00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler Jones and you're listening to the Element podcast. M m m m m. What's happening on my woods people? I hope you're staying warm. We are trying. We're pretty warm in this truck right now, fairly fairly warm. My legs get so cold these days, though. Yeah. I think it's just these thin pants and your legs never got I know, I think it's these thin pants. Dad. I need to put some blue jeans on or something. I guess said of these old man wind suits that I wear, uh, bodysuit dickies. Man, it's hard to stay warm. And then yeah, I used to wear those school in high school when you didn't when you violated dress code. Yeah, yeah, well we didn't really have every dress code. It's I don't wear your hair to your neck and um, I'm out no, you know, violence on your shirt or whatever you Uh, yeah, dude, it's uh, it's been cold around here. I mean forty five as a high it's it's freezing an yeah, man, I know, hang, I'm gonna hang a deer. I'll tell you what. Sorry about you all up there further north is all I can say. Ain't about it? You should live in Texas. You know, we eat halapenas that summer. Uh, So I'm going deer hunting here in your second So we're gonna keep this pretty pretty light. But uh, I actually, uh there's uh these things that we get for managed properties, um from Texas biologists, um, and I have a connection to somebody who gets to help manage a property and we get to shoot deer a little bit later than uh the season goes. So I'm pretty excited about it. I'm gonna go try to shoot a dough if they're still out moving around. It's a cold day, it's overcast, so hopefully even though it's kind of late in the morning, there will be some moveing around. We're gonna try to smoke some hogs if we see them, so I might be throwing some backstraps on the grill. Boy, howdy, I'm pretty excited, man. I I thought I was just kind of like to the point where I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna have to fish really hard this year to fill you know what I mean. I'm still going to probably but um, but hopefully this will give me some red meat to get me through some STU season and everything else. I like that. Yeah, that's cool. Cool. I mean maybe maybe STU season already started, but I definitely would eat a stooge today, you know what I mean? So, uh, what else is going on? Well? Today on the podcast, we have another fellow public land hunter who isn't you're what would you say? He isn't like the guy that you see like, oh, consistently having public lan successful lust twenty years from northern Michigan, you know what I mean? Like he's he's a real dude. Man. His name is Chad Sylvester from Exdus Outdoor year. We uh actually got to hang out with Chad, a t a some and really cool, really passionate guy who like Man, I like Chad's story because, um, it's a it's a story a lot of us can identify with where like you kinda um didn't have you hit on straight when you were younger and then man, this guy is driven and determined now and it's like he's better for it, you know what I mean. It's cool, man. I mean that's kind of uh not to get too preachy, but like I like in your walk in your faith man, that's uh like the idea is too for me to send less every day or I had to be better. Uh, and maybe you take a two steps back sometimes day to day, but overall, like you try to become better, you try to serve more, and uh, you're becoming you're becoming a better man as you go through life. And I think that that that story on a secular level is very similar similar, you know, yeah, yeah, and then he kind of ties it into deer hunting pretty good too, you know, like because the suckers working his hail off on some public lane where pretty much deer don't exist, but there are I know, I know like that going like in October sometimes you know, like their their deer there, uh, in like late October. And then all of a sudden, like you just have this small window where like it's so hot, no dear move, and then there's like a cool snap in late October and your camera's light up and then uh, the ruts rut comes and you'll see some bucks here and there, but it's super inconsistent, and then there's a guy on your camera and then you don't see anything that's right, you know, and people raid you for shooting a spike in December. You know, it's like listen dudes, if you only understood like the January it was January January one New Year's Day. Yeah, so that actually that videos out this week, launched um last week. Actually, uh the support has been good though, I know, like I'm surprised after the picture that we posted of you smoking a spike, like people were just like had such a problem with it and even the arrow sticking out of it as it's like you didn't shoot it with an arrow or yeah, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, you know, Like I feel like maybe we've we've had a lot of support over that, but just like a couple of sour apples, you know that, just like you like really, man, I mean, here's the deal. Like I shot the deer because I wanted to shoot the deer. That's the other day and it was legal. Yeah how about that? How about that the ball? I just say, you should shoot you like that? So we're gonna shoot your like that, you know. But anyways, go watch the video because it's coming out of it man, like it was. It was. It was a good morning on public. It was we both we almost both killed We almost both killed three deer. Oh man, like you had two opportunities. I had a big group of deer come in chasing getting chased by a buck that might have been legal, but I couldn't tell if it had little brow times or not, but like it was, it was. They were at five yards and I almost got to kill that morning, and then you killed and just it was so a good morning man. Like that doesn't happen very often for us on pubs, So I was pretty pretty excited. That was a fun video to put together. Whereas some of our like plc s, I'm like that gumming. They're like, we had a great morning, but there's like video footage of a dough that's it. It's like, wait, is that a time? No, it's just just dick. Yeah. But there was a really good buck that came like sixty yards from us. I'm sorry, I can't see it, you know. So I've had I've enjoyed that. Also. One thing I've been enjoying lately is this duck hunting video that we're gonna put out that it's weird because you know, we don't talk a whole lot about duck hunting, but I did get to go video one and there's a really inspiring story that one of the guys that was in the group had and told for this video. So I'm really excited to put that out, like kind of getting me back into my film game, you know what I mean that I've enjoyed so much over the years. So anyway, excited about all that. Um, we're gonna talk to Chad about tactics, um, hunt in big woods, public land ear and uh, maybe some camera tactics as well, because that's pretty natural when you're talking to a guy and knows as much as he does. And like, I don't know if we'll get super detailed for for some people on this on the camera thing, but like Chad, it can literally, um he can spit the jargon to where you're like, hey, dude, English, if you want to bust up in the circuit board, he'd just tell you what's all that you can do? Yeah, so he he knows it, and maybe we do that sometime a little more like detail like a you know, uh instead of a one oh one, it's a two parter, you know or whatever. So anyway, um, yeah, let's get chat on. I guess I don't really know what else to do because I need to go hunting, alright, So now on the phone, we have Chad Sylvester from Exodus outdoor gear. What's happened to Chad? Not too much man, just enjoying the early morning. Get my bay started. Yeah, that's going on, fell us. Not a lot man. We're we think we're cold, you know, we don't know. We don't know the rest of the country. Like I've got friends, uh some in the Midwest and so like that, and I'll text them about something and be like, hey, what's going on, and they're just like trying to stay warm, and I'm thinking me too. But then I realized that y'all's temperatures are like thirty degrees colder than arts are, depending depending on who you talk to. They really like to include the wind chill in there, like, you know, like over accentuate how bad it is. Oh yeah, dude, just like negative seventy today. No it's not. It's like, come on, we can't talk of wind chills here anyway. Um, So you guys are you know, in the middle of this cold, dreary season where we're just like not uh, not able to hunt much at all. Really, I've seen some guys hunting rabbits. We've hunted squirrels and small game a little bit. But as far as deer hunting goes, which is kind of the main point of this podcast, it's, uh, it's pretty pretty bleak out there right now. Um, you guys have just actually released a new camera. How's that going for you? Good man? We uh just launched the the Excess Surrender there. It's been about two weeks now, which is our our Verizon cellular device rising four g LT device um that runs off you know, the Versing network. Um. So yeah, man, it's excited. We've been working on that for oh geez since seventeen, so it's nice to finally have that come to market and get that off our shoulders and get some feedback from the public and oh that's been phenomenal, um. And it's it's kind of cool this time a year to to have a product launch because you know, as you said, the deer woods are kind of closing down and there's not much excitement. I mean, shed seasons trade around the corner. But uh, you know, to have a new product out and have have feedback and kind of keep that excitement going you know, all year round for the deer Woods is is pretty cool. So yeah, for sure, man, that's good. That's good. Um. So you and I we got to speak at a t a quite a bit, and um kind of realized we have similar background and the fact that we played college football, uh not together, but we both played, and uh, can you kind of take us back to uh maybe college football days, uh some of the lessons you might have learned, and then like just kind of, uh just kind of drive us through your story and tell us how you got to where you're at today working with Exodus. Yeah. Man, it was uh, you know, I grew up in a super small town. Um, as you said, a lot you know, very similar to you, in a town of people, super small school. Uh, and it was really a pretty good athlete growing up in high school. Played uh safety and tailback and you know once in acclad's coming through school and really was recruited on the national level. UM, a lot of a lot of major college football programs. And I guess going through that process, I uh kind of you coming from such a small school where that was really not the norm of having uh an athlete or someone gave me so much attention. I mean they were college coaches coming into watch us practice and I'd be pulled from class once or twice a week to meet with recruiting coordinator or coach, and I kinda was tailored to, you know, by the faculty, the high school faculty, to a point where you know, I kinda kind of got a little, uh uh, a little cocky, I guess you could say. And I really thought like everyone, like the world, I guess was owed me something. Um. But to make a long story short, yeah, I ended up playing Division one double A double A ball at Youngstown State. And when I went there, it was really really an eye opening experience. Um. You know, I wasn't really focused on education, I guess you could say. You know, I was there to play football and that was kind of my thing. Um, you know, I had dreams, dreams of a little from a little boys growing up and trying to make it the league. And that's kind of what my focus was on. Was was just you know, solely football. But when I went there, I kind of had a chip on my shoulder because I had been I had got recruited by all these big schools, and for one reason or another, I didn't sign or didn't have any offers at some of the you know, the major college football programs where I thought I was gonna end up. And uh so when I ended up at I Won Double A school, I felt like I was kind of above everybody on the team. Um I went in, got red shirt as a freshman. Um again, I got recruited to play safety, but I was you know, my feet weren't really all that great and you know, I didn't have the hip work. So I ended up playing linebacker. Um let it as a let it as a red shirt freshman, and then as a sophomore I was actually starting. I was, I was slated to start as a sophomore, and uh, some injuries happened through camp or whatnot, and they wanted to move me to play inside linebacker. From I was a seam player, so I was a forced forced player playing the outside. Uh and then and then nick and also in a nickel package, played nickel and nickel package. And when they wanted to move me into the inside, I just was just like, you know what, like I'm not thinking of playing the inside. I'm I'm six six, one thirty. Like, yeah, I got good speed, but this, you know, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna If I have a chance to play in the league. I'm not gonna be able to play in the inside. I'm too small, and uh, you know took to that mentality and really I just felt like, you know, the coaches are trying to screw me over that. You know, I was just really being really damned selfish. And a lot of that mindset came from Um, some of the people I was hanging hanging around him with. I felt like, you know, again, like the world owed me something I wasn't focused on, you know, sacrifice me for the team, and I was just worried about myself. And ultimately that led me to walking away, just just walked away from from the team. Um continued, you know that on the education side, but you know, with my focus being on football and not really academics, that was that was pretty short lived. And UM, you know the mentality that I had there, I can I can almost a credit that to where I am today because that was a lesson that I've learned over the last I don't know, probably ten years. Is just being meant the capacity mentally to be tough enough to go through hardships and and the trials and trimulations and struggles and knowing that you know, things won't always be perfect, but you still have to do the work every single day. Have a great attitude because somewhere in the world, no matter how bad you have it, somebody else has a worse. So you know, those lessons really have brought me. You know, I guess kind of what I deployed in my daily here at Exis. And you know, we talked about voting company culture or corporate culture. That's you know, that stems from the lessons I learned ten years ago or fifteen years ago. So um, and that wasn't an overnight process either. There was a you know, from the time that I stopped playing football, I never really wanted to have a corporate nine to five. That was never that was never my interest. So I never wanted to really go to work for anyone else. Always had an entrepreneurial mindset. And uh did the rodeo thing for a while, didn't you, Yes that I was, Yeah, that's what I was getting ready to say. So really, when I was twenty two, it didn't really want to go to work for anybody, So um, I pursued a professional rodeo career and pr c A and PBR until I was um And then you know from there, went on to uh went to work for an engineering firm that my father owned. Worked there for a few years. Um, then I left and just short stint and to tell Colm Tall Communications working with a ten team veries and with an e firm, and um, I absolutely hated like I was in I was in a cubicle and a desk job. But look at you now you get to you know, you're developing a cell camera. So like, well that's probably helped you. Huh, there's no doubt about it. Just having the background and uh, just a familiarity with uh you know how those how those companies operate, and you know that their their technology and how you know how that's that stuff actually works was a giant help, um, you know, bring that rendered project to the market. But um, yeah, just those two those short two years in that nine to five is really what kind of led me to say, hey, I got to get to hell out of here and do something for myself. And you know that's kind of what led to the start of start of Exodus. It's cool, man. So a couple of things from that story that I would make statements about I guess, um, first people people see um this ESPN perspective of college sports, and um, man, it is tough to be a college athlete. Um, it's not as glorious as it looks. Um and and I and I'll also say this that and this makes us sound like you know, some old men. But like even ten years ago playing football, what's different than it is today? Practicing every day, Like you still hit and you still went head to head and you had headaches all the time, whereas today it's a little more high stock, you know, fly around and don't hit anybody too hard in practice. And it became it started becoming that way, um, even in my latter years of playing. But um, just that like just grind of kind of that hard nose ache aching all the time, you know, and then you know, struggling to uh through injuries and through not being where you want to be in kind of thing. Um and man, you're like you're like nineteen years old, you know, like you just don't know any better than to just kind of like be selfish and be um, you know, kind of rebellious, I guess, and so like just to kind of, I guess, relate to what you're saying and to also throw that out there. I think that. Um, it's really it's really good that you have come from that and you have been molded into something different, because like you know, we're we were constantly supposed to be molded into something better. Right, every every day we're looking to be a better version of ourselves. And uh, I think that that's uh, kudos to you for doing that, you know, and despite not having despite not getting the education maybe you wanted. I also have noticed that you're you're really well spoken, um, and you're not like some dumb meat head. So that's why I like, I'm talking to you, you know what I mean, because you know that you know the dumb meat heads I'm talking about that walked around locker a right, you know I mean, And so I can appreciate that about you. And and that's that's one reason why we wanted to have you on the podcast, is give us some non meat head talk about football vibe. I appreciate the compliment. And it's funny. Um, you know when you talk about being nineteen twenty years old and making that jump from you know, high school to college and the athletic world. Um, you know, the maturity level, it's just you know, it's not for most people, it's not there. And for the guys that it is there, you know, those are the guys that are really, uh, I guess doing something special to one per centers of the of the world. But you know, coming full kind of full circle. I mean I find myself I don't watch TV. I said, you know, if I have free time at night, I'm reading books or I'm reading articles, uh, you know, on the internet and trying to educate myself inside of the marketplace that I kind of that runs my life, which is the outdoor and hunting industry. So I mean, it does come full circle, I think. Unfortunately for me, it just it just took till I was thirty years old. That's all right, that's all right, man, It's it's good that you got there. I uh, I, you know we've talked before. I don't really have the college football side of things going on, but like my story kind of parallels just academically where uh, coming out of high school, I had a lot of you know, partial and full scholarship offers. Academically, I scored thirty one on a c T. I didn't have a great g P A, but I had a really high a c T score. And had the same thing going where I felt like the world owed me a free education, you know what I mean, and UH just left and completely underachieved. Um and I didn't. I didn't have the maturity level to fit like that intellect to where I didn't try at all, you know. And and UM, I do a little preaching on the side, So uh, I preached a lesson the other day about oak trees and about how um different acorns taking different processes to get to a full, full, grown, big, beautiful oak tree. And I kind of compared my walk in my life with that of like a red oak that has to go through a stratification process to where I can't just hit the ground in German eight and grow real big like a white oak. Can. You know? I gotta go through like a cooling process or or through a little bit of trial and tribulation to get where you are. And I don't know, maybe the uh, the wood from trees like that's a little statter, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool, man. I guess that's kind of a good way to get into what we were really wanting to talk about. The deer hunting, and uh, you hunt primarily in Ohio. Correct. Yeah, that's you know, born and raised in Ohio. I have hundreds some different states, but primarily uh. Um, you know, Ohio is my my home white tail state. So and you hunt for a lot of public land these days. Um, you've told me it's challenging, but it's by choice and it's not like a necessity. Uh. Some guys, some guys like to talk about hunting public land as a necessity, and sometimes it is kind of a necessity. Um. Maybe it's also that they didn't work as hard at getting permission properties or whatever. But um, explain how you got to the point of now where you're hunting public land your focus there? Yeah, So, I guess the common thing in my life and and again this relates back to football and the trials, tribulations and struggles of failures is being in love with the process, not the end goals. So that's like my common team. Whether I'm hunting, whether I'm at work on the you know, during my daily if it's you know, I'm spending time with my family, I'm in love with the process. And if you're not in love with the process, you're gonna struggle throughout your entire life. And you're never gonna be happy. Um, so just that's kind of that's kind of the baseline for everything that I do. So you know, growing up, I grew up um in a in a hunting family, but not a family of serious hunters. You know, it was more of a tradition. The week of guns season, everyone everyone would take a few days off work, everybody hit the woods and uh, I was celebrated, which you know, that's all. That's an awesome thing. But at the at the very young age of thirteen, I guess twelve or thirteen is really when I started gun hunting. Um. You know, a family farm, my grandfather, a farm that's been in my family since my I guess my great grandfather owned so almost five continuous acres of prime whitetail habitat. I mean, um, we weren't in the food plots and things of that nature back in or the management side of things back in the mid nineties, but you know they were being large ac fields. Um, high stem count cover. There's a mature timber, just just a beautiful farm the way it laid out. So at the young age of sixteen, I was able to I killed my first buck and that dear grossed a hundred and seventy seven inches the very first year. Yeah, so the very very first year I killed, um was an absolute giant. And again I got a you know, I got a ton of attention from that. Everyone. You know, there's a big right up from the newspaper article, and you know, my family was going nuts. And uh So from that point on, I was like, this is awesome, Like I just need to replicate this every year. So I started bow hunting the following year, seventeen years old. And let me tell you, I've made every dang mistake you possibly make with a bow in your hands. I mean everything, um missing dear, I've wounded deer. Um, you know, been busted from top to bottom at every mistake you can possibly make. But over the course of the next you know, ten years from seventeen, I don't know, Um it was. It got to a point where I was hunting that farm and almost anybody coming in off the streek and go sit in a in a pinch point or you know, down wind of the dough betting orgin right and kill a good deer. It was like every year somebody was coming in and killing you know, a hundred deer Um, it was and I'm not saying that was it was easy, because it's definitely not easy, and it was never guaranteed. But as long as you did things, you know, the right way. You watched the wind, you you you spend a little time scouting, you ran some cameras, your odds were pretty good that you're gonna kill you know, a solid white tail. And I had an opportunity to go out west with my grandfather on a on an elk hunt, and that really changed the way I looked at hunting white tails, you know, in the in the Midwest. When I went to southwest Colorado and hunted in the Uncombadran National Forest, giant just huge fast track of land. Um. Anybody spend any time out has spent any time out west knows, you know, just the beauty of the landscape and the vastness, and you almost feel like you've been in areas where no other humanist really set foot on ever. You know, of course that's not the case, but that's what I feel like. You get get romantic about that idea. And uh, I found myself after an unsuccessful hunt, But nonetheless, we were out there to make memories and whatnot with my with my grandfather. So when I came back that year, UM to the white Tail Woods, I found myself sitting in that wood lot and I could hear dogs bark, and I could hear cars, and I could see the barn light come on it in the evening time. UM, and it just was like, you know, what the heck am I doing here? Like my mind kept going back to the Colorado and uh, you know, hunting those big woods, you know, adventure style hunting. So I end up having that year off with a hundred and sixty seventies typical and like the third sit, it was my third sit during the It was like November tenth or in November eleventh, and I had been in the woods for two hours. Um came in. You know, Nick made a good shot, deer went forty yards dropped, and like my season was over, and I was like, you know, there has to be something. There's gonna be something more to this than than what I'm doing here. And I, uh, I came across a short film called Pursuing the Allegheny where these three individuals, these three guys were taken this Western adventure style hunting and doing it in Pennsylvania in the Alleghany National Force. So I was kind of intrigued that, you know how they were doing that, and I was instantly fell in love with the idea. And it was like, well, how can I do that in Ohio? So I started looking at giant tracks, of the biggest public land tracks I could find. So four or five years ago, I guess it was five years ago, I started hunting a sixty acre track of big woods next to zero structure in hill country. Um, you know, very few roads, and I just fell in love with that entire process. Again, It's it was a process of going in there and doing things in such a hard manner. Not that I wanted to do something anyone else, you know, I couldn't do, or it was just about testing myself, you know, and growing personally as as a hunter. Um So I've been doing that for four or five years now. Um I've been unsuccessful. I have not killed a buck there in four years. It's kind of a running joke inside of her company and people like, how do you how do your own truck camera company? You know you can't kill a deer in your home state. Um So do you feel closer though today than you did five years? Ago. Oh my gosh, I'm after you know, going from hunting that manicured agg farm to hunting big woods public. I'm ten times a hunter then I was, you know, hunting hunting that hunting that farm. Um just boots on the ground, scouting, be able to re terrain, knowing how those deer navigate in um, such vast you know, vast pieces of land and really hunting them on their own movement. I mean there's there's nothing, there's nothing in there's next to zero influence there when you're hunting deer on their natural movements how they were, you know, a hundred years ago. So it's really cool. Do you feel like, um, you know, you said you worked the nine of five for just a little bit, right, and then you gotta just enough taste for it that you said that's not for you. Do you feel like the the private land thing is kind of the deer hunters nine to five where it's easy, it's comfortable, and you can have some success and it's okay if that's what you want to do with your life. But there's also the other side of it too. Um yeah, I think so you could you could say that. Um, I think it's probably different for everyone. Um, because after I will tell you this, after four years or five years and not filling a tag, I mean my thoughts do go back to go back and hunting hunting? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I think it's probably just it's different for for everyone. I don't think people define success in the same manner obviously, so you know, it's just personal preference, I guess. So speaking of the process, can you kind of take us through, um the process You're like, say, you're scouting process, Like what what has made you Where did you start when you first started hunting that fifty acre track? And then what is your how is your process evolved to the point of today where you said that you feel a lot like a lot better hunter, that you're a lot closer to killing one of these big public land bucks. Um, you know, what does your process look like as far as scouting getting closer to that hunting even what does that process look like? Well, it started with uh digital scouting, reading you know, uh topo maps and you know, doing a little bit of research on on forums, but uh, you know, figuring out areas that had less pressure, UM, where I could get away from people was was really the focus when I started um, and then on what I found was, you know that first that very first season, you know, that's what everyone else is doing. Everyone else is reading topographical maps, start looking for saddles and benches and those major train features where it would pinch down pinch down deer. And regardless of how far it was from the road, almost everyone in that area and anyone that goes to that area in hunts In, Ohio is willing to put into work. So I actually was doing myself at disservice by looking at those major um, those major saddles and benches and draws and drainages, because that's where everyone else is going there. So after a year of running Canra's there Um, I quickly realized that the bigger deer that that we had on camera and we were running again. We had just started this company and we were running at that time, we probably had fifty the cameras there um, and I'm gonna say there's we've probably focused on four or five acres out of that. Out of that, and quickly realized like those deer in those in those big woods have way longer, way longer of movements, so their bed to food pattern was a lot longer. Um, it was a little more sporadic because they could bed and feed anywhere. Um. So, after running, you know, running fifty cameras for that year, we noticed there was a there was a pattern that would happen. Certain deer would hold up in areas for three or four days, whether that was based on food, or whether that was based on betting due to extreme weather, or even around the rut. So the following year we were able to use that data, that annual the annual trail camera data, and actually put ourselves in position, um, you know, to get on some deer which you know, pay mistakenly saying, um that you know, I'm running all those cameras you get Really I was. I guess I've had a bad habit of getting romantic about killing really big deer. Like it's been it. It's been like that since I've been sixteen. And unfortunately, that second year I was there, I let some deer walk that I probably shouldn't have let walk. Like what kind of dear explained for the listener what that might look like, Uh, like a four year old one thirty like just a nice I mean, a great a great public land deer, A great deer anywhere, regardless of public, private, whatever. Um, I let two deer walk that year, that two separate deer that I probably should have let an arrow fly. But you know, hindsight, you know, I thought I was you know, I've had the confidence in myself that I was gonna be able to put myself on a bigger deer and just was never the case. And actually I spent three consecutives, three consecutive years, they're hunting a single deer in sixty acres, which is which is pretty I'm and that's it's damn near impossible. It was. It was. It was tough. But at the same time, the guy I was hunting with was doing the same thing and he was able to capitalize that. So three years in a row he hunted a hundred sixty typical nine point and that third year he shot that deer, which we actually actually filmed that hunt. Um shot him five feet from the base of his tree. Is incredible, CALLI that's awesome, dude. So UM, So, as far as we'll get into some of these details, UM, but I feel like that I guess, first of all, it's to me, we could you set up kind of like what the area looks like you've maybe talked about it, but like, so it's it's kind of hill country. I guess, um, what kind of trees? Um? Is it rocky? Is it what sandy? You know? How does all that look? Yeah? And with that, can you explain what hill country is for y'all, because we have a region in Texas that's hill country that I don't think it's anything like what you're talking about, right right, Okay? Yeah, UM, So when I describe hill country, it's a lot like UM, it's really the foothills of the Appalachians, you know that run through um much of the I guess the east side of the east side of the part of the country. Um. Elevation change anywhere from a four hundred six feet UM. Very steep hills. UM. You know, I say, Steve, it's they're almost they're hard. I mean it's it's tough to walk that. You've got to be in pretty decent shape. So like a one on one slow for forty five degrees is not, um, not not uncommon. They're very short ridges. So you know, if you and p for people who are maybe listening from like West Virginia or Kentucky or even New York, Pennsylvania hill country and mountainous regions there have. You know, they can get on the ridge and walk for a mile or two sometimes, And in southern Ohio it's that's just not the case. You know, you might have a a ridge that's you know, five or six feet and that's it. UM, so very very rugged train UM. As far as soil conditions, it is a little bit rocky, UM, but there's not there's not like a bunch of like rocky outcrops or like sheer sheer bluffs or anything of that nature. UM. And for the most part, a lot of it's open open hardwoods so UM. Not not a lot of pine growth. UM. Now there are areas of of timber management, but the state actually um, the state manages so there's a lot of a lot of clear cuts with like super really high high stem count with UM. You know, a lot of that that regrowth. So that's that's kinda and again that's it's sixty acres, that's I know, that's kind of kind of broad. I mean, if you break it down into thousand acre chunks, every thousand acres is a little bit different. But super super super super rugged UM. Details short ridges and open hardwoods. So it's like what kind of what kind of hardwoods oaks? Oaks, hickories, um, maple trees, um. But yeah, a lot of a lot of kind of white oaks, UM, some reds. So in that situation when you've got a ton of white oaks and we run into this problem a lot here, we've we've got pretty much red oaks a lot of time where we hunt and we're still looking for the wide oak tree, and a lot of areas that we hunt there why we're like right on the right on the line current like where we where we hunt private and public a lot and then if you go east of here just I mean sixty miles, you're gonna be in wide oak country pretty much. Um. So uh yeah. But but my point is we hunt, we have a lot of we'll have like one of our more preferred oaks as a red oak called the Schumart oak, in a lot of areas we hunt. Um. And so like you can go to a certain property public or private and not have any shoe MARDs, and then you can go to a certain are place that has tons of shoe MARDs on it, and so um if it doesn't but it if it doesn't have shumards on it, it'll be probably like um, smaller post stoke acorns or um, we have you know, these willow and swamp oaks that have these real small, uh really red orange acrons that fall I mean in hoards. And so like my one thing that we have kind of struggled with is like, how do you key in on I mean, obviously it's a food source in their their hammering them, but how do you key in in a big wood situation, which is kind of what we encounter on a certain I mean, do you have to just get lucky and say, well, I mean I know there there are things, but what are the things that you key in on to find? Well, that's the wide oak tree today, you know or this year or whatever. Right, Well, I think when there's a large mass crop, Um, it's really hard because those deer in big woods can pretty much go anywhere and be on a food source, or you know, they can bed anywhere and be relatively close to a food source, so they may not be moving as much, um, you know, during daylight hours. So in the early season on those with those white oaks, it's really really tough. Um. We try to use this historical data, uh, and relate to historical bedding and get on those get on those white oak flats that are relatively you know, within a hundred fifty two yards of early season betting, which is typically it's even though it is wind related. A lot of times we find is those deer will be on on those north slopes early in the season, um, you know, on that upper one third, still trying need to to use you know, the wind, use that thermal and wind tunnel to their advantage on that upper one third, but a lot of times around the northern side on those points, um, on those short ridges in the early season, in the in the late season. I actually which in the big woods for us, it's a lot easier to find those food sources in the late season because they're just um, there's just a lot less of them in that area. So we'll find chinker pins um in a late season and you can almost almost guarantee if it's dropping dropping acorns, um, you know, deer will hole up there for three or four days. And it's just a matter of being able to time that um you know, every year to be able to kind of move in there and have an opportunity which again historically is uh, you know, coming from true camber data. But the one thing I would note is, you know, when guys are out in the in the season scouting, um, take your binoculars and and look for that stuff. Yeah. I think that's something that's a lost art. And in today's world, everyone's so worried about sitting over in aggfield or a fancy food plot. Um. I think some of that stuff is some of that stuff's lost. So yeah, so you you just talked about the early in late season. Can you tell me like where the line of delineation is between those two and like what months that is for you? Yeah, I mean the early season for us is anything prior to well what I consider I mean everybody probably their own take on this, but prior to like October one, really before that kind of pre rut where you know you're really starting to see scrapes and stuff open up. Um. And then I would say after, um, after the weekend of Thanksgiving, so really after we call it December one, you know, moving all the way to the end of the season is where we start to focus on those late season food sources. Yeah, I got you. So you're kind of just talking about Um, the times when test astone is affecting the deer last pretty much is what you're like early season, in late season, and then most of November and then a little bit of the outside of the bill curved. There is kind of the rut where it falls outside of those Uh. So you touched on something pretty cool there. And there's like Tyler and I like to talk about this other lot. Uh there's this like food plot movement that's been going on since probably the nineties, right, and this whole like, uh, romanticizing the idea of um, well cultivated food plots and how great they are for for you know, all wildlife and this and that and that very well may be true, but there's something about the fact that these animals did just fine without the food plots for thousands of years. Right. And you you touched on something huge with the binoculars and looking at the acrons and stuff, and I think there's I'm I'm an oak nut. As of the last year, I really have been not an acorn, but you know, an ok nut, Like I've really got into it, man. And there's like when you start looking at things, people like to say that, you know, well, acron's only encompassed just a little part of a deer's diet, you know, like, oh, they're not there for very long. That's not really true. You've got trees that dropping acorns from September to almost February and some parts of the country, but you know, from from September to at least December. Um, that's the whole fall. That's when we're hunting. So why not concentrate on that? And have you found that you can pattern deer off of which specie of oak tree is putting off that month of that week? Well, I don't. I don't know if I've we've looked at it on that deep of a level. Um, I'll just to be totally honest, I'm not super good with super good with my subspecies. UM, you know. I I do know a few a few salt tooth, a few different white oaks and a few different red oaks. Um. But to break it down by the week now, I mean, I wish, I wish I had that capabilities, and maybe that's something um I should probably should probably work on, especially if you know my focus being on the big woods. But no, I I've never I've never had the ability or the mindset to to do that. I guess you were. You were speaking about this earlier and um, and you hear a lot about this, I guess in the media. But um, in in that hill country that you hunt, are you and I think you are, But are you using elevation to steer winds in different directions or are you trying to find areas to hunt that are like the wind is a pretty consistent direction as to what the weather man says. Yeah, the wind is, uh, you know, that's the That was the biggest learning curve UM for me coming from Flat Iron to hill country is understanding the wind and thermos because regardless in that area, regardless of what the weather man says, the wind is never going to at least from what I found, the wind is never going to be accurate with with with the with the one direction on four on the weather forecast. Um. The ridges there are just they're too steep and they're too short. Um. So you can look at your weather app on your phone and it could be calm for a west wind and you get to your spot and that wind might be coming from the northeast because the winds wrapping around a point. UM. So for us, I almost create like a So I use on X maps a lot, so I have pins dropped in different areas of interest, I guess and really I don't know what the wind is going to do until I get in there and drop some milk weeds see exactly. You know what it's how it's you know how the thermals are affecting it um, How you know the different points and ridges or saddles are affecting it um. And that's a big part of really understanding that. It's a big part of how you access. How I've been accessing a lot of those STAM locations is because you can cheat the wind if you understand what it's doing UM and use those train features UM and have your wind or scent blow into areas where you know dear or think dear are not gonna be. So it not only plays a big part in you're actually the actual stand time, but it plays a big part in in access and entry and exit. So, do you have a like a setup that you like to go with consistently that you see the wind behave? You know, like you can go look at a topo and say, I think the wind's gonna behave like this here, and that sets up well for the style that I hunt or whatever. UM, I don't know that there's a I don't know that there's UM like a cookie cutter answer to that. What I can say is that understanding thermals UM and knowing when you can hunt bottoms and when you need to be up on the up on the tops, when you're in your sense going to drop when it's gonna be rising. UM. On those days where it's like you have next to zero wind so it's super super calm, maybe the high pressure day like bluebird day, I do like to get in those bottoms where you know your thermals you're gonna have that lift and things are gonna just gonna you know, everything, everything's gonna be shooting straight up. Now. On top of that, if you if you can get into an area where there's moving water, that can be a huge, huge advantage, not only to use you know, to suck your thermals and watch your thermals and send you know, follow that that stream of water, that flowing water, but also as a barrier depending on you know, how fast that water is moving, where how deep it is. UM. It's almost like having a like a barricade UM. You know, on on one side of your set. Yeah. Yeah, So can you explain that, like how the moving likewise important important that the water is moving well, yeah, that you know, the faster the water is moving. Typically if if the water is moving, it's going to carry carry your sent in that direction, there's gonna be an air current over top of that water. So you have flowing water, and then there's actually an air current on top of that that's actually flowing in the same direction of the water. The cold of the water the better because that's it's gonna have a harder suck, and it's gonna pull your thermals uh, pull your pull your sand even faster down close to that water, and then it's gonna carry everything away in the direction. Cool. That's cool. So and then also that that uh water speed, I guess could uh deter an animal from trying to swim across or walk across that exactly. Yeah. Cool, So I guess I should have asked this earlier. But are there, like, is there like a key factor or two that you like to key in on, uh when you hunt? You know, some guys like rubs, some guys I love scrapes. Some guys like the rut because it's unpredictable and you never know if a giant's gonna walk by you. Is there some kind of factor that you really look for when you're out there uh scouting? Yeah? I do. Like Uh, I love primary scrapes, so big community scrapes that are there all year round and that are in relation to heavy cover um. Because in the areas that we hunted, deer density is super super low. I mean it's I don't I think we've talked about that at the A T A Show when we first chatted, but maybe one one one one point three one point for deer for square miles. I mean, there's not a lot of deer um. And what we find is those deer will hit scrapes in daylight, but that typically primary scrapes close to bedding that's in relation to cover um. And we've seen that year every year, every year with you know, the amount of cameras that we run. So those all the areas that we do like to focus on um and then also secondary train features and what I mean my second area is, you know, going back to reading topographical maps, everybody wants to get in those big pinches and those big deep saddles or those real nice benches that you know that are really easily seen from from from a top of map. But when you go in there and walk some of those areas, I've found secondary trails, um maybe a little bit lower on that bench, or a little bit higher on that bench, or a saddle that's maybe not not as defined. Uh, and then hanging cameras in those areas, and we actually have more pictures of bigger deer using those secondary train features than those um, you know, the those primary train features. And I think that is related to just having a bad experience over you know that there is four or five years old. At some point he's used those major train features and had some kind of negative encounter, whether that's with a predator or human or whatever. So those are really the two big things that I look for. Yeah, I'm uh, it's funny that you're talking about this a few times and you've alluded to it several times. That's it's something that we I think did a pretty good job of this year as opposed to last year two. Is uh, Like you know, if we you know, as we're learning some of these properties, are these lands, these public lands here in Texas, will um you know especially if it's a newer property, will will in the In the first couple of years we started doing this together, we would um be like, oh, look you can see that. Uh there's two different types of trees and that kind of makes a funnel right there. Whatever. And we'd go in there for a morning hunt and the sun would come up and there'd be, um, two stands and then a set of you know, spikes put into another tree or something like that, and we're like, dad, gum, and everybody's hunting. Everybody's seen this, you know. And and I think this year we did a lot better. We had a um, we we hunted an area actually that was Casey had found through some boot scout, and that was a really great funnel. Unfortunately, um, there was some hunter pressure in there that kind of knocked the whole game in a different direction in November. But in October our cameras were just lit up, you know. So I think that's a really good point that you make there, is is that uh, you know, as many you know, and I hate to say this, but as many cell cams as you have, you still got to get out there in boot scant scout, you know, and and uh, because things things change year to year, and you can't see everything, uh through the through a camera or through a you know a map, an aerial or topo. It's a good point, man, Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. The thing the thing was, you know, public is there's so many there's so many variables. I mean, you can get data from a camera, but unless you're asking yourself when wearing why that deer is actually there? Um? And sometimes you don't have all those answers. If you're not able to run a vast number of cameras, you've only run three or four cameras, sometimes you can't answer all those questions. So uh, that data can be misleading UM as far as why you know certain deer were in a certain area or at what time of the year. Um. And you know, get trying to eliminate those those variables, trying to eliminate human pressure or um all of you know, anything you can't that's outside of your control. Trying to eliminate that stuff only leads to your success. So, as you said, the boots on the ground scouting in real time, like, there's no there is no substitute for that. H. People I think get consumed with running cameras and getting pictures of deer um, which is great, but that should be indition in addition to putting the work in on the ground and and being able to read that sign in real time for yourself. Yeah, I kind of I want to move in the same direction with that. But before we get too far from the community scrape thing, can you kind of define what the size of and what a community scrape looks like? Because we, uh, we have smaller deers down here, so I don't know a lot of our scrapes are, you know, like some of them look better than others, but none of them are really I haven't noticed that they're much bigger a lot of times around here, you know than another one. Is Is it typically a community scrape a larger diameter? Um? Yeah, I mean most of what we see, uh, generally speaking, most of those community scrapes will be at least two and a half three feet in diameter. I guess all of them will have a a really hard work looking branch um, you know, overhanging, and they're used just about I mean mostly mostly worked for twelve months out of the year, so not just um, not just revolving around the rut or pre rut, but those deer um typically use those in correlation to betting seven so um and not only by you know, not always why mature DearS. Sometimes they're they're younger DearS. A lot of times those are hitting those so um. It's just a I guess communication focal point um in correlation betting and and UH and cover during like the off months, and I guess that's what you call I could say in May or New Year actually scraping or they just work in the looking branch. Most of the time, they're just working on looking branch. Yeah, and so you can see if they've worked that liking branch, I mean, does it still does it look like a dead branch? Or sometimes can you see like new parts that have been you know, I guess browsed or or chewed on or you know, however they might break it off. Can you see that new break or is it you just have to assume that this is a community scrape of uh. I found this in the fall um because it was open. But they're still using it. But they're just rubbing glands on it or something or is there actually visual evidence to that? Yeah, the visual evidence is is there's a lot less um because you know, most of the time the ground is not being being worked up as much. Um. But we're proving that with with cameras. You know, we see a large scrape like that coming across it in correlation of betting, and we put a camera there, so and then we have you know, a photo or video evidence of those deer coming in and using that twelve months of the years. So that's mostly where that comes from. How far from betting are you lacking? Those two be uh typically within fifty two hundred yards, so something where a deer is gonna get up out of his bed and move there in daylight in transition before he goes to his primary food source or staging area um at you know, in the evening hours, so yeards typically cool. So how how right now in February, um here coming up before the deer shed, um, how are you using this cameras to collect data that you can use to kill a buck next year? Um? Right here in February in the postseason. Well, I think the biggest thing right now in the postseason, um is you know, just getting data on what deer have made it through the season and what kind of shaped there in um So like through this past year. Um, you know, there are several deer on on my heaitlisted and Jake, I guess we've talked about several deer in our podcast and kind of the story of them either making it or not making it through the season, and now this is just confirming, Hey, this deer is still alive. Let's, you know, let's go back and really dive into the data that we've gathered from him for the year and and build on that. And there's again there's no guarantees. It's only February that that deer could that deer could live for two more monthsy by car and be done. But at least at this point you can say, hey, this dear has made it. You know, let's let's let's have another go around with them for next year. I got you. So that's that's more important than um then actually finding something that they're doing or an area that you're they're using right now. I guess, uh yeah, I mean what we find in the big woods, this deer hole up for you know, a few days, and their movements are so sporadic that now you can focus like on late season food sources. But that may change, that may change for next year. So um, you know the trail camera data on the trail camera into things. That's really the only thing that we're doing using cameras for this time of year. That and you know see when when they're actually shedding. Um. But then going in and boots on the ground, if you're doing some postseason scouting now you can look at habitat change or maybe other outside influences that may you know, shift or move those deer out of that out of those areas, or you know access at different access routes, or maybe there's no pressure added things of that nature. But as far as the on the camera, and it's really just a no which deer have made it made it through and when they're shedding. So kind of speaking of that, you know during the season, um, I guess relate this, relate this to season scouting. But you know, hunter pressure during the season can affect um, you know, can essentially move a buck. We saw it this year, move what you would call a target buck for that area out completely. And then you've got forestry and several other factories that can cause dear to just move out of an area. So make a case for me, why are running cameras on public is a good idea and then further tell me how like actual hunting season info can help us out ten or twelve months later during the next season. Well, the biggest thing with running cameras on public um is historical data. Um, you know, and I'm one of I'm speaking of I guess truational SD card cameras. It is it is so scary that and and this is some people might find this hard to believe, but we've run a large number between fifteen hundred cameras on public land for four or five years and keeping tabs on specific deer, trying not specific deer. Uh. You know, on a sixty thousand acre track, we have seen year over year that deer will hold up in the same areas a year later plus or minus you know, three days or four or three days after. And that might not always be on the same exact you know, on the same exact camera, but he might be a hundred the artist on the ridge or um maybe on the on the next even the next ridge over. But um, and that's with all things being equal. So that's you know, as you mentioned habitat um. You know, other outside influences as you know, hunter intrusion or hunter, pressure, um, forestry, forestry management, all that remaining the same. It's scary how consistent these they are doing the same things year every year. And as you run AMers for multiple years and those deer actually become a little bit older, the pattern even becomes more defined. Um. As those deer get older, now they're typically they're a lot smarter and a lot wiser, a lot more weary, and a lot of times harder to kill. But the pattern itself actually becomes more defined um as you create those data logs over over multiple years. Cool. So, so what about the person who doesn't like the idea of hunting a specific deer. Um they not that they don't want to kill a big buck, but that they would rather see more dear or something like that, as opposed to I'm gonna hunt this specific jay hook trail that goes into this bed on this buck. You know, what what should they look for in a spot? And um, you know, are there those spots that you can just kind of go, well, that's a spot that dear, knowing what I know about animals and when I know about white tails and specific that there's going to be deer there and quite possibly bucks are going to use that trail. I mean, is that a rut situation mainly? I think if in the big woods, probably if guys are you know, if if they're the type of guys that like to see a lot of deer, UM, I would say that's gonna probably revolve around the rut. And for me that would be you know, food sources and related to dough betting and some type of pinch point in between. UM is kind of what I would focus you know, put my focus on UM and then on a strategy end. You know, you know, a lot of the stuff that we speak about. We understand guys are gonna in fifty cameras or hunting cameras. That's you know, there aren't a whole lot of people in the world they are going to do that. But if you have four or five cameras even and you're running them on public um, there's a there's a great opportunity there to cast a broad net. And what I mean by that is placing one camera on a primary food source and get start to gathering data on maybe not a specific dear, but in general, and then being able to almost like a fisherman casting net, you know, out into the water and just scoop up fish that you're basically doing the same thing with cameras, creating me radius with you know, three or four cameras and then kind of leap frogging them, um, camera over camera to kind of put yourself in a position where, okay, maybe you're getting a deer close to daylight, um, where you maybe may have an opportunity to go in and and and make a move. So you're so you're saying, if you have three cameras and you've got them in a line on a trail or you know, and I guess you could say, on the line, but in some sort of fashion in a certain direction towards food source, that as you pick a deer up on one camera coming from a certain direction from from your other camera, you can just take that and leap frog the the later the camera that picks him up the latest in the evening, and move it back on the other side of the camera until you find him which trailer is coming from to the to the other camera. I guess that's not confusing enough, So just keep leak frogging it back until you find these deer and work all the way. You know, do you work all the way to his bed. Uh No, I wouldn't say, you want to work all the way to this bed. I guess the easiest way to explain it is, it's it's a lot like you know, you hear about old timers cutting tracks and backtracking geer, like backtracking them into their beds, where guys going out and cutting fresh tracks and snow and and really trying to locate figure out how those deer and moving are navigating. Essentially, you're doing the same things, but you're doing with cameras. Now, what I would say is, um, I typically would leave the camera that's on the primary food source where you know you're getting pictures of him. I would leave that camera there just to make sure that their deers, you know, still alive in that scenario, that he's still frequenting, and then use those, um the second tier cameras to kind of leap frog, um you know, camera over camera to to get him close to daylight. Um. I wouldn't. We don't like to put a lot of pressure on beds. It's just you know, you spend so much time out of the year working and trying to put yourself in a position to put yourself on an animal it's so easy to mess it up and bump a deer and then having to go find him as a giant pain in the butt. And we've I've been there, We've done that. Um. So my my thought is to be a little more conservative. And then when you're getting that deer, if you have a couple of pictures of him that are close to daylight or close to shooting hours, just wait for the weather and wait for those, um, wait for you know, a tempt drop or a big change in wind speed or anything like that. Um, that may get him on his feet just a little bit sooner, um and then and then make your move. Yeah. So, um, you know we're pretty close here in Texas, it's different. A lot of people are talking, you know when you see all these posts about people like are they dropping around you yet? And I'm like, oh, they are not dropping here, but in other places, especially with this cold weather, I'm sure deer starting to drop. How are you, um, you know, able to use cameras two decide what time is the most effective time to go pick sheds before green up? All right now, um, right now we're using we're using cell cams on on food sources and just monitoring. Um, you know, when at least fifty or sixty of those deer have dropped. I mean there's deer have deer have been dropping here for a couple of weeks now, whether that's due to the photo period or you know, the added stress of season, predators, hunting pressure, maybe they've been injured, you know, all that. The stress levels do play a part of how really they shed, uh, you know, on top of the photo period. But yeah, right now, I'm just using cell cameras in those primary food areas. Um. And then we're so damn busy, Like we're going to go out and you know, hike miles and miles and miles every weekend. Pick one or two sheds up. We're gonna wait to the majority of those deer have dropped, and then we'll make you know, two weekends we'll go walk and I will admit I'm probably the world's worst dude. I don't know, I might give you a run for your money. It's I mean, I'm lucky if I picked two or three up here, Like, it's it's pretty bad. Well, that's cool. So we're in the same boat there. Casey's like literally Mr Eagle Eye, like he could probably smell well, I think I'm not sure. I've got a big nose. I think it helps. Yeah, So so what's what's the tip? Well, what's the what's your strategy? Man? Just keep your eyes on the ground or what. Yeah, I don't pay enough attention to like the live dear I'm looking for. I don't know, man, I just have been lucky this past season. I mean we'd be you know, in a pretty hot you know, he's in front of me a lot too, because he's a good navigator. Uh. I think he's got like a photogenic or photo graphic memory. And so I don't know that this is just my this is my observation. And so I think that like, because I don't notice, we'll be walking through like what you would consider the big woods, lots of greenbrier and stuff, where like you could go through this patch of greenbrier, you go go through that patch of greenbrier. It doesn't really matter. You're gonna get eaten up, you know. And um, and he'll go, I just know like we're going to stand locations. He'll we'll literally walk the exact same path over and over again. And so I kind of, uh just tip typically he like walked. When we're walking together to stand to video hunt. I mean, he'll he'll lead, and so I think that's one thing. But he is like hyper aware at all times. I will say, like he just he can literally like I can't tell you how many times he'll be like, look that rub over there and it's like sixty yards through the high stem count, you know, and I'm like, dude, I ain't seeing it, man, And we'll walk and I won't say anything, you know, I'll be yeah, yeah, you know whatever. And then finally, like we've been walking for like of teen seconds, you know, and then and then there it is like twenty yards off and I'm like, holy smokes, dude. And so and then as soon as I like finally find that the rub and I'm keying in on that, He's like, oh, look at the shed over here, you know, And I'm like I'm just behind the whole time. So it's all about smoking mirrors, man, Just distract Tyler that way I can actually find the ships. That's you found some big ones this year. Yeah, that's funny. So are you guys, is that in areas of like high thermal cover or is that like food sources and brows areas or what. Well, if you talk well, if you talk about like Texas where we're hunting, you know, the eastern half of Texas, I can't tell you that there's a great um correlation to anything. The only thing I could tell you thick, Yeah, just it's gonna be a thick area, um and usually near bedding, but not like in bedding, like for instance, um, a place that I found a decent amount of ships that's kind of strange is uh, kind of some old regrowth from old pastures that's now just a huge thicket of uh like cedar elms and winged elms that are all you know, Brow's line. And I think what that is. It's just that's the time of year that deer going in there and eating those buds on those elm trees, and it's just a huge food source and that's why they're dropping in there. That's the only correlation I can really tell you for around here. And well I found sheds on fence crossings a few times too, But otherwise you know, that's about That's about it. And I'm by no means do we find a bunch of sheds, you know, It's just we're kind of like you, I don't think our dewdnities are quite as low. But on public they're they're not very high. You know, We've got these little pockets of deer and usually it's around golf courses, you know. But but but you know in in the in the country, you know, on public land and stuff, it's pretty low dentities. And you know how he is trying to find ships on low dnsity stuff. You know what are y'all key on for shids? I mean, we try to focus like a hill country, we try to focus on the southeast facing slopes. Yeah. Typically that's where you know, they're trying to gain that that the thermal heat from the sun or whether it's posed to the sun for the longest periods of time. Um, So we try to focus our efforts in areas like that and stuff that has you know, like you said, high stem count for high thermal cover and brows areas. But I don't know, maybe we're just we're just terrible at it. We just don't have very much luck. I don't know, man, Honestly, like any time Tyler and I have gone shed hunting in Texas, we don't find much. It's just it's it's just a boots on the ground situation. So what we do to have the most success, uh, kind of just postseason and really this is just all around hunting is just hit the woods um with backpacks and some water and some snacks and some trail cameras and just scout and you'll find a few sheds up one day. The next day you'll find a good place to put some cameras, or the next time you'll find like a good spot to hang stands in November. You know, you just can't when I think whenever you hunt terrain like ours, that isn't the stereotypical bed to feed good agg field high deer densities. You can't go out there with these really specific um goals, you know. You have to you have to hit the woods with an open mind and take what the woods give you. And maybe maybe I'm approaching that wrong. I don't know, but I just feel like if you're gonna try to have some success and find something good, you gotta have your eyes open to the good stuff all the time. You can't just be looking for buck beds all the time, you know what I mean. That's a great point, man, No, I couldn't agree with that more. Um, and we've kind of learned that lesson over the you know, four or five years is you know, there would be days we would go in and say, hey, we're only gonna go in and look for bedding, and then you get caught in these wormholes and um, you know, you might be focusing on travel corridors or you know, you might find something down in the bottom me of interesting and at the end of the you're like, oh, I thought we were supposed to look for for buck business. It feels like you've lost. But in reality, you know, as you said, if you have no mind and just take what's take what the woods gives you, uh, you're you know, you're a lot more successful and you feel, you know, you feel like you've actually accomplished something at the new day. So that's that's an awesome point. Yeah, that thing of accomplishment doesn't come very often on public land age, you know, so when you get it, it's not yeah. Yeah, So do you see yourself going out of state anytime soon to hunt public or you like, I'm gonna I'm gonna kill a deer here and I'm going back to some cornfields, I know, how Yeah. I mean, uh yeah, we as far as you know, company wise, um, we have such set aside some time to do a little more hunting this year. It's hard for us because we're you know, we are a small company. There's five of us here, and uh, you know, my my work ethic and my mentality on things is you know, first work we've done, and you gotta do it. And regardless of you know what what you want to do, like you got to take care of the business. That that's the baby, that's the speed your family. Um. So a lot of times, you know, I don't spend enough time um in the woods doing those those types of things. So yeah, I definitely have have some things canceled in for the year. Um, gonna hunt turkeys in Ohio public Land Cole and then uh you know when your seasons around, um thinking about possibly Kansas, maybe Nebraska, um, and then I'd like to get down to down to Kentucky um and do some things. Oh yeah, do some things across We saw a deer all over the place whenever we were headed up for a TA this year, Like we crossed the line into Kentucky and it's like do do do everywhere? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, there's some great pieces of there's some great pieces of public UM. Two years ago I sent some time and not in the in the Daniel Boone UM National Force, which is in the Eastern I guess the northern Eastern for the state UM, and it's just just the terrain. Super cool. UM. So yeah, I definitely want to get down there. Cool day. Well it sounds good. So what's the best place for people to to find out more about the render camera and whatever else you got going on? Yeah? UM, everything that we have going on you can you can learn about on website Exodus, outdoor gear dot com, UM, Excedus truck cameras on Instagram and Facebook UM. And then uh, there's lots of lots of beneficial informative blog articles on the website UM to talk about you know, we talked about we do we do our best to educate people on on trail cameras and not you know, the things that we do, they're not always hard selling. UM. There's these devices, there's so much, there's so much marketings are going to talk across the industry and how these things are sold to people. A lot of people are buying products that they don't understand how they're built. So are you know that's kind of our focus, XES is just you know, trying to educate people regardless of what cameram or what company they decided to support. Right right, that's awesome man. Well we'll link to that in the show notes here, so if you're interested, to make sure you go check out the show notes here below and uh find those links. Be easy for you. Chat. I appreciate the knowledge, man, and just the uh the camaraderie that we kind of share around hunting bigwood situations. Man, it's uh, we kind of we we share the same struggle, man, and it's real. I love it, man, I love it. I love what you guys are doing love. I don't know that's it almost feels like there's like two or three old I don't know, kindred kindred spirits like coming together whenever with Chat and we've only talked a few times. But I love love you guys attitude and your work ethic and how you guys are doing things. Thanks brother, Back at you, man, and I'm sure we'll be talking more throughout the spring. I hope you hope you find a big shed man. All right, We'll see chat all right. See, well, like you kind of said in the intro, I think Chad is like a super relatable guy. Like not everybody's going out and getting it done every year. I Mean, we put a lot of time in this year. I felt like we have learned a lot over the last couple of years. And um, you know, we had we did have some public land encounters that kind of didn't go our way that we're in bow range, you know. Uh, but you know, here in our home state, it really wasn't a whole lot of encounters that were within bow range. I mean there was a couple maybe, and luckily one was a spike that you got to shoot, you know. And so, um, I think that's that. Like I can relate to Chad personally. I'm sure a lot of the listeners can too. I mean, especially if you're that guy that gets one week of a k you know what I mean. So, uh, it's it doesn't always have it for you. So don't be discouraged. You know. Let let these stories, um and the of these guys that we have on lift you up and and let you know that like, um, it's that's the process, right, Like it's it's the process you gotta fall in love with and and knowing that you're getting better every day and that you're gonna eventually have that encounter. It just may take a little more time, another year or two, you know, and do what makes you happy. If sitting over a corn feeder doesn't make you happy, even though you might have a chance to shoot a big deer, don't, don't do that, you know. But if you want to do that, do it. Yeah, And that's I think that's the thing, man is people let um media outlets outdoor TV define what they think makes them happy and instead go out and do what's fun for you. Yeah. Oh, that's the way it should be, man. I mean, you're you're going out and spend your hard earned money that you have worked you know, fifty one weeks for fifty weeks for you know, and go do what you like. Don't don't worry about what everybody else is telling you to do. So um, I would say, as we wrap this up, if you guys want to, if you haven't yet, if you want to give us a review on iTunes, that is super helpful for us. We can use all the help we can get. We're starting to get kicked back into the into the whitetail deer thing here. It's taken us a while. We've uh we've been since Christmas. We've kind of been uh just wanting to enjoy family. Um, you've been wanting to work very hard. And so anyway, we um, we're starting to get back into this stuff. Hopefully you kind of find this stuff helpful. We've got more White Till podcasts on the way and UM yeah, I mean, like cetera review would be super helpful for us to keep exposing these guys that are just normal guys, everyday blue collar type type of guys like us. UM and like I said, don't forget if you, um are interested in any of the camera stuff. Um, Exodus has a lot of good info on just camera stuff, you know. That's all, like he said, that's all. That's what they try to do is help people out and help them understand cameras better and the technology that goes around it. Uh. They want things to be user friendly, So go check them out the websites uh here in in the links down below the descriptions. So anything else case see, don't kill a deer, dude, I'm gonna do it. Man, all right, man, Well, y'all. Y'all have a great week, Stay warm, God bless and enjoy the outdoors. Remember this is your element. Live in m

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