lot of stories talk about how I came face to face with him, or he looked at me up in the tree, or you know, when I looked out of my tent he was right there, um, or you know, his hand reached in the window and I could see this furry hand or whatever it might be. It all seems to me a lot of times like Bigfoot is harmless in these stories. What are the chances that Bigfoot is going to attack a person and trying to kill him or has killed a person. Well, I mean, you know, there are some cases where the creatures appeared to have been aggressive. Um, and that was that was kind of the whole sensation about the legend of Buggy Creek sightings, the old movie the Legend Boy Creek in the seventies, Like one of the reports in there was this family that had moved out there to foul Arkansas and something was creeping around on the porch at night and it was trying to get in the house and the guys ended up trying to shoot at it, and then it literally attacked, uh, this young guy, Bobby Ford, and he ended up in the hospital from that. Um. And then you've got it was a case up there in in the Caiamichi's area of the Washitas where there was a family that claimed these things were, you know, coming around and being aggressive and all that. So most of the sidings, you know, are just simply almost they caught him off guard. It was going across the road or they were driving and it was standing there and you know, it quickly disappears. And then a percentage of those or suggests that, um, they could be aggressive. And I think that's just like any animal. I mean, it's like you. If you run across a bear, nine times out of ten it's you know, it just flees into the woods. They don't want to have anything to do with you. But then there's those times when that bear just flips or it has some reason to feel threatened, and then boom, it'll take you out. And so perhaps you know, and you've got all these stories of people who have disappeared in the woods, a lot of them hunters. I mean, he was to say that that the reason they just disappeared wasn't bigfoot. I mean, if a bigfoot wanted to take you out and just disappear you, you would disappear. So man, this reminds me of a thing I read one time. It was like a excerpt from a trappers journal from uh, you know, the pnw up there and supposedly, like a guy, you know, they kind of had like a little trapper's cabin where a couple of guys were staying there and they'd go out during the day and run their lines. And a guy supposedly it's shot one and had fallen into ravine. He couldn't retrieve it. Well, they went back. You know, and he told his friends this and they all went back and you know, it just kind of went about their business. Was that, not like the family came back and got that guy kind of as like revenge or whatever. And it was like supposedly a real excerpt from a journal, you know, Like I guess you can't call it proof or anything, you know, because it was just like some trappers who may have been drinking whiskey or something, you know, who knows, but oh man, spooky stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's that sounds like the Ape Canyon Bigfoot incident from m Yeah, what is that? Uh, that was pretty much what you what you described. It was these guys and Ape Canyon is out in the area of Mount St. Helen's in Washington State, and back in a group of miners we're up there, you know, doing their their thing, and one of them ran across this ape like creature and he shot it and then it fell into the ravine. And uh. Then they went back to the cabin that night, and then all of a sudden, at some point in the night, you know, rocks started hitting the cabin and all this stuff, and they looked out and up there on the was kind of an over a ridge that overlooked the cabin and they could see more of these would look like a ape like creatures standing on two legs, and then you know, try to get into the cabin and we're just just sailing the thing through the night. And that was just kind of one of those classic Bigfoot stories that came out of the Pacific Northwest, you know, early on. That is how you turned me into the city boy real quick. Normally, when I'm like, I can't sleep at night, it's because you know, I'm still a groggy and kind of half asleep, But that would be a night that I was be wide awake, Thank you man. Goodness. So what do you think the the social structure is of a big Foot? Like? How deep does culture run in the Bigfoot society? Uh? Well, I think you know, most most of the sightings just are of a single entity, you know, just one of them. So, you know, I think that leads us to conjecture that they would be quite solitary. You know, I mean, you don't you don't get a lot of reports where there's family units and things like that. Um, you know, occasionally you do, and you do get reports where you know, there they seem to be juveniles, and I think a lot of times that's probably the ones that are getting seen the least experienced. You know, a lady, it's all one in clear Day by the Sulfur River um in East Texas, and she said it did look five feet tall and she was confused. He's like, isn't felt monster? Bigfoot supposed to be bigger. And I said, well, you know, they have to grow up if these are real animals, so they could be of any size, like oh wow, yeah, um, but there you know, the social structure, I mean, they've got to have some structure because you know, in order to have a viable breeding population, they've got to interact in some ways. But I think it's very minimal. They don't have a culture, like you know, they're not building any you know people say they built these stick structures and all this stuff. If they do, it's it's a very temporary sleeping nest, you know, just a nothing permanent. You know. They just need to be on the move. And part of that is this because you gotta go where the food is, you've got to go where the water is, and you need to keep moving to to stay out of site. So I think it's just a very loose organization, and what family structure there would be would be based way back in the deepest reaches of the of the woods, and those that venture out sort of go alone, you know, their loan sasquatch. This is probably a really ignorant question, but do big feet live outside of North America? Yes, Yeah, there's there's histories of reports you know that in in some cases pre date you know, knowledge of bigfoot here. Um. There's of course the Yeti where there in the Himalayas. There's the year In which is the based in China. There's the Yahoi, which is in Australia. Uh. You know, many many legends around the world that described a big foot like creature and some of these, um, you know, date back many many years, and some of them are quite credible, like the Year and in the mountains of China, I mean, they don't let anybody go out there. I mean, there's nobody in those woods, um. And there's been some really intriguing footprint casts that have come out of there over the years and things like that. But it's not a place where, you know, you can't take a weekend and go tromping off up in there. You know, nobody is allowed. It's government properties and things. So man, there could be something living out there and and uh we ever be able to prove it. So yeah, yeah, there's there's there's all sorts of big foots around the world. So okay, so you talked about this earlier, But what about trail cameras, Like, why have we not captured a photo that everybody can agree on this is a for real photo. Have a big foot? I think the only explanation for that is if they exist, they've got they have to be able to sense those those cameras, and they could certainly smell them. I mean, bears will attack them, you know, because they like they're made out of you know, the plastic, the patrol reum that the petroleum product in the plastic. The bears can find them and they'll tear them up. U But you know, I think the sasquatch not necessarily that they're like those things take pictures. I don't want my picture made. Um. It's more like they can they're in the when when you're in the woods, and that's their territory. When they when they sense or smell something that's alien, then they would you know, perhaps they steer clear of it. That's it's really the only explanation because otherwise, you know, it's hard to get that picture of the buck. It's hard. You rarely get a picture of a of a cougar, but you do ever once in a while. So, yeah, there's a lot of trail cameras out there right now, you know, And and there's a bunch and so. But I mean there's been photos, but they're just you know, some of the more intriguing ones are just it's like the Patterson Gimblin film or something. You just there's not enough there to prove or disprove. It's like a lot of them. You can a lot of them. You can see and go, dude, that's I can recognize one of the store bought suits or whatever, or you yeah, I mean it's like you know, or you can recognize sort of a setup or it's an illusion that was one circulated that looked really good, but when you it was one of those my tricks when you when you looked at it another way, it was like, oh, it's a bird. It was a bird that was closer to the camera, but your mind thought it was further off and it looked like this guerrilla thing. So some of it's an illusion. But but then there's a handful of those pictures that I really don't know what's in that. You know, it just wasn't a very good picture, and you're like, man, I wish it would have been a better picture, because then you could have rolled it in or out. Yea. How do you feel about the Paterson film? Um, you know, I think it's possible it's a big foot I and I don't like to commit for sure, because certainly I wasn't there, and I you know, there's only so much in that film that you can uh pull out of it. But there's a lot of things pros and cons, and a lot of the pros are that, you know, it's it holds up to scrutiny pretty well. I mean, it kind of looks like a man, but then again it doesn't. And uh, if that's a suit, it's the damn best suit ever, because I mean some of the there was a History Channel show that tried to reproduce the suit with modern you know, materials and things, and when they did, you looked five seconds and you're like, no person in a suit you could throw it right out and Roger Patterson that filmed it. How would he you know, he could have never known that we would have years later, we'd have this kind of technology where we can slow it down and enlarge it and uh you stabilize it and stuff, and we you know, I still can't quite disprove it. And I'm I'm good friends with Bob gimblin um, and I find his his story credible. I find the guy, you know, as far as he himself. I just don't think he would have purported a hoax, never got anything for it all those years, and was cut out of all the monetary And I feel like that if it is a hoax, then Bob was also hoaxed because he he just doesn't seem likely that that that was a big conspiracy. So I'm still hung jury on it, you know, but I say it's still possible that's a sasquatch. Is that the most compelling piece of footage you've seen? Uh? Yeah, I mean it still stands as as the best. I mean, it's just the lengthyst and stuff and clearest. There there's been a few weathers that there was There was one in Mississippi that looks pretty good. Um and a few weathers that I find that that just can't be explained. But Patterson Gimlin still stands, is I mean, that's why it's sort of the iconic image of the big Foot, you know. Yeah, I mean you can travel all around the country and see you know, potwood cutouts of the Patterson Gimlin. You know, you know, it's pretty iconic, man, and it's pretty What are the chances that after that Bigfoot went extinct at some point? Well, you know, I mean I kind of thought about that, especially early on, before I was aware of just how many sightings there were or how much did it continued. But I thought, you know, if again it was just a solitary creature walking across there, what if that was one of the last of its kind, you know, and and uh yeah, I mean that seemed possible. But of course, now, having interviewed so many people since that, I think at least a portion of these truly saw some unexplainable creature. You know, I guess it wasn't the last one. That's a good point, like the California condor, or like it's kind of now one of the hypothesis is that it's kind of at the end of its time here on Earth because we came out of an ice age and it's kind of an ice age relic where like, you know, we for for a long time thought that like, oh, humans killed to California condor and that's why it's almost on the verge of extinction, which may or may not be true, but there's at least the hypothesis is out there. Do you think that big Foot came across on the barn Land Bridge? Do you think that it's kind of indigenous to North America? I think it would have come across because it seems to make the most sense, and you know that there's there's some theories that big Foot is a descendant of Gigantapithecus, which was a ape like creature that lived in Asia, you know, saving around thirteen thousand years ago ish and we have some fossils from that, mostly teeth and a jaw, So there's not much, uh, you know, left to Gigantapithecus, but it was some sort of a big ape like creature and could have possibly stood on two legs. And so if some of those did you know, come over here, like you know, like pomonids did, like that's you know, that's why people are here. They came across that bridge at some point, so other animals certainly would have been could have done it, and uh, you know, and also the old gigant Epithecus thing goes to show you that people like, well, where's the fossils, you know, it's not the fossil record. Well, yeah, well we got some pilot teeth and a jaw for a giant ape that lived in Asia. That's all we got. But the thing existed, so you know, you minused the jaw and the teeth and you've got zero exactly. You know, people really knew and I don't know a ton about it, but I've done some research like how much um, like filling the blank there is with fossils and falsil record, you know, like what we really know about what things were, And the falsil record is just it's pretty minimal compared to like, what is all hypothesis of what this animal looked like. I mean to take a dinosaur example of the Spinosaurus. I don't know if you know what that is or not, but it's kind of a um sort of a yeah, dinosaur that fed on fish most likely, and you know they're big long spill, but it's the one with the big fin on its back. Right. Well, just like a month ago, they found some new tailbones and like suddenly they figured out that this thing probably swam around under the water as opposed to just living on the river's edge like amphibious or whatever. Yeah. Like, and so it's like, man, there's so many things that we just don't know. And that's what kind of makes the big foot thing cool. I mean, well you probably know this, but uh, wasn't there like the rumor of like the mountain apes in Africa. Wasn't that pretty much a bigfoot story until they were found in the early Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the same exact thing, because uh, they had come down from those mountains and and told people that there's there's some big ape living up there, and uh it looked like one that they've never seen, and they were just laughed and laughed at and uh so the slips on mind the name of the the guy that went up there, he said, well, i'll show you, and he went up there and shot one and brought it down and said, how's this for you? And and there you go. So it so literally the mountain gorilla at some point was encrypted. So do you feel like it it would restaurant want to say this, is it worth shooting big Foot? Well, I mean, ultimately to prove Bigfoot, I think we have to have a specimen. If without a type specimen, it's not going to be accepted by mainstream, mainstream science at this point, I mean, big Foot has become such a pop culture icon and we also have all the technology now to you know, photos and videos, people are just gonna be suspect, you know, So now I don't know if it's worth shooting. I wouldn't shoot one. I mean, you know, I think if I was presented with that, I would be satisfied to see one, and then I guess I would be left with the story or you know, at least get a picture. I mean, even if it's just for my own you know, you can take it or leave it. But um, but you know that that's the thing. It's like at this point, to prove something, it would require somebody shooting it. So I don't know. I don't advocate it or I mean, you know, I know, my my my dad and my uncle's and them if if they see one, well it's going to get proven. Because they're gonna shoot so, um, say ten years down the road. Um, you know, it's pretty much proven bigfoot exists and we actually even have the abilities to capture one. Just big foot belonging to zoo for people to look at and see. I don't think so, I kind of I don't know if any animals belong in a zoo. It's it's kind of one of those it's good for education, but it's at the same time, and I think depending on how intelligent the bigfoot was, you know, as it turns out, and the definitely might not be something we want to do. I mean, even though you know great apes, they're super smart and you look at them sitting out there, you're like, man, I don't know. Maybe it's a better life because there are poachers and things, but truly it's like, let the animals be free, and uh so, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't. I wouldn't want to see a big foot in a zoo. And perhaps they're better off remaining a complete mystery because they're they're perhaps safer that way. So do you think is is it good for bigfoot to be a mystery? Like? Will it? Will it take some of the edge off if if sooner or later, like it's for sure proven, well, I think there's enough other mysteries in the world that if Bigfoot becomes proven, then suddenly like everybody looks at me and go, dude, you're not crazy, you know, but uh yeah, we take the wind out of the sales because it's kind of the big iconic mystery. And it's great to have mysteries in the world. I mean, it's I mean the world. I mean, just you know, take it right now. The world sucks. You know, it's cool to think that there's some stuff we don't quite know or understand or you know, it's like gives our imagination somewhere to go. So I think Bigfoot is good for that, and it's it's good for uh kids, It gets kids in the woods and all this stuff. So if you got rid of that, you know, you would just have to I don't know it could be filled in though there's you know, there's plenty of your men, dog men and mof men, and you say there's stuff. You say good for kids, It wasn't good for me. Man. For like two years in my life, I suffocated myself to sleep every night because that's a great Bigfoot was looking at me to my window. So yeah, that's a funny thing because I think back a certain number of years ago Bigfoot was a lot scarier now since finding Bigfoot and we're knocking and whistling and la la la. Kids are like, yeah, I want to go hunting Bigfoot. I'm like, dude, when I was a kid, legend of Buggy Creek and stuff, all I knew is Bigfoot was yeah, it's gonna rip me up. And if my dad left me in the tree stand, and I can remember like early on, so okay, son, you go over your own stand and I remember sitting up there, going, dude, this is scary. The Patterson Gimblin film starts rolling in my head and I'm like, dude, I don't know about this. This whole hunting thing is this is frightening. Yeah, no, kid, man, I've been the same. So I can remember going and buying a brighter flashlight of walm Artist because I'm all about a bright head lamp man um. So if Bigfoot, you know, say that happens, Bigfoot's found, and uh, you know, Lal doesn't have quite the same passions or people to interview Um, what's your nixt scrypted that you're gonna go try to figure some stuff out about. Well, I'm kind of looking towards doing a book on the dog Man phenomenon because as of in the last two or three years, there's a lot more sightings of these kind of bipedal caneid creatures, I mean, like living werewolves or something, and there's a lot of cool historical reports of that. So you know, that's something that you know has appealed to me just because it's like, you know, wow, people reporting were wolf things in modern times. You know, I want to look into the So you know, I would probably just go go on to that and that would become the next I don't it doesn't have the level will feel like Bigfoot, so we can never you know, you're not gonna have the dog Man board game or whatever, like like you have Bigfoot uh commercials or whatever. But I like you because it's spooky, So that'd probably I mean, whether Bigfoot's proven or not, that's probably a place where I'll go do some more research. So you know, we're in Texas. We've got to talk about the chop of cabra, right, Like that's is that related to dog man at all. No, that's something different, and it's it's actually a bit of a twisted uh crypted because the original reports of what we call chupacabra, which translates to goat sucker uh in Spanish. Those reports started coming out of the Puerto Rico area in and people will describe a creature that was killing livestock and presumably drinking their blood. They said that it was about three or four ft tall, it stood on two legs, It had big eyes and spikes on its back. It was kind of alien looking. And then about you know, in the two thousand's, people started seeing these these other weird dog looking creatures in the south south and southeast, including Texas, with these sort of mangy looking coyote type things. And then the media called them chupacabras. So those were two different There are two different things. So would people say Texas of cobra. Obviously we were talking about that, uh, you know, the hairless, strange looking canid that's caught on dash cameras. And there's actually some some carcasses and stuff specimens that suggests us that while it's probably it's not very monstrous, it could literally be encrypted because it could be a hybrid you know hybrid you know, caned species of a red bull for coyote, or something else with some sort of medical situation that has kind of created this little creepy looking dog. Because the fact that that that the vocabra kind of comes from like maybe a less developed country effect how research is done and how much they're able to prove that that is or isn't some kind of manji cout. Yeah, I mean, you know, certainly in countries where um, you can access the locations very well. This is like the era and of China when you're talking about going into the Yucatan jungle or I believe that's what it is. In Puerto Rico where a lot of these sightings early on it occurred. You know, it's just not a lot of people that are doing research and going out there, and it's not something I can you know, hop you very easily drive to or hop on a plane, you know, to go in search of that. So there's just less research done on those, so you know, who knows if there was something behind that or you know, is there still something to it? And then you know, and even just simply in Texas, what are these canage. You know, we just don't have enough specimens. But I get people reporting sightings of these to me every once in a while. So, um, they're they're both kind of unsolved mysteries. Really. So another one from kind of south of the border. Uh, I've I've grown up around some migrant workers and uh some of them from were from Kila area of Mexico, and uh, they would tell stories of the Brew haw Have you ever heard of the Brew hall? You know what the Brew haigh is? Uh, well, like that's the which kind of like they these these Mexican guys would still run from the barn to their house at not like they would not walk at not because they were scared of man. But yeah, they were believers. And is this like, Uh, there's like the legends of the latusa, which is kind of an owl type creature. Um, I guess there's that and then there's sort of that flying which kind of um but I'm not sure if both of those are sort of derivative of the same thing, or whether there's two two distinctive phenomenons, But either way, they're both. They're both pretty creepy and there's just something about that whole you know Mexican you know, vibe of of Bruja and the evil witch owls and what happened. It's cool. Yeah, yeah, man, you know, like it's really easy to write it off. But then when you see a thirty five year old man who's scared and running, you know, like that's a different deal. You know, it's like, man, something, there's something to this. It's weird, right yeah, And that's that's Uh, that just goes to show you. I mean, this stuff is going on out there and certain cultures in certain areas. That's phenomenon that we just don't know a lot about. You know. Yeah, what about the marine stuff like Champ and and Nessy, how do you feel about that stuff? Uh? Yeah, I'm I'm intrigued by that. Um. I think at this point Lockness is probably you know, more or less, you know, we we know it's probably not a pleas diosaur dinosaur in there. It's you know, there's some phenomenon going on, but it's less than a giant dinosaur. But um, Champ, it's you know, there's a lot of credible sightings and a lot of good research been done up there. Um. I like, I like river monsters there's the ten sil River over in Louisiana. I had there's a video taken by a guy, uh that was flying over some farms out there that shows some giant things swimming in that um. And I followed up with that as best I could and found some reports. Um and then uh, let's see what else. You know, the White River Monster from Arkansas, some that are a little bit closer to us that are sort of you know, that sort of aquatic swimming thing. And of course, you know, I love the Locknest Monster when I was a kid. So I've always been attracted to any reports I get, especially if they're closer to our area. Yeah, I'm gonna have to check out that Louisiana when I hadn't heard of that before. That's real cool. Did you ever read, um, the book lock by Paul's and Deal. I did. Yeah, that's a really good book. Yeah, that was probably my first outside of like bigfoot stuff. That was like my first thing that kind of turned me onto you know, kind of cryptids and stuff. That's pretty cool, man. You know, as a as like a twelve or thirteen year old man, it's just like your mind starts expanding so much when you start thinking about like the the weird and supernatural stuff like that, and not even supernatural, just like unknown. I guess, yeah, there, yeah, that's that's a great book. It's really done well. And there's one of my other favorites that is very not as well known, but there's uh, there's another lock in Scotland called lock more Rare and there's been sightings a creature they are called more Rag, and there's you know, it's very similar to lock Nest, but it just it's one of those that just never got the publicity, but it's there's just equally as cool. And there's a book called The Search for for more Rag that's really it's almost like Locknest but creepier and uh you know, so yeah, I've always love those those kind of tales. So it has to come to this though. We have to know what you think. Do you believe in big Bigfoot or not? Well, I'd say I believe in the possibility because to believe, you know, I try to stay balanced and rational about this and and I certainly want two. I want there to be these things out there, and I want them to exist, and I want to believe in them. Um, but I think The best I can do is believe in the possibility. It's possible that in you know, some sort of undiscovered ape like creature is lurking under our noses in North America in and uh. You know, that's based on you know, personal research going to these areas, interviewing people. Not everybody I interview, you know, probably saw a big foot. I mean, there's room for error and mistake, and the people are sincere, they're not hallucinating. They saw something, But there is a certain percentage of those that I know the person saw something, and they saw it well enough to rule out other things, and there is no explanation for it. I don't know how to explain it, you know, without having a specimen. But there's something to it. And that's why I believe in that possibility and keep an open mind about it until I suppose, until such proof becomes available or or doesn't. But the mystery still lingers on for me, you know, as far as Bigfoot especially, and you know a number of these other cases as well. So if that, if if Bigfoot does not exist, does that mean that these people are seeing bears or are there weird people running around in the woods trying to scare people or what's the deal. Yeah, I don't know. I guess it would be all of the above. I mean, because to explain away all of these sightings, and there is a lot, they go back many years, to explain away all of them, you would you would have to tally of you know, they can't all be hoaxes. They can't all be you know, little Jim Bob's cousin dressing in a suit, running under tree stands in front of counters or whatever. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like, how do you explain some of these like that? It's like, no idiot is going to go out there and go in the woods, especially if it's a guy who lives in an area where people hunt. You know, yeah, you know, you know some of them certainly could be a shadow or a tree stump, or a bear or even a horse's ass. I mean, you know, if you saw I mean that sounds crazy, but I get it though, you know what I'm saying, Like, I know a couple of instances where a guy said, you know, the only other thing I could think it was is seeing a horse or something like it a certain you know, I'm like, you know that that's a you know, he's being there devil Devil's advocate. But uh, but you know, I think that it's almost more it seems more ridiculous to try to explain away every single one of these things than to say that that there is something out there that exists that we just haven't proven yet. Yeah. You know you've You've dedicated a big portion of your life to this. I mean, it's it's part of who you are, right, Uh, the monster hunter. Um if it it would be hard to ever disprove Bigfoot. And so that's kind of where there's a little solace in this. But like, if it ever came to that, or you got to the point where personally you were convicted that there's no way this thing's out there, would you feel like you've wasted some time? No, I wouldn't. And that's be was of like I was saying before, And in some ways, I if I was solely out to prove Bigfoot now is my only you know, narrow focus of this, Yeah, I would feel like I've wasted a lot of time. But I my appeal to this is more broad. I enjoy I enjoyed the stories, the legends. Um, I enjoy researching them, talking to people. I love going out into the outdoors, and this puts me in places I would have never gone, like by you know, visiting a witness who lives some way out here. They bite me in their house, and they take me out and show me some cool stuff, and I go in swamps and all this like that is the reward. It's like, even if it turns out that I've been, you know, chasing nothing or what have you, it was really cool along the way, you know, And I met all these cool people, and I saw a lot of America, and I saw the spookiest parts of of our woodlands, and and so I feel that makes me feel like I didn't waste time. If it, even if it does get disproven, sure, yeah do you? Um? Do you ever? Does it ever weigh on you? Like watching horror movies and writing um spooky books and visiting with these people. Does it ever get Does it ever weigh on you? Do ever have bad dreams? That mean? How does that look for you? As far as just like your lifestyle? I guess yeah, it never really. I mean I guess some of some The only way that could be is like, you know, some people are traumatized by it, and you kind of feel feel sorry for him or something that you don't have a better answer for him, you know, or you know, you just you're in some cases I have I'm sort of like this counselor going, yes, you're not the only person that I've seen something like this. You trust me, um, But really, I mean, as far as it doesn't I'm not scared by any of it or have nightmares because of it. I at this point, even my office and if you go to my YouTube channel you can see a tour of my office or monster stuff all over it. It's like I just feel surrounded by that because I I liked it as a kid. I like it now. And just the fact that I'm part of my living is made from monster tales. It's almost like this is this is great. Who would ever thought I could grow up to be a monster hunter and make a living. Yeah, it's freaking cool, man, And you're cool dude. Man. It's it's been good to talk to you about this stuff and to kind of get to pick your brain. And you have written many books about this stuff. You're an authority on this stuff. If somebody wants to read some of your stuff. You know, where can they go and find your books? Well, you can find all the info on the stuff. I've done it a website at Lyle Blackburn l y l e. Blackburn dot com and uh, my books are available on Amazon, both electronic format and paperback and some are even hardback. And uh, you can also watch a lot of documentaries I've been involved in, uh through a company called Small Town Monsters. Those are all available on Amazon Prime Video. So and some of those compliment There's there's like the Bogget Creep Monster documentary. It kind of complements my Beast Bugget Creek books. So you know, there's visuals, there's reading and all sorts of stuff. So definitely dropped by my website. And uh, you know you can get links to everything from there, including my band, the Google Town, and all the music is available everywhere you know, iTunes and Amazon and where finer music is sold. Kill man. Uh, you actually have a pretty recent release on the book front, don't you. Yes. As a matter of fact, there is very timely because just today my new book was released. It's called Sinister Swamps, Monsters and Mysteries from the Mire and this this one instead of focusing on a particular u type of creature or a particular case, I tould concentrate on the geographic locations of swamps. And nothing is spookier and you know, more fascinating than swamps. So I talked about a lot of the major notorious swamps around North America where there's been a long history of phenomenon which includes not only cryptids and monsters sightings, but ghosts, uh, spook lights, strange disappearances, lost villages, um plane crashes that crashed these swamps they could never find, and all sorts of mystery. So this was a fun when where I could kind of branch out and and embrace a much wider variety of spooky topics. And uh so that Sinister Swamps and It's it was literally went live on Amazon today and you can pre order autograph copies from my site. Nice, I was gonna ask you if you can get some autograph So if that's cool, man, I'm goot to check that. Check that out. That sounds real interesting. You have merchandise to like T shirts, the big Foot T shirts or anything like that. Yeah, yeah, I've got mostly Boggy Creek. You know, some Boggy Creek shirts but yeah, they're from my site. There's my online store and that's where uh, you know, people a lot of people want autograph books and stuff. And then you knows as well the T shirts and stuff because I do a lot of events, you know, Uh, there's tons of Bigfoot conferences. There's the Mothman Festival. So I go around and do book signings and speaking events everywhere. So you know, it's always cool to take you know, take the merch and the book books and what have you. Yeah. Cool. Do you want to be solicited with people who have Bigfoot stories or encounters? Yeah, definitely. I mean I'm always open to to hearing of encounters and you know, whether I you know, just simply blog them for the record, and or whether they turn out to be something that I would work perfectly in a book or a subject I'm researching. I definitely am always uh trying to take as many of the reports as I possibly can. Yeah. Cool, cool man. Well, we'll be sure and linked to your website and all that stuff down below. Guys, go check out Liles music. We're listening to some some of that will go before we got on the phone with It's pretty cool stuff. Man, good, good, rock vibes there and uh and uh definitely I'll be checking out some of the books and stuff. Man. But uh, Dube, we can't thank enough for your time. I know it's uh it's probably gets to be a snooze fist to get on uh for an hour and talk to a couple of amateurs all the time. But we appreciate it, man. And I can't tell you. Uh you probably know this and this you have this effect on people, but um, I had completely gotten over my fear or the Willie's of Bigfoot. And now that we've been talking about this stuff like, I'm gonna sleep a little closer for my wife tonight, you know, so she'll be appreciating with me that, I guess. So anyways, thanks Lou. We really appreciate your time, man, no problem. Thanks guys, appreciate you having me on. Yeah for sure. Well, Tyler, I was really considering hunting the Washedtall Mountains, but I don't think I'm gonna be purchasing in Oklahoma license anymore, sir. Let me tell you one thing that didn't cross my mind that day, that it was Bigfoot. I know you want to about something that's crossing my mind right now, that it was big foot because this dude, legit just described the place we went. Yeah, and let me tell you this. Do you remember when we were like you thought it was a bear, then you thought it was a pig, and I thought it was a bear after I got a look at it, and so we were like kind of debating, like what we saw and then you just go, I don't know what it was really, but that thing was moving through the woods like it was getting it dude, Like I know, I know an animal can do that. We we actually talked to Brian Coke about how fast a pig is recently. Uh, you know, it's we know that this isn't the truth, but they say thirty miles an hour um in the mountains, in the rocks. If it was a pig, there's no way. I don't think, you know, it's a good point, Like it definitely probably means it was a bear and or well I'm just saying thirty is no way, but you know, whether whatever it is. Man, it was like it was just tearing through the woods. Did not like that we were there. Let me tell you this, though, I really don't think I believe in Bigfoot, but but what I just experienced with le has got me questioning some things for sure. Like it's got me, it's got like this possibility thing creeping into my mind. I definitely would not have been a believer before this podcast, but I was a pretty even keel kind of rational guy. It seems like, you know what I mean. So it's kind of hard to just think that as many people as he has interviewed that um, you know, like he said, like something weird isn't going on, you know. I think that like the world needs things like Bigfoot somewhat, especially since we're getting in such a a time where everything's getting explored. I know, everybody's like, well, you know, seven eighths of the ocean as you have to be explored. Well, nothing lives down there, so it's not that big of a deal. But like there's not a lot of places on land that people haven't gone and and and looked at and explored, right, So, like you kind of need these unsolved mysteries to kind of keep a little wild out there, you know. Like I kind of crave that idea of I like to fancy that I would be one of the people who ventures onto the frontier. I don't know if that's the case or not. You know, it probably depends on your social situation a lot of other things that happening to you. But like say eighteen fifty right or whatever the data is, Like I kind of like that wild aspect um. Is that true not? I don't know, but either way, like kind of the big frontier now you could say, is like this whole cryptid thing right where, I mean, what else is there to like explore that. People are like, I don't know if that's even a real deal or you know whatever. You know, I don't know if there's an ocean on the other side of that thing, you know, I don't know. It's it's just like you're right, man, it's I think about this a lot with trout fishing, because I'm like, man, it would be so cool to go there or here or whatever. Um I mean, think about this. We went to the Healer last year and walked pretty much as far as we could possibly walk into the wilderness and out, you know what I mean. And we get there and there's camp fires and nails stuck in trees and it's like girls, yeah, and it's like and of course these people, most of them are horsebacking in um, but it's just like, man, and I know, the same thing happens like in some of these huge wilderness areas in the frank Church and all that up north. You know, like dudes are going, you know, thirty miles down a trail and they're still encountering like firings and stuff. And it's just kind of is a little bit disappointing when I think about it, because I think about these wild places that you could go, and I mean, I've got a book called Rocky fly Fish in the Rocky Mountain back Country. I think that's what it is. And this guy is like he's all businessman and he's just like a straight up like marathon hiker slash of fly fisher. And he'll like he'll do like a hundred mile like through like from one road through a mountain range to another road and have somebody pick him up like after walking a hundred miles and fishing like twenty five lakes or whatever. And he'll fish him for just an hour sometimes, you know, and then like right down when he finds And I think about that, and I'm like, man, and he's doing off trail stuff, Like a lot of this stuff is not on trail. He's just going off the maps and going, you know, hopping over from one and another, and I'm like, man, that's some cool wild stuff. But even that guy has been there, you know what I mean. Even that's not really a frontier anymore. You want to know, something that's kind of interesting is that it's not cool up unto a certain point in time. Like if I go somewhere, for instance, and I find, you know, like a coke can, like, well, that's lame. But if I go and find like a piece of Indian Indian pottery, that's freaking cool, you know what I mean. And I guess it's probably because it's a separate civilization from what we live. But even not that, Like sometimes I'll find like an old beer can that has like the pool tab as opposed to you know, a regular like you know whatever. They are a little eight looking things, you know, and like it kind of has look like a little feeling of like, oh that's neat man, Like somebody way back in the day, like well, for instance, we find a ladder stand on public land, we're ticked. You find an old wooden stand, You're like, oh that's cool. It's really weird, you know, you kind of have like these predetermined uh, I don't know, biased against like human interference with stuff. True, man, it's true. I didn't think about that, but it is the truth, man. And I've never found an arrowhead, so I'll just go ahead and rail and that pity r out there for sure. Um man. You know, as far as uh, I really appreciate coming on. Man, that was cool. And I know this is like probably not in the vein of what normally he's able to kind of promote his stuff through, you know, so, um, whether that's a thing that he wanted or not, he was, he still agreed to do this, and we appreciate that. Yeah, And if you're into the stuff, go buy one of his books or something like. Um, I think I'd like to buy a book and maybe a T shirt, you know, like having a big foot T shirt would be cool, especially if it's like legit, not just like something you pick up in Hodgtown. You know. I had a Sasquatch um sure, whatever that Sasquatch show was. I can't remember what it was on Squatch on Discoveries. It was it was full Sasquatching title. I think I can't remember. Anyway, I had a shirt though it's like a big sasquatch on. It was cool. You know, there's a place that Lyle has spoken before when he was talking about, um the place like his speaking engagements at like different festivals and stuff, or I guess he was just talking about different festivals arise. But there's there's a place in Oklahoma and they don't pronounce it this way, so excuse me, but it's called Hanobia O H O N O B I A. I think it's about us. And yeah, I think there is um A lot of that stuff is like forestry land, and we my dad kind of got a wild hair one year a couple of years back, several years ago, not too too long, but a few years back. Um, he kind of found came across this like barely super cheap um you know lease or whatever. And I guess it was on some of that forestry land or not, uh you know, like timbered land or whatever. And so uh he like paid for me and him a spot and we went up there and um put out the bait barrels and it was like it's based on like a quota system, I think, you know, but um, you know, we were gonna get a chance to maybe shoot a bear in Oklahoma, you know. And so we put out these baby barrels and like chaining the tree by all the stuff, put game cameras out, and never went back. There's cameras up there still, I mean they're probably taking at this point because they're at you know these sites that we kind of had to tell the organizer where it was, you know, the guy that kind of organizes all the people on the lease or whatever. But like I'm sure they went and got him or whatever, but like we we never went back. I know. Kind of stinks. It was one of those deals were like because of the quota, there was only like there's only a couple of days that you're gonna probably be able to hunt bears, you know, and so uh, since we weren't able to make it that year, Um, we just never went and got the stuff. Could have been squatching those cameras, could have been that's uh. I mean that that Hanobia, there's a festival there that's like it's like the Bigfoot capital of that whole area. Yeah, so self proclaiming thing or does somebody give you that, and it's a big deal. Look it up. It's a big deal. Like there when when he was talking about the thousands of people that show up to festivals, he was talking about that town. I think because it's a it's weird. There's nothing there, and then all of a sudden, this bigfoot festival comes in and like RV parks light up, and so, yeah, I bet you there's some cool you know, there's lots people hang outside their r vs. Yeah, I bet you Christmas. Well yeah, but it's not Christmas, you know. Yeah, probably some cool big Foot wines RVs and there's all kinds of cool big Foot stuff. I think it gets weird out that some of them festivals. Um, So the question that I'm gonna pose is we leave here is I'd like for you you out there, to let us know through social media or however you fancy letting us know, do you believe in Bigfoot and why or why not. I'd like to hear what some people have to say about this, and if anybody has a story, I would like to hear that you send us an email. I want to see that. So anyway, don't forget to do that, and remember this is your element living in

Save this episode