00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler, and this is and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening on the woods people? I am feeling stressed right now because my wife is in the truck with us, and we are podcasting in the truck again, so stress. Don't even tell us the weather. She she has to make her appearance on the podcast. She likes to talk over me. She likes to not understand the the logistics of check books and things like that. But if I look straightforward, I can still see a little bit of my property here, and that that keeps me a little less stressed. If I just focus through this building right here, Um, casey and I've been out here building a story shed on the new property. Not a she shed, not a she shed. No, So I almost can't even say that word. Um. It's uh. There's a there's a corner that has some deer in it, and probably there right now. We've seen deer in it a couple of times. They're raging the trees you just planted. None of them have antlers. They're raging the trees. They are stealing giant persimmon, two bees, um, and they are pretty sure browsing my entire pear tree away. Um, but they are there and that makes me excited that, uh there are some trees back there that I could hunt. And speaking of hunting out of a tree, we've done the tree stand thing for years now. Um. One thing we've talked about a few times of thinking to pass on this podcast, So we'd like to do some saddle stuff and we have a guy on to convince us that saddles are not all bad and they're not all wedgies everything else, right, casey, Yeah, yeah, man, we got Great Godfrey with tethered on. That's Tethered King too ease at the end. It's okay. But uh, now he's got a pretty cool story and a really neat way of coming into the saddle business. So we'll talk to him a lot about hunting and something about saddles, which is a real Actually how I like to do things. I don't like to like just make something a product thing at all, really, you know. And like one of the cool things about Greg is like the dude is a hunter first and saddlemaker second. He's he makes saddles because he wants to hunt out on one. Yeah, I mean, if you want to see if you want to see her here Gear of View. You can leave the podcast to go to YouTube and see us review gear that we've used for quite some time now. So that's what we uh, that's where we do our gear talk and everything outside of that. When we get something on the podcast we've never had on, we want to hear some hunting stories, you know what I mean? Uh, I mean, heck, we've even got guys that we get on that we've had on before that get new hunting stories every year, like Eric Barber and some of those people, you know. I mean, there's just some friends we have that that are just straight killers. You know, you and I both kind of have friends that used to be straight killers and now they're just dad laughing. It's right time killers now killing, that's right? Oh who wrote that song? Clinton Black had had that song? Squint it's killing, time is killing, it's killing, it is killing. That's that's what we're gonna call this season. Your boy, uh p Wood got got off on you with the the comment about the uh thermal stuff the other night. Did you see that he was wondering if you could put a thermal on a on a spear? Oh? Yeah, no, I think you could for sure, yeah, Actually, I think I replied. I think I told you you needed the head mounted thermal's that way you can, you know, throw your spear not be interfered by optics that were attached. It might affect the trajectory a little bit. Can you really throw a spear accurately? Yeah, I mean to kill it from here to the storage building for sure. Ten yards. You could kill a pig. Yeah, I've done it. You've done it. Would you? Would you be a rabbit? People that under armour own whatever? Yeah? That the the boumrs the under armour Well, first of all, it was just setting up for disaster, right, but uh, like, don't show yourself spearing a bear and then like the bear moaning and dying in the video. It's not good man, it's and I've never shot a bear, but I from what I understand, they all do that whenever after you shoot them, like they're gonna moan until they die. If deer did that, it would be pretty hard to hite to take sometimes. I guarantee you remember that dope. I guess you shot that dough that died like at the foot of stand. Can you imagine any slan? Yeah? Me buck, Yeah, he's in that kind of stuff. Had some weird stuff happened. Then oh yeah, that didn't make the video either on the captured audience here on the podcast. You know that. So uh, maybe one of these days we can make a private video and show you all that. But that, dear, I've never seen anything like this. I shot that deer and it kind of hit him high, but it's still hit long. You know. It wasn't like a spined him and he just dropped. Y'all saw that in the video. Well, we Tyler put a cut in there right there and went straight to me. But what you didn't get is that deer goes ah h h like loud, it's all get out. It's like sounds like a panther's got a hold him, a rabbit or something like. It was creepy, man. I kind of wonder if that's that's like something that younger deer dude. Yeah, maybe because he had a milk on his mouth still, and I was kind of wondering when I I like tried not to watch it, like of course I had to edit it out, so I had to, like which honestly, there was more room I could have left more in there, but there wasn't really a whole lot of like after a deer falls in the ground, it's kind of it's down, you know what I mean. So anyway, but like when I got to that part, I was like clicked off real quick. I was like, Okay, that's good enough. I know, like I could see, like with you in the interview, like that definitely wasn't the coolest thing you ever experienced. When I was watching that footage of you interview after that, Yeah, but you're pretty good with that stuff. It was all right. I mean, it's just that's just what happens. Man. It's a things die, and things make noises when they die, and they take their last breadth, and that's something you kind of have to be real with yourself about if you're gonna be a hunter. I mean, that's just the thing you deal with. And honestly, like you can get a little numb to it really when you have done it for a long time, you know. And I think that maybe that's one of those things, uh, that we kind of have to refresh ourselves about his hunters. Like, you know, sometimes we look at this through hunters gloggles, and if we we don't want to coddle the world out there, just kind of succumb to everyone else's will at the same time, you know, it's it's good to portray yourself as someone who cares about animals, you know for sure? Well, yeah, you plant in trees form out there, they're eating it up. Man, it's right, that's right. I think, Uh, our guest Greg cares about animals a lot too, and he knows what a saddle that you wear is, and he knows what a saddle that you hunt is. And Greg mentioned how much the on x maps app aim into play in Missouri there and like the same deal for me man, in Texas, I was able to send you dots, you're able to send me dots. And since we use the same app, you know, with on x, it was really big part of the game and helped me eventually make plans to get in on uh that Texas public buck that it is, yeah for sure. And then we're kind of getting ready to wrap up the Map Scout Challenge. We've got a couple more that we're gonna go do in some uh some Midwestern kind of states and uh, it's really nice to be able to get on there and look at the hybrid mode where you can see the elevation with like the trees and other stuff that's that's on a piece of property and be able to really kind of pinpoint a spot that you want to go in there and scout and have a feeling you're actually going to be able to use the terrain to your advantage and find a place where big mature bucks are like saddles. That's right, saddles, Like Greg says, Greg hunts saddles out of saddles using his on X map. So that's how you know you're gonna kill him right there. Anyways, Uh, I think that now to be a good time to get to interview Greg. Sounds good, all right, So now on the phone, we've got Greg godfree of tethered Greg, what's happening to man? It's here. It's hot out your way. It is always hot in Savannah, Georgia. We have two seasons out here, probably very similar to East Texas. We have hot and less hot. That's about it. That's not all the cool weather we get there, well, we get three there's about five days in the winter that's butt cold, and then it goes back to not like it's just like that you don't get a break. It's just too cold for five days and then you're back too hot again. So yeah, every once in a while here it'll it'll get it'll get cold. We actually was last year. It wasn't last year, maybe the year before. We got snow and I think it was the first time that it had snowed in like twenty years. And uh, it was pretty cool, was that. Yeah. Normally it's just it's just how hot is it? That's really the weather indicator here. It's just how hot is it? Do you? Is it like stay home and conker down under the fan hot or is it just kind of, you know, mild hot where you're okay going outside? Dude, it's funny that you mentioned that, because that's how I feel a lot. Like we're both Casey and I are both pretty much in between houses right now, and so like you, you can only take so much of being inside a couple hundred square foot during the summer. But at the same time, if you leave your toast man like, you just can't do anything right. You know, it's terrible, it's terrible. So, um, you know, as far as as far as that goes, are you was that the year let's see when when you guys got snow. Is that the year that it like what frosted in the Everglades or something like that. That probably would have been the same year, right, it was the same year. Yep, I remember that. And it was the same year, and it was two or three years ago. Uh, and it was it shut the town down. I mean before I was I'm prayer service military. I was active duty for ten years. And uh, this is the reason I'm in Savannahs because that was my last Feuti station was at Fort Stewart, Georgia. But before we were in Fort Stewart, we were in upstate New York at Fort Drum, which is on the northeast tip of Lake Ontario, about twenty miles south of the Canadian border. So we got snow, like real snow, like wake up and it was three ft of snow, no kidding. And and then and they're prepared for it, right, So when you live up north, those those fellas, they they got the plows on call, and it starts snowing and they're immediately salting and sand in the road, I mean. And it's a well oiled machine. So a three ft snow basically will get you a little bit of snow down, a slowdown in the morning, but by the end of the day or at least the next day, you're you know, you're back full swing of things. Uh six inches of snow up there was like nothing, you know, they just figured it out. But we gotta maybe an inch maybe two inches, and it was like shut down for three days. It was awesome there. That's how That's how it goes in the South, man, Like if you get and and this is one thing that people up north don't know, is that what happens in the South is we get like a thirty four degree rain and then over night it freezes and then it's like way worse than snow, you know what I mean. It's do you wake up next morning and it is slick and you can't tell what's what, and it's bad. So they do make fun of us, and probably rightly so, but they can. It can get pretty dangerous when it's rains and then drops into the teens at night. You know, you're right. So um okay, So I had I had in my notes here to start with a pun, because I like puns a lot. But I'm gonna go ahead and forego that just for the okay, just for both of you guys. Actually, did you kill a deer last year? Man? I killed a few deer last year. Uh? Yeah, I Uh. The biggest deer I shot was in Missouri. Uh public land hunt in in Missouri. Um, that was like a hundred and uh what was it? Eleven point? And UH killed a couple of bucks here in Georgia, smaller ones obviously, And I'm trying to think if I killed one anywhere else. Um, I don't think I did. I think I just killed the three bucks last year. Yeah. Yeah. How many days do you think you put in last year hunting? Who? I put in quite a bit man. Uh. Last year was the first season in my life where I that was my job. So I went full time with Tethered last year. Uh, technically I didn't because I was still still active duty in in the Army until until November. But I was on basically on paid leave for the last three months of my army career. So I was essentially full time Tethered starting late summer. But yeah, so I spent a week in Missouri or excuse me, a week in Michigan to start the season off with the hunting public. Uh, went out there and hunted into publicly and challenge with those guys. And then I spent a week in Missouri, and then I spent four or five days in the Atlanta metro area hunting, hunting suburban white tails. And then of course I hunted a lot just here in Savannah, my you know, my local area. But yeah, so I had three three white hill trips last year, which I mean, I've never never been able to do that before, so that was pretty cool. It's cool, man, it's uh, it's pretty handy that you're you're able to get out of the military about November, you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean I planned it that way, saved up I'd saved up ninety days of leave and and I planned it to wear November where I would get paid all the way through October. So it was super nice, man, not gonna lie it was. It was super nice. Yeah. So okay, so I'm interested in this Missouri bug man, How how did this go down? It was? It was a crazy hunt. Honestly, we hunted with e bikes. The place where we hunted was walk in only or bicycle only, no motorized vehicles whatsoever. And in the in in the state of Missouri, if it's a if it's a seven hundred and fifty watt motor electric motor less, it's still considered a bicycle. Um that's what the federal government has said. This strange. I think that's how it is in Texas too, And it's a very that's like some strange that like they're like, oh, it's still not motorized even though it has but good for you. Yeah, well that that and that's what the federal law says. The federal law says that if it's seven fifty wats are less, then it's a it's a it's a pedal bicycle. It's not classified as a as a motor vehicle. Now some states have changed that, Like we were gonna I was, I think it was Michigan that I was gonna take take the bike, but they specifically say, you know, no electric bikes whatsoever um in in their public lands. But the state of Missouri adheres to the federal standard, which seven or fifty wats, so we're able to use it there, which was pretty cool. So I hunted. I I forget the numbers, but I think I covered like forty something like close to forty miles something like that. Yeah, just because I could go ten miles, ten, ten, twelve, fourteen miles a day on the bike easy and and uh so I covered something like forty miles. But I found I found this buck. Um. This the particular buck that I shot was actually actually shot two bucks on this trip. The first one I made a bad shot. Uh. It was the furthest shot I had ever taken in my life at a white tail. It was thirty four yards. I'd never shot that far at a white tail, and I just I just muffed it. There's just there's no excuse, there's no reason. I just I just screwed up the shot. And uh it is but I I mean, i practiced way further than that, and I'm very confident at forty yards and end. So I just screwed up the shot. Um. You know. So anyway, that was like day when I go out of When I go out of state, I always take the first couple three days and I just scout so that a lot of guys don't like that. They drive from they drive from the southeast, and they drive to Illinois and they go and they immediately hunt. I don't do that. I show up and I scout for the first at least two days. I don't hunt at all, um because what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to find three or four spots that are just dynamite, like the spots that I just wanna that you want to hunt right now. You know, these are the spots where every tree it's bigg around as your thigh and it's shredded. There's there's scrapes the size of a car hood and they're everywhere, and you're thinking, oh my god, that buck is like right here. So I want to find two or three of those spots, and then I want to find four or five spots that are pretty good. They get me pretty excited, and that way I can jump around and play the wind and uh, you know, keep those spots fresh. So I spend two to three days scouting. Well after I did that in Missouri, I found probably five or six spots that were really, really good. And the very first spot that I went to, that's where I muffed the shot. Um Buck came in first morning chasing a doll. It was I don't remember the date, it was early November. He came in two hours after daylight. Uh, came in, gave me an easy shot quartering away at thirty four yards, and I just screwed it up, hit him forward, tracked him for a little while. I never found him. Um, not much blood. Um went back and looked at the video and it was you could tell it was forward in his shoulder and it just didn't look like a fatal hit. So um, we looked for basically the whole dang day. Never found anything except blood. Just a few drops of blood right there at the shot, and that was that was it. Never found my arrow nothing. So so anyway, I backed out and I I ended up finding another deer. Um uh quite a quite a way to ways on the other and the other end of the property. But uh yeah, it kind of That's kind of what I do when I go out of state, is I just kind of bounce around and I like to I like to hunt fresh spots and fresh sign I'm a big believer in the first sit best sit uh strategy that if it's if there's a mature buck in there, you're talking three, four or five year old buck. In my opinion, the more times you go into that area, the less likely you are to get a crack at him. Now, you can always get lucky and there could be a hot dough that pulls him right past you, and absolutely that happens. But um, if you take luck out of it, uh and and you're just hunting that buck, I think the first time you go into his core area is your best chance at getting them. So I like to find a bunch of spots and bounce around and and keep spots fresh, and you know, first sit, best sit. So that's the way. That's what I did in Missouri and it ended up paying off. I had the crack at two pope and young animals, which is pretty dangn cool. Yeah, and that's that's awesome, and that's I mean, you can't aswer much more than that. But I'm gonna throw a little wrench in your system because I'm kind of the other guy. I like to feel like I'm hunting the whole time and making the most of my time, which uh, I definitely am not hide to that. It's just that's kind of been my experience so far. I'm always willing to kind of learn and do new stuff. So I want to kind of get your justification for this. When you go in and you say you're a believer in. You know, first time in, best time in, um, the time you go in and scout that place, is that not your first time in? So I I'm always I'm only looking at at edges. I'm never diving deep down into where I think that you're gonna be. So what I'll do is if I'm going into an area and like, so let's say, just for just for an example, there's this saddle that I want to hunt, and it's a quarter mile from the road and I'm not seeing any sign anything at all. What I'll do is, as soon as I started getting close to that saddle or a betting area or a food source or whatever, it doesn't really matter what the location is, whatever area is that I want to check out. Once I started getting close, if I start to see what I'm looking for, like rubs and scrapes, then I'm immediately leaving. I'm not going in, and I'm not doing what a law lot of guys would do at that point. So if I was gonna hunt that spot, what I would do is I would go in and I just when I started to see the sign, then I would basically kind of move around a little bit more find the perfect ambush location, and then I would go ahead and hunt. Well, I don't do that. I just go in and I find the edge of it, the edge. As soon as I feel like, man, I've located a mature buck, that's when I get out. And uh, there might be two or three days in between where I before I come back and hunt that spot, and if it's at the if I don't hunt that spot till the end of my trip, I mean, it might be six days before I go back in there, and at that point I think it's probably fresh. Now. Am I saying that I'm right, No, that I'm the I mean there's lots and lots and lots of guys that go in and they hunt one spot, like you said, and they do well. So I'm not saying that mine is the only only way to do it or the best way. That's just the way I prefer to do it. Because I also don't like to sit in the same spot over and over again, because I get bored if you board looking at the same stuff, and so I like to move around. And that's that's both the blessing and a curse, right, I mean, because we all know if you're in a if you're in a high percentage area. And one strategy is, hey, if I sit here for every every hour of daylight for the next five or six days, there's a good chance I'm gonna get that dude coming in here in daylight. So there's that strategy too. I've hunted that way in the past two I just have found as I've gotten older and more experienced, and I know myself that I get bored that way, and so I like to I like to move around a little bit more. But again, I am not saying this is the the best way or that everyone should hunt that way. It's just something that I found that works for me, and uh, and I like it. I like doing it that way. Well, it's important to be able to identify, like what actually works for you, right, because if you just keep doing things that don't work, you're not gonna kill very many deer and have much success. So on that uh, that Missouri hunt, you know, you had the mishap with the first buck, uh, which I feel you're paying at a missapp with the deer last year too, and it's uh, it haunts me every day until next season. But how how many spots did you have scattered out and what number of spot did you end up killing your buck on? So I had approximately in that spot in Missouri I found probably I'm trying to remember exactly. I think I found three of those what do you want, whatever you wanna call them, like like top notch places, places that were like whoa dynamite, I need to hunt this now? And then I found God, it's Missouri, I mean there's lots of big bucks there. So I found probably half a dozen or more spots that were like pretty good, you know. I was finding rubs, I was finding scrapes, I was finding white oaks that were dropping acorns, I was finding does in the area. I was just find you know, it was good, dear spots, places that I would be happy to hunt, but maybe they weren't like crazy hot or dynamite. So I probably had anywhere from eight to ten spots on my on X maps that were huntable spots. And the spot that I ended up killing the deer was a spot that I found on our second day of scouting, and I didn't hunt it until the what was it the third day of hunting, so that would have been day five of the trip. I didn't go back in there to hunt it until day five and and I actually hunted three different trees in in this little in this little transition area before I found the spot where the buck was. So I kept moving in there, and those those three trees were probably each one was probably only you know, sixty two yards apart. I just kind of kept moving in closer and closer until I finally got tight enough to ours right right in the thick of things. Um. But it took me a little bit of trial and error to figure it out. When you say in the thick of things you're talking about like in his bedding area or closer to where he's uh, you know, traveling to food source or something like that, this particular spot wasn't where this this buck was betted. Uh. There was actually two bucks when I when I got to this third spot, there's actually two bucks betted within about eighty yards of me. I saw them both get up. I didn't know they were there. But this this spot, just the way the terrain set up. Um. It was in between a river and an old overgrown field, um, not even really overgrown, just you know, kind of low like shinhai stuff. And uh, and at this little corner in between the river and that field it that was that was the point where every deer that came through that area they ended up going through that little corner. And it took me two or three sits to to notice that, to see the deer coming from the different areas of the different directions, and they'd all filter truths through this single spot. And like A said it, that was my third spot in that particular area. But uh, the first the first hunt, I sat a ways back, kind of on the edge of the field, and I observed these deer going through that spot, and then I observed some deer going a little bit about sixty seventy yards in between me and that spot. So the second hunt was at that spot about eighty two eight hundred yards closer to what I called the little transition area, and I had some deer come through there, but the bucks weren't coming through that area. So then the next hunt, I moved even further, about sixty eight yards further in, and I was right on top of where they were moving and it was just a transition zone. They weren't betted there. Like I said, there was two bucks that were betted about eighty yards from me that I saw stand up, and they went away from and never you got a shot. But I also had three different books chase those right through there, and so I I just was finally in the right spot. And to be honest, in the southeast where I where I hunt and George h I wouldn't have been able to get away with that. Um. Those deer would have been way, way, way less. Uh. You know, they wouldn't have allowed me to come into their area like that. They would have smelled me, they would have saw me. Are you implying in the area Are you implying the deer in the Midwest aren't as smart as deer in the South. And I mean, if you hunt in the South, you know that our deer like a different species. Man. They're rabbits. Man, they go crazy. They are your right and you know, you get away with more. And when you go to states like Illinois and Missouri and can't you just can get away with more. And it's not that it's easy, but it's easier. It's funner. Yeah, you see, it's a hundred percent funner. And I know that's not a word, but it's smart exactly. It sounds like your game is really really similar to ours. You know. I like that you the way that you um talked about how um, because a lot of guys, okay, let me preface this the right way. A lot of guys will talk about buck betting and how they can move in and get within forty yards and hang quietly and all this stuff, and dude, in the South, that just doesn't work most of the time, you know, And um, I mean we can we do it around here all the time, like we've got to hunt. And this is why I asked you that question because I know, because now that I know you're from Georgia, I know that you probably deal with a similar thing. But I mean, pinpoint in buck betting or any kind of deer betting for us here in Texas on public land is very much a difficult thing, if not impossible, in a lot of situations. Um. I mean, we've got the deer. Just like you said there, Wiley, they don't bet in the same place night after night. So it I mean, it doesn't matter if it's early October or you know, January or whatever it's gonna be. You've gotta hunt places that are pinches, that are transition zones. You've gotta hunt good trails and you've got to hope that the deer comes by you. And I think that, uh, you know, it sounds like that's what you did uh in Missouri. Was you figured out you're moving through that area. It doesn't really matter where they're bedded. If they're coming through in daylight, I'm gonna go kill him on that trail, you know. So I think that's how I feel. I feel like, uh, in the rut in particular, I like to hunt high, high probability pinch points. That's my favorite way to hunt. And uh, many many many years ago, I read an article by Bill Winky that talked about the importance of access and if you can access an area he he talked about. I'm gonnassy. This is like fifteen twenty years ago. This is a long time ago, but uh, he talked about the access was his number one priority when looking for a spot to hunt. He would he would hunt an area with less less obvious sign if he could get in and get out undetected, because then he would never educate those deer. And I really pay attention to that, so I'm always considering my access. Which the first buck that I got on it was just it was awesome. There was there was a cut. Soybean field is all public land, but there was this cut soybean field and there was this huge, uh um clear cut, like a three year old clear cut. So it was all growed up, super thick briars, like you could hardly walk through it. And I'm gonna say it was ten fifteen acres. It was big, and it was about three two yards ish from the soybean field. So this is kind of a no brainer spot, right. It's like they're bedding in the briars and then they're gonna walk through the through the hardwoods and come out in the soybean field. It's kind of real obvious. How the deer we're using that area. Well, that's what the hunters were doing, is they were parking in the afternoons, they were parking up in the soybean field, and then they were they were setting up in that transition area. So they're coming in from the soybean field into the hardwoods and getting you know, a hundred yards from that briar thicket, and it's kind of a real obvious set up. Well, did the opposite. I parked on the back side of the briar thicket and you. Actually, I parked on the other side of the road even and I had to walk under under a bridge and along the river, and nobody was doing that, so I came in from the back side. The access was perfect because I followed the river. So if I have the right wind, the wind is carrying my scent out into the river. There's I'm not blowing anything out um. And then I come in undetected from the back side, and because of that, I'm able to I was able to set up a lot closer to the betting area than the guys that were coming in from the soybean field. So that's why I feel like I was successful, you know, quote unquote successful. I muff the shot, But to me, getting getting in like that in tight on a pope and young animal on your like your first hunt, that's success. That's a big deal to me. So I felt super successful doing that. And it's all about access. It's all about figuring out how you can get in undetected. And to me, it doesn't matter if it's a saddle, a pinch point inside corner on a on a crop field, or a buckbed that you know about. You know, if you're in one of these areas where you can pinpoint these buckbed locations. It's all the same. You gotta get in there undetected, and you gotta you gotta use the wind of your advantage and and you have to be stealthy. So that's that I was able to figure that out in that particular hunt. It's ironic you say that about Bill because I'm pretty sure about ten months ago we had him on the podcast strictly talking about creative access and yeah, yeah, man, I mean we we are on team Bill Winky. That dude, he's gonna he killed more deer than I'll ever see him a life, you know, So, like what a great guy to learn from and then like to take that and then apply it, Like you're talking about and is there a better feeling in the woods? Uh, before you're actually able to shoot a deer, then to get in a tree and be like nothing knows, I'm here, I am a tree ninja right now. Like that is a good feeling to have, and uh, you know, if you can find a way to actually make that happy, and it's you know, the more you can do that, the more success you're gonna have. So um, I guess kind of let's get to the idea of like getting in the tree, right, and you are the tethered guy. You know you uh hunt out of a saddle. I'm assuming you killed this deer with a saddle on. Is that correct? Yep? Yep. So okay, so we got that far, We're good. Um. So in that scenario, you said you were able to get, you know, within eight yards of some bedded bucks you didn't even know we're there. Is that a common thing that you're able to do. Or were you being extra quiet in that scenario because you thought maybe that was a situation or is it just that's the way you're set up lets you get in a tree. So it's a little bit of both. Um. Because my setup is so quiet and um small, lightweight compact, it lends itself to being stealthy and to not make a noise, uh, not doing big, huge movements. Uh So so that's part of it. And then the second part is is I think every hunter would benefit from going into every setup. Assuming he's walking into a bedded buck. You just should You should just access the woods that way. You should walk quietly, You should walk slowly. You should not make big movements with your arms and legs. You should try to be as still as possible while you're climbing, as quiet as possible, avoid ganging metal, avoid dropping. Maybe you should just be That's just part of being a good woodsman, you know, You've got to be quiet and still, and so I treat every hunt that way. I never climb a tree and just peel bark as I'm going up, and I don't, I don't make noise. I just I'm just quiet, you know. I just think that's just the way every hunter should be. Uh. If you're trying to kill a deer, I just assume that there's a buck within fifty or sixty yards of me, and I'm trying to climb quietly. So I do that every hunt. I can count on one hand the number of times that I've actually been close that close to a bedded deer. Um. But I just treat every hunt as if there's a buck right there, what's your climate set up? Well? On this particular hunt, I used climbing sticks with aids. I was using hawk helium uh sticks with a with a three step eight er on it. So I'm short. I'm only five seven um, So if I didn't use eiders, i'd have to carry five sticks to get as high as I want to get, which is weird because in like in you guys know know this, but well in East Texas you all have a lot of walky trees. A lot of times you can't get very high, right yeah, So in in here in Southeast Georgia, I try to hunt at you know, at least even better, just because these deer look up and um, yeah, I so I I obviously I took that same strategy with me to Missouri, um, which is, I don't think it's as necessary there. You can hunt lower and still be successful. Which the buck that I actually shot, I was only about twelve feet off the ground. I felt naked. But this particular setup, it was really brushy and and and like low, low limmy stuff to where if I got high, I wouldn't have any shooting lanes, so I had to stay low. Luckily I had a big tree. I picked a tree with it was it was kind of small, the tree that I climbed, but right behind it, you know, eighteen inches behind it was it just a giant tree, a tree you couldn't even get your arms around. So I basically used that as camo, and I was super low, but I was I still felt pretty hidden, and uh, that's how it worked for for that particular tree. Yeah, I got you. So you decided to hunt lower, and that's something that you're not very used to. Um. Is that something that you took in a consideration, like before you got Missouri and knew you'd kind of have to implement that tactic, or is that something that like in the moment, did you just decide like, Hey, that's the tree I need to be in, and that's how as I can get in the tree. That's exactly what happened. And now, if you remember this part of the story, this was the This was the third tree that I had hunted in this in this particular area, right, So the first hunt in this area I hunted kind of far back and I observed all these deer go into this one spot. The next hunt, I moved a little closer. I moved about halfway, which, in hindsight, Uh, if I could do it again, what I should have done is I should have acted aggressively and went straight up there, but I didn't. I played a little too safe. I ended up being okay, you know, and getting the shot. Still, but in hindsight, I wish I had just gone straight there. But the first spot that I hunted it was a more traditional hardwood setup. I was able to climb this oak tree, you know, twenty and just be as high as I wanted to be. Well, when I moved up into this new area, I had never been into this spot before. I've never been within a hundred and fifty yards of it, or a hundred yards of it. That was about as far as the first tree was. So I'd never been in this area. I didn't know what to expect. And when I got in there, like I said, it was really brushy, kind of low. I don't know what what the names of the trees are out out there, but just really like low, just bushy, brushy, nothing real, nothing real big that I could hunt. There was a few big trees, but they were like giant. I couldn't even get my arms around them, way too big for me to hunt the with the way I do it. Uh So I ended up having out of necessity to hunt lower, just because if I had gone twenty five ft up, I never would have gotten a shot. It was just way too brushy and lemmy. Uh So I had to hunt lower and in that particular scenario, I picked a really small tree, which I can hunt because I hunted out of a saddle. But I was able to hunt there because I felt confident with that big tree behind me acting as camo. Essentially. Uh, you can, yeah, I mean, I don't know that you could have hunted the tree that I was in with the tree stand. But there were other trees in the area that you could have hunted with the tree stand, like a traditional hang on tree stand, But I don't think they would have been in the right spot. They would have been about twenty five yards closer to the river, and twenty five yards closer to the river would have taken me out of the game at least where I ended up shooting this buck. If I had been twenty five yards closer to the river, I would not have gotten a shot at this buck because the way he came and the way that pretty much every deer came in that area that night, they didn't go that close to the river. So you know, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and say, man, I did I did everything right. But in that particular hunt, I went in blind, never been into that spot before, and and I just I got lucky, and I did everything right. I picked the right tree, I was in the right spot, I had the right wind. I just it was just I did everything right and it worked out for me. Dude, I've I've hung a tree stand in some pretty skinny trees. Um, Like, I've got a bracket. You know. It's a bracket system on one of my tree stands, and it's like, um, I put it to where like I can't get the stand into the bracket because the bracket goes around the tree. It's that small. So it's pretty sketchy sometimes. But you know, I don't typically hang too high most of the time. Anyway. I killed three deer on public this year, and they were all probably I probably averaged thirteen to fourteen feet on all of them. And so man, I wish I could hunt that low here in Georgia. Yeah, I mean, what y'all you have a lot of pines there, I'm guessing a lot of yellow ponds, and it's just uh, yeah, these deer, these dear just they look up and if you're not twenty feet up or you know, really sick stuff. Yeah, exactly, pine tree, there's no cover. Yeah, there's no if you're in really thick stuff in the swamps, I can get away with hunting lower. But man, that if I counted thirteen feet, that means I would only have to carry two sticks. That would be awesome. Yeah, I'm carrying these steps right now. They're just single steps, and they're I think Primal made them. And I don't know if they got sued or whatever. I'm not sure if they're online anymore, but I you know, I found them. They were cheap, man, and I I would carry four of them in my backpacks, super light. They're like eight tenths of a pound, you know, and it's it's pretty ideal, man, uh. For and I'm very familiar with those. They're they're really they're really tight. Uh as far as like packing them up. Man, it's like four of those like the size of a football. Dude. It's awesome, man. I started I used them all last year quite a bit. Um. And you know, for us, like we have a lot of hack berries down here, uh, cedar elm trees and that kind of thing. So like we have a ton of brushy trees and when you when you add that into the you know, that's the cover aspect. But there's also this aspect that those trees create steps for you. So you've got in betweens, you know, so you can you can get sixteen eighteen twenty ft in a tree with four of those steps a lot of times if you pick the right tree. So and that's like a big part of the I mean, the big part of the Asian man of killing a deer and a place that we spend a lot of time we're setting up a lot of times is actually staring at like three trees and going okay, which one, you know what I mean, Like how do we make this work? And when you can't trim and stuff like that, which you can't on a lot of public lands, it's like, dude, you gotta pick one that also has shot windows and you know, everything's gotta be right. It's it can be a difficult and and sometimes intimidating task for people who don't do it a whole lot, especially the first thing in the morning too, And like if you've never been somewhere, it's the worst thing. And you know it, Like you show up on a public place you haven't maybe you scouted it, like you talked about, but you haven't ever actually been there and hung in a tree and it's the morning hunt and you're like, Okay, I'm trying to do this with a head lamp running like you know, what do I do? You kind of need tips for that scenario. Yeah, Well that that the It's easy to go back to this Missouri story since we've been talking about that one. But the buck that I shot on the first morning that I that I missed, that messed the shot up. I had never been to this tree before I went in, and this is one of those places where I came in from the opposite side of the road. I walked the river, and as soon as I got into this around this bedding area, I was seeing so much sign and it just felt right. You know why when you walk into those spots and you see in deer trails and you go, man, this is the right spot. You just know it. Well, this was one of those spots. I just knew it. So I backed out. I didn't go any further. I said, there's gonna be there's gonna be a shooter here, guaranteed, no question. So I just backed out immediately because I didn't want to go in and mess it up. Um, I had the wind in my favor. I knew my wind was all blowing out to the river, so I didn't blow this spot up. And I said, I'm i'm I'm not messing with this spot again until I'm ready to hunt it. So I hunted that spot the very first morning, and UH went in blind. I picked. I picked the spot on on X just on terrain. There was this little this little rise, this little terrain line, the terrain feature that went through there, and I just dropped a pen on on on X and then I walked to it in the dark and I picked the tree right there. I was pitch black, no clue. I climbed the tree. I had no clue if I was gonna have any shooting lanes, nothing. You know, it was dark. And it turned out that I did. You know, it was just blind luck that it that it worked out for me. But that also reminds me back when I was living in four Drum uh still in the Army. I was you're able to hunt. Um, you're able to hunt. And what they call the cantonment area, which is like the area on a military base where all the training and everything takes place. UH as long as you do it at least at four at four drum. You could do it if you were an archery equipment. So I I go into this place blind um in the dark, and I picked a tree. I set up, you know, thirty forty minutes before daylight. And then it starts getting daylight and I hear all this noise coming and I'm like, oh man, here it comes. And it's like twenty soldiers through the woods like like working out, and they run like right under me and they go through and they're making all kinds of noise and yelling at each other and you know, working out. They're having a good time running through the woods. And I was like, well that sucks. I had set up on like ten ft from a trail that I didn't see, and they just they blew. They blew my whole hunt up. It was pretty funny. That's funny. Yeah. My brother in law actually is that bass Lewis McCord and uh over in Seattle or Tacoma rather, and he's had kind of similar problems to He said, he'll be up he's got a climber climbing big tall pines or whatever over there, and he's like, yeah, you'll be up there. And then all of a sudden, this you know, giant jeep drives right by on the road and you like, oh, man, I guess today he's ruined. But yeah, so what brought you to the saddle game in the first place? Man, Well, what happened is is is the Army. I joined the Army and my first duty station was in Fort Carson, Colorado, there in Colorado Springs, and it was glorious. I loved every minute of it. But I tried to I tried to bring my Southeast hunting tactics, which was big, heavy climbers and lock ons, over to the rocky mountains and it just didn't work. It was that there was no straight trees that I could put in, you know, get on my climber. They were all weird or wonky you know big uh what are they called? Um? Anyway, I can't remember the name of the tree. But these big, big trees that they don't have a straight section on them, and they're limbs, cotton, big hottenwood yep, that's it. And they were it was hard to hunt. And and then they had you know, all these big evergreens that just don't really make sense for going in and using the climber. It just didn't work, and I was like, man, there's gotta be some kind of way I can hunt these trees with a with a system that's not what I have. And so I I found an old saddle online and I tried it and it worked. It wasn't terribly comfortable, but it got me into places that I couldn't at before and I kind of fell in love with it. And then I started making my own stuff. And then, you know, because at that point in game, this is like two thousand nine, two thousand ten, ten years ago, uh, there wasn't any commercial, commercially available stuff. Really. You could find some stuff, uh second hand through eBay or Craigslist or whatever, like old stuff that had been made, you know, back way back when when there was a few different uh sling style stands or you know, sap tree saddles is what they're called. And um so that's what I found. I found one of those and it worked, and then I started making my own because I was I I also when I was in Colorado, I was I was a you know, an ultra light backpacker. I was hiking the mountains. I was going up doing a lot of trout fishing at them, and the alpine lakes up in the Rockies and in it was amazing. I would take my dog. I had a yellow lab. I'd take my yellow lab and we'd go up there and we'd camp. We'd go to a lake and camp for two or three days and just try out fish every It was a man, it was. It was so incredible that I'm a high country fly fish and junkie. Man. I love it stuff. Yes, yes, it was awesome. But you know then, it's like every ounce you take into the woods, you you think about it because you know that you're about to climb that mountain and every pound I forget the math, but I think it's like every pound on your back is like eight pounds on your feet. Um when the smart scientists people figured it out. So you really start to think about those things when you're when you're out west and you know that you're going long distance and a lot of elevation gain, and so it's like, man, do I really want to carry that, you know? Or or this tent is is is one pound six ounces? Or I can buy this tent you know, this four ounces lighter? You know, And you start thinking through those things. At least I did, and I kind of imported that into my elevated hunting tools. I started looking at really lightweight materials that were really strong and cutting out all the excess and I just started making stuff that worked for me that was super light and that's really how I got into it, and I spent the last ten years kind of perfecting it. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome, man. So uh, you know, I'm glad to hear that, because there are guys that get into things, um sometimes as investors, you know what I mean. And so it's good. It's good to uh. And that's one thing that's great about the hunting community. Man. A lot of times it's like you've got these business owners that create great products based out of necessity, you know, out of what fits their hunting style. So, uh, that makes me excited that you uh kind of took a took a passion um and did something with it. I mean, it's it's very similar in a way to to like a musician or somebody like that that would have this passion for something and try to make it better, you know what I mean. And uh, that's why that's that ends up being a commercial product. But still it's it's a good one. You know what I mean. Yeah, absolutely. When we launched, uh, when we launched heethered in Tighten, we said it was me and my me and my my business partner and my you know, one of my best friends in the world, Ernie. He launched Heather together, and we said, you know, hey, let's what what if what if we made the right the stuff that we wanted and then like we made it exactly like we wanted it, with all the materials, the manufactured the right way, and then we were like, man, if we could sell a couple hundred of them, we could get all our stuff for free. So it was totally selfish. We just wanted to build our perfect saddle. That's what we wanted. And then you know, we were we didn't really anticipate it turning into a real business, but it did. It was just like a happy accident, right we were We totally just wanted the stuff that we wanted, but we couldn't We couldn't build it without you know, like everybody wanted us to buy two hundred pieces or three d pieces or five pieces, and we're like, man, I can't afford that, So I guess we're gonna sell some of them and maybe we can figure out a way to sell it. So how many since since you started hunting on saddles, how many front and rear wedgies have you had? You know, the first, the original, the original saddles that most people got into it. They were affectionately called the Camo diapers because that's kind of what they look like going through the woods. Uh. Yeah, definitely a thing. And when you when you do like I do and try to go as minimal ass as possible with super lightweight stuff and just the bare, the bare minimum, then you do end up flirting with the the safety line. Sometimes. Okay, either I can't spell or you can't spell? Is that really how you spell tethered? No, it's it's definitely not. We thought it was a good idea that it would it would make it more unique. And to be honest, we couldn't buy tethered t E T H E R E D dot com. It wasn't available. So we're like, oh, we'll just change the spelling and then we'll be able to get it. Yeah, it turns into a nightmare when you're like, hey, email me, you know Joe at tether nation dot com and they're like, huh, how do you spending and you're like, t yeah, it's great from a marketing perspective and terrible from a from a real world perspective. I thought it was because like you had a lot of guys like me, you know, kind of like white on top and tiny, tiny butts, you know, and you can't couldn't fit the whole word across the back of the saddle, so you had to take a couple of letters out to where you could fit the whole brand on there. You know. You know what, I think I'm gonna steal that idea and now I'm just gonna tell people we we love lightweight stuff so much we even cut out the excess words you letters. That's awesome, man. So uh so yeah, it's uh, it's it's you know something that Casey and I have definitely looked at. Um. I'm trying to think, is there something I know there's white collar and blue collar, but is there's something below blue collar? Um? Because whatever that is, that's what we are. And so we're using stands that may not be technically approved safety wise, but we've got the you know, these old stands and that kind of thing, just because you know, I mean, that's just the world we live in right now. We uh, we don't have a very successful business, so we've got a somewhat successful business and so uh, you know, for us, we are definitely it's something that we're looking at, but we want to come at this with a little bit of skepticism because that's what uh uh some rednecks would do. And you know, the the wedgies, Um, I don't. I'm not afraid of the diaper. Look, you know what I mean, Like it's not something that um probably want to be putting on our YouTube an just a you know, me and a diaper or whatever, but like, I'm not afraid of that. Look, if it's something that works for me. Casey can attest to this, but I'm really not care. I don't care a whole lot about what people say about me. But you know, there are other things like, for instance, we uh we started shooting some really sharp broadheads last year Day six broadheads and it is you know, yeah, and so uh and the arrows are great too, you know, heavy arrows and the way they're built. But anyway, so you know, when I think about like if you're gonna if you're gonna shoot right side of the tree and then all of a sudden, buck takes the trail that goes to the left side of tree. Tree, You've got to bring your bow over. Um, I guess that's your bridge. From what understand maybe, uh, where the chances that you cut that sucker and you're you know, headed down the tree pretty quick. That's a great question. There was so many people that asked that question. So what the best way for me to answer is with the video I actually filmed that I set up on in my saddle about six inches off the ground, and I took a fresh out of the package slick trick broadhead, and I tied myself in and I and I started hitting different materials, different ropes with the broadhead because because I wanted to know it's a realistic thing, like you could. First of all, I used to say, oh, you can't do that, It's impossible. You never do it. So the first part of the video, I like move my my bowl around and got you know, you, if you watched the video, you kind of see how I did it. And I was like, yeah, okay, this this actually is a real life something that we should be concerned about. So I tied up like five or six different ropes and you know, constructed with different materials, and I started slamming them with the uh with the slick trick. The first thing I would do is just kind of you know, like real easily, just kind of naked underload though, right, you know, so it's it's tolden my whole body weight, so it's tight. And so I just naked and and almost none of the ropes even flinched at that. And then so the next time I would like grab the arrow and I hit it pretty hard, like way harder than you would hit it in a hunting scenario. And then I started sawing on it. And most of the commercially available ropes that that people are using for saddle hunting, you could cut. I was able to cut halfway through with a broadhead before there was even any semblance of failure. So the I guess, long story short is you have to be doing something really really crazy in order for that scenario to play out, and you actually get hurt. These things are they're not gonna you could take a haval onto these not then you we all know how sharp those day have a long knives are, and you could you could hit it hit one of these ropes with a haveval on and you would not fall. They're they're they're that strong. Okay, So when you're looking at that, is that called called the bridge? Is that what it's called? What Tyler said, Well, it go, yeah, either the either the bridge or the tether. Possible to hit your your tether rope or your bridge rope. And this scenario we'll call him tether for sure. Just okay. One of the things that UM comes to mind a lot when I start looking at people with saddle setups, is like, there's a lot of components. It seems like where you've got you know, I don't know. Sometimes you have like a lineman's belt and you've got the actual saddle on your body, and then you've got this a little brackety thing the rope runs through, you know, your tether runs through, and then that thing goes around the tree and all is it? Is it a deal where it is pretty complicated and it's kind of something you really have to learn or is it pretty intuitive once you start doing it. It's definitely pretty intuitive once you start doing it. So now, so let's let's back up a little bit, and let's let's pretend that none of us are hunters, and we will compare, will compare the two what the same world? Man? Yeah, it's a terrible life. I don't want to I don't want to live in it very long. To make this quick, so so we you could make the same exact argument from the tree stand perspective. Right. So, now you've got you've got this tree stand, this big hunk of metal. You know, just imagine yourself as a vegan. I know, hard to do, but just imagine you're looking at these two systems on the ground. You've got this big this big tree stand. You've got your bracket or your ratchet strap. You've got your safety harness, You've got your your safety harness, you know thing. Safety harness. By the way, that's almost an impossible thing to do. Well. So if you're gonna be safe, right, I mean, if you're gonna compare apples to apples with the saddle, you gotta you gotta throw in your safety hull. I just can't get into it very easy. Yeah, I never liked them. I always felt restricted in them. But um but but but you see my point. You know, if you've got all this other stuff that you're just used to, well, the saddle you don't have any more stuff. I mean, you've got a lineman belt, which if you're climbing mobile with the tree stand, you should have alignement belt anyways, just because you know, even if you don't care about the safety as it just makes it easier to hang your sticks or your you know, your whatever with a lineman belt, so you gotta carry that. Your safety harness has a tether, so you know, the saddle hunter is going to carry a tether too. You know, your tree stand, your saddle. You really don't have any extra stuff. It's just it's it's something you're not used to, and it seems like there's a lot more to the system than there actually is. But if you back out a little bit and you look at it objectively, you're really carrying like the same type of things that you carry with the tree stand. It's just you're just eliminating a lot of metal with the saddle. Yeah. Just it makes makes sense for sure. And and if it's okay with you, I'll get out of vegan state now and go back to hunter state. Say goodness, so go wash my hands. So as a hunter from the South, uh, we and I can speak for Casey on this. We tend to get hold and um, you know, I would assume that there's some circulation issues possibly um as a skeptic, that would happen with sitting in a saddle. And my toes were out size FOURT teen shoe and so it's, uh, my toes. It takes a long time for blood to get from my heart to my toes, you know what I mean, So they get cold? Uh? Is that is that anymore of an issue? Truthfully? No? No, So what where you can see the issue in a saddle, believe it or not, is not in your feet Because of the way most people use the saddle. Most people will like sit down into it, which when you when you're sitting, you kind of have your knees kind of into the tree, right, and so you're kind of sitting on your knees and then what what the other position that we call it is leaning where you basically extend your legs where they're straight and you just kind of lean into your saddle and you don't really sit into it. Well, when your legs are straight like that, you don't restricting any blood flow. So when you're alternating positions like that, you know, every thirty minutes, every forty minutes every hour whatever, whenever you get you know, fatigued and you want to change positions. Uh, the blood flow for me actually is better to my feet, and my feet don't get his cold. Where you can get a little chilly is in your butt because if you if you, if it's really cold out and you've got that mesh saddle on, now that is compressing all of the installation underneath your butt. So if there's any wind at all and you're sitting in wind, you can get you know what we call CBS or cold butt syndrome. Uh. So that's that's where you can really notice the temperature difference. For me, I never my feet never get cold, but my my butt does occasionally get cold. Yeah, that was actually CBS one of the fake news. Uh, I can't remember, if not who knows anymore. That's how I understand that unless you listening on the podcast only places you get real news around here. But uh, that was actually my next question was you know, the thing that keeps you warm is loft, right, and then you have the saddle compress and so like whenever you go on like a Midwestern rudd hunter, you know, say you're out even like say, you don't get it done the first week in November and you gotta make it out you know later. Uh, and the temperatures are dropping. Uh, that's gonna compress, like all the loft that you have around your rear. Is there a way to like wear clothing around the saddle or has that got to be your exterior? Well, it it doesn't have to be your exterior, um, but it's most most most guys, like guys are gonna use it as your exterior because you you have to modify your clothing a little bit. And most guys don't want to poke holes in there and there, and they're nice outer garments. You know, this can be pretty expensive, so most guys don't want to do that. But uh, yeah, I mean it's it's something you've got to consider, right, There's no perfect system. Every system has, you know, advantages and disadvantages. And when you when you build things like I like them to be built, which is super ultra light, so I include mesh and and lightweight materials. Yeah, that's that's one of the downsides. If it's really cold, you you can absolutely compress your insulation. And you're right. The way insulation works is with loft that traps warm air. Well, if you don't give your insulation the ability to do his job, you're you're gonna get cold. So uh, some guys will will wear you know, big jackets that hang down over their butt. Um. There's products you can buy, uh that that will cover the saddle and insulate it. You could make it, make your own. I know guys that have made their own looking done all this work to not make it look like a dipper, and then we're gonna put something on that is a diver over. You are correct, But in the teams you don't have to worry about it, I mean, and like, yeah, I'm gonna say maybe maybe a little warmer than that I wanta say. And above you don't really have to worry too much about it. But below below that you're gonna have to start thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, well I saw. I'm thinking. The next tether product is is a pant that has like a open fly system where tethered to the tree through right, and that's gotta be the next thing coming right, Yeah, we weren't supposed to release that until later this year. So speaking of open fly, uh, Tyler is a tiny bladdered fellow, this is something we all know. Uh, and he's gonna be urinating. It's from the bladder though, that's tiny, So from the from the stand, you know, I know it's got to be a question people ask a lot, right, like going to the bathroom all the time. Yeah, for sure. So I guess number two is just out which you're gonna have to climb down either way. But like if you're going number one, is it fairly feasible thing to do? So it's it's so it depends on your setup if you use. UM. There's kind of two camps in the saddle hunting world. You've got the pivots style platform guys that use like the little miniature tree stands um. And then there's the there's the ring style platform guys that use like a ring of steps around the tree. Uh. If you're a so you can imagine like um, like screwing steps. Imagine if you put five or six of them around a tree. You now have this ring around the tree that you can use to maneuver for a shot. If you hunt from a ring style platform, is it's not It's not that you can't do it, it's a little bit more challenging. To pee, you gotta kind of suck yourself up to the tree, turn to left or right, and you know, let it fly. If you hunt from a pivot style platform like the Predator platform that Tethered makes, you know, a little miniature tree stand, you basically just stand up, turned to the side and let it fly. It's as it's as easy as pan from a tree stand. Uh. I actually do know dues that have taken dumps from sound. I wouldn't recommend it because you have to you basically you kind of move it. What they did is they moved it up to like their lower back and almost like under their armpits kind of deal. And then kind of hey they did get rang and tang hang. You know what I'm saying. They just want to fly. Yeah, that's definitely a safety hazard. But hey man, I more than one occasion have I been in the situation where it ain't getting down, you know, like it's it's bad. So yeah, it can definitely be something that you need to consider, at least before you end up in that situation. Can you. Uh, Okay, I'm not really familiar with this. Suity isn't all citles or not? I don't really know, but do you have that little kong thing or whatever that's on the tether that titans or loosens depending on your set up, on your rig. I love those things, um so. So they're called mechanical prussics, and everyone is kind of familiar. Well, most people are familiar with the Prussing not, which is just a friction hitch, a small diameter cord looped around a larger diam under chord and you know, when you apply weight to it, it locks. That's it's called a Prussic knot. Well, what you mentioned is the cong there's really there's really two of them. There's one called the Ropeman and one called the cong and uh, it's basically a replacement for your Prussic loop. Well, if you've ever used Prussic loops, especially for alignment belt when you're climbing a tree and you're trying to adjust your alignment belt as you're climbing, you know how much of a pain in the butt they can be. You know, they find up, it takes two hands, you gotta pull yourself. It's just a pain in the butt. Well, those mechanical prussics or ascenders, like the Ropeman or the cong they totally eliminate that. So I use one of those on every single hunt. I love them. Yes they're mechanical, Yes they're metal, but to me, the benefit that they that they give you far outweighs the little bit of weight penalty and the introduction of um metal, you know, because I like to eliminate metal wherever possible, because you know, it's inevitable. You you drop it at claims, it swings, it claims it just I don't like introducing things into my system that can allow noise, so I eliminate it wherever possible. But that's one place where I'm willing to take the risk because it is so useful. We you know, it's funny about that. Man is we started and I say, we like the saddle hunting community. We started introducing that into the greater hunting community seven or eight years ago when we found it and stole it from the rock climbing industry. Well, that that product, it's it's a it's an a sender, that's the technical name for and it's for ascending ropes in a in like a mountain climbing or repelling type scenario. Well, we are a small, brand new hunting community We are now the number one North American retailer of those rope those rope men ascenders, because hunters have figured out now with us teaching them how helpful they are, and and we sell more of them than anybody else in North America. Of one of those little things run they're like, oh, that's not bad. Yeah, they're like forty bucks. And and it's one of those deals where the company they basically tell you what price you have to sell it for. We would sell them for less, but they won't let us. Yeah. Yeah, So okay, so this this probably is more kind of production orient question here, like that you're anything to do right now if you uh if your Apple at least um is to make a product that's like obsolete or breaks really easily and um, you know like in a couple of years maybe, so that like you don't have to uh you know, build something that lasts a lifetime and you miss out on possible you know, making more money. So you can't really make a product that breaks, right Like that's a pretty big deal for for your product is something that uh, um, you know, it's pretty much guaranteed that it's going to hang you in the tree and keep you safe. Um, so you know what what kind of lie guarantee do you give with the saddle? Well? I have joked about this many times that we picked a terrible business model to get into because I mean, like the tree stand companies, they want to sell you a tree stand for every single spot you want to hunt. I only need to sell you one for your life. So unless you lose it or lend it to your buddy and he just never gives it back. I mean, you don't really ever need to buy another one. It'll last forever. Now let me caveat that. Well, let me let me give the legal answer here. Um the I can't remember which agency, but it's like OSHA or um, one of those one of those agencies. They say that any safety related equipment should be retired after five years. Right, So that's gonna be my answer is that you should buy a new saddle every five years. Yeah, I got you. That's that's a pretty good answer for you too. It helps you out y'all. Y'all smelling what I'm setting, you're cooking good stuff. So I guess if you were completely abiding by that rule. But like say, uh, you're on your four and you're like you know what, I would like to make this thing just a little bit safer. Can you replace just certain components? Absolutely, and and like you know, say your tether or something like that, that risk component there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean, uh, I replace my ropes every three or four years, you know, just just because even though I probably don't need to, um, but they start to get a braided, they start to look a little rough. At that point in time, I've drugged two or three deer out with them and they're they got their bloody, or I've dropped them in the mud a whole bunch and they're they're kind of nasty looking. So I replace mine every few years. But it's not something that you really have to do. Uh. The other thing that I should probably add to that is with with something like a harness. The that agency also said is that if if your harness ever arrests a fall, it should be replaced immediately. So if you were to fall, like even a tree stand safety harness, they it's the same deal. Like, if you fall and that safety harness arrest your fault, well you're supposed to replace it immediately. Whether or not is actually ineffective anymore, Who knows that's just the guidelines that the safety police puts out there. Uh so I'm gonna echo that. You know, hey, if you if it does arrest a fall, which if you're using it properly, you know you should never be in that scenario anyway. But let's just say something happened and you know you did you did fall for some reason, and it did arrest your fall way, you should probably replace it. But yes, to answer your question, there are there are a lot of a lot of things on saddles, not just tethered products, but just I'm I'm speaking in general, this saddle hunting style in general. A lot of those things are easily user replaceable ropes and stuff like that. Carabine Ers like you should always be inspecting the those things, and I mean, your life depends on it. If your carabiner has a crack, you know, replace it cost fifteen bucks, you know, a big deal. Go get another one. My carabaner g has a crack. I'm getting down exactly. You know, look look at your saddle. You should you should be looking at these things. And if it's got ripped cuts, terrors, you know, you shouldn't trust your life to that. And I don't care who made it, if if Tether made it or any other company, or if it's a if it's a tree stand, you know you should be looking at those things, checking the bolts and nuts and making sure everything is working. I mean, we're we're all trusting our lives to these things, and it's you know, a five minute inspection a couple of times a year is really easy to do and it can save your lives, especially when you're sitting in a tree stand for two hours waiting on a deer to come. Like, surely you can do an inspection. You're sitt up there board right, so, uh whenever somebody, Okay, so let's sell you some saddles. Okay. So if you go to Tether's website, which I guess is it's a consumer direct deal, right, So you go to website, can you buy everything you need directly there? Or like or people they have to go buy ropes elsewhere or like uh pru sis you know, metal pre scs or whatever in a separate spot, or they have like a complete kit. Yeah. So one of the reasons why we started Tethered was because we wanted to be a one stop shop for the saddle hunter back in back in the day before tethered, you had to do that and it was really I mean, I guess part of it was fun because you did a lot of research and you're like, oh, I want to try this rope and this carabeer and this combo and stuff like that, and that was that was There was some fun in that, but you end up paying more because you're paying shipping from all these different places. And so we we decided to get rid of that, and we decided to be We wanted somebody that wanted to learn to saddle hunt, they could come to tether and get their saddle, their platform, the ropes, to care everything. You can get everything that you need uh to to to be a saddle hunter at tethered Cool cool and uh if someone does want to get that stuff, what's is the tethered nation dot com. So where it's at, Yeah, tether nation dot com. And it's pretty much that if they want to check out. I would encourage folks. If you if you haven't uh, if you if you don't really know much about saddle hunting, maybe the first time you've heard about it or you're you know, your whatever, I would check out YouTube, the tether Nation YouTube channel. There's a bunch of YouTube channels out there. I have a YouTube channel where I talked about earlier. I talked about cutting those tethers with my slick trick, and that video is there. You can find that. You can find I have videos about how to shoot from it. You know, can you really shoot three hundred sixty degrees around the tree? How do you use the tree to cammo yourself? I mean all that stuff. I've done lots and lots of content on YouTube about that, so there's no excuse for people not to be informed. It's all there as long as you just jump on YouTube and do some searching and you'll find my channel and then you can learn everything you want to know. Awesome. We'll definitely linked to all that stuff below. Man Um, Do you have anything about or any tips or a video about how to film from a saddle because that's a big part of our game, you know, yep, sure do. I sell film and I filmed every single hunt, every single white tail hunt for the past two seasons, maybe three seasons. Is that on the YouTube channel as well? It sure is? Actually, uh, the Missouri hunt that I told you about, that's on my YouTube channel. I got to two videos and I show you can go see that buck that I killed. That's all there. I'm watching that while I'm rocking the baby tonight for sure. Yeah. Cool, alright, man, So it's all there. Cool dude. Well, we'll definitely link it to that stuff below. Final question. You you've been like real honest and real frank about stuff and that dude, we love it. Man, Thank you so much, by the way for coming on and talking with us, hanging out and stuff. Um is saddle hunting or hunting from a saddle, a tree saddle, whatever you want to call it? Is it the answer or is it uh? A tool in the toolbox for your average hunter. It's a tool in the toolbox. I mean a golfer carries more than one club, right, I mean a putter works in some scenarios and sometimes you need the driver. Well, in my opinion, if you're serious about about white tails, you need to have UH an arsenal. You need to have a tool kit. You need to have a bunch of clubs in your bag, and a saddle is one of those tools. I mean, there are some there are hunts that I have gone on that I would not have been successful if I did not have a saddle. Now, I would say that's that's very few and far between, as as as far as like most places, I could have made it happen with a different type of elevated hunting tool, whether that was a climber or a lock on tree stand or a ladder stand or whatever. But there are some scenarios where the saddle was absolutely the right tool and if I didn't have it, I probably wouldn't have been successful. So there, it's a tool in the toolkit, and you don't have to be like me where you hunt out of it pretty much every single time. You know that you could be more normal and just use it when it makes sense and then use the ladder stand when the ladder stand makes sense. But uh, if you're serious about white tail and and you want to put the odds in your favor, it's something you should consider. And I don't care if you buy my stuff for somebody else's stuff. That's not really the point. The point is that there are tools out there that can make you more efficient and make you a better hunter, frankly, and you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't learn about them and In my opinion, saddle hunting is one of those tools that has made hunters more efficient, lighter, more stealthy, and you you kind of owe it to yourself to at least check it out. And maybe you want to make your own stuff, maybe you want to buy somebody else. I don't care, but you should all get on and at least, you know, jump on some some tools like YouTube and learn about it and then you can make an informed decision. Yeah, man, that is a good answer. I knew I like you about five minutes into this thing, man. So hey, Greg, again, thanks so much for uh for how and on with us and having chat about this stuff. Dude, I think I've learned some and you've You've helped this skeptic brain have a little bit of resolution here, So I appreciate it. Man. Awesome. Well, I really appreciate the opportunity, man, any time I can get on and talk to people about hunting and help them be kind of more efficient, and I just love doing it. And I've been doing it now for freaking ten years, you know, and I just I just love I love helping hunters get better at their craft. And so hopefully, hopefully your listeners will maybe pick something up that make them a little bit better this fall. I guarantee it. Man, next time we get on, we're gonna talk about fly fishing instead of hunting. So we're having that talk soon too. Man. Man, I can send you some onex pens around four around uh Colorado Springs, Colorado, where you could catch as many as you want to catch. And these are naturals too, these aren't stock fishing. Yes, we haven't done that yet. I thought I thought you're gonna do that. Well, I go so sorry anyway, saying, well, maybe we need to cha chase some uh uh you know, some Georgia brook trout together some time or something. That's what we should try to incorporate a saddle into that somewhere or another up the awesome brother. Well again, man, we appreciate it, and uh, we'll talk to you later, all right, thanks for having me on. Yeah, one time I wanted to write a song called in the Pines. It started it. Yeah, there's a song at Camp Deer and called in the Pines. Really yeah, Well I guess I won't do that. I mean you could. You can make the uh college life still here back there, peanut, very quiet person Dainty Young. Yeah, it's a it's a silly song they sing. Yeah, I have to get it recording for you cast I probably sing it the next time that she's here. In fact, that's how we should get our wives on the podcast for is to do silly songs. Yes, that would be good, That would be good idea. But Greg probably can sing pretty good too, just knowing yeah, he's got that country accident. Well, if it's something that if you've always got a crotch squeen he's going on, and then you probably can sing pretty high he said, there's yeah. But now, I'll dude, that guy is pretty cool and it is a real deal hunter. So I appreciate the knowledge that he had to share. Um, and I'm really ready to just hear some more hunting stories from him. So next time we're probably gonna talk less about saddles and just more about the cool stuff he's done. Yeah, it was good to get to know man. I like to get to know people that are for real about it and like to do it and just normal people, which you know, he is man, and uh, you know, it's it's crazy how many military people we've met that are hunters as well. You know that's kind of like obviously that seems like a thing that would go hand in hand, but at the same time, the military's uh takes a lot of your time, and so like getting to hunt, which I think Greg kind of expressed in the beginning, is uh definitely a privilege that doesn't happen all the time when you're in the military. And I think our buddy Anthony would kind of attest to that. Sometimes he he doesn't know what November looks for him usually, And yeah, like last year, and this was the honest truth, you didn't know what was gonna happen in November. I'm gonna say he's being honest. Um We'll let him pop in and tell us. But he didn't know if he's gonna get to hunt it all November, Right, That's why I like he went and shot anything he could in Nebraska, and I'm glad he did because then we got the velvet book out of it. But then he just goes off and shoots three bucks in the month of November. I think he started hunting out of his saddle last year, right, he did? In fact, it is it really Yeah, I didn't know that, um so, And did he kill all three of those bucks out of a saddle. Now, I don't think the Texas one, you don't think he shot, yeah, or maybe out of Texas, South Texas, but yeah, probably the uh what's the one of those called send arrows? Now? All those um the powered truck beds that go up high high, Yeah, those are pretty slip there. In the nineties, those were like the baddest thing. You just had, like a flatbed after three fifty with a high lift them back. Well, that ain't the world we live in. So we live in East Texas where there's no lifts and no DearS. So yeah, no, it's uh. I definitely am interested in what you said at the end, talking some some high country fishing with him at some point, because I don't I don't get on my personal Instagram a whole lot, but I got on the other day and I was for some reason. I saw my description and it was like, man, that's a good description to men. You described yourself well, but it talks about in the description that I'm a fly fishing aficionado. Aficionado doesn't mean you know a lot about it. I think it's I don't know. I think it's more that you just are affectionately love it. Okay, so that's what wouldn't that be affection Uh yeah, I think you're right, yeah, uh, but it's not fly fishing. It was it was like a small stream, small stream, that's right. Yeah, I've read you by a lot. Have you yead all time? Thanks? That's good. But yeah, small streams. I love small streams and small fish because they buy a lot and they make it fun, right, man. So it's kind of long years to real grand cutties. It don't matter, no, dude. It's like that's the reason we talked about earlier, Like you go to the Midwest because there's lots of deer and they're fun to hunt, right, And it's kind of like the same thing with small streams. Like you can go to the San Juan and not get to buy it all day possibly, you know. But or you can go to like one of the high feeder streams to some you know, Rio Grand River or whatever, and it's just cool colored up fish. Man. But the size of the critters is inverted. That's true. You go to the Midwest, there's giant bucks and there's more of them, whereas we kind of live in the the small stream esque area. Of Texas where tinies and really not many of them. So it's like, uh, it's like so high alpine that there's there's not fertile. Have you heard the phrase the best of both worlds? I have the worst of both worlds. No, it's it's good here and honestly like it. It's fun and it's what makes it. If it wasn't challenging, it wouldn't be as fun. It would still be fair. Yeah, Like if I lived in southern Iowa, it would still be a blast. Yeah, and just be you wouldn't want to go anywhere else, that's right. Yeah, So uh, you know, one thing I was saying is or the one thing I was thinking, is that, like because we're talking about here in these Texas and the hunting and everything. And he was like, yeah, I hunted some suburban stuff and in Atlanta or whatever last year, and there's other guys that do that or whatever. I just don't understand it, dude, Like DFW does not have suburban deer, you know what I mean? Maybe they do, but that coming dude, Like I lived in Dallas, Man and I never saw a deer anywhere. And I went trying to fish ponds and all kinds of stuff in there, and these people are like, I don't know what it is, but like that. I know, being in the South, deer are typically more skittish. But I almost wonder if like there's something weird in Georgia where they're just either out of country to live in or they just aren't as skittish as just sweet gargia peaches. That's what it is. That's just I don't know. Maybe you plant more peach trees and df dub maybe ye countries if we had pine trees in df W. That's it. That's the difference. Kaylee. As a peach tree, did you know that it uh teeters on the brink of death every three days. N Then I go out and water and it lives. She's very pretty tree. Yeah. Anyway, Uh, speaking of good husbands, if you will answer your phone here in a second, you'll be a good husband. I think your wife just called, right, so we probably should get out of here so you can call her back. Since you got a newborn, probably need to talk to her. But anyway, guys, pretty chate you listening. Don't forget if you haven't subscribed, do that so you can hear more of this stuff. Hopefully this stuff has been a help for you guys. Uh, We've been very careful about what guests and what topics we've covered this year. Um, we're a little less out for numbers right now of you know, podcast downloads and that kind of thing, and more out for how can we help people, and so that's kind of been our m O this spring. So we're not we're not getting them out every single week right now, but things are gonna change soon. We're gonna start a series that um as soon as we can nail down somebody to do a podcast with us, we will promote that and let you know what it is. But it's gonna help all you guys that want to go out west this year, I think. And it's gonna be different but similar to the back country series that we did last year. So pretty excited about that. Anyway, don't forget to subscribe and remember this is your element living in two

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